Mike Elizondo (Part 2)

This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You can visit the Nora Jones channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and today I'm playing along with Mike Elizondo, part two.

I'm just playing along with you.

Welcome to the show. We're back with part two of Mike Elizondo. Welcome. I'm Nora. This is Sarah.

Welcome back for part two of our incredible episode with Mike Elizondo, who is a Grammy-winning producer, songwriter, bass player, and his work has touched so many different corners, and you hear a lot of it in this episode.

Yeah.

It's so cool. He's a great bass player, too. It's so fun to play with him.

He's really laid back considering how legendary he really is.

He's maybe one of the nicest, coolest people I've ever met. Yeah.

Yeah.

Just going to leave it there.

Said it.

Enjoy the episode with Mike Elizondo. Be sure to stay tuned after this episode because we do something very cool. We break down one of the songs.

That is a new song.

So do you feel like you're just always working on something here.

And there and I mean, gratefully, I, I, you know, there's times, you know, there's, there's the, uh, the struggling bass player that's in me always. It's like when the phone doesn't ring for like a few days or there's no like new gigs, you start to worry like, okay, that's it.

It's done. No one's calling me over again.

But no, fortunately there's things going on that I'm, I'm grateful to be a part of that, that, you know, are a lot of fun. Some newer artists, you know, that aren't even signed, you know, um, having my studio in Nashville affords me that luxury.

Of just kind of.

Yeah, is that something you do?

I love it.

I really feel like there's just an instinct in me that just wants to be a part of artist development.

You know?

That's pretty cool.

Yeah, I don't know that, you know, artists are getting it maybe kind of how they used to get it.

They're not at all.

You know, because it seems to me like, yeah, there was an era where artists would get signed and then maybe there was an A & R person who kind of was like, okay, I'm just going to let you Develop for a year and maybe, you know, once you feel like you've got your songs, then we'll make the.

Record, right?

And now you've got to have the record done, mixed, mastered, already viral before a label will look.

At you a lot of times.

Yeah, you have to have a lot of followers for somebody to even consider signing you.

A lot of times. For most of the cases.

I'm starting to see some... signs of, of, of labels going the other way, you know?

Because they've experienced that backfiring, right?

Exactly.

It's not that they're not good. It's just that they aren't ready to go out and do a stadium.

I think so.

Yeah.

Or, and then also the fame might, they might not be cut out for the fame, you know, like they might be incredibly talented, but then when, when all this attention is thrusted on them, it's like, whoa, this isn't what I thought it was going to be. And it's, it's tough to sustain, but whatever the reason, you know, I, I just, I like the idea of like having an artist feel like they can come in, experiment, try some things out if they don't have all the things figured out, you know, and give them an opportunity to like, you know, I'll give them my opinion. But ultimately, you just do something until I feel like maybe it's ready. And if they want to put it out independently or if I can help introduce it to a label or I'm happy

to do it. But it's a mixture of that and then, yeah, a mixture of all kinds of things. A couple of movie things that I get to do where I get to maybe produce a song or two for a soundtrack or whatnot.

So it's a pretty good variety.

That's great. And do you love going in with an artist or a band and doing like a whole album concept, like top to bottom? I feel like that's also something that not everybody does anymore. They get... different guests and different producers on every song.

It can be that way. Yeah.

I think in certain genres, that's definitely the norm. I, uh, yeah, I sort of managed to carve out a bit of a reputation of getting to do whole records and, and I love that. I mean, to me, to be a part of the, even times where the demos are sent to me and I can kind of chime in on little arrangement tweaks or tempo or keys. And then by the time we get into make the record, you know, we're, we're, jumping, you know, straight in.

Yeah.

I love getting to be a part of the whole record.

Being part of like the big family of the, of the project.

Exactly. And then see it, see it all the way to the finish line.

And then, um, you know, but yeah, I, I'm, there's times where I've maybe just produced a song or two and I'm happy with that and when that works out, but I love, I think I do have a, and it's a part of me, the, the, the old school heart of me where I've seen so many of my heroes, you know, who, who, did the whole record. And, and so that's sort of where I, I try and aspire to be good enough to do that.

It's a fun thing to do.

Yeah.

And do you, you engineer much? Like what's your engineering?

It's not, I, I understand all the concepts of engineering and, and, and gear. I can get pretty deep, but I like having an engineer in the room with me because I feel like There's just another collaborator, you know.

Yeah, and you get to sort of be a musician and do that stuff a little more.

You know, there's times where I'm working, like maybe to start an idea, I might have, I work a lot in a program called Logic. And so Logic are where a lot of my sounds are. And it's just a way to just quickly get a vibe or an idea. Like, you know, here's some drum sounds that maybe provoke a certain style or sound or way of singing or writing.

And do something like that in the box, whatever, you know, call it, you know, where you're in the computer. But ultimately when, if a song is going to go to full production, I have an engineer right there with me because inevitably.

It's quicker, right?

Yeah.

I just like the idea of.

Like, you know, he or she kind of throwing out an idea or like, hey, or I might suggest something, but then they take it another step further and.

It's nice to just have another set of ears on the ground, right?

A thousand percent.

Yeah.

I love it. That's nice.

You're so open and I love that.

Well, thank you.

Not everybody is.

I think, I don't know.

I mean, I've tried to be as efficient as I can to handle as many jobs as I can, but.

If there's a budget for.

It and someone, I mean, I've been in situations where there wasn't and I had to do all of the roles. But, um, yeah, I, I'd say an engineer is the top, you know, first hire once I, once I get, uh, you know, asked to work, work on a record and then, you know, and if it's a band and great, and then if it's not a lot of times I'm asked to sort of cast, find the other musicians that I.

Think are going to.

That's also a fun, fun way to do it. And then you get people in that you're comfortable with.

A thousand percent.

Yeah.

That's cool.

And then do you still keep your feet wide and like do gigs?

Yeah.

I try.

Because you said that you know a friend of mine, John Coward, in Nashville, and you play gigs with him.

Man, anytime John calls, I'm probably like, yeah, I got to make it work.

So you just keep in it. It's like a way to keep your sort of muscles working.

At the core, I.

Just love to do it, and I love when there's other musicians that you get to, you know what that is like.

Other people, it's not only the music, but it's the the people that you get to do it with.

Yeah.

And, and obviously at John Coward's just incredible. And I, when I found out he was moving, I think he went from New York to Colorado and then, uh, to now ended up in Nashville. I think there's times where I just tell myself like, you know, at some point it's all going to go away.

You know, I'm not going to get as many calls or for whatever reason.

Right.

Um, but I want to be able to still play, you know?

And yeah, when you're old and like, exactly.

Yeah.

Technology is because everything's AI. At least you can still do a gig.

Yes.

Have a great night playing music, speaking the language that you know.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

And this is my, this might sound egotistic, but there are times where I'm in a meeting maybe with some big wig at a label and they're talking, you know, through their, their, you know what? And, And in my mind, I'm like, yeah, but can you play through giant steps?

Well, I can't do that.

No, no.

But you know what I mean?

Yeah, exactly.

To me, it's kind of like my own little private way of just like, you know what? I know that I have some value and there's something I can bring.

For sure.

But yeah, being able to play through some changes on Upright, you know, I'm going to try and.

Do that as often as I can for as long as I can.

Yeah.

You know what you're talking about?

Yeah. A little bit, somewhat.

So, um, you actually requested one of my songs, which I'm really excited. You asked for this song alone with my thoughts from my, it's from my last album.

Yeah.

Well, first of all, it's, I've been inspired by your music forever, literally note one record one. Um, and I just love the evolution and your, your, your, you're just super bold and brave. And I feel like it's so cool that you just are always searching and pushing yourself. And I just, you know, so anytime you put out a new record, I'm like, okay, what's she doing this time? And, and this record came out and it's just from top to bottom, like the thing you and Leon just found this cool chemistry and sound and you're, you know, and the approach and the production and, Um, but I, I do remember hearing the song for the first time and was just like gutted.

It's just so gorgeous.

And so sad.

Yeah. I love it. I love a good sad song.

I mean, I think it's something that, you know, I, I feel like I'm always having to try and find solutions to things.

Right.

And, you know, and, and it, to me, it just felt like a way to just sort of like encourage those moments of quietness and to be okay to like question things and to like go, wow, okay. You know, and whether it's self, you know, evaluation or how I feel about other things, you know, spirituality, politics, any of the above to like afford me those moments of like just shutting everything down and just being in my thoughts, you know, and, and, and it's just sort of, and I, and I feel like we're so inundated with like looking at our phones and, and being distracted by things that, you know, um, we don't always afford ourself the luxury of just shutting everything down for a little bit and, and analyze or think or, or, you know, imagine all

of that.

It's so true. I think I used to always have to have a book on a plane cause I always had to, I couldn't bear the thought of having nothing to do for a few hours. This is before planes were full of TVs and your phones and everything.

Right, right, right, right.

And now when I'm on a plane, all I want to do is sit there and like think.

Yeah, yeah.

And I always come up with songs that way.

Yep.

Because that's, now that you, we have, our minds are just so full of noise.

Yeah.

And like if you go for a walk, you always have to have earphones in. And so I started taking walks too without headphones.

Right.

And I try not to look at my phone and. that's when I come up with songs. And I remembered, oh yeah, you have to have some space and quiet to come up with anything.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

It's crazy.

It's going to be very, very helpful. It's very helpful for me for sure.

So yeah, I think that's sort of, you know, when I heard the song, I mean, that's sort of what I kind of interpreted or took it as an encouragement for that. But, and it's also sad and it's, you know, it's all of the above.

All right, cool.

We should play that.

Yeah, let's try it.

Piano plays softly Let's try a.

Test Through space and through time I'll whisper.

Your name It'll bounce down the line.

Slowly explode Into showers of shine.

Ooh Ooh Ooh.

Ooh To love from a distance.

Through waves of the.

Air To know.

Your sadness.

Your joys and your fears are running around without me to be near.

Alone with my thoughts.

With my thoughts I'm alone.

I toil.

Wait and distract.

In a song.

I'll send you a prayer.

And a piece of home.

My love.

Is for you.

Ooh.

My love is for you.

Ooh.

That's pretty.

Oh, come on.

It was like a prayer.

That was so pretty.

That was beautiful.

Thank you for playing on it.

Oh, that was, yeah.

What a treat.

It was fun.

Yeah.

I'm glad.

Actually, the E key was actually okay because it was beautiful. Got the E string, you know?

Oh, you have one of those basses with the extra.

I do, yeah. This one.

How low does that go?

It goes to low C.

Let's get it crunk in here.

Wow.

That's cool.

Oh, yes.

Nice.

You can go to D then. You got the D, which is nice.

Oh, that's so cool.

What kind of bass is that?

I know that it's a Czech bass, Czechoslovakia. But the maker, I don't know. I purchased it probably in 2008, 2007. Cool.

From David Gage.

Oh, nice.

Here in New York.

He's gotten a few shout outs on this show.

Has he? Yeah, I know him. Deservedly. Yeah.

And Dave was real gracious to me, actually. I was doing a couple of little promo shows with Fiona Apple.

Okay.

And I produced her record, Extraordinary Machine. And so I had a day off in New York and I called up David and asked, I said, hey, look, I've got a cool plywood base that I've had forever, but I might be ready to like invest in something a little bit more. And Dave was like, no problem, man, come over.

And I went to this place and And I'll never forget this.

He was so cool.

He put me in another room and he asked one of his employees to just bring me basses to play. I want to say I was there for at least six hours. Six hours and they would bring me basses and this one was the second one I played. And so I just kept it there. I was like, if there was something special, I kept it there and they just kept bringing me basses. And then I'd go back to the check bass and more basses, more basses. After six hours of getting to do that, I essentially was like, I think this is the one.

It's like trying on wedding dresses or something. Say yes to the bass. Did it already have the.

It did not.

Okay, so they add that.

Yeah.

That's cool.

I had an amazing Luther, whose name is escaping me, but he added this on.

That's great.

And did a great job because it Really looks like it was original, you know, to.

Match the patina and everything.

I love that.

Yeah.

So a little extension thing kind of comes in handy every once in a while.

It was cool.

Yeah.

Well, thanks so much for doing this. I wanted to try one thing since we were together yesterday and we wrote a song.

We totally did.

So I kind of wanted to just sort of play it.

Yeah.

So so.

Somewhere on the edge of make-believe Something you said was hot and.

Sweet And the feeling always comes in waves In rolling hills and endless days.

A new memory, hold it.

Inside I think this might be the time.

Of my life.

And it's black and white and in between.

The darkest night, the sweetest.

Dreams You and I, a thousand lives.

Might never make it true.

I'll lose myself a thousand times to run away with you And find my way back.

Home Find my way back home You and I, a thousand lives might never make it.

True I.

Lose myself a thousand times to run.

Away with you And find my way back home Find my way back home.

Find my way back.

Home Find my way back home.

That was just from yesterday.

I know.

Where did that come from?

That's Fresh Pancake.

That was fun to get to play that.

That was fun, yeah.

Oh, man. There's some cool lyrics in there. After reading them over.

I changed a few of them.

Yeah.

Yeah, I noticed a couple little.

I changed a thousand lives.

Oh, that's cool. I don't know.

I kind of like that.

I think that's better.

Yeah, I think so, too.

From the lies.

Yeah.

It's like, what are we lying about?

Yeah, right. It's so cool.

Yay.

Okay.

This is fun.

Well, we'll have to record it.

Okay.

Awesome.

Sign me up.

Thanks so much for doing this.

Thank you so much, Nora.

I feel so close to you now because we spent all day.

We did. I know it was cool. Well, I'm coming over tomorrow. That's okay. Totally. I appreciate the invite to do this.

Yeah.

Friends for life.

Yep.

Let's do it.

Cool.

Okay.

All right.

Take care.

Thanks so much. That was fun.

Yeah. So, so much fun that we thought we would break down, do something a little different.

Yes.

And break down one of the songs in the episode because I personally would like to know more. The last song that you guys played, which at the time that we did the session, didn't have a title yet.

So what's the title?

Do we have one?

The title of the song is Find My Way Back Home.

Aww.

Aww. I know.

I love that.

I know.

The week that we did this session, the podcast session, Mike came here to work with you and collaborate with you for the first time.

Yeah.

So how did that come together?

And like, what was that process like? Well, he and I had been in touch from a Beach Boys tribute show that he was the MD on that I played on. So he reached out when we had Alessia Cara on because he produced that record. Oh, that's right. And so a couple of those songs he wrote or one of them, I can't remember. And so he was excited about it.

And I said, oh, Mike, you should be on the podcast. He's like, oh, that's nice. And if you'd ever want to write together, I come through New York a lot. I said, cool, let me know. And he did. And I don't really do that a lot. I don't co-write with people unless we're doing something together already. Do you know what I mean? I feel like the culture of music, A lot of people do do that, especially in Nashville.

Like certain pop music is very common for people to just co-write all the time with a bunch of different producers or musicians. But that's not really how I usually work. But I'm open to it if it's the right person. And I really like Mike a lot.

Yeah.

I thought it would be fun.

He seems very like.

His catalog is so diverse that it seems like he's so flexible to like be, you know... Be like to compliment whoever he's working with in exactly the right way.

Yeah.

Which I learned more of. I didn't really realize that. I didn't realize how much stuff he had done to be completely honest.

Yeah.

Until we started planning this and I was kind of blown away. And he happens to be the nicest person on the planet.

So nice, yeah.

But not so nice that he's annoying. Like, he'll also give you a zinger every once.

In a while.

He's very humble. He's a great guy.

It's unsuspecting how legendary his catalog is.

Yeah, he's just a great guy. And so he came over that afternoon. And I want to get into it because it's cool the way we did it. It's not how I usually get into stuff. You know, everybody has like a different way. Later that day, I had a barbecue and he came over for that too. And he came by himself and he got to know like our whole friend group. And everybody was like, man, that guy's awesome.

And then the next day we did the podcast. So that's why in the podcast, I say we spent a lot of time together.

It's a real hang.

Yeah, a whole week. Yeah, it was great.

Did you have an idea ready when he came or was it completely from scratch?

He said, well, let me just open my laptop and play you a couple little ideas I've been working on. And so that was like a good springboard. And one of them popped out because I really like the bass part. He is a bass player, of course. So, yeah. And I really like the bass part. It was like. And I really liked it. And I just started singing over that.

And then we started writing the song. Probably took like an hour and a half, hour.

Do you feel like because he's a bass player and like where he was coming from with the idea is like a different perspective? Is it different from the way you would normally approach a song?

Well, I normally don't start a song with a bass part, but it definitely happens occasionally. So I don't know. Do you want to hear the thing he played for me?

Yes, I do.

Just to sort of hear where it came from?

Oh, yeah, definitely.

So this is what he sent you before you met?

No, no. He just played it for me in the room when we were writing. Oh, okay, cool. It was just sort of a quick hot take. Yes. And there's no bass yet. Here comes the bass. I like the slippiness of the bass. It's like, I like that.

Okay.

So then after that, after he played you that sort of demo of it, where did, how did the rest of the song take shape?

Well, then, then I said, I love that bass part. Let's check that out. And then we were kind of like, I was just kind of singing over that and then we put it away and he started playing it on the bass. Because it was like. And then it made sense to go... Like once we started changing the chords and he put it away and started playing it on bass and we just played it together.

Nice.

And then we're like. And the words were kind of coming at the same time but you know not many of them and then once we kind of got the general form down we started focusing on the words and we didn't finish finish them we like got it pretty good but there was a lot of negative stuff in it and um I think the next day I changed some lines to be more positive because I don't know. I feel like the melody, it's very major, you know, and it's very like pentatonic, like, which it has a vibe to me. That's very like uplifting, hopeful, maybe a little like, you know, world music-y or something different, you know, there's just something joyful about those kinds of scales as opposed to like, anyway.

That's interesting though, that the, the chords and the melody sort of shaped the lyrics, like, because you felt like it was uplifting, the lyrics went uplifting versus like starting with, you know, if you sat down to write a dark song and you had like a had some dark lyrics, like the song could have ended up somewhere totally different.

Yeah.

I mean, I think some of the lyrics were already uplifting cause it felt good. But then in the chorus, I felt like it was kind of bittersweet instead of just sweet.

Yeah.

And so I changed it to just sweet. Does that make sense? Like in the chorus, it was more like, we can't be together though. And then I changed it to like, we're enjoying this, you know, we're here we are together. And it was just kind of sweet.

Yeah.

So you're just kind of riding the wave of where the song took you.

That's so cool. And then it also like, it's funny hearing that demo because it's a lot faster than I remember it. Cause we played it kind of slow and I actually, I recorded it recently and it's pretty slow, but you know, I like slow and I think it really works. Um, but I was surprised to hear how fast that demo was. I kind of forgot.

Well, I think that's probably a sign of a good song that you could kind of speed it up and make it have one vibe or slow it down and change it all together.

Yeah.

I mean, I love songwriting. It's so interesting to me where things come from and where they end up. But also, you know, it's kind of a weird song for me, actually. And maybe that's because I wrote it with someone I've never worked with before and it went towards a place. Or maybe it's because I'm I'm a lot more open lately to just going wherever. Right. You know, like I'm not trying to force anything into anything. I don't care anymore at this point.

Yeah.

In a good way.

And like if you're working with somebody new and you just have like a different energy in your space, like I guess my question would be because you hadn't really worked with him, I mean you hadn't worked with him in this way, did you feel like– like vulnerable about sharing your.

Oh, like my ideas. What do you think about this idea?

Was it like, were you nervous about it or are you just open?

I don't think I was because he's so easy going. And I also feel confident in what I have to say now as a, as a songwriter. Whereas when I was 20, I was really self-conscious. Also, my lyrics were probably much more cheesy. But also, I don't care anymore. I feel like if it's from the heart, it's right.

Even if it's a cliche, it doesn't matter. If it's overthought and contrived, if you rewrite, you know what I mean? Then maybe it's not as good.

I mean, I kind of feel like that's how it is in life. You know, like as you get older, like the thing we were talking about earlier about how just we're old enough now to say what we want, our truth, you know, and we don't have to pretend to be one way or the other. And like, there's some, the honesty, there's, that's where it's, that's the special spot, right?

Like is where you're being honest and not trying to be something else. Yes.

And also I think this song has, Again, because of the way the scale.

It kind of had like a prayer-like quality to the scale.

That's kind of what I was getting at when I said worldly. There's just something about that scale and those choice of chord progressions and notes where you're like, You don't really want to go to a bunch of different places. You kind of want to stay living in this place.

Floating up in the clouds.

And then for that reason, usually when you get to the chorus, you go to like here or like here or somewhere different. But the chorus starts on the one again. So it's like, and then it still goes back to the one, which is where the verse started, which is this. And which is weird for me is like almost I wanted the chord to change, but at the same time, I didn't want it to move.

Yeah.

So I just sang higher. So it's like somewhere on the edge of make-believe. Oh, you and I, a thousand lives.

And then it can change.

And we can make it true.

So for me, that was kind of a weird structure for a song to stay on the one chord for the chorus.

Right.

Or stay on the same chord for the chorus even. And so when we recorded this, I recorded it with Leon Michaels, who produced my last couple albums. And he's like, I love this song. He's like, it's a weird song for you, though. It's like it's like a different I've never heard you write a song like that.

Well, that's cool. It was like, yeah, like Mike, the chemistry with you and Mike was something different.

Yeah.

No.

Thanks for listening to our show. The first song we did was Alone With My Thoughts, which was written by Nora Jones. Wait, that's me. From my album, Visions, released in 2024. I'm a dork. Last song we did was a new song that Mike and I wrote together, but I think it's called Find My Way Back Home. And it is unreleased as of yet, but will be released sometime.

Hopefully next year. Special thanks to Mike Elizondo for joining us today. Nora Jones is Playing Along is a production of iHeart Podcast. I'm your host, Nora Jones. Recorded by Matt Marinelli. Additional recording and mixed by Jamie Landry. Audio post-production and mastering by Jamie Landry. Artwork by Eliza Fry.

Photography by Shervin Lenez. Produced by Nora Jones and Sarah Oda. Executive Producers Aaron Wong-Kaufman and Jordan Runtag. Marketing Lead, Allison Cantor-Graber.

Mike Elizondo (Part 2)

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