Viral 777 Low Pass Backlash, Ryanair Controversy, Power Bank Bans

0:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Dan and I'm Alex and welcome back to on air wherever you get your podcast we are pleased to have you with us as part of the journey. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi Dan, how's it going? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm good, I'm better finally, how are you? [SPEAKER_01]: Good, that was my next question which is how you holding up.

0:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Bless the listeners, many were in touch deeply concerned by the state of affairs when it came to one of the podcast hosts. [SPEAKER_01]: And we don't like, I don't want to say a week down. [SPEAKER_01]: We don't like a down that doesn't have full strength because I don't believe that you were weak.

0:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I just think that you won 110% as we exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: We went to the doctor on Friday and we're like, yeah, we were just in Bali and immediately they're like, [SPEAKER_00]: Have you heard of Bolly Belly and I'm like, yes, everyone has heard of Bolly Belly, you don't Seriously everyone in that kid people who've never been to Bolly, know about Bolly Belly [SPEAKER_00]: literally it's uh anyway so now we're we're mending I've posted so many videos the past like 10 days to weeks has that been a was that planned or because I noticed this as well you're just flooding the feeds on YouTube YouTube keeps recommended me perhaps the new video from nonstop down and I keep responding perhaps not.

1:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Do not recommend this channel. [SPEAKER_01]: Seriously, like it's not enough, it's like it just in my face. [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's, you know, sometimes external circumstances mean that I have to post a certain times, but it worked out and I was so excited to get the Delta video out, my latest one because it was, I mean, this was several months ago, but it was quite an eye-opening [SPEAKER_00]: I realized this was when I truly decided U.S. airlines are taking a back at least from European airlines.

1:58 [SPEAKER_00]: If we start there, I'm sure you've observed, observed as well over our lifetimes, how there's this like there's peaks and troughs in terms of the state and quality of different airlines and in general I find that [SPEAKER_00]: the European Airlines always have their peak when the US Airlines are in their trough.

2:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And now it's say the US Airlines are sort of reaching their peak for the moment and the European Airlines are down in the trenches with inferior seats and inferior lounges and all this stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: I agree. [SPEAKER_01]: I think, well, I agree to an extent given that it is not across the board, but those cycles definitely exist.

2:44 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true. [SPEAKER_01]: And especially when this time of year is quite revealing because it's at this time of year that the most number of Americans fly non-American carriers because a lot of them are coming to Europe for summer and so [SPEAKER_01]: perhaps they're taking flights within Shengen, across Europe, short-haul flights and so on.

3:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And you always see, don't you own social media, the shock and the outrage where they're like, they say that Europeans are elite, you know, they don't even have ice, apparently like ice on board or that the aircraft, you know, like the cabin is hot or that it's, you know, again, the classic, you know, we booked business class, what the hell is this middle seat, [SPEAKER_01]: I do think that perhaps the noise at this time of year is louder because there are more Americans experiencing what we know is normal in Europe at the same time, you're right.

3:41 [SPEAKER_01]: There is definitely strength in [SPEAKER_01]: the U.S. carriers at the moment, and that, you know, they have a million problems, but their strengths exist, and their strengths are there on the back of record profits that have been, that has been the case since 2022. [SPEAKER_01]: So there has been that reinvestment, thankfully, cabin products and all the customer touchpoints and everything you're seeing.

4:00 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I'd agree generally with that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's always fun because these Delta one lounges were truly spectacular. [SPEAKER_00]: I was really, really impressed. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think small things that we, for example, we take for granted that airline lounges, the food is almost never freshly cooked.

4:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It's prepared somewhere else. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just not, [SPEAKER_00]: Fresh. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it can be nice, but it just does not have like a very fresh quality, but here everything is freshly prepared by chefs and especially the LA lounge. [SPEAKER_00]: I just know that you would go crazy for it because there we were with our avocado toast, our Asai bowls.

4:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, are like cow smoothies and it was so we're sitting outdoors by the way with a vote the Hollywood Hills like this is Are you a real estate agent? [SPEAKER_01]: Can I buy what you're describing? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, literally. [SPEAKER_00]: I wish we could because it was such a yeah, just such a pleasure to see what is possible and it's also nice wasn't the last time you experience that it wasn't it dark, I remember you sending me.

5:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so we left as the sun was rising so we could just see the outside of the Hollywood Hills. [SPEAKER_00]: or the outline, but it's nice to see that everything good does not have to be concentrated in Asia in the Middle East when it comes to Asia. [SPEAKER_00]: You can spread out the fun across the world.

5:37 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's stick to the U.S. and perhaps we'll quickly pivot now to the video that I'm sure has made its way into the feeds and [SPEAKER_01]: of definitely of our listeners that are more likely to have an aviation driven algorithm. [SPEAKER_01]: But also this has cut through to everyone because this video won't completely viral.

5:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And the video I'm talking about, of course, is the Boeing 7 crazy low pass that was caught on camera over horse shoe bay resort in Texas. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the video in the AI age, very easy. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just quickly say, yep, it's AI. [SPEAKER_01]: And in fact, so many people, including reputable aviation individuals, just did not believe this video was real, because of the way that it was so unrealistic.

6:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So unthinkable, so extraordinary that, of course, it could only have been AI right. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, [SPEAKER_01]: it wasn't it was okay let me ask you I didn't send it did I send it to you no so no I let you know everywhere yeah I let see it I let you walk on your own two feet right and let it come to you and I waited for your reaction I haven't even even had did you think it was real the first time you'd seen this [SPEAKER_00]: I did just because of where it was spreading so then you know it's you know a legitimate thing that's been fact checked but it does look crazy and what frustrated me so much is I was like how in twenty twenty six is the quality of this video so poor I want to watch this in four k and zoom in who is recording this and why are there iPhone settings completely off.

7:20 [SPEAKER_01]: also interestingly we haven't seen any other angles so it seems that there is only just this this one video but but for those that haven't seen it on on the 24th of June just a few days ago a a boring triple seven which is a converted former passenger aircraft it's a 17 year old ex delta triple seven currently owned by jet train they are a lesser essentially a leasing company [SPEAKER_01]: work with the suppliers that convert passenger aircraft into cargo aircraft.

7:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So it gives a new lease of life in essence to pass a new aircraft that perhaps would otherwise struggle to sell on the second-hand market to have a new passenger chapter with another airline instead. [SPEAKER_01]: What they do is companies like this work with different partners to convert.

8:14 [SPEAKER_01]: passenger aircraft like this triple seven into a cargo aircraft there is big demand for cargo globally of course there is the boom in e-commerce and it's an efficient cheap away to be able to quickly enter a new cargo aircraft into the fleet as opposed to having to go down the conventional route which more airlines which [SPEAKER_01]: cargo aircraft to fall off of the, uh, come off of the production line and can't become available to them.

8:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So on the 24th of June, a few days ago, a converted triple 700 LR owned by jet-tran, formerly an adult aircraft customer. [SPEAKER_01]: It's destined for Qatar always cargo. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's wearing the full Qatar delivery for, for Qatar cargo. [SPEAKER_01]: but it's owned by jet-tran, made an extreme low pass over Hawthorough Bay Resort Jet Center in Texas.

9:15 [SPEAKER_01]: The video you'll see the aircraft coming in extremely low, perhaps the lowest ever, that's [SPEAKER_01]: less than 25 feet above the ground with the landing gear raised meaning that's the definition of this of this low pass because so the belly of the aircraft is less than 25 feet away from the surface of the runway and then the wing tip is just within single digit feet of the ground [SPEAKER_01]: to exit the manoeuvre of the low pass and then begin climbing.

10:02 [SPEAKER_01]: This aircraft, this manoeuvre, for reasons that are unclear with the motivations as to why this low pass was conducted in this way remain unclear. [SPEAKER_01]: It seems that it was some form of stunt of the flight crew the pilots. [SPEAKER_01]: There are all kind of scenarios as to perhaps they were saying goodbye to XYZ, [SPEAKER_01]: but this stunt, which I think almost certainly will be deemed as illegal and the FAA and now investigating, was seconds away from disaster, inches away, perhaps, from a very violent disaster and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and

10:42 [SPEAKER_01]: has just shocked the aviation industry, the less or jet-tran confirming that the video was authentic. [SPEAKER_01]: Stress that the aircraft was on a pre-delivery test flight, by the way, extreme low-passes are not part of a test flight campaign. [SPEAKER_01]: For any airliner, not least a big cargo aircraft like this, and jet-tran, of course, having to quickly say that this aircraft is not yet owned, [SPEAKER_01]: like heteros but rather it is just with them they are the next customer for this aircraft and mammoth who also involved in the as I said in the conversion also saying that they were not involved this is purely and primarily a jet-trand problem and a horrible of course for the airline customer who wake up and see this video of an aircraft in their full

11:39 [SPEAKER_01]: performing in the most outrageous, unthinkable stunt that goes viral, and the thing is is that this video will live on now forever, but the context will not. [SPEAKER_01]: So while everyone is quite aware now that, oh, this is an aircraft that is set to be delivered to this airline, you know, tell that to YouTube in four years when this goes viral all over again, because one bigger [SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is what I've been thinking about throughout this is how social media, I mean, it's my job, but it really ruins everything because we cannot deny that a part of this, I think, is the pilot going, okay, we want to make an epic stun for an epic.

12:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Video it although only one person recorded it. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like surely this is not just For the people who were there on location right it reminds me of this Iceland air thing that happened last month Did you see that we're [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, we're here to hear you live at the hometowns houses.

12:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and it's like this is Seems to be occurring more and more and some pilots they interviewed about this seem to agree that there's like a reckless attitude of like I'm in charge. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to do something epic. [SPEAKER_00]: There's no passengers on board. [SPEAKER_00]: It's fine, but one of these days It will have serious consequences [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just so unnecessary.

13:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Why we have established safety procedures for a reason and it made for a crazy video, but the point of flying a triple seven is not to make crazy videos. [SPEAKER_00]: It's to get an aircraft on this cargo safely from point A to point B. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're right. [SPEAKER_01]: And remember that there is precedent right.

13:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So the the A 320 accident that was with their France that made this promotional low pass in 1988 and after it had, you know, it was a real low pass and then it crashed and it killed passengers and it injured many and it was, you know, a really kind of debated. [SPEAKER_01]: scenario because that the captain was arguing that the tragedy was as a result of the new fly by wire concept as it was new back then, and that the aircraft he claimed the aircraft failed to respond correctly to throttled demands and so on, the [SPEAKER_01]: official inquiry concluded that it was pilot error that it was the judgement taken by the flight crew who flew dangerously low and slow and fell to realise the proximity of the forest which was just ahead and delayed applying the go around full thrust and and in fact actually I'm quite sure it ended let me just check yes so five individuals including the captain

14:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, the captain survived. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a miracle. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: The, the subsequent. [SPEAKER_01]: French criminal trials it says here of the flight crew set a highly controversial precedent for holding pilots criminal criminally liable for air disasters blah blah blah so it became kind of a bit broader but but i mean in the grass human things yeah you're right this has been done for a video right this has been done for a click it's been done to go viral what i can't understand for me the most bill-walledering thing perhaps actually isn't the low pass itself which itself is bill-walledering and flight radar

15:07 [SPEAKER_01]: were really proactive in publishing the data on this and showing that the lowest ADSB reading was corrected to roughly 0 to 20 feet above the ground. [SPEAKER_01]: Essentially like it's almost too low to pick up the exact [SPEAKER_01]: altitude because there was no altitude. [SPEAKER_01]: Does aircraft was barely airborne, airborne.

15:32 [SPEAKER_00]: If the year has been down, I want to basically have been touching the ground all over. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm perhaps, perhaps it would have, yeah, I mean, it wouldn't have been able to go, I was like, this is the purpose of it being up, right? [SPEAKER_01]: For me, just to come back to that point, I can't believe that the pilots could enter the flight deck, coordinate that they're going to do this extreme maneuver, [SPEAKER_01]: It not once enter the head and thinking, do you think we should be doing this in an aircraft?

16:01 [SPEAKER_01]: that has the delivery of an airline that this aircraft is about to go and fly with because you're like, what honestly, and this is the US, the airline's a question should sue them. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not joking. [SPEAKER_00]: They like, they should 100% do it. [SPEAKER_00]: There's no reason not to because this is like brain damage out of beyond her own.

16:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I say this is like, yeah, for what? [SPEAKER_01]: And they must [SPEAKER_01]: for God's sake, you know, could have been anything like, especially the Middle East, which has a really tight like with the Gulf carriers, they're really, really strict with their safety protocols and so on, and also how the brand appears, right?

16:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So they have all different, you know, Emirates, you won't see a crew walking through the terminal without the red hat, you know, Qatar, similar thing [SPEAKER_01]: are on at all times in blah blah, whenever they're being seen in public. [SPEAKER_01]: These are airlines that care a lot about where safety also meets brand image and reputation.

17:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And for, I mean, for this to not even cross the mind of anyone involved, but then of course to an American, it doesn't cross their mind. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, I like you say that as the American other part, but yeah, but it's, um, yeah, that was pretty extreme guys. [SPEAKER_01]: If you haven't [SPEAKER_01]: triple 7 low pass, 7 low pass, and you'll be shocked, but we can confirm, yes, it is real.

17:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to move over to Europe now for the EU is making some [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you somewhat say enhancements, somewhat say changes to current legislation. [SPEAKER_00]: Part of it is for EU 261 compensation. [SPEAKER_00]: If your flight is delayed or canceled, whereby last year there were rumors, they were going to make it more restrictive, because it's very generous.

17:58 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, they've made it more generous. [SPEAKER_00]: So great for consumers, but at that end of the day, this is going to call Stairline's a fortune. [SPEAKER_00]: That's another topic. [SPEAKER_00]: Something else they've been legislating is mandatory carolans for all passengers and mandatory family seating.

18:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So families should not be separated on aircraft and force to pay if they want to sit together. [SPEAKER_00]: Which airline charges for carolans on all tickets and charges families to sit together? [SPEAKER_00]: Brian air of course. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. [SPEAKER_00]: So you mean he is fuming.

18:40 [SPEAKER_00]: What is what is Michael Leary saying about this? [SPEAKER_01]: He's saying that all of this is pure theater. [SPEAKER_01]: He says he'll reluctantly adjust to this new industry standard rather than waste time explaining to misguided regulators. [SPEAKER_01]: And then he accuses all those regulators of ignoring the rival's high fairs and notes that this, you know, Ryanair are quite transparent.

19:03 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to pay for everything including if you want to sit together, but essentially from the 25th of June the other day, Ryanair dropped the de facto family seating fee, which was around £8.10 USD per adult each way. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is after the CMA opened a consumer law probe on whether it was an unfair contract term since only families were effectively forced to pay for the assignment.

19:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, this does have a bit of a ryan out to us because families who don't pay now get free adjacent seats. [SPEAKER_01]: allocated only after checking and they know that they'll be towards the rear of the cabin because the front roads are going to be reclassified as premium and I mean it's you know this is where the aggressive and silvery structure of Ryanair just meets increasing I mean I don't it's called human consumer rights I guess yeah in terms of you know it's not a human right [SPEAKER_01]: your family member on an aircraft.

20:09 [SPEAKER_01]: At the same time, there was just no reason for an airline to actively try to keep you separate and Ryanair does do that. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just so petty, like forgot to say, if you're a family of four, why are you putting the seven-year-old in row 12 and then mother in row 18 and it's just unnecessary stress and I think the ground handing agents and the passenger service staff.

20:34 [SPEAKER_01]: who work at airports and handle Ryan Flights will probably be relieved because it does take up time having to sort out these issues and passengers don't want to feel that they've had to pay for the basic thing of sitting next to their minor who should have be sitting next to anyone else in the first place.

20:54 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do go back to, I mean, okay, this is a bit, you [SPEAKER_01]: throughout school, primary school, especially, we would always be back and forth almost every weekend to Southern Europe. [SPEAKER_01]: And it would either be like easy jet or monarch, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And it was apples were quiet, fairs were low, and it was just very, very easy, smooth experience until it until, like I said, once became more aggressive and it was competition and it ramped up [SPEAKER_01]: because we used to book so last minute.

21:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I would constantly as a kid be sat alone. [SPEAKER_01]: So it would be like Marmin Row 2, I'd been like Row 4, Sister in Row 6, Father in Row 8. [SPEAKER_01]: It would that's always how it would be because we would book so last minute there would not be seats together. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is specifically applicable to Monarch because at the time, easy jet, it was free seating.

22:00 [SPEAKER_01]: So we used to, if you like, could get on fast enough, you could, oh, that was stressful. [SPEAKER_00]: It was the first model, the old model. [SPEAKER_01]: They did the Southwest model, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember, you know, I was like the seven year old with helies, so I was definitely the fastest to the gate.

22:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I was like standing there at the front. [SPEAKER_01]: And you don't use to drive me crazy. [SPEAKER_01]: I was a really small seven year old. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, because we were twins and so we were just really small as kids and Oh my god, it used to frustrate me when they're, you know, let's say they're open for boarding and I'd see the gay agent their eyes go to the adult behind me and I'm like, hello down here Bye I'm burning first.

22:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm boarding first so that I can go and get the the seats and then I'd have this strategy of boarding [SPEAKER_01]: and taking the RC and putting my bag in the middle and then looking busy, so like you're rummaging and you're sorting and then people wouldn't take that row because well, that's the other's a kid there, but that's how I'd reserve it for the family.

22:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, to go back to the point, the allocated seating flights and because we would book so late, I would constantly sit by myself and I was seven, [SPEAKER_01]: or 8 or 9 and I cannot tell you how many wonderful conversations I would have with the passenger next to me. [SPEAKER_01]: In that, you know, I would have the show was sad, but yeah, I'm so genuinely, we would be to aviation, geopolitics, you know, Sembrot addicts.

23:33 [SPEAKER_01]: You think he has a chance? [SPEAKER_01]: You think Obama has a chance? [SPEAKER_01]: And seven year, yeah, that was in no eight. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I remember that. [SPEAKER_01]: And seven year old Alex had a lot of simpler conversations to now 30 road addicts. [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.

23:45 [SPEAKER_01]: But. [SPEAKER_01]: I do think the world is probably now a bit of a different place. [SPEAKER_01]: It is a different place. [SPEAKER_01]: It is an far less comfortable with the idea of a kid not sitting with a parent sitting with someone else's parents instead. [SPEAKER_01]: Nowadays, that just seems like no way.

24:05 [SPEAKER_01]: That was this unacceptable. [SPEAKER_01]: God only knows who that's sent next to. [SPEAKER_01]: He's in appropriate what if there's what if that, whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm going to put my hand up and say like the innocence of back then, I used to enjoy the independence of sitting in the middle and, you know, no choice couldn't sit with the fan and would often have very nice conversations where I would want to hear.

24:30 [SPEAKER_01]: the political or whatever thoughts of, no, it realizes his niche and unusual, that's why I said that. [SPEAKER_01]: Of the stranger next to me, and there were always like frequent flyers, second home owners. [SPEAKER_01]: We'd see the same people on the flight constantly. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, for me it was fine, but I think in 2026 onwards, no.

24:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, and also in continental Europe with all the languages, it's often times you can't speak to the person next to you. [SPEAKER_00]: But the interesting part of this change is that it negatively affects those families that would have paid for seats before, because how it used to work is that only one adult would have to pay for a seat.

25:11 [SPEAKER_00]: You could select one, you could select [SPEAKER_00]: Any row you want and the kids would be automatically assigned to sit by the parent space on what I've read for free But now if you want to sit, you know, not near the back You need to pay for every person including the kids to get the seats you want so Reiner says because of this change [SPEAKER_00]: the the loss of revenue will actually be mitigated by the increase in revenue from now charging for every person if you want to use where to sit.

25:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So I find that interesting how it's plus well right now it's always going to have an interesting way to you know to try to ensure that's monetizing even those policies but don't you think [SPEAKER_01]: It matters less on Ryanair if you're sitting at the back because Ryanair typically don't use jet bridges and they utilize Yeah, they utilize both doors.

26:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So they they disembark passengers. [SPEAKER_01]: You can get off pretty fast From the rear it matters far more if you're flying British Showers and you'll set up the back Where you'll be using a jet bridge and then you'll be waiting for the whole aircraft to disembark before it's your turn [SPEAKER_00]: That's true.

26:21 [SPEAKER_00]: That's true. [SPEAKER_00]: Although in general, I mean, each aircraft has slightly different pitches in each row. [SPEAKER_00]: But if you look at Ryanair, for example, their 737 max has an extra inch of pitch through row 16. [SPEAKER_00]: And after that, it goes down to just 28 inches.

26:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's little things like that. [SPEAKER_00]: But then again, if you're sitting next to small kids, you kind of get extra like room because of that anyway. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's have a quick public service announcement at this point since it is summer. [SPEAKER_01]: We don't need to dwell, but we want to deliver you the headline.

26:59 [SPEAKER_01]: The UK Civil Aviation Authority, sticking with the UK for the moment, has reported a 98% jump in Lithium battery overheating events on aircraft between 2024 and 2025. [SPEAKER_01]: And most of that in simple terms that are your power banks right overheating with incorrectly packed devices in checked baggage now up 91% the you know the fact is that I think half the pass just still don't know that lithium batteries are banned from the hold so you can't be putting your your your power bank just in the check luggage and then hoping all will [SPEAKER_01]: in the cargo hold and then God only knows what can follow that.

27:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's the risk there. [SPEAKER_01]: But also with an average of four devices each, the Civil Aviation Authority estimates that over 2000, [SPEAKER_01]: on an A380 for example. [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, that translates to over 2,000 devices on a busy A380. [SPEAKER_01]: Hundreds, probably below deck, probably in the cargo hold in luggage.

28:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And the cabin fire risk is real. [SPEAKER_01]: The cargo hold fire risk is real. [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, we're already seeing this trickle down to our lines. [SPEAKER_01]: BA has banned power banks from overhead bins. [SPEAKER_01]: has banned them, has banned in seat charging of power banks, which is, you know, again, I think we're just going to see more more.

28:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I do think we might get to a scenario where power banks are just banned on aircraft. [SPEAKER_01]: You can't travel with you. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which is going to be difficult for for traveling. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that that is, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you and I both travel with power banks, um, I have multiple, yeah, I mean, in that case, we need a Asia model where you have rental power banks wherever you go starting at the airport that you can return anywhere in the city.

28:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Hong Kong, you pick one up at the airport, you can trade it in every two hours at any seven eleven and make it so cheap and so convenient. [SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like in Europe, [SPEAKER_00]: It would inevitably lead to theft and they'd have to collect huge deposits and there would be loads of issues.

29:14 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like Europe, Europe means theft. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, let's be honest, in Asia, I think the odds of someone stealing one of those is smaller. [SPEAKER_00]: In China, they collect deposits, but in a lot of other places. [SPEAKER_00]: In China, they collect deposits. [SPEAKER_01]: Great.

29:29 [SPEAKER_01]: In China, also, they follow a similar model that you can go to many cities like Hong Kong, where [SPEAKER_01]: you they're everywhere they're in restaurants you can pick them up drop them off it's like a line bike or a cross China and return it on five hours away in the same country like it is so convenient true China is also part of the problem which is the funny thing because China have the solution and at the same time they are absolutely you know mass filtering all of [SPEAKER_01]: everywhere into the global supply chain and that's why you can you can be in the smallest town wherever in the world and if there is some kind of Saturday market you can bet your bottom dollar they will be selling I don't know I came up with the Annie quote they will be selling selling these cheap awful power banks which are which have not gone through the same processes the likes that anchor and others will have and a way more prone to catching fire

30:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, listen to this. [SPEAKER_00]: So when I was flying home through China as we spoke about in the spring, I had a Chinese-made power bank from one of the biggest brands in the world, and they confiscated it. [SPEAKER_00]: At security, I want what do you mean, look, it's made in China.

30:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, no, it needs to have the triple C rating, and I'm like, what's that? [SPEAKER_00]: I've never heard of that. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the only rating that's certified to fly on planes in China. [SPEAKER_00]: So go figure, and now I've read into this, there are very few power banks that are triple C rated, which is like the top of the world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world's world

31:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So according to the Chinese, the top safety certification, but most big, so most like Chinese power bank products that are sold in China will have that certification, but the same product sold outside of China will not, which is crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: So like wow. [SPEAKER_01]: So they get cares to buy a stock elsewhere.

31:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's what I read into this. [SPEAKER_00]: But basically, yeah, now I only, I've replaced all my power banks with power banks that's, have triple C, so I know I don't have to worry wherever I go, that they're a flight safe. [SPEAKER_01]: So for example, my anchor power bank in my bag right now would that have that rating?

31:49 [SPEAKER_00]: No, they took my power, my anchor bank, that's what they took. [SPEAKER_01]: So there is no like, there are no anchor products. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, these are the triple C ones. [SPEAKER_01]: These are the on triple C variants. [SPEAKER_00]: If you go on Amazon, UK, you want to search power bank, CCC rated or something, then you'll find [SPEAKER_00]: The brands and specific products that have that certification in Europe But you'll find the most of the time even if it says flight safe or whatever It's not China flight safe even though they're made in China Let's say and then of course, okay, so I'm assuming Europe have their own scenario with this.

32:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So wouldn't I prefer mind to be kind of EU safety certified rather than China safety certified [SPEAKER_00]: Well, remember that you, they don't actually check like for a specific certification as far as I'm aware in Europe. [SPEAKER_00]: That's why they don't ask you to take your power bank out of your bag, whereas in China, they always ask, say it with a, is if you have a computer, do you have a power bank?

32:49 [SPEAKER_00]: You need to take it out because they're going to inspect it. [SPEAKER_00]: So, it needs to get to a point, I guess, where every country is inspecting the power bank. [SPEAKER_00]: So, we've spoken about this at that point, maybe it's just best to ban them. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not sustainable yet.

33:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I do think we're on gone, gone. [SPEAKER_00]: And expand the rental model, as what I was going to say. [SPEAKER_01]: No, 100% I just think we're on the way to a full ban. [SPEAKER_01]: I think every month, if we take another step closer to a full power bank ban, [SPEAKER_01]: It's a nightmare, it's a safety risk, and we understand that people's devices need charge, you know, Dan and I are at the front of that queue, for sure, but at the same time, when you explain the risks, not that the risk of something that, you know, that could happen, that is risk in general, right?

33:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But rather, these things are happening, and we're almost normalizing now, scrolling past a video of just another overhead locker on fire in the middle [SPEAKER_01]: It's constant, it's not Spain every day, but it's on the up and anyway, that's the public service announcement from on air for the summer travel.

33:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Check your power bank to make sure they're high quality. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, interestingly, did I tell you about the wine? [SPEAKER_01]: Did I tell you about their power bank that I kept in a drawer and it's swollen? [SPEAKER_00]: No, was that scary? [SPEAKER_01]: So, I had a power bank, again, it was an anchor one, and it has been in my desk drawer for a while, and I came across it the other day and it's double the size.

34:22 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just absolutely swollen. [SPEAKER_01]: It's been bitten by a stung by a bee, right? [SPEAKER_01]: It's fat in the middle, and it was a slimline power bank. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, what the hell? [SPEAKER_01]: So then I was like, okay, I need to get rid of this. [SPEAKER_01]: Then I was also a bit worried about where I get rid of it because like what if it just starts combusting or, you know, yes.

34:48 [SPEAKER_01]: So then I spoke to the hotel and said, look, I just want to be really transparent. [SPEAKER_01]: This could be a safety risk, I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: So where do you want to dispose of it? [SPEAKER_01]: And so they said, okay, we'll handle it. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't worry, they did that.

34:59 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that was just in the desk drawer. [SPEAKER_01]: So then I was thinking, God, what does happen to, [SPEAKER_01]: Imagine all the power banks that live in people's suitcases all year round, including when they travel. [SPEAKER_01]: They never take it out. [SPEAKER_01]: If you know like the outer lining of the suitcase, the outer pockets, the god, there must be thousands.

35:17 [SPEAKER_01]: That's also a risk. [SPEAKER_01]: Take your outer pockets, guys. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't be carrying around these BS power banks because, you know, it's just too risky. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is. [SPEAKER_00]: With that, let's go into Q&A. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do it. [SPEAKER_00]: Alright, so we'll start out here with a very fun message from Yelan, who says there's this post going viral on Instagram, where Japan Airlines tells you where children are sitting on board and he says, is this true?

35:50 [SPEAKER_00]: If so, can we have it with dogs so we can sit next to them instead of a baby? [SPEAKER_00]: I agree. [SPEAKER_01]: I love to sit next to a dog. [SPEAKER_00]: But this is, in fact, [SPEAKER_00]: true that Japan Airlines specifically, if you book an infant, so between eight days old, which is the youngest, they're allowed to fly on Japan Airlines in two years old, if you book them their own seat and not as a lap infant, [SPEAKER_00]: The airline marks on the seat now when you're choosing a seat that there is an infant seated there talk about a contrast from the Ryan air thing we spoke about just a few minutes ago, but I love this I think it's an amazing concept It's technologically slightly complicated for the airline to do

36:35 [SPEAKER_00]: but it's good to know that okay let's make this the kids zone maybe we have kids let's it close to these kids we don't have kids let's sit far from this baby. [SPEAKER_01]: I think this is great as well I wonder if this could ever extend beyond the far east because would GDPR in Europe allow this to know oh there's a kid there and then there would be all kinds of discussion and forums about [SPEAKER_01]: You know, again, it's the more sinister side of life, right?

37:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody who's specifically wants to sit next to a kid. [SPEAKER_01]: So there's like, oh, it becomes very, very murky. [SPEAKER_01]: The moment you leave Japan, I guess, but in a nutshell, yeah, I was a red that even for families, they would prefer this, because it takes the pressure off of them, like, if that happened to be sat next to, [SPEAKER_01]: individuals that really don't want to be sat next to a baby, then they'd rather be sat next to other families with young children, because we're all in this together kind of vibe.

37:37 [SPEAKER_00]: We have another question here from a somewhat, who says, after watching Dan's reviews of Riyadh Air, I'm sorry, but what was the point of launching another airline? [SPEAKER_00]: Couldn't they achieve the same goals with a premium heavy Saudi subfleet based on Riyadh? [SPEAKER_00]: I assume that they would [SPEAKER_00]: By using the best-in-class configuration like premium economy being two three two instead like Eva air EVA air more pitch and business, etc.

38:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, interesting point, we discussed this, what is the point of having rear air being separate from Saudiia? [SPEAKER_00]: Potentially, they think that this is going to put the name re-ad on the world stage. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a new fresh start compared to this legacy airline Saudi, that used to be really hardcore or religious airline just a decade ago.

38:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I assume those things are part of the equation. [SPEAKER_00]: But I agree, I agree with this sentiment as well. [SPEAKER_01]: It could have been a rebrand, but there is enough room for there is plenty of room for another island, especially with the population, the size of Saudi Arabia and the fact that it isn't very well connected in terms of long haul nonstop routes.

38:58 [SPEAKER_01]: There is scope for a new airline brand, and especially that they are anchoring Saudi [SPEAKER_01]: It's, I understand the business model on the business case for not just rebranding Saudi, although to answer your question, of course they could have. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we have a question from Stan, who says that he loved the late steps of the podcast when we were being a bit nostalgic about what we used to fly up when we were younger.

39:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Stan says, I too have memories of an airliner from [SPEAKER_01]: with its engines removed. [SPEAKER_01]: And then he says, the question he has for the podcast, as in Barbway is actually resuming flights from Harari to London, Gatwick on the first of July. [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks to an ACMI agreement with Charter Alumni plus Altra of Spain.

39:51 [SPEAKER_01]: This is after a 14-year absence. [SPEAKER_01]: The current journey time stand notes is between 17 to 24-hour trips to the UK via the Middle East or Johannesburg or Addis. [SPEAKER_01]: question from Stan, do you think there is a chance for small airlines like as in Bobway to make a route like this work in the long term?

40:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't think it's going to work financially, but it might be, let's see, are they owned by, they don't seem to be government owned to be honest, I don't, oh it is owned by the government of Zimbabwe. [SPEAKER_00]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: The government can undertake this route as something they're willing to subsidize in order to have direct connectivity to the UK, which is valuable and other ways besides just the looping profitable per se.

40:43 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is really, we're talking a miniscule airline here with a current fleet of one 737-200, not a 300 or 400-500. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a 200, one of the first generations of 737 and an ATR-42, which is also quite an old aircraft at this point. [SPEAKER_00]: So, not the type of airline you'd expect to fly to London to say the least.

41:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it's one of those things where if the government is willing to subsidize it, of course it has value to people and it's important to have connectivity, but no way this is making money. [SPEAKER_01]: This is great news and there is definitely a market for this service and it's, you know, the size of the Zimbabwean communities in the UK, the convenience of cutting the journey time of course, but the challenge won't be demand is going to be making the economics work consistently, right?

41:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Because long-haul routes are very expensive to operate. [SPEAKER_01]: As Zimbabwewe will need [SPEAKER_01]: At the same time, it will need to be able to offer competitive fairs, and that's difficult given the operational overheads of flying to a place like London, that will need reliable OTP, that's the on-time performance, that will need to explore cargo opportunities to ensure that the business underneath remains profitable, I mean, using a partner, like plus Otra, who are going to go operating the flights, is definitely [SPEAKER_01]: a smarter, kind of, a lower risk away to test the market without fully committing to buying or leasing it.

42:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're trying to find my way across. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I mean, if demand proves sustainable, and you know, there's scope for it to become something of a long-term, you know, solid route, a success in the economic growth speaking, but if not, then [SPEAKER_01]: perhaps they explore something more seasonal or reduced frequencies, I just think to kind of summarise, yeah, it's a decent step, but the key question is going to be whether or not the Alan can consistently [SPEAKER_01]: feel the aircraft beyond that initial kind of month of excitement and, yeah, there's a nonstop way to get there because there's people going to be comparing it to the golf car as they're going to sell, but it's cheaper to fly via, you know, via Turkey, Eastern Bulva, the golf virus, via Dysvide, your hands back or ever, and that conversation, if it doesn't filter into bookings, then you're on shaky territory.

43:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what's also interesting is, if you think about how Rewand Air launched their London flights, they started doing it through Brussels. [SPEAKER_00]: And that, you know, adding a fifth freedom like that, or just a tag on, a lot of smaller airlines do it because although it sort of removes part of the convenience factor, it also adds a destination for cargo and additional [SPEAKER_00]: So that may be something for this type of situation, I understand.

43:54 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true, and remember that the Rwanda is a good example, because the Rwanda government does really, it really spearheads Rwanda as like a strategic national asset that promotes Rwanda to the world and tourism and trade in investments. [SPEAKER_01]: So they have strong government backing there.

44:12 [SPEAKER_01]: They have strong cargo flows on the London route and the London route via Brussels. [SPEAKER_01]: And the fleet is pretty nicely right. [SPEAKER_01]: So I just call tap actually with Ivonne the CEO of Rwanda while I was in Rio 10 days ago at IRTRAGM. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's always was great to catch up with her because she has a great take on the industry.

44:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And she's a good friend. [SPEAKER_01]: And I like to see Rwanda go from strength to strength. [SPEAKER_01]: But even they have been in some, you know, some shaky territory as of late because of the complex operating environment and because of the way that the world changes and, you know, if the major carriers are struggling to stay agile and adapt, you can imagine the impacts being felt at the smaller carriers who are still trying to get that break.

45:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, precisely. [SPEAKER_00]: On that note, thank you for joining us so much to thank you so much I should say for joining us today on air. [SPEAKER_00]: Don't forget to rate the episode wherever you're listening to the podcast on apple podcasts or on Spotify. [SPEAKER_00]: Give us five stars if you are enjoying it and we will see you next week on air.

45:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye bye. [SPEAKER_01]: See you later.