The One Where Alex Goes To Brazil

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Dan, and I'm Alex, and welcome back to On Air, Bumsia. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Brazil! [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Brazil, it's the morning, how things... Like, I actually never thought I would hear those words coming out of your mouth. [SPEAKER_00]: I am in Brazil. [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone says come to Brazil, come to Brazil.

[SPEAKER_00]: Alex, came to Brazil. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm here. [SPEAKER_01]: I am. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean Brazil and also just to set the scene right you know I don't know if you have a play this game. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean probably not Probably not for some off-air No, no, I was going to say was you know when someone else see where are you from?

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you ever do you ever respond with guess? [SPEAKER_00]: I guess you can't because of your accent No, no, I can't but I now see where this is going So I always [SPEAKER_01]: if it's an informal setting and it's whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess. [SPEAKER_01]: And for some reason Brazil is always either number one, or number two, which is funny because I've never been here.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let it out. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm from here. [SPEAKER_00]: And my mind is blown. [SPEAKER_00]: Because it makes so much sense. [SPEAKER_00]: I now see exactly what those people are talking about. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, don't get me wrong. [SPEAKER_01]: If you just go, it's kind of in the car.

[SPEAKER_01]: Eponyma Beach, and I'm looking at the promenade and I was like, I guess there are quite a few people here that look similar to me. [SPEAKER_01]: But the differences, they're not wearing suit, they're kind of like coconut in one hand, they're barefoot on the road. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean there's a big Alex, no, no.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what is stereotyping Brazilians in the first two I am. [SPEAKER_01]: I am merely saying what I saw on that drive. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that was fair. [SPEAKER_00]: So, first of all, what has your experience been? [SPEAKER_00]: I have a million questions because [SPEAKER_00]: you be so the reason let's first talk about the reason you're there because you didn't just decide to go on vacation in Brazil right?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I decided to reconnect with long-lost brothers and sisters. [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I'm my roots so although I'm Greek I thought you know what? [SPEAKER_01]: Let's find a Brazilian part so you know you dig deep and then you take 22-hour journey in order no no of course I am hearing Brazil because Brazil [SPEAKER_01]: and specifically Latam are the hosts for this year's IARTA AGM and IARTA is the global association of airlines with a lot of regulation and policy in every year all of the IARTA airline members on all of them but most of them and there are now 300 plus members of IARTA.

[SPEAKER_01]: So all of the airlines gather for an AGM where they, it's policy-making, it's commitments, it's discussion, it's business deals, it's for everyone to be together under one roof and a bit like other, whether it's the Olympics or the Eurovision, no matter, you know, this is something that each year, it is announced that the following year, [SPEAKER_01]: ex-country will be hosting and the airline and an airline from that country will be hosting.

[SPEAKER_01]: So last year was in Delhi, India, it has been in previous years in Istanbul, Kankoon, Dahan Dubai, have had it, Amsterdam, Boston, JetBlue was the host. [SPEAKER_01]: And this year, 2026 edition, the host of the AGM, the global gathering of airline leaders, the most significant and prominent one of the calendar year.

[SPEAKER_01]: is Rio de Janeiro, and the host airline is the airline of Latin America Latam, so I made the 25-hour door to door to door, door to door, 25-hour journey from the Middle East [SPEAKER_01]: to Sao Paulo and then to Rhea Dishoniro where I'm speaking to you now with a coconut in hand and Betha.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that's the reality. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the reality. [SPEAKER_01]: Is a shame we're not turning on the camera for this episode because it just would have been a dream. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure. [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, first just your personal experience, what surprised you most of our Brazil?

[SPEAKER_00]: I have to know. [SPEAKER_01]: So there are a few things, I mean, there are things that surprised me about the journey here, of course, and I'll come to that. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the kind of a segment of it's own. [SPEAKER_01]: But what surprised me about Brazil so far? [SPEAKER_01]: Rio de Janeiro is just as laid back as I thought it would be, if not a bit more.

[SPEAKER_01]: Very, very. [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it's similar to... [SPEAKER_01]: Barley in that sense of the kind of just super Relaxed laid back beach culture everything I expected there so it's a no real surprises there Little bit surprised at how loud everything is Slash everyone right so [SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, the Middle East is really conservative when it comes to volume, like you can be in a restaurant, it's full and it's absolutely quiet.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then in Europe, of course, we've got the big buzzy, our fresco dining, sitting outside in Paris and Italy and Rome and all of that. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's loud and chatting, whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: But then that's kind of for that environment. [SPEAKER_01]: I feel that what I've noticed here is that even in either work, settings, or quiet, you know, hotel lounges, or quiet restaurants, that volume is loud, but I have Brazilian rent, so I know that the volume is perhaps a bit louder for those other nationalities.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there's that. [SPEAKER_01]: There's everything that everyone was talking to me about safety wise of course with Rio Rio has a pretty bad rep in terms of safety So anyone that knew I was going it was like oh my god be careful. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't do this. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't do that. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't do this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't do that. [SPEAKER_01]: It was just a long way to what not to do it. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like enjoy. [SPEAKER_00]: You were great. [SPEAKER_01]: you were great and my Brazilian friends were great as well in kind of explaining no they mean this no you wouldn't do that in that city so just don't do it here because it's very easy I mean just don't type in online is real safe because you you'll never get on an aircraft bound for real if you read everything that that's there I guess like anywhere it's just been being sensible there are scenarios where I could see in front of me that [SPEAKER_01]: could probably be a situation there.

[SPEAKER_01]: If, for example, you are walking around poolless with your phone out. [SPEAKER_01]: I think the phone snatching thing is very real. [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, that's quite well documented. [SPEAKER_01]: But otherwise, I think it's just about being sensible. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the, again, I'm quite guarded if I'm not in, for example, if you're walking along the street and someone just comes up and starts [SPEAKER_01]: and asking you of things, how do you behave?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that is always suspicious in the world. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Why are you talking to me, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I'm like, well, why are you talking to me? [SPEAKER_01]: You're from Rio, so God, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: So, so maybe I've been a bit guarded.

[SPEAKER_01]: compared with other cities, but maybe I'm just the same actually, because I wouldn't entertain that in Paris. [SPEAKER_01]: Or enjoy it or anywhere. [SPEAKER_00]: Or definitely, I don't stop in that. [SPEAKER_01]: Someone says, excuse me, I just keep walking. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, no, you can else someone else.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Every time I'm in London. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a scam. [SPEAKER_00]: I always get stopped. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: People are asking for directions. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, what? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: About me makes you think I know the direction.

[SPEAKER_01]: Google Maps, CityMapper, like, on you go, you know, it's not true. [SPEAKER_00]: Once with people asking directions, I mean, it's nice human interaction. [SPEAKER_00]: But like, it is. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: I know that I, there was one time, right? [SPEAKER_01]: I was in London for a few days.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I just finished a meeting at the Andas Hotel, Liverpool Street. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just next to the station. [SPEAKER_01]: So I come out of the Andas and I'm power walking because the train is in five minutes. [SPEAKER_01]: And as I'm powerking this this woman was like oh hello excuse me and I'm like keep walking Alex don't look it's a scam Right, yeah, I was like people getting she's like Alex Alex I saw you on TV last week I'm taking me if I'm back.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, you know, we're outside of train station I was just like no, you know, and she was like no, I just wanted to talk to you in a photo and blah, blah, blah So so [SPEAKER_01]: That was nice, but actually, yeah, I'd say, you know, we're pretty consistent in universally applying it, so that's not a real thing either.

[SPEAKER_01]: But what I have felt is that more people encourage or take up conversation here with someone they don't know compared with other cities. [SPEAKER_01]: And we're very well-traveled, and I've never been to Brazil, but I had a feeling it was going to be like that. [SPEAKER_01]: multiple multiple times and the whole time I'm thinking, what's the agenda here?

[SPEAKER_01]: Did they think I've got something in my pocket? [SPEAKER_01]: What's that? [SPEAKER_01]: But actually... [SPEAKER_00]: It's an American. [SPEAKER_00]: They were just the Americans. [SPEAKER_00]: Similar to Americans. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: Like especially like in the lift of things like that, you know, whatever, because that's a very American thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: When you just, you know, when I was last in the US, I'm in the lift and this American woman looked down at my suit shoes [SPEAKER_01]: Now, they don't look comfortable. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, you know, no, I'm just, it's the coax of America that would never happen in Europe. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: So no real surprises then in that sense. [SPEAKER_01]: No real surprises. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's winter here, but it's not winter, it's like 20. [SPEAKER_01]: three degrees in the day and it's beautiful. [SPEAKER_01]: It's something I see right? [SPEAKER_01]: Like no. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh wait, never mind, right, it is winter.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm, yeah, in my mind, it's still February. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's true. [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's June. [SPEAKER_00]: So there you go, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so going into it, it's going into it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like a God, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like I do. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought of that the other day.

[SPEAKER_01]: So no, yeah, no, it was celebrated, basically. [SPEAKER_00]: So you were at an event with basically all the world's airline CEOs in one room and what I mean, that was piece of fascinating just Observing people to see what is the interaction between these two people? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know it's a very hectic event and there's not really Nobody there is space to observe those interactions that there was people in [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because it's not, of course, I are to the event, it's invitation only, you can't just register to go.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so for that reason, it's not packed, so you do see those interactions, and it's so funny, because we know the context, we have a podcast discussing this stuff every single week. [SPEAKER_01]: We're both so on top of it, and then I'm like, all that talking about the toilets, you know, about different, you know, different airline leaders, and [SPEAKER_01]: So that's fascinating.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a social experiment in that sense as well. [SPEAKER_01]: And it also reminds me a bit of school. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I would say it's like because they're all bundled together for the family photo, like a G20, for example, or a G7, whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: So there's that. [SPEAKER_01]: There's watching the dynamics between there's also the whole who's not here.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Those who just have not done this. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess not [SPEAKER_01]: Michael O'Leary of Ryanair, super outspoken, but says the last thing, he would rather die than spend money on flying to Brazil in his, you know, I mean, being true of his cost-cutting nature and cost-preservation nature, so that's fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, but most, I mean, all the CEOs of the US carriers are here, everyone, whether it's JetBlue, CEO, Joanna to the US-3 in Delta, United and whatever, you have [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, all of the European LNCOs are here. [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone from Sean Doyle at British L.A., Luis at I.A.G., in the Netherlands, K.L.M., you have been Smith and Carstone, and they see how of E.T.

[SPEAKER_01]: Airways, and of Iberia, Air Serbia. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I didn't see the C.R. [SPEAKER_01]: of A.G.N. [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if they are here, not sure. [SPEAKER_01]: Chairman and leader of Turkish Airlines had a brief chat with him. [SPEAKER_01]: And then of course you got Latam who have been really, really good hosts.

[SPEAKER_01]: Latam has struck me as an airline with an excellent company culture. [SPEAKER_01]: I really can feel it amongst myself and I would be, I would really like if any of the listeners work at Latam. [SPEAKER_01]: if they could even just privately, just DM us on the shared Instagram out on air with down in addicts.

[SPEAKER_01]: If what I've picked up on is true, because I spoke to so many different members of staff at the time, they seem to love their jobs. [SPEAKER_01]: Their CEO Roberto comes across as a wonderful, level-headed, sensible guy with very relaxed, but as I said, just a wealth of common sense approach to lead to shit really enjoyed hearing from him, talking with him.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, of course, you have all the CEOs from the Asian cities, from across the African continent, Vanessa, CEO of Quantas, you have the other stakeholders of the, so they might not be an LNCO but you've got the manufacturers, the OEMs, you have the stakeholders, the consulting leaders and so on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Winnie Walsh, he is the director general currently of IRTA, the chief of IRTA. [SPEAKER_01]: He's leaving his position, so this was his last AGM, because he's taking on a new role as the CEO of Indigo, India's largest locust ever, from August. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was a little bit of a farewell for Willy, and I think that's going to be the case again later today.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: that people make the effort. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the funny part is, and we'll come to the journey here, but the funny part is, is someone made a joke saying that someone said, how is it feeling? [SPEAKER_01]: And you said, yeah, great. [SPEAKER_01]: It's been great to catch up with everyone.

[SPEAKER_01]: And all we do, everyone's just asking, every conversation is just, so how did you get here? [SPEAKER_01]: No, you spend the entire, you just go from one conversation to the other. [SPEAKER_01]: all sharing notes on how you arrive to Rio and also then the inevitable when are you going back?

[SPEAKER_01]: How are you going back and so on? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because let's face it. [SPEAKER_01]: For most people, this is a journey. [SPEAKER_01]: Right, it is. [SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking about that with Ernie Zillin's CEO, because I was like, if you want to fly his own metal, like at least part of the journey, he needs to go up to the US.

[SPEAKER_00]: I checked the only way he could go with even one stop. [SPEAKER_00]: partly on his own metal and on Ernie Zelens' partners would be through Houston, which is a crazy journey in detour, or he could have fun with one stop on Lottam, but that's not Star Alliance. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can imagine that's really fun. [SPEAKER_00]: So tell us about your journey too. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lady, you know, I regret that I have forgotten her name. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I didn't take her business card or anything, I did tell her, but she introduced herself as a listener from [SPEAKER_01]: And she said, and I hope if she's listening to this, she can go and touch.

[SPEAKER_01]: I said, so how did you? [SPEAKER_01]: She said she really enjoys the podcast and actually Dan, let me just say now that this is the most I've ever had. [SPEAKER_01]: People come up and say, they listen to the podcast and they love it, which is really nice. [SPEAKER_01]: There was a minimum since I've been here so far about 20, 22 different people have come up to say, Hi, whether I'm, and by the way, I'm talking executives from Iata, [SPEAKER_01]: people that work for our lines, they're all been coming up and just quickly whether it's on the escalating, the bathroom or whatever, so I'll listen to the podcast and really enjoy which is really really nice to hear.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the lady from Malaysia, let me come to that point, I said to her, how did you get here? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm stick with me, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: If I remember correctly, she flew from KL to Australia and then did Sydney, [SPEAKER_01]: New Zealand with Latam. [SPEAKER_01]: You know the one to to Santiago.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, stop sign New Zealand doesn't yet. [SPEAKER_01]: So she did. [SPEAKER_01]: So which city New Zealand does that operate via? [SPEAKER_01]: Must be Auckland. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can't be anywhere. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So, so she did Sydney Auckland Santiago Rio. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's crazy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Could have even been Santiago Sa Palo and then Rio. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure. [SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, there were some journeys. [SPEAKER_01]: It was interesting to hear my journey was long enough. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that was the other side of the earth. [SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, I saw next year it's in Shaman, China, which is another topic, but that is so, so cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, anyway, tell us, and easier to get to. [SPEAKER_00]: A lot easier to get to, but tell us about your journey there. [SPEAKER_00]: You, yeah, what do you want to say about it? [SPEAKER_01]: So it really straightforward to find like nice non-stop direct 16 hour flight with Katar from Doha to Sao Paulo.

[SPEAKER_01]: The difficulty of the morning flight very real. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean the fact it's daylight, the whole way is not, you know, you're awake for 16 hours. [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't sleep not for a minute on that flight. [SPEAKER_01]: So once we landed, yeah, we were actually texting when we're doing the flight and I said like this is [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel tired because I'd already slept, which is fine, and also body clock wise, it's okay not to sleep if Sir Paolo is your end, you know, destination, but then I started to feel tired like the last two hours of the flight, my body knew it's evening time, it's time to sleep, whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: Fine, so flight was good, food, excellent, crew, wonderful, very very light load to be honest in business a superfall in economy, but there are three flights a day now to São Paulo, so it's definitely built back as part of this restoration, and the CEO tells me that demand is very strong, and São Paulo is an example of that going to something like 18 weeks.

[SPEAKER_01]: So flight's good, [SPEAKER_01]: sunset. [SPEAKER_01]: It was about 5.36 pm. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I have to connect and transit from the international side where I'm an international arrival and go over to the domestic terminal. [SPEAKER_01]: But before that, I have to collect luggage, go through immigration, go through immigration, collect luggage, and even though my bag was tagged to Rio, you have to collect your luggage at the first port of entry to Brazil.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, so, probably I was at first port of entry. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I told you, [SPEAKER_01]: Do you find that most people you speak to? [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Any of our travel globally, let's not go to Korea, let's not go to wherever. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, people in the airline business, if I said, oh, have you been here before?

[SPEAKER_01]: The answer is always yes. [SPEAKER_01]: For people in the airline business, aviation, the world is tiny. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's rice. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: More people than ever responded with no that never been here to Brazil. [SPEAKER_01]: Whether they were European, Asian, African, don't know, first time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you think that is? [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, I don't know, what's the, but if you're definitely a pattern I've noticed. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a niche vacation destination. [SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like everyone knows people from Brazil. [SPEAKER_00]: They know people have gone to Brazil, obviously.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's always like a specific type of, I feel like South America attracts a very specific type of traveler who prefers that vibe over going to Asia, for example, or Africa. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like each continent has its official autos. [SPEAKER_00]: Asia is obviously the most popular with Europeans and then for people from the, even people from the US, much more will go to Europe and Asia than beyond Central America, at least in the Caribbean.

[SPEAKER_00]: right you're you're so right and it but I do know so how many hundred like yeah to them it's like South America's everything even if they're European it's like yeah I will not go anywhere on vacation besides South America that is the place. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I agree. [SPEAKER_01]: I do know people that are absolutely committed and it's like they tell everyone I say you're crazy for not loving this continent or you're free to try this.

[SPEAKER_00]: So much to see. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I need to. [SPEAKER_01]: How many times have you been to Brazil and what would you typically go for? [SPEAKER_00]: I've been to Brazil, at least twice, maybe three times.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, most, so the first time was a real trip. [SPEAKER_00]: We spent three weeks traveling across the whole country. [SPEAKER_00]: We went to Sao Paulo, Rio, Salvador, Fos de Guazu, loads of cool places, [SPEAKER_00]: And then the subsequent times were actually transit, so Brazil is, well, transit where we left the airport, I should say, because I don't count transit just in the airport is visiting a country, but Brazil is obviously the big hub in Latin America, so it's funny that a lot of people had such a journey to get there.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're going to, let's say Bolivia, or to Paraguay, some of the Brazil is very handy for transit there on goal, for example. [SPEAKER_01]: So very well connected compared with the other Latin Americans say, right? [SPEAKER_00]: It is not a very well connected continent flying is extreme.

[SPEAKER_00]: extremely expensive within South America, unfortunately. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it's fun also because South Palo is one of those rare cities that has three pretty major airports. [SPEAKER_00]: One is in a neighboring city, but it sort of functions as [SPEAKER_00]: a third airport for Sao Paulo because Azul has their hub there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've flown to all of them. [SPEAKER_00]: It is so fun. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not geek. [SPEAKER_00]: When you get to taste the different airports and different airlines in a place like that. [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I mean, it's true that way more people should explore South America is just that it's very often in the same way as Australia and New Zealand.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's never on the way anywhere. [SPEAKER_00]: It's never like, oh, [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no [SPEAKER_01]: of both America's and the larger city of the southern hemisphere.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: It's huge. [SPEAKER_01]: The state of São Paulo, you're talking 46 plus million residents, right? [SPEAKER_01]: But the, that's just the state. [SPEAKER_01]: The, [SPEAKER_01]: I guess, I mean, the significance of Sapphola as a hub can't be understated, which brings me to my next point.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I imagine I'm transiting at this, you know, the hub of Latin America. [SPEAKER_01]: a continent, South America, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And I collect that immigration was absolutely as if like, you know, when it's just so easy when you're from that country, I'm not from Brazil, but immigration show made me feel like I was.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, they saw you and they were like, welcome home. [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome home, buddy. [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome home. [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, I'll put a guard on. [SPEAKER_01]: I was on my way. [SPEAKER_01]: It took about 10 seconds. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, which is great. [SPEAKER_01]: Because I think it's super.

[SPEAKER_01]: My friend said to me that Brazil have no business trying to keep anyone out. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's nice. [SPEAKER_01]: So immigration, you know, it was a welcome home bag straight away. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I start noticing, and this is an odd terminal. [SPEAKER_01]: This is kind of the kind of low ceiling.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then we go to, we're walking in these like, how can I put these politely dungeons towards the, towards the domestic terminal, where it all started to change. [SPEAKER_01]: Everything started to get darker, a bit more awful. [SPEAKER_01]: Dirtyer, for everything from bad smells to bad, [SPEAKER_01]: It was awful, nobody told me, I'm sorry, what a dump.

[SPEAKER_01]: The domestic side of São Paulo airport. [SPEAKER_01]: I've just come from a big international transfer and I'm connecting to the domestic terminal where I can fly all across Brazil. [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, the number of... [SPEAKER_01]: Hold on, let's make sure that I am accurate. [SPEAKER_01]: Number of airports across Brazil.

[SPEAKER_01]: airports, as in for commercial use, right, 3600 for private. [SPEAKER_01]: It's, you know, this is a vast operation when you look at the departure board. [SPEAKER_01]: It isn't, I did half expect it to be sappalo, sappalo, sappalo, sappalo, sappalo, sappalo, sappalo, sappalo, sappalo, it wasn't at all, you know, it was everywhere, right, all of the other Brazilian cities that that have such intense and and rely on air travel.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that given that left [SPEAKER_01]: and listeners might remember that the term is the merged outcome. [SPEAKER_01]: of what was land, land, L-A-N, and time of Brazil. [SPEAKER_01]: They merged to become the South American powerhouse. [SPEAKER_01]: I liked that because I really liked land.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tamm was okay, but I liked land, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And just competition, two global airlines is always more... [SPEAKER_01]: Always better than one, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, you just reminded me of Tony Douglas and his latest interview, he said, we're not getting, what did he say?

[SPEAKER_00]: He said, [SPEAKER_01]: We're not getting one, seven, eight, seven today. [SPEAKER_01]: We're getting two. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, okay, you know. [SPEAKER_01]: It's good. [SPEAKER_01]: Use a show. [SPEAKER_01]: He really is. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway. [SPEAKER_01]: Have you, uh, I'm assuming then you've transit bias.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've had it because this is what you have to do if you're flying, let's And so all my friends who I know it. [SPEAKER_01]: I are to whether they were coming from companies like Airbus or they were friends in the media world But they're writing for the big publications. [SPEAKER_01]: They're those from Italy from Poland from Spain [SPEAKER_01]: These are all countries with direct nonstop flights to Rio, but because of their term, were the hosts of the I.R.T.R.G.M.

[SPEAKER_01]: Latam are responsible for bringing almost all attendees from wherever they are, you know, their closest gateway into Rio. [SPEAKER_01]: And that means even though there are nonstop direct options to Rio, forcing everyone to come via Sappalo. [SPEAKER_01]: So pretty much everyone went through this, and it was definitely a consensus.

[SPEAKER_01]: People were like, wow, that was shocking. [SPEAKER_01]: That needs work. [SPEAKER_01]: For an airline built around Transiting in Saip Hello, that domestic area was horrendous and after 17 hours after an almost 17 hour flight. [SPEAKER_01]: And now we had been traveling for 20 hours. [SPEAKER_01]: I just, it was a sensory overload.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was packed. [SPEAKER_01]: It was dark and dingy. [SPEAKER_01]: It was loud. [SPEAKER_01]: I was over it. [SPEAKER_01]: I was tired and hungry. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was awful. [SPEAKER_01]: It was dirty. [SPEAKER_01]: It was, yeah, I mean, this is [SPEAKER_00]: It's so interesting because it's very often the case.

[SPEAKER_00]: I find that the domestic terminal is just neglected. [SPEAKER_00]: The international terminal, as you probably noticed, is quite nice. [SPEAKER_00]: It was nice. [SPEAKER_01]: I did that last year. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: The international terminal. [SPEAKER_01]: I saw it and yeah, it looks good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but yeah, the domestic North Great and this is Brazil is one of those countries like the U.S. where you don't have an option but flying if you want to get to a lot of places there's four hour or four hour plus domestic flights within this country just from South Paulo, let alone from the south of Brazil.

[SPEAKER_00]: So [SPEAKER_00]: air connectivity is so important and you know we often talk about how sometimes the infrastructure is not really there to support it even when aviation is so essential if you think about the U.S. most airports there are not supporting they don't show how essential air travel is let's say that [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, and let's also not understate the importance like of the value of their transport to Brazil.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's over 2% of GDP. [SPEAKER_01]: It supports about 2 million jobs. [SPEAKER_01]: It's 47 million US dollars in contribution to GDP. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a massive industry supported by all the other industries that feed into aviation. [SPEAKER_01]: but it delivers all the benefits that a country like Brazil rely on, it's a big cargo market of course, but it is mostly domestic.

[SPEAKER_01]: So for for for, indeed passenger departures, the share of domestic travel is significant and let me in fact I have got this. [SPEAKER_01]: So international traffic is only 13%. [SPEAKER_01]: It's it's it's overwhelming majority the most popular cities in excuse me. [SPEAKER_01]: That was a phone call the most popular cities From Brazil when I saw this so a neighbor Santiago and a but and then of course Lisbon the big link there So that's it and then you've got like Miami or land on New York Paris London and so on but it's It's prominent and I I'm just surprised that [SPEAKER_00]: Go start in trouble.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is also such an interesting example of how a country like Brazil when you only have one big airline like Latam I mean they have other big domestic airlines or airlines that fly to a few international places, but [SPEAKER_00]: they are so reliant on international airlines, particularly top, as you said.

[SPEAKER_00]: Top doesn't only fly to São Paulo, they fly to over a dozen cities in Brazil, they'll connect you from Europe to Rio, to Salvador, to receive it, to Natal, to Forte Leza, so so many places. [SPEAKER_00]: where I vary as well. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but particularly top because of the the right relationship.

[SPEAKER_00]: The links. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And if you look at the North East Coast, I guess of Brazil, there's so many big cities there where if it weren't for top, [SPEAKER_00]: they would have to fly several hours backwards to south-hallow and then go to Europe. [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think this is an ideal situation for a country to be in in terms of connectivity relying on international airlines to fill that void, but it's always interesting when this happens because Brazil is not the only country where this is the case, but it is fun to think about.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely. [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, with that in mind, I think it's just even more reason for the domestic side of things and the transit experience to improve because it's not less than like it. [SPEAKER_01]: That wasn't a good look that everyone was kind of discussing it. [SPEAKER_01]: Some people took to it to say, wow, that experience wasn't was dire.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I had a gate change three times. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, fine, that's not anything to complain about. [SPEAKER_01]: These are the complexities of aviation and where the aircraft is coming in. [SPEAKER_01]: But then I had a remote stand, bus gate. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was, now, now at this point, I've been traveling for so long.

[SPEAKER_01]: Downstairs, it was chaos. [SPEAKER_01]: We're four flights, boarding at the same time, all the cues were merging. [SPEAKER_01]: And now, imagine this, right? [SPEAKER_01]: I like to think that we're pretty sharp individuals, especially when it comes to aviation and air travel. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Making my way downtown, walking fast, right, ready for group one building because I'm one world Emerald. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I get the stock reminder that of course Latam exit one world years ago. [SPEAKER_01]: There is no one world emerald benefits here sir. [SPEAKER_01]: You are not in Kansas, and I'm like, well, oh shit, terrible, terrible.

[SPEAKER_01]: How are they not in an alliance? [SPEAKER_00]: Hounds not being in alliances is the worst. [SPEAKER_00]: That's nice. [SPEAKER_01]: I know I said to the CEO of whatever, I said to the CEO and I can't come to my conversation with him in a minute. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, bull did chaos, bull did a bus chaos.

[SPEAKER_01]: One thing I will hand to let him. [SPEAKER_01]: I begin to understand now how that OTP is so excellent there on time performance. [SPEAKER_01]: I understand how they will win the award every year of different companies and agencies that monitor on time performance. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's ham flights leave on time because boy-o-boy are the rumours true, do they?

[SPEAKER_01]: Board early. [SPEAKER_01]: A European airline would never. [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, British Airways, like 10 minutes before departure. [SPEAKER_01]: They haven't started yet. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, uh, just Latin Americans are infamously late all the time, I guess. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, boarding was just open forever.

[SPEAKER_01]: People were joining at that leisure. [SPEAKER_01]: It was great. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was, um, [SPEAKER_01]: I've heard this before, but genuinely we were boarding an hour before, boarding an A320 for a 35-minute domestic flight. [SPEAKER_01]: An hour before, that was, you know, that's cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't mind that. [SPEAKER_01]: So, uh... [SPEAKER_01]: boarded we were on a factory fresh a through 20 neo super lucky there kind of lucked out with that beautifully I mean it was in there it was it was in Airbus at the facility in France just months ago that was great fresh nice trimming finished good customer [SPEAKER_01]: Definition, the cabin definition, sorry, lovely mood lighting, nice little decal, nice little details everywhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: Really good. [SPEAKER_01]: I was in premium economy, which I think BA club Europe should re-brand too, because it sets expectations lower. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's in premium economy, which was nice with an empty middle seat and nothing more, just like a BA experience or an air France business experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that was good, and we referred to by name, which was nicely little details like that, so they, yeah, that's an amazing, yeah, no, the crew are great. [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, for as bad as the grand experience was of Latam, the moment I bought it, I was like, this is a premium carrier.

[SPEAKER_01]: It really did feel the crew were wonderful. [SPEAKER_01]: They were super, super. [SPEAKER_01]: Everything was organized. [SPEAKER_01]: I have to respect as well the passenger demographic. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I thought it was only the Brits that Q great. [SPEAKER_01]: They were killing very orderly.

[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't always happen. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, especially not, for example, when a bus arrives, I mean, I'm, I'm greedy. [SPEAKER_01]: I can say it. [SPEAKER_01]: When a bus pulled up at the aircraft a few weeks ago in Greece, every it was a free for all, and I'm like, why can't you just Q?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that queue was very civilised, boarding, no fuss. [SPEAKER_01]: I did have to, and if any of the passengers, I'm going to adopt listening to the podcast. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, it's a bit of a stretch. [SPEAKER_01]: There's so many people in Brazil, but let's see. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I did have one little thing, which wasn't a, let's have a thing, it was an air travel thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, I opened the locker, and it's full, and I opened the other locker, and it's full. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's full of tiny women's handbags, and [SPEAKER_01]: a smaller backpack and everything that should be under the seat so it's like one big locker a bag plunked in the middle locker closed another one closed so I'm opening the locker and now I'm the guy holding everyone up because there's no way to put in an actual cabin bag that needs to be in the locker so I take out the woman's handbag I'm looking for the woman is this your bag she's like oh yeah my [SPEAKER_01]: Give it to her under the sea and I'm pointing to the sea.

[SPEAKER_01]: Take her and then I'll take it. [SPEAKER_01]: Then this is another bag. [SPEAKER_01]: I said, who's this? [SPEAKER_01]: And this guy's like, mine, I'm like, then why is it here? [SPEAKER_01]: If you're in the third row. [SPEAKER_01]: There you go. [SPEAKER_00]: That's how people become anti-immigrant.

[SPEAKER_01]: like this great guy just coming along for an hour listen it was an interest of a fish and boarding right three bags that shouldn't have been in there they were small they were perfect front of the seat and they were not even in that cabin third bag I turn them like whose bag is this place but I think when you [SPEAKER_01]: when you do speak a bit assertive and not, you know, without kind of, they just aren't so he was like, it's mine.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's okay. [SPEAKER_01]: This is small, so it's supposed to go into the sea because it's the, it's the roll of bags that have to be put in the locker otherwise they roll of bags. [SPEAKER_01]: Come on, let's see, that's the policy. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so it was a full house, three out of three, super-compliant.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I go from that bag, put up my bag, put up my neighbor's bag, you know, close the locker now, it's four, as it should be sitting down, boarding continues, super-efficient, I'm like, okay, yeah, I do also. [SPEAKER_01]: you know, I was not tired. [SPEAKER_00]: So I also saw a picture of you on the flight and you did look a little bit like a gang and first.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, that was off. [SPEAKER_01]: That was only after my mask on because that was a call behind me who was coughing and sneezing and I was like, not today. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a busy week. [SPEAKER_01]: No, but a mask on and was a bit. [SPEAKER_01]: I was just a bit tired at that point.

[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, let's hammer great. [SPEAKER_01]: Flight was great, 35 minutes, super short, smooth, well informed by the flight deck. [SPEAKER_01]: Really slick sharp, like there, announcements like the interaction between the staff and all passengers, let's hand play and Wi-Fi service was okay, not amazing, but does a matter of short flight.

[SPEAKER_01]: Landed ahead of schedule, jet bridge at Rio, Rio, the terminal at Kig, Rio because it didn't apply to the Santos unfortunately. [SPEAKER_01]: That was great. [SPEAKER_01]: That was super nice, kind of like a Asian terminal, absolutely fine, much better felt, much better than Zapata, had been travelling now for a [SPEAKER_01]: 20 to or so hours, maybe approaching the 23rd hour had been a wake for that long as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then finally, did the drive to Ipanima Beach, which was about just under an hour from the terminal, checked into the hotel, and then I'm like standing there looking at my luggage. [SPEAKER_01]: It's now midnight local time, it's one AM local time, it's been well over 24 hours since I left my apartment, and you know, I don't know if [SPEAKER_01]: and maybe listeners who travel solo a lot will relate to this, but I do speak out loud to myself in the host scenarios, so I'm not extending staring at my bag saying, okay Alex, you don't need to unpack.

[SPEAKER_01]: you just need to get up, you know, your toiletry bag, pajamas, shower, and go to bed. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's all gonna be fine and make sense in the morning. [SPEAKER_00]: And it was. [SPEAKER_00]: It was. [SPEAKER_00]: That must've been so funny. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm glad the trip there went well.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is exhausting. [SPEAKER_00]: The one-hour car drive on top of that is just the last. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the final thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: And you are exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: So let me take you through some of the like the airline gas what's happening in the airline world, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So Willy Walsh, the current CEO of IR to the chief IR to the column of the DG, he's out because he's going to indigo, fine. [SPEAKER_01]: And there is... [SPEAKER_01]: complete talk of who is going to, um, who's going to take his place. [SPEAKER_01]: And there are, I mean, the rumor mill was right there.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is expected that Peter Elbers wants the job, uh, although he was telling everyone, people were asking Peter Elbers, uh, why are you here? [SPEAKER_01]: because of course he's not into go anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: So what are you doing here as an airline chief? [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, you know, I have some business, I'm supporting, I'd like to keep a low profile.

[SPEAKER_01]: No pictures, please. [SPEAKER_01]: Kurt, I could friend, Kurt asked him for voting him. [SPEAKER_01]: He said, I would like to keep a low profile. [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone was just laughing, saying, you are here because you are a candidate. [SPEAKER_01]: You want the top job of Ayata. [SPEAKER_01]: And Ayata is a very prominent and important role for the aviation sector.

[SPEAKER_01]: of a sitting kind of like a bar of all airlines in policy making or what not. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of that's there. [SPEAKER_01]: It got announced that we that the next IR to AGM is in Shaman. [SPEAKER_01]: So the the host airline is Shaman, which is interesting because [SPEAKER_01]: they also barely fly anywhere so they flew to Dahantil the war started I spoke with the team and they are going to be returning to Dahantil so imagine a lot will come through Dahantil they fly [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Europe is that that footprint is very weak.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's, I mean, I know they fight at Amsterdam. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure about it. [SPEAKER_00]: Have you flown this? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I flew them in first class. [SPEAKER_00]: Was that the video? [SPEAKER_00]: That's the video I talked to. [SPEAKER_01]: So was that the first class video where it was wide and there were a bunch of amenities.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: It was just a first class experience in London. [SPEAKER_00]: And I've had. [SPEAKER_00]: And that show in Airlines. [SPEAKER_00]: Shaman Airport is so fun, Shaman is crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: The five star top hotel brands are less than a hundred dollars a night in Shaman.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess they'll go up during the Ayada EGM, but so fun, I want to come. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm putting it out there. [SPEAKER_01]: You shared, you shared, you shared and it would be a good opportunity. [SPEAKER_01]: We can welcome that. [SPEAKER_01]: The, I mean, Shaman is a member of Sky Team.

[SPEAKER_01]: you know, relying on a lot of their Sky Team members to do the first part of the journey for those coming from afar, because while they fly to over 100 destinations across Asia, well, Asia, Australia, and so on, that footprint in Europe is pretty weak, but I think everyone will just be flown to that to those gateways.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's that. [SPEAKER_01]: I had a very good chat with the CEO [SPEAKER_01]: He spoke to me about what he's seeing with Boeing, and that's what I was interested in. [SPEAKER_01]: So Roberto Alvo has been the CEO of the group of Latam Airlines since March 2020, since the COVID basically, and there's also a responsible for kind of successfully never go to the airline through the chapter 11 restructuring, expanding the network, [SPEAKER_01]: He took the chairman ship at this year's I utter as the host, of course, the interesting thing he said to me, which I wanted to come to you about, is he said to me, and I took some notes, that Boeing is genuinely in a better place.

[SPEAKER_01]: He said there is real progress, there is real commitment to go further, and that he shares the [SPEAKER_01]: idea, he shares the opinion of every other LNCO that has complimented it, growing being a good place, but he does it from first-hand experience that they have been real, significant improvements, and they are not rushing, but rather they are doing it right under the newly leadership of Stephanie Pope.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Kelly Allberg, he says he feels very positive about it, he did say to me, he's never had a Boeing 787 delivered on time. [SPEAKER_01]: He said that's just the reality of the situation, he said, and he doesn't know if he ever will. [SPEAKER_01]: But, but that they are genuinely in a better place and this bodes well for next year's Boeing 777 and then the further stream of 787s that are going to hit the market at so many islands everywhere as they look for fleet renewal.

[SPEAKER_01]: He noted that South America is going to grow the most in the next 30 years and it's also to do with infrastructure development that he hopes is going to get better across the board. [SPEAKER_01]: He said that they are assessing destinations all the time because of course, they have no footprint They have no footprint in the fastest growing markets such as India China all of these powerhouses [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, the only place they fly to in Asia is Australia, which I'll give you please.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's Australia, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So the gap there is monumental and so I wanted to kind of better understand as to why is it a [SPEAKER_01]: financial decision to this field for its bad economics. [SPEAKER_01]: It does seem there are little constraint by the delta partial ownership.

[SPEAKER_01]: In that they can't be in one world, they can't really partner up with the one more dominant carriers that could help them with Asia flows. [SPEAKER_01]: But he did say that they are actively assessing [SPEAKER_01]: a potential non-stop to Asia. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's slightly constrained by aircraft type as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it does seem to be the gap for their trying to work. [SPEAKER_01]: Right, and so that's the issue. [SPEAKER_01]: Remember that the group is a mix of Latam, Peru, Latam, Chile, Latam, Brazil, Latam, Colombia, Ecuador, and Paraguay. [SPEAKER_01]: So it is this group [SPEAKER_01]: But what I really admired is he is forensically focused on consistency.

[SPEAKER_01]: He does know that it's an almost identical experience, whether you are flying and he said between Rio and Sao Paulo or you're flying from Lima to another state of the South American continent. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the Latam experience. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that Apple's great, their emails were great, their communication were great.

[SPEAKER_01]: It all just struck me as really slick and a great example. [SPEAKER_01]: for other airlines. [SPEAKER_01]: So that was good. [SPEAKER_01]: But the Asia thing seems unusual. [SPEAKER_01]: I said to him, I mean, where are you assessing that you actually? [SPEAKER_01]: Where are you properly assessing?

[SPEAKER_01]: He said to me, well, finally enough, I was in Greece for two weeks holiday a couple last month. [SPEAKER_01]: I said, okay, he was like, and I was thinking, that could be good, because of course they fly to Italy, so it's just a little further. [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe we'll get the time in Greece before they pop up in Asia.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I wonder, that gap can't be, you know, left for too long. [SPEAKER_01]: They have code share partners. [SPEAKER_01]: There are flows, but I do think they need to be in an alliance. [SPEAKER_01]: I can't move away from that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wish everyone be in an alliance. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that, yes, we've seen success stories.

[SPEAKER_00]: Emirates and Etihad, for example, managing without. [SPEAKER_00]: But for example, just look at the news this week. [SPEAKER_00]: The Philippine Airlines is joining one world. [SPEAKER_01]: So that happened while I was there. [SPEAKER_01]: So they announced that Philippine Airlines is joining one world, which is fantastic news across the board.

[SPEAKER_01]: But also, wow, another Asian career in one world. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so close to cafe and Japan Airlines. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's pretty much a... Starlux wants to join. [SPEAKER_01]: And Starlux that wants to join by apparently being blocked. [SPEAKER_01]: So that was another point I was going to come to.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was a very interesting development from the AGM [SPEAKER_01]: I spotted Philippine crew in uniform walking from the bathrooms to an event and I was like, why are they here? [SPEAKER_01]: Because there's not really many events that take place. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like an air show where they're signings, where you bring crew.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, okay, they're announcing something and then the one mode, uh, uh, Billboard was going up in one of the conference rooms. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, okay, could this be? [SPEAKER_01]: And it was. [SPEAKER_01]: So they're joining one mode. [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think about [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's so exciting, and it's an example of what you're saying that joining an alliance immediately makes an airline see more legit.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that for a fact, because if you look at the likes of Egypt there, one of their [SPEAKER_00]: feeling of legitimacy or like this might be an airline I want to fly to me is that they're in star alliance. [SPEAKER_00]: If they were not in star alliance, they would be ignored. [SPEAKER_00]: Philippine airlines for a long time has been viewed as a second tier Asian airline.

[SPEAKER_00]: Manila airport is not in a good state. [SPEAKER_00]: You would find South howlose domestic terminal heaven in comparison, I think, but [SPEAKER_00]: The fact that they're joining not only any alliance, but one world I think immediately elevates them and makes the more appealing and I am pretty sure this will be a good outcome for them.

[SPEAKER_01]: What else was the consensus amongst their lan leaders? [SPEAKER_01]: They all feel that Jeff fuel will continue to be a problem, but specifically they're worried about a shortage from September onwards. [SPEAKER_01]: They feel that the legacy, so there was a lot of sentiment from Ben Smith and Carson.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're suddenly wanting the slice of the cake, that the golf carries have had for so long and they can't stop. [SPEAKER_01]: Thinking about it. [SPEAKER_01]: That was they didn't stop talking about how they're now carrying passengers between Asia and Europe nonstop And this is what they expect to continue and even when the Gulf carriers bounce back which they are They they want to hold on to this and they're looking at making sure of that and whatever way They can that was interesting that was sentiment there could up with Ivan from Rwanda Rwanda They're still waiting for the deal to go through The new airport and the steak from Qatar and so on so that's that the [SPEAKER_01]: the worries about demand were kind of, you know, demand is strong, but every airline leader I spoke to agreed that the price of their travel was about to go up.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's inevitable. [SPEAKER_01]: The cost of fuel was too high and fuel is the biggest overhead for any airline. [SPEAKER_01]: And there is no end in sight for the situation in the Middle East. [SPEAKER_01]: And even if it does end tomorrow, even if it [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to take months and months, and it's an aviation it trickles down much later.

[SPEAKER_01]: So next year, air travel will be more expensive across the board. [SPEAKER_01]: That was the consensus. [SPEAKER_00]: The one thing I liked that I saw in an interview, the one positive comment on price was Antonella, the CEO of, yes, at the end of the year. [SPEAKER_00]: He said, in his opinion, I based on the data, prices between Europe and Asia are inflated above the level that they should be, and he predicts they have to come down.

[SPEAKER_00]: Etihad is doing their part and bringing them down, which we all appreciate, not out of generosity, of course. [SPEAKER_01]: But, no, I mean, look, it's hard to answer now, and I spoke with them to now, don't. [SPEAKER_01]: More than a couple of times, well, since we've been here, and the thing is, [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they are really dumping fairs low, like fairs are really low.

[SPEAKER_01]: People are showing that they're able to book from the UK to Bangkok for less than 300 pounds. [SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy low with that head. [SPEAKER_01]: He kind of admits in some interviews that it's happening. [SPEAKER_01]: He said to me that he was like, look, we have to get the word out that things are back to normal in the golf.

[SPEAKER_01]: He said that they're worried about the travel advisories, they're a real concern because they invalidate insurance, right when governments are saying don't go here. [SPEAKER_01]: So for corporate travel, that's a bit of a worry, but he said that the average person he said to me, [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't really care about that and they're just driven by price so they're doing that bit by lowering the price significantly.

[SPEAKER_01]: He also said that that pricing is purely matched on competition. [SPEAKER_01]: He kept saying, what the competition are doing, what the competition are doing. [SPEAKER_01]: Now I know this in the industry, the Etty had 10s just follow, however, Qatar and Emirates are pricing and then tried to be $20 less than that in order to [SPEAKER_01]: to win the passenger, but that fairs are on sustainably low at the moment, and that's not sustainable going forward.

[SPEAKER_01]: It does fill up his aircraft and it does drive up his load factor, but not profitably, and whether those flights are breaking even as a whole other question. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a bit of a question mark there. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is, it is a tough situation, but it's, it's crazy looking at the prices of going between Europe and Asia now.

[SPEAKER_00]: You'll remember as well as I before COVID flying for $1,300, $1,400 round trip in business on the likes of Qatar was not unusual. [SPEAKER_00]: Those deals were around all the time. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, good luck if you find it. [SPEAKER_00]: anything for less than 2,500, that's not a sale or a super business light kind of thing, and it's sad because this is in business, but yeah, the fairs are really hurting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, fairs are going to creep up across the board because of the fuel price, which is not sustainable. [SPEAKER_01]: The US carriers that I spoke to, the leaders of the US carriers, [SPEAKER_01]: work concerned that the IRTA AGM is in China next year. [SPEAKER_01]: That was funny.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because, of course, they just had to go with Trump on the state visit and they were all those, you know, where they had to leave everything they were gifted in a trash can at the bottom of Air Force One stairs. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you see that? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So everyone that a company Trump, they had to, [SPEAKER_01]: Um, Oh, it's biode them to the u.s. Yeah, so they were not so pleased about that, but that's a very US thing and Had a good conversation with the CEO JetBlue [SPEAKER_01]: and JetBlue are doing some exciting things over the coming months, assuming they are still with us.

[SPEAKER_00]: The genius is surviving. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the most exciting thing for me. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they were telling me about a few players I was thinking, okay, fine, they're like, that might not be an ex-oic, but I'm hopeful that they are because they're love JetBlue. [SPEAKER_01]: And so the best U.S. carrier, the best U.S. carrier, by far.

[SPEAKER_01]: So all in all, it was predominantly about the situation [SPEAKER_01]: Fares will be higher next year. [SPEAKER_01]: The jet fuel price is unsustainably high and the shortage concerns return for September with West Africa and Scandinavia. [SPEAKER_01]: Your neck of the woods doing all they can to try to replace.

[SPEAKER_01]: What would typically be flowing out of the Gulf Kuwait-Barraine Saudi and so on through the straight-of-homers which remains closed concerns there. [SPEAKER_01]: The European carriers are getting greedy at seeing how they're carrying some traffic that the Gulf carriers would otherwise have and they want that to continue.

[SPEAKER_01]: The African carriers is kind of similar conversation about they need greater liberalisation, nothing new there, that's something they definitely need to work on. [SPEAKER_01]: The Australian sentiment was again on price. [SPEAKER_01]: That's so far away from everywhere. [SPEAKER_01]: It feels really hurting them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so they're worried again about how they're going to have to pass that on to consumers. [SPEAKER_01]: The engine manufacturers were blasted by Willie Worsh for fing up basically across the board and causing such a rupture in the supply chain, which is leading to airlines not taking delivery of aircraft, which contributes to, [SPEAKER_01]: restriction of network expansion and doesn't bring fairs down and so on.

[SPEAKER_01]: But what I would say for listeners is that the passenger was definitely the champion. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not really an AGM about how do we make more money? [SPEAKER_01]: But it's about how do we make aviation better for the people and how aviation changes lives and it does and more people are traveling than ever and that has to be the case.

[SPEAKER_01]: It has to be an enabler, it has to be accessible, and it has to be cheap as cheap as it can be, whilst still protecting the financial health of the business. [SPEAKER_01]: And that was the kind of, that's been the sentiment over the last few days. [SPEAKER_01]: I've got the last day ahead of me today, and so I can mention that perhaps when we regroup next week, but it's definitely been a headline-making AGM so far.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exciting, awesome. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for sharing. [SPEAKER_00]: I have thoroughly enjoyed hearing about it, but I'd even more prefer to be there next year in China, I'm obsessed with this idea, but anyway, yeah, yeah, just great hosting as well because it's just so modern and easy and exactly, yeah, it's going to be fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: But guys, thank you for tuning in. [SPEAKER_00]: We hope you learned something new as well. [SPEAKER_00]: We will see you next Wednesday as always right here on air. [SPEAKER_00]: Bye-bye.

The One Where Alex Goes To Brazil

Kapitelklicken springt direkt hin

Shownotes

Transkriptvom Podcast bereitgestellt · Zeitmarken springen hin