Shocking Truth About How the Pyramids Were Built with Luke Caverns

0:00 Welcome to Next Level Soul, the place where we deep dive into the mysteries of existence, uncover hidden layers of consciousness, and explore the journey of the soul. I'm your host, Alex Ferrari, and every week we sit down with the world's leading spiritual teachers, mystics, scientists, and truth seekers to illuminate the path towards awakening. Here we ask.

0:22 Questions that truly matter. Why are we here? Where are we going?

0:27 And how do we elevate our lives, our purpose, and our consciousness to the next level? This is a space for transformation, a space for expansion, a space to remember who you really are. So take a deep breath, open your mind, and prepare to step into your next level soul. Now, if you're ready to take your spiritual journey to the next level, explore Next Level Soul TV, our streaming platform filled with exclusive movies, docs, original shows, transformative series, guided meditations, channeling sessions, audiobooks, and deep spiritual teachings you won't find anywhere else. New content drops every week, helping you expand your consciousness and live from your highest potential. Start your journey today at nextlevelsoul.tv. The views, opinions, and statements expressed

1:18 by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the beliefs or positions of Next Level Soul, its host, or any of the companies they represent. Now let's dive into today's episode. I'd like to welcome to the show Luke Caverns. How you doing, Luke?

1:34 I'm doing awesome, man. Thank you so much for having me on.

1:36 Thank you so much for driving all the way over here to come into the studio, man. Because we originally were going to do this on Zoom, and I'm like, where do you... Oh, you're not that far away from me. Just come on over and we'll do a sit-down, man. So I appreciate you making the trip out here, man.

1:50 Yeah, yeah. Well, it took us a couple times having to re. Scheduled the podcast, but, uh, yeah, I'm glad that the first time we're doing this is in person and it's a real treat to be here and see your studio and meet you. And, and, uh, yeah, it's, uh, for people watching, it's pretty amazing to see somebody start a virtual, you know, podcast and move to in person. It's, it's such a leap that, uh, I just want to publicly acknowledge that. It's pretty amazing, man.

2:17 Thanks so much, man. I appreciate that. Yeah. I've been, I've been hustling for a long time with this, man. So I appreciate those words. But I wanted to have you on the show, man, because your take on ancient mysteries, lost history, ancient civilizations is super, super cool. And I like to geek out about that. So we're going to go deep down multiple rabbit holes in this conversation because you came all the way out here. So we're going to just go into it and go at it. Sounds great.

2:44 So I got to ask you, what was the thing that got you interested going down this road of ancient civilizations, ancient mysteries? Because It's not the most lucrative of professions if archaeologists tell us the truth. Sure, yeah. Unless you're grave robbers and you're Indiana Jones, and that's a different conversation.

3:03 Yeah, that can be profitable, if not deadly. Exactly. So my earliest– it's been interesting. Going down this path, I hadn't really taken much time to sit and think about how the journey has played out. um, until I started coming on podcasts and I had to talk about it. And so I've spent a lot of time thinking about, you know, what are my, what are some of my first memories of falling in love with ancient history? I actually think that the very first memory that I have is maybe 2005. And my parents are having over some of their, some of their friends, and they basically banished me to my room and they're having some of their friends over to watch a movie. They banished me to my room And they say, you know, the movie we're watching,

3:52 it's not appropriate. You go in and watch Star Wars on VHS. And I remember I'm sitting there watching Attack of the Clones on VHS and my little, you know, old box TV. And I hear this like thunderous sound of swords clashing and people yelling in the next room. And my parents, my dad had a theater room. So when the bass would rumble, it would shake the house a little bit. And so I open up the door and I look and I see this, I see this just, battle scene of these two ancient uh armies clashing against each other and so i walk up and there was there's a glass door to the theater room and i walk up and i'm not supposed to there were tons of movies i wasn't supposed to watch but um and so i walk up and i'm sitting outside this glass

4:36 door and all i hear is this low rumbling coming through the doors and i'm just watching these two ancient armies go at each other and it's just a very visceral memory that i have uh I had never seen anything like that. And maybe it was the fact that my parents were telling me I couldn't watch it. Of course.

4:55 And so I sit down on the floor outside of the theater room and I watch like two and a half hours of this movie without really hearing much of it at all. And I don't know, I think just the imagery, like so many people throughout the last two, three thousand years that were obsessed with the ancient past before them, something about it just resonated with me deeply.

5:18 And even from the time that I was a little kid, it was like something in the ancient world was calling out to me and grabbing my heart. And I never lost it. On top of that, as I started getting older, my dad would tell me more about his dad and his grandfather and his great-grandfather, all of which were antiquarians and amateur archaeologists and treasure hunters in the American Southwest.

5:43 And so they spent... They made their money in oil, of which we don't have any of that money now. But they made all their money in oil, and basically they used that oil money to fund expeditions searching for lost Spanish gold and lost Native American treasures. And my grandfather on my dad's side, he discovered the seven lost gold mines of New Mexico. It's like a big legend in New Mexico. And then probably I want to say 70 years before that in the 1890s, my great great great grandfather is involved if you pick up a book that's like the legends of texas there's one called the bill kelly mine and it's about it's about the four reagan brothers and that's my paternal last name and those four brothers one of which is my great great great

6:31 great grandfather get caught in this 60-year treasure hunt for this lost spanish gold that's that's down in the canyons of big ben and so i just grew up hearing these stories and and in the end um there was a gold mine operation that exploded and somebody died and they lost all their wealth. And my dad was born in the fallout of that poverty that came afterwards. So my dad did not pick up the fascination for ancient history and exploration. My dad just had to climb his way out of a really bad life. I picked up the fascination through my dad. So I guess that was sort of in my blood, even though I didn't know any of those guys, but it just, I kind of ruminated on, you know, what my forefathers had done before me.

7:15 And that kind of inspired this sense of, oh man, I want to do something like that, be an explorer and discover ancient things. I have a whole bunch of Native American artifacts that they discovered in a box in North Carolina where my parents are at. On my mom's side, my grandpa, he was a traveling missionary, but I guess he was kind of like a biblical historian as well.

7:37 So he cared about the world that the Bible took place in. And when I was, I remember sitting in church, hearing him preach. The most fascinating parts of that was when he would put you in the shoes of people living in the near East at the time, um, and put you in their shoes of what their life was like.

7:57 And I didn't realize, but that was the beginning of, of me becoming an anthropologist. Cause I was curious about what their actual lives were like. So my dad's side, I have this sense of adventure and discovery on my grandpa's side. I have this, um, I had this historian influence and I guess an anthropological influence. And those two things just pushed me my entire life towards where I'm at now. And then the last thing is my dad and I, the way that we bond still today is watching historical movies or historical documentaries and pausing it every 30 seconds to talk for 15 minutes about something, you know, and then resume it. And so, yeah, all of my familial influences pushed me towards history. and I guess sort

8:42 of being an explorer along with it.

8:44 And your DNA, obviously. Yeah, yeah. There's no question it's in the blood. Maybe so.

8:49 It's generational.

8:51 I mean, you could just, as you're laying it all out, it's just generational that you were almost destined. Like if you were on the other side and you're writing out a soul blueprint or a soul plan, I'm like, what do I want to do this life? I really want to be like, I want to go into like adventures and archaeology and stuff. Oh, this family. Go in this one.

9:08 This one will walk you right through.

9:11 What's really interesting is I think when I was in kindergarten, we had like a career day in kindergarten. But it was actually like your school picture day. But you would pick your outfit that would match with what you wanted to do.

9:26 What was it?

9:26 And I did not know, but I put on Theodore Roosevelt's, like his ranger hat. Or was it– was he a ranger or.

9:35 A cowboy hat?

9:36 Yeah, it was, it was his field hat. I put, I put something like that on and I put, uh, sort of like a, like a duster jacket on kind of like an explorer. And I had the, I had the binoculars and I have, that is my kindergarten class photo is me as an explorer. And my mom, I didn't know about this until maybe a couple of years ago.

9:54 And my mom pulled that out and framed it for me and gave it to me for Christmas.

9:58 Oh, that's beautiful.

9:59 Yeah, and so now that photo sits on one of our bookshelves at home. But yeah, I mean, even in kindergarten, you know.

10:06 It was there, man.

10:07 It was there.

10:08 So I have to ask you, though, what was the movie with the two ancient armies were fighting each other? I have a feeling I know what it is.

10:14 What do you think it was?

10:15 It's The Mummy.

10:17 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show.

10:26 The Mummy? No, no, it wasn't The Mummy. I'll tell you what, though. I'll tell you what. I was so scared to watch The Mummy for the longest time. My dad was always telling me, oh, we got to watch this movie. We got to watch this movie. And he had this little drawer with VHS tapes in it. And the one that was always sitting on top was The Mummy, where you see Brendan Fraser and the woman that's there.

10:47 But then you have the face.

10:48 The sand, the sand.

10:49 Yeah, and I never wanted to watch it because it looked too scary. But I ended up watching The Mummy maybe, I don't know, at some point shortly after that. But it was actually Troy.

10:58 Okay.

10:58 All right. Troy, that's a much better movie.

11:01 That started my– Troy, really? That started everything for me.

11:03 That's a great movie.

11:05 That's the earliest memory I have of falling in love with ancient history. And then, you know, I don't know, maybe I'm five or six and I'm kind of learning to read. And so I'm flipping through my grandfather's– on my mom's side, flipping through his ancient history books, and I could read the word Troy, T-R-O-Y, and I'd take it to my grandpa, and I would have him read to me about Troy in this book. And so it's this book called Lost Cities, and I ended up stealing it from him, I don't know, sometime when I was like 10 years old, and I never gave it back.

11:36 I think he's okay with it.

11:37 Yeah, yeah, he's definitely okay with it.

11:41 And it's funny, going down into, it's a good segue into Lost Cities, because Troy was a myth. For the longest time. Everyone was like, ah, it's just an analogy. It's something like, you know, it's just a folklore, if you will. But then they found it. They actually found Troy. So that, and I want to hear your point of view on this, that kind of things are happening more and more now where things that were thought to be legend, they're finding proof of. Like they did that, there was that city off the coast of India that they found underneath the ocean. That was a city that Was myth.

12:18 And they're like, no, they found it.

12:20 Yeah, that's happening everywhere.

12:22 It's starting to happen more and more. And established archaeology or traditional archaeology or archaeologists, mainstream archaeology, which sticks to the narrative that's been thrown at them from 100 years ago, which we'll get into the pyramids in Egypt and all that in a minute. But the old guard is having a problem. you know, rectifying the way they think about things because it's been, that's always what I found fascinating about mainstream archaeologists is that they think that what they know is the end all be all and there is no room for new ideas or new things to come up. Yeah, new ideas and new things could come up, but they can't move the needle too much. Yeah. If they move the needle too much, you're like, no, no, no, no,

13:11 but that's what it was said a hundred years ago. Where I would imagine that a field like archaeology and anthropology is a field that is a constant state of change, constant state of movement because you're finding out new information, new technologies, DNA. They can go in and look at things or carbon dating. Other things that weren't available 50 years ago is now available. New information is being found here.

13:37 new ancient civilizations are found in the Amazon or something like that, that confirm myths or something like that. How do you think that, because you're obviously the new guard, and Ed, who was on the show before, who was one of your teachers, Ed Burnett, who's a wonderful, wonderful teacher, leans more towards the older guard. Not that he's not open to things, and I'm not trying to put in on the spot, but two very different generations. how do you see this moving forward? And why do you think the older generation is so like they, they, their minds are closed. And by the way, it's not just archeology, it's physics. It's all of, it's all of it. It's all of it. Yeah. Wow.

14:19 There's a lot to unpack there. Um, yeah. So first, uh, yeah, Dr. Barnhart, uh, professor of mine and, uh, I still travel with him. Like I think this year he and I are doing five trips together. Um, so we're very, very close friends and yeah, sure. I mean, he's, he's, uh, he's an archaeologist, you know, I guess academic, actually, I should say like world-class academic through and through. And, um, but he, he has actually more of an open mind than a lot.

14:46 I would have, I would have to agree with you. Yeah. And, um, a bit more than others. Yeah.

14:50 Yeah. And I, he's not, you know, he's not on, he's not jumping on the Atlantis ship, but he's got all kinds of ideas.

14:56 Atlantis ship? Atlantis? What do you mean? What's the Atlantis ship?

14:59 Well, well, you know, there's, there's this whole push now that, um, we, I say you had this whole push. You have A lot of people who are diving into Atlantis is kind of like the umbrella term for all of it. But people are interested in lost civilizations that are kind of haven't quite been identified. And I don't know, you know, you look at the dialogues of Plato talking about, you know, the story of Atlantis. That kind of becomes the umbrella term.

15:26 And so there's kind of like Graham Hancock's idea. There's this idea that there was a globe spanning civilization 12,000 years ago. And people just put the title on that as Atlantis.

15:35 Sure. It's not necessarily.

15:36 Okay.

15:36 Got it.

15:37 Dr. Barnhart is not jumping on that, but he has tons of other ideas that aren't commonly accepted. Um, and what I'm hoping is that as time goes on, I'm not an academic. I went to school for anthropology, but I'm not an academic, but I am hoping that the younger generation that's coming in and maybe with the, with the advent of just an explosion of technology, um, that people are going to become more open to paradigm shifting a lot, you know?

16:08 Don't you agree that right now our paradigm's shifting almost daily in our life? I mean, AI, when did AI show up?

16:15 Oh my God.

16:16 AI showed up, what, a year ago?

16:17 Yeah.

16:17 A year and a half?

16:18 I mean, really, really showed up.

16:20 Like, really showed up. Like, when it became, it's part of the zeitgeist. It's been around for a long time. YouTube's been using AI since 2010. Sure. And so many others. But, like, now it's everywhere. Yeah. And it's, Going faster and faster and faster and faster. So our paradigm is shifting constantly.

16:35 And yet a lot of these academic fields are moving like molasses.

16:40 I'll give you a specific example of what I think is wrong with academia right now.

16:48 You have.

16:48 I'm not going to say his name, although he deserves for me to say his name.

16:52 Don't get in trouble, sir.

16:53 I don't want you to get canceled, sir. There is an archaeologist who's very well– he's a world-respected academic. Dr.

17:01 Jones.

17:01 Dr.

17:01 Jones. Dr. Jones. I understand.

17:03 Dr.

17:03 Indiana Jones. I understand.

17:04 Go ahead.

17:05 Call him out. It's OK. It's OK. He's old now. It's fine.

17:08 Yeah. He– I don't know. He's a professor out of the Midwest and he specializes in ancient South and Central– or Central and South American– archaeology. And he is probably like the most vehement, vicious archaeologist that I have ever seen. And he's a part of the organization that was trying to get Graham Hancock's Ancient Apocalypse taken down off of Netflix.

17:37 Good luck for that, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's a part of that group. And he even blocked me on Twitter. I'd never even interacted with this guy.

17:45 But just... Because you say what you say. Sure, sure.

17:47 And because I'm open to ideas. I'm not crusading anything in particular. But because I'm open to certain ideas and because I'm associated with people or friends with people.

17:57 Or shows of.

17:58 God forbid I'm friends with people who have slightly different views about ancient history than me. He's a zealot, essentially. Yeah, exactly. And so he blocked me because of the people I'm associated with. He has tweeted about me more than 50 times since he blocked me, which is like the most slimy thing you could do. And he's probably one of the guys that's like the best example I can give of somebody who is totally fine with the status quo, you know, and doesn't really care about pushing anything of real significance forward. Now, why is that? Because he wrote the textbooks and he sells $ 180 textbooks to people. His students at university have to buy his textbooks, and his textbooks have the information that he doesn't want to be changed.

18:44 He's just one example of hundreds of people in all fields of academia that are essentially gatekeeping the future. So it's going to take this old guard to literally die before things start moving forward. And I don't know. Maybe this next generation people that are my age or so, maybe they become exactly like that again.

19:05 I don't know.

19:06 But I just hope that this next generation looks at the state of the world and kind of realizes that people are going to have to put their egos to the side for the betterment of the world.

19:25 It seems almost like that. I think that the new generation, I don't think that's going to be a problem because the new generation, information is changing so rapidly. There are no trends. textbooks in the way that they were before. They have to print them and they have to sit there and they're constantly being updated. All this information is constantly being updated. Shows like this is getting information out to the public in ways that you would normally have to go into an act environment to have conversations like this or even to look into this stuff like the History Channel and podcasts like this where we can go in deeper. But the information is changing so rapidly that I don't think that the New Guard– that is coming

20:08 in is going to have an issue with that because I don't think they'll have control over it. Not like the old guard did. The old guard, like you wrote a book, that book didn't change for 50 years. Like, you know, it was locked in. And if you wrote it, you have definitely an incentive to keep it there. As opposed to like, hey, maybe they're right. Let me rewrite the book for edition five. And sorry, guys, this is a constantly changing field. We're updating things constantly. So what we taught you last year Probably we found something new that changes that.

20:39 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

20:49 Yeah.

20:50 Is the egg the healthy part? The yolk the healthy part? Or the egg white the healthy part? I remember that. That was a debate when I was coming up. First they're like, no, no, no. The egg white's horrible. That's the bad part for you. Now it's the egg yolk. Then they switch it around. I remember that as a kid.

21:04 I'm like.

21:05 Guys, can we, at least with the egg, can we at least figure that out? Can you imagine?

21:10 Just eat the egg, man.

21:11 Just eat the egg. It's going to be okay. All right, so let's dive into something real quick. The worldwide civilization that Graham Hancock talks about. I love Graham. I think what Graham is doing is remarkable. Whether you agree with everything or not, he's asking questions. And he's forcing dialogues that might have not been And that's what a good investigator does, just posing questions. Now, this idea of this from 14,000 years ago, there was this worldwide civilization. I love a good story because I'm a filmmaker. So I love a good story. And I love his ancient apocalypse show and all of this stuff. There are elements of that theory that make sense to me. I I don't know if there's enough information to say that there was

22:06 one worldwide civilization that all of a sudden crashed down because even Rome, which was a huge empire and ran for about a thousand years, which is pretty damn good, wasn't the whole world. Could it be? Possibly. But man, it's been wiped out completely. I don't think that that... This is my own personal opinion. I don't think that there was something that big. Maybe there was. I think there might have been two or three. There could have been an Atlantean civilization. There could have been Lumeria. There could have been a couple other big civilizations. That's a possibility.

22:46 What are your thoughts on pre-Younger Dryas? Do you agree with the Younger Dryas theory in general that something happened 12,000 years ago that caused... I mean, the way he lays it out in that show and with Randall Carson and what Graham is talking about, they lay out a very convincing hypothesis, very convincing, where there's actual, it seems to be geological proof, things like that. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that whole thing, sir.

23:15 Yeah, yeah. So to start us off, the Younger Dryas Hypothesis, people, you know, it's amazing that we somehow know for certain what killed off the dinosaurs, but people still haven't figured out what happened 12,000 years ago. You know?

23:35 There's no textbooks talking about the dinosaur stuff that's that important.

23:39 Sure, sure, yeah. I think that there's definitely enough evidence that something cataclysmic happened to end the Ice Age. I think that A plausible argument is that a large chunk of meteors from the torrid meteor stream hit the North Atlantic ice cap and just instantly heated up the world and ended the ice age. And so you have this global flooding and the sea levels rise and everything. And I can say almost certainly without a doubt that maybe the majority of humanity died during that time period. I mean, we have... We lost 85% of our wildlife species in North America. You ever notice when you go to a museum, there's not really, or when you go to a zoo, there's not really a North America section because we have

24:29 like rabbits, fox, deer, bear, wolf. We used to have- We.

24:35 Have moose and a couple of other things. Sure, sure. But no, you're right. It's not like Africa.

24:39 Yeah, yeah. We used to have all of those species. You know, we had giant camels. We had elephants. We had woolly mammoths. We had saber-toothed tigers. We had dire wolves. we had something called the American lion, which looked exactly like the African lion, but twice as large. And so- And the bear too, isn't there a giant bear as well?

24:58 The short-faced bear.

24:59 Yeah, the short-faced bear.

25:00 They think that the short-faced bear was a barrier that stopped people from coming across the Bering Strait, or the Bering Strait, Strait of Gibraltar? I always get those.

25:07 Bering Strait. Bering Strait, yeah, yeah. Up north.

25:10 And they think that that bear was so vicious that it was a barrier stopping people from coming into the Americas. Although we know that that's not true. There were people here before, before the ice age. Um, now we do how many, I don't know, but, um, yeah, I mean, all those species are gone and, and that's just to name a few. I didn't even mention the giant sloth.

25:33 I don't think there's so many, um, all those species are gone. So you can imagine that if anybody was here in North America, they're gone and people all around the world, the sea levels rise. You have people who are living along the coastlines, you know, at I don't really know if 12,000 years ago, there are people living farther inland because the amount of trekking.

25:55 Yeah.

25:55 Yeah. I mean, you know, it's, it's tough to live further inland unless you're living along a huge body of water, but, um, a lot of people died. A lot of coastal people died, probably the majority of humanity died. So I totally agree with that as far as a 12,000 year old or pre ice age or ice age civilization. I don't see it being impossible at all. I mean, they say that the, they say that modernly or modern or anatomically modern human beings have been around for 200,000, maybe even 300,000 years.

26:27 And so they didn't really do anything of significance until 6,000 years ago. It took them at the very least 194,000 years to build a town. How do you– With the same brain, right?

26:43 We have the same brain.

26:43 With the same brain. With the same brain. You had people that were as smart as Einstein living 150,000 years ago. Yeah, that doesn't make a lot of sense. So the likelihood is that there were civilizations– the likelihood is I bet you there are civilizations that existed before. 100,000 years ago. How sophisticated?

27:04 I don't know. But if you think about it, though, on a logical standpoint, if there was a civilization like ours right now, exactly, just take our civilization, put it 100,000 years ago, and there's a cataclysmic, something happens. Meteor hits, the Yellowstone volcano explodes, whatever that kills most. 100,000 years, nothing's left. None of this. There's no styrofoam. There's no plastic.

27:30 It's all gone. It's all been worked on, and the earth has just taken it back. In 100,000 years, it could all be– there would be not– there wouldn't be bones left, barely, unless it was hidden in a certain way. But generally speaking, it would be– I know it's hard to believe, but there was a show once on History called– oh, God, I forgot the name of it, but it was like What if all the humans left or something like that? Oh, really? And it was such a fascinating show because they would literally show like, if all humanity left today, how long would it take for New York to go? And they just look, here's a thousand, here's 500 years from now. The Empire State Building would crash because they would, you know, they said that the

28:10 last thing humanity would have made that would still be functioning is the Hoover Dam. Take about 100, 120 years for it to, the gears, the little things to pop and stop. So Vegas would be the last city to lose lights.

28:25 Didn't they engrave something on the Hoover Dam for future civilizations to.

28:30 I've been there twice. I saw a bunch of stuff that they have there, like engravings and things like that.

28:35 Because they know it's going to last forever.

28:36 It's not going away. It's the one thing that humanity in the current day has made that's almost as equivalent of lasting as long as a pyramid. It's just so... It was such a massive... I mean, have you been there?

28:51 No, I haven't, but I want to go there.

28:52 It's just like, you're just there, and you're like, oh, Jesus, man. You can't even comprehend what they put in there.

28:57 A ton of people died in that, right?

28:59 Oh, inside of it.

28:59 A ton of people fell in the concrete.

29:01 Oh, absolutely. I mean, it was a whole other time.

29:02 Dude, I bet you there has to be, not to get off in the weeds, but there has to be bodies of people who are crushed by stones on the pyramids, and they're like, well, he's stuck down there.

29:13 But they're gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they're gone. So that's my point. So if there were civilizations 100,000 years ago, You know, how about if we reset every 10, 15,000 years? Every 10 or 15,000 years we reset. If you look into the yugas, you know the yugas, the Indian cycle of... You start from, it's like 24,000 years, it's a 12,000 year cycle. You start at the top and you're an enlightened species, meaning that you are as close to source as possible. So you have access to more information, you have access to more knowledge and so on. And then as you start going down in time in that cycle, you start getting dumber and farther away from ignorant and you start losing your connection with source. I'm getting a

29:57 little spiritual here.

29:59 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show.

30:09 And then when you get all the way to the bottom of that, which is 12,000, which was about 12,000 years ago. Oh, really?

30:15 Wow.

30:16 Give or take. No, excuse me. I'm mistaken on the time period. But when we were at the lowest point was the Dark Ages. Because if you remember, why in this last 150 years we have done insane things. but we were sitting around for 600, 400 years, 500 years, nothing happened.

30:34 Once Rome- Quite a long time.

30:35 When Rome fell, nothing. Like it was the dark ages, not one thing. Then the Renaissance came and that's when we started to come back out. So we're now on the upward swing and that's why, at least from a spiritual standpoint, we're supposedly accessing a lot more information. Things are starting to move much faster and there's no argument of that. I mean, I always wonder like, how is it in the last 150 years? We've done. I mean, my grandpa, when he was born, there was no cars, no planes. Electricity was a thing recently. I mean, and now, you know, when he died, the internet was in its infancy.

31:15 Like AOL was kicking in when he died. And when I was born, you know, I was born in the 70s. From the 70s to today, good Lord, how much have we changed? So it's so much information. So that's the cycle. So imagine if we are every 25,000 years recycling, like literally just something happens. Okay, they didn't get it this time.

31:36 Let's reset. And we start the ball over again with some sort of cataclysmic thing. There is geological proof for multiple younger dry or there's a younger dry. So then there's a couple other dry.

31:49 There's multiple events over the course of 1200 years or so.

31:53 Yeah, there's about 12,000, 1200.

31:55 There's multiple events over the course. So I want to say that the Younger Dryas begins, I'm not an expert in this, but these are some rough dates. It begins around 12,800 years ago and it ends around 11,600 years ago. So that's like a 1200 year time span that multiple events happened. to end the Ice Age.

32:20 It wasn't just like one thing that just knocked that over the weekend.

32:24 They think maybe right at the very end, that's what happened.

32:26 There was one thing, but there was a bunch of things happening.

32:28 Yes.

32:29 So if a bunch of things were happening, that could have given the people of the Earth, at least people who were in tune to that, the warning to build those underground cities in Turkey.

32:47 Oh, yeah.

32:48 Or the ones that they're discovering in China. I mean, did you see the one in China? That cavern system?

32:53 Yes, I've seen something about this on Twitter.

32:55 Oh, my God. I mean, they still don't... And there's no record of it. They have no idea who built it. And it is massive underground, beautifully carved with things inside the walls. It was stunning. Yeah. And then also in India and all around the world, there are these underground or inside mountain... that people could have very easily lived.

33:20 So that kind of lines up. Like if they started seeing things like, oh man, oh shoot, we better start doing something about this.

33:28 Yeah, yeah. You know, we're kind of at a point where it's anybody's best guess as to what ancient cultures were doing and what they were in tune to. Sometimes something I try to think about is think about how Utterly handicapped we are in modern society. There's no way that we could go out into the wilderness and survive on our own. All the times I've been in the jungle, if I actually had to live out there, I would die.

33:56 Of course. Think about– you know how animals seem to intuitively predict– be able to predict the weather?

34:04 Yes.

34:04 And you– Birds and stuff. I visit indigenous people in the jungles of Central America and they're living– in a different frequency, a different, I should say they're attuned to different things than we are. And so how do you, as a modern person, I walk around with a crutch all day, my phone in my pocket, my car, my air conditioning. How can I, with all of my books and everything that I read all the time, how can I ever think that I can accurately understand put myself in the shoes of an ancient person and be able to definitively say what they were and were not aware of, you know? Just they're, I mean, we're studying Martians, basically.

34:55 They lived a completely different life than we do. Imagine how much you would be able to soak up if you lived outside every single day. I say outside, just a much more... Natural. Yeah, a much more natural way of life than we have today. imagine how much you would soak up and know, like you would be able, when the birds stop chirping, you go, okay, there's something, there's a, there's other predator around, or there's going to be a storm. Let me look at the sky. You know, you could, you could, you could, you could smell it in the air. You could feel it in the wind.

35:27 Like we are just so, our pineal gland is just so calloused now, you know, and literally calloused or, or calcified, I should say, you know, we're just so disconnected from this outer world that exists around us. I'm kind of getting off in the woo now. But this is the, you know, this is the time to talk about that.

35:48 But yeah, I think that there are, I think that there's definitely a natural energy that people connect to, that you're supposed to be connected to. And I think that over the last, I don't know, since the Industrial Revolution, we're just slowly getting more and more and more disconnected from the way we're supposed to be living. And I think that we're not really at all in a place where we can definitively say what was and wasn't happening some 12,000 years ago and what people may have not been able to look. Gosh, you could have astronomers back then who were aware of different phenomena in the sky to perhaps be able to predict meteor showers or something that was going to enter into their atmosphere and they

36:34 need to burrow under the ground and build cities underneath the ground. Just who knows, man?

36:40 Or maybe.

36:41 you know, you have those initial events in the Younger Dryas, you have these meteors from the Torrid meteor stream pelting the earth. And then all of a sudden, all these people are like, okay, we got to go underground because when it hits the earth, perhaps it raises the temperature, all of your agriculture dies off. So you need to move underground. You know, there's just so many things that could happen.

37:01 You know, I was talking to Christopher Dunn the other day on the show, and it was something that I came up, I told him this, and he completely agreed with me on it, is that We have built this technology and this technological advancements that we've built on archaic energy. Yeah. We are burning things to get electricity.

37:21 Yeah, yeah.

37:23 We are so fragile as a society. Anyone who's lost power in their house for more than an hour understands how absolutely vulnerable we are in this world, in the modern world. Because all this technology is great, but Wi-Fi goes out, internet goes out. This is absolutely useless. Absolutely useless. It does nothing for you. You know, everything without electricity, this room is just a box that sounds cool. No one can hear you screaming. Literally. I always find that fascinating that we've spent so much energy on creating technology, but we have not focused any energy on how to actually get energy in a more efficient, more robust way.

38:13 Like we are so burnt. We're basically cavemen.

38:17 Yeah.

38:17 We're burning firewood or oil to get electricity.

38:23 You know, some, some, that's funny that you just said, um, when you said, you know, if something happened, like if our, if our electric grid went off and we are, you know, say we can't power our phones anymore or something, I think, you know, archeologists, I don't know, say, say, um, It reminds me of people trying to study the cults of Dionysus in Pompeii. So Pompeii, Mount Vesuvius erupts and covers the city of Pompeii in a wall of ash. It's excavated, you know, officially excavated some 1800 years later. And they end up finding these rooms for the cult of Dionysus.

39:01 And when you said, you know, this sounds like a really cool box, my brain immediately went to, yeah.

39:08 Okay.

39:08 So say a volcano erupts or something and people excavate this room 2000 years later, they would walk in and they would go, you hear the sound canceling in here? Look at these old oracles that people are speaking into. This must have been a silence cult temple that people would come into.

39:27 Right. Absolutely.

39:29 And because it was so quiet, they could hear, maybe they thought they could hear the voices and the microphones or the way that they spoke to the gods. It's like, no, that's not at all what this was meant for. That's what archaeology is doing. We're probably so... Far off. Oh, I was with Dr. Barnhart in the Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City and And we were looking at the Maya gods and he was like, yeah, you know, they don't really have a lot of love in their culture, do they? You know, you don't see a lot of joy like you see in other cultures. He's like, they're very macabre and kind of scary.

40:02 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

40:12 But on the other hand, we're probably just dead wrong about everything that we think about these people.

40:16 Absolutely.

40:16 And so that's what... That's kind of giving your audience an idea of like if people excavate this room 2,000 years from now, they're going to have absolutely no idea what they're looking at.

40:25 Yeah, all the books would be gone. So then all this knowledge is all paper. So it would all be gone. I doubt that this room would be around in 2,000 years. But let's say argument.

40:31 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

40:32 For argument's sake that this is made out of cement.

40:36 Yeah.

40:36 This is made out of like Roman cement, not hard cement.

40:39 Sure, sure.

40:40 Roman cement that's going to last 2,000 years. And if it does, you're absolutely right. They're going to. find some, you know, maybe they'll find some of these resin.

40:49 They'll think this was... These are the gods. Yeah, this was the... This is the shrine with the silence gods.

40:56 Right.

40:56 You walk into the temple and you can't hear anything.

40:58 Yeah, yeah. Well, so... Well, isn't that basically what the theories of the Great Pyramids were? It was basically, you know, some British archaeologists, and this is my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong, some British archaeologists who first came into it walked into the Great Pyramid and they said, oh, this must be a tomb for the Pharaoh. And yeah, look, there's a sarcophagus looking thing. That's what this is. And that theory, which is a dude's idea, has been held onto by mainstream archaeologists all these years, though there is no proof that any bodies have ever been found there, that anything that connects to any other tombs that they found in Egypt, all other tombs are completely different. And

41:45 nothing has ever been– but yet they still hold on to the idea that the Great Pyramid is a tomb when there's absolutely, truly no proof whatsoever that it was other than a British archaeologist from the 1800s who said that. Is that correct?

41:59 Partly, yeah. There's a lot that goes into that. So where– to us in the modern day, the earliest literary source that we get that the pyramids were used, that the great pyramids of Giza, because that's, you know, it's different than the pyramid of Unas, but if we're talking about the Giza pyramids, or let's say that the five, the five great pyramids. So let's start with the step pyramid of Saqqara, the pyramid of Zasur. Um, although that one is different than the others, but after that, you actually have the first great pyramid. It's called the red pyramid.

42:32 That is, it's not at Giza, but it's, I want to say 15 or 50 miles south of Giza. Then you've got the Great Pyramid of Khufu, Khafre, and Menkaure. And then you have the Bent Pyramid in there as well. So the earliest literary evidence that we have that the Great Pyramids are being referred to as tombs for, you know, long dead pharaohs is in about 450 B.C., when Herodotus travels to Egypt from Athens, I believe, in Greece. And he's essentially just exploring Egypt and writing about it.

43:07 Is he the one that told Plato about Atlantis?

43:09 No, that's Solon.

43:09 Thank you, Solon.

43:10 Solon is about 150 years before Herodotus. And Herodotus is alive at the time of Socrates.

43:20 Mm-hmm.

43:21 And Socrates is right before Plato, I believe. So Plato is a little bit after.

43:26 It goes Socrates, Plato, Aristotle. And the teacher.

43:31 Okay, yes, yes.

43:32 And the teacher to student.

43:34 And I think that Socrates and Herodotus were friends. I think they knew each other.

43:38 They were boys. Got it.

43:39 Yeah, yeah. And so Herodotus, he documents Egypt in maybe around 450 BC. And he speaks to... They always call them priests, but a tour guide in Egypt. That is a real thing, by the way. There were tour guides in ancient Egypt.

43:58 Well, of course, because it was the biggest building on the planet. And everyone who walked by, they're like, would you like a tour?

44:04 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

44:06 Here, buy this.

44:06 Yeah, yeah. That has been going on.

44:09 Forever.

44:10 That has been going on for at least 2,500 years.

44:11 Wow. Long history. I can imagine just like you have a generational– there's generational tour guides. Why did you get in? My grandfather of grandfather of grandfather was the tour guide of the Great Pyramids.

44:26 Yeah, yeah. That's actually hilarious. I bet you that that's the case.

44:31 I'm sure. Yeah, it has to be the case.

44:32 There are people there– I'll get back to Herodotus in a second. But there are people in Egypt. So you know the Egyptian headdresses that have the cobra sitting up on the front? They think that that comes from an ancient practice. Oh, also Moses, how he can turn the cobra into a staff and turn the staff back into a cobra. I saw the film, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

44:56 There are still people in Egypt that can do that. And that is a practice that has been carried down for thousands of years.

45:03 You mean turning a cobra into a staff? Yes.

45:05 They can grab a cobra by its head and... I don't know how these.

45:10 It's a, it's a tech, it's a, it's a, it's a tech, it's a Vulcan nerve pinch.

45:14 Yeah. It's something like that. And so they'll grab a Cobra by its head and it'll stiffen up and turn into like a staff and people, people they'll take, they'll take that and they'll wrap it and put it up on top of their head where the Cobra is alive. And the Cobra is still alive.

45:27 Yeah.

45:27 Sitting on top of their head. Doesn't bite them or anything. It's like these Egyptian snake charmers. And there's a Egyptologist who's, um, he's a really fascinating guy, Bob Breyer. He just retired. Um, He's kind of one of these guys who has a lot of these not really accepted theories about Egypt, but he's an Egyptologist and just amazing. He just retired, but one of his discoveries in Egypt was, I guess, maybe not a discovery, but he brought it to the forefront and let people know about it, that these Egyptian snake charmers and the things that we hear about in the book of Exodus is still happening today. There's still people who can do it. So these These cultural trades are being handed down over time. So, yeah, there were probably– yeah,

46:12 there were probably people today.

46:14 Some tour guides. Yeah.

46:16 So anyways, so Herodotus is traveling through Egypt and he has a tour guide that takes him to the Great Pyramids and he's, of course, asking him the purpose of it. And they tell him that the– they tell him the names that we know today, which is Kuhu, Khafre, and Menkaure. And so that is– I think it's the earliest literary evidence that we have of the pyramids being attributed to somebody.

46:40 There may be some graffiti that goes back before that, but that's how far back it goes as far as we know. And so that's 450 BC. And just to give people an idea of how much longer after the supposed time of the pyramids, they say that the Great Pyramid was built in about 2560, you know, that's, that's the traditional idea. And so, and so even if it was built in 2560 BC, that's more than that's 2,100 years later that Herodotus is standing at the base of it.

47:15 And he writes down for us, essentially. who the Egyptian priests tell him the pyramids were for.

47:22 The tour guides.

47:23 Yeah, yeah. And so I think, I want to say that that is also the same source that we get the 20-year estimate from, that it was 20 years per pyramid, which I find that very hard to believe.

47:34 That has been disproven, like just some math it doesn't make. They would have to be putting so many bricks up every second or every minute for that timeline.

47:45 To make sense. Yeah, yeah, that certainly doesn't make sense. As far as when they were built, that's a tough one to say because the archaeology and the carbon dating seems to be all over the place. Now, I have seen– so here's the thing. If we place the pyramids at 12,000 years old, and I haven't seen anybody talk about this, and I haven't put this in a video yet, and I'm sure I will one day. The blocks on the three Great Pyramids of Giza– The blocks that are exposed right now and most of the casing stones, although on the third pyramid, the smallest one, Menkaure or whoever, was putting granite casing stones on them. But on the middle pyramid and the great pyramid, those are all– they were white limestone polished casing stones. Now, if they were

48:35 there 12,000 years ago, they are in Egypt during what is called the African humid period where Egypt is a swamp and it's raining a lot. Right. I have seen limestone megaliths in swamps that are 3000 years old and they're unrecognizable. There, there are, so there are 17 Olmec heads in Mexico that are, we only have 17 because they're the ones that survived. They're made out of basalt.

49:01 Basalt is not as hard as granite, but basalts not going anywhere. And you can still see, you know, it can be rained on for 3000 years and you'll still see the face there. There are actually bigger Olmec heads that are made out of limestone. that had been rained on for 3,000 years. And it's like the face melted off the front of it. So the pyramids would look like they've been melting if they were there 12,000 years ago being rained on until Egypt turns dry. So if we go back 12,000 years ago, it probably takes 4,000 more years, maybe around 8,000 years ago, 6,000 B.C., that Egypt starts drying up and, um, and people start really moving close to the Nile. So there's some dilemmas there.

49:44 It's like limestone would be really, really, really, really, really deteriorated after 4,000 years of being rained on. Cause I've seen it. Um, however, the explanation of the explanation of, of old kingdom or old kingdom, Pharaoh's commissioning the pyramids to be built in 20 years. There's actually one pharaoh, Sneferu, that they attribute to having built three pyramids. He built the Pyramid of Maidum, which supposedly collapsed. The Bent Pyramid, which they say had an issue in the way that the corbelled ceilings were aligned. And so he had to narrow, I guess, the projection of how tall it was. But for some reason, he still finished it. And then he moved on to the Red Pyramid. So how does one

50:30 guy build three pyramids over the course of his life? And each of them take 20 years, so.

50:37 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show.

50:47 I mean, how old is this guy by the end of the.

50:48 He started by your age.

50:50 He had to.

50:51 And he lived beautifully because he's probably ending off around 90. Sure. In a time period when people were not living till 90. Exactly.

50:58 And so that's... It's a tough thing to buy outright. I'm kind of– I actually– I kind of find myself in a unique belief that I don't really know– I don't know who shares these ideas. Although I think Graham Hancock is coming around to this idea too, that he believes that the Sphinx, the origin of the Sphinx is possibly a lot older than the rest of Egypt. And that– I've kind of just thrown this out there. This is an idea that there may have once upon a time been a Sphinx cult that... Just like the cult in here. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. Once upon a time, there may have been a Sphinx cult in Egypt. And we know that the Great Pyramids are built on these kind of natural primordial mounds. Like if you go down

51:46 into the bottom of the Great Pyramid, I believe, I haven't been there, but I've seen tons of photos of it, that there is a mound there. underneath the pyramid. And so you have this idea of this primordial mound that they saw as significant and they covered it up for what exact purpose the pyramid serves the entire purpose of that.

52:06 I don't know. I don't believe that it was just a tomb. Maybe it was, maybe somebody decided they needed to be buried in there. Cause you see that box. That's like the right size of a person at that time. but no evidence of anybody in any of the three great pyramids at all. There's no evidence that they were as hard physical archaeological evidence that people were buried in there.

52:26 They never found a body, never found a mummy.

52:28 There's no hieroglyphs.

52:30 There's no hieroglyphs. And that's another thing. So when you... This is, I think, maybe one of the biggest hangups in Egyptology that's, of course, not really acknowledged much at all by Egyptologists. But When you go to the pyramid of Saqqara, which is said to have been built by Zosser with his architect Imhotep in about 2800, or that might be an overprojection, but let's say around 2700 BC.

52:58 That is the step pyramid that's built out of modestly sized limestone blocks. I mean, it's probably this big. So it takes maybe a couple of people to carry that. And there's this huge labyrinth of tunnels underneath the pyramid. And when you go down there, you know, who this pyramid was built for because his name is written all over the labyrinths underneath the pyramid. And there's actually hieroglyphs of him standing, performing divine ceremonies and visiting his palace in the afterlife. And the walls, you may have seen this before, where it's got the turquoise scarabs all over the walls, the little blue. It's decorated like his palace in Memphis was. When you're there, it is, you know who this pyramid was built for. But then the next

53:41 five pharaohs that come through or the next four pharaohs, but there is a fifth one, come through and they all build pyramids that are even bigger, even more grand, but they don't really put their name. They're humble. I'm not going to put my name in it. Yeah, no, they're not humble pharaohs. I mean, through literary evidence, we know that Senefru was a good person. We know Senefru existed.

54:08 We know when he existed, and we know he was a good person, but there's no way he's not If he built a pyramid and he has his tomb somewhere, there's no way he's not putting his name on there. You build the biggest building on the face of the planet until the Eiffel Tower is built. And then you don't put your name anywhere inside of it or even on the mortuary temples on the outside of it. There's something there that doesn't make sense.

54:34 But is traditional Egyptology still holding on to that idea that these are tombs?

54:38 Yeah, absolutely.

54:39 Why? That makes no sense. There's so much counter... evidence to this. Like this conversation, any logical human being, I mean, would say there's just no evidence.

54:52 I kind of find myself in this in-between area where we have a precedence for people being buried in pyramids. There are other pyramids that people are buried in, but these three great pyramids, the bent pyramid and the red pyramid, these are all the most grand ones. And you don't see the hieroglyphs in them, in any of them, in any of the five of them.

55:11 Of anything.

55:12 And I find myself in this place where I'm thinking, okay, maybe, maybe, maybe the guy who commissioned this is buried in it. But that cannot be the only purpose of this pyramid. Look at all of the chambers and the labyrinths and the corridors that are inside of the pyramids. There is a greater purpose to this than a simple tomb. I mean, the traditional idea is that sometime in remote history, people are taking their dead kings and burying them out in the desert with all their treasures and stuff. And either people go back out to visit the king or people go to loot the king's treasures. And as they uncover them from the sand, they find this strange effect that people are being mummified in the sand. So Egypt starts

55:58 to grow this death cult. This is the traditional idea. A lot of it makes sense, but it starts to get strange when it gets to the Great Pyramids. So people start getting this idea that, okay, the body needs to be mummified. There's something significant about the shimmering sands of the desert that mummify people's bodies when you're buried in them. And this is remote history, you know. And then so eventually they notice that they discover this because king's burials are being looted and their body is just sitting out in the open with all the artifacts gone.

56:27 So it's not a respectful way to like treat your you know, your chieftain of, you know, whatever old ancient Egyptian tribe you have. So they start putting rocks on top of them and building these things that look like a Twinkie out of rocks.

56:41 Oh, this is going way back.

56:42 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so these are called mastabas. And so, sure enough, people are ripping the blocks off of the mastabas and taking all the king's treasure and stuff. And, you know, you come in town and you're like, didn't we just bury the king with this thing last week? Why is it for sale here?

56:56 Well, let me ask you real quick. Why are they being buried with treasures? If they understand, then this is the stretch, if they understand that they can't take it with them.

57:06 Well, they thought they could. That's the idea.

57:11 But even then, though, as time progressed, though, that idea started to not make as much sense, where in the later generations, closer to where we are, they understood that they're not taking the gold with them.

57:27 Yeah, by the end of the new kingdom of Egypt around 1000 BC when the Persians and other people started to come in, a lot of these old ideas are gone. Like the death cult of Egypt, people thinking they're going to be reborn in the next life and they're going to be able to take all their items with them.

57:44 All that's kind of gone. And by the time the Greeks start ruling Egypt and you have Alexander and Ptolemy all the way down to Cleopatra, the Greeks keep the tradition going but they don't really– I mean, some of the Greeks don't even believe in their own gods. So we're getting back to a point of like heightened consciousness where people are starting to realize the reality of the world that they're in. So there's this time period where they think they're going to take things with them. And so they build these mastabas above ground and then people still rob them. Then they tunnel under the ground and put a mastaba on top of that. People still break in and get them. So they think that their pyramid

58:19 came from, okay, we've We've tried burying them above ground under giant rocks. It's not going to work. We've tried burying them under giant rocks inside of a tunnel underground. That still doesn't work. So let's just build something so big that nobody can ever get inside of it. And then eventually they think that there may have been a thought that's like, okay, if your body is now violated in the afterlife, your body has to be protected in this life. And if it's violated and people take stuff from it, it affects you in the next life. So they thought that the Pharaoh was like... going to build the biggest thing that the world has ever seen. And that didn't work because we know that people were tunneling

59:00 into it in the thousands of years ago that people were tunneling in. So I see the logic behind why somebody might build something that big. If we were to open up the pyramid and there's one chamber in there with a sarcophagus shaped box and you see hieroglyphs.

59:19 On the walls, I'm on board. You're like, yep.

59:23 I know.

59:23 Yeah.

59:23 Okay. This guy built that. Yeah. But you go into the pyramid. There's no hieroglyphs. There is the box there, but there's not even a lid to the box on it anymore.

59:32 And that lid was not something that someone was going to just lift off.

59:35 Exactly. No hieroglyphs anywhere. But you have all of these other chambers. And I mean, you even have tunnels that are this big inside of the pyramid pointing out to the sky towards... astronomical bodies that the Egyptians would have recognized. So I'm kind of at this point that... I'm kind of at this point where I think Graham Hancock and I actually agree on this.

1:00:00 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show.

1:00:09 This is kind of a nuanced answer. I think the Egyptians... sometime after about 3000 BC are responsible for the pyramids. If kings were buried in them, it wasn't just a tomb. There was a much bigger purpose.

1:00:24 They might've just like, well, there's that big thing out there. Let's bury our king out there.

1:00:29 Sure, sure. I think if it wasn't just a tomb, there's a much bigger purpose. And I think it's obvious when you look at the interior of the pyramids. I mean, people, they're so complex that people are even trying to build machines out of them. Like, you know, there's the Ram water pump theory. There's the land of Kim. Who's got this idea that they were possibly chemical producing factories. I mean, they're, they're complex enough that people are theorizing like Christopher Dunn. Yeah.

1:00:54 Is there, yeah, of course, Chris, um, they're so complex that people are looking at the interior, trying to find a deeper meaning, which I think, I think it's, there's something there. There's something that's there.

1:01:05 What it is. We don't know.

1:01:06 And, um, I also think that it's possible that, that in the old kingdom of Egypt, that begins around 3100 BC. You have this king. We have this slate pallet called the Narmer pallet, and you see the very first pharaoh smiting the king. So Egypt used to be basically like a tale of two lands. You had the north and the south, upper and lower Egypt, except upper was actually south Egypt and lower.

1:01:33 Sure.

1:01:34 But anyways, one conquers the other and then unites the kingdom of Egypt, and you begin the old kingdom, early dynastics. period. And I think that during that period, you had the absolute rule of a pharaoh, which is what made Egypt so powerful. And these pharaohs were, I think, very spiritual and morally aligned people for the most part. And I think because of their absolute rule and because they have the Nile. So the thing is, The reason I'm dubious about, I say this all the time. I think when we're looking for Atlantis, I don't think Egypt is the place to look for Atlantis because when you're looking for an Ice Age civilization, there's not a huge reason for people to be living on the Nile 12,000 years ago because

1:02:20 all of Sahara is green at that point. I think what makes sense is the reason people are living along the Nile is because when the Sahara dries up, you either have to go to sub-Sahara. If you look at the Sahara Desert below it, you have the Congo and all of these green areas. And that's where all the animals went. That's where the safaris are at. Or you go along the Nile and a lot of people went along the Nile and that fertile soil on the Nile allows you to, it's the most abundant grain factory on the planet. And so that grain made Egypt powerful. And when you have one guy who, Egypt is the one place in the ancient world where somebody could go to become a God. If you were Pharaoh, you were literally God.

1:03:03 And you could tell anybody what you wanted to do. what was going to happen. And so I think is that for these, from 3,100 BC until basically 2,100 BC, you have this old kingdom period. And I think that, I think that we were seeing probably a science and a technology that the world hasn't really ever seen since then.

1:03:25 And I.

1:03:28 Think that possibly, I was just talking with a friend of mine the other day, um, about the, the evidence of tools that we have that built the pyramids. I mean, if you haven't seen the blocks in person, it's hard to, I mean, I haven't yet.

1:03:42 You can't do copper age.

1:03:43 Yeah.

1:03:44 It makes no sense.

1:03:45 So, yeah, I mean, you have two and a half million megalithic limestone blocks per pyramid at Giza.

1:03:54 Not bad.

1:03:55 And these blocks are five to six feet tall, five to six feet long, and maybe four feet wide or so, cut on six sides.

1:04:04 And weigh how much?

1:04:05 Um, so the average block is between, of the most of the pyramid is between two to six tons. When you go inside the King's chamber, which is lined with red Aswan granite, you're looking at 20 to 80 tons. And these are, it's crazy. You're looking at 20 to 80 tons, but the blocks are half the size as the ones on the outside. So, I mean, you're talking, you're talking about blocks with an insane amount of density, um, and that are lifted up in 15 foot high ceilings.

1:04:33 Perfectly.

1:04:34 Yeah, perfectly.

1:04:35 Perfectly aligned.

1:04:35 And so the blocks that are in the ceilings are heavier than anything else in the pyramid. And there's five chambers that include these megalithic rose as one granite blocks. And the tools that they attribute the Egyptians having used are these two-foot-long bronze saws. And copper chisels.

1:05:03 To cut some of the hardest rock around, correct?

1:05:08 Hardest rock on the planet. You know, some of the hardest rocks on the planet. And, yeah, I mean, and the blocks in the king's chamber as well as the casing and the outer stones on the pyramid, I mean, they're so fine that, you know, for two and a half to four feet– they are just perfectly aligned to each other, perfectly pressed against each other.

1:05:29 I mean, there are.

1:05:30 Some of them, you actually can't pluck a hair. I mean, think about how fine, I mean, people say you can't put a credit card. You can't pluck your hair and put it through the cracks.

1:05:37 Can you imagine like when you're a kid, you're building up like a Lego, something on Legos and you start at the bottom of the base and you start trying to build something. If you get off by one block, the whole damn thing comes, the whole thing is off.

1:05:50 Oh yeah.

1:05:50 So can you imagine, that's on a Lego set. Can you imagine on the scale that they were at, the kind of precision that they were talking about. It's, it's, it's, it's not comprehensible.

1:06:00 It isn't.

1:06:00 Even to today would be a very, could we build it? Yeah. It caught, well, not even ignore the cost of it, but the, with all of our computers. Sure. With all, and even then, I mean, there's still a lot of. Yeah.

1:06:18 You know, you know, one of the things that's crazy about that is I was listening to a lecture series, um, on, uh, Archaeoastronomy or the study of ancient astronomy. And so there's this, uh, there's this really why I was excited to listen to the episode. Um, it was called, uh, the astronomy of the great pyramid and for 30 minutes, this, this, uh, PhD who really well-spoken and interesting, interesting lecture. Um, but he's talking about how, you know, it is per the great pyramid, as well as all of the pyramids are, are aligned. almost perfectly to the cardinal directions. And it's not just magnetic north, it is true north, which means you had highly advanced astronomy to be able to align a structure to true north. But also the Great Pyramid,

1:07:11 I think the base of it is 13 acres, and you had to flatten out the ground for 13 acres.

1:07:17 Perfectly.

1:07:18 It's hard to comprehend that. And what's amazing is that the great pyramid itself, you know, he, he builds up and builds up and builds up and builds up everything. And it's amazing that of all the 118, around 120 pyramids that are in Egypt, the great pyramid is the one that is aligned to true North perfectly. Not, but not, I mean, the other ones are close, but they're just, they're just, you know, fractions of a degree off or maybe like one degree off. The great pyramid is aligned perfectly.

1:07:50 And at the very end, um, You know, he's talking about like, if we were to do this today, we would have to use highly advanced GPS. Maybe this lecture is like 10 years ago. So the technology he's referring to is a bit different than what we have 10 years later. But at the very end, he goes, he goes, And we just have to chalk this up as coincidence.

1:08:08 One of the 120 pyramids was going to be perfect. It just so happens that it's the Great Pyramid that's perfect.

1:08:14 No, no, no. Was that serious? Was he being serious on that comment?

1:08:17 He's dead serious. That's how the lecture ended. All this buildup. And then he goes, so we're just left to conclude that it happens to be coincidence that the Great Pyramid is aligned. And I go, oh, man. I've been listening to this for 30 minutes.

1:08:29 Are you kidding?

1:08:30 And I'm like, there's no way that the Great Pyramid itself, the Great Pyramid, happens to be accidentally aligned. And so all this long tangent to say that I think that the Old Kingdom is responsible for a lot of the mysteries of ancient Egypt. And I think that they probably had an understanding that nobody even came close to it until the Greeks come along some 2,500 to 3,000 years later and start rediscovering a lot of these ideas. And there's a huge precedence for that that we can get into.

1:09:07 But I think that they probably had a technology that constructed the pyramids that was clean. And when they were done, there wasn't any evidence of the tools that they used. Well, To construct. Now, the carbon dating that comes from the pyramids doesn't line up to the traditional narrative. And so they think that this is as conservative as Egypt. I mean, Egyptologists are very conservative. They're not going to hypothesize things that are way, way out there according to what they think.

1:09:38 But even they will push and say, okay. okay, maybe the pyramids are like 500 years older than we say they are.

1:09:45 And they're getting, and they're pushing back a little bit more.

1:09:47 Yeah.

1:09:48 Okay. Maybe a thousand years.

1:09:49 Yeah.

1:09:49 Yeah. That's a lot.

1:09:50 So, so if they're a thousand years older, I'll say, I'll say, I think it's totally plausible that they're not actually in the position that we have them in, in the historical timeline where exactly it would be probably a little bit older at the very, very least. I wouldn't be surprised if they were older.

1:10:10 Um, We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

1:10:22 Even if they were pushed back 500 to a thousand years, our whole idea of the way we study archaeology and ancient history gets completely shaken. And so I think that that's totally possible. But just from looking at limestone myself that's been rained on, When I look at that in Central America, and it's actually harder limestone in Central America than in Egypt, I look at the pyramids, I'm like, yeah, that's a tough thing to get around. You look at the Osirion. So the Osirion, it's a megalithic structure, the strangest thing in Egypt. It has bigger limestone blocks than you see on the Great Pyramids. Actually, like, they could...

1:11:07 two to three blocks could fit inside of this room.

1:11:10 That's it. That's huge.

1:11:12 Yeah. Yeah. And that's just way bigger. I mean, one block is one of those blocks are like at least eight times larger than the average block.

1:11:21 What is it for?

1:11:22 They have no idea. So it's a multi-storied structure that's built into the ground. So it's not built up. It's built into the ground and it's got multiple floors with stairways that go down and it's filled two thirds of the way up with water. And the limestone that's there are these big, long, perfectly flat slabs. And people theorize that this could be 12,000 years old. The only problem with that is that 12,000 years ago, that area looked very similar to the way Central America does today. And when you look at Central American blocks that were around 3,000 years ago that are also limestone, they're torn up from the water. So it's They can be older, but I just don't know if they can be 12,000 years old

1:12:06 because you would see that– you would see the destruction of water on limestone.

1:12:10 And limestone being the thing that's underneath the casings.

1:12:15 Well, the casing is limestone too. Right.

1:12:17 But the rocks itself is what? Limestone?

1:12:20 Yeah. Yeah.

1:12:21 But so you think it couldn't be– well, then how would you argue the Sphinx being older?

1:12:28 Because the Sphinx is destroyed. Yeah, yeah.

1:12:30 It's pretty big.

1:12:30 Yeah, yeah. I mean you look at the– So at the top of the, uh, so one of the things that I'll have this conversation, they'll go, okay, well, what about the limestone casing stones on the pyramids? We don't see those anymore. Well, that's true. Most of the limestone casing stones are gone, but in the middle pyramid, the casing stones are still there at the very, very top.

1:12:51 And the wear on those is not the same as when you're down in the Sphinx pit. Dude, look at the walls on the Sphinx. Like the, the erosion that's inside of it, the erosion, um, canals that are in there are two feet thick. That water has been flowing down there. And the Sphinx had to be repaired at the time that they attribute the pyramids to having been built.

1:13:15 So it's a possibility that they could be a bit older.

1:13:18 Yeah.

1:13:18 For sure. 12,000 years older is where you get a little fishy.

1:13:23 If they were 12,000 years old, They would look exactly like the Sphinx. That's what I think.

1:13:31 And they still look pretty tore up.

1:13:32 Yeah.

1:13:32 I mean the Great Pyramid looks– those pyramids look pretty tore up. It's a gray area. It's a possibility. Because I always wondered just like, well, the technology for the building got worse.

1:13:44 Yeah, absolutely.

1:13:45 Like we don't start with the best buildings ever. We started with like little tents and we went up to the Empire State Building and now to all the amazing skyscrapers that we make. They haven't gotten worse, generally speaking. Yeah, exactly. So why did it get worse in Egypt? Like we start with the Great Pyramid and then we start getting down to this like mud. Yeah. Like it made no sense.

1:14:07 And it's supposedly– it is supposedly– so the way that they– the traditional idea is that 3100 BC, Egypt is united. And then over the course of 600 years, it goes– and it's like all of a sudden they build the world's biggest building, which is– that would be the Saqqara Step Pyramid. And there's like nothing before that. We don't have a precedence of large stone buildings leading up to that.

1:14:32 It's just all of a sudden, I mean, even the Saqqara Step Pyramid and the labyrinths underneath that.

1:14:36 So is that considered the oldest pyramid?

1:14:38 Yeah, that's considered the first one.

1:14:40 So that's considered the first one before the Great Pyramids. Yeah, yeah.

1:14:43 And so that's what I was saying.

1:14:43 In the current timeline. Yes.

1:14:45 And so that's what I was saying. Down in those labyrinths underneath that pyramid, it's very obvious who that pyramid was built for. And then the five later pyramids, which are bigger and badder, No hieroglyphs, no names, no nothing. That's according to the traditional timeline. So you've got this step pyramid, very obvious who that's built for. You've got, then it's the, then it's the my doom pyramid. Uh, it's actually six pyramids. My doom pyramid, step pyramid, red pyramid, Kufu's pyramid, Khafre's pyramid, Menkaure's pyramid, all much, much more impressively built than the Saqqara step pyramid. None of them have hieroglyphs inside of them at all. They're not decorated like the, like the underside of the Saqqara pyramid is.

1:15:25 They don't have a very obvious sarcophagus like the Saqqara Step Pyramid does. And then after the construction of the Menkaure Pyramid, there are others, but they're all completely destroyed, like fallen apart. They were constructed so badly that they actually look like they're 12,000 years old because they've just completely fallen apart.

1:15:46 It's almost like someone– came upon the Great Pyramids and said, let's try to build something like this. And this is the best that they could do. And that's why it's like the step pyramid or the bent and all this stuff, because they don't know how they did it.

1:16:03 Yeah, yeah. I totally agree with you. And I honestly used to think exactly that. It certainly seems like they came upon this. The deeper you go, the more strange it gets because... in the Bent Pyramid, there are cedars from Lebanon installed in the roofing of the Bent Pyramid that are built into the pyramid. You know, people, architectural engineers, even independent people who pay to go inside of it that aren't associated with academics or anything, they'll go inside and they're like, yeah, there's no way those were installed afterwards.

1:16:40 Those were installed during the construction. They carbon date it. It's 4,600 years old. It's like How does any of this make sense? There's so much evidence that locks it in at about between 4,500 to 5,000 years old. Then there's more evidence that pushes it back.

1:16:56 Okay.

1:16:56 Maybe this is 5,500 to 6,000 years old. And then, and then you look at things from a logical standpoint, just approaching it. And you're like, well, it looks like the, all these other pyramids are a cheap imitation of what these were trying to be. And like these people came across it. He had these three different areas. How do you even– how do you solve this mystery? And it's why it's the greatest mystery of all time.

1:17:20 It's one of them, yeah, without question. Yeah, yeah. So there's two things I wanted to get your point of view on because these are– let's go down deeper in the mysteries of Egypt. Yeah, we'll get into Mesoamerica in a little bit.

1:17:31 But in Egypt, there's– I just want to say as well, I don't have– I have absolutely nothing invested in any of these ideas. I'm just presenting the evidence as I know it. And of course it pushes me down certain areas.

1:17:44 You don't have any textbooks you're selling?

1:17:45 No, I don't have any textbooks I'm selling. Nobody's forced to buy anything from me. I don't even have any products for sale. And if the pyramids were absolutely 100% proven to be 4,600 years old, I would go, yeah, well, the Egyptians were accomplishing some crazy stuff that we can't explain. If they're proven to be 12,000 years old, holy crap.

1:18:06 We just, okay, well, where's the civilization? We've got to learn. We have to open up a whole new study about the civilization that built them 12,000 years ago.

1:18:15 Correct.

1:18:15 Even if they're 1,000 years older.

1:18:17 That's a lot of rewriting of textbooks.

1:18:18 Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. And so I don't have a stake invested in any of this.

1:18:23 You don't have a dog in this fight.

1:18:25 I find all of the ancient world fascinating. I love the– search for Atlantis and the search for lost civilizations that could have existed during the Ice Age, just as fascinating as I find researching the Greeks in Alexandria, trying to study the... I mean, the Greeks in Alexandria are exactly like you and I, curious, intelligent guys trying to uncover the mysteries of the ancient world, and they did it.

1:18:50 And that is really fascinating to me. But it's only half as old as the most conservative date in the pyramid. I find it all fascinating.

1:19:01 So there's two things I wanted to ask you about, two things that were found in Egypt that I want to hear what traditional archaeology has to say about it because it's so insane. Well, the obelisks that are all over Egypt, there was one very famous one that's found in the quarry. And there's scoops. There's scoop marks in the hardest, some of the hardest rock ever.

1:19:29 Yes, I think that, yeah, the unfinished obelisk, I think that's a red granite quarry.

1:19:34 Which is like eight or nine on the hardness scale, like diamonds 10, something like that. So it's extremely hard. And there's scoop marks, like someone took an ice cream scoop and scooped in. So explanation for the scoop marks would be one. Two, the drill marks, where they actually see, you see drilled holes that are perfect. And you see...

1:19:57 engineers today look at it and they go, that's a drill hole. And like, how would you even comprehend doing something like this in the hardest rock of its time? That kind of thing. So those two technologies that are, there is proof for. I'd love to hear your thoughts on what traditional archaeologists think and then what your theories are.

1:20:15 Yeah. So, okay, I'll start with the cores and then we'll go to the unfinished obelisk. So the cores are found all over Egypt. And I believe we've, we see them in limestone and as well as granite.

1:20:30 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

1:20:40 Now the cores are, or these, these drill, these drill holes. I want to emphasize that they're not, it's not just like they drilled away and turned everything that that used to be in the hole just to dust, you know, and then just sweep all the dust out. No, no, no. They literally burned it cord in there and pulled the core out. So they left what used to fill the hole.

1:21:02 Yeah.

1:21:02 Yeah. They left what used to be intact. And you say you have this core, this cylinder, just exactly like this glass of solid granite and limestone. And then you have the hole there. Well, what the heck did they have that did that? You know, that, That is, that's almost... So it's not a drill.

1:21:21 It's actually a coring.

1:21:22 Yes, it's a literal coring. Yeah, yeah.

1:21:25 Of some of the hardest rock on the planet in a time period that they had copper age tools?

1:21:30 Yeah, copper.

1:21:31 Or bronze age?

1:21:31 They had copper. They had some bronze.

1:21:35 This is not... No iron. Nothing of this is doing this, right?

1:21:38 No. None of this is doing this. And there's not even a precedent for like... What is the tubular technology that they're– even if it's a hand crank drill that's cutting into it and they're able to pull something out, where is that? What's the metal? Yeah, I can imagine what it would be. I can picture it in my mind, but it's not in the archaeological record. Even what they say could have done it.

1:22:05 Well, where is it? Is that what the archaeologists, that's what traditional archaeologists say?

1:22:08 Well, no, no, they don't even say that. They say that it was.

1:22:12 Look away from the man behind the curtain? Yeah, yeah.

1:22:14 They say that it was, I think they say that it was copper, like little copper hand drills that were doing it.

1:22:21 Oh, come on, Jesus, come on.

1:22:22 Yeah, and so that's a traditional idea. And I think Flint Dibble on the Graham Hancock debate, he says that as well. That's ridiculous. And then as far as when you go to the... So the unfinished obelisk is this It's massive.

1:22:37 Like a dinosaur-sized... It's like 120 tons or something like that? 1,200 tons.

1:22:41 1,200 tons. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:22:43 Okay, it's massive.

1:22:45 Yeah, 1,200 tons, I believe. Absolutely gigantic.

1:22:50 It's like a T-Rex.

1:22:51 Yeah, it's hard to imagine how big this thing is.

1:22:53 And it's still in the ground.

1:22:56 It's still in the ground, yeah, yeah.

1:22:57 So think about, they were planning to lift this and move it.

1:23:01 Yeah, and I think that they... don't because, or at least they think that they, they didn't because, uh, the, because the granite cracked or something like that, or it was just not, it was just unfinished. Um, but yeah, so it's so large that you jump down into this pit that is around it. And the pit is, you know, you have, you have the obelisk laying on its side and basically you have this giant bedrock of aswan granite and you're just cutting out an obelisk inside of it to raise it up and so you jump down into the pits that are along the sides of of the obelisk and the pits are like seven feet tall so you know um it's towering over you even when you're standing next to it while it's laying down and then

1:23:47 there are these scoop marks going underneath the obelisk And I think at one of the ends as well. And it literally looks like somebody scooping into strawberry ice cream.

1:23:57 Right. Yeah.

1:23:58 It's like soft strawberry ice cream. That's exactly what it looks like. And so what they say, and you watch this documentary before you actually get to go view it, which is very strange that to go view the unfinished obelisk, you're funneled into this room where they make you watch a documentary on how the obelisk was made before you can go look at it.

1:24:19 And it's their narrative. Yeah, yeah. And what's their narrative?

1:24:22 So they have these dolomite stones, these stones that are this big, and it's a very hard rock. And that they were, to cut the obelisk out of the ground, they take the block and then they drop it on the granite. .

1:24:42 You mean like grinding corn into a paste?

1:24:45 Yeah, yeah. And they're just dropping a dolomite stone on granite.

1:24:50 Dropping?

1:24:50 Yeah, just boom.

1:24:52 And it's landing perfectly every time. I guess so. He silenced, ladies and gentlemen.

1:25:00 Yeah, yeah. For anybody listening, I don't know.

1:25:03 What to say. Your face is just... It makes no sense.

1:25:07 Yeah, it makes no sense at all.

1:25:09 Why? But I don't understand what is the reason that they have to come up with an explanation like this, which logically doesn't make any sense. And we're now at a point where there's so much information out there. That played 50 years ago. That played 100 years ago. If you're going on a tour of Diabolos and they show you a documentary or they tell you what's going on, you'd go, oh, okay. But now there's so much information, the internet and everything.

1:25:35 And there's so many people who are experts in different areas that are maybe more educated on this specific thing. Engineers. That can come in and go, ah, no, no. And they have a platform now to send out that knowledge to.

1:25:51 The world that can't be gatekept by anybody else.

1:25:54 Anymore.

1:25:54 Now, here's another problem with these– Dolomite pounding stones. So, so let's say that, let's say that you can somehow, I mean, think, okay, we have to imagine, we have to imagine somebody's mapped out, all right, this is going to be the obelisk, say they draw it in chalk along the ground. And, and it's just flat ground at some point. And we're going to, we're going to somehow cut the world's biggest obelisk out of this bedrock. So then they go, here's your dolomite balls. Start dropping them on the ground.

1:26:28 Yeah, from scratch.

1:26:29 Just from flat ground.

1:26:31 Boom, boom, boom. That makes no sense.

1:26:34 It doesn't make any sense. Now, maybe if you're there for a thousand years, you get down.

1:26:41 Yeah, like water dripping. Like water dripping on a stone, yeah.

1:26:44 And you get down to the bottom. But then you have to cut. I mean, think about this. You have to cut the ground away underneath the pyramid. Or I mean, underneath the obelisk. to raise it out, right? You know, you've got to cut the bottom layer of it. How are you going to drop the, how are you going to drop this, this really heavy dolomite ball? How are you going to drop it into a wall that's in front of you and have it cut, have it tunnel underneath?

1:27:09 That doesn't make any sense. So that's where, that's where they're showing the scoop marks of from. And they think the only, the only other explanation they think is rather than dropping it, they're pounding it against the, against the granite like this. And just, I guess they're just chipping away the granite into like little tiny specks of sand.

1:27:26 But those scoops don't look erratic.

1:27:29 No, no.

1:27:30 They look perfectly like a machine went in and scooped it out like an ice cream. That technique, it would look horrendous. It would be like, it would be like, it'd look all over the place. It wouldn't be so uniform.

1:27:44 Yeah, well, and it's so miraculous that I think I saw Ben Van Kirkwick from Uncharted X. He's asked a question that's like, well, what could achieve this? I think this is when he's on Joe Rogan. And it's so miraculous that he's like, I can't think of anything other than something that could basically melt the stone down and soften it and scoop it away like a molecular tool to be able to melt it. It's so miraculous that the only explanation he'd come up with was like sci-fi something.

1:28:18 That's how amazing it is. What actually did it? I have no idea. What I think it is, is I think that you have people who are, and we haven't even gotten into this necessarily, but I think you probably have these sacred cults of knowledge, people who are doing psychedelics and tapping into something that's just so far beyond.

1:28:40 outside of the realm that we're in right now. It's kind of like Nikola Tesla said, if you start studying, if you start looking at science, things by, what was it? Vibration, frequency, sound, something along those lines, or waves, you'll make more strides in a decade than you have in a century in science.

1:28:58 And I think that I think that ancient people were probably privy to things in the natural world that we don't know. And I think that they were able to exploit the natural world so much more efficiently than we are. And when they were done with something, there wasn't any evidence of how they did it. And that's how clean their world was. And you look at the Egyptians, they're damn near like the best example of people who, I mean, we see like some trash dumps in later Egyptian, when they kind of lose in later Egyptian society, when they kind of, you know, when the Romans showed up, when the, yeah, when the Persians show up and the Greeks show up and the Romans show up, like we see these trash dumps. Um,

1:29:35 but in the old kingdom and in the, some of the middle kingdom as well, um, we're not seeing this. And so I think that, I think that these, I will also say, I think that the obelisks, I think that those are almost more, it's, it's easier to say, okay, these are definitely Egyptian. because the same kind of technology that it took to cut those obelisks out of the ground, to lift them up, to make all... I mean, the corners are razor sharp, like this table on the obelisks.

1:30:07 And the obelisks are... It's red-gray, and it's as smooth as this table.

1:30:12 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show.

1:30:21 And they're also... cutting into the obelisks, Egyptian hieroglyphs, all up and down all of the obelisks. And we see names in there.

1:30:31 With just chisels, right?

1:30:33 Yeah, that's what they say. But yeah, I mean.

1:30:35 Copper chisels. Yeah.

1:30:37 And the angles and the proportions of the hieroglyphs on the obelisks are perfect. And the names that are there are perfect. And so I find myself where I'm just years and years and years down this rabbit hole. I'm like, I found myself where I'm like, okay, For me, I think it's a matter of lost technology.

1:30:55 There's no doubt.

1:30:57 Dude, you look at the Greeks later on, the Antikythera mechanism could predict.

1:31:02 That's that computer.

1:31:03 It could predict all of the movements of our solar system on it. It was an ancient GPS. And it wasn't just one. There are literary sources that tell us that there were entire street corners in Alexandria where a wealthy person could go buy one. And the Romans come in and melt them all down and turn them into swords.

1:31:23 Obviously.

1:31:23 Yeah.

1:31:25 Jesus.

1:31:25 But I mean, dude, like, yeah. I mean, I think that ancient people were way further along than we give them credit for. And at the end of that lecture to then say, well, we're just left to conclude that the Egyptians just by accident, by coincidence, perfectly aligned the Great Pyramid to true north.

1:31:44 The one thing. And I don't want to get into the other pyramids yet, but the one thing that when Dr.

1:31:50 Burdhart showed up.

1:31:52 I asked him, I'm like, why is it that the rest of the world, there's pyramids all around the world with civilizations that should have never had any contact with each other, and yet they're all building pyramids? And there are a lot of them. There's not a couple. There is a lot of pyramids in Mesoamerica. in India and China and Japan, and they're all around that same parallel around the world, which is exactly, how is that possible?

1:32:21 And he's like, well, and this was his, and I know he's a friend of yours, so I don't want you to go against, but the idea he said is like, well, I think apparently, I think the best explanation for that is human beings just eventually figured out that the pyramid is the most stable structural idea. And I'm like, man, that's almost as bad as what you just said, like, well, we're just here to conclude that it was just by coincidence that that doesn't make any sense. It's a very easy kind of cop-out in my opinion. And the way that is because that just doesn't make– there's so many other mysteries involved with that conversation, which we'll get into, of how they built it, where they built it, why

1:33:04 they built it, what's the purpose of them, all of that kind of stuff. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on just that connection, man.

1:33:11 Well, I think that there's– the Egyptologist I was talking about earlier, Bob Breyer, he has a– He has a lecture series where he talks about the mysteries of the pyramids and the obelisks. And during his– with everything that that guy knows about Egypt and all of the unorthodox ideas that he has that Egyptologists disagree with him on, he gets to the pyramids and he goes, he goes, I'm going to explain the pyramids to you. I'm going to tell you about how it doesn't take a higher mathematics to be able to construct the pyramids and that the pyramid shape and that the structure of the pyramid, it wasn't significant to the Egyptians.

1:33:47 I'm like, what?

1:33:48 What are you talking– like with all the other ideas you have that I agree with, this– no, I don't– it's fine. But I think that– and I'm starting to just kind of develop this research now on my own. I think that rather than– I think a good explanation to a lot of these ancient mysteries, something that may be able to explain them with more research. is that rather than a lost civilization or a department of people, you know, like the handbag mystery, people bringing knowledge around the world.

1:34:27 Correct.

1:34:27 Sometimes I wonder if, what if that is more spiritual than it is physical? And what if people are tapping into plants and psychedelics that rather than everyone being connected, rather than a physical cultural connection, perhaps all these people in the ancient world across different timelines, thousands of years apart, are tapping into something and they're all seeing the same things and the same imagery.

1:34:51 Because they're all getting high around the world.

1:34:54 And coming back into their world and the iconography and the things that they see, dude, we know that the Egyptians were high off psychedelics. Yeah, I mean, you see the lotus flower all over Egyptian hieroglyphs. New research is just now showing the depth at which Greeks were on psychedelics. The Romans as well. Ancient India as well. The Sumerians.

1:35:23 Even Mesoamerica. Mesoamerica and South America, more than all of them. And even North America as well. It's all over the ancient world. And I'll tell you something that I think is... That's interesting, man.

1:35:38 Go ahead.

1:35:39 I'll tell you something that I think might be the best evidence of two different cultures living at two different times producing similar iconography building similar architecture and having the same political setup is the Maya and the Greeks so the Greeks are 5000 BC the Maya are I'm sorry the Greeks are 500 BC the Maya are 500 AD so the height of both both cultures is a thousand years apart from each other so and we know that without a doubt I mean we know that they didn't know each other so But when you look at the Maya world, city-states. You look at the Greek world, city-states.

1:36:18 The Greek world, look at all the great battles other than the battles that they had against Persia. They're all against themselves. They're all warring with each other. Sparta hated Athens and vice versa. They all didn't like each other. Macedon had to conquer everybody to get them to all play nicely. Even that didn't work. They were hoping Alexander would die in Persia. The Maya world, Exactly the same thing.

1:36:40 People say, you know, that the word Mayan empire gets thrown around, but the Mayan empire did not exist. There was never an empire because they couldn't get along. So that all they had were city-states that all worship the same gods, just like in Greece, they all worship the same gods. Some of them put other gods above others and have their own little cults to send the other.

1:36:59 Maya world, exactly the same thing. The Greeks are well known for their columns, you know, their columns and all the things. The Maya have columns that are very similar. very similar as well with the, with cylindrical, you know, a cylindrical column with a rectangular basis on both sides, same sort of architecture. The Maya have, um, temples that look very similar to ancient Greek temples, and they're both prolific users of psychedelics and they both have the most inconspicuous, most obvious iconic pattern in their culture. Have you ever seen this pattern before? It's just a spiral. That is the most common pattern in the Greek world and the Maya world.

1:37:45 So you're saying that this is fascinating because now you're diving into the spiritual. Is that everyone's taking psychedelics of some sort, whether it's peyote.

1:37:55 Oh, and for everyone watching, it's a square to spiral. You can look it up. It's like a square, boom, boom, boom, boom. It's called a meander. That's what they call it, meandering patterns. And it's the most common pattern you see. the Greek world and then that extends into Rome, it's the most common pattern you see in the Maya world.

1:38:12 So you're saying that everyone's doing acid, everyone's doing peyote, everyone's doing ayahuasca somewhere, they are tripping on some sort of psychedelic, somewhere in the ancient history, ancient world, and that that is a doorway into the different realm, the other side, a higher level of consciousness, right? So while a yogi is meditating in a cave for 30 years to get there, instead of using psychedelics, they're taking fast tracks to psychedelics. And it's a rougher ride. From what I understand, a psychedelic is a much rougher ride than going the long way around. Now, by them going, they're all going, they all get tickets to the same place.

1:38:57 It's the same party. Everyone goes to the same party no matter where you are in the world because the other side is the other side. So they're all accessing this higher level of consciousness and that there, the truth is the truth. Pyramid is the strongest thing, the best kind of construction. And these ideas are being allowed for them to come in. So that's why the priests and the oracles and those kind of people were getting this information because they were high on something. So that information, which then becomes protected, because we can't give it to the common folk, they'll destroy each other with it. And that's how they maintained power. And also they were able to, that explains the connection between all of these civilizations, which

1:39:37 had no reason technical reason to have any sort of connection.

1:39:42 That is my Atlantis. That's my Atlantis.

1:39:45 So that is a wonderful... You see, that makes sense to me. Even if... I mean, there's some leaps there. You have to agree that there is another side. You have to agree on a bunch of stuff. But that does make sense. It does also align in many ways with the Atlantean idea of Thoth coming over. And there's like a bunch of eight or nine different chosen ones that went to different areas and and built up these areas, that all still aligns together. Both those stories can be told at the same way. It doesn't contradict each other.

1:40:17 But I find it very plausible that that is, if you're thinking on a spiritual standpoint, very plausible from all the Swamis and yogis and gurus that I've spoken to and mystics that I've spoken to, that higher level of consciousness, you can get to them through psychedelics and being able to access it. That's pretty fascinating.

1:40:38 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show.

1:40:49 I wanted to kind of finish off the Egyptian side of our conversation with two major questions. One, the vases. I hear so much about the vases. Ben from Uncharted, he talks about the vases all the time. Can you explain to the audience what the vases are and what is the the importance of why they're, why they're so important.

1:41:11 And then I'll come up with my last question. Yeah.

1:41:13 Well, uh, it's cool as an archeology nerd to, or an ancient history nerd to see, um, you know, I saw, I saw, so Matt Bell, he's like the main collector of them and, and Ben from Uncharted X, he's like the main promoter, you know what I mean? He's done so much to spread the word about how amazing these vases are. And it's so cool to see, you know, a thousand people retweet this photo of all of, of all of these, uh, predynastic vases sitting on this table and everyone's freaking out about them. That's really cool. Um, so the thing that makes the vases so amazing and so intriguing is like we've been talking about today as one granite. Um, and, uh, we may have talked about diorite a little bit. We talked about dolomite a little bit.

1:42:01 These are some of the hardest stones on the planet. And definitely the hardest stones that ancient cultures were using in their construction. Not only were they using them in construction, actually, if we're going across the established timeline, this is actually before. Before they're just cutting them into these large blocks and using them in their construction. They are making the most beautiful, well-carved, proportionate vases. I mean, that's what we see them as today is vases. that the world has ever seen.

1:42:36 Out of these hard.

1:42:38 Out of granite diorite and grano diorite. And there may be some dolomite vases as well.

1:42:45 So for the audience to understand, it's essentially you found vases made out of diamonds.

1:42:51 Basically.

1:42:52 And that someone carved in diamonds, polished diamonds in a way that in those times would have been inconceivable in today's time.

1:43:02 In a way that is inconceivable today. Right.

1:43:05 Like it's not even doable today is what you're saying. Almost.

1:43:09 It would take an insane investment to be able to make that happen. Yeah.

1:43:13 I mean we're talking about not only engineering but diamond tip this or that.

1:43:19 It would just be astronomical. Computers would have to monitor the process to make sure that the proportions– and other people can explain this better than I can. But computers would have to– you couldn't do it. No human could make it themselves. It would have to be, yeah, a computer would have to make the vase to make sure that the proportions are as accurate as they are. And so that's kind of the thing is people say, okay, well, these may be fraudulent vases that were made today. Well, that were made, you know, because they have a history in dealers over the last hundred years. So they think that maybe the late 1800s, early 1900s, these are uh, fake phases that are made by some kind of, you know,

1:44:02 post-industrial revolution.

1:44:04 But even then it's impossible. Yeah.

1:44:06 It's like, it's like, okay, are you forgetting the fact that we would need a computer today to make this? They weren't doing this a hundred years ago and getting it to these proportions. So it's.

1:44:14 So the proportions of the days are perfect is what you're saying as well.

1:44:16 Yes. And so, so, okay. So you're taking the world's hardest stone. I'll try to explain this the best I can. Um, you're taking basically the ancient world's hardest stones that were used. And you're creating these vases out of them that are, you know, sometimes they're maybe five or six inches tall, five or six inches wide, and they have an interior to them as well. Now, the interior, the wall on the interior is proportionate with the wall on the exterior.

1:44:42 So they're perfectly parallel to each other from the opening of the vase all the way down.

1:44:47 To the bottom of the vase. The width of it is perfect.

1:44:49 The width of it is perfect and perfectly proportional all the way around.

1:44:53 That's insane. Yes. On the hardest, some of the hardest.

1:44:56 And some of them are, so within a degree of, within a degree of, they're perfect, I guess, proportionally or they're parallel to each other. Their proportions are perfect to within a hundredth of a human hair. And some of the vases are so thin that they're as thin as a human hair.

1:45:15 Stop it.

1:45:16 Yeah. Yeah, they're translucent. Because that's impossible.

1:45:18 Like, if you were going to go that thin, it's going to break.

1:45:21 Translucent granite. Imagine that. What? Like, you put a flashlight inside of it, and it turns into a light bulb.

1:45:27 Shut up.

1:45:28 Yeah, yeah.

1:45:29 So no wonder he's losing his mind over it. Like, most people are losing their mind. So how does traditional archaeology explain this?

1:45:36 That they were made by... Craftsmen. Yeah, that they were made by craftsmen in a primitive... during a primitive era of Egypt called the Nakata culture. So you have Nakata one, two, and three. It's like, you know, the three different sections of Nakata culture where we witnessed the pottery change and everything.

1:45:55 Now this isn't pottery, but yeah, they just say that these primitive cultures were carving these by hand. And it's just something that they decided to stop doing before they built the pyramids. That's the.

1:46:10 They do hear themselves, right? As they speak out loud. I mean, this makes no sense. I mean, just again, logically, these vases, so how old do they think these vases are?

1:46:22 So the latest date of these vases is 3100 BC. So right at the same time that Egypt actually is established as a nation.

1:46:32 5,000, 5,400 years.

1:46:32 The oldest is about 4,000. So they think 4,000 to 3,100. BC.

1:46:34 Yeah, BC.

1:46:34 So then we're looking at 6,000 years old. 5,000 to 6,000. 5,000 to 6,000. Like 5,100 to 6,000, yeah.

1:46:47 Which is technically older than the pyramids.

1:46:50 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Technically. Yeah, about 500 to 700 years older, according to the traditional timeline.

1:46:58 Because whoever made those vases could probably make the pyramids, arguably.

1:47:02 I know, right? It's obviously the same, quote-unquote, technology. I mean, the same people could have done either one. And to be honest— Who's to say, and this is kind of, I don't know, I guess this is kind of a big statement, but who's to say that these vases aren't harder to make than just the pyramid itself?

1:47:24 It sounds like it's, but the thing is that the thing that's fascinating is like, look, the pyramid I get because it's a massive construction that had a purpose that we have yet to really understand what it was.

1:47:36 Yeah.

1:47:37 That there's something big going on there. Sure. This is like a vase. Mm-hmm. I mean, unless the vase is connected to some sort of electrical grid around the world and happens to just be this big, this is more for decoration or ceremony or something small because it's a small item. It's not a grand item. But the way it's made, it's made with grand technology.

1:48:02 Oh, I mean, it has to be.

1:48:05 So then this is essentially you and me carving wood. fiddling wood and making a little horse out of a piece of wood. Get this.

1:48:13 Get this too. So um, I think there's a YouTube, there's a YouTube channel that tried to recreate these vases. And now can you with an ancient lathe? So here's, here's a whole other part of this mystery is that these vases, um, are thought to have been chiseled away by hand chisels. This idea of this idea of a lathe that you could put a stone Um, the best way I can describe a lathe is, uh, and I'm not an engineer. Um, but it's, it's a one to two people are turning a crank and you're essentially spinning some kind of drill onto a piece of stone where you can make a vase out of it, but it's not going to have the smoothness and the, and the proportions and the exactness.

1:48:58 And the precision from top to bottom.

1:49:00 It's not, it's not going to have that. And to carve. So you gotta think it, it would be more understandable. If the vase was almost halfway solid and there was one, you know, like if I were to sit here and go, I could cut this very rough, ugly hole inside of a vase. But to make the walls proportionate all the way around.

1:49:20 How did you get in there?

1:49:22 How did you get in there? That's the thing. That's the thing that a lathe wouldn't be able to do. So this YouTube channel recreated the vases, but they're very rough, you know, very, very rough.

1:49:33 Same materials.

1:49:34 Um, yeah, they tried to do it as close as they could and they recreated the vase, but it's not, it's not precise like the, like these ancient ones were. It's a, it's a rough, I mean, they're very, very rough vases and it took them eight months to do it for one vase, for one vase to make a rough, ugly copy of what the, of what all, of what these ancient pre-dynasty vases look like. Now, here's the thing is that Zosser in the step pyramid of Saqqara that we talked about, he was buried with 40,000 vases.

1:50:06 Of this kind? Yes.

1:50:08 40,000 of them. So this is just normal? This is just normal? So think about that. You, I would bet.

1:50:17 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show.

1:50:27 I would bet anything that you and I can get in the car and go to, if Austin has a museum of ancient history or something, if there's an Egyptian section, there'll be one of these vases there. They're that common. There's one in San Antonio that I went and took photos of last week. They're everywhere. Every single Egyptian museum you go into, you will find.

1:50:45 One of those vases. Matt Bell has 17 of them.

1:50:48 There had to be... Thousands. Hundreds of thousands. Hundreds of thousands, I would say. Yeah.

1:50:54 It would be as common as this glass that we have on our.

1:50:57 Yeah. So if it takes me... I just don't think there would be hundreds of thousands of them if it took seven months, six to eight months to make one.

1:51:04 No, of course not.

1:51:07 Yeah, yeah. So that's why people are freaking out because it's amazing. All right, so how do we get the dates? Because everything gets tossed up into– because it's such a popular idea. Everything gets tossed up into could this be 12,000 years old? It's just an interesting topic to think about. So here's how we find them. They're basically– almost all found in graves. Just because it's found in a grave from a certain time period does not mean that it is from that time. Yeah, that it's from that time period.

1:51:39 These are things that could have been handed down, inherited, whatever. So we find them in Nubian graves, or at least that's kind of where the original ones are found in the early 1900s when they start being documented. And I think they're documented in the 1800s as well, When people start really taking notice, because for the longest time in Egyptology, all they're looking for is gold. So it's so funny.

1:52:04 This is how crazy archaeology and Egyptology could be. And we're not that far removed from it, is that when Egyptology first started and archaeologists are going into Egypt, they're opening up the sarcophagus and looking for the gold and they're grabbing the bones and like throwing them out of the way. Yeah, they're taking, you know, old royal mummies and going, get these bones out of here. When gold was.

1:52:26 Like $ 1. 50 an ounce or something.

1:52:29 They're looking for all the treasures. They're tossing these vases to the side, you know, and all they're looking for is the treasure. Oh, it's not here. Well, let's just take all this stuff and put it in storage. And so you have the literal bones of some of the most important people in all of history in cardboard boxes today.

1:52:48 because their sarcophagus was violated by old Egyptologists. And the flesh that was on these old mummies to fund these archaeological expeditions, they created this fake scam product called Mumia. And it was supposedly, it was like a ground-up liquefied version of ancient mummy remains. And they would sell it to people in Europe that it was supposedly cure their ailments.

1:53:18 So they're like violating the sites that they are.

1:53:22 Um, Jesus. Yeah.

1:53:23 I mean, they're, they're, yeah, it's, they're, it's, um, it's insane.

1:53:27 Yeah.

1:53:27 It's, it's crazy. We're not that we're not that far removed.

1:53:30 We're not.

1:53:30 So, so these vases start, people start taking notice around the late 18 hundreds. And so where most of them are found are Nubian grave sites in Aswan, Egypt, which is kind of at the bottom of the Nile, the Southern tip of the Nile in Egypt. And so these are 5,000 to 5,500-year-old graves that they're unearthing. And we know how old they are because you can just carbon date the person that's buried with them. And they'll have this stone vase next to them with, as far as we know, nothing in the vase unless, you know, these archaeological digs were so poorly managed that they didn't even document what was in it. Or they turn it up and pour it upside down. They're like, oh, it was dirt.

1:54:05 But really the dirt was something else, you know. So who knows? Oh, my God.

1:54:09 God knows what's been lost.

1:54:10 Yeah, yeah.

1:54:11 So, so much has been lost.

1:54:12 Yeah.

1:54:14 However, when a couple of friends of mine, Brothers of the Serpent, if you've ever seen their podcast, they're two really, really cool guys. Yeah, Kyle and Russ, they went to Egypt and they saw photos of what they were told was a 10,000-year-old gravesite. Like early pre, you know, there are museums in Egypt for pre-dynastic Egypt. So dynastic Egypt is what we all think of when we imagine the pharaoh standing like this. There are museums about what was going on in Egypt before that. And in one of them, there's a photo of what they say was a 10,000-year-old grave.

1:54:50 And in that photo is one of those stone vases.

1:54:53 It's been around forever.

1:54:54 It's been around for a long time. And they're finding these vases at Gobekli Tepe too. Not exactly the same, bigger, but similar. And this just came out. That discovery of these vases at Gobekli Tepe, I think that that got publicized like two weeks ago or last week or something.

1:55:12 Luke, man, I appreciate you coming on the show so, so much, man. I look forward to our next conversation about Mesoamerica and about all the other cool stuff. But this has been on and around. Where can people find out more about you, man?

1:55:25 You just basically just Google my name, Luke Caverns, L-U-K-E-C-A-V-E-R-N-S. And that's my YouTube, Instagram. And basically, I was thinking about recently I've been thinking about, you know, I'm writing my first book. It's over the Olmecs right now. Um, and I'm also writing that book on Alexandria, but that'll be a long time from now. Um, I've been thinking about, well, you know, what exactly is it that I do as an anthropologist? And I think what I like studying is, uh, cross-cultural connections, like ancient cultures interacting with each other. And what I'm realizing is that I'm really enjoying trying to put together the puzzle pieces that we'll talk about, um, of ancient Central American and South American cultures, how they're

1:56:08 interacting with each other through the jungles of Panama, which is extremely hard to to cross, even crossing the Pacific Ocean or the coastlines, and how they're sharing ideas with each other. And there's a lot of mystery there, as well as how the Greeks, the Egyptians, and the Romans all interact in the city of Alexandria. And there's something about the way that cultures meeting that I really enjoy studying and writing and making videos about. So yeah, that's basically what I do. And people can find my videos where I talk about mysteries of Central America, South America, and a little bit of like Greco-Roman Egypt as well.

1:56:47 So yeah, just on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, whatever.

1:56:50 Appreciate you, man. Thank you for everything you're doing, man.

1:56:52 Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on.

1:56:57 Thank you for spending this sacred time with us today. If you feel called to explore this conversation further, you'll find the show notes for this episode at nextlevelsoul.com forward slash 466. And if your soul is craving an even deeper journey, step into Next Level Soul TV, our streaming sanctuary for spiritual films, documentaries, original shows, guided meditations, channeling sessions, audiobooks, and transformative teachings. It's a space created to support your awakening, your healing, and your return to the truth of who you really are. Begin your journey at nextlevelsoul.tv. Until next time, keep expanding, keep seeking, and keep walking your path towards the next level of your soul.