Riyadh Air Starts Selling Tickets for First Flights!

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Hold on, wait, I just need to quickly buck this one second. [SPEAKER_00]: What is this the flat I think it is? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, baby. [SPEAKER_00]: It is. [SPEAKER_01]: Are you serious? [SPEAKER_01]: It's tight. [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me now. [SPEAKER_01]: What is this? [SPEAKER_00]: What is the brand?

0:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Is this... [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, are you telling me now? [SPEAKER_01]: Are you telling me later in the episode? [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about it later. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we're talking about it all nearer, but we'll talk about it later. [SPEAKER_01]: Come on, so I'm Dan, and I'm Alex, and welcome back to on it's Wednesday.

0:40 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a new week, and we're delighted to be with you. [SPEAKER_01]: How's it going, Dan? [SPEAKER_00]: It is great. [SPEAKER_00]: My credit card isn't so happy now that I just click pay, but I'm pretty happy. [SPEAKER_00]: I think so. [SPEAKER_00]: How are you? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, all good.

0:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Then let me ask you a question. [SPEAKER_01]: That's all good. [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, further listeners, guys, really pleased to receive some of your hilarious and also great idea feedback into what we asked last week where we were discussing [SPEAKER_01]: what a refreshed European airline group, the France KLM rebrand could be and remember we were saying how actually it needs to be something that perhaps champions Europe a bit more, that is a bit more of a household name maybe a little more obvious as to are you think of this and you think of Europe and we had some good ones and I know you've got them as well.

1:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll read [SPEAKER_01]: one, so Magnus likes pan-European. [SPEAKER_01]: I feel it's, you know, it's pan-am, but European. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe a bit dated, I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't, I wasn't keen on pan-European, but I get the pan-am link. [SPEAKER_01]: Someone commented that they're currently at the bus gate at Heathrow for God's sake, while they were listening to the episode.

1:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Zoe says the cheese group, because they are great cheese producing nations, I lived in the Netherlands for seven years, and [SPEAKER_01]: So he says, I lived in the Netherlands for seven years and I have a French boyfriend. [SPEAKER_01]: The cheese boards I have, in hell, are enough to feed every passenger of any airline for a whole year.

2:16 [SPEAKER_01]: PS don't make me choose between who I love more, my cheese and my partner. [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're gonna leave that to you, Zoe. [SPEAKER_01]: We wouldn't want to interfere in something so complex. [SPEAKER_01]: But we're grateful for you leaving a comment with an idea, what do you have down?

2:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So a friend I was talking to who listened to the pod. [SPEAKER_00]: She said Pen, what did she say? [SPEAKER_00]: She also said Pen. [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people say Pen, like Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, Pen, [SPEAKER_00]: your rope is just it comes it's so weird like I don't know um but as in yeah you're a man your rope uh yeah area your rope that's right um on youtube we've got some i i do find this one very funny although it's obviously unserious KLM AF

3:10 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, yeah, that's clever. [SPEAKER_01]: I can't believe I've never considered that AFK LMS as the group is known. [SPEAKER_01]: Their France KLM is actually just KLM as fuck. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thanks. [SPEAKER_00]: Then we have Oso and Elsa's pen, pen, your Europa on YouTube, pan European era, Euro sky.

3:39 [SPEAKER_00]: We have the European group of vaguely linked airlines. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: What else do we have? [SPEAKER_00]: Your Euro's group. [SPEAKER_00]: for I mean it's ancient hearts back to ancient Greek okay a grand there was a lot of that group the kind of championed the ancient Greek [SPEAKER_01]: sentiment because I think we were having a very Mediterranean conversation.

4:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Brianna commented on Spotify the serulean group. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: She put the blue water of the Mediterranean, the blue skies of Europe, the serulean groups, which is quite quite out there, quite Mediterraneany. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, this really tells us that Erfren's Calam actually needs to redirect their efforts and focus on buying a gin so that they can be all of these different things that we're saying.

4:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, a gin widely considered the national outline of Greece and part of the Aegean set up is Olympic and the former Olympic that they hold on to and they operate to the islands, it's like the regional arm of [SPEAKER_01]: agent, which do itself operates regional flights, but it's kind of like a reminds me of an Iberia and Nostrum kind of set up.

4:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Legend is one of the few sitting ducks of Europe in that it is standalone and hasn't yet jumped into bed or have been absorbed into another [SPEAKER_01]: airline group. [SPEAKER_01]: And I wonder how long that's going to be true for because we've spoken before about how they could be more ambitious.

5:21 [SPEAKER_01]: That's for sure. [SPEAKER_01]: I flown a G in quite a lot over the last few months. [SPEAKER_01]: And you feel it's a very well-run airline with its own product that isn't anything too similar to the consistency you get on the left-hands of the group, where close your eyes and you could be on any of them.

5:41 [SPEAKER_01]: It's all at the same experience. [SPEAKER_01]: And I would think that's absolutely worth protecting in the same way that swiss used to say they want to protect their swissness. [SPEAKER_01]: I want to protect the greakness of Aegean, if Liff Danza were to circle for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, forget about hot meals on entry or P in flights.

6:00 [SPEAKER_00]: If any other airline group comes in, that is, that's going to go in economy. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, some great names there, Air France KLM, if you're listening, you're welcome on behalf of the on-air community, you know, at least if you choose one of these names, let's like give us a hint that this is where I came from.

6:22 [SPEAKER_00]: That would be great because I think, [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like something we mentioned last week also just led to some breaking news as we're recording here on Tuesday afternoon. [SPEAKER_00]: There has been an announcement that is well timed for this week's podcast episode. [SPEAKER_01]: This is to do with the booking that you've just made, right?

6:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So last week we discussed. [SPEAKER_01]: what was going on with rear-de-air being pretty quiet over the last few months, and also digitally native airliners per their slogans and the brand quips and whatnot, actually being open for sale on the current aircraft, which is least from Oman, via travel agents only in via OTAs and that being a really traditional way to sell.

7:10 [SPEAKER_01]: But then we also just [SPEAKER_01]: We did question how could that be going forward for something that was supposed to be very edgy, very modern, they go on about tech, a lot, and so on. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we don't want to take too much credit. [SPEAKER_01]: No, we liked something that there isn't on air effect, and we do spot these patterns of the time.

7:36 [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, that on the show for a second, we have an update, pretty significant, which is that in the [SPEAKER_01]: and we have spoken to friends at the airline and at our friends at Riede. [SPEAKER_01]: Riede, I've confirmed it in the last 30 minutes that their flights are now open for sale with the inaugural flight set for the beginning of July.

7:53 [SPEAKER_01]: It's from Riede to you guessed it, London, the premium golf carrier market and it's on their own aircraft because Riede will finally and it's been a very long journey here. [SPEAKER_01]: take delivery of their first aircraft their own aircraft directly from Boeing over the coming weeks they think it's going to be around a couple weeks or so and further aircraft will follow that so the pace will really pick up and they anticipate actually the by the time they launch the beginning of July which is really in the grand scheme of things just just a matter of weeks away.

8:26 [SPEAKER_01]: they will have multiple aircraft in the fleet already putting them in a good position to not just fly to London but also to open up flights for sale to other destinations including Cheddar to buy Manchester Madrid and elsewhere. [SPEAKER_01]: What are you saying? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I now have my ticket in my email in box.

8:44 [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny to see. [SPEAKER_00]: So was the rear-deft flight? [SPEAKER_00]: So you also think it is. [SPEAKER_00]: I hear I have my note of Kishan from rear air which is just so funny to see. [SPEAKER_00]: The website I'm booking flow, we're all great. [SPEAKER_00]: I noticed they don't take American Express, which I assume they're going to take that soon enough, but they took other cards transaction was also initially flagged by my credit card, which I understand because no one outside of Saudi Arabia has ever made a purchase with rear air until today.

9:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So I understand why they made their flag for a big transaction with an unknown company. [SPEAKER_00]: I told them. [SPEAKER_01]: So you had to actually speak with the bank, and then you could just call them. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, emails that said, was this you? [SPEAKER_00]: Click yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Was this you, okay?

9:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I clicked yes, and now I have it. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is exciting. [SPEAKER_01]: Even the bank has surprised, but the bank will get used to it because it's a nice timing for them. [SPEAKER_01]: And well, it's been a long journey here. [SPEAKER_01]: it's funny because you know how we've always said that the industry is great at talking to itself or I always say that the industry is great at talking to itself but so terrible at communicating outside and actually cutting through to the public.

9:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I always take these postchecks via family members right we always do this don't we well we we hear the reality of what people actually think from people that are well-traveled but not in our sphere in our world of aviation okay two things [SPEAKER_01]: on arrival to Heathrow the other day.

10:14 [SPEAKER_01]: She's he's re-adher. [SPEAKER_01]: like, we had a baggage support, you know, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she said to me, what? [SPEAKER_01]: I said what? [SPEAKER_01]: She was like, but I thought they haven't launched. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, well, not properly for that. [SPEAKER_01]: She said, but I thought you said that they don't have it.

10:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, they don't, but she was like, but you also said, like, she said, for example, I said, okay, one question over time. [SPEAKER_01]: She said to me, can I go online right now but go, we had a flight, I said, it's complicated. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, even that I couldn't answer. [SPEAKER_01]: And that is a version.

10:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It's incredibly complex. [SPEAKER_01]: that a slightly different subject, but it's hilarious. [SPEAKER_01]: Recently, she was asking me about an aircraft that was landing in Lannick and Cyprus, and she said, where has that landed for its Emirates, right? [SPEAKER_01]: I said, yeah, she said, okay, I didn't really realise there's connectivity from Dubai to Cyprus.

11:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I said, yeah, she said, where has that aircraft landed from? [SPEAKER_01]: I said to her, [SPEAKER_01]: New York. [SPEAKER_01]: She looked at me. [SPEAKER_01]: She's in Athens, you mean? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, because it flows from Malta. [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, sorry. [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, sorry.

11:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Athens. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm confusing the tags. [SPEAKER_01]: Athens gets New York and Malta gets Veronica. [SPEAKER_01]: So she thought it was Athens. [SPEAKER_01]: So she said to me, for the Athens one, she said, where's that aircraft landed? [SPEAKER_01]: I said, New York, come from Sydney York.

11:29 [SPEAKER_01]: She said to me, New York. [SPEAKER_01]: I said yes. [SPEAKER_01]: She said, Emirates, New York, Athens. [SPEAKER_01]: I said, she goes to me. [SPEAKER_01]: now I'm confused. [SPEAKER_01]: I can't explain it. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the, yeah, it's funny because there's so much that it's completely normal to us in the industry, tags, fifth-free terms and so on.

11:51 [SPEAKER_01]: It's had you even the kids try to let this cut through to the, to the public. [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, wow, so your book, let's see your book, so you've got your ticket. [SPEAKER_01]: Have you allocated your seat on the aircraft? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I have. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm printing my ticket as we speak now I'm kidding.

12:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't print tickets. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, how exciting. [SPEAKER_00]: Congratulations. [SPEAKER_00]: Great. [SPEAKER_01]: Party in the UK collapse, hearing that. [SPEAKER_00]: yeah forget that I'm flying but printing my ticket is the bad point. [SPEAKER_00]: Congrats congrats to Readair.

12:23 [SPEAKER_00]: This is exciting. [SPEAKER_00]: We all realize that the circumstances are a bit unfortunate because I imagined that they would have wanted to make the launch of ticket sales a much bigger deal than they [SPEAKER_00]: But here we are, and I think, you know, as people start experiencing, this is actually much better to launch in a quiet, low-key manner and build up from there.

12:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of having this massive, hugely hyped launch where there's so much pressure on you, because you know that everything doesn't go super smoothly in the beginning, it never does. [SPEAKER_01]: And also, you know, I do, we feel for all the carriers, the Gulf Carris, specifically called up in, and what is the situation that might feel like it has sort of stopped, but hasn't ended in any definitive way at all, and look no further than on Monday night, Donald Trump, current president of the United States tweeted, quote, I have been asked, by the Amir of Qatar, [SPEAKER_01]: the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia and the President of the UAE to hold off on a planned military attack, Ovaran, which was scheduled for tomorrow today Tuesday, in that serious negotiations are now taking place, and that, in their opinion, as great leaders and allies are deal will be made, which is one that will be acceptable to the U.S., and other countries in the Middle East, and will importantly include no nuclear blah blah blah, and so he says

13:57 [SPEAKER_01]: are instructed them to not attack, but to be ready at a moment's notice in the event an acceptable deal is not reached. [SPEAKER_01]: to prepare to go forward with a full large-scale assault on Iran, of which nobody wants because of the instability. [SPEAKER_00]: No one wants. [SPEAKER_01]: What I'm saying is, that's on Monday night.

14:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Now these airlines, the three leaders that Trump says he had spoken to and they had asked him to not go ahead with a fresh attack, a fresh bombardment of Iran, knowing that Iran [SPEAKER_01]: These leaders that he mentioned, Qatar, Saudi, UAE, these are, of course, home to these golf carers, these elements that are trying to rebuild in a measured specific, but also a firm way that they can stick to.

14:53 [SPEAKER_01]: It's nothing too ambitious, but they are building back capacity and they are building and restoring their flat operation and something like the threat [SPEAKER_01]: today is incredibly destabilizing because again, it just further highlights how in limbo the Middle East region and the Middle East Aviation sector continues to be and Paul Riede is trying to start up for the first time ever.

15:22 [SPEAKER_01]: The golf carriers are trying that best to uphold their restoration and their rebuild and all of this kind of is just this shadow that hasn't lifted yet because there has been no definitive end. [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be an interesting summer, basically. [SPEAKER_00]: It sure is, which brings us to some news, which I find this interesting and I see both sides, but basically, as obviously when the conflict started, all airlines introduced flexible booking policies because their flights were being canceled and their schedules are unpredictable, et cetera.

15:55 [SPEAKER_00]: but as time has gone on we've seen airlines scale those back their flexible policies so etihad removed theirs unless your flight is canceled you cannot re-book which even in normal times if your flight was canceled you would obviously be given the opportunity to re-book out of the major airlines now cuts our airways [SPEAKER_00]: yesterday as well right and now said they're removing flexibility for new tickets which I see both sides there and I'm sure you do too where of course as an airline you need predictability and you need to know that people are not just going to be changing all their non-flexible tickets all the time so you know how to build your schedule from a passenger perspective people also know that this

16:45 [SPEAKER_00]: they can choose if they want to travel through a region with that uncertainty or not. [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, I mean with what you were just saying with what Trump tweeted or posted yesterday or on Monday, sorry, that then it's like, well, is this a good time? [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like every airline should still show as much flexibility as possible toward people because ultimately [SPEAKER_00]: It takes a lot to book a flight through the Middle East at the moment.

17:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Well Trump's post came as a bit of a surprise. [SPEAKER_01]: There weren't no specific bits of evidence that the [SPEAKER_01]: of increasing or worsening tensions, for example. [SPEAKER_01]: So then what do airlines do? [SPEAKER_01]: Do they rush to restore flexible booking policies because Trump tweeted that, oh, we were going to unleash hell on Iran tomorrow, but we have, but we're not going to now.

17:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Until I might again, how at what point do you start [SPEAKER_01]: make these big decisions that impact the financial health of each carrier based solely on rhetoric coming out of the White House and the same account that he's using to post means an AI footage and images of him pressing the red button and explosions happening and Matt and Silly and Nern and an aliens and the straight of Trump and all this you know how can you take the virus seriously [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what I would say on the policies is I think, and this is I think applicable to all the golf carriers, God forbid if there is a deterioration and and the situation moves back to something more like March where there is

18:32 [SPEAKER_01]: active conflict from the U.S. and Israel side on Iran and then Iran responding in a similar way to what it had been doing during March. [SPEAKER_01]: I think those policies will be back in a moment's notice and they will be like new bookings and it will be so that we saw them very quickly react at the beginning of the crisis.

18:51 [SPEAKER_01]: and I think all these carriers will be incredibly ready to move to phase down and move down to a smaller operation, which is not great for passengers because it's going to impact in terms of constellations. [SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, they're going to be guided by the decisions around safety.

19:09 [SPEAKER_01]: This has been the overarching theme for all of this. [SPEAKER_01]: And then you add the Ministry of Defense requirements. [SPEAKER_01]: You have airspace restrictions. [SPEAKER_01]: You have the regulatory concerns. [SPEAKER_01]: You have insurance. [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone has a say here.

19:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: As I said, I don't really blame the airline for doing this on the one hand. [SPEAKER_00]: On the other hand, what I'm trying to hint toward is that as a passenger, if I'm looking at which airline should I book, [SPEAKER_00]: and I know there's this uncertainty. [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't really matter if things flare up because there's also something between extremely flared up and between a comfortable, relatively peaceful situation and knowing having that piece of mind that, all right, if something happens, I can't change this ticket for free.

19:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So, as it stands now, the only major Gulf airline still offering flexibility is Emirates. [SPEAKER_00]: They offer one free change, which one free change is better than nothing, but even there, I'm like, well, what if I need to change twice? [SPEAKER_00]: There are, and loads of airlines in the world, there are loads of airlines in the world.

20:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So, if I'm going between Europe and Asia, [SPEAKER_00]: What is going to make me comfortable choosing to take the risk of flying through the Middle East? [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe not the risk to my safety but at least the risk of disruption. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there need to be there needs to be flexibility from the airline or something.

20:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So I wonder if perhaps from Qatar Airways perspective or from Etihad's perspective This could be hurting them commercially by people not choosing not to book them. [UNKNOWN]: I [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the thing is, the whole situation is hurting all the golf carriers, you know, collectively together because because the, the thing that they are not able to sell passengers right now because of their geopolitical situation and, you know, these, this unhelpful rhetoric and Trump's posts on, they are unable to sell certainty and when passengers are parting with their hard earned cash, they want to ensure they are buying.

21:06 [SPEAKER_01]: certainty. [SPEAKER_01]: We know how much passengers hate just the idea of a potential delay, how worrying it is for people when they hear about the potential of a strike, or of whether impacting that whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: And so at the moment, with this ongoing situation in the Middle East, the South East Asian carriers, your Singapore Airlines, Cathay, and so on, they are able to [SPEAKER_01]: to sell what the golf car is cannot, which is certainty, and that is the reality that will be short-lived and won't be forever or for too much longer, but it is the reality now.

21:42 [SPEAKER_01]: On the flip side to that coin, I flown four times in the last week. [SPEAKER_01]: including two and from the Middle East, flights were full, and I did manage to speak to one passenger who's a listener to the podcast and that's how we got talking. [SPEAKER_01]: And I asked him he was on his way to Singapore and I asked him what was the kind of reason I was finding around about way to say, ah, so you kind of stuck with your booking, is this a new booking, is this an existing one?

22:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And he said that actually this is a booking that had been that he had made on the fifth [SPEAKER_01]: and he could see obviously everything that was happening and he had people telling him you should cancel you should cancel but he wanted to see if the flight would continue to operate which it did and he said he was rebuked several times just adjusting from 2pm to 3pm to 3pm to 3.30 nothing major.

22:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And he said, the thing is he said to me, I travel a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: So I understand that different regions go through different things, different cycles of events. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is just one of those cycles. [SPEAKER_01]: And when it's not the Middle East, it will be somewhere else after.

22:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just something that keeps moving about. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is the nature of the world. [SPEAKER_01]: He said, so I tried not to overthink it. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought if my flight's operating, it means at the airline, knows that it's safe to do so. [SPEAKER_01]: And their airspace restrictions permit.

22:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And therefore, he kept an open mind about it. [SPEAKER_01]: Now there is a caveat here, which is that's very sensible thinking of him, but also at the same time it was a work trip. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's slightly different when he works for a company the company it was quite clear the company were paying for this for this travel and it had asked him if he was comfortable with the existing booking via the Middle Eastern he said yes and that's where the conversation finished.

23:17 [SPEAKER_01]: people take a very different stance when it's money from their own pocket and they're looking to buy certainty, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, of course, sticking to the conflict, I wanted to hear if you've seen the recent media barrage from Michael O'Leary, Ryan Air CEO, and he's suddenly coming out with his thoughts on the fuel situation in Europe that's summer.

23:43 [SPEAKER_00]: on the straight of her moves and the duration of the war in general, did you see that? [SPEAKER_01]: I did, yes, and I watched it last night actually as well, the longer form interviewer. [SPEAKER_01]: they introduced him on CNBC as industry legend, you know, veteran industry and he corrected the micro earlier and he said, no, don't call me that call me aging old fart, you know.

24:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And so when they closed off the segment, they said, thank you very much old fart, micro theory. [SPEAKER_01]: Or just quite funny. [SPEAKER_01]: But I did see it. [SPEAKER_01]: What were your thoughts? [SPEAKER_01]: What [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think it's so funny because it's actually quite rare to see airline CEOs go out across the media like this and do interviews the way that Michael O'Leary does.

24:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's always he always he's a very strategic person and clearly like we were talking about a few weeks ago or maybe last week. [SPEAKER_00]: he's strategic in the sense of well maybe we'll see where's there go bankrupt this fall with you I think he says it again didn't hear that they pushed him they said who's going to go bankrupt he said it could be where's it could be ever all take I mean that's just a disaster [SPEAKER_00]: Which is very convenient for him because it's their direct, low-cost competitors that are in trouble.

25:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: He shied away from having a gender. [SPEAKER_00]: Precisely. [SPEAKER_00]: He shied away from saying easy judges in trouble. [SPEAKER_00]: But now he came out after fear mongering during the spring. [SPEAKER_00]: He said in April things looked totally different. [SPEAKER_00]: But now and may we realize that Europe will not have a jet fuel shortage this summer.

25:24 [SPEAKER_00]: We realize that [SPEAKER_00]: that they're quickly working things out, redistributing a supply, nor a way is stepping up to help people removing the sanctions on Russia, is helping Eastern Europe. [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think about all this? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I thought it was interesting because he was careful in really making clear that it was the situation for Ryanair that he felt was fine.

25:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: And look no further than what the competitors are doing, which I'll come to. [SPEAKER_01]: But Ryanair is able to trim capacity very quickly. [SPEAKER_01]: It is able to move aircraft around and avoid weaker markets or problematic markets. [SPEAKER_01]: And they've been doing this since January, by the way, any dispute that they have had with a smaller airport in Europe, they hold a press conference where they say, we're leaving by and it's super vocal and very brash and very haragon in its in that style of saying, well, we fought with them and they they want to charge us this or they want to introduce this policy and we're not standing around for it.

26:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're moving out our aircraft and good luck with your local economy because Ryanair won't be part of it. [SPEAKER_01]: They've been doing that since January. [SPEAKER_01]: to different places across Europe including Austria and and I want to say somewhere in Portugal. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, anyway, I see it quite regularly.

26:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So they're able to be agile in that way. [SPEAKER_01]: And Ryanair, what also cutting schedules since January, but they were citing different complexities. [SPEAKER_01]: We spoke about this at the New Year. [SPEAKER_01]: You remember we were saying it's only a matter of time until Michael O'Leary comes out and says this summer, we're not going to be able to deliver the scheduled blah, blah, blah.

26:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Now he feels in a good place. [SPEAKER_01]: He feels in a good place because not only is Ryan Air Short Hall airline meaning that their flights are on average around 90 minutes, so they don't have the massive fuel considerations that the other airlines that fly mid and long hall have, but also they are very well hedged.

27:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So in terms of their fuel cost, they are able to their locked in at around 80% of their total jet fuel is hedged. [SPEAKER_01]: and hedging for those that don't know is basically locking in a price from previous and you pay that price monthly for jet fuel and therefore you protect yourselves from fluctuations.

27:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Now the positive is you protect yourself from when it climbs, the negative being is actually jet fuel price falls below your hedge you're paying a little higher but that hasn't been the case for a while. [SPEAKER_01]: So [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't surprised that he was able to be very brash and very confident and he pushed kind of the idea that Europe could run out of jet fuel September, he said rather than July, which is when the IEA was saying and the other industry bodies.

27:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I took his comments to other Alan executives for reaction. [SPEAKER_01]: One executive in the left answer group said, [SPEAKER_01]: that Frankfurt is in a worse place than other markets. [SPEAKER_00]: And that is also a deriving group fly there. [SPEAKER_01]: Ryanair doesn't fly there.

28:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is also evident in Lufthansa Group's decision to cancel 20,000 flights throughout the summer, right into October and directly linked to the fuel saving measures that are required because of the situation at Frankfurt and other airports. [SPEAKER_01]: The other realities are, the straight of Hormuz remains closed, there is currently no end inside.

28:35 [SPEAKER_01]: So the core problem around supply has not yet disappeared, because the UK, for example, and Northwest Europe and other countries, rely very heavily on jet fuel from the likes of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, 60% of Britain's [SPEAKER_01]: overall jet fuel deliveries come from Kuwait and Saudi, and so the big question continues to go unanswered, which is where is this 60% being replaced from?

29:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the UK of introduced policies to allow airlines to make those constellations easier and faster, not worry about the slots, but what we haven't heard from, for example, government is where they are actively able to replace [SPEAKER_01]: find a substitution to the 60% that would ordinarily be flowing out of the straight formos and currently cannot because it's pretty much closed.

29:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's, I thought it was classic O'Leary and, and [SPEAKER_01]: again, slightly agenda driven as his appearances always are, but also his very candid, his very honest, he's refreshingly across the numbers and I mean, the airlines that he, the Allies that he cited wouldn't have been best pleased with his kind of constant rhetoric building that erbotic, he said, he said him good luck to the Latvians, you know, getting any of that money back that erbotic owe them in August because they're going to kind of go bankrupt.

30:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And the same with Ways and another. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I always take everything he says with a pinch of salt because yes, I'm sure Ryanair has sort of somethings out. [SPEAKER_00]: But what they sort of skim over in the interview is the fact that Ryanair share price [SPEAKER_00]: is almost the lowest.

30:20 [SPEAKER_00]: It's been in a year. [SPEAKER_00]: It's currently trading as we're recording at 56. [SPEAKER_00]: What's the currency on this site? [SPEAKER_00]: I guess, oh USD 56 USD down from a high of 74 US dollar. [SPEAKER_00]: So, Ryanair has really been hurting. [SPEAKER_00]: Stockwise, of course, earlier is a stock owner in Ryanair.

30:42 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what makes him an airline CEO billionaire. [SPEAKER_00]: But, Reiner has a lot of incentives to calm people down ahead of summer travel because absolutely. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we've been talking about this fuel shortage for a long time since before it was in the media. [SPEAKER_00]: Suddenly, I'm sure you noticed that, well, as well, at some point a few weeks ago, [SPEAKER_00]: The media picked up on it and it became a huge story, and then everyone starts asking about me Friends coming out of the woodworks who haven't spoken to an A-dice going.

31:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think my summer flight is safe? [SPEAKER_00]: So suddenly people are worried. [SPEAKER_00]: At DM's look exactly the same. [SPEAKER_00]: So on the, you know, initially earlier he's like, yeah, you're screwing up. [SPEAKER_00]: You need we're not gonna have any oil [SPEAKER_00]: And now he's like, uh-oh, no one wants to book anymore because they think their flight's going to get canceled and they're making non-refundable plans.

31:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Reiner share price way down, as I said, I've got that didn't start in February, but it really went way down after February as well. [SPEAKER_00]: So now he has an incentive to come out and say everything's fine, which of course we have to believe that to some extent, but I don't fully think everything's as fine as he says.

31:59 [SPEAKER_01]: No, and as you say, there is clearly here a reason as to why he needs viewers of the business programs like the business channels like CNBC to buy into this idea that things are truly fine given as you correctly highlighted that his share price has fallen so low. [SPEAKER_01]: the only time they touched on it in the interview was at the beginning where he took the Mickey didn't hear and he said, yeah, oh, our share prices taken a battery and he said, oh, you know, we're an ally, I know how well, like kind of saying, oh, they're also scared.

32:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And actually, you know, I mean, there are legitimate concerns as to, [SPEAKER_01]: Why there is currently no certainty across the aviation sector given the global impact of a very active very on-going conflict that's affecting the affecting the sector. [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll keep an eye.

32:45 [SPEAKER_00]: What advice would advice are you giving people who reach out to you? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying to keep an open mind, I mean, I just filmed for a channel foreshow that's going to come out at the beginning of June for this and basically, you know, airlines that are going to trim that schedules are doing so to ensure that they can deliver a schedule that is more in line with their fuel supply, with demand, with their fuel costs and so on.

33:10 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why you may over the next few weeks receive a notification that you're 3pm flight to Geneva. [SPEAKER_01]: is no longer operating, but instead you've been rebuked on the 23rd year or the 4th year. [SPEAKER_01]: And I would say, keep an open mind about that. [SPEAKER_01]: Those decisions allow the airlines to be agile, but they are doing so in order.

33:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Constellations don't just equal, oh, it's just a cancellation then you're on your own. [SPEAKER_01]: Constellations are occurring to slim down a schedule, to deliver something that then they can uphold rather than everything they sold last year, which did not factor in a conflict of this scale size magnitude.

33:47 [SPEAKER_01]: But before we completely move on, there are few listeners who have written in, have you seen what's been happening at terminal five? [SPEAKER_01]: We'll show you as in the luggage situation. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this has been the past few days. [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, I think this is perhaps the fifth day of this, or maybe the fourth day, they've had, they were to show us have suffered a complete baggage failure since let me think that was.

34:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it started on Friday night last week, and it definitely encapsulated the whole weekend. [SPEAKER_01]: so many people have been caught up thousands of people have been caught up in this including some listeners that have written in and basically [SPEAKER_01]: It's just a classic kind of B-A-I-T style failure.

34:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Something about bank holidays coming up. [SPEAKER_01]: Something just goes very wrong at British Showers. [SPEAKER_01]: And the luggage situation at Terminal 5 is diet. [SPEAKER_01]: It looks like when it first opened to 2008, where all those bags and bags are piled up everywhere. [SPEAKER_01]: That's been the case.

34:47 [SPEAKER_01]: There are thousands of passengers still without that bags, due to the baggage system failure at Terminal 5. [SPEAKER_01]: It affected transit flights, those connecting through London, [SPEAKER_01]: and also those point-to-point departures, arrivals, you name it, it's been affected and people have been without their luggage for several days.

35:06 [SPEAKER_01]: People have been struggling to get in touch with British Showways because they've been inundated as a result. [SPEAKER_01]: As you can imagine, it's a mess and I just really thought BA would have [SPEAKER_01]: Learn how to kind of move around or kind of avoid such Such a crisis that they constantly suffer, but it's it's a meltdown and it's ongoing at the moment If you are a cool-tap and it you can can get in touch There's not much we can do other than try to provide you with alternative ways to get in touch with the airline Rather than just calling such as trying to utilize social media channels and so on, but even yeah many of those passages We're not having luck [SPEAKER_00]: This is a good reminder to one, keep an air tag or some sort of tracker in your bag just for that piece of mine and two to give it some sort of distinctive appearance so that in the pile of thousands of bags yours is not just a bag without any colorful tag or interesting design or something like that to make it easier to identify I just want to quickly before we move into our next topic say my advice that I've been giving people

36:11 [SPEAKER_00]: If they've booked a flight because the funny thing is it's a completely true or you said if you booked a legacy airline, you're fine and that's my advice to people. [SPEAKER_00]: If you're booked on lifetimes or a BA or you know foreign airlines as well that have multiple daily flights, they'll just rebook you at another time, you might get there earlier or later than expected, but [SPEAKER_00]: when you book a low-cost airline, and this is the irony with a lyrics saying this, many of Reiner's flights are twice weekly, three times weekly.

36:45 [SPEAKER_00]: That is when it is riskier to book an airline this summer because if you're Wednesday flight kids can't sell them the next optional Reiner's on Saturday and they won't rebook you on any other airlines that you can trust. [SPEAKER_00]: That's when you're screwed so legacy airlines. [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't worry at all.

37:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh low cost airlines are a roots with very few frequencies That's where it's a bit more risky. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. [SPEAKER_01]: Well with that. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's jump into a little Q&A [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I have a question here, and they're asking around the disappearance.

37:25 [SPEAKER_01]: If we expect the Aziana Brown to disappear any time soon, what's the update with the consolidation? [SPEAKER_01]: And actually, we do have an update, which is that, yes, the Aziana Brown is going to disappear, and we have a date now, is set for December. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's when, [SPEAKER_01]: Asiana will merge fully into Korean air, and it is one of the biggest examples of the, well, of an Asian airline consolidation in recent history, because and it matters a lot for passengers, because of Star Alliance and Sky Team got of coming together with Korean air being the overarching brand of the future.

38:06 [SPEAKER_01]: for South Korea. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's the update, December, no more ASEAN or the beginning of the end for ASEAN as it is absorbed into Korea. [SPEAKER_00]: That's pretty crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: It's been such a major airline or whole lives. [SPEAKER_00]: And now, I mean, mergers just, they make me sad.

38:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I like variety. [SPEAKER_00]: I like competition, but [SPEAKER_00]: it needs to happen, Korean air is reinventing itself. [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, we'll be excited to see what happens. [SPEAKER_00]: This is going to be a mega airline all of the sudden. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, I mean, it already is because they operate as one, but yeah, it is going to be massive.

38:42 [SPEAKER_00]: When their schedules get coordinated, that's going to be interesting to see you because obviously their fleet is enormous. [SPEAKER_00]: All right, next. [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a, I've got a, I've got a, a nice note here, an email from Emily. [SPEAKER_01]: She says, hi, Alex, how are you?

38:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Hope you're both doing well. [SPEAKER_01]: Firstly, this is one of you both. [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to say how much I love the podcast. [SPEAKER_01]: It genuinely gets me out of bed before work, which is no smaller achievement. [SPEAKER_01]: I've listened for years and has become a genuine highlight of my week.

39:10 [SPEAKER_01]: The passion you both have for aviation comes through every episode. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's why the podcast works so well. [SPEAKER_01]: It's become a bit of an escape for me on my commute to Glasgow each week. [SPEAKER_01]: I honestly don't think there's another aviation podcast that gets the balance quite as right as yours does.

39:25 [SPEAKER_01]: A quick one and my first for the Q&A section of the podcast. [SPEAKER_01]: After you're most recent episode on airport alcohol consumption and thinking back to the discussion a while back about emergency exit row passengers needed to be fit to assist in an emergency, surely the two things don't really go together.

39:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It feels slightly odd that someone could be responsible for an emergency exit after a few airport pints or wines before departure. [SPEAKER_01]: Do we think emergency exit passengers should be banned from alcohol altogether? [SPEAKER_00]: What a great question. [SPEAKER_01]: I love the lovely email.

40:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Bruthalizer is in the exit row immediately. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, this is really valid because it's all very well that physically someone is [SPEAKER_01]: fit able ready to assist in an emergency. [SPEAKER_01]: But what if they're absolutely hammered? [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: That is a great point.

40:21 [SPEAKER_01]: New fear unlocked. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: So now we're going to be looking at the exit road thinking. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he doesn't not do good. [SPEAKER_01]: You know something more. [SPEAKER_01]: What are we that some that's a I [SPEAKER_01]: would support such policy that if you are as part of the conditions of courage, if you are sitting in the exit rope, particularly if you are sitting at the window, which is the actual, you know, you are the exit door handler, then I think that it is more than reasonable.

40:52 [SPEAKER_01]: to require that individual to not drink. [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't know how that would be enforced. [SPEAKER_00]: It's completely reasonable. [SPEAKER_00]: At least don't let the crew serve alcohol to people sitting in the as a row window. [SPEAKER_00]: That's an easy solution. [SPEAKER_00]: And this makes me...

41:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Even though they may have just got completely plastered in the terminal. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if they can tell that they're very drunk, hopefully. [SPEAKER_00]: So then who's telling the judge? [SPEAKER_00]: That's actually a good idea. [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of the time it's obvious, but I don't know, but this is where it falls apart, because I've seen really drunk people pass through the gate and they say, boarding pass and the person's not even looking at them.

41:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, yeah, they're drunk. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they're not. [SPEAKER_00]: The crew need to scrutinize the people in the exerome each time. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know I would say that would be a fair kind of introduction to the RSOP, just making sure that when you ask them because the policy now is that you get asked if you're sitting in an X-RO are you okay to assist in the unlikely event in that period they could also say by the way, we're not serving you alcohol because you know for the, for the understandable.

41:56 [SPEAKER_00]: obvious reason that you're in an exorbitant, yes, it makes me think of a lot of people forward to this, the videos from the front here evacuation, the after they unfortunately hit a person on takeoff in Denver, which luckily everyone on board was fine, but in horrendous incident. [SPEAKER_00]: and then again like every time we see every single person taking their bags and what's so interesting is that because they have to evacuate the aircraft.

42:27 [SPEAKER_00]: What's so interesting is that this evacuation was so slow. [SPEAKER_00]: You can actually hear people talking and I literally heard someone in one of the videos like [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, of course I'm taking this, it is, it's gotten to the point where it's just, I mean those videos are horrifying to me because the evacuation is going so slowly and it's just, I was like if I was there stuck, I don't know what I would do, but I'm not waiting for you guys to get your bags.

43:03 [SPEAKER_01]: a conversation and they were saying they were saying in Greek. [SPEAKER_01]: She get your stuff, get your stuff out of the locker and he proceeds to do so and another person just said leave your stuff and then the crew was shouting leave your stuff and it's just No, it's getting worse. [SPEAKER_00]: It is what it was.

43:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it's it's first of all. [SPEAKER_00]: It makes me I mean I don't I forget about this as soon as I'm selecting a sea, but it whenever I'm on the flight. [SPEAKER_00]: I think Thank goodness. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not too many rows from the exit row because if you're [SPEAKER_00]: In the middle of a cabin, the furthest you can get from the nearest exit row and you're thinking that all these people around you are going to, you know, be bringing their bags with them or their rolling bags, that that's not good.

43:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're absolutely right. [SPEAKER_01]: That's a valid point. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, look, we will reconvene the same time, same place. [SPEAKER_01]: Next, we can do for free to send in your questions. [SPEAKER_01]: You can leave a comment on Spotify where many of you listen. [SPEAKER_01]: But also as a comment on YouTube, you can contact us via our shared Instagram for the podcast.

44:07 [SPEAKER_01]: It's at on-air with Dan and Alex. [SPEAKER_01]: All one word, all in lowercase, as is Instagram's style. [SPEAKER_01]: and we will see you next week. [SPEAKER_00]: We will see you next week on air. [SPEAKER_00]: Bye bye. [SPEAKER_01]: See you later.