E320- Her Dog Was Herding Her Husband... IS This Appropriate?

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: You guys welcome back to the pod. [SPEAKER_00]: This is a session with a client. [SPEAKER_00]: It's been a couple of weeks since I've done a session with a client, but it's a good session with a client talking about really the issue that most people have. [SPEAKER_00]: And I really doubled down on it here and go over it.

0:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just the kind of like with the working line type of dog doing stuff that we don't like it to do, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of people. [SPEAKER_00]: have this issue with, like, my dog is doing dog stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: What do I do? [SPEAKER_00]: How do I stop it? [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, maybe you can't stop it, but here's what you can do alternatively.

0:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you guys so much for listening and enjoy this podcast and I'll talk to you in the next one. [SPEAKER_01]: I've had her since she was four months old. [SPEAKER_01]: She, so she was 12 and her litter. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know like the full, you know, story of what kind of went on before she came to me.

1:03 [SPEAKER_01]: But since we've had her, like I was fostering three puppies at the time that I had her, her and then two puppies from another litter. [SPEAKER_01]: And she's just always kind of struggled [SPEAKER_01]: Um, she, so when I first got her like if the other puppies had a toy, um, or a treat or whatever it might be, she would, you know, like lunge at them or whatever to try to get whatever they had that she wanted, um, in her possession.

1:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So she's, you know, she's had like the possessive type stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: So, um, after we learned kind of what was going on a little, um, we stopped leaving out toys and [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we just had to be very mindful when we were under their dogs wherever we might be, but in like since she's grown like she's she's she's been better, but she did she does still struggle with that sometimes and she so she's one of three dogs in my household now and she's the youngest and like her and.

2:09 [SPEAKER_01]: the oldest of the three, they will sometimes like go at it too, um, which and not always her fault because the the other one, she's a little dog, but she's, you know, a little dog or a big dog and a little dog's body. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so anyway, I mean, she will definitely antagonize tick us sometimes and it's like, oh, we don't want to do.

2:28 [SPEAKER_01]: But, um, but anyway, but I mean, if, you know, if tick are really tried to attack her, which they have gotten into it a few times and when they [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I would assume if Tickva wanted to kill her, she probably could, but I mean, she's never done that. [SPEAKER_01]: She'll just kind of like grab at her and like pin her to the ground.

2:49 [SPEAKER_01]: But the reason I'm calling you is because so the three of them usually go to daycare one day we equal this past Thursday. [SPEAKER_01]: The lady at daycare had just like pulled me aside and said, hey, I just want to let you know. [SPEAKER_01]: Tickford did have an incident today where one of the workers was standing there, Tickford was at her feet and another little dog was at her feet.

3:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And she bent down to pet the little dog and Tickford just kind of like froze and then just like attacks the little dog pinned her on the ground. [SPEAKER_01]: She said she didn't, you know, hurt her. [SPEAKER_01]: She had a little tiny scratch under her eye. [SPEAKER_01]: That was it. [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I mean, obviously, that's not okay.

3:25 [SPEAKER_01]: But, and I don't know what actually brought that on. [SPEAKER_01]: So, um, [SPEAKER_01]: I do think that she has, like, that she's probably part, Catahoo little leopard. [SPEAKER_01]: So I do think she has some, like, herding instincts in her. [SPEAKER_01]: Because she will do other things.

3:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, when I watch her with the other dogs, like, if they're, you know, like, say, reacting to a car or a dog walking by, tick bubble, kind of, like, go run to them and she'll kind of, like, nip at them to, you know, like, get them in line, or whatever you want to call it. [SPEAKER_01]: But, and she did do that recently too, to my husband, we were playing four square up at my parents' house, and just she was sitting on the couch, just like watching whatever, and then my husband just kind of like, you know, ran for the ball, and he was like running towards me.

4:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And she, like jumped off the couch, when over nipped his heel, then ran away. [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, I just, I mean, I don't want it to, you know, get to the next level where it's something that, [SPEAKER_01]: Now, we have no control over what happens, whether it's with a dog or a person or whatever, but anyway, so that's why I'm here.

4:35 [SPEAKER_00]: OK. [SPEAKER_00]: So how low does she? [SPEAKER_01]: Right now. [SPEAKER_01]: Four, four. [SPEAKER_00]: OK. And so the reaction towards the other dogs at daycare is that something that you're going to continue her with daycare? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that was my question for you because so when she told me that I said, okay, and she said she's not banned.

4:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to let you know. [SPEAKER_01]: She said, Missy, the little dog is usually the one that's the The problem that daycare because she's a little bully, but I just said, well, you know, in my mind, I said, okay, well, she's not going to take care anymore because I don't Dare to drop her off if I can't trust that she's going to behave and not, you know, try to attack another dog.

5:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would say that if the other, it seems like she's a pretty confident dog. [SPEAKER_00]: So I would say that if the other dog is a bully and then she's stuck up for herself, that's probably more than likely what happened. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, you know, obviously I don't know for sure, but that's probably more than likely what happened is she just stuck up for herself and snapped at the other dog.

5:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Dog in there that's causing issues so if they said that she's welcome to come back You know there's a good chance that she's that was an outlier situation and that the other dog probably started it So that's my two cents on that So the big the big questions that you have besides the daycare thing is the running and kind of reacting That's a new thing towards this at this point.

6:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It was your husband, but I'm sure it'll happen again [SPEAKER_00]: and then the reaction towards the other dogs. [SPEAKER_00]: It seems like that was a little bit more resource garden where she's trying to get things that she wants or she's kind of snappy towards other dogs if they approach when she has something I would assume.

6:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: But also like and it's been hard because like I'm used to having a household, you know, that has all dogs that get along. [SPEAKER_01]: Well since we've had her we can't let other dogs come into our house [SPEAKER_01]: She will do the same kind of thing as far as like nipping at them.

6:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And just, I mean, she's just she's on edge the whole time, like she just can't, you know, calm down and and then. [SPEAKER_01]: One time that we had my mother and mom's dog here, she had gone at the dog, you know, with the nipping and whatnot, but and then she also because she was so on edge she ended up attacking one of.

7:03 [SPEAKER_01]: my other dog. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was like, what is happening? [SPEAKER_01]: So from then, you know, we're like, she can't be around other dogs. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's odd because she is fine, you know, where she has been fine in the past at daycare, but, you know, at our own house or at our camp, she's just, I don't know, she's just more, I'm protective or I don't know.

7:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So what is your overall goal for today? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what are this very specific thing? [SPEAKER_00]: So I know for sure, so when you walk away from this conversation, you know that, you know, your questions have been answered. [SPEAKER_00]: What would you say your specifics are?

7:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to know like what I need to do to properly introduce her to other dogs like is there a chance that you know I could have other dogs or have her be around other dogs in my house in at camp or wherever we are without needing to work. [SPEAKER_01]: Can I do you know is there something I could do to help with that.

7:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And then how do you know how should I be responding in the situation where she is what I've. [SPEAKER_01]: feel like hurting or when she's doing the nipping thing with people, what do I need to do to kind of like either nip that on the bottom, whatever, correct it in whatever way. [SPEAKER_01]: And then it's far just the other dogs in the house, like what do I, and I mean, and I'll be honest, like I don't have like, yes, they, you know, they know different commands and whatnot, but sometimes [SPEAKER_01]: You don't mind me as well as should.

8:32 [SPEAKER_01]: But what do I need to do, I guess, to get household order so that maybe she feels more calm in the house with the other dogs? [SPEAKER_01]: I would like to not have to be so stressed out myself. [SPEAKER_01]: So whatever you can guide me on as far as how can I relax enough to let the three of them be themselves and be not beyond guard all the time.

8:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So, and there's three dogs altogether, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: And she's the youngest. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So, what type of training have you done with them so far? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, just like the normal kind of, you know, sit, stay like when they eat, they have to [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, nothing like over the top, you know, just normal, things that any, any like beginner.

9:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we have, we have the basic and beginner obedience on them. [SPEAKER_00]: That's, that's good. [SPEAKER_00]: And then the, so the intro to, so here's the thing that I'm thinking is to your point when you were kind of trying to isolate the issue. [SPEAKER_00]: If a dog goes to daycare and [SPEAKER_00]: plays well with dogs for the most part and has been for a long time.

9:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Things they consider are your relationship with the dog could be the trigger or it could be just a really environmental resource guarding issue which means she gets more protective and more reactive at home and around the things that she cares about which is very common. [SPEAKER_00]: Having a dog, having a random dog that she doesn't know enter her home is typically there is a process that you have to do.

10:28 [SPEAKER_00]: There's like a layering process that most people have to do to make sure that it's not abrupt and it's not too overwhelming. [SPEAKER_00]: So commonly people will take quite a bit of time acclimating the dogs before they just let them go into the house. [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you can get lucky.

10:44 [SPEAKER_00]: But I would say nine times out of ten, when you have a dog that doesn't know another dog, there is a chance of conflict to just throw them into the house. [SPEAKER_00]: That's very... [SPEAKER_00]: I guess, yeah, you just get really lucky if there isn't issues there because that is a very, like, overwhelming thing, especially with a dog that has some territorial issues.

11:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's something that I would be considering is how you guys are introducing the dogs into your pack, if you will. [SPEAKER_00]: His a big consideration on whether or not this is going to be successful or not. [SPEAKER_00]: Just because, like I said, nine times out of ten, that's a conflict waiting to happen.

11:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And then again, like it could be a relationship, which is more common than most things, meaning if we have a dog that only reacts when you're around, that's your, that's more of your relationship as an issue and that's something that you'll have to work on because the dog is. [SPEAKER_00]: telling you very clearly that when there's other dogs around there's no issues, but when you're around in there's other dog there's issues.

11:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's something that you'll have to try to isolate, meaning take the house out of the situation and if she's still reactive. [SPEAKER_00]: with you and other dogs, or yeah, I think reactive. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a good word for it. [SPEAKER_00]: Then that's just a good indicator that you are the trigger.

12:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is pretty common. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, it's just, it's all relationship based at that point. [SPEAKER_00]: And every dog is different. [SPEAKER_00]: They respond to different things, just like humans do. [SPEAKER_00]: So that could be something to look at. [SPEAKER_00]: And then the hurting behavior again, so the reason why I asked you about your basic obedience is because a lot of the hurting type of behavior, if you feel like it's like a catahool, a type of hurting cataly type of thing, which is pretty normal for those types of dogs, then your obedience is going to be your the lever you're going to be pulling.

12:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Meaning you're not going to try to stop the dog from, you know, being a hurting dog, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So if somebody's moving running, et cetera, and the dog kind of lights up, like, Oh, this is fun. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go chase a nip like she has been. [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be, you could, you can discourage it, but at the end of the day, you should really be depending on your obedience for that, which you don't, you know, so you don't have that level of obedience right now, so if she runs off-lation, Chase is something that she finds.

13:14 [SPEAKER_00]: fascinating or she's intrigued in like you know anybody running I guess that's where your obedience comes in so that would be kind of like my my first like shoot at the hip advice for you is you have to have more advanced obedience to counter some of the hurting behavior because you're not just if it is instinctual you're not just going to get rid of it and delete it because it's an instinctual [SPEAKER_00]: But the management side of using obedience is the proper way to handle that.

13:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so let's say, you know, again, just the incident that you had with your husband kind of running, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So the dog, the chase is anything really that runs or another dog or whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: So your husband runs away and then your dog lights up with this instinctual [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and then runs up and just is nippy.

14:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So that, and I don't know for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: You wouldn't only know if if you feel like that's instinctual because it doesn't typically dogs, they do herd out of other instinct, but, but typically because you're, you're kind of saying that this is like a working herding type of dog.

14:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It probably makes more sense that, [SPEAKER_00]: It's just hurting. [SPEAKER_00]: Some dogs will do it when they're nervous and insecure in the house, so like somebody who's leaving or even somebody that comes in, the dog will kind of swoop around and push the person around. [SPEAKER_00]: But again, even at that point, it's insecurity tied with genetics.

14:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's just kind of like what the dog does. [SPEAKER_00]: Like a German Shepherd will bark when they're nervous. [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes hurting dogs will hurt when they're nervous, or they don't have to do, you know. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's going to be a building out your obedience portion, so right now you have like the basics, but building out your obedience is absolutely going to be like your next step because essentially what it is is, hey, I have this challenge and then at the end of the day objectively it's I don't have the skill sets to accomplish this challenge, right?

15:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like I need to pass this test. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to school, I'm taking my bar, I'm taking my nursing exam, whatever it is, I need to pass this test, it's a serious thing. [SPEAKER_00]: But you don't have the skill sets yet, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So you're going to fail that test every time, unless you build up the skill sets in the knowledge and experience to be successful at that.

15:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So that way, when you sit down and you take that test, you know exactly what to do and how to handle it. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I would be doing for the hurting type of behavior. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but so is there a certain, like, you know, when you talk about like a training, like is there a certain type of training [SPEAKER_00]: Well, type would be more like what you should be training would be the recall and the and I mean the high level recall will stop the it'll counter their hurting like completely so let's say you know you're in a situation where like you said you're kind of like hanging out with family outside whatever.

16:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, somebody or something takes off and she's like, she kicks into the her hurting drive. [SPEAKER_00]: You would then pull that lever of recall. [SPEAKER_00]: So the type of training, um, I guess would have to be defined. [SPEAKER_00]: But the reality is is right now you don't your dog doesn't have the skill sets to accomplish the goal that you want.

16:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So if your husband's running in your dog's chasing, you could yell and scream and clap your hands and do whatever you can. [SPEAKER_00]: The dog's not going to listen because they don't really know what you want. [SPEAKER_00]: So you're going to fail that test. [SPEAKER_00]: So it would be getting, so again, recall would be, let's just say if your dog would come back to you every time you call it the first time, that that would stop the hurting as long as you're there.

17:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you said, come, the dog would turn around and come back to you, and that would be so, so again, just to reiterate whenever we're dealing with hurting or this very Prager than type of really any very instinctual hard-wired behavior likely this is what that is. [SPEAKER_00]: I try not to tell a fish not to swim and be like, hey, I don't want you to ever do that again.

17:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably going to happen. [SPEAKER_00]: So I try not to like suppress that too much. [SPEAKER_00]: What I really do is I work on advanced obedience. [SPEAKER_00]: So I have a dog. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a lot of people who have any type of working dog within them. [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of their responsibility to have advanced obedience because you have a Ferrari that will fire up at any moment.

17:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it'll just go. [SPEAKER_00]: So you're thinking of your other dogs and dogs that you've fostered or dogs that you've had in the past and all the dogs that have lived in the house, it's like, well, they didn't require really much and it's like, well, it just depends on what type of dog you have, right?

17:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So something that you mentioned earlier is like, you've always been able to have like an open door dogs can come and go with no issues, but [SPEAKER_00]: It's not even necessarily the fact that you have a potential working dog on your hands, although that could contribute to some of the issues that you're having, right?

18:14 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not your average pet that's just like, yeah, the golden retriever energy type of thing, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Where it's not like yeah, I'm a super social dog my life is just be happy and see other people happy There's other dogs that are like man. [SPEAKER_00]: I take life when we're seriously have a job You guys are you guys are silly get out of my face.

18:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm snappy. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm I'm short tempered You know, I don't have as much patience kind of like an old senior dog. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot how like [SPEAKER_00]: Working dogs will do their tolerance. [SPEAKER_00]: It's very short. [SPEAKER_00]: They're snappy. [SPEAKER_00]: You know that sort of thing.

18:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway You would be working on the rec, really anything to to control the dog like I have a working line. [SPEAKER_00]: Shut up, or if I didn't have good obedience with her, she'd be a nightmare because she's constantly wanting to play and She has a crazy drive for much and I can control her all day every day because of my skill sets.

19:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So I can say place boom down boom, stay boom [SPEAKER_00]: So if your dog doesn't have the skill sets, you really can't get into a situation where she's doing something that you want her to do and have never practiced it, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So recall, you know, just, I mean, as far as like the type of training, again, it's like recall 101, just teaching her the levels of recall.

19:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So it would be, [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of long-line work, so you get her into a non-distracted environment, say her name, tell her to come. [SPEAKER_00]: If she doesn't, don't repeat it. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the huge mistake a lot of people make. [SPEAKER_00]: Is they beg their dog to do stuff, which then could hurt your relationship.

19:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So we see that often. [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times, dog owners will say, like, Tom, you said that my relationship with my dog can make them reactive or fearful or insecure. [SPEAKER_00]: How? [SPEAKER_00]: Why? [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't make any sense. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's pretty simple.

19:53 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the substitute, I call it the substitute teacher effect, where if you have a substitute teacher in that doesn't know what they're doing, or They don't, you know, The lack for better words have a backbone, right? [SPEAKER_00]: You can just kind of walk all over them. [SPEAKER_00]: The dog realizes pretty quick that I don't have to respect you.

20:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have to listen to you and everything is on my terms. [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's, that's a good way to lose the classroom really quickly, if you will. [SPEAKER_00]: So with a dog, it's very, very, very similar. [SPEAKER_00]: And again, some dogs, you could get away with that. [SPEAKER_00]: Or they're like, oh, you want me to come?

20:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, I love you. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm coming. [SPEAKER_00]: Other dogs, they're like, I have stuff to do. [SPEAKER_00]: So don't, like, I don't have time for this. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, don't, I'm sniffing. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm chasing whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: So the recall would be long line, dog's name, come, or here, whatever you want to use.

20:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And then if the dog doesn't, we pop the leash. [SPEAKER_00]: We pop the collar on the long line to correct the dog like it. [SPEAKER_00]: Talking to you basically and then the dog starts to walk back to you. [SPEAKER_00]: You back pedal You kind of I call it sucking your dog in so you're targeting your dog.

20:52 [SPEAKER_00]: You're sucking them in with your body Like a vortex type of thing and then they get to you and then you pay them But again the the big problem a lot of dog owners make is they The two big problem stug owners make when they introduce any new behavior is they do it completely off leash which is You're gonna fail like off-leash is the point you want your working towards [SPEAKER_00]: Right, you're still studying.

21:16 [SPEAKER_00]: You shouldn't be taking the test yet. [SPEAKER_00]: And then what and then what happens is Dog owners then repeat themselves quite often and they beg the dog to do it. [SPEAKER_00]: Right, so they say. [SPEAKER_00]: Come or Whatever, he'll sit whatever and then the dog doesn't do it and then they go come come on They start snapping and clicking and dancing and running and it's just this whole thing.

21:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So and that's a great way to tell a pretty serious dog that [SPEAKER_00]: Oh shit. [SPEAKER_00]: They don't know what they're doing. [SPEAKER_00]: They're a substitute teacher. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to roll right over them. [SPEAKER_00]: The worst case scenario is they're just going to, you know, they're going to they're going to ask me again, you know?

21:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, so that's kind of like getting into the weeds a little bit, but it is pretty important because again, if you let a, I don't even know what caliber dog it is, but even if you just have like a halfway working dog, if you let them take advantage of you, if you have to repeat yourself multiple times, if you have to, [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, coax them to do stuff, that's the best way to get a pretty, or even semi-serious dog to realize I can do what I want.

22:18 [SPEAKER_00]: But then what ends up happening, because you might be wondering how your relationship could make a dog more reactive and fearful, then what happens is the dog who realizes like, oh crap, this person doesn't how to drive this car, you know, fly this plane, like, I gotta do it. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what happens is like the roles reverse where you get a pretty serious dog, [SPEAKER_00]: a dog that has purpose, a dog that's supposed to be working, but isn't they realize that their leader or you, the owner, doesn't know what they're doing through what I was just talking about and then they start doing things.

22:51 [SPEAKER_00]: They start reacting. [SPEAKER_00]: They start being insecure because they just don't have the leadership that they need. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's how all that kind of self perpetuates into this whole issue, where you have a really nervous and insecure nervous dog taking the wheel when they don't want to because the lack of foundation and structure from the owner.

23:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So the dog loves you, cares about you, but we've proven to them over and over again. [SPEAKER_00]: We have no idea what we're doing and then they kind of go into panic mode. [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's just, um, so there's, and it's not, it's usually not binary.

23:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It's usually not like you've done all of this. [SPEAKER_00]: It's usually just like a combination of a perfect storm of, yeah, this, this makes sense. [SPEAKER_00]: So my suggestion would be specifically with her is really build your, your training up from the ground up. [SPEAKER_00]: So that would be, again, obviously recall is, is a great thing to have.

23:54 [SPEAKER_00]: But I would be [SPEAKER_00]: if I were to like put it down on paper it would be working on recall without any distractions. [SPEAKER_00]: So side yard garage basement like whenever you can get kind of just you and her. [SPEAKER_00]: And a long line, or even a retractable, if you have it, and you say your name, tell her to come if she doesn't, you pop the collar, she comes to you, you tell her good.

24:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And you start getting into this routine, because what happens with dogs in the very beginning when you've allowed them to kind of do what they want without a lot of structure, they aren't used to responding to you, unless they, you know, are in a situation where you're doing the thresholds and the impulse control for the food.

24:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So you put your food bowl down. [SPEAKER_00]: You tell your dog to stay. [SPEAKER_00]: They're sitting there perfectly angel and you say break That kind of sometimes can get people into trouble. [SPEAKER_00]: It is good thresholds and it is good boundaries and it is good and pulse control.

24:44 [SPEAKER_00]: It's great However, a lot of people think that because you can do that that your dog listens to you everywhere else When in the reality is is the dog is listening to you because they know at the end of the day There's a pot of rite of gold at the end of that [SPEAKER_00]: So they're like, I'll listen to you because I know within the next 10 seconds you're going to release me to my food.

25:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So it really makes it a selfish game for the dog. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So, so you just kind of go back down to the drawing board where long line, leash, collar, et cetera, dog com, no correction. [SPEAKER_00]: The dog comes to you good. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't pay the dog with food if you have to correct because it means that they, they didn't do the full thing.

25:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you want them to really understand when they turn and come to you without any corrections or that any leash or any pressure. [SPEAKER_00]: That's when you jackpot them. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you slowly start to build it up. [SPEAKER_00]: So again, non-destructive environment. [SPEAKER_00]: Once the dog figures out, if I come to you, I get fully paid.

25:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Right? [SPEAKER_00]: So they get the jackpot at that point, good job. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you pay the dog with two or three pieces of food, you give the dog a break. [SPEAKER_00]: And you just wrap that out for a couple of days, then you make it a little bit harder, so then you maybe go outside to a more distracted environment where we're sniffing all sorts of different stuff, you know, whatever's out there in the world for dogs, and you work through that.

26:02 [SPEAKER_00]: and the objective would be after a debt, you know, after each training day would be you asking the dog to do behavior without any pressure, the dog comes to you and you pay the dog. [SPEAKER_00]: So the dog just needs to know that when you say come, if they come they get paid and if they don't not only do they not get paid but they also get corrected and there's accountability for it.

26:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And then eventually you get to the point where you start recreating the scene where your husband's running around. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you work through those situations. [SPEAKER_00]: So then that way, when you actually need to apply this skill set, you've seen the picture over and over again, and so is the dog.

26:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead, because if you don't, you're just shooting in the dark. [SPEAKER_00]: You're basically, you're only other option is to run and catch your dog and put them on a leash and bring it back to you, which is not realistic, in my opinion. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's kind of like the step by step process.

26:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And copy and paste that with any behavior, place, heal, et cetera. [SPEAKER_00]: You start very minimally in a clinical environment, and then you start to build it up. [SPEAKER_00]: And the objective would be, [SPEAKER_00]: Another thing that we see all the time is like, my dog freaks out when people come over and I'm like, well, again.

27:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Same, yeah, it's a very common thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Same thing for you, though, is like, listen, I'm not going to try to teach my dogs not to care about that because you're going to be. [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be a very frustrating world for you because your dog is always going to care about that.

27:27 [SPEAKER_00]: But the goal is is for you to say go to your bed and the dogs go. [SPEAKER_00]: So you're countering every time that you want your dog to stop something, you should be asking your dog to do something. [SPEAKER_00]: I just say that as a mantra to dog owners, when I do seminars or I do lives with thousands of people, I just say, ask yourself this, anything in your head right now that you want your dog to stop doing?

27:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Almost, almost always guaranteed. [SPEAKER_00]: There's an, there's an ask to be had. [SPEAKER_00]: So your dog rushes the door tell your dog to place. [SPEAKER_00]: But here's the thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the caveat. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of people don't have the skill sets to accomplish those goals with their dog.

28:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why they end up in this perpetuating [SPEAKER_00]: frustration thing they're online they're buying courses they're like trying to stop things and it's like you know it's kind of like losing weight it's like you're trying to just eat better and work out those are the single ingredients to you know weight loss or feeling better whatever the heck it is right or like you know getting more money it's like well first of all you know you have to focus right there's got to be a strategy here so anyway so [SPEAKER_00]: So think about that just in general for your dog is any time you want them to stop doing something.

28:38 [SPEAKER_00]: There's always an ask, and 99% of people that I talk to don't have the ask. [SPEAKER_00]: So then they sit in this frustrated bubble, almost their whole life with their dog, because they're trying to stop something inevitably that's going to happen. [SPEAKER_00]: My dog barks at the front door.

28:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care about that as much as when I tell my dog to go to their bed and down and stay. [SPEAKER_00]: That de-escalates the whole situation and I can control that because I can practice it with my dog So that's what I that's so just in general. [SPEAKER_01]: You should be focusing on those sorts of skills So do you think it's something that um, you know, because she does like Respond to the other dogs in the house like do Should I be spending the one on one time with each of them every day to try to Get all of them to be in the same spot or [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it depends on if you want them to learn.

29:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's the same thing if you were to put it like, if you have three different kids, it's like, should I be, should I be teaching them all things? [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, if you, you know, if you want them to all learn, yeah, I mean, and it sounds silly when I say it, right?

29:41 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, you have course, like one kid can't, you know? [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same thing for dogs though, like it's the same exact thing, when you have multiple dogs you have to spend individual time with them to teach them the skills because they're not just going to learn it out of like a like osmosis formality, although there is, again, like I was talking about these like facades that dog owner see is if you recall one of the dogs, the other dogs will follow, but again, the facades there is is the other dogs don't probably know the specific word, they just are following because they're like, [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

30:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, my answer is yes, you want to whenever you have three dogs, five dogs, two dogs, or one dog, you always want to individually teach the skill sets to the, you know, it's like a football team. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like just because one person went to training camp doesn't mean the whole, you know, everyone else just learns, they all have to individually learn and work hard and and be coached through it.

30:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I would recommend is and and again, it's like, [SPEAKER_00]: Some dogs are going to be, you should spend more time with because of the, again, the genetic disposition, the risks, you know, if you have to do other dogs that are like the friendliest happiest dogs in the world.

30:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's, that's, sometimes a big issue for people is because their dogs are so friendly, a lot of people just feel like I don't need training. [SPEAKER_00]: you know, you just get lucky with temperament. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's good. [SPEAKER_00]: Your dog is not going to mall somebody, but they still don't have a good relationship with you and they still need to listen to you when you ask them to do stuff, you know?

31:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, but yeah, I would be definitely spending the time with them. [SPEAKER_00]: And my my my my five basics, you know, not for nothing just so you know, is like the place command. [SPEAKER_00]: So being able to send send your dog to a target is [SPEAKER_00]: I pull that lever, that's the command I use the most in my own house, just because it kind of takes the wind out of every problem with a dog, whether it's rushing the door, the kids are eating or we have Amazon driver or whatever the heck it is, or you have people over and like yesterday my dog whacked it, drink off the tape, whatever.

31:50 [SPEAKER_00]: The place command is a really awesome thing to have, [SPEAKER_00]: But it also is just great for impulse control. [SPEAKER_00]: The same thing you're doing with the food, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So the dog is sitting there like in their chops. [SPEAKER_00]: You put the food down. [SPEAKER_00]: They're looking at you.

32:04 [SPEAKER_00]: They're looking at the bowl. [SPEAKER_00]: They're looking at you. [SPEAKER_00]: You're looking at the bowl and then you say break. [SPEAKER_00]: So similar, where you just say go to your bed or your place or your touch or whatever you want to call it. [SPEAKER_00]: And the dog will go there and tell you then release the dog with a break command.

32:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's just it's great for your relationship because your dogs are it's just like well-behaved kids He's just sitting there just patiently waiting to the ground. [SPEAKER_00]: That's that makes life easier It's like yeah versus the alternative of crazy non-stop dangerous You know like nervous system breaking down constantly crazy if you just teach the dog bed Stay then you can [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, come on in and your dog's going to stay there.

32:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Now again, you have to get to that. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to happen overnight. [SPEAKER_00]: You have to build it up, but anyway, the heel command, so the dog walking at your heels in motion, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So we're out for a walk. [SPEAKER_00]: I say, heel again, super, super has a lot of utility because not many people like to get dragged on the road, but I think most importantly, [SPEAKER_00]: it's really telling on your relationship with your dog.

33:05 [SPEAKER_00]: If you can go out and ask your dog to walk in slow motion for a block or two, that means that your dog is respect you, listen to you, are engaged with you, understand you. [SPEAKER_00]: And then of course you give them a break and then they can be able to have a break. [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of people get overwhelmed by that because they feel like they have to heal their dog, whole walk.

33:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not at all, that's not what you should be doing. [SPEAKER_00]: But when you ask your dog to heal, they should be able to walk right next to you on a loose leash and tell you then release something given a break. [SPEAKER_00]: So there's the place, the break, the recall. [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously you didn't even dog back to you.

33:41 [SPEAKER_00]: The break command in general. [SPEAKER_00]: So the break command is pretty new to most people when I say it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's dish the free command. [SPEAKER_00]: It just means you're done. [SPEAKER_00]: So if I tell a dog to place and stay, [SPEAKER_00]: What command do I have to say, okay, now you get off.

33:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of people what they do is they just make this really gray area of like, yeah, they'll get off when they get off. [SPEAKER_00]: They've, they've already done good. [SPEAKER_00]: They've been placing for 20 minutes, but I like to have more structure. [SPEAKER_00]: So I just have the break command, which is like free.

34:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So the place, the heal, the recall, the, the, the, the break command. [SPEAKER_00]: And then the stay command, which is pretty much usually intertwined with the place. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's place stay, and then you can walk away and pretty much do anything. [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, those are just my favorite commands to have.

34:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So with the place command, do you like, is it confusing for a dog? [SPEAKER_01]: So you know, if I say place like, so right now, they all know the place where they always each eat. [SPEAKER_01]: But like if I wanted to do like what you're saying and have them, you know, if somebody comes to the door and I say, please, like how many different places can I tell them to go?

34:48 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like what's what's going to be the most easy to understand? [SPEAKER_01]: or comprehend for them, trying to learn it. [SPEAKER_01]: Like does it, do they have one more than one place? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, a good question. [SPEAKER_00]: And you can simply, you can change it to something else, but I think if you already have established the places a targeted area that they go before the eat, I think that's the huge, huge benefit.

35:15 [SPEAKER_00]: you have a lot of advantages because they already know like basically go to your mark, they already understand that. [SPEAKER_00]: So then what you would do is, um, so you'd put one of them on a leash and you train them separately. [SPEAKER_00]: So if what do you use, like is it a bed? [SPEAKER_01]: it's one of them will get on the couch and then one's on the rug and the other one's on a different rug.

35:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, to answer your question, yes, you can have different places and the way that you advance those out is you teach the dog with multiple places in the room. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is you take the leash and then your treat bag or your treat pouch or whatever treats in general food, [SPEAKER_00]: And then you just start pointing at these things.

35:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is where you die what we call diversify the command So you will diversify the place command by teaching the dog that they have to place on other things and You can point at those things the only I Don't know I guess Harry situation you might run into is if you diversify your commands in the same room [SPEAKER_00]: that all the dogs are going to their places.

36:15 [SPEAKER_00]: You might get like double place stuff where two dogs might hop on a couch cushion or two dogs might hop on the the the the rugs, but that's it's not a huge deal because your dogs don't hate each other. [SPEAKER_00]: So [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but yeah, you can diversify them and, you know, at the end of the day, it's the it's the end of the day you've already got like such a good head start because it places essentially what you've already doing.

36:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I want you to go here and stay here for this thing, which is in this case food. [SPEAKER_00]: So all you have to do is make sure the dog knows that they go there and stay there and then you would pay the dog in position instead of releasing the dog to the bull. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So in this case, I would change it just a little bit for you.

36:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So when you say place with one dog and they go to their place, they're like, well, it's not dinner time. [SPEAKER_00]: This is this is great. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to eat dinner earlier, whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: Then you would go and pay the dog in position. [SPEAKER_00]: So you would go and pay cable or pay treats when the dog is sitting on their place.

37:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And normalize the dog staying in that position and then using the break command as a break and you could start the break command pretty much whatever you What whatever command you used to break them to the dish. [SPEAKER_00]: You would use as a break because you've already established it Um [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and then what about so like with healing.

37:39 [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, I do have like the Martin deal color have the plastic prom colors. [SPEAKER_01]: I have the, um, oh my gosh, the [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, I'm bringing cramping the, um, you know, E-colour, the stock call, yeah, an E-colour, do you have some croc? [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, an E-colour. [SPEAKER_01]: What would you use as far as like doing heal?

38:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you practice on the prom color? [SPEAKER_01]: Would you practice with the E-colour? [SPEAKER_01]: What would you do? [SPEAKER_00]: great question. [SPEAKER_00]: So it really just depends on where you're at with the training where the dogs are. [SPEAKER_00]: So just to give you quick little rundown, typically when we get new dogs, when we get puppies, we teach them the behavior first.

38:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So we shape and mold with food and really no punishment at all. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just teaching the dog, you know. [SPEAKER_00]: But then as they grow older and get stronger than we kind of shape with a little bit of tools. [SPEAKER_00]: But when you have an adult dog, [SPEAKER_00]: who either A doesn't know the behavior at all or B knows the behavior but knows they can also just push through it if they want because they're not hungry at that moment then you start using equipment that is appropriate for them and it really is predicated off of their sensitivity so if you have all those things you would just use whatever they respond to.

39:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you put up you know [SPEAKER_00]: a slip leash on, for an example, and you start the heel in the dog's choking and pulling through it. [SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me, you should move to something else. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: You just want something that the dog responds to. [SPEAKER_00]: But, but I would say this.

39:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And my experience, most dogs who, or if you ask a dog to do something, most dogs don't understand it really that well. [SPEAKER_00]: We just kind of, um, again, it's like the sit thing like dogs are taught to sit with the hand gesture. [SPEAKER_00]: So when you actually say the word sit without the hand gesture, they don't do it.

39:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's, so we call that like the queue. [SPEAKER_00]: So what does the queue for the dog to, you know, somebody may say, that's your queue. [SPEAKER_00]: Like that, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: So when you ask a dog to do something, usually the queue is for the dog to understand, like, oh, that's my queue to sit or down or stay.

39:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And typically it's the words that we use. [SPEAKER_00]: So we say down, the dog, oh, that's my queue to go into a down. [SPEAKER_00]: We say sit, that's my queue to sit. [SPEAKER_00]: Most often times people, unfortunately, use the queue with the hand gesture of the food. [SPEAKER_00]: And so it really, I don't like when people do that just because the actual word sit doesn't mean anything to the dog and so now you can't use it when you need it.

40:15 [SPEAKER_00]: The dog has to be facing you looking at you and then you have to have food in your hand. [SPEAKER_00]: And the dog has to want your food more than whatever else is going on around you, which is not ideal because now you're just playing like an economics game there, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, so my point is is I think just with not just you but most of my clients when we start talking about like what tool should I use to correct this out the other thing or handle or communicate.

40:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really important to also make sure that the dog knows the behavior, make sure that that's established. [SPEAKER_00]: So I kind of go back to the drawing board for everything for most people because they think their dog knows these things and they don't. [SPEAKER_00]: So again, like reestablishing the heel inside with one dog at a time, reestablishing, etc.

40:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, with three dogs, you could probably get it done in a month and have everybody shaped up and looking good. [SPEAKER_00]: So to me, it's less about the equipment and it's more about the fundamentals. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: And what about, um, so like, [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so getting them shaped up in a month like how much time do you think I have to spend with each of them per day in order to get that kind of result.

41:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, good question. [SPEAKER_00]: To answer it, I would say, you know, like four to five sessions a day, but, you know, 10 minute sessions, five minute sessions, like just whenever you can get it in, but it just depends, you know, and how much time you have throughout the day and what the dogs are.

41:43 [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, a lot of people get overwhelmed with, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: that even if I said two minutes a day six times with three it's three dogs so it's a lot of work so no matter you know no matter how way you cut it it's like man I got three dogs it's like yeah yeah I just I just worked with um a gal that has five dogs and she was like kind of overwhelmed and I'm like well listen if you had five angels [SPEAKER_00]: in your house.

42:05 [SPEAKER_00]: All dogs rangeals. [SPEAKER_00]: It wouldn't matter. [SPEAKER_00]: You still have five dogs to work with. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, even if they all listen, it's still a lot of work, you know? [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I mean, and you'll notice, you know, just like with kids, like you'll notice, like, okay, this dog needs a little bit more tensioner work on this.

42:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't, it's not going to take you too long. [SPEAKER_00]: I just ten minute sessions would be ideal each dog. [SPEAKER_00]: And then again like you have to like look at which dogs are causing you the most stressed and those are the dogs that you work with the most often like if you like I only have time for one session You're gonna grab the dog that needs it the most, you know.

42:48 [SPEAKER_00]: But you'll snap into it really quick too because you're going to become much better at it. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think ultimately going back to just the behavior of her, when you're introducing dogs into the home and I know you're currently not, like just doing it differently where you, because even if you, okay, Tom, I worked on place and stay in my dog did great.

43:11 [SPEAKER_00]: even if you just let a random dog into the house just run around like crazy, it's still gonna create tension. [SPEAKER_00]: So specifically with her, I would do a at least meet and greet outside, well before you just invite the dog into the house. [SPEAKER_00]: So you can acclimate the dogs better.

43:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, again, the hurting behavior or something that I wouldn't try to eliminate because it's that's just probably baked into the dog. [SPEAKER_00]: You should be working on your obedience making sure that you can control and manage the dog more than anything. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, is there anything that like I should be telling the daycare?

43:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, if I am working on the the recall and to help with that, like, [SPEAKER_01]: But, I mean, I don't know is there anything they need to know as far as if it truly is a hurting instinct that, you know, is part of the problem. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a great question. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I would just, I would just have an honest conversation with them and just say, like, is she enjoying this?

44:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, is she have fun at take care? [SPEAKER_00]: I have a daycare. [SPEAKER_00]: And there's dogs who don't have a good time, like after they're like, sometimes we give them a week to see, sometimes they come out of their shell. [SPEAKER_00]: But the first thing I would be asking is like, hey, does she enjoy this?

44:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Because some people are like, they just let the dogs sit in the corner and and be pissed. [SPEAKER_00]: See the whole time, you know, we don't, but some people do like, as they just want the money. [SPEAKER_00]: But we have a waiting list for like the current. [SPEAKER_00]: So we are always just like, this isn't fun for them, you know, go to a dog walker.

44:39 [SPEAKER_00]: or something else. [SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe find somebody, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, so that's the first question I would ask, if she's kind of snappy and not super social, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just guessing, then she might not be having fun in general, but if they say no, no, no, no, she plays, she just, you know, she's sticks to her guns, because that's what it had been.

44:57 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the other dog who's kind of like witchy in there, and she like basically was like, you know, screw you and then they had a little [SPEAKER_00]: And that's we love when that happens because it's like, oh, the, you know, the bully got bullied and sometimes that's what you need. [SPEAKER_00]: Which is nice.

45:14 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's the first question I would ask. [SPEAKER_00]: And then as far as like training goes, I wouldn't really be dogs are so smart that they know when like if your dog is going to daycare. [SPEAKER_00]: The only thing that I ever like would tell my clients on. [SPEAKER_00]: for training like or anything that we would work on as daycare handlers training wise is just like the pulling in the leash when you come and pick up the dog because it's just like I don't want your dog drag in me up here and this is dangerous so I would highly say can we work on heal or can you work on heal because this is that but dogs no pretty good like [SPEAKER_00]: When you tell your dog to do something versus a daycare person, it's completely different scenarios and environments, so I really wouldn't put too much on them.

45:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I would just, you could tell them, like, oh, I'm really working on, you know, and they may say, oh, quite cool. [SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of the stuff that you're working on at home and like that private setting isn't nothing really that you would apply in a daycare setting where it's just controlled, controlled chaos.

46:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to think of what else with her specifically. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the whole car ride thing, but same kind of thing in the car. [SPEAKER_01]: Like when the other dog started freaking out, then she will start sniffing and sometimes she will bark too. [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, is there any pointers that you can give as far as like being in the car?

46:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So they do have harnesses for in the car. [SPEAKER_01]: And I do, they are on seat belt. [SPEAKER_01]: Just to try to, I don't know, just control it a little bit more because, you know, otherwise it's just a free for all and they're just going nuts and bark in and it's like, oh my word you guys.

47:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And just not listening, which I know that comes back to me with the training, but is there anything like specific that would help all of us when we're in the car together for them to. [SPEAKER_01]: not be looking out the window, you know, for the next dog, the bar cat or person. [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

47:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, good question. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's definitely a little bit of control because right now, if you really audit how much control you have, you'll probably come to the finding of like, yeah, I need to put in a little bit more work if I want better results. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's just with really anything in life, you know, it's like, man, I want to do this, but it's like, yeah, we don't show up.

47:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, it's like whatever, you know. [SPEAKER_00]: So, so there's that, but then, but then there's also, like, again, [SPEAKER_00]: off leash and they're in the back of the car you have to ask yourself okay how long have they been doing this meaning from a training standpoint like I always ask like how long of your dogs been doing this because that's going to predicate how I approach this and my realities of how this is going to go right so if you're like oh well they've been doing this since I've gotten them for the last three to four years [SPEAKER_00]: That's like okay, this is gonna be like a very abrupt change to if they've been freaking out their whole lives in the back of the car And all of a sudden you're like, you can't that's gonna be a pretty abrupt change for him So we have to be mindful of that second thing would be again like Auditing and asking yourself I want my dogs to knock it off.

48:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I want my dogs to basically leave it. [SPEAKER_00]: It would be the command [SPEAKER_00]: If I asked my dog to leave it on the leash on a training collar, would they leave it? [SPEAKER_00]: And typically people in your shoes are like, well, no, because we haven't really worked on leave it.

48:42 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, so you want your dogs to do something that they don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: So like you said, like, that's definitely a training thing. [SPEAKER_00]: They're not just, again, dogs get excited. [SPEAKER_00]: They get stimulated. [SPEAKER_00]: They're in the back of this tin car that is bringing them to either daycare or their park or [SPEAKER_00]: a fun place, the in-laws, whatever it is, they're going somewhere that they're excited about.

49:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So when you put them into this little tin can and go, they're fired up. [SPEAKER_00]: So for me, it's, again, how well do they, you know, the same thing with kids. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, all of a sudden, you want them to learn algebra, and they don't know anything about it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's very difficult for them to go, okay?

49:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, they'd have to know what you're asking, but you would take them individually as what you would do. [SPEAKER_00]: So I typically, again, this is crash course and a lot of times you have to go crash course when your dog has developed these things into adulthood. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not like, again, a puppy.

49:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Like a puppy, I would say, if you got all three of these dogs as puppies, I would say start with great training. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, each of them or whatever in the back, so that way they learn how to settle in the back, they learn to become. [SPEAKER_00]: We also are going to be working in the leave it command.

49:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we're going to be advancing our obedience with the remote caller so I can reach out and communicate with my dog and I can touch my dog from the front seat. [SPEAKER_00]: So because a lot of times dogs are opportunistic too, so they know, if they're on leash and you're right there, they may listen better because there's accountability that may happen.

50:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So once you start teaching them that the accountability can happen anywhere because of the remote caller, you can now get that really well behaved dog that respects you because you've done e-collar training. [SPEAKER_00]: So [SPEAKER_00]: But again, we're crash coursing, so it's like, well, we don't have that, and we don't have the advance to be dense.

50:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So what do we do? [SPEAKER_00]: We get into the back of the car individually with each dog, and you start working through the things, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So you have somebody drive, you get into the back, and you start working on your obedience. [SPEAKER_00]: But again, if you don't have anything to ask your dog to do, [SPEAKER_00]: You can't do anything.

50:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I want my dogs to stop barking. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, well, they're not because they're dogs and they're excited and now they're all three and a Five by five little space freaking out You know, and you don't and you have nothing like you don't you can't well. [SPEAKER_00]: No, they they know down They know sit or they know leave it, you know because like a really obedient dog You could just say hey leave it and they're like oh shit.

50:59 [SPEAKER_00]: We gotta stop barking. [SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna stop, you know [SPEAKER_00]: And then there becomes like little, you know, tedious things about inappropriate behavior. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't mind the occasional little wine and excitement, but if I'm getting three dogs in the back of the car where I can't even listen to myself think, that's a nightmare.

51:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's all because that's all because we've allowed it to get to that point. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just like kids, exactly like kids. [SPEAKER_00]: Like all of a sudden, you get three, six, seven, and eight-year-olds, and they're, you know, it'll go one way or the other. [SPEAKER_00]: They're either super respectful kind and nice and polite, or they will, you know, ruin your house.

51:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's how it goes. [SPEAKER_00]: So it kind of just depends on how much time you spend. [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, the same thing I said in the beginning is you have to audit what you want them to do alternatively. [SPEAKER_00]: I want my dog to stop freaking out in the car. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, what, what do you, what can you ask them to do?

51:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, well, I would want him to leave it. [SPEAKER_00]: I want him to knock it off. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, how much have you worked on that? [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's, you know, that's the first step. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: And, okay, so you mentioned and then working on something.

52:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So, like, in knowing that maybe part of her is, you know, I mean, she's a working breed. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, or so I assume is there are there certain jobs because like I talked to an animal communicator about her and she said, you know, she does she's she's more of the working dog than like a just like a home dog like she wants she needs a job.

52:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but like what what kind of a job like inside of the house other than like, you know, listening to what I'm saying or, you know, asking her to do what else can I have her do? [SPEAKER_01]: Like she had mentioned making her, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: Pick up or toys and put them back in the basket or whatever.

52:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, are there anything, is there anything that you can think of that I could be having her do in the house that I'm just not thinking of? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a great question. [SPEAKER_00]: Really good question. [SPEAKER_00]: So, and it offers a lot of fulfillment for dog, so it's super helpful when you can unlock that.

53:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So, working a dog generally speaking for a working dog living in a pet world, just to clarify, meaning you don't live in a farm and your dog is going out and working 17 hours a day hurting cattle. [SPEAKER_00]: So, when we have a working dog living in a pet home, [SPEAKER_00]: meaning the working dog living on a ranch is much easier to fill, you know, it's natural, like the dog just does it, you know, you get on your horse and you go and you're talking on this word.

53:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So for me, it's just thinking a lot, challenging the dog a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what work is for a dog. [SPEAKER_00]: They have a purpose, they have a job, they have a task. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's really what you want to do with your dog is give them purpose and a task. [SPEAKER_00]: And so a lot of times it's just, honestly, it's [SPEAKER_00]: or advanced obedience even when you get it, right?

53:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So that would be, for an example, I have a tug toy. [SPEAKER_00]: I have a chuck at Frisbee, I have a ball, whatever, your dog likes. [SPEAKER_00]: So you have that item, the dog is playing with it, playing with you with it, your tug and your plane, you say out, the dog drops it, right?

53:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's first thing is most dogs don't have out, so you got to start there. [SPEAKER_00]: And then the second thing would be throwing that item and then you telling the dog to stay so now the dog's brain is Firing right like okay, okay, she said stay. [SPEAKER_00]: I got a stay. [SPEAKER_00]: She's looking at you.

54:13 [SPEAKER_00]: She's looking at you. [SPEAKER_00]: She's looking at the ball. [SPEAKER_00]: She's looking at the ball She's like firing right and then what I do is I'll say down boom the dog downs. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: What's next? [SPEAKER_00]: What's going to be? [SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to go get it.

54:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So their brain is Firing right so you're so really to work your dog. [SPEAKER_00]: You want to challenge your dog make them think okay [SPEAKER_00]: Dogs, the lives are so mundane. [SPEAKER_00]: Every day is Groundhog Day Forum. [SPEAKER_00]: We wake up. [SPEAKER_00]: We go for a walk. [SPEAKER_00]: We own bags.

54:36 [SPEAKER_00]: It's routine. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's routine by habit. [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry. [SPEAKER_00]: It's routine by our lifestyles as humans, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Because we usually, we have a, you know, typically Monday through Friday job. [SPEAKER_00]: This is what we do, whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: Even if you don't, it's just important to have that challenge for them.

54:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Make them think. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's where it really gets fun when you get an advanced when you get a advanced level of obedience Working a dog on an e-colour. [SPEAKER_00]: That's where you can have a lot of fun because you can challenge the crap out of them. [SPEAKER_00]: So Throw that item You say break boom, they're running towards that item and all of a sudden you recall the dog right before they get to it Zoom they have to turn around and come back right so you're constantly like [SPEAKER_00]: really trying to figure the dog out and make them think and and challenge them and whatever they thought was going to happen is not going to happen and now they're just their whole their brain is just firing instead of just you know when I walk on my I have a working dog when I walk her it does nothing for her literally nothing I mean we the only reason why we do it is because we wanted to come with us but she'd rather go home like and she's done that she's turned around like she always carry your friends being she'll just turn around and go home she's like I don't this is bullshit I want to pull

55:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So my point is, is just when you have a dog that has the working brain, you need to make a work. [SPEAKER_00]: And again, most people, they're not going to go out and buy a farm and do that. [SPEAKER_00]: So you know, other things are, you know, loving and fruit that cost a little bit of money and also you to go places is agility, you know, things like that, like getting into a sport, fly-bought, fly-kit, fly something, fly-bought, I think, or whatever.

56:14 [SPEAKER_00]: There's all sorts of different stuff, but for most people, [SPEAKER_00]: Just making your dog actually think, challenging them is huge. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what you're doing with the food, type of thing. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think about it like this. [SPEAKER_00]: You do place, stay, you put the food bolt down.

56:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Then you recall the dog to you, send the dog back to the place, tell the dog to down, then tell the dog to sit, then break the dog towards the food and then down the dog in front of the food. [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, you couldn't do that now, but when you get to a level three, you can, and that really makes the dog think, and the dog's constantly going to be looking at you.

56:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it time? [SPEAKER_00]: Is it time? [SPEAKER_00]: Is it time? [SPEAKER_00]: Type of thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, that's what I would do. [SPEAKER_00]: But then, you know, there's other like little things like playing fetch, playing tug, like getting your dog to outlet, chasing things, grabbing things, tearing things, playing tug with you.

57:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are really good outlets for the dog as well. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So is there a like if I just do like the the basic like recall and whatnot for now like you think that will be enough just like in this moment and I mean obviously like practicing the other commands too that you had mentioned but you think that's enough for now like when would be a good time for me to know okay like let's try a different type of you know more advanced training.

57:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good question. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, every single behavior that you do, you ultimately want it to be applicable and be able to do it anywhere at any time. [SPEAKER_00]: So the advanced obedience is going to having your dog completely off leash with lots of stimulation going on in your dog is just glued to you, listening to you, and we'll do everything you say.

57:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm definitely not there right now. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I know, but right now it's, you know, let's get that's what you want to work on. [SPEAKER_00]: Because I mean, that's what a lot of people do is they're asking their dog to do an advanced thing with a kindergarten, you know, like education.

58:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: And again, it's like dog owners don't see it like that, so then they get really frustrated and then I just come in and I'm like, look, your dog doesn't know that and you want your dog to do that. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why your dog is not doing that. [SPEAKER_00]: So at the end of the day, that's where it comes down to is like telling a fish not to swim really understanding those genetics just in general with any dog and then putting putting the accountability back on you to be like, well, I haven't really done much with my dog and also my dog is chasing somebody off leash in a yard.

58:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've never worked on a recall with my dog and I really wanted my dog to stop it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, they're not just gonna stop because they're dogs. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's, I think one's dog owners like push themselves through that experience and understand that life gets so much better because they realize really, it's like an epiphany where they're like, oh, I've been wanting my dog to stop being a dog all this time.

59:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And really, I just need to work on controlling my dog more. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: You know? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, that would be huge for you guys. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's at the end of the day. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing with you is just making sure that you're introduced, like when you are bringing it dog into the home for whatever reason, you're doing it slower for her.

59:26 [SPEAKER_00]: and you're, you know, doing it more at her pace instead of just like throwing her into it and then have a you know, how to just the conversation, just pick hey guys, like the she and I know my other two ex-lub day care and they're just goofballs or whatever, but does she actually like, like she play?

59:40 [SPEAKER_00]: She haven't fun, she's just sitting a corner, like, because if it all gets sitting in the corner who really doesn't want to engage in play in that CRMO and then other dogs are going up to try to play, like that's where she's going to get whichy and, you know. [SPEAKER_00]: Happy, which makes sense because she's like, I know, you know, it's kind of like up to the daycare attendant to be like this dog is not having a good time So, yeah, and then again, like really just kind of put it into your head that Anytime you want your dog to stop something Nine times out of ten the answer to it is asking your dog to do something else almost every time