E406- This Dog Bit Several People...The Owner Wants Neutrality

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey guys, this is an amazing pod with a conversation with a dog owner who probably didn't want to hear what I have to say. [SPEAKER_00]: And as you guys know, I tell people what they need to hear not what they want to hear. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is a common issue that a lot of people have with dogs who have a bite history, dogs who are aggressive, dogs who don't like other people.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you do? [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people have unrealistic expectations in which makes their life a living hell and very frustrating and dangerous. [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to go over exactly what these things are, and if you do have a dog with a bite history or a dog, it doesn't like other people, it's this problem with the conversation you need to hear, but you might not want to hear it, but it's the safest thing for you and your dog to keep your dog alive and to keep you out of trouble.

[SPEAKER_00]: So enjoy this podcast guys and thanks for listening. [SPEAKER_00]: Bye. [SPEAKER_01]: Hello. [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, this is Tom. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Tom. [SPEAKER_01]: This is Amber. [SPEAKER_00]: Amber, how are you doing? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing good. [SPEAKER_01]: How are you? [SPEAKER_00]: Doing good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks. [SPEAKER_00]: Did you want to face time or just chat in the phone? [SPEAKER_00]: It's up to you. [SPEAKER_01]: Either one is fine. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm fine with face time as well. [SPEAKER_01]: If you actually do want to see Loki, I do have him here with me. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's up to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it doesn't matter to me. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't need it. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't need to see him for the training or anything. [SPEAKER_00]: Some people just, there reason why I ask is some people like expect it. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I don't want to disappoint anybody. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's completely up to you.

[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I'd either want to find. [SPEAKER_00]: OK. We're just chatting the phone. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little easier. [SPEAKER_00]: So what's going on? [SPEAKER_01]: So we have, sorry, we have had problems with locking. [SPEAKER_01]: being aggressive towards other people that he is, you know, not familiar with.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, he's fine with my husband's family because he grew up with that family. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, he's fine with me. [SPEAKER_01]: He's fine with my husband's best friend, but everyone else, he, he will try to attack them. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: When did this start? [SPEAKER_00]: When did this start?

[SPEAKER_01]: He kind of just grew into it. [SPEAKER_01]: He [SPEAKER_01]: wasn't ever really socialized as a puppy. [SPEAKER_01]: It used to be he was kind of more skittish around people, more scared to avoid them. [SPEAKER_01]: But now he will actually run towards part, grow, try to buy all of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: OK, we're going to dog is he? [SPEAKER_01]: He is a master in Italy and Trevor miss. [SPEAKER_01]: He is a very big dog. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Sounds like it. [SPEAKER_00]: OK. [SPEAKER_00]: So how old is he? [SPEAKER_01]: I, he actually just turned three last month. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so three years old and Italian mix, and he is aggressively going after people he doesn't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: And, okay, what have you done so far? [SPEAKER_00]: Let's break it down. [SPEAKER_01]: We have found the prime, not very effective, but he does, he does something to the prime. [SPEAKER_01]: We have tried a training collar, it kind of works kind of training collar.

[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, it's just a premier pet brand. [SPEAKER_00]: You mean like a like an E collar, you mean? [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, got it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and it has a remote with the vibrator and it makes the sound stuff like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So that that that that wasn't helpful.

[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of if you listen to it, but it also just we can't seem to break them off it either. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: So explain to me what you guys do. [SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me explain to me what you guys do. [SPEAKER_00]: So let's say, you know, he you have people over.

[SPEAKER_00]: You bring them for a walk or whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: What do you guys do when this happens? [SPEAKER_01]: We don't have people very often because of him, but whenever he does start to build up, we do use a vibrant on the collar. [SPEAKER_01]: It usually gets his attention at the same of the prong, but he still only seems like he's on high alert, not wanting to listen if I make [SPEAKER_01]: In just in case, he does have a bite history.

[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, he has been a couple of people. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so get someone a couple of weeks to go. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I finally said. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, let's talk to a trainer. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So what is your ultimate goal?

[SPEAKER_00]: Would you say with him? [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, be able to have people over and not worry about him trying to bite everyone. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: and when you say worry do you mean like you want him to be able to be out and not bite people like out while kind of around with you guys and you're in your company and stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: It would be nice. [SPEAKER_01]: It would be really nice. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay so it went when women's his first like I know you said he kind of was since you've gotten him he's kind of been [SPEAKER_00]: sketchy a new people I guess, but when did it get like really to a point where you're like, okay, this is bad or we can't have people over or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like when did when women's that step happen? [SPEAKER_01]: Um, really it was before me my husband moved in together. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, he lived over with his mom and his brothers. [SPEAKER_01]: But before we moved in together, he [SPEAKER_01]: That's when he really started embarking, he nipped at one of our friends and after that, why has been, and his family kind of just kept them to the side away from people.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like if we were to be outside and there's other people who would be on a tie-down out of the way, not even near people, they'd you would sit there and bark at everyone. [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: And who lives in your house with you in the dog? [SPEAKER_01]: It's just me and my husband.

[SPEAKER_01]: We do have a almost two-year-old German shepherd. [SPEAKER_01]: He is fine with her and we have a two-year-old cat as well. [SPEAKER_01]: That he is fine with. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So it sounds like anything new is a no-go. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, especially people. [SPEAKER_01]: Other animals he seems to be fine with.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So here's my first gut reaction and suggestion. [SPEAKER_00]: So to me, given his breeds, I don't think he's ever going to just not care about people. [SPEAKER_00]: When you have a dog that instinctually, because he's doing it all of this out of instinct, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So he's going after people for no reason. [SPEAKER_00]: So that just tells us like that's what he wants to do. [SPEAKER_00]: regardless of his full intentions of whether or not he's conflicted or just being protective or he just doesn't like people, whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: That would be a hard thing to do and frankly dangerous.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you have a dog that has a bite history, especially other people, right? [SPEAKER_00]: getting him around new people and other people without any restrictions or anything like that would be pretty dangerous for everyone. [SPEAKER_00]: It'd be dangerous for him because if you made a mistake or obviously be dangerous and for other people but also the amount of stress that you would put on yourself is so let's just say I came in with a magic wand and said I don't think he's going [SPEAKER_00]: you're still going to.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're still going to be nervous. [SPEAKER_00]: You're still going like you personally will still be like oh I don't know I don't know I don't know so the amount of stress you're still going to have because of his bite history is still going to be there it's not going to really take it away.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think the the best thing to do is a lot of I mean there's there's training that you can do here's the thing if if we said okay we're going to get this dog Super trained where he has a really good place and he has a really good stay and You know, maybe he doesn't like new people but he listens to us really well that is that is really good for a best case scenario there [SPEAKER_00]: However, the success of the dog is then going to be predicated off of the people the people that are there and that's that kind of runs into a excuse me It runs into an issue because You're still exposing him to potential risk of you know biting somebody which is not good [SPEAKER_00]: So, for me, again, with this dog, because you have two really protective, well, at least one, for sure, I don't know the other master part, but you have a really protective breed.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, it sounds to me like that's what's happening. [SPEAKER_00]: It is really, really protective because of, you know, a lot of his breed, but it also could be because of how you guys have handled them and how you have worked with them, or lack thereof. [SPEAKER_00]: So there's that too.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it could be a combination of, you know, you guys didn't train or whatever the heck it is or how you treat him or how your relationship with is with him and now he's, you know, really aggressive towards people because of that. [SPEAKER_00]: How much training have you done with him since you've had him?

[SPEAKER_01]: really been getting into trying to try and him. [SPEAKER_01]: We have kind of built them to where he doesn't bark as much when there are people out back. [SPEAKER_01]: We have them on a tile out of the way so that he doesn't bark or doesn't bite anyone. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's gotten better about the not barking at everyone, but if anyone gets even near him, he will start going nuts.

[SPEAKER_00]: What type of training have you done with them? [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, mostly the basics, because he is so big. [SPEAKER_01]: I can't really handle him on a leash that well in case he does and about trying to bowl at someone who's called me along, because he is as big as I. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, so mostly just working on a [SPEAKER_01]: reactivity when he is outside.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, what do you do when he's reactive outside? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, let's say somebody comes to the house and he is acting like he's going to rip their head off. [SPEAKER_00]: How do you handle that? [SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell him leave it. [SPEAKER_01]: Use the vibrate on the e-collar when he does start [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I know that people are going to be over, then we will use the pawn color. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: He's on the title. [SPEAKER_01]: And so that if he does bowl, at least he's not going to get to them. [SPEAKER_00]: See the problem. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that makes sense. [SPEAKER_00]: The problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: How does the, how does the E collar work when you use it like that? [SPEAKER_01]: How does it function? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, how does he react to it? [SPEAKER_00]: What's his reaction to that correctly? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to, what kind of background am I take a little bit for it to finally cook in his head?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, oh, I shouldn't be that. [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: The only problem with that is being on a tieback really can make a dog really frustrated. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's what I would worry about the most is right now it sounds like he's too big and powerful for you to handle, but when he's on the tieback it makes him more frustrated because when we train dogs to like for protection, [SPEAKER_00]: Like when we actually train dogs for protection work, that's exactly what they do to get the dog to get worked up is they put them on a tieback and they put the aggressor in front of them and basically the dog just gets so worked up and ticked off and that's kind of how that works and so to me it doesn't so again like I'm trying to be realistic because if you

[SPEAKER_00]: if you have a dog that's aggressive you have a dog with a bite history can and will bite but you can't handle the dog then the only option you have is to manage him forever [SPEAKER_00]: That's it, because you can't control him when he decides to fire off, in order to mean so that's the reality of what you're dealing with is if you wanted to actually start to potentially try to change his behavior around other people you couldn't even if you wanted to because he's too big and powerful.

[SPEAKER_01]: do more with him, but with him being at work five days out of the week. [SPEAKER_01]: He just doesn't. [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't work with him as much as he should. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like that's been our main problem is my husband is the one that can do it. [SPEAKER_01]: effectively, but.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: He just does. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's really, you know, again, like the reality is is you have to look at, you have to look at the reality. [SPEAKER_00]: If you look at the situation and say, [SPEAKER_00]: So again, we have a dog that again has a bite history so again if he bites somebody else it could be deadly for him and of course We don't want anybody to get hurt.

[SPEAKER_00]: We don't want to get sued But if nobody's willing to handle the dog or can like you you're willing, but you can't and your husband can but he's not willing So so then you kind of like you know you can't really each other out where you can't handle the dog and that's I think that that's kind of like where you where you lie right now is [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have the ability to really go through the training protocols, to to figure things out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you couldn't even tinker with it. [SPEAKER_00]: You couldn't even like, well, let me just, you know, get them around some people and see if we can work on leave it. [SPEAKER_00]: See if we can work on play, see if we can work on recall or whatever, because nobody can, nobody, you can't handle them.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: So from my perspective, right? [SPEAKER_00]: It's hey Tom, we have this aggressive dog by nature. [SPEAKER_00]: Like he doesn't like new people. [SPEAKER_00]: He has bitten somebody. [SPEAKER_00]: He will bite somebody again if given the opportunity. [SPEAKER_00]: We need to really, we want him to be more neutral around people potentially, but nobody can handle them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, well, I don't I don't really know what else what else you could do because you if if you can't handle them and you're hasn't won't handle them then it's like you're just kind of still stuck to where you're at where would else you know what are options do you have right where it's like.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: The only other option you have is I think you said he's muzzle condition or whatever like you could hire a trainer to come over to help you potentially help him. [SPEAKER_00]: But right now it's kind of a it's a bad situation because you basically have a you know I this is metaphorically speaking like a junkyard dog where you have a dog that's on a tieback that's naturally [SPEAKER_00]: And that's all, that's the only thing he's really getting, is he's getting exposed to dogs in that scenario with an immense amount of frustration and it's probably making things worse.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and again, nobody can handle the dogs, so it's like, to me personally, your safest option is to probably do what you're already doing is to manage him and not have anybody around him like it's just, it's just doesn't, it's not going to happen, it's off limits like, [SPEAKER_00]: People aren't going to engage with him.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's not going to engage with people and that's the life he's going to live because again, like nobody's able to really handle this dog. [SPEAKER_00]: So you can't make progression on a dog. [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody's nobody can handle. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's not it's not something that you can do like.

[SPEAKER_00]: like a computer, like you can like I can log into your dog's brain right now off my computer and remotely work with him like you you have to have somebody put them on a leash and start working on these things, but again if you can't handle them and your husband won't your your your your stuck like you there's there's no there's no real place you can go here because you can't just [SPEAKER_00]: you know, unfortunately wave a magic wand and things are better.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the best thing to do and the safest thing to do is to continue to push people away and just make sure that you guys are playing zookeeper on them. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: And say that I can give my husband to actually work with him. [SPEAKER_01]: What would be the best options for that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, good question. [SPEAKER_00]: So for me, it would be teaching him as basics. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, he's got to have, well, I shouldn't, yeah, the first of all, you start with the basics and then leading up to advanced obedience. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what would you say right now? [SPEAKER_00]: His obedience is like, like, how, how likely is he to listen to your husband, right now on the leash?

[SPEAKER_01]: He has always done pretty good on the leash considering he can't really go on the [SPEAKER_01]: He listens pretty good actually. [SPEAKER_01]: He seems to be a really smart dog of, you know, most of the basics. [SPEAKER_01]: We've actually recently taught him plays and it clicked good. [SPEAKER_01]: It was amazing, honestly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good, yeah, that's what you want. [SPEAKER_00]: So you would be doing things like that. [SPEAKER_00]: You'd put them on a leash and you'd start working on. [SPEAKER_00]: So again, he's never going to be a dog that's going to just like people. [SPEAKER_00]: He's not, that's just not going to be him.

[SPEAKER_00]: But your job is to, again, so let me ask you this, what is the, [SPEAKER_00]: when you are like when you said your goal was to have him around people like what's the context like are you like in a perfect world are you just wanting him to be in your house kind of like bozing around and then people just come in and him not care is that what you're looking for what is your [SPEAKER_01]: like know that he won't try to bite anyone.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: I know it's probably, you know, reaching for the stars type of thing, but if it was at all possible, I would like them to at least be neutral around people not have to worry about him, you know, going up attacking anyone. [SPEAKER_01]: that's like a thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And can you give me like a can you give me like the actual context like when you say and I understand what you're saying is you don't want to go out and invite somebody you know whatever I get that but like are they are they do you just want people to be able to like walk in your house like how how do you see this playing out.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is nice. [SPEAKER_01]: The house I feel like would be kind of a stretch about at least being in the yard [SPEAKER_01]: I know it probably won't happen and can't just have them be able to walk around the yards without hurting anyone. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so if someone does happen to come up, he won't immediately go after them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so so and I'm just trying to paint a picture just so I can answer to this Effectively for you. [SPEAKER_00]: So let's say you Um, let's say you Somebody comes to somebody drives up into your your house or your yard or whatever You're talking like when somebody gets out of their car to come up like a friend or a neighbor or something You want to make sure that he doesn't go up and try to attack them Yes [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so in that context, you would have to have a really good, see here's the problem is your husband would have to be around for this, so what it sounds like, like if he's the only one who can really get him out into it and I'm not saying you can't, I'm just saying when you have a big strong dog that you know when he decides to go, you can't hit, you can't hold onto him.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like, [SPEAKER_00]: very circumstantial. [SPEAKER_00]: The success is very circumstantial. [SPEAKER_00]: We can only be successful here under these circumstances. [SPEAKER_00]: My suggestion for you is to really go through proper remote collar training. [SPEAKER_00]: Like that would be ideal, like you're the one who teaches in the remote collar and how to work on the remote collar and what it means and you do the extent you do the extensive remote collar training so you can you can very safely but reliably recall him if he doesn't listen or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that, to me, is like where your key to success is, so as far as the training goes, it would be remote collar training. [SPEAKER_00]: If you're unfamiliar with the proper introduction, I would highly suggest taking my remote collar intro course, because it goes through exactly not only what it is, what it's supposed to be, but how to do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then outside of that, my suggestion would be, again, like, let's say you're hanging out in your house and somebody pulls up. [SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to be able to ever stop him from wanting to go and be protective. [SPEAKER_00]: That's never going to happen. [SPEAKER_00]: That's just the type of dog he is.

[SPEAKER_00]: However, if you can get him to come back and lay down in the day, [SPEAKER_00]: that's what you're going to be able to do but right now with his bite history you have a loaded gun and in my professional opinion it would not be a good idea to just expect him to be able to just wander around and not care about people because he's already proven to you that's not him.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we can't tell this fish. [SPEAKER_00]: We can't tell this fish not to swim here because that's just a liability. [SPEAKER_00]: I know that it would be ideal to just have like a happy go lucky golden retriever run around and go up and greet everybody. [SPEAKER_00]: But not only is he not that dog, he's proven to you like if you give him an opportunity to bite somebody he will.

[SPEAKER_00]: And again, that's not good for you, it's not good for him, and obviously it's not good for the person who just got nailed by this dog already has a bite history that's wandering around freely. [SPEAKER_00]: So my suggestion would be, like if you are going to have him off leash and you're going to be able to safely get him around other people and like your world, like, you know, if you just want him off leash, like you have to have good e-car training.

[SPEAKER_00]: it's not just turn on the vibrate on the e-colour when he doesn't listen, it's when somebody unexpectedly shows up to your house and he's already halfway to that person. [SPEAKER_00]: You need a really good recall and you need an e-colour that actually snaps him out of what he's doing and stops him to dead in his tracks, and that would be the road map there for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it does. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: That's an odd would do, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So you have to have good e-colour skills. [SPEAKER_00]: You also have to have the foundation of what you want your dog to do. [SPEAKER_00]: So you have to have a really good recall.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have to have a really good down. [SPEAKER_00]: So at any point in time, you can down your dog wherever he's at. [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to be important. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: And you have to have the e-colour intro to make sure that you can reach out and actually touch him [SPEAKER_01]: okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that makes sense. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that's that's what you need to do is [SPEAKER_00]: really work out your advanced obedience, which means downing him off leash, recalling him off leash, and using the remote collar to be able to enforce those behaviors off leash at any point in time.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's so, I mean, you asked about what you should be doing if you are going to train, and that's how you do it. [SPEAKER_00]: But the reality is, is he's already proven to you. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like people. [SPEAKER_00]: I will bite them. [SPEAKER_00]: So we shouldn't try to expose him to those risks.

[SPEAKER_00]: It would be a big liability if you did. [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, I mean, it sucks. [SPEAKER_00]: So there is no training that you can do to have him like these new people. [SPEAKER_00]: there's training that you can do to make this situation more manageable, more realistic, and more successful, but you're not going to be able to just be able to have people over the house and let your guard down and say, yeah, you can go up and walk around these people and be around these people.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you're asking for it at that point, unfortunately. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because he's already, I figured he wouldn't ever be fine with people. [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of saw that coming, but my husband wanted to at least give him a chance. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you can, you got a train him, you got a train him, you can, yeah, he has a chance for sure, definitely, yeah, you just have to, you have to put in the work to train him, like he, he had, so, and he has a chance to be able to be a dog and co-mingle, but he's, he's under very tight, very tight discretion, like you have to make sure you are on top of him.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's not just going to be, you know, wandering out, doing what he wants, when he wants, like, this is going to be where's the dog at all times, because the thing is, is he's already proven to you that that's who he is, yes, like he's a loaded gun, where is he, we need to know where he is at all times, and so that's how you would do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because instinctually, he's already proven to you like, I'm going to bite somebody if you let me. [SPEAKER_00]: And so we're not going to let this dog just wander around to try to bite somebody because that's not good for anybody. [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to make sure we have really good obedience.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if we do have him outside, he listens to us really well. [SPEAKER_00]: And inside, it's just better to keep him away from people because he's going to bite somebody. [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately. [SPEAKER_00]: So if I had the dog, if I had the dog, I'd have no people are coming over or he's gonna be in this crate or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: No problem. [SPEAKER_00]: At no point in time, am I like, oh, I want this to work. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, no, that is a very dangerous game. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, he's not that dog. [SPEAKER_00]: He's already proven to you that he's not that dog. [SPEAKER_00]: He will bite somebody. [SPEAKER_01]: You're right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's hard, and I would crate train him and we just don't have space for that big of a crate. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I get it. [SPEAKER_00]: I get it. [SPEAKER_00]: I get it. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I get it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's, um, it's tough. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but that's, but again, like, that's the thing is like, hey, we have this dog who's giant.

[SPEAKER_00]: We can't create him. [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't like new people. [SPEAKER_00]: He will bite somebody. [SPEAKER_00]: So do we have people over? [SPEAKER_00]: Nope. [SPEAKER_00]: We can't. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just not because here's the thing is even if [SPEAKER_00]: you went through six months of critical training, crucial training, and you're still like, let's say you went through six months of training, he's still not going to like people.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you're going to be nervous the entire time. [SPEAKER_00]: You have a friend over from work or whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to be terrified. [SPEAKER_00]: That person's also going to be terrified. [SPEAKER_00]: There's no, it's too much of a risk for any of that to be a reward.

[SPEAKER_00]: It would be an awful situation. [SPEAKER_00]: It would be terrible. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it'd be like walking on eggshells. [SPEAKER_00]: It'd be like you enter in fear factor. [SPEAKER_00]: It'd be there's no point in that add-al. [SPEAKER_00]: You know? [SPEAKER_01]: okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that would be my suggestion on that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it makes sense. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, I would love to, [SPEAKER_00]: you know give you false hope and dangerous information to say oh well yeah if you did you know this type of training he's gonna like people but that is not safe like he's he's already made in the thing is is he's already made that decision [SPEAKER_00]: Like he's already told you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like people and if they get it's like that step Brother seated. [SPEAKER_00]: They get near me. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll drop them like that's how that's that's that's like he's already told you like Yo, I love you and my family, but I don't like new people and I don't No thank you right so you know that's where you have to be like okay [SPEAKER_00]: All right, this is who we got, what do we do?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, instead of spending all your life stressed about what this dog can and can't do, you just make very binary black and white decision to go, you know what? [SPEAKER_00]: No people, that's fine, you know, I don't want anybody to get hurt, I don't want to have to put my dog down, I don't want to get sued, that's fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's not convenient, but that's just a decision that you have to make, and I think once you do, you're gonna be happier, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, what can you do to make this better? [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, this is just who he is right now. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is what we got to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying? [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: So that would be my suggestion. [SPEAKER_00]: And I hate to, you know, not give you the information you want to hear of like, you know, oh, we'll just do this type of training. [SPEAKER_00]: He's gonna like people. [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, that's a dangerous, I wouldn't do that to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna shoot you straight here. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I'll figure, [SPEAKER_01]: We want to forget them to actually like people. [SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to be a little bit safer if someone does come in That I Either figure out what to do with him or At least get them to where he pulled a cat.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no doubt no doubt and um and you could but the problem is [SPEAKER_00]: is like if I told you all the magic tricks on the lesion stuff like you said you can't handle and your husband doesn't want to so you're still stuck to where you're at. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you were like time if you give me all the magic tricks of like how to really handle this dog. [SPEAKER_00]: Like yeah, I can. [SPEAKER_00]: But the reality is is you've already said like you don't feel comfortable actually handling that means going to get to somebody if you want to and your husband doesn't want to.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like what are we doing? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's dangerous for everybody. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's kind of just a wall on the way we look exactly that's what I mean is like the more that you're just like, you know what okay, this is our life with this dog. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, yeah, because you don't really you don't really have many options so that would that would be my suggestion to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, listen, the more control and the more communication skills you have with this dog, the safer everyone's going to be and the more you're going to be able to do with him. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, if you told me, hey dog, hey, Tom, I got a dog that wants to bite people and doesn't really like new people, but I don't really have good control over him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd be like, well, the first thing you need to do is get good control over him. [SPEAKER_00]: Because even if you had a dog that kissed everybody in the face to death, [SPEAKER_00]: you still have to have control. [SPEAKER_00]: So now you have the opposite. [SPEAKER_00]: You have a dog that wants to bite people and you don't have the best control, you know, and that's what you need.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: We will at least work on that and see what we can do with them. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would definitely like, like I said, you should do advanced e-collar training with [SPEAKER_00]: So that way, when you tell them to do something, he does it, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you should do, because again, you have a loaded gun. [SPEAKER_00]: You have a dog with a bite history that is now a liability, because he can't even go bite, unfortunately. [SPEAKER_00]: And once they've gone to turn that page, it's like, okay, now we're managing for the rest of her life.

[SPEAKER_00]: But again, if you don't have good obedience, you're not in good shape. [SPEAKER_00]: You really, really, really need good obedience. [SPEAKER_00]: Really need good obedience here. [SPEAKER_01]: And he listens pretty good when it's just me and my husband, he does really good on obedience, really.

[SPEAKER_01]: His students whenever he walks on to something, can't really get through to him. [SPEAKER_01]: That'll be where the color comes in at. [SPEAKER_00]: Correct. [SPEAKER_00]: Correct. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And you're in your obedience. [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's not just the e-collar, it's enforcing what you've told them.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the e-collar is an enforcer to your obedience. [SPEAKER_00]: So if you say dog come and he doesn't, you correct them. [SPEAKER_00]: If you correct them and he doesn't know what you're asking, he's going to be more confused. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to teach [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying? [SPEAKER_00]: You don't you you're not just correcting him for not listening if he doesn't know the behavior He's not not listening Because then that's not fair to him So if you say calm and he's like, I don't know I don't know what that is [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?

[SPEAKER_00]: So you need to use the remote collar as an enforcement to why he's the behavior he's not listening to, but if he doesn't know the behavior, he's just going to get confused and it's probably not going to work out. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of like the pitfalls to the e-collar. [SPEAKER_01]: You can pre-motion force the basic training forish and then introduce the E-Color.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, the teaching, yeah, you're teaching him. [SPEAKER_00]: So think about in your head, what do I want to use the E-Color for? [SPEAKER_00]: The E-Color is to enforce behavior's off leash. [SPEAKER_00]: He's got to know the behavior he's getting in force too, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Because then you just punish him for something he doesn't know and it's not making sense to him.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if he doesn't know what he's doing is wrong and you're correct in him for it, that's where things start to get confusing and dicey. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that makes sense. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and like I said, my e-collar course is something I would highly suggest for you. [SPEAKER_00]: So when you're teaching him, like, for an example, he needs to know, recall, before you can correct him for not coming back.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So if you let him out and [SPEAKER_00]: you say, hey, come, he's like, I know you're talking to me, but I don't know what that is, and then you nail him for it, you could potentially make things a lot worse for you, because now he's confused of, like, why the hell did I just get corrected?

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that makes sense. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'll definitely work on them. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah, I'm just trying to think like that. [SPEAKER_00]: That would be my suggestion is work on your basics, build it up to advanced, layer the remote collar and properly, and then you're gonna have a lot more freedom.

[SPEAKER_00]: A lot more control and a lot more safety with a dog who has a bite history. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: that would be perfect. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, at least that way you have more confidence. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, if we can control. [SPEAKER_00]: that a little bit better, a little bit a lot better for 100% 100% absolutely like if you have more control because think of control like I replace control with communication often like think of control is communication like how much how much good communication do you have and it's like well when I tell them to do something it's 50 50 okay if you have a dog that will bite somebody you do not let that dog out of your sight if it's 50 50 ever

[SPEAKER_00]: You see what I'm saying? [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: You want to avoid the dangerous situation? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: I hear your cat, I think. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's sitting in my lap for her and yeah, yeah, this is Cedar cool yeah have a cat to yeah cool well yeah and I think it's good like you know he I think you know what you ran into is you have a very protective dog by nature.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we didn't do the best foundational skills and maybe socialization or training that we needed to when he was young. [SPEAKER_00]: Now he's, you know, a risk and a liability, and now you're like, okay, we're picking up the pieces of what we do. [SPEAKER_00]: What you do is, if you don't try to make him like people that he doesn't know and like, because that's never going to happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you make sure you have really good skills. [SPEAKER_00]: You have really good communication. [SPEAKER_00]: You have a really, really good, uh, excuse me, handling, uh, abilities. [SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me, with him. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Anything else I can help you out with?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that'll, and comfort it. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, like I'm working with. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like I said, I would get into that e-colour course, and if the e-colour course is, you know, something that you don't want to do, you could always watch my e-colour stuff on YouTube for free.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: That is perfect. [SPEAKER_01]: I have seen a lot of your videos and that's why I'm just like, I'll try this first. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it's good start because now you know, you realistic, you realistically know. [SPEAKER_00]: you know what you should do and where you should go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: All righty. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: All right, it was really nice talking to you. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm rooting for you. [SPEAKER_00]: I wish you the best of luck. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that, yeah, I think that you really have an opportunity to make things better for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we have to be realistic. [SPEAKER_00]: Because the more realistic we are right now, the more safe and everybody is. [SPEAKER_01]: You're right. [SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense? [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, okay cool. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay cool. [SPEAKER_00]: I never will we'll good luck with everything and you know reach back out if you have any questions Well, thank you so much.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're welcome. [SPEAKER_00]: Good luck. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: Bye bye.

E406- This Dog Bit Several People...The Owner Wants Neutrality

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