
The Millionaires and Wild Horses of Cumberland Island
Dienstag, 20. Oktober 2026 · 37 min
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Located in the southeastern US just off the coast of Georgia, Cumberland Island is a hidden treasure with deep -- and, at times, disturbing -- lore. In today's episode, Ben, Noel, and Max explore some of the more ridiculous stories from the island's past, from Thomas Carnegie's plans to take over the whole joint to the strange reason that wild non-native horses still roam there in the modern day.
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Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always, so much for tuning in. Let's hear it for the man, the myth, the legend, our super producer, Max, the Wild Horse Williams.
Ooh, couldn't drag me away.
That's Noel Brown. I've been bowling. We are excited to explore... something, a strange tale that takes place in our own home state of Georgia.
Right, on the island of Cumberland.
Yes, yes, and Cumberland Island, if you're just looking on Google Maps or what have you, might seem like any of the other islands down there in the southeast of Georgia, but There's a strange story at play here, so we'd like to explore this story. It's a place where, guys, they're just random horses.
Yeah, right. They're just roaming free. Let those ponies run, as our buddy Scott would say.
Yes, yes, yes. Our good friend Scott Benjamin. Noel, we have to talk about cumberland island as uh with a little bit of context have you been there.
I don't think so i was racking my brain uh and i i'm a i'm a hilton head myrtle beach kind of guy never never hit the cumberland island but i heard it's really lovely this.
Time of year yeah what about you max i have never been to cumberland island i actually I mean, I can guess where it is, but I don't know off the top of my head exactly what part of the state it even is in.
Yeah, yeah. Well, we know Georgia has a very odd shape as a state. So it's got that far southeast area where they have a few islands, a coastal connection, and, of course, the famous Savannah, Georgia. Cumberland is interesting because it is the biggest barrier island in along Georgia's coast, it has two primary land masses. They're connected by a bunch of marshes. They're called Big and Little Cumberland Island.
If you look at it all together, Cumberland Island proper is about 17 and a half miles long. It's between like half a mile and six miles wide. And overall, you're looking at 16,000 acres, which is As Noel and Scott just said, enough room to let those ponies run.
So the local flora and or fauna is pretty much what you'd expect from an island of the low country. Spanish moss of saltwater coves, these brackish marshes that, oh my gosh.
This is such good writing.
Courtesy of our new research associate, Ames, brackish marshes that smell.
Of pluff mud.
Know what pluff butt is but i bet it smells interesting uh and a ton of other creatures like the uh remarkably san rio-esque adorable tiny fiddler crab tiniest fiddler crab playing the tiniest violin uh you ever did see sea turtles uh come uh every year um and lay their eggs on the shore uh and then of course there's the.
Horses yes yeah which we'll get to in a moment we promise As far as human beings go, Cumberland was originally inhabited by the Timuqua Native people. That is spelled T-I-M-U-C-U-A. And their territory stretches between northern Florida into Georgia. However, accounts are going to differ on whether or not these Native peoples had a year-round presence on the island, or maybe they just They just rocked up every so often when they needed to, you know, hunt tiny fiddler crabs.
And this group of people lived there, unbothered by outsiders, probably stopping by Cumberland every so often, with no interference until about the 1500s.
Oh boy, what was their interference in the 1500s, courtesy of master interferers, religious orders of monks, Spanish friars, and as well, of course, the military accompanying them.
I like that, Noel. I like your phrase, master interferers. It's kind of their whole deal.
I mean, no shade on religion, but they've caused some sticky wickets over the years, right?
Right, right, right. So as you're saying, these master interferers, I'm in love with that phrase, they are rocked up and they called the island San Pedro Macama.
Because like it didn't already have a name. They just, you know, hey, you know what? We're the first ones here. We'll just plant a flag and call it whatever we want.
Can you imagine?
The gall?
Right. Just the absolute chutzpah there. Like, could you and I and Max walk into like a random mall?
Could we walk into- I was thinking random mall too, Ben. What the heck? I don't know why. So what did we say?
We're going to Cumberland Mall? That's what it is! That's what it is! Oh my gosh.
It's actually my favorite mall here in the Atlanta area. It's got a really good arcade called Round One with lots of dope Japanese rhythm games and arcade fighters. But no, Ben, I would not rock up to Cumberland Mall and or the Round One arcade and just decide.
At this day forth.
I decree it shall be known as Trump Mall.
Right.
Sorry. There it is. There it is.
No, it had to happen.
Wouldn't it be America Mall?
Well, there is the Mall of America.
It is. It is called the Mall of America. I've been there. It is the largest mall in the United States.
Or wouldn't it be Mall of America Mall? Mall America, kind of like Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim.
There we go. Or City of London, London. Yeah.
What's the harm in being redundant?
Anyway, what we are saying is that these Spanish folks were no hate to Spain, but Spanish folks at the time were not quite conquistadors, right? They were conquistadors. Conquistador adjacents?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's great. They were kind of dicks. So they walked in like Noel, Max, and I planned to walk into Cumberland Mall. And they said, forget whatever these folks call it. It's San Pedro Bacama now. We're going to build a huge fort, you know, for our time. We're also going to build a Catholic mission.
And have some disease.
And have some disease. And also, this is such a catbird seat. uh, geographically because they can gather sassafras, which is fun to say. And the sassiest frass, it's the sassiest of the frass.
Everybody knows that. It's like a root, right? You make a, it's, you can make, it's like a, a, a sassaparilla.
Yeah. It's a, it's a shrub and Europeans loved it at the time. They loved their sassafras. Uh, also there's this excellent harbor on Cumberland Island, right? which allows these Spanish conquistador-coded types to engage in a lot of trade, and they're able to meet people from these native communities, right?
And as you teased there earlier, Noel, this interaction was very bad for the native people. The Timocua were wiped out. over the next 300 years by colonization and disease. Yup.
Can't have one without the other. Well, you could, I suppose. Neither of them are great.
Colonization, there's really no version of that that's like awesome for the others.
Right.
The ones being, the ones what are colonized, yeah?
It makes you think about what will happen when human beings encounter alien species because everything in human history teaches us that it's bad for the home team.
Indeed.
We've also got to mention 1751. This is when human slavery becomes a matter of legal fact. Human slavery is allowed in Georgia. On the books in 1751, 13 settlers receive the very first land grants for Cumberland Island. This eventually grows into 15 plantations that produce indigo, rice, and cotton, all worked by enslaved people. And we don't know what happened with the sassafras.
No, that got lost to history.
And we have some great sources coming from Georgian Cyclopedia.
I'm just going to call it that.
I guess it's really Georgia Encyclopedia, but Georgian Cyclopedia sounds cooler. and their entry on Cumberland Island. They said before 1800, Cumberland was almost entirely uninhabited. but by 1860, there were more than 500 enslaved people who resided there, which was a 7 to 1 ratio of enslaved to free whites.
And at the end of the Civil War, 1861 to 65, you had true occupation type situation. Military authorities placed Cumberland Island within the Sherman Reservation, the Sherman Reservation occupation, which is a 30 mile wide land reserve that ran the length of the Georgia, South Carolina coast, which then, you know, as residents of Georgia, it feels like Our coast sort of gets lost in the, you know, the beauty of coasts.
But it is quite lovely and great places to vacation. You know, Savannah, Charleston, you know, some really, really cool spots.
Yeah, yeah. And shout out to that broken arrow off the coast.
Who else is going to bring you? Right.
Broken arrow being a, what is it, an unexploded nuclear weapon?
Or a lost one, right? Yes, a nuclear device. They're in the, as Ames calls it, pluff mud.
The rich and ripe smell of pluff mud.
Yes, yeah. We know that there was a small settlement of freed people or free people that grew around Cumberland.
Yeah, they're in language.
Yeah, Gullah, which is cool.
Gullah Geechee.
They're the people. And of course, y'all may remember growing up Gullah Gullah Island on Nick Jr. I just remember there being like a giant tree frog, but that's about all I remember. There are Gullah speakers that came up, of course, or that inhabited areas around Savannah as well. I just remember when I did public radio news for Georgia, one of my colleagues was based in Savannah and he was always doing stories about sea turtles and Gullah history and other stuff.
But I just remember quite a lot of sea turtles and Gullah.
That's such a cool job, man. What a catbird seat that you could just become curious about something and put it on the air.
Yeah, yeah, those were the days. Back when there was funding. It is nice to see that they are still going strong, Georgia Public Radio.
Yes, we are huge fans of public radio. It was also during this period, not the period of radio, but during like the early 1800s, that there was a mansion built on Cumberland Island. We have to introduce.
You to— Dare we say a manor?
Yes, yes. It was definitely a manor of mansion. It was built by a revolutionary war hero named Nathaniel Green. General? Yeah, General Nathaniel Green.
But you're right.
We should say his rank. Well, you know, that was his title, I guess. He had the bona fides. The mansion was five stories. It was made of a really interesting material. I guess I can sort of liken it to adobe, a mixture of broken oyster shells, ash, water, and sand that was mixed locally.
Yeah, kind of. It reminds me of some other forts maybe down south in Florida. And they named the house Ames. I agree with you that rich people do have a weird habit of naming estates. They named it Dungeness Plantation.
After the crabs, no doubt. Or perhaps the crabs are named after the plantation.
Hard to say.
Hard to say. This manor of mansion burned down in 1866, but it was a, dare we say, beachhead. It was just the first of dynasties that would later settle into Cumberland Island. And, Noel, I got to tell you, man, I remember having to go to Sea Island. in, uh, off the coast of Georgia, uh, where apparently a lot of very wealthy people have their, I don't know, winter homes.
Yeah.
Well, I can't remember. We talked recently about St. Simon's Island and a lot of these very wealthy enclaves, uh, in coastal, on coastal Georgia and South Carolina. Um, but yeah, Sea Island is definitely one of those as well. Um, Lucy Carnegie, who is the wife of the less famous younger brother of Andrew Carnegie, the also-ran Carnegie, Thomas Carnegie.
I love that this guy is long dead. Yeah, and we're.
Making him from beyond the grave. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Thomas. I'm sure you had stuff going on. But, you know, Andrew was kind of a bit of a bigger deal. It's hard to exist in that shadow, even post-mortem.
But his wife, Lucy, visited Cumberland as a tourist once. and really, really liked it. Had a great time, was absolutely captivated by the smell of puff mud and all of the other features of the island. The history of Dungeness really interested her as well. So she and her husband set about purchasing some ruins, areas, though it was a little difficult since the owner of the Dungeness estate wasn't really trying to sell it, a Yankee. Right.
Yeah, it was it was that time in American history. And the problem was for the owner that the Carnegie's have, spoiler, a lot of money. And they were set upon this idea. Lucy Carnegie really wanted to own this history. So eventually the owner of the estate said, all right. I will sell it to you. The Carnegie say, yay, we've got our new home in Cumberland Island, but they didn't stop there.
Noel over time, they tried to buy the rest of the Island as well.
What rich people buying up all the land.
I don't know about that then that doesn't seem right. A year later, Carnegie and a business associate of his, a guy named Leander Morris, um, Is that nominative determinism? It just sounds like lender, but I'm not sure if he was in banking or not. He bought the adjacent 8,240-acre Stafford plantation, which also came with a mansion, from the heirs of a cotton baron for.
$ 40, 000. Can't get an extra value meal for less than $ 40, 000 these days. In 1886, Lucy acquired Morris's part.
Of the Stafford land for as little as $ 38, 000.
Which is still a crazy amount of money. We're not going to do the inflation calculator right now.
We already know it's pennies. I mean, it's already too cheap. So what's the point? Add insult to injury.
Why don't we?
And so Lucy Carnegie, through various proxies, would continue to add island real estate to her portfolio. stuff to her dragon pile for the rest of her life she ultimately controlled the southern 90 percent of the island so shout out to the people who refuse to sell.
The holdouts yeah Thomas passed away in disgrace in 1886. Why am I so down on this guy? In 1886, just after retiring. But he did create quite the presence, cast quite the shadow on the island of Cumberland before his passing. He commissioned the construction of a two-story Queen Anne-style home where the ruins of that dungeness manor once stood that had roads put in connecting the existing structures of the family and purchasing. This is like, approaching an old.
English, like, manor compound kind of situation. In that style, right?
Yeah, yeah. It's definitely a compound at this point because if you have to put roads in between cities The various things you have built, you are no longer in a townhome. No, no.
You got to have a gamekeeper.
Yeah, right. You got to have people with weirdly specific jobs. Oh, the footman. Oh, there's a guy. The master of arms. Yeah, the master of arms. Here's the guy we pay to sleep in the rough in our garden and dress like a gnome. Remember that? The garden gnome thing?
Oh, the flex, the weird historical flex of hiring a human garden gnome.
Yes, they were so close to that kind of cosplay. After Thomas, who, Noel, you obviously hate, after he passes away.
I feel better about him now. I'm warming up to him.
You're warming up.
But though I'm not quite sure if we're going to get to any weird racist stuff.
So I reserve judgment. Okay, there we go.
That's fair. After this guy passes away, his wife, newly widowed, continues to build and expand the estate. The compound itself, or actually the house itself, grows to over 50 rooms, and then they have all sorts of things, all sorts of weird rich people things. We know it ultimately came to be called the Dungeness Complex, right? This is more than 20 buildings, right? their walls, their decorations. There's a colonnaded walkway, which we just learned the word for, a pergola.
Indeed.
You had yourself an olive orchard, a garden, you know, which I guess that's in the British parlance as well. You had some greenhouses, a dairy pasture for cows to roam free.
Yeah, I don't think they're growing milk.
That's not a thing that can happen.
Although, wouldn't that be funny if the BBC had done, like, a mockumentary about, like, milk trees?
Remember the spaghetti trees?
Yeah, that was a good one.
Yup.
So the Carnegies, oh, not to mention a smokehouse, an ice house, because I guess, yeah, they had to, like, create ice in refrigerated facilities.
Yeah.
Folks were saying, just picture whatever your weirdest whim is. And they had a house for that. And they had a name for that house.
Yup. They also had multiple houses, housing, even for their staff, uh, of 200, which was of course.
Uh, here we are.
There it is by race.
There it is. Yeah.
You called it.
That's that guy.
You called it.
You were right. Family line.
They, they, They had this crazy lifestyle, and a lot of the bachelor sons of the Carnegies would stay on the island routinely. Eventually, the Carnegie dynasty moves out of the Dungeness complex in 1952, and they did it because, get this, folks, really wealthy people are also cartoonish cheapskates. They said it was too expensive to maintain this crazy endeavor.
And the house burns to the ground in 1959, this time due to arson, not accident. It reminds me a little bit of our earlier series on Frank Lloyd Wright.
The whole disgruntled staffer, I guess, for lack of a better term, that burned the building down. Yeah.
Crazy.
Yeah. Yeah. And you think about it without being undiplomatic, you can see where someone is coming from, right? If you're put in that kind of situation, why not burn it down? So the structures are still standing, or the ruins of Dungeness Complex. You can visit them if you tour Cumberland Island today. You will also see Plum Orchard Mansion, which was a wedding gift to George Carnegie. Can you imagine...
Can you imagine giving someone a mansion as a wedding gift?
It's a bit of a flex. It's a step up from a Lambo.
It's a step up from a Lambo.
Yeah.
Plum Orchard was donated to the NPS, National Park Service. We're big fans. In 1972, another structure called Grayfield now serves as a hotel. or like a bed and breakfast kind of thing. You can visit and sleep there. The Carnegie family still owns it.
They sure do.
So, lest you're thinking that the Carnegies are the only rich folks to ever plant their flag in Cumberland Island, well, you'd be mistaken. It's also famous for hosting the secret wedding of, I love the secret wedding, of John F.
Kennedy, heard of him, junior rather, and Carolyn Bessette.
Specifically, the ceremony took place at the First African Baptist Church with a reception at Grayfield following.
Oh, geez. Yeah, the inn from earlier. Okay, we promised you horses, folks. Here are the horses. Ames really came through on this one. The other unusual feature of Cumberland Island, like apart from the weird life of American aristocrats, is wild horses. And we kept, off mic, we kept singing that frickin' song.
Couldn't drag me away from that frickin' melody. It's so beautiful. Really got its heels dug in, or its hooves. There we are.
Yeah, there is some evidence that these wild horses came to the island as early as the 1500s, but we only have written records of them dating back to 1742.
By the end of the 1700s, island landowners were reporting an estimated population of around 200 horses, as well as some mules and some free Roman livestock on Cumberland Island. In the 1800s, though, several of the plantations were being operated on the island, and horses actually played an important part in transporting folks, you know, because these are, you know, on those roads, on those dirt roads, as well as, I guess they would Pull plows or something?
I don't know.
They would pull something. They would be workhorses, as the saying goes. And as well as, you know, horse riding, horseback riding for funsies.
Yeah, yeah. And your pals, the Carnegie's folks, they contributed to this population. They had a stable of over 50 horses for exactly what you just described, Noel. I've got to note this. Riding, hunting, and carriage pooling.
Aha, carriage.
Ben, off mic, or not off mic, on mic, but off topic slightly, did you hear that they are ending carriage culture in New York City?
The whole like around Central Park. Yeah, I think so too. There have been issues.
There was some legislation because I think a young boy was killed or trampled. And of course, it's also not particularly awesome for the horses, not to mention that it smells like horse poop around there pretty often. I just rode my bike from Queens to the theater district to see a show. And man, you have to cross the little circle, Columbus Circle, and it smells like straight up dookie.
But this is a good thing. I think that's pretty awesome.
I had no idea.
This is new.
I think I just saw this yesterday. That's great news, though. I remember a few years ago, our pal Jon Stewart was railing about the horses. It's bad for the horses, right? It's bad to make them pull carriages. But that was the way of the world.
It's not that far off from the elephant show.
Episode that we did on Stuff They Don't Want You to Know.
Oh, man.
Yeah.
And we've got a SeaWorld episode coming up. So stay tuned for that one, folks. So the horses, they stay, right, after the Carnegie's leave in the 50s. Between the 1940s and the 1960s, these horses are considered free range. You live on the island, you see some horses, and you're just like, oh, there goes Big Joe.
Big Joe.
Yeah, riding on his steed. Yeah, and by 1972, the horses have survived on the island.
They're reproducing. Now we have wild or feral horses. Also, Ames wants everybody to know that feral horses is a sick band name. I think it's pretty good.
Dude, absolutely.
And I just think, I don't know, what do you think of, Feral versus wild in terms of terminology. Doesn't feral have a bit of a connotation of like they're going to bite your face?
Feral has some baggage with it.
I think it's got a little bag of badger baggage, yes.
There it does. We'll keep it. As technically an invasive species, these horses are non-native animals. They are not in any way really managed by humans. There's no population control, no veterinary care. Nobody is– there's no government agency that makes sure they get food and water.
Yeah, and I think that also would include it's not like they're being fitted with horseshoes, right? They're out there doing their thing all natural.
Yeah, which can be pretty rough.
Yeah, yeah. For sure. It's not all natural.
Right, right. These guys are made for the vast plains, right? The steppes of Central Asia and stuff like that.
Didn't they contribute to kind of some of the like some management of the environment?
Like they would, you know, eat.
Vegetation and kind of contribute to, you know, so you got to cut that stuff back. But if you have a bunch of horses eating it, then it can help prevent wildfires and help things grow, etc.
Yeah, they're grazers. They're not built for the terrain of the forest on the island. They don't get the ideal amount of food. Their average lifespan is only eight to nine years, which is scary and sad. And now, to your point, Noel, there is this grand debate between animal rights advocates and then conservationists, fans of horses and fans of earth. So the... The conservationists are going to tell you that there's a lot of harm caused by these horses to the island because they are grazing too much.
And the fact that they're, you know, always eating, always eating different plants reduces plant cover, plant growth. Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's the kind of stuff that like you would need folks to take care of. like if you have anybody i've never had the pleasure i have a backyard that i have a guy that comes and helps me with because that you know it can get really cool backyard thank you ben i do appreciate it but my dude just came yesterday and he's the guy that kind of did a lot of the landscaping and put in some like rain what's it called like a rain burn or something like that but it's got a rain garden but it overgrows so easily and it can get out of hand i can't imagine having the amount of land that some of these millionaires were having to deal with.
Not that they couldn't afford to have folks to cut it back for them, but what a convenience to have it kind of come with the property.
You got this built in like, you know, garbage disposals.
And we have one very anti-horse source. which I didn't think we'd say today. But we have one very anti-horse source called Visitor Use Management Plan for Cumberland. And they tell us, quote, the feral, to your point, Noel, horse herd likely consumes between 200 to 400 tons of vegetation each year and removes up to 98% of vegetation in areas they frequent. So our visitor use pals are telling us, apparently, that if these wild horses still roam free on Cumberland Island, eventually they're going to eat the forest.
They're going to eat the forest. Well said.
Yeah, just munching down on some veg. Different solutions have been proposed to provide care for these horses, and that includes things like providing contraception, adopting young foals from off of the island, But it does remain a continuous issue. The idea of maybe the population becoming unsustainable, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Not being enough resources for them to be able to exist naturally as they have. That's why hunting is not always awful, right? 100%. That's why people get hunting licenses, because it helps manage the population so that deer, for example, don't get... crowded out by their own population, and then the resources that they need to survive become too scarce.
Right, yeah. And if we don't have people or other animals hunting rabbits, then eventually they're going to terrorize everybody, including Napoleon.
Ben, we've talked about this before.
Isn't it interesting, though, how, you know, it's okay to hunt deer, who are majestic, beautiful creatures. Borderline, rabbits are sort of on the fence for some people, but hunting horses?
No good. Not in this country. I mean, come on.
I'm not suggesting that they should, but it is just that disconnect in different cultures as to what animals are off limits. I always find it particularly fascinating because as we know in other countries, eating horses is no big deal.
They're as popular, if not more popular, than beef.
That's exactly what I was going to jump in and say. It's like, you know, horses are just not as tasty. Quote Futurama, we eat humans if they didn't taste like crap.
Right. Yeah.
And thank you there, Max. As we know, longtime listeners, I have eaten many things. One of those things was horse. I've actually had horse sashimi, which was not bad. I'm going to say it wasn't bad.
Well, and Ben, if I'm not mistaken, I know you always go out for the wild meats from your snack stuff days and just your general culinary adventurous spirit. But when we were in the Middle East, I think you got a camel kebab.
I did.
Yes.
What was that like?
Gamey? Yeah, it had some game to it, Noel. It had some game to it.
I think gamey is such a funny term for the way something tastes. It doesn't really mean anything.
It feels like a British person's insult. Oh, you've got a bit of game upon you. Well, if someone stinks, they will say you smell a little gamey. That is a thing people say from time to time.
Oh, man.
Ben, I think we should wrap this up with a little bit of tangents and trivia rather than save it for a listicle episode because I think this is a good little supplement. And thanks again to brand new research associate Ames for rocking out this brief.
Yeah, yeah. So one of the big badgers or the big pickle here is that tourists love badgers. visiting cumberland island and love seeing the wild or feral horses trotting around eating up the forest if you want to visit cumberland island you have to realize that the rules nowadays are pretty strict no i think they limit how many people can be there at once.
Exactly which also makes sense because humans can be something of an invasive species if they overcrowd places.
Look at Mount Everest, for example. Not good.
There has apparently been a documentary that has been making the festival rounds about the Mount Everest kind of Sherpa phenomenon and how it's absolutely just being overcrowded by these millionaires, adventure enthusiasts, and causing all kinds of problems to the natural beauty of that place. This is interesting, and I'm glad that they are keeping this in mind. Only 300 visitors can be there at any given day. No cars or carts are allowed. The island can only be accessed by boat, and there are no shops or restaurants. So people are trying to, like, get away from it all.
What a good way to do it. No, I mean, give it time, I guess. Indiana got to wonder, like, is there something in the bylaws, or how does that work? Because we know corporations want to, like, dig their hooks into these remote type places and get you a Starbucks set up or whatever. So there must be something actively preventing that from happening.
Also, how do we define cart? Like you can't have a little red wagon that you pull around. Like you can't have a little basket on wheels. Like what is a cart? How strict are they with it? Apparently pretty strict. And if you have the chance to visit Cumberland Island, please tell us about your experience and let us know if you got close to one of the horses. That's our show. Thank you so much to our super producer, Mr. Max, the wild horse, Williams.
Huge thanks. Minor thanks.
Begrudging thanks to Jonathan, the beast of burden, Strickland.
The quizster.
Oh, that's perfect. And Jonathan, if you're listening, yes, sometimes Noel and I go off mic to really think about the best way to politely insult you. Exactly.
Yes.
Fine.
How do you do to you, sir?
And A.J. Bahamas Jacobs, a.k.a. The Puzzler, of course, Dr. Rachel Big Spinach Lance, Eve's Jeffcoat, Christopher Haciotis, Ridiculous Crime. I kind of know. Have you ever ridden a horse?
It's been a long time, Ben. It's been a long time. I did, surely, when I was a young lad, but not in.
My adult life have I ridden a horse.
Yeah.
I should ride the more than Ethan.
Fair, Ben. We'll see you next time, folks.
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