The Aircraft Dan Flew as a Kid Was Destroyed by a Missile

0:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Dan and I'm Alex and welcome back to on-air with Dan and Alex available wherever you get your podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: Please to have you guys with us. [SPEAKER_01]: So today's episode is a bit of a much needed catch-up after a lot of news, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the news has been a little heavy.

0:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just have a bit more of a catch-up. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm interested, firstly, how are you holding up? [SPEAKER_01]: I've been better, I'm currently in the throws of food poisoning, which is always a great experience, so yeah, how are you? [SPEAKER_00]: Are you able to pinpoint it to specific man or restaurant or...

0:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I feel like normally you can, but this time I have no clue at all, what is caused it? [SPEAKER_01]: And I haven't, luckily I haven't had an issue like this in a few years, so yeah, we're just like, at first we were, so here's something I want to ask you. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess you like me these days turn to AI, as soon as like you have some sort of problem on like, what could this be?

1:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So I asked, [SPEAKER_01]: Gemini, Claude, and Chat TVT, just to be safe, and all three of them were like based on my symptoms. [SPEAKER_01]: They were like, oh my God, you have carbon monoxide poisoning, get out of the apartment immediately. [SPEAKER_01]: You need to call the emergency services and go to the hospital, and I was like, okay, this is a bit dramatic.

1:32 [SPEAKER_01]: But then you start freaking out because everyone knows that carbon monoxide poisoning is fatal. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, okay, and the weird thing is that Oscar and I had the exact same symptoms at the same time. [SPEAKER_01]: So we end up going to the hospital. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I'm thinking, are you gone?

1:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we end up going to the hospital. [SPEAKER_01]: We go to the hospital. [SPEAKER_01]: We call like building security to do like a carbon monoxide test. [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, we can't do that until tomorrow. [SPEAKER_01]: So we went to the hospital, we didn't end up getting the tests we needed because they didn't have it.

2:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So instead, we went and slept at a hotel, just to walk by at the apartment. [SPEAKER_00]: When you inform the hospital as to why you thought you needed this test, will they resist it in any way or will they... [SPEAKER_01]: So here's what's funny. [SPEAKER_01]: When you travel all the time, any time I go to the hospital with some sort of issue, which is not that often, thankfully.

2:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, where have you traveled in the past few weeks? [SPEAKER_01]: So I go, yeah, I went to read, um, oh, and I went to Bali. [SPEAKER_01]: And immediately, whenever you save into Bali, anywhere, they're like, dengue fever or malaria. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's just what they assume.

2:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Even though this was weeks ago, so it shouldn't be dengue. [SPEAKER_01]: So I was telling them I was like no, the signs are pointing to it might be carbon dioxide poisoning and they're like completely no no no no chance no chance this is dengue or something and I'm like no it's not but um so we didn't end up getting the test stated a hotel and now it's been a few days we're very sure it's not carbon also have full poisoning because then we both ended up getting [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it's quite a journey, what kind of things you've been through, I mean, how do you, this, I guess, is pretty relevant because we're both asked this a lot.

3:40 [SPEAKER_00]: But also, we both discuss this with each other quite a bit in terms of safeguarding around the world travels in the small measures that you can control. [SPEAKER_00]: And I am a great believer in [SPEAKER_00]: you know, in doing what you can control because there is so much beyond that control, right?

3:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So although, yes, in the grand scheme of things, you know, okay, it's all very well that you're carrying wipes or sanitiser here or there, but then you have no idea of the status of the person who just prepared your food. [SPEAKER_00]: Again, all that, all the rational, logical stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, I always think, okay.

4:17 [SPEAKER_00]: If I can take care of the things I can control, it's something, even if it's the smaller percentage. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's like, for example, in so many countries I would avoid ice, I mean, I avoid ice, kind of generally everywhere now, because I might freeze and cold drinks anyway. [SPEAKER_00]: I see, um, uh, water that sits on top of a salad and it was like, oh, you know, why have you been sitting on a salad or kind of salad, and I'm not talking about what in certain countries.

4:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, when they bring in certain countries, especially across Asia, when they bring a [SPEAKER_00]: A salad, and I can just see it glistening with my tap brush, so washed. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm like okay, that's in the void front my side. [SPEAKER_00]: And then kind of the water thing, I mean for sure, in so many places, well, extending to brushing your teeth using bottled water.

5:15 [SPEAKER_00]: bit some pieces like that. [SPEAKER_00]: There's only so much you can do and it's and it does require effort. [SPEAKER_00]: But I do think for example, I mean, I haven't been near a buffet in 20 years, maybe more. [SPEAKER_00]: The buffet is my idea of a nightmare, no matter what country.

5:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And actually that really frustrates me because not buffet, but just recently I walked into this stunning European bakery. [SPEAKER_00]: and that the breads were incredible in the pastries and the designs and everything. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm standing there like, boy, do you guys let yourselves down?

5:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I can't have any of it. [SPEAKER_00]: Why? [SPEAKER_00]: Because every single thing is exposed. [SPEAKER_00]: And if you look closely, people's bags are leaning up against it. [SPEAKER_00]: People are all just coughing and sneezing and spitting and talking over. [SPEAKER_00]: I hate that, please.

6:08 [SPEAKER_00]: If you do own a small business, [SPEAKER_00]: They create food products. [SPEAKER_00]: Please somehow put it behind a counter because it's just so much better for a piece of mind than just accepting that it's been a free-for-all I know what you mean. [SPEAKER_01]: I know what you mean. [SPEAKER_01]: I think you're totally right about being careful.

6:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm also very careful, but [SPEAKER_01]: What happens is that the last time I recall getting food poisoning or stomach issues in a developing country is when I got salmonella in Bali in March 2020, which was the worst experience like that I've ever had, but and it's like, but also how does a vegan get salmonella?

6:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even want to think about what was accidentally in my food, but it's not just [SPEAKER_01]: me. [SPEAKER_01]: No, but I'm an elephant. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it comes from excrement. [SPEAKER_01]: So, right, presumably we I some vegetable or something that some chickens had walked around on or something and yeah, we don't need to go too much into that.

7:15 [SPEAKER_01]: But the point is that since then, every single time I've got stomach issues, it's in the West. [SPEAKER_01]: Which tells me what? [SPEAKER_01]: That when I'm traveling in Asia or somewhere, you know, we take those precautions. [SPEAKER_01]: In Bali, I barely ate a raw vegetable for eight days or anything raw for that matter.

7:39 [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm in India, I mean, I go to India several times a year, not for long, but normally like a day, transit or something, I never get any issues because I'm so careful. [SPEAKER_01]: But then somewhere that you assume is safe, [SPEAKER_01]: And that's always where it happens. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what's so deceiving.

7:59 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I'm like, you know, I don't feel like you need to, you shouldn't have to take these precautions everywhere. [SPEAKER_01]: But then again, in Thailand, I eat ice. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, not eat ice, but like I'll have drinks with ice. [SPEAKER_01]: I eat raw vegetables quite a bit.

8:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I've never in like 35 visits to Thailand. [SPEAKER_01]: I've been [SPEAKER_01]: all over the country, got stomach issues from the food, and meanwhile in the west it's like, well now and then it's going to happen. [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know, it might just be about the amount of time spent.

8:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Frank Fennett was supposed to see you coming. [SPEAKER_00]: There's pretzels in the sanitar lounge. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Another thing that's exposed, delicious if they were covered, but they're [SPEAKER_00]: I came across the last month, a tortoise, a big tortoise, crossing this dirt track road in front of me.

8:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, get out of the car. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm greased, I assume. [SPEAKER_00]: I get out of the car, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And I, I'm like, you know, pleasant trees. [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, how are you? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm letting it cross the road in front of me so that I hadn't, you know, hit it.

9:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it was, I was like, wow, then I remember just being a kid. [SPEAKER_00]: me and my cousins running into the fields and picking these massive tortoises up and bringing them to my grandmother's house and they would be yeah and then we'd have like a pen of tortoises and we'd go to the beach yeah seriously and they were massive and we'd go to the beach for the day and we'd come back and let's say there were six that morning suddenly there were three and we were looking at grandmother like what have you done and say are they just left or something [SPEAKER_00]: would be half checking the source bin in the kitchen and half like suspicious of what had happened.

9:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I think she knew that they didn't belong on her veranda. [SPEAKER_00]: They belong in the fields and so she was gently kind of putting them back. [SPEAKER_00]: So I remember that. [SPEAKER_00]: So I picked up the tortoise on the road now in front of me and I used two hands and I picked up just to get a [SPEAKER_00]: how much, how similar the head of a tortoise is to a snake, that is like a copy-paste.

10:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a snake with a hard show. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm staring at it thinking, oh shit, I think I might be scared. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure because it looks like and especially his head was moving because I lifted it from the ground. [SPEAKER_00]: So I take a photo of it and then, you know, guilty as charged, I put it into blood, into Jackie with a hard blood.

10:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And was like what species of there's or breed or whatever is of this tortoise probably And it responds immediately put this tortoise down. [SPEAKER_00]: They carry Samanela Yeah, that was the fastest I've ever written Like I wanted to throw it back at it. [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, I didn't want you because blessing the poll I didn't want him to be injured.

11:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So like really quickly put it down and the sterilizing [SPEAKER_01]: The absurdity of you being more scared of a buffet than picking up a wild tortoise. [SPEAKER_01]: You can see our buffet and run. [SPEAKER_00]: You can see our tortoise and go, oh, let me pick it up. [SPEAKER_00]: Listen, it was nostalgia coming and I was remembering, well, we used to do this as kids and we used to create like a tool to swarm on the ground and they were always so many.

11:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And they were huge. [SPEAKER_00]: So I thought, okay, you know, seven-year-old Alex was picking them up. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe. [SPEAKER_00]: pick it up and then I told you two realizations. [SPEAKER_00]: The snake similarity and then what Claude said. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that was the torture story.

11:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been back in the car. [SPEAKER_00]: It's terrorizing and on my way. [SPEAKER_00]: Good. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, lucky you always have a sterilized wife. [SPEAKER_01]: God. [SPEAKER_01]: Same. [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, let's pivot this conversation to airlines because one thing I'm always slightly worried about slash fascinated by is how [SPEAKER_01]: the, let's just talk about India or Delhi, wait, what's the called Delhi Bengali?

12:13 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's not. [SPEAKER_01]: Is it? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is. [SPEAKER_01]: It is. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is. [SPEAKER_01]: that I always presume that the airline catering out of those cities is safe. [SPEAKER_01]: Like whatever the precautions they're taking in the kitchens must be pretty, you know, extreme to ensure that people don't get sick on flights.

12:38 [SPEAKER_01]: You also don't hear stories, [SPEAKER_01]: At least, I don't very often have people getting food poisoning from airplane catering, but then again, I remember just a few weeks ago we spoke about how my friend was flying British Airways first and got food poisoning. [SPEAKER_01]: She's a hundred percent sure from the flight.

12:57 [SPEAKER_00]: As my neighbour, a very close friend and neighbour, also had not eaten anything for a 24 hour period and then flew an evening overnight flight. [SPEAKER_00]: In British Airways, first, [SPEAKER_00]: was violently sick with food poisoning, in the same exact scenario as your friend, for three days he was in his hotel room in Abu Dhabi, just completely out of it, three or four days, I think he said, and he knows because he hadn't eaten anything prior that it was [SPEAKER_00]: From the food on the flight on B.A.

13:28 [SPEAKER_00]: first that's so it happened at the same time when you message me about your friend and My neighbor. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, tell me about his experience. [SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy But that again, is it one of those things where because it's Bolly or because it's Delhi the kitchens are like the staff are wearing masks They're fully closed like they're about to go into some you know pandemic zone [SPEAKER_01]: everything is sanitized so thoroughly versus it may be Western airline kitchens are not quite as stringent.

14:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's definitely merit there because I've seen firsthand some of the way that and it doesn't surprise me that on the whole airline food is fine and that people are fine from it because the measures that are required the strict protocols at airlines let's say for example airlines across the Middle [SPEAKER_00]: Asia, South Asia, South East Asia, the forest and so on.

14:24 [SPEAKER_00]: There is real consistency there that breaks away from the stereotypes of what that country might be known for food hygiene wise just domestically within society, because the protocols are endless in terms of being a sterile environment, but also the protocols that they require that suppliers to follow.

14:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And a couple of my friends have got different arms of [SPEAKER_00]: catering, different divisions that they supply airlines, perhaps they supply airlines, bread, one of my friends supplies airlines, gluten free bread, I've got friends that supply juices, I've got friends that work on the side of vegetarian vegan and the plant-based meals and the lengths they have to go to as suppliers.

15:12 [SPEAKER_00]: to ensure that there is that consistency and that it doesn't fall apart, for example, in the journey on the way. [SPEAKER_00]: So imagine everything's great and watertight and then actually the whole is the journey to the airlines headquarters or the central kitchen for catering. [SPEAKER_00]: So basically, the measures that are there are so tight that it's incredibly difficult either to become a supplier, [SPEAKER_00]: for an airline catering, or be to win the tender and therefore you're becoming the supply but then be able to implement the necessary protocols that the airlines dictate and that is because this is a mass transit form of public transport, right?

15:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Thousands and thousands and thousands over a hundred thousand, you know, you're speaking about an immense number of flights in any 24-hour period [SPEAKER_00]: and all of them have some form of catering on it, give or take a few airlines. [SPEAKER_00]: Did you see what American Airlines are doing at the moment with Heathrow, because of a catering breakdown?

16:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is something that's pretty important. [SPEAKER_00]: And basically, American are a nice recent example in this scenario of an airline that is currently double catering as an emergency work around. [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll come to double catering [SPEAKER_00]: But after what they say, they've suffered a catering break down at Heathrow, American is now flying mills, both for the outbound and the return journey, which is double catering from the US origin airport instead of loading locally in London.

16:50 [SPEAKER_00]: What does that mean? [SPEAKER_00]: It means that the New York London flight is going full, full to capacity in terms of everything required for the flight there catering. [SPEAKER_00]: And that extends everything from drinks to snacks [SPEAKER_00]: to everything that's also required on the way back and of course the result for passengers has been absolutely terrible because now it's been bare minimum catering even in premium cabins since the galleys on the aircraft are simply not built to hold you know two full long haul loads and there can be no items that would [SPEAKER_00]: be perishable faster, for example no seafood, there's reduced choice, and for passengers that's a bit of a nightmare, but also double catering as a concept isn't great for passengers in my opinion as a whole.

17:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm really many airlines are doing it. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not I'm not a fan of double catering. [SPEAKER_00]: That's funny. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm I'm very pro double slash return catering because I generally find that airlines have the best catering at their own hubs [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm a fan when I know that especially the Middle Eastern Airlines, which do a lot of double catering to on flights in Europe and Asia, I'm really happy when it's like, okay, I know I'm getting Dubai catering as opposed to, I don't know, Copenhagen.

18:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Now I think you might have, you might have a slightly skewed, I think it might be easier, [SPEAKER_00]: Right? [SPEAKER_00]: Because the thing with double catering is versus if they were to load from outstation, if you're reordering a beef tenderloin, for example, and that beef tenderloin has already flown eight hours to Europe.

18:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And that means it was loaded on two hours prior to that. [SPEAKER_00]: It's been in the chilled aircraft. [SPEAKER_00]: for all those hours and then you have the turn around, let's say that's another two hours. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you take off and you depart on the flight back and then you order and you eat three hours in.

18:55 [SPEAKER_00]: We're approaching 15 hours since that beef ready for your beef tenderloin dish was loaded onto the aircraft. [SPEAKER_00]: Now no matter how hard the crew try, [SPEAKER_00]: that beef is going to either be dry or tough because it's been, it's just been so long and it's been so long refrigerated, it's been so, and so from that perspective I see double catering as a bit problematic.

19:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess it also comes down to which airport you'd be flying from, whether dovocatoring is better or not, depending on what that destination is. [SPEAKER_01]: But how did we get into, oh yeah, American Airlines is having these issues. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

19:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to move to this really nice post that you put on Instagram about the last one of the last A340 600 still flying in the world and you booked a flight just to say goodbye. [SPEAKER_00]: This is just a few days ago and the A340 is your, I mean that's your thing. [SPEAKER_00]: So you booked this special flight just to say goodbye because you know it's [SPEAKER_00]: Halas is out of service soon, or what was the story there?

20:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's it. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the flight was a few days ago, but the video came out a few days ago, it's, I mean, it's so sad, saying goodbye to what was already a very rare aircraft, only 97, Airbus A340, 600, it's where ever built, and they went almost as quickly as they came, as I discussed in the video, what I didn't realize, [SPEAKER_01]: is that the first flight of the triple seven 300 was basically two years after the E3-4600.

20:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yet that triple seven is about 30% more fuel efficient per seat. [SPEAKER_01]: So the E3-4600 was doomed from the start, but it is just, in my opinion, the most stunning satisfying plane. [SPEAKER_00]: We like an undead dog, don't you? [SPEAKER_00]: I just love that. [SPEAKER_01]: But the fact that it's one floor instead of two, but still has four engines, four big engines and it just looks so elegant.

21:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, it's hard to describe what it is, but what is Dan, you are so lucky that you have these amazing photos from 2005. [SPEAKER_00]: where you are on board the Virgin Atlantic a through 40. [SPEAKER_00]: These photos are iconic, they're perfect. [SPEAKER_00]: If anyone that hasn't seen it, it's on his Instagram.

21:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a young co-host Dan, his age eight, he looks about five, and he's standing with his father in the aisle on a Virgin Atlantic economy, and they are [SPEAKER_00]: and the sea headrest, antimicous things, are advertising for a London 2012 Olympics, which would be some seven years later, which of course there was successful in that bid and the 2012 Olympics to take place in London.

21:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And so Virgin Atlantic says, Premier partner, backing the bid London 2012. [SPEAKER_00]: And Dan is standing in the middle of the aisle for a really amazing, just really special photo with his father and it's on the three 14. [SPEAKER_00]: And then there's a photo of you outside of the A340 because again, you and you're in this tartan shirt.

22:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And you just look like a kid from this, I'm surprised they were not filming love actually that day. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Because it all looks very, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: very love actually and I guess you know people were commenting there was such an outpouring of love people were were like what this this post is so beautiful this is a reminder that an aircraft is more than just you know a vessel or a single journey it's like a chapter in your life it's you know this is this could be what this is why you are who you are today in blah blah blah and just you're so lucky to have those photos [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know, I mean, so true, but you know, it's crazy.

23:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad I shared them because what I didn't know, so someone saw on the second photo of me outside the aircraft, on the nose, what are those called the, by the nose wheel, where you read the registration. [SPEAKER_01]: So it says OA. [SPEAKER_01]: So someone said, right, you flew and they flew on what's the aircraft.

23:22 [SPEAKER_01]: G VG OA, which was Virgin Atlanta in a 3, 4,600 from Virgin Atlanta delivered in August, 2003. [SPEAKER_01]: But guess where that aircraft ended up venturing in 2015. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, where did it go after Virgin Atlanta? [SPEAKER_00]: there are very few a through forty six hundreds kind of moving about I'm not sure where did it go so it went to my computer in your wrong way it went to Iran [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, where it was registered EPMME and guess where the sketch crazy on March 29th That was the one that was destroyed it by a missile on the ground in Mashaad, Iran.

24:15 [SPEAKER_01]: How crazy. [SPEAKER_01]: This was just it. [SPEAKER_01]: But [SPEAKER_00]: This is the aircraft that was destroyed as part of the bombings US and Israel just now in months. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we saw those we saw all that footage of the triple seven That was completely destroyed that Mahaneir just took [SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't actually, I've read that there was some A340 that was damaged too.

24:39 [SPEAKER_01]: But now that I found this out and I looked this whole thing up, yeah, I've seen photos around door two, the aircraft was hit and it's just, what a crazy sort of, yeah, I told my dad, he was also just mind blown by the fact that I just post this video and we find out about this, you know?

25:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how did you feel that's weird because it's like something so geopolitically now But yeah somehow you because there is it is true that there are certain as and many people won't understand this But I know many of the listeners will there are certain moments in life [SPEAKER_00]: in terms of your aviation life, whether it was your first flight or a flight that meant something special to you or your first on that.

25:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And there are certain aircraft registrations that stick in your head and you just have a special association with it. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like a kid that you that's flown the nest and off it goes. [SPEAKER_00]: No matter if you open flight radar five years later or you come across it on the ground Seoul, Inchon Airport, 10 years later and you see the red.

25:45 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like seeing one of your own. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's like a red team. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's yours. [SPEAKER_00]: There is real ownership there. [SPEAKER_00]: That's this might sound crazy to some, but I think others will say yep, we get it. [SPEAKER_00]: And [SPEAKER_00]: So then, I don't know how did you think of it?

26:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we already know that E340 was dying. [SPEAKER_01]: So I just thought it's a very symbolic, drastic expression of where the E340 is going. [SPEAKER_01]: And the fact that this, my first fight that I really remember on this aircraft that I loved so much was literally destroyed in this conflict that has affected everyone all over the world.

26:30 [SPEAKER_01]: in so many different ways, but here is an additional way somehow that in a very small way, very, very small on the grants, in the grants scheme of things, in significant way that I was affected by it as well, you know? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. [SPEAKER_00]: So I have just checked to see where some of the oldest photos I have, similar to yours, where I'm really young and I'm on an aircraft.

26:59 [SPEAKER_00]: like my mum has taken photos of me sitting and I've got the book out where I would get the pilots to fill in the information of where we were flying in the aircraft type and so on. [SPEAKER_00]: Some of those early photos I have, I'm about six or seven years old and I'm sitting on a site per se, always A330.

27:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I per se, always was the former National Online of Cyprus and would fly A330 longhold between Lannica and London and I've just checked now. [SPEAKER_00]: So, the [SPEAKER_00]: First, there were two. [SPEAKER_00]: One of them was scrapped, after it went out to say, was went past, it started flying with Air Europa.

27:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So it just kind of moving from Cyprus to Spain. [SPEAKER_00]: And then later it was returned to the lesser to the leasing company and was eventually broken up and scrapped. [SPEAKER_00]: And they'd used the spare parts for so-called parts. [SPEAKER_00]: OK. Then the other one, which is the main one that I remember was flying on, which was Kirenia, it was named, which is now in northern Cyprus.

27:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And that, well, no, sorry, that was Karanya, sorry, the other one. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And more trust us, is currently active in DR Congo and it's flying, yeah, it's flying to that. [SPEAKER_00]: So that aircraft that I had some of my first flight, some, is flying today for fly CAA, the company of African derviation in the Democratic Republic of Congo was [SPEAKER_00]: accident in 2024, but seemingly okay, and still flying today.

28:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And then some of my earlier photos are on BA's fleet of 767s, but they were scrapped, which was sad, but they were really nostalgic. [SPEAKER_00]: So they used the lights, used a malfunction on those aircraft, and it used to be like a disco, so that it would be like strobe lighting, they were flashing.

28:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Up and down the cabin, and it was just like it was normal [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, you know, this happens on the old 76's. [SPEAKER_00]: That's really like that. [SPEAKER_00]: And it was just, it was super blouse, I about it. [SPEAKER_00]: And it was, you know, that, those are all the flights he used to do on a company minor on where I would go wearing that, that land yard with a big thing that said, um, you ever.

29:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: As if I was unsure, and I'm excuse me, don't tell me where the gate is, I'll be telling you. [SPEAKER_00]: No, that was seven. [SPEAKER_01]: But that is symbolic for the first 7671 to Spain, where you also have a connection. [SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of... Yeah, you're kind of... No, no, the D330, that was the D330 right.

29:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the... [SPEAKER_01]: The connection to the DRC maybe isn't... [SPEAKER_01]: as strong. [SPEAKER_01]: It makes me think of one thing before we go into Q&A. [SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen on social media the airline that is going viral? [SPEAKER_01]: It's not from the DRC, but Somalia's new airline, Ryan Air.

29:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it is. [SPEAKER_00]: I keep seeing rules about this and of course I don't have TikToks and that means I must get it two weeks later than you. [SPEAKER_00]: I keep seeing it and thinking [SPEAKER_00]: This is rubbish like this is something this is acting or whatever like that. [SPEAKER_00]: It's cool like being all sassy and dancing.

30:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Am I right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it's they are so funny to crew our hilarious and it is a real airline that started operations four months ago in February this year, they operate one Falker 50, which to everyone who doesn't know the Falker 50 is not the newest. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is all the way, this is all too funny.

30:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course you just donate don't you yeah, and now it's flying for Ryan air based in Mogadishu [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's so interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's funny because I was just telling a friend recently. [SPEAKER_00]: My friend was complaining about why this certain route gets the worst aircraft.

31:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, why is that relevant? [SPEAKER_00]: I said, actually, this has pissed off so many African nations understandably so where they feel that they get short change by the airlines, where they think that, you know, the court-proplanning teams of European Airlines sit there and say, oh, is that an Africa route?

31:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Let us just find our worst, most broken, older [SPEAKER_00]: saving the newer aircraft for like transatlantic and Asia and so on. [SPEAKER_00]: So some countries introduced work to introduce laws to [SPEAKER_00]: limit the age of an aircraft. [SPEAKER_00]: So they're like respective civil aviation authorities said in order to fly here the aircraft has to be below like 12 years old or something.

31:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And they they single handedly forced the hand of airlines like British Airways to send their A through 50s to two places like Ghana. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah exactly yeah it was Ghana. [SPEAKER_00]: Rather than put up with understandably say what they said was just that the worst of the fleet all these old [SPEAKER_00]: really out older than us, triple sevens.

32:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, honestly, if you're gonna do something for the people, that's one thing you can do, just be like, hey, we don't want this. [SPEAKER_00]: I love a piece of legislation that demands a through 51,000s. [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing less. [SPEAKER_00]: Because we, the people, deserve it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, God, I would get behind a candidate who was uh, doesn't matter.

32:26 [SPEAKER_00]: There are some of the new candidates as part of what's going on in the UK can Come back to the money the UK Heathrow gets the best of the best and it does. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, from a foreign Airlines. [SPEAKER_01]: Be so fine. [SPEAKER_01]: Almost 30-year-old triple sevens, but [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but not all of them.

32:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, don't be, you know, that's not all. [SPEAKER_00]: Be I have made great progress with the introduction of the 350s and so on. [SPEAKER_00]: They've got some of these things to happen. [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, those, those old trouble 7200s, the cabins are nice. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, it's gateway.

33:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It's gateway. [SPEAKER_00]: Really, yeah, it's going to be like the left overs. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm just seeing the oldest aircraft. [SPEAKER_00]: So the oldest 7-3-7s in the world, a 7-3-7-200s, so they don't have engines, they have hairdryers. [SPEAKER_00]: And they are still operating almost 50 years after delivery.

33:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Nollinore in Canada is the world's largest operator of the type, and flies them on remote northern routes, [SPEAKER_00]: one of them entered service in 1974 and is cited as the oldest commercial jetliner still operating today and then of course after that we very quickly pivot to Iran because Iran because of the sanctions, the long history, Iran air.

33:46 [SPEAKER_00]: continues to operate a 300s dating back from the early 80s, and Mahaneh has flown 7 for 7s also from the 80s. [SPEAKER_00]: But it says, if it says Alex, if you and Dan realistically want to book, then the easiest old time of flight is going to be the 737200 by the [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would do it in Northern Canada.

34:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I definitely trust the maintenance that it would be fine and quite the experience. [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe we should do that for our next trip together. [SPEAKER_00]: Let me sleep on it. [SPEAKER_00]: How about that? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's sleep on it. [SPEAKER_01]: You wouldn't even get on a 737 actually.

34:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we need to move into Q&A. [SPEAKER_00]: I think we need to move into Q&A. [SPEAKER_00]: Dan's getting head of himself here and I'm worried you might say something. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's move into Q&A. [SPEAKER_01]: So we have a question here from Genic. [SPEAKER_01]: He says, he booked Emirates business class from Sydney to Europe using points, but this week Emirates swapped his flight from an eighth grade to a triple seven with the old two, three, two business class.

34:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, he cannot change flights, because there are no awards he's available on other dates. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's question is how do airlines decide which aircraft to operate, which routes speaking of the Africa topic, and how often do those decisions change? [SPEAKER_01]: So you need to do buy feels like a flagship Emirates route, so he's surprised that there's such an old business cost product on it, and what does he think, what do we think are the chances of the aircraft being switched again?

35:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's just start by acknowledging that. [SPEAKER_01]: For now, the situation with Middle Eastern Airlines is still a little unpredictable, and I think that there's going to be this kind of flip flopping between capacity and frequencies at least until October when the winter schedule starts, but do you agree that that's likely what people should expect?

36:01 [SPEAKER_00]: changes. [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't necessarily equate to all the airlines are trimming their schedules again, but don't forget that the situation that happened with Iran that has been stretching on for months has affected every airline around the world. [SPEAKER_00]: And as a result, those schedules now that as they look to the winter season, for example between October and March next year, [SPEAKER_00]: those schedules may need adjusting because they were published and determined prior to the war.

36:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Now that might mean that they need shrinking a little bit, maybe from 100% to 95%, it might mean that they notice that airlines now have realized that there is greater demand on this part of the world or these routes versus those routes so they want to ensure that they are better able to meet that demand.

36:46 [SPEAKER_00]: As a result, if anyone does have a long haul booking, [SPEAKER_00]: between late September or between September and next March and you receive notification of some form of change, don't fear the worst, it's probably and it's not probably, it's certainly what I just outlined, which is that it's a very different world with a very different jet fuel price and the demand and the global travel trends in terms of passenger flows have shifted dramatically and airlines will be right sizing to make sure that they [SPEAKER_00]: and also re accommodating those who had previously booked pre-war.

37:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So it doesn't mean there's going to be all out, you know, XYZ, but but it does mean that you may wake up to a notification to a booking that says, actually, where we were going to fly you at 7 a.m. That flight doesn't exist anymore and we're going to move you on to a 745 or an ATM or we're in the worst case scenario, perhaps the next day or maybe in a real worst case scenario.

37:45 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not serving that route anymore and they'll communicate that to you in a timely manner [SPEAKER_00]: this is a very different world. [SPEAKER_00]: And we, Dan, we're discussing how people need to understand whether there is an MOU, whether there is a signing, whether there is this peace agreement deal and so on, naturally everyone hopes for the best.

38:03 [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean that everything will bounce back into exactly the way that it was. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, airlines are climbing back towards 100% of that pre-war capacity, but it doesn't mean that they can operate in the same way for all of the reasons I just outlined. [SPEAKER_01]: For size three.

38:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, good point. [SPEAKER_01]: And when it comes to, I mean, just this morning, a video popped up in my feed, something along the lines of where back from Emirates. [SPEAKER_01]: And they did a reinterpretation of their iconic ad from the COVID era with an Emirates flight attendant standing on top of the Burj Khalifa.

38:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So, [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: This is a COVID style event for the Middle Eastern carriers and there is this, there is going to be this uncertainty with equipment swaps. [SPEAKER_01]: It's unfortunate, but to answer the question, it could be changed back to an E380 for sure depending on how demand picks up.

38:58 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, [SPEAKER_01]: So, we have another question here from Konstantinos, who says we discuss a few weeks here, we discussed airline consolidation and called tap and a GN, called sitting ducks. [SPEAKER_01]: What is our take on air Serbia? [SPEAKER_01]: They've returned to profitability and are expanding their network with strong profits and load factors yet they aren't part of any meaningful alliance.

39:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Are they in a attractive airline for big players and if so, who is most likely to purchase them? [SPEAKER_01]: He personally feels that they would be a great fit for one world given a gap in the region after Malav's closure, which I remember that. [SPEAKER_01]: That's like even though we were young back then.

39:46 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I remember buying the special edition of Elano World magazine with Malav on the front of it. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was like two by Malav. [SPEAKER_00]: I have that summer in the attic. [SPEAKER_01]: That's crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what do you think? [SPEAKER_00]: Valid, I mean, yeah, there are a few sitting ducks of Europe and an S.A.B., definitely is one of them.

40:07 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not in terms of... [SPEAKER_01]: They're not a huge airline, 30 aircrafts. [SPEAKER_00]: No, obviously. [SPEAKER_00]: No, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think we'll see a consolidation ahead anyway, and I think given the financial health of S.A.B., [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, here's a few things that we need to happen first.

40:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Firstly, it would need to be privatized, right? [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's the any kind of acquisition would require it to be to be private. [SPEAKER_00]: And because at the moment, it's still 100% owned by the Serbian government. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is after Eddie had sold the stake.

40:41 [SPEAKER_00]: You remember, Eddie had had a lot of involvement with that Serbia, until 2022 or 2023. [SPEAKER_00]: I do think it is inevitable that given that Bill Great is a fast-growing hub, [SPEAKER_00]: and given that a Serbia does feed traffic from like the bulk and states into Europe, North America, and so on.

41:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Lufthansa group will be all over that and we know that. [SPEAKER_00]: However, a Serbia may not want a foreign group controlling the national carrier and Lufthansa already dominates far too much as we know. [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe Turkish? [SPEAKER_00]: tech show. [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be strategic strong strong presence throughout the book.

41:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm thinking of my head. [SPEAKER_00]: It had a trusting thought. [SPEAKER_00]: I did. [SPEAKER_01]: There was a partner of S. Who did Turkish Airlines randomly bid for like last year? [SPEAKER_01]: There was something Turkish Airlines was making an unexpected move to uh, it was either tough or a Europa, no?

41:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I thought it was a Europa. [SPEAKER_00]: It was a Europa. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It was a Europa. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: That is. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, I would actually love to break up the three-player access with Turkish Airlines make-and-so-more moves because there is There is a bit of a vacuum in Eastern Europe because it's largely dominated by low-cost airlines [SPEAKER_01]: which is fine, but full of service airlines, yeah, there are not many who have hubs there.

42:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So Turkish, of course, carries a lot of people from Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, and the rest of former Yugoslavia to Istanbul to connect to the rest of the world. [SPEAKER_01]: But it would be interesting to see them operate. [SPEAKER_01]: are subsidiaries in the region for more point to point.

42:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that would be really cool. [SPEAKER_00]: So we're recording this on Monday and I'm a bit distracted because I'm looking at the screen right now and once again, as is almost a yearly occurrence now, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom is [SPEAKER_00]: the lectern is there, and it seems as we're recording this, he's about to step out and outline his resignation.

43:07 [SPEAKER_00]: This political, I don't think European leaders can hold on to anyone now for longer than five minutes. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, but especially the UK, it's like a little over you go. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's, that's pretty bad. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's hope the next Prime Minister legislates only 351,000.

43:27 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the kind that we're backing. [SPEAKER_01]: That is very important issue. [SPEAKER_00]: No aircraft, an aircraft cannot be owed to them. [SPEAKER_00]: the house said, well, no, actually because we're getting older now. [SPEAKER_00]: So it needs to be, yeah, it needs to be even less than that.

43:42 [SPEAKER_01]: We lost, gosh. [SPEAKER_01]: So final question for today from Luka who says, what do we think about this? [SPEAKER_01]: What do we think of the situation that could happen where Alaska and Hawaiian buy up or merge with JetBlue to grow their network, which could turn into the fourth [SPEAKER_01]: This is not something that is actively being discussed, as far as I'm aware, but I love the idea of it, because it would definitely create the most appealing US airline group to me, especially if [SPEAKER_01]: I see some issues there with this big grouping one world and American being one world two and that eventually leading to American needing to merge into that group or that group needing to merge into American, but It's definitely more preferable to me than one of the big three, especially United or American buying job blue.

44:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I agreed We'd like I think that would get for passengers as well, and then I you would love that [SPEAKER_01]: I would, and then Alaska and Hawaii would have a hubs on the east coast, it would just be perfect. [SPEAKER_01]: What a great scenario. [SPEAKER_00]: True. [SPEAKER_00]: True.

45:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, look, good to catch up. [SPEAKER_00]: Let us regroup. [SPEAKER_00]: Next week and please guys for free to send in your questions and we'll get to them as part of next week's episode and down I hope you feel better. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, time to rest up a bit Yeah, I'm just seeing that he's resigning right now That's seven different people holding the office of UK Prime Minister with in ten years Cameron may Johnson trust Rishi Starmer and then whoever the next guy's gonna be [SPEAKER_01]: I love how Richie gets the first name.

45:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know why I said that. [SPEAKER_00]: I think, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Because he's a billionaire or something. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I assume not good. [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway. [SPEAKER_00]: The, yeah, anyway, gosh, instability there. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we know that we know the deal.

45:46 [SPEAKER_00]: We legislate more through 50s and we're fine. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the kind of deal we're backing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we will see you guys next week on Air. [SPEAKER_01]: Bye-bye. [SPEAKER_00]: See you later.