Aviation Career Advice: What We Wish We Knew at 15

0:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Dan and I'm Alex and welcome back to on air available or whatever you get your podcast, but of course you already know that because you listen to us. [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, how are you Dan? [SPEAKER_00]: It's every week when you say that I'm like, they know where to find us. [SPEAKER_00]: It's everyone else.

0:18 [SPEAKER_01]: But I listen to a couple of podcasts where they say, um, [SPEAKER_01]: they say okay guys we're gonna take a short break we'll be right back and then there's like intro music and then they say well come back and always think I never went anywhere there were no adverts and it was you that took the break and it wasn't us so yeah yeah that is I see both sides of the behind the mic and also just you know if owns it that's the main behind the mothers [SPEAKER_01]: We should do an episode on you that you know that I was going to say the D behind the mic because you're not because of tan like tan and out of it [SPEAKER_00]: How are we now?

1:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Today, we have some fun stuff in store. [SPEAKER_00]: We, we're going to do a bit of Q&A, but we want to answer one of the most calm in the asked questions that we never get around to answering because it's such a big topic. [SPEAKER_00]: Which is Dan and Alex, can you enter your entrepreneur, bro, era and tell us about how you ended up doing what you do and what advice you have for other people who are interested in doing the same.

1:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the reality is, you and I get asked this on an almost daily basis, whether it's by LinkedIn, on Instagram, through DM, emails, and so on. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not necessarily, obviously, it's on the one side's fixable approach, but also it's not that it's the same real current question.

1:55 [SPEAKER_01]: It ranges from, you know, how did you XYZ to also what do you, you know, what's the advice or what's there and any kind of [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, any kind of direction we could provide to those who love aviation or inspired by or want to follow a path and you're right, we don't dedicate time to this and we should because perhaps even just one little bit of info stemming from years and years ago could help give someone that idea of.

2:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, they should. [SPEAKER_01]: And you should because they always think to have a passion, especially a passion like aviation, is such a blessing because most of you guys listen to this, we'll probably have that passion. [SPEAKER_01]: Therefore, you will listen to this podcast.

2:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Just imagine everyone else that you know that there are so many people that don't have [SPEAKER_01]: they're not passionate about something or they don't have a hobby and that's not through no thought of their own. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just they're just not feeling it right and so I always think that it's such a blessing if you do because that itself gives you purpose to be able to say okay what can I do with that then?

3:00 [SPEAKER_01]: How am I going to have what's that going to look like for me personally? [SPEAKER_00]: very true. [SPEAKER_00]: One thing, I think we shared a dress that we do address this sometimes, but there's, I mean, the amount of people I'll speak for myself that are like, oh, he comes from a rich family, he comes from a rich background, that's how he's able to do the DNA variation.

3:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, daddy's money. [SPEAKER_00]: It's always a daddy's money. [SPEAKER_00]: Look at this trust fund kid. [SPEAKER_00]: We are both. [SPEAKER_00]: If you saw the houses we grew up in, what we grew up doing, we come from middle-class families and we did not grow up traveling the world like we do now at all.

3:43 [SPEAKER_00]: We both really created this from scratch at a young age and it's I understand that it it seems unbelievable because even so like we look at each other and we're like Alex not [SPEAKER_00]: It's genuinely just like if you want something, you can make it happen, that's really like the point here because we both knew what we wanted from such a young age.

4:10 [SPEAKER_01]: We often say that not only will we lucky to know from such a young age, that we had known what we wanted to do. [SPEAKER_01]: There was a time, I believe it is still the case, maybe not the first or second such, but the third or fourth. [SPEAKER_01]: If you Google either your name or my name, the words that follow that is typically farther, because they're trying, because people are curious as to, okay, who their father is, and [SPEAKER_01]: That's not because the world is a monster and they've all just decided it's nepotism.

4:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It's because not only is nepotism rife, but I can remember sitting at Airbus at 15 years old and it was something to do with their financial results and they invited up the C-suite onto the stage and it was the CFO, it was the Chief Commercial Officer, the Finance Commercial and a couple of others and they all from the you know the Executive Committee of Airbus.

5:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And the moderator said, oh, chief financial officer, your father was this in Abbas and your grandfather was this for the company that became Abbas. [SPEAKER_01]: And he said, yes, yes, that's true. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is then he passed to the chief commercial officer. [SPEAKER_01]: And he said, and your grandfather, he said, what my grandfather here in Toulouse was blah, blah, blah, and then he to my father.

5:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And the journey. [SPEAKER_01]: And actually it was kind of, it was both sweet but also tone-deaf because it was, wow, actually, this is not a humble beginning story, but rather it was literally just, okay, you followed the family path. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they were going back to sometimes three generations and their parents specifically, their fathers were and their fathers, father.

5:52 [SPEAKER_01]: were a very established prominent individuals in the aviation sector way back then and now these guys are established prominent aviation officials in the sector so naturally it's assumed that for a lot of people that is just the journey and I think you and I may be even sound slightly defensive when we preemptively bring this up but we're so [SPEAKER_01]: conscious when we meet someone like when you and I've been at the same event and this topic starts to bubble up and we're like no no just to be clear neither other families were in aviation.

6:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I was used the anecdote of the like my parents didn't even like to fly indeed but they didn't like it and and and and therefore you know this is genuinely a [SPEAKER_01]: First generation passion thing whereby we're not just following what like my my father, for example, is what what I have for Aviation and the passion and the love and obsession with it My father has with with motorsport with cars with with certain cars and and so I could easily have just I don't follow that or had that and and I didn't because that's just not what Your father owns an F1 team, but you're taking a different path [SPEAKER_01]: He does not, and then, and she also, can we just dangerous like, what do we just talk about?

7:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And now you're planting fake news. [SPEAKER_00]: That is not, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: My father, I did F1 team, I would not be spending my wins that took him to you on a podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: That's fair, that's totally fair. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the point we want to get out there. [SPEAKER_00]: And we want to, you know, especially to the young people who [SPEAKER_00]: I love when we get messages from, you know, people in their teens, saying that they're inspired for their future career.

7:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And I often don't believe, it sounds weird to say, when we get DMs from people like crediting us with making them realize something that they want to do in life. [SPEAKER_00]: But we do genuinely get quite a few messages from people saying, wow, you inspired me to [SPEAKER_00]: job that I enjoy so much because you open my eyes to it.

8:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And we, I mean, yes, that's one part we're doing indirectly, but I think, you know, to any young person listening, we also want to tell you that you can literally get any job you can envision, even a job that doesn't exist yet. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I've got a message and I haven't replied yet and I should have, but I'm going to read it right now on that topic.

8:34 [SPEAKER_01]: This came through two weeks ago, June 30th, Hi Alex is from Alina. [SPEAKER_01]: Hope you're doing great. [SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to say thank you. [SPEAKER_01]: You have changed my career. [SPEAKER_01]: I have been following you on Instagram for quite a while, I'm currently doing my Masters in Space Science and honestly, you're one of the reasons which made me fall in love with aerospace, along with my love now for the sky and physics.

8:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Your passion for aviation inspired me to follow my dreams despite of anything. [SPEAKER_01]: and then she goes on to ask out of curiosity. [SPEAKER_01]: Did you ever imagine that your aviation passion would end up shaping someone's career? [SPEAKER_01]: Huge thank you again. [SPEAKER_01]: I hope you're having a great week.

9:08 [SPEAKER_01]: That's such a beautiful message. [SPEAKER_01]: It's so nice. [SPEAKER_01]: But also thankfully there are so many of them because if anything, what comes very natural to us in conversation and which is passion for aviation spilling out onto a podcast or a thousands of you are listening. [SPEAKER_01]: Is it self enough to make someone [SPEAKER_01]: definitely being phoved in one way or another, exactly.

9:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's this, of course, doesn't own the applied aviation that applies to whatever your dream is, but let's talk about, you know, you have been broadcasting since such a young age. [SPEAKER_00]: What made you even get the nerve to start doing that so young and gave you the idea. [SPEAKER_01]: I think there was no idea of it.

9:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't set out, say, right, I'm going to be, for example, on TV at 16 discussing XYZ. [SPEAKER_01]: Again, it was just born out of the innocence of the passion and I, so there are a few things, there's always told, again, young people this that get in touch, which is that [SPEAKER_01]: I read like a maniac when I was a kid and that's like that can't be I mean that's an understatement so I wasn't keen on Xbox I wasn't keen on playstation things I just loved reading about aviation and and that was my that's what I love to do and research and I would sit and this is back when the internet went and had to get off of the internet on AOL when mum needed to make a phone call because you couldn't be on the internet

10:41 [SPEAKER_01]: on dialogue internet at the same time as the landline needing to be used, so I have to step away for a bit. [SPEAKER_01]: She has a goal, I go back on and I'm like, on airliners.net back then, which, ironically, the website looks exactly the same today as it did 25 years ago. [SPEAKER_01]: So that was a real passion and flying flight simulator and all of that at home, flight simulator, 1998, 2004 and so.

11:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I would actively email conference host when I knew there was an aviation conference happening. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, let's say in London, I would actively email and say hi, can I attend? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm only 13, but I'm incredibly enthusiastic about aviation. [SPEAKER_01]: And I notice that this company, for example, will be exhibiting and I would love to have a chat with them about their future engines.

11:34 [SPEAKER_01]: and most of the time that email would trigger such a positive response because Littard did I know how unusual that was at the time and also it would be like, wow, this is, you know, they were keen to meet in that, to meet and have that conversation with someone who really wanted to, so that kind of send me kind of passes because you, when you entered your date, there was no box for you to be under 16 to be going to an aviation event.

11:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So I really, really proactively made sure I was everywhere that was in the aviation space. [SPEAKER_01]: I went to Boeing when they first unveiled the Dreamliner. [SPEAKER_01]: I went to Boeing's flight training center at London Gatwick. [SPEAKER_01]: and I was so young and it wasn't allowed to take any pictures.

12:20 [SPEAKER_01]: They were just unveiling the 787 Dreamliner flight deck for the first time and I met Peter Berkel who was the pilot who landed the BA triple 7 that had the accident that he threw. [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was being, you know BA 38, the one that was coming from. [SPEAKER_01]: Beijing where it was ice wasn't it that was the cause of the, he had no thrust, he had no power in the last something like 15 seconds just before landing and it caused the aircraft to crash land just short of the runway.

12:56 [SPEAKER_01]: and that was a really complex crash because he struggled to work after that because he had a crash on his record. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, at the same time he was the one that saved everybody and there was this difference where Captain Sully in the US was this like, [SPEAKER_01]: National hero, whereas Peter Burke, who was struggling to work, even though he had saved everyone as a result of the issue.

13:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was ice crystals that were formed in the jet fuel. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was clogging one of the heat exchanges. [SPEAKER_01]: And basically, he's on final approach. [SPEAKER_01]: And the engines are just not splitting up. [SPEAKER_01]: There's no thrust. [SPEAKER_01]: He's on empty.

13:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So when I met him, I said to him, and I was a kid, and my voice had not broken, and I was like, like, kid kid, and I said to him, uh, nice to meet you, and he said, oh, nice to meet you too, and man, and I said, I think it was really unfair. [SPEAKER_01]: What Britshow is dead after you saved everyone with that, with how you landed the aircraft, and I'm really upset that BA kind of behave that way.

14:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And he looked and I remember him looking up to the adults and the room and he said, who is this kid? [SPEAKER_01]: I love him. [SPEAKER_01]: He said, I love this kid. [SPEAKER_01]: He said, Alex, we need to talk more. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's those small moments stay in your head because for me, I had read everything about the accident.

14:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember it being live on TV at the time when it happened on that cold January day. [SPEAKER_01]: And then like meeting him was like, my idea of like, yeah, meeting someone important in the industry I like and I wouldn't have been able to meet him or have seen the 787 cockpit and so on if I hadn't spoken to Boeing and spoken to the flight center, the training center in the UK, to make sure that I could be there despite being very young and so on.

14:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was, I was very, very proactive that way. [SPEAKER_00]: Did you never get impulsed to a syndrome? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I, I'm too young to be here. [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, do you know what? [SPEAKER_01]: That's thank God thank God like I didn't and not because that there wasn't this like I just don't Not because there was an overconfidence because they definitely wasn't any of that.

15:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I was you know, still kind of like quiet and and and you know, but not [SPEAKER_01]: not one of those you know when you see now you meet kids some set a certain type of kid will just be like that I'm imagining I'm going to speak about like my little cousin his school friends and they will go to a private school in in London his school friends when I hear them I've [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god because they're just so it's cocky confident like it's a lot.

15:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like relax your seven you're talking shit Yeah, or they're like seven and they're going to me. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you not know what crypto is like yeah go away [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, all that kind of making sure that I wanted to be there to learn to be around those people, to stay in contact with them.

16:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And at the same time, I also did utilising enough spoken words for, I did utilised things like pocket money by working at the golf club or the opposite or washing cars or whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: to save to then fly on day trips so that I could fly a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: So back then, BA regularly had 35 pound each way flights to and from Europe.

16:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So I will book those and I'll book them to cities that my parents deemed safe but I would crucially not be able to enter those cities. [SPEAKER_01]: I would just be [SPEAKER_01]: London, to Copenhagen, have a 10 hour transit into paratrooper Copenhagen, and then fly back, Copenhagen, London, for me it was their best days ever, because I had two flights in one day, I'd choose maybe where the 767 flu, I'd write to be able for or I'd write a letter that I'd give to the crew to, and they'd give to the captain, then he'd invite me into the flight deck, so I'd do as much proactive things as I could, not because I knew of an end goal, just because that felt right at the time.

17:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's it's crazy how different like our youth was in that way because I was trapped in Gothenburg. [SPEAKER_00]: I think if I would have been in London, it might have been very different. [SPEAKER_00]: But because of where I was, it was like flying was the way to escape and to get out of this place I didn't like.

17:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, but it was never genuinely, well, you know, did you did you feel that Golden Bag was limiting when you were yours? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I did. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I didn't like living there from like the age of 12. [SPEAKER_00]: So very early. [SPEAKER_00]: I started getting frustrated with it because I had the contrast with New York.

17:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I'm just so grateful that I had the New York [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what word to use, but let's just say American culture is very encouraging of people doing their own thing and pursuing their dreams. [SPEAKER_01]: Especially today, I mean, that's something I admire of US culture, which there's for so much wrong with it, for so much wrong with the US.

18:23 [SPEAKER_01]: the way that they kind of hush each other on to go further or celebrate, you know, the smaller successes next chat, next steps, unlocking achievements. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it's like not a thing in so many European countries. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, don't, you know, don't go on about it or whatever, which is like, you need to push, you need to to strive for more.

18:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the thing I'm noticing that we both were lucky to have is parents who encouraged our passion or who allowed us to pursue it because I'm really grateful to my dad for always, I mean he's the most like maximalist New Yorker in the sense of [SPEAKER_00]: Anything is possible and he like growing up.

19:13 [SPEAKER_00]: That was always what he told me. [SPEAKER_00]: You should as soon I should I remember the first time I showed him my YouTube channel Which I had it like a year at that point, but it was my little secret no when I knew knew about it besides a couple friends at school So when I he found out about it.

19:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I had like I don't know a thousand subscribers and he was like [SPEAKER_01]: This is mind-blowing, this is amazing, Daniel. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, why aren't you talking to us about this? [SPEAKER_00]: And it was always about, like, you should be reaching out to Aline's CEOs that want to talk to you.

19:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And because of the sweeter side, it was like, okay, that's crazy, I can't do that. [SPEAKER_00]: So he was telling me that for so many years, like you should, oh, you could do so much, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: bigger this or that like you just need to sit down and find the contact for this person and it wasn't until I was basically 17 that I was like you know what?

20:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was appropriate for me to wait that long because what I started realizing is that yeah what I can provide is unique and something of value and that's like a takeaway that I want people to have that [SPEAKER_00]: Think of, there are so many gaps that are unfilled still to this day, although it feels like there's a million entrepreneurs in this and that, there are so many things that are missing that we don't know are missing, but like back then my thing was, well, on YouTube, there's no reviews of most airlines in 2014, 2015, there were like barely any reviews of major airlines.

20:56 [SPEAKER_00]: then when I started emailing airlines in 2015, I was like, you need a video of your business class experience on YouTube because this is where people are going to look for these days. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And then of course they were like, oh yeah, we kind of do after I convince them of the value of YouTube.

21:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So obviously now there's a million videos from each airline, but if, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: If someone were to reach out to me with a well thought through proposal of this is something I realize you need and I have a passion for this topic, not just I get emails all the time from these like entrepreneur guys who want to help me and thousands of other people with some BS whatever.

21:44 [SPEAKER_00]: But like if you have a thought through thing that you're passionate about that can help [SPEAKER_00]: or a person, I think so many people would very enthusiastically hear about that because you're helping them with their job as well. [SPEAKER_01]: So true. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why, I mean, I guess that's what we're having this conversation, right?

22:07 [SPEAKER_01]: When you were growing up, did you and you were going back and forth? [SPEAKER_01]: How often would you go to dad over in New York? [SPEAKER_00]: Three to four times a year? [SPEAKER_01]: And do you think that's what sparked the aviation thing or was it there before well as a kid I always I liked all transportation.

22:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I love trains as much as planes, but Because that I didn't that wasn't yeah, yeah, yeah, it's I mean that is interesting But it was definitely the yeah, the flying transit line tick even after the first time I did it [SPEAKER_00]: It took a few years after moving to Sweden until I was allowed, but then when I was 11, I flew transatlantic and this like interest I had just like called fire into the biggest passion as as I started thinking about weight.

23:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I want any 340. [SPEAKER_00]: What's [SPEAKER_00]: I've heard these things, but what actually is the difference between that and an A330? [SPEAKER_00]: And then all that, yeah, all that started happening around the age of 11. [SPEAKER_00]: And then I go off the microsoft lights, some of you later, which is like cracks.

23:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, we were both on that. [SPEAKER_01]: When you think now about those questions that we received, which sparked this conversation about kind of advice for that age period, that mine has just been as a zed, is to [SPEAKER_01]: To follow the passion and don't write it off as don't keep it as something as necessarily just a hobby, it doesn't have to be number one.

23:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Number two, to hopefully, and I realize there's a lot of people say that that parents don't want them to go down the certain avenue they've decided that parents want their son or daughter to go down X Avenue, perhaps it doesn't align with their aviation. [SPEAKER_01]: So what you're doing that scenario?

24:00 [SPEAKER_01]: You like we obviously didn't face that and there was encouragement there I can remember mum like my mum always telling me to just you know, either go for it or to you know They would make it easy for me by driving me to certain places drop me off for the day I mean, I would if I had a free Saturday I'd want to be dropped off at the airport and I'll just run around the server [SPEAKER_01]: As a, you know, just taking it all in is so kind of all up and looking at the check in and imagining, you know, how all these people are going to be on an aircraft in a couple of hours, how lucky.

24:31 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that was the, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: On that, oh, they're, how lucky to be on that Ryan air aircraft taking off. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know about that, but no, even back then. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was a kid. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, it's the same.

24:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I used to, you know, there was no, just the fact that trouble was in a nape love, always loved. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, precisely. [SPEAKER_00]: For me, my parents didn't necessarily encourage it as a job, more as like a passion. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that once I showed them that I'm actually making money from this and this can be a job, it's easy to win people over.

25:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we both, well, I'll speak for myself. [SPEAKER_00]: I very much believe in like, don't overstate what you're doing. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like a bit superstitious, just just do it, be a bit low key, and then it will speak for itself, eventually. [SPEAKER_00]: That's my philosophy.

25:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So like, I do think that the the the goal thing, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So don't necessarily say, and then this is going to unlock this in month six is like actually I was I think just. [SPEAKER_01]: Go with the flow. [SPEAKER_01]: If you have that passion and many of you do the listeners, they're going to touch with us, then follow it.

25:38 [SPEAKER_01]: See where it leads, keep an open mind, meet people, network, conference, see what parts of the industry you like. [SPEAKER_01]: I was completely set on being a pilot. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I was totally, did you ever have that? [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I think I was like gas lit into thinking I should be a pilot because, because everyone's like, Oh, you love planes.

26:02 [SPEAKER_00]: You should be a pilot and eventually I started thinking maybe I should, but I don't think I ever actually [SPEAKER_01]: I always wanted to be the passenger, so I used to say that I still love the idea of it. [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's an amazing job to fly and to be a pilot but specifically I wanted to be a Michelin pilot, of course.

26:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But then I started to realise, and the realisation was, I loved too much of what was outside of the cockpit door. [SPEAKER_01]: I loved too much of the business of aviation. [SPEAKER_01]: The industry itself, the whole scope of like, what a complex beast, the work so well to get people from A to B, and I felt that flying was just a very specific part of that wider industry, and it was the wider industry that I had [SPEAKER_01]: a greater passion for not simply just the art of lying.

26:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I, if I were talking about this before, I always think that if I could think of like, what is the most fun job that is more, it's not easily attainable, but more attainable than just like, I want to be CEO. [SPEAKER_00]: If you could just go and pick like one job in the industry, [SPEAKER_00]: So like the most aviki job, imagine like he throw ATC.

27:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, I mean the pressure, air traffic controllers, I think there's the highest pressure job going. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, so you wouldn't do that. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I, I think I would love it. [SPEAKER_01]: I think I would love it. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think also to be able to meet that moment of like, you know, zero error tolerance and the, the cognitive load and the, the, you know, just the, to maintain that stability with supply pressure, yeah.

27:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And I, so, but, but at the same time, I think, wow, it's, [SPEAKER_01]: So, so important that I'm almost intimidated by the idea of it, just the precision of knowing why it has to work, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Where was like L.I.N. [SPEAKER_01]: CEOs, for example, make mistakes. [SPEAKER_01]: all the time they all do the wrong aircraft, they fly to the wrong destinations, sometimes they sign agreements to fly from Abu Dhabi to Bangkok for no clear reason.

28:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, actually that's a lie. [SPEAKER_01]: Add listeners seem to believe from last week's episode. [SPEAKER_01]: There were a few comments, a bit of condo love wasn't there in the comments. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, good, good for them. [SPEAKER_00]: Condor is a good alternative to Lufthansa.

28:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So, so, again. [SPEAKER_00]: So, one thread I'm seeing between us is actually just, for example, my dad was telling [SPEAKER_00]: try to reach out and do this and that. [SPEAKER_00]: But really what worked in the end is just like leaning into the passion and the excitement and the fun. [SPEAKER_00]: If you really let yourself like be fully enveloped in a passion for something, you'll automatically find the things you want to do and it will draw you there.

29:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think either of us ever strategize to this or where like this is the next [SPEAKER_01]: by that part because there's like there's a lady that I met not too long ago in Singapore and she said that her sons who were like seven or eight years old like obsessed with aviation she said oh he's just like you and you were young.

29:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like okay so she said so what what did you so what did you do when you ate what was your target then for when you were nine and tell her as if as if like you know clawed and judging we did put together this strategy that and it was like I was looking at how like she was nearly I'm like no we're talking about just as you say.

29:45 [SPEAKER_00]: We're leaning to the majority kids who love Netflix. [SPEAKER_01]: Lean into the passion and see where it takes you. [SPEAKER_01]: Network, network, network is always my advice there. [SPEAKER_01]: Show up. [SPEAKER_01]: Go to places, surround yourself by those in the industry, learn, build contacts, make contacts, immerse yourself in everything that's happening locally, internationally.

30:08 [SPEAKER_01]: If you can save, spend wisely, do what you can to [SPEAKER_01]: to feel that you are already having a sense of belonging to an industry and a purpose documenting it in a way that you like, whether that's through photography, whether that's writing on a website, whether that's freelancing and giving some analysis on an article, seeing if this publication likes your thoughts on this or if you have a take on that, [SPEAKER_01]: assess and be in the note so read know what's happening in the industry.

30:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Today know what happened yesterday and know how that links with something ten years ago and I would say the context is really good. [SPEAKER_01]: It's surprising how many people know about the now but they have no clue as to actually the key to understanding exactly what's happening now is understanding what happened 20 years ago or 30 years ago and why it's now relevant or a big deal now.

31:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So read and [SPEAKER_01]: Get the context, network, what does it say? [SPEAKER_01]: Follow the passion, lean into it, don't try to stratize too hard and be robotic and systematic about it. [SPEAKER_01]: As if AI is going to be able to map it out all clearly for you, follow your own path as using individual.

31:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's probably the best advice that we could give for those who want to explore this amazing industry. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but also I think we have slightly different perspective. [SPEAKER_00]: So you choose like which path you go, mine is just like have fun with it. [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't if you focus too much on something becoming a job and like I need to make money from this.

31:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I need to get this or that, then it's good. [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have 10 times more resistance instead of just enjoying it. [SPEAKER_00]: And you say network, I would say like just make friends. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, of course, and that's actually quite literally what I mean. [SPEAKER_01]: It's about showing up to the aviation fests and building those relationships with people who are like minded and also some of them may be just on your side of things, whether they're not working in the industry and some may be working in the industry and one thing that is a commonality throughout the sector is that when you start speaking to whether it's an executive or pilot or a crew member,

32:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Typically, the commonality of all of it is a passion for aviation more often than not. [SPEAKER_01]: There's very few industries I think, where in the food industry, for example, everyone working in the food industry is completely passionate about food. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just not as consistent, but with aviation I really think it is.

32:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's funny also how when we met each other, we were really on the cusp of what became, you know, our thing. [SPEAKER_00]: We were trying to figure it out. [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, I had my YouTube channel for example, but it wasn't until a couple years after we became friends that I became like a full-time thing and I started making [SPEAKER_00]: an income from it.

33:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's funny because I remember when we met that was your first never-time at Airbus and I was first saying to you like like that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've been here 20 times kind of there. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was better. [SPEAKER_01]: Let me show you around but then but then also there was you know we were also discussing how still it was incredibly unusual at that time of age and the difference [SPEAKER_01]: but not that it should let.

33:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Not that it should stop anyone. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're, you know, go for it, that that's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't overthink. [SPEAKER_01]: There's so much overthinking nowadays, so much over what if it doesn't end up in a career. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, how are you going to know?

33:48 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to start, right? [SPEAKER_01]: You have to try and lean into it. [SPEAKER_01]: Stop trying to figure out every step from the first. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, again, if you're just doing it for fun, then it's also like it doesn't matter if it turns into a career. [SPEAKER_00]: If it does that to loneliness.

34:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you're just doing it for the pure enjoyment, then that's worth it in and of itself. [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have to give you anything more than happiness. [SPEAKER_01]: yeah agreed it's funny because some of my best like friends in the industry and like who are like contacts and now are close friends and even we call them family members because we say oh it's a family affair so you know you have you met my quote unquote unquote unquote of course [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so you've met Uncle Kurt and it's funny because when we're out and we were of course just at the Rio IRTAGM in Brazil and I was with Uncle Kurt who's not my uncle, but that's the we always say there's a family We've got different family members cousins who we say who are at Airbus Sisters who are at Boeing and so and these are people that we've traveled around the world with on groups In delegations as part of aircraft deliveries or going to the same conferences or gathering for the same financial results

34:54 [SPEAKER_01]: and we've literally been around, I've been around the world with these people more than family. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a spent time with them in hotels. [SPEAKER_01]: We've been in the middle of Mauritius and a result surrounded by a honeymooners and then there's a table of like 15 of us and we look like the weirdest holiday makers ever because it's such an unclear demographic compared with everyone that's on their honeymoon to the conference rooms in Düsseldorf and just two weeks ago at the Rio [SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny because Kurt sat next to me in Helsinki at a dinner shortly after the first ever European A350 delivery, which was to fin air.

35:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're just arrived in Helsinki. [SPEAKER_01]: It was one of the most memorable way through 50 deliveries ever, partly because it was the first European, but also fin air went all out and those ladies that were in fin air at the time phenomenon. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was that the ladies in the executive team who were leading that delivery, it was amazing.

35:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So we were at the dinner and my seat ends up being next to Kurt and he's in the middle of the dinner he sat and he turned him and he said to me, so who are you? [SPEAKER_01]: Because I see you everywhere. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny because that very blunt who are you? [SPEAKER_01]: we now joke about like well over a decade later because it was the beginning of what we call the family affair and all these kind of inside jokes and so on and charting rather world and so it's the the some amazing friendships born out of [SPEAKER_01]: just, you know, unexpectedly being a part of the same group who were invited on a delivery because I was broadcasting at the time on this channel and Kurt was broadcasting on that channel in Austria and so on.

36:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a good thing. [SPEAKER_00]: I think like we should also encourage everyone in the industry who's listening and I know that or I work quite conscious of this, I think if we're out in a van, [SPEAKER_00]: and you see someone who's young, who seems to be new, there are something, those are the people who you should go up to and welcome and be like, what are you doing here?

37:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Because they're the future, right, of whatever's going on here. [SPEAKER_00]: And what you have with Kurt, I mean, everyone is looking for some sort of [SPEAKER_00]: older men or someone who can be like a point of comfort in a very hostile environment sometimes so it's not really a person for you That's really valid because cut would do cut would explain to some people even now He would say yes, even at each other.

37:33 [SPEAKER_01]: This is as long as he'd say [SPEAKER_01]: and Kurt would always say, which is the reason he'd say yes and actually said, we learned from each other because Kurt would say that he finds out or learns so many things from me maybe in a more tech-savvy way or just like a young orientate way and similarly of course, you know, I could pick Kurt's brain.

37:53 [SPEAKER_01]: for hours about historically things in the sector and his, for example, his friendship, his very close friendship with Nikki Lauda, an aviation legend, F1 driver, a still relevant today with his legacy in aviation. [SPEAKER_01]: And actually I was in to lose at Airbus the morning that Nikhil out there passed and Kurt was with us and we felt really sad for him and also he spent the whole day kind of on TV, you know, providing commentary on on his friend and the legacy of his friend.

38:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, you're right, you know, people, they should, you know, people in the industry should notice, yeah, yeah, like notice who's showing up, notice who's and that's why that's why sometimes I feel bad because you and I get these messages and emails and we haven't because just for many reasons, we haven't always got back to those you have.

38:48 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm really glad that we've spent the best part of 40 minutes. [SPEAKER_01]: discussing this to give similar advice from different perspectives with the same kind of common goal, which is keep going early into it, so get up, absorb it, go with the flow, don't stress, have fun. [SPEAKER_00]: That's it.

39:08 [SPEAKER_00]: We are going to wrap up now guys. [SPEAKER_00]: I know it seems like a slightly shorter episode than usual since you sit until the end will give you the spoiler which won't go anywhere or this teaser that we recorded a 30 minute episode before this that went in the trash. [SPEAKER_01]: We've had to pin it.

39:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was on and it's entirely [SPEAKER_01]: different subject. [SPEAKER_01]: Completely unrelated, we recorded 30 minutes of it and for reasons we cannot yet discuss, we have already been recording for one over an hour, [SPEAKER_01]: But unfortunately, you won't hear the first 30 minutes.

39:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, you might hear it if I need to blackmail the other courier house, that's a conversation between you and I, and I'll let you know, because he just has deleted it. [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, everyone has the recently deleted folder. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: And just so all the listeners know to clear something up has deleted episode.

40:10 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't even want to hear it. [SPEAKER_00]: It is not interesting at all. [SPEAKER_00]: Which is why we've been dead. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you say that and it sounds so interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: Even I now want to go back and revisit that pilot. [SPEAKER_00]: We were trying a new thing.

40:24 [SPEAKER_00]: We might try it again sometime. [SPEAKER_01]: We might try it again, but it just didn't it didn't work We're we're open to trying things and we just we both knew the end of it Note that wasn't good, so it's in the trash. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well on on that note We will see you off next week for a regular episode of all in error and until then [SPEAKER_00]: As always, wait.

40:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like I'm ending a YouTube video. [SPEAKER_00]: I shouldn't say this. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll just say see you next week. [SPEAKER_01]: I think you can keep this bed in its phone. [SPEAKER_01]: We like imperfection. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: So just keep it in and also you need to plug the podcast more in your videos.

40:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I've been watching your videos. [SPEAKER_01]: They're great. [SPEAKER_01]: This is if you don't do a podcast. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, it's as if you don't give a podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what, when we need to do another flight together, that is the best possible plug. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll try to plug it without, but what can we do?

41:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's cook something. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's take this conversation off that. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, okay guys, we will see you next week. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for joining us as always. [SPEAKER_01]: See you.