Karamo Speaks: Is he Dating Jussie Smollett?

Reality with the King is hosted by me, Carlos King. I'm an executive producer who have produced some of your favorite shows from the Real Housewives in Atlanta, New Jersey and my own creation, The Love and Marriage Franchise and Bell Collective. Every episode, we recap reality television from the Real Housewives Franchise to The Bachelor or Selling Sunset. In addition to celebrity guests, whether in the unscripted space or scripted as well. Rain drops on today's episode of Reality with the King. Look, he is not only my friend, he's one of my faves. He also has been one of my most requested interviews. We've been trying to do this since I started my podcast in twenty twenty three, but God's timing is always perfect. Please give it up

for the iconic. He goes by one name only, Karama. You ain't gonna come Beyonce, Janet, Brittany Shaka Aria.

In there.

You look good. I listen the rain jobs. I have to know he is like one of my good Judy's good friends. And I have to say thank you for saying yes. Finally, bitch, I said yes.

It's always been scheduling and what I tell you for the interview, I said, there's nothing off limits. You can ask me anything, you know. I'm open book with you, baby, you are. You ain't know what the skeletons buried. I can't even lie about it if I wanted to.

But you don't listen. The thing about you and this, you are an open book. And I think that's the reason why none of this to me is a surprise, because I never said this publicly, because I've been waiting for the moment to give your flowers publicly. I do it privately because he and I always are texting and dming and all those things. But as we celebrate pride, I'm not here to celebrate you just being, you know, a gay activist, an ubly gay black man, the first ever to come out on reality television. You are icon for sure. And it's not something I'm saying loosely. It's because you are genuinely a good person. You have never changed, you have never switched up. And the thing that I want to say to people when I was casting for

the next fifteen, you don't know this.

You know. You told me you had a story and I was like, what story is this? I don't know.

It wasn't supposed to be a co ed show.

It wasn't.

The network was toying with the idea, do you want to make it like Hollywood Divas, which was my successful show on TV one all women. Do you want to make it about women or do you want to make a co ed And I said, I don't know, let me just start casting. You are the reason why we made the show co ed.

Did not know that because.

When I was auditioning people, you know that we met because I listen. They don't know this. I did the casting myself.

You did.

It wasn't like somebody was there interviewing you. It was me and not only were you early. I do stay on time like he was today. I do stay on time like I'm five minutes away. He's like, that's okay, I'm in the lobby. I'm like, this bitch was always earlier. You were early. You were the consummate professional, and I was so impressed by you. And I remember you leaving the interview and I called the network and I said, we have to make the show co ed because I said I have to cast time.

I did not know that you are a star to me that hold on, but I told you earlier. So first of all, thank you for telling me that story. And it goes to what I was not to give your flowers publicly because the way you put us as black folks on in front of the camera, behind the camera, people out there, y'all need to understand how hard this is for people of color. And this man consistently puts people on and y'all might want to attack, but y'all don't realize this a network people above that do this stupid stuff. This man is always protecting us, always putting us on, always caring for us. And that next fifteen I was trying to break in after being on the real world. This is years later, and I needed something

that was going to make me put me in a position where people saw me back as a household name, saw me as somebody with value. And I couldn't find that opportunity because everyone was still this is the time when like, you know, we both get black. They was like mm hmm, no, no, no, no, no, you definitely you might come on as a friend, you might come on here, but you're not gonna be leading anything.

You're not You're not on the poster.

You're not on the poster. You are not on the poster, and Carlos said, you're on the poster, and I'm gonna put you next to these women who are iconic. Man Benzino was there too, these people who have large careers, and I was so thankful that another gay black man put me on and I told you, I said, I'm gonna do whatever you want. You tell me, you tell me what you want better, I'm gonna show up. I'm but I just had to give you that Flowers because that was really the catalyst for me having a name to walk in the rooms that right there was the one where people were like, oh I saw you on a carpet, were Claudia Jordan, Oh oh I saw you're with that guy who started that magazine, Benzino. It just all of a sudden put me in conversations that I

wasn't in before. And that's solely because of you.

Thank you for that, Thank you for that. No, the thing for me has always been, you can't be in this position and not open doors for people who look like you. And when it comes to the reality genre, it listen, the sort of surrounding narrative is mess, mess, mess, mess, mess, and we don't talk enough about the opportunity and the way the doors open enough for you, which is why all of your success is not a surprise to me.

But I do want to start back early, explain to us, like who was Caramo Brown? As a young black kid growing up.

I think the things I was a bit about the dichotomy. I was pretty insecure because I grew up in a household, a Caribbean household. My parents aren't from this country. My family's Jamaican Cuban, where I was consistently bombarded with with with comments that I was less than because of my sexuality, because you know, I told everyone that I was gay when I was fifteen, and so people don't realize that that was what year that was though, because this is nineteen ninety five. So y'all gonnaderstand growing nineteen ninety five, I'm walking through here like this is who I am.

And it was constant, you know, berating, constant this, you're not that, You're not that, and it broke me. But on the flip side, even though it was breaking me, and when I was alone, I would be like, I'm hurting, this is so bad. In public at school, I was a shit. I ain't give a fuck, what tell me something?

And so I had this like broken but fearless thing that was happening consistently, like I feel fearless, I'm gonna do it because if I can stand up to my father who was playing you know, Bojo bonton at this time, boom bye and bye and a box, you know, like you're fifteen years old, and they're like you, like, oh okay, dad, you know you know. And so I was fearless but also broken, and that little boy just said he's gonna do whatever he can to make sure that no one else feels broken. And that was literally the catalyst. It was like the catalyst for why do everything that I do?

Is that I said, I'm not no one else is going to be broken.

Do you remember the first time you knew like, okay, I'm gay?

Yes?

When was it?

I saw Samar Morris fine ass that whatever.

That not our look, not our mutuals friends X.

Oh listen, I've heard the story about Samar.

Girl, our mutual our mutual girlfriend that dated.

Hell, yes, but I'll tell you that man in the nineties, I mean everything, and I just said, oh, that's this is the option maybe that I want that that's there's options and yeah, but you know, in reality, I kind of knew before then, Like there's always whispers for us as kids from adults. And this is the thing that sometimes I try to tell people as a father. You know, people always want to say that gay people are sexualizing children.

They make that as some narrative to dig at us, but the truth is that we're not. Every story I have of someone over sexualizing me or sexualizing me before I was ready was from from strade people, all the girls in my life, women in my lifetime, about that's your girlfriend. You don't want to give her a kiss, you don't want to hold dud I'm three, I'm four, I'm five. I haven't even thought of that. And it was, oh, this is my little man, this is my boyfriend, this is my husband. Oh come here, oh baby, if you was older, those are the comments that I received, And it made me immediately realize first of all that like, oh, I'm supposed to be sexual and you know, like this is required of me as a man, Like I'm supposed

to put on this presence of this. But then at the same flip side, I was like, you call me your boyfriend. I don't like that. Like, not just because you're older, but also because let your husband call me that, and so you know that was that was when I really realized.

Yeah, and it's funny you say that too, because one thing that I find so disturbing and odd people think there's this gay agenda. And what is so interesting is because you see two men kissing in front of the cameras and stuff, it doesn't make anyone gay. We grew watching nothing, but it did nothing for me. Nothing nothing for me, And that that's what's so fascinating about me.

Like I knew that. I knew when I was a little kid, but it wasn't until I watched Ello COOJS on bad Video. Yeah, I was like, oh huh, Jenna Jackson, I find iconic. You know what I mean?

I find her iconic. I want to I want to do dance, but baby, I'm not. I don't want to do it.

I want to. I'm into this.

And that was makes so much sense now the people you date, this, this takes so much sense now when we look at Okay, okay, now I know where this came from. My take when I tell y'all, one day I'm gonna do the Carlos King exclusive, because actually, oh, I'm gonna do the Carlos King exclusive. I'm gonna sit down and let you tell your tea one day, because baby, you you got all the tea, baby, and you also have a life story that people need to hear. I actually do, and I look you do, I will give it to you. Yeah, we're gonna sit down in miss story.

We're gonna.

But you obviously had a child, which means you you slept with the woman. So talk to us about that decision and were you trying to just see if this is what I want because I can't get interaction with the woman. So the fact that you've proceeded to do that.

Well, it was only because I was fifteen and so like you know, the wind cablow and she was ready, okay, like the wind could just someone can sneeze, and I was ready. Okay, it was you know, that's the Caribbean roots. Okay, But is.

It true what they say about Jamaican men.

It is everything about us, really.

Scorpio Scorpio November that.

I am a freak. I am yeah mm hmm yeah, I have no no issues.

Do you have any boundaries?

No? See, this is the thing the loving personality. I'm gonna give y'all the loving personality that sweet and want to fix stuff. I I am the exact opposite in the bedroom, you know what I mean, Like I like my partner calls me daddy. You know what I mean, and I take that to heart. Like I pay bills like I do it all. Yeah, you see it, Like.

Oh, I am the exact same way.

I'm paying the bills. I'm opening up every car door for you. I'm taking care of you, baby, like in all ways, financially, mentally, emotionally, sexually, I'm taking care of you. And that's that's how it goes.

Okay, So you have sex with one girl.

She was my best friend and she was one of the sweetest people. She's still we you know, she's in my child's life. There's not a moment that passes. But she's just an amazing girl. And we were fifteen, and we had a conversation about trying this, you know what I mean, and it literally, I promise you lasted five seconds, not even six seconds, ten seconds. I know it wasn't no more than two minutes. I know that it was very quick and in and out. And I said after that, I said, I'm not doing this again. That's not happening again.

I'm not doing it again. And it's not because I don't like I'm actually one of these gay guys that on there's the female body, like I like when my girlfriends are standing front of me and I look back and I'd be like, God, damn you fine, look at that body. I don't want to do nothing with it, but I honor it. So when I was with my son's mother, it wasn't that I was like, oh, scirls.

It just was I was like, again, this don't feel right, this don't feel right. But what that moment was was realizing that God had a greater plan for me. And it's one of the things that I always hold on to anytime I feel lost, anytimes i feel like a decision I'm making, if it's supposed to work out, I'm always like, there's some bigger plan. There's some bigger plan.

Because fatherhood, as you know, you know my son, it is the most important thing to me. I'm about to be a grandfather. It's like, really, yes, well I call myself a grand zaddy. You are a granddaddy. Congratulation, thank you. And I'm just saying the thing is that that is so important to me, fatherhood, being there for my grandchild, like I'm there for my son and his girl, and and I'm like, my son saved my life. He literally saved my life. I don't know where I'd be today if it wasn't for Jason. He he is the reason that I'm alive, that I strive to do things. He's He's my everything. And so I realized God had a bigger plan for that one moment that you know wasn't supposed to happen when you.

Got the call that she was pregnant.

What was your reaction, You mean when I got the paper work, paper work nine years later, the paperwork, the paper work. Yeah, I wasn't in his life for the first nine years.

And this is this she decided to keep it to herself.

Well, it's because I moved away. We both moved away. And so this is this is nineteen ninety five again, and like people of our generation understand, there was no cell phones, there was no social media. If someone moved and you didn't have a Mama house number or the mailing address, you weren't in contact. And so again I had already identified as gay and was letting people into my life. So at that point, I don't use the term coming out. It's been something that I've been saying for the past ten years to try to like to change the culture, and it's been working. I see people starting to say it now, but the term we are not coming out. The term is actually letting people in.

That is the actual act. And I believe that when we start to give people that language, it changes their mental health, their emotional health, because when you let come out, you're giving someone else the power to accept or deny you. But when you let someone in, you have that power. You say, I can let you in, and some people don't deserve to be let in. That whole thing that we need to make grand announcements, I don't need to make a grand announcement of none. If you're not telling me who you fucking ad fucking Christmas Dinna. I don't even tell you who I'm fucking unless I want to let you in, and there's no shame in me. I believe at one point in our community it was important to come out. Visibility was so important, and not saying

that visibility is an important now, but the pressure that we put on people to feel like they have to come out to prove that they love themselves. No, I love myself more when I'm selective about who I let in. I have the power, Like if you knock on my door and I open the door and I realize you crazy bitch, and I don't let you in, I'm not gonna be at my house and be like, oh my gosh, I didn't let bitch. No, I'm happy I didn't even come in here and destroying my shit. And I think we come out when you come out, you allow too many people in your life to start destroying your shit.

And when I look at que Latifah ooh, I love her, who I idolize in the sense of protecting her own personal life. Yes, at a time that worked for her. And the thing about it is she was never in the closet, like you said, in the sense of like not being herself, and.

When she always herself.

Always herself. And we have mutual friends who is friends with her, They call her Dana by her real name, and they all said to me, like, Dana has never been in the closet.

Never. Each time I ever had seen her, I just saw like a year ago and we were at this old house together and she came up. We were hugging and talking and I'm like, this is the woman I've always seen, just powerful and knowing herself, and she is a prime example of bitch, I'm gonna let yall in when I need to let y'all in. I'm not ashamed of who I am, and I honor her and I'm so glad you brought her up because she is the example of what I hope this next generation does when it comes to how they love themselves and how and when they decide to tell the world of who they love.

It's your power. You don't have to give it all away. You said when you god damn ready.

Could not agree more day, I could not agree more So you found out nine years later and you immediately had to fall into fatherhood. And I'm always curious because you our mutual friend, Ty Hunter. There's a lot of gay men are a who are fathers, And I've always been curious in terms of, like, what is that life like for you because you are openly gay and you are at this point you're raising a black son. Were you prepared for the job and were you did you accept that Okay, this is my life is going to be moving forward.

I think I was more prepared than most fathers. And I say this because when you grow up as a gay black boy in America, even so like me in the South, there are there's discrimination from outside of your community and within your community. You are constantly having to figure out how to protect yourself, how to continuously love yourself, how to navigate spaces. I tell people we went to church Wednesday, Sunday, Saturday, and Sunday. And imagine going into places that are supposed to be safe and full of love, and people will tell you, probably that they love you, but then be preaching against you and not protecting you.

You know. Like what hurt me the most when I was a child was the silence that aunts or people who said they loved me had when their husband would say something. I'd be like, girl, like you just told me you rock with me, and like I'm your friend, and like you love me. And then when your husband or somebody in your family is saying something derogatory that you know is not true about me, your silence cut deeper than anything. And so having those experiences and understanding what I needed from a man, what I needed from a father, what I needed from a leader, I said, once I became a father, Oh, you're getting all those things.

You're getting all those things. You're going to get a man who's going to be there twenty four to seven. You're going to get a man who's going to make sure that you are strong while also being able to be vulnerable. You're going to know that I'm going to step into spaces and I'm always going to speak up for you. I will always defend you, I will love you always. And that's that's why me and my son to this day have the best relationship because I was equipped because of my struggles to make sure that I was a great father.

Did you always know that you wanted to get in the entertainment business?

Yes? Like when did you?

Like?

When did it hit you like I want to be this?

It was watching any Tony Braxton video where she had what's the guy? What's the guy from Groove Theory? What's his name?

Bryce?

Bryce? So in my mind I thought I was as fine as Bryce. Okay, you are fine, but Bryce was fine.

Fine.

That man was fine, fine, back guy. If y'all don't know who that man is, go google him. And every time I saw him, I was like, I want to do that, and so I just I just knew I wanted to be in that. I didn't know what that was, but I knew I wanted to be in. And then I remember watching Ashton Kutcher on They used to have this thing on VH one called Fashion TV, and Ashton Kutcher had just one model of the year and part of his deals that he got to be a correspondent.

And I didn't even know what that word correspondent was, but baby, I tell you, for the rest of the year that school year, I was I'm a correspondent of corspondent, okay, baby, And I just was like, that's now I know what I want to do, which I have a mouth. I love to talk. That's what I want to do. And it was very clear and so, but that's not something I could express. My family, we again were we were an immigrant family and so my parents came here so that we went to school. And I'm also the youngest.

I have all older sisters, and all of my older sisters are the most intelligent, degreed up women. You know, my sisters got master's doctor them. Women are so intelligent that here I come the last Baby TV that ain't. That's not a career. Take your ass into school, go to school, be successful, do these things. And I'm glad I did because the experiences I had going to like fam you that's why I went undergrad Florida m University, go od ratless. We strike those relationships, the things I learned, the pride I had being a back black man, walking those those those highest of hills are invaluable. It's the way I walk in a room still to this day.

If my parents would not have said go to college, what matriculating through an HPC you did for me is I walk into every boardroom meeting knowing that I am the shit, not because I'm arrogant or ego, but because being at an HPC you taught me that black people belong in every room and that we are smart and we are amazing. And it is one of the reasons why I feel like I can have titles like the first openly gay black man on reality television, the first gay man to ever have a daytime talk show, you know what I mean? Like, these are things because I walk in a room demanding because when I was when I was at you know, at HBCU, they were like you know, this is who you are. You you you are old the world and so yeah, how.

Did you know to audition for the real world in the first place?

I didn't. You didn't know this story about all the real story. Hold by the way, before I go to HBCUs, you want a little HBCU fact What this is an HBCU real pizza tea. You know who I was friends with and went to school with, and we were on what is if you've ever been to HBCU. They had the Royal Court. That's like when we have the queens, and you know Kimberly k Michelle shut off.

Came.

Michelle and I were on the royal court together. We have known each other since then. And when I tell y'all, I just love that woman and I just see her and I'm just like so proud. And she also needs her flowers because I love Beyonce. You know, I'm a stand But that girl been yodeling, yell and putting on in the country world before anybody, any of y'all hoes, that girl was. I am country through and through.

But anyway, digress, no, no, no, we can regress now. The thing give Kimberly Michelle all her flowers, Kimbell, Kimberly, Michelle Pate. I could not agree more.

Like people you know, like, yes, she's a great personality, but that talent and what in the room she has had to go into this again, there's a common theme and this way I appreciate talking to you. People look at us and see our careers, and I could get emotional right now. They don't understand the bullshit we have to go through when we go to these production companies.

When we go to these networks, you walk in a room and if there is fifty, it is only two of us, sometimes none of us. And we are fighting for out of one hundred jobs, don't you know we it's sixty white crew members and three of us. And when I look at things like Kay Michelle, when I look at you, when I look at me, I know I'm looking past all the accomplishments. What I'm impressed by on top of that is I know what you have to do in those rooms. You know what came Tochelle had to do without knowing. I know what she had to do to be in rooms where now these young country girls are just walking through freely. I know what you had to do to get your for you to get all these shows on air. People don't realize how

difficult that is. And then to say I want to make it all black cast.

Baby.

I have been in rooms and they have said, we don't want that, straight to my face, we don't want that. What we don't want we don't we don't need enough bunch of women, whatever derogatory thing.

I had a never exact tell me a year ago. You know, look, we're just not he said this to me on some off the record type ship. I'm not gonna of course networks, but I was told that, like, we're not looking for any black ensembles, and.

They say it so clearly, like we're just And I've never heard from one of my white friends in the industry, They've never when I tell them that, people will have the audacity to say to me, we're not looking for black gay people. I'm like, have they ever said that I look for a white guy? And they're like, no, I've never heard them say we're not looking for an all white cast. And so I just I just wish people could understand and sometimes yes, we're personalities, and you know, like we're in front of the camera, we have to entertain things getting missy, things get fun, things get emotional.

But especially when you look at black talent, I wish people could look at that lens and say, damn, I know what they are going through because the things that you see. For the few of us that have a lot, there has been so many times when people told us that we shouldn't have shit.

Oh yeah, and and and and they and they still do and what's unfortunate is and we'll get to this much later, but I'm disappointed in some of the black folks on social media who want to put us down to uplift the white man, like you don't listen, you don't have to like me, like everybody. The moment we decided to become public figures is the moment we knew that, Okay, we are subjected to shade and all that, and I'm cool with that. Yes, I don't care about all that.

Don't make up allow on me. That's my thing, and don't put me down to in the same breadth of lift my white counterparts. And you get that a lot. And we'll get to that later because because we have a lot to talk about there as well.

Okay, you said, the real world, I keep derailing you no, no, no, real quickly. The reason I got in the rail world format here, there's the reason I got in the real world is because I was protesting MTV. People don't know that. I didn't know that I was protesting MTV, like publicly, publicly. So I was working for a non profit organization in South Central at the time. This after I graduated, and my kids were getting locked up because they were mimicking a show called Pimp My Ride. You remember that with exhibit So these kids were going and stealing things, small things.

They weren't This was not grand theft auto or something, but they were taking things off of cars as silly kids do, trying to put it on, you know, their bikes, put it on like their mom's car, like the the you know, like the the what is the thing called in the front of the car, like when the logo's up, like it's you know, straight man in the room. Yeah, the emblem. Yeah, the emblem?

What that got the straight and gentlemen.

So they were taking off and so I'm fresh again. FAM you Fam you taught me you fight, you don't, I mean I started protesting at FAM. You We used to go on marches all the time. To the Capitol, and this is the time when Jeb Bush was in and we would be we would be protesting. We would be protesting all the time. Because I was also in student government and so my mindset was, if my kids are getting locked up, I have to look at the source and fight the source. And so the source is MTV.

So I got a couple of parents together, friends together. It was only about twenty of us, and we went to the MTV offices and you were out there protesting, didn't have a meeting, didn't know what it was gonna do, and we had poster boards and all this. And this woman came out and said who organized this? And I said me and my boyfriend. And that bitch looked at me and she said black, gay and angry. She said come back to the next day. And so I went home.

Was so excited. I went home put together a PowerPoint presentation. Baby, you have always been an over time because I'm like, if you tell me to come back and I'm gonna get to meet with people, bitch, I want to be prepared.

Girl.

I need to tell you the data of what I have learned of why these show need to be off and this is nothing against exhibit. I didn't know the man, I said on the man, but it was just like, you know, bitch. I got to the next day and they said, no, we don't want to talk about that. This is a castle for real world. God bless myself.

I ain't never seen them kids ever again. Baby, I'm like, I said, what do you want to put me in the house. We're two hot tubs, my bitch. This is why I do the work I do. Now I'm making up. I'm trying to make amends brothers that I just baby, and it was on I said, I'm doing it.

Oh no, I remember again the power of and I'm not going to get emotional. I say this and I never said this to you the I don't think people understand the power of representation. We're the same age. Right when the real world happened is when we started to see you. And because your mask presenting right and the way not that I'm a reality producer, I can I cannot look back on your season and say, well played production, because they sort of made us fall in love with you like you and then it was, you know, we wait, they waited to like drop the bomb that I'm gay.

It was like.

K this mask presenting gorgeous black ben.

With the fitted You know what I'm saying.

Original that you are the original trade. And I remember I came out around that time and my older sister, and again it's no shade to her time.

The thing is you let the men around that time your family. Yes, thank you. I let them in around that time. And my sister asked me because she said, are you Karamo? I said, and I knew what that meant, and she said to me, you better tell me now. I won't accept it.

And again and guys, this is back in the nine and we're so don't This is not even like shade, it's just truth. But my point was you opened the doors for black men like me. That was in my twenties. I've always been effeminine. It wasn't like I could hide being gay. But like you said, I did not let people in because of where society was at that time.

And I don't think you get enough credit for And I'm sure listen, and I want you to talk about this because I'm sure it's not just me. I'm giving you all your flowers, the fucking bouquet of roses, because Karamo, you made it easier for me to let people in. And I'm pretty sure you must get that we were scared.

We didn't have any images. We had Lcuta and were contracted to and they're straight and we have RuPaul, but that was a you know, at that time, the terms of drag queen. But we didn't have anybody that was like, oh, he's he's gay, he's black, and oh he's like me. He wears like boy clothes and all those things, like are you aware of that?

I am, and just recently start to receive it, because you know, like when you're in the trenches as we are, you can't stop and be like, oh, maybe I did you sort of just hustling. You're like, oh, thank y'all. I'm glad, you know what I mean, because for the longest, the real world had a different feeling for me, Like you know, so when people tell me like these stories, like now, I'm so honored and I receive it. I'm so thankful that I could be there because You're right.

When we were coming up, the thing that people used to say is like, are you RuPaul? Because that was their only reference. And I'm aware that once I came on the scene that shifted again, you know what I mean, for better or worse, whatever that is. And but for me, what I remember during that time is, and you, as a producer, you understand this. They told me go to the club and go to my clubs. Dude, go where I go. You're supposed to live your life openly. This is two thousand and four. I will go to the black gay club and when that light will go on for that camera. It's not like today where all the girls want to be on camera. Oh no, they were scattered.

Any club I went to, they would I mean literally all everybody will leave. Everybody would leave, and I would be in a club that, now on camera seemed empty, and the producers was like, we don't want to We can't go to these clubs. This looks horrible, you know what I mean. They would sit me down and they'd be like, there's nobody in the club, and I'd be like, it's because the camera whatever. Is there a way you can turn off the light, you know? And they're like, no, we can't turn off the light, you know what I mean.

And then at some point the black clubs in Philly stopped asking me to come because I was fucking with they money, and so imagine I'm twenty three, I now always live. I used to be at Atlanta at tracks. You know, I.

Mean, hey, in the club, you know what I mean.

But the old girl, they know where I'm talking about. But as tracks, baby, it's an aquarium now right, I think it's an aquarium. It it's an aquarium now right. Anyway, but I would But so, now imagine that's the mindset I'm going to is that, like, I come from my community, we black folks, we'd be all around and now y'all are scattering from me. Now I'm kryptonite. Y'all don't want to be around me. It hurt my feelings, like you can't imagine. I was like what And so I had never dated outside my race until that point and never dated outside my race. But now I'm on a show, I'm with all these white cast mates. I am feeling alone and isolated. And they say, well, if you got to go to the white gay clubs, because those are

the ones that are accepting you to come in. And this is not bullshit. Anybody will tell you them. Club said this, nigga ain't coming in no more. So the white clubs were the white girls were like this. They were like, yeah, girl, coming.

To round because the fingers says, first of all, he's not lying. And because we're the same age in two thousand and three, in the in the in the that decade, for sure, it wasn't safe to be out. And are you mean to tell me you want my mama and my day back at home to see me on cameras in the club, in the club in Atlanta, Hey they Philly, hey day, all those things. So the white gay experience is vastly different because listen, when it comes to black households, it's the church.

It's a church.

We get kicked off the house. No I'm not saying white boys don't either, but it's grossly different our experience. And I never knew that you were sort of unfortunately forced to partake in the gay white spaces because.

Because I was told you can't come back to our clubs, you had a camera on you, and and so the when I went to these gay spaces, I couldn't deal. So I found the one Puerto Rican that acted black that was and that's what that's what I went for. I was like, who in here? Like a black guy? Who in here? And so I found a Puerto Rican dude who's from Philly that was like yo, yo yo, not you know, like whatever, and I was like, oh, and so that was the first time I ever dated.

But I'm also, as you know this, I'm one of these monogamous girls. Once I get into a relationship, baby, I'm trying to make it work. And so now the real world ended and I'm continuing the relationship, and you know, that's that's we I still was only going to black clubs, but like you know, now this narrative had come out where like it was like, you know, he don't like black boys, and I'm like, that's not the truth.

Well let's go there.

Oh you want to go there, Let's go there. Let's go there.

I mean, it's the perfect segue talk show host. The thing is this, you have a reputation where the gay black community feel like you are whitewashed. They feel like you don't date other gay black men, You only day white men, you love being in white spaces. And I'm listen, I'm sure you've seen a lot of conversation about that on social media where people do feel like Karamo is one of those black gay male celebrities that once they make it they start to date white. What are your thoughts on this perception that the community has of you.

They ain't wrong, They're not wrong. I would feel the same exact way. I think that there is a lack of fucking representation in Hollywood of gay black men being together. And as much as I wanted to add to that and be something like what we see now with Queen, I want to be that. You know what I mean, But you also can't help sometimes who fall in love with.

But as you know, as my friend, I'm always in black spaces. I'm not just with the white girls. I'm always with black folks. I'm all like, I love my people. And as you also know, I date black men just so happens that they're public only picks up on the ones when they not my race. Like I am in relation.

I'm in a relation.

Do you guys you want to tell me you already know I'm in a relationship now with I'm like, man, you know, like it's but I do understand.

This is like when people come out here and they're defensive about that. I'm never gonna be defensive because I get it. Like, yeah, if I if I was sitting at home, I would think the exact same thing. I would think the exact goddamn same thing. And I'm not gonna lie. When I'm in spaces with other gay black men, people who are slipties that you know, I bring it up.

I'm always the one that makes the uncomfortable topic like oh, ain't nobody in here like and usually I'm the blackest in that room. No shade to some of them. But but I understand why, and there needs to be more representation and that's the point blank. But I will tell you this, like, it's my love for black gay man has never changed and will never die down. I love us.

I am so deeply attracted to us, and that's just what it is. And I know that the so it's only been three but because it was at the height of my fame, Yeah, it just seems like that's it because in between when I'm dating you don't get those when a show's not on, and then I break up and so it is what it is, you know.

Yeah, And I also think this, first of all, I love it accountability of you being like, no, I get it. I'm not dumb. I'm aware.

Anybody who don't say that they get it. I mean, who don't say it is a stupid like, I get it, and it is a problem. It is a fucking problem. But also on top of this, and this islet's be real, there are also profound, beautiful black day couples that outlets won't cover, Like they don't invite them. There's so many, and the carpenters who don't invite them, the magazines won't put them in, and so there's this layer of homophobia and toxicity, and that even goes for the black outlets, you know what I mean, Like they won't put on on certain people. They won't and so there should be more representation, you know what I mean. Maybe my next relationship, I'll be open with it and y'all get some representation.

You are currently dating a black man, you know him? Yes, I know him. I recently ran into you guys, Yes, and I was first of all gagged. And I didn't gag because you use of the black man, because I know you, I know you they black man like behind the scenes, we know a lot about each other, so I understood why they say that to un That's why I'm so glad you said this yourself, because we didn't talk about this before the interview, I also understood, like, no, I get bother saying it because obviously when you were in those relationship, they were public, it.

Was at the height. And then also on top of that, I was on a white show and that was like that was Remember I just went from a black show your show. I literally went from your show, yes too, queer eye.

Yes.

So I went from a black show to a white show, white proc show. And now all of a sudden, it's like at the same time, oh, you gotta because when I was on your black show and I was dating a white guy, yes, no one questioned if I like black people.

It was never a question. And you and you weren't hiding him from I wasn't him covered and we covered it, but no one questioned.

Then compound that with me being on a white show. They was like, oh, this nigga don't like us.

Yeah, And like you said, then your the next relationship was with the latino Latino Yeah yeah, and it was. And the thing is you publicized it on social media. That's it, and and that's and that's why it became this thing. But no, you are dating a black man, and you can tell me when to stop because I'm not going to reveal his identity. That's your story to tell.

He is a celebrity, I am dating a celebrity. And I wasn't gagging like you were the black man. I was gagging because of his identity. So after I gagged and I said this to the buff of you guys, I said, oh, bitch, hop to break the motherfucking internet because you two are such a beautiful couple, and I it makes sense to me. It makes sense to me.

He is I've always said this about about him to the too people. He is a sweetheart. And he and I aren't like the best of friends or anything, but when you are in these spaces, you run into the same people. And what I will always say about that man, I would be on the red carps doing my thing and he would be he would be like, and I'd be like, Hey, he'd like you good, like I'm great.

He'd like, you know, tell my friends and say hi, mut your friends. And he's always just been a sweet heart. And I and I and I know you have had experiences being unlucky in love. Yes, do you think he's the one?

I know? I'm one hundred percent sure I could get emotional. I've never I've met my equal, and it is it's powerful when you meet someone who you feel one hundred percent safe with, you feel one hundred percent secure with who you you can just trust with your heart because you know they are just a great human being and they get everything. You know. It's just it's special. It's pretty amazing and so and that's the reason why we're taking it slow and not you know, not taking it slow.

We don't taking it as low. We are deep in love. But while we are not publicly yet because we don't want comments. We you know what I mean, and so we are. We are protecting the love we have because you know, I do believe this is gonna be my husband. I believe this is gonna be my forever person. I feel it every single day. You know, we don't have any arguments. Everything is just easy. And not saying that we don't have discussions, but everything is just easy. Us get each other. It's constant laughter, it's constant love, it's just constant everything.

As much as I do believe that the world deserves representation in all forms, as your friend, I will selfishly say, keep it quiet as long as you can. You know, what I mean, like, because I what I what I witnessed. I was like I said, I I think he's the one because because the thing is this, You're such a beautiful spirit, and so is he. He's, he's, he's he's such a sweetheart. I just can't keep saying.

Okay, I'll give you the exclusive. I am dating someone and his name is Wayne Brady. I'm a dating Wayne Brady. No, Dad, I'm not going with I'm making with John. I love Wayne Brady. He's one of the most talent. It's not like we're not it's not like we're hiding.

You're not hiding.

We go, we go out, we do whatever. You know what I mean. We were together, we hold hands everywhere where. You know. It's just that once the public gets involved, they want to, you know, things just you know, and I just want to protect my I'm doing. I'm following Dana, Okay, Dana, I'm following data. Okay, Dana.

Is the goat.

The goat.

They talked and said, that's my son of the rick.

Okay, we didn't know. She said, that's my children.

That is my wife I met. I met her wife recently. Shout out to Larry Simms yeah, he does her hair, Gabrielle Union. He's iconic, iconic. Larry Sens is fucking iconic. Larry Sims was like, you know this Dana's wife. And I was like, and she was like hey, and I said, come my podcast.

She said, bitch, just I love watching it, but Carlos leave you alone. Bah. Can I just say one more thing? I hate that I always keep preaching on this, but Dana is somebody else who people forget, like though she's never walked into spaces not herself, meaning like the meeting, I've only heard people I know, producers of work. She walks in as herself, and that makes her even more powerful, because y'all girls are just catching on. But she has been her authentic self in every space she's walked into, and she's powerful. She's amazing.

I was an intern at the View and she was promoting whatever blockbuster movie she was doing at the time. And she did her thing, and she got her dressing room and I had to walk her out. Mama had on a sweatsuit, her hair back in a ponytailer, and she said, so what you're about to get into?

Okay?

And I said that the original trade she was with other women, who are you know whatever?

You know, I would say, now lesbian is And to your point, she wasn't hiding it. She was just like, this is my life if and I have the right to tell you're not so listen. I love that you're you're falling.

In love and not falling. It's already done. No, it's done, it's done. It's done. I'm telling you've seen us, you know it's together. I'm I'm confident. I'm confident that I am.

I feel like this is it. I do feel like he's the one.

Yeah, he is. We are. We align on everything. We the way that we feel about our futures. You know, kids, you know every single thing. It just everything aligns. Families, everything just aligned. And so I'm just like, yeah, you know.

I do want to get into the next Beteen.

You know, I still talk to every castmate on that show. You do.

I know you been Claudia. You and Claudia met on set and became tight.

Claudia needs to have five shows on air, and I cannot wait for that comeback because y'all girls played the kiff all over and over again of how that was the only one who could go toe to toe with Needy leaks. Y'all are missing out on good television by not having her on. Okay, y'all need to start petitions to put Claudia Jordan back in every show. You know what I mean. You've tried, You've done it.

Oh. I'll go on record saying this about Claudia Jordan. She to me is a prime example of someone that I feel like, if you want to make a good show, get her on it. You guys should be petitioning Claudia Jordan to be back on Atlanta Housewise to make the show great, because you need somebody who is fearless, comedic, her comedic timing her fearlessness. She's gorgeous to look at.

She tells you all her business. She has so many amazing old Hollywood tales, and she to me, is like Kenya Moore. And that's why I find it's so strange when it comes to some other people on social media and some of the girls on TV, whereas like y'all don't want a good show, I feel like Claudia Jordan is the most underrated reality Sorry ever, I agree with you.

On top of that, when we were on Next fifteen something with her character that has always stayed the same. And the reason that I'm close with everybody is that. But Claudius particularly is she is one of these people who is such a woman of her word and will love you to success, which is sorry, girl, but you picked the wrong man, sister. But and I say this to use this also example for other people. She loves people's success. She's so committed to saying I'm loyal, loyal by fault and like when our loyalty because when you read somebody who's also equally loyal, it works. But when you have that big of a heart like she does, you end up finding people who want to take advantage of that. And I always say when people when I

see girlfriends who are with men who are just using them because they know this woman is gonna love them to success, I always say, run because he's gonna deplete you. He's gonna take everything he can, and then he's gonna walk away. Claudie is not the first she walks away. She's strong, but her nature on the next fifteen was I'm gonna I'm gonna guide you because again, like I said, this was the first reality show since the Real World, this is the black cast. This show everyone was successful.

Let me give you a little bit of tea. You know this already. So I was living in the small apartment with my kids, and you know, they all have fancy ass homes and mansions and Bentley's all of them, the whole cast, Laura go vad you know, Benzino, Tiffany, they all had, Jennifer, they all had They was rich. Yeah, I'm working on a social worker salary. So baby, I'm in my two bedroom and my little pee peeple little whatever.

You know what I mean, it ain't it ain't pumping. I had to ask a friend to use their home to film in you remember, I do not because the camera crew couldn't fit my partner. But Claudia was so like, it don't matter who you are, you're gonna be the most successful. She just loved me. She just loved on top of me and being like, just no, it's okay, you you just be you. You are great, You're gonna be.

She just loved on me and said and guided me in a way that I'm like, And I've heard other people on other shows said she does the same thing for them.

She does the same No, she I've been privy to it. She does. She does, and I feel like she gets the bad rap. But when it when it came to you on next fifteen, I said to the producers, I said, because I didn't have had any money, no, no, no, but I'm gonna tell you what you had. I literally said this to them. I say, he wants to the most.

Oh I did? I did?

I said, I know that there's a there's a look that someone has and listen not to blow smoke up your ass. It's a look, Beyonce has I appreciate it. Do you know what I mean? It's it's it's it's a look where you know this person wants it more than anybody. And that was you. You were always nice to the crew. You wanted it more. And I remember one of your cast members said to you at the time, girl, you got the least followers here, and maybe two years later you did cry and you surpassed all of their following times two.

And you no.

No, I will always say to the world, I'm not surprised by your success. And when Kray was auditioning, I don't know if you know this your position in getting that gig, do you realize similar to Carrie Washington getting scandal, how every black actress in Hollywood wanted the role of Olivia Pope because it was the first time since Diane Carrol that a black woman was going to start on a drama network television show. So every black actress wanted that show. When it came to Karai, every black man who whether they put a candle on a shelf and said, I'm materior designer. Where did they they? Grandma had Church, I'm a stylist. Every gay black man in Hollywood, Atlanta, New York City? Do you know this? They all auditioned

for the show.

I do well because I came in last. I came in late. I came in late for that show. So another story about my casting. My cast is always unique. So they had already been casting Queri for a year and they were at now the final thirty or whatever. I don't remember what the final number was. I didn't know anybody. I didn't know what existed. I know that Queri was saying. I didn't know nothing about it. And I was sitting in bed watching Watch What Happens Live, and Andy Cohen had Carson Kresley on, who was in the original Queri, and they Carson was like being shady and was like, yeah, they're bringing back Queer Eye and they're not bringing us back. They're doing a new cast. And I said, a new cast of gay people. Bitch. I

gotta be on that, bitch. I just got off for the next fifteen Baby, I got to be on that show, okay. And I called my agent and he had said they're done casting. They are now in chemistry test. This is where they bring the top thirty that they want together to see out of that. And I said, You've got to figure out how to get me in there. You gotta If you get me in that, I promise you I'm gonna get it. And he was like, oh, you can promise you're gonna get it. And I said, I promise you, I'm gonna get it if you put me in there. And he found a friend that he knew who's in the casting environment, Gretchen, who's one of the most amazing women, and you know Gretchen, and Gretchen said, we will let him just get on the Zoom, but

we've already done. They let me get on a zoom. Baby, I knew I'd already done the research because I'm a very well researched person. Any job I'm gonna do, you have to know who's coming in, what they're looking for, know the players people don't see. People forget And I try to teach young people when you're talking about Hollywood, understand that it's called show business. You have to pay attention to the business side as much you paid attention to the show side. That's why you're successful. You're a great showman. You know how to entertain, you know how to host, you do it all. But baby, the business side baby equally important. Baby, and people forget as talent, especially that if you don't know the players when you

walk in a room, if you don't know what they were looking for, if you haven't read every article, then you're going to find yourself. So I saw that culture also had an opportunity for me to make it what I wanted. So I went in there about mental health. I talked to her. She was like, you know what, They're never going to cast you, but I'm gonna bring you to the chemistry test. I said, bitch that you don't fucked up now because the door, baby. That has always been my philosophy, like, don't let me in, baby, don't let me, I'm moving in. This is my ship.

This is gonna be my ship now, okay. And I'm a squatter bitch. I'm squatter bitch. I'm coming in but not taking me out. And so I got to that that chemistry test and they only I mean, it was like they were at the last week like that. That was like the last two weeks where they were going to pick the cast.

Do you remember how many other black men were there in the room.

It wasn't a lot. And this is what we talk about again. I think there was like six of us, five of.

Us because they knew they maybe maybe maybe one.

Exactly maybe one was a majority white man, and they said, you know, maybe you know what I mean. I think there was a couple of Asian guys, you know, you know, I think ten was the only Kashmirian or I don't think there was. For anybody who watches the square, I don't think they, you know, had it. But I knew once I got in that room. I said, bitch, I'm getting this. I'm getting this. And so she likely said you'll probably go out a round one. But I'm excited for them to see because they cast other projects. So I'm glad they could see you. And this is why on Aggretchen again, people if y'all don't know, if you're trying to be in show business, I just we just gave you a name. We both said, we love y'all.

Better go do y'all.

Research, child, They ain't gonna do it because they expect things to be handed to don't. We didn't grow up on YouTube, Google. Okay, you don't have so many resources. But not complaining.

About listen, I have faith, y'all, go I have faith.

Okay, okay, do it.

But she said they're gonna probably kick you out after round one, you know. And I was like, I was like, okay, and she just she's prepping me, like they already have their favorites. They're going to kick you out, you know. Like, and so I got on the show. I was I got on the show. There was no kicking out. No, there's no kicking out.

I remember, we never talked about this. So at the time, I had an overall deal with the production company, and this was the biggest show that company had at that time in terms of it going to two series on Netflix.

It was the first nonscriptive that yes to the original Yeah, j Levy.

Shout out to gen Levy who's now at Amazon. Genius Woman.

She is genius another another name go look up.

And Genius Love. She also greenlst starling Hollywood with Jason Madare like she's all about representation.

She was Jen Levy, and I honor her as part of the reason why I think they saw me because she was like, yes, she was in that room and she said that one right there.

I believe you. That is she walks the walk and talks and talks and she cares about representation. Yes, your name came up because I'm I'm I'm I'm in the rooms at the company at the time, and they said Carrama Brown, I said, And I remember telling them they said, do you know him? I said, I actually do. I said, you would not be disappointed he is, I say, he is the consummate professional and he's good at his job.

And once again another advice to the young people out there or even older people like there's people in general, don't be burning bridges if you don't have to, because you never know who else is in the room that can also vouch for you.

Thank you, you know what I mean, because if this bridge would have been burned that room. You could have been like, yeah, it's not gonna work.

Yeah, but I remember being like, no, he's the one. He's the one that show instantly became an international hint excuse meal, like international Query on Netflix is seen in one hundred and ninety countries. How did you deal with that fast track of fame?

It was fast track? But again, my life is this weird dichotomy because of how queer I was. There weren't a lot of the black folks that watched it, Like like I still walk in his faces and people will be like, we know him from his talk show. He's on a show called Queerrac. They have no idea about Queer Eye, And so it was it was weird because love us what show is that. I'll be like, bitch, ho goamis from it. They do not have no idea what it is. And but so so it was weird because like I walk in I go to Japan, I go to China. I was in the jungle and Bali and the guy cutting some tree or bark he looked up and he was like quere i, And I'm like, bitch, I am in the jungle of Bali. That's the power of Netflix. I will be in France, I will be

in Australia. I have a fan base wherever I go and I'm so thankful for them because they keep me going. But at the flip side, there wasn't a lot of black folks coming up to me. I wasn't invited to black events like I like I after okay, this is real, after next fifteen. One of the jobs you got me from that was me hosting the NAACP Awards. That was Carlos.

It was my first like correspondent job. You made me the correspondent baby. Okay, actually Couch might have shown me, but you actually made me a correspondent. If you said TV one and WACP, y'all gotta use him and and I loved it. It was I was so excited to be at the NAACP Image Awards. I have never been invited back to lac ANDWE Awards to this day. And this this is no shape to NLACP, NAACP. I love them, I support them. They do amazing work. But that's what I'm saying with queer eye. So though I'm popular, the people that I want to see me don't see me no more. They're not seeing me. We would get all these outlets and like I remember, we started getting in Vanity Fair and GQ and all these things. At l

we were on the cover of all We were on the cover of these magazines, like it was. It was amazing. And I kept saying like, hey, do you think so and so would want to talk to me? And they were like nope, And it was a it was And I'm not complaining. Let me be very real because somebody go wat says some thing. I'm complaining. Baby. I'm so thankful for my success, but I was also heartbroken that, like you know, the people I wanted to see me in this success didn't see me. Didn't see me at all.

I've never been invited to the BET Awards. I've never I've been denied from both carpets. What this is crazy to me Because me and my partner right now we talk about this. He's always like, baby, what do you mean. I'm like, maybe they have never invited me. I've went to the Emmys, the Gravits, the Oscars, I've been a bandy fair. I've never I have gotten denied to the BT carpet several times. My papaceys have been told we do not have space for him, and this is the god on the truth and then on the flip side, I'll get invited to like this white event, but I understand it's because Queer Eye had that type of success and so those individuals saw, you know, value in me.

Do you think a part of that?

So I understanding to say it was hard because I'm caught apaulic success and I'm loving it, but at the same time, I'm being denied where I really want to be.

When you were the only black person, we know what it feels like to be the only in the room. Was that painful for you? With microaggression?

And one hundred percent, one hundred percent, there's not even a thing you and I talked before we got here, and you know, you know what I just talked about my People magazine, my cover story, and you got to see an advanced screening. You have to see an advanced screening, and you saw the thing where they you know, they used the cop to pull me over and did it as a trick, you know, like anybody who doesn't know.

In episode two of season one, we were helping a police officer, that's who we were supposed to make over. But before we got to the person we were making over, a cop stopped up and I was doing driving and I don't have my license because I left it at home. And I told them I didn't want to drive, and they they pushed me to drive. They said you must.

We were an hour late that day in production, an hour day. My former cast me, Bobby has confirmed this an hour late in production because I said I don't want to drive. I don't have my license, and they said you gotta drive, and I said fine, got in the car and then we get pulled over and the stunt was let's trigger this black man in this front seat so that we can have an episode that we're going to have about blacks and a cop and whatever.

And it won us our first semi, but it was also fucked up. And you said that when you saw the advanced screening, you turned to the other black person you was yes, and said what the fuck?

We both were shocked by that, like what is this? And I had nothing to do with the show, obviously, but I remember watching it being like, this isn't entertainment.

So when people asked me about the microaggressions that I have to deal with for ten years, I'm like, I don't even gotta pretend and tell y'all stuff behind the scenes. You can see what was on the show. Like, I don't even have to tell y'all what was behind the scenes, because you can see it on the show. And that's what I've been trying to show people like and the things we go through, and this is why I give you your flowers and any black talent in this industry.

The things we goddamn go through that you just have to smile because they tell you directly, I will not hire you, I'll replace you. They say it to you. It's not as if they even like having a chatter behind you. They tell you, damn to your face, I replace you. You're not worth anything. And that's what ten years of this show was like. And so though I had the most massive success, I was at so many points sad, depressed, down. It was a it was a train wreck of up and downs, train wreck, you know what I mean. It was. It was it was a horrible time while also being the best time. Well, and that weird two the worst two things can be true.

Two things can be true simon taneously and that's your experience. And I didn't know this until the people cover that you did. I had no idea that there was a sexual harassment claim on you.

Yeah there was.

Was it by a cast member or the identity was never revealed?

No, it was, Oh I know exactly who it was. So a cast member and I had a little flirty situation, little situation going on, and one of the Toxic higher ups caught us leaving an apartment together and like you know, being a you know, a grown folks do whatever, hanging And they went to this cast member and said, hey, if you don't, if you don't say that he's harassing you, you're fired. And I don't know about any of this because I don't know that's happening this cast made. I just still don't know if they said yes or no.

But what I do know is that Toxic executive took this to HR and then HR said called me and was like, hey, you know, you can't go to set because we've gotten a complaint that you're sexually harassing somebody. And I was like what they were like? I was like, I'm sexually harassing, Like I'm the father on the show.

I don't do any of that. Like it killed me and look at me you got me eyes all watered up and shit because you just, uh, this is my first big show, after your show, after the next fifteen and now do opputune is going to be gone because someone's lying on me, you know what I mean. And so this now is in front of people, so the crew know that I've been called this sexual predator or whatever that may be. And I'm like, and I'm like, I couldn't believe it. I was I was shocked. I was devastated. And so they told me who and so baby, I'm a stunt queen at the heart, Okay, I'm a stunt queen. Okay. So the minute they told me who I was allegedly sexually harassing, I said, oh, baby, let me send you every text, message, video, a photo that

I have and you tell me if I'm sexual harassing. And they called me back and they said, we are so sorry that we even called you, and baby, it was dismissed. And as People Magazine and all the outlets have confirmed, they confirmed with Netflix that it was the dismissed that I was never But the problem was is that when I walked back to set, no one addressed it.

No one addressed that that wasn't true. So now I'm walking into a space where now people are looking at the only black man as some type of predator, and I'm like, y'all not gonna say nothing, y'all not gonna tell these people this ain't true. Obviously people know it's not true because I'm still here and I was here for ten seasons, but people still haven't the fact it always has hurt my feelings knowing that there's possibly somebody in the back of their mind that thought that I could do something like that. And I know I shouldn't care, but like it just it's always killed me that somebody in the back of their mind could think I could do something like that. And I said, I but bullshit I was putting up with, like could you imagine if

I said, Carlos King stole all this money, and then it's found that you didn't steal the money, and then I don't tell nobody you didn't stell the money. So now hearverybody around here thinking you stole the money.

Why do you think that executive did that to you?

Why I know why the executive wasn't in their right mind. I'll leave it at that. Okay, they weren't in their right mind and shouldn't have been on set, and so you know you're not in your right mind, you're doing things that are erratic, and that's It's these situations where I when people have asked me about my former cast I have always said that I respect them. They are hard workers, and I actually do wish one day that the six of us can get back together. I've healed.

I'm willing to own any parts, you know, like anything. If they ever came to me right now and said, you know what you made me feel this way, I would own it so quickly. That's just my personality. I would tell them I'm sorry, and I wish they could do the same for me, you know what I mean, because we were all all in this situation together. And what kills me is that, Like since my People magazine cover, I've seen one particularly given interview where they were surprised and I'm like, surprised about what it broke my I just want to be like you surprised about what what you're surprised about, Like, don't let me, don't let me, don't let this stuff queen to me. Come on, No girls are lucky. But I went on this thing and

did not say no names. I spoke on me and my truth because I'm one of those I'm one of those girls. I'm gonna speak on me in my situation. I'm not gonna tell y'all tea. But you surprised, baby, don't. Don't let me go down the list of things and see if you're surprised about that pissed me off. But even through me being upset for like five seconds, I was still like, you know what, you were still hurt.

You were still hurt. That's what the problem. Don't realize that we all experienced the thing. So like when we talk about that car situation, I wasn't the only one in that car. There was five other people for other people who didn't know, you know what I mean, who were equally affected by that, you know what I mean?

And whether they processed the same way I process that. You're equally affected the thing I'm talking about, that this sexual thing. Though yes I was on the there was another person that got thrown into something they didn't have no reason to get thrown into that caused tension. It wasn't just one person me getting affected. It was all of us. And I wish that one day we could come together and do a healing session and go through it, you know what I mean.

And one thing I have always heard about the CURI cast that I never once called you about because I was sort of like, if he needs me, he'll call me. I can't confirm. I've always heard that in real life, you guys were not getting along. I heard that you guys were similar to the cast of Desperate Housewives, where it was sort of like who's the star of the cast, if that person gets more screen time, if that person is in the middle. This is a true story. I've heard that, like Terry Hatcher was deemed as like the star of the show and the famous Vanity fair cover.

They were like, she cannot be in the middle. I heard that when it came to the cast, a cry when it came to you, he can't be in the middle, he can't be the star, he can't be the star. I was told that directly, directly, And so like what I.

Love about you, Carlos, is because you were in this industry and so you can confirm these things. Like so when people be like, what baby, you know this stuff? They they said who they star was. Some people believed it and then other people got told it, and the other people got told you are not it, and the black guy on the cast got told you are not it directly many times. Stay your place, stay in your lane.

And I used to be hurt by that. The show was originally the slogan of the show was originally We're gonna turn Red States Pink. That was the original slog it was, and the show had was always supposed to be about funniness, like because that's what the original show was out, like, you know, like you know, we're gonna go in the house, we're gonna rip it up, and we're gonna tell you, like how to be a metrosexual, you know whatever. That's what it was always supposed to be about. And then I came in and I do what I do, which is always connect and get deeper.

And I built a brand off of that, and people started having emotional reactions and the show started becoming emotional equally as emotional as it was funny. And I remember, all of a sudden, the campaign came out after I told to stop making people cry, stop getting deep. I'd been told all of that, screamed at the network came out and they switched the sloganto I'm not crying, you're crying, And I said, these bitches, baby, when I tell you the heat that rolls from my toes to that my head, you telling me every day that I am wrong, that I am the worst, that I should not be knowing, that, that you're gonna fire me for making somebody cry, and then bitch, your slogan is bitch, I'm not crying, you're crying.

And now all of a sudden it is the promos have been cut around emotion and tears. I said, oh, okay, I see I knew right then and there how we're playing this. So you'll take what I can offer, but you're never gonna give me credit. You'll you'll you'll grab and take from me and give it, but you're not gonna give me the same things you given. And listen, I am not over here claiming by any means, because the cast that I work with are exceptional at what they do, exceptional, that them people are exceptional, exceptional, the best in the business. But that didn't mean that I wasn't equally exceptional. And it's hard when their greatness is being honored and mine is being told shut up.

Were you all paid the same.

We were all paid the same. So there was a favorite nation, there was a favorite nations. And that happened because we all had three of us had similar agents, so it made it easier, you know. But I always think to this day, did have you know what I mean? Because I was the only one that came to that show with credits? You know, I was the only one that already had a name, the only one yet, Girl, y'all want to tell me that, girl, I'm not okay, okay.

Girl, whatever looked at it that way, that's true, only one.

And when y'all first started promoting it, all the things that went out, you put my name first because you needed them to say, think somebody was on the show. Got it, girl? But then once the show came out, girl, you won't do that no more. Okay, I got it.

Were the og cro cast receptive of you guys?

Yeah? They were fine. Okay, they were fine. What is funny is because Jay Rodriguez, who was on the original cast, recently just came out and said, thank you Cromer for speaking up. I experienced the same thing.

On a whole different network, on a whole different cast.

If it's the thing the reason I almost feeling the girl over there spelling t with Carlos. A disclaimer let me list my camera here A disclaimer. If you are coming on the Carlos King show, just know he is about to get you this feel every bit of tea that you wanted to speel and that you did not want to speel. Okay, just let you know comfor parent.

See I didn't come on a publishists today. Bring your publicists, bring your manager, bring your mama, bring your cousin, bring bring bring the nigga, pick up your trash, bring everybody so they could all be like Carlos, stop it.

I just act the classes. I love you and I appreciate that. And the thing is this, That's why I do get upset when listen, regardless of you being in white spaces dating white men like like you and I both agree on we both understand it. I also, though, imploy people. If you don't know this person personally, then try to have a little bit of discernment based on what they do for the community. You have always been there for the black and community. You have always been somebody who stood up for us. You lead with your blackness just because you made it doesn't mean that all the girl please. He was happy to be in the white spaces. He was happy to be there. This person, this person was happy to have a job. Do you

guys not get like job? You've been the gap between real world and the Next fifteen. You were a social worker, you were making minimum wage. The Next Fifteen was on TV one. It wasn't a mainstream show. It lasted one season. You were still figuring things out. And I hate the fact that there's some people in our community who can't just celebrate one of us made it unless celebrate him.

You know, I've always celebrated you. You have never changed. When you first bought your multimillion dollar home in La, this is my friend, he called, I have no pool party, bitch, come through. And I came through and it was other gay black people there. You've never whitewashed yourself at all. And I had no idea. I'm not gonna emotional, but I had no idea you were struggling because I was too busy celebrating you like he made it.

Is your celebration, and so I thank you because I needed to celebrate, because, like I said, when you start to be honest about these things, you're going through. The only thing that kept me going was like people like you, who I know would celebrate me, and who I also knew, understood because you were in the trenches. You were in the trenches. I know what it was like for you to get these deals, to create these shows and put people on, and the struggles you had when people will come against you online for bullshit. I understand the struggles, and so your celebration made it easy because at the end of the day, this is what I say about black talent, It's not a lot of opportunities that go around for us. We try and we push and we

try to make it and we doing our things, and I anytime somebody put something on, I'm gonna be the supporter, I'm gonna show up because there's not a lot of opportunities for us that when we get a job, bitch, we just be so happy to get the job. We'd be so happy to get the job. And you can't always choose what space that job is in, and you just have to And this is the thing is on a on a grande, a singular level. Black people understand that when you going to corporate corporate America, when you go on your blue collar job, whatever job it is.

You understand, like you look around, ain't nobody else there, and you'd be like, God, damn it, but bitch, I gotta go to work every day because I can get my check. Now, I gotta deal with this shit. I gotta get my check, I gotta pay my bills. I gotta do the things and are I'm thankful your celebration.

I appreciate it.

No, you can have it all the time. And as we sort of close in on that experience, obviously you know you stop doing press with Krai the final season the.

Stunt Queen, because that's not Atlanta.

Day's coming out there.

Stop quin. I'm gonna say a note that Gail King ten minutes before stunt Okay, let's talk it.

I love you for your transparency and honesty because this is everything. I listen. I'm on Instagram in between my workout sets at the gym, and Gail King is like, well, Carramos in here, he was supposed to be here. Your what we what we what we now learn is during the press run your your mother, which I mean I'm not gonna cry because to have someone's mom hears something that is against her son based on something that as a black mother immigrant my only boy, he made it.

And you know black mamas they love when they see they son on TV. You know what I'm saying, They like, that's my baby, right. You know that she overheard conversations about her baby amongst your cast mates when she told you what was said, and you a mama's boy.

Yes, fully, I protect that woman with all my heart. I'm a I'm a I'm a girl's gate. That'sir. You a girl's gate too, girls, Yes, but I love a woman. Okay, tag line. My mama crying. I couldn't.

So she came to you crying, yes, and said what she said?

I didn't know. She said, why didn't you tell me? And I was like, tell you what she's like that they don't like you and that just because the thing is, you have to understand I was also hiding this experience for my mother because I wasn't telling people because you can't, like unless you're in it like you are. It sounds like I'm complaining or that's the mindset I had, is that like you know, you receive it, you feel like I can't complain about this like and so I just couldn't say anything, and so I hit from even my own family, the experiences, the micro aggressions. They didn't know in their world. Life is great, Karma's life is great.

They don't understand the ups and downs of depression and all that. And so when she said it, I felt first of all sad because oh my gosh, like the secrets out. I felt embarrassed, But then I felt pissed because I'm like, now you got my mama involved, and bitch, I can take a whole lot. I and this has been the story of my life. I can take on a whole lot. But bitch, when you start fucking with people I love, oh, it's over. It's over. It's like, that's the part of me, that's Scorpio's things that come out.

You start fucking with people I love, who I ride with. Oh, it ain't playing that way, which is why I have, like I have long relationships with people because they know I'm righty or die. They know they call me you have the same way, call me I'm coming. I'm just showing up. And so that was the catalyst. I said, Oh, you got ma mama crime, bitch, fuck you?

Did she tell you what they said? Exactly.

I didn't ask. I was too embarrassed till this day. Oh no, don't care. And I don't care because for my own growth, my own growth, because I think a lot of times and this is a lesson for people, we feel like we need to know every detail so that we can like, what what's that detail gonna do for me? Mitch, I already know y'all was talking shit. Bitch, I don't even know what you were saying. Girl, figive a fuck, because on first of all, not gonna qualify it or defend it. So but what I do know is that the person you are, and that gives me all the knowledge I need to know how to move next, how to move out of the situation to grow. You un'er saying I know y'all full of shit, so bitch, I don't need to know. I don't even know the

details of it, and people get boggled down. I need to know what you said, bitch, I don't know. You know how they made you feel, And I think that's where the shift is. Remember how they made you feel. Once you know how they made you feel, it don't matter what they said, because all you now is going to This is the problem with like, when we find that information out, if your self esteem is not strong enough, it will seep in and it will start to ruminate, and you'll ruminate over and it will start to affect your self esteem. And I see so many people who thought they were being empowered by finding out the information, and they end up allowing that loop to be to affect their self worth and how they move through the world.

I don't need to know what they had said about me. What I need to know is how I was going to react out of that situation. And I reacted properly, you know, But you have to do what you gotta do, because I know if I would have said anything, they would have done what they've always done. They would have said, show up, you know, play your role, do what the fuck you gotta do. And again, you have to learn how to respond in a way that's going to empower you and help you to grow.

And I listen on some real shit, I would have done it the same way you have because and not just solely the exit plan, more so like listen sticking through the sort of like Okay, I get it, we're not friends, we're coworkers. This is bigger than you and I'm not gonna let any of you take me off of my trajectory because your career continue to catapult. You have a talk show. Congratulations on the multiple both seasons you had as the first gay person.

To have mail because they ellen had it, but mail.

Yeah, the first gay male to have a daytime talk show, and daytime talk is so difficult to even get.

So do you have it?

For multiple seasons? And again the next fifteen if you guys watched it. Your whole goal was I want to talk show that.

Hold on this, Charlot, hold on, you brite this up. Hold on, this is the thing why this is so beautiful. I'm getting chills. Next, you brought former reality show stars together to see what they were gonna do with the next fifteen minutes of the career. That was the premise of the show, what are you gonna do with the next fifteen minutes of your career? And you said, I'm gonna give you all an opportunity to become talk show hosts.

And Bitch, when I heard that, I said, bitch, Carlins gonna let me do what I said. Bitch, I'm gonna do everything I can to make sure this man sees and knows I am serious about this, and you know how to show with bitch. I was the only one at the end, me and Claude would yeah yeah. But I walked off that show and I said, oh, this is not done. I'm going to be a talk show host.

I was convinced because you planted a seed in me that it was possible. You planted a seed. You planted a seed. So when I'm helping these millions of people with my daytime talk show, you planted that seed. Because again, you talk about representation, what you saw in me when I was on Real World, no one said to me before you you know, you give me a talk show host, and I'm gonna show you how. I'm gonna give you a whole season to do it when it's small on my face and I was like, bitch, you gonna so You're gonna get me every resource I can so I can show the world I'm gonna talk show host. I was not gonna take that. And you know this from being there. I did not take that opportunity lightly at all. Bitch.

I was showing up every meet and everything. Girl, I'm like, what we we gotta do?

You did you came in early, you did the job, you did everything.

No, but you are the reason that the seed got planted, that it was possible. And so this is the given exchange of why I love you and what you do for us. You help us, you plant seeds, you do these things. Because when I walked in my show set, they're in my office. I wish I had a photo it. I should have brought one. I had a thing of the next fifteen because this was my next fifteen. This is literally what this was.

It.

I was like, bitch, this is what Carlos said I could do, and here it is.

And yeah, I'm gonna say this, Alice Cameron me now, and I'm gonna say this because this is the prime example of this. The reason why a lot of reality stars don't make it is because they're not grateful for the small wins. They're not grateful for the small beginnings. They're not grateful for the small opportunities that come their way.

Everybody wants to be Nanni Leagues or Kim Kardashian, and they don't want to do the work that's necessary to get there. Everybody wants social media to love them. Everybody is not doing their job. The fact that he didn't say, I'm on TV one care like this small ass network. It was the fact that you showed up and said, I'm just going to be the best I can be.

And the reason why God has always propelled you to unforeseen heights is because Karamo is what I try to tell all my reality stars I work with that take the small wins and be grateful for it, and God will bless you with all of your heart's desires. There's reality stars that I worked with before that I have seen so much potential in, but they never appreciate the opportunity because they were like, oh, I should be on a bigger network. A lot of them, i'most be real with you, a lot of them want to be on Bravo.

They want to be a housewife. And that's fine. Do you but also know that if you're not appreciating the actual opportunity he's in front of you while would God bless you with something bigger? And when they fumble the bag and they lose the opportunity, that's when they start blaming everybody else except them. You did not protect your opportunity.

And Karamo Brown is the prime example of being on a show the next fifteen, the least followers, the like not the most popular, broke baby, okay, the least paid. But he was the most grateful. And this is a prime example of how you are grateful for every single opportunity that comes your way. And you don't have to be an entertainment to get that lesson. All of you guys to get the lesson up. When God sees you be grateful for the small opportunities, give you a baby.

He's planting the sea for something bigger. Because when God can see if you can handle this small blessing, then my child, I know you can handle the bigger one, the big.

The big.

And you have been the preach because you have been the personification of that. And that's why I have to bring it back to Even when he made it bought his fabulous home in La he said, hey girl, I'm having a pool party. You want to come, I'm like, I'll be there for you. And he gave me I'm not gonna get chills, I'm not gonna cry to see someone that looks like me when and you gave me a tweet said, look, Carlos, like this is my bedroom, this is this and and you know for black people.

I got a pool a black post, and you have a pool. You made it, bit kid, and you went from I'm you know, I'm a social worker and I have a small apartment. But Carlos, if you give me the opportunity, I'm to be here and you and I just I'm I'm so proud of you and I you know, and vice versa. So what what is next for Kramo Brown?

Because I know this, This ain't it.

Oh, it's not it. It ain't it. Well, I'll tell you this. What I am focused on right now is like for the past two years, I've been on a complete wellness journey, like one hundred percent sober, focusing on my mental health, my physical health. I launched an app called Key and I it's it's the first app that is where you can get a customized fitness plan, customized nutrition plan, a grocery list, sobriety support, mental health support.

I record videos in there all the time. I do everything in this app because there's I also have an AI where you can talk to me. I also do webinars where people can actually ask me real questions and talk to me. You go to live key dot com. L I B e k E dot com to get that. But I created this because I knew the next journey was giving all the people who have watched me some space that they could go to to have access to to, you know, all the resources that I didn't have when I was trying to build myself up. I will also tell you this, I have written three books, children's book, one memoir, but and I have been asked for ten years to write a self help book. And I always said I will not write a self help book. I

said I will not do it. And the reason I said I wouldn't do it is because I said, until I'm living one hundred percent the truth, I'm not going to do what these snake oil salesmen do and lied to nobody. I'm going to have to live it to give it. I'm not going to be over when I give advice. It's partly based on my training, but it's also based on my life experiences. That's why I'm so transparent.

But I said, a self help book that's going to live for years, it has to come from a place of truth. So I just actually turned in the manuscript for my first self help book, which I'm super excited about. I also have two brand new shows that are be coming out that I'll tell you about off on camera because the network has announced them. First, I'm gonna cut you off.

I was the first to know Alex camera me. I was the first to know his talk. So he said, hey, bitch, I'm having to talk show off the record. I'm gonna do Dancing with the Stars first. I tell you you said you said it's a strategy. I'm doing that first. I will be going by Coramo one name only, and then after that my talk show with debut. And I said, not a strategy, strategy.

That word that, bitch. When I tell you that, people read me. They were like, what are you doing on Dancing with the Stars? This is that is not And I said, bitch, I want a daytime talk show, and I want people around the country who are not used to watch Netflix or whatever, who's not watching Quera to know who I am. And I'm not gonna tell him my last name. I'm just gonna give him one name.

And bitches, did what I need to do what I need to do? So what what is everything that's coming next? And you'll see is is elevating what of how I'm helping people I'm so clear now about my mission in this world. I'm so clear about my purpose. I don't even have a question. I know I'm here to heal people.

I am here to heal. And that looks fun sometimes, that looks messy sometimes, and it looks straightforward sometimes. But I know I am here to heal. I am here for people to know that they can call me at any time. I can guide them. People stop me on the street and I sit and I talk to them, give them advice. People hit me up. Don't be doing this all the time, but people hit me up ask me for money, and I get money. I'm not joking.

I swear to God. People, you know how you get that part of your Instagram where you it's like you can't. You got to accept the message. I read those and someone will be like, you know, I'm struggling right now, and I will immediately send them some money because I also know what it is like to be a single father raising two boys in a two bedroom apartment, lying on the next fifteen about because I was taking a bus, can somebody let me borrow the car so I can come drive to this set and seem like I got a chick card.

Your purchase a steph and he would sometimes drop you off at home.

Dephanie would drop me off at home because everybody else had Badley's baby. But I was like, baby, I gotta get off the bus. I gotta get home. It's about to be home, Like this is the real. So when people hit me up now and this is what I mean about my purpose and I know I'm here, God has blessed me, I am completely bursting you talking about my home. You talk about the things that I've getten and so I can talk about those things without feeling fear of people being like he's bragging. Because I give, I give, I give, I give quietly as we most people should give quietly. And I know I'm talking about right now.

Don't let your right hand up to the left hand is doing exactly.

And so like, I do this because I know I'm here to help. I know I'm here to heal. I know what my purpose is. And when me telling my truth recently in the People magazine and sharing thing, I've had all these executives and people telling me who are higher up saying, oh my gosh, I've been through that.

I've experienced that, I've went through that I know what you've gone through. We even talked about this in the elevator. You were like, oh, bitch, I know exactly what you're talking to. I went through the same thing with these these exact same people. And I'm not calling the names out because I don't need to, because the names I'm gonna call out are the people who are now accepting me in new rooms and opening up new doors for you, you know what I mean. And so I'm just I'm just excited. I'm just excited about what's coming next, Like twenty then the twenty six, twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven, twenty eight. Baby, your thought, your thought. There's a reason that I've been here since two thousand and four, baby,

over twenty years. Okay, there's a reason. Baby. I know how to keep reinventing. Girl. Madonna taught us. Beyonce thought us the reinvent do what you gotta do it. No, I'm jerk, and.

Hey, listen for you. Even I know for you, it must feel nice to be financially blessed. It feels good you are a millionaire. Do you okay, okay, okay, I'll get between us. Boys.

Do you.

Do you sometimes go to your account. Just check it and be like, Okay, it's still there. You know, you're like, you know what I mean, Like okay, Nini Lee said. Nini Lee said when she first made her first million, and this is the course back in the day where we all went to ATM machines, Niini Lee said she will randomly go to the at machine and print off the receipt and she were reading to say and she said her cup holder her car was full of ateen receipts.

Bick said, I can't believe I have this much money my bank account, like me, knowing me, knowing your humble beginnings and your struggles. And I think this listen, I think this is empowering for people. Because when Nini shut that story, I think it's very empowered and said the same to me. She said, first of all, bitch, check your ban count every single day. And I'm like every day?

She said, what are you afraid of? And I said, well, you know, I just don't want She said, check it every day. And I said, okay, Like do you sometimes be like damn, So.

I'll say this, I talk about this, I'll talk about this. In this instance, I don't take my bank account every day because the way that my money is set up, I don't have access to check it like a bank account. There's no see coming out. You know, like when you know you have to understand that, you know, you start putting your money in trust and sort of investments, sort of things. You know, when you have those things, you're not taking out of an ATM because you know there's and this is there's a deeper conversation that we need to have as black folks about like putting your money just in some financial institution that is not really paying you the dividends you deserve. That it's not making money

for you. It's a different thing. So I can't see my money just from ATM because my money is out there working right now. She's at work, she has a job. She has a job to do right now. So bitch, And like just like any employee, bitch, if I see you hanging around, bitch, I'm gonna say what you doing? What is going on? Why you ain't got no work to do. It's like when I was young and my mama walking in the house and she'd be like, yell, ain't got none to do right now. That's how I feel about my money. You ain't got none to do right now. So but I am very thankful because I am I will never go back to where I was because I know what it's like, and I will always make sure that I am putting my money right, putting

in things. Literally, one day we should have a conversation about black finances and what to do.

We gotta Yeah, black people with financial literacy is a thing, and you know, hide and get under your mattress or just in the in the financial institution is not the move.

I was giving a girlfriend the other day who is struggling right now because she just got through a divorce, and I said, go buy you an insurance, a life a life insurance policy. And she said what for And I said, go buy it and then put it into a trust. Now, we can't go deep into this because this is not the space. But I just put out, y'all on game. This is not something for the wealthy to do. You are got some money right now, go get a life insurance policy a million dollars, Go put in a trust because then that's what you borrow against and you'll be making money off of that. Now, Go Google, Go go putting chat GBT and claude and learn. But these are the conversations that I'd be saying to people,

like they think you have to have money to make money. They think you have to be rich to do things. And I'm like, any nigga out there who's ever had to work and do something, you are smart enough. If you were smart enough to figure out your bus schedule to get to work, you smart enough to make a million dollars. Baby, you are smart enough. You have it in you. And just I just I just can't wait to have more of those real conversations of how what I learned? What I learned, Like how I said, Okay, what do I do with this? You know what I mean?

Because again you know me, like I'm taking a bus and doing whatever. And now I'm like, I don't do that no more. Well I still do sometimes?

Why no, No?

And the thing is, actually I rode my bike here.

Good, well the range.

I know this.

I recently saw my house. I said, I don't need this big ass house.

It was it was.

Because the thing is, I'm like, it's just me.

I have no kids, no young people.

I don't have a family.

They told us nobody. It's a scam. I mean serving all the extra fees, baby, I will rent all day.

Thank you. Home Ownership is not the flex.

Not the flex, baby, listen, And I'm not saying if this for you, do it.

If you have a family and you want to live in a house for ten plus years, bye, buy a house. If you like me and you doing it traveling living.

I don't need to show off with no big house some more. That's when when I first made it, that was what I needed to do. I felt like I needed to do it to prove to myself I made it. Now I don't know better. I don't need to. I need to. And what I do want is investment properties. Yes, what I do want is to be in my apartment and when something go break down, I call somebody else and don't have to worry about no warranty, no fixing. Bitch, come in here eleven o'clock at night. The building I living.

I'd be like, hey, the oven light's not out, can you come fix it? And they'd be like, yes, sir. They get tired to be putting together a quest request all the time.

Mister kinger be like are you at home? I'm actually not, but going going.

Look e shit is motherfucker because everything is gone. And bitch, when I'm done with you'all, I'm gone tell you we're gonna put these kids on one day. Let's put the kids off. I thank you, thank you for this. God's timing is always perfect. This was a time for us to talk. And I'll say it over and over and over again. I'm thankful for our friendship. But I'm also proud of the man that you are. And from one fellow gay black man to another, keep soaring.

You. You make us proud. You, you make us proud.

If I can leave your audience with one thing, go ahead, baby, message for them, go ahead. This is something I've been telling people recently that I want people to hear, and I've been saying this a lot lately. The compass was invented before the clock, so it's not about the amount of time. It's about the direction. And I think sometimes people get caught up with the amount of time it's gonna take for their goals to get the family they want.

They feel like I gotta hit it by this time. Baby. It's about the direction you're going in. Look at what you're doing, the steps that you're taking, how you're guiding yourself, who you're aligning with, how you're acting. That's more important than the time it takes, because what we are true testaments of is baby. I could have, like you said before, with all these reality stars, I could have saw an opportunity and said, oh fuck. It's also what happened now.

I still don't even know what greater is coming, because but I do know the direction I'm going. And that's my little last little piece of for y'all.

Karama Brown, y'all, I'm sorry, Karama. Reality with the King is executive produced by me Carlos King, produced by Lizzie Mimics, and a partnership with the Lack of Effect Network. You can also find us on my YouTube channel at Being Carlos King Underscore

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