357 - The Art of Casting Doubt

0:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's pop and everybody hello and welcome to Pop from Culture. [SPEAKER_00]: My name is Ben Carlin and I am your host here. [SPEAKER_00]: Me today is with brother Jay who will be in every episode. [SPEAKER_01]: Made a back then. [SPEAKER_01]: Quick question for you. [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, yeah, lay it on me.

0:28 [SPEAKER_01]: What is your relationship with the Pumpkin Spiced Latte at Starbucks? [SPEAKER_00]: I, I, I mean, it's impossible to avoid the presence of the Pumpkin Spiced Latte. [SPEAKER_00]: True. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have like, [SPEAKER_00]: Almost any relationship with it at all. [SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever had one?

0:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I've had one. [SPEAKER_00]: You've had one. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and I I mean, it's like they come around and I'm sort of like, oh, yeah, it's pumpkin spice latte season, but like it's almost like them playing You know like Christmas music Before the holidays. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's kind of like well It puts you in the festive air of things you know, but like I'm not I don't know [SPEAKER_00]: like so you're not you're not sprinting to your local Starbucks to be like oh yes it's time it's back not at all not at all I think that like in the earlier days of like my coffee drinking and divers it wouldn't have missed me to go and get like the specialty [SPEAKER_00]: coffee creamer that was like pumpkin flavored sure you know for the month or whatever But that was also during like a period of time where my coffee drinking was just like a lot different I think like in my early 20s, I was still probably newer to overall like to enjoy the experience right like Nowadays and not to you know not to knock it at all, but I'm not a huge fan of like flavored coffees either

1:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Sam, you know, but like, but I remember there used to be the Duncan donuts like chocolate glazed donut blend. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, like then you would buy it the store that I would buy in the store and, you know, like obviously in the in the earlier days college kind of carrying over until like my first couple years at a college, um, I didn't have a whole lot of extra income to go around.

2:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So that was almost like the, I would normally go and get like a big can of like the chocolate full of nuts, [SPEAKER_00]: Beepest. [SPEAKER_01]: I remember, yes, and when we were living together in the house where we started supercarl and brothers, we would constantly have a big, just can of chocolate nut sitting next to the coffee maker.

2:34 [SPEAKER_00]: The coffee maker. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And so then like the the splurge purgis was like the Dunkin Donuts, you know, like like the girl I was dating at the time, like it would have been uncommon for us like put it in like a stocking as like a stocking stuff right? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's fun.

2:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, it's like, oh, when we feel like the $8 bag and something like the $8 giant tin that lasts just like three months anyway. [SPEAKER_00]: So that is sort of my my polite rundown on the pumpkin spice latte. [SPEAKER_00]: No hate, though, of course. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know like I enjoy the seasons to to their fullest.

3:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's like one of those like just live in the moment if you go and you can take a sip of it and just like [SPEAKER_00]: have like this big deep intake of like happiness. [SPEAKER_00]: But um, how about how about you? [SPEAKER_00]: Do you you cover it? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I like you sell back in like, I think the the speaking of the early days was super carl and brother is like, I think one of my year one videos was pumpkin was called like pumpkin everything.

3:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Where in I went to a grocery store and the I think the pumpkin spice latte was either new or they were it was like really like beginning to be like a trendy thing Okay, beyond just like you know, oh, it's a seasonal offering at Starbucks that is like you know It was like the flavor of the season right or whatever and everyone was caching in on put pumpkin in everything And so I just made a video where I tried a bunch of different pumpkin things.

3:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you like them? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean I think I did like them. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was fun [SPEAKER_01]: But uh, since then I feel like it has just become like its own, it has become such a monumental thing every year that the pumpkin spice latte is back at Starbucks.

4:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like the overwhelming branding and obsession and everything. [SPEAKER_01]: It feels like it like to meet feels very like overhyped like one of those like it's gotten to the part where it's like I don't want to like it based on like [SPEAKER_01]: the perception of it. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mean, do you ever have like empathy for the pumpkins by Slate itself for having this like unachievable bar to which it needs to live up against?

4:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have empathy for it in particular, but see here's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: You said unachievable bar, but this past weekend I had my annual pumpkins by Slate. [SPEAKER_01]: I get like one a year and like this was this was the weekend. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess I Was saying home with Nick who was feeling under the weather and the bath was trying to take Luke and Nate to church and like Luke had just forgotten his shoes.

5:05 [SPEAKER_01]: He thought they were in the car. [SPEAKER_01]: They weren't in the car. [SPEAKER_01]: They got half way there They were already late because we were dealing with Nick [SPEAKER_01]: And Beth was like I'm just calling it we're just I'm going to Starbucks. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to you know what I don't know if you want anything and so what I wanted was the like apple spice crunch or like it's like there you know the apple cider offering oh sure yeah one of my absolute favorite drinks there I think maybe it's only a Christmas drink now or something.

5:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's not a fall drink anyway It wasn't there they didn't have it so instead Beth brought Beth brought me back the pumpkin spice latte And I was like all right cool and I was drinking it and I was like oh my god, it's so good [SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't like it's like every fiber means like I don't I don't want to like it, but there's no way around it.

5:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like I'm you know I'm not I'm not here to like promote Starbucks or whatever, but I was really wanting to talk about how the the hype and everything around it feels like It feels like something that I want to dislike but despite my best efforts, I can't [SPEAKER_00]: So of like it's just unavoidably good.

6:02 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just that's that is my take on it feel free to disagree not everyone likes the pumpkin spice up And I will say this though My friend our friend Brandon this weekend Needed to borrow some eggs, you know, and my borrow. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean just have some eggs He's not going to return and I can turn them.

6:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't think I'm not planning to get those eggs back or anything Wow, Brandon [SPEAKER_01]: I know, yeah, yeah, come on, dude, but so we came over to get them and in exchange, he had made his own in-house, like pumpkin spice syrup, and he gave me a little jar of it. [SPEAKER_01]: That's how I was using that for the rest of the weekend, and it was also quite, quite good.

6:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So however good Starbucks is, it seems that you can make your own as well and get pretty darn close, but that's my relationship with it. [SPEAKER_01]: I probably am set for the year now. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I was going to ask, like, is it just sort of like, like, the hunger is satiated or is there like a caloric intake problem?

6:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I think part of it is, as yeah, it's not that I wouldn't get more. [SPEAKER_01]: There is, those Starbucks drinks are immensely indulgent, I think. [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. [SPEAKER_01]: And you can you can alter them and you you can like you know down calorie them and all that all you want But to me like if you're gonna get a pun like if you're gonna pump and spice latte, you know if you're gonna be a bear be a grizzly You know, I mean like full of like yeah like if you're getting the experience if you're doing the thing you gotta do the thing [SPEAKER_01]: Right, you know, that's what I think is because for something like that where it's like you're going to have like one a year or whatever Then I mean you say that's a common thing people are probably getting them every day I just I suspect that during pumpkin spice lattices and people aren't like this is my one of you You're one that's true.

7:42 [SPEAKER_00]: They're like for the next month. [SPEAKER_00]: I am pumpkin spice and latte. [SPEAKER_01]: I am pumpkin and spice and I am latte [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: And there we go. [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: What do you just think about the pump and spice latte?

7:52 [SPEAKER_01]: What is your indulgent Starbucks drink? [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Starbucks feels unavoidable. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like we own a coffee company and I still go to Starbucks sometimes. [SPEAKER_01]: Like sometimes you just you need to have a Starbucks order. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there is a certain like reliability to this and like I honestly think that this is like the reason that like chain restaurants resonate with people in such like a like triumphant way in general is that like it kind of doesn't matter where you are in the country right find an establishment that is like the one that you know from back home you can reliably go in there and get something that will meet your expectations right.

8:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that there is something to be said for that just being, um, it's like rewatching like your favorite TV show, you know, it's kind of like you're not shocked by the the twists and turns anymore, but you've got like your favorite moments, you kind of like get to like anticipate, you can't wait to witness again, and it's just like, [SPEAKER_00]: But like you'll never get to capture the lightning in the bottle that was the first time ever ever again But I mean, so if that's a thing like when you're out on the road especially like it's there aren't many at least for us like, you know We go out we're touring we're in the van a lot and so it's it's not like there's a huge variety of coffee specific

9:18 [SPEAKER_00]: like drive through places that you can that you can get like yeah you can of course get coffee at McDonald's or you know like Chick-fil-A breaking like you know all those places of coffee they all have coffee I mean it's the point where like you know for like McDonald's for example like if [SPEAKER_00]: I will drink coffee every single morning.

9:40 [SPEAKER_00]: If we get up and the first thing we do is go to McDonald's for breakfast. [SPEAKER_00]: I am not getting the coffee like it is it is so bad to me that it's like not even it's not even worth it Which is saying something because you know like we stay at like the hotels and everything while we're out there too and like I'll just drink you know the lobby coffee.

9:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, even to that that's always the same coffee. [SPEAKER_01]: You know because we're always that I help [SPEAKER_00]: We are always at the Hilton's, yeah, yeah, we that was another one of those like funny decisions like that people people forever I remember like you know as you're growing up there like I used my points like you know I was able to come to this wedding that was like in the far-flung location because I had points And I'm like what do you mean you have points like I don't understand this points thing right, but it really really really is like kind of fascinating to play [SPEAKER_00]: to play the loyalty program game if you're going to be out there doing it like it would be absurd to go to a different hotel every single time because we do kind of get used to what to expect it you know me here it's exactly the same thing you know it's it's like you go to Starbucks because you know what you can expect out of it and everything even like their their bakery it's you know everything just comes out of like a little plastic wrapped

10:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I know, right. [SPEAKER_00]: It's reliably there. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is what I would say would be like my Starbucks indulgence is not one of the coffee drinks. [SPEAKER_00]: It is the ice lemon loaf. [SPEAKER_01]: It is good. [SPEAKER_00]: It is.

10:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it is. [SPEAKER_00]: I get more than once a year. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: You say, I mean, that's one that I have to regulate for the same reason. [SPEAKER_00]: I think like one slice of lemon loaf is like something like full. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you know what I think is is also really good at Starbucks that I will like try and like cheat myself into sometimes.

11:14 [SPEAKER_01]: What's that? [SPEAKER_00]: There can't pop like the kids always want them and it's just like, yeah, but I'll just get with myself to just like I'll take four Yeah, it's like all right boys here you guys I'll go one of them like I'm up here like sort of yeah, yeah, I know [SPEAKER_00]: they are they are quite wonderful I know and then I've tried to make those at home to for for Addison in the past and yeah my my just don't hold it.

11:43 [SPEAKER_01]: They're just not if you just spit it out. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean what is this dad? [SPEAKER_00]: This is she loves them actually. [SPEAKER_00]: My assessment is that a success? [SPEAKER_00]: No, not a good. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know some day then. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

11:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I'll I'll get to the ranks of having ever made a good cake pop. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, maybe you can you can beat them there and rest easy knowing that you're all we definitely beat them at actual coffee Go absolutely no No, there's there's no question there. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's that's like one of those where like I also do not find like the pipe place coffee You know, particularly good.

12:14 [SPEAKER_00]: It's very bitter. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I play it's really you know Especially not what you get up Carl them but there's coffee which is what I just drink every morning anyway exactly Yeah [SPEAKER_01]: Nimbus blend you know that that is my favorite. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but yeah, but I also stock both of our coffees I have pretty much an Alice has gotten so spoiled about it to like where if we let go somewhere else She's like like when we like even when we go to Disney we have our coffee grindx Oh, jofferies jofferies is is also not terrible.

12:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah [SPEAKER_00]: Um, which is so frustrating because it's like just just get better get better coffee. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll get I'll get off that pedestal I'm sure people don't care or tolerate it because it's what is available in uni energy while you're at the parks But we gotta avoid you gotta avoid drawphrase and Starbucks for outing into the parks until you lose all of your momentum [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you go into the parks and you go straight to a job freeze or straight to a Starbucks, yeah, it is in the world.

13:06 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it. [SPEAKER_01]: The life room in the day, you can be waiting in any other line in the park and you just decided to go to Disneyland and wait in the Starbucks line. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, don't do it. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Hold out. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Drink your coffee beforehand, people.

13:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So talking about like the color it didn't take of it all Jay is they're like, like, you know, we have a big rest of our lives type of situation. [SPEAKER_00]: that we've had up you know through the current present and we still probably have going forward for quite a stretch. [SPEAKER_00]: Is there ever a point where you imagine like you get like 70 and you're sort of like you know what I'm going to go to Starbucks every single morning and get a cake pop and you know what I'm just not going to feel guilty about it.

13:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Like would there ever be like an expiration date on your sort of like like [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's healthy. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's probably not. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it just like all the way right up into the edge. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I know, yeah, I don't.

13:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe there will be maybe a couple of different later. [SPEAKER_01]: But at the moment, I'm just sort of like, why would I not want to be healthy, you know, like, then you get to bed and spend? [SPEAKER_01]: Because that point would be like, then I could spend more time with, you know, hopefully, you know, like grand children or something.

14:04 [SPEAKER_01]: True. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, a trail. [SPEAKER_01]: Go do stuff with them. [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, hopefully, I want to keep my body in as much working order as possible for as long as possible. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I can imagine, you know, indulging in a few more things like that and stuff Like even this morning when I was just like I stayed home to watch Nick well Beth like I had to go work at school some and I just like there were I quickly was just sort of like well [SPEAKER_01]: I can kind of do some things for work from home, but like I don't have a ton to do right now And there's sort of wandered round.

14:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, yeah, we have some like little dove chocolate things sitting here Maybe I'll have one or two of these. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I've got a board, you know I would see how it's very easy to just be like [SPEAKER_01]: How does that one? [SPEAKER_00]: There's a line from the Jim Carrey Grinch where he's just like, I'm just eating because I'm bored.

14:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, oh, don't say that. [SPEAKER_00]: Don't say that. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, man. [SPEAKER_00]: It's because it's like, ah, I feel so perceived. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like I'm just eating because I'm bored. [SPEAKER_01]: First world, first world problems, first world.

15:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, Jay, so it's being a first word problem's absolute devastation this past weekend and it is like one of those things that I'm trying to promise myself that I'm past which is Letting the loss in a sporting event actively effect my ability to enjoy the rest of the weekend. [SPEAKER_00]: However, comma this past weekend our four and oh hokey's unranked for no hokey's.

15:29 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going up against the unranked for no Pittsburgh [SPEAKER_00]: Panthers. [SPEAKER_00]: Panthers. [SPEAKER_00]: Panthers. [SPEAKER_00]: Panthers. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And I honestly feel like the entire country and this is me obviously projecting my own echo chamber and you know whatever bias.

15:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But it felt like people were extremely leaned into this game in particular because like it was it was like why are neither of these teams ranked and they're playing each other and it's a Friday night game where there's not a lot of [SPEAKER_01]: yeah there was like there there was a certain like spark to it because it was too undefeated teams who weren't ranked which was his own story um and and you're right yeah it was right a night so like there was like the rest of college football hadn't happened yet right like this was like the only game it got like a full day news cycle almost dedicated to itself yep because it was the only one that was done and then it ended in tremendous

16:30 [SPEAKER_01]: there has since been lots of controversial opinions about the ending of the game. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I mean, it's very interesting because you go into it and you've got these two teams that both seem like they're just kind of equally good. [SPEAKER_00]: They're both undefeated. [SPEAKER_00]: Even if you look at the scores of each of their games, because in the first few games [SPEAKER_00]: You know sport what am I the athletic director whoever makes the schedule probably puts in there so that you can kind of go and cut your teeth and get your reps in exactly Yeah, you know, so it's I think on some level by the time, but they have both be their various like lead up games in very similar Fashions, you know couple blowouts couple close ones whatever Which is exactly what the hoogies have done so far

17:24 [SPEAKER_00]: getting to the game and you know it's like you you go through and you know there's back and force you know the first the hockies were up you know 14 to nothing. [SPEAKER_00]: I was gonna blow out and then you know they had like a bunch of turnovers on the other side of the ball so like both teams have their wins and losses whatever you get down to the fourth quarter last closing minutes and it is 32 to 34 which means a field goal 3 points wins it.

17:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: And the hokey's get themselves down there. [SPEAKER_00]: They have like one of the best collegiate kickers in the country. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, his name is John Love, which is also just iconic. [SPEAKER_00]: It's great name, great name. [SPEAKER_00]: Love, right?

17:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So they love love. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and the, you know, snap all good. [SPEAKER_00]: The whole good kick goes up and it goes flying over the top left up right. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: Which I mean, I don't know how like savvy any of our listeners are in terms of like football.

18:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure some people are like, yeah, of course, and other people are like, what is the upright? [SPEAKER_00]: But basically, it's like the big yellow poles. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Into the field. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: You got to get between the poles, score three points, right?

18:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And the problem is he kicked it higher than the poles. [SPEAKER_01]: And whether it was just to the left or just to the right or would it dinged off the pole or would it dinged into the, [SPEAKER_01]: pole, you know, like no one will ever know. [SPEAKER_01]: But the ref underneath it, looking up, decided that it veered outside the pole and was no good.

18:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And suddenly, and without really showing the audience, like much of a replay at all, it was just like, and pit wins, and they just cut the broadcast. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was like, [SPEAKER_01]: what just happened. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, all of a sudden it was just it was just over. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

19:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're just like, wait, wait, wait, wait. [SPEAKER_01]: How did he, because, you know, when I just watched it, it looked like it went through. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, are we sure it didn't? [SPEAKER_01]: And like the way football works is that like certain things are like reviewable and certain things are not so like penalties.

19:16 [SPEAKER_01]: They're not going to go on like review, but like, [SPEAKER_01]: You know, whether or not someone caught the ball or whether or not they went over a particular line to get a first down or touch down or something. [SPEAKER_01]: Then we'll spend minutes like at a time discussing, bringing an analyst and you do, can you can hear the rest discussing it, watching the replays that they're watching and you can [SPEAKER_01]: see like oh yeah the ball jostled right there and that means oh no he dragged his toe across this blade of grass and you know whatever like you can get you can get down there oh let me that they'll say it every single game it's game interests game inches you know and there they love things like this where it's like

19:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, if he made it one more inch it would have been a touchdown but he didn't so it's not and it's like and then this happens and it's like it is a very very narrow call here where it's like, was it inside the uprights or not and it's really hard to tell on camera because you're looking at it straight on and he's kicking at an angle and you can't tell exactly in depth where the field goal is and the ball's moving fast and then you still go on on Instagram and stuff and all the students and the viewers have got different camera angles.

20:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And some of them, it's like, it is so clearly in and some of them, it's like, I don't know, it's pretty, it's actually on the line. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I and you know, I've seen that kick. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, from, you know, 30 angles now. [SPEAKER_00]: I have to stop watching them because it just keeps breaking my heart out it, but like, I mean, it's.

20:37 [SPEAKER_00]: To me it really is like one of those things where it's like they call it no good But I and you know, so then like all the had that me even like you know like the New York Times and ESPN like you know There's like headline, you know front page or not not front page on the New York Times But like they're you know, it's front and center like people were talking about this like beyond just like our like small [SPEAKER_00]: Right like this this became enough news because it was interesting enough and it and it being exactly what we were talking about It's like you get two four and our teams coming in they're both on ranked so it's like and right up to the wire It basically was like anyone's game And then even down to the wire.

21:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It's anyone's game. [SPEAKER_00]: Well the thing I keep telling myself about it is that like if it had gone in I feel like the asterisk would just be on the hockies instead of being on pit [SPEAKER_00]: where it's like, one that game, and it's like, did they win that game? [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, then it's like the hokey's of one of the game, but like, did they win that game?

21:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I feel like all the headlines would be like, was the kit good or was the kit bad? [SPEAKER_01]: They could have, yeah, just be flipped the other way. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, the script would be flipped regardless. [SPEAKER_00]: So basically what happened is that if you've got those uprights and they just go to the moon, all the way up into space, it probably dinged the post.

21:45 [SPEAKER_01]: They're probably dinged the post, and from there, [SPEAKER_01]: Occasionally that means it dings in. [SPEAKER_01]: It can ding out. [SPEAKER_01]: It can ding away. [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever Who knows what would have happened? [SPEAKER_01]: Who knows what would have happened? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the answer is that we won't know But it's also I feel like more than anything what people are gonna say and this is the conversation I guarantee you every sports radio [SPEAKER_01]: show is having right now today is saying that it's not like it's not a matter of whether it went in or not that he is even the important takeaway like if he if he missed it fine I think everyone's okay like if he missed it yes and if he made it you know then the hook is robbed or whatever but the important thing is that like you can't they can go in there and look down to you know like

22:24 [SPEAKER_01]: inches and blades of grass and tote drags and jostled footballs and make these decisions over minutes and minutes of evaluation and slowmo. [SPEAKER_01]: But for something like that ends a lot of games, they have no way of reviewing exactly in the air, where the football was, like there's not lasers coming out of the top of the field goals or cameras on top of the posts or something like, are you kidding?

22:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Like they should get this right at there's no reason we should know the answer. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: And that may sound like pure overkill if you don't like watch a lot of, but this particular sport. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's the thing is that like they've got cameras literally everywhere.

23:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they are like tucked into, you know, like the little, the pylons, which are basically these like, yeah, you can knock them over if you run into them. [SPEAKER_00]: They're just, [SPEAKER_00]: and see it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, the rest of body cams, you know, exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's there is a lot going on that that should provide the opportunity for it.

23:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, I mean, I'm just here to say, I still think it could be our year. [SPEAKER_01]: I still like, if anything, this to me, like, look, I mean, on paper, it's a loss, like, sure, I guess. [SPEAKER_01]: But like, the point is like, like, [SPEAKER_01]: John Love missed that field goal, but realistically, it's like, but the hokey's drove down and got into field goal position.

23:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's the important part. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, they won the game in that regard. [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. [SPEAKER_01]: And, and if they're like discussing this later on, if it's like a who really deserves it, you can circle this game and be like, [SPEAKER_01]: We don't really know who won, like, pit one, pit one, but like, if you were discussing it, and you're like, well, but like, you know, what are the implications of the win?

24:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Like with context, and that's the sort of thing you could be discussing at some point for like bowl games or like, I don't know play off things or something like that. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: And if nothing else, I guarantee you this has led an absolute fire under every single person on that team.

24:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and that's the thing, too, is that like, you know, watching this team for years, it's like the one thing about them is that they've, they've always kind of had this like very like blue collar toughness, they, they used to call it the lunch pain. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they still do, they still haven't.

24:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, so it's, it's, it's always been very cool, but a lot of times just growing up, it felt like what you would witness with the hockies, is that because they're like in such a small town, but they get sometimes more national attention because the fan base is so, [SPEAKER_00]: like ravenous for event yeah um it's it like i feel like a lot of times they'll get like some type of amazing way and then they'll get over confident and then the next weekend they go out there and they're just like riding on their laurels and then they lose and so like part of me is almost like there's no way in the world anybody in that locker room is riding on any laurels this week right yeah [SPEAKER_01]: So no, they are I mean, I don't know who the next game is against but cow.

25:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sucks to be cow That would get bulldozed my man That would feel the full wrath of some angry hockies. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm thinking. [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, yeah, here's my ideal situation bet later [SPEAKER_01]: here you go, writing is that presently all prediction markets and whatever rankings and performance metrics which suggests to you that Miami will win the ACC, you know, if nothing goes unchanged, here's my ideal situation is that in due course Miami accrues a couple of losses throughout the season gets upset and then it comes down to the ACC championship pit versus tech.

25:48 [SPEAKER_01]: The rematch. [SPEAKER_01]: Look, that would be such a big, that's what I want to happen. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I want. [SPEAKER_01]: We would be there. [SPEAKER_01]: And we'd be there. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to the ship. [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to the ship.

26:00 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to the ship. [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, thank you guys for tolerating our sports talk as we so sometimes have to just go. [SPEAKER_00]: But at this point in time, I think if you've been listening to the pop of this many years, you know that we are quite obsessed with this, this particular thing.

26:12 [SPEAKER_01]: This is part of us. [SPEAKER_01]: This is us. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so speaking of sports J, the other thing that we have going on right now over on our Patreon pages, we are doing a step competition, which is not an effort for the Patreon, although if you want to check it out, that's a great way to support the show, but the thing I'm really trying to say here is that we do these periodic step competitions and the idea is just sort of like it's a big community way for everybody to hang out, you know, we go out there and, you know, each team has its goals, this time we're sort of, we're calling it the like Mickey's not so scary, [SPEAKER_00]: That competition, yeah, a little play on the trick or treating thing you can do at Magic Kingdom.

26:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, it's amazing to me how when these things get ignited, it not only changes like my own office habits. [SPEAKER_00]: Like we have our walking treadmills underneath our desk and yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I would say that for the most part this year mine has not been as utilize as it has been but it's active now in years past it is absolutely active now and it's not just that like I will get it's like the end of dinner and Ali's like what do I go to bedtime so you can like go for a run to get some more steps in for the comp nice like it's it's the kind of thing where like it [SPEAKER_00]: It's like everybody I feel like it just becomes like very consuming like it's a little bit present everywhere Everywhere.

27:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it absolutely is. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's affected. [SPEAKER_01]: It's affecting your just daily routines Hey, that's all. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it definitely is it definitely is and you know, honestly yesterday I got up with like a head full steam and I was like I got to get out there I'm gonna start working and I have like a million projects to do around the house anyway So I was like excited to get out there, but I ended up I like I've got my little [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's so fun.

27:54 [SPEAKER_01]: The kids love it. [SPEAKER_00]: It is very fun. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a cast iron, like upward facing, like athlete, yeah, wedge with a ring around the top. [SPEAKER_00]: So you can like set the log in there and sort of like hammer it through. [SPEAKER_00]: And a couple of key notes about this.

28:07 [SPEAKER_00]: One is that I have my trusty dusty mallet that I have, like, so loved for since 2012 is when I got it. [SPEAKER_00]: So for 14 years, me and this mallet have been like, well, best freaking pals. [SPEAKER_00]: And yesterday I'm out there, you know, it's been like rain all weekend and I'm going through I'm smashing up a bunch of, you know, like firewood and stuff like that, and I looked down on my arms and I'm just like covered in this like black material and I'm like, nooo!

28:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know what happened? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I first thought I was mud and I was kind of like, well, you know, like I can deal with that and then I realized that it was leaking out of the handle of my beloved malice. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, didn't mal at last let. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it is mild.

28:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It's last let no, I know, which I'm absolutely devastated about but on top of that is that my mallet swinging arm is my right arm So despite having broken down like 400 pieces of wood yesterday, I got no like counted steps. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh no Which I understand that swinging a mallet is not the same thing as walking, but I would argue that every single mallet So I'm a new exercise the live [SPEAKER_00]: I exercise and I like my back, my forearms, my biceps, like I am sore today from the amount of work that I did yesterday.

29:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, during the step competitions, I'm like, well, I guess I'm not biking this month because, you know, that's not going to give me any steps. [SPEAKER_01]: No good. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Your hands are made stationary, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

29:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like I'm here like 85 hundred yesterday and I was just like, [SPEAKER_00]: those are not the numbers I wanted to put up today and I mean I worked the whole day and yeah from like nine thirty till six p.m. when we were having dinner like I was I was just at it. [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway that's that's that's me and my relationship with the step company right now.

29:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So sorry team goofy for for possibly not not holding up to par but how's it going for you? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's been, it was pretty good. [SPEAKER_01]: Pretty good. [SPEAKER_01]: I was, I was excited because I was on Saturday morning. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I got a, I got a, I got a game to blue bulls.

29:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, coaching is not like when you're on the sidelines and stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: You're not exactly like, you know, running up and down the field like the players. [SPEAKER_01]: But you tend to accrue more steps than you'd think. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I could see now. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

30:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: You're just standing the whole time. [SPEAKER_01]: You're pacing a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: You're out on the field. [SPEAKER_01]: You're just messing around and stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, that's going to be a great way to start the day and just get like a nice, like, like, boost on the day.

30:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Steps wise. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but it was. [SPEAKER_01]: pouring rain on Saturday morning and even like Friday night, I'm fully expecting the game to be canceled, but I wake up the next morning and have an email from soccer steven. [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, games are still on, Rono County hasn't canceled anything, and I'm like part and I was like, [SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's do it and I was actually really excited because you know what I feel like every every kid needs to have like, just a real game in the rain.

30:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the elements must be present. [SPEAKER_01]: You got to be out there sloppin' it in the mud and everyone was just like, you're a slide and around. [SPEAKER_01]: Part of me is like, like, I remember that feeling as a kid. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you ever had to plan the rain, it was the best and like cross country practice like if it was raining.

31:04 [SPEAKER_01]: practically a holiday you know I mean it may as well a bit yeah it's like you're gonna go out there you're running around like the wetest sneakers you've ever seen but exactly not to where you get home you put them in front of the air conditioner and stuff newspaper inside of them and boom bam on the next day they're like damp they're not that yeah nothing works better than that like you could stuff those things in newspaper just done the next morning I'm tried that we don't get a newspaper anymore so I just look like paper towels and them doesn't work as well [SPEAKER_00]: Don't know why the newspapers were the trick.

31:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it did better. [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, you're absolutely right. [SPEAKER_00]: Like they're mean, there was something about like Like the the water, you know, like in a game like you know, there's like just like dripping down your face like like the You're like out in the elements just doing like you're not normally supposed to be out in the rain, but now you're out there doing soccer Don't so great.

31:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So we get there and I'm like having to [SPEAKER_01]: You know, email the team and be like, just so you know, game is still on, you know, they are not counted on a count of rain. [SPEAKER_01]: And then everyone's like, wait, are we still doing pictures beforehand? [SPEAKER_01]: Because we were going to have pictures taken beforehand.

32:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, actually, let me call them. [SPEAKER_01]: Call, no, we're not doing pictures. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to send another email. [SPEAKER_01]: No pictures. [SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to get there early. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, how are we gonna do pictures in the rain? [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, I'm not gonna do it But so me and Luke get out there, you know, they're married my assistant coach is out there and his kids are all standing under And umbrella and we're watching the game that's happening before us the kids are out there sliding and you know my I feel like my assistant coach is a little like man I don't know I can't believe that in cancel it and I'm like I'm here.

32:31 [SPEAKER_01]: We're playing. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, did you go down? [SPEAKER_01]: no, it did not go down by God. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah, me and me and Luke and, you know, recent Caden and all the other kids are standing there and we go over and talk to the rest after the game is like, I got a cancel.

32:48 [SPEAKER_01]: There's too much standing water on the field. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, bro, we're here. [SPEAKER_01]: We've been in the rain for 20 minutes. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, that's just what they told me. [SPEAKER_01]: So, sorry. [SPEAKER_01]: We got a cancel. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was just like, [SPEAKER_01]: Are you kidding like you couldn't you couldn't tell this is what was going to happen You kind of like phone to this in so I didn't have to email my entire team and reinforce Yes, you need to show up and stand in the reign of me for 20 minutes before the game starts only to turn around for no reason [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, it was so stupid.

33:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, just play it. [SPEAKER_01]: Just you know what because you're the other thing It's the last day of the season. [SPEAKER_01]: You know if you're gonna mess up the fields today's the day my man You got time to fix them. [SPEAKER_01]: It's right. [SPEAKER_00]: It's free aeration exactly like first see down afterwards [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be fine.

33:35 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't need to save the fields for future games. [SPEAKER_01]: The games are over, fix them next. [SPEAKER_01]: Then carry on. [SPEAKER_01]: We're here and we're in the rain. [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't get to play. [SPEAKER_01]: It was very annoying. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry about that. [SPEAKER_00]: You know that sounds incredibly disappointing.

33:48 [SPEAKER_01]: It was disappointing. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was so hyped to play too. [SPEAKER_01]: So we didn't get to do it. [SPEAKER_01]: We went home and Luke, Luke, just, you know, he just played, Reese Kimber, where we had fun, who was fine, it was good. [SPEAKER_01]: But I was like so energized that I was like, I'm just going for a run in the rain.

34:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I just so, I did. [SPEAKER_01]: Nice. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, got my steps in. [SPEAKER_01]: Had a very, very productive run, I thought. [SPEAKER_01]: That's good. [SPEAKER_01]: That's good. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Thought it was going, good click. [SPEAKER_01]: And then yesterday also, it was really rainy weekend here.

34:15 [SPEAKER_01]: It walled around. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So I've been trying to I've been trying to watch through the second season of Avatar the last airbender the live action. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, which I am really enjoying have to say it is very different from the animated mom, which makes it fun as you're watching to be like, oh, they changed this.

34:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, they included that. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, of course, they had to get that in there. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I thought it's been really good so far, but I've just been going down there and like walking on the treadmill as I watch the show and getting some steps in in that way, which is not normally how I would zoom stuff and I was like, I got to get my steps in, you know, I'll let the weekend slum me down here.

34:48 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no, what's so ever. [SPEAKER_00]: No, yeah, this is, I mean, serious business out there. [SPEAKER_01]: No, no. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's great. [SPEAKER_00]: That's great. [SPEAKER_00]: I also like to have it our live action. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's been a bit of a super enjoyed that.

34:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I had a question for oh, you get a coach. [SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to coach more like have you like have you scratched the itch or are you still on I mean that is a good question. [SPEAKER_01]: So Luke asked me yesterday like if I was going to coach his soccer team again next year and I was like I guess you know, so I got you if you want me to you know, I don't know if you want to play dude.

35:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I that's great. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean it seems like it seems like you've had like so much fun. [SPEAKER_00]: It had. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: The real question is because the next thing up is basketball. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: So will I do will I coach basketball is the next question.

35:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I used to be like a year-round coach. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what we do in the spring. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to coach like baseball across or anything. [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't play. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

35:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: But the we do this thing called like upward basketball like through one of the churches in the US because you can be like real little kids. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like super organized and super like like fast games and like very all inclusive and stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a great way to just go like, you know, beginner basic skills down.

36:04 [SPEAKER_01]: But they always need more volunteers. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's when Nick and Nate are going to do this year. [SPEAKER_01]: And so [SPEAKER_01]: Since I've already coached for Luke, I was like, maybe I should do this, so I can do it with Nick and Nate as well and they'll be on the same team and it's like, it's like the most basic intro to coaching ever, you know, because it's just like very like just learned to pass the ball and just gets shots up and you know, I don't even think you have to like really dribble, you know, run run run run the ball around.

36:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I may or may not be doing that. [SPEAKER_01]: I have not finished thinking about it, but we've got our blue bulls soccer banquet this coming Wednesday y'all get into pizza Oh, we're getting some pizza. [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to a pizza place. [SPEAKER_01]: I got the trophies all ordered and stuff.

36:52 [SPEAKER_01]: They got their names on them. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're doing like little little like superlatives for the kids, you know. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's so good. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you got to. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so although should be fun. [SPEAKER_00]: I will I will say I always felt robbed on the superlatives back in our cross country days, you know, I just have you know, they were there.

37:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there was a couple of times where I was like, I was like, okay, okay, most improved award here we go. [SPEAKER_00]: We go to happen in and then it didn't, and I was like, I was like, what? [SPEAKER_00]: What? [SPEAKER_00]: What? [SPEAKER_01]: how could it be I remember this is like my imposter syndrome on this stuff was always ridiculous like I remember the first year I did cross-country in high school I got the I got the fit dippities award yeah it's supposed to be like you know like the the hardest worker like was something like that I don't know yeah [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember thinking like, oh, I was like, really like, oh my god, so cool, but also like I felt like the reason I got it because it was me and for the boys and then my friend Marie got it for the girls and the reason we were given it was because we were the only two people who came to morning practices ever like six in the morning.

38:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so I think it was really just like to me my internal monologue when I got this award was like we need to find a way to acknowledge that these two Did this all season is sure now kind of thing, but like I'm listening there and I'm like, but like did I even really work that hard at practice you know like [SPEAKER_01]: like I'm not even like one of the faster runners you know whatever they're just giving this to me you know like I couldn't give myself the credit for it at all and that's crazy I mean getting that better early in the morning is like hard I know I know we did it like all season you think I've gotten faster [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, the one year, I think I was for indoor, I got like, like, I got like MVP field, like for like the whole track team, you know, like most valuable field, like sort of like for jumps and stuff like that, you know?

38:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, we're jumpers. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're jumpers and stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, the trophy they gave for that, it was big, it was like two feet tall or something. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, huge. [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's such a joke like, you know, sure, maybe most of most MVP field I guess on our team like did I score any points though?

39:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I would go to the meets and just get destroyed, you know, like maybe I was the best jumper on our team But was that like really good in comparison other teams, you know, like that this is like them. [SPEAKER_01]: I always felt like I guess I got it Because I was the best one on our team, but like our team just wasn't very good, you know, I don't know like [SPEAKER_01]: not that we weren't very good that me as a jumper wasn't like coming it wasn't placing it meets or anything I say you know what I mean even though like I was our best long jumper and triple jumper and high jumper I guess but that I don't know that was like my inferior already complex just being like I mean I guess technically I'm the person who should get this if you're going to do it but it feels more like you have to do field because you did track and so because you have to do field you have to do someone and you have to choose

40:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Realistically there's no reason to give out the field of war. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I would tell myself You I was gonna say you have you have really backed yourself into this one here where I was like It's like I was like I was the best jumper, you know on the team, which is like one of the field activities So like you know we weren't competitive, but I was the best one of the uncompetitiveness right yeah [SPEAKER_01]: I know.

40:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: This is how my brain worked in high school, so this is very funny, though, too. [SPEAKER_00]: Is that like, I mean, it's the classic thing, like where, because that was the same way with the cross country, like, you know, we go to the state meet or whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think I came in like a hundred and fifth or something like that.

40:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was like right in that range. [SPEAKER_00]: So that was, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: nowhere near doing something remarkable at the state meet but then it's like so I'm I'm not very competitive here amongst these 500 people right but then it's like you put yourself like [SPEAKER_00]: Like with those times across like the entire world and it's like I'm probably in the top like 0.1% Oh, yeah, for sure.

41:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so but it's like it just happens to be the case both the other that everyone else who's in the top one 0.1% is here Right exactly so like I feel like this has always been a thing like where yeah, like we're okay jumpers, you know Could like you know, I could never dunk but I could I could get right with both and get room.

41:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so there was there was that You know touch the ram on the basketball hoop [SPEAKER_00]: So it was funny though because like I feel like people in gym class, but yeah, but like been pretty good jumper, you know, but like definitely not in track and field right you know so yeah here in this room maybe a little bit Like at a meet no way right yeah exactly so anyway that was that was my big super lit of awards and then I got my I got most improved a couple of times here and there [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah for soccer and band for soccer and band.

41:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: The band one was just let's it felt like that one followed me around. [SPEAKER_01]: It was like this big almost like joke or something because when we moved here [SPEAKER_01]: uh... like i played the trumpet and so i was in eighth grade and the school that we came from like people in band like when you got to middle school you've basically had chosen elective and it was either like choir brass woodwinds or art or whatever like you have to do one of them [SPEAKER_01]: And so I, you know, I played the trumpet that was what it was, but like people took it because you had to take a class, you know, like you, you were playing the trumpet or you were playing your instrument because that was a class you had now, not because you were like, I love band, I want to play this instrument or whatever.

42:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe some people were, but I would say that was the, like, that was sort of mostly it. [SPEAKER_01]: Like people thought it was cool, suddenly like, I have an instrument. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm learning a thing, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was fun. [SPEAKER_01]: But then we moved to our new school, cave spring, and people they are took real pride in being in it.

42:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it was like a real, like everyone loved it. [SPEAKER_01]: The band director was great. [SPEAKER_01]: Like there was, you know, there was different levels of band and people really wanted to be in the top level. [SPEAKER_01]: Like they just really cared about it. [SPEAKER_01]: It was just a whole different, whole different atmosphere.

43:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Or whatever and I remember I got in there and I was like I would probably would have been like, you know, what one of the, you know, better people at my old school. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess, but I was just not the case here. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like I remember they're like, all right.

43:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's first week. [SPEAKER_01]: So I got to try out. [SPEAKER_01]: So you just kind of, it's like, don't worry about it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's no big deal. [SPEAKER_01]: You just come in and, you know, you'll play it like these four scales and then you like your chromatic scale or whatever.

43:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, you think I know those. [SPEAKER_01]: And I can play like one of them. [SPEAKER_01]: I can do that one. [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to play that one for you? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll do that four times. [SPEAKER_01]: How about I do that? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

43:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang [SPEAKER_01]: So that wasn't, that wasn't great.

44:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And kid 10 didn't show up. [SPEAKER_01]: No, kid 10 was there. [SPEAKER_01]: 10, yeah, and so throughout the year, there's an opportunity to like, you know, you could do like challenges where you could challenge the person in front of you, which I was sort of like a weird thing because it's like, if 10 challenges nine and nine challenges eight, it like, you know, what if 10 beats nine in the challenge, but nine beats eight in the challenge, you know?

44:29 [SPEAKER_00]: If, oh wait, would it not be the case? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess this is all a question. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know like how how you start the equation But it's like 10 challenges nine if they beat nine. [SPEAKER_00]: Do they then challenge eight and if they beat eight to the challenge seven like can you like just keep going down Well, but it's like yeah, you may be in theory, but it's all just like you know It's like one day in class.

44:51 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like there's rounds and rounds and rounds of this or something [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's an interesting bracket problem. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was like if if you were an odd like in that scenario It's so it seems like if you were an odd number you were at the mercy of being challenged by the person below you and didn't really have a chance Otherwise you're just defending it seemed like you know true.

45:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, you know everybody has to prepare in the event of a defense exactly exactly [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, Danielle got to choose the song that we were going to be, that she was challenging me to, or whatever, as the Challenger or whatever, and I'd like, let's, for what I, you know, for example, sake, we'll say it was like number 65 out of the book, or whatever.

45:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I'm not, I'm not going down the 10. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, the, the tiny scrap of pride I can cling onto here is not being dead last in trumpet, okay? [SPEAKER_01]: Right, so I went home and like legit took it seriously. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like I'm practicing this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and I am going to play it perfectly and I was I got very good, you know, song 65 from the book or whatever and come a challenge day we get out there and, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: The teacher's going around.

46:00 [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, okay, and you guys are doing song 65, and she was like, no, we're doing we're doing 70 and she was like, oh, sorry, we're on 65. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, 70 go and it was like wait, no, what no, what no, what what like no hold on hold on She said 65 and she is like, no, I said 70, I said 17 is like you did not and so she had she had said 65 and gone home and this is like, I guess was her plan the whole time and practice 70 to the end to great.

46:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, you think this is like, can I? [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it was yes, and so she nailed it and I didn't and I got knocked down to 10th and I was like Oh, I was so mad. [SPEAKER_00]: I was so mad any party. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I mean because I understand this too Like it's it's the kind of thing like where I would have a hard time speaking up about it Like is there any part of you that sort of like dude?

46:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I? [SPEAKER_00]: Like I heard 65 you had 65 I practice 65. [SPEAKER_00]: I can play you 65 and show you that I was good at 65 Right like to me and of course I have the full agency of being an adult now Who stand up for oneself exactly as like a like 12 13 year old. [SPEAKER_00]: I would not have that gumption at all [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and it's like, and if you're the teacher, it's like, this is the two worst trumpet players, you know, like, I don't really care.

47:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, what difference does it really make? [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: If you just point, it's like, she showed initiative for wanting to challenge you number. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, I should like the, yeah, if anything, it's like you got to be more that's the underdog.

47:26 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the person who's below. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you got to show, you got to give them a little bit of a leg up or whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, I was so mad as so much. [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, much like I'm sure the Hokies are feeling right now. [SPEAKER_01]: This lit an absolute fire underneath me and I was like, I'm not that's not happening again.

47:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So that was my like real motivation to get way better at the trumpet, which is some sure the exact purpose of these sorts of things anyway. [SPEAKER_01]: I am much of my own dismay the teachers. [SPEAKER_01]: of you know methods were working or whatever so later in the year they had the open challenge where it's effectively just retry out you know yeah yeah and rather than having the person doing the challenging choosing the song the teacher just chose the song for every single person in the class that way you know [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, everyone's doing the same one.

48:14 [SPEAKER_00]: You got to wonder whether or not this wise wasn't a little bit like hold on a second. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like something was a skew. [SPEAKER_00]: We don't normally do open trats, the middle of the year, but this year we shall. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's just like, it's just called to open challenge.

48:25 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like, so we're all doing the same song and based on how you do, we'll re, you know, we'll re-sort you or whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I go and I'm like, I spend so much time playing whatever song it was in my room getting it right like really honing in on it and we go to the open trials and I had the most shocking rise in the entire class man.

48:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I went from 10th to fourth. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, fourth for so good made the fourth be with me the fourth be with you. [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, then we get to the Got the end of the year concert or whatever and we're handing it. [SPEAKER_01]: She's handing out the superlitos away Bring it to most improved and she's like talking about it I don't know it's about to come to me or anything and she's like when this guy got here I'm not gonna hate me and he was kind of terrible, but and like everyone laughed or whatever and it was like well And then you know it was me and I was like, oh my god [SPEAKER_01]: You got so much better.

49:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I was like, but also it was a bit of a backhand there Yeah, I mean when he always started this did you say I was terrible? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure who's supposed to say that right right I don't owe how things have changed. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, how the yeah how the turns of table [SPEAKER_00]: back in my day.

49:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: It was like no wait a minute. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what people seem to remember that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Ms. [SPEAKER_01]: Wise told me I was terrible. [SPEAKER_01]: Even though she was giving me an award for being better.

49:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry about that man. [SPEAKER_00]: That's it. [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's rough buddy. [SPEAKER_00]: That's rough. [SPEAKER_01]: But no, it's fine. [SPEAKER_01]: That was it's good. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean here's an interesting question because like I feel like there's like the famous story about like Michael Jordan not making like his JV team or something like that or I don't know if that's like one of those stories that's like kind of vaguely true But like not entirely true or I don't I don't really know but yeah the point is is that like everybody knows that like MJ went on to be like a like goat material You know basically contested only by like Lepron James right much in or Kobe

50:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but like, you know, it's, like, verified air to say the least, but it's that, it's that, that narrative of, like, someone doubted them. [SPEAKER_00]: And like, every single person who goes on to be like professional athlete has like, [SPEAKER_00]: unusual drive inside of their bones in order to like make it to that level.

50:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's it can't just simply having been been doubted ever. [SPEAKER_00]: But like sometimes I do think when doubt is cast upon you, you cannot help but rise. [SPEAKER_00]: This was an even doubt, but this was straight up cheating. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I understand it was straight up cheating, but like I know to me.

50:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, step outside the bounds of [SPEAKER_00]: I mean it's like I don't like the idea of casting doubt on people like I think it's like cruel and mean and maybe vaguely manipulative but it's also like people rise to it you know and it's like it's like it's uh there's almost like a bizarre kind of like fantasy story greater good argument to be made where it's like [SPEAKER_00]: Man like does it does it like you know like that fire and I will or do mentors like see potential in like you know Is there a part of it where it's sort of like you need the right push?

51:37 [SPEAKER_01]: right to to become great right like they know how to push the right buttons to to light the fire for you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I suppose they do. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure that's definitely part of the skill is recognizing what is going to motivate your mentee the most.

51:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that's what Miss wise was doing in bandclass hard to say hard to say. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is another one where respective is everything. [SPEAKER_00]: We're like, when you're an adult and you realize that she was going to work every day and teaching, you know, probably three to four classes of approximately 50 people a lot of time, like, you're talking about 200 in something students most likely.

52:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's so many people that it is hard to have like a specific narrative attached to every single student in the class. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And obviously she did take special notice in you enough to wear this what this this happened. [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. [SPEAKER_00]: But like you the person especially at that age, you're so right at the center of your own universe.

52:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And like that is it becomes like one of those things where like you could probably realistically everybody could realistically ask themselves like am I the bad guy and [SPEAKER_00]: that is just simply the case, but because you're the main character of your story, it's hard to see it or to see yourself as the bad guy, for sure.

52:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, like because you know all your motivations, you know every single thing that got you to how, to where you are and, you know, assuming a moderate amount of ethics, you wouldn't have done those things if you didn't believe them to be the right thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah Danielle. [SPEAKER_01]: Danielle.

53:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I, it would be so, it would be so curious, like this, there's you have any idea, there's you have any idea. [SPEAKER_00]: So we've talked before about, there's a podcast called Heavy Wades that explores this thing that I have endless fascination in, but it is like long standing beefs that can be like resolved way after the fact, and it's like [SPEAKER_00]: It's to the point where it's like the podcast host like reaches out to the Danielle of the situation and it's sort of like look this this put this person on a completely different trajectory of course They're usually much more severe circumstances than right the likes of being 9th and 10th chair out of not that of your eighth grade trumpet class.

53:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly But like it would be fascinating to like almost have a day like our our like podcast recorder for example has a button here that allows us [SPEAKER_00]: to connect our phone directly to it. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, to do the thing, like, where the podcast listeners hear the... [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and then it's like Danielle and it's like Danielle Johnathan Carlin eighth grade.

54:17 [SPEAKER_00]: How are you? [SPEAKER_01]: How is life? [SPEAKER_01]: How is life? [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, well Kentucky's great. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know where Danielle lives, but it feels like Kentucky. [SPEAKER_01]: Who knows? [SPEAKER_00]: Just taking a guess.

54:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, but it's like, OK, do you remember eighth grade song 65? [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's like, I just like, I want to know her side of the story. [SPEAKER_00]: So you know, like, wouldn't it be crazy? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if she was just like, oh, yeah, I just like, I just like changed it.

54:41 [SPEAKER_00]: This would be like the discovery of carp girl. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it'd be really funny. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just like, it's like, how do you remember this story? [SPEAKER_00]: Because I've, I've told this story like on numerous occasions, I found it to be like a remarkable moment in my childhood.

54:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it really stood out to me. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I don't even, I fell in with a bunch of carp. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, honestly at this point in time as much as we've talked about on the internet and the sixth degrees of Kevin Bacon, I'm about like, someone is supposed to know her.

55:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone should know her. [SPEAKER_00]: Someone is supposed to know Carp Girl. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And there's no way their family doesn't like, doesn't like know how could this not be like a funny story that is legend in their family. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

55:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, she must be getting at least one gag gift per year, which is like a, like a carp shaped right ornament or right. [SPEAKER_00]: This comes up every Christmas. [SPEAKER_00]: without doubt. [SPEAKER_00]: It has to. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, these, these are the, these are the woes of life.

55:34 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll find it sometime. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, so would, would you ever cast out? [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever, would I ever seek out, it like, and ask her, because I guess, I mean, I'm not really hung up on it anymore. [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, I don't mean Danielle. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, would you ever use doubt?

55:48 [SPEAKER_00]: as like a motivational tool. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, oh, use like intentionally doubt someone. [SPEAKER_00]: Intentionally doubt someone because they've got more. [SPEAKER_00]: Like even just saying it, I hate it. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like the idea at all. [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely hate it. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I know, I know how much it's motivated me in the past and I'm not suggesting people do this.

56:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like it as a practice. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, it's like you look at it and it's got a tantalizing power about it. [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, why does it work? [SPEAKER_00]: But like, why is it wrong to do it the same time? [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, there's like the reverse psychology version of it.

56:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like with your kids where you're like, you know, like, oh, I don't think you can clean up your room in the next 10 minutes or something. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you know, sure. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: So like, I do, I guess, you know, there's there's like those things, but it's never like a genuine like, like, don't even bother like, I don't even, you know what, I'm not even going to keep asking.

56:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't, I don't know why I thought you could do it. [SPEAKER_01]: Like you clearly just can't, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: I can never imagine like saying that to like someone I was coaching or one of my kids for the sole reason of like Like psyching them into doing it. [SPEAKER_01]: No, it would be the worst.

56:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the apps the other thing to is that what you were I mean Okay, okay, I'm going to take a bizarre track here. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the the selflessness of of doubting someone [SPEAKER_01]: the selflessness of doubting someone. [SPEAKER_00]: I am talking absolute crap right now for absolute clarity.

57:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I do not believe in this. [SPEAKER_00]: This is the sound bite that was taken out of context if I'm running for office 15 years from now and it's like doubt people. [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no. [SPEAKER_00]: That what I was going to say though is that if you doubt someone out loud and they make it, they're probably not thinking you for that doubt.

57:30 [SPEAKER_01]: you make them a better person without getting any of the well this is this is almost the this is what happens in the bear basically so well yes yes yes yes in the show the bear lights boilers coming the main character carmy as you go through the story you learn that he used to work for this chef [SPEAKER_01]: Um, who was absolute like nightmare, you know, Hell's Kitchen style chef where he was yelling at him and burating him and telling everything he did was wrong all the time making him redo things even when they were perfect just to redo it or whatever and he eventually gets this like confrontation with him and he can say like you know I hated you you were your terrible person you shouldn't have treated me like that and the guy

58:16 [SPEAKER_01]: is just as bad as promised but he's just like I made you great what are you complaining about you know right like look at this you're now one of the best chefs in Chicago and you're mad at me from making you that way are you kidding I'm amazing like you know he has no regrets about it's also you don't get the feeling like it was like I knew you had greatness in you you know I was just doing that to pull it out of you it's not like that right not like that he's like [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I hardened you into steel, not, not, not because that was his goal.

58:48 [SPEAKER_01]: He's just like rude to people and this is like his excuse for it. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: The, the, the, the crucible. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, so anyway, that was, but yeah, I don't know if I could do that to someone myself. [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, I mean, that that was me being pure silliness, but it's basically just sort of like it's like, I mean, it has to have been the case before where people are like, see, see, I proved you wrong.

59:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, I'm sure that there's a measure of people who are like, yeah, no, I was [SPEAKER_00]: You let me go through all that! [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-uh! [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and it's like, I, uh-uh! [SPEAKER_00]: I think, I mean, I've told the story numerous times on the old interweb, you know, doing like that, like a speech contest once upon a time where I was given the first place to board and then had it taken back and it basically was like a result backwards situation or whatever, but like it's so funny to even think about that situation because all it did was demoralize.

59:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Like maybe I'm maybe I'm not a good, um, [SPEAKER_00]: Like medium, you know, like if if you're sculpting out of like marble or whatever, it's like maybe I'm not like the right the right material for this kind of thing because it I take it so painfully To wait what to be motivated. [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's like if I'm told I'm not good at something.

1:00:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like oh [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're right. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not never mind. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll just give it up for good. [SPEAKER_00]: You've never been motivated in this way. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, I'm sure that I have. [SPEAKER_00]: But like, you know, doing that speech contest thing as a kid, especially when our dad was like a TV news broadcaster to person, it was like the idea of being able to speak in front of people was like, it's like the kind of thing we're like, [SPEAKER_00]: if you grow up the son of like a carpenter or something, it feels like a lot of times you can go on to be a good carpenter yourself because an unnaturally early age you were, you know, run in the table Saul's right.

1:00:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I had like romanticized this thought in my head as a kid like like this is in my bones. [SPEAKER_00]: This is in my DNA. [SPEAKER_00]: Like [SPEAKER_00]: That, you know, because of course, you know, the minute you're a little kid to a resident car, you can grow up to be like your dad, you're going to be on TV.

1:01:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And and so it's just like a thing. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you go out there and you do like a public speaking competition in Luz, like in very embarrassing fashion. [SPEAKER_00]: It was kind of like, yeah, no, like, right. [SPEAKER_00]: This is not what I meant to do. [SPEAKER_00]: What parent.

1:01:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: I had every [SPEAKER_00]: I had every advantage in the world, in my head, you know, and this big romanticized vision just basically was like a balloon that got popped and it was kind of like, maybe I shouldn't do that, maybe I should like, sidestep entirely. [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

1:01:30 [SPEAKER_00]: But then it's interesting because we do what we do now. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, but then like, if you were to ask me in high school, it's almost like, like, I would have told you like, [SPEAKER_00]: don't want to do that, don't want to be on TV, don't want to be a personality of any kind, but I also didn't know what I wanted to do otherwise, and so like part of the oblast wasn't this me thinking in real time a little bit, but part of me almost wonders if you just took like the thing that I knew as a kid I was supposed to do and I like buried it under a whole bunch of dirt and it was like of course you can't figure out what you're supposed to do because the thing that you're supposed to do, you've discouraged yourself from doing,

1:02:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right. [SPEAKER_01]: You didn't do the like when you fall off the horse to get back on you were like when if all the horse is shoot the horse You bury the horse you get in the grave yourself. [SPEAKER_01]: What's the problem exactly? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean the horse lived down here forever That's what you're supposed to do.

1:02:18 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, sorry, sir. [SPEAKER_00]: That was You're supposed to ride that horse for a very long time Yeah, it's like shoot the horse buried it get down in there with that [SPEAKER_01]: That's what it sounds like. [SPEAKER_00]: The old thing when you fall off the horse, shoot the horse, shoot the horse.

1:02:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't shoot the horse. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't shoot the horse. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Like the horse. [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway. [SPEAKER_00]: Very interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: But I'd be curious whether or not any little kernels out there. [SPEAKER_00]: If anybody's got a good story of having been doubted and rising above.

1:02:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And then most importantly, what is your relationship with the doubter? [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's the other thing, too. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, if you can look at it and be like, ding it, it made me a better person. [SPEAKER_00]: it's like, does that, does that ever shift to compassion at some point in time or does that frustration just sort of continue to be like a little, you know, candle of fuel that is like lit in your heart at all times?

1:03:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: So if you have any feedback for us, you can send it over to PopcornCulturePod at gmail.com. [SPEAKER_00]: Or as we mentioned earlier, we got our step competition going on with our Patreon right now. [SPEAKER_00]: We also have exclusive merch and bonus content, every listening, all that [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

1:03:36 [SPEAKER_00]: But otherwise, until next time, pop, pop, pop, have a good time. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Today's episode was edited by Isabelle Crisley, Vaishon Brandon, does our art, Katherine Stein is our production manager, and the show is hosted by me, in Jonathan Carlin.