The Cyber Pandemic Is Here: AI Found a Hole in the Code Running Most of the Web | Rabbit Hole Recap 425

0:00 You've had a dynamic where money has become freer than free. When you talk about a Fed just gone nuts, all the central banks going nuts. So it's all acting like safe haven. I believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency, Bitcoin wins. In the world of fiat currencies, Bitcoin is the victor.

0:28 I mean, that's part of the bull case for Bitcoin. If you're not paying attention, you probably should be. Black Thursday. Black Thursday. Secure your systems, freaks. It's all going down. The cyber pandemic is here. Blacktober. Blacktober. It's going to be all month. All month is going to be like this.

0:48 Blacktober. What's Bitcoin at? Back down to 81? Is that what I saw? we used to have a block clock but we unplugged it because of um a block clock black clock the block clock a block clock yeah okay nice it's blacked over ah that's crazy out there how was your week how's your week been i missed you yesterday i was in new york it was great you couldn't meet up right week yeah we were gonna make you got you got held up uh in post-production It's been a great week.

1:22 Went out to Nash Vegas. Saw the last installment of the Peter Thiel lecture on the Antichrist. How has it evolved? We've talked about this. I saw the last lecture in Austin two years ago. What was it like last night? Well, this was the first one. This was Monday. This was the first one I've been to. And I missed the first three installments of this series in Nashville.

1:43 I was hoping to make more, but just couldn't get out. Very happy I made the last one. It was way better than I was expecting. he's way funnier um he ripped for over two hours um this one was titled new rome and he there were like two frameworks that he was working with um uh the progression of power in the west or like the seed of the west starting with you know uh pax romana pax britannia pax americana um and that there's no successor to that and the west probably dies when yeah america falls um and then that That framework is also presented alongside what the Antichrist needs to come to power and seek the ruin of souls.

2:30 And that includes basically a financial hegemon, a military hegemon, and a cultural slash influential hegemon. And both of those are coinciding kind of now. So he's very concerned about the election in 2028 and 32, because that would be sort of the opportunity for an antichrist. And something else that's in the backdrop is one sort of one world government.

2:59 So as governments try to drive for peace, take down borders, borders are a social construct, 15 minute cities. All of these things are definitely in the backdrop and create a nice, perfect stew for a potential antichrist to do their thing. It was great. I usually fidget a lot, like didn't even look at my phone once.

3:21 I sat next to, I don't know if he'll be, he'll probably be fine with the doxing of this. But Rob Hamilton, CEO of Bitcoin, was next to me taking a lot of notes throughout the lecture. It was a really fun time. It's a great lecture series. Again, I made two of the four. You have to go see Touch Field.

3:43 People talk about this guy. I was like, all right, what's he all about? You can go see. And you can definitely see the infrastructure he describes, particularly in the fourth lecture being laid out. I think this week we'll talk about it when we get into the meat of the episode, but I think this week certainly points in that direction too.

4:06 You have a cyber pandemic, critical systems, woefully insecure around the world right now. And it would not be shocking to see a coalition of governments come together and say, Hey, we need to shut this down. We're going to turn the off button on. We're going to hit the off button for the internet for a few weeks and we'll come back.

4:28 There's going to be some new rules. Okay. There's going to be some new rules for the internet. That's what that's two weeks happening. Two weeks to flatten the curve. Another thing that he spoke to, which I appreciated, was he's a big sovereign individual fan, big fan of the book. I think that he was living for a period of time, very interested in seasteading, a bunker in New Zealand, going to Argentina, kind of a mandibles approach to things.

4:59 Slightly different perspective or a different tune at this lecture. There's no running. There's no hiding. You got to talk about these things You got to face these things and stand some ground at some point because in the world of a one world government and uh the antichrist returning there is no running and hiding so um it it was it was a super super fascinating lecture i'm very happy i went and actually leaving the next day i i had a more profound sadness that i missed the first three so uh i hope he continues the series and the series continues to evolve with some of the shit that's being thrown at us um it's good stuff and if i recall correctly the fourth lecture series as it pertains to i think this might have been the q a section no i think it was part of the

5:48 lecture but ai what do we do with ai is ai the antichrist like is this a tool of the antichrist and how should we approach interacting with it and i think i said this to you a couple months ago but it was essentially his response was you just have to lean into it it's a double-edged sword it's technology can be wielded for good yeah it's bad and so try to ride the wave and use it to your advantage yeah um that was definitely uh i would say a bit more muted the title of the last lecture in this series was called the new rome and you know what is rome what's the importance of rome as the seat of power for the rest of the west um he spoke a lot about the catechon catechism catechism no no no no catechon

6:37 look that up for me Jonathan it's basically the entity that keeps the antichrist at bay and he spoke about individuals or like systems that are keeping the antichrist at bay or preventing the combination of those three that you need the financial hegemon military, cultural, influential he talked about that in different formats in the United States maybe Trump could be considered or some other politician maybe culture and the internet are actually playing that role he's not a Catholic, I think he describes himself as a lowercase o orthodox but a lot of Catholics at the after party were talking about the Kachakan is probably the Holy Spirit it evoked some really interesting conversations for the after party um quite enjoyable but yeah

7:35 it was mostly focused on the new rome and the concept of a new rome and also big shout outs to nashville in terms of the religiosity the christianity so deeply ingrained in the history of the city and you know the uh coastal cities are not necessarily the ones that are um they are the ones that may dictate the antichrist returning or coming um but uh places like nashville having a a significant level of importance on a go forward basis if we do see some of these things to pass it comes to pass yeah was josh centers there you know josh uh chapter house chapter house his wife hannah run chapter house they make the children's books they're i saw that he was tweeting that he went to the first one i was wondering uh

8:26 it was like a thousand people in the venue um it was at the masonic lodge right on broadway yeah um it was it was a sweet venue really they're really trying to stay away from the uh from the conspiracy theorists there at the masonic lodge i mean it was great peter at the masonic lodge talked about the antichrist and then the after party was at a one-for-one replica of the parthenon with like a gigantic statue of athena um so pagan symbolism the masons the Antichrist.

8:58 It was a great Monday. Is it like one of those Luciferian Kabbalistic things where they have to tell you what they're doing? It's like we're going to be in the Masonic Lodge talking about the Antichrist and we're going to go worship these pagan gods at the Parthenon after. I don't know, but it definitely had a certain allure to it being in the Lodge.

9:22 Yeah. Are you going to become a member? Did they ask you to become a member? you know any mason's tap you on the shoulder conversations are just starting you know i got a long journey ahead i'm i'm happy with my my spot in ocia for the time being on another uh on another note you see uh the sixers spoiled your your ring night i just i am really looking forward to lebron being on the east coast so i can just uh talk about how insanely corrupt the NBA is and watch him bitch and moan about the United States and fans chirping at him and everything hobbling up and down the court you guys are cooked go Knicks good luck good luck he's complaining about the United States well he was practicing his golf swing during the national anthem

10:11 oh very disrespectful come on LeBron come on yeah very disrespectful I believe Trump called him out a couple hours ago on Twitter Did he really Or maybe he said he sent the truth The truth is that very disrespectful It is What else is going on? How are the vibes in New York? You guys have the Christmas decorations up already.

10:35 I can see it looks a little early. No, we do it around Halloween. We don't like the evil spirits. We got to tell them who's coming. Yeah, we start to get ready. They're up in full swing before Thanksgiving, typically. New York dive bar, Christmas is very important. The best dive bars have their Christmas decorations up early in November and they stay up until early February, typically.

11:02 Do you guys hire somebody to come do that? No, that's Jerk. That's why we have Jerk. Okay. All right. That's good enough. Yeah, I don't know if I got a bad pack. You got my kids addicted to Pokemon cards. know if that's a variety pack across a couple of different sets then um how much how many cards in that 25 i believe how much did you pay for it i don't know like 25 30 oh oh yeah look you know you could get something they're trying to get you hooked i mean the boys are certainly hooked you know the ones that are solid gold um there are only a couple of solid gold ones that are authentic um that are super rare the rest of the solid gold ones are just like chinese knockoffs on on uh amazon yeah so godspeed you gotta you gotta buy from a reputable reseller

12:01 sorry we got we got a lot going on this week we got a lot to get to we've got senators calling for uh staffers to be thrown in prison for working for the the trump administration we've got exploits across the internet we've got jp morgan and fidelity and others recommending bitcoin jp morgan thinks it's going to be the best performing asset throughout the rest of this decade what else do we got on tap here we got new products launching in bitcoin uh chamath chamath saying it's going to zero yeah we got elon on uh energy and work currency yeah we'll hit it all but first according to clark's dashboard where the current price of bitcoin is 81 270 cuck bucks one cuck bucks and get you 1231 sats with a 1.63 trillion dollar

12:58 market cap looking at block height 972 643 we are officially 1,085 blocks away from the next difficulty retarget estimated on October 29th next Thursday. Looking like a 3.3 upwards adjustment right now. Blocks have been coming in 9 minutes and 34 seconds on average. We had an upwards adjustment of 5.9% last week.

13:28 largest difficulty adjustment and uh highest point that hash rate has been in um has been at since march of this year so hash rate recovering despite the fact that everybody's transitioning to ai compute mining so hot right now so hot right back and i guess we'll start there did you say what were the fees what's the vbytes uh per vbyte two stats per vbyte according to clark's dashboard and he's got he's got 3,000 or 4,654 transactions, mempool a bit more 60,679 they're saying 4 sats per vbyte for next block if you want to get in you got F2 pool mining 2 of the last 3 blocks foundry 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 of the last 10 foundry 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 8 nine ten four the last ten so five four the last ten blocks forty percent

14:31 a little bit of a bump i think last week it was uh one sat per v bite um they're still low it's still basically free yeah it's very low it's very low um hash rate recovering though i like to see it like to see it we're in that that shoulder period between middle summer middle winter so demand response not uh not such a thing right now but uh we'll see how that that plays out through the winter and uh we'll get into it said mining so hot right now since we're talking about that uh logan pull up the heat bit story we'll pull that up to the front because uh it pertains it's a good segue they uh they came out with the bit water today which is the water heater element with 20 mining chips.

15:23 They have the BM 1370s. It screws into the bottom part of a normal 30 to 80 gallon electric tank. It uses the same electricity you were already using and it heats up the water with A6 And I i thought this is very creative alex and the team at hitbit heatbit excuse me basically said okay instead of building because i think there's been a long talked about application within the bitcoin mining world particularly the home mining world i was like okay how do we get this integrated into our home systems there's a lot of companies that are like okay we're gonna have to go build our own water heater but alex and the team at heatbit basically said well you have these electric water heaters which I think are like between 40 and 60% of the market in the U S and probably more so in Europe.

16:09 And instead of building your own water heater, you can just replace the, the rod that heats up the water and the existing electric heaters with the, with a new rod that has a six in it. So it's beautiful to say. Can I have a little argument? Don't run the dishwasher. I'm trying to hit a black turn that shit off i think that there was already one of these out of europe um i'm trying to look it up but um sunbit does that ring a bell it does it does it does yeah and then there's uh another one austria austrian 21 energy um they they had a a whole home central heating version oh no that'll launch this quarter uh superheat look this is interesting it's trended energy i don't know i haven't looked at this too closely in terms of

16:59 the profitability um but integrating in these things this has been a dream back when bellagy before he was at uh coinbase right 21 co 21 co 21 e right no that that's andrew de santis Bellagio was 21. Okay. Yeah, the toaster was going to pay for itself the more you use it or whatever. There are lots of small instances where you can implement mining and get some money out of it.

17:33 But do they have schematics on profitability, payback schedules, stuff like that on the site? So you're going to get 34 terahash a second at up to 600 watts from a 12 joules per tera hash asex so it's efficient chip which is actually pretty surprising uh water cool with no fans and comes with a powered uh a node and a leak sensor um so out of the box it's going to mine solo and heat bits pool to an address you control you can switch to luxor or another pool if you want to it doesn't work with gas or heat pump heaters yet the heat bit says it has things coming for gas.

18:10 And so, yeah, 34 terahash a second, 12 joules a terahash. Not too shabby. I mean, good lotto mine. Look, yeah, it's a good lotto mine. It's not going to make you rich. If you're going to a pool, maybe it takes a chunk out of the electricity bill or the heating bill or whatever. It needs a poke in the eye, I suppose, if you have that heat or excess energy to scrape some pennies off of it rather than just wasting it with a traditional heater it might make sense for some new builds or if it's easy enough to swap out if you need a new heater yeah well or you can just look at it like hey i'm paying this electric bill anyway why don't i switch out there's a rod and if i'm a long-term believer in bitcoin just like you can either solo mine lotto mine or just mine to a pool and have

18:57 have a small mining stack built up over the course of 10 years yeah yeah and i guess in this case i'm probably miss misusing uh wasted energy it's just it's not wasted it's it's just a double use of it yeah exactly yeah you were you were using the electricity to heat the rod anyway might as well make some money while you're doing it yeah exactly uh very cool pretty cool i live in an apartment building i don't have use for this but the space heater it's pretty cool yeah so it's 8.99 for the first batch and later batches will be up to 1299 $1,299. Reservations are refundable and it's going to ship in Q1 in 2027. So that is if you want to see that we'll have a link in the show notes.

19:49 If you're on YouTube you should be able to see that link already if you want to go check it out. um we covered bank of america fine last week um but we should probably have a recap because there's more banking news this week maybe not a recap but like an extension that the occ has released the final rules for the genius act uh which drops its rebuttal presumption on yield paid through affiliates so this is round two of the yield fight that we just started last week the aba the american banking association uh that was the reason they really did not want clarity act and successfully prevented it from uh going uh getting getting passed into law with sharing the yield on stable coins trump administration said occ sec cftc go rule make anyway uh and it looks like the occ is

20:47 coming out and say, hey, we're going forward with this and i do believe the banks pushed back this week and said it was egregiously irresponsible the occ to make rules like this um so i think the catch here is that the anti-money laundering and um sanction rules are not included in this one so that'll be provided separately from treasury so i don't think it's It's completely done yet.

21:16 And this is the problem with having different regulatory bodies do this in a haphazard way. It's good that they're continuing and they have some of the freight work in place. I think Atkins at the SEC and I'm blanking on his name at CFTC. Help me out with him. Selig? Selig? Selig. Thank you. They're trudging ahead.

21:38 The OCC is more reliant on coordination with the Treasury, obviously. But we'll have to see where that goes, where the surveillance is going to live, how they're going to deal with blacklists and freezes and clawbacks and KYC on wallets and stuff like that. But this launched on the same day as the SoFi tokenized deposit that pays 4.4 percent and swaps one to one into its own stablecoin.

22:06 some other news internationally france uh levying a 31 tax if you swap cryptocurrency into a stable coin um somewhat similar to what we saw out of illinois i've been talking on the bird app a little bit about uh new york state wanting to push that through there's a lot of a lot of movement in this area from a bunch of different directions but the faster this administration can harden some of the some of the nice to haves or need to haves for folks in the stable coin space and the stable coin yield space in the absence of the clarity act you know the better for for the coin bases of the world i suppose yeah i mean so far is pretty pretty massive that they're offering the shot across the battle of the bank system 15.8 million registered members um pretty popular

23:01 pretty popular neobank if you go is that what they consider neobank i mean we consider so far yeah i suppose um revolute another good one yeah well i mean i'm kidding i mean we'll get to that too because there's uh we'll talk about the php bug but um france like europe illinois you never if you're in america or in united states individual state you're aligning your tax regime or your tax regulations and rules similar to that of france uh you're in a bad spot so illinois shame on you france uh do you think they're being conquered right now? Do you think they have the violence on the leverage on violence as a state to actually push back against these riots? I don't know. The Saturday, the Saturday demonstration,

23:59 protest, march, whatever they're calling it, um, riot, uh, definitely looks a lot like that. It's so hard to tell from Twitter. I'm not in Paris. I'm not like physically there. So you only have one view into it, which is just ripe for psyop territory. Um, but it doesn't look good. But if you just look at the numbers, France is kind of fucked in a number of different regards.

24:24 I think Nick Carter put out a good tweet, a good series of tweets on like they don't have any wiggle room here to throw more. They're already throwing all the resources they have at these things. And you have a lot of people demanding more support, more financial support, more resources. They're tapped out.

24:42 so they're going to turn around and they're going to pick on how much yield how much how much tax revenue do they really expect to get out of this 31 swap um people are just not going to do it nearly as much that's not going to be enough to to really move the needle um in a a macro sense for for uh for france they're they're fucked yeah and again it doesn't stop them from trying talking about individual states here in america making same way i saw that nick had a long tweet on california too with this what's the prop 40 is that what they're calling it this billionaire tax um is it prop 40 i forget what it is anyway they're threatening a billionaire tax uh and something like 30 of california's 200 billionaires have already fled the state

25:31 which represents something like a 39 billion dollar loss and between individuals and companies leaving the state. I think something like $39 billion in lost potential revenue. And the 5% one time hit would only produce something like $31 billion. So they're already negative. Yeah, but this is an escalation almost because they're not going to lose a ton of votes over this 31 tax in France for example They going to lose votes and they going to lose massive Prop 40 So they going to lose votes over that That becoming a partisan issue already But more importantly, it's a net loss when you start to lose Sergey Brin, Peter Thiel, Elon.

26:16 Looks like Zuck might be on his way out. Who would stay? I saw the CEO of United Airlines said that the inheritance tax should be close to 99 like they're they do exist i suppose um but you know sticking around when this stuff is is fomenting is just insane and that is insane 99 like what is that i mean these self-loathing billionaires like the ceo of united airlines who in their right mind would think it's a good idea if you if you work hard you create a good business you scale that business you provide value to society you provide a good and service that people like and they get value out of and you make things more efficient you make the market better you innovate you drive forward you amass a certain amount of wealth at the end

27:10 of your life you advocate for the government to take 99 of it and to allocate it efficiently if you're working hard and you have a big family isn't the point to try and build a dynasty and like a legacy it used to be it used to be Rothschild's got that one right they're still around I mean it's kind of the point a big family and you know working hard to build something um so there is something very nihilistic about this approach with effective altruism particularly with the backdrop of what's happening to you know Americans as opposed to the newcomers um said as politely as i possibly can dude i think she's going back she's going back dude it's not looking good i i was emphatically against it last time i feel like the odds are trending did you see

27:58 um not to my knowledge when yes it was directly asked about whether she married her brother and she goes nothing i don't know yeah no it's cool hey we all we all get a little crazy sometimes i don't know yeah we make everybody makes mistakes yeah i've got a fuzzy memory around it did i accidentally marry my brother I suppose it's possible yeah it's too weird man all this stuff that's hitting I'm getting tired of looking you know at news articles from established institutions and then also just the noise on Twitter and saying oh that's weird I didn't think about it that way I mean it's pretty cliche but it is true like the parallels and the rhyming nature in the air right now between today and early 2020 with COVID.

28:53 I mean, we talked about this a couple weeks ago too, like the timeline. Maybe beginning of 27 is when things really pop off and they begin to clamp down. But I said it in the tweet last night, wrote it in the commoner newsletter this morning. Your antennae should be raised and you should prepare yourself for the onslaught of propaganda coming from all angles across a slew of different topics.

29:15 And I guess we can just segue straight into the PHP bug because I think the timing of it is quite interesting when you consider everything going on in France like we just discussed. You have... Well, real quick, midterms. I don't think it's 2027. I think we're in it. Will you let me finish? Sorry. You said 2027.

29:37 We're in it, brother. I know. Like 2020. 20, 2019 is when like things started popping off in the repo markets and you had the flu, the woo-hoo, Wuhan flu starting to go around. If you were deep on the internet, you started seeing videos of people just rolling over and dying in China, big sigh up. But France, American envoys escaping the US basically this week to big news.

30:06 The US went into the Middle East. Trump was like, ah, deuces were out. like fend for yourselves to uh middle eastern gulf states there it's saudi uae qatar oman and there are reports of rich rich middle easterners escaping their countries because they they think that the specter of an escalation in iran is upon us same time you have zelensky coming out and be like hey like i'm willing to get to the table and figure this out with uh russia and then midterms less than two weeks away here in the United States.

30:44 And then bam, the internet becomes apparent that there's been some late in zero days, one of the most popular backend frameworks, PHP, that's been sitting around for 20 years. And lo and behold, something like 70% of websites are dependent on PHP to one extent or another. And it all crescendoing in a in a tornado of of shit chaos and discombobulation to your point That what what started this was uh you getting tired It hard to keep up is that the point are they trying to confuse us to overwhelm us i would not be shocked before our midterms october 27th elections in israel it does seem like a lot of stuff is uh coalescing um the uh the remarks from zelinski did seem a bit ominous I thought they were positive. You thought ominous? I mean, I thought he was basically

31:41 saying like, hey, we're tapped out. I'm open to. Tapped out for sure. But it's such a massive change in direction in terms of his rhetoric and the approach. And it didn't get nearly as much attention. Like, why is it coming out now? It feels like there's more to the story that I think you're alluding to. We're not kind of seeing the full picture just yet. But uh major elections uh the 26th is the kineset 27th i believe the general um about less than a week later about a week later you got midterm elections um so this stuff is ramping up now um you have i mean i alluded to earlier but you have stock in the senator from i forget which state she michigan where she michigan yep but she's beginning to see the uh

32:31 the narrative that they're going to manipulate the elections uh the republicans are um she basically ran with the narrative trump's going to call in a state of emergency and confuse people about midterms then she's saying we need to throw all the staffers in jail uh so there is was she targeting the staffers or was it the the the folks i thought that was more targeted towards like an elon figure than a than a staffer oh no that was direct at a staffer um disincentivize young potentially young staffers from working with a republican and college students i think she was at a college he was like we want to send a message to the young republicans like don't you dare try to go work on a staff because uh we will throw you in jail essentially said in other ways

33:24 but um so like a big balls yeah like a big balls okay uh and that uh that type of intimidation is is quite quite odd i think it's projection as well um and then you had kara swisher uh the lesbian podcaster she was saying that we should throw elon in jail um we need to send the messages people are categorically insane yeah um but do they have the ability to actually do this is the concern i think it can get really crazy if everything breaks hard and i'm not i'm not a republican by any stretch i'm not a democrat either, but the pendulum swing gets much more pronounced and intense every single time.

34:19 And if we're going to revisit the crackdown across social media and media platforms, and there's more choke points that are expressed and new choke points come to light, it could be a pretty dark stretch. That's what Peter was talking about with the Antichrist coming. Yeah. How do we turn the tide? Well, I mean...

34:45 Can we do anything? Can me and you do anything? Can we bring the vibes up here? I can't bring the vibes up. We try to. Look at Data After Dark, for example. Everybody's really pissed off. People that are anti-data centers, people that are pro data centers, they feel like they're under attack. They're trying to progress and build new businesses and innovate in new areas. Everybody's pissed off.

35:09 There was a beautiful party that came out of it that only half the side thought was a beautiful party. But you got to keep vibes high and you have to keep the faith that in the end, building and sticking to the culture and community that you believe in will persevere. but right now it's really easy to get bogged down in some of the bullshit that's going on because whether it's real or not it's being presented in just like a gatling gun format on twitter and elsewhere and it's it's hard to to break away but touch grass hug your kids get off of twitter and keep building is is sort of what i try to stick to yeah i had a lovely roast beef club at the local tavern right before there we go i walk to and from to and fro what's more important to you

36:01 that roast beef club or the php hack come on i don't know i was i was on amtrak headed back to philly last night like i hope they don't fucking break into amtrak's critical systems while i'm on this train and i think i mean to that i mean so let's get into it php so it's a language running under the hood of 69 percent of all websites uh whose server language w3 text can identify WordPress Drupal Joomla Wikipedia you name it A ton of content management systems a ton of data systems I mean, we were talking about this, I forget last week or the week before, Mt.

36:36 Gox famously was built with a PHP backend, which wasn't really form fitting for a Bitcoin exchange. It was very leaky even back then. Um, and so, yeah, I mean, anybody that, you know, who's the system admin or in, uh, security in, in the tech world is freaking out. I mean, they're calling it, they're calling it the worst cyber event ever.

37:01 Uh, and it does, I mean, it does seem pretty insane when you consider, consider the breadth of it. And I've just been reading, I was on the train, doom scrolling people laying out the scenario. I mean, there's a ton of servers out there. that were spun up a decade ago that are critical to some companies, the system admin that set it up and just set it on cruise controls, no longer with the company. They don't know how to get in.

37:26 And so, I mean, for the technical details of these, I believe it was two CVEs that were disclosed yesterday and the way in which they rolled this out was very weird too. Apparently they've known since the middle of August or middle of September and they decided Tuesday night to say, all right, tomorrow at 9 a.m. or whatever, we're going to release the patches for this.

37:49 We're going to announce the CVEs and release the patches. Simultaneously, everybody has 12 hours to figure out how to update their systems, so get ready. But essentially, what the CVEs enabled somebody to do is just to get access to the root of the server that the PHP was running on and get full control over it and do remote execution of code and infiltrate and exfiltrate data.

38:15 And it seems like people were successfully doing that. And that was like the weird thing. They set off the alarm bell and all anybody had to do is get to like deep seek version 4.1 and say, find the vulnerabilities in PHP. And they were able to find them rather trivially before the CVE was actually patched.

38:30 So not great, Bob. Not great, Bob. It's the speed. Cheap exploits. So Eric Prince, I think this was a Bronze Age pervert podcast, Caribbean Rhythms. Eric Prince started talking about a book called Firepower, How Weapons Shaped Warfare by Paul Lockhart. Highly recommend this book. It combines warfare.

38:54 Well, it looks at warfare through the lens of economics and technology. When you have a technological advancement that makes certain types of attacks much cheaper, it changes the paradigm of warfare completely. And it goes through the entire history of warfare, you know, Bronze Age, Iron Age, so on and so forth, all the way up to the atomic weapon.

39:17 This podcast was early in the Ukraine-Russia conflict. So they were talking mostly about strapping a grenade to a drone and how cheap and effective that was to fly this thing. And this is kind of an extension of that when exploits become this cheap and you can have every 20-year-old code base getting reviewed by clankers and completely rugged or worse exploited.

39:49 I'm sure there are worse exploits where you keep the thing running and it's compromised only to do a dirty deed after the fact. We'll see how that's going to progress. but it's nasty. Also, the response by the NSA and the CISA was kind of interesting. I saw a couple of comments on Twitter about how they just lost their very valuable backdoors for these vulnerabilities.

40:16 But yeah, I think highly recommend if you're interested in this particular line of thought that I'm rambling through, Firepower by Paul Lockhart is a good read. Yeah. Well, Logan, keep this up because I think this is a perfect illustration of what you're describing. It's like, it's obvious the CVE tracker, how many critical vulnerabilities there have been in software projects over the course of time. And I believe this goes back to before 2008. So yeah, this is probably like 1998. You just look at the exponential growth that we've seen over the last five years, but more specifically over the last three months, we've gone from 6,000 CVEs to over 15,000 in the course of a few months here.

41:07 And so to your point, the cost of discovering these vulnerabilities and exploiting them has been driven dramatically lower with these AI tools. And this is the new normal. And I mean, you weren't there. You were at Madison Square Garden, but this was something that Rob Hamilton And our doubt and I discussed a coin base that at pub key, uh, NYC last week, but our doubt said specifically, like we're probably in this period where we're going to discover all these vulnerabilities.

41:38 Some of them are going to be exploited. A lot of them are going to be patched over time. Once you get red teams for each individual industry spun up and having agent swarms really dissect and audit their code bases and review what's going on, present patches. But there's going to be a period of time where this line continues to go completely vertical.

41:59 But hopefully at some point in the future, the whole development process and review process and PR merge process is going to be changed. or hopefully we get to a point where you're not even merging bugs because they get caught by the reviewer agent swarm that's looking at your code base. So there's been, correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't seen a confirmed breach for PHP to shell yet.

42:23 Is that right? That is false. Railway, which is a database, they got infiltrated. I think they had to shut down their service. they're telling all their customers to swap out their hotkeys or their API keys and credentials. Okay. So I'm seeing my clanker just responded. Cloudflare has seen millions of attempts but the US, German and Dutch cyber agencies say they haven't seen one succeed yet.

42:58 Amazon also saying that they were seeing exploits four days before the patch. which is interesting if they were able to, you know, keep this under wraps, I guess. Okay, maybe it's not PHP specific, but Logan, you can pull this up. Railway said earlier this morning, so this is Wednesday, this is yesterday, earlier this morning, railway detected anomalous activity involving systems that store customer environment variables.

43:28 After further investigation, our investigation to date indicates that an unauthorized third party may have accessed encrypted environment variables and for some of them obtained the decrypted contents. Environment variables may contain secrets such as API keys or databases. In registry, credentials will be this part of a series of attacks recently.

43:47 Targeting platform companies with the aim of compromising AI inference providers. We have notified the upstream providers to revoke all keys proactively as we take these kinds of events extremely seriously. Yeah, there are a couple. I'm not sure that anybody is attributing it directly to PHP just yet. At least that's the report I'm looking at. But there's PingCap, a cloud database company. Hackers say they took over 10 terabytes using passwords left in the company's own code. PingCap confirmed it. There's LightLLM. There's Fearless Wallet, which was a Polkadot wallet.

44:28 god this is jerks computer you okay yeah there we go i'm back yeah can you hear me yeah there we go he just had a call come in um yeah there's a tongue going on it logan pull this up too i i spin this is positive i mean it's very bad what's going on but i think highlighting again what we were saying earlier, these AI tools are a double-edged sword.

45:00 You have to lean into them. And I'm sure you saw last week people began just jailbreaking the Android software on their LG TVs and others and setting up new UIs that are much faster and more intuitive than the out-of-the-box software that comes with the TVs. But this guy, this gentleman, I believe this is a translated tweet.

45:26 No, it's not. He basically used Claude to find a zero data root shell into his new Samsung TV and discovered privacy horrors. There's an always-on hot mic functionality. Plus, it has automatic content recognition, geopositioning, network mapping, a targeted ad service, four distinct DRM services, user profile buildings.

45:51 so much more juicy telemetry. Just you got a $3,000 TV in Samsung plus there are 400 partners. So it looks like Samsung. And I think it's safe to say or safe to assume LG and the other TV providers that have these Wi-Fi enabled TVs are doing this too. And that's one thing I want. I've never connect my TV to Wi-Fi.

46:13 We have Apple TVs. I'll connect the Apple TV to the Wi-Fi, but never the actual TV itself. And I don't know. heard horror stories of even if you don't do that like they're still phoning home and yeah but with root access you can jailbreak your your your tv now and uh so if you do have your tv on wi-fi and you have claude on your computer on the same wi-fi you can have it uh i guess explore maybe you want to use maple and a strong open weight model for privacy so you're not sending the the contents of of your your local network back to anthropic or open AI But hypothetically it looks like you can if you on the same network find the TV find the zero days associated with the operating system it's running, rip out all the spyware

47:03 and create a better user experience for your at-home TV. I don't think anything has turned out to be worse of an idea than the IoT bullshit. it. Like download the app so that you can use the air fryer function on your GE oven. There's another one. I think Piehole. Piehole is a device that sits near the router and can block some of the outgoing pings. Piehole? Piehole. You know, people are going to have to get a lot smarter on these things, particularly... Start9. Start9 has a new router.

47:39 she just got mine delivered um you can really lock down your local your local network um yeah there's ways to do it but it's not hasn't historically been easy but now with the again the double-edged sword nature of these ai tools it's easier than ever if you have the agency and the ability to just prompt your your clanker to say hey figure out everything on this network that you're on and let's find out where the holes are and begin clogging them and cutting them off completely so uh particularly important if you're going to run your own you know server and own your own data at home to lock this stuff down ahead of time yeah um what was i going to say i was going to say something oh this is only the beginning expect this stuff to accelerate uh

48:27 i mean and i we were calling it out many people in bitcoin were calling out it would be remiss of us not to mention that this has been a pretty popular take within Bitcoin since late July, early August. Bitcoin was the canary in the coal mine with the gold card hack, all the lightning infrastructure bolts, the red team finding over 1,200 critical vulnerabilities in the software running this industry and responsibly disclosing as much as possible and hopefully patching as much as possible as well. All this happened for us in late July, August September and all and while that all was going down we were all saying this is it sucks for Bitcoiners uh it still sucks to this day but uh everybody who's laughing at us is is going to see

49:16 it's coming for them too and here's what we have this week with the PHP vulnerability and others it's coming for everybody it's going to be okay you know Bitcoin hardened pretty quickly hopefully we're out of the woods we're not out of the woods yet might never be um but you know i i try to stay a little bit more optimistic and you can't just sit there wringing your hands um waiting for something bad to happen you got to get proactive and you got to protect your you know mental state um i think bitcoiners on the whole did a pretty good job with that um i think rob is looking a lot calmer uh the last time i saw him on monday than he was a couple weeks ago yeah that's It's good to hear.

50:00 That's good to hear. We'll see what comes out of Logano. Everybody take a five-second deep breath. We're going to get all the fear-mongering out of us. We're going to get all the dooming out of us. One other variable that we didn't throw into the mix here is that economic decline in a recession is on the horizon because the AI trade isn't panning out.

50:22 We've got revenues flattening out. We've got companies going into negative cash flow. flow. It was a big thing. Amazon board meeting, I guess, leaked or an executive meeting leaked in which the CFO was pointing up the head of AI and saying, hey, you took our cash flow negative this quarter. There was a lot of hoopla about financial disclosures from Anthropic. Everybody pointing at an $80 billion loss on their balance sheet this year. It's a nuanced take. We'll get to it.

50:50 But overall, while all this is going on, the tenor in the air for the last 12 to 18 months is the fiscal situation's out of whack. Inflation's high, but don't worry. We're going to grow our way out of it with this productivity miracle provided by the AI industrial buildout and the tech stack that will come with it.

51:13 And it looks like it's slowing down and people are freaking out. Markets crashing today. combination of the AI nudes and the security issues that we're dealing with this week. But many people think the AI trade's over. Yeah, a lot of people said some really stupid shit about money. We're not going to have to work.

51:36 You can kind of just sit there and you're going to get dividends from NVIDIA, Anthropic and SpaceX. You're going to be a feudal slop slave. You're going to get your... I mean, you want to hear the conspiracy theory of the week, right? You had Brad Gerstner and Trump coming out this week and saying, we're gonna make Trump accounts for everybody in America under 40.

51:54 You have, you have the, I believe they're just moving the. Elder millennials lose again. Nobody been picked on more than us But they just saying like Hey we we to increase the age the age the minimum age for getting a Trump account We're going to give you all these stocks. But that, I mean, in tying that, I think we both quote tweeted the same tweet where it's like, hey, we're not going to have to worry.

52:16 You're going to make $12,000 a month from these dividends from NVIDIA, Anthropic, OpenAI, SpaceX, whoever else is willing to share some of their profits with the feudal slop slaves of the future. loaf of bread is going to be $1,500. It makes no sense. But billionaire Arthur Hayes came out and said, as this collapses, people are going to flee.

52:41 Bitcoin is going to hit a million dollars or something like that. I'm paraphrasing. But I always enjoy when they have to say it's billionaire Arthur Hayes says that Bitcoin is going to a million dollars. I think Arthur Hayes has lost his ways a little bit. You know, he's a little crazy. He just says stuff.

52:58 his calls haven't been that great over the last couple years I will just say that well he liked Hyperliquid a lot but I think he dumped it on people pretty hard that was a good call he probably bought it back he's a fantastic trader that's for sure but going back to the Trump accounts that is the idea if you want to round about digital ID that's another thing like WorldCoin apparently signing deals with Zoom and a bunch of other large corporations to prove that you have a human on the call with you.

53:34 So that's progressing. Sam Altman's beginning to market that more heavily. So you have that coming in with the Trump accounts. Some of the theories are this is the way you get like a control economy. It's like you give everybody their rations of the publicly traded companies. You tokenize them. They can be quick swap for stable coins, whatever you so deem.

53:54 but you can easily envision a future if that becomes the status quo and the way in which people get their gibs and their dividends, their AI dividend, super intelligence dividends, and you have all this surveillance state architecture erected around them. If you say something bad, hey, you don't get your Nvidia stock this month.

54:20 Okay? You're not getting it. You're not getting it. You were a bad feudal slap slave this month. Your slap was going against the narrative. No NVIDIA for you this month. That's not great, Bob. You ready? Not great, Bob. You ready to hold up your hand to Jensen? More. More shares, please, sir. Just give me part of the share.

54:47 I don't want to speak ill of Jensen. I feel like he's the only one that has any integrity. I know. at the moment but um yeah it's some pretty dark stuff um everybody's talking about inflation like a good thing and uh there's abundance and ubi um andrew yang loves this shit it's all elon loves this shit it's yeah it's nonsensical there's no such i mean matt was really beating the strome uh early this summer which is like there's no such thing as high universal income if everybody has the same high income yeah cost of real scarce goods just goes up um that that's a movable floor yeah but to wade through to take the conspiracy hat on put on the objective analytical hat i think focusing on the anthropic news of this week shout out to jack farley from monetary

55:42 matters uh he had a good explanation of the 80 billion dollar um hole on their balance sheet i it was like something like 76 billion of that was a convertible note that converted from debt to equity so they had to mark that um that accounting of that conversion from debt to equity on their books and it's booked as a loss but really at the end of the day it's just a line item yeah yeah but many people were looking at it like oh that's gonna be recurring recurring cost in the business moving forward and for being objective we all know that i'm not like the biggest fans of dario and anthropic and their world views internally but if we're putting an analytical objective lens on this it's uh being overblown by the ads that trends in the world i think

56:31 what did trump say he had he had some like quip about like dario had to say nice things if he wants that bailout he's gonna need or something you know i'm talking about during the press conference when everybody was there it's like well if you want that bailout come over here and say some some nice things about our lunch yeah he's like the lunch was good lunch was good yeah like the bug the bug man and um men in black yeah the uh that's a great analogy actually but yeah no i mean when it comes to the ai trade it was like a lot of confusing headlines this week the same way you get spacex come out with their q3 financials and they overshot projections pretty expectations pretty dramatically to the upside.

57:13 You think we see that merger Tesla and SpaceX Yeah I saw I think it inevitable i don think he gonna come out and say it he gonna grease the wheels and get everything set up to to make it happen but one comment i think uh that based jeff beff jesus a guy um yeah he had an interesting observation which is like if you look at like the last three models of tesla's that have been debuted and what would you say?

57:44 Demoed, I guess, during the presentations, like the flying ones from last week. They don't have Tesla brand markets. They're just plain. There's no Tesla brand on the cars. I did not see that. That would be a 3.7 trillion dollar combined deal um gotta execute that before trump leaves office if it's going to happen that's kind of like a two-year expiry on it yeah so yeah i would not be shocked if that happens in 2027 that's one of my predictions there and then staying on the ai trade again being objective looking at the data ramp surprisingly enough ramp the uh financial company as neobank um working with a lot of startups they have an incredible like ai data team. They came out with a report this week, uh, that shows that 80% of business AI spending

58:41 comes from 1% of the firms. Um, and so like that, and that would signal that this circular sort of circle jerk of VC funded finance to be a NVIDIA, just sloshing the funds around each other. It would show that there is at least some validity to the claim that that's happening. Chamath, props where props are due. I know we're going to shit on him in a little bit here, but he, I mean, he came out and said like SAS had the same problem in the beginning when it was emerging in the early 2010s, mid 2010s. And really what it is, is a, is a revenue quality problem.

59:18 You need to find the consumers outside of the other large AI companies who are going to pay for this. I'm one of those consumers. I will pay for it. I'm already paying quite a bit. I pay for everything. Yeah. Speaking of Chamath, Bitcoin's going to zero. It's only a matter of time before AI or quantum computers crack Bitcoin and the community cannot coordinate a fix. A shot at the core developers. Chamath sold his coins for a Lake Tahoe property. What year was that? That was like a while ago right 15 it was like 2016 or something like that yeah around then yeah um so the guy who effectively sells the bottom um says everybody else is wrong um in the wake of the php uh uh shockwaves it's pretty cool and then he shields he's like a light z z cash shell at the

1:00:16 end too yeah he likes that one i mean they're all pushing z cash yeah there's like a little mafia inside of Silicon Valley. I've actually good insight into this. I know people who have seen what's happening behind this. I mean, it's an overt attempt by the Silicon Valley mafia to pump Zcash. It's encrypted Bitcoin.

1:00:37 But to this point, Logan, pull up Dan Boneh, who is one of the top five cryptographers alive today, according to this tweet from Felipe Montal. a Montel, Montiel, Agra Montalegra. Um, yes, we should talk about, we will talk about that. Um, but look and play the clip first to combat, uh, Chema saying that this will never happen.

1:01:06 Here's what one of the top five cartographers in the world is saying on the, uh, the marathon, uh, podcast with, uh, Isabel Fox, uh, uh, Duke. Yeah. Are you optimistic that Bitcoin will solve it? Why or why not? I am totally optimistic that Bitcoin will solve it. That is, it's insane to say that Bitcoin will not solve the quantum problem.

1:01:29 It is? That's how you feel? That is insane. Of course, Bitcoin will survive it. And of course, Bitcoin will solve it. Okay. So that goes without saying. What gives you that confidence? What do you want to communicate about? We know where to go. We need to move to, you know, post-quantum addresses, post-quantum signatures.

1:01:45 We know where to go. The only, you know, everything we've been discussing in this podcast is really just kind of technical nuances of exactly what should you do. But the big picture is very well known. We know what to do. So anyone who is worried that quantum is going to affect the security of blockchains is wrong.

1:02:07 Overly paranoid, basically, or just. The post-quantum technology exists. You know, we have many, I guess, it's actually the fact that we're even having this conversation says we have many solutions and we're just debating which path to take in order to solve the problem. But there are definitely, this will get solved and the blockchains will survive.

1:02:27 Do you have a, are you, are you. yeah i mean this whole debate is extremely frustrating i brought it up on this show i brought it up in tftc many times throughout this last i mean this this debate started really around this time last year like november december of last year and it's frustrating because bitcoin developers have known that this is possible satoshi was talking about in the early days and as we know like block stream research has been working on this and there's a ton of grants out there for cryptographers to do research on um the the signature that best suits bitcoin in a post quantum world and it's like is quantum around the corner i'm skeptical who knows but to think if the specter of quantum computing coming and cracking bitcoin private keys was imminent like it became

1:03:16 very clear that like okay we're like three months six months a year away from this happening to think that bitcoiners would just be like okay like it was abundantly clear it's like okay this is a threat that's coming and to think that bitcoiners couldn't coordinate to to fix that i think it's completely naive yeah these concerns predate bitcoin i think in the 90s on a lot of these you know email the serves and and chats this was this was brought up as a academic exercise for a future issue if one of these things was actually going to be implemented in an efficient effective way um there are red herring issues that tie people in knots there are some other practical issues that are pretty complicated migrating to quantum resistant wallets what happens with

1:04:04 satoshi's coins how is that handled at what level do we handle that there are arguments or you know items that need to be fleshed out. It's a timing question and it's a trade-off. You don't want to mess with it until it's really time to get it right. And you don't know when that time is going to be. So I agree in sentiment with that.

1:04:31 But I think it is a little bit hand-wavy with some real-world anxieties around the issue. But maybe I'm overthinking it. I mean, I was talking to somebody I won't dox them earlier this year. I'm vehemently against doing anything with Satoshi's coins because who's to say that Satoshi isn't waiting for Bitcoin to get to like a $10 trillion market cap and then wants to become like either a philanthropist or use that wealth to do good.

1:05:00 Because you have to imagine if we get to a 10, 20, 30, 50, $100 trillion market cap, Satoshi's a trillionaire. He'll probably be able to afford security and pay off people that would otherwise like to see him dead. Give me a second. I'm looking for another Nick Carter tweet that covers this. Or maybe it was a podcast that he was on. It's not really going to matter if Satoshi's coins are the canary in the coal mine.

1:05:34 You kind of have to sort that issue out ahead of time because once they get moved in any capacity, that's going to really rile the network. So I think figuring out how they're to be treated is an unfortunately big part of this conversation, whether that's a real issue or a red herring issue. I don't know.

1:05:58 Do you know what tweet or conversation I'm referencing with him? This was in the last day or two, but he tweets so fucking much. I can't find it right now under pressure. The, um, I mean, the, cause it's estimated what he has a million coins. I think Alex Thorne did some research on this, particularly at like the, the like wick down below 60 earlier this year.

1:06:23 I think the market absorbed something like 800,000 coins in the course of two or three months. Like, so, so the whole notion that Bitcoin's million dollar stash is going to send Bitcoin to zero, somebody cracks it. If they move and like, oh my God, Satoshi's coins can move. Number one, who's to say it's not Satoshi himself saying, hey, no, I actually want to move this secure to a secure address structure because I do plan on spending this.

1:06:46 And then number two, even if it is a nefarious actor who plans to market down, we've proven that we can absorb that volume pretty handedly. I mean, yeah, it would result in some price decline, but it's not catastrophic um yeah i'm not sure i fully subscribe to that yeah too much of a uh of a doomer push back you don't have to agree we don't have to agree on this show i think it would be pretty bad i think it would shake the confidence in the system pretty aggressively and i think you know talking about this as a known issue and not necessarily dealing dealing with it and then having that rugged.

1:07:30 Again, it's been the canary in the coal mine. It's been one of the biggest bounties and an open source protocol, biggest bounties in the world. Come and take it come and prove that you know there are vulnerabilities or uh exploits where you can shake the confidence from a technical level the knock effect from to like an economic and also a social political level and the confidence in bitcoin would be would be pretty close to we're running i'm running under the assumption that like quantum's here we know it's here we're preparing for it or it's imminent three six months we make the transition like it would be i think it would be more catastrophic if it truly was a quantum alarm bell everybody's like oh it's not

1:08:13 coming and then like boom satoshi's coins moved because somebody cracked them using a quantum scheme and that was basically that was like the alarm bell is like okay quantum's here now we're all vulnerable yes that would be catastrophic but in the case of like we're preparing we have time a quantum resistant uh signature scheme is made available to users users begin transitioning to addresses created with that scheme um and then satoshi's coins move later like i'm totally fine with that i don't think that's as catastrophic as you're describing yeah look and i'm mindful of the history here i'm mindful of um nick's uh investments in this area and his comments on it but i think that they're dismissed a little bit too quickly within you know a certain

1:09:10 segment of the bitcoin ecosystem um it would be it would be bad think about how mainstream media would run with this what would be the mainstream media has been on bitcoin its whole existence like who cares like it has an effect it has an effect on the markets it has an effect on the psyche and the confidence of bitcoiners that are out there you know they have thanks get another unpleasant thanksgiving dinner with your family that just wants to on the thing you're into we've all been there yeah but like again you can't freeze satoshi's coins or create what do they want like the uh to put them back in the back end of the supply schedule like i'm not saying they're a good options i'm not saying i know how i would necessarily deal with that i think peter todd has

1:09:55 made some comments on this he wants uh some persistent or like fixed rate of inflation at some point that's completely different no he he mentioned this in relation to satoshi's coins in moving to quantum resistance resistant addresses at some point i'd have to dig that one up too i think satoshi is like just waiting he's waiting for 100 trillion dollar market cap is going to come and he's gonna be like the the benevolent genius from ready ready player uh ready player go right player go is that it ready player one ready player one yeah maybe he's uh the second coming and you know the antichrist will be here and it's just like i have a million bitcoin and i'm here to defeat the who knows hey i mean i've i've always left the the rebel possibility uh that that

1:10:45 I've left the possibility that Bitcoin is a form of divine intervention. Shout out to Makeda for finding the Venture Coinus podcast with Nick. Because I was having trouble finding it. Solid guy that Makeda. Are you pulling it up? I sent it to the chat. we have something to talk about uh after that logan did you get it you pulling it up logan are you there i don't know if you want to play the clip or not um but this is this is the podcast where he he dives into some of the issues with just fixing it i i don't think it's that whatever i already said my piece i don't think it's that simple but beyond that the really contentious thing is of course the fate of the coins that can't migrate right yes and jameson

1:11:48 lopp has this new paper he published he estimates that it's two and a half million coins or cannot migrate no matter what probably won't cannot or probably won't as in they're lost or as in presumed lost haven't moved and they're also exposed okay so 10 of the supply becomes vulnerable walk me through the worst case scenario what does that mean the worst case is someone that is not a friendly sure secretly recovers all those coins and then in the space of 10 blocks broadcast transactions spending all of those coins to their own address so it happens very quickly then bitcoin is thrown into chaos because people started they see this right oh the Satoshi coins all moved, right?

1:12:31 All happens at once, by the way, because you can quantumly recover those private keys and not broadcast the transaction, right? So everybody sees this happening. Some people are selling. Some people are telling the devs, we have to hard fork. We have to invalidate those. But nobody knows which are the valid spends and which are the invalid spends Hold on This is assuming that we haven forked before this or are you saying that this scenario we might have forked is inevitable this is even if we solve it this is everything goes right we fork everyone rotates their keys price goes up good catalyst we've protected ourselves from from the quantum risk this is these coins are always at risk no matter

1:13:12 what yeah yeah even if everybody else is migrated some coins will necessarily be unmigrated the question is what happens? How do those coins get recovered? What's the nature of that? And the worst case is it's an unknown entity, potentially malicious, recovers them, spends them all at once, recovers two and a half million. I don't think it'll play out like that, but that would be the worst case. Speed of the attack, SAS per V byte, super low. There is a world where that could come to pass and it would be pretty bad.

1:13:48 Not great, Bob. I don't know. Like, Mersh Popescu had reportedly a million Bitcoin at one point and he was wanting to be a warlord very publicly. Would be considered a nefarious actor by many governments. Yeah. Rest in power, King. I hope you're out there. the uh yeah i'm not i'm not as worried about it especially like considering if you already hard fork and you have the signature schemes like that should be if anything that creates the incentive to bring quantum computing and like hopefully people are competing and i don't know i'm not as worried about it maybe i'm wrong but like again we've absorbed who has who has the quantum computer what's the best and the worst case scenario yeah who's going to have the quantum computer is it

1:14:40 going to be north korea do you think north korea is going to discover the quantum computer first you think it's gonna be china google china yeah sure like who has it who's the best case and the worst case scenario for somebody that has this computer and just wipes it do we need tether working on this and and hope that tether does the right thing on behalf of bitcoiners and just warehouses and there's a safeguard for these things who's going to be the biggest one strategy black rock what if it's like a white hat that gets it first and then they just burn the coins that would be they're not going to have access to that technology before the government or these corporate quasi-governmental entities yeah i guess that begs the question who's i mean

1:15:23 it's probably between the china or u.s and then you go through the decision tree like okay if the u.s government or some private company closely associated with the intelligence apparatus finds it like the u.s government gets 2.1 million bitcoin the strategic reserves already calling for a million what if they double that um is that bad chinese government straight to the trump accounts straight to the trump accounts baby we're making american citizens get a dividend yeah let's go because it was all it was it was national i think you just i think you have to leave them alone um no there's no good solution here i've heard a couple kicked around um i don't have them off the top of my head i didn't think that we were the last time and i feel terrible

1:16:12 about this there was a a kid in the back of a coinbase like two or three ago and at the very end we were doing q a and he asked a question about quantum and arbed out alex thorne and myself all sort of like groaned and it's like we're not dealing with this again um so i would have to um shake some rust off to actually get into some of the proposals that are out there there have been a couple of proposals that kick around this specific issue and i haven't heard anything super compelling and people are really split on how to handle lost or whatever coins that uh nick is talking about there the two and a half million yeah i mean there was one proposal that was like you throttle the amount of pay to pub key inputs that are allowed to be included in one

1:16:59 block um and so you try to basically create a sort of restricted amount of bitcoin from the original address structure to legacy address structure that can be included in one block running with the assumption that quantum hacked them and the hacker is uh trying to move the coins and if you can uh because that's the other thing too like when people talk about satoshi's million bitcoin being hacked they all assume like oh um you get one wallet and you get you get a million bitcoin it's it's a bunch of different addresses with 50 bitcoin in them i'm pretty sure so that's it you'd have to crack a bunch of these these wallets but quantum maybe makes that trivial um so yeah economics of warfare yeah not fun bob i don't

1:17:52 I don't think you touch them. I'm going to stand by that. I don't think you touch them. I'm not advocating for touching them. I'm just pointing out it's a huge academic issue right now. And maybe this is just like fusion I mean the fusion that another thing like objectively everybody like gold screwed yeah because they proved you can uh do you know how much an ounce of mercury is no not off the top of my head it's very expensive i think it's something like forty thousand dollars or something like that so like the and maybe you can do with other cheaper metals or goods but like to uh use fusion to produce gold at scale with mercury i don't think the economics makes sense hit the burst of bubble of everybody

1:18:36 and who knows with fusion apparently there's it's been right around the corner and we've been this close before so pretty hard segue to talking about how young women are getting psyoped as hard as possible by other women yeah my old co-worker alex cooper okay let's go there do you have the clip me oh you want me to find the clip the clip what's the show call her daddy call her daddy call her daddy here logan here's the clip pull it up this is like the biggest psychological operation in the world no it's not the biggest but it's like one of the the more insidious psyops in the world is this show we can get really really in our heads about oh my god i feel like i'm yes maybe i shouldn't leave this marriage because can i even get better and the answer is yes the answer is always yes and

1:19:44 this idea it's like talking to claude it's too late or you're too old or who are you to want more that's patriarchy that is crazy we don't need it we can get this is literally like talking to the clankers because they're so sycophantic like yes queen yes you deserve better leave your husband no you're not crazy you're thinking about it in a totally logical way it's like thanks computer i am going deeper into my narcissistic personality your your your husband's at work he's he's roofing all day and you're sitting there listening to color daddy's thinking i do better yeah he's he's at work laying down tar saying ah it's hot out here my back hurts but you know what i've got a family to to support yeah filling work

1:20:32 yeah we don't make much but it's enough so we have dinner on the table we have a conversation we can gather our hands in prayer and push forward and you have alex cooper out there like queen leave you can do better do you ever come home a little bit testy after you know slaving on the podcast you know deep in the deep in the data mines say i'm tired i don't want this do you see similar no my wife uh my wife does not like alex cooper i'm kidding um but there are millions of women out there who are marinating in this uh this filth it doesn't start with that look at the view look at oprah uh this has always been a goal of daytime television and other talk shows to prey on um anxieties or feelings of um inadequate relationships and you know one's place in the world

1:21:34 um i do think that this demographic with every everything that's going on i think young women are getting an onslaught same as young men um and how they're portrayed uh or their their position their status is portrayed um amongst not just mainstream media but podcasters that are getting a lot of money from barry weiss or wherever call her daddy gets their money from spotify now um there we go get that back um yeah this is completely misunderstanding what marriage is about this conversation i mean sophia bush is on her third marriage the first one lasted five months the second one lasted 13 months so i don't think she's a great person to be giving marriage advice it's very self-centered the conversation these two women are having which is like i can do better i

1:22:17 I can do better. When you get married, it's till death do you part for sick or for, through sick and through poor. And once you get married, you're supposed to like your souls, at least in the Catholic church, you merge as one and you become bigger than yourself. It's about the family. It's about your children. It's about legacy. And it's a very self-centered conversation out there. You can do better. I deserve better. It's not about you. Once you decide to put the ring on your finger and join souls with your, with your partner, it's about the hole there it's like trying on a pair of pants you know you got to try it off you to find your forever pants it's not a big deal yeah it's just another marriage do you think people brought

1:23:00 a gift for the third marriage what's the rule you know you don't bring a gift that's a waste of money you don't even go the third marriage should be in a courthouse we're in vegas and you go to dinner your friends like we got married they're like oh gosh you sure you sure you want to do that I've got a call here in 15 minutes, so we've got to blast through this.

1:23:29 What's left? I mean, if you're running open code or light LLM, which I know a lot of Vibe coders are, they got exploited too. If you have API keys in those, if you're living under a rock and haven't heard yet, you need to switch out your keys if you're using them with those softwares. Uh, we have more KYC stuff this time.

1:23:56 Like cash app, uh, is in the story for a four media reported on it, but apparently a woman, uh, is like going through a court case, going through a trial. She's being, uh, I don't know the exact details, but long story short is the, the government is coming after her for doing illegal things via cash app.

1:24:15 But she's saying that she never started a cash app account. stole her personal identifying information on the dark web and created an account uh a cash app account in her name and did illegal stuff uh via that account and she's trying to like prove that she did it but the way kyc aml walls are constructed like cash app technically cannot like recognize her as the the actual person and will not shut down the account or something like that. Um, so it just highlights the negative externalities of this KYC, AML regime. And now in the age of AI, like this week, I'm sure if your personal identifying information somehow by some miracle over the course of the last 20 years, didn't find its way to, um,

1:25:04 to the hands of the dark market hackers. Uh, it's probably certainly has this week and like none of these, None of these things are secures. I mean, there were reports this morning that a number of the largest commercial banks have agents forms running through them, trying to steal money from people's accounts.

1:25:24 Like it's, it's bad out there. BlackRock P bit which is coming out This is a new ETF a Bitcoin ETF which will have downside protection with limited upside as well So you can have a risk Bitcoin exposure It's just an ETF with a collar. Yeah. That's coming out. It's fine. Some people will use it. JP Morgan coming out after Jamie Dimon shit on Bitcoin for well over 15 years saying that, hey, we think it's going to be the best performing asset.

1:25:59 conservatively believe there's going to be a 10% annual return between now and the end of the decade. And they recommend a material allocation. At least they are recommended. I think they said stocks at 7.5% as opposed to the 10% annualized appreciation of Bitcoin. Pretty cool. Kind of an unbelievable reversal. Where do you think that that's actually coming from for them to put out that guidance?

1:26:25 all right it's undeniable i think like uh i don't know i think maybe maybe they're a well-run company and it's not like a dictatorship of jamie diamond just saying everything they have teams of competent researchers and analysts that um that are paid handsomely well to to do the work and make objective decisions and i wouldn't be surprised if that's the case you know there's some coiners there's coiners everywhere brother we know that um i think that we covered most of the substantive stuff do you want to um close out with some ducks some robot ducks i put it in yeah before we close out with robot ducks um i think related to the quantum conversation that we had earlier but the justin drake and

1:27:17 And others sounded the alarm bell about just AI breaking ECDSA pretty trivially. Um, they, they were telling people to move coins and, uh, try to try to make sure that they didn't have public addresses exposed. Anthropic came out with a paper last week. Uh, they, they, uh, pointed their, their strongest, I think unreleased models at, uh, EC, the elliptic curves that in ECDSA specifically and found that it's actually pre-zoned.

1:27:47 Um to be clear LibSec P 256 K1 uh is a bit of a fork of ECDSA is Bitcoin specific But I think after all that fear mongering for Anthropic to come out be like, we actually did pen test this pretty aggressively. And it's actually a pretty legit curve. It was interesting. Serial killer says it's not going to kill anymore.

1:28:13 Yeah. And did you see what they're doing to me? Did you see they came out with a little mini documentary? I'm in my grave. And no, there was some escorts in D.C. saying that I had sexual intercourse with them. And that they met my ladybugs. And I'm in my grave. And they're trying to besmirch my good name.

1:28:38 Running through the mud. All right, bring up those ducks. They're so cute. I love that they're doing this. Can you guys sit down? Okay, stand up. Take a nap. Take a nap. You need to take a nap. Okay, stand up. Did you know that you were created in here? You were created on RTX Spark. I know. And trained you in the cloud on a whole bunch of NVIDIA supercomputers.

1:29:25 And you learned your skills right here on RTX Spark in a digital twin, the Omniverse digital twin. Isn't that incredible? I know. I know. Pretty fucking cute. You guys are so cute. and and uh your your uh your parents are called pollen p-o-l-l-e-n is that right uh-huh pollen robotics and apparently everybody loves you guys so much you're sold out i know so if you go to the pollen website everybody everybody watching this you know there gonna be like 20 million viewers everybody watching this go to the pollen website and place in order That what we call in the biz a native mid ad there how much pollen does this guy own no my mind immediately goes to all right little duck i need you to take that backpack as far into the kremlin as you can yeah

1:30:22 get in there the same one with the robot olympics in china you just see them doing these spectacular things it's like okay take this gun march for the next 200 miles Whatever. All right. What else? Anything else we should cover here? We got the ducks. Tonight, we got my first Bitcoin coming in. John and Trey are coming into PubKey.

1:30:54 That's at 6 o'clock in New York City, PubKey. We got a ton of stuff coming up in D.C., so check the channels to make sure. Last night we had David Morris had a conversation live at PubKeyNYC with Roman Storm. Oh, nice. How was that? That was off the record, so it wasn't recorded. We had a good crew, and they had a long conversation.

1:31:21 How was it, Jonathan? I actually wasn't there for it. Jonathan says it was awesome. good thought yeah so it's um david morris is producing a documentary um about um roman's uh trials and travails um so this was a a teaser leading up to that okay that's free roman storm he's in retrial right now yep free kione and bill as well let's go have a good weekend you know what it's crazy out there might want to shout out to the other roman too so i'm going to start enough you guys might want to stay off trains any any cars with computers in them airplanes uh train like subway systems uh and check your tvs nothing ever happens it's going to be fine okay nothing ever happens chad it's a beautiful fall weekend enjoy the weekend peace and love