260: Goodbye, BioWare: An End Once and For All?

0:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Commander Shepherd, and this is my favorite lorecast on the Citadel. [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to the Mass Effect Lorecast. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm in seven the legend. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm Genesis. [SPEAKER_01]: Join us. [SPEAKER_04]: As we explore along tides of light. [SPEAKER_04]: And through shows of dust.

0:30 [SPEAKER_04]: To see where this lore began. [SPEAKER_01]: And consider where it may go. [SPEAKER_04]: Specters, welcome back to a solemn episode of the Mass Effect lore cast as we did farewell to our favorite game studio by aware. [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm not going to try and sugarcoat it and come up with some superfluous adjectives for this week because this [SPEAKER_02]: Genesis, how are you?

1:26 [SPEAKER_04]: You're not, you're not going to say good after that. [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I'm not. [SPEAKER_01]: And the news when it, when it got to me, uh, [SPEAKER_01]: it felt like one of those celebrity deaths that hit you hard. [SPEAKER_01]: You don't know the person, but you know their work and you love it and you appreciate it.

1:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And so you have to kind of sit with this feeling of losing something that was never really yours. [SPEAKER_01]: But knowing that there are hundreds of thousands, millions of other people going through the same thing with you. [SPEAKER_01]: So there was a little bit of like this collective gas of like, oh my god.

2:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And it just, it hits. [SPEAKER_01]: So no, it's not a good week. [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's rough. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: You know, why don't we just first of all, why don't we go back and kind of talk about our first experiences with BioWare, with BioWare games? [SPEAKER_04]: for me, it was Mass Effect 1.

2:42 [SPEAKER_04]: I never played Knights of the Old Republic. [SPEAKER_04]: Didn't really even know about it. [SPEAKER_04]: So 2007, Mass Effect 1, my brother picked me up Mass Effect 1 from GameStop. [SPEAKER_04]: He came home, came down to the basement where my room was at the time. [SPEAKER_04]: And he slid the game across the coffee table and said, Hey, I saw this thought you'd be into it.

3:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Looks like kind of a space thing. [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, as I'm into space and, you know, astronauts and sci-fi and stuff. [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, yeah, like I played at that night, I remember getting to be a specter and hoping, just hoping I'm like, please give me the ship. [SPEAKER_04]: Let me have my own ship.

3:30 [SPEAKER_04]: And I can go anywhere I want, and sure enough, that's what happens. [SPEAKER_04]: Right. [SPEAKER_04]: And I was just lost in it. [SPEAKER_04]: I played it like all night. [SPEAKER_04]: I, you know, I was like, you mean I can go to like, you know, this planet and this planet. [SPEAKER_04]: And it was like the best escape ever, you know, and I just I can't.

4:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Like I'm smiling because I'm thinking about those memories right now, and it actually makes me want to cry too, but I'll never forget the way that Mass Effect one made me feel, too, when I finished it, and you get back to the main screen, right, and visual starts playing, and you just sit there, and you're like, well, [SPEAKER_04]: I want more.

4:33 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's kind of brings me to my ultimate point, which is we're always going to want more. [SPEAKER_04]: We're always going to want more by aware. [SPEAKER_04]: We're always going to want more mass effect. [SPEAKER_04]: And so, you know, by aware was nothing less forever, but the way that [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's unceremonious.

5:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: This wasn't a dignified kind of fucking death like glory and battle kind of death. [SPEAKER_04]: This was taking old yellow or out back and shooting the dog. [SPEAKER_04]: You know, this was fucked up. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the way that I learned about it.

5:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like, everybody learned it through the post from BioWare, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and just a one picture sized paragraph, you know, one screen, sorry guys, we're out. [SPEAKER_01]: Fuck Mass Effect. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks. [SPEAKER_01]: Bye. [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, yeah, two weeks before and seven day.

5:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so this question has been bouncing around in my head. [SPEAKER_01]: Would you have preferred it to be on this random day in October, or would it have hurt more for it to happen on end seven day? [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I've been thinking about this as well. [SPEAKER_04]: And I prefer the random day in October, if it had to happen, either one of those, right?

6:14 [SPEAKER_04]: It would certainly hurt more. [SPEAKER_04]: If you're going into in seven day, everyone's hype, everyone's waiting for the latest drop, and then that happens. [SPEAKER_04]: So, and I think that the team is well aware of that, and I think that's why they did it then. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

6:32 [SPEAKER_01]: What have crushed and just flattened my heart in two million pieces, rather than it just being something that's kind of like devastating, but, [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like the team probably let us know as soon as they possibly could, like, I feel like they were notified. [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe a day or two beforehand?

6:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, probably, hopefully. [SPEAKER_01]: So that way it wasn't a shock to them as well that their studio was closing. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: It's. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, so yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: We'll share my story. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: I was going to say I was going to say I went down such a dark and analogical rabbit hole.

7:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Please bring us back into the light with fond memories of by where. [SPEAKER_01]: So I did not play Cotor, and I did not get into BioWare until much later, but my husband played all the games when they came out. [SPEAKER_01]: Huge Dragon Age fan, huge Mass Effect fan. [SPEAKER_01]: So I watched him play as the hero for Alden, Hawk of Kirkwall and the Inquisitor, and I watched him play Mass Effect.

7:49 [SPEAKER_01]: But I was also on my computer right behind him playing my own games while he was doing that. [SPEAKER_01]: So here I am in this like 2007 range playing the original Witcher which are one. [SPEAKER_01]: So all I'm doing is looking over and following along with who I'm seeing on the screen and I see Commander Shepard and I'm like, why are you playing so much Halo?

8:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't get it. [SPEAKER_01]: his eye the all-eye saw was another soldier in a helmet shooting a space gun so I thought he was playing so much more halo so I didn't really pay attention to the storyline except for occasionally I knew that I knew that Rex was a character and I knew that there was this really tall looking alien and I kept calling him garrison.

8:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So in my head, he was garreth for the longest time, uh, but then so I passed on, uh, I passed on the halo remake and I didn't really get into Dragon Age, but then 2020 rolls around and I am completely cooped up and have exhausted another Skyrim run and so I googled. [SPEAKER_01]: What to play if you love Skyrim and that led me to some really really awesome games my choices were fallout for Dragon Age Origins or Mass Effect and I was like well, I'm not going to start playing fallout for because why would I play the fourth game in a series that's stupid [SPEAKER_01]: And I played Fallout 4 now without playing any of the other Fallout, so don't worry on that, but then I saw Dragon Age and Mass Effect, and I was like, oh, okay Dragon Age, you know what, it's on Game Pass right now, I'll pick it up, but then I started playing it, got through like maybe 10 hours of it, and I was like,

9:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I cannot do another sword and board game. [SPEAKER_01]: I just got off a Skyrim run and I am not in medieval fantasy mode right now. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I don't talk about it. [SPEAKER_04]: I toggle as well. [SPEAKER_04]: Between fantasy and sci-fi, I can't do like two games of the same genre back to back.

10:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, all right, let's, let's pick up Mass Effect and I streamed it because back then I was going by Switch and Bed and I was playing video games while lying in bed on my giant TV and [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, this is really good. [SPEAKER_01]: This is definitely not halo.

10:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I kept, I was kept going. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, where's Gareth? [SPEAKER_01]: Where's Gareth? [SPEAKER_01]: I've got to find Gareth, because that was really the only character that I remembered. [SPEAKER_01]: And like the entire stream, I was like, why is this nihilist guy here?

10:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Are I supposed to be traveling with Gareth? [SPEAKER_01]: So it's ridiculous and it's hilarious and now I am fully aware of who Garish Vicarion is and so yeah it was my 2020 um COVID game that I picked up. [SPEAKER_01]: And then the, I had played through it, the entire trilogy and andromeda, all back to back, absolutely loved it, was looking for more content, found the lore cast, and then my husband bought me legendary addition for our wedding anniversary.

11:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And was like, here honey, have fun and the rest [SPEAKER_04]: that, um, it's funny that like you had to find Gareth, uh, considering how in love with Gareth, you are now. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: He was the only person that I was like, I want to find him because he was was the only voice that I remembered.

11:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and then, uh, Rex's headbutt. [SPEAKER_01]: That was the other thing that I kept waiting for because that was something that my husband started with our daughter when she was like a year old. [SPEAKER_01]: He was headbutting and baby. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he was headbutting the baby, but she was doing it right back.

12:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It was so funny. [SPEAKER_01]: The door will he would yell headbutt and then they like bash little heads together. [SPEAKER_04]: that's hilarious. [SPEAKER_01]: That's how she got her nickname of Rex before I really knew who Rex was. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that wasn't like an anonymity thing that I I picked for the for the for the podcasting.

12:19 [SPEAKER_01]: No, she's been Rex since day one. [SPEAKER_04]: That makes sense. [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, well, I thought I really thought that was like an alias for the podcast. [SPEAKER_04]: All right. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, well, you know, along with all of the outpouring of support that we have seen and we've been a part of after the closure of by where.

12:45 [SPEAKER_04]: There's also been some details that have come out about what the next game was going to look like. [SPEAKER_04]: And this is exactly when I called you, I called you like two minutes after buy a were posted that Facebook. [SPEAKER_04]: And I said, I'm afraid that we're never going to find out what the next game was going to be about.

13:04 [SPEAKER_04]: And and had it been left up to EA, I guarantee you we never would have [SPEAKER_04]: and so someone leaked an internal trailer that the developers had put together to show some of the executives and the bosses in BioWare and EA to kind of prove to them, hey, here's a status report basically on how the game is coming.

13:30 [SPEAKER_04]: And the trailer that we saw after I got leaked [SPEAKER_04]: it's it's pretty incredible. [SPEAKER_04]: And if you're listening to this in an audio platform and if you're one of the two people in the world who hasn't yet seen this video, go to YouTube just look up Mass Effect universe. [SPEAKER_04]: But here we're going to go ahead and play this for you all.

14:01 [SPEAKER_04]: right here and let me bring up the clip and it's about two minutes so we're gonna go ahead and play it and it's entirety and then we will dissect it. [SPEAKER_04]: Shall we? [SPEAKER_04]: All right, here we go. [SPEAKER_09]: You look like military. [SPEAKER_03]: Not anymore. [SPEAKER_09]: So what changed?

14:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Nothing. [SPEAKER_03]: That was the problem. [SPEAKER_03]: By the time you put out one fire, another had already started. [SPEAKER_09]: And now. [SPEAKER_03]: New line of work. [SPEAKER_09]: What? [SPEAKER_03]: Making the choices no one else is willing to make. [SPEAKER_03]: Going where others are afraid to go.

15:22 [SPEAKER_09]: No more chasing fires. [SPEAKER_03]: Stopping them before they start. [SPEAKER_09]: You should be careful. [SPEAKER_09]: That's why we're here. [UNKNOWN]: And that's pretty much it. [UNKNOWN]: And that's pretty much it. [UNKNOWN]: And that's pretty much it. [UNKNOWN]: And that's pretty much it.

15:57 [UNKNOWN]: And that's pretty much it. [UNKNOWN]: And that's pretty much it. [UNKNOWN]: And that's pretty much it. [UNKNOWN]: And that's pretty much it. [UNKNOWN]: And that's pretty much it. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's pretty much it. [SPEAKER_04]: So we'll just go ahead and pause the video right there, and it just says Mass Effect Universe.

16:22 [SPEAKER_04]: When I saw that, I was like, holy shit, this is fucking boss. [SPEAKER_01]: I know, I was so like, I got hyped for the game that's not going to come out. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was just like, it made me sad, mad, and like all the different feelings because I want this game so badly. [SPEAKER_04]: That, as sorry, the bar looks like my next mistake.

16:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: That honestly the crazy part of this is I am meeting as soon as it's got published. [SPEAKER_04]: I message the link to a couple of former by where guys that I know and [SPEAKER_04]: because this was still when we were like, is this legit? [SPEAKER_04]: Is it not legit?

17:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Is this AI? [SPEAKER_04]: And I message it to them and they were like, no, this this looks legit. [SPEAKER_04]: This absolute looks looks legit. [SPEAKER_04]: One of them said that he spotted gray assets in the background so that he doesn't doubt that this was taken in game engine, which is insane.

17:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Like if the cutscenes were really going to look like that, [SPEAKER_04]: Holy shit, but that looks so good. [SPEAKER_04]: Like take everything that everyone always made fun of about in drama with my face is tired. [SPEAKER_04]: And go 180B opposite direction. [SPEAKER_01]: That was one of the things that I, like, I focused in on, like that man was gorgeous, that the sorry there was, I saw, in Hector, like there were imperfections on her face.

18:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It was amazing. [SPEAKER_01]: And then Lyra was recognizable as Lyra, but obviously more advanced in age. [SPEAKER_01]: and a different level of power. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, she could just throw in people. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but yeah, I was waiting for an I will destroy you. [SPEAKER_01]: I would have loved it.

18:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, honestly, I mean, that's how I felt that's how I felt about EA after I saw that trailer. [SPEAKER_04]: I will destroy you is, you know, um, I mean, [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and like not just the textures and the, and the meshes, but the animations, like that whole lean in the, I start the fires is fucking crazy, like you compare that to the original trilogy and even in drama and it's like, okay, yeah 10 years have passed, you know, [SPEAKER_04]: And the fact that we're later learning that those moves were actually moves that you could do in the game like that combat was representative of what they were going to have released.

19:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, wow. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: So. [SPEAKER_01]: The other thing is, okay, can I take a second and mention that kiss, because there's obviously going to be romance in this game. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Silo, what did black screen kiss like that, that, that, that, that was hot.

19:37 [SPEAKER_01]: He was. [SPEAKER_04]: That was very James Bond, which made me so happy because if you go back and you look at the white sheet that Casey Hudson made, when he was, uh, or not the white sheet, the one sheet, uh, pitch for making mass effect. [SPEAKER_04]: He said jackpower in space. [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

20:00 [SPEAKER_04]: and it was like a jack-bower James Bond thing in space and that's exactly where they were leaning into with this character, which was this James Bond-esque kind of clandestine dark tone. [SPEAKER_04]: And that's the other thing. [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like just from this trailer, if this trailer was representative of the tone that they were going to have in the game, it was going to nail it.

20:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Like we were [SPEAKER_04]: it was dark. [SPEAKER_04]: It was like gritty, you know, and it was not the, I like to call and drama to the CW, Mass Effect to the CW, because it had very young adult novel vibes. [SPEAKER_04]: That was not the case in this trailer at all. [SPEAKER_01]: No, that trailer was sexy.

20:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, [SPEAKER_01]: can drama wasn't that sexy, but this trailer very much was. [SPEAKER_01]: And it just like the terrain who was standing behind the, what we want to call him the specter, the end seven. [SPEAKER_01]: He isn't inside the player character. [SPEAKER_01]: He isn't in seven.

21:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: The terrain who was standing behind him, a [SPEAKER_01]: looked really really good. [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's obvious that they were putting a lot of hair into making the alien races that we know and love look even better. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so good. [SPEAKER_04]: Dammit, I want this fucking game that the first cut when he says used to be like used to be military and then the flashback of him, where do you think that was taking place?

21:44 [SPEAKER_04]: It almost looked like Eden Prime. [SPEAKER_01]: It did a little bit. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but it's also been confirmed that this was supposed to be set in the far future, right? [SPEAKER_04]: 600 years. [SPEAKER_04]: 600 years afterward. [SPEAKER_04]: Uh oh, I think we lost Genesis.

22:03 [SPEAKER_04]: No. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: God Genesis. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, wait. [SPEAKER_04]: She's back. [SPEAKER_04]: All right. [SPEAKER_04]: Good. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm back. [SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't tell exactly where it was, and especially because it's set so far in the future, it could have been literally anywhere.

22:18 [SPEAKER_01]: But the fact that we could already start to try and place where these things would have taken means that they obviously were like, it feels no mass effect. [SPEAKER_04]: It does. [SPEAKER_04]: And they were fighting, [SPEAKER_04]: the alliance, he was wearing alliance colors, right? [SPEAKER_04]: Am I hallucinating that?

22:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Or let me go, I feel like I should go back and watch a video again. [SPEAKER_04]: But I was pretty sure that I saw the alliance colors on him, which to me says that the alliance still exists, 600 years later, [SPEAKER_04]: and it was so badass. [SPEAKER_04]: It was like such a badass flashback where he's got the the very tight military cut, you know, he's getting hot dropped into a broken war zone like this shit was gonna slap so hard.

23:19 [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, and like everyone in chat is saying it pisses you off. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and like given the chance, given the choice between knowing what we were going to get and not knowing. [SPEAKER_04]: What would you do? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, honestly, I am I'm I'm happy for it. [SPEAKER_01]: I love this trailer and I think that it has been part of the reason that we have all this fire, all this heat, all this pressure.

23:53 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a billboard. [SPEAKER_01]: time square right now. [SPEAKER_01]: The, you know, utilize save Mass Effect. [SPEAKER_01]: The fast that hashtag save Mass Effect is trending. [SPEAKER_01]: We are close to 250,000 signatures on the change.org. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like we, I feel like this trailer is going to push people to be like, [SPEAKER_01]: look at what could have happened, we are willing to throw our money at it in order for this game to come out.

24:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I would, I would easily put money towards this because I want it to be made. [SPEAKER_04]: Which kind of raises the question in my mind about whether or not it really was just about money. [SPEAKER_04]: you know, it's no secret that and and by the way, here's some some plain evidence that we are not by aware or EA shells at all.

24:46 [SPEAKER_04]: It is no secret who the new owners of EA are. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_04]: It is no secret that the new owners of EA have an abysmal track record of human rights abuses. [SPEAKER_04]: It is no secret that the Saudis and Jared Kushner are not exactly on the same page of the progressive storytelling that by where has always put forth.

25:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Always. [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we can get into the history of progressiveness within BioWare because they have been there from day one with representation that hadn't been previously seen in video games going all the way back to Kotor. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they have always been there pushing the line and moving the agenda forward.

25:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And I agree. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there are people who don't agree with [SPEAKER_01]: The things that Bioware has put out, and so therefore have tried to destroy it, but what I want to see is somebody who also thinks just like that picking up this IP, because if Larian or CDPR were to get their hands on the Mass Effect IP, this game would spy rock it.

26:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, going back to 2007 to Mass Effect had like one of the first LGBT romances on screen with Simming nudity in a video game. [SPEAKER_04]: And Fox news lost their shit. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: Back in 2007. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, and so yeah, that's just, that's this kind of, um, wherebyoer has been for a long time.

26:36 [SPEAKER_04]: So when people start to go into this, oh, biowook, go woke, get broke. [SPEAKER_04]: What the fuck are you talking about, man? [SPEAKER_04]: Like, are you 16 years old? [SPEAKER_04]: Is this your first radio? [SPEAKER_04]: You new to this? [SPEAKER_04]: Come on. [SPEAKER_04]: like it really feels like I'm talking with either kids or Russian bots sometimes and the latter is probably more likely.

26:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, but yeah, this, you know, I think that yes, finances were probably the vast majority of the decision from EA to close by were. [SPEAKER_04]: uh, because of what EA has said in the wake of that, which is that they're going to lean in to other story experiences or what did they how did they put it basically they're going to lean into sports and shooters.

27:24 [SPEAKER_04]: They're going to lean into the FIFA and battlefield and the yearly money makers. [SPEAKER_01]: Huts off such a huge portion of the market though because I don't play those types of games. [SPEAKER_01]: I am here for the story. [SPEAKER_01]: Do I like an occasional good shooter? [SPEAKER_01]: Not even much anymore.

27:44 [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm being completely honest, I want a story built around my shooter game. [SPEAKER_01]: That's why Mass Effect was being perfect because I could go slam people in the face with a shotgun but also get an amazing [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, there wasn't a lot of that wasn't a lot of that when Mass Effect came out and still isn't a lot that does it well now.

28:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I also am keenly aware that when EA was bought, [SPEAKER_04]: they leverage Jake a massive amount of debt to do so. [SPEAKER_04]: And it's like 20 billion, right, 20 billion dollars in debt. [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how much closer, closing by a where a studio of 50 employees is going to get you to that.

28:37 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, you already cut it from like, what was it, 400? [SPEAKER_04]: It was like 400 employees or something like that [SPEAKER_04]: And speaking of that, 50, you're telling me 50 employees who have been actually working on the next Mass Effect for only about two years now, had that like ready to go that trailer, yeah, what the fuck, man?

29:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Like seriously, I don't know, I really understand now, all of the people who say that there is no incentive. [SPEAKER_04]: to working in a AAA gaming studio in 2026. [SPEAKER_04]: What does it get you? [SPEAKER_04]: Like you put out game of the year or some shit and then you get laid off a meaty laugh toward.

29:32 [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, that's just kind of my thoughts on the trailer. [SPEAKER_04]: Genesis, any other thoughts from you before we kind of move forward to the other details that we found out. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, no, I think when when I was watching it through again, I wrote down the music because that the music was on point and felt extremely massive, right into the world of it, absolutely loved it.

30:01 [SPEAKER_01]: The faces that case, Lyra and texture is what I wrote down as just my quick little thoughts rewatching the video. [SPEAKER_04]: It was visceral. [SPEAKER_04]: It was a visceral trailer. [SPEAKER_04]: And apparently it was one of multiple that was being made to show, um, oh, one more thought on the trailer before we moved forward.

30:22 [SPEAKER_04]: That creepy looking hand thing. [SPEAKER_04]: What the fuck was that? [SPEAKER_04]: It looked like an organic reaper thing, didn't it? [SPEAKER_01]: So we have information about that a little bit. [SPEAKER_01]: We do. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, which is just the, that was just the internal asset name.

30:42 [SPEAKER_04]: That wasn't like a narrative name, um, but yeah, we'll get into that in a little bit, but I was still like I was looking at then I was thinking, you know what, I wonder how many new races we were going to see in Mass Effect. [SPEAKER_04]: um, hell, maybe they're running the cycle. [SPEAKER_04]: I don't, I don't even know.

31:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah, rock's art and chat says, uh, I kind of love that they gave that the name Billy and then the bartender and the clip look closer. [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, we will get into that because the technical director for Mass Effect universe had set as much during a live stream of his. [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, we'll get into that in a little bit.

31:31 [SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, why don't we go over to the midbrake? [SPEAKER_04]: We've [SPEAKER_04]: And we will be right back. [SPEAKER_07]: We have beef, bacon, we have beer, the foods of my people. [SPEAKER_05]: Young men have funny ideas of what a story are like. [SPEAKER_05]: I blame the extra net and computer games.

31:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Rex, shepherd, grunt, shepherd, Rex. [SPEAKER_04]: All right, here we are in the middle of the show and this is the part where we would read out your five star reviews. [SPEAKER_04]: We do not have any new ones on Apple Podcast this week. [SPEAKER_04]: But, and you know what, I didn't even check.

32:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Spotify. [SPEAKER_04]: We do read your comments out when you put them on the most recent episode that we've published on Spotify. [SPEAKER_04]: And I know that we are behind on that. [SPEAKER_04]: So let me go ahead and pull up our most recent episode on Spotify. [SPEAKER_04]: And it does look like we've got another couple comments referencing the closure.

32:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Steven says finally caught up on the show and just heard about the by a work closure or sad face. [SPEAKER_04]: And Matthew Smith says sad day hearing this music catching up on [SPEAKER_04]: So a lot of people feeling nostalgic after that news and I'm not surprised at all because I'm sure you saw it, Genesis, but we got a lot of people following us on the social media counts in the wake of that by-work lotion news and we also have new patrons to shout out like a lot of new patrons who signed up, which was actually surprising to me.

33:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I kind of thought that people would just be like, all right, if the next game's not going to come out, then let's start pulling back, but I think that it just kind of proved that the people who play Mass Effect are really part of a Mass Effect community. [SPEAKER_01]: We are not just a bunch of gamers, even though this is a solo game, it is one player.

33:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there was the multiplayer for ME3, but it's built a community and a following and a way for so many people to connect over this game that we don't want to see it die. [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to support the people who are still supporting it. [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's why I think we've gotten the influx of followers, the influx of patrons, the influx of listeners and viewers.

34:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been kind of humbling to see that we are a part of and at the frontlines of holding the line to keep this game going. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and kind of cutting through the fourth [SPEAKER_04]: You know, when I called you after the news, I was like, I was in shock and then deep despair and then I just kept seeing like people, you know, message us or reach out to us somehow or follow us on social media or tag us and things and I realized that we don't, we don't get to resign.

34:56 [SPEAKER_04]: we don't get to resign and then a quote from somebody actually this will be my voice line quiz for you right now. [SPEAKER_04]: A quote from somebody in the Mass Effect universe came to mind just keep shooting. [SPEAKER_04]: No matter what happens just keep shooting. [SPEAKER_01]: Is that a garrison line?

35:25 [SPEAKER_04]: It is actually a jackline from the RMAX arena, I think. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm pretty sure, let me, let me double check that right now. [SPEAKER_04]: She says, oh, man, I can't find the quote now. [SPEAKER_04]: I think I'm paraphrasing it right now, but it's, yeah, no matter what happens, just keep shooting.

35:52 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm pretty sure that's what she says. [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, anyway, that's what it made me think of is that [SPEAKER_04]: you know that the show has has always been far bigger than me or Tom or you and there's a lot of people who like like one guy message to me on Instagram and I feel so bad I didn't have the time to respond and then when I tried to go back and find the message it was gone but [SPEAKER_04]: uh... he was in a really dark place he was contemplating taking the easy way out and he didn't and the fact that that that team's uh... work and writing saved even one life and i know he's not alone oh yeah but the fact that it saved even one life uh... makes it worth it [SPEAKER_04]: Not sure that's how the money crunchers and the number of crunchers feel, uh, that's how I feel.

37:00 [SPEAKER_04]: But, um, yeah, so so seeing that that outpouring of support. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, I knew that we were going to continue. [SPEAKER_04]: That we were going to continue to, um, hold the torch. [SPEAKER_04]: so to speak. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I've told you this story, but this podcast got me through an extremely dark time.

37:31 [SPEAKER_01]: One of my friends is named [SPEAKER_01]: His name was Max, um, did take the easy way out. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was listening to the lore cast, just kind of in background music, background noise on my way to his funeral. [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, [SPEAKER_01]: I paused the car, I paused, I paused the podcast, got out of the car, went to the funeral, was, you know, crying, swapping stories, his ex-wife was there, you know, a big, very emotional emotional day.

38:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I get back in the car and instinctively just kind of like turn up the volume and [SPEAKER_01]: And you started laughing. [SPEAKER_01]: You were laughing hysterically about I don't even know what I can't remember. [SPEAKER_04]: Was it the the way that I described the Vorcia, the booby trap, mouth rat eating mother fuckers.

38:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe. [SPEAKER_04]: I think that's what I said. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, so many years ago that it just like I just sat in my car and laughed with you through the speakers and it just like I felt the weight of the death kind of leave my shoulders because of the way that you and Tom were laughing with each other and I was just like [SPEAKER_01]: this podcast is amazing and exactly what I needed in that moment.

39:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, there you go. [SPEAKER_04]: That's the first time I've ever heard that. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, you never know how your words impact people, right? [SPEAKER_04]: Um, okay. [SPEAKER_04]: So we brought up the new patrons who signed up. [SPEAKER_04]: I do want to give them a shout out.

39:25 [SPEAKER_04]: I have that list here in front of me. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to go ahead and go down the list. [SPEAKER_04]: We've got Aeron 73 Gordon in seven Spectre Sam, Edison Salvador Edward S and Fabian P. Thank you all so much for signing up and that was all just within the past week. [SPEAKER_04]: So thank you all for signing up, and we've also got our tier 5 patrons that we like to shout out every week that is Retrobot, Superfly 440, 440 rather Kira C. Lieutenant Tocino and William.

40:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you guys for your continued support of the show, and thank you to everyone who has ever supported the show. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, you know, you guys are the reason why we are here five years, uh, five and a half years later, uh, going on episode two, 60. [SPEAKER_04]: So we've held the torch for Mass Effect for five years.

40:24 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to make any commitments, but I think we can keep holding it a little longer. [SPEAKER_01]: We will hold the line. [SPEAKER_01]: There we go. [SPEAKER_04]: All right. [SPEAKER_04]: With that, let's get back to the rest of the show. [SPEAKER_08]: After time and drift among open stars, a long tide of light and through shows of dust, I will return to where I began.

40:43 [SPEAKER_06]: Celery and reproduction different, very little sex drive. [SPEAKER_06]: If intended to try human, would try you. [SPEAKER_06]: Out, my bakeries! [SPEAKER_04]: all right and we are back in the second half of the show and it looks like some problems die hard that problem being my shitty connection with my webcam but at least my mic is still on so I'm gonna keep talking but okay so we teased it a little bit before we went to break uh we have some details that we know about the setting of the next Mass Effect and what it [SPEAKER_04]: Um, the first one that I saw was a long list of details posted by dantics.

41:29 [SPEAKER_04]: shortly after the closure was announced, so this was posted on October 23rd, and Dan Ticks posts saying, quote, I can finally talk about the mass effect or I can finally talk about mass effect universe. [SPEAKER_04]: Since BioWare closed, I can now reveal that I was part of the Mass Effect Council, saw what BioWare was building and provided feedback during development, and quote.

41:54 [SPEAKER_04]: So, Genesis, you were keeping up with Dragon Age Vail Guard by a word at something similar for that. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yeah, as far as I know, um, I wasn't so much on keeping up with what people were posting about it because I was so anti-spoiler when it came to vail guard. [SPEAKER_01]: I only heard like the big hits that were coming out like how they changed their name from dreadwolf to vail guard and uh, that solace was going to be playing a much bigger role in it now.

42:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I kind of stayed away from anything spoilery or potentially spoilery about the game. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: So they were basically by where got together what I understand is a small community of content creators, a massive prominent, mass-fact community members, possibly writers, other people in the video games sphere to essentially give them like real time on going feedback.

42:57 [SPEAKER_04]: And they would send updates to this, uh, Mass Effect Council and say, Hey, what do you think? [SPEAKER_04]: And that doesn't surprise me, given what we saw on the trailer because it very much looks like they were making a game for us, for the Mass Effect fans. [SPEAKER_04]: They were not trying to broaden the game even further and broaden the appeal and make it a mile wide and inch cheap.

43:24 [SPEAKER_04]: It does not look like they were doing that. [SPEAKER_01]: No, it does not, it looks like they were staying right within the lane of Mass Effect and making it a game that was meant for Mass Effect gamers. [SPEAKER_01]: And we have this long list of things that they had set up for like what Dantic's talked about about like these were going to be the points that we hit in the game and gave us some confirmation of what was going to be happening.

43:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So we have a timeline now. [SPEAKER_01]: We find it crazy. [SPEAKER_04]: We finally have a timeline. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: And you know what? [SPEAKER_04]: We called that out on the lower cast like three years ago, I think. [SPEAKER_04]: And I have more back padding to do for myself.

44:12 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'll save it a little bit, but we did call it out. [SPEAKER_04]: We were like, you know, definitely looks like they're going to incorporate in drama day and the Milky Way. [SPEAKER_04]: Only the only way they can do that is with 600 years. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, we we would always speculated that they were going to somehow bring the two timelines together because of the fact that we saw an engar and body shape in the jacket poster.

44:41 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think, yeah, I think that's where we saw the Ingarra. [SPEAKER_01]: And then we talked about how the playing as a customizable N7 agent, we figured that would be. [SPEAKER_01]: It was either going to be our own player or the child of Lyra. [SPEAKER_01]: But it looks like maybe this kid is not a child of Lyra, but a friend of Lyra.

45:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: Well, or maybe not, um, it could have just been a, it kind of seemed like like a random criminal syndicate, didn't it? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, I think the N7 and Ly are working together. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, sorry. [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry. [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't tracking where you were going with that.

45:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, absolutely. [SPEAKER_04]: They're working together. [SPEAKER_04]: And speaking of that, um, [SPEAKER_04]: So, you remember all the times that I said, look, I think the best route forward might not be bringing Shepard back, but instead creating a new Shepard, creating a new in seven hero, where we have the same kind of framework going forward where we have the same, it's a human, right?

46:01 [SPEAKER_04]: it is a definite window through which we perceive the galaxy and can relate to because they're human. [SPEAKER_04]: It's an in seven agent, so that much is decided about their background, but the rest is up to us. [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's the perfect route to go with it to give us something completely customizable because in a game like the Witcher where you play as Geralt no matter what, to me it's not as enjoyable as if I got to pick and choose exactly what they look like what characteristics and a personality.

46:41 [SPEAKER_01]: that I can play as, rather than being told, no, this is the path that you have to follow. [SPEAKER_01]: So customizeable, big win. [SPEAKER_01]: I think this thing that stuck out most to me and the thing that makes me so happy is that Shepherds legacy preserved regardless of your ending.

47:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Dantex writing that Shepherds legacy was preserved [SPEAKER_04]: It incorporates every ending I suppose. [SPEAKER_04]: I don't, that's extremely vague, right? [SPEAKER_04]: Shepherd's legacy preserve regardless of your ending, which tells me they hadn't quite gotten there yet. [SPEAKER_04]: With all the other details, Dan takes his posting here.

47:23 [SPEAKER_04]: That one is by far the most vague. [SPEAKER_01]: It is, but you can also, like we've talked about this before, I believe it was on a Patreon chat about how they could incorporate that, and especially with a 600-year time jump, and the mass relays being rebuilt, all those things, that was the biggest thing that people were wondering about was how are we going to be traveling around the universe if all the relays were destroyed, what is going to, like, [SPEAKER_01]: under control is shepherd still out there.

47:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, they could very well be. [SPEAKER_01]: And then it's synthesis is the only one that I don't know how that incorporates. [SPEAKER_01]: Unless it is this new species that we're seeing, you know, maybe they are the synthesis creatures. [SPEAKER_04]: Right, or, you know, technology advances [SPEAKER_04]: That can also work, you know, um, perhaps technology advanced to a point where cyber networks were so common that essentially everyone was synthesized anyway.

48:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I can see that. [SPEAKER_04]: Dantix also writes a galaxy divided into three major factions. [SPEAKER_04]: Humanity, Crogans, Beterians, and more allied together, so they're one alliance. [SPEAKER_04]: The next alliance is the council races, forming their own. [SPEAKER_04]: That makes sense, old power, trying to cling to the power that they add.

48:58 [SPEAKER_04]: And then the GIF, emerging as a third superpower. [SPEAKER_04]: OK, so the GIF are not destroyed. [SPEAKER_04]: So if you picked destroy, they're not completely gone. [SPEAKER_04]: Now this makes sense, and you can reconcile this because there were some death that went on the deep space expedition.

49:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. [SPEAKER_04]: And they would not have been affected by the crucible. [SPEAKER_01]: exactly or maybe you know a planet as an entire solar system that was far enough away from a relay that the blast wave didn't hit there because we've all run out of fuel trying to get [SPEAKER_01]: uh, galaxies to go explore and match the fact three, you know, I, so you could say that maybe Geth were on those planets.

49:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Geth were in their own ship. [SPEAKER_01]: Geth were not in a body and a hive mind ship was far away enough from the blast. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you can still have, there are a lot of different ways that they can make the Geth a superpower. [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, and also the, the catalyst [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

50:17 [SPEAKER_04]: And considering that it looks like the Koreans canonically, we're not wiped out that the Koreans are there. [SPEAKER_04]: I think I saw one or two Koreans in the trailer. [SPEAKER_04]: Considering that, there would be schematics, right, for rebuilding the GIF. [SPEAKER_04]: uh... so it's not a big jump to make um... dandex goes on to say a galactic cold war instead of another reaper style invasion with a shadow he adversary this is okay this is the back padding i was talking about this is what i meant [SPEAKER_04]: So, I was saying, I don't even know how many years ago at this point, like I was saying like, hey, look, my camera's back.

51:03 [SPEAKER_04]: I was saying like three, four years ago that the power vacuum that will come, as a result of Mass Effect 3, no matter which ending you picked, is going to lead to a struggle for dominance among different warring factions. [SPEAKER_04]: And I hate to say, like, I told you so, but no, I don't hate, I don't hate it.

51:25 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm back in this context. [SPEAKER_04]: I very much enjoy it. [SPEAKER_04]: I feel vindicated because of all the people that told me I was fucking dumb. [SPEAKER_04]: So, there is a cold war going on. [SPEAKER_04]: That makes this spy thriller even more fascinating and compelling and like sexy.

51:47 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: a cross between John Wick and James Bond, it's a very James Bond. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, you know, the intrigue, the deceit, the duplicity, man, I was so ready for this. [SPEAKER_04]: Dan takes also says, Geth built mega structures, maybe that's one of the mass relays.

52:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Quite possibly, or we're about to see a board cube flying through space, either one. [SPEAKER_04]: or there was like even bigger death dreadnoughts or maybe the death built their own citadel. [SPEAKER_04]: That'd be fucking cool, that'd be cool, it also says drum roll please connections between the Milky Way and Andromeda.

52:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, called that one, which means that they should they would have had to advance and technology to a point of developing like wormholes, essentially. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I don't think a QEC would be able to reach all the way out there. [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, and the whole diet, um, [SPEAKER_04]: like space time dilations.

52:58 [SPEAKER_04]: I was also made fun of when I said that that was a likelihood for the next game because I said, look, I don't know how they're going to reconcile all of these things without getting into the whole messing with time aspect. [SPEAKER_04]: and we'll get into that a little bit more when we talk about what the technical director revealed in his live stream, um, but suffice to say connections between the Milky Way and Andromeda.

53:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they were, they were totally looking at messing with time. [SPEAKER_04]: And Genesis, this next one kind of lens credence to that about experimental technology. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, implanted in you as a unique point of a difference, meaning like you're actually getting cyberware, something I'm very familiar with.

53:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Hell yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, so, and I think that that could be the fight style maybe that you do, because you're cyberware in cyberpunk dictates the way that you progress your combat skills. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I could see that that's how they would do that here in Mass Effect instead of like, you know, maybe your guy is not a biotic, and so you need to have the cyber technology in order to do combat.

54:12 [SPEAKER_04]: And it looks like the cyberware and cybernetics was gameplay wise going to be integral for how the player was able to, it would open up different avenues for accessing missions in the environment. [SPEAKER_04]: handcrafted missions like Mass Effect 1 through 3, but with Hitman style freedom and how you complete them.

54:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, the keyword of the hitman because the hitman style games are, you know, that's a whole another genre of the spy type game and being able to just say, however, you want to play if you want to go the sneak route, the sub-terviewed, the spy, or if you want to go in guns blazing, you can go either way in hitman and make it work.

55:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it would definitely be however you want to finish this job is how you were going to play your end seven. [SPEAKER_04]: You know, um, I also want to have zero in on the handcrafted missions, like Mass Effect 133. [SPEAKER_04]: Notably absent there is in drama. [SPEAKER_04]: And I think a lot of people will feel this when I say that the big complaint with in drama was that a lot of the quests and missions in the [SPEAKER_04]: you know.

55:48 [SPEAKER_04]: And, and so this handcrafted missions like Mass Effect 1 through 3 tells me that they were fleshing out the writing a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_01]: Andrommet I felt like a lot of fetch and a courier and escort, and that was pretty much the whole game. [SPEAKER_01]: I had fun with the combat, and I did love the story line, but all the quests and all the missions I had to get through to get to those storyline beads was a little bit rough.

56:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and YouTube in chat or YouTube's in chat says I think the handcrafted as opposed to procedureally generated. [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, so we would not see procedureally generated stuff like we saw with no man's guy star field. [SPEAKER_04]: I can't remember now if in drama to actually had any procedureally generated quests.

56:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, they may have may not have, but, yeah, there was going to be a tailored feel to it. [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, Dantic's also says brutal, close range executions, some of which we saw in the trailer. [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, squadmates who can clash with each other, that's cool. [SPEAKER_04]: I will always want and more of that, like, inter-dynamic, like interpersonal dynamics between squadmates that was independent of me.

57:07 [SPEAKER_01]: especially like in Mass Effect 2, where that happened like the moment between Jack and Miranda, like I loved those, being able to like negotiate between the two of them. [SPEAKER_01]: And so the fact that we would get something like that again, oh, love it. [SPEAKER_04]: It also says romance was not being sanitized.

57:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, okay. [SPEAKER_04]: I think I think that means we're going to get some spice. [SPEAKER_01]: bring on the spice, bring on the heat, even that one sexy kissing that we got was just like, how low that is way more than what we got in several of them. [SPEAKER_04]: Yep, and of course, Lyra returns.

57:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Vantic says now an incredibly powerful Asari matriarch. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, by or special blue girl comes back, I don't, I don't think anyone surprised about that, but it is nice that we would have that kind of vector for the living memory of the events of the original trilogy. [SPEAKER_01]: for sure.

58:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And we knew that it was like, well, we knew that Lyra was returning from that original trailer where she picks up the N7 logo in the snow. [SPEAKER_01]: And so we always knew that she would be the one who could have survived that long. [SPEAKER_01]: The only other possibilities being [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.

58:37 [SPEAKER_04]: I was going to say Rex and Grunt, uh, possible. [SPEAKER_04]: The Crogan companion that it looked like we had in the trailer looked a lot more like drag, but younger, which is weird. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, he notically, drag's daughter did have children. [SPEAKER_04]: Mm. [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

58:56 [SPEAKER_04]: So I guess that's possible. [SPEAKER_04]: It could be, like, I guess this does not address whether or not that the genophage is canonically cured. [SPEAKER_01]: That's also true, but the Rogan who went to and drama that were showing signs of no longer being affected by the genophage because they didn't get the secondary booster shot from Morton.

59:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, so that's the end of the details that Dantic's posts and Dantic says from what I saw by aware was making mass effect for us, the fans not for the people who don't exist. [SPEAKER_04]: It looked incredible and now we may never get to play it. [SPEAKER_04]: Well, thank you, Dantix, for sharing those details.

59:47 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't doubt that those details were a summary of what Dantix saw in development, but I think that a lot of that was probably like whiteboard talk, you know, things that were planned, but now yet executed. [SPEAKER_01]: we would love to have you on the show to sit and talk about it. [SPEAKER_01]: All of our social medias are open, hit us up.

1:00:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Well on that note, and I told the discord, you know, in the immediate aftermath of the closure announcement, I told everyone this is an open call to anyone who lost their job [SPEAKER_04]: about, you know, we don't have to get into the nitty gritty of what happened, workplace stuff that could get you in hot water.

1:00:49 [SPEAKER_04]: But if you're able to and want to talk about what could have been, [SPEAKER_04]: then please let me know you can email us and Mass Effect Lorecast at gmail.com. [SPEAKER_04]: And even if you don't want to go on camera, totally understand that our email is open and I will respect anonymity.

1:01:12 [SPEAKER_04]: So that being said, we also get more details from the technical director who was working on Mass Effect universe. [SPEAKER_04]: He was doing a live stream, and I believe his name is pronounced Roman to 10, and he's French Canadian. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, so here's a list of details that he goes over.

1:01:36 [SPEAKER_04]: number one he refers to the the customizable in seven agent as the shepherd. [SPEAKER_04]: I think that's just something colloquially that the team was using, you know, this is the shepherd as in the player character. [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think that that that we should glean anything more from that.

1:01:52 [SPEAKER_04]: But he refers to the customizable in seven agent as the shepherd and says again that they would be customizable and that [SPEAKER_01]: then like the actual combat that you would be doing would be using those throws those pulls the shooting and the easily moving around the room. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.

1:02:16 [SPEAKER_04]: He also describes something in the, and I think this part might be the difficulties of translation. [SPEAKER_04]: He describes that everything in the game was statefall, quote unquote statefall. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not sure really what stateful means I would love to ask him. [SPEAKER_04]: You got any guesses, Genesis?

1:02:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Either it was making a statement or that it was there and in place. [SPEAKER_01]: Like they knew what every like everything had its place. [SPEAKER_01]: It was all in state. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, they knew where the story was going to go. [SPEAKER_01]: They knew what they wanted to do. [SPEAKER_01]: They knew what assets they were going to be using.

1:02:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And what the things were going to be looking like. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, that's how I would think it. [SPEAKER_01]: If everything was stateful, it means that everything was established. [SPEAKER_04]: YouTube says it's a type of tech for accounting states in a game. [SPEAKER_04]: So is that like a way to measure narrative status?

1:03:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Zero time dilemma used something similar. [SPEAKER_04]: So I didn't play that game and I wish I could understand a little bit more. [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe this is something that I'm going to have to look into in my spare time. [SPEAKER_04]: Roman also says that all the choices that we made in Mass Effect's 1-3 were taken into account.

1:03:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Now I feel like that may be a little bit of an exaggeration because we made like hundreds and hundreds of choices, many of them small. [SPEAKER_04]: But I think that there is probably like a list of like top 20 choices maybe that we made a Mass Effect 3 or Mass Effect 1 through 3 that would kind of show up in the game somehow maybe through a minor dialogue reference or something like that.

1:04:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's definitely that note and you know, it's like we saw that when we got to do the Genesis comics in between the games of here or some of the key major choices that you can make that actually affect the next game because that would be a lot of choices to have to keep track of and to implement.

1:04:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: There's also some kind of method that they were developing. [SPEAKER_04]: He says where you could plug your saves together to make like parallel universes. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, I'm guessing this is related to the stateful thing. [SPEAKER_04]: So basically you could like generate multiple timelines where your decisions, you could make decisions in the game, which would contradict earlier decisions that you already made.

1:05:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm understanding it now because cozy chaos cafe brought up the Dragon Age Keep. [SPEAKER_01]: And the Dragon Age Keep was a website where you could go and each decision you make in Dragon Age and especially like in Dragon Age origins, you could say I made this one, this one, this one, and this one, and then it would show the branching tree of what each decision [SPEAKER_01]: And then you could use that as your export, you go this world, world state.

1:05:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And so if you wanted to go into Dragon Age 2 and then again from 2 into Inquisition, I want to have a world state where Alistair is king. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is what happened in this game in this game and then build that. [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe you could very much have a Citadel peep of all the decisions that you went through and make up on this website and then load your world state.

1:06:15 [SPEAKER_01]: It would then have this parallel universes and all of your decisions would be able to pull together. [SPEAKER_04]: that's fucking crazy. [SPEAKER_04]: That's that's making my head hurt. [SPEAKER_04]: Think about that. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, well, so yeah, YouTube says I think that given where they were in development, they may have accounted for it all on paper, but properly implementing it remains to be seen.

1:06:41 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's kind of where I am making my inference. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, again, neither Genesis nor I have like any inside knowledge about the development [SPEAKER_04]: uh... so that's where my making my inference um... but yeah romant also says uh... missions didn't fail because you killed someone paths would remain open anyway so they made it so that basically there were more than there was more than one way to finish a mission mm-hmm [SPEAKER_04]: And I love hearing that the missions didn't fail because you killed someone because that makes me think of another game near and dear to my heart, Morrowind, where you could fuck up your game universe irreparably.

1:07:32 [SPEAKER_04]: the game did not stop you from doing that. [SPEAKER_04]: And if you killed someone that was integral to the quest line, it would tell you restore a save game or persist in the doomed world you've created. [SPEAKER_04]: So it reminds me of that because there were more than one way to approach an inquest.

1:07:53 [SPEAKER_04]: And I love the creativity that it provides people in playing the game, [SPEAKER_05]: Mhm. [SPEAKER_01]: And I love that the two people that we have all this information from are kind of confirming this by saying the same things. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a really like yes. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

1:08:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, also says that autonomy was a key part of the game. [SPEAKER_04]: that the player's agency was everything, basically, um, which tells me that we were probably going to get a game where we were, uh, [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I was going to say do you remember, but you didn't play Mass Effect back then, but the people who played Mass Effect back in 2007, 2009, 2012, you probably remember getting together with your friends and saying, like, oh, dude, I did this part and then this part and then this happened and your friend was probably like, wait, what?

1:08:56 [SPEAKER_04]: How is that person alive? [SPEAKER_04]: Or how did that happen? [SPEAKER_04]: And having that kind of reconciling moment of like, oh, we are playing [SPEAKER_04]: and it was such a cool feeling at the time because that was so new, you know, that was like [SPEAKER_04]: out of this world anyway started a lot of arguments with me and my friends who my friends I was the only one of my friends who is a destroy fan all the others were synthesis so but yeah Also Roman makes a remark which is very in line with what a lot of people know and feel which is that EA never sells anything any of their IPs they just shut things down and sit on their IPs [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

1:09:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Which I hate and I hope in this one we win. [SPEAKER_01]: Let the fans win. [SPEAKER_01]: We are obviously clamoring for it. [SPEAKER_04]: I, I hope so to my concern is that people will continue to buy or play mass effect or buy merch to show that there is tangible interest still in the game series, but I think that that's one of the reasons why EA is sitting on the IP because they can continue to license that out to make money from a game that they're not even invested in anymore.

1:10:21 [SPEAKER_01]: that's fair and valid. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, don't send them money. [SPEAKER_01]: We need to cut them off and say we want I want the game though, but I don't know how to make it happen. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: Romain also says that the bartender in that trailer was a new race. [SPEAKER_04]: He didn't say what the race is just that it was a new race of alien.

1:10:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I need to watch it a little bit more frame by frame. [SPEAKER_01]: So that way I can see what people were talking about. [SPEAKER_04]: He looked like a Korean kind of. [SPEAKER_04]: It looked like he was wearing an environmental suit. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so it could have been anyone.

1:11:03 [SPEAKER_04]: It could have been a rolloie in an environmental suit, who knows? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we know that they wear them. [SPEAKER_04]: you brought it up earlier, Billy. [SPEAKER_04]: Billy was the internal name that they were using to refer to that giant hand thing that looked like an organic reaper with.

1:11:21 [SPEAKER_04]: And apparently Billy could have generated tentacles. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: A new hand R.S. [SPEAKER_01]: creature species. [SPEAKER_04]: New AO3 topic coming in hot. [SPEAKER_01]: all the tentacles. [SPEAKER_04]: And I guess that there was, they were working with some kind of idea of how to share your saves, your save games.

1:11:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I'm not sure what they would have done with that. [SPEAKER_04]: Reminded and really elaborate on that. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I mean, for me, that's like, all right, I want to go, I want to see how your shepherd turned out. [SPEAKER_01]: I want to see what your decisions were. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yep, so reman talks highly of the development of course, you know, reman was working on the team, but he seemed like this wasn't just a job for him.

1:12:19 [SPEAKER_04]: from I watched his live stream with the subtitles, because he's speaking in French, but I watched a live stream and it really, like, I liked to think I have a good bullshit detector. [SPEAKER_04]: It didn't go off with him at all. [SPEAKER_04]: And I really think they believed in what he was saying.

1:12:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I did not watch the livestream, so I wasn't in on that, but I, the way that I've seen people talk about it online on Twitter, on Blue Sky, all these different sources, the people who were there and in the know really believed in the product. [SPEAKER_01]: and really we're working full force as if this game absolutely was going to happen and that's where it kind of hurts and makes me I'm going to say that there's [SPEAKER_01]: If it's a financial thing or if it was just a pride thing or just a, I, we don't eat the new owners of EA didn't want this IP to continue on.

1:13:38 [SPEAKER_01]: let it go. [SPEAKER_01]: Give it to the people who want it. [SPEAKER_01]: Give it to a studio who will be able to respect what has been built and can continue it on. [SPEAKER_01]: Even if okay, let EA keep some of the fucking money and you know get all the licensing or all the money from swag and gear and shit.

1:14:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Let the game come out. [SPEAKER_01]: Give us this, because it looks amazing. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: I know. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm very, very frustrated. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm frustrated. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sad. [SPEAKER_04]: You know, depressed. [SPEAKER_01]: I have one other question.

1:14:32 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think's going to happen to the Amazon Mass Effect TV show? [SPEAKER_04]: Hmm, I think that depends on whether Amazon feels like they've poured too much money into it to not try and make some of the money back. [SPEAKER_04]: That's that's my hard tax answer, you know? [SPEAKER_04]: my hopeful answer is that they're still going to push it out because they are interested to see what the appetite is.

1:15:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, and I guess that might be our best hope at this point that the Mass Effect TV show actually fucking rocks and then it does come out and that it goes fucking [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I know that I know so many people who aren't gamers that watched the follow show and absolutely loved it.

1:15:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And so hopefully it works for Mass Effect too. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: And basically what I'm saying is there is that ratings for TV shows are very linear. [SPEAKER_04]: They're much more easy to analyze than video games. [SPEAKER_04]: And the success of a TV show is very [SPEAKER_04]: straightforward in terms of easy to clean.

1:16:00 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm hoping that the Mass Effect TV show if it does come out is so well-received and it's such a great success that the executives at EA who don't fucking play video games. [SPEAKER_04]: It's easy for them to understand [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I see this TV show got how many downloads? [SPEAKER_04]: How many ratings?

1:16:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Wow. [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, maybe we should put out that game. [SPEAKER_04]: The part that pisses me off the most about that though is that even if that's the case, even if next week EA's executives decide, you know what? [SPEAKER_04]: We kind of fucked up. [SPEAKER_04]: You know, let's bring this back online.

1:16:51 [SPEAKER_04]: The infrastructure is already being dismantled. [SPEAKER_04]: Like all of the work that they put together, I know that there's individual developers who are trying to kind of save some things. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure EA has stipulations about what was made on their company time is their product and it's their property to do with as they please.

1:17:13 [SPEAKER_04]: But a lot of the progress, it would be starting from scratch, essentially. [SPEAKER_02]: They'd have to start from scratch again. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, it would not, you know, the momentum was already there. [SPEAKER_04]: The ball was rolling. [SPEAKER_04]: It's a lot harder to turn the lights back on.

1:17:32 [SPEAKER_01]: What being a realist, Sam? [SPEAKER_01]: I need to optimize them. [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, yeah, like totally the next Mass Effect game could come out next year. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I've always been one for giving people a hot, steaming load of bullshit, right? [SPEAKER_04]: I know.

1:17:50 [SPEAKER_04]: I know. [SPEAKER_04]: Just to make them feel better. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, I know, that's my job. [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm sure that there were fuckers at EA who were pushing for those teases year after year on in seven day, but looking back, I also selfishly think how many years did we sit through cryptic fucking tweets from Mike Gamble just for this shit.

1:18:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I mean at least. [SPEAKER_01]: At least they were there. [SPEAKER_01]: It was giving us like, we had hope that this game was going to come out. [SPEAKER_01]: We, and obviously they were working on it and it wasn't just the dragons or coming, the dragons are coming. [SPEAKER_01]: No, we saw a fucking dragon, Sam.

1:18:48 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the dragon is here. [SPEAKER_01]: We just don't get to go touch it. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: Typically, I would avoid touching a dragon while it's fucking, but yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I know. [SPEAKER_04]: And this trailer is kind of like the most substantial look that we over got at Mass Effect and it came after its death.

1:19:17 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, Mike Gamble recently said to someone on Twitter, basically that someone asked, are we ever going to find out more [SPEAKER_04]: his answer was essentially yes sometime later and I was like this mother fucker is still teasing [SPEAKER_04]: I'm positive that there's some kind of india or something that he's referencing.

1:19:47 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just making a joke. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, but yeah, I wonder how restrictive those india's are that they're working on. [SPEAKER_04]: I know for the tech industry, it's very, very punitive. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so yeah, that's pretty much- My jam wall is an edging lord and that's okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Did you say edging lord?

1:20:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I said what I said. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, man. [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's pretty much all we got for, um, I guess what would be in seven day? [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not expecting anything on in seven day, are you? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm expecting merch. [SPEAKER_04]: If they fucking push that merch. [SPEAKER_04]: So help me, God.

1:20:36 [SPEAKER_04]: You're right. [SPEAKER_04]: They probably will. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I'm expecting a merch drop. [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm going to shit in an envelope and send it to the appropriate person. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, and all right, well, that's, you're probably right.

1:20:56 [SPEAKER_04]: We'll see, we'll see about in seven day, and if something does come of it, even the leak, [SPEAKER_04]: We'll be here to cover it. [SPEAKER_04]: Next week, we talk with our patrons who I'm going to go out on limb here and say that they probably want to hold a little bit of a moratorium or memorial, rather, for Mass Effect.

1:21:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, so we'll see. [SPEAKER_04]: We'll see what they feel like talking about that patron chat is scheduled for Halloween night of the 31st at 7 p.m. Pacific 10 p.m. Eastern. [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to bring up to the patrons to see if they still want to do it on that day because it is Halloween.

1:21:39 [SPEAKER_04]: But it is a Saturday. [SPEAKER_04]: So. [SPEAKER_01]: If anybody, if everybody is agreeable to it with the patrons and if you are signed up for October, we will have all of your names recorded, why not do patron chat on end seven day because that's the next Saturday. [SPEAKER_01]: Instead of, you know, messing with somebody's Halloween night activities or anything like that, we could have Patreon chat on end seven day.

1:22:11 [SPEAKER_04]: I like that idea. [SPEAKER_04]: All right, we will bring it up to the patrons ultimately, it is their decision. [SPEAKER_04]: But until then, next time, Spectre's, I'm trying to think of some kind of mass-factor-related quote to say, you know what? [SPEAKER_04]: Just until next time, do not go gently into that good night.

1:22:35 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, take care, everybody, and we will see you next week. [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for listening to the Mass Effect War Test. [SPEAKER_04]: Reach out to us on Blue Sky, Twitter, Discord, Patreon, or email us at Mass EffectLoreCast at gmail.com. [SPEAKER_01]: Join us next week for more lore, same space, same time.

1:23:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Or check out our live streams at twitch.tv-mass EffectFourCast.