Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 90: Peak Experience

0:06 Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

0:20 Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows with all new commentary, updates and insights.

0:25 Today we're recapping episode ninety, which we named Peak Experience.

0:29 This episode came out on October twelfth, twenty seventeen.

0:32 All right, let's listen to the intro of episode ninety. Stephen, if you have to be like a fucking on the street reporter when we're being so interesting, always be a recording, baby.

0:49 Everyone knows this.

0:50 Always be recording with us. If we're going to talk about Gerard Duppardo, we need everyone to hear it. In the world breaking news America.

0:58 Gerard dup aurdos to drinking fourteen bottles of wine a day.

1:02 God damn, dude, his teeth must be more stained than mine.

1:06 I mean not stained, they're falling out.

1:08 I mean perhaps, but he's so drunk he doesn't give a fuck.

1:11 I think that's how much Andre the Giant would drink.

1:15 Did you know that? And like, yeah, he'd eat like twelve chickens and drink like seventeen six packs of beer.

1:20 I wish, I wish Vince were her. I can ask him because that's what he would actually do. And then Vince always hated red wine, and then he found out that Andrea the Giant loved Bordeaux.

1:30 No, I'm sorry, he loved Bougolet wine.

1:33 So we tracked it down and like, now we drink Boujolet wineer the giant drink.

1:37 You know that. I love giants?

1:39 Right?

1:39 No, that's aait what it's one of my jams. I had never even thought of that as a thing. Yeah, I'm upset. Oh, welcome, this is my favorite murder the podcast. I want to start it.

1:51 I'm obsessed with giants because the rest of it was all bullshit.

1:54 I mean, was it or was it some of the best podcasting we've ever done? Anyone's ever done? Crown America, Robert Wildlow was in the Guinness Book of World Records. And if you are a child of the late seventies early eighties, like myself, before there was the internet, before there were cell phones and smartphones, before there really even was that much TV. We just had four channels. You did things like sit in your aunt's living room and read the Guinness Book of World Record? Did that so hard? Right? Fuck? Yeah?

2:28 Twins on fat Twins on.

2:29 Motorcycles, longest nails in the World's nail longest hair.

2:33 Giants.

2:34 I love giants. I had no idea. Robert Wildlow was in the Guinness Book of World Records. He's the tallest man I think the tall zone from America. Yeah, he was. I was gonna say seven foot twelve.

2:50 And this is my favorite murder podcast.

2:51 Hello, now you know it's really us. That was like the pin number of proving that it's us by me saying Robert Wildlow was seven foot twelve.

2:58 I'll tell you my brass story.

3:00 And when I was in elementary school, like I've had flattest chest forever right.

3:06 In the in the Guinness Book. Yes, as a matter of fact.

3:10 No, but when I was little, I had like no boobies like most kids do. But like sixth grade when girls start to get their boobies, and so everyone was sitting around talking about like what brass size they have now, and someone was like, I have a thirty four A and I have this that, and I went, well, I have a thirty five A because they were like, that's not I was so embarrassing. Yeah, you were just trying to compete. I was just trying to get in there there. Yeah, when you just look at my anyways.

3:36 But now I just remind you every girl in that circle did the exact same thing at a different period of time. Yes, and that's what no one ever talks about. And sometimes that's why people are so mean, is because people were mean to them when it happened to them. So then when someone else does it, they descend like fucking.

3:54 And they're so happy it's on someone They attentions on someone else and not them.

3:58 That's what it's all about. Yeah, do you know what this?

4:00 This is the reason and I wish I had had this when I was done, is how to laugh at yourself?

4:04 Can that? Just?

4:05 No one can fucking make fun of you if you're like, oh my god, I can't believe I said that stupid thing.

4:10 Yes, it doesn't affect you, but.

4:11 I think when you're at that age, like you can't laugh at yourself until you're around thirty seven. Well, in my.

4:17 Experience, that's how old I am. Well, congratulations, I think you are now laughing at myself.

4:21 It's going to be so much fun.

4:22 Oh my god, I can't wait.

4:25 But the thing is, you have to drink twelve bottles of wine a day. You have to day party. That shit.

4:30 I got about three more bottles to go today and then go, let's get you there, go there. I just love that people have these interests giants for you that like you would never think of as a thing that you're really into.

4:45 Have you ever heard of Anna Swan, the giantess of Nova Scotia, And of course not, I'm a normal person. She's humongous. She's humongous and amazing looking, and she married a giant, so they were they were traveling circus people because they were both huge them and there look her up, because there's pictures where there are people standing in front of her looking up and she's like two grown men standing on each other in a hiding an address to get into the movies addresses anazon. But I love her because apparently people she got constant marriage proposals. Oh my god, that's like part of her story where I'm just like, what, where's this world?

5:23 Yeah?

5:24 I want to go to that world. I want to be a giant. Yeah that's fucking cool. It's the best.

5:28 I'm sorry, I didn't mean to go back to giants. No, I want that's all I wanted to talk about this whole time. Is your obsessional giants. I really do love when people have this thing that they know all about and are obsessed with. Yeah, it's pretty cool. It's so cool. Hey, this is my favorite part of the podcast. That's Karen kil Gariff. I'm Georgia Hardstark. That's right, Okay, I have a couple of things this week to talk about.

5:48 Now we're really being serious.

5:49 Before we start the murder this all right? Everyone could stop telling us to listen to Dirty John. Yes, it's a new podcast, it's happening. I've listened to an episode and a half. Here's the two problems I have with it. One Vince found out the ending and.

6:04 Told me for some reason, but I did think.

6:07 I'm not gonna listen, just tell me, and he told me, Oh, then that's your fault. It's totally my fault. And then the other thing is the women, the daughters who are being interviewed in the podcast. They're from Irvine, which is where I'm from, and sound like every girl I went to high school with. And it's giving me fucking PTSD.

6:23 That's a serious problem. Yeah, yeah, you don't want that in your head.

6:26 I don't.

6:27 But it's a good story and I'm excited to listen. I mean people are going crazy about it. Yeah, it reminds me of s Town a little bit, so I'm listen. I got my heart broken by s Town. So dear John, I mean, I'm going to need.

6:40 You to Dear John that you mean the jud Hirsh series. Yes, people get obsessed. And here's what I love. I sit back when those things hit and I just let him go. I let everything wash over, and then I watch how the first wave is everyone going, this is amazing. You have to listen to. The second wave is always it wasn't that good?

7:02 Ye?

7:03 Or it sucked. That's who I am, right, And then then I wait a little bit longer, and then they'll always be someone that's like, no, here's what, here's the situation, right, nothing's perfect, but it's like but it gets you here and you'll like it because of this, and it's this and it's interesting or whatever. I think.

7:18 It's just it's a different that's such a it's such a specific story that it's not going to appeal to everyone. So them saying everyone's obsessed with it, where it's like, no, some people aren't that into like, you know, fraud stories or whatever. Okay, the other thing. And then Stephen sent us this like a couple news links that some new photos from Jonestown came out, Oh right, and it's from when they're in uh Ghana, right, and it's it's basically photos that look like I think this is what most of them are like from a brochure.

7:52 It's propaganda, like trying to get people to move to Jonestown.

7:55 Yeah, look how happy everyone is. They're smiling, they're working, they're living on a commune, you know, and look how great everyone looks. All the you know, there's no sisting his race here and everyone works and everyone loves it and the children are learning.

8:07 But it's all fake.

8:08 And then there's like one photo of there's a couple photos from the day they all killed themselves.

8:15 Oh he killed them, Yeah, he killed them right.

8:18 And it's just fucked up. So gear into that shit, like I am some new pictures.

8:23 Sorry, I had an update, no please, And this one lots of people have been sending and uh, I appreciate it. We actually talked about it at La Podfast. But the journalist Kim Wall that I did that story about that the guy built Peter Manson who built his own submarine, and then she.

8:42 Was a journalist who went to do the story about it. She wrote around in this harbor with him, and then she ended up disappearing. He said that she hit her head and that he dumped her body at sea, and then her a bag of her body parts were found floating in the ocean, including her decapitated head with no injuries on it, which means she did not hit her head.

9:04 And now Peter Matson is being looked into for unsolved.

9:09 Murders in Norway and Sweden. I didn't know that. Yeah, that's brand new, that's a story on ap from ten hours.

9:18 Oh my god, that's fucking I love one. I mean, I don't love one, you know what I mean?

9:23 Well, just that this is developing.

9:25 This is unlike so many things where we're like and then we just never hear about it again.

9:30 This is still a developing story. And I think it's because so many journalists loved her and she was a well respected journalist, and there's not a lot of murders there. It seems like when Norway and Sweden or wherever this this was Denmark, I think right, listen, look, listen, there's another show that's out. It's Mike Judge's Tales from the Tour Bus. And this is completely off of any topic of true crime or anything. This is purely a joy thing Mike Judge is making and it is people who toured worked for, had anything to do with country singers of the past, telling stories about working with them. So the first show, yes, exactly, well, just in general, the first episode is Johnny Paycheck, who is the guy that

10:18 wrote Take this job and shove it. Oh, and it's amazing the guy was in he was a lunatic.

10:23 It's animated for the most part, with old footage as well. Yeah, it's yes, exactly, so they'll show you pictures.

10:29 Of the album covers and some real things, but then most of it is animation and it's all these band members, hairdressers, relatives. It's so great stories. So there's so far they've done Johnny Paycheck, George Jones and Tammy Wynett and Jerry.

10:45 Lee Lewis, which is crazy fucking married his child cousin.

10:50 That's right, she was fourteen. She's on it. She talked up. Yeah, I need to watch that. She's it's like she's in her sixties.

10:57 I just remember as a kid, Great Balls of Fire that movie about the biopic movie.

11:02 Sure kind of thing. I loved it. We went and saw it at the movie theater. It was so great, it was so much fun. I loved it. It was pedophile. Why were they letting me watch it? Parents? Well, it was a different time, and that's why we're trying to make America great again.

11:16 Can I tell you what I did watch the Oh? Sorry, that's okay, speaking of pedophile? Well, I did watch the other day, and I hadn't realized how long ago it had been since I watched it.

11:27 Was Silence at the Lambs.

11:29 I've seen the ending a million times, but I hadn't actually.

11:31 Watched the first part of it. It's so good. I want to cry. Gather Martin if I you're safe.

11:38 I didn't understand any of it back then.

11:40 You know what I mean. You mean when you first watched it.

11:42 Yeah, like I didn't understand how she figured out, how he knew who Buffalo Bill.

11:48 Was, and how this and how that?

11:49 Because you know why, I looked up what year it came out, and I saw it in the theater and have seen it a million times. I was eleven years old. Oh shit, when I watched buff or watched Signs of the Lambs in the fucking theater.

11:59 That's hilarious. She threw a come at her face.

12:02 Yes he did, and I was like, what was that, Georgia the idea that I didn't know? How could they let me watch that? No wonder, I have a fucking true crime obsession.

12:13 It's true. That's so funny because you were eleven watching that down in Irvine. I was twenty one in Sacramento and Kindred Spear watched it at the Tower Theater and I remember this thing rolling out in front of me, and I had already read the book and I was watching it every second of it. I was just like, this is the most member. This is the best movie.

12:32 Like I was losing my mind so happy. It was my Star Wars.

12:37 Emily was my Star Wars thing because I was like a hipster nineteen year I'm like, I love her.

12:41 I want to be her. That movie's amazing. That movie holds up.

12:44 Oh for sure, so charming. Yeah, Sounds of the Lambs. Thanks mom and dad, You've ruined me. Now look at me. I'm the best.

12:54 I pick loving myself over photos, do it.

12:58 I'm trying. It's just that I had a really good day of loving myself up until I opened Twitter and saw this picture where I'm like, am I in denial that I'm going bald and just not seeing it? What the fuck happened? And then I'm like, oh, that's right, it's my gray roots. Yeah.

13:13 Fuck it, fuck everything, fuck it, suck the world, yeah, fuck it.

13:19 I mean look, listen, my friend Molly said on the phone the other day. She was like, I mean the bomb's going to drop right, Oh yeah, let's do this thing she was talking about, like I was flirting with a barista or something like that.

13:33 And then it was just like, oh my god, you're so right. Nothing matters. We're on o'clock here, people, Nothing matters. But water is currency. Water's currency.

13:43 Let's have some peak experiences before things go to shit, you know what I mean?

13:47 Experiences sound like someone something someone on their way to burning Man would.

13:51 Say, totally, we're about to have a peak experience. Let's try to get out there every day. And if your peak experience is drinking nine bottles of wine, do it.

14:02 My peak experience is staying at home and chilling out and watching Oh I paid Oh my god, okay, last thing, I swear to God. Vince was gone all week out of town, so I was like, gonna be my fucking natural self, which turns out the most disgusting that person. Like the sheets had been taken off before we left, and I didn't ever put sheets on my bed. Oh, I just slept on the random sheets I threw on top of.

14:28 So you were kind of squatting in your own house. I was squatting. I'm gross. It was terrible.

14:32 And then one night I was like, I'm staying home and drinking whiskey and I want to watch Cold Case Files. And then I get a text from Vince saying you're watching Cold Case Files. And I realized it was because I had just spent twenty dollars on season one of Cold Case Files on our Amazon and its under his name, and so it emailed him to let him know that his wife just spent twenty dollars to watch season one a Cold Case File.

14:56 It was a show that probably if you put it into your DVR, it would bring up twenty nine episodes if you put it. If you go to YouTube, it's like here's everything for free, and you're like, no, I'm gonna pay premium.

15:06 No, I want Bill Curtis to have that money.

15:08 I think he needs more brown leather jackets, and I'm going to be the one that buys them.

15:11 You know what I owe him.

15:13 He has narrated our lives.

15:15 He's narrated my life.

15:17 He has brought a somber and reasonable attitude so terrible terrible murders and crimes, yep. And he's been there for us. Thank you, Bill. I mean he let us know that justice was right around the corner. Oh my god, I love Cold Case Fells.

15:35 Okay, he was he the host of Cool. You know it's where Danny Glover was originally the host.

15:41 No, what the fuck? Excuse me?

15:44 Swear to God except fact check that Stephen like swear to almost I think, but you know it's going to be some actor that's like super similar.

15:51 But I can never remember who's whom?

15:53 Yes, who's sum though? You do remember to say home. I mean, I'm not that stupid. Uh oh, I should say this. The Northern California wildfires are intense and crazy, and huge swaths of where I grew up is burning down.

16:09 I am obsessed with those photos, which is terrible, but in a fucking the comparative.

16:14 Ones of the neighborhood and then the neighbors just like.

16:16 The thought of your house being turned a fucking ash.

16:20 Yeah, and those people, the people that it's like, there's a neighborhood slightly north of the main city of Santa Rosa. But Santa Rosa is the next city up from Petaloma. That's where we used to go to the mall. To get close for school, you had to go to the next city. Yep, And the neighborhood it's like a little bit north of that of the main city. The people were woken up at one thirty in the morning with people just saying run. They didn't get any kind of emergency, Like it was just panic, grab whatever you could and run out of your house as you're as like the flames were coming.

16:55 Do you ever think about, like, aside from pets obviously, why you would grab Yeah.

17:00 It's pictures, I think mostly like my computer. That's the good thing is my sister started packing tonight just in case because there's still more fires and everybody now just wants to be ready. But we were like everything's on the computer, Like pictures are now on computers, Like there's a.

17:16 Couples but like, I love my shit, but it's all just choch keys.

17:20 It's all. That's what I said to my sister. I go, we can replace anything in your house, grab anything that's irreplaceable if you can. Yeah, I guess there's a photo album. I don't know. Whatever. Yeah, you guys, stay safe, and we are back into twenty twenty six. My god, we're just talking about a brand new podcast called Dirty John. Ugh.

17:47 I can't imagine how been spoiled that for me? Like, how did he know about it? Had he already known about this story?

17:54 I doubt it. I'm the true crime one in the family. I don't know, but do he just had the instincts where he's just like, yeah, it's that guy. That guy's no good.

18:03 Definitely speaking of being that guy no good, Gerard dep Bardeu is just like a fucking trash monster.

18:08 It turns out, yeah, that didn't all pay. It's so weird having a show this long. You can literally look back for like ten almost ten years before and be like, yeah, that didn't that actually didn't pan out so well, that that didn't age.

18:23 Us talking about Gerard upper dude, No, it did not him us.

18:27 Nobody's getting out of here live. I'm telling you that right now. Danny Glover.

18:31 No way, No, Danny Glover has nothing to do with Cold Case Files. What the where did I get that from? That would be great, though, Can I suggest it?

18:38 I mean, I think you were thinking of a different show and a different host, But that was what it was like back then.

18:43 I'm saying that we just didn't know anything and it was and that's okay.

18:48 We really were like, oh well whatever, throw it out there.

18:52 Steven, keep recording because this is this is brilliant information that they need to.

18:57 Still very funny. Also, sorry, anybody's gonna call me a late comer to this whole giants trend apples.

19:04 I was crazy, how hilarious just talking about it.

19:08 But I was like, you liked I didn't know you liked giants? What? That's right? We can't remember everything from ten years ago. That's hilarious.

19:17 It's actually perfect timing because MFM Animated's newest episode is literally called Karen Loves Giants.

19:25 I won't drop it.

19:27 It's on our YouTube page at YouTube dot com slash exactly right, Media, Well you shouldn't because it's new information for me every couple of years.

19:34 Yeah, that's well, it's good to update other people about our little our little preferences and our peccadios. Sure is it peccadios. I was just thinking, imagine if they came out with an Italian giant, I'd lose my mind. They came out just like there's a line, there's just a fucking apple comes out with an Italian giant that you can have.

19:58 If you know an Italian giant, please email us at my favorite.

20:01 I'm sure there's one out there already.

20:03 If they may be, they make up at every flavor, right, It's like, there's got.

20:07 To be someone do something about my needs being met. I have other stuff to do, and I can't do it for myself.

20:13 It explains a twelve foot tall skeleton now though, like really well, yeah, you know it's all been in there. Yeah, just waiting. I like miniatures and you like enormous things.

20:25 Opposite s Ease, We're going to get into this episode now, and we absolutely should because oh man, I can remember you telling me this episode and the information that you were giving about the real story behind the Amityville horror murders. Are you first, Turm my first? I think it's you.

20:48 I think it's me too.

20:50 Oh yeah, yeah yeah, are we counting that? Yeah?

20:56 We're counting what happens to us. We're counting what we decide. Yeah, and I'm gonna go first. All right, have a peak experience with this one. All right, it's October, everyone's favorite month. It's fucking Halloween time. Listen, let's do this.

21:12 It's like you're giving me a sales pitch in a voice that says, I'm not interested, I'm not interested in working with you.

21:18 Well, I did this murder because I wanted to do it, and then I realized I could fucking tag it on to the fact that it's Halloween time. Oh yeah, but it's very loose. Okay, so I don't I'm not I'm not married to it, you know what I mean?

21:32 Got it?

21:32 And I also watched this.

21:34 The way I actually did think of doing this is I watched this movie on Netflix, like a Netflix movie that I had heard nothing about, called Little Evil that ended up being so fucking good.

21:44 Oh good.

21:44 It's basically If the kid from like if Satan's spawn, the spawn of Satan had a mother, and the mother was Evangeline Lily, and she married a man who became the spawn of Satan stepdad, and it is Adam Scott. Oh and it's so charming and so cute and funny. I don't know how this just like went under the radar, and Bridget Everett is like his sidekick. Wow, it's such a charming movie. So it's like it's it's like comedy.

22:16 It's a dark comedy. That's awesome. It's so good, so please go watch it. And then I thought, oh, that's fun. So here it is. Here's the story, the real story behind the Amityville Horror.

22:30 Yes, are you ready for this? Okay, just really quick. And I know I've said this a thousand times. The hardback cup the hardback book of the Amityville Horror. So it was shaped like a paperback, but it had a hard white cover. Huh was the book in my grammar school library that I checked out so many times?

22:50 Sister reader Rose got mad at me. I forgot that it was that book. And now I feel like I've stolen a murder from you.

22:56 You have not, okay, And I celebrate this, and I'm okay.

23:00 I want to tell baby Karen, a little Karen about this story.

23:04 Well she's right here.

23:06 Well I'm gonna tell her right, No, I don't want you to.

23:08 That's what she's like all right.

23:11 So, of course everyone knows about the Amityville Horror the movie. It's this haunted house that's like, uh, you know, inhabited by Satan and all this bullshit.

23:23 But I don't know.

23:24 People maybe don't know that it's actually based on an actual story that happened before the haunting.

23:30 That's right. It's a huge fan of the book, me and sister Rita Rose. What I loved about the book was the fact or this story, whether or not it's true. Is It starts out as, oh, they find out this horrible thing happened in their house, but then they find out that there's something else going on, so they but that could completely be for like the book and movie.

23:50 Who knows if that part tell you, I'll fucking tell.

23:52 You, sweet Yeah, here we go. Yeah, all right.

23:55 So the family, the Dafeo family. They consist of Ronald Fao Senior is forty four and his wife Louise forty two. Ronald is a car salesman at the family dealership. Super fucking successful mob tize maybe probably pretty much, definitely, I mean, don't all Italians have mob ties?

24:14 Oh my god, she just defended a quarter of our How dare you so?

24:22 The random fucking.

24:26 Car dealership is doing so well in Brooklyn that the Dafeo family is able to move from their apartment in Brooklyn to a three story colonial in the charming town of Amityville on Long Island, about an hour outside.

24:38 Of the city.

24:40 Do the whole thing in that voice, Okay, I was trying to be a real estate agent.

24:46 Oh that's fun. Yeah, that's why you put that neckerchief on and bake some cookie. Yep, all right. They chose this home.

24:55 And as you saw on the cover of the Amityville book, it's a piece of America, two stories plus an addict.

25:02 It's huge and sprawling.

25:03 There's a boat house right on the Ambyville River, and out front they put a sign post that says high Hopes, basically naming the house. So it's this gorgeous, huge colonial house that has eyes. It has it looks like it has eyes because it has these two windows up in the attic that look like eyes.

25:23 Yeah.

25:25 So the oldest of the Dafayo children is Ronald Butch Dafayo Junior. He's born on September twenty sixth, nineteen fifty one. Ronald Senior, the dad, is a dominary man. He would fucking pick fights with his wife and children. He was physically abusive, and the target of a lot of this abuse was Ronald Junior. I'm gonna call him Butch, partly because he was the eldest, so there's a lot of expectations on him.

25:50 And it's said that he would beat the shit out of him.

25:52 You'd throw him against a wall and hit his head, So there's the head injury aspect.

25:56 Oh y'all know and love.

25:58 So as Butch gets older, he starts fighting back, and he's also known as a bully at school.

26:05 He's just like angry, mean kid.

26:09 And just get bullied. Bullies are bullies because they've been bullied exactly.

26:14 So the parents they try to take him to Butcher, to a psych psychiatrist. He fucking refuses to go, and so instead they're like, let's just appease and placate him, and they start buying him anything he wanted and giving him money.

26:30 Like, if that's their solution, I bet it worked, right.

26:33 I mean, you know what, the only way we would know if someone would do it to us, that's really should.

26:37 Try it, That's all I'm saying.

26:39 What a bizarre plan. I mean like because I understand that they were rich, but yeah, that I feel like, never in the history of man has that work. Clearly it's never worked up.

26:50 But I understand, especially back in the seventies, it's like, well, here's what we'll do. If he's never unhappy, he's never going to get mad, right, you know, right, And so they start buying him a bunch of shit, including a fourteen thousand dollars speedboat when he was fifteen. Fourteen thousand dollars today would buy you a nice car back then.

27:11 Can you imagine this? Okay, so these people something happen and they're swimming in money.

27:17 Why would then own the Sun's owner of a card dealership in Brooklyn have that much fucking money?

27:25 I mean quality salesman. Just he's really friendly, and he's got a couple pinky rings, not just one like normal car salesman, but a couple.

27:33 Well that's the other thing too, is he looks like Tony Soprano. Yeah, he's got that big, bulky, you know, intimidating presence. He's kind of you know, he speaks like a long islander, the word which I will refuse to do.

27:48 Hey, the parkways over buy my pocketbook. It's a love of that kind. Why is there a parkway by his pocketbook? It's those are the two words that remind me of Long Island because my friend Vicki. I used to work with my friend Vicky, who is from Long Island, and those are the first like two things I heard her say on like one of the first days that we worked at Ellen together, where I was like, where are you from. There's no such thing as a parkway out here? Yeah?

28:11 And pocketbooks, wallets stop it, calm down. She also used always say food shopping.

28:16 I'm going to go food shopping where I'm like, that's just shopping, you know, I don't care you have to specify.

28:22 Yeah, no, we get it. It doesn't matter.

28:25 Had I just got my food shopping done.

28:26 How about you, I just went shopping for food.

28:29 How about you don't tell me about your fucking errands? Just how about we all do it? Listen? I love you Italians, Vicki.

28:37 And Long Islanders.

28:38 Vicky aren'ts apologies.

28:40 And advance Boo boo boo bah okay.

28:45 Of course, not surprisingly, it only made things worse, and by seventeen Butch had become an LSD and heroin user. Oh, which is like heroin in the seventies. Crazy, right, that's.

28:58 When it was really organic, just a gorgeous golden brown. It was like a pure trip. It was more of it was what the Native Americans did around that area. It was like a peace pipe it with heroin injected into your arm. I do feel like though, people were so naive about drugs in the seventies. Like my friend Darry had a story about doing I think they called it window pane, which is that intense acid from the seventies.

29:23 Now.

29:23 She said they were tripping for days now. Every day they saw the whole world in a different color. So the first day it was red and the second day was purple.

29:32 And I was like, cool, but I don't want that sounds it makes me sick to my stomach.

29:36 Now, I was thinking that to it, it's just like won't ever end? And that was just like because they walked home from school and a guy was like, hey, do you want to buy this acid?

29:44 Oh?

29:44 He loved it. He loved making them trip that hard.

29:46 Oh fuck that crazy? Okay.

29:49 I ate crayons as a joke once when I was on LSD. Let's not talk about it. My friend and I were like, let's chew these crayons up and see what happens when we split them out.

30:00 Be really pretty?

30:01 Oh my god, cut this immediately?

30:02 Was it pretty? It was gorcious. I wore a vinyl dress to my own Christmas party and I was answering the door and people were like, are you okay? And then I realized it was because my I was so cold my lips were blue. But I was like, this outfit is amazing. I look like I'm from Space hosting a party on acid. Not a good idea never ever.

30:22 Don't do drugs, okay, don't do drugs. Everybody expelled from school as well. So at eighteen, he's a fell control and they're like, you know what, you know, we'll fix him. Let's give him a job at the family car dealership. Yes, let's do that. There it is.

30:34 Let's not give him a lot of responsibilities and let's give him a large salary.

30:38 Boom, Sorry, you're reading me the Donald Trump story. What's happening? Ooh ooh political? You better be careful. I liked them till they got political. Fucking mom. Okay, so he is the boss's son, asshole that's coming in on a full salary, but does not have to do anything.

30:57 The boss's son, and then the boss is his grandson. Oh, and he's just like pay me, motherfuckers.

31:05 How about you pay me? And he looks like he.

31:07 Looks and he's probably the original Brooklyn hipster. He looks like this Brooklyn hipster sideburns. What more do you need? Sideburns, beard, like seventies garb. But it's because it's in the seventies, right, you know what I mean. It's not just like fucking bedbug used outfits from a thrift store, right, It's the real deal.

31:27 It is real. So okay, b ba.

31:32 But he's he uses the money the salary he makes to buy guns, alcohol, and drugs and continues his shitty behavior, which included.

31:40 Runs with the lah blah blah blah. Okay.

31:42 Once, during a fight between his so, his mom and dad were fighting, meaning the dad was like fucking bulling the mom, Butch points a twelve gage shotgun at his father and pulls the trigger. The gun malfunctioned and didn't fucking shoot.

31:56 Oh my god.

31:57 So this guy's out of his mind.

32:00 So in the weeks before the murder, this thing happened where But it's nineteen seventy four, Butch is given the job of depositing more than twenty grand in from the car dealership to the bank. They're like, go to the bank, deposit this, use your boat, use your boat, which is like, why are you giving this kid that money? And not surprisingly, he reports that he had been robbed at gunpoint while he was waiting at a red light, but he had actually planned the mock robbery, and at first the dad seemed to believe it, but when the police showed up to question him, which is like, stick with your story, bro, he fucking loses his shit and is super pissed off and refuses to cooperate. And then so his dad realizes

32:38 something isn't right and he thinks his son is was up to it, and Butch threatens to kill him, so to kill the dad again.

32:48 Yeah.

32:49 Now a week later, cut to the early morning hours of November thirteenth, nineteen seventy four. The family is sleeping and Butch goes around with a shotgun. So the first shot he goes into his parents' room. They're sleeping on their stomachs. The first shot hits Ronald Sr. In the back, tearing through his kidney and exiting through his chest. He fired another round into his back and it pierces his father's spine and lodged in his neck.

33:21 He's dead.

33:22 Then he shoots his mother twice as well.

33:26 It shatters her ribcage, collapses her right lung, and physical evidence shows that Louis's mother was awake when she was shot, like she went to turn around to see what was going on. They're both on their stomachs when they're found. Then Butch goes into his sweet baby brother's rooms, Mark who's twelve, and John Matthew who's nine, and shoots them both while they're face down in their beds. And then he ends by shooting his sister's point blank versus Alison who's thirteen, and he shoots her in the face and then is young and she's killed instantly. And then he turns on his sister Dawn who's eighteen, and shoots her in the head, blowing off the left side of her face.

34:11 So fucking brutal with a shotgun. So just after three am, in a span of less than fifteen minutes, Ronald Butch Tafao Junior had brutally slain every member of his family. They were all found lying on their stomachs in bed, butch showers, trims his beard, gets dressed in jeans and work boots, and then he collects his bloody clothing and the rifle wraps my bone a pillowcase, and on his way to work, he disposes of the pillowcase and everything in it by tossing them into a strain, a straw warm drain. I spelled that wrong, tossing them into a storm drain.

34:48 And that's where the clown from It was waiting. That's the scariest like I've ever heard in my life.

34:53 White As you say that, well, that's what I think of when I think a storm drain. Totally that or that or JFK being killed because they arrested someone in a storm drain, not after it happened.

35:04 No, yeah, we'll get you know what, Maybe I'll do it one day.

35:07 Shit, I'd never heard that. Yeah, every time I walk George, my dog, she if we walk, there's a storm drain that we always walk by, and she always has to go and stick her head down in it. And every time I'm like, if that fucking clown from It is in there, I am going to lose it. She's gonna get her head chomped off by what a clown?

35:28 She loves it in there. So many smells, so many raccoons, Okay, then tosses in a storm drain. Then goes to work at the car dealership at six am.

35:41 Oh all by himself. Yeah.

35:44 Yeah, goes to work at the family car dealer, the family car dealership, and I think they were like, what are you doing here at six am?

35:51 It's weird anyway. It's like, you know me, butch how much I love working? Yeah, getting along with people. I want to get an early start. Come on, I got my boots on.

35:59 My jeans.

36:00 My beard is trimp So throughout the morning, he keeps saying like, I don't know why my dad's not here yet, so he keeps calling home. He leaves work around noon, and he spends the day with his friends, and to secure an alibi, he tells them that that he couldn't seem to reach anyone at home, to let them know that he's like trying, and hey, look, no one's answering.

36:20 Yeah.

36:21 He ends up at a bar real close in Amityville, real close to his house and then is like, hey, guys, I'm gonna go check on my family. It's so weird that I haven't heard from them. And then at six point thirty that night, he burst back into the bar and yells, you gotta help me. I think my mother and father are shot. So Butch in a small group of people from the bar went to the home and they found the whole family done in their beds.

36:46 When the detectives questioned Butch.

36:47 About who could be a suspect in the murders, he told them that he believed that a mafia hit man named Louis Fellini may have been responsible, and that his whole family was like in with the mob, and that they had wronged a Fellini family in some way and they were pissed off at him.

37:04 So he then gives them the alibi if I've been gone all day.

37:08 And when I left the house this morning, my whole family was I think they were still alive. So they the police take him into protective custody while they searched for the suspect. But when they searched the house, they found an empty box for a recently purchased thirty five caliber Marlin gunn it's for you gun people in Butch's room, and when the timeline came together. It placed Butch at home at the time of the homicides, not after he left, so when they question him, he begins to change the story.

37:42 He says that Felini had appeared at the house early that morning, put a revolver to his head, and dragged him from room to room as they murdered his family. Him and an accomplice murdered his family, making Butch watch. Then eventually, under questioning, he broke down and confessed to killing his family, saying, once I started, I just couldn't stop.

38:02 It went so fast. On trial, his defense lawyer, William Webber, tried to prove that he was insane, saying that he heard demonic voices that told m to kill's family, but the psychiatrists for the prosecution proved that he suffered from antisocial personality disorder, which doesn't mean you're crazy. The illness made him aware of his actions but motivated by a self centered attitude, and even at one point during the trial he threatened to kill both his own lawyer and the jug they put him on. They put him on the stand, and this dude is just like fucking crazy as shit.

38:40 Yeah, it seems like that's his solution to a lot of problems. Is I'll kill you Yeah, yeah, which really, you know, as we're learning, is a non solution. Yeah.

38:52 It's this thing of like people pretending to be crazy to get the verdict of insane. And it's like, no, you're just proving what a piece of shit you are. And you're also understanding that you need to plot this out, so it makes you look sane because you understand reasoning and plotting.

39:11 Yes, there's not the insanity part, isn't there. It's but you are clearly either a sociopath or just the most rotten spoiled child of all times. Like is that where spoiling children can get you? Yeah, because that should be a psa. All those kids that are fucking screaming out loud in restaurants, it's like, get a hold of it now, yeah, or you're going to go the route of the mister butch to fail.

39:35 Amen, or at least something close.

39:38 And it's or you're just annoying everyone else around you, and like I'm trying to eat in peace.

39:43 Yeah, just no screaming. How about the rule of no screaming, no screaming, and if your child is screaming, take them outside, or.

39:51 How about you glare at your child. No one wants you to hit them. No, but how about a good icy. My father used to stop us in our tracks with the look on his.

39:59 Face, Oh my god, let's keep gone too far.

40:02 Well, also, he was very large and intimidating, so I'm sure he only had to look at us we'd be like oh, and you just like ugh, yeah, sit exactly what it's not going? Well? Stop right now? Yeah? Love it.

40:14 So on November twenty first, nineteen seventy five, the jury finds Butch guilty on six counts of secondgree murder. He sentenced just six consecutive life sentences. But all these questions, and this is like one of the reasons why this murder is still big to this day and people still debate it when it's clear that he just this fucking crazy dude on acid and heroin who was a piece of shit, narcissistic asshole just killed his entire family. There are things that are weird that make people question what really happened and think that it didn't happen that way.

40:44 So one of them, which I totally understand and want to know the answers to is how did he shoot six people in four different rooms without any of them waking up or trying to escape. Yeah, and they're all they're all on their stomachs when they're shot.

40:58 So no one turned over to be like like what the fuck was that?

41:02 Like they were drugged. Well that's what I thought too.

41:05 Okay, no drugs in any other systems really period. Oh yeah, and no neighbors heard the rifle blasts at all.

41:12 And this is a fucking rifle. Yeah.

41:14 The defense experts conducted an experiment on the Marlin rifle and I found that it's report report or report report, report report, it's spelled report, guys.

41:27 Just a report.

41:28 Its noise was so loud that it could be heard almost a mile away.

41:33 It's a rifle.

41:34 Yeah, So how did none of the neighbors hear it? And you can see photos. They weren't that far away, the neighbors, they were like literally next door.

41:42 I mean he must have done I mean, like, then did he put rum in something? I mean like he must have affected.

41:48 Them in some way, right, But how did the neighbors not hear it either?

41:52 Oh? Oh, like silencer.

41:54 No, nothing, No, there's no silencer. There's no drugs in the system. Alcohol, I doubt it either.

42:00 Well, but I mean, could there be a silencer that they didn't find. I don't know. Yes, I'm putting it out.

42:06 I'm going to say, yes, I'm putting it up even though I don't know rightful silencer. It's probably satan, could be satan. Yeah, it is weird. Everybody's sleeping on their stomachs. Yeah, that's why isn't one person sleeping on their side? Right? And that's or did he you know there's this The obvious answer to me is that he went from room to room and was like, stay down, there's someone in the house, and like warn them that, like, don't move, I'm going to protect you.

42:32 Maybe, but then why wouldn't the dad get up? And then why because the neighbors hear.

42:37 The dad first, he went and killed the dad and the mom went into the kids room. I was like, you guys, stay in here, something's happening.

42:44 Oh that's fucked, okay.

42:46 Stay on your well why stay on your stomach, Stay on your stomach because I'm weird.

42:51 You know what? Else?

42:51 He could have walked in the room and they were sitting up and he said, lay down on your stomach and then shot them because he didn't want to see their faces when he killed them.

42:58 True, but he out one of his sisters in the face.

43:01 Maybe he was particularly hateful of that.

43:04 Maybe, which is it is a thing that they fought a lot to Don, the older sister who was eighteen.

43:09 Well, but then there's also the theory, Oh, sorry, are you doing more theories? Which one are you gonna do? And sarry that don was his co conspirator and she's shot people. Let's go to that one. Okay, let's go to the tapes. So years.

43:21 It wasn't until years later, though, that Ronnie changed his story again while he was in prison and said that his sister don was involved in the murders. Now, listen, ron Ronnie makes up so many stories that you just.

43:33 They're all bullshit. They're all bullshit. But here they are.

43:37 That she had actually planned the murders with him to kill their parents after they had a huge fight with them, but they had no plans to kill the siblings. And then so she went to kill the parents. And when he found out Ronnie found out that Donn had also killed the kids, she was so pissed off. He was so pissed off. She had wanted to eliminate them as witnesses.

44:00 Is that he wrestled the gun from her and shot her in the head himself. So the only person he was guilty of killing was this murderer, his sister.

44:10 I mean that sounds like absolute bullshit.

44:12 Fucking lately, Okay, Yeah, I mean, it's just it sucks that we can't get any information about what their home life is really like from anyone but de feo and secondhand, you know, boyfriends and friends saying what it was like.

44:26 But from all their accounts, it wasn't good. Yeah, so who knows.

44:30 He And then it was reported during the original police investigation that traces of gunpowder were found on Don's nightgown, indicating.

44:38 That she may have fired a weapon.

44:40 But I guess it's also proven that if someone shoots you at close range, you can get that as well.

44:45 Yeah.

44:45 Then he claims that his sister Don shot his father, then says their mother, distraught over that, shot Don and her three youngest kids, so that the mother that down killed the dad. The mother killed Dawn, Don and the other three youngest children, then shot herself. And then when when Butch found out, he flies into a rage and fired one bullet at his wounded mother who had just shot himself, so the only person he shot was the Like, it's just but all that happens way later, he said, he makes these stories up later.

45:26 No, no, I get it. Oh, I'm saying, like the reason that doesn't fly is because of the laying down on the stomach thing. Yeah, like, all you can't have that kind of chaos and then everyone end up in the same position.

45:37 I mean, it's just it's such a far fetched theory. It's stupid, Like to believe it is idiotic, especially with only the fucking testimony of a fucking crazy person who's trying to get himself away from it.

45:51 Any responsibility of what happened.

45:53 Yeah, it almost sounds like somebody he like, was sitting in jail board and he's maybe the listening if I just make up a story.

46:00 Totally totally so in nineteen seventy five, let's get to the fucking haunting shit real quick.

46:05 Also total bullshit in nineteen seventy five.

46:10 Now we're in a fight, Karen the Catholic, this is my favorite story. Okay, I can't say it's bullshit. I'm sorry, it's my favorite. I know, I want to believe it's so much too.

46:21 But the more I'm reading them where I'm like, I know and the movie when I was a kid scared the shit out of me.

46:26 I also looked up when that was made, and I was like, Nope.

46:28 Too young to have watched this, what like eighty two something crazy like that.

46:33 I don't know Stephen look it up because that wouldn't mean I was only two.

46:35 That's an jam Rolland movie right where he's a beard and he's like super nuts, a gorgeous movie. I keep going to that digital clock that it's like three, yeah, twelve or whatever time it was that.

46:45 Every fifteen or something, yeah, and he keeps waking up all right. So it's based on the fact that George and kafe Lutz they buy about a year after this, they buy the Dafeo House for eighty grand. They knew about the murder, but they were like, it's cool, we don't.

47:01 Believe in shit. Stephen seventy nine.

47:04 Then I wasn't born yet seventy nine, so I watched it in the womb. I I think I watched it on like a Friday night. Yeah, we're not going to be classics or whatever.

47:14 No, it's a because I remember watching it in my aunt's living room. And I wouldn't have watched it when I was nine. Yeah, and it was on TV.

47:22 We must have been home alone, turned it on, and then I wanted to kill myself. It was like a creature features thing. Yeah, you're just like, what's this?

47:29 Yeah? It terrified me. Remember the flies on the window, the flies in the window.

47:32 Wasn't there a scene where like all the they were standing outside of the house when they had left it, and all the lights were flicking on and off and all this.

47:38 Crazy shit was going on and side.

47:39 Yes, that scared me more than anything I ever had until I watched it.

47:43 Wow.

47:45 I mean, it's not that big of a deal. I was a scaredy cat as a kid. It's a very big deal, thank you. All right, Okay, So they buy the house, They're like, no big deal, it's a we got a good deal on it. So George and Kathy and there and Kathy's three kids from a different marriage moved in. That doesn't matter. Then weird shit starts happening.

48:05 Happening what it doesn't matter?

48:08 I mean, I didn't, it doesn't.

48:09 I don't need to specify that she had three kids from a different marriage. You know, it was just like it's fine, okay, Like I don't want to shame her, like she's oh, she's a divorcee with three kids.

48:19 You know, Like I don't know why.

48:21 I did that, Like I'm not judging her.

48:23 It seems like information you're trying to convey. I don't need to it's unnecessary. And it seems so they were born out of wedlock. No, they were born Listen, let me tell you about her life. Okay, she was a tramp. Okay, so they have a priest come to bless the house. He said he felt an unseen hand slap him yes in one of the rooms, and heard a voice saying.

48:50 Get out, get out.

48:55 They said that they had crazy things happen, like windows lock, windows, and doors would inexplicably and then open and close. A devilish creature was seen outside the window at night. George was seemingly quote possessed by an evil spirit, and green.

49:11 Slime oozed from the walls and ceiling the family. Uh.

49:16 There was apparitions of hooded figures, clouds of flies. I think I already said that cold chills, personality changes, sickly odors, objects moving about on their own and then the youngest LUTs child, the little girl, became friends with a devilish pig, an evil, demonic pig, imaginary friend called Jody.

49:37 Yep, Jody the pig.

49:41 Jody the pig, good old Jody the pig.

49:43 And then Kathy reports that she was often beaten and scratched by unseen hands, and that one night she was levitated off of her bed sit And then George says his wife was physically transformed into an old woman with the face and hair and wrinkles of a ninet year old woman. Which I'm like, that's insulting. Keep that to yourself, you know what I mean. Like convinces like you have too much makeup on. It's like, shut up, you know what I mean.

50:08 But it was demonic forces. It wasn't just like I fear you, I fear your old age in the future, okay.

50:16 And then you wake up at three fifteen every morning. Oh when the murders happened. So just twenty eight days after they moved in, they fled the house. They left all their clothes in the closets and food in the refrigerator. By the way, when they bought the house, it had all of the Dafeo's furniture still in it except for the mattresses where the kids were fucking murdered. No way, So what the fuck is wrong with you? People like redecorate?

50:37 Man? Like the real estate agent's like, you can buy this as is, Yes's and it's a bargain.

50:43 You know, that murder house in those feelings that's been fucking closed up forever.

50:48 Yeah, Like, can you imagine buying it? Be like, well, this is great than too furniture just leave it? Yeah? No, Well you'd have to really sage that thing. Yeah, you'd have to really clap those corners.

50:57 You have to light some sage and then light the house on fire with it and burn it to the fucking ground.

51:01 Go ahead and take that insurance check. Yeah, and buy yourself some mid century modern furniture.

51:06 Then figure your shit out.

51:07 Yeah and stop buy a mcmanson.

51:10 Umm.

51:11 Okay.

51:12 So they end up publishing the account of the hauntings in a book that was written by that they worked on with Jay Anson, called The Amityville Horror True Story, which Fell and Know and Love, published as nonfiction in nineteen seventy six, sold more than six million copies. Film version comes out huge box office success. The lets has become famous. They later admit it was a hoax. No, yeah, when concocted with the help of Butcher's defense lawyer William Webber, member him, who was like, no, he's crazy. He heard demonic voices. So they said it wasn't ghosts. They had all these fucking psychics and mediums come in. I was like, there's no ghosts here, it's demonic possession, which I believe in ghosts. Sure, fine, let's have it. But demonic possession

51:57 is fucking stupid. I don't know famous last words. So William Webber's angle was it.

52:04 Rather just turned her head all the way around vomited.

52:10 William Weber remember, was trying to say that is you basically using this account who by the way, they said that they came up with after a few bottles of wine.

52:19 Oh my god, I got the heart with the letzes that to like to prove that the house was possessed.

52:26 And so is Butcher and he was not responsible. Basically, yeah, that's why the family was killed. So Ronnie's still in prison. All of his appeals and requests to the parole board to date have been denied. And that's the Amityville Horror and the murder of the Dafeo families, it's so emily.

52:46 The question of how he got those that family killed in that manner is so vexing and so fascinating.

52:56 But which way that they're on their stomachs just.

52:58 That like, yeah, how do you take a rifle and shoot six people or five people and have people not here and have the people not wake up and have you know what I mean? Like that's the weirdest part. By the fifth person in the family, they've heard now four gunshops, and they know that their older brother is fucking crazy. Yeah.

53:17 Like that's the other thing too, especially Don who was eighteen and grew up with him. It's like they know their brother is crazy, and the whole town was like as soon as they found out what happened, was like, well, Butcher did it?

53:27 Like everyone fucking knew he was crazy.

53:29 Yeah. So but in the Amityville Horror book, they talk about this red room that's in the base mass and how it's filled with evil and all this stuff. And I was so fascinated by this. It's almost like they centralized where the evil was coming from. Yeah, and like people tried to go in there and they would get crazy headaches and all this weird shit would happen.

53:53 I was so fascinated by that. It doesn't exist. I'm sorry, it exists, Karen.

53:59 In your mind, Karen, it's six in your heart is so it's fine. I feel like at the heart of every story like that is people want to go like, oh my god, the devil has been here and there's flies on the sewing room window. But at the end of the day, the truth of it is a spoiled asshole drug addict killed his family, which is the thing people can't face because it's not a monster, And how.

54:25 Could someone kill children, right who had nothing to do.

54:29 Totally in any of this. It's like, so you'd rather be like the devil did exactly. Yeah, it's easier.

54:36 Yeah, oh honey, I'm sorry.

54:39 Oh what a story. I love it. I can't believe I didn't do that.

54:46 I know, I can't believe I did. I didn't even cross my mind that that was the story. I don't know why I was thinking of the omen as that story.

54:54 Oh yeah, because he's the he's this for you. That's like the mark the book you checked out. I totally forgot. Oh yeah, cool, but I mean, was it even worse that you can check that book out. It was so scary, it was horrifying. Oh my god, it was very detailed, and I mean the none that was mad at was the scariest part of all. Right, okay, we are back Georgia.

55:18 Are there any updates for this case? There are.

55:21 It's so crazy because literally this past weekend, I've been sick and so we've been watching, you know, old TV shows, and we watched In Search of the Amityville horror episode.

55:30 How was it? It's great.

55:31 It's like, I think it's so recent to when the quote hauntings happened, that he's in the house, Like, yes, Leonard Niewoy is in the house showing you around.

55:42 It's crazy. I have to look that up. I bet that whole series is so good to rewatched. Oh my god, it's excellent.

55:47 It's like like comforting, you know, like the Twilight Zone is kind of Yeah, But anyways, yes, there are updates. In twenty twenty one, Butch died in prison. He was sixty nine. He died of natural causes as far as we can tell, but no official cause of death has ever been made public. And in twenty nineteen, yet another film inspired by these murders, The Amityville Murders, was released.

56:09 I've never watched any of.

56:10 The actual movies about like based on this of you.

56:14 Yes, I watched that one from twenty nineteen in the theater, oh and enjoyed it, But it's all the rehash of the James Brolin original Amityville horror. Oh right, Yeah, I've seen that. It was a movie theater movie, or if it was a TV movie.

56:28 I think it was TV because there's no way my parents would have taken me to that. But I definitely fucking saw it and couldn't sleep saw because of it.

56:34 Yeah. Yes, so disturbing and so all those things where people are like waking up at twelve twelve and like freaking out. Okay, let's stop it.

56:43 Let's get into Karen's story about Neville Heath.

56:54 I did my usual thing where I was watching on Tuesday. I was watching true crime shows all day and then I'm like, well, I didn't do anything today, so I better pick one of these an episode of one of these things, and do my murder from one of these shows that I just watched. And actually a ton of people told me this, and I knew it, but I didn't realize they were saying. So there's a show called Murder Maps on Netflix and it's basically all these murders that have taken place in London or I think England generally, but mostly London, okay, And most of them are really old.

57:30 And it's such a good show. And the guy that's the narrator host I think his name is Nicholas Day, is so dramatic and awesome and it's just great. I love it. And so there was I'd already watched the first two seasons. So every time people would be like, you've got to watch Murder Maps, I'd be like, girl, I've been there and back. Well there was a season three and I didn't know. I think that's what people were trying to tell me. Yeah, I'm going to try to be a better listener. So that's what I was watching.

57:56 And so this is this is the story of devil Heath, the Lady Killer. So I'm gonna take you. Oh. Also, I just want to say, so it's this episode of Murder Maps. There's a guy that's one of the talking heads and his name is Neil Root and he wrote a book called Frenzy Colon, Heath, High and Christie, and it's basically about the three British serial killers that were caught after World War Two. And there John Christie. I can't remember if I did him or not, but he's that guy. I don't think I did. He's really fucked up.

58:31 I can't remember what the other guy is. And then the third guy is my guy for this and it's just fascinating because there was maybe the High guy is there was somebody that during World War Two, during like the Blitz, when London was getting the fuck bombed out of here him he was killing people or something like that.

58:51 They would find.

58:52 Bodies and they would assume, oh, this must be another thing from the bombing, another nicked up victim.

59:00 Thank you, trophy. It's been a long day. It's been a long day. Okay, So anyway, this is this is These were all really good stories, but this guy was especially interesting. So I'll give you a little history, as they do in murder maps to kind of set the scene. Yes, May eighth, nineteen forty six, it's victory victory in Europe day is what they called it. So finally world War two is over and England and London specifically have just gotten a shit beaten out of it. Oh yeah, it's pretty amazing how badly London was bombed and totally and made it.

59:40 If you go look at there's there's a lot of those photos of before and after.

59:44 Yeah, and it's insane. It's insane. And what I really loved, and that what this show is really good at doing is they started talking about how like how it affected the culture because so for like you know, over sixty basically all of the men left went off to fight war, all of the women took over their jobs. I never knew this, but in that time of all the like women had like hard labor jobs, and they were talking about it. In the setup of This and Women, what's the women built the Waterloo Bridge in London? And when the guy, when the narrator says that in the show, it cuts to this live black and white footage of all these women sitting in basically what looks like men's work gear, smoking cigarettes and like sitting on the bridge.

1:00:40 Ye as like taking a lunch break from building it, dude. And that's what happened, you know, as everybody knows, like all the men were gone, so women became truck drivers. Women worked in factories, made bombs, did all the went into the army themselves, like it's kind of amazing. So then when the war ended and all these soldiers came back, they thought they were just going to take their jobs again and like everything would be normal. But this culture shift had changed that was so radical where women were like, well, fuck you, we had to do it out of necessity, and now we're like, we can do it.

1:01:15 And also, why didn't you tell us pants were so comfortable?

1:01:17 Yeah?

1:01:18 How dare you keep pants from us for this long? Only the horse ladies got pants? That's bullshit. So so I think that's kind that part is very exciting, where it was like a woman's movement purely by necessity, where they were it's the modal we can do it thing where it's like not only can you do it, you're fully going to do it, and then you're going to want to keep doing it even though men are back and they're like, now I work at the factory and they're like, get the fuck out of here, buddy. They didn't do that, but it was a hard uh you know. Uh.

1:01:51 Of course soldiers had a hard time reacclimating in all ways, but then especially culturally because this was a world that they didn't live in before they left. Ye, women were just like, yeah, I'll take care of it.

1:02:01 And they're traumatized.

1:02:03 I mean, they'd seen horrible things and everyone was desensitized now that they had all lived through those who lived through this horrible time in life. They said that because you know, like true crime and crime has always been huge, especially in England and in I don't know if it's Georgian England. In like early eighteen hundreds England it was really popular. But after World War Two, people in you know, people who had watched their neighbors be blown up by bombs or lost their brothers and husbands and you know, boyfriends in the war, they'd all become incredibly desensitized, so they weren't people didn't shy away or like death and murder were not taboo anymore. They were very interested in

1:02:49 it because now it was like, it's not happening to me, that makes sense. So they're finally like, oh, I can read a story where it's not me with the bullet coming at me.

1:02:57 It's like this happens and it's not in the fucking battlefield and all that exactly.

1:03:01 It's like a huge almost a bigger relief. So that's kind of like the world they live in, one of the people. Oh and also this is just an interesting aside. And they had video of these guys, the true crime reporters of the time, from all of those major newspapers in London. They themselves became famous because the stories they reported were getting so popular. They called them the Murder Gang, and they were like reporter of the crime reporter from the Sun, the crime reporter from the you know whatever that all those newspapers are. It was kind of the beginning of British tabloid reporting and the true these true crime guys were like big time, the true crime Gang, the murder Gang. Oh that's what I meant. Yes, I

1:03:45 could feel that. So they were kind of like local stars. One of the guys that came back at this time was a manned named Neville Heath. Now he was not like all the Oh he was very good looking. He kind of looks like the actor Patrick Wilson, you know that guy. He's like blonde, kind of wavy hair, cleft chin.

1:04:09 He was in like Little Children, he was in he was in all the conjuring movies.

1:04:15 He plays that Yeah, he's great. This guy looks like that guy.

1:04:19 He is a tall, beautiful blonde man who had gone off and was in He had joined the Arif in nineteen thirty seven when he was still a teenager. But he had he came from like a nice middle class family. Always had problems with criminal behavior, always petty theft, doing little things here and there. When the war effort started, he was like, I want to be a pilot, and so he joined the Arif. But then he stole funds from the mess hall and he ended up going a wall because he didn't want to face it. And he kind of slowly developed into a man because he was he could talk his way out of anything. He got people like people kind of fell in love with him.

1:05:06 All the time, blonde people with fucking chin clefts.

1:05:10 A blonde with a chin cleft, and like, I bet you he had a very deep, soothing voice, like he was one of those people that just like never didn't have a good thing to say.

1:05:18 Watch out for those guys, Z watch it.

1:05:22 He also so he was he was doing all kinds of uh like he He was eventually caught from going a walt by trying to apply for credit by fraud.

1:05:35 So he was using all these aliases. He's like James Bond kind.

1:05:40 Of yeah, like a bad guy James Bond.

1:05:43 Okay, like one of a James Bond villain in the making, but good looking? Were there any Were there any James Bond villains that.

1:05:51 Were good looking?

1:05:52 Male?

1:05:53 I don't fucking know.

1:05:54 That's a different podcast. It's called James Bonding Demographic. Yeah, he called himself Major Rupert Brooke. He called himself Lord Dudley.

1:06:04 Of course he did Gilly. So he was trying to pull for credit in under these false names. Got caught. That's how he got arrested. He went to a borstal, which is I don't it's a jail, but I don't know why that's different than a normal jail.

1:06:21 Just feeds you air food, probably, I think, so that's what it is. It sounds like they send you to Russia. It sounds like there's like, hey on the ground in yourself. Oh that's a horse stall.

1:06:31 You're wait, why don't I click this live link and tell you that a bor staal is a type of youth detention center. So he was so young he was going to a youth detention he knew that I knew that. Don't knock like I didn't know that virgin.

1:06:44 We were testing you guys, you listeners.

1:06:45 But here's the problem. He flourished in jail.

1:06:49 He he he was a psychopath.

1:06:52 Test he's a full on Psychopathe flourished in jail. He flourished in jail. The got the governor of the jail and everbody's basically like the warden of the boys jail kept giving him leadership duties and eventually supported his application for the Air Force in nineteen thirty nine. It sounds like he.

1:07:11 Could have been a really successful person if he had just not been a dick, if.

1:07:15 He hadn't been a cheater, cheater pumpkin either. Happy Halloween, everybody. We are on theme. This is a themed episode. We are not evergreen. We are of the moment. He tried to re enlist in the Air Force. When the governor supported out for the application, the Air Force was like, no, thanks, criminal, will you tried this alrighty, pal, and you get that one shot. He joined the Royal Service Corps and he was stationed in the Middle East and over there. He did all this his same business like he had to keep doing it. The second he got there he pretended to be a man. Oh no, I'm sorry. When he in the Middle East, he got court martialed. He he basically stole, got court martialed, was sent home in disgrace,

1:08:03 and on the boat ride home he jumped off the boat. Like the boat docked in South Africa. He got off and bailed and escaped essentially and then started calling himself Captain Celway in South Africa and captain So fun so far, I mean, yeah, he had a good time with it. He had a limp and a monocle as Captain Selway, and our guy Neil Root was like he was just an actor like he was. He got super into these roles and he became the people. He's an adventurer, totally kills people until yeah, so let's see last my spot.

1:08:44 That's when you can't steal your bit that computer wise gets me.

1:08:50 Down on my spot. It helps, it really helps, thanks Stephen. He joins the South African Air Force under the name Lieutenant Colonel James Armstrong. Okay, which is kind of amazing. It's so long ago that you could join like a government agency and they'd be like, we haven't caught up to you yet. We don't worry.

1:09:12 You could be like, here's my title and I'm like, okay, great, there's no way to check this goodbye. Yeah, but it's like what was it written on a fucking napkin? Like it doesn't make sense. And he's just like, no, this is who I am and everybody trusts me. But it's like he's smooth talker. All you have to be as confident.

1:09:26 People fucking believe you.

1:09:27 If you're beautiful, the world is your oyster and that'd be nice. I mean, let's keep it positive. So uh so he flew missions as lieuten Colonel James Armstrong. But then finally they found out that he was this criminal guy.

1:09:50 And he couldn't pain Maybe he's like he was like into.

1:09:55 I get you know.

1:09:55 At the time, it was like World War two and it was like the Air Force pilots were these shit oh they were the hot hotties.

1:10:04 So he just wanted a slice of that. Amen. He got deported back to England. He arrived in January of nineteen forty six. He tried to go to the London School of Navigation because his idea is all be a commercial pilot, and he actually went studied there, worked really hard, tried, and then near the end they found out about all of his court martials and all his bullshit from the army and basically being a criminal, and they told him you will never be a commercial pilot and they kicked him out. So his family thinks like he's telling the story of like, oh, I was a pilot in the army and no, I'm going to be a commercial pilot and everybody don't worry about it. So now he can't tell them that he none of that's going to work

1:10:48 out because he can't keep his hands out of the till. So he lies to them, and then I think that's part of the pressure starts mounting. And what he ends up doing is drinking and going to dance halls all the time. Sounds like a blast, right and he and he's of course a huge womanizer because he's he's beautiful or good looking. Let's say he's he's no Paul Onions.

1:11:13 Can I just say really quickly, Vince told me a story the other day when we were on the plane on the way home from Australia and he saw that like Risamed, there was like a TV show with Risomed on the plane and he walked by in said ReSm Eds on TV, and you heard him say risameds and c one yes, lost your shit. Why did you guys tell me about that the minute we got off the plane.

1:11:37 I had no memory of that until you just said it right now, because he was walking by and just said it in that Vince way, like fast and kind of like yeah. And but the excitement he said it, like the look on his face was like Risamed's here. Yeah. And then I was like in my pod, all half asleep and weird, and I was just like, wait, want, it doesn't matter, it's not I mean, I'm not sure.

1:12:04 There are some people that would go and squat by their seat, like sat on his lap. I not only would not have sat on his lap. I would have had a mean look on my face in Casey saw me and been looking at the groundlands.

1:12:19 You know what kind of shitty friend I am, But like the best kind of friend is. I would have been like, let's walk by him, and then I would pushed you into him. Yeah, and you know so it looks like you bumped into him. You're the perfect wing man. I am such the wingman because you're going to work against all of my serious problems, which is the best way to flirt is to act like you're angry and walk away.

1:12:40 Women.

1:12:40 Let's not pandemic. I act like a human and speak to the person.

1:12:44 No so, moving on.

1:12:47 Somed ResMed is back in England. No so, uh Neville heath Is.

1:12:55 He's under pressure, he's a failed he's a failed pilot. He's not he's acting and can you know, hold himself to be this person? But he actually doesn't have any of the credit. But he's so, he's meeting a bunch of women. He takes a room at the Pembridge Court Hotel in notting Hill Gate, which is the street, the main street in notting Hill that one I did look up. Okay, notting Hill the film. That makes me crazy because why does he like her? Why? Why?

1:13:27 Why?

1:13:27 Anything? That's true too? Okay, So he actually checks into this hotel using his real name. He just added the fake title lieutenant colonel, but his real name is on the book. Does those even go together? I don't know. I certainly don't.

1:13:40 Can you be a lieutenant and a colonel?

1:13:42 I mean I would believe him because he did one of the things he got in trouble for when he was in the army was misusing uniforms and medals, which is like that stolen valor thing. I mean, he's just like, it's like, go be an actor in the theater. Yahool, that's what you want to do.

1:13:59 Yeah, can call the single lady, all the single ladies.

1:14:03 Okay. So when he's he's he has taken his hotel room. He's out at a bar one night and he meets a woman named Yvonne Simmons. He takes her out to dinner. He starts to romance her, and he's trying to get her to come back to the hotel room with her with him, and she won't go, and so he proposes to her, and so she's like, okay, I will no.

1:14:25 So she got Yvonne. She buys it. He I mean he sells it in a way that she can buy it. She goes and foughts him, and the next day she goes back home to Bainbridge, Bainsbridge where she lives I think, either with her parents or her parents also live there too. And now she thinks, oh, I'm I'm engaged, and and like I'm that's my found. This is an episode of down Town Abbey. I mean it really isn't this sad?

1:14:52 A sad dark down Nabbey would not be a bad idea? Yeah, what's it called? Downer to?

1:15:00 I was gonna say something else and that's matter.

1:15:02 Dinner to Abbey, Thank you so much.

1:15:04 It's just goth everyone's god place in the Middle Ages.

1:15:09 Bless you, blessed, don't you, Darren? If that outs to you, and don't fucking take a note. Oh leave it listening. We are real people. Oh my god, I have thoughts and feelings and sneezes.

1:15:21 Okay, okay. She goes back to Bainsbridge. Four nights later, uh Neville meets a woman named Marjorie Gardner. Now she's an artist. She's thirty two years old. She was married to a terrible alcoholic who she's separated from. She's from a middle class family, but she has led a what they call a bohemian lifestyle. And yes, exactly right, he where's pants exactly? She grew her hair along and put a scarf in it. Fuck her. She also, as they quote say in Murder Maps, they were like she enjoyed the freedoms. The new freedoms offered two women by the war, so basically pants sex, pants, pants sex, and cigarettes and if you want build a bridge, love can build a bridge.

1:16:10 So she meets Neville at a bar, same deal. He takes her out to dinner. Then they go to the Panama Club, which is some private club he belongs to, or so he says. They leave the Panama Club at twelfth twenty and they go back to room four at the Pembridge Court Hotel. The following day, the assistant manager enters the room because the maid can't get in, and so he comes up, opens the door and Marjorie Gardener's body is naked on the bed, covered to the neck with sheets. Her ankles are still bound. There's marks on her wrist to show that they were bound, but that the restraints had been cut. She had been gagged. There were seventeen lacerations on her body caused by a whip.

1:17:00 Oh my god, she'd been punched in the face at least twice. Oh my god, nipples savagely bit No, no, no, no, no, no, I know that's a bad one. She and also to me the worst one where she had been raped and then in an instrument had been inserted inside her vagina. So I think they said it was like a bottle opener.

1:17:22 It's horrible looking. Basically an incredibly brutal and savage attack on this woman. Is there a crime scene bottle of it? Uh, not that I looked, okay, not that I saw okay. But there's a very upsetting reenactment because the woman looks a lot like the picture they show the picture of Marjorie, and then this actress they got to play her looks almost exactly like her. So it's very real. It's so crazy that supposedly that was his first murder. Supposedly it's true.

1:17:53 It's not.

1:17:53 It can't be, like we all know that that's not your first murder.

1:17:57 If it's that, Yeah, there's a gap of time where he goes from I mean embezzer, I steal, I basically no rules apply to me, that early kind of psychopath shit of I want to get whatever I want, no matter what, and I don't care. But then it goes from there, and then there's all that time where who knows what he did.

1:18:16 He's in South Africa, he's in the Middle East, you know, yeah, he's he's breaking.

1:18:22 He's clearly he got you know, would you know discharged from the army for reasons that they're saying that they are these crimes, but who knows what the fuck they can be? Like, we don't want to, we don't want to advertise what else, or they just don't know. They just caught him for one thing, but he could be guilty of any fuck man. That's brutal. So the thing is uh, And ultimately they find she was suffocated with a pillow. That's how she actually died. This is nowhere to be found, obviously, since he's signed in under his own name. Note though, now he's on the run, and what.

1:18:58 Means he didn't wasn't premeditated? No, you know what I mean. That's a very good point.

1:19:04 Yeah, why would you, especially since he's so tricky and uses so many aliases everywhere in his life and goes so far is to pretend to have a limp and wear a monocle that why would he? Then here do fuck up?

1:19:16 Something pissed him off and he's snacks.

1:19:18 He snapped, he snapped, maybe who knows? Well. What he does do is takes the train to Bainbridge and goes to meet his brand new fiance, Yvonne's parents von So Yvonne. He's like, guess what I'm coming to visit like everything I said was real, I wasn't just super funny. Yeah. He goes to the parents golf club and has dinner with the family. Then they leave and they go out to another club for drinks, and he realizes he has to give her his explanation of what happened in that room because she was in the room with him. And then he knows the story is going to come out that Marjorie Gardner was murdered, so he tells Yvonne that he met a man who asked if he could borrow his Neville's hotel room key so he could go fuck

1:20:12 a lady, and Neville was like, sure, no problem, buddy, take my key and I'll just go walk around the streets whistling with my hands in my pockets all night. And then that basically that the murder was some other guy killing Marjorie and she was just the unlucky fella that.

1:20:30 Gave his key to one of the chances.

1:20:32 I mean, the ansoor in san.

1:20:35 The next day, the newspapers are filled with his picture.

1:20:39 And pleas to turn himself in, and so the family sees it. All these people see it. He writes the police a letter explaining to Marjorie, I mean so explaining that he'd let Marjorie the room key, he went out for the night, and then when he came back he found her dead body.

1:20:58 So he changes the story slightly to the police, which we all know is a red flag city.

1:21:03 You read flag city. And also apparently he wrote these letters all the time. The Neil rou guy talks about how Neville Heath would write letters all the time after he did stuff, kind of explaining what his deal was, and oftentimes it would lead people to go, that's okay, I understand now and let him off the hook. That's how he got out of things. And one of the theories is he had been doing these things for so long and getting away with it that he kind of thought he was untouchable and he didn't ever believe. He just didn't. He thought everyone would always believe him because they always did.

1:21:36 Because people want to believe pretty people. They do believe pretty people over fucking not pretty people. Absolutely, you get away with shit and people fucking get charmed by you.

1:21:47 It's charm. It's that thing of when a certain type of person looks at you and presents a thing like there are people who just know the power of their own face or their own voice, or their own but they don't know.

1:21:59 That's just what they're in life, right, Well, they think everyone gets treated like that and everyone can do this thing, right.

1:22:05 It's a it's quite a combination of like when you have a psychopath that's good looking.

1:22:10 Like you know, all doors are open, yeah, fucked, yeah, fucked, Hello the Devil.

1:22:16 So it's my new musical. So okay, He in this letter to the police tells them he's he found the whip that she was injured with and he was going to bring it with him when he came to talk to them. No, and then just and that's it. So they're like, okay, but they he's now operating under false names again, so he's still he isn't going back to the police, he's so he checks in on June twenty third, he checks into the Taller Royal Hotel in Bournemouth under the name the fake name group Captain Rupert Brooke. No, yeah, it always he always has to have two military names before the fake name. Okay. So and this is like about two weeks the murders happened. He's on the loose for two weeks essentially, and He's walking around Bournemouth and

1:23:16 he meets a woman named Doreen Marshall. She and her friend are also walking around. It's I think Bournemouth from what I remember, but this could be wrong, but I think it's a seaside town. That's from what I remember from murder Mouth. Let's fucking go with this. Steven's gonna tell me whether or not. I think I'm right though, but I think it's like it's like a little He got out of town. Basically, he went to the vacation spot.

1:23:36 I'm right, Okay, thank god, because I can't have British people angry at me. I can't because they're just stern. They won't yell at you. No, they'll just be disappointed and friendly, which I can't hate. I need Irish yelling or nothing. Okay, So he goes to Bournemouth to get out of town. He's walking around, but he is like voracious, he's they they call him. Eventually, they end up calling him the lady killer because he's just this womanizer that then, of course, is literally a lady killer. He means this scirl Dorian Marshall, and he won't leave her alone. He's like honor all day long. And at first she's into it, of course because it's the good looking army captain or whatever, the group captain.

1:24:16 And then she fucking senses he's a creep, yes, fucking gut feeling tingling, yes.

1:24:21 And also because he can't I think people like that, they can only keep that certain level of child going for so long. So once he's it's like if you're especially if you're not going with the direction he's trying to take you, then he started getting real pushy and real insistent, and in the hotel room, I mean in the hotel lobby, he was getting really pushy with her. Dorian. Yeah, And the night manager of the hotel actually saw it happen and saw her going into a panic about it.

1:24:55 And that night manager was the last person to see her alive. Oh no, so he saw some kind of weird exchange between the two of them, noticed how weird enough to notice, yeah, how unhappy she was, and made a note of it. So the next day, the manager of the Taller receives a call from the Norfolk Hotel, which is where Doreen was staying, like on a different side of town, and they called because she was last seen at that hotel getting into a cab to come to their hotel, and she never arrived and never came back.

1:25:29 And I guess the friend was like, that's what I'm assuming. The friend was like, you have it was like, we have to figure out where my friend went. And the staff at the Tall and were becoming very suspicious of group Captain Rupert Brooke because of all these things they were seeing him, you know, these vibes they were getting from him and the behavior. So finally the police, meanwhile putting all these things together, put together that Neville Heath and were Brook are the same person, and so uh he had he he said he was from some some like air force base in uh a place. It's a city in It's London. No, no, no, it's like Leicester. Okay, but I think it's Leicester. When have you ever cared?

1:26:29 I know? But suddenly I'm holding my hair about it. I know you are trouble.

1:26:33 It's because because it's probably like Leicester, Leicester, Leicester.

1:26:37 Yeah, that's probably what it is. Probably what it is. Yeah, Oh they're so mad. I can I can hear the tea spilling across this ocean. The police. It's the thing I said of coming back into the police realized Neville Heath and Rupert Brooks are the same person, and h Rupert Brookes sorry, And so they also find in his room a train ticket for during Marshall the whip with hair on it that was then traced to what's up with a whip? Marjorie Gardner? I know that's fucked.

1:27:11 That's like a really specific weird thing. Yes, but you had to have it on you, you know what I mean? So like you didn't just grab something and hit the person with it. You like had your whip, yes, you know, and like this is what you were into, right, which also then goes like did he snap or was this a build?

1:27:31 What did he? Yeah?

1:27:33 Or the thing of like he brought it out and she wasn't into it and so he attacked her.

1:27:38 It's like, no, he got off.

1:27:42 On well she's and Marjorie was tied up, so like was it fun times tied up and a look I have a whip?

1:27:51 Or was it like and then it all goes bad?

1:27:55 Okay, honey.

1:27:57 So a waitress walking her dog sees a strange swarm of flies down near the beach. So then later on when she sees the story of Marjorie Gardner's death in the paper. She grabs her dad and goes back down to that part of the beach to check out what the swarm of flies are, and there during Marshall's body is found nude, arms tied behind her back, stabbed to death.

1:28:26 I thought she was a vintage murdering. Now she was the a ridge a ridge murdering.

1:28:30 No, because she had to make that connection where she was like, I'm sure there was a weird smell too, if there was a swarm.

1:28:35 Of flies, but it's a bird or whatever the fuck that's right. But she was like, let's dad, let's make sure. And he's like, and she's smart enough to not go, I'm going to go make sure by myself. Yeah, she's like, hey, dad, father power.

1:28:51 Okay. So what he what Neville Heath had done when he was out of his hotel room, He went back by climbing up the outside of the hotel, up what they say call a builder's ladder on the side of the hotel, and he basically snuck into his own hotel room, probably because he was covered in blood and had shit all over him and a knife and all that stuff.

1:29:18 Because he had murdered drain.

1:29:21 But he then the next morning told the story in the lobby with other hotel residents as if it was I pulled this prank on like the doorman.

1:29:31 So he tried to make it. He was basically trying to establish this motive of I was doing this fun, funny, crazy thing with the doorman. That's what I was doing last night, and that's what you're gonna remember, dupid. So when the police questioned him, he claims that he blacked out. He'd has no memory of what happened during that night.

1:29:52 He says that he came to on the beach looking at his bloody hands, that he washed his hands in the sea and then walked back to the hotel. Oh, but what it turned out happened was he took her down to the beach, attacked her, murdered her there. And before he murdered her, he took off all his clothes so that one he was because he knew he would be covered in blood. So when he was done stabbing her to death, he went in, washed himself in the sea, and then came back out and put his clothes on.

1:30:24 How you know, he knew what he was doing exactly right, Yeah, not a snap in this situation anyway, and pre planned when you're like I want to murder somebody, but I don't want my clothes to get dirty. Fuck you dude, Yeah, okay, absolutely, fuck you dude. On September oh, then he disposed of the knife. The ultimate proof that you're not insane.

1:30:46 Sure.

1:30:47 September twenty fourth, nineteen forty six, the murder trial begins. His lawyers tried to claim insanity, and they they did it by revealing his previous crimes and then saying this is a progressive mania, then built to murder, and then the Neil Rout guy explains that you have to know what you're doing is wrong to cover it up, and that's the proof that it's not. You can't do if you If they can prove you tried to cover it up, then that proves you're not insane.

1:31:16 I love that rule, yeah, because it applies to so few actual murders.

1:31:23 Yes, yeah, and it's so clear. It's like it makes so much sense. So he was found guilty and he eventually was hanged for the murders. Holy shit. But up until the end, and this is kind of an amazing, like final moment for that show that I loved. Apparently the thing they used to do before they hung you was they gave you a shot of whiskey, really like a glass. You know, it's like they're going to give you dental surgery or they're going to hang you. You're right, so you kind of got like one quick thing before you went. And he said to the hangman, considering the circumstances, you might want to make it a double. Oh my god, like to the end, was this insane phony lunatic Because that's the coolest line I've ever heard. I mean, it

1:32:13 isn't bad. I'll say that is clearly a charmer. Yeah, the lady killer Neville Heath, we don't do that. We only do that live. I forgot, Oh my god, I.

1:32:28 Because I really buttoned it and I felt like you felt like you had to do. Yeah.

1:32:32 I was like, wow, shit tough. You say the title at the beginning and the end, Yeah, whoa Oh, but I am going to tonight in my car by Neil Root's book Frenzy. Because this story and then those other three, like the way all that information was coming out, we were like, this is why people.

1:32:53 It's like when that that explanation of people during World War two becoming desensitized to feet and horror and death. And then when the war's over, they still want to know the bad shit because they've already known the bad shit.

1:33:06 Distraction.

1:33:07 It's a distraction from your own woes, yes, And.

1:33:11 They were saying, like, for the soldiers, it's a celebration that it's not them. I think that's what it is for us today, you know, like we know these things can happen, and all this horrible shit can happen, and hearing about it makes it legitimizes it and makes it true, and we're aware of it, and we're not trying to fucking shelter ourselves from shit, because man, life's a Bitchlice a bitch, and we're so lucky.

1:33:36 We're so lucky. And there was there's another book that I'm reading that's about murder in like the early eighteen hundreds in England.

1:33:43 That's when they would put it out on the broadsheets and it was really popular.

1:33:47 There would be like a picture here, ye here, ye, yeah, they glue it up to a wall or whatever. Sure, and it's a I'll get the title of the book for next time. But in that the author was saying that it was. It's like sitting inside a house when there's a rain a thunderstorm outside, where you enjoy the rain drops on the window pane. That's exactly it, because you're inside in the warmth with protection, That's exactly it.

1:34:13 Or like when you're in an earthquake and you know it's not going to be that bad and you're just like, this is so fucking cool and fascinating.

1:34:20 Yeah, because there's boundaries.

1:34:23 Yeah, yeah, wow, Yeah, that's fucking cool.

1:34:31 Okay, we're back, Karen. Any updates on this epic World War II story.

1:34:36 No updates for that story specifically, But we did get this email from a listener in twenty seventeen, and it's written a very British person wrote this email, so please bear with me as I do this incorrectly. It just starts family dinners. You never know what exciting little tidbits will be disclosed during Toad in the Hole, and then wrote disease. It says we probably weren't actually eating that, but doesn't it sound so deliciously British of us just jump right in. It says, there, I was listening to stories about my cousin's new boyfriend Neville when my aunt pipes up with isn't it funny that his name is Neville?

1:35:11 I say why because of Nevill Longbottom and Harry Potter. I mean, how many other Nevill's do you know? And then she says no, because of your granddad's cousin, Neville Heath the serial killer. And then it says wait, excuse me, picture shock, followed by thoughts that this might be the best dinner ever, and then it just says SSDGM bye. Tarn.

1:35:33 Taren, I love like no info, no details, just letting us know that it's like, that's what we want.

1:35:39 Taren recaptured the moment where she heard the craziest piece of news of like, you're potentially related to this horror show that you just heard about.

1:35:47 And this is the only place this podcast where you can say that and people will go no way, Oh my god, why I.

1:35:54 Understand what you mean.

1:35:55 Oh all right, let's head back in for good things of the week.

1:36:02 One happy thing? Should we end on that?

1:36:05 Oh? Yeah, botox? Now can they can we pause? No, don't edit that out. But that's not my thing. I mean, it really is, just.

1:36:18 Oh I'll say one. Okay. We did the la Podfest last weekend. It was super fun. We did a great show with Casey RW where we got to the guest DJs, so fun. We did our own live show. I did the stand up show. It was like a hangout at the Biltmore and we got to meet all these listeners that came specifically to the podfast and people drove in from far away, people from Arizona. Remember the guy last year that we met at LA Podfest. His name was Joe and he gave us those La Corners office mugs. Yes, yes, I still have mine. Well, he came back again and gave us a travel mug and an apron also from the Corner's office. And I went, sorry, remind me, do you work at the Corner's office? He goes, no, I just love that they have a gift shop. And there

1:37:08 was just like we met so many cool people and actually got to like yeah for a second and talk to people. It was really nice.

1:37:16 It felt very much like a like we're all just chilling, yeah situation. It's very fun.

1:37:22 And those and I will say it for that stand up show, which I don't love doing anymore just because I don't work on it and whatever, but that was fun because it's an audience of people who really love and care about comedy for the most part for that podcast anyway, So it was like they were with you the entire time. Like it was. It was so fun to do a set like that because everyone had the best sense of you.

1:37:46 It's almost like they weren't waiting for you to make them laugh. They were like, let's all enjoy this.

1:37:51 Yeah, it's like how when we do ours where you already have the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, so everyone's ready to just go where you want to go, right, No, I love that. That's great. It was. Yeah, so thank you La podcast Dave, Anthony Grammel would Chris Mancini. It was super fun.

1:38:07 Yeah, it definitely was. Give me one second, what do I like about this world? It just can't also be like selfish, like what I don't know, because yours was very sweet and giving, like being alone. No, I think that's really good to you. Of course you can leave us a list part in So Vince was gone last week, missed him, love him. It's so quite and weird here without him. But God, there's something about being alone and just like watch whatever you want to watch and lots of farting and drinking, you know, drink having a drink and talking to your cats and like singing stupid songs.

1:38:51 And I just really enjoy that a lot. Yeah, in a way. That's like, doesn't mean I don't love Vince.

1:38:58 Oh, of course not. You know, no, no, no, I think it's it's almost like a resetting. Yeah, when you can just get a little I mean I've gone. You have to be careful though, because then after a while, like I think I have thin skin about it where I need now becoming that kind of person where like I need things to be a certain way because I'm so used to always only having things exactly where I want them, which isn't good.

1:39:21 Yeah.

1:39:21 But then when you meet someone you really like, you're like, oh, I like the way he does that stupid thing.

1:39:26 Yeah, that's true.

1:39:27 Now, It's like or I had some greeting or some like saying I saw a long time ago that said like, when you don't like someone, the way they eat pisses you off. When you like someone, they could spill food on you and you'd be so thrilled about it, like something like that, where it's just depends on the person.

1:39:46 Yeah, that's very true, but there's there is something very zen about just like being in silence or just kind of doing what you want and not always for so long, I really always had to have like three people around me at all.

1:39:59 Yeah, and just kind of knowing yourself too, and knowing what you would be like alone in your schedule, and like how you would fall asleep at night, which is apparently on a fucking naked bed with my fucking vintage comforter and no sheath and no sheets covering me. And you know, it's kind of cool to check beck in with yourself like that.

1:40:19 Yeah, I think that's really good. Yeah, and then move in scam home.

1:40:22 I was like, great, I gotta be a human again, and I actually have to shower.

1:40:27 Yeah, he's very strict about that stuff.

1:40:32 Yeah, being alone considerate considerate for a hot second, and we're back.

1:40:43 Okay, So we originally titled this episode Peak Experience, but.

1:40:47 If we were naming it today based on the episode that just happened, maybe we would call it.

1:40:52 We could call it swear to Almost, which was Georgia being almost positive that Danny Glover was the host of Cold Case Files. So instead is like swear to God that means I was right because I wasn't right. It was right for you to backtrack. That's right. Okay.

1:41:04 We could also call it Giants for you, because I love that you have that interest, Karen.

1:41:10 Giants for you. Of course, me and sister Rita Rose, who my foundational memory of am Daviel horrors with that old old nun who also taught my mother we've got insane phony lunatic love. Love that. And then of course Downerton Abby, Abby, that's the really dark, sad goth down to Abby. I still think that's a great idea. That's funny.

1:41:34 All right. Well let's have Elvis say goodbye back in the pod loft in twenty seventeen. All right, well, thanks for listening, stay sexy and don't get murdered. Bye bye, Elvis.

1:41:48 VI's your microphone, Elvis won a corn cookie?

1:41:53 Whoa hello? You just bleue noors on that one. Bye bye, Yeah, we heard you.