The One Where Dan Flies Riyadh Air (Behind The Scenes)

0:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Dan and I'm Alex and Maraban Bikum back to on-air. [SPEAKER_01]: How's your week been Alex? [SPEAKER_01]: It's good. [SPEAKER_01]: It was a very busy week. [SPEAKER_01]: Super busy. [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, however, we're obviously recording this now Friday. [SPEAKER_01]: The episode will go out on Friday.

0:19 [SPEAKER_01]: We apologize listeners for this episode arriving late into your feeds, but it is with purpose because Dan is fresh back. [SPEAKER_01]: from flying a brand new what they hope will be global airline and there are very few airline launches in anyone's lifetime. [SPEAKER_01]: So we thought let's not record pre, let's record post because I myself have hundreds of questions but also you are one of the first people, I mean you're one of the first individuals globally to fly [SPEAKER_01]: and the listeners will know, Riyadh Air, which is now up and running, and the reason why this airline has made so many headlines and it's everywhere in its household name and in the aviation world is because as I said, there are very few airlines that just simply start up and come out of nowhere, not least those that are backed by an entire sovereign wealth fund.

1:12 [SPEAKER_01]: This is really, really unusual. [SPEAKER_01]: That's why we're coming to you Friday, but before we get to all things, [SPEAKER_01]: react and your heart experience. [SPEAKER_01]: How are you doing? [SPEAKER_01]: How are you keeping? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm good. [SPEAKER_00]: Luckily, the rear air experience managed to be very chill because it was just back and forth to Jetta from VR.

1:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So it wasn't like back and forth to London or anything like that. [SPEAKER_00]: But I feel that for us, we have such an attention to detail. [SPEAKER_00]: We noticed so many things that it was enough just to do that and not experience the full service because [SPEAKER_00]: When editing these videos like the flight from Jeddah to Riyad is an hour and a half I had an hour and 20 minutes of footage Most of it me talking.

1:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So wow. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just like there's so so much that comes up and Especially as you said in your lifetime how many? [SPEAKER_00]: premium airlines with this type of backing launch. [SPEAKER_00]: It is exceedingly rare and got from it. [SPEAKER_00]: It makes this so interesting and exciting to follow.

2:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely. [SPEAKER_01]: Now just to recap how we got here, let's come to this first because this is likely to be the main focus of the episode. [SPEAKER_01]: There's so much ground to cover, but let's set the scene for anyone that hasn't been following the story closely. [SPEAKER_01]: On March 12th, 2023, [SPEAKER_01]: An airline project was announced by Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, or commonly referred to as MBS.

2:45 [SPEAKER_01]: In his capacity, not just as Crown Prince, but as the chairman of the Sovereign Welfan of Saudi Arabia, they call it the public investment fund, the PIF. [SPEAKER_01]: announced that there would be a whole wholly owned PIF company, an airline that would be sovereign of back a startup, not a privatization, not a rebrand of the existing carriers in Saudi Arabia such as Saudi, and it would be Saudi Arabia's second flag carrier, sitting alongside the already very long established, of course, Saudi, which is anchored in jet air, [SPEAKER_01]: and so rear air would deliberately hub itself at the rear international is King Harlay International and it's chaired by the PIF governor and CEO Tony Douglas who has been a guest on the podcast quite a while back he came over from Etihad where he was there from 2018 to 2022 trimming that losses and kind of putting them in a

3:44 [SPEAKER_01]: in a better state financially, you have to admit before and to now, though, the current CEO ready had taken over and this project is a pillar in Saudi, what they call Vision 2030, which is their way. [SPEAKER_01]: to ultimately diversify the economy away from its reliance on oil income, and move into tourism aviation travel with some big plans to do things like try and connect, re-ad with 100 destinations by 2030.

4:15 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very, very ambitious, right? [SPEAKER_00]: It is. [SPEAKER_00]: We've spoken so much about Riyadh Air over the years on the podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: It was announced before the podcast even started. [SPEAKER_00]: So we've had a lot of time to cover the evolution. [SPEAKER_00]: And what is so interesting is that at the start, my interpretation.

4:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like there's [SPEAKER_00]: some slight revisionist history going on, but my interpretation from the start was that this was really an airline that was hoping to go up against Emirates and against Qatar Airways in being a super connector, and it had the region quite nervous, [SPEAKER_00]: I've been watching so many videos this week as we added the videos from my channel, interviews with different people, and there's this interview that came out from 2023 of Gudal Akbarabakh, Katar Airways, who would never shy away from an entertaining interview, and they asked him about Riyadh Air back in 2023, and with this sort of smirk on his face, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love competition, that's all he says, you know, so although we know the entire region has been watching this very closely, I think we can agree that there has been somewhat of a change in what they're aiming to achieve, and it's really now about bringing people to or from

5:48 [SPEAKER_00]: which changes the airline's purpose and on what level it needs to compete in all that type of stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: It's true, I was speaking to an executive who has been in the Gulf, at a few Gulf airlines actually. [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, this individual has been at all three over a career spanning 40 plus years.

6:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And he was noting how previously, [SPEAKER_01]: For example, when we knew of the project of Etihad, it was kind of dismissed as, you know, but they won't come and, of course, they are, they're actively competing, they started small, they started to grow, then they shrunk a bit more and risen history, and then they're back again.

6:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny, any kind of late comma or rather new comma. [SPEAKER_01]: It's very easy to dismiss them as, yeah, I mean, they've got years ahead of catching up. [SPEAKER_01]: But, [SPEAKER_01]: what many forget and the context all of this is not many competitors have the backing of one of the richest sovereign wealth funds in the world and therefore read out will only be a success because MBS and the Saudi government will accept nothing less.

7:00 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the pursuit to perfection for the Saudi aviation sector and for the Saudi kingdom that want to put [SPEAKER_01]: their aviation. [SPEAKER_01]: They want to make their mark on the aviation world. [SPEAKER_01]: So you're right. [SPEAKER_01]: I do think the founding of this was a little more on transit that we were reading between the lines back then.

7:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Tony Douglas had said in an interview, I've got notes down very early on. [SPEAKER_01]: that we will be, he said quote, we will be for sure a super connector, which is funny because then later that was never a line that had been shared from the top. [SPEAKER_01]: that's I guess the the the bulk of the context we've spoken in previous episodes we in fact we've had many times where we have spoken about them for months and then we've said where are they what's going on and we you know so long story short they've had the first few aircraft arrived now that they are their own aircraft from Boeing 787-9s [SPEAKER_01]: and they've started flights to London on their own aircraft and they've started flights to Jedder, you were on the inaugural flight from Rhea to Jedder.

8:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is Rhea Dare now, up and running as Rhea Dare with no or excuse this or mine that, these are Rhea Dare flights that passengers will now be writing in their reviews about filming, vlogging, texting, love one saying this was either better or worse than XYZ. [SPEAKER_01]: And you are one of the first in the world, [SPEAKER_01]: to fly on this route.

8:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So, talk me through, I mean, I guess, 10 minutes. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a, well, that's a, that's a big task, but I thought we could sort of break it down based on my biggest takeaways, because one question or one dilemma, I often think about is an airline rear air just to say what the truth of the matter is [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely, one of the top three most stunning cabins I've ever seen in person, but also in photos, the design is impeccable.

9:10 [SPEAKER_00]: But what I find so interesting and what I really dive into in my second video of a business and premium economy is that [SPEAKER_00]: The design is sort of hiding the fact that these aircraft are extremely densely configured. [SPEAKER_00]: And there was an interview last week with Tony Douglas, where he said, and this is a quote, that the aircraft are configured to be, quote, money makers.

9:39 [SPEAKER_00]: which I find a very interesting statement to make to the public. [SPEAKER_00]: It's one thing inside the company, but this is not some sort of, okay, what I'm trying to say is, I think they're trying to make a big splash with the aesthetics. [SPEAKER_00]: My question is, do you think [SPEAKER_00]: without actually having some sort of mind blowing or a groundbreaking product in any cabin, hard product in this case, is that possible just on aesthetics alone?

10:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you style your way out of having a very dense and slightly less comfortable cabin and some of the competition? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, look, that platform is the 787-9 right, which is a pretty tight on the grand scheme of things long-haul aircraft, a wide body aircraft that's not known for its space in terms of the cross-section and just the cabin products that you're able to put into this aircraft.

10:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the mood lighting and I watched your video and we've seen all the images now that the PR images, the real life images, you've experienced it, saw your videos. [SPEAKER_01]: I think the mood lighting [SPEAKER_01]: is potentially doing a lot of heavy lifting in terms of the overall cabin aesthetic and how that makes the passengers feel.

10:59 [SPEAKER_01]: But then on the other side I see okay well that's that's the beauty of mood lighting, right? [SPEAKER_01]: It's how you make passengers feel and how it feels something either futuristic or different or it doesn't feel just you know very navy blue and gray. [SPEAKER_01]: And look they're cabin design lead.

11:13 [SPEAKER_01]: was Anton, who has since left Riede to pursue other great projects, but he is the cabin design guy, was the cabin design guy for Riede. [SPEAKER_00]: And quite an experience in general. [SPEAKER_01]: Customer experience exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's everything that the passenger is going to experience, and he has experience at a bunch of other airlines, including a Canada, he's Canadian.

11:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's incredible with cabin design. [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody can deny that. [SPEAKER_01]: He has created something. [SPEAKER_01]: Considering it's a catalogue product, for example, the seat itself is the unity seat, which flies on many other carriers, it doesn't really look like the unity seat because of the design flares that Anton has been able to integrate and enhance as part of the overall passenger experience, and it's very strong, as I said, with the accent and mood lighting, not just the 787 cabin and the ceiling space, but it's everywhere.

12:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I [SPEAKER_01]: It was underneath your TV, you know, in economy class, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: There are so many details everywhere. [SPEAKER_00]: And we do want to give this shout out to Anton. [SPEAKER_00]: He told me they spent a week with Boeing just designing the mood lighting.

12:23 [SPEAKER_00]: One week an entire team to nail that. [SPEAKER_00]: And as I'm thinking about this, as we're discussing, [SPEAKER_00]: I guess my takeaway is that for your average passenger mood light, I mean, this is what makes Anton so genius because mood lighting and cabin design do so much to elevate people's impression and look no further than Delta, which flies some of the oldest planes in the world.

12:51 [SPEAKER_00]: They're modernizing a lot now, but [SPEAKER_00]: historically have flown an incredibly old fleet. [SPEAKER_00]: They put some mood lighting in there and to every American thinks they are the most glamorous luxurious airline on this planet. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, because if he bored and it looks like a nightclub, you're like, well, he's climbing indeed, you know.

13:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Precisely. [SPEAKER_00]: I fly delta. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know. [SPEAKER_00]: So, so Anton being given the directive that we want this to be a money maker, we want to have pretty dense cabins and saying, what can we do with this to still really create hype and make people talk about us?

13:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is something they have nailed. [SPEAKER_00]: So well, and so intelligently, because most airlines launching even brand new cutting edge products and seats are better than reattair Don't go that extra mile with the aesthetics, and it's a missed opportunity because then they could be They could really be seen as okay.

13:49 [SPEAKER_01]: This airline is on their game Now if you see if you I mean I'm looking at the video of you in an economy class for example the economy class He's just wash [SPEAKER_01]: in different shades of lighting, which is so clever because you just don't look like you're in the economy class of a Boeing aircraft, the type that you would see on TV in an old movie where it's that hospital grade lighting above and it just makes all the difference, despite the fact that the economy seat that you were sitting in is nothing revolutionary at all.

14:17 [SPEAKER_01]: This is perfectly standard, super catalogue, no innovation or quirks that perhaps could have [SPEAKER_01]: I was around the region and then of course you highlight there is a generous recline but that comes at a cost if the guy in front of you is just reclined and you're wanting to work.

14:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Precisely, which is always as I also say a dilemma because of course the most important thing is to come for it and [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a question of, do you want more decline? [SPEAKER_00]: I guess that's better than having less decline and not being bothered by the person in front, because it's more comfortable for your body.

14:57 [SPEAKER_00]: It's tough to where you draw the line there. [SPEAKER_00]: Another thing I found so interesting is that [SPEAKER_00]: It's very obvious, at least to me, that this is an airline that has been in the center of a tug and war, tug of war between some very intelligent people who know what will make this airline the best.

15:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And some people who are partly very conscious of the financials, and then partly very conscious of the evolving social situation in Saudi Arabia, because Saudi Arabia has made a lot of progress, I would call it, and changes in the past seven or so years, but [SPEAKER_00]: There's still a lot more to happen until it becomes, you know, I don't think they even want to be like Dubai, for example, but there's a lot of wiggle room between what they currently are and what Emirates is able to provide because of what Dubai is like.

16:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So you can tell that there were these [SPEAKER_00]: uh... struggles of trying to agree on okay what do we do or if we're really trying to be this modern airline that appeals to westerners then i mean to be completely frank here i got so many comments on my video [SPEAKER_00]: saying that having an extremely lengthy draw-in-out travel prayer before takeoff, for example, doesn't quite fit that modern narrative that, for example, Brits might want when choosing an airline.

16:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that what some people had been in touch to say? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I got so many comments. [SPEAKER_00]: Most of them were hidden because they ended up being quite problematic, but yeah, yeah, there are always comments like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, a million comments about, I'll never fly an airline that doesn't serve alcohol, doesn't matter how beautiful the cabins are.

17:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's move to that. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's move to that. [SPEAKER_01]: So of course, Rhea did now up and running and flying, for example, to London internationally. [SPEAKER_01]: They've launched the domestic flights that you're on the inaugural the international but regional flights launch now to Dubai and so [SPEAKER_01]: The airline is a dry airline, which does put it out of step with their golf competitors.

17:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And there is no, you know, the golf competitors are still hubbed and from those countries that have Islamic values. [SPEAKER_01]: And those golf carriers like Eddie had Emirates Qatar, and so on still offer alcohol in the lounges and on board. [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, there is the big difference that Saudi Arabia, [SPEAKER_01]: There isn't alcohol available in places like hotels and restaurants yet.

17:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I know there is some movement in diplomatic areas. [SPEAKER_01]: They're speaking about a certain kind of zone, but it's very slow, but there is some movement, but the direction seems to be that they will move towards a similar model that their golf neighbors were following a long time ago.

18:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Now for their golf neighbors, [SPEAKER_01]: This was a journey they completed well over a decade ago for some of them two decades ago So this is not so new to them and they now have it kind of freely available and restaurants and whatnot And that makes it easier for the airline, but for Saudi Arabia They say that because of the rules of Saudi, React doesn't have our core available [SPEAKER_01]: And it's amazing that for a lot of people, that is a deal breaker.

18:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, you, you, you know, you, you don't particularly relate to this because for for our choices, we don't drink right, but, but there is a, uh, school of thought from a premium passenger. [SPEAKER_01]: who says that if they are going to be parting with X amount of cash or their flying around for work or whatever, if it's the evening, if it's an overnight, if it's whatever, they want to be able to enjoy alcohol as part of the dining experience as part of the flying experience.

19:03 [SPEAKER_01]: as part of the bar experience and looking at further than these Arab airlines like Emirates that have invested in the leaders in a bar on board almost every aircraft or at least all a 380s for such a long time being the pinnacle and the USP is to why you should fly Emirates because of the bar.

19:25 [SPEAKER_01]: If we take a random selection of grandmothers around the world right now, [SPEAKER_01]: I would say at least half, at least half, who at least watched TV or digitally, kind of, digitally able, have been able to know that Emirates have a part. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just excellent branding. [SPEAKER_01]: Qatar on the A380, a beautiful bar.

19:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Erti had with the A380 product. [SPEAKER_01]: Having a kind of a lounge, yeah, more of a lounge or social space to chill in. [SPEAKER_01]: It does put them out of out of step with those carriers, and for a lot of people, they consider that to be a deal breaker, and it's worth putting it on the record into this episode.

20:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Precisely, and that's what I mean by this tug of war, because I'm sure some people joined assuming that [SPEAKER_00]: this airline would launch and at least be on the level of Qatar airways in terms of having okay maybe we have a short travel prayer and it's just listen to us to me and you we love an airline with a sense of place.

20:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I love [SPEAKER_01]: For example, the place is a culture that you're living in that, you know, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Like in, I love, or I think Saudi, for example, offers a really good product. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't mind at all that it's dry. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't mind that the crew wear hijab most of the time.

20:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't mind the long travel prayer. [SPEAKER_00]: But to Janet, who lives in Esusix, who's choosing which airline to fly, or where in the Gulf to go on vacation, or which airline to fly. [SPEAKER_00]: If you're comparing Emirates, which has none of those quote unquote issues to some people that I just listed to read out air, it's obvious, but as you're saying, Janet has just been in touch, actually, Janet made such a mistake.

21:16 [SPEAKER_01]: She says, don't put words on my mouth and you absolutely, and then I can't, I can't read the rest. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think we can assume that, but as you say, there is a lot of stuff bubbling in the background that I think if we look at Reader in a brewing, if we look at Reader in five years or ten years, I think it will be more in line with the Gulf competitors and at that point they have a beautiful product, their operations are established and smoothed out.

21:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're just setting the foundation here. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me about the experience about the, Tell me about the passenger experience. [SPEAKER_01]: What was the service like? [SPEAKER_01]: What surprised you what didn't? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the funny thing is obviously most of the crew are from other Middle Eastern carriers.

22:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: What we were thinking about going into it. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to ask what do you think they do here? [SPEAKER_00]: What decides who gets to work in business class? [SPEAKER_00]: because normally it can be already or promotions, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I would, if I were recruiting crew that had already reached business class tier.

22:30 [SPEAKER_01]: other airlines they would be my priority to work in business on my new airline. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay yeah that makes sense so on real air it turns out the crew work all cabins for now so the founding crew can be assigned to business or one flight economy on the next there's no separation there which I thought was interesting.

22:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, for example, we had a Russian crew member, and as we were leaving, she said, No, no, no, no, not at all. [SPEAKER_00]: What is goodbye in Arabic? [SPEAKER_01]: I agree with Salama. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so she was saying Masalaam or some other phrase to everyone as we were disembarking, even though she's Russian.

23:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So that might be a part of the training, for example, which we found quite funny. [SPEAKER_00]: We had a chat with her. [SPEAKER_00]: She was former Emirates, had joined Red Air three months ago. [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's fun to see how, for every single crew member on board, it was their first flight.

23:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So there was a lot of like, oh my god, you could tell they were kind of nervous, which we totally understand and it was fun to get to share that experience with them, see the aircraft for the first time with them as well. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, what else surprised me about the, I mean, the soft product.

23:47 [SPEAKER_01]: This is what did it feel like? [SPEAKER_01]: Did it feel like you were on an Etihad flight? [SPEAKER_01]: Did it feel like you were on a Qatar flight? [SPEAKER_01]: Did it feel like something different? [SPEAKER_00]: What was the, yeah, it felt most similar to Qatar, for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: In terms of the, um, very strong focus on premium.

24:03 [SPEAKER_00]: There's not a very laid back kind of fun of Emirates. [SPEAKER_00]: It's very like the same structured vibe as Qatar. [SPEAKER_00]: There's also clearly so much being invested into the soft product. [SPEAKER_00]: Again, they have a dense cabin, so they're choosing, okay, we'll provide, you know, pre-departure drinks and hot towels and Saudi coffee with dates in premium economy, which is unheard of on any other airline.

24:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: That's an example of where they're choosing to go. [SPEAKER_00]: very far in that sense. [SPEAKER_01]: What did you become economy? [SPEAKER_01]: What was premium economy like? [SPEAKER_01]: Because this is apart from Emirates, Etihad have no premium economy, Qatar has no premium economy.

24:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Premium economy is the money-made corridor airlines globally because it uses very little real estate and yet they're able to have nice profitable margins. [SPEAKER_01]: And I do see it as the direction of travel for, I think there may be a scenario where both that he had and could tie him up with some form of premium economy in future.

25:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this should. [SPEAKER_00]: It's so funny how they're like stubborn out of principle about we don't, we're not gonna offer premium economy, but it's like every airline says it's the most profitable cabin. [SPEAKER_00]: So what are you doing? [SPEAKER_00]: You know, Tony Douglas, the funny thing is, he goes, yeah, this is like business class on other airlines or a premium economy.

25:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, when any CEO says that that's not really the case, it's the same way. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I cringe a little when they say that because when a CEO says, yeah, this is like, this is like business class and we're looking at an economy, a generous economy seat, right, which is considered premium economy in, is it?

25:42 [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, I'm not looking at the seat. [SPEAKER_01]: That seat model I like for a premium economy, I think it's sound office decent, kind of like there's a bit more private. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a good seat model. [SPEAKER_01]: But don't say it's like business class because then I'm looking at you thinking okay, have you not flown business class of the competitor doesn't look like this this is premium economy it is not a life let's see it is not reverse hearing bone it doesn't have a door [SPEAKER_01]: It's not, you know, let's be realistic.

26:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Premium economy, that's it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's closer to a club, Europe, BA economy seed, then then business off of the region. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right. [SPEAKER_00]: It's better than luck's air business. [SPEAKER_00]: For example, I mean, yeah, obviously, it's better than a Gian's current business.

26:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Like any airline that doesn't have a real life-led seat, it's better than. [SPEAKER_00]: But again, it's so, so stylish, but extremely dense, and you can kind of tell. [SPEAKER_00]: I did a bit of a comparison into Lufth Squash, yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: So I did a bit of a comparison to Lufthansa's 787, just for fun, because we know Lufthansa as the money focused airline, everything is about making money, we're not investing in flashy, exciting things for passengers, yeah.

26:59 [SPEAKER_00]: on lift, let me see here. [SPEAKER_00]: So, where did I write? [SPEAKER_00]: So, rear air has 39 premium economy seats on their 77 and lifetimes has 21. [SPEAKER_00]: So, try to remember those numbers. [SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, rear air has [SPEAKER_00]: six hold on. [SPEAKER_00]: So there's eight, this doesn't make sense.

27:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm saying it. [SPEAKER_00]: There's 18 more premium economy seats on rear airs, 787. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: But on lift tons of 787, there's 24 more economy class seats. [SPEAKER_00]: So basically to put that into perspective, rear airfits, 18 premium economy seats, where lift tons of puts 24 economy seats.

27:56 [SPEAKER_01]: are you following what I'm saying about yes so if we have it that's the best way to explain it actually especially to to listeners who are trying to visualize so just say that last bit again so it was in the same space where Lufthansa are putting how many it's not quite like no representative of the total capacity [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there has 18 premium economy seats, where Lufthansa has 24 economy seats, right?

28:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So think about that in terms of leg room in terms of width, because 18 is a pretty close number to 20. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not so far away from 24, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Precisely. [SPEAKER_01]: But you're not talking about a like for like comparison, because one of them is supposed to be a premium economy seat, and this is in the, this is a bigger seat taking up more [SPEAKER_01]: of an aircraft cabin that is known to be tight.

28:48 [SPEAKER_01]: The 787-9, the cross section, the fuselage, the design, the curvature, it's not the roomiest aircraft. [SPEAKER_01]: This is by no means a triple seven or a three-fifty. [SPEAKER_00]: No, how we wish was a 350, but the three fifties are coming. [SPEAKER_00]: So just to wrap things up here because we've been going on for so long about Riettaire and there's other news, this is as Tony Douglas says, Amoni Meka.

29:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But it is a stylish, beautiful money maker with an incredible soft product. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that there's a missed opportunity because of the people who are on one side of this tug of war saying, no, this needs to be a super profitable venture immediately. [SPEAKER_00]: This is not about creating a halo effect around the airline or around Riyadh.

29:44 [SPEAKER_00]: this needs to be very practical. [SPEAKER_00]: They missed an opportunity to have their Q Suite moment or to have their Emirates first class moment where the whole world looks and goes, oh my gosh, this is something I need to try. [SPEAKER_00]: This is something that will change the direction of the industry [SPEAKER_00]: True.

30:14 [SPEAKER_01]: True. [SPEAKER_01]: Very true. [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess, okay, so you landed, the flight was kind of uneventful, were there any festivities on board? [SPEAKER_00]: There were cupcakes and these little cool luggage tags we got, but it was, I mean, as we were talking about, the launch is surprisingly low key.

30:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So the flight matched that it wasn't the most extravagant in all-girl flight, especially for the fourth day of operations of a brand new airline, but it was super fun. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's good. [SPEAKER_01]: We, um, [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, look, you're bound to fly them on a longer sector and I've been interested to know what that was now.

30:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Red Eye service is going to look like, what about the short flights to London? [SPEAKER_01]: Is it done on demand? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, good question. [SPEAKER_00]: I need to get an answer to that because obviously I didn't know there was no option for that on my flight, but I will try to find out.

31:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well look, we'll come back to that you have published two YouTube videos. [SPEAKER_01]: The first one is already up, the second one is about to be up shortly, probably by the time this episode drops in your feed, it will be there, look at me advertising nonstop damn, but it's worth a watch, I watched it last night, you need to go to his YouTube channel, it's nonstop damn, he's the YouTube extraordinaire and he's showing you everything we've just discussed.

31:33 [SPEAKER_01]: You get kind of a better, obviously, you can see it, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a better idea of what Dan was experiencing and definitely a beautifully designed [SPEAKER_01]: A cabin product and also you were very very fair in knowing that you're not going to say, oh, this is weird or that strange, because these are their first days of operation and the LN plans to be around for decades and decades and decades.

31:55 [SPEAKER_01]: One timey timey observation before we move on. [SPEAKER_01]: Why were the crew wearing their IDs, their lanyards and IDs during the question flight? [SPEAKER_01]: I found that really weird because the interactions when you were sitting in a economy, and she was leaning over, couldn't remember leaning over to place your drink down, or whatever.

32:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Lanyard and ID is swinging. [SPEAKER_01]: And it just looked, it's very unusual to see that they sometimes some airlines, they wear the ID during boarding or anytime that the door is open so that they can identify themselves and keep it, you know, in line with security checks, but strange to be wearing it during the flight, I thought.

32:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's just a first flight oversight that, as I said, all these crew were on there for the first time, so it could just be, and they also didn't have name tags. [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe this is an interim solution to show people their names before they get. [SPEAKER_01]: They should have like a name tag with a small logo of the airline that they've been poached from.

32:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Presumably, when you're sitting in the cabin, you're looking over and you're thinking, Oh, don't a second. [SPEAKER_01]: You're thinking, Oh, don't, excuse me. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, not everyone's single-parallel lines. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi. [SPEAKER_01]: Can I please have some?

33:09 [SPEAKER_00]: That is so funny. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just looking through my old Saudi footage and the crew don't wear lying in your dress. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not a Saudi thing. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just probably a one-off. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's move to Quantus to confirm to the world, the spirit of Australia, that the world's first daily nonstop flight from Sydney, using the A350 1000 ULR, which is the ultra long range variant of the A350 1000, one of the best selling commercial long aircraft that Quantus remains the only customer of in terms of the ULR version.

33:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Will fly? [SPEAKER_01]: from Sydney to Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-Dut-D [SPEAKER_01]: you will be able for the first time in the history of flight itself to fly nonstop between Sydney and London it will be when it launches a milestone for the world because if we just go back to the kangaroo route and where it all go I'm sorry.

34:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to say this is a huge deal for you as a British Greek, Cypriot, Brazilian Australian, because somehow and all of this, I think of you as part Australian, because you have family there. [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of my family are in Australia, but that's not, I mean, that's not difficult because I think the most number of Greek sets out of Greece are in Australia, right?

34:54 [SPEAKER_01]: So, so that's why. [SPEAKER_01]: But this is really cool. [SPEAKER_01]: This is really exciting. [SPEAKER_01]: And to go back to, as I said, the kangaroo root or if you're Australian route, uh, an American, the, the, uh, it used the take. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's first started in 1930s and it was 12 days with 31 stops.

35:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, one of the legs had to be [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then the definitive kind of quanta service launched on the first of December 1947, that's the year before you were born down, and that was on a Lockheed constellation. [SPEAKER_01]: Seven stars. [SPEAKER_01]: Seven stops, four days Darwin to Singapore, Calcutta, Karachi, Cairo, Tripoli, London, overnighting in Singapore and Cairo, 29 passengers only 10 crew, [SPEAKER_01]: 525 British pounds, then that might sound like a bargain, but 525 British pounds, then the equivalent today's money of 17,400 British pounds, a small full tune.

36:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Vanessa, Hudson, the CEO of Quantas, had a quick chat with her during the ART-AGM where I was in Rio last week. [SPEAKER_01]: Every aircraft generation since has been able to delete a stop, which is a really nice trend, the constellation aircraft that I just told you about. [SPEAKER_01]: That was seven stops four days, replaced by the Boeing 707, the Pioneer Pan Am star aircraft, you picture Dr. Volta because he has one, the 707 removed a stop, the 747 down a couple of stops, and then the A380 down to one stop.

36:46 [SPEAKER_01]: which is only Singapore meaning that you can fly between Australia, Sydney and London with just a stop. [SPEAKER_01]: And now for the first time ever, we will be able to all being more next year fly direct, nonstop between Sydney and London. [SPEAKER_01]: that will be something really historic.

37:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Vanessa Hudson says that Australian's distance from the rest of the world should never stand in the way and that projects sunrise will not only overcome what she is calling the tyranny of distance. [SPEAKER_01]: The tyranny of distance. [SPEAKER_01]: She says it will fundamentally change the way our customers are travelling the world, eliminating the stop of her saves up to four hours and the cabin is built around science to combat that [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.

37:30 [SPEAKER_00]: There are so many thoughts. [SPEAKER_00]: This is so groundbreaking when it happens, but my main thought every time I read this is just that, okay, it's nice to have, but most 95% of people flying between Australia and Europe or North America will not be on this flight, and probably most people wouldn't want to.

37:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know about you, but it's like in an emergency, having a direct [SPEAKER_00]: But at a certain point when you're passing 20 hours, even when you're passing like 13, 14, I'm like, isn't it better to just stretch your feet along the way? [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe stay overnight in a hotel, even to me that's more appealing than just getting on and being there for basically, you know, until that same time the next day.

38:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't don't you agree? [SPEAKER_01]: I do, I do, and I would look forward to that stop and, you know, the shower and getting into kind of crisp white sheets and not the slug of the one journey. [SPEAKER_01]: To put it into context, the flight between Sydney and London, the shortest this flight in terms of duration is going to be is around 19 hours.

38:43 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the shortest. [SPEAKER_01]: So for passengers, a quick version of that flight, [SPEAKER_01]: The longest, and the reason why differs of course is depending on the winds, the season routine geopolitics, and so on. [SPEAKER_01]: The longest will be around 22 hours. [SPEAKER_01]: The funny part is as well, is that if you think about Australia, this Sydney to London route can be done both Eastbound and Westbound.

39:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And North. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, and North. [SPEAKER_01]: So there are all kinds of options. [SPEAKER_01]: You can continue through Asia, Central Asia, across Europe, and into London. [SPEAKER_01]: you can go up towards Japan and then up and over, kind of the polar route, you can stick a bit more to the west and to the west of Japan and stick purely polar, depending again on routing, you're able to leave Australia and fly over the Pacific and then with Japan on your left and again, up and over and into, [SPEAKER_01]: into London.

39:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So there are various routes, and it will depend on the variables that determine routeings every single day, whether geopolitics, airspace restrictions, fuel and so on. [SPEAKER_01]: There is no fixed path, and because the aircraft can't overfly Russia, and that's probably likely to continue, Kontas is going to lean on the Arctic instead.

40:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So this will be something revolutionary in the commitment now, that why it's expected it will be London, is [SPEAKER_01]: is pretty exciting stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: This is a project that the contest has been super committed to. [SPEAKER_01]: They have a love-hate relationship with the Australian public like many national carers do with our respective nations.

40:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And Vanessa Hudson, CEO Quantas, admits that she was asked on this, and she said that, look, for when she said, basically said that when Quantas fuck up, she didn't use the F word, but it can really be something that really upsets Australian travelers understandably so, [SPEAKER_01]: do write, she really thinks they get right, and it's that spirit of Australia, it's connecting the world.

40:45 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, from somewhere that is just so far from everywhere unless you live in New Zealand. [SPEAKER_01]: And just a quick note on the aircraft doing this. [SPEAKER_01]: So you familiar with the difference between the A350, ULR versus just a 1000 that you and I are on all the time. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sir, but feel free to take us through it.

41:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's not many differences. [SPEAKER_01]: Other than it's the, you know, it's the [SPEAKER_01]: The addition of a 20,000-liter rear-center tank, which gives it around another 1,000-nautical miles. [SPEAKER_01]: It's of course a higher maximum take of way a reinforced landing gear because this is going to be a heavier aircraft on departure, loaded up entirely with fuel, and and crucially they are able to fly non-stop [SPEAKER_01]: because 1,000 Nordkommar's extras is not that much, right?

41:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Meaning that the 351,000 that it's in service everywhere today can do like 93% of what this aircraft can do. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not that much of a, you know, it's not very unique in that sense. [SPEAKER_01]: What is slightly unique is that they're able to fly this distance because the variant of the ULR will only carry for contests 238 people.

42:01 [SPEAKER_01]: That's just over a third of the cabin sacrificed for fuel. [SPEAKER_01]: So this is going to be a more expensive flight, typically. [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be around 20% in price point higher in fair. [SPEAKER_01]: Then if you connect via the Golf, via Singapore, via Asia, via China, via Nurels.

42:20 [SPEAKER_01]: But they have the data to show that people are doing that. [SPEAKER_01]: Corporate is doing that. [SPEAKER_01]: Business travellers are doing that because they're already doing it. [SPEAKER_01]: Non-stop. [SPEAKER_01]: perth London, where you can already fly. [SPEAKER_01]: You don't stop direct connecting Australia with London.

42:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't even imagine what the prices are going to be in business and first and first class. [SPEAKER_00]: I think this will be the most expensive ticket the world has seen because if you're going to do this flight, I mean, [SPEAKER_00]: on a consistent basis probably because yeah maybe if you're going to do this flight you want to be in first class you know that is that's what I want to do it stop talking about it get a time for sure but what what scares me even to think about and [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot fathom who is going to do this flight in economy who wants to do 20 plus hours wreck their body, their joints, their but everything is going to be so sore after the flight.

43:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just picturing, they're making tons of money in premium cabins, maybe not getting as much of a premium for premium economy and economy, but it's like, is it just a flight full of people who have emergencies and have to get to it? [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, look the fastest way possible.

43:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Every day, a 787-9 takes off from London to Australia nonstop. [SPEAKER_01]: That is also an 18 or so hour flight. [SPEAKER_01]: but it can go up to 18 hours or 17 and a half. [SPEAKER_01]: London to Perth, that's a daily flight. [SPEAKER_01]: And every day, there are a bunch of economy class passengers seemingly ready to sit at the back of a seven, eight, seven for almost a day.

44:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And my, the market, that's it. [SPEAKER_00]: That is you speak out to find a child to us and tell us why you hate yourself, your body, [SPEAKER_01]: There are cheaper and potentially more comfortable options via everywhere else. [SPEAKER_01]: That's why you're saying it's right. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not about any one of me.

44:32 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the fact that it's the nonstop. [SPEAKER_00]: And we have to also look at the current world's longest flight, Singapore Airlines, Singapore to New York, which unlike this quantist flight does not have any economy. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a A350 900 ULR, owned the has business and premium economy, and the reason I bring this economy question up is that even in premium economy, [SPEAKER_00]: Singapore Airlines doesn't sell very well in that cabin on these flights.

45:04 [SPEAKER_00]: If you check prices, just now pulling up New York to Singapore on the world's longest flight in premium economy during peak season in summer, you can get a one-way ticket for $690. [SPEAKER_00]: On the world's longest flight in premium economy, [SPEAKER_00]: check New York to London, the cheapest ticket on that seven hour flight is 700 plus dollars on United and any other airlines.

45:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So the world's longest flight is cheaper. [SPEAKER_00]: Singapore Airlines is reconfiguring their A350 ULRs with less premium economy seats because clearly the demand is not there. [SPEAKER_00]: It might also be because they put 70 or so premium economy seats on this aircraft, [SPEAKER_00]: for some people at a certain point when they see a block time of 19 hours, it's like, okay, no thanks.

46:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true. [SPEAKER_01]: At this point, listeners, I have to address the elephant in the room. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: The guy that I do the podcast with, my co-host is literally called non-stop dan. [SPEAKER_01]: It's on his merch. [SPEAKER_01]: It's his brand, it's his YouTube show title.

46:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And here he is, spending an entire episode telling us all that he would rather break Sydney London in Singapore for a plate of vegan, laksa and a lighthouse, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Rather than going forward, Dan, you are one stop, Dan. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, with an asterisk. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you are one stop, Dan.

46:40 [SPEAKER_01]: You are multi-city stop, Dan. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: The idea of the name is not so much non-stop flight as in non-stop flying all the time Traveling all the time. [SPEAKER_01]: This is where the listeners. [SPEAKER_01]: This is where the OG listeners really know the origins of the night You surprised You would have risk Have to even discuss this in mid 20 to 20 takes but the OG listeners know exactly what I'm talking about and they are love doing with me at his [SPEAKER_01]: to present it as anything other than theft from a well-known European airline group.

47:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And with that, we will move into Q&A. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to, but let's do it. [SPEAKER_00]: We have so many questions, guys. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry we won't have time to get through all of these, but just some input here. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll just question about whether airline status is worth it from Helena, which is a great reminder.

47:42 [SPEAKER_00]: She says, as a one-world emerald, she can buy business class life fairs and still get lounge access and extra baggage that other people would be paying more than $400 for per person. [SPEAKER_00]: And this, I think, gets to our point of one world is the only alliance that's still properly rewards its elite members across airlines, and this is why one world is our favorite alliance.

48:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And also, for example, with British allies, I like, you know, if I don't need to check in a bag, I would do a hand-back at your only Fed, but I'll know that I'll still be in the first Q Group Zero, or Group One if they don't go zero, I'll still, I'll still [SPEAKER_01]: have the lounge access, the fast track, the first wing, and everything is really good, and that's because of status, right?

48:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So, that's really good. [SPEAKER_01]: So, we have a couple of questions about the way and travel advisories. [SPEAKER_01]: Carlos is asking about if there had been any updates and they have. [SPEAKER_01]: So, there is a coordinated response and essentially [SPEAKER_01]: Australia has dropped UA, Qatar, Bahrain, Israel, Kuwait from their do not travel, they've lowered it to reconsider your travel.

48:51 [SPEAKER_01]: But the UK has removed the advisory against, meaning that your travel insurance is now valid if you want to travel to or transit via. [SPEAKER_01]: Dubai, Abu Javi, of course the UAE anywhere in the UAE, but also Qatar and the other Gulf States. [SPEAKER_01]: So that opens up your travel insurance is once again valid if you find yourself on the way to Asia.

49:17 [SPEAKER_01]: You want to stop in the Gulf, you don't have to worry about invalid travel insurance because of that advisory. [SPEAKER_01]: And the second part to that question that we also received on Instagram was about the insurance that has been launched by Emirates, but also [SPEAKER_01]: Etihad, which is really interesting because Emirates have launched what they are calling a world first, which is comprehensive travel cover backed by travel guard, and essentially it's conflict related medical coverage up to $25,000 US dollars, but also includes airline managed hotels during disruption, [SPEAKER_01]: extended stay support, they'll repatriate you on Emirates or another carrier if something happens, this is that way to say look, we know that February 28th the conflicts started extremely fast, and hundreds of thousands of people were called off-guard and stuck.

50:07 [SPEAKER_01]: on holiday or in transit or during a meeting or whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: This type of travel insurance will protect you and provide you that element of peace of mind in terms of don't worry, they've got it, they're going to put you up until they can get you out, they're going to cover any medical expenses that you might suddenly find yourself needing during those scenarios and so on.

50:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And Etihad launching a slightly different model because that is complementary [SPEAKER_01]: And it's automatically applied, I'm sure it'd be worked into the fair, but my daughter had her offering rock bottom fairs at the moment, dumping capacity in terms of fluffers. [SPEAKER_01]: But they are offering an automatically applied policy right down for eligible visitors flying into Abu Dhabi, meaning that you, again, don't have to worry.

50:53 [SPEAKER_01]: It's peace of mind, they're gonna sort you out if anything goes wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: this is groundbreaking to me because let's zoom out from the Middle East. [SPEAKER_00]: No one can ignore the fact that 2024, 2025, as travelers were extremely uncertain and disruptive years. [SPEAKER_00]: I remember sitting in Delhi as Pakistan was firing toward India.

51:16 [SPEAKER_00]: We were wondering what's going to happen here. [SPEAKER_00]: We have the Middle East. [SPEAKER_00]: We have conflict in a lot of places. [SPEAKER_01]: So we let, we let, we let, we let, we let, [SPEAKER_01]: having planned, you know, a plan to be an Eastern Europe or a work trip to Warsaw, things like that and something that was the war on Ukraine is precise and everything that's happened with Venezuela is a lot.

51:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot of conflict, but no travel insurances will help you. [SPEAKER_00]: So in the event of war, so you're left completely alone. [SPEAKER_00]: But knowing that your airline offers an option to not have to worry about that I think is an amazing benefit and I wish more airlines would do this I think a good place to start is the Gulf but other regions as well just for that additional peace of mind It does not have to be called the men tree [SPEAKER_00]: And the one slightly disappointing limitation which I understand is that it's only available in a select number of mostly western countries due to insurance how it works differently in different countries.

52:18 [SPEAKER_00]: But it is a great initiative and I hope we see it more. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, really great. [SPEAKER_00]: We have a question here from, well, this is based on our discussion about Philippine Airlines joining one world from James. [SPEAKER_00]: He says, well, it's not surprising because of long-time code sharing, it's still surprising that one world extended an invitation to Philippine Airlines to join the Alliance ahead of StarLux.

52:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And he thoughts on that and thoughts on pal joining one world despite its mixed reputation. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's focus on the fact that Starlox is being blocked. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they want to be a part of one world. [SPEAKER_01]: And the competitors in the region are actively working to keep them out of the alliance.

53:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And we like alliances, we're pro-aligned, sit, we're pro-sharing and what that brings us benefits to passengers, but what I will say to you is that behind closed doors, it's like school. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, things are really sometimes quite vicious. [SPEAKER_01]: In these deliberations and negotiations and the movements and the who's doing what within the alliance says, because it's really, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes they turn a blind eye at airlines doing things outside of the alliance and then sometimes one airline member It's particularly a founder member is ready to slander and go for another carrier for a [SPEAKER_01]: having dared thought they would get into bed with a non-aliance member that they pose so it's really it's very gossipy there's a lot of tea there's a lot of there's a lot of bitchiness no I'm I'm really painting a real picture here this is and so it does not surprise me this situation that Stylix finds itself in this is an ongoing saga there are a few characters in the one-modaliance that are known

54:10 [SPEAKER_01]: for being upset and angry about everything, but it's totally fine when they're going to strike their own deals with other airlines that are not part of the alliance. [SPEAKER_01]: And why do you think some of this has entered the public domain? [SPEAKER_01]: Why was it so world documented how conscious seemingly forgot it had one word partners and jumped into bed in four-force with Emirates only to now be kind of like trying to leave the morning after?

54:35 [SPEAKER_00]: We need to call out airlines more who cheat on their alliance because they're a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: They should be divorced from the alliance that they do not. [SPEAKER_01]: But they can't be because then there would be no alliance because some airlines are acting out of the one-world marriage.

54:52 [SPEAKER_01]: literally citing the fact that the other, you know, the other spouse in the alliance had done it first. [SPEAKER_01]: So they said, well, they've done that and there have been no repercussions. [SPEAKER_01]: So now we're going to do this. [SPEAKER_01]: Then the other one changes leadership and they get angry and say, well, you're now doing this and then they have to remind them that they're doing that because they made the first move with someone else in the first place.

55:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's this vicious circle that that continues only make more interesting by the fact that there are leadership [SPEAKER_01]: So you get kind of the new ones arriving to one more and being brought up to speed in who hates who this month, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, final question from Damien, which I think is an interesting note to end on.

55:36 [SPEAKER_00]: He says he's planning a trip from Malaysia to London for friends wedding and late August, and has been monitoring price flight prices for a couple of months. [SPEAKER_00]: The rates have fluctuated between about 500 to $1,000 over the past couple of weeks. [SPEAKER_00]: and he's been waiting for a hoped for Middle Eastern peace steel to perhaps trigger a price drop.

55:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Now that there is a deal, the prices seem to have gone up. [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think the prices in the next couple of weeks will drop given the peace steel is confirmed and airlines might want lower prices to attract travelers? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm afraid that will not happen. [SPEAKER_01]: No, no.

56:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the lowest fairs... [SPEAKER_01]: were at the time when the alas were the most vulnerable, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And then that's not as they as they move forward and Emirates are about 80 to 90 percent of their pre-war capacity Qataris has confirmed there are 85 percent this week of their pre-war capacity at head in a similar situ.

56:33 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to be tied directly to whether or not Trump [SPEAKER_01]: physically signs that I mean he said he physically signed that document sitting at the dining table with a dinner table I saw a video of him doing his hilarious because well if you know a history I mean for a sire's place to sign some kind of treaty But then then they've said that they're supposed to have an actual signing in Switzerland that was supposed to happen today or tomorrow and as a recording This it's been called off so now there is no [SPEAKER_01]: A bit confusing, but all I say is that airline fares are not currently tied to whether or not there is a signature on some form of interim peace deal, MOU, a 60 day thing.

57:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I just feel that I've said this on the podcast before, Trump doesn't love to work in summer, and I think we see this quite a term time president, and I think he will go quiet and things may go quiet. [SPEAKER_01]: over the traditional Northern Hemisphere summer months and then I don't know what's up Timber.

57:28 [SPEAKER_01]: He has planned for us. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a one-to-sights video going around. [SPEAKER_01]: She's doing a stand-up tour and she's talking about how she misses 2016-term one-trump. [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, she's impersonating him and he's saying, I'm gonna build a wall and she's saying, are you gonna build a big beautiful wall?

57:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you build a wall? [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it was just much more [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, rhetoric rather than things that affected the price of gas, the price of generally all the price of fairs. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, love one dislikes, I agree that the thing is I don't necessarily hope, well, I'm not saying I hope, but I don't necessarily think that this means, okay, it's all over everything's fine now.

58:12 [SPEAKER_00]: airline prices. [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, airlines will take the opportunity to charge more whenever they can. [SPEAKER_00]: Oil prices are still higher relatively speaking. [SPEAKER_00]: So the Gulf Airlines that have maybe had lower prices are of course going to try to raise the prices and see what they can get away with.

58:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think prices are going to skyrocket in the coming weeks, but I also don't think they're going to go down. [SPEAKER_01]: True. [SPEAKER_01]: true. [SPEAKER_01]: Well with that we shall wrap and we'll reconvene same time, same place. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe not the same time because it's Friday this week so we'll hopefully be on a schedule again next week and we look forward to having you join us then sending your questions, comments, feedback, compliments, criticism.

58:53 [SPEAKER_01]: We welcome everything. [SPEAKER_01]: It's to our Instagram at on-air with Dan and Alex. [SPEAKER_01]: You can leave a comment on this episode on Spotify and also on YouTube where many of you are [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we will see you all in the next one. [SPEAKER_00]: Bye bye. [SPEAKER_01]: See you later.