E318- 21 Years Working With Dogs In One Podcast / Eric Stanbro

[UNKNOWN]: They're still, they're still tons of trainers in this country, teaching alpha rolling, a lot of helicoptering. [UNKNOWN]: You know, the leash. [UNKNOWN]: There weren't no, we swing the dog overhead. [UNKNOWN]: You know, yeah, that's taught a lot of plays. [UNKNOWN]: No, yeah, oh yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[UNKNOWN]: Hold on. [UNKNOWN]: Eric, thanks for coming on. [UNKNOWN]: Thanks for coming on. [UNKNOWN]: Thank you, man. [UNKNOWN]: Why don't you introduce yourself to people who don't know who you are and we'll get rolling. [UNKNOWN]: All right. [UNKNOWN]: My name is Eric Stambro. [UNKNOWN]: I've been training dogs since 2005.

[UNKNOWN]: I'm a retired cop. [UNKNOWN]: I was a policeman in Canton, Ohio for years. [UNKNOWN]: got hired in 1996, got in the K9 Unit 05, was just a handler for till about the end of 2010, became the head train in 2011, did that where a very busy police department, very busy K9 Unit, lots of action, and then late 2013 it took a leave absence, I went out to California and trained dogs for the Navy SEALs for a little while on the contract that a company had, [UNKNOWN]: came back, they put me in back in full-time training, and I did that until I retired, right?

[UNKNOWN]: In 2018, towards the end of my career, I started, I have a company called VanS, K9 Academy, and I started doing pet dogs through VanS, and police dogs and pet dogs. [UNKNOWN]: And when I retired, I was doing both terribly, in my opinion, at first, the pet dog stuff, kind of trying to do it like the police dog stuff.

[UNKNOWN]: Now I completely flip that, I train police dogs like I do pet dogs. [UNKNOWN]: And then I started running into like some advertising issues, like people would go to my website and they're like, well, I'll I see on your website is police dogs, but I have a pet dog, I'm like, well, go to Instagram as police dogs, pet dogs run on the, you know, Facebook page, but a lieutenant goes to Facebook and he looks it up and all he sees is Fluffy's.

[UNKNOWN]: And so I'm like, I suppose I'm gonna go to [UNKNOWN]: I split it up in my buddy, Aaron Taylor owns a company called Ridside Canine and he was licensing other locations. [UNKNOWN]: So I bought the Ohio location, 2019, I just kind of sat on it and didn't really do anything with it until late 2020 and like everybody in 2020 we exploded during COVID and my system and philosophy had changed and changed and changed and changed and [UNKNOWN]: So, yeah, now I just do police dogs stuff on the van aside, pet dogs stuff on the ridge side side.

[UNKNOWN]: I sold that company to one of my trainers at the end of the year, and I just worked for him now and trained dogs. [UNKNOWN]: I find myself happier with a leash, you know? [UNKNOWN]: then run in a business. [UNKNOWN]: I think if I was, so he's like 36, 37, perfect timing for him. [UNKNOWN]: I wanted, I'm retired, but I'm not retired.

[UNKNOWN]: You know, I mean, I retired from police department, and I'm not retired, you know. [UNKNOWN]: So I was like, yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't know if I want to deal with all that, you know, the business side of things. [UNKNOWN]: It wasn't all that great at it. [UNKNOWN]: I probably gave away too much.

[UNKNOWN]: When I was a cop dude, I was a mean person, but I am overly nice to my people. [UNKNOWN]: I think give a chance after a chance after a chance. [UNKNOWN]: You know, things that I should have been firing people for, I wasn't. [UNKNOWN]: And then eventually, of course, it always, you know, that type of stuff.

[UNKNOWN]: So I'm just happier with the leash and the old bag of food. [UNKNOWN]: Hennie call it. [UNKNOWN]: What makes you not a happy person when you're a cannot officer? [UNKNOWN]: Oh, when I was, can I, no, I was just, well, the admin stuff is always a problem, always. [UNKNOWN]: Nobody, so nobody leaves law enforcement or retires.

[UNKNOWN]: I retired early in the pension, like I could have stayed and made a lot more money in my pension. [UNKNOWN]: Like, my pension money, I don't take any of it. [UNKNOWN]: It's all invested. [UNKNOWN]: Every time it comes in, I invest it. [UNKNOWN]: And it's never the job, never the work. [UNKNOWN]: We sign up for the work.

[UNKNOWN]: It's always administrative garbage, always. [UNKNOWN]: It destroys guys who want to do police work. [UNKNOWN]: Absolutely destroys. [UNKNOWN]: And so I spent my entire time as the trainer fighting crappy supervisors really have just fighting them and fighting them and they all have an agenda and they if they don't like the K9 program they're going to do everything they can to try to destroy it.

[UNKNOWN]: It's non-stop. [UNKNOWN]: I was telling the story that something the other day I have a time sharing a rubah that I go to as a matter of fact this Saturday I'm leaving. [UNKNOWN]: Nice. [UNKNOWN]: Same time every year once I became the trainer every year I would be spending [UNKNOWN]: a couple hours a day of my vacation in a foreign country on email, fighting off these stupid supervisors.

[UNKNOWN]: And then I retired and then I got the business and I'm sitting on the beach on my phone, looking at the CRM, looking at sales, looking at this and that because there's overhead as you know and everything like that, this will be my first vacation that I'm not gonna need to do any of that. [UNKNOWN]: not literally any of it.

[UNKNOWN]: If I want to check and see if somebody email me about maybe doing a seminar, yeah, if I'm bored at night, maybe I'll check on it. [UNKNOWN]: I don't have to. [UNKNOWN]: And right now, what are you? [UNKNOWN]: What are you doing with your seminars and stuff? [UNKNOWN]: Because I know you're here in Albany working with police departments.

[UNKNOWN]: What is your schedule look like right now as far as like the seminars in the events and stuff go? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, so the seminar I'm pretty busy and pretty booked up. [UNKNOWN]: The seminars are three days. [UNKNOWN]: Sometimes I'll do four days a little more advanced current the current topic is E collar for working dogs it's based off of my my book is based off of my seminars and so that's the current one I'm doing you know I used to do I did for a couple years on my seminars were like scenario based training I met you here.

[UNKNOWN]: And Albany, that was where that kicked off in 2018. [UNKNOWN]: And we did that for a while, and now this is the one I'm doing. [UNKNOWN]: And I was like, maybe I'll put that in the inventory, the E-Color 1, and I'll maybe I'll come up with a different similar old people. [UNKNOWN]: They just keep wanting the E-Color 1, and they keep wanting it.

[UNKNOWN]: So I'll book myself off of the seminar circuit for about a month or two. [UNKNOWN]: do five, six pet dogs at a time, kind of to stay fresh, and I like it, right? [UNKNOWN]: I like doing it, and then I'll get back on the seminar circuit, which I'm out now, and I'll go every single week somewhere else in the country until December.

[UNKNOWN]: And it's just police departments. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, police departments. [UNKNOWN]: I allow, if they all allow it, I allow some audit spots. [UNKNOWN]: Sometimes there are civilians. [UNKNOWN]: I find if I do it for civilians, which is cool. [UNKNOWN]: Like my system works for pets and police dogs.

[UNKNOWN]: It's a little different because of the bite stuff on the police dog side. [UNKNOWN]: It's, um, [UNKNOWN]: not as well-attended if it's through pet stuff, you know, I have a name but not that name in the police world because my podcast and everything and my social media I have a bigger bigger name there.

[UNKNOWN]: And I feel like as a pet dog trainer primarily myself, I feel like canine officers have a better rep because you get a lot of, you said it out there before we hit record where you were talking about how and you even just said it now in your intro where you were saying like I used to train [UNKNOWN]: my police dogs the same way I would train my pet dogs and now you've reversed that where you're training your police dogs like you train your pet dogs so we find a lot in the pet training world where a lot of either military ex-handlers or police ex-handlers or even them still being on the street they they seem to be very heavy-handed and kind of [UNKNOWN]: to much, like, whether it's with the dog or it's with the person.

[UNKNOWN]: They don't have the patience or whatever, not all of them, obviously. [UNKNOWN]: You know, but I would say that you are probably from what I've seen in an outlier in that space. [UNKNOWN]: Why do you think that that happens? [UNKNOWN]: It's just, they're still, they were taught stuff, taught to them.

[UNKNOWN]: By there, guys, taught to them by other people, blah, blah, blah. [UNKNOWN]: And it goes all the way back to the late 70s or early 80s. [UNKNOWN]: all the time. [UNKNOWN]: You ain't can crank you. [UNKNOWN]: We know you've heard that term. [UNKNOWN]: That is they believe that they're taught that these police dogs are like a whole another level.

[UNKNOWN]: When they're really not, right? [UNKNOWN]: They're still dogs. [UNKNOWN]: And I always tell people, police dogs are easy because they're so motivated, food, toy, scratch, whatever. [UNKNOWN]: They're so motivated, pet dogs, you know, it's pressure it was what works for most of those dogs. [UNKNOWN]: They're, you know, none of them will work for a toy.

[UNKNOWN]: And half of them won't take food, right? [UNKNOWN]: So they're just taught, you know, in all their corrections, bang, real hard, you know, let them know, let them know. [UNKNOWN]: And it's like, let them know what? [UNKNOWN]: I thought you liked that guy, that dog, right? [UNKNOWN]: And we were trying to set this relationship up with you guys and the guys wonder why they, you know, their shoulder moves getting ready to do a correction and the dog bites them.

[UNKNOWN]: But of course he's sick of it, right? [UNKNOWN]: So I was brought up that way. [UNKNOWN]: I'd train that way forever and then for after a while I was like, man, there's gotta be a better way. [UNKNOWN]: I can't keep fighting these dogs, right? [UNKNOWN]: And so part of my PowerPoint I asked guys, how many of you guys are getting bit by your dogs?

[UNKNOWN]: And I said, on the regular, and every once in a while, guys like, yeah, on the regular, I'm like, do how stressful of a life is that? [UNKNOWN]: because the bites are bad, right? [UNKNOWN]: I met a guy in North Carolina, he'd been bitten nine times by his hospitalized, like seven times. [UNKNOWN]: I'm still working that dog over a toy every time.

[UNKNOWN]: I'm like, buddy, we gotta change something. [UNKNOWN]: Now, sometimes those dogs shouldn't be police dogs, and I've trained those dogs, been in the past. [UNKNOWN]: But, [UNKNOWN]: They're just taught to, you know, they're still, they're still tons of trainers in this country, teaching alpha rolling, a lot of helicoptering, you know, the leash.

[UNKNOWN]: The word no, we swing the dog overhead. [UNKNOWN]: You know, yeah, that's taught a lot of place. [UNKNOWN]: No, yeah, oh yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Wait, wait, wait, wait. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Hold on, say that again. [UNKNOWN]: So you're saying that people will still pick up dogs and string around their head.

[UNKNOWN]: Yep, they still do it if it's like, in the listen, if the dog tries to bite me, I'll hang a dog That's a florist, right? [UNKNOWN]: That's different. [UNKNOWN]: That's different. [UNKNOWN]: But the helicoptering that comes from the 70s out of Europe. [UNKNOWN]: And there are departments in old schools mostly East Coast still teach helicoptering.

[UNKNOWN]: They still teach it. [UNKNOWN]: Wow. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and it's got to show him boss is the mentality of a lot of these places. [UNKNOWN]: And so I was like, I gotta I gotta change that attitude. [UNKNOWN]: And that's one of the big things that I teach him. [UNKNOWN]: Like I was doing [UNKNOWN]: we're layering the e-colour over heel today on dogs.

[UNKNOWN]: And I use it to kind of show them some tricks and stuff for their certifications. [UNKNOWN]: And if they compete in the police dog world, easy things. [UNKNOWN]: And how to clear up that relationship, and I'm always like, yeah, man, look, I'm working your dog with two fingers on the leash.

[UNKNOWN]: Not white knuckles, not wrapped around my hand. [UNKNOWN]: And never did I bang on that dog. [UNKNOWN]: You don't need to do that. [UNKNOWN]: And it goes all the way back to the prong collar, for example. [UNKNOWN]: When I was a handler in the beginning and then as a trainer we had one prong collar and we had one e-colour It was called the prong collar and the e-colour go get the prong collar out of the drawer and you're like oh man my doc sucks I got to get the prong collar and it was always for forging [UNKNOWN]: And it was four out of the heel.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, whether it had too much. [UNKNOWN]: And it was from the out where we would just put that on that dog in the baseball bat grip that leash is slashed. [UNKNOWN]: And so if the dog didn't out, correct. [UNKNOWN]: You just smash them until they come off. [UNKNOWN]: So the view of a lot of police agencies is that the, [UNKNOWN]: The prank call is the ultimate correction.

[UNKNOWN]: That's what it's for. [UNKNOWN]: That's you Shit, we gave them every chance. [UNKNOWN]: Go get the prank call out and I've still I still hear it, man I see it all the time and I'm like listen guys. [UNKNOWN]: I put prank calls on puppies now I put prank calls on every dog I train and look [UNKNOWN]: I had today, I had this dog, and I had at least looped over one finger, and that was enough pressure.

[UNKNOWN]: As they taught in five minutes, I taught pressure on pressure off of the collar. [UNKNOWN]: And those are things I didn't know, dude, I'm telling you, I did all those bad, all those things. [UNKNOWN]: You train what you know. [UNKNOWN]: And so I always tell people, my training system is evolved so many times.

[UNKNOWN]: If there's a thing I'm doing now to not even in my book, and my book's only two years old. [UNKNOWN]: A huge thing I'm doing to enough one, I might do a second edition. [UNKNOWN]: And it's just like dogs teach me things, I steal stuff from people, I learn things from other trainers and I learn things from myself, kind of just thinking, you know, I'm like you, somebody asked me, can you go a whole day without saying the word dog, I'm like, you know what's that?

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: No, it's impossible, even on your time off, you can't. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, was there something that had switched, like when you said, like, you know what, this isn't, this isn't for me. [UNKNOWN]: Was there a certain dog, a certain trainer, a certain seminar, a certain scenario where you started to, or was it a gradual learning process of like, you know what?

[UNKNOWN]: I can do this different. [UNKNOWN]: Um, so, you know, [UNKNOWN]: I'll give you a great example. [UNKNOWN]: When I first started at 05 as a handler, the class was 14 or 15 weeks long every day, money through Friday, an hour of obedience every morning and can crank on the dog, no e-colour, no prawn collar, just a choke chain and no reward.

[UNKNOWN]: So for 55 minutes we would yank on these dogs and then the last five minutes we would split up into different corners of the [UNKNOWN]: And the trainer, just because of what he was taught, thought that the dog understood that that was a reward for, you know, beating the crap out of him for 55 minutes, right?

[UNKNOWN]: And dogs yawning. [UNKNOWN]: and shaking and they come on the field every morning for an hour. [UNKNOWN]: And I remember when I took over his trainer. [UNKNOWN]: And so week 12 of that 14 week school, we had to close the gates on the field and put a car in front of it because we were gonna go off leash 12 weeks.

[UNKNOWN]: And we're doing group obedience. [UNKNOWN]: And sure, shit, we had dogs run off. [UNKNOWN]: We were carrying a ball to get him back, not to play with him, to get him back, dogs fighting 12 weeks in, couldn't do an awfully shield. [UNKNOWN]: So then I take over his trainer. [UNKNOWN]: I got the same problems, but I think, well, that's just police dogs.

[UNKNOWN]: That's just what they do. [UNKNOWN]: These assholes, shepherds, and blah, blah, blah, that's what they do. [UNKNOWN]: And then I remember I was like two or three classes in, and I was like, there's got to be something different here. [UNKNOWN]: It's got to be different, and I consulted this old school, shoots in guy that had been at our place, and he was a cop and everything.

[UNKNOWN]: He's like, OK, well, now that you're in charge, I can show you something. [UNKNOWN]: And we started doing a focus heel, you know, put the toy up here. [UNKNOWN]: It was an easy cheat code, because even the most nervous green handler, a new handler could throw a fist up at certification, and the dog would, you know, plant straight through it.

[UNKNOWN]: So the, and dude, the, the, the the circumstances are not hard, but we, we made it hard, right? [UNKNOWN]: So then I was like, well, that's cool, but that's not really a heel to me, you know, I don't want to, if I got to walk through a group of people, I don't want to put a ball up here, plus I had a dog, I dropped a ball, he caught it and hit me in a face and I got all my front teeth out.

[UNKNOWN]: Oh, shit. [UNKNOWN]: So I was like, we got to come up with something different. [UNKNOWN]: So then I was using the balls of a ward through it, which worked, you know, it was cool. [UNKNOWN]: I could work there and give them a [UNKNOWN]: So then the first biggest change in my entire training career was that same guy goes, okay, now you're ready and we're going to start using food.

[UNKNOWN]: And then I started using food for everything. [UNKNOWN]: And I still do. [UNKNOWN]: So the first number one change in my career of training was food. [UNKNOWN]: And I had people come back to me for their second dog and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna show you the food. [UNKNOWN]: And if you wanna go back and do it the way we were doing with the toy, I'll work with you and give you some leeway there and not one of them ever.

[UNKNOWN]: Said, and then we went from an hour a day to 10 minutes at a time, maybe five sessions, 10, 15 minutes at the most. [UNKNOWN]: 10 reps, put them up, five reps, put them up, 10 reps, put them up. [UNKNOWN]: when I met when I started working with Aaron and I learned so e-collar again we had one e-collar to police department we were just smoking dogs at 127 on the doctor and we thought that's what you do right and then it doesn't work.

[UNKNOWN]: right because the dog's learned to hold on and it's that's a whole that need of problems. [UNKNOWN]: But I thought that's what you did and I remember we'd be going through training and the handler would be like, don't we? [UNKNOWN]: Don't we? [UNKNOWN]: Don't we gotta do it out here like pretty soon like for class.

[UNKNOWN]: And I'm like, ah, two weeks, we'll get it up and just put the color on them. [UNKNOWN]: And, uh, [UNKNOWN]: And then the first dog I did it to, I'm like, oh, no, like, I should have been working on this a while ago, because the dog just learned then to hold on, you know, hold on, hold on, hold on, and so I just started learning some e-colour, a red Larry Crohn's book, which was a good basic little thing, especially for the pad stuff.

[UNKNOWN]: I started doing the way Larry does some things. [UNKNOWN]: And just started learning stuff and then I hooked up [UNKNOWN]: And Aaron Taylor's philosophy on E-collar and dog behavior and things like that, click with me so well. [UNKNOWN]: And then we started doing a thing called tone avoidance on the E-collar.

[UNKNOWN]: And that's the second biggest thing that I've done in training. [UNKNOWN]: And I find especially on pet dogs, tone avoidance fixes about 90% of people's problems when they come in. [UNKNOWN]: The, the prom collar finishes fixes the other 10% with pulling tone avoidance fixes most behavior problems after that.

[UNKNOWN]: I've never looked back. [UNKNOWN]: So tone avoidance is using the tone on the collar as a negative marker to the dog and a warning that their behaviors about to get them corrected, not me. [UNKNOWN]: You or the environment. [UNKNOWN]: So we put the onus for all the corrections on the dog shoulders, your fault, not my fault.

[UNKNOWN]: Or the kitchen to the trash can to that to you, not me. [UNKNOWN]: Kitty litter to that to you, not me. [UNKNOWN]: And so on the cover of my book, it says, be a Punisher of leader live for not a Punisher to fear. [UNKNOWN]: So what happens is we get these dogs that come in and we're changing the relationship because we don't talk to the dogs, we correct their behavior.

[UNKNOWN]: So the philosophy is if the behavior causes the correction, the behavior stops. [UNKNOWN]: And just like a positive marker, the negative marker of the tone has more value than the actual stem itself. [UNKNOWN]: takes guys a little bit of time to grasp and that's what I'm teaching and these things and it takes that conflict away from the handler and the police dog that they've had problems and pet owners the difference is the conflict with the police dog guys is that dog will blow them off or bite them the pet dog trainers the dog will become super nervous in their presence or blow them off [UNKNOWN]: And so, a lot of people use no as a negative marker, like this command, no correction, and it works.

[UNKNOWN]: I just take the no out because I don't want them to know that I did that. [UNKNOWN]: Like I'm taking the association way for me and I just use tone. [UNKNOWN]: And so all the problems that we've tried all kinds of other different remedies for, especially in the police side, tone fixes pretty much all of them.

[UNKNOWN]: And it's sticks into the dog and then what happens is when the dog only has himself the blame, you can leave the room. [UNKNOWN]: to go get something to drink and come back and not watch underpants go down the dog's throat or something it builds manners because the dog's like, well, I'm not.

[UNKNOWN]: That things hot, I got myself in trouble before, right? [UNKNOWN]: And you just give them that chance. [UNKNOWN]: How much do you find the collar awareness to be an issue with that with pets or working dogs? [UNKNOWN]: Call as far as wearing it, do you mean? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, like if they go, this whole beeping thing, I don't know, and you know what I mean?

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I find it, so the owners love it because they don't have to stem that much. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, the reason why tone works is because it's backed up by stem. [UNKNOWN]: When we teach it, I take the dog and I put him in a room full of, [UNKNOWN]: peanut butter and food and tissue paper and all these things laying around and then you go up to I go tone stem, tone stem, tone stem and about two minutes the dog will stand in the middle of the room or go over and stand next to the hand or the owner or me or the trainer or whatever.

[UNKNOWN]: And so then when they come and do the the go home lesson or maybe we come to their house and do it and that dog comes running over and get ready to jump on and we get beep on the tone and they sit [UNKNOWN]: and there's like, you mean I didn't have to do anything there? [UNKNOWN]: No. [UNKNOWN]: We do reiterate to them, listen, if the dog goes to get the thing, the past fire, the baby just dropped and you at Tony doesn't stop.

[UNKNOWN]: It's not Tony again. [UNKNOWN]: You have to stem. [UNKNOWN]: That's why it works. [UNKNOWN]: So they like it because [UNKNOWN]: They, you know, how sometimes they're like, well, you know, I, I've been using the vibrate because I didn't want to use the stem, you know, you see that we see that a lot because the colors were used in has both the Dr. 2 EDX has both.

[UNKNOWN]: And so where the issue comes from the owners anyways is when they don't wear the color. [UNKNOWN]: Right. [UNKNOWN]: That's if that's what you're getting. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, they go awareness. [UNKNOWN]: And I'm my thing with them is all colors all day, put it on. [UNKNOWN]: I teach the dog stick your head out through that crate.

[UNKNOWN]: Get this is an action signal I'll put it on you and we'll go out. [UNKNOWN]: And I tell everybody, well, he only listens when he has the color on. [UNKNOWN]: I go because you keep taking it off. [UNKNOWN]: You can't correct him. [UNKNOWN]: You put it back on then you correct him and he's like, oh, that's anybody can figure that even a four year old toddler dog can figure that out.

[UNKNOWN]: You know, and so and then everybody asks so at the end of the go so is this forever? [UNKNOWN]: Do I get aware of this collar forever and I say I don't know your dog will tell you You know it might be six years. [UNKNOWN]: It might be two years. [UNKNOWN]: It might be forever. [UNKNOWN]: You know It's like I have an eight-year-old lab.

[UNKNOWN]: She is amazing. [UNKNOWN]: She has no behavioral problems or anything else But when she's awfully shouts side in my yard and I let her go to the bathroom I put a collar on her because she likes deer poop [UNKNOWN]: right eight years old still likes it but now um it's that deer poop is straight up ghost pepper so she knows you you'll see her look at it and just take off running for the house are you are you is the dog has to know the behavior you're marking right so like the peanut butter for an example are you are you are you are you are you are you saying leave it or are you just okay they go up to it we get tone stem [UNKNOWN]: So how do they know what they can have and what they can't have?

[UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: There's food, like their dish, and maybe a passie over here. [UNKNOWN]: So once it's like, it basically it's almost in theory like an underground fence on all your stuff, right? [UNKNOWN]: And so we never tone them off of the dog bed. [UNKNOWN]: There are bowls or anything like that, but I'll tell you for a perfect example.

[UNKNOWN]: To me, everything's in the moment with the dog. [UNKNOWN]: I had a dog in my house the other day. [UNKNOWN]: I took him home. [UNKNOWN]: He was a building. [UNKNOWN]: I was training in the facility, but I'm like, all his problems to the owners are in the house. [UNKNOWN]: So I'm going to take him home for a couple of days.

[UNKNOWN]: Let's see what he is. [UNKNOWN]: And I let him loose and wild and toned him off of things. [UNKNOWN]: And what he was doing was obsessively drinking water. [UNKNOWN]: and I let him drink a little bit and then I toned him off that water and he walked away. [UNKNOWN]: He did not make him afraid of the water, but in that moment he knew he was done with that.

[UNKNOWN]: He went back later and I let him, you know, when I gave him permission to go get it. [UNKNOWN]: What I don't want is dogs thinking they can just go grab anything they want off the ground, right? [UNKNOWN]: So we just pick a bunch of stuff and what happens is we do it in our facility, I put all that stuff out.

[UNKNOWN]: two times in that room that we use it in that room is dead. [UNKNOWN]: They, you go in there and they're like, huh, not touching any of this stuff. [UNKNOWN]: We're putting out sticks of butter, just all kinds of things. [UNKNOWN]: And they're like, nope, gonna leave that alone, leave that alone, tone of avoidance is what we call.

[UNKNOWN]: And so then when they do that at their house, you tone them off the things, they're not allowed to mess with, and they just leave it alone. [UNKNOWN]: And we come actually pretty trustworthy in it. [UNKNOWN]: keeping in mind that they're a dog, and you know, and two years down the road they're like, well, he's not looking, let me go eat the cat poop, you know, and we speak.

[UNKNOWN]: So, and the nice thing is the reason why we don't take, tell them leave it. [UNKNOWN]: So, what happens to is, when you notice, especially, I point this out to the police dog, guys, I'm using equipment, bite equipment, stuff on the ground, everything that, and that's what I use to tone them and stem them off of it, but they're not in drive, and I put the bite suit on, they'll still bite it.

[UNKNOWN]: But the dog, when he gets stemmed, so one of the things I do in day one is I, when the first time the dogs in the room, I'm just put some innocuous stuff in there. [UNKNOWN]: Trash can a big thing of dog training food to take, I don't want them jam in their head and I kick my shoe in there.

[UNKNOWN]: And when I'm doing these things, I wear $19 Walmart shoes. [UNKNOWN]: And I kick my shoe in there and they go after it. [UNKNOWN]: And he goes tone stem and they have to go as high as they have to go to get that dog to spit it out and that dog never looks at the handler never blames him never turns back He does he blames his behavior of grabbing the shoe and you'll see him back up and look at the shoe And then maybe try it again and maybe not they never blame them even dogs that they're worried about biting the handler They don't blame them for it.

[UNKNOWN]: They blame themselves and dogs are narcissists [UNKNOWN]: They, you know, everything they do is for themselves. [UNKNOWN]: So I'm not going to, I'm not doing that again. [UNKNOWN]: I don't want to get myself in trouble. [UNKNOWN]: And then what you find is dogs just behave. [UNKNOWN]: And on the police dog side, what they do is they stop messing around with stuff and they go work and they do the thing that they're told to do.

[UNKNOWN]: Would you ever be afraid of the dog having the association with the shoe? [UNKNOWN]: And then you put your shoe on, you walk up to the dog and go on. [UNKNOWN]: Never, it's never happened. [UNKNOWN]: No, we do it on purpose that way, I put it on. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Everything is in the moment that picture.

[UNKNOWN]: Right. [UNKNOWN]: But the funny thing is, day two, if I kick my shoe in there, on a dog who's been tearing my shoe up, I can't tell you how many times I've a limp in the Walmart off, you know, on the road with one shoe on. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Drop 20 bucks and got another pair. [UNKNOWN]: And, uh, but.

[UNKNOWN]: I'll kick that shoe in there and I actually I'm pretty almost like a sniper with these shoes now like I can hit the dog from across the room with my shoe they'll just [UNKNOWN]: walk away you seem walk away from it like flipping the middle finger at that shoe like you know a nice try yeah they see you know it's kind of like a sneak of audience without the rattle it's just a tone yeah correct right so it's like whatever that is I don't that's so it's the smell it's the sight it's the sound it's everything they should get out of the lodge you're just picking what this is rattlesnake is correct right and people can and people will say well I can I just hit them on a significant stem like so for example

[UNKNOWN]: Some dogs, if you're searching a person's house, there's burglary or whatever you're searching and they get a little frustrated and they'll go over and nuke somebody's couch cushion happens a lot. [UNKNOWN]: Interesting. [UNKNOWN]: Right. [UNKNOWN]: So then you end up fighting the dog over the couch cushion or it's his thing.

[UNKNOWN]: Now he just satisfies off that couch cushion. [UNKNOWN]: And the handle is, why can't I just hit them on a high stem? [UNKNOWN]: Well, you can and it will work that time. [UNKNOWN]: The next time, it's Groundhog Day. [UNKNOWN]: Always Groundhog, they're going to do it again. [UNKNOWN]: And then after two stems on that couch in one, they just quit working, they come back to you.

[UNKNOWN]: But what happens is, because you're yelling and stemming and they stop and come back to you, and they stop working. [UNKNOWN]: But me, I go tone, they walk away from that tone and what they do is go to work. [UNKNOWN]: And they stop messing with things. [UNKNOWN]: They don't mess with people.

[UNKNOWN]: It doesn't make him afraid of that couch. [UNKNOWN]: They act of biting that couch. [UNKNOWN]: Got me corrected, not him. [UNKNOWN]: Nobody else, my fault. [UNKNOWN]: So we do everything I barely talked to dogs, like barely. [UNKNOWN]: I use the words that they know, that's it. [UNKNOWN]: So when you do heal, [UNKNOWN]: The dog knows the behavior, right, the position, like they would sit or down or whatever.

[UNKNOWN]: And then if the dog passes that they forge forward, right, or they get out of the heel, tone stem. [UNKNOWN]: Great question. [UNKNOWN]: So when it comes to heel, I just use stem on that. [UNKNOWN]: So what I do with stem was heel on police dog's and pet dogs. [UNKNOWN]: I don't food lure heels.

[UNKNOWN]: I'll food lure the auto sit and things like that. [UNKNOWN]: I create that little box next to me. [UNKNOWN]: Inside that box, his love rainbows and unicorn tears is raining on you. [UNKNOWN]: One inch outside the box is a correction. [UNKNOWN]: Your fault dog. [UNKNOWN]: Not my fault. [UNKNOWN]: So I don't say nothing.

[UNKNOWN]: I walk heel. [UNKNOWN]: It's the only time I talk. [UNKNOWN]: I used to do a thing where we would say heel before every turn. [UNKNOWN]: And it was a trick just to get the dog to pay attention. [UNKNOWN]: I do not do that anymore. [UNKNOWN]: I don't talk at all. [UNKNOWN]: I [UNKNOWN]: because they get corrected when they drift or when they forge, maybe I tap stem until they re-correct on it, just using negative reinforcement to- So are you using continuous or just snick?

[UNKNOWN]: Uh, yes. [UNKNOWN]: It depends on the dog, right? [UNKNOWN]: If they're, I like when they forge, I'll use a continuous, but if I see the dog turn their head, like they're trying to figure out how to eat that, I'll use a neck on that. [UNKNOWN]: I'll just have to have to have to have. [UNKNOWN]: I used to be a mostly continuous trainer.

[UNKNOWN]: I'm more of a tap or now. [UNKNOWN]: Um, over the years, day one of the color run using negative reinforcement to layer stem to hear stem to sit and stem to down. [UNKNOWN]: That's almost always continuous. [UNKNOWN]: But after that, it's taps. [UNKNOWN]: Um, I just find it works a little bit easier.

[UNKNOWN]: And so. [UNKNOWN]: Once I have the dog for a long time, like if I'm working the dog and so say it's your dog and I train your dog on tone, tone means no leave it, drop it, ah, all that stuff. [UNKNOWN]: Once it's your dog and you're good and you're doing a lot, that dog drifts off you at tone, he'll come back.

[UNKNOWN]: But in the very beginning, it doesn't really work that way. [UNKNOWN]: It's just, you gotta get him understanding it all times and I hit tone, stop immediately the crap you're doing. [UNKNOWN]: One idea I have when you're saying this I'm just thinking because this is this is new to me. [UNKNOWN]: I've never I've never heard this.

[UNKNOWN]: What if you were to recall a dog so they're off leash you say come. [UNKNOWN]: They don't tone stem. [UNKNOWN]: Do you do you ever have dogs start to associate. [UNKNOWN]: the the behavior with the punishment if it's quick like if the dog is off and you say you know dog come and they don't know rabbit poop tone stem do you ever find like so the behavior has to be solid regardless right they just have to know it yeah and then the tone stem happens because they didn't do said behavior no matter what right [UNKNOWN]: So like so say they're my dog Jesse's off leash She's down towards the end of the yard and I'd see her a new herd of deer come in can always tell when the new ones are in there and She's giving them a whiff if I hit tone

[UNKNOWN]: because it's conditioned into her. [UNKNOWN]: If I hit tone, and she doesn't immediately walk away from it, I hit stem. [UNKNOWN]: She knows exactly why that happened. [UNKNOWN]: Got it. [UNKNOWN]: Exactly why that happened. [UNKNOWN]: Now, the first day of doing that, also, she's sitting there looking at a stem, I always believe that her intentions are there.

[UNKNOWN]: She can't lie to me like a person. [UNKNOWN]: She's thinking about doing it, and I get into her head, tone stem, and she's like, she might blame the poop. [UNKNOWN]: But it's that. [UNKNOWN]: Now, the recall thing is the interesting. [UNKNOWN]: I do another thing called a tone recall. [UNKNOWN]: And tone recalls just tone.

[UNKNOWN]: And I can send you a video of my dog doing it at home. [UNKNOWN]: All I do is she's at the end of the yard. [UNKNOWN]: And it's holding the tone. [UNKNOWN]: I don't talk to her at all. [UNKNOWN]: 100 miles an hour. [UNKNOWN]: She gets back to me. [UNKNOWN]: I have a lot of fun. [UNKNOWN]: We do, I do tone recall for police dogs, for pet dogs.

[UNKNOWN]: If we're out hiking, I take dogs, off leash, hiking, and stuff, they'll be walking. [UNKNOWN]: they'll take one trail. [UNKNOWN]: I'll take the other and I just hold tone to they come flying up to catch up to me. [UNKNOWN]: I hold it, let go. [UNKNOWN]: Please dog-wise, it's to move dogs around buildings and things like that.

[UNKNOWN]: And when they're off duty, they can have fun and play with the tone recall. [UNKNOWN]: And there's no calm that comes with that. [UNKNOWN]: Now I do teach, come, and there's a correction for not doing that. [UNKNOWN]: If I say, come, and you don't, it's STEM. [UNKNOWN]: So by the time I get to there, the dog is on consequence.

[UNKNOWN]: If I say, sit, and they don't sit, STEM. [UNKNOWN]: I'm not doing tone. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that makes sense. [UNKNOWN]: How do you differentiate the tone correction marker, the audible marker versus the tone recall? [UNKNOWN]: They understand the difference between the long tone and short tone bleeder.

[UNKNOWN]: Okay. [UNKNOWN]: I got you. [UNKNOWN]: No, that makes sense. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: I just didn't know that you were using the different tones, like if you do a long tone versus it. [UNKNOWN]: Now, I will do a thing we call tone sandwich, where I hold tone and that dog's coming to me and they're like squirrel.

[UNKNOWN]: And they go look at something. [UNKNOWN]: I can get on stem to the recommit and back on stem, back on tone. [UNKNOWN]: Right. [UNKNOWN]: And the other big thing I'm doing now with tone is a thing I call tone follow. [UNKNOWN]: and it's basically a precursor to movement. [UNKNOWN]: So what I started messing with this with, had dogs come into the facility and they walk in and they're just off the charts, man, off the chain, right?

[UNKNOWN]: And we have one of our kennel texts has this little dog and this little kennel in the main room. [UNKNOWN]: And every dog goes over messes with this poor little dog. [UNKNOWN]: She's just laying there, like with the hell another one. [UNKNOWN]: And so first day, hour one day one, I put the color on them, and our whole tone is start walking the other direction.

[UNKNOWN]: Now, that dog might double down on me. [UNKNOWN]: And if I have a problem on them, maybe I'm starting to do some problem color pressure, I can pop the problem or whatever. [UNKNOWN]: I will actually, as I'm turning, now they've been there one hour. [UNKNOWN]: I'm holding tone. [UNKNOWN]: They're not coming, they're barking at that whatever.

[UNKNOWN]: I can get on steam and they've never felt steam before. [UNKNOWN]: And they're like, what the heck is that? [UNKNOWN]: And it gets some moving back on tone. [UNKNOWN]: And then I move. [UNKNOWN]: And within that hour, I'll have a dog because I turn it off when it gets to me, kind of marking that behavior or that position.

[UNKNOWN]: Within that hour, I can send a video to that owner before they even get home. [UNKNOWN]: And that talks pretty loose walking next to him. [UNKNOWN]: Not in the heel, but loose, I turn he turns. [UNKNOWN]: So I'll get him to focus on something. [UNKNOWN]: I move you move, we call it the ludicrous move.

[UNKNOWN]: I move you move, he's part of his song. [UNKNOWN]: So I want him to keep kind of an eye on me. [UNKNOWN]: And when I turn to pivot, you're going to go. [UNKNOWN]: You're going to take, and if you don't beep all the way to you get to me, it's freaking crazy how well it works. [UNKNOWN]: Do crazy.

[UNKNOWN]: And what I'm finding is when I'm teaching dogs, prawn color pressure, nobody bangs on the end of that prawn. [UNKNOWN]: Because I time it, they get towards the end a little bit of pressure comes on and I can tone and go the other direction. [UNKNOWN]: So I'm doing a little bit of both and on the police dog side.

[UNKNOWN]: When you take a high end dog and they're you're trying to teach in bronchol. [UNKNOWN]: Maybe they don't know it, new teaching in bronchol. [UNKNOWN]: Some of those dogs will flash on that leash or they may even take that and turn back on the guy. [UNKNOWN]: Well, guess what I ain't there.

[UNKNOWN]: I'm at the end. [UNKNOWN]: And I hold all, I show them all, I'm holding the end of the leash, one finger in the loop. [UNKNOWN]: Not this, not right around my hand. [UNKNOWN]: One finger, and I take their police dog and beep, and I talk going, so now on the police dog side when they're doing bite work, we get done that dogs hyper focused on that T-coi, looking looking like all jacked up, and if you even blink loud enough, they're gonna re-bite, hold tone and go, that dog will flatten out and turn out, walk that rock right out with you.

[UNKNOWN]: Not biting the leash, not biting you, it's insane. [UNKNOWN]: And I figured it out kind of by accident. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I started using it and I like said I turned it off when he gets even with me and that little marker that turn it off and sometimes I'll mark with yes or maybe it was a good.

[UNKNOWN]: I get dogs that so like we have a female trainers and then we bring in a 65 75 pound crazy lab on a harness. [UNKNOWN]: Now my trainers don't have their shore getting ripped out. [UNKNOWN]: It's, you can tone them when they come out of the crate and they're trying to mess with the dog next to them.

[UNKNOWN]: Be, and go, it's like you can follow me or you can get corrected, your choice. [UNKNOWN]: And that's not in the book and it's one of my favorite things that I've been doing. [UNKNOWN]: Absolutely favorite. [UNKNOWN]: And then now I'm doing it with the reactive dogs. [UNKNOWN]: So we get dogs that are reactive of beep and start going the other way.

[UNKNOWN]: Or it's almost always the other way, even if I'm going Sam going Eastbound and there's somebody going Westbound, the dog, the reactive dogs are always going Westbound. [UNKNOWN]: beep and start going the other direction and I'm finding dogs are like, I gotta go, gotta go, I gotta go and I'm finding not every dog, some of the hard core ones.

[UNKNOWN]: but most just general fear reactive kind of nervous dogs, they stop reacting, they just follow the trainer, turn and go, turn and follow. [UNKNOWN]: And, um, interesting. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and sometimes I'll pay that, you know, I pay it in some dogs in the beginning. [UNKNOWN]: I call it the power of twos where I correct the first thing, pay the second thing.

[UNKNOWN]: I started doing that with police dogs where I, they're having trouble with their out, I'll have them out and I'll correct it and put them in a down and then pay when they go to the down. [UNKNOWN]: So then the down is what pays them, not the outing. [UNKNOWN]: They have to out to get to the down.

[UNKNOWN]: And so all that conflict in the out where they're vocal and everything else, they're real quiet when they go to the down. [UNKNOWN]: And then they're doing math. [UNKNOWN]: Pay the correct the first thing, pay the second thing. [UNKNOWN]: So I started doing that with some reactive dogs. [UNKNOWN]: Correct the reaction, get them to come to me, pay that.

[UNKNOWN]: And then you'll see the dogs over time start to look, nope, I'm going to look over here. [UNKNOWN]: Nope, I'm going to look over here. [UNKNOWN]: And again, as you know, with reactive dogs, [UNKNOWN]: But I'm finding that tone move is awesome, like really cool. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it is cool.

[UNKNOWN]: It sounds cool. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, there was like a 20 minute answer to one question. [UNKNOWN]: Oh, it's fine. [UNKNOWN]: That's new to me. [UNKNOWN]: So yeah. [UNKNOWN]: But they know the difference, man, with the, so I used to be a leave it guy. [UNKNOWN]: I taught leave it. [UNKNOWN]: And one of the reasons why I started doing tone of voice, I got sick of saying leave it or owners like, oh, men all I do say leave it.

[UNKNOWN]: Leave it. [UNKNOWN]: Leave it. [UNKNOWN]: Leave it. [UNKNOWN]: And I just get sick of saying, I get, and leave it works, right? [UNKNOWN]: But now instead of leaving it, be on the collar. [UNKNOWN]: And then over time, they just stop doing the dumb stuff that you have to say, leave it for all the time, you know?

[UNKNOWN]: And we make it harder every time we bring that dog out for tone of voice, there's more lures. [UNKNOWN]: There's more things, sexy things, you know, food, the peanut butter gets them every time. [UNKNOWN]: It'll get me, so. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Then we find out from the owner what their crutches, tissue paper, a lot for a lot of dogs.

[UNKNOWN]: We're rolling, we're rolling toilet paper rolls out. [UNKNOWN]: We go through so many rolls of toilet paper, you know, and we get the dogs to walk it and leave it in the owner. [UNKNOWN]: So that's what I say. [UNKNOWN]: I fix 95% of the problems. [UNKNOWN]: So if somebody comes to me from lessons, we don't do a ton of lessons, but they come to me for lessons and dog drags and cold retrievers say, drags them into the building.

[UNKNOWN]: and they say the dog jumps, counter-surf steals this, steals that, all the stuff. [UNKNOWN]: Not a reactor or nothing bad, just a dog. [UNKNOWN]: First lesson for me is prom collar and tone avoidance. [UNKNOWN]: The next week when they come back to like, I don't have any complaints, I don't know what to do.

[UNKNOWN]: So then I have to get fancy. [UNKNOWN]: You can do other things. [UNKNOWN]: I start doing the tone follow. [UNKNOWN]: So we end up with those dogs and lessons I end up at lows with them, which is an abnormal thing for a lot of, [UNKNOWN]: Lesson dogs. [UNKNOWN]: But most of those dogs are fixed that first lesson.

[UNKNOWN]: You know, you know, with a prank caller, I can teach a dog a pretty good loopholes, healing about two minutes. [UNKNOWN]: And then now with that tone follow, it all comes together. [UNKNOWN]: It's crazy how well it works. [UNKNOWN]: Do you ever get any pushback from clients about the E collar?

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I just don't take them. [UNKNOWN]: That's clients. [UNKNOWN]: They have no say. [UNKNOWN]: They're my opinion. [UNKNOWN]: And there's dogs, you know, that like I'll be honest with you guys, I don't, I don't know that you're dog, I mean, we're e-colour trainers, right? [UNKNOWN]: I'm like, yeah, I don't know, man, I'm not sure your dog needs it, you know?

[UNKNOWN]: You know, some people, I still am convinced some people book board and trains because they're going out town. [UNKNOWN]: For sure, you know, and they just want, they just want that, but we still do the e-colour for everybody. [UNKNOWN]: The ones that get me though is like, we'll do e-colour, we train, we have a great time, we show them everything's awesome.

[UNKNOWN]: and then they come back in for boarding or they come back in for something and they have on a harness, no collar. [UNKNOWN]: We don't, we don't, we don't. [UNKNOWN]: Nah, I'm not gonna use that. [UNKNOWN]: We've had people take the collars off of them in the lobby and when they leave, take it off and we're like, well, we'll see them again.

[UNKNOWN]: I mean, I don't get it, especially when we show you and find you how it well it works. [UNKNOWN]: But if they're like, yeah, I just don't want the collar. [UNKNOWN]: Okay, here's the trainer I know that doesn't use the collar. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that makes sense. [UNKNOWN]: It's just your thing.

[UNKNOWN]: And if they don't agree with it, then kick rocks, I guess. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, like we just did a dog. [UNKNOWN]: We're doing, maybe still there. [UNKNOWN]: It's nine months old, 10 months old, and it's three and a half pounds, 3.8 pounds. [UNKNOWN]: Big dog. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, we're not doing we're not doing the color on that dog.

[UNKNOWN]: Right. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, did they make a you color that's no, but I mean You can put one on it, but it'll tip over like like Flintstones when they yeah the car stuff. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, right. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, so No, where we're just we're not with that and you know with little dogs like they just snatch them [UNKNOWN]: A little air jail on a little dog area because the people are going to carry him.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah. [UNKNOWN]: I carry him. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: How do you not? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: You know, it's cool a little tiny little dog walking the hill next to you. [UNKNOWN]: It looks good. [UNKNOWN]: It's fun. [UNKNOWN]: It's cool. [UNKNOWN]: But most people are just going to carry those dogs.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, which is why it creates a lot of dog owners anyway. [UNKNOWN]: That's all they do is they carry the day. [UNKNOWN]: Oh, yeah. [UNKNOWN]: That's why it creates like a mont, like so quickly. [UNKNOWN]: I would tell people like the little dogs get such a bad rap, but it's only because of how they're treated, you know, for sure.

[UNKNOWN]: It's like the monsters, like immediate, and I feel awful. [UNKNOWN]: Not a hand bite, a little suckers. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, resource guarding hand biting, you know, to I was like one of the top bites and the breeds in the country, like every year. [UNKNOWN]: and it's probably mostly because of how they're treated.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: The police canine stuff. [UNKNOWN]: I find it fascinating how most people, and including myself, I mean, I worked around police canines, I've, you know, bent to seminars, I've friends with them, but there's like this thing that a lot of general public just think inherently that if there is a police canine, they're aggressive and they're mean.

[UNKNOWN]: Do you tip, would you say that inherently a police canine is aggressive? [UNKNOWN]: No, it's the same amount of percentages as really truly aggressive dogs that we see. [UNKNOWN]: So I tell everybody, listen, if I do 100 aggression cases in a year, one, maybe two are actually, right, really aggressive.

[UNKNOWN]: Maybe you might see a little bit more because people come to use specifically for that. [UNKNOWN]: But it's mostly fear, which I don't discount, you know, because I think most bites are probably fear-based bites. [UNKNOWN]: But in police talks, it's the same way I said, I know you guys think your dog's is super aggressive, crazy dog.

[UNKNOWN]: He might be crazy. [UNKNOWN]: You may have done some things in manic behavior, not, you know, he's got too much room to move, and the things like that, I said, basically probably not actually truly aggressive. [UNKNOWN]: The difference though is that we teach them to bite human beings. [UNKNOWN]: And you can't act surprised when they do that.

[UNKNOWN]: and it might just be out of straight-up prey drive and it might whatever prey drive does not make a dog aggressive, right? [UNKNOWN]: Just make some prey driven, you know, prey monsters. [UNKNOWN]: And so truly, for end, listen, the truly forward aggressive police dogs are a mental problem just like the pet dogs.

[UNKNOWN]: They're hard to deal with. [UNKNOWN]: What is your definition between the difference between a reactive dog and aggressive dog? [UNKNOWN]: So for me, one of the great way that I look at it [UNKNOWN]: because I wasn't using the vibrate, right? [UNKNOWN]: At least the way I probably should have.

[UNKNOWN]: So if somebody comes to my facility for me to evaluate their dog, oh my dog's aggressive and he got a bit my brother and also the stuff and they bring the dog in the dog's park and they meet the end of the leash, probably, probably. [UNKNOWN]: I put an e-color on the dog and I use the vibrate.

[UNKNOWN]: I find if that dog goes and hides behind the owner or stops, what they're doing, hides behind the owner maybe, that have a pretty good idea that's a fear reactive dog. [UNKNOWN]: If that dog doubles down on me and stays out front and will forward aggressive, chase me down the road, bite whatever, I find that to be a little bit.

[UNKNOWN]: actual true aggression because I asked the owner I go let me ask you this if your dog got out and there was a dog Across the street down the road would he and he's never met the dog before not like one of those neighbor things Are they hate each other but would he run down that street down there and attack that dog like truly or a guy or a person would they run after that guy down the street and bite him and Most of them say no [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I think that's a problem too, is a lot of people pet owners will actually think that.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, is it the, when you put it that way, they're like, [UNKNOWN]: actually I don't know. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you know, I don't know. [UNKNOWN]: And then the odd one is that is the dog who is so overly excited and frustrated by being held back that it looks like aggression, you know, that I find that one to be harder for people to diagnose.

[UNKNOWN]: Yep. [UNKNOWN]: Yep. [UNKNOWN]: You know, is it is my dog afraid and preemptively striking or is he just wants just I'm boiling over because I want to go. [UNKNOWN]: you know, out of frustration. [UNKNOWN]: And I find that one to be hard to do to diagnose. [UNKNOWN]: But I think the fear and the forward aggression.

[UNKNOWN]: And as you know, when you're talking to the owner, you're getting their story. [UNKNOWN]: And the long way you're talking to me get a little bit, oh yeah, well, there was another guy and he has one bite, before the conversation over, he had five. [UNKNOWN]: You know, I mean, yeah, and what was it?

[UNKNOWN]: Did he bite and run away? [UNKNOWN]: Did he bite and keep coming? [UNKNOWN]: Right. [UNKNOWN]: You know? [UNKNOWN]: Oh, yeah, there's a difference. [UNKNOWN]: So, how would you tell people who generally don't understand police dogs? [UNKNOWN]: Why do they? [UNKNOWN]: Why do if we could say that police dogs aren't inherently aggressive, then why do police dogs bite people?

[UNKNOWN]: And then maybe pet dogs don't. [UNKNOWN]: Just genetics. [UNKNOWN]: I believe there. [UNKNOWN]: You know, we were talking [UNKNOWN]: in Europe where most of the dogs come from for police work, it is in family industries for a couple hundred years where like the guy in Germany who was my event, my German vendor, he traveled the Eastern Europe or all of Europe to find dogs and he found them at farms.

[UNKNOWN]: This guy's third generation [UNKNOWN]: working line German Shepherd breeder right and he just finds them in Europe at these farm but this guy knows my guy knows to go to class or or or Antoine in Italy because he has you know he raises Dutch shepherds you know doing anything with him he just raises him and sells him but genetically they are [UNKNOWN]: they've been, they're coming from years and years sport, mostly, you know, but they're just, it's just their breed, but, you know, you probably like me, we train more German chepherds than any breed of any dog we train.

[UNKNOWN]: And they can't, they wouldn't do it, right? [UNKNOWN]: It's not in them to do it. [UNKNOWN]: You know, I'm sure you're kind of the same over here, but in Ohio, the Amish have destroyed the German Shepherd, absolutely destroyed them. [UNKNOWN]: And now [UNKNOWN]: you see that in the like Pennsylvania for sure yeah and it's sad because you know we we have to joke about it now because we're like you see it you can just tell an homage to a guy look especially a German Shepherd because you can just tell how weak they are and how frail they are and they just don't look like a German Shepherd is supposed to look you know and let's say let me guess afraid with afraid of men with the arts and hats you know it's like we

[UNKNOWN]: and it sucks. [UNKNOWN]: $500 puppy that's a pretty good done. [UNKNOWN]: And you see any because you see the average dog owner, the pet owner, right, they're on Facebook or whatever. [UNKNOWN]: And they see German Shepherd, 500 bucks. [UNKNOWN]: And it looks like a German Shepherd, you know, but once you get them, you realize the agent, let me ask you this.

[UNKNOWN]: Why do you think the germ, why do you think omish are getting their hands into breeding so much? [UNKNOWN]: Just money. [UNKNOWN]: That's it. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: I've talked to some of them. [UNKNOWN]: Money. [UNKNOWN]: Okay. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, something like dogs, some of them like dogs, but you've got to get a remember and where I'm at in Ohio, not where I worked, but where I live, is there's a lot of I'mish and then I'mish adjacent, so like there's other, um, [UNKNOWN]: like counties near us, there are a lot of omnisch.

[UNKNOWN]: And I rented my canine facility or my, excuse me, my kennel, and I have my police kennel going, I rented it from an omnisch guy. [UNKNOWN]: And I talked to him a lot. [UNKNOWN]: I really liked him. [UNKNOWN]: He was a more of a horse trader guy. [UNKNOWN]: You know, horse seller and bullseem, and he would talk about bullseem, and I'm like, I don't need to know all this stuff about bullseem, but everything is a commodity to them.

[UNKNOWN]: The animal is not viewed as like, [UNKNOWN]: that animals that they're straight up commodity. [UNKNOWN]: So if you've you've you've probably seen this too is they get a breeding bitch of whatever breed. [UNKNOWN]: That female never sees the outside. [UNKNOWN]: She lives in a barn and they just breed her and breed her and breed her and breed her and breed her and then they give her away.

[UNKNOWN]: And we'll get those and we'll train them and they are [UNKNOWN]: the sweetest dogs in the world, however they've never seen the sun, they've never been outside, they're afraid of everything. [UNKNOWN]: They're five years old and chicken little, right? [UNKNOWN]: They've never seen anything and they're always soap but it's so sad they're just just gutted and they never live long.

[UNKNOWN]: They don't care, onto the next one. [UNKNOWN]: And then they breed back in all the time. [UNKNOWN]: You know, they breed the sons back, and that's where their deficiencies come from. [UNKNOWN]: But now they're in doodles, and they're in cattle dogs. [UNKNOWN]: Oh, shit. [UNKNOWN]: Eek time in cattle dogs, so their cattle either cattle dogs are super aggressive.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, because, I mean, the baseline for cattle dogs is to be pretty fierce and gritty and intense. [UNKNOWN]: So if you get like bad genetics or nervey, nervey genetics into that, it's a serious issue. [UNKNOWN]: And it sucks too, because family pets, you know, families are families who, I think a lot of times are, you know, maybe can't afford the, you know, 2500 DDR line then, you know, whatever has been breeding for 50 years in their backyard with kids and whatever they, [UNKNOWN]: See a $500 German Shepherd on Facebook and then yeah, yeah, how do you look just go look at the puppies?

[UNKNOWN]: It's the biggest sucker deal in the mood right go look at put like guys I'll say well my wife want to go look at puppies like oh, there's no such thing [UNKNOWN]: you're buying a puppy yeah what you feel like a monster when you leave with and they're yippin' and looking at one of them staring at you yeah it's almost like they taught him a guy show your eyes look yeah yeah the cartoon at the dog pound yeah shape up yeah yeah what would you be what would your advice be for people going to look for puppies working line or pet line what's your advice when picking out a puppy for your family for your job well um the void the omnisch i tell everybody there's so the new thing in the omnisch

[UNKNOWN]: Um, well, I got him down in Miller'sburg, but he's not on my stomach. [UNKNOWN]: Really? [UNKNOWN]: What's his last name? [UNKNOWN]: Well, Yoda, I'm like, stop, stop. [UNKNOWN]: But anyways, um, there's a lot of red flags like not seeing the parents. [UNKNOWN]: You know, um, I don't know what the average person should look for when I mean, I know what I would look for in the parents, but if I, if I would like to see when I walk in there, what does the mother do?

[UNKNOWN]: Is she growls and are shitty at the humans when they come in that puppies are going to be that way right if she's super neutral or whatever I'm like okay puppies will pick a pick that up and and you know that little things like there get imprinted on that dog early and [UNKNOWN]: you get what you pay for.

[UNKNOWN]: So let's say and try to save up two grand a lot of people can't do that. [UNKNOWN]: But a $400 puppy, you might get, you have to get lucky for it to be okay. [UNKNOWN]: Especially pure bread. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Because I've picked up some rescue dogs supermots and they've been the best, right?

[UNKNOWN]: The best. [UNKNOWN]: For free. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: You know you pay 50 bucks for maybe their shots and whatever. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, whatever. [UNKNOWN]: Um, and that's the thing like, uh, so you just, you got to, you got to see and then listen to the person talk, you know, is that, are they?

[UNKNOWN]: How much health testing are they doing? [UNKNOWN]: You know, are they really serious about it? [UNKNOWN]: And, you know, or they're just like, yeah, I sell 700 a year. [UNKNOWN]: I'm like, [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I don't know about that kid. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, what about, is it a red flag to you if a breeder says you can't meet the parents?

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it is, I get it if you're like, listen, I don't want you in my house because I've had weirdos come here. [UNKNOWN]: I kind of get that. [UNKNOWN]: But they shouldn't be afraid to show you. [UNKNOWN]: Like, yeah, you know what, I just don't, I just don't like it, you know, I don't like whatever, take my word for it, you know.

[UNKNOWN]: I find on breeders, you can do research like this. [UNKNOWN]: Now you can just start Googling and chat GPT and breeders and start looking at what you see and take reviews, with a grain of salt, some people are just for whatever reason are reviewed suckers, man. [UNKNOWN]: They, you know, reviews are cool.

[UNKNOWN]: But, um, [UNKNOWN]: Look, look, do they have a website? [UNKNOWN]: What does a website look like? [UNKNOWN]: You know, that type of thing. [UNKNOWN]: Like if you're gonna pay for full-bread dog, do your research, right? [UNKNOWN]: Don't just go off of so and so. [UNKNOWN]: You know, so and so told me.

[UNKNOWN]: Well, I mean, okay, there's a start. [UNKNOWN]: I've got a great dog. [UNKNOWN]: I know from from this person. [UNKNOWN]: Right. [UNKNOWN]: So I do think it's a bit of a red flag, but for me, I would have to see that in person and like, [UNKNOWN]: I'm different than a lot of people in public like you, we become human psychologists in this business.

[UNKNOWN]: And I get a pretty good read on people. [UNKNOWN]: You know, and I just watch him from being a cop forever. [UNKNOWN]: Sure. [UNKNOWN]: You know, you get it. [UNKNOWN]: You just get a read on people. [UNKNOWN]: And I start looking at why, why don't they want me to see it? [UNKNOWN]: Maybe they're a hoarder.

[UNKNOWN]: Maybe that's their problem. [UNKNOWN]: Maybe they get some, their house is messy, or maybe the mother died, or the father is a psychopath. [UNKNOWN]: You know, [UNKNOWN]: And there's like a lose lose sometimes that I find too where friends, family, stories, clients, they'll say, well, I went in to get this puppy or look at this puppy, whatever.

[UNKNOWN]: And this situation is so bad. [UNKNOWN]: And they feel awful. [UNKNOWN]: I can't leave this dog and I can't leave it's brother. [UNKNOWN]: So now you get a lose lose. [UNKNOWN]: You go into a situation and you realize how awful this breeder is. [UNKNOWN]: How awful the situation is for the puppies, [UNKNOWN]: And hell, your puppies in your temperament probably aren't top on your priority list or their health.

[UNKNOWN]: And since I see that a lot of times too, it's a loose loose. [UNKNOWN]: You go in and you immediately go hell now, but then you feel bad. [UNKNOWN]: So now you end up getting either a dog or two because you feel bad. [UNKNOWN]: And now you know that you got a dog that it's a crap shoot. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, in general, [UNKNOWN]: It's a crap shoot, right?

[UNKNOWN]: You just don't know. [UNKNOWN]: I've paid good money for I had a A scene Bernard that I paid twenty I spent every it's kind of started my whole career, so I'm not complaining But I spated every money. [UNKNOWN]: I had when I was a fry chef at Applebees $2,500 in That dog died of cardiac arrest before he was seven months old and [UNKNOWN]: Purebred should have been breathing new fees and so you just never you never really know You can only look at the stats and go this a pretty good chance this dog is gonna end up like this because I have good lineage and all that stuff and don't buy glitter mates What are we doing stop [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's a thing, isn't it?

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I'm dealing with it right now. [UNKNOWN]: I have these clients. [UNKNOWN]: I like them. [UNKNOWN]: They moved here from California. [UNKNOWN]: They got two shepherds from this person who's a, reads a lot of shepherds. [UNKNOWN]: And got littermates, got talking to get littermates. [UNKNOWN]: And the one of them is cannot function, cannot function without touching that other one.

[UNKNOWN]: Like, they're a year old, like it's bad. [UNKNOWN]: Why do you why do you think getting litter mates is typically a bad idea for pet owners like why do you think it's as trainers we see it we go oh god, but what's your opinion on that so I tell everybody I go this so what happens is with the litter mates in and it obviously it's not a hundred percent some some dogs are fine.

[UNKNOWN]: I okay you remember you you don't have the dogs you have phyto and Fred. [UNKNOWN]: You have two separate dogs you have to kind of look at them as two separate dogs. [UNKNOWN]: But what happens with the littermates, especially if they've just been living in the Walping Box for ever and they touch and they're constantly glumming all of like these two dogs lick each other everywhere and nonstop.

[UNKNOWN]: You have to pry them apart. [UNKNOWN]: What happens with the littermate stuff is you can get to a situation where it's them against us. [UNKNOWN]: And so you end up with Lord of the flies at your house, right? [UNKNOWN]: I tell you, if you're not careful, you'll be the little oputions and they'll tie your [UNKNOWN]: because they don't need you.

[UNKNOWN]: Always remember, this is a line that I use for everybody. [UNKNOWN]: You need to be the way the truth in the life for that dog. [UNKNOWN]: His pathways through salvation is true you and you only. [UNKNOWN]: Not his other dog. [UNKNOWN]: Yes, no black white always never leading him down that path.

[UNKNOWN]: I am it without me, you will die. [UNKNOWN]: But the littermates believe without each other, they'll die. [UNKNOWN]: and they don't need you as much, even though they do. [UNKNOWN]: You become food man or food lady, because they get all of every social satisfaction, anything else they get off of touching that other dog.

[UNKNOWN]: And I think littermate shepherds are the worst. [UNKNOWN]: The worst of all the littermate breeds I've seen. [UNKNOWN]: Bye. [UNKNOWN]: I don't know. [UNKNOWN]: No, it's just shit. [UNKNOWN]: It's just all the stuff. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: We had this lady in Columbus, Ohio. [UNKNOWN]: I was told she had like 50 shepherds at her house at all time.

[UNKNOWN]: And this was like 2019. [UNKNOWN]: The trainer of mine went and got two dogs from her. [UNKNOWN]: Just to just to try them. [UNKNOWN]: No commitment or anything. [UNKNOWN]: The lady needed help. [UNKNOWN]: I need to get some of these dogs trained so that I can sell them. [UNKNOWN]: And these two dogs were so bad.

[UNKNOWN]: Glamming on to each other. [UNKNOWN]: So bed that the one I thought probably should have been euthanized. [UNKNOWN]: physically exist without touching the other dog. [UNKNOWN]: Like I'm talking, we just put them at the length of this table, the screaming and the pooping and just lost it until they touch each other again.

[UNKNOWN]: Like it's very weird. [UNKNOWN]: It's like a core dependency on the tenth level. [UNKNOWN]: That's sad. [UNKNOWN]: Really. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: It's what it is. [UNKNOWN]: It's terrible to see. [UNKNOWN]: They can't. [UNKNOWN]: They can't. [UNKNOWN]: They can't mentally do it. [UNKNOWN]: So these two shepherds are working with now.

[UNKNOWN]: Like the trainings. [UNKNOWN]: It's okay. [UNKNOWN]: We're just doing lessons with them. [UNKNOWN]: The train is okay. [UNKNOWN]: It's going good. [UNKNOWN]: Tom's working real well with them and everything like that. [UNKNOWN]: But I put one in the candle and I have working the other one in the one dog barks.

[UNKNOWN]: He's just losing his shit. [UNKNOWN]: And then when I bring them, I separate them. [UNKNOWN]: I bring them back in. [UNKNOWN]: Um, he's engaged with the training, but always looking and looking and looking and then any downtime, and he's just losing it. [UNKNOWN]: And now, um, so then I end up with him both in the same room, and I'm trying to work place on one one and place on the other, the one dog, he's not bad, he's doing better.

[UNKNOWN]: But the one is he can barely survive being 15 feet away. [UNKNOWN]: What would be your advice for dog owners who have two dogs in the trying to train them? [UNKNOWN]: Get rid of one of them. [UNKNOWN]: No, my thing is... [UNKNOWN]: Treat him as separates, train him separately, kind of bring him together.

[UNKNOWN]: They don't need to touch each other, use leashes in your house. [UNKNOWN]: But one with your wife, one with you, let him just teach him, it's okay. [UNKNOWN]: Like, okay, but then also make sure you are the important one. [UNKNOWN]: It's always, I say it's humans up here, dogs down here. [UNKNOWN]: I don't like a hierarchy amongst the dogs in the house.

[UNKNOWN]: I want everybody to be even. [UNKNOWN]: It's like, if you have a favorite kid, [UNKNOWN]: You know, I do, I don't mind when dogs kind of correct each other a little bit here and there, some dog stuff like that, but I don't want one dominating another one, you know, trying to steal all the stuff we've talked about that before.

[UNKNOWN]: But, um, so if they have two dogs, and if you're going to pay a trainer to do it, I like one at a time. [UNKNOWN]: do one, do the go home, take that dog, work on him, give me your other one. [UNKNOWN]: I'll work on that. [UNKNOWN]: Now, this one you have already got kind of a foundation two, three weeks.

[UNKNOWN]: Come back and try that. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Um, and then, uh, and then good luck, you know, yeah. [UNKNOWN]: And if you have kids and you're busy, you're in trouble. [UNKNOWN]: You ever been shot before? [UNKNOWN]: Been shot at, not, not hit. [UNKNOWN]: What's that like as a human being going into a scenario that you signed up for what's it like when other human beings are flinging led at you so I'll give you a give you a background So I can hire to 96 and 19 in the summer of 99 in August I got a call for robbery and progress.

[UNKNOWN]: I was right down the street to show up The guy comes out of the bar. [UNKNOWN]: He's robbing a bar. [UNKNOWN]: He's got the money bag in a gun. [UNKNOWN]: I end up killing him [UNKNOWN]: four months later, five months later. [UNKNOWN]: We're, uh, me and three other guys, uh, we're, we parked on the street.

[UNKNOWN]: We're gonna go jump these gang bangers on a corner. [UNKNOWN]: And on the way through these backyards, we see a guy walking. [UNKNOWN]: He's walking. [UNKNOWN]: He sees us and does the double take in walks away. [UNKNOWN]: And one of the dudes goes over, because, hey, hey, where are you going?

[UNKNOWN]: And the guy takes a gun out and he fires it over his head. [UNKNOWN]: As he's walking, he's running away. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, he shoots at us. [UNKNOWN]: So I paralleled him and when he hits the next street, he turns an open's fire on me and another guy. [UNKNOWN]: And I don't, but the thing is, you can't see, like you don't see bullets.

[UNKNOWN]: But I saw the, and I'm like, holy crap, but then we had to keep chasing him, right? [UNKNOWN]: And we're chasing him all over the place. [UNKNOWN]: And I had a shotgun with me. [UNKNOWN]: And he come running out of a yard. [UNKNOWN]: And I'm listening on the radio, I'm like, look, I'm gonna post up.

[UNKNOWN]: where I think he's gonna come out. [UNKNOWN]: Well sure, it's enough. [UNKNOWN]: He comes out down the chart on the sidewalk and he looks at me. [UNKNOWN]: He stops. [UNKNOWN]: I haven't met Shaka and he's got his hands up. [UNKNOWN]: He's got, it's winter. [UNKNOWN]: So he's got a, like a long leather coat.

[UNKNOWN]: And he ticks off running, burries his hands. [UNKNOWN]: I come up with a Shaka and I'm gonna shoot him. [UNKNOWN]: As soon as I come up, a rookie runs right in front of me. [UNKNOWN]: Right in front of the Shaka and I'm like, oh, finger on the trigger close, right? [UNKNOWN]: We catch the kid.

[UNKNOWN]: He's a cousin to the guy I had killed earlier in the, [UNKNOWN]: And I was like, oh man, they would accuse me of murdering his whole family if that would happen. [UNKNOWN]: So the such an adrenaline rush and it was about a block away when he was shooting at me. [UNKNOWN]: One of the other guys claimed he thought he heard the round go by, I didn't hear any of that.

[UNKNOWN]: And then a few years later, that was 1999 and 2012, I shot and killed another [UNKNOWN]: we were doing a drug raid and I was on the perimeter and he shot at us as they were coming in the building. [UNKNOWN]: And you're just, so it's like you're just in the moment and dealing with it, you know.

[UNKNOWN]: Again, I never got hit. [UNKNOWN]: And what guy that I got hired with in 1960 got murdered, we only had a couple years on the job. [UNKNOWN]: The guys that were there on that call said it was, you're like, what the hell, what was that? [UNKNOWN]: I know guys that have been hit and they're, or shot and they fell down, thought they were hit and they're not, you know, um, my first that first shooting I was telling about 99, the guy came out and I moved and fired and slipped and gravel.

[UNKNOWN]: So I fired the first round and then was on my back looking up at this guy. [UNKNOWN]: But I got, look, I hit him in the chest and it's severed as a order. [UNKNOWN]: So he didn't get back up. [UNKNOWN]: Otherwise he could have just come over and killed me. [UNKNOWN]: So yeah, it was a pretty wild career.

[UNKNOWN]: I had other couple of other. [UNKNOWN]: I got into a fight with a naked dude and we got down with a fight as he died. [UNKNOWN]: Like his heart exploded. [UNKNOWN]: He was 180 degrees. [UNKNOWN]: And got sued for 20 million on that. [UNKNOWN]: The charge me is murder on that case. [UNKNOWN]: Which I beat all that.

[UNKNOWN]: I mean, I didn't, he called excited to Larry him [UNKNOWN]: He had drugs. [UNKNOWN]: No, that was the problem. [UNKNOWN]: He was schizophrenic, not on his meds. [UNKNOWN]: He had a little bit of THC and a little bit alcohol in his system. [UNKNOWN]: But usually that thing was caused by cocaine back in the day.

[UNKNOWN]: It was called cocaine psychosis, and then they renamed it, excited delirium, and it's called something else now. [UNKNOWN]: But when you get to those guys and they're naked and they're sweating, they're covered in blood and water and everything like that, they're walking dead. [UNKNOWN]: And I know that we never heard of it.

[UNKNOWN]: What goes through your mind when you take somebody's life? [UNKNOWN]: It's one of those things like you can get, I've talked to other guys about it too and they're pissed at that guy. [UNKNOWN]: Like why'd you put me through this? [UNKNOWN]: Like I got lucky, I never had a suicide by cop, [UNKNOWN]: when a person does that knowing, knowing that that's what they wanted.

[UNKNOWN]: And you have no choice though. [UNKNOWN]: That's like you can say, well, I'm not gonna fall for it. [UNKNOWN]: Well, you may have no choice. [UNKNOWN]: And that's a whole mental state on people, knowing it's either gonna die, or it's gonna hurt really, really bad, you know? [UNKNOWN]: And so I was prepared mentally that if it happened, and hopefully it never did, you know, after the first shooting, I was good.

[UNKNOWN]: Because I knew I was right. [UNKNOWN]: Right. [UNKNOWN]: I just, you know, I talked to people and I knew I was no question, you know, I didn't have to worry about it. [UNKNOWN]: Like so I was good with my decision. [UNKNOWN]: I had made the decision that it was a possibility. [UNKNOWN]: And then you pray to God, like I hope it doesn't ever happen again.

[UNKNOWN]: And if you're like me, a crap magnet, it happened again and again. [UNKNOWN]: And you know, it just. [UNKNOWN]: I was just find it so fascinating that there's humans on earth that sign up to show up to the most violent sad chaotic like it's so rewarding for police officers but at the same time I just when you see cops go by or even if you see like the other night I landed in Albany we were I was [UNKNOWN]: I don't know.

[UNKNOWN]: We're coming from somewhere and we was late mad the kids. [UNKNOWN]: It's like 11 30 at night. [UNKNOWN]: We're we. [UNKNOWN]: Oh, Florida. [UNKNOWN]: We're coming from Florida. [UNKNOWN]: And this guy just started screaming like this would never happen in California. [UNKNOWN]: Because the bags weren't there fast enough.

[UNKNOWN]: It's 11 30 at night. [UNKNOWN]: Everybody's tired. [UNKNOWN]: It's. [UNKNOWN]: You know, hooting the bad guys. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, right in that it that there's one of them for three flights that just landed from whatever anyway He starts yelling and screaming and you know There's no you know, and he was probably drunk either that or crazy like nobody does that sober or saying He's yelling this would never happen in California and people are kind of like you can see there is a couple guys and they're it's just [UNKNOWN]: I'm so fascinated by human behavior and social interactions, I'm like, okay, this is interesting, right?

[UNKNOWN]: And I'm kind of keeping tabs on this really weird behavior, right? [UNKNOWN]: And I'm like, you know, and a couple of the guys, I think just instinctually, you know, we're like, and if my kids were far enough way where I didn't, you know, I wasn't worried or anything, but it was just interesting [UNKNOWN]: this would never happen.

[UNKNOWN]: There's nobody saying anything. [UNKNOWN]: He's screaming. [UNKNOWN]: And there's probably 50, 60 people plus just kind of pouring in from the flight screaming and unlike cheese. [UNKNOWN]: And it's that late at night. [UNKNOWN]: And usually, um, Albany has officers like very present during the day.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, or it's busy, like very present. [UNKNOWN]: I see him every time I go in, you know, and there was nobody and so. [UNKNOWN]: He started swearing then profanities. [UNKNOWN]: He started like f this and this is bullshit and all this stuff Then couple the dad stepped up for kids that were, you know, older than mine and they're like, hey, there's kids here calm down, you know, and he's It's just crazy and I'm thinking I'm like, so then the security card comes running down You know, he comes running down and he's probably sleeping upstairs and one of the concourse.

[UNKNOWN]: There's something [UNKNOWN]: And I just think about, like, man, it's crazy that you guys get called, no, you don't need more, but it's like, your job is to get called to chaos. [UNKNOWN]: And I say this to a couple officers and I had Chris Jones on the podcast, actually. [UNKNOWN]: So you know, it's, it's, it's some of that for sure, but he's like, it's, it's mostly just like, you know, paperwork and, and, you know, traffic stuff, but [UNKNOWN]: When you have a canine, like when you have a dog how much how much does that play a role when you're trying to do your job when you're doing a traffic stop, or you're entering a home or a building.

[UNKNOWN]: Being a human and a dog lover and somebody who's trained a dog and worked with a dog and, you know, lives with a dog if you will. [UNKNOWN]: And you send it in, or is it just like now where this is it? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, if it's, if it's called that I know for a fact, guys got a gun, it's arm guy.

[UNKNOWN]: I know for a fact, most, most guys won't send the dog there. [UNKNOWN]: If I always tell everybody, if your dog gets shot and killed, like in a search, it should have been a surprise. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, there's always the possibility that guys got a gun, always. [UNKNOWN]: And people will say, I think I have to get a gun, I think or whatever, it's the ones where the guy we know he has again, because he shot at something or he said, you come in and I'm going to kill you, type to you.

[UNKNOWN]: So like the nice thing is almost every police department's policies give the handler, the handler can say no or the handler, the supervisor cannot tell the handler that he must use his dog. [UNKNOWN]: He can tell that you can't. [UNKNOWN]: He can say, now this isn't a dog called don't use your dog on this.

[UNKNOWN]: So most of the handlers don't, and I always tell the guys too, don't get killed with your leash in your hand. [UNKNOWN]: Like if this is a dog call and it turns into a gun call, sorry brother. [UNKNOWN]: I gotta let go of the leash, I gotta get to work. [UNKNOWN]: You gotta think in the second, if you're worried about that, but if I get to a house and it's a burglary and progress, and I think the guys in there, there's no hesitancy.

[UNKNOWN]: Good luck to the dude in there. [UNKNOWN]: I gave you warning, he had your chance, here comes an apex predator, right? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: And then it's awesome, actually, that part is a freaking awesome. [UNKNOWN]: How much has it changed? [UNKNOWN]: Because I know Chris was telling me that there's so much technology now with drones and infrared and all this stuff.

[UNKNOWN]: Like how much has it changed from when you were on the department versus now with police dogs? [UNKNOWN]: Oh, significant. [UNKNOWN]: The drones are obviously weren't a thing. [UNKNOWN]: So now you go to these places where, um, so like I was out in LA, [UNKNOWN]: LAPD has the most restrictive policy when it comes to candidates in the, in the, maybe the world, if not the United States, for sure.

[UNKNOWN]: They still had five bites while I was there. [UNKNOWN]: They, oh wow, like life, like life. [UNKNOWN]: Oh yeah, getting called away from training to go to do a thing, because when it comes for them by the time they're gonna get to the, the dog thing, they've done the drone, they've done this, they've done that, they've crossed their teas and dotted their eyes, right?

[UNKNOWN]: And they know. [UNKNOWN]: So now the thing is with drones, [UNKNOWN]: you're getting an ally get you're getting in there and you're like well there is he's he's hiding behind the bed he has a gun oh so no that's not a dark calling anymore that's a gun call right that's a guy's with guns call and so like when I was on California the the Riverside County Sheriff's Office good dudes man like hard chargers they all have drones the handlers because it's on them [UNKNOWN]: to bite or not to bite, policy, legal, and everything else.

[UNKNOWN]: So they make, they fly that drone in there and they go, yeah, I'm not comfortable here. [UNKNOWN]: I'm not comfortable. [UNKNOWN]: I can't see what he's doing, blah, blah, blah, blah, or now that guy's, he's ripe, you know, and then he send the dog in on it. [UNKNOWN]: So that part has changed, perception and attitude has changed.

[UNKNOWN]: George Floyd changed a lot, 2020 changed a lot. [UNKNOWN]: I think too far in that direction [UNKNOWN]: soft, you know, because like I'll give an example of the city that I worked in Canton, Ohio, it's a pretty crime-infested city. [UNKNOWN]: It's not a lot going on for humans there except for crap.

[UNKNOWN]: And when I got hired in 96, the census, there was like 102, 103,000 people. [UNKNOWN]: There are 66,500 people there now. [UNKNOWN]: Same crime rate, same exact crime rate, same exact crime rate, same amount of people. [UNKNOWN]: So all the good people are gone. [UNKNOWN]: So it's just the drugs that are left.

[UNKNOWN]: So you can want us to be softer and gentler and everything. [UNKNOWN]: the criminals have a say in a pretty large say in it. [UNKNOWN]: So I still have to do police work when I need to do police work. [UNKNOWN]: When they can cuff the people like that, it's where I tell guys I don't understand why you're in that job still.

[UNKNOWN]: Now some cities aren't like that, some cities they're rocking their own and doing their thing, right? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, because some cities, even states don't support law enforcement as much as others, right? [UNKNOWN]: That's a thing. [UNKNOWN]: Oh, yeah, for sure. [UNKNOWN]: When I was talking to Chris, he was saying, like, money is such a big thing.

[UNKNOWN]: Like, you know, I was like, do all dogs have vests. [UNKNOWN]: He's like, no, I mean, we, we'd like them, you know, a lot of them do, but a lot of them don't. [UNKNOWN]: And I'm like, why is like, we just, the money, like, the state doesn't give us the money, the funds. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: I tell everybody there's no such thing as a SWAT car wash or SWAT T-shirt sale.

[UNKNOWN]: K9's guys end up paying for all their own crap. [UNKNOWN]: So it's basically like an agency will be like, well, we don't have the money for K9. [UNKNOWN]: You're lying, you they all have the money. [UNKNOWN]: It's just a it's just what you want and I always ask them I go, so do you have a SWAT team?

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, then you have money for a canine. [UNKNOWN]: You have your SWAT team have night vision. [UNKNOWN]: Well, yeah, and they never use it and they never get called out canine does 20 calls a night. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, support the workers right. [UNKNOWN]: I'm not saying don't support SWAT, but [UNKNOWN]: making the canine guys.

[UNKNOWN]: So there's like all these 501c3 that that that are training company training groups that raise money to help guys go to training and help guys get equipment because their agencies won't pay for, but there's so our team's got an armored truck. [UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean? [UNKNOWN]: Prioritize, but they don't want to.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: What's your breed of choice? [UNKNOWN]: I'm a mountain wall guy. [UNKNOWN]: When it comes to that, when it comes to the police work stuff, I like mountain walls. [UNKNOWN]: I like Dutchies. [UNKNOWN]: Good German Shepherd, like a really good German Shepherd, a pretty catalachy to train, like they're really easy, they're really nice.

[UNKNOWN]: They're just not as many of them. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, the ones like in this training group I have, there's a lot of shepherd, they're awesome. [UNKNOWN]: He's dogs are kicking, but they are unicorns almost anymore. [UNKNOWN]: So if you get a [UNKNOWN]: great or horrible, right? [UNKNOWN]: And it's pretty easy to tell right away when you're screening a melon one, you're like, well, that talks insane, like not in a good way either.

[UNKNOWN]: But they, I like the reckless abandon, you know, like that's chepards too, but I like the reckless abandon of a melon one. [UNKNOWN]: What's your, what is your different, what's the difference in your opinion working with these dogs between the Dutch Shepherd and the Malinois? [UNKNOWN]: Some, some people believe that the Dutch is a little more a-hole-ish.

[UNKNOWN]: I don't know. [UNKNOWN]: I, Dutch is, and Malinois are the same. [UNKNOWN]: That most Dutches have Malinois in them. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, they call it dutchiex or mountain one. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, if you go look, if you go back through, you know, you'll find, once a while you'll get a dutch and you get his BRN, you go back through his lineage and you'll see all stripey dogs.

[UNKNOWN]: Usually somewhere in there is a yellow dog or, you know, a fawn colored mallon wall that they started breeding that out of. [UNKNOWN]: Real true Dutch shepherds, I think have a little bit wider face, a little bit wider head, their bite pressure sometimes can be a little bit more, you know, if they come out of that, those DDR lines are usually, you know, those any of those are a little bit harder biteers, you know.

[UNKNOWN]: But not always, some you'll can see some Dutch shepherds with that. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you're only two generations removed from a yellow dog. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, my, my Dutchie had a Malenwall sister, so she had a bunch of Dutchies in the Malenwall. [UNKNOWN]: And they had like a blue in there, which I've never seen before, which, and actually, I think that dog is insconnected.

[UNKNOWN]: Are you working with any disconnected dog? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but no blue. [UNKNOWN]: I would see that. [UNKNOWN]: Because I think they, the blues kind of turned gray. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, the blues like anything can be a, you know, it's a recessive gene so they can be not very good. [UNKNOWN]: Right.

[UNKNOWN]: Um, I've had I've seen Malonwall wise. [UNKNOWN]: Um, three or four blues and I had one, he's awesome. [UNKNOWN]: He was awesome. [UNKNOWN]: He ended up being in police dog and Tennessee, but the other one's no good. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: But if you think about average wise, probably without the same.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, because we had, um, yeah, I got mine. [UNKNOWN]: The dad was from like, I think a Logan horse type of fall off like type of thing where it just didn't work out. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: She got that. [UNKNOWN]: And then she had a bitch like Peggy, something or other.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: And she's awesome. [UNKNOWN]: And a lot of her siblings went to police. [UNKNOWN]: Don't mind. [UNKNOWN]: She would have done good at police works. [UNKNOWN]: She's I got so lucky with her. [UNKNOWN]: She's going to be 11 this year. [UNKNOWN]: I think. [UNKNOWN]: I got so lucky with her because she's I got lucky period she is got the work of any working horse you could ever imagine I mean she'll hop on one leg if she has to to get to whatever she wants to she's on all the time but her temperament is so nice.

[UNKNOWN]: like she's chill when she when it's off it's off. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: We go inside and she knows the schedule when we go inside and we're cooking dinner and the kids are getting her she's laying down. [UNKNOWN]: She's sleeping. [UNKNOWN]: When we're outside she's just got the frisbee like don't don't don't.

[UNKNOWN]: Not suddenly. [UNKNOWN]: And the cool thing is is she's just great with people and always has been. [UNKNOWN]: She'll see the kids in the call to sex. [UNKNOWN]: She'll go up and [UNKNOWN]: drop it, show back up, show picking up, show it out of him again. [UNKNOWN]: She's just, I got so lucky with her.

[UNKNOWN]: I don't know, like, I love Dutchies because it makes me look good as a trainer. [UNKNOWN]: She was like my first working dog. [UNKNOWN]: I did all the competitive stuff. [UNKNOWN]: I worked with a couple, like competitive trainers for that and just anyway. [UNKNOWN]: And I told my wife, I was like, I would get another Dutchie, but I don't think we'll get that lucky again.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: And then comparison comes along and steals your joy. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, exactly. [UNKNOWN]: That's what I mean is it. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and just being a dog trainer seen so many mouths come through because we usually only see the mouths that are the other end of this spectrum because you said they're either really good or really bad.

[UNKNOWN]: One thing I'd love to know your opinion on is what is your opinion between a working dog and a pet dog? [UNKNOWN]: What's the difference? [UNKNOWN]: Again, a lot of the differences, what would they bread for, where do they come from? [UNKNOWN]: I've trained a lot of working line pet dogs. [UNKNOWN]: Some people, I think, and I'll tell them, I don't think this is a mistake.

[UNKNOWN]: You have in the dog. [UNKNOWN]: And it's not that you're incapable of working this dog, it's just your lifestyle, it's in conducive. [UNKNOWN]: You know, if you have a working line, [UNKNOWN]: Dutchy and your, you know, super busy at three kids and five sports, it's not going to work. [UNKNOWN]: It's just simply not going to work for you.

[UNKNOWN]: We'll try it. [UNKNOWN]: We'll do everything we can. [UNKNOWN]: I'll be here to help you as long as that dog's alive. [UNKNOWN]: I'll give you as many follow-ups as you need, right? [UNKNOWN]: And, um, but just know that you have a dog that's no joke. [UNKNOWN]: You know, like I just did, I did the doberman not too long ago, a working line doberman.

[UNKNOWN]: We do a lot of gobermans because we have a [UNKNOWN]: not a contract. [UNKNOWN]: We have an agreement with a couple high-end breeders. [UNKNOWN]: And so a lot of our social media posts have doblments in them. [UNKNOWN]: So now we're the doblment people. [UNKNOWN]: We're doing about 50 a year.

[UNKNOWN]: Oh. [UNKNOWN]: And at least work for no, no, just past dogs. [UNKNOWN]: And the working line doblments are a lot. [UNKNOWN]: If it's in the European ones, yes, yes, there are a lot. [UNKNOWN]: And so I just trained one in [UNKNOWN]: That dog is prey-driven, is anything I've seen. [UNKNOWN]: You know, one of the things I do is I get the dog's off leash, and I take him out to this wooded area up by the old police to buy, I have an agreement to use all this facilities and everything out there, and I take him out, and it's mutual of Omaha, while King, to Mount there, though, there's animals galore.

[UNKNOWN]: I take that dog, and I wear the meta-glasses, right? [UNKNOWN]: And I'm videoing that dog. [UNKNOWN]: High speed, sea collar recalls off of a deer, [UNKNOWN]: just non stop and I'm talking to the owners in the glasses like you ready like that dog hit that rabbit and I'm on 70 something on the collar and I can't see him but he by taught pressure off and he comes to run him back and said I'm showing you what this dog is right and then I'm [UNKNOWN]: It's just that the working those working dogs might not be for everybody and a lot of people don't understand how to get that brief fulfillment And what to do the correct way with the dog and things like that, but I've seen people with With working line malin laws that are a little bit older or whatever the people and you're like you have no business Have a dog and they have a great time.

[UNKNOWN]: I think dogs. [UNKNOWN]: It's got to be that dog though, right and then the pet ones are just [UNKNOWN]: One difference is what's their motivation? [UNKNOWN]: It's the way I look at it. [UNKNOWN]: If they don't give a crap about a toy, maybe they'll play with it for two minutes and then they're not going to hunt for it.

[UNKNOWN]: And then the hunt is a big part of it. [UNKNOWN]: You can't even get them to hunt their food in the house, right? [UNKNOWN]: Those are just pets. [UNKNOWN]: Do what you can. [UNKNOWN]: Don't expect that you're going to make a water retrieve search and rescue dog out of a pet line dog, you know.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and like I said, but my daughter, I got lucky because I got her and trained her before I had kids and before I traveled as much as I do, so now she's just conditioned and you got Logan house and Peggy blood and there that's all yeah that's all go yeah she's all machinery yeah she's I get like I said I love her she's like, you know, yeah, but I think a lot of pet owners right, so [UNKNOWN]: in my head and you do too, which is, in my opinion, a huge advantage in dog training across the board.

[UNKNOWN]: You have the on and off switch to be able to understand the difference between working dogs and pets. [UNKNOWN]: So when I'm talking to a pet owner and I say, oh, you know, if if a canine guy comes in and goes out, this dog is not going to work out. [UNKNOWN]: We're going to get rid of it again.

[UNKNOWN]: A pet owner will be. [UNKNOWN]: What? [UNKNOWN]: You're going to get rid of this talking. [UNKNOWN]: So many pet owners just don't understand the difference between no working dogs are completely and entirely different utility. [UNKNOWN]: When you get that dog for a particular thing and it doesn't do that particular thing or it cannot do that particular thing.

[UNKNOWN]: That thing is gone. [UNKNOWN]: doesn't mean we're humanizing it. [UNKNOWN]: It just means it's not caught up for the program and it's gone. [UNKNOWN]: It's not. [UNKNOWN]: So I just find, so for you and your perspective, it's sometimes difficult for us trainers to navigate some of these conversations with dog owners, but also because we have that perspective, we have a huge advantage because we look at a dog that maybe should have been a working dog or [UNKNOWN]: Somebody, young, goes out and gets a big X, you know, with whatever it is, a maln-war, of course so, or whatever, and they end up having this dog, and we'd say, look, this, you know, this dog was made for this, and you, like you said, you can't provide.

[UNKNOWN]: And I love what you said to about, doesn't mean you can't do it. [UNKNOWN]: It's just, you don't have the time to do it. [UNKNOWN]: It doesn't mean that you don't have the skills or the worthiness of it. [UNKNOWN]: It's just you got sports and it's not going to make sense for the dog. [UNKNOWN]: And I did a podcast in a video on that because so many people don't understand.

[UNKNOWN]: Like when you get, when you, let me ask you this, when you get a dog into a police program, and it's not performing, what do you do? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, so if it's the kind of situation where I can send the dog back to the vendor that he goes back and do you have those contracts with vendors that that's like a normal thing like Get it back and then we'll get another one or yeah the industry standard is a 90 day work ability usually a year for health and the 90 day work ability so if they're in the class and they're a month into the classroom like look dude [UNKNOWN]: Like, he was good on your property, but then now he's afraid of the dark or whatever it is.

[UNKNOWN]: And we can't get him over it. [UNKNOWN]: For me, like the environmental things are no-goes that's, they have environmental problems. [UNKNOWN]: And if it's just because they haven't seen it and we can use spray drive to get him over it, it's okay. [UNKNOWN]: But if they're just going to hug the wall on slick floors at all times, we can't do anything with that.

[UNKNOWN]: Dog goes back. [UNKNOWN]: Um, if the vendors like screw you, you probably did something to that dog, we're not going to do it. [UNKNOWN]: We find owners for the dog, right? [UNKNOWN]: You know, um, people, if people knew what happened in Europe, you know, so say what people don't understand is in Europe, we get all the dogs from Europe, but out of a litter of 10 puppies, only three of them still are going to make it.

[UNKNOWN]: What do they think they do with the other seven puppies? [UNKNOWN]: There's a 50 gallon drama of water and they call them. [UNKNOWN]: That's what they do. [UNKNOWN]: and it's widely accepted over there. [UNKNOWN]: Not a lot of easy colors or prong colors, but you can use steel toe boots and you can drown puppies.

[UNKNOWN]: That's why it's so ridiculous over there. [UNKNOWN]: But over here, nobody's, I mean, I wouldn't say nobody's doing that, but nobody I'm never dealing with drown and puppies, right now. [UNKNOWN]: So, but if the dog doesn't work out, sometimes the handler will just say, yeah, I'll keep, I like this dog, I'll keep him.

[UNKNOWN]: I don't have another dog, so we'll get you a police dog, and you have two, and again, you know, but now you have two working line dogs in your house, good luck. [UNKNOWN]: Hopefully they like each other. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's a long life separating, creating route 8. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

[UNKNOWN]: And that's, and that's, yeah. [UNKNOWN]: And I just, we have that ability because I think that there's, so here's what I think that what I think creates a lot of arguing in the dog world, and even in the politics of the dog world, which in this podcast, I typically don't, I don't have a lot of trainers on to be honest.

[UNKNOWN]: I kind of get far away from that because I'm more fascinated by, you know, longevity and health, their brains and, [UNKNOWN]: But this is great because I think it's one thing I find is if more people understood like the huge spectrum of what dogs could be, I think there'd be less bickering or what dogs are capable of, because I think like when you get a high drive dog, [UNKNOWN]: that really has to go through a wall to potentially save an officer's life or even a hostage life or whatever.

[UNKNOWN]: There's just certain things that you have to realize and you have to be prepared for it, right? [UNKNOWN]: So people say like you should never tell dogs no or in the thing that you just said, like, when you have them, [UNKNOWN]: certain tools that are banned in Australia or in the UK or in Europe.

[UNKNOWN]: And then there's other things that are completely fine. [UNKNOWN]: It's kind of like an interesting it's interesting to kind of break things down. [UNKNOWN]: But I think just in general a lot of people [UNKNOWN]: don't understand the full spectrum. [UNKNOWN]: And that's why I always like having the conversation of working dog in pets because a lot of people don't realize that there's half of the world as pet world and then the other half is working dogs.

[UNKNOWN]: Even hurting dogs, people in Scotland or Montana who get a dog that they go up on, you know, they go up on a, they're afraid of horses. [UNKNOWN]: I'm like, okay. [UNKNOWN]: Oh, this dog, yeah, this got to go back. [UNKNOWN]: It doesn't work out. [UNKNOWN]: So I just, I find this like really neutral place when I talk to pet owners about the realities of owning dogs.

[UNKNOWN]: Like, we wanna treat them as pets and we love them as pets, but there's also this other reality of like, that dog that you have is not meant to be that pet, though. [UNKNOWN]: And you have to have that conversation of this dog was supposed to be, because the thing is is with certain breeds, [UNKNOWN]: Pet, line, docile, German Shepherd that sleeps in the couch, whatever, you know, but then you get, you know, one of those high-drive dogs and it's hard for people pet owners to understand the difference and that's why even labs.

[UNKNOWN]: labs are like no joke when you get a working line lab and they're just jacked oh yeah and everyone online's like you're you need to feed your dog i'm like no that's what all this dog benches to fifty what are you talking about a lab supposed to all right so so i just i always find it um fascinating and and a bit like [UNKNOWN]: invigorating when when I have somebody on that really knows working dogs you know like it you know hear your slap in the flank of the dog a good job and people like always beat that dog or whatever it's just crazy to kind of see like the stark differences between the realities like there's this there's this guy in Instagram I gotta find his handle I don't know what it is but he's funny he has like

[UNKNOWN]: you know like a like a line will be attacked in a zebra and something in the comments back you should have saved a zebra yeah and he does this whole thing and I always like think I'm like this is the same people that are in the comments telling you not to ignore your dog or whatever anyway I digress two things on that one I just last year went to Africa on Safari and saw kill good luck [UNKNOWN]: Wow, there was six of them.

[UNKNOWN]: Good lions there. [UNKNOWN]: Yes, six of them killed as they're right in front of us. [UNKNOWN]: It was it was insane, but the other thing too is with the working line things guys folks understand so they're like they think Maybe they think lab too, but they're thinking [UNKNOWN]: You know, shepherd, malenoise, you know, if they don't know them, they think of malenoise.

[UNKNOWN]: They don't know what a Dutch shepherd is, but you know, it's a stripy German shepherd to them or whatever. [UNKNOWN]: And then they go get a Jack Russell. [UNKNOWN]: And they wonder why this, you know, dogs have some problems. [UNKNOWN]: I'm like, you do know what Jack Russell's do, right?

[UNKNOWN]: Or they get, you know, German short hair pointer from a hunting breeder. [UNKNOWN]: You know, who the dog is aggressive, birds too much to the guy sells him as a pet. [UNKNOWN]: And next thing, you know that dog is still doing all kinds of peeing all over the house and everything else. [UNKNOWN]: Because they're like, oh, I just, it's just a cute little German short hair pointer.

[UNKNOWN]: He didn't work out, you know. [UNKNOWN]: They still have traits, a lot of things. [UNKNOWN]: Like, you have to know, you know, doing your research, doing your brief, brief research. [UNKNOWN]: A lot of people don't know certain things about great things. [UNKNOWN]: Definitely don't know things about course hos.

[UNKNOWN]: Like they should. [UNKNOWN]: So, it's not just those three breeds, you can easily get a working line Australian Shepherd from some Amish Breeder for $500 and that dog has bit all your children in the butt, or in the back of the legs, you know, like we had, we had a guy on my podcast working to a radio.

[UNKNOWN]: We had a guy on because we don't it's not just about me and Ted the coast for both police doctriners, but we have military people on sport people with search and rescue hunting. [UNKNOWN]: A lot of things. [UNKNOWN]: I don't know anything about. [UNKNOWN]: We had a guy two guys on there about, um, [UNKNOWN]: Like competitive cattle stuff like you know stock dogs they call them.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I thought that those dogs because I'm stupid I thought those dogs bit that cows in the back of the legs. [UNKNOWN]: They bite them straight on the face and the nose and so I started talking to them I'm like That's wild and then I started watching videos of those dogs doing it. [UNKNOWN]: I'm like [UNKNOWN]: Holy crap, that was a hard bite.

[UNKNOWN]: And I don't know anything about cows. [UNKNOWN]: And in other nibnozi, and they always go and stare at things to try to pressure them with staring at them. [UNKNOWN]: I'm like, I don't know any of that stuff, right? [UNKNOWN]: But what if you got one of those dogs, you know, border collies, rescues are huge.

[UNKNOWN]: Because people get border collies, and they're like, I like to sit around and do nothing, you know. [UNKNOWN]: But then those dogs, like police dogs, [UNKNOWN]: I tell the guys, like, listen, pet dogs, it's like, we got a Coke's pet dogs to do things, a lot of them. [UNKNOWN]: You know, like that where I was talking about it, my facility, the funhouse.

[UNKNOWN]: I have ladders and steps and I have a fake tunnel and a fake attic and I have a palacid wall. [UNKNOWN]: We get the dogs to jump, build confidence, doing things, going in and having all this great time on the, on the, on the, on the transfer, so that on the pet to on the police dogs, we got a tea from a do nothing, like yeah.

[UNKNOWN]: like most of their lives are doing nothing and they're terrible at it, you know, so place on a police dog, create on a police dog downstairs on a police dog and so I tell the guys ago, when you think all you need to do is two ball that dog all day long and run, run out, oh man, I got to run his energy out.

[UNKNOWN]: You're creating a tier one athlete and you cannot run him enough. [UNKNOWN]: You're better off mixing that up, do something, and then put that dog in a [UNKNOWN]: listen to him while I watch him shake a little bit and then pass out. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: And then after a few sessions of that, he's like, this is pretty sweet.

[UNKNOWN]: Like I just lay here and food comes out of nowhere. [UNKNOWN]: And I get to go do cool things. [UNKNOWN]: I didn't have to do anything. [UNKNOWN]: I didn't have to, you know, [UNKNOWN]: patrol my backyard. [UNKNOWN]: I didn't have to protect at the window from the Girl Scout Cookie girl who's obviously here to murder all of us Right, so I got to do whatever so so it's the same thing with the police guys You know what you have but also know that your dog is capable of chilling and doing nothing but they don't you know They don't think that way [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

[UNKNOWN]: Do you when you're working with police dogs and police police in general? [UNKNOWN]: Is there a is there just some sort of energy that the police have like the K9 guys that I find that when I have trained with them in the past, they feel like they have to be aggressive towards their dog and they have to dial them up and they have to [UNKNOWN]: You know, get them all jacked up and they're yelling and it's chaotic and I'm like, you know, and to me good dog training is pretty like you said earlier it's pretty silent like the dog either just activates or doesn't you just, you know, do your thing but do you find that there's there's just kind of like that almost that brotherhood of [UNKNOWN]: inevitability of getting into like we have to like treat these dogs a certain way or their aggressive and I think I think it does run into that because the dogs are typically intact and it's male and male and it's like all this energy and of course the adrenaline is through the roof especially when you're on a call maybe you're a new guy on the our girl on the on the streets

[UNKNOWN]: Your dogs fired up like how do you do you work with the guys and the girls on the streets to teach them how to be calm like you would with your pet dog owners? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, so Most can I guys I think I would say the vast majority of your type of people, right? [UNKNOWN]: So we're all and I am too.

[UNKNOWN]: So we're all ready on fire. [UNKNOWN]: I wake up Let's go, you know, like we were talking about you just through the other day. [UNKNOWN]: I'm 57. [UNKNOWN]: I can't wait to go get strangled, right? [UNKNOWN]: And I'm going to go in there because I like fights. [UNKNOWN]: I like that human conflict and human interaction like that laugh my ass off in the guy I almost broke my arm.

[UNKNOWN]: I mean, it's just kind of the way that type of personality is. [UNKNOWN]: And then when you're in it with the dog, it's you and him together. [UNKNOWN]: They're so excited that he did the thing that he did. [UNKNOWN]: And maybe you're like, man, I taught him that that's so freaking cool, right?

[UNKNOWN]: then they get jacked up, right? [UNKNOWN]: So one of the biggest mistakes they make and I put in my pocket and my pocket and my book, too, I put on my thing, stop yelling, stop yelling. [UNKNOWN]: If the dog is, say, the dog's barking in the car and you're yelling, shut up. [UNKNOWN]: And the dog's like, cool, we're all yelling.

[UNKNOWN]: That's all I wanted was for all of us to be doing the same thing, right? [UNKNOWN]: But I'll have them all right. [UNKNOWN]: Go ahead tomorrow, we're doing outwork on the seminar, I'll tell them all right. [UNKNOWN]: Go ahead and tell your dog out and they yell at the out and I'm like, whoa.

[UNKNOWN]: Listen, let's just try to talk to him, right? [UNKNOWN]: One of my favorite things to do whether it's police dogs or pet dogs is going to the facility by myself, put on music, rep a dog with food and not talk to him. [UNKNOWN]: I mean, with the exception of here, sit down, place. [UNKNOWN]: All right.

[UNKNOWN]: That type of thing. [UNKNOWN]: I don't need to have, I don't have to tell him why I'm pissed off today, or what my daughter did that made me angry, or what, you know, [UNKNOWN]: what somebody cut me off on the way here today, you know, or mancious in this crazy guy at the airport today, we would believe it, right?

[UNKNOWN]: And so, I just tell the guys that go, [UNKNOWN]: We need to kind of relax. [UNKNOWN]: But what I used to do in training and I did on the street too was I created chaos when the dog was on the bite. [UNKNOWN]: I would create chaos by yelling because I found with suspects, they're afraid, they're in, sometimes you bite these guys in the pitch black and they didn't see the dog coming.

[UNKNOWN]: They knew it was there because we told them. [UNKNOWN]: But so imagine you're in the pitch black and you have this, [UNKNOWN]: monster on you and it really hurts and now you have this psycho screaming at you and this flashlight's coming in and out like that you you cannot think about getting a gun getting a knife that you have hidden or whatever.

[UNKNOWN]: So I would create chaos there. [UNKNOWN]: I would come out of a house after biting it guys outside be like, what the hell was going on in there? [UNKNOWN]: I'm like, no normal, nothing. [UNKNOWN]: But the adrenaline dump [UNKNOWN]: like when you're working with a new guy like say a rookie backup guy and and the dog gets a bite you that that uh... rookie is like a deer and a head like staring and you're like hey dude watch the car or you know i mean pay attention and um...

[UNKNOWN]: And I get it. [UNKNOWN]: I do get it. [UNKNOWN]: But they do. [UNKNOWN]: There is this thing. [UNKNOWN]: And it's just pervasive. [UNKNOWN]: It's just institutional crap knowledge passed on over the time as you got to show them. [UNKNOWN]: You got to this and you got worked off for this. [UNKNOWN]: And I'm sure I was like that.

[UNKNOWN]: I'm sure for sure I was like that. [UNKNOWN]: But you don't you're better off being the calm while they're nuts. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I see the switch to like there's there's more of the things that you're doing now. [UNKNOWN]: And I think when you and I met in Albany or maybe when I was on your podcast way back in the day, you said like all the time you would make you make a killing in like the police dog world because of the the the simplicity and the e-colour work is everyone knows like cranking and blasting that's like in the dogs are always like [UNKNOWN]: like this I cracked out right and and I I did this I got asked to do and this was awesome by the way I got asked to do a I don't know what it is special forces seminar that they do they did in this last year in Denver or Colorado Springs somewhere around there and they're like we want and you have to be invited and especially as a civilian you know if you're maybe a law enforcement or X you probably have different things how you can get it anyway

[UNKNOWN]: So they invited me in, they said, hey, we want you to come in and talk about like over-stimulation with e-colors and stuff. [UNKNOWN]: And is that 10th group? [UNKNOWN]: I don't know. [UNKNOWN]: I don't know. [UNKNOWN]: The base? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: It was at a base. [UNKNOWN]: And it was like all the special things.

[UNKNOWN]: We raised guys and they bring them in there. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: It was all of them though. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: And I had something else that I couldn't make it in person. [UNKNOWN]: I can't remember what it was. [UNKNOWN]: And I was like really ticked off because I was like, [UNKNOWN]: And I don't know special forces, guys.

[UNKNOWN]: I wasn't a military guy. [UNKNOWN]: I do know dogs. [UNKNOWN]: And I do know how to make e-collar training simpler. [UNKNOWN]: And I do know how to make it more enjoyable for your dog, especially if you're nailing your dog for certain things. [UNKNOWN]: And I don't care if you're a silting six or whatever.

[UNKNOWN]: Dogs is a different thing, right? [UNKNOWN]: It's just a different thing. [UNKNOWN]: And so I was super excited. [UNKNOWN]: And it was great. [UNKNOWN]: And it was great opportunity. [UNKNOWN]: And I did it, but I couldn't see anybody. [UNKNOWN]: There's this little webcam in the corner of the room.

[UNKNOWN]: You know? [UNKNOWN]: like this and it wasn't even like a like a like a lap top. [UNKNOWN]: It was literally like a little tiny security camera and I'm looking and there's like you know all these people and my shit and I'm working my luck. [UNKNOWN]: I was working my dog and it was kind of like talking about how to not be so worked up and I actually got contacted by [UNKNOWN]: the marine core, uh, work, uh, canine group over in Okonawa in Japan, and they, it's kind of said the same thing because they found me online.

[UNKNOWN]: They're like, hey, we really like what you're doing with the eat collar would be great. [UNKNOWN]: And their big thing was like over stimulation in the canal. [UNKNOWN]: And I was like, well, [UNKNOWN]: It's really, I mean, I can consult you online, but anyway, so my point is, is I think you and other people that are out there, I'm sure, I don't know them, that you're making a change in their working dog where you're saying, hey, you would have, like, it would be hard for me to come in and tell a Canon officer to calm down, but are you good, you know, like chill out your dog actually doesn't, you know, but when [UNKNOWN]: But to your point, there is some utility about like when the dog is on a bite where you're creating chaos so the person who's getting bit doesn't can't can't think their nervous system is just crashing out they can't think the fight or punch or spit or stab or whatever that makes sense what do you when you release a canine

[UNKNOWN]: into a into a, I've seen a lot of videos, let me, let me back up. [UNKNOWN]: I've seen some videos where you release a canine into a foot pursuit, but there's civilians, how dangerous does that get when you release because now civilians are running because the purpose running and the cops are running, your partners running, how hairy does that get?

[UNKNOWN]: It can get pretty good, pretty hairy. [UNKNOWN]: So you, you got to target the dog and the guys are excited and sometimes they don't do that. [UNKNOWN]: The dog, once the dog gets on that target, they'll cross their eyes and they're just focused on that thing. [UNKNOWN]: But then a cop runs in front of them and dogs are opportunistic.

[UNKNOWN]: They're like, oh, there's a guy right there. [UNKNOWN]: And they might that guy or the civilian runs in front of them. [UNKNOWN]: Most times, so for example, most times cops get bit by the cops by the dogs. [UNKNOWN]: It was there fault, getting there but in front of the dogs mouth. [UNKNOWN]: Sometimes it's happened, civilians got bit and the I don't care.

[UNKNOWN]: The guy could be a cop for 30 years. [UNKNOWN]: He can still get tunnel vision. [UNKNOWN]: You know, he can be ejected. [UNKNOWN]: What if he's a little bit older dog handler and he gets the dog out and says first chance? [UNKNOWN]: He's so if he's been waiting on this and he didn't see this person running.

[UNKNOWN]: You know, now maybe that person was a passenger in that car and there's some, you know, a little difference with that, but [UNKNOWN]: you got it work on focus and it's hard to do that in training because who wants to be the the innocent put the news mussels and things like that. [UNKNOWN]: But focus focus that's when that stuff becomes the responsibility of the handler where the handler can get themselves in trouble.

[UNKNOWN]: And is there obedient supposed to be as good as like, you know, a level three dog and a sport work like they can just down. [UNKNOWN]: No, they're supposed to, they are, it would that would be great, but most police departments focus on certification once a year. [UNKNOWN]: So to give you an example when I first started in the unit like I said, it was 14 week handler schools.

[UNKNOWN]: Most places now are six weeks, six weeks. [UNKNOWN]: Sometimes they make you do six weeks green to finish the certification. [UNKNOWN]: So if you're the trainer, [UNKNOWN]: you're not getting to do scenarios, maybe a little couple here and there, most of you're working on getting that dog back on the street.

[UNKNOWN]: They don't, the industries don't care. [UNKNOWN]: They, the, the canine guys are more apt to use force than SWAT and then some of the other places, but those guys, they would never [UNKNOWN]: ever take a swat guy out of training early never that guy has to go through the class stay in the kick whatever the entire time he goes to a seminar whatever And I've guys pulled out of the seminar this week that it go work It's like when when are we going to take this shit seriously, right?

[UNKNOWN]: But when you're the handler the owners is on you the policies that [UNKNOWN]: Like, your dog doesn't have qualified immunity. [UNKNOWN]: Your dog's not gonna get sued. [UNKNOWN]: So if the dog does some dumb dog stuff, it's you. [UNKNOWN]: So what does happen if you release the canine and they do bite a civilian on accident?

[UNKNOWN]: You know, all the usual paper stuff, but the civilian usually, you know, if your intention was good and it wasn't a grievous, so maybe you were focused on the guy and you sent him on the guy. [UNKNOWN]: and you didn't see this person, that person probably shouldn't have been there, but they're there here, we are.

[UNKNOWN]: And they got in there, the city's gonna pay a little bit, they're gonna pay some bills and give out a little bit of money, but the big lie in law enforcement as well, I don't wanna have a bike dog because there's too much liability, there's actually this is not a real thing. [UNKNOWN]: There's really no liability, not no, but no one can go and find all these millions and millions of dollar payouts.

[UNKNOWN]: This just doesn't exist, it's not true. [UNKNOWN]: It's bolt-crap lies that, [UNKNOWN]: some supervisor told the previous supervisor told the previous. [UNKNOWN]: A lot of sheriffs are like that, they're like, well, I don't want that because of liability. [UNKNOWN]: And I always ask them, [UNKNOWN]: bring out the cases show me.

[UNKNOWN]: Show me the liability. [UNKNOWN]: 20,000 that ain't liability. [UNKNOWN]: Because not- What do you mean there's there's departments who decline apprehension dogs because of the liability possibilities? [UNKNOWN]: That's what they think. [UNKNOWN]: Yep. [UNKNOWN]: And it's all fake made up.

[UNKNOWN]: When I challenge them on it, they can never support their position. [UNKNOWN]: Why? [UNKNOWN]: Why are they doing that? [UNKNOWN]: Because someone before them told them to do that. [UNKNOWN]: So they were assistant chief the chief before them said no screw those dogs. [UNKNOWN]: I don't like it But ever they just it's always the word liability and then when I challenge them they cannot support it Is it doesn't exist?

[UNKNOWN]: It's not true. [UNKNOWN]: There's not millions of dogs paid out from dog bites. [UNKNOWN]: Chris isn't and then when you release a canine dog and they go and they bite the bad guy or girl What is that dog's job typically doing? [UNKNOWN]: So [UNKNOWN]: it depends. [UNKNOWN]: It could be fine and locate.

[UNKNOWN]: You know, we got this guy hidden in this house. [UNKNOWN]: He's a burglar. [UNKNOWN]: We don't know where he's at. [UNKNOWN]: Oh, we know where he's at now because he's screaming. [UNKNOWN]: All right. [UNKNOWN]: So all the dogs barking at a door where we know he's at. [UNKNOWN]: So that's one of the primary jobs find to locate that bad guy or stop him from getting away like the runners, which oddly enough, man, as much as we train running and everything with the decoys, it doesn't happen that much.

[UNKNOWN]: I mean, it happens, but most of the bites guys would tell you are a guy's hiding. [UNKNOWN]: They're hiding under cars, they're hiding under trailers, they're hiding in basements, they're hiding, and that's a nice thing about this part of the country, we have basements. [UNKNOWN]: These morons, man, to please show up and they're wanting on a bunch of stuff.

[UNKNOWN]: They go into the one room, they can't get out of. [UNKNOWN]: I don't get it. [UNKNOWN]: They go hide behind the washing machine or the hot water heater all the time. [UNKNOWN]: Oh, duh. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Oh, mass. [UNKNOWN]: You can't go by the back door and do something. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

[UNKNOWN]: You know, get yourself an exit point, but they can't think that way. [UNKNOWN]: So, you know, chase that guy down by them and find a locate. [UNKNOWN]: His job is to do, to get there before the handler or so that the handler is just safer. [UNKNOWN]: And then the NL like PSA or even what do they call an IGP?

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I think, no. [UNKNOWN]: Shotsin, whatever, Shotsin as we know. [UNKNOWN]: They do like a lot of bark and holds. [UNKNOWN]: So behind blinds and stuff, is that, do they do that in police work? [UNKNOWN]: Or the dog will go up, find the person, do a bark and hold, and tell the person moves to, you know, do something or run away or... No, bark it.

[UNKNOWN]: So there are some places that teach bark and hold and it's the dumbest, most ridiculous thing in police work you can do. [UNKNOWN]: The dangerous sir. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's stupid. [UNKNOWN]: very litigious because you're asking a domesticated predator, never, ever smarter than a four-year-old child to make an instantaneous decision.

[UNKNOWN]: Is this guy giving up or not? [UNKNOWN]: Right? [UNKNOWN]: So if you're not there in the room and the dog is supposed to be a barking old dog and he goes in and bites, you lie on your report every time because you don't know. [UNKNOWN]: You're going to put in there. [UNKNOWN]: He moved. [UNKNOWN]: He must have moved my dog when a bit him.

[UNKNOWN]: You're better off training, fine and bite. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, there's no guesswork. [UNKNOWN]: Because the way guys defeat dogs is by being still, still persons cause most failures, because the trainers don't train it. [UNKNOWN]: They don't train failures. [UNKNOWN]: They just run, just have them run and off.

[UNKNOWN]: And when, for an example, if like you send a dog into the house because because I was asking, I've asked my friends that are, you know, guys all the time is like, that's why you guys will go in and do your announcement so much. [UNKNOWN]: So that way if there are innocent people in there, it's like, you got to get out because if that dog finds you, you're the target, unfortunately.

[UNKNOWN]: You find so he finds. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: And if [UNKNOWN]: You know, I probably would say every single policy in the United States says you got it went when possible, give a canine warning. [UNKNOWN]: You got to give him the chance to give up, right? [UNKNOWN]: Like, back where I'm from, oh, nobody gives up.

[UNKNOWN]: It's crazy. [UNKNOWN]: They don't give up until he physically touch him. [UNKNOWN]: It's the weirdest thing. [UNKNOWN]: I'll give you a great story. [UNKNOWN]: You had to handlers looking for this guy, beat his wife up. [UNKNOWN]: And it's not a felony, but it's a misdemeanor, but it's a misdemeanor violence so we can still use our dogs on that.

[UNKNOWN]: So he's hiding in the house. [UNKNOWN]: She's outside, ball busted up. [UNKNOWN]: and we'll say his name is Phil. [UNKNOWN]: So they give the warnings going around going around the dog gets to this closet in this bedroom. [UNKNOWN]: It's the last one. [UNKNOWN]: Park, Park, Park, Park, Park at the door.

[UNKNOWN]: The handler said, Phil, I know you're behind this door. [UNKNOWN]: Come out, get arrested. [UNKNOWN]: Or we're gonna open the door and put the dog in. [UNKNOWN]: Dead silence, Phil, I'm last chance. [UNKNOWN]: Open the door, send the dog in, nailed him. [UNKNOWN]: And then you drag him out and you're like, Phil, what the hell are you doing?

[UNKNOWN]: I, he goes, I just didn't think you're going to do it. [UNKNOWN]: What do you not know us like, you know? [UNKNOWN]: And then, but then there's a, there's a certain prison culture where, um, if you're the kind of guy that's going to be going back to prison, a bunch, you can't surrender. [UNKNOWN]: You surrender to the police and they find out when you go to prison, you could, you got to hang out, they'll, they'll be nice.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: So, Serenio Hio and I give up, no give up, you got to fight them, fight them the matter what, fight the police no matter what. [UNKNOWN]: There's a gang in Ohio, it's, it was in the youth authority, but I think it's in the adult prison now called the Heartless Fellens. [UNKNOWN]: Well, that sounds nice.

[UNKNOWN]: It's a prison gang, so you could be a trip, but you go in there, then you're in the Heartless Fellens, and, and I had a couple of guys tell me, I can't give up. [UNKNOWN]: The Heartless Fellens, oh. [UNKNOWN]: You'll beat me up or stab me when I go into prison. [UNKNOWN]: I have to fight. [UNKNOWN]: That's awful.

[UNKNOWN]: So it's crazy, yeah. [UNKNOWN]: It is an awful existence, but those are people who know they're going to go back to prison. [UNKNOWN]: And that's their life. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: That's so like, what does a canine dog actually do to human after they when they get on them? [UNKNOWN]: What depends, like if the person is a kind, like for example, I got bit, um, [UNKNOWN]: Let's say it was two years ago on a seminar in Indiana.

[UNKNOWN]: And the dog bit me full, full on my right here, on my wrist, little just above my wrist. [UNKNOWN]: And I grabbed him by his collar, his flat collar and lifted him up off the ground, and that dog just stayed there. [UNKNOWN]: He didn't type right or he didn't move. [UNKNOWN]: I just, I didn't panic and I didn't pull my arm out because I knew and the hand that came over and choking got him off.

[UNKNOWN]: So I had four punctures, nothing, no damage to my tattoos, no nothing, you know, pretty standard. [UNKNOWN]: But what happens in pure panic, guys are getting bit by a dog, they will pull and the dog holds and just shred that off of there. [UNKNOWN]: Sometimes some dogs will bite right so hard and so deep that guy can't pull his arm out.

[UNKNOWN]: That's a good scenario. [UNKNOWN]: You just got deep, deep, because that dog's teeth can get into the bone, right? [UNKNOWN]: They bite and they hold that. [UNKNOWN]: If the guy starts fighting, well, those dogs are about it. [UNKNOWN]: So they'll fight back and a lot of them thrash and they punch.

[UNKNOWN]: We teach punching. [UNKNOWN]: We want the dog to punch instead of pull. [UNKNOWN]: So that the polling is a decision made by the human. [UNKNOWN]: But some humans, man, like they're in pain. [UNKNOWN]: I got a guy bit in the leg because you did a burglary jump out of the window when I pulled up.

[UNKNOWN]: Probably three o'clock in the afternoon ran down the sidewalk and I can't even make this any better and I hit the button and the door popped in it. [UNKNOWN]: I rolled my window down and I did a better stop, sent the dog to dog bit him in the leg, took him down and as a panic he just starts hitting the dog.

[UNKNOWN]: and that dog just transferred right into his arm and shredded severed everything is on. [UNKNOWN]: Oh. [UNKNOWN]: He was in the hospital for 50 days. [UNKNOWN]: Oh wow. [UNKNOWN]: Shred, severed everything, every tendon, every, everything. [UNKNOWN]: I had to run and put the dog up and get a first-aid kit because that, it was bleeding, dark blood.

[UNKNOWN]: And I was like, [UNKNOWN]: What'd you hit him for? [UNKNOWN]: He goes, hi, he's biting me, you know, it's just a thing, you know? [UNKNOWN]: Sure. [UNKNOWN]: They, they, where do the odds of somebody who knows dogs? [UNKNOWN]: And the dogs running say, I say I robbed a bank. [UNKNOWN]: I run out, you send a dog on me.

[UNKNOWN]: And I just start laying out French German and English commands to the dog very confidently. [UNKNOWN]: Down, blot, whatever. [UNKNOWN]: What are the odds of that dog's stopping? [UNKNOWN]: It's not zero. [UNKNOWN]: You know, and we kind of train against that throwing things at them, throwing balls, throwing one of the favorite things I like to do, especially in the muzzle is we'll have a dog going to a room where there's a female, and we had the female sweet talk the dog.

[UNKNOWN]: All right, oh my god dude, that shit works until we train it and then he just nukes that girl right in her gut, you know, but So there's always those weird things. [UNKNOWN]: I mean you can try you can try all you want, but the dogs in it, man Yeah, and then you're trying to get him stop your raising, you know, waving your arms like that you're probably gonna wear a dog on your bicep [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, I asked Chris that too and they said that they they do run the decentralization scenarios for that As Chris decoied for you guys tomorrow.

[UNKNOWN]: Okay, so you'll he'll hear him he's gonna scream and cry and yell like a little girl What I love about Chris is he puts the fight on yeah, like you'll hear him [UNKNOWN]: He's screaming, he's like, get off. [UNKNOWN]: He's screaming right in the dog's face, get off, you know? [UNKNOWN]: And he's not hitting the dog, but he's coming over top, wack, you know?

[UNKNOWN]: And because that's to your point, that's going to be instinctual to a person. [UNKNOWN]: I would assume, I mean, I mean, you would know how many people who actually get bit by a dog just go. [UNKNOWN]: Those are dangerous zombies. [UNKNOWN]: It does happen, but it's not a lot. [UNKNOWN]: Those are dangerous dangerous human beings.

[UNKNOWN]: Same people who when you hit him with the taser, they go up. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: We had a guy bit by we had this dog back home who Vlad who was, um, we like stopped doing bite work at training because it's just, it's just not good. [UNKNOWN]: And I have to catch a billion dogs. [UNKNOWN]: I'm like, yeah, I don't, it's not fun anymore with Vlad.

[UNKNOWN]: And he bit a dude in the leg so much so that the doctor thought he was going to [UNKNOWN]: which he didn't end up having to, but that dude when he'd been him, he looked down and just, we could get your dog. [UNKNOWN]: That's it. [UNKNOWN]: Wow. [UNKNOWN]: We could get your dog. [UNKNOWN]: There's psycho.

[UNKNOWN]: There's zombies in this country, I'm telling you man. [UNKNOWN]: Where's he on drugs? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I'm sure. [UNKNOWN]: Mathatic, mostly probably, you know, some wet or some of those synthetic ones that were screwin' everybody up for a long time. [UNKNOWN]: We've had a few of those, everyone's wild.

[UNKNOWN]: You'll get a guy, man. [UNKNOWN]: They're just... [UNKNOWN]: I stay in dress, right? [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah. [UNKNOWN]: You like have to put him down, like you're like, what do you do when a dog doesn't let go? [UNKNOWN]: Like you've done all the tests, you've done the desensitizations, you've done the fights, you've got great decoys.

[UNKNOWN]: What do you do when a canine doesn't let go? [UNKNOWN]: So we have, you know, we have brake sticks, we have ways to get the dogs to let go if like on the street if that's a thing in training if we have to we do it. [UNKNOWN]: We keep working one of the things, one of the reasons why they bring me in for these scenarios.

[UNKNOWN]: Our excuse me, the seminars is working that verbal out. [UNKNOWN]: The verbal out is this like guys think it's like this pinnacle of dog training. [UNKNOWN]: However, in this country, that's not the law of the land. [UNKNOWN]: The law of this country is there's not a single law, Kate Korkay's or anything, says you must verbal out that dog.

[UNKNOWN]: You have to get the dog off in a timely manner. [UNKNOWN]: So we train that, lift off choke off, brake sticks, tone with the collar, because I use the tone function on the collar to clean up those outs, because I give the outcome and if they don't, tone is the warning and their behavior of not outing is about to get them corrected and it clears up a lot [UNKNOWN]: Um, so we give them a lot of ways to get it off.

[UNKNOWN]: I don't believe the verbal out is the way to, um, what you should be doing on the street. [UNKNOWN]: I think you should be getting one of that dog, getting them off that bite and then controlling him so he doesn't bite back up, he doesn't re-bite the dude, he does, you know, whatever. [UNKNOWN]: Um, just you got to practice getting him off.

[UNKNOWN]: But there have been dogs that we've had that, um, I'm like, [UNKNOWN]: The fight with this dog, because you have to out for certification, right? [UNKNOWN]: You most everybody certifies at least once a year, you gotta get them out for that. [UNKNOWN]: You're just showing control is what you're doing.

[UNKNOWN]: And the fight for some dogs isn't worth it. [UNKNOWN]: You know, there's dogs you get that are so high-drive that you're like, I don't know that you should even, like, this isn't really the dog. [UNKNOWN]: You know, I trained, I worked with it, I didn't train, but I worked with the dog from Canada.

[UNKNOWN]: And I think I talked about him in the book too, who was so not only possessive, but he would try to swallow everything. [UNKNOWN]: So during the first day of layering E-Color rep on the dog, he ripped a monster energy cannon half and swallowed it. [UNKNOWN]: He ate, we were at a baseball stadium in Buffalo, New York.

[UNKNOWN]: Eight home plate ripped the rubber out, ate a rosin bag, tore, ripped an entire arm off a couch. [UNKNOWN]: when you're just working on the least, yes, we're just throwing food, letting him go get it and stem negative reinforcement, putting stem on here, turn it up real easy. [UNKNOWN]: And so that dog had never let go of anything like it gets to the point where they were tracking a guy that was running from them from a stalling car and he threw baggy.

[UNKNOWN]: Well, that dog, I mean, if he looks at it, that's one thing. [UNKNOWN]: He should be still on that man. [UNKNOWN]: He went over an 80, it was method and fentanyl, like 40 grams, almost killed him. [UNKNOWN]: And that's not good, right? [UNKNOWN]: So I managed to get verbal outs out of him with my system.

[UNKNOWN]: Like, he had failed his certification. [UNKNOWN]: They got him certified, whatever, eventually, like a year, two years later, three years later, two years, I think he'd been a guy hiding somewhere and bit him in the ear and swallowed his ear. [UNKNOWN]: So he shouldn't have been. [UNKNOWN]: That's not a dog, you know?

[UNKNOWN]: But that's not a dog, you know. [UNKNOWN]: And they had to keep putting that dog unconscious just to get things out of his mouth. [UNKNOWN]: And again, not just possession, trying to swallow as the worst one I've ever seen. [UNKNOWN]: Great handler, great trainer. [UNKNOWN]: They got the dog, that's the dog they were given.

[UNKNOWN]: They're doing their best. [UNKNOWN]: That dog was trying to bite the handler all the time. [UNKNOWN]: Sometimes, you know, too much is too much. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: So there are dogs in the police world where you're like, this isn't even when they're on the streets and they pass the first academy.

[UNKNOWN]: It's, they could face out. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: It's usually mostly from. [UNKNOWN]: So every once you get a dog that'll have a singular learning event that kind of alters their mindset and they start failing and not doing well, usually it's dogs that start biting the handlers. [UNKNOWN]: What is you've said that a couple times why why is it why do canines actually turn and bite their handlers?

[UNKNOWN]: Mostly I think it's mostly a relationship problem and the way they were trained. [UNKNOWN]: And some dogs occasionally you'll get those dogs that it don't matter. [UNKNOWN]: I just I'm going to do what I want to do and I'm going to get that way through biting you let me go Stop you know and then the dog's good for a couple months and then he's not and then he's good and then he's not.

[UNKNOWN]: And it's like those dogs, that's a horrible life of that hammer, a horrible life, like you're flinchy, jumping all the time, and those dogs, you've probably dealt with it with the aggression cases in here, they'll punch you, they'll flinch to see, you know, say, I did a a course a year ago, he bit me 22 times in the during the board and train, most of those, it was always when I went to just throw a slip lead on to get them out of the kennel.

[UNKNOWN]: And he, you know, and I'm like, I got a stop moving man, like this is tough though. [UNKNOWN]: He's a hundred and some, I got a stop moving. [UNKNOWN]: So I put the big thick gloves on. [UNKNOWN]: I would reach in and bang, he'd bang my hand. [UNKNOWN]: I'm like, fuck, I got, all right. [UNKNOWN]: Take a breath, stick my band.

[UNKNOWN]: But, and then when I stopped moving, he stopped biting me, because he got nothing out of it, right? [UNKNOWN]: And then him and I actually, we ended up having a good time. [UNKNOWN]: But he was a, can't make a mistake dog and they made a mistake. [UNKNOWN]: And then I'm having to use an item.

[UNKNOWN]: Six dogs in that litter all six youth and I Genetic you're just horrible, but um, so then the dogs they're just there's some dogs that they're just I think they're nuts The dogs are constantly biting the person who feeds them every day Or not what's the means to have behavior with the nature for you?

[UNKNOWN]: What are the boxes that need to be checked for that? [UNKNOWN]: Um, I go with um, if no amount of training is gonna make it livable [UNKNOWN]: I'll give you a couple of different examples. [UNKNOWN]: I had this dog, I fired this trainer and I went to her house and picked her dogs up. [UNKNOWN]: And she had this course so that she just got in.

[UNKNOWN]: And she had like, I go to her house and there's five crates in her backyard covered in shit. [UNKNOWN]: I'm like, oh, what is this? [UNKNOWN]: She goes to that dog every single time you touch the crate gate will empty her bals. [UNKNOWN]: Like, she's not even eating, like it's like dark black tar.

[UNKNOWN]: Like every little last thing that's in her. [UNKNOWN]: Sure, she was right, that dog could not physically live in its own brain in its own skin. [UNKNOWN]: And the owner comes, I said, you gotta come get this dog. [UNKNOWN]: I'm not gonna work with him. [UNKNOWN]: And I had that dog for three hours and gave her four baths, just shit and everything all over the, I got her out of the crate in a bite suit.

[UNKNOWN]: but could not live just could not exist in her head. [UNKNOWN]: And the leave shows up, she's got a walker. [UNKNOWN]: Oh God, her husband's bedridden. [UNKNOWN]: And she went in the dog public access. [UNKNOWN]: I'm like, [UNKNOWN]: Ma'am, no one, this, this dog's too mentally too far gone, just just whatever, but as far as the biting stuff goes, the hunters, the dogs that hunt other dogs and hunt humans like that question I ask, run down the street and bite, I go, they go, I think that dog would bite any human being that they come across and they try to bite my kid.

[UNKNOWN]: Or they bit my kid and then they bit the kids front and they did I might look I don't think that dog should live Whereabouts One a year maybe with that so I have some years three to not not a ton for trying it right I don't want to do that but some dogs aren't saying And what do you think causes that?

[UNKNOWN]: I think it's probably just mostly genetics. [UNKNOWN]: You know, I would I would put it on there on [UNKNOWN]: You know, that particular dog that I trained, that bit me all those times, that breeder has, that's the dog's he breeds, and it's dogs bite everybody's. [UNKNOWN]: A lot of his dogs get euthanized.

[UNKNOWN]: So there's a couple of course, so breeders in Ohio that are freaking amazing. [UNKNOWN]: Their dogs are fan-freaking-tastic. [UNKNOWN]: I trained one, same as Tony, and he's the dog that those owners end up getting. [UNKNOWN]: Because funny thing was, as you talked about in your podcast the other day, the original dog started, resource guarding the bed, and for those who guys are listening to Tom Show and you don't believe what he's saying, again, you've just not seen enough dogs.

[UNKNOWN]: This happens. [UNKNOWN]: This is exactly the way it happens all the time. [UNKNOWN]: You have a married couple. [UNKNOWN]: They start letting the dog in the bed. [UNKNOWN]: Dad comes home, tries to push the dog off the bed, the dog resource guards the wife and the bed against the dad. [UNKNOWN]: The next day or a couple of days later, resource cards, the bed against the wife and the husband, every single time, and then the dog launches out.

[UNKNOWN]: That's what happened. [UNKNOWN]: Launched at him, he elated into a closet. [UNKNOWN]: And that was the last draw. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, I see that all the time. [UNKNOWN]: I tell, you know, I think as trainers, especially as I put out content to the general public because it's, you know, a lot of it's unsolicited.

[UNKNOWN]: Some people just scroll and they see it and they ask you this guy tells me I can't have my dog in the couch and I get the ignorant like, you know, but [UNKNOWN]: I will say, I say this stuff from experience. [UNKNOWN]: It's not, it's not, it's not, you know, I'm not on the soapbox going. [UNKNOWN]: I don't think dogs should be on the couch or the bed.

[UNKNOWN]: I go, no, I just seen it over and over and over and over again. [UNKNOWN]: I'm like, it creates problems and people are like, well, when I tell my dog to get off, they get off and there's no issues. [UNKNOWN]: What do you think about tanker? [UNKNOWN]: Then there's no issues. [UNKNOWN]: There's no big deal.

[UNKNOWN]: They've got a blast, like, you're good. [UNKNOWN]: So anyway, yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, we, um, well, like my, at my house, I advocate for dogs to not be on the furniture, right? [UNKNOWN]: My, my lab is on the furniture. [UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm. [UNKNOWN]: She has zero behavior problems. [UNKNOWN]: So my, my manager, my training manager, Amanda came up with this great analogy she uses.

[UNKNOWN]: So we tell everybody when the dog is when dogs done training do what we do, take away all the dogs freedoms. [UNKNOWN]: So no free roaming in the house, no long periods of time outside in the fence in your by themselves, and no unearned affection. [UNKNOWN]: Stop, petting the dog like you're a villain and it's a white cat, right?

[UNKNOWN]: Get that dog off the furniture, have them late. [UNKNOWN]: And I tell people, if the dog's laying at your feet and you were truly the dog's leader there in love with that, they just want to be with you, right? [UNKNOWN]: So they're laying at your feet, everything's good. [UNKNOWN]: Things are great, the dog is literally perfect.

[UNKNOWN]: We call, then do what we call an allergy test. [UNKNOWN]: and just get into see what he's allergic to. [UNKNOWN]: Give him a freedom. [UNKNOWN]: Let him, you know, maybe not so much on place. [UNKNOWN]: Let him have a little bit of freedom in the house to kind of follow you around and roam around and see what he does.

[UNKNOWN]: If there's no behavioral problems, cool. [UNKNOWN]: And these are dogs that have had behavioral problems that we that we've cleared up. [UNKNOWN]: Then, um, put them on the couch. [UNKNOWN]: Let's see what happens. [UNKNOWN]: If he's on the couch and behavioral problems start again, that's your allergy.

[UNKNOWN]: Maybe it isn't, maybe it was the yard. [UNKNOWN]: Maybe it was too much time unsupervised. [UNKNOWN]: That type of thing. [UNKNOWN]: You will quickly see, but you have to be honest with yourself. [UNKNOWN]: And what are we doing? [UNKNOWN]: Oh, man, I haven't been putting him in the crate when I'm gone, you know, or whatever, or the couch.

[UNKNOWN]: And I even, I'll even negotiate with people where I think, [UNKNOWN]: The couch is worse than the bed, if the dog's not a resource guarder. [UNKNOWN]: So if the dogs on the couch, people sit and touch, touch, touch, touch, touch, touch. [UNKNOWN]: Like you guys, in us, we, every training company I know exploded in 2020.

[UNKNOWN]: Because people didn't know, they were nervous, they didn't know what the world was doing, but the new Tiger King was on for eight hours. [UNKNOWN]: And they sat on the couch and they took their six-year-old dog and touched them into insanity. [UNKNOWN]: A normal dog. [UNKNOWN]: And they're like, I don't know what happened.

[UNKNOWN]: Well, I know what happened. [UNKNOWN]: You created human touch that didn't exist and made an anxious mess from touching and talking to that dog the whole time. [UNKNOWN]: And so it's like, I tell them reset, factory reset, get everything squared away. [UNKNOWN]: You have to be honest with yourself and look in there and say, okay, they're well, this dog in and back to where I was talking about with the bed.

[UNKNOWN]: If the dogs in the bed and sleeping at your feet and you're not petting them and touching them, that might not be a problem. [UNKNOWN]: If the dogs are resource guard or of any kind, the beds of problem, it's a huge problem. [UNKNOWN]: I think that couch is worse than the bed when it comes to dogs like the if all things being equal because when you're sleeping, you're not touching them.

[UNKNOWN]: Now, if you're glomping and hugging that dog in between you and your spouse, you may have other problems in your life, in your relationship, but then you're gonna create, you know, all those problems. [UNKNOWN]: So dogs will choose. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you know, I just, I just tell people like, again, doctriners in general, when we put up content, write a book, we put on a podcast, a video, whatever.

[UNKNOWN]: It's because that problem existed. [UNKNOWN]: And we go, I should probably talk about this. [UNKNOWN]: It's not, you know, a lot of time. [UNKNOWN]: I don't know anybody that just goes, I'm going to make this shoot up, just to make somebody on the internet mad. [UNKNOWN]: It's because it happened.

[UNKNOWN]: I always tell people, it's like you go into a bathroom, and it says, no. [UNKNOWN]: Military boots in the toilet. [UNKNOWN]: You're like somebody actually did like no. [UNKNOWN]: These these policies don't exist like these SOPs do not exist And less than it happened. [UNKNOWN]: Let me know like if it does like we always have like the as trainers and even as business owners We have so many [UNKNOWN]: procedures because we've we deal with so many people and sometimes it's warranted we're like oh yeah we should have done that you know like the last probably two years we started weighing dogs every week when they come in when they leave because we had you know somebody gone so dog that has never been worked before ever like physically or mentally

E318- 21 Years Working With Dogs In One Podcast / Eric Stanbro

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