Air Canada Jet Collides with Fire Truck at New York LaGuardia Airport

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Dan and I'm Alex and welcome back to on-air how you doing. [SPEAKER_00]: Good morning not too bad how things. [SPEAKER_00]: Fine actually I am in Sweden now I made it back to Europe so we're on the same continent. [SPEAKER_01]: And I note that of course the current state of the world has had determined much [SPEAKER_01]: But I do know that you are safely showing up, well, that wasn't my thought, safely showing up in Sweden, a lot of S's, just ahead of spring.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you have, I expect missed the bulk of the winter, which has a sense of all. [SPEAKER_00]: And for sure, we will also talk about this journey that I had to get to Sweden. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about it next week because we had quite an adventure, but the video is going up before next week's episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: So then there will be plenty of time to discuss what the heck we did to get from each other. [SPEAKER_01]: All I can recall is checking in with you and you were in yet another point of transit and every day or multiple times in one day there was another point of transit and of course you have been called up like many in the fact that it's incredibly difficult right now to move from Southeast Asia or further east in Asia [SPEAKER_01]: to Europe in light of everything that's going on and we'll come to a more global picture as to what is going on this week and what you guys need to know in terms of what it means for everyone from Lufthansa to Kenya Railways and all an in between.

[SPEAKER_01]: But shall we first start with the really sad news that came out of New York and La Guadilla, specifically with the accident that occurred with the Air Canada flight operated by jazz, which is the regional that was involved in this terror accident, Dan, what happened there? [SPEAKER_00]: So on Sunday evening March 22nd, at around 1140 p.m., an air Canada Jazz CRJ 900 was coming into land.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the thing to know about these are former bombardier aircraft, bombardier was the manufacturer of these. [SPEAKER_00]: unlike most aircraft these days. [SPEAKER_00]: These planes have their engines at the very back, so they have wings very low to the ground with no engines below, and then just one long fuse large stretching to the front.

[SPEAKER_00]: So one of these aircraft was coming into land at New York, LaGuardia. [SPEAKER_00]: It was dark. [SPEAKER_00]: There had just been bad weather throughout the afternoon and evening. [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot was going on and at the same time there was a united aircraft at LaGuardia that was having technical issues from what I read correct me if I'm wrong that aircraft had already aborted takeoff twice the pilots ended up declaring an emergency and requested fire trucks [SPEAKER_00]: It's not entirely clear to me what was wrong on the United Aircraft, but they requested fire trucks to come and help them out or perhaps if they were worried something would happen, they would have that support.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that is when air traffic control said, all right, fire trucks they need to pass over this runway to get to the United Aircraft that needs help. [SPEAKER_00]: And that is sort of where the problem began, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so this, what should have been a routine flight from Montreal, the aircraft had landed and was slowing but had collided with the fire trap that was authorized to cross the runway by air traffic control.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the air traffic controller himself that recording is publicly available and is everywhere. [SPEAKER_01]: We won't be sharing it but what the kind of you can take away is that not only [SPEAKER_01]: high stress in terms of the working environment, but he realizes the mistake as it is seconds away or perhaps had just started to unfold in terms of the collision and his shouting start, start and it is too late the Canada aircraft colliding with the fire truck [SPEAKER_01]: and the air traffic controller understandably incomplete despair was comforted by another onlooker pilot in another aircraft who had said, don't worry, they kind of said, you did the best you can and that's where they're recording.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the scariest part of all of this is that it does, of course, link back to everything that we have been flagging for years now on [SPEAKER_01]: regarding the awful, sorry state of affairs with air traffic control in the United States and how they are moments away from disaster at any given time because of the horrendous state of ATC, the shortage of air traffic controllers, the way in which the industry has faced cuts off to cuts off to cuts which has led to this, it's been cumulative, it's built up.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's awful. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't you think it's particularly awful that we see something like this happen and ultimately we're not surprised by it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we, we know this is the state of affairs with U.S. HEC. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, again, it's like everyone is just waiting for things to happen, because we've been talking about the problems with USATC for years, yet nothing has really been done to remedy that.

[SPEAKER_00]: We, there's a government shutdown part, partially in the US that's affecting TSA. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a whole other discussion. [SPEAKER_00]: Their solution there is to send ice agents to man US security lines. [SPEAKER_00]: when not now, HTC is not shut down, but it could be in another future shut government shutdown like it was during the previous shutdown.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that just puts even more strain on the system. [SPEAKER_00]: But since that last shutdown, we still have not seen any progress on trying to make this system more robust, more functional and protected. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's it's just so concerning that what we're really relying on, [SPEAKER_00]: in all these near-miss situations is the aircraft internal systems warning pilots that you're on a collision course take this action to send, climb, turn left, turn right to avoid a collision and we've seen this multiple times.

[SPEAKER_00]: The two now tragic incidents that have occurred since the start of 2025 in the U.S. [SPEAKER_00]: Both, so both are collisions, which is crazy, right? [SPEAKER_00]: We're, of course, talking about American Airlines landing at Washington Regan Airport, the crash with that helicopter in January 2025.

[SPEAKER_00]: So both those incidents happened at low altitude. [SPEAKER_00]: They did not collide with other aircraft, but with other types of transportation, out of the helicopter or in this case a fire truck. [SPEAKER_00]: So, that then we're removing some of those layers on protection that pilots have relied on to avoid other near crashes or near misses, but yeah, it's just horrible, I guess, you know, it's first of all our condolences or with the pilots and everything that I want to come to, which is that, you know, unfortunately in this specific accident, [SPEAKER_01]: The CRJ aircraft ended up pretty much with its nose in the air and the cockpit destroyed.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the fire truck ended up over in the grass on its side and was barely, I mean, you can recognize what parts belong to, to which, whether it was the aircraft or the air. [SPEAKER_01]: or the fire truck. [SPEAKER_01]: The confirmation has come through from the airline that sadly the captain and the first officer have both passed away.

[SPEAKER_01]: So as Dan said, we send our condonences that to the families because this is horrendous and a horrendous mistake yet again. [SPEAKER_01]: Firefighters are also critically injured, which is terrible news and also it remains to be seen. [SPEAKER_01]: We're not quite sure as to what the statuses of [SPEAKER_01]: are beyond that particularly for cabin crew.

[SPEAKER_01]: who also sitting near to the front, near to the cockpit and passing just as well. [SPEAKER_01]: But the worst part of all this is it just, it feels so avoidable. [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't exist. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's so not something that is one of those things and actually is. [SPEAKER_01]: So the gentleman who was the edge of the controller that night was the only person in the tower.

[SPEAKER_01]: at Le Boidia in New York and just the recording is disturbing because you can hear a guy who is beyond stressed out. [SPEAKER_01]: And how much of that is happening across the United States, it's everywhere. [SPEAKER_01]: And believe me and you know this, if it's happening in New York City, right, we're home to some of the busiest skies on the earth, it's happening across the United States.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 100%. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just so sad. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel so bad for that era to have a controller because he was doing his best. [SPEAKER_00]: He was doing his job and unfortunately, he made a mistake, but it's really not his fault. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the circumstances fault. [SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that nothing is being done to take pressure and burden off of these era to have a controllers who are working under such pressed conditions.

[SPEAKER_00]: There had been weather delays impacting flights previously during the day, so there were all these stressful elements building up to this that happened almost a midnight one. [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, everyone is tired even if you work, you know, nights, it's up. [SPEAKER_00]: There's so many extraordinary circumstances here, but the one thing I find sort of miraculous about this incident is that, [SPEAKER_00]: At least it seems like every passenger made it out there are injuries but every passenger made it out the flight attendant who was sitting in the jump seat right behind the aircraft and if you look at the photos that part of the plane is completely crushed she was found or I don't know if it was a he or she they were found strapped to the jump seat

[SPEAKER_00]: on the ground, so the seed had sort of been ejected, but they were fine as well, which is, of course, a miracle considering how how extreme this, this world. [SPEAKER_00]: And do say further emphasis is the importance of keeping a sea bone, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Precisely. [SPEAKER_01]: This is one of those things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're going to, it's very, very early days with that investigation, even though, of course, it seems obvious to us because in the digital age, we have access to the recording straight away. [SPEAKER_01]: We can see footage from CCTV cameras. [SPEAKER_01]: We know we have the far from our traffic control, but like anything in aviation in order to ensure that all the findings are there and then airlines.

[SPEAKER_01]: and the sector learns from it. [SPEAKER_01]: There is a full investigation underway being led by the NTSB. [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the aligner involved as well as the manufacturer and other state coders. [SPEAKER_01]: And if there are developments that come there, we will bring them to you.

[SPEAKER_01]: We will move on now to... [SPEAKER_01]: the crisis that is continuing to unfold in the Middle East and the impacts on the impact on the industry globally because it has now, it has now been unfolding for long enough to have really had kind of deeper rooted impacts across airlines that have absolutely nothing to do with the Gulf in many scenarios and this is what I think the public are becoming [SPEAKER_01]: People know that their gas bills are likely to rise.

[SPEAKER_01]: People know that the energy shock that they are forecasting as a head is likely to come sooner than later. [SPEAKER_01]: At the same time, people are aware of filling up the car with fuel and perhaps people are aware of this situation with jet fuel, which we will come to, because there really is about to be a secondary, [SPEAKER_01]: massive crisis regarding the availability and price of jet fuel and it is leading to airlines to having to make all sorts of very difficult decisions that are determining things as innocent as an Easter holiday getaway from the UK to Portugal, for example, or the price [SPEAKER_01]: of a domestic flight within Scandinavia.

[SPEAKER_01]: So down I thought let's take a look at what's happening globally, while also setting the scene first as to what's happening in the golf. [SPEAKER_01]: So just take us through approximately what are the numbers in terms of flights right now for the golf carriers. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's look at, for example, a couple days ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so if we look at March 21st, for example, obviously almost a month into the call or three weeks into the conflict at that point, we see a picture here of certain airlines having ramped up quite a bit. [SPEAKER_00]: If I look at Etihad, for example, [SPEAKER_00]: They have really had a very gradual ramp up from operating just a few flights, looking at a week after the war started they were operating 43 flights in a day on March 21st, that 170 flights.

[SPEAKER_00]: Emirates meanwhile, sort of sped up very quickly after the first week, and they're hovering around the same numbers, which I find interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: They had over 300 flights on March 9th, on March 21st, they had 354, so they're sort of at this equilibrium for the moment. [SPEAKER_00]: They are now at just, they've actually the past few days.

[SPEAKER_00]: They started operating over 100 flights a day. [SPEAKER_00]: So 107 on the 20th, 115 on the 21st, we have fly Dubai, which actually, interestingly, [SPEAKER_00]: has had quite a reduction in flights compared to a post war peak of almost 200 on March 8th. [SPEAKER_00]: Now they're down to the low 100s, which would be interesting to know why and what's going on there.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's probably more to do with the demand that was there earlier in the crisis for repatriation, so that's probably what's going on there with fly Dubai. [SPEAKER_01]: and also making way for Emirates to ensure that if they have, for example, a lot available to them and they're going to operate it is probably more sensible and that scenario to fill an a380 if they can outbound of Dubai rather than have fly Dubai lay on just the 737, which has less than a quarter of capacity in real terms in terms of what they're able to achieve on an a380 and whether that's when you factor in [SPEAKER_01]: the aircraft are likely not for even though there is sufficient demand because often it's very difficult to repatriate to round up everyone a day before and even though there is immense demand to leave for example and there has been in the crisis.

[SPEAKER_01]: How do you get that message? [SPEAKER_01]: to all the people 12 hours before and get them to confirm and that's why I think we've seen have you seen some of the reporting of angry governments receiving aircraft that are not full and they're wondering why and why when there's such a demand to leave, for example, why were those planes not full?

[SPEAKER_01]: That's primarily due to the logistics with that. [SPEAKER_01]: So, in flight by giving weight for Emirates to take that slot, I get that, but also I think that peak demand [SPEAKER_01]: For Catites, it's been a different picture as you just outlined because the Civil Aviation Authority there has taken a far more conservative approach and S-Base has been pretty much closed albeit for a couple of waypoints in and out and that has severely limited their ability to expand their operation.

[SPEAKER_01]: Remember that the airline is the operator and the S-Base ultimately determines the environment they operate within. [SPEAKER_01]: And if S-Base has those restrictions with everything, [SPEAKER_01]: to do with capacity constraints, a curfew and so on, then there is only so much you can do there.

[SPEAKER_01]: What's happening on the low cost? [SPEAKER_01]: What about aerobia? [SPEAKER_00]: What are they doing? [SPEAKER_00]: Aerobia has their main hub in charge, in case you guys weren't aware. [SPEAKER_00]: So there's many major airlines in a cluster there in the UAE. [SPEAKER_00]: They're also ramping up quite a bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: If I look at the data, they had a peak on March 15th, where they operated almost 200 flights, now they're around 150 a day as well. [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, on the business side, we have been quite clear since the crisis started, that we know that passengers are ultimately going to be paying more because of what's been happening, and this is everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: that comes into play once you have a crisis and conflict of this scale that is so that the oil market is so sensitive to and also directly involves oil. [SPEAKER_01]: so it's both, it's not a simply a geopolitical event that is getting jitters to the market, but rather it's directly involving the said oil and therefore the price of that has shot up.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's take a look at what some of the sentiment is from Global Online CEO's. [SPEAKER_01]: So Ryanair's Michael O'Leary, of course we have spoken about how he is very, very active when there is any kind of flare-up anywhere across the globe in terms of communicating to the public and setting, planting the seed in their heads, that this will mean the cost of your, for example, he usually says summer holiday will increase.

[SPEAKER_01]: He has said that he sees a 4% increase [SPEAKER_01]: uh, not too unrealistic of an approach. [SPEAKER_01]: I will say he's not being to, uh, to a dramatic there as his usual uh, self, but he did know that obviously we considerably higher if it does not. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, Lufthansa CEO has said what Dan, Lufthansa CEO says there's no way the airline can absorb additional fuel costs.

[SPEAKER_00]: So of course he's going to try to pass that onto passengers [SPEAKER_01]: The IATA director, General William Worsh, many of you will know he is an industry veteran leading multiple airlines, was also a pilot himself very famously known for being at the top of British hours when he was. [SPEAKER_01]: He's now overseeing IATA, which is that industry body for the association of airlines globally.

[SPEAKER_01]: He described the situation as a significant crisis for golf carriers, though he noted [SPEAKER_01]: rather than the pandemic, adding that Middle East carriers will recover and regain that footing by simply discounting seats, which is, again, a realistic take on things because we know how fast and how quickly people just generally in life, I mean, forget right once something ends.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we both share the idea. [SPEAKER_01]: that as long as the golf carriers continue to appear at the top of that skyscana search offering the passenger the lowest fare for transit. [SPEAKER_01]: those planes will continue to be busy once they're able to do so. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's always how it works. [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, we have every airline, you know, chiming in here on raising flights. [SPEAKER_00]: The interesting thing is, a lot of airlines are also choosing to cancel flights, right, Alex? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So, S-A-S, you're a neck of the words.

[SPEAKER_01]: That can't [SPEAKER_01]: with several hundreds also cut for March, for the, for the, what's left of March, these are mostly short-haul routes within Scandinavia. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, the interesting thing when I saw this announcement come out was the reaction because the public were, huh?

[SPEAKER_01]: how are the domestic flights within Scandinavia or the flights from one Scandinavian state to another? [SPEAKER_01]: How are they caught up in this? [SPEAKER_01]: Interestingly, there was an additional angle, of course, because SAS home to a region with lots of oil. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was just an added.

[SPEAKER_01]: But of course, that's not that doesn't mean that they just have access to reserve [SPEAKER_01]: barrels of it and then it means that they're good to go. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not the case. [SPEAKER_01]: They still have course work within the global operating environment that is under such strain at the moment.

[SPEAKER_01]: So SAS have said that of course the flights that will be cut now mean that the scale of the passenger capacity that they're able to offer [SPEAKER_01]: is no longer there, and so it means that passengers in normal terms are waking up to e-mars to inform them of cancelled flights. [SPEAKER_01]: They operate around 800 flights a day, so that's just some context there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Norwegian is adding 120 extra departures between late March and mid April to absorb all of the displaced SAS passengers Norwegian seemingly feeling like they're in a better position. [SPEAKER_01]: to take them up and that could be to do the way that they have hedged fuel or also their margins.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean domestic flights or the flights, the short flights within Scandinavia, the margins are so incredibly thin. [SPEAKER_01]: This is why it has already trickled down to a scandy carrier in Europe. [SPEAKER_01]: And as I said, I was really interested in the reaction to this because I feel like this surprised the market more than other developments because people just thought, well, I mean if you're taking a flight from Dan's great [SPEAKER_01]: state of Gothamburg to a notes of sitting on a state where from Gothamburg to Oslo, for example, why three or four weeks into the US is where I wore on Iran?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is that flight canceled? [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, it just goes to show how airlines are so woven up into this global operating environment that is now massively impacted and affected by the conflict. [SPEAKER_00]: Precisely, we also have airlines united, for example, in the US, looking at how can they use this to slim down their operations?

[SPEAKER_00]: and basically they're viewing this as an opportunity to make their operations more efficient. [SPEAKER_00]: So they're looking at, okay, which red eyes are we operating that we can cut out because they're unprofitable, which frequencies and markets where we fly very often can we cut out because [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we don't have enough capacity to get or enough demand to get as high profits on those roots as possible.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, United, you know, their CEO put out what I thought was a very sort of interesting and inspiring message for their employees and still a lot of confidence that [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever happens, we can weather the storm, and we are counting on oil prices being high for the coming two years to make sure that our operations are adjusted for that, which, you know, I imagine that United employees felt good reading that the leadership feels they have things under control because that is certainly not the case at every airline.

[SPEAKER_00]: no, you're right. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's that, you know, there are worries across the industry, understand that we say people are worried about if this means the airlines everywhere are going to be shrinking, for example, is this going to be like the aftermath of COVID once the crisis had started there.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not necessarily was not a tool with the same picture, but it's also doesn't mean that the response from airlines has to be the same either. [SPEAKER_01]: The, the, the, [SPEAKER_01]: Asian carriers have to have understandably put out similar statements saying that they expect fairs to rise, tie airways saying they expect it, affairs to rise as much as 15%, air Asia confirmed they have raised ticket prices in their search arches, Vietnam Airlines warning that they're going to cancel flights, warning again of possible further disruption across Asia Pacific, Air New Zealand safely away in that bottom corner of the earth can't sling [SPEAKER_01]: affecting 44,000 passengers, suspending its 2021-26 earnings and everything, citing, of course, the fuel price volatility, their contest has lifted prices by varying amounts depending on the route, noting, of course, that jet fuel, again, is the responsible driver here driving up their affairs.

[SPEAKER_01]: They say that jet fuel for them in the second week of the crisis had been up by at 150% over the preceding fortnight. [SPEAKER_01]: And so they were left with no choice but to do that. [SPEAKER_01]: China and Thailand restricting fuel exports. [SPEAKER_01]: Lufthansa adding further that this meant that.

[SPEAKER_01]: that they were going to have to reassess their operations to Asia, hoping that they could add Asia and tap into, and we'll come to that, tap into the gaps and demand there. [SPEAKER_01]: But noting that if that is the case, fairs will still be high. [SPEAKER_01]: fin air, seeing average fares on their Asia roots rise 15% hinting could be further ahead and all flights are caused to the Middle East so they've cancelled through to April.

[SPEAKER_01]: What? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, none of this is a surprise, of course, but it's interesting just to outline the global picture. [SPEAKER_01]: There is of course a different side to this coin which is [SPEAKER_01]: what the same airlines or other airlines are doing to capitalise on the situation to ensure that they are tapping in to different streams of revenue because of course anyone will know that the airlines are part of that sentiment to never waste a good crisis as the saying goes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And of course this is a very legitimate, very awful real crisis but for airlines they need to [SPEAKER_01]: staying agile because it's that agility that is going to have them get through this. [SPEAKER_01]: So my eyes immediately go to Southeast Asia because this crisis isn't bad for everyone and specifically for for Singapore Airlines and Cathay that have been very perhaps as bullish and as robust as I have ever seen them behave as an airline to ensure that they are capitalizing on this new world at 100 [SPEAKER_00]: So Singapore Airlines for one is expanding certain flights specifically on the Kangaroo route, which is obviously a very important market for the Middle Eastern Airlines.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Singapore is expanding Gatwick services starting March 31st, so less than a week from now from 7 to 10 weekly. [SPEAKER_00]: up to twice a day in the summer peak, and they're bringing the A380 back to Melburn on Mel Ben, I should say, on the 29th of March. [SPEAKER_00]: The interesting thing about that is that do you remember where they were supposed to start sending an A380 on the 29th of March?

[SPEAKER_01]: Was he... [SPEAKER_00]: to re-adult Dubai was supposed to get the 80s so now they suddenly have a spare A380 of course the question is they've suspended their flights to March to Dubai until May 1st or the last I read now they're sending an X380 to Melbourne to boost that capacity I wonder what happens right?

[SPEAKER_01]: That's an extra 200 seats then on the on the right side to Melbourne and they enjoy open skies with Australia as well. [SPEAKER_01]: This is really Singapore's chance to strengthen and solidify its position on the kangaroo route. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it is. [SPEAKER_00]: But I wonder, my question is, for now, the E3D is still in the schedule for Dubai when those flights resume.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I have to question whether that will actually go ahead, whether the demand will be there. [SPEAKER_00]: But then we see Kathy Pacific, so up in Hong Kong, [SPEAKER_00]: They are adding extra frequencies to Heathrow, boosting from 32 to 35 flights a week, and they're also adding additional flights to Paris on certain weeks.

[SPEAKER_00]: I always wonder, you know, these situations of adding flights to Heathrow, are they getting those slots temporarily from the absence of the Middle Eastern frequencies or what happens there? [SPEAKER_01]: I need to check up on this. [SPEAKER_01]: I need to check up on this because [SPEAKER_01]: of course an airline can simply not just determine that he throw works well for us.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's fly more because we let's increase our flights to Heathrow because this requires airlines to obtain slots and slots, I mean it's like obtaining gold dust and they're also valued at the same price as gold dust perhaps more. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's it's interesting how [SPEAKER_01]: They have found some flexibility in there to be able to do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I wonder if this is because of the absence of other carers. [SPEAKER_01]: And then what do we need to look into that? [SPEAKER_01]: That's a really good point. [SPEAKER_01]: So that uping he throw. [SPEAKER_00]: Kim the go one one thing I wanted to ask you was, I saw an interview with our friends, Kailem's CEO Ben Smith and [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I found the interview interesting a little bit of putting I have to say in how he was choosing to talk about well, well, for one thing, he was trying to highlight how in his opinion Europe is now waking up to its overreliance on Middle Eastern carriers, which is a discussion in and of itself, whether you could call that an overreliance.

[SPEAKER_00]: he also chose to take this opportunity to highlight how he thinks it's very unfair that Middle East and airlines have been given so much access to Europe at the you know negative consequence to airlines like airframes [SPEAKER_00]: Now, Air France is seeing an opportunity with the absence of the same level of capacity from Middle Eastern Airlines to capitalize on that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think Europe has an over-reliance on Middle Eastern Airlines? [SPEAKER_01]: No, I think that Ben Smith's comments were tasteless to be honest, and I think he shares a similar sentiment to that to Carson's for the sea, I've lived under as well. [SPEAKER_01]: This is really the time you're going to weaponize, a crisis there as human suffering happening across much of the world, but specifically with this conflict unfolding in the Middle East and Ben Smith thinks it's an appropriate time to say, aha, now we have all realized how we were far too reliant on the dove.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, because by that same logic, are we not them reliant on the Asian carers or the on the European carers who have us trapped into their groups and we think it's competition and it's not so you jump over the lift and you get on to an Austrian or you get off an Austrian on to a Swiss and you're still in the same airline group.

[SPEAKER_01]: The same is true for our France carolant, the same is true for IAG, Europe and the way that it has consolidated has left passengers with no choice, and there is no longer that idea of fair competition on key routes that cost a fortune to fly for 45 minutes, but Ben Smith thinks it's the time to say that this is, um, [SPEAKER_01]: This is the moment now for Europe to wake up.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he specifically is referring to European politicians. [SPEAKER_01]: He was speaking very much as a politician, despite him being an ally in CEO of a... [SPEAKER_01]: allegedly private airline and it is a private airline, but I say allegedly because here I feel he's blurring the lines.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is he speaking on behalf of the French state? [SPEAKER_01]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: Is he speaking as an EU diplomat? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, he sounded like one, but he's not. [SPEAKER_01]: And he was basically calling on them to realize that this is this is this all reveals that we have been too reliant on the Gulf.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're actually, I don't think that that can be linked in any way, shape or not. [SPEAKER_01]: Much of the reason why passengers choose to fly a golf carrier to Asia and not a European carrier is either because the European carrier doesn't fly there, or if it does, is more expensive. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, obviously.

[SPEAKER_01]: The service and what you come to expect from these airlines long haul can simply not compete with the likes of Asian carriers and golf carriers. [SPEAKER_01]: Look no further, I tweeted this out. [SPEAKER_01]: There was an article, so the top part of my tweet is said, Lufthansa CEO yesterday, quote, non-EU airlines, IE successful Asian golf car as ETC, are the problem.

[SPEAKER_01]: They are the reason that we barely fly to Asia. [SPEAKER_01]: They are the reason why we struggle to fly east. [SPEAKER_01]: It's unbalanced, it's unfair, and we have lost towards Southeast Asia and quote. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what he had said, the date for us in that, I out on Twitter just a few days ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I put at the bottom half of the tweet, [SPEAKER_01]: and the news of the morning was lift answer is trialing, suspending, cleaning economy class on flights. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, so which is it? [SPEAKER_01]: That tweet that I put out, I just thought, you know, I want to highlight the hypocrisy there.

[SPEAKER_01]: That tweet has received just under one million views. [SPEAKER_01]: Tons of engagements from Europeans, Asians, people living all over the world, people everywhere, [SPEAKER_01]: supporting this idea that, sorry, this is not why we fly out of the rail lines east. [SPEAKER_01]: It is because it's not because of unfairing and a different landscape for competition.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is because the airlines are able to offer betterfares. [SPEAKER_01]: better service, better product and therefore they are prioritized when passengers are assessing who they're going to spend their cash with. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like we feel bad for European airlines with the competitive landscape.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, to Asia, Middle Eastern airlines have been able to carve out a piece of the market for themselves by offering a superior product that people want to [SPEAKER_00]: They just offer a product to people once. [SPEAKER_00]: Could you not say the exact same thing for transatlantic flying?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or we not too dependent on European Airlines raising fairs like crazy and taking advantage of people you need to fly transatlantic and not allowing other airlines to enter that market? [SPEAKER_00]: It's just ironic because this narrative suits them to Asia. [SPEAKER_00]: But how else am I supposed to get?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the amazing thing about these airlines is that [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm including Turkish here, I can get from Scandinavia to most of the world in one stop. [SPEAKER_00]: If I want to fly lifetons, I can't even go to many capital cities in Asia with millions and millions of people living there with one stop.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have to connect twice. [SPEAKER_00]: So what benefit are they giving us exactly? [SPEAKER_01]: And I also found this quite peculiar because nobody has tapped him on the shoulder [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, in the Lufthansa CEO case, when you are trashing non-EU carriers during a conflict and you're saying that they are the reason why we don't fly east, they are the reason why we're not flying to capital cities across Asia.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just remember that your star alliance partners, the very airlines that you are supposedly in joint partnership with are those airlines you are complaining about Singapore Airlines, tie and so on. [SPEAKER_01]: These are the airlines that lift unsat hand their passengers off to as part of the corporate code share agreements, alliance partnerships and whatnot, all of those, all of those different levels of integration there.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it just felt, it felt, to be honest, and transatlantic didn't get a mention. [SPEAKER_01]: These airlines have absolute dominance if it's to fly west and on the transatlantic route, there is a reason why the route, for example, between Heathrow and New York, [SPEAKER_01]: is the world's only billion dollar air route.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is because of the dominance that I.A.G. [SPEAKER_01]: Lufthansa Group and to an extent, everyone's K.L.M. [SPEAKER_01]: have on everything flying that way. [SPEAKER_01]: But fun enough, that hasn't been part of this conversation. [SPEAKER_01]: They are blaming their partners as to why they don't fly the other way.

[SPEAKER_01]: When actually, they are welcome. [SPEAKER_01]: uh to fly by those markets uh direct routes to Asia but they don't because they know that what they are competing with is a product that can't compete with the other carers uh that that that are their partners ultimately and also their priorities were elsewhere for so long and notably the other way the other direction.

[SPEAKER_01]: So but this this sentiment has been there for a long time. [SPEAKER_01]: This is nothing new coming from from Air France front from Lafdonser. [SPEAKER_01]: I just feel really now you're being asked about the conflict and the crisis and you're saying that This is the wake-up call now. [SPEAKER_01]: I felt it was a bit tasteless in my opinion [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would love to wrap up just with a discussion around some of the questions that if you remember last week, Kevin gave us these discussion points, which obviously the conflict is evolving very rapidly. [SPEAKER_00]: Now there's news of a potential deal right on the table. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's difficult to say, you know, if this stops next week, then a lot of these discussion points might be irrelevant.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if it does end up going on longer, then yeah, these are things that are worth looking at, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, of course, and we're hopeful that there is progress that has been some diplomacy. [SPEAKER_01]: in the background, but to what extent that will translate into a meaningful end, it's still a little unclear.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, let's get to it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what do you think that this is some, the demand implications, or something that could potentially push etihad or Emirates toward an alliance, or is that wishful thinking? [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's wish for slash slightly delusional, but I only mean that in a playful way and I say that because [SPEAKER_01]: to understand why Emirates Neti had a knot together yet is to understand the politics of not just the Gulf but of the UAE.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think we are going to be seeing Abu Dhabi and Dubai merge those two carriers anytime soon. [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's, they have different visions for a different purpose for each respective carrier. [SPEAKER_01]: And even with the current conflict and the way that there has been crisis hitting them both equally, I still think that these [SPEAKER_01]: two airlines that will continue to be two separate airlines going forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: What about the odds of them joining an airline alliance? [SPEAKER_01]: I think I would see it more likely for for Etihad than Emirates. [SPEAKER_01]: Emirates has been able to prove that it doesn't really need alliances or the benefits that the alliance brings. [SPEAKER_01]: But I could see Etihad be willing to have that conversation and immediately [SPEAKER_00]: Starlines comes into my head for totally have that although many of the partners yeah many of their partners are sky team But that is such a sort of whole four star Alliance that could be filled so beautifully by Etihad that of course You sound like Trump I would love if they could join, but I I find that unlikely in the short term as well

[SPEAKER_00]: What do we think about, you know, we've seen some sanctions removed on Russia, which is quite unfortunate, but necessary. [SPEAKER_00]: Do we think that there's any chance of, you know, reopening the Russian skies for easier overflight? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think so. [SPEAKER_01]: No, I think that's getting a bit ahead of ourselves.

[SPEAKER_01]: Attempting or successfully ending this current conflict which just as a to put this on the record this is not something that the U.S. is now coming in as a savior to end they are the ones that started this with his route and this is why it's known as the U.S. is where I wore on Iran but the the the idea that That they could be able to or or will be able to end this I feel is fueling those discussions.

[SPEAKER_01]: between Russian Ukraine and although I'm not aware if they are having direct negotiations, I just think it's once again put that conflict a little more close to the front pages. [SPEAKER_01]: then where it has been previously where people have started to forget sadly that Ukraine is still caught up in this scenario, regards to overflight, I think it's too early to say to be honest.

[SPEAKER_00]: Precisely. [SPEAKER_00]: Then, you know, he has a question about fifth, fifth freedom routes and two stop itineraries. [SPEAKER_00]: The thing is, this latest news that there's progress is really like throwing off these long-term thoughts, because if you had asked us just a few days ago, [SPEAKER_00]: I think now says yes because our perspective was really that there it's only getting worse.

[SPEAKER_00]: This could go on for a very long time. [SPEAKER_00]: It could still do that out. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's hard to say because we were reading headlines last week about a surlongkin. [SPEAKER_00]: basically abandoned airport offering Middle Eastern carriers to set up a hub there, which was a completely delusional proposal, but you know, that showed the extent to which this could be a crisis.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think we really have to wait until maybe next week to see what we would comment on some of these other things. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So let's get to more Q&A in next week's episode. [SPEAKER_01]: And in the meantime, just a reminder, you can send in any thoughts, comments or questions to our shared Instagram at on air with Dan and Alex, which is all one word.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we're also delighted to see that our listening figures are up across the board with most of you listening via Spotify. [SPEAKER_01]: So we're very grateful for that. [SPEAKER_01]: And if you do enjoy the episode or you think it provides valuable insight, please go ahead and [SPEAKER_01]: it directly with your colleagues perhaps in the industry with people that you know in aviation because we're always keen to grow the aviation community.

[SPEAKER_01]: Dan, we will regroup all being well this time next week and we will have the update on what's happening globally with aviation. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's hope for the best. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we'll see you all next week on air. [SPEAKER_00]: Bye bye. [SPEAKER_00]: See you soon.

Air Canada Jet Collides with Fire Truck at New York LaGuardia Airport

Kapitelklicken springt direkt hin

Shownotes

Transkriptvom Podcast bereitgestellt · Zeitmarken springen hin