Why Etihad and Condor's Partnership Makes No Sense

0:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Dan and I'm Alex and welcome back to honor it's another Wednesday, how are we doing? [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, you are sounding so much more upbeat than about 15 seconds ago, so I'm impressed what just happened as we press record and you managed to find the energy to do this. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm appreciative.

0:23 [SPEAKER_00]: All is well, how are you? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm good. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm enjoying summer. [SPEAKER_01]: I think you're enjoying it even more than me. [SPEAKER_01]: You're a summer maxing this year. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like these stupid TikTok social media style phrasing this phrase geology that has gone everywhere of this and also what did you say summer maxing?

0:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Summer maxing. [SPEAKER_01]: Does that even mean? [SPEAKER_01]: It means you're maxing the amount of summer you're enjoying. [SPEAKER_00]: just ridiculous, honestly, as if the concept of summer and everything that we associate with summer. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, none of it was a thing until Gen Z managed to put it all into a package, it all into a 10-second shiktok and then now it's the thing.

1:08 [SPEAKER_00]: We do know that gone. [SPEAKER_01]: Korean air is retiring. [SPEAKER_01]: There are some for seven, or at least it's not in the schedule yet. [SPEAKER_01]: There are some for seven dashi, past October. [SPEAKER_01]: So if anything, we should all be some for seven [SPEAKER_00]: I always say that we are sensible to a 380 max thing max.

1:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I had it was the singular use of it there. [SPEAKER_00]: God. [SPEAKER_00]: See, I'm not going to try it. [SPEAKER_00]: These are not real words. [SPEAKER_00]: These are these belong in the dictionary of brain rot. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: These are these are a bullshit words.

1:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, it's like when Chachubiti first came out and everyone out of nowhere. [SPEAKER_00]: Suddenly, apparently, [SPEAKER_00]: Well, frequent users of the word, foster, you know, we will foster engagement. [SPEAKER_00]: We will foster collaboration. [SPEAKER_00]: You can take your foster and anyway, I don't know where the sun don't shine.

2:04 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll just foster right off. [SPEAKER_01]: Listen, forget about the phrase, embrace the concept. [SPEAKER_01]: We should embrace the concept of maxing, and especially 747 maxing, E380 maxing, E340 maxing. [SPEAKER_00]: This is like- You might go to A340 maxing, let's pick about that. [SPEAKER_00]: We go until we go.

2:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So you've got that. [SPEAKER_00]: You're A340 maxed out if that's what we're saying. [SPEAKER_01]: The one thing we don't want to max is the 737. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's leave it at that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, the same gosh, I just had a conversation work wise, it was recorded where we were talking about how it's for a show coming up.

2:42 [SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about how the 737 Max crisis changed the direction of our tribal and so on. [SPEAKER_00]: And actually revisiting it all and going back to that period where [SPEAKER_00]: Lionair had that first 7-7-7 max incident and because it had taken place in Indonesia and Indonesia has a pretty poor safety record on the ground scheme of things when it comes to air travel There wasn't necessarily there weren't necessarily any questions about the 7-7-7 max [SPEAKER_00]: and then revisiting that timeline and the realisation of the Ethiopian aircraft just a few months later suffering in an almost identical way in terms of the profile of the crash and then that instant realisation [SPEAKER_00]: that the industry had seconds after you didn't even need to think about it.

3:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a thought to reaction, which was, oh my god, there was something wrong with Boeing's new best set of aircraft. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is not, this was not just a one-off accident in Lyon Air. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I've been a side track story, but I've been kind of revising all that in the last week, and that's been a bit heavy.

3:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It is so interesting because we don't talk about enough how the immediate reaction especially from Boeing. [SPEAKER_01]: was just so outright racist. [SPEAKER_01]: Just immediately, oh, it's their safety record. [SPEAKER_01]: There was no question. [SPEAKER_01]: Could there be something wrong with our aircraft?

4:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, there was behind the scenes, but like the convenient thing for them to do was to just immediately go out and trash a huge customer of theirs instead of try to, you know, figure out if something was actually wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then of course what we then saw is they still tried some of that just in the immediate hours after the Ethiopian accident, but as hour by hour kind of as you went from from 3pm to 4pm to 5 to 6 [SPEAKER_00]: what you saw was the rest of the world take action against the max before even the United States did before the FAA before buying themselves.

4:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So you saw other countries not even want to entertain the idea that this wasn't something to do with the aircraft and you saw that respective silver aviation authorities move to ban and suspend use of the aircraft pending some form of [SPEAKER_00]: concerns and and so on and and that again, you know, you're seeing the same thing with Boeing there in the hours after before they finally admitted, actually it came via Trump didn't it in his first time where Trump spoke at the Oval Office and said, we're going to ground the max.

5:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I think for a few days or a few weeks to see what's what's up with it and then if we know it was on the ground for years after that. [SPEAKER_01]: And we often don't talk about it, it's interesting to follow up the implications, especially for slightly smaller and more internationally unknown airlines, like Lyon Air, what happens after an incident like this?

5:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Lyon Air does not fly this 737 max 8 anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: They [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow, they even went to Batikir Malaysia, so they changed countries still within the subsidiary, but clearly line air, what, you know, the line of reason was we can't be seen flying this aircraft anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: They currently only have 4, 737 boxes in total, those are max 9s.

6:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Similarly, I mean, think about the German wings crash, which we've spoken about so many times. [SPEAKER_01]: very shortly after German when wings ceased to exist and became part of eurowing. [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, there's the implications on what aircraft airlines can operate and even airlines continuing to operate under the current brands can be hugely impacted just by one incident.

6:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're right. [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, the timing of that when the German wings brand was no more, you know, obviously also very deliberate because it did help them get that fresh start and distance themselves from what ultimately came up on the first page of Google when people were searching German wings.

6:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's true. [SPEAKER_00]: It extends well beyond flight numbers, which are typically usually [SPEAKER_00]: Interestingly, I half expected Singapore Airlines to retire the flight number SQ321, the one that was involved in the severe turbulence incident that somebody died and there were others left with lifelong injuries.

7:24 [SPEAKER_00]: but they didn't, but I just expected because Singapore is so conservative and so kind of gorgeous and careful with that, that when you do type in SQ321, which is an an overnight flight from London to Singapore, the S it shows you, it's flight status, I'm looking at it now, it's arriving shortly, but also [SPEAKER_00]: Everything beneath that is that these horrendous photos and footage of what happened on that one flight That makes a group of famous.

7:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like You know when you're Googling your flight number the rule should be if there's a Wikipedia page about that flight Maybe it's time for the airline to retire the flight number because you don't have someone to Google their flight status and then be like Oh, what why is there a Wikipedia page for it?

8:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And then find out there was an incident [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true, especially in the day and age that it's so easy now. [SPEAKER_00]: No, no longer is anyone. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, just go back 20 years ago and people were still using kind of dial-up phones, landlines to call the airline to check to manually check flight status or perhaps then a bit later to go on to the airport website to check the flight status.

8:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Now there is no need to even download the airline app or it's check you just type in the flight number into any search engine and everything is there after you press click search now, so that's a really really valid point. [SPEAKER_00]: Well let's pivot then into what happened in Chicago, which this called your attention and you ping this across to me, the flight number was 1076, thankfully nothing bad happened.

9:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is a bit of a thing every fourth of July isn't it? [SPEAKER_01]: I shouldn't be surprised given the when you see videos of fireworks in the US, but let's just start talking about fireworks in general, related to aviation because I can't be the only one who frequently wonders how is, for example, on New Year's Eve at midnight.

9:25 [SPEAKER_01]: How is there not a standstill of flights around the world when the clock strikes 12 and suddenly there's fireworks everywhere in the countries where people can fire them however they want? [SPEAKER_01]: or, you know, on national days. [SPEAKER_01]: I just find it crazy that in countries like Sweden, for example, where any civilian can just buy fireworks, shoot them up into the air that aircraft just continue flying like normal and nothing usually happens.

9:57 [SPEAKER_00]: It does seem this. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I can't figure out. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we know that there isn't [SPEAKER_00]: legislation that there isn't policy and so on. [SPEAKER_00]: So actually it just seems that it's one of those things where because nothing crazy or catastrophic has happened, it's just a thing.

10:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And then God forbid if something does happen, the world will think, well, how crazy that that was completely without regulation. [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of those things where it's going to take something to happen for there to be some kind of regulation around it, because [SPEAKER_00]: You're right.

10:26 [SPEAKER_00]: This reminds me of I was staying in a hotel years ago, and in the Middle East, and the GM, the general manager of the hotel at the time, knowing that I work in aviation, and the airport was, sorry, the hotel was located very close to the airport. [SPEAKER_00]: She said, um, I just want to check with the Alex, do you think it's okay if we launch fireworks from the roof tonight?

10:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And also she asked me these huge balloons. [SPEAKER_00]: So I said like do you have permission for that and she was like um I don't think we need to because previously there whoever had said that that we don't need to but given that the aircraft descend so low over our hotel but I didn't even let her finish the sentence I was like monica no no no no no no no way Also, I mean necessarily I'm quite sure that's illegal here, but but secondly no because of the flight path [SPEAKER_01]: What was the problem?

11:20 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what was crazy? [SPEAKER_00]: She asked, like, as I was on the way back from the gym. [SPEAKER_00]: I remember the next day thinking, What if I didn't come across her in that moment? [SPEAKER_00]: Would they have done it? [SPEAKER_00]: And you do see those weird scenarios. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's actually move to what we're talking about then.

11:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So basically, this was a Delta flight in A319. [SPEAKER_00]: pretty light load 52 passengers 6 crew and this Airbus aircraft was struck by a firework while descending into Chicago the midway airport. [SPEAKER_00]: It was about 200 to 250 feet from off of the ground. [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, it was on 4th of July, hence the fireworks, and thankfully the aircraft did land safely No injuries and nothing happening, but the pilots described a big bang quote on To the air traffic control and they were hoping that it was something else rather than a direct hit [SPEAKER_00]: The FAA confirmed that only minor paint damage was the only impact after the inspection, but then a south west aircraft was warned by a traffic control just moments later to mind the war zone conditions that Dota had just flown through again because it was the fourth of July and people even those on the final approach.

12:46 [SPEAKER_00]: to one of the busiest airports in the US were releasing fireworks to aircraft that were just a couple hundred feet off the ground. [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny you can't fly drones, coast to airports, but you can fire fireworks. [SPEAKER_01]: And luckily, as you said, nothing terrible happened.

13:07 [SPEAKER_01]: They noticed some damage upon landing, but this should be a bit of a wakeup call. [SPEAKER_01]: I think the U.S. has enough. [SPEAKER_01]: safety issues as it is with air traffic control and all that. [SPEAKER_01]: So I understand it's difficult to control what people are doing when there's a free market of fireworks and anyone can buy them, but it should certainly be a crime to fire fireworks close to an airport in my opinion, because it poses a real risk.

13:38 [SPEAKER_01]: You might think, oh, it's [SPEAKER_01]: They can't do damage to the aircraft. [SPEAKER_01]: They can. [SPEAKER_01]: They could potentially go into the engine, for example, cause damage there. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just such an unnecessary risk. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I just think it's going to be one of those things where until something happens sadly, it's one of those scenarios.

13:58 [SPEAKER_00]: There will be no movement on this. [SPEAKER_00]: It does look amazing when you are flying at a decent altitude when you're over flying somewhere. [SPEAKER_00]: So when you're over flying somewhere on like 4th of July or New Year's Eve and you look down and I mean that that footage, especially in the social media region, is amazing.

14:16 [SPEAKER_00]: But then you kind of imagine aircraft dodging that on arrival and suddenly it's not so pretty. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree. [SPEAKER_01]: So let's move over to pretty tragic, very recent story out of the Middle East. [SPEAKER_01]: We have, as a first lemme ask you, how did you come across this?

14:37 [SPEAKER_01]: How do you heard of this airline before? [SPEAKER_01]: What has happened? [SPEAKER_00]: So I hadn't heard of this and this is something that happened last night Tuesday night, we were recording this on Wednesday, but an industry friend colleague of mine sent me over a quick message noting that air traffic control had been informed of a missing aircraft over the Arabian sea.

14:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And then about 15 minutes after that, I had seen the first post on social media that someone had been aware of the same and then quickly soon after that kind of everyone knew. [SPEAKER_00]: A very, very small cargo airline with just one aircraft in the fleet, a cargo airline based in Pakistan, called K2 cargo.

15:20 [SPEAKER_00]: It was an old 737-400, they are quite rare, [SPEAKER_00]: and it was flying from Sharja in the UAE very busy as an airport in the UAE to Karachi, which should have been a short flight, cruising at 35,000 feet and not too far away from Karachi when the crew reported navigation system problems.

15:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Then radar seems to show that a few minutes later there were some sudden heading changes and also a rapid descent before ultimately losing contact with radar and with their traffic control. [SPEAKER_00]: That's unfortunately as much as we know what they are assuming is a sad end for this assumed crash in the Arabian sea.

16:13 [SPEAKER_01]: precisely. [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, five crew members were on board. [SPEAKER_01]: The Pakistan Navy Air Force and national shipping corpse have been deployed to search for the aircraft, recover the black box and try to figure out what happened. [SPEAKER_01]: But always sad and especially in such a tough time for the region as well for something like this to happen.

16:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's tragic. [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder also, if I mean the other, I guess when people are trying to analyse what would happen in the immediate aftermath, they noticed again that the flight radar data was a bit all over the place, particularly at the beginning of the flight, because of course there is all this GPS, the signal, the GNSS jamming, where this is still right.

16:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're [SPEAKER_00]: on any of the flight tracking sites and perhaps you're tracking a relative or a friend flying either too from or over the Middle East. [SPEAKER_00]: It then quickly shows the aircraft doing all kinds of strange things, but thankfully that's not happening in reality, it is the signal jamming, the interference that it is as a result of all of the weaponry technology being used at the moment [SPEAKER_00]: And even those who know this is happening, I still get messages, I got messages from friends in New York last week saying we know that this kind of the GPS interference is still a thing.

17:36 [SPEAKER_00]: But did this aircraft actually do this because it looks like it did and I was having to reassure note that is just still that interference, it's still that it's still rife even though things have been pretty calm. [SPEAKER_00]: until this morning where it did all kick off again and the U.S. were hitting Iran and Iran were retaliating by hitting U.S. bases in Bahrain and Kuwait.

17:58 [SPEAKER_01]: It's another sort of tangent on this that I find so interesting is checking every day to see how airlines when it's not being spoofed are have been at least gradually trying to fly in a bit more airspace than before. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, now we can certain airlines are flying [SPEAKER_01]: just to the right of Tehran and then up toward Russia, for example, and other airlines, a lot of airlines have started using parts of Iraqi airspace, because of course all of this situation has created [SPEAKER_01]: huge airspace issues in the Middle East, Saudi airspace is packed.

18:39 [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, to get out of Saudi airspace and open up more paths is really valuable. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's of course before the war, Iran was very popular for overfly, especially on those ultra long old legs between the Middle East and the West Coast of the US. [SPEAKER_01]: For example, Iran was or Iraq was probably the most used airspace [SPEAKER_01]: for Middle East to Europe flights and is still not fully available.

19:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know what, I just tweeted actually this morning that the air traffic controllers in Saudi Arabia hats off to them because they are doing a phenomenal job handling. [SPEAKER_00]: handling more overflight and international air traffic than at any point in that history. [SPEAKER_00]: Because if it wasn't for the Saudi overflight at the moment and also the small corridor over Georgia, we wouldn't have the east-to-west connectivity that airlines are still managing to pull off and also still managing to pull off.

19:43 [SPEAKER_00]: on time and to a schedule, you know, it's not all over the places, is that they're still considering they're on time performance and connections are still being facilitated and things are still pretty seamless in the face of such extraordinary, such a complex operating environment development and so, you know, is hats off to them because this is now a fifth month of this and it's just, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: this sees fire to be over and referring to the leadership in Iran as a scum and that he doesn't care, he's willing to just keep going and bombing and so on and therefore, you know, that kind of language is, is itself destabilizing.

20:29 [SPEAKER_00]: for global aviation as they try to interpret what that means for, for example, nighttime flying, are we still able to use ex-area wire and so on? [SPEAKER_01]: Precisely, there is another story from the Middle East that fascinates me and it brings us into a wider discussion we wanted to have.

20:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So a few weeks ago, under my radar somehow, I think under your radar too, [SPEAKER_01]: Condor announced in partnership with Etihad that they are launching flights. [SPEAKER_01]: So we for context Earlier this year before the war they announced they'd be taking over one of Etihad's frequencies between Frankfurt and Abu Dhabi and setting up a co-chair agreement or actually revenue sharing.

21:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I think shoveling people onto Etihad flights. [SPEAKER_01]: They were also launching flights from Berlin. [SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense. [SPEAKER_01]: But a few weeks ago [SPEAKER_01]: Condor announced that they will be flying between Abu Dhabi and Bangkok as a fifth-freedom flight. [SPEAKER_01]: So we've seen a lot of European airlines or Asian airlines launch routes because they've had subsidies or partnerships with Middle Eastern carriers, whether it's to Dubai, Doha, or Abu Dhabi, all those cities have had that.

21:47 [SPEAKER_01]: But I cannot think of another situation where we've had a European airline setting up a mini hub and flying a fifth freedom route again on behalf of Etihad between Abu Dhabi and Bangkok. [SPEAKER_01]: I find that fascinating and what does that tell us about where Kondor is going? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's totally weird and it's not going to make money in my opinion.

22:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So they actually, I was in the room next door to when they signed this. [SPEAKER_00]: They signed this at the IARTA AGN in Rio de Janeiro. [SPEAKER_00]: And Antonarda, the CEO of Etihad, was there and he was signing with the CEO. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was the CEO of Condor. [SPEAKER_00]: But this random, random, [SPEAKER_00]: marriage, just again, gave me kind of the feeling of that the Yeti had days where they were finding you know air seashells, air Berlin, you want to be one and and who was the one who used to fly from Geneva to Cambridge Darwin and it wore the Yeti had regional delivery.

22:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I used to see it while I was studying Cambridge and it was they were [SPEAKER_00]: like the the SARB aircraft were coming in in a low to hard level. [SPEAKER_00]: It was couldn't actually had delivery over Cambridge and I'd be like this at a very adequate price and of course all of fact you know ended but so Etty had a condor getting into bed fine code sharing fine potentially revenue sharing also fine bit random and then now this service [SPEAKER_00]: from Abu Dhabi to Bangkok, meaning that eti had passengers will now have to check.

23:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, for me, I can perceive this as only passengers complaining that they're somehow. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you know, like how eti had were using Vamos from Spain as a wetly operator and people of flights to Indonesia and people were pissed because it was a massive downgrade. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel that although this is wrapped up as a commercial agreement, which it is, a passenger will ultimately board and think, why am I on a German leisure airline, a holiday airline aircraft from Abu Dhabi, a very premium market to Bangkok, and it's because of this so-called strategic [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really get what's in it for Condor either, but as you say, I agree that there's going to be a lot of passengers being like what on earth I booked under an Etihad flight number, and now I'm on this random, I mean, Etihad, Condor is not a bad airline, but if you put them up against Etihad,

24:30 [SPEAKER_01]: there are so many things you're missing. [SPEAKER_00]: That's true conchise surely. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like, you know, it's the same as before. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's be sure, we're starting to fly from Doha to Bangkok. [SPEAKER_01]: It makes no sense. [SPEAKER_01]: What, and that would make way more sense.

24:45 [SPEAKER_01]: That would, yeah, because it's a ton world to let it see it's a line. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Catalan 25% or, you know, that would make sense. [SPEAKER_00]: The, the, the, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: to get some reaction from this. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'd spoken to Emirati's some Emirati friends of mine in Abu Dhabi.

25:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Sent them the announcement. [SPEAKER_00]: They work in aviation. [SPEAKER_00]: They work for it. [SPEAKER_00]: He had so their super well versed with what's happening. [SPEAKER_00]: None of them, three out of three. [SPEAKER_00]: Not any of them knew or had heard of Condor, then they asked me if it was a typo Of course because it's one like Condor yes Condor yeah Okay, yeah Right, the last door Isn't all right And then what does condor mean?

25:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: What does condor mean? [SPEAKER_00]: It's a name, isn't it? [SPEAKER_00]: Condor is a bird Oh, he's a bird, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know that. [SPEAKER_00]: There we go. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's something to say. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which is funny because Let's not as the cream.

25:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the cream. [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not the cream. [SPEAKER_01]: No, which is why it's kind of funny that Condor is named after a bird. [SPEAKER_00]: Condor is the common name for two New-world Votes has each with one Thanks, thank you. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, and why would you want to name your airline after a Vulture?

26:00 [SPEAKER_00]: The Andean Condor. [SPEAKER_00]: What's the link with Germany? [SPEAKER_01]: It flies. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the link to the airline. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know the link to journal. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh with jam and holidays [SPEAKER_01]: The word condo does not actually come from German. [SPEAKER_00]: It comes from the Ketua word spoken by the native Inca people of South America and explores adopted the word as condo.

26:33 [SPEAKER_00]: In German, the bird's name is spelled condo with a K following standard German spelling rules. [SPEAKER_00]: So they don't even spell it the job away. [SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to see if there's an explanation. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Condor Airlines gets its name from the Majestic Indian Condor Bird.

26:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Known for it, renowned for its endurance, long range flights and ability to transverse the globe. [SPEAKER_01]: There we go. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, Condor and Etihad. [SPEAKER_00]: with this new, with this new service. [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I would think that that passengers would perceive that to be a downgrade.

27:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder also to what extent this is a part of a wider deal of air to had solidifying slash strengthening slash just putting at ease its relationship with Europe, which the golf carers are always on a safe ground with a specifically Germany where Emirates [SPEAKER_00]: So that's probably playing a role somewhere there.

27:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a win one and then it's also, I guess, it's no surprises to what they're now saying about being bought. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so Condor CEO Peter Gerber, which is almost Peter Gerber from Titanic. [SPEAKER_01]: to hold the German magazine stern, very German magazine stern magazine.

27:56 [SPEAKER_01]: The consolidation is the most likely long-term outcome, suggesting that golf carriers could look to diversify away from their home market and be prime bidders for Condor, so he doesn't [SPEAKER_01]: I think we see where their preference lies, but I think we see where it's going. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

28:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So they've signed these extensive commercial groomers with Etihad. [SPEAKER_00]: And now they're hinting that perhaps one of the golf car is one of those. [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder who could it be? [SPEAKER_00]: It can't be. [SPEAKER_00]: It can't be. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

28:37 [SPEAKER_00]: That invest in I.A.G. [SPEAKER_00]: and version of the tap. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: Is it Emirates just down the road into buy? [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: a very rapier Abu Dhabi, and it had, oh god, don't tell me that going to pursue this trust you know, where they start buying up, you know, the, I mean, that's the reason why I just thought, let's not do this again.

29:03 [SPEAKER_01]: We've tried it once. [SPEAKER_01]: It didn't work. [SPEAKER_01]: You're doing amazing right now, sweetie. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's stick with this. [SPEAKER_01]: We don't need a condor based in Frankfurt. [SPEAKER_01]: as much as they would like a home in Dubai, in the winter, we don't meet or in Abu Dhabi, in this case, we don't need to do that.

29:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I was on a layover on like a very brief 12-hour visit with Demi outside of Lanaka in Cyprus and the Condor aircraft came in really low over the beach and of course she literally [SPEAKER_00]: some form of, you know, of holiday online doesn't it look like a beach town do you or or or she said it looks like an umbrella like a paraso which is also true but speaking of swooping in and being bought do you think easy jet won't that from the US equity firm castle lake because I don't however easy jet have agreed in principle [SPEAKER_00]: to a 5.5 billion pound potential takeover from Castle Lake as £6.90 per share.

30:22 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the fifth bid that Castle Lake have submitted. [SPEAKER_00]: After easy yet described the four previous [SPEAKER_00]: the founder of EasyJet, a Greek legend. [SPEAKER_00]: He has the 15% stake. [SPEAKER_00]: He is not commented, but in the industry, and I've been getting reaction from those that work for EasyJet, but also speaking to industry colleagues, they feel that EasyJet is really at risk with this potential buy-up because it is [SPEAKER_00]: which is not, you know, they're not, they don't run airlines.

31:07 [SPEAKER_00]: It's very unlikely that they are going to be acquiring easy jet and then thinking how do we take these jet to the next level. [SPEAKER_00]: But what is much more likely? [SPEAKER_00]: is that easy jet with this acquisition would be broken up and sold peace by peace to other carriers. [SPEAKER_00]: So they have really valuable assets in a nutshell slots at London Gatwick, incredibly difficult to get hold of, easy to have tons of them at Geneva, again very difficult to get hold of, easy to [SPEAKER_00]: a very valuable plus, of course, the existing Airbus fleet, a very strong Airbus fleet, plus the orderbook as well.

31:54 [SPEAKER_00]: This is, you know, I, I really hope that Egypt has a solid strong future for the sake of European aviation because if I'm honest, [SPEAKER_00]: My take, and I was asked about this on radio yesterday, is that if this US equity firm were to get its hands on easy jet, and then it will start to be broken up and sold off to whoever wants it, that would be really bad for consumers and really bad for the European aviation market in general.

32:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because what's interesting here and what makes people think that they might try to dissolve easy jet for the assets, is that the bid was for five, wait, what is the total bit amount? [SPEAKER_01]: Now I can't find it. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's in US dollars, it's just over seven billion US dollars.

32:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: So the context here was that the total value of the company is allegedly more than a billion dollars more than the bid that correct placed for the company is. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what's making people raise an eyebrow and go, so does this mean that the airline as a whole is just being bought for assets.

33:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, that's extremely concerning because easy jet, along with Ryanair, I mean, Ryanair to a greater somebody easy jet is really a foundational low-cost carrier for so many Europeans. [SPEAKER_01]: Think about Geneva, how lucky that city is to have easy jet to bring prices down a bit.

33:28 [SPEAKER_01]: If you compare to Zurich, which doesn't have the same low-cost airline presence, and prices are sky high because Swiss people can supposedly afford it. [SPEAKER_01]: Then the interesting thing is also that Castle Lake was the company that facilitated the sale of a state of us A.S. to your friends K.A.

33:47 [SPEAKER_01]: lamb. [SPEAKER_01]: So do your friends K.A. [SPEAKER_01]: lamb come into this somehow. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they want easy jet or they want easy jet gone and they want easy jets assets. [SPEAKER_00]: It's, I have alarm bells ringing everywhere because, as you say, firstly, this, I mean, they've undervalued easy jet as a business.

34:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone knows it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's why investors were not, it's why the share price was completely, when it was so jittery after this news because investors and the, and the, the markets know that easy jet is worth more. [SPEAKER_00]: So why would this be, why would this be something that, [SPEAKER_00]: end up being reality, right?

34:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And of course there are hurdles that they have to overcome. [SPEAKER_00]: A US carrier, sorry, a US, it's not a US carrier, so US equity firm. [SPEAKER_00]: A US company can't simply come and swoop in and buy easy jet. [SPEAKER_00]: There are rules where it has to be 51% European ownership.

34:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So [SPEAKER_00]: they're trying to work on that and what Castle Lake have said is that they will set up a European holding company controlled by EU nationals and that way they comply with the restrictions that that the EU have and that the controlling directors would be the one's named in previous bids which are aviation executives.

35:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So Peter Belieu is one. [SPEAKER_00]: He is the former Malaysian allies CEO former chief operating officer at EasyJet. [SPEAKER_00]: He left during the [SPEAKER_00]: just shortly after the pandemic, if Mary will serve me correct, when things were getting bad, lots of strike action, it was that big bang return that no one was ready for.

35:24 [SPEAKER_00]: He also did a stint a re-ad, of course it ran away his most kind of known for, and also the former chief operating [SPEAKER_00]: that this could theoretically get over the line and satisfy European requirements. [SPEAKER_00]: But again, what we care much more about is what this would mean for easy jet employees for the public who of which easy jet has been a complete game changer in terms of the landscape of European air travel.

36:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll be honest, I don't like any of it. [SPEAKER_00]: I see it as a completely opportunistic [SPEAKER_00]: if it's, you know, crazier than it had in Condor, you know, establishing a base together in Abu Dhabi. [SPEAKER_01]: I know, let's hope it doesn't go through because easy jet is fine financially.

36:27 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't have to be saved, quote unquote. [SPEAKER_01]: So why does anyone have to go save them? [SPEAKER_01]: Let's, well, they are just on that point. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they are perceived to be a little vulnerable to a take over. [SPEAKER_00]: Only because they had two profit warnings just now in the spring.

36:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But again, this was because of the economic backdrop of the fuel price, you know, surge the crazy raging price of jet fuel and everything else that the Trump's war on Iran with Israel has caused. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I, you know, that they've been sounding out these kind of small warnings.

37:08 [SPEAKER_00]: including their CEO Kenton, Jarvis, he in March, reported that bookings were falling a bit because of the war and so on. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's happening to all airlines and that shouldn't necessarily be, you know, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, they need a U.S. equity saviour. [SPEAKER_00]: That's not the case.

37:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Precisely. [SPEAKER_01]: So final story for today. [SPEAKER_01]: Something else that's really fun in Europe. [SPEAKER_01]: EES on Exit. [SPEAKER_01]: Europe's new entry system cannot stop causing a headache for airports, for airlines, and now we're really in peak summer travel. [SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of people are being affected, right?

37:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is really catching people of God. [SPEAKER_00]: Have you have you are people going to touch with you about this friends relatives whoever people understanding this correctly because I had a segment yesterday live on BBC radio London where I was explaining. [SPEAKER_00]: kind of what part of the process is catching passengers off guard.

38:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And the presenter herself bless her. [SPEAKER_00]: She was like, we have to go through immigration to leave Europe to come back to the UK. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, yeah, because it's always been the case. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's always been the case. [SPEAKER_00]: That's not you.

38:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, and I said to her, okay, [SPEAKER_00]: come with me now. [SPEAKER_00]: We walk into the terminal. [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, okay, I'm like, you've just completed checking. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: You go to security. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: I said, now what?

38:34 [SPEAKER_00]: She was like, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's now it's like the shops. [SPEAKER_00]: It's exactly duty free shops, coffee. [SPEAKER_00]: Perhaps we'll find a Starbucks, right? [SPEAKER_00]: She said, right. [SPEAKER_00]: I said, oh, wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: You're flying to the UK, you still have immigration, and at immigration, you have EES, and nobody is actively walking around, you know, the Dior or Armani perfume are, saying to you, just let you know, there's a four-hour cue to stop there for your date, and your flights in 40 minutes.

39:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So I said hello. [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. [SPEAKER_00]: It's catching people of God. [SPEAKER_00]: People just don't remember that part of the process when Specifically, this is a very bright thing but specifically kind of British passport holders leaving Europe to go back to the UK But of course, it's it's applicable to Americans leaving Europe Malaysians leaving Europe Australians.

39:19 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all non-Eunashinals. [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry all non-Eunashinals [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, [SPEAKER_01]: it's kind of a fascinating system when you think about it because the US is so strict when you're going in, but then whether you're flying domestic or international, it's the same thing to them.

39:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And I always find it funny how it's so complex in the US because international flights often need to arrive at their own terminals. [SPEAKER_01]: that have immigration. [SPEAKER_01]: Many times there's only one terminal at an airport with many terminals that has that, but then the flights can depart from any terminal they want because you can have a flight to Milwaukee and next to it a flight to London.

40:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So I understand how to confuse and [SPEAKER_01]: I think that it, I know that there's a lot of people politically that are very upset about this and how it's been implemented. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's just so, you know, don't let this ruin some or travel like this. [SPEAKER_00]: I know, but you're seeing the videos, like you're seeing the videos, right?

40:43 [SPEAKER_00]: is really difficult. [SPEAKER_00]: People are arriving to Rome and they're in five-hour queues. [SPEAKER_00]: People are arriving to Lisbon. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even talk about Lisbon, but it's a frank threat. [SPEAKER_00]: Nightmare, Charles de Gaude can be a nightmare. [SPEAKER_00]: This E.S.

40:55 [SPEAKER_00]: thing is a disaster. [SPEAKER_00]: They should just call it quits, but they're not for whatever reason. [SPEAKER_00]: Ursula von de Lé and recognizes that it's a been a disaster, but it says it there. [SPEAKER_00]: trying to iron out these tech glitches, you can't iron out tech glitches when you are at the peak of the peak of summer travel, it's impossible.

41:13 [SPEAKER_01]: No, unfortunately, you cannot. [SPEAKER_01]: So that was a very wide ranging discussion. [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for joining us today on air. [SPEAKER_01]: Stay safe out there, arrive to airports early if you're flying internationally from the EU. [SPEAKER_01]: And we look forward to seeing you all next week on air as always.

41:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Bye, bye. [SPEAKER_00]: See you later.