Big Aviation Changes: New CDG Terminal Names, New Qatar Airways CEO and More!

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Dan and I'm Alex and welcome back to on air it's another one's day these weeks seem to come by so fast don't they? [SPEAKER_02]: They fly by also I love your energy in this intro that was a really like welcome I'm thinking about 50 p.m. Dan. [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry because it's almost Christmas you can see the finish line in sight now.

0:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes don't you feel that? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah of course I don't you know there's like a moment where you feel it doesn't I feel like I felt it more [SPEAKER_02]: a couple weeks back, but that's because we've been moving around the world and also in different parts of the world where they're not celebrating Christmas as much as respective.

0:38 [SPEAKER_02]: home home home countries where family are at least. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, but don't you also feel that these are the most hectic weeks, like at least until a few days of Christmas, the past few weeks have just been literally non-stop. [SPEAKER_00]: I got an aura ring by the way, which keeps telling me I'm way too stressed.

0:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. [SPEAKER_00]: You're for the acknowledgement. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: So just this morning, on Reddit, [SPEAKER_02]: and he fills his finger twitching and he looks down and his aura ring is on fire on his finger because the aura ring is a lithium iron battery and he's struggled to get it off because it was like contracting, becoming smaller was on fire and he couldn't get it off and they [SPEAKER_02]: ended up coming off and then he took it to Reddit and he was like, you know, do you think I should let customer service know?

1:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And people were like, are you crazy? [SPEAKER_02]: You need to sue. [SPEAKER_02]: That was this morning. [SPEAKER_02]: So congratulations on your new purchase. [SPEAKER_02]: How's it going? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I got it on us for free with the black Friday sale plus an American Express credit.

1:54 [SPEAKER_00]: You get now in the US. [SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to try it out. [SPEAKER_02]: He was not an advert because it was not. [SPEAKER_00]: It was just [SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, it's just the American on the podcast to come and be like funny story. [SPEAKER_02]: I got it with the American Express You know when you watch the TV adverts of a pharmacy in America, and it's like side effects might include dying or nearly dying or blah blah [SPEAKER_00]: And you know what?

2:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I just read it like some study or watch some YouTube video recently that said that those disclaimers are actually like they have a positive effect on people's perception of a product the more disclaimers the more people are like oh wow They're very honest I like this and more likely to want to buy it [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

2:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Any time I'm in the US, I always associate it with kind of being in the bathroom, getting ready in the TV is on in the living room, and hearing these adverts. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm hearing, and I'm like, you know, maybe it was an advert for what I initially thought was just a yogurt or something.

2:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And then it's like diabetes, stroke, or dieting. [SPEAKER_02]: What? [SPEAKER_02]: It's just insane that they're listed that they go through is, I thought it would have the reverse effect. [SPEAKER_02]: I thought it would ensure that you [SPEAKER_02]: You don't buy it, you know? [SPEAKER_00]: I know, but apparently people do, I guess it's like a comforting type of thing.

3:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, let's move on from aura rings and letters. [SPEAKER_02]: No, but before we do, before we do, it's not about the aura ring. [SPEAKER_02]: But it is just a message to anyone listening, planning things, whether you're planning a conference or planning a networking event, perhaps you're planning to unveil or reveal, [SPEAKER_02]: Why are you all doing it in the same 18 days of December?

3:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Pre-Christmas, it is insane. [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody can catch a breath, the schedule in the aviation sector, in the travel sector, and then anything that touches travel is insane with these conflicts, and you can't be a multiple plate. [SPEAKER_02]: I just thought a little public service announcement.

4:01 [SPEAKER_02]: If this is you listening to this, there's a response ball. [SPEAKER_02]: would be a great idea to explore what about September? [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody touches September. [SPEAKER_02]: What about September? [SPEAKER_02]: What about April? [SPEAKER_02]: You know, what about it? [SPEAKER_00]: What about even June?

4:15 [SPEAKER_00]: June is a great month. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we went to the amazing rear air fashion show, which was out of perfect time to travel. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like come to our event in December in Hamburg. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like I would rather not, but thank you. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, true, but it's not also because of rather not, it's just because as you know, everything else takes time or your book to head with things and so it is weird, but this year I think has gone particularly fast.

4:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I won't general know everyone says that it almost becomes a cliche. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't necessarily think it's true for most of the year, but as I predicted, September, [SPEAKER_02]: until now, that was a blink of an eye. [SPEAKER_02]: That was extremely extremely quick. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was.

4:59 [SPEAKER_00]: It definitely was, but no, you know, who else can't catch a breath? [SPEAKER_02]: The poor folks at Indigo. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we have a lot of listeners across India. [SPEAKER_02]: And we also hear a lot from passengers who are flying to and from the nation and across all of this several cities and India has argued to be trying to become, [SPEAKER_02]: an aviation powerhouse, slightly different episode of course to last week where we had a more in-depth discussion on what was happening with our India.

5:33 [SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to be doing that today, but India is headline news at the moment. [SPEAKER_02]: They are suffering what they are referring to as the greatest aviation meltdown in recent or modern aviation history. [SPEAKER_02]: Dan, what is happening? [SPEAKER_00]: So, should we start with the back story here?

5:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's a good place to start. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's start at the very beginning. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, sorry, I'm not going to sing on the podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: But basically, you know from sound of music, that's a very good place to start. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

6:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay, you're singing with so shit. [SPEAKER_02]: I did reckon that's it, I don't want to thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: I was trying not to, you know, go fully belting on the podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, India, actually two years ago announced that they would be updating their pilot rest and duty time rules, not only for Indigo, but for all airlines based in India.

6:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is basically to ensure healthier, happier pilots and therefore safer aviation. [SPEAKER_00]: So actually a very good development, [SPEAKER_00]: should also help pilot mental health, of course. [SPEAKER_00]: So some of these updated rules that were going to be put in place again with two years notice where, for example, a minimum weekly rest, increasing from 36 hours to 48 hours a week.

6:59 [SPEAKER_00]: a nighttime flying cap of 10 hours, maximum two late night landings per week, which I think sounds like a great rule, mandatory quarterly fatigue reporting, another thing that I really like the sound of. [SPEAKER_00]: And finally, leave cannot count as rest. [SPEAKER_00]: So pilots having vacation time is not the same as rest time, which I also think is amazing because as we know, a lot of the time, going on vacation, going on a trip is not just laying on the beach.

7:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually really exhausting. [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes you get back. [SPEAKER_00]: to work or whatever more tired than when you left because you've been so busy wandering around. [SPEAKER_00]: So those are some of the updates that Indigo was facing, but what happened, Alex? [SPEAKER_02]: Well Indigo was not prepared for India's new pilot rest and duty time rules, which has been referred to as the FD TL.

7:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And despite the fact that they had the two years notice where of the new weekly rest rules that, as Dan said, the night flying being camped, [SPEAKER_02]: Late land, late night landings and so on, they had not planned and there's that saying isn't there where you, you know, if you fail to prepare, then prepare to fail and that's what we have seen play out.

8:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Since December 2nd, Indigo has cancelled thousands and thousands of flights. [SPEAKER_02]: There are various figures floating about that there are at least 4,000 cancellations [SPEAKER_02]: We had 1,600 plus flights canceled. [SPEAKER_02]: Just remember that's 1,600 times by around 220.

8:41 [SPEAKER_02]: On board, you're talking about a lot of people caught up in this meltdown. [SPEAKER_02]: On Monday, we've had hundreds of constellations, including at that biggest cities. [SPEAKER_02]: And there are essentially thousands of passengers stranded across India because they should have been [SPEAKER_02]: Let's say perhaps on December 3rd or December 4th and Indigo has not been able to fully fully get to grips with the fact that because they were not ready and therefore legally their schedule, their operation and their roster was no longer valid or in line with these new rules, then it was just, you know, all hell broke loose.

9:26 [SPEAKER_02]: The airline was essentially frozen while they came to grips with how they [SPEAKER_02]: how they move forward with this, and they're still coming to grips with it now. [SPEAKER_02]: We're not talking to you based on them having a solution, but rather they're hopeful that they will be recovered by around this time next week.

9:43 [SPEAKER_02]: This is an incredibly busy travel period, not just because of Christmas, but December always is as your approach the new year. [SPEAKER_02]: And they'll say there are various different reasons as to why people are moving about in any given week, especially in India, where domestic air travel [SPEAKER_02]: And so what we've seen is the meltdown is the total collapse of part of India's air travel system of which Indigo is the biggest player.

10:13 [SPEAKER_02]: in that sense, and so this has been absolutely ever. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure you've seen the videos. [SPEAKER_02]: Have you seen the videos of the people screaming and taking it out on the staff? [SPEAKER_02]: Did you see the lady? [SPEAKER_00]: He was stood up on the camera. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

10:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was just happy there was like a glass wall or like a lease in the plastic between her and the staff, but [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of those things where management fails to plan who gets punished for it, the frontline staff, who are not paid a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of them in India are very young, they don't have much experience dealing with this kind of stuff and they don't deserve any of the [SPEAKER_00]: frankly harassment that they're receiving when it should all be directed to management because the the huge question here is how on earth with so much notice did this airline still fail to plan was it you know a matter where they didn't actually expect it to go into effect is that's what is that what's buying this what do we think we we don't know and that's that that's not unusual

11:20 [SPEAKER_02]: As you say, this was clearly it and you would also think that the wake-up call of what happened with their India and the fact that there are questions over Parliamental health and self-reporting of fatigue and everything that we would discuss. [SPEAKER_02]: You would think that that would have them take this even more seriously.

11:36 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they've been having to buy full page advertisements in the Indian press, the traditional newspapers. [SPEAKER_02]: where it simply says, we're sorry with underneath with Indigo. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they know they have let down the country and also everyone, I mean, if you just happen to book Indigo in this period, what terrible, terrible luck because Indigo is partners with so many different airlines and also it is a great way to be able to reach secondary third cities across India that are [SPEAKER_02]: not as well connected by the legacy carriers.

12:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And yet they've let themselves get to this and it's all still going out now. [SPEAKER_02]: The Federation for Indian pilots described it as the most short-sighted planning that they had seen. [SPEAKER_02]: They said it was cartel-like behavior. [SPEAKER_02]: There's been criticism [SPEAKER_02]: CFO, that pilots are saying that Indigo, this is evidence of them prioritizing costs over rest and that that plan to kind of ignore this didn't work.

12:46 [SPEAKER_02]: The government have had to step in to exempt Indigo from the policy, because it's the policy that they were not prepared for. [SPEAKER_02]: So they've had to exempt them from this, [SPEAKER_02]: for a short period of time to allow them to get back on their feet, to allow the operation to continue, and then ensure a more gradual transition into the new rules.

13:09 [SPEAKER_02]: But it hasn't worked at the moment, and then that's the reality. [SPEAKER_02]: The cancellations have continued. [SPEAKER_02]: There is a pilot shortage, and the staff are unhappy, more hours at an all-time low, and it's just really not a good look for Indigo, to be honest. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's also remember that in the go it was at least and probably still is India's favorite airline people like this airline way way more than they like air India in general It has a much better reputation much more Favorable image so obviously this is an unfortunate development for them, but [SPEAKER_00]: If they were covering, you know, things like this happen in the U.S. all the time, for example.

13:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So airlines were covering there, and in India, I'm sure, then to go, we'll recover. [SPEAKER_02]: Well aviation is incredibly, incredibly resilient, and people have short memories. [SPEAKER_02]: Some of the, you know, crazy things that happen this year, and thankfully, aviation just very quickly bounces back it is such a well-oiled system with so many great people [SPEAKER_02]: these things for granted and we know at the same time also have fragile it all is because, you know, just one IT failure and look what happens and the reach is so far.

14:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Look at the power station failure, fire and near to Heathrow. [SPEAKER_02]: and how that impacted, you know, air travel in South America because of it and because of the components of Heathrow as a hub. [SPEAKER_02]: So that's that's the thing. [SPEAKER_02]: We're such a small world navigation.

14:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Everything is so globalized that although this is primarily an Indian story of a Indian predominantly domestic carrier, again, [SPEAKER_02]: there will be passengers who were never interested in flying the zealine that are caught up in the chaos of all this and also all the thousands of people at airports around the world because they were supposed to be on indigo flights and that then quickly becomes that airport problem and then there's the complaints are [SPEAKER_02]: and we're not given water, they were not provided food and it's like, oh, just look, that's very, very messy, very, very quickly.

15:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: And let's remember by the way, if you are or worse scheduled to play in the go out of Europe, EU261 compensation should apply in this case because the airline is not facing an extraordinary circumstance. [SPEAKER_00]: They definitely knew this was coming and that should be a bit of a wake-up call for them.

15:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So you should be able to get 600 euros. [SPEAKER_00]: in compensation if you were impacted, and you're flagred originates in the EU or the UK. [SPEAKER_02]: And I know I've told this story before, but it is sometimes worth going the extramar when the airline says no, whether it's to the equivalent of a small claims court, like they have in the UK, or to larger courts, because, and I won't tell the full story, because it's in a previous episode of somewhere, but of remember the gentleman who got in touch, [SPEAKER_02]: to prove that British Airways had not planned for the winter season with adequate de-icing instruments.

16:13 [SPEAKER_02]: So where BA were trying to blame weather, which exempts them from the compensation, he was quite sure that actually it was that BA had not planned to have not planned well enough for the winter weather, leaving them with only one or two de-icing [SPEAKER_02]: D. Isas for the crazy big freeze that happened in that year, and he pursued and he won.

16:36 [SPEAKER_02]: And so these things are, you know, it's just important to have these things in your back pocket. [SPEAKER_02]: And Dan and I always on hand, if any of you are unsure as to how to never get that, because we like answering those questions, because they help the rest of you as consumers. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

16:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Just a quick story. [SPEAKER_00]: I have a friend who is an extreme budget traveler and he took a trip with some friends to Bosnia a few weeks ago from Sweden. [SPEAKER_00]: He was flying right there and lo and behold, the flight was delayed like four hours. [SPEAKER_00]: So, I told him that him and his five friends, I think, who were on the trip, should it be eligible for 250 euros in compensation and go figure for the entire trip, flights hotels, everything they had spent less than that much per person.

17:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So they should actually get a profit from it, Ryan Air responded, and of course they're saying, this excuse always [SPEAKER_00]: Baffles me and concerns me. [SPEAKER_00]: They blamed it on Swedish air traffic control delaying them. [SPEAKER_00]: So not allowing them to depart on time from their origin in Bosnia.

17:46 [SPEAKER_00]: But of course, no other flights were delayed. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a difficult one to argue, but those cases are just cruel. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but then that's when Ryanair communication usually stops. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because they know to try and avoid all this.

18:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, and that's when you turn to a company like AirHelper, whatever, to at least get, you know, 200 euros is better than no euros, even if you don't get your 250. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, this is unusual, but valid advice, but if you, for example, found yourself on an easy jet flight in a couple of weeks, and it was delayed, let's say, three hours, and [SPEAKER_02]: perhaps it was two hours at the gate and then one hour on board.

18:34 [SPEAKER_02]: If you can remember to record the pilots announcement where the pilot is providing the reason that itself can be perhaps the greatest piece of evidence because what usually happens is let's say for example he's saying oh you know the engineers have been at the aircraft and unfortunately blah blah blah but we're fixing it and we're going to get on our way soon and blah blah blah blah.

18:57 [SPEAKER_02]: What often happens is that [SPEAKER_02]: By the time you fly and then you land and then you put that claim in, you get this automatic response, or not even an automatic response, but an actual response saying anything but technical saying that for example, it does have due to air traffic control restrictions or due to, you know, circumstances beyond our control, there would be anything to get out of it.

19:17 [SPEAKER_02]: And yet, if you can then make sure that you have the evidence to be able to go back and say, [SPEAKER_02]: Well, actually, this is what the pilot announced. [SPEAKER_02]: Then I know several that have won in that scenario as well and they quickly give in. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's just about making sure that you [SPEAKER_02]: can get what you can get in those moments in terms of their gathering evidence to ensure that you are receiving what you legally and lawfully are owed in these events of big today.

19:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Nice. [SPEAKER_00]: So another story, this is some positive news, finally, actually, we have two pieces of positive news this week, probably more, but [SPEAKER_00]: We want to focus first of all on Korean air, our friends over and soul who have announced that they will offer free starlink soon, fleet wide, making them the first major air Asian airline to announce this, and it's awesome considering that Korean air previously did not even have in flight Wi-Fi on a lot of their aircraft.

20:18 [SPEAKER_00]: They just had magazines. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, blessed. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, they had good on our team, but it's actually wild to go from no way to start a link. [SPEAKER_00]: Which, of course, is free for all passengers because it has to be free for all passengers. [SPEAKER_02]: and elaborate on why it has to be free for a person is that's because it's actually it's the requirement from SpaceX.

20:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So, exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: This is good. [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, I just want to say that I think we were right early, very early on to call this. [SPEAKER_02]: I think Starlink is the greatest disruptor and development in air travel for the last decade. [SPEAKER_02]: I really do not think there has been anything as significant in Starlink changing the way of [SPEAKER_02]: For those that haven't experienced it, you might be thinking he's just talking about Wi-Fi.

21:10 [SPEAKER_02]: We've had Wi-Fi, but it really is so much more than that because not only is it lightning fast, not only is it absolutely reliable and no buffering and [SPEAKER_02]: but it's also everything that it presents. [SPEAKER_02]: Let's think beyond the passenger experience for passengers, it's great.

21:25 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, your ring door bell goes off, you can answer it. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll just leave the parcel on the side, please. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're at 41,000 feet. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you want to stay in touch with the loved ones. [SPEAKER_02]: No, all the obvious reasons I don't need to go into the list as to what that provides you as a passenger.

21:39 [SPEAKER_02]: But even for an airline, [SPEAKER_02]: the abilities to change the seat back in flight entertainment experience. [SPEAKER_02]: By having starling onboard, the world is your oyster. [SPEAKER_02]: I think we are going to see many announcements ahead of streaming platforms. [SPEAKER_02]: and the big guys who got us what their names are now because they were buying each other.

21:58 [SPEAKER_02]: So whether that be Parma or Netflix or Warner Brothers or whoever, okay. [SPEAKER_02]: They are the opportunity now to integrate all of that, for example, to see back is there because of styling. [SPEAKER_02]: Your opportunity to have a more seamless experience of interactions with the crew, perhaps they are taking your meal order and they're using the little iPads as many airlines use.

22:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Those iPads typically would have a SIM card in the iPad, and it's using cell signal while on the ground to be able to, or using rubbish Wi-Fi on board, to be able to note down that Dan got, Dan in one A wants to have, [SPEAKER_02]: uh, the vegan meal from the menu. [SPEAKER_02]: So, he's selecting that.

22:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, the problem is for, for Dan and also for the crew, is that the passenger in one kilo, let's say Oscar, for example, has beaten Dan to it and taken that last vegan meal, but on the traditional system without styling, using the SIM card or the bad Wi-Fi, there's like a 45 second or one minute delay before it shows up.

23:03 [SPEAKER_02]: on the iPad for the crew that oh actually we don't have that anymore it's already been allocated. [SPEAKER_02]: So what I'm saying is styling serves as this platform as this enabler across the passenger experience for crew pilots for being able to communicate on the ground. [SPEAKER_02]: for being able to communicate during medical emergencies on board, during an on board birth, during, you know, they can now have systems in place where they are face timing or the equivalent face time.

23:32 [SPEAKER_02]: The medical teams on the ground to ensure that something like delivering a baby on board which crew are qualified to do is smooth and safe and the, [SPEAKER_02]: ground assistance is going to be there with the adequate medication for example. [SPEAKER_02]: It's all just so holistic and I really am pleased to see Korean air become the first major Asian courage and have that on our prediction list to commit to fleet wide styling.

24:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I would say that you know, [SPEAKER_02]: single-parallel lines, cafe, Japan. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's good. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 100%. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's especially valuable for an airline like Korean where their flights, all their flights to Europe, all their flights to US, and also to Australia, are very, very long.

24:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Because Russian airspace is closed, their flights to Europe take up to 15 hours. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there are an airline where we truly need this, and I think it's really great. [SPEAKER_00]: And as you said, Singapore, Calthay, Japanese Airlines, they all operate similarly lengthy flights.

24:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So it will be really exciting to see that be introduced on them. [SPEAKER_00]: Soon, hopefully, we just need a lot of stricter rules and restrictions regarding consuming entertainment, talking on FaceTime, and stuff without headphones. [SPEAKER_02]: The only thing that I feel will be difficult for Carina as well is that at the moment, Starlink doesn't work over China.

25:00 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's not, that's the Chinese authority rule. [SPEAKER_02]: I hope that we get that and I know that SpaceX are working on [SPEAKER_02]: on overcoming that challenge, but Starlink doesn't work there, so that's kind of like a big portion of the flight without it until they address those concerns, until they come to a deal basically with China.

25:20 [SPEAKER_00]: True. [SPEAKER_00]: Good point. [SPEAKER_00]: Moving over to Europe, another piece of exciting news that is incredibly long overdue, [SPEAKER_00]: the truth tellers of truth tellers named the Siraport the best Siraport in Europe for 2025. [SPEAKER_00]: This airport notes. [SPEAKER_02]: I like that when you said that when you said the best airport in Europe you went up with a question.

25:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because you know that we are asking you the listeners to be the best judge. [SPEAKER_00]: of such please continue exactly some might say that that rating alone is enough to discredit an organization but in any case this airport travel to goal is infamous for its complicated gate system and specifically they have terminal one two three terminal one and two or no sorry terminal one and three are fine it's not too complicated there [SPEAKER_00]: It's terminal two where things get a little crazy because we have letters ranging from 2A to 2G 2G is, you know, we're hop, operate to the Gothenburg, so I'm familiar with that little garage of a drum roll.

26:33 [SPEAKER_02]: That's why I'm absolutely unfamiliar with it. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but within specifically, I mean, this would be complicated enough if it wasn't for the fact that within terminal to E, which is where Air France operates all their flights that are not too galluth and bird. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

26:50 [SPEAKER_00]: That, um, concourse, I guess, has three different sub-councourses called, [SPEAKER_00]: Is it K-L-M, which always cracks me up? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Because you look at the sizes. [SPEAKER_00]: Two-E-K-L-M, and you're like, It's K-L-M, or... [SPEAKER_02]: It's awful. [SPEAKER_02]: It's awful.

27:07 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so confusing. [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, I go to Paris so much. [SPEAKER_02]: I can't tell you how much I stare at the bookings. [SPEAKER_02]: See, like, two-B-D, or two-B slash two-D, but my flight is two-C. [SPEAKER_00]: It's way too complicated for absolutely no reason. [SPEAKER_00]: So what are they changing?

27:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they are abolishing, phasing out the very confusing 2A 2B 2C 2D 2E2, all of that, and which it still hasn't stuck to. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they, they, for example, on a British airways, [SPEAKER_02]: has moved, you've never been to that awful little basement area, have you? [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so.

27:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, whether B.A. [SPEAKER_02]: checking is at Charles de Gaulle. [SPEAKER_02]: Listeners who have flown B.A. [SPEAKER_02]: from Charles de Gaulle know what I'm speaking about. [SPEAKER_02]: If you ever needed greater evidence of Brexit and the relationship France has with the UK, just fly Brits Showers from Charles de Gaulle.

28:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Goodness, that is an unusual little arrangement there in the basement, but, um, and the staff are absolutely horrible. [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, and... [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I stand by that because there are so many documented incidents of where the staff there are just absolutely irrational and reasonable and clearly hate the fact that they somehow operating the desk of the UK for like carrier in this basement of the term.

28:30 [SPEAKER_02]: They don't even know what term they're in and another to the passengers because who knows there's two B, H, K, 5 L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L, L [SPEAKER_02]: Chars to go is phasing out this confusing model.

28:41 [SPEAKER_02]: They are moving to what they are calling a clean system, which will involve numbers only and will allow for better planning. [SPEAKER_02]: So basically we're going to have terminal one, terminal two, terminal three, terminal four, [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna buy terminal six. [SPEAKER_02]: What does it go up to?

28:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Is it 7? [SPEAKER_00]: And that's to go up to that work one. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think just for good measure? [SPEAKER_02]: They get to do like if I get that they want to stick to numbers. [SPEAKER_02]: So my purpose is to choose to go, is that they do terminal like 7.1.

29:12 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the god of that. [SPEAKER_03]: That's the god of that. [SPEAKER_02]: Terminal zero is not bad. [SPEAKER_00]: I do. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but so out with this whole, you know, terminal E, which has entrance K, L, and M, not to be confused with K, L, M. You won't find them at terminal E, makes sense, right?

29:31 [SPEAKER_02]: You're with me, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Instead it's going to be as they're terminal 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, [SPEAKER_02]: That's the end. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the end. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and therefore, we do away with these subletters. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm sure the transition is going to be messy.

29:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm sure that documents are going to be printed, for example, sitting in the emails of passengers that are pre-the change. [SPEAKER_02]: And also, I'm sure taxi drivers and hotels show first. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not going to be fully aligned with this. [SPEAKER_02]: So anyone travelling to Paris then just keep this in mind, but this is actually not for a while until 2027, so it won't happen and also He's us discussing at the end of 25.

30:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I know and what should not even happen by then and let's also mention that I am quite doubtful that this will happen overnight, so surely there's gonna be a few days where there's mixed science [SPEAKER_00]: And then everyone is confused and it's completely chaos meaning we absolutely want to avoid this airport Not I mean just in general, but especially during those dates in my opinion Yeah, no, you're right.

30:41 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll keep an eye on it. [SPEAKER_02]: We've got time, but you know Charles to go I've also noticed something this is this is something that I'm always aware of when and This does depend on the country and I think we need to see what the consistency is here [SPEAKER_02]: definitely the listeners have noticed this or thought this at one point.

30:59 [SPEAKER_02]: But Charles to go is an airport. [SPEAKER_02]: where the signage suggests that if something is ahead of you to continue walking straight, the arrow points down. [SPEAKER_02]: It is insane. [SPEAKER_02]: If it's behind you, it points up, not to be confused with upstairs on another level.

31:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And I can always think, I have to make a note, is this a [SPEAKER_02]: where now I can't remember which way is it the arrow points up or down for you to continue walking in a straight line okay if we were designing an apple and the idea is you have to walk straight what how would you have the arrow like the rest of the world facing upwards which means forwards [SPEAKER_02]: So then how do you get over the complication of showing that something is on the level above?

31:56 [SPEAKER_02]: I think you just write, for example, level two. [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, then you have like a, there's that global symbol with a sideways person sort of indicating going up an escalator. [SPEAKER_01]: Going up, yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Sideways an arrow going diagonally. [SPEAKER_02]: Diagonally.

32:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's showing the transition up indicators. [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm sure that must be how they do it in all of France. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just tricky because at an international airport, you're serving a lot of people who are not from France.

32:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So then what do you choose? [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, you know, the French go with the French system, but I have been confused quite a few times by that. [SPEAKER_00]: And I keep forgetting, and then I have to remind myself, and I'm there right, that means forwards, no backwards. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

32:45 [SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's, um, [SPEAKER_02]: It's a France thing, so I'm just saying in France an arrow pointing down on road signs usually means straight ahead. [SPEAKER_02]: That's on road signs and this is this continues into into the apple. [SPEAKER_02]: The thing is though, listeners have sent me and there is evidence of this.

33:05 [SPEAKER_02]: In the same messy apple, Charles de Gaulle, there are signs to go down where something is on the level down and of course the arrow points down. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So that's, yeah, that's messy. [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think, if you, if you were the boss of a global, let's say like a global hub, not a small airport, but a global hub, okay?

33:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have the escalators, the travelers, the flat ones, okay? [SPEAKER_02]: Do you have them moving forward in this, in the direction of, hmm, because that depends what size you're coming from? [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, right, basically what I'm trying to say [SPEAKER_02]: you're on the left side, you're on the right side.

33:47 [SPEAKER_02]: If you're in a hallway and you can travel to a moving, you know, one forward and one back to you copy the side of the road that the country drives in. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh no, you know this is that. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you've noticed this, but even in the UK for example, people know inherently [SPEAKER_00]: that you should be on the right side because, for example, on an escalator in the UK, people will walk on the right side and stand still on the left side, right?

34:15 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I forget how, but we notice that people always use the right side for things even in countries where you drive on the other side of the road.

34:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think the travelator should always the one going for it. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, not that it really matters, but it's because you think the one going forward, the one going forward for you in that direction. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the direction you're heading should be on the right side.

34:51 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's not as important as just good side edge. [SPEAKER_00]: No, yeah, by the way, and let's just mention a working travelator is the most important thing because most of the time Yes, see from Right, yeah, Johnny Yeah, I'm still there nothing I'm a damn yeah nothing works there. [SPEAKER_02]: You I love that you did that real that went viral of you saying like you know you're back from table [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but all those months and nothing works because I mean it was nothing works That was learned it this it's like you're crazy for expecting it to work Yeah, I love we've got to this place where it's you're you how Snobby of you to want the escalators to work was wrong with you.

35:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was literally like a comedy show because we show up to the airport with so much luggage Because we're like dragging a bunch of stuff home to Sweden [SPEAKER_00]: for family and gifts and all this stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: So then we want to take the elevator. [SPEAKER_00]: Nope, all the elevators are closed.

35:48 [SPEAKER_00]: There's like tape in front of them. [SPEAKER_00]: So then, finally we'll take the rising travelator. [SPEAKER_00]: So you should be like in an ideal scenario, those things should have magnetic connections to your luggage cart. [SPEAKER_00]: So the cart gets stuck, so you don't have to hold it.

36:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it takes you up to the next floor. [SPEAKER_00]: No, first of all, it doesn't have that type of connection. [SPEAKER_00]: Second of all, it's not even working. [SPEAKER_00]: So we have to push our luggage up on a broken travelator with no working escalator. [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the second floor.

36:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just so crazy. [SPEAKER_02]: But don't go blind about it because you're being elicis, you're being snobby, y'all, why are you expecting things to work, Dan? [SPEAKER_02]: That's so stupid of you. [SPEAKER_02]: It's the struggle that conditioning the people to believe that the struggle is now the norm.

36:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know. [SPEAKER_00]: So let's just focus quickly on what are some, we should have a positive angle on this. [SPEAKER_00]: What are we just talking about this before? [SPEAKER_00]: But let's mention like five airports in Europe that do it well, that do it correctly. [SPEAKER_00]: Zurich.

36:51 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's just 10 to work. [SPEAKER_02]: Things really do. [SPEAKER_02]: The only thing I don't like is that they still have these old way of doing going through security. [SPEAKER_02]: Remember I said, where you will kind of line up after each other. [SPEAKER_02]: There's not, they haven't even the simultaneous, you know, the floor print of the footprints.

37:07 [SPEAKER_02]: See where you can do it at the same time in parallel. [SPEAKER_02]: That hasn't even arrived there yet. [SPEAKER_02]: Let alone the new machines. [SPEAKER_02]: So that's a shame. [SPEAKER_02]: But otherwise Zurich tends to work very [SPEAKER_02]: Germany, I think, oh, no, you said no negative.

37:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so I get it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's take to positive. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I will say I think Scandinavia is really strong here. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but not only Scandinavia, but Helsinki, I would say. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we've said this before. [SPEAKER_00]: Helsinki, don't have my lander.

37:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a bit. [SPEAKER_00]: It can be good, but it can also be really bad. [SPEAKER_00]: For example, they don't have any e-gates in Stockholm yet. [SPEAKER_00]: So every even use citizens have to stand in the same line as everyone else, which is very rare. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, you just remind me of something super important to warn everyone as we approach another busy travel season.

37:56 [SPEAKER_02]: If you are arriving from outside of the EU, do not under any circumstances if you can control it, arrive into Lisbon from outside of the EU, because Lisbon, have you seen the videos? [SPEAKER_02]: This has been pretty consistent throughout the year, but it's even worse at the moment. [SPEAKER_02]: The cues at immigration are hours.

38:20 [SPEAKER_02]: People are there for hours and hours. [SPEAKER_02]: It has been a nightmare, it was a nightmare, all summer, it's been a nightmare coming out of summer. [SPEAKER_02]: There was a brief period in October, November, and that's only because air travel demand weakens in those weeks. [SPEAKER_02]: And just as air travel demand comes back up now, it is not meant loads of you have got in touch with me and sent me these videos, standing in these all four long cues, even crew and pilots who just operated seven eight hour flight so Lisbon are standing in these long cues.

38:50 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a mess. [SPEAKER_02]: You have to be able to do your best to enter Europe via anywhere else. [SPEAKER_02]: And then you can arrive as a domestic European shengan flight. [SPEAKER_02]: So you can arrive as a shengan passenger, meaning you don't clear immigration. [SPEAKER_02]: And you can exit immediately because it's a real, real mess.

39:11 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's only going to get worse. [SPEAKER_02]: It's been like this all year. [SPEAKER_02]: They haven't addressed the issues, the staffing shortages. [SPEAKER_02]: There's been unions at play of course and so on. [SPEAKER_02]: If it's beyond, you know, sorry, if you're able to control it, enter somewhere else and then either connect and you'll be fine.

39:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Good tip. [SPEAKER_00]: We just, we should mention, we need to get to five airports that we like. [SPEAKER_00]: So we've said, Helsinki, we've said, Zurich, I would not say. [SPEAKER_02]: It's not really that we like, it's the ones that we think that, [SPEAKER_02]: do the best. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, those kind of all-for-yeah, they make sure their escalators are working, they make sure things are ticking over and smoothing them right.

39:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: I think Oslo is actually beautiful. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Oslo is pretty good. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's pretty good. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Oslo. [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, yeah, I guess it's just it's busy, but it does work well. [SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to take anything out your bags.

40:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I've, the doors open, the escalators work, you can't have very long walks, but on the whole room works, well, yeah, okay. [SPEAKER_02]: So we can't know, not the right one. [SPEAKER_00]: And should we find out the, I mean, can we include like London City because in some ways, I was just about say London City, I was just about [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think there's only one escalator in the building, so you don't have to get it to work.

40:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, even though it's dingy, it's so efficient, it's so... [SPEAKER_02]: It is efficient. [SPEAKER_02]: The fact you can arrive, so close to your flight departure time, and things tend to work there, and they've got the great DLR, which is arguably the best part of the UK London Underground System.

40:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think London City, is that five? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's five. [SPEAKER_00]: So our list is very good. [SPEAKER_00]: Nice nice nice. [SPEAKER_00]: So let's wrap up here with one more topic, which is that, you know, I find it kind of crazy that we've had this podcast so long that there have now been three catcher airways CEOs in the time that we've hosted on air [SPEAKER_02]: That's not considering there wasn't any change for twenty-seven years under Icarada Bakr is true that now the new appointment I'm sure many of the listeners have seen so the a new CEO of the Qataris group has been named it's Hamad Al-Hater who is the [SPEAKER_02]: It comes from the airport, he was until this appointment, the chief operating officer of Hamad International Airport and Hamad Al-Hataf now becomes the group CEO effective immediately, and so that means that Badger and Mayor, who will discuss kind of quickly what his premiership will be known for, but it seems that he served two years in the position.

42:00 [SPEAKER_02]: which followed 11 years at Hammard Airport. [SPEAKER_02]: So Budda has been with the Cateraways group holding sea level positions there for 13 or most 14 years and most of that at the airport. [SPEAKER_02]: I think for me I would say, [SPEAKER_02]: Badger's greatest achievement, I think that he could look back on, would be the delivery of the orchard and the expansion of Hammard Airport because from, and I always tried to check if this is accurate, but in terms of the global comparisons, I cannot remember another airport that opened ahead of schedule and was actually finished and done and did an in-time [SPEAKER_02]: that's something I'm presented even, even the sharpest of engineering projects like, for example, in the UAE, where they also famous for getting things down very quickly, even they have struggled with their airport expansion that been delayed, they suspended, run out of money and so on, but that, that, that,

42:59 [SPEAKER_02]: or child deliver, I think it is perhaps his single greatest achievement in his time to help the group. [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, the huge question when Akbra Bakker left, since he was, he was Qatar Airways to a lot of people, he was at the helm of that airline for so long, he shaped what it was, he turned it into one of the world's best airlines, a hundred percent.

43:29 [SPEAKER_00]: uh, high hopes and anticipations for what kind of changes we would see. [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess to given a very brief overview of what has changed, I think, you know, for his time at the airline, there's two things that he can be [SPEAKER_00]: incredibly proud of, which is one that he is very well-liked by the staff, by the crew, by people who work there for greatly improving their working conditions and making the crew in general a lot happier at the airlines for what we've heard.

44:01 [SPEAKER_02]: It was a cultural transformation in that sense in terms of working culture. [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, that's definitely something to be proud of. [SPEAKER_00]: And also, of course, Qatar Airways had their most profitable year ever last year, and they were one of the most profitable airlines in the world, which is another huge accomplishment.

44:21 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, one thing that I think a lot of people are looking at now from Hamadahat, there is, can you continue the positives? [SPEAKER_00]: While also bringing a bit of that, [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to say flare, but something that existed during aqua al-Bakur's time that a lot of people feel has dwindled a little bit.

44:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So you'll see people say that there's perhaps a bit more inconsistency, maybe. [SPEAKER_00]: you know as a negative consequence of something much more important that the crew is much happier or that there have been cost cuts somewhere to enable, you know, these record profits. [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll be able to bring the refinement of that Albaqra brought and that attention to detail maybe from the customer, [SPEAKER_00]: Perspective while also keeping the positive changes the batter brought about that's what we're curious about and you know I have high hopes that how mod can Give us that because you know like I if I think back to I would actually say if I think back to 2023 [SPEAKER_00]: Even during Albaqq was final year, I started noticing a few changes from what we would think of in 2018 or 2019, especially before COVID.

45:49 [SPEAKER_00]: When we flying cutter airways, they made us so excited. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's things like that that... [SPEAKER_00]: I hope he can bring back, you know, if he's listening to this, I remember it's the small things like, you know, we always talk about how we folks about on business costs on this channel on this podcast, but I never ever forget and I always mention how in 2018 I had this flight to Bangkok, where for no particular reason I was given six hot towels on a six hour flight, [SPEAKER_02]: That means, like, to me, that's how I played football.

46:26 [SPEAKER_00]: But it leaves such a good impression on you when you feel like, wow, there's really no nothing is spared here. [SPEAKER_00]: And that was so fun. [SPEAKER_00]: So, of course, it's wasteful. [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, I didn't need it. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's what made it so exciting to fly any airline in the golf back in the day when they were throwing money at everything just to be as good as possible.

46:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: We're excited to see that happen. [SPEAKER_02]: is worthy context to remind that unlike in, for example, in the United States, or UK, France, and so on, with Qatar always and Emirates and Etihad. [SPEAKER_02]: with these airlines being the state-owned airlines of the Gulf and there are many state-owned airlines across Asia as well and even across Scandinavia in Dan's region.

47:12 [SPEAKER_02]: But with state-owned airlines like Qatar, these appointments are typically appointments from the government. [SPEAKER_02]: So political appointments whereby the government decide who will assume the role and when. [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's why you do tend to get [SPEAKER_02]: pretty sudden decisions at the rest of the world often can perceive to be either unusual or how did they not know about the next guy, but actually for anyone that is familiar with the Gulf, it's pretty business has usual here in terms of how big appointments across big organisations, state-owned organisations are made.

47:50 [SPEAKER_02]: We absolutely wish Badger Well, [SPEAKER_02]: because he can look back at both his time at Qatar always at the top of it, but also at the airport with decent memories, but also with, as you said, that kind of cultural transformation that led to him being really respected by the staff. [SPEAKER_02]: And also, Hamad Scott, you know, a really exciting new mandate and period ahead in a period of growth with massive aircraft orders coming into this region, not least into Qatar always, with a big order [SPEAKER_02]: not too long ago in May of this year, and all the aircraft that are ahead of the 321 Neo is more through 50s.

48:29 [SPEAKER_02]: It will be the introduction of the single-while long-range. [SPEAKER_02]: There's the triple 7x that will finally make its debut. [SPEAKER_02]: There's a big dreamliner order. [SPEAKER_02]: So he's got a big growth agenda ahead, and that's an exciting task for anyone to, uh, [SPEAKER_02]: to be able to get the head around and then get going with.

48:46 [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, we wish him the best. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: And he's taking over a healthy airline, which is a nice place to start in. [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely. [SPEAKER_00]: And hopefully he can change their safety video ASAP because that's my personal wish. [SPEAKER_02]: Good.

49:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Good. [SPEAKER_02]: Quite loud and quite long, isn't it? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and quite not aligned with the brand. [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know why. [SPEAKER_00]: Shall we move into Q&A? [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do it. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so by the way, I want to start off here by saying thank you so much to everyone who tuned in this year and tagged us in your stories saying we were in your top five YouTube channels Oh my god, I love this It was the like Spotify wrapped but everyone was doing wrapped now and we're the top of so that was so cool [SPEAKER_02]: Love you.

49:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much. [SPEAKER_02]: Keep them coming. [SPEAKER_02]: If we, if we featured in your RAPT on Spotify, we want to see it, we want to be tagged and we send our thanks. [SPEAKER_02]: That's really, really cool. [SPEAKER_02]: Amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, oh, YouTube or whoever. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

49:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So we have two questions here from Jack. [SPEAKER_00]: The first one I feel like we've spoken about, so just briefly, would we rather fly BA out of terminal three or terminal five at Heathrow? [SPEAKER_00]: If it's the first thing, is a one-boat M-road, then I would rather still T-5. [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, I, a hundred percent T3 for, I'm T3, it's not the first one.

50:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Kathy, you know, you're right. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, hello, if you're leaving from like five B or five C, it's not so fun anymore, which more and more interior B and flights are doing so. [SPEAKER_02]: You're right. [SPEAKER_02]: And also the, the, for example, you remember that flight, where I almost missed it because I thought to lose.

50:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definitely. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to five. [SPEAKER_02]: When I went to T3, the novelty of having beautiful dim sum that five clock in the morning. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: before a show who be a flight to Toulouse, that felt great. [SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you can hop down to Quantas and have some other nice dishes.

50:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just so nice. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I welcome to Quantas. [SPEAKER_00]: And if you go to the American Airlines lounge, oh, what are you doing? [SPEAKER_00]: Jack also asks, I guess this is more for me. [SPEAKER_00]: What are our thoughts on Kathy Pacific? [SPEAKER_00]: Strictly enforcing their new policies, regarding frequent fire status and approval, basically, [SPEAKER_00]: you before you could give one status to check in so you could get into a lounge and then change the card you're giving before your flight so you earn points elsewhere if you want to transition your program or something like that.

51:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So Kathy Pacific has basically stopped allowing that. [SPEAKER_00]: So now if you want to use your status to get into the lounge you need to also credit your flight to that program. [SPEAKER_00]: This is a niche issue only for extreme frequent flyers, but I will say that this is an increasingly common development, unfortunately, and I think it's quite unfortunate to see them restricting how you can use your status, where you can credit points, and ultimately it seems damaging to me, because when an airline grants you access to a lounge, [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say you use your BA status to get into a Kathy Pacific launch, even if you're flying on Kathy Pacific, British Airways is paying Kathy Pacific for that lounge use.

51:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're deriving revenue from you doing that, right? [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make, it's just a weird one. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I thought it's weird. [SPEAKER_02]: It felt very unfriendly. [SPEAKER_02]: It felt very unfriendly. [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't think it just... [SPEAKER_02]: didn't make much sense either.

52:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Next up, we have a question here from Mike. [SPEAKER_00]: He says he's a Belgian American travel hacker from London doing 40 plus flights a year in business and first class. [SPEAKER_00]: Awesome. [SPEAKER_00]: My question is, why is it legal and considered acceptable that airlines are overselling more seats than they have capacity for?

52:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Even if they calculate that they typically have a few no shows, the experience for passengers who have bought a ticket and are bumped out of the plane is truly horrendous, especially at critical times like family holidays. [SPEAKER_00]: How can this be legal and acceptable and why aren't regulators banning this awful practice?

52:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Great question actually. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, this is, you know, overselling is allowed. [SPEAKER_02]: This is the thing. [SPEAKER_02]: It's legal by almost all aviation regulators. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's who this would stand with. [SPEAKER_02]: The buck would stop with them. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's legal in the US with the US Department of Transport.

53:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, with the EU around Asia across the continent of Africa. [SPEAKER_02]: The airline has to abide by some clear rules, though. [SPEAKER_02]: But as you say, they're really uncomfortable when they, you know, when they bored and they say right. [SPEAKER_02]: We need volunteers, or we're going to choose at random.

53:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, something that's like the hunk of games in those scenarios. [SPEAKER_02]: The thing is, is that they oversell, because airlines work on the Titus margins have only if they didn't, they wouldn't be profitable. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the reality. [SPEAKER_02]: And if they were not profitable, they wouldn't be able to invest or expand or serve you as the passenger better.

53:35 [SPEAKER_02]: They know that a certain percentage of passengers won't show up. [SPEAKER_02]: Who, what's the name of the gentleman who asked the question? [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I, I laughed, I'm Mike. [SPEAKER_02]: Mike, Mike, you know this anyway, as you mentioned in your question that you know that it's because there are no shows and that will be due to misconnections, people not waking up, get cancellations, whatever, but they have to...

53:55 [SPEAKER_02]: They have to move ahead with this equation in order to avoid flying with empty seats. [SPEAKER_02]: And it does keep fairs lower. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the only thing I can say that there should be the takeaway that, you know, hopefully over the course of your flying life, you may never.

54:12 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, statistically, you may never be affected by over-booking or overselling. [SPEAKER_02]: And if you have been more than once or twice, perhaps it's because of the search and route that you fly, maybe a smaller aircraft, I'm thinking, for example, when you're flying an embryo in the U.S., you know, we see those announcements where they're looking for volunteers and all that.

54:29 [SPEAKER_02]: But you can get through flying quite a bit around the world in life without ever [SPEAKER_02]: The takeaway is that this helps keep fair. [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, this helps keep fairs lower. [SPEAKER_02]: And if we had regulators and aviation authorities stepping in to ban the act or the art of overselling, then those fairs are going to go up and we're all going to suffer.

54:59 [SPEAKER_02]: So, unfortunately, and does kind of have to stay on is. [SPEAKER_00]: And to look at it from a positive perspective, first of all, this is one area, the US is really good with passenger making things right if something small goes wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, let's say your Wi-Fi isn't working, your recline doesn't work, they're very good at compensating, and they're also extremely good at compensating in situations where you're on an overbooked flight.

55:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And in the US, unlike most of the rest of the world, [SPEAKER_00]: they do this bidding system, which a lot of listeners will of course know, where is anyone willing to accept $500 for this to skip this fight and take the next one? [SPEAKER_00]: Nope, okay, what about a thousand dollars?

55:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Nope, okay, what about, you know, and they can get up to $10,000 or higher sometimes. [SPEAKER_00]: which can be a great payday for someone who's not in a huge hurry, and a lot of the time they even ask you a check-in on the big check-in machines, would you be willing to take a later flight if you're overbooked?

55:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's also remember that a lot of the time, I mean, the more frequent occurrence for me, which has happened like twice in my life, and [SPEAKER_00]: Compared to I've never been bummed from a flight because it's been over both, but I have been upgraded twice because economy has been overbooked So there you have a positive effect of the overbooking So you know, it doesn't always have to be a bad thing and finally of course if your flight has overbooked and you're flying a European airline or you're flying out of the EU or UK You will get compensation by law for reaching your destination to lead so [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

56:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Very very true. [SPEAKER_02]: With that we will wrap with a little note to say that the next episode in your feeds will be the final episode of the year from from our side and we have a little more of a lighthearted one. [SPEAKER_02]: We have a reflect, we'll look ahead, perhaps we'll play a couple of [SPEAKER_02]: little games or something.

56:54 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see how it goes. [SPEAKER_02]: We'll have a fun one to end the year as we approach Christmas and the new year. [SPEAKER_02]: So that will be the next episode in your feeds and so we'll catch you them. [SPEAKER_00]: We will see you next Wednesday as always on air. [SPEAKER_02]: Bye bye.

57:11 [SPEAKER_00]: See you later.