Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 95: Gesus

0:16 Hell, Hello, Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

0:21 This is that show where we recap our early episodes with case updates and hot take revisions and all the unlocked memories we can muster.

0:28 Today we're rewinding to episode ninety five, which we named Jesus, which doesn't sound funny, but it's with a G, so that's very clever of us.

0:39 It's a perfect reading joke for a podcast. This episode originally came out on November sixteenth, twenty seventeen.

0:46 Okay, let's get into the intro of episode ninety five Jesus.

0:54 Okay, let's get zen. Yeah, let's get real zen. Put your hands in prayer position and rub them together a little bit, just a little bit of friction. This is ASMR. Now that's right, and get ready for and throw the dice.

1:11 This is my favorite murder featuring Georgia Hartstark and featuring Karen Gilgera with.

1:17 A sidebar element of Stephen Ray Morris. Right over there on the ground there is where you expect him to be, and he always is. I'm cozy, He's cozy, he's there. I would never be cozy sitting in a position that Stephen. I've offered him a chair, can we can? We go ahead? And it's how he likes it. Yeah, he's like a yoga he must be.

1:37 Yeah, well he's fucking young and you can sit however you want when you're young.

1:40 That's thirty seven. I don't even know what it past that. He's very young as a young man. All the cartilage and his knees is still there. Nothing is broken. Hi, we're back from from our amazing leg of the tour down in Texas.

1:58 I knew that would be a special I knew that trip would be a special trip.

2:02 It was so good. I mean they all really are in their own way, and that sounds cheesy, but it really is true. And these ones were great. They were just so great. Yeah, in every way. I mean, why name them, right, but they just were many ways, so all the ways, there's so many ways, you can just imagine. Somebody did make me and I'm sorry, I don't know your name offhand, but it was the second night in Dallas and a woman came up and just handed me, if you're a beautiful silver box and inside she made a box full of moth cookies. So it was the box of moths that I fear, but in cookie form, which I don't fear, And I think it may have erased my phobia of getting a box of moths in the mail. It happened, and you were happy about it

2:48 that no one got hurt.

2:49 They were delicious cookies. Are you scared of getting dead moths in the mail? Or live mon live?

2:54 Like opening a box and having moths fly into.

2:56 My face, up in your face right, like silence of the lamb style? Yes, And it's is it the moths also? Or is it or gest or is it also the connotation of what would mean for one to take the time to send you a box of moths?

3:10 Yeah? How creepy specifically that would be, although I'm not exactly sure. Whenever we were talking about that, it just came out of my mouth, right and of this fucking podca. This is called like a journey into the subconscious that we never want to talk about again. Well, remember that.

3:26 So we were both we were in Dallas, and we met in the lobby of the hotel and when we were like leaving for the show, and we're both like, does someone knock on your door and hand you a present? And we were I had been freaked out because I got a knock on the doors, Like who the fuck is it? It was like the constant of like a whatever, a guy that worked, a guy that worked there, which like, you don't want a dude fucking knocking at your door anyways when you're alone out of the shower. And he was like he, you know, said someone had given a present.

3:52 So I opened the door, which I don't know what I was thinking, handed me a gift bag was and then I was like, Okay, someone knows where I'm staying now and this is creepy and scary and I don't know who this is.

4:01 Yes, And then happened to you too. It happened to me and I this is the part of the brag that I want to tell the most, which is that our rooms were so big and beautiful at that hotel that someone would knock on the door. This happened to me multiple times, and it would take me so long to get to the door that they would either knock again or try to open the door. No, well, but it would be like say it turned down or the meat or something like that. Because I always forget to put that leave me alone thing on the door. I always forget. I always want to hear really JF and I fucking this is how compatible we are.

4:33 The moment we don't close the door to the hotel room before putting the leave me alone.

4:37 I got to adapt to that, Oh my god, because it's there's nothing more than when a person comes into your room, they don't want to be there when you're there, and you it's like you're being a creep by having not put the sign on them. Totally. So anyway, the guy knocked, I was walking over, knocked again, and I said, who is it? No one answered. Knocked again, I said who is it? But it was close enough to I thought maybe it was you joking around and I didn't have pants on. So then I was like, oh, I'm just going to open the door as our funny joke of opening the door no clothes on.

5:09 But then this is actually a thing that's happened a couple of I love surprising with no clothes on.

5:14 It's my favorite joke. It's pretty good one. But I so I stood behind the door, opened it. It was a dude and he was like, here's a present for you. He didn't say anything, but here's a present for you. And I kept the door so closed that I basically only could fit my arm out, grabbed the bag, pulled it in, and slammed the door. I didn't say thank you, didn't say anything, and it was really scary. Well, then of course we meet the woman who dropped those things off. Yeah, she's like, oh, did you guys get my bag that I sent you? The present? And immediate?

5:46 And I was terrified and we were like, how do we look at this? I'm Gonnayell at the front, ask of what's going on? Did you call around Texas looking for the fucking our.

5:53 Minds of course went in fucking yea insane in the way where if other people could hear us, they'd be like, calmed down assholes, like this is not that big of a DA don't know. Well, but when the explanation finally came, it was like really embarrassed.

6:07 First I saw her and she was just like the sweetest blonde textan like angel face. So I'm like, all right, this is the girl who's going to kill us. It's like, okay, it's a pretty good way. She's fine, she's sweet, she'll do it nicely. But then she was like, did y'all get my present? I saw Vince in the parking lot of my hotel, and so I sent it up like she just knew that we were staying there.

6:27 In the most natural, non evasive, invasive way possible, Right, she knew, and this so sent us up some. And also it's the thing that everyone we were going crazy for and everyone in Texas. We learned that there's a there's a gas station called BUCkies that's beloved, and BUCkies makes a product Steve and I don't know if you know this already, they make a product called beaver Nuggets that are essentially cocaine dipped in fucking like maple sugar some shit. Yeah, there's a grind element but also kind of like puffed puffed corn cereal, yeah, but then maple like coating, yeah, and something about it like, don't candy.

7:11 It's almost got a cotton candy element. Yes, because it's just like sugar and air. But we were eating them like lunatics, so many of those, And that's what she sent up. It was like the loveliest gift of like, welcome to Textans. People, We're like, fuck can kill us. We're like propelling down the side of the building to avoid being in the front. It was so crazy, but it's just.

7:33 That thing of like, you know, can we do one last on the road story really quick, because it's my favorite of this The Chicks.

7:39 Whose sister the chick and my sister. Yes.

7:42 Okay, So after the after live shows, we do like a meat and great thing where we meet so many cool people like listeners and take photos with them, and a lot of them give us presents like boxes of chocolate, of candy, moths, orever.

7:54 Yeah.

7:54 So one girl when came in medicine, she was so nice and she was like, you guys got me through some really hard times, thank you so much.

8:01 Whatever. We're like great, okay, and.

8:02 Then we go to take a photo with her, and as the photo is about to be taken.

8:06 Yeah, there's like that moment of silence where we all turned to the camera and are like fake smile, do a weird pose, and right in that moment, she goes, I'm going to do what the lady did, and then George is going to do what she did. Okay, okay, So the lady goes my sister's dying, and Georgia laughed just like louder like. Georgia burst out laughing.

8:27 I was cracking up, because when you're in a horrified position sometimes you just laugh.

8:33 Well, and it was so quiet. It was like to give me the tension of like, what the fuck are we going to do with my sister's dying. My sister's dying. So then Georgia laughs. Then the pictures that Karen's Georgia, I didn't say it like that. You were kind of like, don't do that. Well, I was just like that you admonished me. You've never admonished me before. Well you were laughing, I know, said her sister. I say, you were in the wrong at all. I agree with you. So I turned to the woman.

9:05 After the photo were like, oh my god, both those like are you okay?

9:08 Like what are you talking about? We're like my contact turned, you know, circle up a moment. This is a thing, and we're here for you. We get it. And then she goes she is so jealous that she's not here, right, she just dying. Used the wrong phrasing right in the moment of silence, so it's it felt like she was basically saying, I'd like to tell you this very sad thing.

9:31 Sister is dying.

9:32 My sister is my sister's dying of how she meant to say it. Yeah, so now we know how I react in moments of fucking horror, and now we know I don't know.

9:44 It was hilarious, that's about it. It was super uh And also she thought it was kind of funny. Once we were like, we thought your sister was dying, and then she was like, oh no, no, she's fine. We were like mad at her, yeah, because that was a lot. Okay, do you have a correction? And this really is only for the people that were at our second show in Dallas.

10:05 When I did the story of Terry Hoffman, who was this crazy cult leader. It was one of my favorites murder stories I've ever done. But at the end, I said she died in nineteen ninety seven, which is very odd. I like pulled it out because I didn't have it on the page and I'd forgotten to write. I had some things notes I wanted to make, and I just saw her, so I just wanted to tell everybody she actually died in twenty fifteen, at age seventy seven. That is a big difference in time. She just kept going.

10:36 She was just like not giving up on this cult dream. No, she wasn't at all.

10:40 And she she that book that she made was The Color of Money, The Power of Color Money Force, or the or the Color of Money Power Force. It's some bullshit book about like and we talked about it that night. Whatever color you wear is going to bring you money and different degrees.

11:02 No, how about a fucking vintage orange clown blanket. I can bring me a lot because that's what I'm wearing.

11:07 Well, look, there's a fifty dollars bills stuff underneath your butt. Oh no, that's just where I keep my money. Oh, just stuff right under your one cheek. I have a second corrections corner. Okay, this is for everybody. Last week I said that the director of wind River was a woman, and it certainly is not a one. I'm not sure exactly where I got it, but it was the movie that I was talking about. I watched it on the plane and it was really good. It was about the murder on like a Native American land and it was so I said, it's Taylor. I'm gonna look it up really quick. The director's name, uh is Taylor Sheridan, And that's a man. Taylor isn't interchangeable name. It is, but I feel like I should have at least glanced at

12:00 a Wikipedia, but I think I thought I remembered a female woman of love, like a Native American female woman getting getting accolades, and so I kind of really combined it all in my mind. Anyway. Okay, props to Taylor Sheridan because it's such a good movie.

12:18 Okay, I'll watch it. Can I tell you something from the Internet? Yes, Okay, I found an article recently. It says, uh, it's from a place. It's the DC one oh one is is like a is the name of the website, and it says weird news. The voice behind many best selling books on tape is actually a serial killer.

12:38 No.

12:39 So it turns out that in the eighties, a blind couple, showing their appreciation to the prisoners of the California Medical Facility state prison who have voiced they started a program to have the inmates of their voice audiobooks.

13:00 Okay it was.

13:01 The program was then run by our friend Ed Kemper. No, so it's called Volunteers of Vacaville or the Blind Project. They were recorded thousands of books, bestsellers, textbooks, mysteries, science fiction, Western Western's children's books, and cookbooks unto tape cassettes. From nineteen seventy seven to eighty seven, Kemper had spent over five thousand hours in the recording booth and had more than four million feet of tape and several hundred books was credit, including and.

13:32 This is the best one. Flowers in the Fucking Addict addict addicts A Flowers in the addictions Flowers in the Addict? Why do I do that? Okay, purely based on mind Hunter, the wonderful series on nehwks that I personally love, and the way that actor played Ed Kemper. Oh, can you imagine no Flowers in the attict as that guy in the kind of nerdy voice, like the she touched his coin?

14:05 Is that in the book? I don't know my sister and brother touching groins. My brother were like that, we have to track that down somewhere. I mean, I would never listen to that in a millionaires.

14:16 I would What if I started falling asleep to that at night because you know it's relaxing. No, it is not homing and relaxing. No, it's one of my new fall asleep at night books. And then I kill a bunch of people and they're not related at all.

14:29 I find and I've already bragged that I'm sound sensitive. I find people's voices to be a real make or break. And knowing that a person who had that voice, oh right, was also a psychotic killer who beheaded his own mother, be a hard break for you. That would be a tough one to separate and not hear all the crickly crags of insanity and murder in there.

14:56 Fair enough, So I can listen to a book about murder while falling asleep, but I can't listen to I shouldn't listen to a book by a murderer read.

15:03 By a murderer. I don't think so. I don't think that you're subconscious, because you do the.

15:07 Thing where you know when you look at old photos of a murderer and you're.

15:10 Like, do I see it? Can I see it? Yeah? I can see it in his eyes, right, well, I hear it in his in his voice. You absolutely will. Of course they will drink, yes, if nothing else, You're to be hearing the voice of a sociopath who has no human like, normal human connection to the book. He's just not going to do the book justice. He read so much. V. C. Andrews when I was like, well, it should have been taken away from us.

15:39 It should have been banned. Listen, I'm not for banning books. No, not really, but you see, Andrews had some shit going on.

15:46 Did you ever read My Sweet Audrina? Yes, okay, I'm obsessed on that concept. What if my parents have brainwashed me and I don't remember my actual childhood? Like that whole concept was un.

16:00 Can I tell you how badly I wanted to have been adopted and had I wanted to have been kidnapped by my parents and they weren't really my parents?

16:10 Yep? What the fuck is wrong? Why would they because it's just like exciting, Like you're just sitting there in front of your TV dinner, you know what I mean, like having your normal life, and you were like, what is something happened?

16:22 Something's cool happen? Yeah, like I don't belong here.

16:25 Let's start. Let's read that again, let's book club it right now. Yes? Do you want to Yes? Oh my god, let's all read. Which one do you want to do? Do you want to do My Sweet.

16:32 I don't remember most of us, my Sweet Audrena, but it gives me chills, so I must know something is going on in the book.

16:38 I'm pretty sure that's the one where at one point the adoptive mother somebody scrubs somebody else with bleach in a bathtub. Fun. Do you remember that? No, like you must get clean? Not clean? No, let's do it.

16:51 If it's not that one, it's a different you do that one? Or flowers in the Attic? Let's start with? Whichould we start with?

16:56 I kind of want to do my Sweet Audrenma, just because it's a little bit like I just to rewatch the they did the Flowers in the Attic made for TV movie on Lifetime. Oh, did you watch it, Stephen? Did Mal's do an episode? No? But she should, Yes, absolutely? Wait will you tell her? I'll do it with her if she does it? Oh, do you want to do it too? Sure? Malls has a podcast called mother May Sleep with podcasts.

17:20 Podcasts that we've both done where you watch a fucking made for TV Lifetime movie.

17:24 Yeah, and did she stop doing it? She's seasonal so because you know, you go, you go beat by beat of the movie. So she has it in fifteen episode chunks takes a few months off.

17:35 Oh well, then we all have time to absorb it, watch it fifteen times, like write you know, full essays on it. Okay, all right, mall's Molly Mackley, Molly Mackley, or we're coming at you, coming for you. But everybody else that wants to do this, let's all read My Sweet Audreina, Like do you want to go pick up copies tomorrow?

17:52 Sure? Today, it will be. It has to be a used like paperback copy to Okay, it has to be a.

17:59 Haunted co let's haunt it with the tears of a fucking girl from the eighties who's like, I hope I get kidnapped.

18:06 Yes, the hot cut that out fantasy. If you can go to a thrift store that has the copy of this or your mother, your grandmother's books bookshelf. It makes me think of the cabin we used to stay in in Blue Lake that had all kinds of It's Stephen King, vc Andrews. They had all that shit at this cabin. You could just go pick some horrible book you're going to read while you were there for the week. Oh, that sounds amazing. So we're going to we're all starting My Sweet Audrina this Friday.

18:39 Yeah, because so the next week is Thanksgiving, So we're putting a live episode up, and so let's meet back here in a week, in.

18:47 Two weeks and two weeks at the beginning of December. Yeah, whatever our next apartment episode is, we'll meet you here and we will have read and we will be ready to discuss my sweet dream. You guys, this is epic. Epic. Send us notes your thoughts. Oh all right, okay, Why am I so excited? Oh?

19:04 Because it's the messing we've ever done. Come on, We're doing it all for you. Look, we're here for you. Look and listen. Please at my favorite murder dot.

19:12 Com dot com goodbye, dot org.

19:14 Dot org you know dot what's it is there? Like a religious one dot something dot g E s U s G E. I think you just felt Jesus wrong, miss Catholic.

19:30 That's because I was trying to include everybody. Some people go God, some people going yeah wait, hold on g.

19:42 E, s U s Wow, that's my I think my addict, my addict is has been usurped as the.

19:50 I do not mean to complain, but complain recently, I've been in states of mind of being so tired and drained or just like we just talked too much, very much, Yeah, there's so much talking that I hear things come out of my mouth or I'm doing that weird thing of like you hold a door open for someone and they walk through and then you're like tomorrow, You're welcome tomorrow, or you say just some totally weird thing and you think you're saying the normal thing.

20:15 Yeah, I get it. Horrifying, it's fun, No, it's not.

20:19 It's a good time. Who's first this week? You know what we started, Let's talk about this really quickly.

20:25 Okay, we decided that, and I think we should talk more about this of who should be first this week?

20:31 Meaning if your fucking.

20:32 Murder is horrifying and awful, and I have a fucking delightful black widower from the fucking eighteen hundreds who's just like.

20:40 Kills all her husband, it's like, well I should go second to like bring it back up. That's right.

20:46 Like last week I went second and did the Bernies and that is just a terrible story and you should have closed it, right, And same with remember the last.

20:56 Night I did the story of the boy that killed his father, right, and same exact thing where we're both like.

21:04 And I did a fucking guy who dressed up as Santa Claus in the early nineteen hundred's and robbed the bank. And it was hilarity ensued, so much hilarity in sued.

21:12 And this is Dallas. Third night in Dallas? Was it third night? I don't know, no idea, So I should have closed. I mean, look, we can, we can look back in remembrance all we want, but.

21:24 We're maybe maybe when one of us knows we're doing a murder, our story is fucking horrific, and we can tell the other person like, hey, this isn't a closer, are you? Can you do the closer? Yes, that sounds fine. Okay, so mine right now. It can be a closer if you need it to be. Okay, how's yours?

21:43 Uh uh not? Okay? Oh my god. Perfect. So we're right now. We are now officially dismantling they who went first last time, unless we need it, unless it doesn't.

21:55 Matter, unless how will we go back to it when we whenever we decide. Okay, we'll make it up on the spot. Oh yeah, that's we can do a room right.

22:05 There's no format, This is all pretend all right, Okay, great, Okay, we're back.

22:15 This is so fun. This rewind stuff, because this is stuff that isn't in my memory anymore.

22:20 Yes, so like to.

22:22 Go specific, Yeah, it's really like actually fun. I mean I'm surprised, honestly, Like the beaver Bucky's beaver nuggets, like that was such a big deal in our lives then.

22:34 I know, it was like Texas all of a sudden was like in our life in this major way. Where's oh my god. I just never imagined that this would happen, that this would be the spot where people are like, no, we're all there's going to be a ship ton of us, and we're going to tell you exactly this secret to living, which is eating these essentially maple syrup cornpuffs right out of a bag. Yeah, so good.

22:58 It's just wild that whole time in our life.

23:00 It's good to see the kind of like being able to separate the hard part from the fun part. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's like this is the most fun washed version of this experience we could have, which is we don't remember the details and it's like, oh but remember the fun for yeah, totally. I love that. I love that for us.

23:18 I love that for us back then because it's just I feel so much, so much younger and so much like I never realized that we weren't into the podcast that long when this all this crazy stuff started happening. Yeah, And the Texas thing is because when we were like planning to go on tour, you know, is anyone going to come? Our touring agent told us that Texas is one of our biggest marketing markets. And I think we were both shocked by that because I always figured people from Texas would hate me.

23:46 I don't know why. Yes, Ran, it's like we fell for the big Fox News lie or whatever, where it's like, there's no enemies anywhere, there's no it has nothing to do with the state that you live in or anything.

23:58 You mean, we're not the coastal ely and you don't hate us.

24:01 I mean that's great. Also, this is one of our favorite memories of a moment in the VIP where the woman was taking the picture with us and said, oh my god, my sister's dying and we thought she m.

24:14 I totally remember, and she goes of jealousy, of jealousy, of jealousy.

24:19 It was like perfect, perfectly the worst time to take a picture cutting her off at that moment in the sentence, it was so funny. That was like, that was a beautiful moment. That really is just from one moment something sad wasn't happening. That was crazy. And also, this is my mistake about when River director Taylor Sheridan, who is not a woman, and also learning from this specific episode, I thought, a Native woman, Yes, this is going to follow this thing and every episode you have to bring this up from now on. Yeah, exactly, I'll never stop talking about it. But it was like, that's it's almost more embarrassing because I'm kind of like trying to what do they call that virtue signaling of like I love

25:02 this movie and a Native woman directed it, I'm doing everyone I know. Nope, no, turns out the single WGA member that was against the strike and came out and talked about it, That's who I'm actually talking about once again, a corrections corner for the ages.

25:18 And then also I didn't realize we did this so early, and I think this is really smart of us. If I can say is hey, let's do the more lighthearted stories after the heavy stories. So whoever is had here that week goes first. Like that has made such a huge difference I think in us in the show in the way we're able to do it, Yes, like a hob a gnarly fucking like story, and I'm like, how am I going to do this? And then I'll remember that you probably have like a fun heist afterwards, so it's okay.

25:48 And that's the fun the producers get to have where they're not only mapping out our calendar of like when do we get to go on vacation next, but they're mapping out how we're going to do this so that it feels like there's some sort of intentionality about it, which is, yes, it's great and it's so funny that it took us to I guess a year of touring to be like, hey, here's a little data from the Red so.

26:10 You don't want to go out on is a fucking yeah serial killer?

26:14 Good night, thank you and good night no good night? Who Yeah, that's we learned that one about as quick as we learned don't do the same story for both rights. But that was immediate.

26:26 Oh got the silence, all right, so shall we get into your story.

26:30 Let's do it. Let's do it.

26:31 This is Eli Stutsman, the Amish serial killer.

26:41 This I it's funny because in thinking of that, I worked on a couple different murders, and I did this in Texas a couple times, where I'd start something I only like, this is too depressed. So like there was the Killing Fields. I was working on the Killing Fields because it's right outside Houston and it is a place where either one or several serial killers go to dump young women's bodies.

27:08 It's been going on four years. No one's ever think they caught one guy that's connected to eleven murders, but they haven't caught all of them.

27:16 It's the Blur's show called The Eleven right now that you can watch. I think it's an Annie show on demand? Oh is that truebout them?

27:22 Yeah, it's good on Annie. Well it's on demand. I don't know who did it. Oh okay, that's great. Yeah, because it's very it's very involved and convoluted, and I got I would say, a quarter of the way through it, and then I was like, this is for a live show especially, it's just so bleak.

27:37 Well, we get so many people at live shows being like you should why didn't you do this murder? And it's like, because it's so fucking depressing, not because we don't want to or didn't know about it. It's just like hearing the audience's silence when you're talking about a fucking eleven people getting murdered.

27:50 Who didn't it's not solved. Yeah, it's a huge bummer. It's rough, and also it's well whatever, there's just all kinds of elements going on. It's great. Just felt like I've started and stopped many because there's so many dark ones. But then I stumbled upon an episode of the television show Deadly Devotion, which I think is on ID. You've never seen that one. I got it on Apple like iTunes. Yeah, but so it's basically like murders that happen within certain churches or religious christ fun. Yeah, so this one is pretty amazing. It's the Amish serial killer. Amish serial killers. Yeah, tell me about it. Well, not in the classic sense, but yes, so there's a I knew nothing about any of this. I didn't know there were subsets of Amish

28:47 within the Amish, and there are some who are more liberal and some who are more conservative. That sounds political, but more you know, classic old school and the Schwartz and Ruber Truber Amish. I'm sorry Schwartz and trouber Amish are the considered old Order Amish. They speak Pennsylvania Dutch, I mean Pennsylvania Germans. I'm not even reading off the page that I'm holding in front of my face. I'm like trying to remember off the top of my head as I'm looking at it. They speak Pennsylvania German. They speak English with outsiders, they don't follow. They don't fellowship or inter marry with more liberal Amish orders, so they won't go outside of their own Amish group. If like the like they consider the Amish who put the red

29:40 orange reflective signs on the back of their carriages that say like the slow thing for me. Yeah, that's too liberal for them. These people don't have running water or indoor plumbing. They they they never ride in cars unless it's an absolute emergency. They they their belief is that they're not supposed to take interest in their appearance because it promotes vanity, So they dress in dark colors. The women wear longer dresses. It's it's considered vain to wear a button on your dress, as a woman like to have buttons. So basically, they're a huge fucking bummer.

30:18 And you know what's great about when we do Amish stories is that they can't listen and tell us what we got wrong.

30:23 They'll never fucking know a word we're saying about those phony bitches buttons. They're so phony it's calling me Amish phony tony bonies, fucking phonies. Okay, No, they're actually the realist. So they also don't allow the teenagers. You know, normal Almish teenagers go to get to do their rum spring out where they go out into the world for a year and party and go crazy, and then they get to come back and then they're like, yeah, I'm this is better, and it is better. They have homemade butter and those barns. Yeah, those wood burning stoves they sell on TV. So the schwarzen Trooper Almish teenagers do not get to leave, but they do allow them to quote court in order to find a marriage partner, which includes

31:16 hugging in a bed while being fully closed and rocking in a chair together. So sorry, yeah, what the fuck? Yeah, you see him across the room and you're like, oh my god, what is this electricity that I'm feeling because I don't know what electricity is, because I don't know what this means. Trying to high ross I just held up my hand to hide five Georgia, and she fucking picked up her foot and pointed it at me like I was gonna high five her foot that was just so far away. That was a genius. Okay, this is a good start. It's a good start. So that was so something my sister would do. Okay. So yeah. So so it's hardcore. And there's a young woman named Ida who is raised you know, she's in the community. Her

32:14 family as well liked. She's, you know, a pretty young girl that everybody likes. And they show this thing in the episode of the show where the one of the ways that they the boys and girls teenage boys and girls mixed together is they go sing in groups in a barn. So like sounds like a fucking blast, right.

32:34 They go into the barn, the guys are kind of over on one side singing, and then the girls are on their side singing. So Ida goes to one of these mixers and so, you know, that's a generous way to describe it. And there she meets a fellow Schwartz and truber Amishman named Eli Stutzman. He's good looking, he's witty, he's sophisticated. He's charismatic. He was a rebel. The people in this episode he wore a button you fucking had He had a button like as a pin. No, he didn't just use it as a button. It wasn't. He just had an extra fever button. Yeah, so perfulous button.

33:14 Oh my god, are you the funds? So the people in this episode, there was this really awesome woman who used to be Amish and she had the greatest accent and she was like so like, you know, wearing her white turn offlet. Yeah, very but the craziest accent. You couldn't figure out what that accent was. And she was saying that he always stood out that he was this you know, he was really good looking and he just kind of was like this thing everyone paid attention to because he was just different than the other Amish teenage boy.

33:47 He was the fabio of the Amish world. Totally okay. Uh. The actor that they got to play him in the re enactments looked like the main guy from Walking Dead. So he had that bones, cheek bones and kind of like rangy, you know, like something's going on with that. He might shoot you and eat you. So his father was a bishop okay, and uh uh, he was like a rebel. So he was his father and he fought constantly, really really viciously because he would talk in church. He was always just doing something. He did whatever he wanted and the father and made the father crazy and embarrassed, and he couldn't control him, and he was always testing the limits. They said. So of course Ida immediately is like, I'm in love with this. He loved him incredible. I'm

34:40 talking during church. I love him. He's a fucking fighter.

34:44 Shut his fucking mouth at he's whispering during during the church.

34:49 Then the Bible reading. Okay, so she ends up. Some people are her parents are worried that she's mixing in with a you know, a bad Amish. But other people say that she had this calming effect on him and he was much less rebellious, and they were clearly really into each other and in love. And the way they describe it, the Amish describe it is when you have these things, they call it being worldly. So like if you're really into your appearance in the vanity thing, that's a worldly issue. It means like you're from out the outside world. Yeah, so his worldly ways created problems in the community and with his father specifically, and so he gets in such a bad fight with his father he leaves the community, and of course Ida is devastated. He

35:41 never says a word to her, he just leaves. She's broken hearted, but she knows there and love. She believes they're in love, and she believes he's going to come back. So he goes and stays at a different farm, another Amish family. He goes and stays there, like rents a room, but he ends up getting kicked out because the mother in the family finds gay horn in his room. Wait what yes, fucking one hundred and eighty. So she's in the reenactment, she's she's making this bed with the big beautiful Amish quilt on it, and then it's like, what's this over here? And basically this was a thing that he had been dealing with as part of his rebellion and part of his thing. Do you how do you think?

36:22 Do you think the Amish woman was just like what is this? And she's like, I'm gonna take five minutes.

36:25 And then I'm gonna tell it reyone. She's like, I better look through this to make sure. Oh my god, where do you okay, yeah, so you can imagine how freaked out they were where they were like, they just immediately kick him out. Where did he even find gay Horn? Well, it sounds like he was kind of he from the looks of it and the sound of it. He was a bit of a sociopath. So he got what he wanted all the time. So he went to a BUCkies and he was like he was too went down to the BUCkies. He put on his worldly suspenders so that nobody would, you know, pick up on him. Okay, so okay.

36:59 So he ends up moving back into the community and he tells Ida that he wants to marry her and start a life and he's going to reform and he's going to be good, which essentially was he had nowhere else to go, and so he comes back, he apologizes, he repents. They get married on Christmas nineteen seventy five.

37:23 So after a month, she's pregnant and they start their family. You know, their son Danny is born obviously nine months later. Turns out the Amish carry their children for nine months, just like the worldly folk. So their son Danny's born, and then they move to a farm and they start a dairy business. So they have a bunch of cows.

37:50 They milk the cows, they sell the milk, and that's how they make their money. And they all work on this farm. It's really hard work, but they're actually doing okay. Ida gets pregnant for a second time, and then one night they're an electrical storm hits and they wake up in the middle of the night and electric lightning bolt has hit the barn and has caught it on fire.

38:14 So they run outside and Ida runs straight into the barn. She's like, I'm gonna go save those pails of milk. Yes, And he runs to go to the pump to get to start filling buckets with water. And when he comes back with the buckets of water, Ida is laying in the doorway of the barn unconscious, and so they he you know, gets neighbors. They end up calling nine one one, and he when the police and the fire department everybody get there, he explains that Ida, when she was a child, she had about of a rheumatic fever and so she had a weak heart and she ended up being dead, and so they were like, she must have been so scared of this fire and having run in and everything that she just had a heart attack and died, so

39:04 they list her death as cardiac arrest. So he of course is completely grief stricken, and the community rallies around him. They all start working at the farm to make sure the dairy farm keeps going. He's just in the house. Some people come to take care of Danny because he's just like completely beside himself, and Ida's mother actually moves in to take care of Danny, and slowly, as the months go by, she notices Eli is less and less grief stricken and more and more acting like the rebel that he was before he left the first time. And within months of her death, he has the whole farm electrified. Yeah, so there's a really hilarious scene where they just walk in and he he's got this big, really devious smell

40:02 in his place. He like reaches up and pulls at the string and like the light goes on in the kitchen, like, yes see, this is mine. So he puts in lights everywhere, he buys a car, he cuts his hair, and he starts leaving the house at night. So Ida's mother's like, what the fuck is going on. So then it turns out he put an ad in the personal section of a gay newspaper. Wait what Yeah, so he was going to live that secret dream that he wanted to do before.

40:37 And here this is how the ad read, Oh dear Amish man, muscular, thirties, five seven one forty, blue eyes, brown hair, straight appearing, I think is what? That's str app right, very appearance? What strapping? Str What is it? I was thinking that they meant like straight, like he seems straight. I gotta get it. But it could be strapping.

41:03 Not the brownie man, very discrete, affectionate, health, conscious sense of humor, would like to meet others into farming, ranching or carpentry for friendship or possible relationship. So he's going for it. I mean, fine, love dude, I love. Farming and ranching are very similar. I'm not sure why he used he used up those letters to write both, but maybe there's a subtle difference. I'm not sure. Or it could be code. I don't know. So he starts having parties in the barn and like men are cutting died, Yes men are?

41:38 You know?

41:38 This is months after but men are coming to the ranch gay men, and it says it says here he starts having parties in the barn for gay English and Amish men. So I think it's just like whoever wants to come. But basically the entire community starts gossip because they're just like did you hear? And he's not being discreet in the lead. He's got lights on like first for starters. So finally there's so much gossip and he's so you know, he goes and tells the family friends like he's so hurt by all this gossip, making it seem like it's all malicious and untrue that he In nineteen eighty two, he sells the farm, he takes Danny and he leaves and he settles in Austin, Texas. And it was really hard for Danny to make that adjustment

42:31 because he went from being you know, old school Amish into just the real world of Austin, Texas. So he became really withdrawn. He had a really hard time. Meanwhile, his dad was basically opens a construction business and just starts freely dating gay men, like dating openly in a very modern way, which you know, it's the early eighties in Texas, like it must have been dangerous to say the least totally In the fall of nineteen eighty four, Eli's driving down the road and he sees a hitchhiker.

43:10 He picks him up, and his name's Glenn Pritchard. And Glenn Pritchard is a divorced father to who used to be Mormon and had a really bad drinking problem. He left the Mormon church, he left his family or you know, maybe his wife divorced him because of his drinking problem. He tried to join the Coastguard to solve the problem, he got kicked out, so now he's just kind of lost.

43:31 So Eli offers him a job at the construction business and room and board in the house, so he actually Danny, Eli's son, gets along with Glenn really well. And Glenn has two kids and he really misses his kids, and so he, you know, takes Danny on as like his own and looks out for him. And he really doesn't like the way Eli's bringing men home constantly and in no way tries to hide it. And Glenn's really uncomfortable like that He's doing it in front of Danny and thinks, you know, and tries to talk to him about it, but he doesn't. He you know, Eli has none of that.

44:09 And then he's like, well, I also have another problem, which is you haven't paid me in six months because he's been working, you know, for the construction company, and Eli's not paying And Eli's like, I have a cash flow problem. I'm going to get you the money. He's like, well, you need to get me the money. Well, it turns out they find Glenn Pritchard dead in a ditch. He's been shot, and when the police come to talk to Eli, they find his last place of residence. Eli says, I haven't seen him in two months. I don't know what happened to him. Immediately police are like, there's something going on with this guy. When they go back to question him a second time, like a week later, Danny and Eli have left town. Uh So, basically Eli drops Danny

44:56 off at a family that he met when he of first left Ohio where where they started out. There's like a family named the Barlow's in Wyoming that he met. They I don't think he knew them that well, and he brings Danny to their house and drops him off. Is basically, can you take care of him? I have to go and like makes up some reason my hand, some business he has to go take care of. And he's like, I'll be back, and six months later he calls and says he's coming to get Danny to take him to Danny's grandparents for Christmas. So he's going to take him to Ida's parents. Oh, back to Amish Country.

45:37 Danny's thrilled, and then the grandparents are also thrilled because they hear that they're coming back for the holidays, and so they haven't seen Danny in five years, so they're thrilled that they get to see him again and reconnect. Ten days later, it's Christmas Eve, they don't show up, so of course there the family's really worried. Eventually they get a letter from They get a letter from Eli saying he's skiing with friends in Idaho, and then he keeps sending letters just giving them updates on what they're doing out in the world, and sometimes Danny sends letters to it's just saying, you know, I'm learning this in school and blah blah blah. So then then the grandparents in July, so it's like, you know, six months after

46:27 they didn't show up for Christmas, they get a letter saying that Danny was killed in a car accident and buried in Wyoming. On the family plot, of the Barlow's, the family that he stayed with, Oh my god, and the parents, the grandparents were like, well, we we want to see that, like we tell us more about it, and he just doesn't say anything else. So they end up getting on a bus. These old school Amish people who are not allowed to ride in cars, they break the rule. They get on a bus and they go to Wyoming so that they can go see their grandson's grave.

47:04 So when they get there, they their name, their last name is Gingrich. So they get the Gingriches get to the Barlows in Wyoming and they say, will you please show us our grandson's grave, And they don't know what they're talking about, and they're like, the last that we heard is they let you know, Eli came and pick them up and they were going driving around and we haven't heard anything else. There's there, He's not buried here.

47:31 So then they have to ride back on the bus, like now they have no idea what's going on. On December twenty fourth, nineteen eighty five, in Chester, Nebraska, a hunter is walking through a field. Oh no, uh huh, and he sees something across the field and it's fucking cold, you know, it's Nebraska in December. He thinks it's a mannequin, he thinks it's a doll, and when he comes up on it, it's the body of a young boy in blue pajamas, laying on his back with his hand over his heart and it's so cold outside that the skin is blue and he's dead and authorities can't identify him.

48:12 There's nothing identifying on him, so they end up calling him little Boy Blue, And two years later, Readers di does a story about little Boy Blue and the hunter who found them and how there was no sign of trauma on the body. They don't know how he died, and they don't the authorities hadn't figured out a cause of death. They just know he was wearing blue pajamas.

48:36 So the Barlows find this story in Reader's Digest magazine. No, they know that when Danny left their house, when Eli came to pick him up, he was wearing blue pajamas. That the fuck yeah. So they have a bad feeling and they go to police, or they call police, and the police come over and the investigator who was on the scene when the body was is the one that goes to the Barlow's house and they go pull out a picture of Danny and he immediately knows that's the boy.

49:07 And they end up taking some of the things that Danny left behind at the Barlow's house, one of which was a copy of the Vellatine Rabbit Book, which was his favorite book, and they fingerprint off of the pages of that book and they identify it and it was his body and so sad so on December fourteenth, it's identified as Danny Stutsman and they realize Eli has been sending letters from Danny to the grandparents seven months after Danny was actually dead.

49:39 In that so he died immediately after leaving the Barlow's house, probably because it's.

49:42 Pretty much exactly right you Texas town out. I believe it was outside Fort Worth. Eli files a police report because his car gets stolen, and immediately the police go and arrest him and he's extradited to Wyoming. So when he gets there, he tells the police that he picked Danny up from the Barlow's and he was sick when he picked him up, and they were driving all night and Eli just assumed that he was sleeping, and then at one point he checked on him because he wasn't responsive, and he figured out that he was dead, so he took Danny's body and laid it out in a field quote where God could find him. Yeah, So upon learning this and that bullshit story, the police reopened Ida's death from nineteen seventy seven and they go talk to Ida's

50:38 doctor who is in this special and he is like this, I'm assuming he's an Amish doctor because he's he looks like a character actor from Little House in the Prairie and he kind of talks like this is very quiet, And basically the police went to them and they were asking him about Ida's heart problem and he's like, what are you talking talking about? She didn't have a heart problem, and they're like but and he goes, where did you get that? And they were like the husband and he's like, no, no, no, she was in perfect health. So then they know basically that he had something to do with that death, but they have no evidence to connect him to it whatsoever.

51:23 When the Austin police asked him about Glenn Pritchard's death, though, he changes his story from what the original story was and he tells them that he was in the house with Danny they heard a gunshot go off, but he didn't get up and checked to see what the noise was and then, yeah, right, how you would do if you were in a house and someone else got shot.

51:47 And then the next morning when he got up to check, Glenn was gone, and so he you know, he didn't know what happened and never looked into it. So turns out when the police go to talk to the neighbor, the neighbors are like, we could hear them screaming about money at each other constantly, and we heard the gun shot.

52:06 Oh my god. So they, like the neighbors tell a totally different story. And so basically the theory becomes Danny was there when his father shot Glenn Pritchard and he didn't want the witness, so he smothered Danny and that's why there was no signs of trauma on the body.

52:23 Oh my god.

52:24 Yeah, and then left his body in a fucking field, which is just the weird Like that alone, the idea that he thought he was gonna be able to tell authorities that like left him where God could find him.

52:37 Where it's like like you thought that was okay somehow where it's like, no one would think that was okay.

52:42 You would you would never do that to your child. It doesn't even make sense anyway. On August. In August of nineteen eighty nine, he sentenced to forty years in prison, but he's paroled in March of two thousand and two, ended up serving like a quarter of his terms. Stop it everyone. But when he gets out, he moves to Fort Worth. He lives a super low key life because he found out while he was in prison that he had HIV. Oh my god. So he ends up on January thirty first, two thousand and seven, he committed suicide.

53:20 He slashed his wrists, sat down in a chair, and then watched TV until he'd fled out and died. Holy shit. Yeah, and that Eli Stutzman is the Amish serial killer. So it's not serial in the way that we would love it to be. Well, listen, we don't want we don't love it, No, not love it. But like I'm thinking Buffalo Bill when I start this story. But then it is the thing of this is a a sociopath slash psychopath who just would kill anybody that got in the way of what he wanted to do in his life.

53:54 And the idea that that's coming out of it's just like it just fascinates me. It could be it doesn't matter how you grew up, It doesn't matter where you came from, if you have that thing in your brain that makes you only want to like win and like dominate people, and it doesn't matter if.

54:13 You're like immune to fucking empathy. Empathy, Yeah, you're immune to it.

54:18 Yeah, you don't give a shit. It's crazy. You just do what you want.

54:22 And then you leave so many people in your way, you know, Grant, the grandparents, horrible, these people, all of it, and you just don't fucking care.

54:31 And that again just over your nose. Deadly Devotion. That was that basically, I just told you that episode of Deadly Devotion, which I that's really enjoyed.

54:40 Hi love that. Never heard of it. Incredible, not just the show, but like the concept. Yes, yeah, it's the right.

54:53 Okay, we're back, Karen. Do you have any updates? I do. So. There's this author named Greg Olsen who's written a couple books about Eli Stutsman, and one is called The Amish Wife, Unraveling the Lie's Secrets and Conspiracy that let a killer go free, and it just basically is the deep dive into Ida's death. His book before that was called abandoned Prayers, but also about Eli's crimes. It's a deep dive. So there's a bunch more information the facts that have come to light and the evidence about the timeline, everything, the chronology whatever about this crime. So if you are into this and want to know more, Greg Wilsen is the author that you should look up. So with that, let's get into Georgia's story about the Springfield three Asia degree

55:36 and Bobby Dunbar. Okay, peep boop. All right, listen, Like when I said that this is a this is a close or I didn't mean it was like a lighthearted story. So mom, oh okay, not happy about it. But there's no like, there's.

55:55 Not a ton of like, uh, there's no gruesome details.

56:00 I mean, I feel like if we ever sat down and did like a scientific pie graph or something, yeah, it would be like the one you can't get out of is dead children, right, Murdered children is the hardest, right.

56:14 Okay, Well then this is a little bit all right, let me just do this, okay, Okay, in the in honor of what we talked about last weekend. Last week of like websites like rancor and all these of.

56:28 Like the lists that they do.

56:30 Yes, this is three super mysterious disappearances.

56:34 Okay, all right, yes, let's do it. I'm changing the rules. I loving this.

56:38 You could do whatever you want. I'm starting with the Springfield Three. You know them. Okay, this is so this is just weird to me because there's there's nothing.

56:48 Let's read about it. Okay.

56:49 The Springfield three story begins June seventh, nineteen ninety two. Two friends, Susie Streeter she's nineteen, and Stacy McCall, she's eighteen. So picture the bangs and the fucking bleach blonde hair. They the two girls graduated from Kickapoo High School the day before, and so they're celebrating, like graduation of that sort of thing. So they are seen around two am on June seventh, leaving the last of the graduation parties they at attended that evening. They were supposed to spend the night at a friend's house, but when they got to the friend's house, it was too crowded, probably with people sleeping and not sleeping, so they were like, fuck it, We're going back.

57:31 To Susie's house.

57:32 And at Susie's house was Susie's mom, Cheryl Levitt. She's forty seven. She's a cosmetologist at a local salon. She's a single mother, and she's really close with her daughter. So they go back to her house. The next morning, around nine am, a friend her boyfriend go to the house to pick up because the two girls were supposed to have picked them up to go to like a water park for the graduation activities, blah blah blah. When they get there, they find the front door unlocked and they go in the house, but there's no sign of any of the three women. Each of their cars are parked outside, and all their personal property is left behind, including their purses, money, keys, cigarettes, as well as the

58:18 family dog, who's super agitated and locked in the bathroom, so they're like, what the fuck. The only weird thing at the scene is that the glass lampshade of the porch light had been shattered, but the bulb inside had been left intact, So the boyfriend sweeps the broken glass up to be helpful, and they While they're inside, they also answer a strange and disturbing call from an unidentified male who made sexual induendos innuendos to who answered the phone.

58:52 The girl of the couple. Oh oh was there, Yeah, so they went to check on them. The girl's just a phone.

58:57 So immediately a dirty phone call, the dirty phone call.

59:00 Immediately she hangs up and then another call immediately comes in again of sexual nature, and she hangs up again.

59:09 Let's see so they okay, okay. There another the.

59:16 Mother of the girl, Stacy, who wasn't who didn't live at the house.

59:22 She later goes to visit the house to be like, where's the fuck is my daughter? I can't get a hold of her, and she inside notices all three of the purses are there.

59:32 Of course, sees her daughter's clothing neatly folded from the night before. She calls the police and after placing the call, while checking the phones to answering machine, she finds a strange message left, but somehow it was inavertently erased the message, so we don't know what the message is and what it could have meant.

59:52 And did she say what she just said. It was a weird message.

59:55 I think it was like another sexual nature message. So police were very interested in the calm believed it may have been contained a clue. But it's fucking gone, just gone, forever, gone, forever.

1:00:11 Because this is early nineties, Like, was it still like an answer machine would tape in it? Yeah? I think so, right, We just you rewind it, yeah, and record over it. They still existed then, Yeah, although there was a you know that well in our household. Anyway, we got the like call the answering machine became. It was just in your phone. It just basically got ordered what you wanted, right.

1:00:37 It would take messages, but then you could also get That's when Stars sixty nine made its Grand de blue.

1:00:42 I remember when we had that like silver and black fucking message machine with a tiny cassette inside, and you would listen to a message, and then you rewound the tape yep, and recorded over it, and then you could get new messages, which you could only get as many messages as were as could be uh left on that little cassette. I fucking loved that machine. Yeah, it was fascinating.

1:01:03 It was amazing. Yeah, Jesus Christ. Okay, So the police aren't called for sixteen hours after the women were last seen at two am the night before, and other worried friends and family called and visited a home that day, which means a fucking shit ton of people walked through the house during the day ten to twenty people walked through the house. Upon arrival, the officers noticed no signs of a struggle except for the shattered porch light, and they also noted that the beds had been slept in sod had been so In nineteen ninety seven, Levitt and Street are declared legally dead, but their case files are still officially listed under missing. Investigators received a tip that the women's bodies were buried in the foundations of the

1:01:57 South Parking Garage at Cox hospitall So in two thousand and seven, crime reporter Kathie Bayard brought a man named nick Rick Norland, a mechanical engineer, to Springfield to scan the corner of the parking lot with ground penetrating radar. He found three anomalies roughly the same size quote that he said, we're consistent with a grave site location in the foundation fuck. Two of the anomalies were parallel and the other was perpendicular, so like kind of like cross hatched.

1:02:33 The Springfield Police Department didn't believe the scan was conclusive enough to justify tearing up the concrete, and also said at the parking garage was completed a year after the women's disappearance. But they could have been left somewhere so it was never tore up. But people think it's there then read it's also like here's how you're fucking wrong.

1:02:52 It's not, oh, you know, okay.

1:02:54 So then in nineteen ninety seven, Robert Craig Cox, he's imprisoned in Texas as a convicted kidnapper and robber and the suspect in a Florida murder.

1:03:03 He told journalists that.

1:03:04 He knew where the three women had been murdered and buried, and claimed their bodies would never be found.

1:03:09 He in nineteen ninety two.

1:03:10 At the time he had been living in Springfield, but had alibis for the night. But it was like his girlfriend at the time, who has since been like nobody was fucking lying about it. Yeah, he said that he would disclose to what he would disclose what happened to the three women after his mother had died, but he knewould happen, And as of today, a couple tips a month still come in, but no one knows what happened to the Springfield three.

1:03:37 Oh my god, these three fucking women. And that guy's mother hasn't died I guess not, but he's but everyone thinks. But everyone also thinks he's lying.

1:03:47 Oh, he's just trying to get some kind of but a kidnapper from that neighborhood, you know.

1:03:54 Yeah, it's just crazy. That's super crazy.

1:03:57 Yeah, okay, so the next one is okay, So a girl named Asha Decree I'm sorry Asia Degree. She's born Aisha Is born August fifth, nineteen ninety. She's a fucking normal nine year old fourth grader from Shelby, North Carolina. Normal girl, happy family, et cetera. The night of February fourteenth, two thousand, Asha and her brother went to sleep as usual in the room they shared.

1:04:24 Her older brother.

1:04:25 Almost an hour later, the power went out in the neighborhood after a nearby car accident, which is fucking creepy and weird but isn't connected to this.

1:04:34 But I think it's just creepy.

1:04:36 Yeah, it's restored. And then after that, her dad, Harold, returns home from work around twelve thirty in the morning. He checks on his daughter and son, just saw them both sleeping normal, but shortly after he went to bed around two thirty am, he recalls hearing Asha's bed squeak At that point, allegedly, Asha got out of bed, took a book bag she had previously packed with several sets of clothes and personal items, and left the house.

1:05:04 She's not heard of this. Yeah, it's crazy, it's crazy. She's nine years old. Yes, leaves.

1:05:09 Between three forty five am and four fifteen am, two drivers saw her walking south along Highway eighteen wearing a long sleeve white T shirt and white pants, and one witness reported seeing her at about four am and said that he turned his car around because he thought it was strange that such a small child would be out by herself at that hour, but when he circled three times, he saw her run into the woods by the roadside and disappear.

1:05:37 It's just bone chilling. I know. I think you're say you're driving home, you went to a party. You're like, I want to leave. I don't want to be at this party. People like, please just stay two more hours. Blood BiH blood. Suddenly four am, an I'm leaving. As you're driving home, you're like sober bummed, wanted to go home three hours ago. This is how I picture everything in my life. And then you're driving down a highway and see a child dressed in all whites, walking with a book back and you never stop screaming. And then you go back. You're like, what the fuck this is weird.

1:06:09 You go back and you go to drive by her again, and she runs into the fucking ones, fucking darts away.

1:06:14 What do you do? Call the police? You call the police, sit right, you pull your car over, you leave it there, call the police.

1:06:22 But you don't have cell phones yet? Oh shit, yeah, no cell phones. Maybe he went home and called.

1:06:28 Maybe why wasn't he a rich guy with one of those crazy huge cell phones in his car? Rich guys? This isn't fucking Dallas or whatever TV show they had those in?

1:06:41 Okay, okay, and said there was okay, it was a rainy night. To add that to this, not a fucking thing. A rainy night, and the witness said there was a storm raging when he saw her.

1:06:53 No, there's no way I wouldn't think that was a ghost if I saw it. Oh yeah, because it's so insane.

1:07:01 At six thirty am that morning, Asha's mother went into the kids room to wake them up. She found Asia gone, and she called the police, who were arrived by six forty five. Six forty am police dogs are called at the scene, they could not pick up Asia's ccent. So February seventeenth, two days after the search began, candy wrappers are found in a shed in a nearby business along the highway, near where Asia had been seen running into the woods.

1:07:30 So candy wrappers, okay.

1:07:32 Along with them or a pencil, a marker, and a Mickey Mouse shaped hair bow that were identified as belonging to her. So it's almost like she ran away at this point, it seems yeah, right, yeah, but why would a kid run away in a raging storm? That doesn't seem normal?

1:07:48 Yeah, I bet it started raining when she was dying outside. I wouldn't think, right, because any plan you would have if it was rainy, you'd be like, I'll do this, yeah for sure. Okay.

1:08:00 A week later, after no other traces or witnesses were found, the search was called off. FBI got involved and noted she was not a typical runaway.

1:08:09 Obviously.

1:08:10 She was under twelve, didn't have normal stuff such as a dysfunctional family, she didn't have bad grades, and by all accounts, she was a shy, sweet girl with close family, church community.

1:08:21 All this shit. She didn't even have a computer in the house.

1:08:24 So the thing of like her running away to meet someone she met online.

1:08:27 Oh that's not.

1:08:28 That doesn't make any sense, I mean doesn't make sense right right. There was no blood, no signs of a struggle or car accident, and for eighteen months everything stalled until Asia's book bound book bag was found during a construction project. So the backpack with her name and telephone number written inside, was found wrapped in a plastic trash bag about twenty six miles from her home. It was said that the bag looks carefully prepared, as if she were instructed by an adult what to pass no.

1:09:01 In May twenty sixteen, the FBI announced that their reinvestigation of the case had turned up a new witness that had come forward and reported seeing a girl who resembled Asia getting into a dark green nineteen seventies Lincoln Mark four or Ford Thunderbird with rest around the wheel and near where she was last seen.

1:09:25 So a scholarship in her name is was created for deserving local students and family members hold an annual March each February, retracing what they believe is.

1:09:38 The path that she took the night she vanished. That they don't know why.

1:09:41 And the thing about the path she took too, is that it's.

1:09:45 The path that her school bus took in the morning. It's not or like when she went to school. It's not an easily walkable path. It's almost like it was the only way she knew how to get from certain points in town because she took it every day. Yeah, rather than that was her purposeful planned like that she knows if she's going to go to, say, the town library, right, this is the way she's going to get this library the way you go. Yeah. Oh, it's just this weird story that is maddening because it's like who got into her ear? Yeah, it was like do you want to audition for a TV? Do you?

1:10:22 How come she shouldn't tell any of her friends like oh I met this person.

1:10:27 Or her parents like, oh my god, that's maddening. And how long ago did it happen? This happened into It happened in two thousand, man, and she's nine. It's so much younger than Yeah, that's like that makes me think it's like someone who's like mad her made her believe something mm hmm, that she could have something that she normally couldn't have. Yeah, yeah, like, if you meet me here, I'm giving away this pony, right.

1:11:03 Shit right, fucks really and then like all of that up until that point is like, Okay, she ran away from home for a certain reason.

1:11:11 Everything would have been normal.

1:11:12 But then when they find her backpack buried wrapped in plastic something she ran into someone or something.

1:11:20 And the thing's in the backpack. Yeah, if somebody like that idea that she packed it specifically for a reason, yeah it was a plan. Yeah, God damn fucked up. Horrifying.

1:11:32 All right, the last one has a resolution, Okay, Okay, Bobby Dunbar ready for this, yes, okay. Bobby Dunbar was the firstborn son to Lessie and Percy Dunbar of Opielai op Hawaii. No to a town in Louisiana, okay, Oplaosis Nope, Louisiana.

1:11:57 In August nineteen twelve, I think who send it? I could be wrong, but Lucinda Williams has a song. It's say it. I think it's Opele Losses opal Lass. That must be it. Or I'm thinking of Nagadochius. Yeah, forget it. The song might be about Bobby Dunbar. Okay. In August of nineteen twelve.

1:12:23 Oh yeah, the Dunbars took a fishing trip to nearby Swayze Lake in Saint Landry Parish, Louisiana. While on that trip, little Bobby Dunbar disappears. After an eight month search, authorities found a handyman traveling through Mississippi with a boy. And it's like this crazy search with his photo everywhere. It's this missing child blah blah blah, who appeared to match the description of Bobby Dunbar. The man with him, William Can't can't weell Walters. He claims that the boy was actually named Charles Bruce Anderson, and he was the of a woman who he who worked for his family, and that the boy's mother, named Julia Andrew Anderson, she had willingly granted him in custody of this boy and doesn't matter.

1:13:14 Fucking Walters is arrested and authorities sent for the Dunbars to come to Mississippi and identify this boy that they think is their son.

1:13:22 Oh okay, they think is his son. They think it's Bobby Dunbar. Do you know how much longer it was after he disappeared.

1:13:27 It was eight months? Oh okay, yeah, so pretty quickly upon seeing the missing son, her missing son. There's like, there's different reports. Some say that the mother Lessie like freaked out and was like my son, and Bobby Dunbar was like mom, you know, and they embraced. And other people said that that the boy cried and said that and agreed that this wasn't that his mother, you know, was someone else? Yeah? How could those? How could be two different, exact opposite stories. Didn't it happen in a police station? Yeah, I think there would be an official Yeah, but media, man, they like to true not that they're not talking shit on media.

1:14:09 Everyone's great vital et cetera now more than ever.

1:14:15 So Yeah, so they're like, all right, maybe this is our kid. Let's bring him home tonight and see how it goes. It's just like the change link, just like the Changeling in a real fucking life.

1:14:25 It happened like thirty years before. Yeah. Fuck, Okay, can you imagine?

1:14:29 I mean, I guess at the time you don't have photos or something, but not knowing if this person is your kid or not, how does that happen?

1:14:36 I don't know. Well, but in the Changeling, she knew it wasn't our kid, and it was the cops going, no, crazy bitch, this is your kid.

1:14:42 Right, And it's also like a grease stricken mother who's like, this resembles my kid. I really want it to be my kid. They're telling me it's my kid. Maybe they're right exactly. Yeah, Like your worst fear is that your child is gone forever. So anybody's showing up and being like it's me, you know.

1:14:58 Yeah, but he was.

1:14:59 The kid was and even like according to certain stories, the kid was like, no, this isn't my this isn't who I am, This is not my parent.

1:15:07 Also, you have to think of this kid that was just being driven around randomly by some dude. Yeah, what was he what was happening to him?

1:15:15 Yeah?

1:15:16 And what kind of state of shock and freak out was he in. It's almost like you combine two people who are in shock and trauma together.

1:15:23 Totally and it's like, uh yeah, okay, so yeah, you're not going to say that. Okay, the police officers, the mother's not going to be like, no, you guys are wrong, this isn't you know, You're not going to do that.

1:15:34 No. I think how many bad haircuts have I gotten? Where As it's happening I'm like, well, you're the boss. Yeah, looks great. I guess I don't know what I like anymo. Yeah, yeah, that's true. So they they're like, we don't know if it's him. Bring him home tonight, we give him a bath. And then the next day they're like, yeah, that's our kid.

1:15:54 Based on moles and scars. They're like, it's totally our son. Okay, all as well.

1:15:59 So the boy goes home with the Dunbars. There's a fucking parade and fanfare celebrating the homecoming. Everyone's like, we found, you know, we found the missing Dunbar boy. And then shortly after Julia Anderson, the mother of the boy who originally was supposed to be that wasn't Bobby Dunbar. She's in North Carolina. She arrives and you know, is like, that's actually my kid, and I didn't tell him he could take him for that long. But she goes to his she goes to his hold on Okay, okay. She's unmarried and worked as a field hand for the family of the man who had him. She said that she allowed him to take her son for what said was supposed to be a two day trip to visit one of Walter's relatives and that she had not consented for

1:16:51 him to take him for more than a few days. Okay, yeah, so so so this woman, Julia is presented with five different boys basically a fucking boy photo lineup. Yeah uh, and the same age as her son, including the boy who had claimed who had been claimed by the Dunbars. The boy is presented, he gave no, he gave no indication that he recognized this woman as his mother. Oh yeah, And she asked whether that he was the boy recovered.

1:17:23 She's like, set the boy you found, like, didn't totally recognize him at first either.

1:17:26 Also, what do you give a shit? Aren't you looking for your son? Why are you asking other questions? Yeah, just she wouldn't name your son. She didn't know for sure. She was like, is that how do you? Okay? Yes?

1:17:39 Right, she said she was unsure at the end of it. And I'm wondering, So this kid who's supposed to who's now is or isn't the Bobby Dunbar boy like goes home with this family. They have a fucking maybe a nice house and all this nice shit, and he sees his mother trying to get him back. Who's a fucking field hand. Yeah, yep, and he doesn't say anything maybe yeah, you know, he's like sad as that is well, and also he's she's the one that put him in that car with that man.

1:18:10 Yeah, and to whatever end that was, she.

1:18:14 Thought he thought she didn't want her anymore maybe and was just like, huh yeah, I'm not going back to this shit.

1:18:19 Yeah, okay yy.

1:18:23 But she takes she takes the boy back with her and season the next day or I guess in the station, she undresses him. So this fucking kid is getting undressed the left and fucking right people. She then indicated a strong certainty that the boy was her son, Bruce and not Bobby Dunbar. But of course everyone was already like, fuck you, poor lady, that's not true, you're lying. So of course, then the newspapers question her moral character because she had had three children, the other two which were deceased by that point out of wedlock, and so.

1:18:58 Her claims were dismissed. Oh yeah, but she does go.

1:19:03 To the kidnapping trial of this guy, walters and says and repeats that you know, he didn't, she didn't, he didn't kidnap my son, and the court reaches the determination that the boy was Bobby Dunbar conclusively. They were like, period, it's not this other kid, Bruce, it's Bobby Dunbar. This guy Walters is convicted of kidnapping, and the boy remains in the custody and grows up with the Dunbar family as Bobby Dunbar, the kid who had gone missing when they went camping.

1:19:30 Yeah, okay, so I think, wait, this does have a resolution. You're gonna know what happens. Yeah, oh, pretty much, please God. Okay, because this is nuts. This is like four movies combined. Yeah. Because it also reminds me of the Wineville Chicken coop murder. Yeah, there's some horrible too, that's what. Oh, it's the same thing as a changing changeling. But that chicken coop murder story is insane. It's so fucked up. But there were kids who, at the end of the we're afraid they were going to get in trouble, so they deny that they belonged to the parents that were there to claim them.

1:20:05 I'm thinking of those two things as two sad things. But it was basically just the end of the story where they were like, nope, that's not me, because they thought they were going to get like spank. Yeah, Like it's that crazy little kid mentality. Yeah, Okay, it's so sad. Okay.

1:20:19 So this this boy is raised as Bobby Dunbar, whether or not it's him for sure. He marries, has four children of his own, and dies in nineteen sixty six, having lived out the remainder of his life as Bobby Dunbar.

1:20:31 Wow this guy. Okay.

1:20:33 Years after his death, one of his granddaughters, Margaret Dunbar cut right, begins her own investigation of the events because I think it was like a family fucking story that nobody wanted to talk about. So she pours through newspaper accounts, interviews the children of Julia Anderson, the woman who claimed that that kid was hers, and they actually said to her, you know, this man came and visited, visited us, and I think it was him trying to see like the kid who was raised as Bobby Dunbar as an adult came back to the town where they lived to meet his maybe siblings. Oh and examine the notes and evidence presented at Walter's defense presented by Walter's defense attorney for his kidnapping trial and appeal.

1:21:17 In two thousand and four, after an Associated Press reporter approached.

1:21:22 The family about the story, Bobby Dunbar Junior consented to undergo a DNA test to resolve the issue. The test showed that the kid raised as Bobby Dunbar was one hundred percent not related to the Dunbar.

1:21:36 Holy shit. So that poor fucking woman that came down was like, this is my son, yeah, taken away from me. They were like, too late, We already, we already did the parade. It's this it's a tape has been tickered. Once we tick her that tame it's over, lady. You can't go back. Uh huh. It's just this whole thing too.

1:21:57 You've got to wonder like, did the parents of Bobby Dunbar know in their heart and were okay because they just couldn't come to terms with the fact that maybe their son was zad did Julia Anderson was She like, this kid has a better life now.

1:22:13 It's I'm fucking pissed, but but I'm not going to fight that hard because he's not. These are good people raised, Yeah, I know.

1:22:21 Well, okay, So apparently Julia I would speak of her lost son Bruce A lot, and that the family always regarded him as having being kidnapped by the Dunbars, so they never got over it. Okay, But there is an incredible this American life about this case called The Ghost of Bobby Dunbar. That's things from like two thousand and four.

1:22:42 I remember listening to it and just I was like painting my bedroom one weekend and had to sit down in the middle of the room just to fucking listen to it because it was so powerful.

1:22:52 It's an incredible episode.

1:22:53 She definitely listened to it, and in it, Margaret Dunbar cut right. They kind of they interview her through it. She expresses the opinion that the real Bobby Dunbar, the kid who went fucking camping and Swayze Lake, that he was probably eaten by alligator. An alligator back in nineteen twelve.

1:23:12 That's what she thinks happened. Whoa.

1:23:14 It kind of also reminds me of that someone Knows something Season one, where it's like did this kid drown or did something happen to him? Yes, it's that sort of thing too, where it's like he disappeared, did he get kidnapped?

1:23:24 Did he die? But she thinks that he probably drowned her, because it's a thing of like out in nature, it could be anything. You can't even you can't even figure out, like anything could happen. And like that idea of just an alligator going boop and that being it, like that happens.

1:23:42 All fucking Louisiana, Like, yeah, those alligators are up in there.

1:23:46 I can't believe. See this makes and I'm upset because when you look up the Wineville Chicken coop murders, yeah, or watch the movie The Changeling, you should then there should be some if you like this, read about this because that's like so fascinating. Yeah, old timey kidnappings and missing people fucking fascinating me because there was like no DNA, no phones, barely any photographs, yeah, barely forensics. Yeah yeah, fuck Bobby, the ghost of Bobby Dunbar. This American life amazing.

1:24:20 That was great.

1:24:20 And that was three creepy fucking missing people insane stories.

1:24:26 Oh my god, Okay, we're back. Are there any updates on this one?

1:24:35 So there are only updates on Asia Degrees case, which are kind of muddled, like since twenty eighteen through twenty twenty five, there's been like you know, warrants that have been executed, things have been seized. There's just a lot of suspicion around this one family, but no one in that family has been arrested in connection to the disappearance, and they deny any involvement in the case. But a one hundred thousand dollars reward is available for information leading to convictions in the case. And I feel like these days, when so many cases are being solved, this one is so solvable, and I feel like the clues are all there, just waiting to be put together, you know.

1:25:16 Yeah, at least there's still a tip line open. That's a really good sign. Yeah, that there's still like if there's evidence out there, if there's people that are going to talk at some point, there's a place for them to go.

1:25:26 And I really feel like Reddit has given this story a spotlight in a way. It's so mysterious it makes there's no you know, it's such a mysterious story, and Reddit has really like grabbed onto it and not let it kind of fade out of the public eye, which is great because I feel like those get solved when there's more pressure obviously on the investigators, and Reddit's doing that.

1:25:48 Yeah, great. Okay, so now it's time for good things of the week. This is a very special installment because for this one, George and I roll a clip from the live show in Dallas of our friend and very bad ass survivor Jennifer Morey calledwell, so here's Jennifer telling her story.

1:26:08 Should we do our favorite thing as what happened at our first show in Dallas? Yes, okay, so we Why don't you fucking tell everyone?

1:26:17 Okay, fuck in, fuck in shut up? Is that what I sound like? No? No, please, I do it all the time. No, okay. So we had a special guest at our Dallas show and it was really thrilling. Jennifer Maury Caldwell, who we talked about in episode fifty three, was it think so?

1:26:41 Yeah, yeah, said fifty fifties whatever, I justut. There's a photo of it on Instagram.

1:26:46 It was episode thirty three. Essentially, it was the I survived story that I retold of the woman who lived in the gated apartment community, specifically for the security ends up waking up the mill of nite being attacked, her powers cut, the phone's cut, a guy stabs her, and then the nine one one operator stays on the phone with her, and when the security guard comes to ask to be let in, he says, don't let him in, and it ends up that the security guard was the person who attacked her. Yeah, and it's the craziest story.

1:27:16 She tells it herself. I basically just retold her version of that story as she tells it when I survived as an episode. We heard from her some time after and just saying, Hi, I heard you know whatever, I heard this, which was a huge thing for us.

1:27:32 I think, you know, we just didn't expect that, and we've always kind of wondered what impact what we do has on people, and so getting that specifically from the victim of this story was and it was a positive email was so it felt so good.

1:27:45 Yes, it was really nice. And it was like someone going, I get exactly what you're doing and I approve and it happened to me and I approve, So that and itself was exciting. Then she lives in Dallas, so she let us know that she tried. I think she tried to get tickets and they were sold out. She was so sweet. She was like, Hey, I tried to get tickets to Dallas, but it's sold out. Do you think maybe?

1:28:09 And yes, yes. So she and her lovely family came to our shows in Dallas and she at the end of the show, instead of doing hometowns, we asked her up on stage and the audience went fucking.

1:28:24 Ballistic, and I fucking I started ugly heavy crying.

1:28:28 We all were crying, and I think everyone in the audience was crying, and basically, she so she we basically want to play this moment for you. We don't want to wait until whenever it comes up that we're going to play this live episode because it was just so cool and so I don't know, there's probably a lot of long silences, because there's definitely the moments where we're hugging or just crying or whatever. But it was just really an honor and a privilege to meet her. She's the coolest woman. She is so chill. She's a lawyer, got this beautiful family who all came with her, who were also super cool. And she also told us backstage the nine one one operator from her story, it was his first day on the job. It was the second

1:29:12 nine one one call he had ever taken, and he they ended up they were lifelong friends. She danced with him at her wedding like that. He was the third person that she danced with at her wedding. You know she it was just the coolest we we got to meet her and talk to her honor to be part of this. So here's that moment. Now. Normally this is the part where we do a hometown but we actually tonight, tonight, we have a surprise guest for you that were very very excited to bring out on stage.

1:29:44 So special guest that we want to introduce you guys.

1:29:46 To and you you actually you got expense. You might remember because we talked about her case on one of our episodes, and she is here in the audience tonight with us. I don't remember the number of she's walking down right now. She's been in the audience with you this whole time. Her story was on an episode of I Survived hern It. That's Jennifer Morey Caldwell right there.

1:30:41 I'm here.

1:30:57 Oh my god, how do you guys doing?

1:31:04 You can turn the lights? Hi, Hi, It's nice to see you. You guys too. So we when we did this episode where I, all I did was retell Jennifer's story from her words from an episode of I survived because I'm lazy. Sometimes I just do I like to do stuff like that, but also because the story was so incredible and the way she told it was so incredible.

1:31:32 It's one of my favorite episodes.

1:31:34 Sorry, sorry if you told my story so beautifully that the night I heard it my husband, I drank a whole bottle of wine and.

1:31:45 I cried and I cried and I cried. Oh God, you honored me when you told my story. Thank you. That's so nice. Thank you. Where are those tissues? Tell me take it on? And they went for Jennifer. That's all we have. I mean, we're just gone. After that episode, you sent us an email and then we freaked out and we couldn't believe it because a lot of times when we do these stories and we do this stuff, we never knew any of this part was gonna happen, Like for a long time, we did this podcast in George's apartment talking to each other, so the idea that the person we're talking about responded and was like yay, it was the most. It was just so exciting and so cool. And so then you emailed us and we're like,

1:32:43 can I come to a show? When you come to Dallas and we're like, yeah, we can get you in right, I take it. Yeah.

1:32:58 So yeah, you know, I'm a lawyer, and if you guys know my attack story, my ta's not part of my daily life.

1:33:13 I can't let it be.

1:33:15 And so I'm sitting in my office one day last September October and I had a lawyer say to me, your maiden names more right, And I'm like yeah, she goes, you're attacked right, yeah, and she.

1:33:32 Goes, oh my god. There was this podcast on at last night and it floored me.

1:33:42 And so I went home that night and I told my husband I think there's this thing, and.

1:33:47 So we like.

1:33:48 Googled and found this thing.

1:33:50 And we sat there and listened to it and it wasn't something I was really prepared to listen to. But I have to say again, and I listened to it again yesterday to get ready. You talked about me like you are my friend, and I'm good cried again. It was a horrible experience, don't get me wrong. Yeah, but God has I mean a god or whatever, has has blessed me so much. And I've got my husband, Gary and my two kids are here tonight, so everybody here if you ever have anything terrible happen to you, and unfortunately too many of us will have something terrible happen to us. I hope it doesn't happen to you. Which show talks a lot about anxiety. I've become a murderingo.

1:34:55 My daughter is fifteen, and she probably shouldn't listen to the show as she does.

1:35:01 On road trips.

1:35:02 We listened to this, and anyway, if something bad ever happens to anybody out there, I hope you guys have something as I mean, God, this has just been such a gift to have you honor me and to have people all over the world reach out to me anonom me. So thank you and what you do. We're all fascinated and horrified by these crimes, but the way you bring laughter to what you could cry or laugh pick one, let's laugh.

1:35:34 So thank you guys. Yay name and we're back.

1:35:47 I just have chills even thinking about that moment in Dallas and her coming on stage and the audience she I mean, my god, it was huge.

1:35:57 Once in a lifetime. Also what she was like as a person, so warm and lovely, yeah, and so all about it, like yeah, that was a real honor and just I mean, everybody felt it. It was such a cool shared experience. Yeah. So this episode was originally titled Jesus with It. No, let's change it. That's terrible. So if we did change it, we could rename it. What that leave me Alone thing?

1:36:24 I love so much? That's you saying that do not disturb sign? What's it called that talk about being in perimenopause. It's like that moment you were like, couldn't think of the.

1:36:33 Word do not disturb, so right on a nice hot mic that.

1:36:37 Leave me alone thing?

1:36:39 That leave me alone thing? Also very obvious. But my sister's dying. There's a lot of people that probably wouldn't like that title, but the people who knew would think it was very funny. There's Fabio of the Amish, because that horrible man is slightly attracted and then cry or laugh.

1:36:53 Pick one, which is what Jennifer says on stage, and we just think that one's incredible. I think that's the one.

1:36:59 Yeah, obviously, what if we just pick one of our dumb random ones Fabio of the Amish. It's settled forever and ever. Okay, that's this week's episode of rewind. Thanks for being here. You guys. Thanks guys.

1:37:14 Now let's say goodbye with Jennifer from our Dallas live show. We are so honored to have you guys, amazing, this means so much to us.

1:37:27 Thank you and thank you guys for being here and say sexy thanks