Building the Future: NASA's Ambitious Plans for a Moon Base

0:00Stuart Gary This is space time series 29 episode

0:02 120 full broadcast on 7 October 2026 coming up on Space Time, NASA adds new science investigations for its moon base. New secrets revealed about the Martian north pole. And NASA and Boeing provide an update on um, their troubled starliner spacecraft. All that and more coming up on uh, Space Time. Welcome to Space Time with Stuart G.

0:45 NASA's added payload suites for three new lunar scientific investigations as part of efforts paving the way for humanity's first moon base. NASA and allied space agencies are developing plans to return humans to the lunar surface and establish a permanent base on the Moon's south pole under the Artemis Artemis programme as part of efforts to eventually land humans on Mars.

1:08 The new payloads will help researchers understand lunar resources, better map natural shelters on the moon and assess environmental hazards there. The three payload suites include a lunar South Pole Environment Monitoring Station. It will provide long term environmental and hazard monitoring, recording micrometeoroid impacts and tracking the abundance of volatiles, materials that can easily shift into gas which drift into the Moon's thin atmospheric layer called an exosphere. The technology includes a short period seismometer to detect seismic events, providing crucial hazard assessment in order to ensure the safety of moon based hardware. Then there's a geophysical investigation mapping the lunar

1:50 interior which will deploy a payload of the Marius Hill pit on the lunar surface to hunt for subterranean lava tubes, aiding in understanding a fundamental lunar volcanic process. This will scan beneath the Moon's surface to see whether the Mareus Hills pit leads to a large underground lava chamber. If it does, these natural underground spaces could offer future astronauts ready made protection from extreme temperatures and harmful radiation. Important groundwork for safe long term living on the moon. Confirming these void spaces now could shift future habitat planning, offering natural ready made shelters that provide crucial thermal stability and shielding from deadly ionising radiation and the threat of

2:33 a meteoroid bombardment. Finally, there's a spectral depth imager uh, which will provide the first direct on ground measurements of ice hidden in lunar cold traps, laying the groundwork for lunar resource utilisation and surface operations. See, water ice could be converted into drinking water. It could be split into separate hydrogen and oxygen for rocket fuel.

2:54 Or the oxygen could simply be used for breathing as well as pinpointing where ice exists and how much of it is there. This payload will also study how the lunar surface behaves, how rocket exhausts disturbed the ground and how stable it is for mobility. It's all part of NASA's Artemis programme to return humans to the moon this time to stay.

3:15 This report From NASA tv. This is drawing on the playbook of success from the 1960s.

3:21NASA TV We're bringing it back.

3:22Stuart Gary This is how you do the near impossible. We're

3:24 learning and building up to doing something extremely hard.

3:28Speaker C A permanent human presence on the moon may

3:31 sound like science fiction, but, but it's already taking shape. The ideas are becoming hardware, the plans are becoming missions. The future is happening now.

3:42Stuart Gary Being able to see moon base elements,

3:44 getting to the finish line is just awesome.

3:47Speaker C We're taking you behind the scenes to show

3:49 you how

3:52NASA TV people are looking up again, believing in big

3:55 things again. America is returning to the moon.

3:58Stuart Gary To build a moon base, we're going to need to

4:01 achieve the near impossible.

4:10Speaker C NASA is building a moon base, a place where

4:13 astronauts will live, work and conduct science on and around the moon. Now, building a moon base won't happen all at once. It will take more than 20 lunar landings during the first phase, with each mission delivering the equipment, technology and science needed to build, learn and improve. We're travelling across the country to meet the companies building lunar landers for upcoming flights and see how they're preparing for their next missions to the moon.

4:43 Just north of Austin, Texas, Firefly Aerospace is preparing for its second mission to the moon. NASA's Carlos Garcia Galan is taking us, uh, inside its headquarters where engineers are preparing the lunar lander for its upcoming mission.

4:58Stuart Gary Love to see the hardware ready for moon base

5:00 mission Blue Ghost 2. So tell us a little bit about

5:03Jonathan Nally what we're looking at. Yeah, so what we're looking at right here is,

5:06 uh, like you mentioned, our Blue Ghost Mission two lunar lander. The lander is now stacked. It's starting to really look like a lander. And we're getting ready to install our electronics and all our payloads. Blue Ghost Mission 2, the lander is going to the far side of the moon. And that is really driven by one of the payloads that will sit on the top deck of the lander. It's called Lucy Night. So that's a radio astronomy telescope. So they want to sit on the far side of the moon, away from all the noise from Earth. So the moon's kind of blocking all of that. And they're looking back at the cosmic dark ages. So that's a very amazing payload. Yeah. Um, we will also have another payload that we will have put into

5:39 orbit. So it'll be in an orbit around the moon. So that's Lunar Pathfinder. We have a rover on board.

5:45Stuart Gary Super exciting.

5:45Jonathan Nally Yeah. So that'll be our first mobility

5:47 payload that we have. So, um, all of those are coming along with us. They're each going to gather science, technology, data and it can all be used on future missions. A lot of the people that worked on Mission one are still here working on Mission two. So we have all that knowledge still in house. And then you're implementing all the lessons learned because we have all that great data from Blue Ghost Mission one. Um, so it does feel easier. So it feels like the wheel is starting to really turn a lot faster. And then we've got these other moon based awards.

6:12 So it's really about can you make it repeatable, can you produce it? Yeah.

6:14Stuart Gary Uh, can you be successful several times? Is

6:16 the excitement building up?

6:17Jonathan Nally Oh, yeah.

6:18Stuart Gary I mean, you're getting pretty close.

6:19Jonathan Nally Yeah.

6:20 I think, um, anytime that you have something in the clean room where it's like, you look at it and you know, like, that's my lander that's going to the moon, it's also humbling. It's like, hey, we did it one time, but now we need to do it 2, 3, 4. We need to keep doing it and keep upping the bar and getting better each time.

6:39Speaker C Over on the West Coast, NASA's Ryan Stephan

6:41 is at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California, where Voyager Lunar Systems Gryphon 1 Lander has arrived for environmental testing.

6:50Speaker F This larger lander is an infrastructure class

6:53 lander. It's not just meant for scientific payloads and instrumentation, but also it's made to basically take equipment and infrastructure level capability and deliver that to the lunar surface. It's also landing in the South Pole where the terrain is a little bit harsher, it's a little bit more dangerous to land. It requires precision navigation, guidance and control to land in safe locations.

7:17 This lander will be taking a total of, uh, 10 payloads, the largest of which, the uh, Astrolabe Flip rover is the largest commercial payload to ever be delivered to the lunar south pole. So we're thousands of miles away from where you guys assembled the spacecraft. Why did you decide to bring south to Southern California? Jet Propulsion Laboratory has some of the best, most capable environmental testing facilities in the world. And for a, uh, lunar lander this size, really what we want to do is test the spacecraft, put it through its paces. Right now, Gryphon is fixtured on top of the mass properties fixture, which is the black thing you see in front of it. Basically we are testing to measure the mass of the

7:57 vehicle, the total mass, the centre of gravity, the moment of inertia, so that we know the exact configuration of the flight vehicle when we get back. We will finish reviewing a lot of the test data that we've done here, correlating to our models and our pre test predictions, modifying those based on the feedback that we've got during this testing and potentially addressing any findings on the ground here while we have the chance before we launch later this year.

8:20 It'll be exciting.

8:24Speaker C On the East Coast, NASA's Courtney Abeglin is

8:27 at Blue Origin's testing facility in Cape Canaveral, Florida to see the latest on the Blue Moon Mark one lander.

8:34Speaker G Mark one, serial number one is designed to

8:36 prove out the core technologies for Blue Origin that we will eventually apply to the, the human landing missions of Artemis. So it's our liquid oxygen, liquid hydrogen systems, it's our precision landing capabilities, it's also our ability to offload large amounts of cargo.

8:52Speaker C I see a lot of people working on this lander.

8:54Speaker G Can you tell us what uh, is

8:56Speaker C left for this lander in order to make it fly?

8:58Speaker G We just completed our thermal vacuum testing

9:00 at Johnson Space Centre in January and February of this year. We then brought the vehicle back. We did a number of tests. We first tested our RF compatibility within TDRS satellite system as well as a deep space network. We also have tested how our vehicle reacts during stage separation from the New Glenn vehicle. We've tested the acoustic environment and soon we'll be testing our cryogenic propellant system.

9:25 We've just completed our fit checks of our BE7 main engine, the actual engine that will fly to the moon. That went perfectly. And so we're now closing up these tests and we'll be ready for New Glenn. As you know, we had the mishap uh, at the pad with uh, New Glenn. The team there is making phenomenal progress. We are working to have serial number one ready and stored in a quiescent state for when New Glenn is ready. We expect that launch to occur in Q1 of 2027. And once that's complete, we'll now continue on to serial numbers 2, 3 and 4. We're also carrying NASA payloads, the Scalps payload, which will allow us to visualise what the exhaust from our BE7 engine is doing to the surface of the moon. So that will feed

10:08 forward to heavier landers in the future. We also carry a retroreflector from NASA on this mission. NASA's been a phenomenal partner to us. They've been working hand in hand with us. And uh, that's what's going to allow these four serial numbers to come off the assembly line as quickly as they are

10:25Speaker C in Houston. NASA's Adam Schlesinger

10:28 is at Intuitive Machines headquarters getting an up close look at how the Nova Sealander is being prepared for its third mission to the moon.

10:36NASA TV So this spacecraft is our Nova C. This is our

10:38 IM3 vehicle. As you can see up, um, on the top is the methane tank. The oxygen tank is below. The engine actually sits right here. Underneath this is the engine deck. You can see that we've just put the top deck onto this spacecraft. So we're excited. Within the next month we're going to be putting the engine in and we'll be taking it outside for a hot fire test to confirm that the engine is ready to go for launch.

10:59Speaker G Great. And after that test, what's the path

11:01 look like to get to launch?

11:02NASA TV We bring it back inside here. The payloads

11:05 sit on panels that go on the outside of this spacecraft. So we'll bring those panels in, we do integrated testing and then we do some vibration testing, we send it down to the cape and we uh, get ready for launch. This vehicle will have five NASA payloads looking at the magnetic anomaly that's at Reiner Gamma on the near side of the moon. So it's a super exciting science mission. We're also doing other science. So we have six, uh, commercial payloads, we have a payload from the Italian Space Agency, and we have the five NASA payloads doing lots of different types of science.

11:37Speaker G And this is the third IM Eclipse delivery.

11:40 Can you talk about, uh, some of the lessons learned from the previous two and how that's being applied to this one?

11:43NASA TV Yeah, absolutely. So on IM1, which was in

11:46 2024 and IM2, which was in 2025, we learned lessons. We learned things about this spacecraft. We learned how it landed and how we could make it better. And so we're integrating all of those lessons learned into this spacecraft and our future spacecraft IM 3, 4, 5 and 6, uh, which are all on schedule to extend the Moon base capability.

12:09Speaker C These lunar landers will soon deliver the

12:12 science and technology that will turn the Moon base into a reality. But there's even more ahead. The lunar south pole is one of the harshest environments with extreme temperatures ranging from 334 degrees Fahrenheit to over 130 degrees. This huge swing means the power, communications and landing systems we build must withstand both intense cold and strong heat. This is no small task. So NASA is teaming up with Northrop Grumman on three new technology demonstrations that will be delivered to the Lunar service. Beginning in phase one. The goal is to reuse key power, avionics and communication systems. Originally developed for the Gateway programme's Halo module, these test missions will give new purpose to

13:02 existing hardware to help build the infrastructure that Artemis crews and robotic explorers will depend on. At the movie Moon Base and in

13:11Stuart Gary that report from NASA tv, we heard from NASA

13:13 Moonbase Project Manager Carlos Garcia Garlen, Ray Allensworth from Firefly Aerospace, Nick Newell from Voyager Lunar Systems, Ryan Stephen from NASA Moon Base, John Calouras from Blue Origin, Courtney Adaglin from NASA Moon Base, Trent Martin from Intuitive Machines, and Adam Schoessinger from NASA Moon Base.

13:35 And this is space time still to come. New secrets revealed about the Martian North Pole. And NASA and Boeing provide an update on, um, their troubled Starliner spacecraft. All that and more still to come on, uh, space time. A new study is found at. The Martian North Carolina pole is far less dusty than previously thought. Although Mars may once have resembled our Earth, the rocky Red Planet now appears to be far from hospitable.

14:10 Still, certain details, such as ice bound water pique scientists Curiosity. Just like on Earth, Martian ice contains a valuable record of past climate that could say whether the Red Planet hosts or ever has hosted life. Aside from the poles where the ice is exposed, most Martian ice is buried beneath a dusty surface layer. And dust impacts climate by darkening the ice, which changes how much sunlight is reflected back into space. One of the study's authors, Aditya Kula from the University of Washington, says astronomers know there's water ice in the area surrounding the Martian north pole, but there's been widespread disagreement on how dusty that ice is.

14:51 If it's dustier, uh, the ice will be darker. And just like a dark T shirt in the sun makes you feel warmer. Dusty ice gets warmer and, and vaporises faster. On Mars, much of what scientists know about how Earth's climate has evolved through millennia comes from ice sampling. Scientists drill deep into the polar ice and draw out long ice core samples containing a record of the local atmosphere. Just like tree rings, these records can be dated to ancient periods of Earth's history. But this is no easy task here on Earth. And it's even more complicated on the red planet, Mars. Back in 2008, NASA's Mars Phoenix Lander successfully sampled ice near the Martian north pole, a major triumph after the

15:34 previous Mars Polar Lander mission went missing near the south pole of Mars in 1999 due to the simple failure of scientists and engineers to convert Imperial to metric measurements. In this new study, the authors used data from that Mars Phoenix Lander mission combined with observations from orbiting satellites Several years ago, Kuhler discovered a discrepancy in the way researchers were analysing the physical properties of ice on Mars. The approach was developed for studying regolith on the Moon, but when Kohler checked its accuracy on Earth, the results seemed off. In this study, the authors redid the calculations using a different method successfully used to study snow and ice on Earth. The new results,

16:16 reported in the journal Space Exploration, suggest that the north Pole of Mars is stacked with layers of dustier ice. Between slabs of cleaner ice. A dusty layer of frost forms over the ice every winter, but then sublimates and disappears in summer, revealing older, cleaner ice. Previous estimates suggested that the top layer of polar ice contained as much as 25% dust biomass, but this study suggests it's closer to just 3%.

16:44 Kuhler says by looking at how brightness changes over time, the team figured out that there's got to be a frost which is forming in the winter and is therefore more dusty, and then in the Martian summer it goes away, exposing the cleaner, older ice beneath. These layers contain key details about the climate of Mars thousands of years ago, when the ice is thought to have formed from snowfall. See, Mars has experienced massive ice ages that have deposited shallow ice on roughly a third of the entire planet. Kuhler points out that our Earth is stabilised by the gravitational pull of its moon. On the other hand, Mars, having only two very small moons, Phobos and Deimos, oscillates wildly, causing dramatic ice

17:25 ages. Kuhler and colleagues previously suggested that the layers of ice and dust could create conditions for life on Mars. You see, the dark layers could help trap sunlight and form pockets of meltwater within the ice. And these pockets, enriched with nutrients from the dust, could potentially host any bacteria and primitive life forms living on the Red Planet. You see, similar pockets of shallow, dusty meltwater found in ice on Earth are often teeming with life in the summer. Then in the winter, the liquid water freezes and the microbes become dormant until the next summer. The fact that Mars and Earth both have similar layers of water, ice and dust is interesting, which begs the question, why does one planet have

18:08 life and the other doesn't? This is spacetime. Still to come. NASA and Boeing provide a new update on the troubled Starliner spacecraft. And later in the science report, new evidence suggests there are hidden chambers in the tomb of Tutankhamun in Egypt's Valley of the Kings. All that and more still to come on, um, space time.

18:46 NASA has provided a new update on Boeing's trouble plagued Starliner CST100 spacecraft. The agency supplied a new launch programme for the mission, including additional crew flights and certifying a new rocket for crew transportation to low Earth orbit. The crisis stricken Starliner vehicle was meant to complement SpaceX's Dragon capsules regularly transporting crew to from the International Space Station. But unlike Dragon's smooth entry into the commercial crew programme, Starliners suffered model problems during both its unmanned and manned test flights, including stranding astronauts on the station for half a year back in 2024 and 2025 after reliability concerns peaked following spacecraft engine failures

19:31 and persistent helium leaks. The initial return to flight status plans called for just four manned Starliner missions for NASA. Now an additional two manned missions have been slated to transport crew to the space station, and NASA is also working to have the United Launch Alliance's new Vulcan rocket certified for manned spaceflight after the existing Atlas V rockets phased out. The new programme calls for another unmanned Starliner 1 mission to the space station in order to validate fixes which have now been made to the spacecraft and to gather more flight data from there. NASA and Boeing will use what they've learned to continue implementing any corrective actions identified and complete the test, testing and certification required

20:13 for manned spaceflight. Then there will be a ah return to crew missions on Starliner 2 by 2028. Back in February, NASA released the findings from the agency's inquiry into Starliner's ongoing problems. They eventually made no less than 61 recommendations needed to meet the standards required for future human spaceflight missions. That report specifically identified issues with Starliner service module's reaction control thrusters which were operating outside their engineering qualific and that resulted in the loss of control experienced during the Starliner crew flight test mission. Through significant ground testing and analysis, NASA and Boeing have learned that the service module thruster performance issues resulted from a

20:56 combination of factors including the thermal environment as well as features inherent to the design itself. Based on these findings, Boeing has now made thermal modifications to the spacecraft service module, which NASA will now uh evaluate for improved performance on the Starliner 1 test mission. NASA and Boeing have also decided to implement an additional thruster valve design modification in support of the spacecraft certification for future crewed flight. Right now, the unmanned Starliner 1 mission has the potential to fly as soon as December this year, although January next year is more likely. That will serve as an engineering evaluation mission to verify improved thermal environments, obtain necessary performance

21:38 data for system qualifications and identify residual risks ahead of any manned missions. Following the flight, NASA and Boeing will complete the service module thruster valve design modifications addressing poppet seal extrusion and its adverse effects on thruster performance. Boeing will also implement other improvements across the spacecraft, including the installation of new crew module thrusters, new batteries and modifications to the parachute system for improved performance and reliability. Modifications already made to the design include removing the entire wiring harness, which is fitted with insulation that was prone to catch fire.

22:15 Clearly, Starliner hasn't been good for Boeing's quality control. This is space, time. And time now to take another brief look at some of the other stories making news in Science this week with a Science report. A new study has warned that every 10% increase in emergency room occupancy levels leads to a 1% increase in death rates.

22:52 The findings, reported to the European Emergency Medical Congress, looked into data on over 19,000 patients treated at 134ers across the UK and compared the number of patient deaths within 28 days of being treated against how many patients were being seen on the same day. The study clearly showed that on average, emergency rooms were operating at 175% occupancy, and when overcrowding started to push patients into being seen in corridors, there was also an increased risk of dying, which was in line with the risk associated with the occupancy rates. And these problems aren't unique to British emergency rooms. We find exactly the same overcrowding and ramping taking place in the United States and across

23:37 Australian hospitals as well as A new study warns that scientists are still unsure about the true threat status of around one in three Australian bird species, including 48 threatened species of bird. The findings, reported in the Journal of Pacific Conservation Biology, highlights a major challenge for efforts to prioritise bird conservation. The authors also found that the low levels of certainty were more pronounced among near threatened species, with around two in three birds in this group classified as having low certainty. They say it shows there's uncertainty about species status even among Australian species considered at immediate risk of extinction, and research needs to be targeted at those

24:18 species with the lowest level of certainty. Archaeologists say they've found evidence suggesting there are hidden chambers in the tomb of Tutankhamun in Egypt's Valley of the Kings. A report in the Journal of the Occasional Papers of the Amarna Royal Tombs Project claims the as yet unexplored chambers of King Tut's tomb could hold the remains of the Egyptian queen Nefertiti. The authors are basing their assertions on geophysical surveys, including the first use of gravitational techniques to probe the density of the ground around the boy king's tomb site. A new study has shown that children who use smartphones by the age of 12 are more likely to report eating disorder symptoms like binge eating

25:00 and tying self worth to weight by age 14. Almost one in four kids who have a smartphone at age 12 reported at least one eating disorder symptoms, compared to fewer than one in six kids who didn't have a smartphone by age 12. A report in the Journal of the American Medical association claims unsupervised smartphone use at an earlier age may be increasing exposure to appearance focused social media during puberty, a time when kids are especially vulnerable. The authors say sleep deprivation due to screen use could also alter appetite and emotions.

25:33 They say these findings all support the idea of delaying the age when kids ah, are first given smartphones Big news in the world of tech this week, with Australia's federal government again trying to control what you can see online with its latest 1984 Big Brother star legislation. And Microsoft's released a new update for its Windows 11 operating system, consolidating lots of previous updates you may have missed. With the details, we're joined by Technology editor Alex Ah Sahar of Royt from

26:02Jonathan Nally Tech Advice Live just launched version

26:05 26H2. Now. Rather than any spectacular new features, this is a lightweight, cumulative update and it consolidates a year's worth of feature rollouts. Basically, it's for those people who've been delaying their upgrades for whatever reason. One of the things that you could do with the old Windows 10 and earlier taskbar was you could move it up, down, left or right anywhere on the screen that you wanted. So this taskbar flexibility has returned. You can now also toggle a smaller size taskbar option. They've redesigned the Start menu again. You've got sizing controls, we've got smaller versus larger displays.

26:38 You've got different sections for pinned recent, which is typical recommended, and all apps. And you can even have a category or grid views and you can hide your name or profile picture for a cleaner presentation. But I know people who still use the Start11 app from Stardoc Software, which actually returns the old Start menu back. You can have the Windows XP Start menu, the Windows 95 Start menu, the Windows 7 Start menu. I mean, I know people who just prefer that and I put it on for them and they like it. I mean, if you've been getting automatic updates all this time and haven't sort of purposefully paused for any length of time, then you probably have most of those updates already. This is just sort of one big

27:15 consolidation now.

27:16Stuart Gary Uh, while I've got you new Legislation

27:18 introduced by Australia's Labour government will give the Communications Minister, Anika Wells, the power to quite literally censor and ban any online content that she doesn't like. Now, this is the second time the Albanese government's trying to push this, I think, unprecedented power through Parliament. They failed last time because, well, it blatantly violates freedom of speech. This is a common practice in socialist and fascist governments. But to me it sounds awfully like 1984's Big Brother. What say you?

27:45Jonathan Nally Absolutely. I mean, this has been a problem

27:48 not just with the Labour, socialist, you know, communist type governments, but Richard Alston of the Conservative Party in Australia. I mean, they were trying all sorts of Internet filters and things as well. So both sides of politics, the left and right, are, uh, wings of the same bird. And so, you know, government. The Uni Party. Yes, the Uni Party. And governments want control over their people. They want to stifle dissent.

28:09 And, you know, Anthony, uh, Albaneji, the current Prime Minister, was asked a couple of years back, you know, what he would do if he had unlimited power. And his response, which is effectively terrifying, is that he'd get rid of social media so that he couldn't be criticised. He's criticised the images of him looking like a clown or other unflattering images. And it's like, mate, you know the people that try and censor speech, the people that try and shut things down, they're never the good guys in history. Never the good guys.

28:33Stuart Gary That's Alex Zaharov, Roy from TechAdvice

28:36 Life. And this is Space Time. And that's the show for now. Space Time is available every Monday, Wednesday and Friday through bytes.com, soundcloud, YouTube, your favourite podcast download provider, and from spacetimewithstuartgarry.com spacetime's also broadcast through the National Science foundation on Science Zone Radio and on both iHeartradio and TuneIn radio. And you can help to support our show by visiting the Space Store for a range of promotional merchandising goodies, or by becoming a Space patron, which gives you access to triple episode commercial free versions of the show, as well as lots of bonus audio content which doesn't go to air, access to our exclusive Facebook group and other rewards. Just go to

29:37 spacetimewithstuartgarry.com for full details. You've been listening to Space Time with Stuart Gary. This has been another quality podcast production from bytes.com.