E387- Fake Dog Trainer Ruined This Dog... Can We Fix Him?

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, everybody. [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: This is an incredible podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: We talk about other dog trainers really ruining the training of this dog early on. [SPEAKER_00]: What a dog attack can do early on in a dog's confidence and their ability to handle other dogs.

0:18 [SPEAKER_00]: and we talk about just really the reason why dog owners feel like they're doing all the right things that they're seeing on Instagram and on TikTok and even their trainers telling them and they're still failing and I'm going to go over the reason why they are failing in particular. [SPEAKER_00]: So we just dive into a lot of different things with a dog who has a lot going on and owner who just is really looking for help.

0:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So [SPEAKER_00]: I know you guys are going to enjoy this. [SPEAKER_00]: I know that you guys are going to benefit from this and unless I wouldn't put it out I record a lot of these phone calls. [SPEAKER_00]: I record a lot of different things and I only put out what I think is actually going to be helpful for you guys So I appreciate you guys listening.

0:55 [SPEAKER_00]: We put out these podcasts multiple times a week So make sure you subscribe and follow along because we're going to keep putting out information that's helpful. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll talk to you guys in the next one. [SPEAKER_00]: Bye [SPEAKER_01]: So my dog is dance. [SPEAKER_01]: He's a greater Swiss mountain dog.

1:18 [SPEAKER_01]: He was born in October of 25. [SPEAKER_01]: So he's, I believe, 20-ish months. [SPEAKER_01]: I actually got him in New York. [SPEAKER_01]: From a breeder, really great breeder, shows dogs. [SPEAKER_01]: I had Yorkies before. [SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't really, you know, I read about Excel Breed Dogs.

1:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really get like the working breed. [SPEAKER_01]: I get it now. [SPEAKER_01]: I probably made a lot of mistakes. [SPEAKER_01]: Let me tell you about my family. [SPEAKER_01]: I have three children. [SPEAKER_01]: Seven to thirteen. [SPEAKER_01]: We are a very social family. [SPEAKER_01]: And in the summer time, we are at a boat club on Kataba Island, off of Lake Eury.

2:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And we basically sleep on our boat like Thursday through Tuesday. [SPEAKER_01]: We take three weeks and we go up through Canada and Michigan. [SPEAKER_01]: So we are around people and dogs often. [SPEAKER_01]: When he was a puppy, [SPEAKER_01]: very excited by other dogs and it was the winter time and I met another family that had a Swissy and they would come over and like play in my entryway or play outside and I didn't know anything about boundaries and you know they basically just played and I didn't you know he was a baby baby but I didn't I didn't know what I was doing.

2:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Now I know that was the wrong thing to do. [SPEAKER_01]: Then, as you got a little older, he would pull towards other dogs, and I would let face the face meetings, which I now wish I never would have left happened. [SPEAKER_01]: But he was always excitable, excited by them. [SPEAKER_01]: As always loved people.

2:55 [SPEAKER_01]: He last year, we were around a lot of dogs, and there was a dog part of it, and there were, there's like no dogs ever there. [SPEAKER_01]: and then another dog came that we knew and it was a golden and it was much smaller than him and um she was very strange with him and she got on top of him and attacked him and I had to pull the dog off by the tail to get him off of them and they had to visit much bigger he was he was 140 pounds um he was on his back he was terrified and ever since then he has become very reactive with other dogs we would after that we went on our boat trip [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I have, I have a prong collar on him because he weighs more than me.

3:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And I need to keep both of us safe. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I was taught how to use it. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think I use it properly. [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't want it forever. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, so when we were on the trip in Michigan, when we, there's lots of dogs up in Charlotte, way in Bay Harbor and Harbor Springs.

4:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And we would dock down the street. [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, he would explode totally explode. [SPEAKER_01]: So after that, I was introduced to a guy that did e-pollur training and he met him and he's like, I can have this dog in five sessions off Lee shrink. [SPEAKER_01]: He's like $2,000, five sessions will be done if it if it takes more sessions, it's on me.

4:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, okay, I was very naive. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, we started off in the home depot parking lot and I, he had to eat it was any color and he just had to be walking and had him following me. [SPEAKER_01]: I now know that he was literally just shocking him to keep him by my leg. [SPEAKER_01]: There was no like training communication wearing it for a week prior.

4:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Explained like there was no there was no teaching involved in shooting it and then we went to the dog park and he told me to have the color when you get out of the car when if he's barking around these other dogs. [SPEAKER_01]: You just zap him and I was like, [SPEAKER_01]: on what level and he's like as high as it takes to get him to stop.

4:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I'm not doing that. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not doing it. [SPEAKER_01]: So I went in the dog park. [SPEAKER_01]: He had it on like, it was the mini educator at the time. [SPEAKER_01]: He had it on like a 99 and he was tapping him. [SPEAKER_01]: And I midway through. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, we're done.

5:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I don't think this relationship's going to work out. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, well, I can I can do it slower. [SPEAKER_01]: You seemed like you needed to move fast because you're around other dogs at a bow club and you seemed like you were panicked. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, [SPEAKER_01]: But I was like, so I was like, I feel like I would like to pay you for the two sessions.

5:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But the over the rest of my money back and he was like, no, and I was like, okay, great. [SPEAKER_01]: So I lost $2,000. [SPEAKER_01]: Then I was introduced to a guy that did the canine units for police dogs. [SPEAKER_01]: So the bomb smithing dogs that I told him about what had happened.

5:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And he was like, yeah, he's like, that was wrong. [SPEAKER_01]: That was so. [SPEAKER_01]: We did training around when they would have the play stars. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they started out with the German peppers that had no training and he used the prawn collar. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think, I don't even have sense.

6:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it was too rough because when he, I was there at the time, but when he had him, I mean, Vance healed to him. [SPEAKER_01]: He did a beautiful job, but that never translated, and like he'd be around tons of German shepherds, and he would be neutral. [SPEAKER_01]: but it never translated when I took him anywhere else.

6:28 [SPEAKER_01]: It just seemed, it seems like he was able to control him. [SPEAKER_01]: And at first, it was a harsh correction that Vans was like, what the hell? [SPEAKER_01]: But then he didn't have to really do it again. [SPEAKER_01]: And this was over like a month and a half. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I will say he's had a trainer, a local trainer, who's been fantastic since he was 12 weeks.

6:49 [SPEAKER_01]: the relationship, the obedience. [SPEAKER_01]: And so he knows he knows heel, he knows down, but in any sort of, and it in my driveway, I can have him, you know, got the e-color, but I just totally off leash. [SPEAKER_01]: I can walk around the driveway, advanced down, advanced it like he's beautiful, he heels, but in an excitable situation, not at all.

7:08 [SPEAKER_01]: An example would be we had our boat up at Putten Bay and he's got, so he has a few dog friends that he was friends with before his reactivity. [SPEAKER_01]: For months, I didn't want to play with anybody because I wanted to get this under control. [SPEAKER_01]: We were walking over to their boat and he saw Ellie on this big Viking boat and I mean, he tried to pull me and I popped this collar and I was like, ah, and I got him to heal to me, but then I got into the boat and I stood on the dock with him for 20 minutes trying to get him to be in a calm state.

7:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I was I was chill. [SPEAKER_01]: I was calm. [SPEAKER_01]: He I made him down and he was just like like yelping like he and finally I got him into what was calm for him, but he still wasn't neutral. [SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't neutral and the lab is sitting on the book completely neutral just or the retriever just chilling just like looking at him like what is your problem.

8:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So that and then there's another piece of the puzzle which. [SPEAKER_01]: of one of the reasons I was even drawn to call you was because you had the woman on there that was talking about vets and treeing dogs and I started watching some of that but he in March was very bizarre to me. [SPEAKER_01]: He was fine one day totally fine on a Saturday playing with his two [SPEAKER_01]: He's got a stomach of steel like that would never bother him.

8:45 [SPEAKER_01]: But he woke up twice in the middle of the night with liquid diarrhea, which was kind of strange that I woke up the next morning. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, come on, Vance, let's go eat and he couldn't stand up. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, this happening. [SPEAKER_01]: Took him to the emergency vet.

8:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Was there from 7 a.m. or 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. and they did a joint happen diagnosed him with IMPA, where his immune system attacks his own joints. [SPEAKER_01]: He had gotten his booster for rabies two weeks prior, and I was like, could that have been it? [SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, could have been.

9:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know what has it. [SPEAKER_01]: He is now in remission, but it's been an awful, like, go since March. [SPEAKER_01]: She's been on lots of steroids. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's the present. [SPEAKER_01]: So he is back to himself now. [SPEAKER_01]: He is running, he is playing, he's jumping.

9:30 [SPEAKER_01]: He is still on a very small partner's on dose. [SPEAKER_01]: And a, [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's a precedent. [SPEAKER_01]: So, I want him to be neutral. [SPEAKER_01]: That's my goal. [SPEAKER_01]: That's my want. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really know how to get there. [SPEAKER_01]: The trainer that I work with here locally, she is amazing.

9:54 [SPEAKER_01]: She is kind of like, I don't know how to get you to that point. [SPEAKER_01]: I can take him on a walk. [SPEAKER_01]: So, so we also, I go to, it's called the Polo Fields. [SPEAKER_01]: it's a walking trail and there's dogs and I will be in the center there and it distanced like I can get him like he'll look at a dog and then I can sometimes he'll look at me and I'll yes and treat and sometimes I'll you know say yes to get him to look at me but I can from a distance he's fine now he's still he's still engaged in that but he I can get him to I can be the more exciting one I can [SPEAKER_01]: I know it's happening, I know he's getting excited and I try to break it before and sometimes I can, but I struggle, like I really struggle.

10:46 [SPEAKER_01]: He's a very sweet dog. [SPEAKER_01]: He's great with people, like for instance, if he's out in the art and FedEx comes, no worries. [SPEAKER_01]: But, and he's usually great with people coming, now when I say great, he'll bark, he's an a learning dog, like that's what he's going to do. [SPEAKER_01]: to the place where I would like him to be able to place when somebody comes to door and open and he doesn't rush them.

11:09 [SPEAKER_01]: He does rush people. [SPEAKER_01]: I can get him to down, but he's still excitable. [SPEAKER_01]: But when my daughter has her friends that are like 13 year olds come over, he is, I don't want to say aggressive, but it makes me uncomfortable. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't trust him in some situations.

11:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Like most people, like if he's out in the yard in a random person comes in, but he's very kg about my car [SPEAKER_01]: teenage kids for some reason or kids that seem afraid of him. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's what it is. [SPEAKER_01]: So I never want to be in a situation where something obviously bad happens to somebody else.

11:49 [SPEAKER_00]: What does he do with the kids that makes you nervous? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, okay, so I also have to keep in mind, you know, he's on a very low dose of steroids now, but he is on pregnancy zone. [SPEAKER_01]: So my daughter has one friend that's a good friend of hers and she's [SPEAKER_01]: and my daughter walked in the door and her friend walked in behind her and he literally lunged at her.

12:11 [SPEAKER_01]: My daughter got in the way and he lifted my daughter's arm. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if Nick is the right word, but he did stick his mouth on my daughter and like and he loved, I think he, I don't know if that's the steroids, I don't know what it is, but he is very excitable and [SPEAKER_01]: possibly guarding.

12:32 [SPEAKER_01]: But like I said, if the FedEx guy does get in these outside doesn't care. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll see comes the front door. [SPEAKER_01]: He's going to bark, but even there's been a FedEx door to the guy that don't come to the front door. [SPEAKER_01]: He comes. [SPEAKER_01]: I make the answer and then I open the door and he's excited to see him.

12:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So I can't figure out is it just the guy's presence because he's not afraid. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what he is. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, [SPEAKER_01]: Um, he's totally fine with that. [SPEAKER_01]: He's totally friendly. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not, it's not that he's reactive to people.

13:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's more of a guardian instinct as what I think. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I would, I wanted to before this meeting, but could also get some videos of me walking him into my neighborhood where I can get him in a heel. [SPEAKER_01]: I can get him to look. [SPEAKER_01]: He looks up at me.

13:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And he, he loves to work and he loves to work for food. [SPEAKER_01]: But obviously, [SPEAKER_01]: I don't always have treats and that can't be the like whole solution to this, but in my neighborhood where he's used to it he's he's great. [SPEAKER_01]: Now if I take him to sugar and falls, which is our like little village with restaurants and ice cream shops and dogs, I mean, I can again to focus on me to save my life.

13:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm trying, I'm also working very hard on it, even if I'm feeling some anxiety to like really take some time to like, before I go out, like, like, because I know that he can feel that, um, you know, I know I made a lot of mistakes. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I, I, I just, I want to do what's best for him.

14:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I want, I want him to be able to be neutral around other dogs, offlation. [SPEAKER_01]: I most certainly don't want to be concerned about having children over my house, even like at this point, like, [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to be afraid of having, like, a babysitter come that's, that's younger that I would feel nervous about.

14:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So. [SPEAKER_00]: What do you, and what, what is your concern about? [SPEAKER_00]: When you say you want them to be neutral off leash, it seems like he's been pretty dang good with dogs. [SPEAKER_00]: He just can be reactive to dogs, but what would be your concern when he's off leash with [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it would definitely take off like keep.

14:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: OK, so you mean like recall? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I want to recall. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he sounds vicious. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if he would hurt another dog. [SPEAKER_01]: OK. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

15:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how I don't know how to test that. [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, you know, I want to be so OK. [SPEAKER_01]: So we did it before this IMP8 thing we did. [SPEAKER_01]: We've done. [SPEAKER_01]: Community dog walks with a trainer. [SPEAKER_01]: He's fantastic. [SPEAKER_01]: He knows Vance.

15:30 [SPEAKER_01]: He likes to have Vance lead the pack. [SPEAKER_01]: He said it's more comfortable to be a leader than in the back. [SPEAKER_01]: But I can get it. [SPEAKER_01]: And then he has the dog stopping. [SPEAKER_01]: Like we will slow them. [SPEAKER_01]: And we even between him and Vance doesn't want.

15:44 [SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't, you know, but that's, it takes time. [SPEAKER_01]: Like when we first get there, [SPEAKER_01]: insane. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's it will just start with those two things. [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds to me that [SPEAKER_00]: the reactivity is frustration.

16:05 [SPEAKER_00]: He has never been aggressive towards other dogs, although he did get attacked before, but that wasn't his fault, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So then every other situation you've had, like he plays well, he gets excited when he sees dogs. [SPEAKER_00]: And then when you arched in training mode, and everything is kind of like calm down when you get into a group class, he's fine.

16:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Meaning just to give you context like a dog who is aggressive or mean or doesn't like other dogs like it would be pretty Consistent every time they're around any opportunity lunch bar grab bite, but the fact that he plays with other dogs and always really has But now that now that he is on the leash after that attack he's more reactive at a frustration likely [SPEAKER_00]: And so that is something that is common.

16:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say there's a lot of frustration reactivity I would I would probably say the majority of reactivity we see on the leash is off of frustration And that's pretty much like I'm being held back. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to be there. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to play. [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like a Dog that sees their ball and they're like freaking out because they're balls right there and they just need to get air.

17:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Same thing. [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's the [SPEAKER_00]: The motivation in the end goal and the thing is right there, and then they get really frustrated because they're on the leash So that's just reactivity Excitement So You know, still annoying under the last, nonetheless, but [SPEAKER_00]: So with that, that is where, what are you doing right now when he, for an example, the boat thing?

17:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that you said, he saw the dog in the boat, he was really excited, he was stimulated, he was whining, and you just kind of just waited it out. [SPEAKER_00]: During that time, what else were you doing, re-correcting him? [SPEAKER_00]: We're using your prong, your e-colour, re-trying to disrupt what he was doing, or were you just sitting there and waiting for him to stop?

17:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, okay, so when we were first on the deck, I mean, he pulled me. [SPEAKER_01]: I was in sandals, which was probably a mistake. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I had, like, I corrected him. [SPEAKER_01]: But, and then I, and then I, like, made him heal to me. [SPEAKER_01]: But, I mean, he was in a very excited state.

18:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And then when we got to the boat, I made him sit and then I made him down. [SPEAKER_01]: And I actually, I stuck my foot on the leash just as an excerpt I didn't want him to, um, cool. [SPEAKER_01]: And he was just, like, white, well, screaming at the beginning. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I was like, kind of ignoring it.

18:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't popping his thing because I didn't know how or when or like what was the appropriate part of that okay how to do so I mean I just I was just basically waiting and making him's making him in a down stay. [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean if had had I had let go that leash and I if had put him in a stay and I was like, you know and let go of least you just go try to jump on the boat.

18:59 [SPEAKER_00]: yeah for sure no doubt yeah for sure so just with that particular instance like you have to really focus on you know what you're doing we can't just stop a dog from doing unwanted behaviors I know that you know that I'm just reiterating like we can't just say hey stop barking stop you know jumping stop whiny like we can't just that obviously the dog is [SPEAKER_00]: you're just like with kids, it's like subcrying.

19:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you've got to work through it, right? [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, why what's going on, you know, how can we, so with dogs, you know, very similarly like he sees his buddy on the boat and he's like, I need to get there and you're basically the only thing in between him and that dog and so of course you're taking all of it.

19:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So [SPEAKER_00]: If we talk about different levels of obedience, that is the hardest level of obedience you can be up against as a dog owner, your dog's friend, within a shots range. [SPEAKER_00]: So your dog is like, that's the thing I want to do the most is go play with that dog. [SPEAKER_00]: run around, and whatever, and tussle through.

20:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So understanding that, that obviously you have to also have high levels of obedience in order to accomplish that goal. [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason why I'm telling you that is because I want you to be mindful, and yeah, be mindful that when you're approaching a level three out of three type of obedience, if you don't have like the sharpest tool in the shed, you do, you don't, like you have to give yourself a little bit more grace there.

20:32 [SPEAKER_00]: of you go out and you don't have like the most obedient dog in the world you're gonna deal with that and give you know what I mean like that is a really hard challenge to deal with I'm not saying it's not it's it's appropriate and I'm not saying that it's not annoying or frustrated I'm just saying when I'm looking when I'm zooming out as a trainer and you said hey, I just went to the most distracting situation I possibly could with my dog any failed I would then turn around and audit and ask you well [SPEAKER_00]: does your obedience and your skill sets match what you're asking him to do and if that's not the case then that's why you failed.

21:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So just working through that situation you have to understand that it yes it was this this reaction and frustrating and you didn't want to get pulled down and it was a mess but at the same time I would also say like maybe you weren't prepared for that either or more or less your dog was not prepared for that.

21:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason why I'm saying that is because I think it's really helpful for dog owners to understand that it wasn't necessarily you or even your dog that failed it's just like, man, we weren't I don't think we're ready for that right so so there's that right it's kind of like getting pushed down a hill when you don't want to write a bike like just buckle up put on your helmet and hope for the best same thing you know when you're approaching a really really really tough thing and that and that the reason why I'm thinking this too is because [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the other thing that you said is when you're at the part so basically everything that you've told me is you say my dogs really good From a distance or at least you know that so that that represents levels of obedience It's essentially it means my dogs really good at basic obedience But when it comes to intermediate or advanced obedience with higher distractions closer we fail and that is a

22:18 [SPEAKER_00]: the sky is blue and the grass is green. [SPEAKER_00]: That is like, of course. [SPEAKER_00]: So my point is looking at this from a different lens and a different angle, I think should give you a lot more insight and empowerment to understand that I don't think you're hitting wall because you're doing something wrong.

22:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you're hitting wall because you're up against [SPEAKER_00]: a task that you're not prepared to handle. [SPEAKER_00]: So for me, investigating this situation, just to try to figure out what the lowest thing in fruit here is is you're out into your buyer's self with dogs at a distance, we're good.

22:50 [SPEAKER_00]: As soon as we get right next to him, we fail. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's levels of obedience. [SPEAKER_00]: When the same thing at the boat, if we were further away from the dog on the boat, we'd do better, as soon as we get super close, and we're 20 feet, 20 yards, whatever away, that's when things start to unravel.

23:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's levels of obedience and that you have to work on. [SPEAKER_00]: So that would be my first and foremost feedback is I don't think it's one or two or three or even any number of amount of things that you're doing wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: I just think that what you're putting yourself in and what you're putting your dog in, you're not prepared for it, you haven't trained for yet.

23:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the first thing and then but life happens. [SPEAKER_00]: So what do we do when we get into these situations? [SPEAKER_00]: So for me, when I get into a dog especially a big powerful dog and that is reacting at the installation, winding and freaking out, [SPEAKER_00]: and inevitably, if you're like, well, I have to get next to this boat, I have to get on this boat, or even if you're walking to that boat to get on it, and that distraction is there, rather it's your family or another dog, and your dog is going, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, it's like, [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, do I have time to do this?

24:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I do. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's slow this down. [SPEAKER_00]: So things that I do make sure your prong colors nice and snug right behind the ears, making sure your equipment is on point. [SPEAKER_00]: And what I would do is I would drop everything except for the dog, meaning if you have groceries, bags, kids, whatever.

24:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's drop everything. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's work on this. [SPEAKER_00]: So the distraction is here and you're here. [SPEAKER_00]: So instead of just sitting here in the dog's going, come on. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go. [SPEAKER_00]: It's so close. [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's again, you're not when you when you develop dogs in levels of obedience.

24:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are things that you prepare for. [SPEAKER_00]: It's called the three D's. [SPEAKER_00]: Distance distraction and duration. [SPEAKER_00]: So you literally work yourself through impulses impulse control. [SPEAKER_00]: in that process. [SPEAKER_00]: So if you take a dog that doesn't have really good impulse control and then you put them against the thing they want the most, they're going to sit there and wine like a banshee because that's what dogs do.

24:50 [SPEAKER_00]: There's absolutely no question mark on why that happened. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, that makes total sense to me. [SPEAKER_00]: You got really close to something and the dog was like, what are you doing? [SPEAKER_00]: Let's keep going. [SPEAKER_00]: You stop and you said, well, you did what you should have done, which is like, I'm not rewarding you for this, and also I don't want to get knocked over, [SPEAKER_00]: But what I would have done is turn that into a training opportunity and basically, again, pull your prong collar up and do like an inside turn and go out.

25:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So basically, again, the pot of gold is here, which is the other dog. [SPEAKER_00]: Your dog is here, going, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, god, oh, [SPEAKER_00]: You have values a good way to put it and slowly but surely you'll start to kind of like get it into a hot tub or cold plunge or something that's like if you jump straight in it's really hard to deal with.

25:50 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't breathe. [SPEAKER_00]: You feel like you've got to get out your brains freaking out, your nervous system is going Oh, what do we do? [SPEAKER_00]: That's what your dog was doing and so what I like to do is spit, but here's the thing. [SPEAKER_00]: If you do it often and you're trained, you get in and you're like, boom, we'll probably still may be uncomfortable, but you know what I mean?

26:08 [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's much different than the first time. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I do with dogs like this. [SPEAKER_00]: Like if if you said, hey, here's a green dog and this is their best thing, what would I wouldn't go in and try to correct the dog and say, quit the crap and that would be it.

26:20 [SPEAKER_00]: That would be one of the things I would do, but it wouldn't be, [SPEAKER_00]: Bang, bang, bang, stop, stop, stop because that's not fair to the dog because they're just so overwhelmed and and they're just peeking like up here and it's just too much and too overstimulating so. [SPEAKER_00]: That's just one thing I would do is I would go out, come back in, go out, come back in, basically little dopamine out, little dopamine out.

26:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, same thing I was getting into a hot tub, you just get in, your feet, your legs, you just keep, you're not just jumping in because it's too much. [SPEAKER_00]: And so that, in that way, [SPEAKER_00]: you can work on your heel and your sit. [SPEAKER_00]: So I would come out and then I would start working back in on your heel and I would stop.

27:05 [SPEAKER_00]: The only caveat to that is that sometimes dogs would do really good with the heel and sit but they're still winding and vocalizing and that's kind of like the biggest thing you're trying to turn off is to chill out. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the first thing I would do is do a lot of taking your left leg, turning inside to the dog, getting the dog, I'm not saying go home or go, you know, spend 20 minutes, no walk away for five seconds and then come back in and then walk away.

27:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It's called negative punishment, so negative means you're taking something away, so if you enter a space and your dog freaks out, it'd be like taking a cell phone away from a kid, it's negative punishment, you're taking something away because that's how you're punishing them. [SPEAKER_00]: same thing for a dog you step into an environment and they freak out and they do a bunch of unpleasant unpleasant things that you don't like, you remove that.

27:51 [SPEAKER_00]: We're done. [SPEAKER_00]: We're leaving the park, we're leaving this like in conjunction with the corrections. [SPEAKER_00]: So I would say, hey, leave it knock it off, correction disrupt it, stop what you're doing, knock it off, right, and then moving the dog out. [SPEAKER_00]: Because they're kind of like, it's almost involuntary.

28:09 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're taking a dog who doesn't, if you're taking a dog who doesn't have experience and skills to control their emotion on impulse control, it's almost an unfair ask to say, hey, don't, don't get excited right here. [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, I'm not prepared for this. [SPEAKER_00]: I'd be like, you know, taking your 13 year old daughter and putting them in the Navy SEALS training.

28:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what to do. [SPEAKER_00]: I can handle this. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah, no shit. [SPEAKER_00]: You're not supposed to. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the same thing with dogs. [SPEAKER_00]: If they're not, if they haven't practiced regulating themselves around that really high level of stimulation, it's difficult.

28:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So again, even if you did it tonight, you can still do it successfully, but just understand with everything I just said, that's really what you're up against is I think you're up against more about experience. [SPEAKER_00]: and the amount of times you've done it versus your dog not listening because because again like it's the same thing for obedience when you let your dog completely off leash and they don't know recall well so now you just gave him a level three task runoff leash completely away from me and you tell the dog to come and they don't and I'm like okay have you worked all the way up to that point and if the answer is no you you can't complain about your dog not coming back off leash

29:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's just one part of that. [SPEAKER_00]: But you can still work through these situations. [SPEAKER_00]: So for me, again, I would do in-out correction, in-out correction. [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, the moment you come into the dock or the moment you come into that environment and your dog starts to rise out, you leave, and you have to give yourself enough time in order to get through that.

29:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the first thing I would do, because [SPEAKER_00]: There is going to become a point where it's so involuntary, it's almost unfair to sit there and just hammer your dog with corrections when they don't even, they can't control them, their vocalization. [SPEAKER_00]: So there's that to kind of like what you were dealing with with that trainer.

30:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Putting them into a dog park and then correcting them whenever they would get vocal or do something with another dog is like unfair. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's like, that's the same thing. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like you're putting your dog in a situation they're not prepared for and then hammering them if they do something wrong.

30:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, ugh. [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Context matters. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't at at any point in time. [SPEAKER_00]: I never feel like it's appropriate for dogs to do unruly stuff, but what I'm saying is is if we zoom all the way out, we just have to be fair and give ourselves grace and not ruin our like, oh, our training is bad or we've regressed.

30:44 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, no, no, you're just not prepared for this. [SPEAKER_01]: This is, yes, a little event and I to speak to as excitement and a different format. [SPEAKER_01]: I can also tell you like, um, [SPEAKER_01]: I take them into my sister's house who has a golden and then their neighbors have two doggerman and that's like his favorite thing to you.

31:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So when we like turned down her street he is like like so excited and then we get there and they might be running around and I open the door and he's just got his e-colour on and I make him sit and I make him like he can't just get out of the car and like go bananas. [SPEAKER_01]: So I make him sit and he is sitting [SPEAKER_01]: So then I let him out and I've got my e-collar and I'm like, I heal and then like, out sometimes I make him dance.

31:29 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm trying to like work with him around but I think it's kind of, it's a lot for him. [SPEAKER_01]: Like we can kind of fumble through it with using the e-collar but he, it's not like he's jumping out of the car and he's like, okay, I'll listen to you and then I'll, you know, he's not chill by any standards but I'm trying to show him.

31:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Even though you're excited about this, [SPEAKER_01]: safely. [SPEAKER_01]: And we fumble through it. [SPEAKER_01]: But the excitement starts before he even sees that dogs, those dogs as soon as we turn down their streets. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, [SPEAKER_00]: he's already like yeah and that's just his personality so you just have to take that in consideration too like he's the level 10 he's like you know and so it's you know you're your mom so you understand your kids are going to be different too it's like oh you know it's like that's just his personality you can't you know don't take it you know to heart and just be like oh he's being so bad it's like that's just kind of who he is

32:28 [SPEAKER_00]: When you work on that with your, your, the dobermans, you said your sister's house or something, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So how often do you do that? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, do you do that impulse control? [SPEAKER_01]: Probably not enough. [SPEAKER_01]: So to be honest, you know, in March, she got this, I am the, I mean, I used to like suit up in a snow suit in the winter, but he got sick in March.

32:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it's only even the last two weeks that we've been going back over there because I didn't, I, you know, I wasn't feeling. [SPEAKER_00]: um but we did it all last summer and in the winter and um okay so just the only reason why I'm asking is because when we train a dog on certain things like this we do it every day multiple times a day and tell the dogs like oh okay I get this.

33:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not just for them to all of a sudden have this aha moment. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just practicing. [SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to get it. [SPEAKER_00]: You're not like a golf swing or kicking a soccer ball. [SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like that was wrong.

33:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Do it right. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like okay. [SPEAKER_00]: How like you have there is the grit in between right. [SPEAKER_00]: So the reason why I'm asking is because you have to. [SPEAKER_00]: audit. [SPEAKER_00]: You don't this isn't a question. [SPEAKER_00]: This is just for you to take home like you have to audit.

33:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that situation on the dock or like any other situation that you can think of no matter the context really high distraction. [SPEAKER_00]: I want you to chill. [SPEAKER_00]: If you don't work on it enough and practice it outside of the actual real life. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason why it's not as good as it could be, right?

34:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So just think about that Those are things that would be working on low hanging fruit like if if the dock in the dog was a ten out of ten experience Things that you can do, which you probably already do. [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like Food bull down waiting breaking Thresholds at the door thresholds at the crate thresholds at the car like you're already doing but do it often So anytime that you can work on that the better [SPEAKER_00]: And once you've mastered the low levels, just start to build up.

34:27 [SPEAKER_00]: But the food bowl in the dish is like, now that they're conditioned to it and the beginning, it was really hard, but now that they're conditioned to it, it's really easy. [SPEAKER_00]: So now you just have to keep getting into higher levels. [SPEAKER_00]: So two things, practice that more than you are to make it better.

34:44 [SPEAKER_00]: The impulse control is really huge, but then also, instead of just standing there and wait, excuse me, waiting for him to calm down, which is probably not. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, do that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, do that inside turn. [SPEAKER_00]: Go back the other way and just kind of again getting into that hot tub in out in out until you've got some more settled down dog and that's just how you have to do it because that's just the reality like and you have to carve out time for it again unless you have like a level three.

35:15 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, just Yoda dog and that's what you can expect, but you know, you just have to you just have to also consider his personality too. [SPEAKER_00]: Like when he gets really excited, he gets really excited. [SPEAKER_00]: And so you just have to spend a little bit more time on, all right, we're going to we're going to give yourself a little breathing room here.

35:32 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to come out. [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to come back in. [SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he even has that. [SPEAKER_01]: So the trainer that he's had in his [SPEAKER_01]: a week or two ago and he saw her car and he immediately was excited and I made him stay in the car and get out nicely but he immediately pulled me and I had to pop the color and I did do some turns but so you're saying more things like that like she's there and wants to get to her.

36:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I need to work with him to get him in a column or state before so he can walk over there nicely without trying to fool. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: don't think of the big, it's kind of like, you know, like your health. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, your heart isn't working right. [SPEAKER_00]: And we could say, it's not just the smoking, it's the smoking, your diet, the lack of exercise, your sleep.

36:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: It's not, so for you, for you, it's not just that one incident at the dock. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the overall health of your relationship with impulse control. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not just these one-offs. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, no, if we look at all these one-offs that you're really having a hard time with, it's impulse control, it's the same thing with the kids.

36:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So for an example, when you say advanced come, it's your daughter coming in, it's excitement, the girls, everything's just a exciting thing. [SPEAKER_00]: And you say, come, and he's like, ah, this is exciting, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So all of that is like advanced obedience. [SPEAKER_00]: So to me, again, zooming all the way up and consulting these multiple issues is the same issue where there's high levels of arousal and stimulation, and the dog is really jacked up.

37:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And, and, and I just don't think you've really broken through to the level of obedience that you need to to get the control, but also the practice that you need. [SPEAKER_00]: You don't want to practice in a game, and that's what you're doing. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what you're doing. [SPEAKER_00]: Every time you really need him to perform, it's the real game.

37:36 [SPEAKER_00]: When you need to be practicing, you need to spend, you know, and again, a kick in a soccer ball. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, don't learn how to play in the game. [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to get squashed and, [SPEAKER_00]: discouraged and frustrated, like learn, oh, kick it, kick it over and spend hours on the field, learning it, then when the real game comes, you're ready.

37:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I think you're doing right now is you're trying to learn something in hitting the ground running. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's really, I know that that's really difficult for dog owners to do, because you're not practicing what you're really struggling with, which is the timing of the corrections.

38:08 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, for an example, you know, making sure you said that when he pulls, you correct him and bring him back. [SPEAKER_00]: Like the timing of that is really crucial. [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you put him into a sit and a stay, and then let's say your dog trainer got out of the car and he's like, whoop, and he pulled.

38:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And he got, you know, all the way extended on your leash and then you pulled him back, it's better than not, but it's not the, it's not what you're supposed to be doing if you put them into a, for an example, if you put them into a sit, the moment he gets out of his sit, bang correction, nope.

38:40 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't want to wait for him to lunge and extend your leash because the crime has already been committed. [SPEAKER_00]: You can't take it back. [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like somebody that's just about ready to throw something on your really pretty walls. [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, once it's done, it's like, oh, now we're just cleaning up.

38:54 [SPEAKER_00]: You want to catch them right before they do it, so you don't have to clean up. [SPEAKER_00]: You see what I'm saying? [SPEAKER_00]: So your timing is because that's the difference between your dog learning and your dog not learning. [SPEAKER_00]: Like once they've already committed the crime, you can't talk them out of it.

39:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I already did it. [SPEAKER_00]: Oops. [SPEAKER_00]: So those are important things. [SPEAKER_00]: Those little minor little tiny things make a huge difference. [SPEAKER_00]: Don't try to backpattle out of a situation prevent them from happening with your timing. [SPEAKER_00]: So again, you're walking towards the dock.

39:23 [SPEAKER_00]: He gets here, we're stopping here. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is where I drown the land. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not getting any closer because it's just going to get harder for me. [SPEAKER_01]: OK. Do you have a problem with me walking him in situations like the village where there's a lot of dogs and people, like some people believe that you need to do, I mean, we do the distance work.

39:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're successful. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I feel like then we get to the close-up work and we're not. [SPEAKER_01]: And I've had people that are like, well, he's not ready for that, but I'm like, well, if we don't start doing that. [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess can we do that if I am doing the corrections and if I'm doing the right thing because you're kind of saying that I need to like have him working and doing these obedience, but I don't know how to get from where he's successful to where he's not without being around it.

40:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a great question. [SPEAKER_00]: So again, I always have three levels of obedience beginning intermediate and advanced just to make it easy. [SPEAKER_00]: So do more of intermediate, do more of like level two. [SPEAKER_00]: So go out with him outside, but maybe not at the park, maybe in your driveway, in your yard, in your neighborhood where you can control the environment a little bit more and start working on these things.

40:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And then as you get more comfortable, you start to get into more advanced stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's totally okay to go to the park. [SPEAKER_00]: You just have to you have to be mindful of your space So if if you're working from a distance awesome in your successful great The moment that you get closer that's where you really have to audit what's going wrong.

40:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Typically what happens is This is what happens almost I would say 85% of the time this is the problem. [SPEAKER_00]: I did this just the other day somebody sent me a video in real time while we were doing this [SPEAKER_00]: and she said I'm doing all the right I'm correcting I'm using the prong collar and I'm as soon as and and and I and then I looked at the video and everything she said was right but she did it all the wrong time so it's like the context really matters so yeah [SPEAKER_00]: let's say for an example you're in a park and there is a dog in a person, let's say hundred feet away and you're walking and as they're walking towards you and you're walking towards them the moment and I don't know the number of the feet where your dog would do this but the moment your dog

41:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Perks up. [SPEAKER_00]: That's when you have to, that's when you have to de-escalate. [SPEAKER_00]: The moment your dog starts to like, ears perk up, chest perks up, you can see him start to go, oh, this is going to be a party. [SPEAKER_00]: And so because it's kind of like smoke before the fire, like you don't want to have the firefighters over you just want to catch the smoke first and put it out, right?

42:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So a little problem, you don't want it to be a big problem. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the mistake dog owners make. [SPEAKER_00]: So you have to have de-escalation exercises in order to be successful for that. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just correct your dog when they get overly stimulated. [SPEAKER_00]: It can be that if you do it at the right time.

42:17 [SPEAKER_00]: But oftentimes, people wait for the fire to happen. [SPEAKER_00]: They wait to go, I'm just going to wait for this little tiny piece of smoke to get into an engulfing flame of fire before I start to try to put it out. [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's really difficult. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, yeah, you think.

42:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So make sure that you're reading the situation properly with your de-escalation exercises. [SPEAKER_00]: The moment he starts to go, I think that you can see it, things start to roll. [SPEAKER_00]: That's where you would go, hey, leave it, don't even think about it, correction. [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes that works, and if it doesn't move to step two, which is going to be your inside turn.

42:51 [SPEAKER_00]: He's on your left leg, you do an inside turn. [SPEAKER_00]: You start walking the other way five steps you turn back around that's the important thing Like I don't go back home like you don't want to avoid the situation completely You want to help him learn how to deal with this We're not trying to avoid it because he's not a mean dog if you had a really mean dog that [SPEAKER_00]: Try to kill every dog you'd see.

43:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd say, yeah, I avoid it. [SPEAKER_00]: Probably, probably better, like it's a safer, less risk. [SPEAKER_00]: But you go out, he starts to build, knock it off. [SPEAKER_00]: He goes, yeah, but inside turn, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So you're removing him. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you're coming back.

43:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, just a little bit of that, you're out and out and in. [SPEAKER_00]: And you can handle, like, even if a dog is consistently walking right at you, [SPEAKER_00]: You can remove him from the space and back into this space because you have your own space to use the most part unless you're on a tiny little thing, but Yeah, so that's what I would do is just understand your timing because so many like if you told me hey Tom I'm out for walk with my dog and I'm correct you name it.

43:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm using the prong column doing all the things [SPEAKER_00]: And then I'm watching you and you're getting so close to the other dog. [SPEAKER_00]: And your dog is literally, your dog is on paper going, I'm about to freak out like warning signs, like wrap, wrap, wrap, and they're getting ready and you get close and you're like, I can feel it and then all of a sudden your dog reacts and you're like, look, I can't stop him and I'm like, [SPEAKER_00]: all of that could have been avoided with de-escalation.

44:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I talk if you want like you've spent a lot of money in time. [SPEAKER_00]: Another option for you just just to get more education from what I'm saying is I have a reactivity course that would be helpful which unpacks the de-escalation exercise specifically like I do it with the dog and I can show you within real time.

44:38 [SPEAKER_00]: But really, it's that inside turn, you turn inside to the dog and you go the other way just to start to put the fire out, chill out dude, you go back and you come back and the goal for your dog is to be able to learn how to deal with this. [SPEAKER_00]: The other big piece to this would be rewards and motivation.

45:07 [SPEAKER_00]: will decide like what they're interested in, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And so sometimes you can get away with like, hey, I got a piece of food in your dog is like, I like that more than the dog, or more than whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes not, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So sometimes, you know, the other dog, and it typically is an environmental proximity case, which means if the dog is far enough away, they'll take the food.

45:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you kind of have this facade where you're like, [SPEAKER_00]: and then you get closer and the dog starts to snuff up the food, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because now the real thing that's getting closer is much more interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: But that is another play, obviously, within this, because sometimes the way that it works is the dog will start to, like, let's say, like, you know, one through ten.

45:56 [SPEAKER_00]: They start to climb two, three, four, five, correction. [SPEAKER_00]: You bring it back down to a two and they'll take food again. [SPEAKER_00]: So there is kind of like this, so it's not a one-size-fits-all method or exercise or technique or this is what you should do at all. [SPEAKER_00]: It is quite literally a multifaceted, um, here's what I'm going to do if this happens.

46:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you have to, you have to have another thing loaded in the chamber and getting ready to do the moment that the thing you just tried doesn't work. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you can figure out what works really for you and your dog. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I like how you were talking about like the food will work and it totally does, you know, I can let him at the end of the leash and then it turns it looks of the end.

46:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I just and I treat and he comes back to me and we can continue that and he does a great job. [SPEAKER_01]: But when he is too close, he's super fixated. [SPEAKER_01]: I can't even get him to like look to me to even let him see the food. [SPEAKER_01]: Like how do you then when they're like, [SPEAKER_01]: fixating on this dog.

47:01 [SPEAKER_01]: How do you get them to even see this reward over here if they're not looking your way? [SPEAKER_00]: Good question. [SPEAKER_00]: So what I don't do, or try not to do is I don't stiff the, you know, slam the food in the dog's face because dogs know what you got. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they can smell, you know what I mean?

47:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Like they are, there knows is a hundred thousand times more powerful than ours. [SPEAKER_00]: Like they know what you got. [SPEAKER_00]: and so you don't you don't have to go out of your way to like do a circus to say look over here once the dog is ready and willing to engage with you to say what's interesting that you have now mom then you can pay and so that's what I do is I kind of just [SPEAKER_00]: But I also have a cue to get to look, so if I have a cue for a dog to look at me or behavior, like if you said sit down, stay, one of the cues would be look or focus and the dog would look at you.

47:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And if I did that and every time I asked my dog to do that, they got paid, I'm giving my dog an option. [SPEAKER_00]: If I say, look and they go screw you, dude, this is, you know, they're locked in. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a decision, you know, it's a decision, you know, that they're making, they're flipping you off and saying, no, don't care about your stupid food.

48:17 [SPEAKER_00]: This dog is near me and I'm interested. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's a real thing like, like, so many people try to just use food to train their dog to do everything and it becomes a facade and it becomes a liability once the food doesn't matter. [SPEAKER_00]: I know you said that the beginning is like, what if I don't have food?

48:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, you shouldn't depend on [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter if it's food or prawn collars and e-colars, these are, the, the, the equipment is just like the training wheels in the beginning, like they're really helpful to teach what we want, but it's something that we shouldn't solely rely on.

48:53 [SPEAKER_00]: like the the objective of food and pawn colors and e-colors is for our voice to have power. [SPEAKER_00]: So when we say sit and the dog does we pay him and they go dang this is sick. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to sit every time because I get paid. [SPEAKER_00]: I love this sitting and this healing and this leave it in this recall thing.

49:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Same thing on punishment ends. [SPEAKER_00]: If I say sit and the dog says screw you bang they get corrections. [SPEAKER_00]: Our voice has the power. [SPEAKER_00]: And the tool is just helping reinforce and enforce these things. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's where a lot of trainers get it wrong.

49:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Is there so heavy handed on the corrections or they're like a pest dispenser and the dog shifts in one way or the other and a lot of times they go, I don't care about this and the dog [SPEAKER_00]: has a hard time learning. [SPEAKER_00]: Right? [SPEAKER_00]: It's like if we were to give kids candy to go to school, it's like, once the candy's gone, not only are they out of there, but they're so focused on the candy, it's like, oh, what did you learn at school today?

49:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, [SPEAKER_00]: I just hate candy the whole time. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know what they were saying. [SPEAKER_00]: I was just there for the candy. [SPEAKER_00]: So there's this real big problem with that, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Where you have to just take everything with the grain of salt and say, okay, these tools are going to help correct and enforce things.

50:05 [SPEAKER_00]: These tools are going to help to reinforce things and help the dog be motivated, but you don't want to lean too heavy on one or the other. [SPEAKER_00]: You kind of want to be right down the middle. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So, so anyway, so let's do it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was going to ask you about like next.

50:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Like do you like I can take a lot of videos of a lot of different things and we could do another call or I could send them to you or I'm not opposed to driving there for I obviously can't fly my dog, New York, but what like. [SPEAKER_01]: do you think that like I know you have a few different courses that I have no problem doing I just don't know where I would fall at.

50:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say this the the the best thing for you right now we are developing what we had this before but we're redoing like our online portal where you we work weekly and you send me footage but I don't know when that's going to be done so the best thing to do right now is to take my reactivity course and then book another session and when you book another [SPEAKER_00]: email me all of the footage of of what you're doing and then that way when we happen a call just like this the next time I can go through same thing I normally go through people they're saying I'm doing this and I'm doing that and I'm like oh no no no no no yes you're doing it you're doing it wrong that's why you know and and that's this you know it's the same thing like you you watch a YouTube video on somebody like you know putting together a

51:39 [SPEAKER_00]: What am I missing? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing exactly what they're doing. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, you're just, you're not. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's one, there's one ingredient that's off. [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's that would be my recommendation. [SPEAKER_00]: But for the, I just want to really briefly before we get off.

51:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about the kids. [SPEAKER_00]: So when you're, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just it's called it's it's called a reactive to neutral just one I mean I have a couple of different courses, but that's the one I would I would start off with because you're advanced and everything else so with the kids You can't change dogs personality you can't change who they are meaning you can't change their genetics you can't change what the so a dog that instinctually does something you can't change so like a retriever that wants to chase dogs [SPEAKER_00]: a terrier that wants to chase rodents like you can't change that it's like how do I stop this I'm like you can't You can recall them you can tell them to leave it, but they're always gonna want to do certain things So for an example some a dog Like somebody rings the doorbell and your dog barks again.

52:46 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot of people like how do I stop that Mike? [SPEAKER_00]: You can't stop it. [SPEAKER_00]: You can reduce the duration of the parking. [SPEAKER_00]: You could counter-condition it, but the reality is, is your dog's like only job in life is to park when somebody's at the house. [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's like every dog's job.

53:01 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like when it continues and they ignore you and you say stop, that's an issue. [SPEAKER_00]: So same thing with like the girls coming in the house, it's this kind of a stimulating thing where it's like this energy is like bursting through the door and your dog's like, oh my god, you know, so for me if it's hard because if you're not going to be there at all times, which you're not.

53:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Meaning you're not going to be standing in the kitchen every single time your daughter and friends will walk through the door like you're not going to be prepared for that meaning So this is not a train. [SPEAKER_00]: That's not a dog training thing. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a that's a personality thing.

53:35 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a breed thing. [SPEAKER_00]: That's your dog's, you know, thing like that's who they are, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So when you are So a couple things if you're standing there it would become place stay [SPEAKER_00]: So your daughter's burst through the door, your dog runs over with that excitement.

53:51 [SPEAKER_00]: It's up to you. [SPEAKER_00]: If you're like, oh no, he's going to run up, he's going to be fine. [SPEAKER_00]: But if he runs up and you're like, he's making more importantly, if he's making your daughter's friends nervous, or even you nervous, where you're like, don't scratch, don't jump, don't bite, don't put your mouth, whatever.

54:06 [SPEAKER_00]: that's where your obedience comes in right so vans come place stay so you're not stopping what he wants to do you're not making him like your daughter's friend you're just telling him here's what I want you to do differently okay this is in your own benefit you have to come here and you have to stay here [SPEAKER_00]: Just like you go to a really fun place, like the Disney world for your kids and they're like so excited.

54:29 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to stop them from being excited. [SPEAKER_00]: What you can do is you can say you need to wait for mommy, you need to hold my hand and you need to pay attention. [SPEAKER_00]: All you can do is just keep them safe with exercises and commands they already know. [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's what you can do.

54:42 [SPEAKER_00]: The other alternative and or in conjunction with that would be when your kids do come in [SPEAKER_00]: When you come into the house, can you either let us know, or there's got to be some sort of management in place? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you told me, hey, I have a dog, and I have younger kids, and I don't know what my dog will do to my daughters and my other kids' friends, because as your other kids grow up and things like that.

55:12 [SPEAKER_00]: if you don't know it would be more of a management thing like if you're unsure of what your dog would do it's not about training it's about liability of man I really don't know if I can trust a hundred percent what he would do and of course you always want to try to be a hundred like you want to give your life on the line to be like I'm cool with this especially with kids other people's kids more and more importantly [SPEAKER_00]: So, so that's more of a management thing where you are making sure, hey, I'm not, hey, I'm going to be gone for the day or I'm not going to be around or I'm working in my office or whatever, you make sure you know that and your kids are going to be in and out.

55:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a weekend. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the summer. [SPEAKER_00]: You need to make sure you know what your dog is. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not saying this in a way of like, your dog is going to go attack people, but there is a management thing here. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want you to think. [SPEAKER_00]: that we can train your dog, that when your friend's daughter's come in, that he just walks over calmly and just doesn't care.

56:06 [SPEAKER_00]: He's always going to care. [SPEAKER_00]: He's telling you that's who I am. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I am doing this because of who I am. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that is a natural thing to do. [SPEAKER_00]: So instead of trying to put a square and around hole and just pretend like, oh, I've been training on that not happening.

56:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, no, he's that's just what he's going to do. [SPEAKER_00]: It's more of a [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, that would be my recommendation. [SPEAKER_00]: I just [SPEAKER_00]: There's no reality that we live in where something like that is your dog is like jumping sure that's a training thing.

56:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Things like that like pulling on the leash like those are all training things but your daughter's friends coming in and your dog getting right into their space and getting overly stimulated and potentially even like putting their mouth on them that's all like I'm a dog and this is what I want to do is this dog like I'm this dog to do that that's how I feel.

57:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you already know, same thing for me and my dogs like, and I always say this, if at any point in time my dog were to be a danger to my kids, the dog would not be in my house. [SPEAKER_00]: That's it. [SPEAKER_00]: But I should back up. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying what I mean like intentionally dangerous right like I don't like you and I'm going to hurt you over this I'm not saying like your dog getting nippy is a dangerous situation all I'm saying is is like I do not take that lightly that is not okay.

57:35 [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, I talk to so many people where they're like, oh, my kids are adults or I don't have kids like, yeah, you can that's a completely different story, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So for you, it would be more of like a manage where's the dog where the kids, what's the schedule like, who's coming over and having a conversation with your daughter like, hey, make sure if you're bringing friends over just let us know so we know.

57:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so if I'm not going to be here and her friends are here, I put him in the phrase. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm like that. [SPEAKER_01]: That's it. [SPEAKER_01]: Done. [SPEAKER_01]: And I've decided now with that interaction, if she comes over or somebody else, he doesn't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll, I'll keep his leash and prom collar on him just so that he's in arms reach.

58:17 [SPEAKER_01]: If I have to, just if I have to. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, I'll be part cognizant on. [SPEAKER_01]: He's never done anything like that before. [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if it has anything to do with the park his own could couldn't I don't know that it really matters I just don't want to put him or obviously if you meant any sort of Yeah, but yeah, yeah, no it does it does and those are just like the management skills you have to have like do you do you know and even for me It's like and for you it's like you know your mom of three you said yeah three so it's like [SPEAKER_00]: and you have a job and it's like, do you have the skills to just like manage?

58:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, no, it's like, I need to put this dog away at this time. [SPEAKER_00]: Keep him in there, keep the stress down, keep the anxiety down, whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: So the e-colour is your best friend in those situations, but again, it's not just, I shouldn't say that. [SPEAKER_00]: your e-collar training is your best friend.

59:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you should, if your dog is that type of dog, you need even if your dog was like really big, but it was obsessed with kids. [SPEAKER_00]: Like therapy dog, shouldn't say that, back up. [SPEAKER_00]: What is it? [SPEAKER_00]: Not therapy dog, not service dog. [SPEAKER_00]: yeah therapy dog yeah therapy dog level looks like anyway yeah if your dog is like super excited and is so stable like and never had an issue but was a jumper or big knocking kids over or whatever it's like your obedience same thing we were talking about before is your obedience is really important to lean on come place stay you can you could get away with anything with recall place stay [SPEAKER_00]: Get out of the situation, go over here, that's your spot, and don't move.

1:00:03 [SPEAKER_00]: You could get away with anything with mastering those three things off-leash. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah, that's you. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to eat our training? [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have one of those? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I have a course on that, too. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

1:00:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So I have the eat. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the e-colour course, yeah, because what you went through was not as you know, as you already know, not idea. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you can't win them all. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: that guy had all these, like, he said he had these logos saying, well, these certifications that I look up, they're not even, and something about being on good morning America too, and I know he was that.

1:00:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's no, like, I look, like, I look, I look, I should send you his page. [SPEAKER_01]: There's something, and he did these, he does all these videos on Instagram where it's like the before, like the one, you don't know, and then, like, they're very short clips and then the dogs walking perfectly.

1:01:01 [SPEAKER_01]: What happened? [SPEAKER_01]: What did you say? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's, when you're talking about e-colour, the how is, is sometimes a question that I, I will ask, but you know, that's, that's a thing like, it's an interesting conversation because a lot of dog people will send me clips of like people like that and they're like, you should, and I'm like, I don't need to do anything with this person.

1:01:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Dog owners do their critical thinking skills and you go, [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe this isn't a good idea. [SPEAKER_00]: Like you, you know, you learned your lesson unfortunately, but it's like you got to kiss some frogs sometimes Unfortunately, it's not you know, and I tell people that all the time somebody could have amazing reviews and have these certifications It's like if you go there and What you're seeing makes you uncomfortable and it's not making sense.

1:01:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not sitting right get out of there and you did That's what you do and then you look back. [SPEAKER_00]: You go. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, all that shit was fake like that you're not this is not no [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, this makes sense. [SPEAKER_01]: That's just a bit of Instagram's fake, so.

1:01:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, so you just, it happens, you know, it's like going to a restaurant that had really good reviews and you're like, everyone at the table's like service sucks, food's okay, it's like, man, you know, but maybe, you know, maybe, maybe, maybe it was a, [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, you know, they were short-handed.

1:02:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's all it's all that, but I'm glad that we had an opportunity to connect and I wish you the best of luck and yeah, if you want to do this again, just book again and then send me some videos in advance And I can watch him in real time and kind of coach you through it [SPEAKER_01]: How long does that reactivity force take?

1:02:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Not long. [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's like an hour and change. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a module form. [SPEAKER_00]: So you kind of go through it at your leisure. [SPEAKER_00]: You can get it done in less than two hours if you wanted to go all the way through. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it's all module breakdowns of each chapter.

1:02:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll do that. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I'll take some videos and send them and schedule. [SPEAKER_00]: So. [SPEAKER_00]: Cool. [SPEAKER_00]: That'd be great. [SPEAKER_00]: All right, cool. [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk to you soon.