Green Beret to Civilian: Rod Graham's Journey After Special Forces

Welcome to Stories of Special Forces Operators Podcast. Listen to some of the bravest and toughest people on the planet share their stories. Sit back and enjoy.

Welcome back, everybody. We have another great guest. Green Beret Rod Graham. He's going to be talking to us today about his journey through Special Forces. By the way, if you want to learn more about him and his team, you can go over to Triple Nickel, triple-N-I-K-E-L.com. We interviewed a couple of weeks ago another Green Beret by the name of Ruben Ayala. He's also at triple-nickel.com, so if you want to check that out. You know what to do, folks.

Make sure to share, subscribe, hit that like button. You know we like it. Let's not waste any more time. Welcome to the show, Rod Graham. Welcome, Rod.

How are you? Pretty good. Thank you very much. Uh, thanks for having me.

Thank you very much, Rod. And thank you for your service. I didn't mention that when we met before the show, but I truly appreciate it. So Rod, I'm always curious what, what motivated you to become a green beret? You have a very fascinating story that we talked about after green berets. And so I'm really curious to see whatever got you into the green berets.

Yeah.

Uh, I was an infantry guy, and I had an awesome leader. I won't mention his name because I don't know what kind of job he's doing. But he was a really awesome, dynamic guy. And pretty much anything he'd done, he was successful. And I followed his footsteps. He went to be a.

Ranger and do great things. I wanted to be a ranger. So he was a.

Really squared away guy and he got promoted fast and, you know, he was in charge. So he really motivated me and that's what led me to become Green Beret.

Oh, interesting. So it wasn't anything like a lifelong dream or anything of that sort?

Oh, no, I'm from a small town called Regalwood, North Carolina, population of maybe 1,200.

Oh, wow.

Yes, very small, very small. I might be over embellishing the number there. But, you know, we are, you know, we're a small town.

We hunt fish.

And, you know, it's the skill craft that, you know, set me apart, you know, just, you know, being outdoors, you know, growing up in the woods. So being in the infantry and being outside and, you know, growing up as a kid working in the fields, you know, I'm I'm a 69, you know, I'm a little older than.

Ruben, those guys. So.

I grew up still working for my grandfather as a young kid in the fields and, you know, during the summertime after school, working in the fields for your money and for your school stuff. So my value of work was a little different. So when I got to the Army as an infantry guy, you know, it wasn't as tough as it seemed to be.

You know, it was, you know, it was the hard work, but.

You know, it's like I'm getting paid, you know, I'm getting paid, but I'm not in a field, you know, you know, with tobacco sticking to me, you know.

So it was it was a no brainer for me.

Did you say you were 69?

I was born in 69.

Oh, boy, I was going to say you look fabulous for 60.

Yeah, I was born. I was born in 69, 1969. So you still look great for 54 or 53. Yeah.

Yeah, I'll be 54 this year. So I'm a bit older than that. I think I'm maybe 10 years senior to 10 or seven years senior to Ruben and Chris and the guys on the team.

So the experiences are a little different.

You know, I guess I know I've asked this before. I know a lot of Green Berets will say the same thing. Rambo did have an influence. But did Rambo have an influence on you since you liked the outdoors so much? And a lot of that movie was outdoorsy.

Yeah, I seen Rambo. I knew of Rambo.

But once again, I was motivated by.

Money. I was motivated by being able to influence others.

I was motivated by the young guy, the senior guy who was in front of me.

He motivated me.

He was in my wedding. He was in my car when I got in a car accident. You know, he and I was, you know, we're you know, we're pretty close at the time. And he was just someone who I fed off. So for me, growing up as a kid, even though I was a rural kid, I never had the exposure of patriotism. I never had the exposure of a military military background.

I seen a.

I seen a friend of my best friend, my brother's best friend, Fletcher Smith. And he was in 82nd Airborne and he had a rayon. So one day I seen him and he looked like the coolest dude I ever seen in my life.

And he was an airborne ranger. You know, he was airborne.

So that's what I wanted to be, airborne infantry. And it was no problem becoming airborne infantry back at that time.

You know, I'm going to do– I'd like to get into a little bit more of the psychology of it. So if I get too personal, just let me know. But what sibling order are you in? Are you the oldest, the middle child, the youngest child?

I'm the youngest of seven.

The youngest of seven?

Yeah, I have an interesting story.

You know, there's currently– Like my parents, you know, they both are still well and moving pretty good.

You know, they're 85 and 80.

My dad's 85. My mom's 80. I'm pretty much I'm pretty much the those guys. Like I said, I'm somewhat of a primary care provider for my grandkids. Currently, I do a lot with them. I oversee some of their academics. I make sure they get in swim. I make sure they get in martial.

Arts and dance and all those extracurricular activities that I had.

Exposure to while I was in the Army. And that's what I credit a lot of older guys who I've seen in the Army, I've seen in the golf industry. I've been able to be a good grandfather. by means of looking at other guys, you know. So just Army taught me great values, man, great things. And I really appreciate everything that I got from the Army and Special Forces.

I mean, it elevated me and it makes me responsible. You know, it has.

Me able to hold down a little responsibility, which, you know, we all should be able to do.

Yeah, something that society is lacking a lot of.

Yes, sir.

How many years difference is between you and the sixth and the sibling just right above you, oldest one? Not the oldest one, but the one right above you, the number six.

This is funny, Carlos. Are you sitting down? I'm looking at you, but I'm going to ask you, are you sitting down?

Yes, sir.

My mom had.

Seven children, and she was pregnant for 10 years in a row.

10 years in a row? Yeah. God bless her.

All right. I wish I knew. I wish I knew all the years, but I know my oldest is 65.

I won't say it's a girl, boy, whatever, because they'll probably be mad. So the oldest is 65.

Then there's a 63, a 62, 59.

No, 65, 64, 65.

62, 59, 56.

Yeah, and then, yeah, we're right behind each other. I think I'm missing someone in the 60s, you.

Know, but we're right. We're like year, year, year, year, year right behind each other. I mean, 16 months, you know, and one is closest, you know, 12 months.

It's amazing. Cause the reason I asked, I think you're only the second one I've ever had that was, uh, not a only child or a firstborn child. And you're definitely the second only of the youngest. That's interesting.

Yeah. I, um, my entire life was, uh, based off, you know, um, my brothers and siblings and I, we were, we were close, but not extremely close. And, uh, I'm kind of that glue to the family. Um, I, and I want to say that, you know, um, And my family, they would agree. But I always thought that I was the youngest of seven, the only one that went in the military. I had an older brother that went into military, but it's very short lived, very, very short lived. Patriotic, went in the military and did 28 years, seven months, three days. Um, so I thought that, you know, my time in the army was, you know, when Afghanistan came along and, you know, um, in the Panama, you.

Know, um, there's a storm, there's a shield, you know, did all that.

So I tour my watch, you know, that was going to be the destiny of me.

I never I never expected to live over the age of 40.

I always thought I would bite it at war, but it didn't happen. So I always carry that with me, you know, but I had faith. But, you know, I just had a feeling that because of the youngest of seven, you know, I thought that's how your story was going to be.

But, you know, it didn't. I'm glad it didn't.

Amazing. Now, I can't wait to ask you some more questions. I know how you ended your career and where you went from it is so different from anybody I ever heard. But it makes sense because I hear you're the youngest. I'm the youngest. And we have similar characteristics. So it's kind of fascinating to see it. I wonder how much that applies. Obviously not everything falls into sibling order, but it is interesting to see that. Before we get to that, let me go back a little bit to your Green Beret days. So do you remember your first deployment?

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I went down in 1998 in Venezuela with a really great team sergeant.

I still remember how, throughout his initial BMR, if you know, you know, if you don't, you know.

But he was a pretty squared away guy at the time and still today, I'm sure.

Very interesting.

I have a great story, a story that only the guys that was on that team and on that deployment.

Could tell.

And this is one of the stories I really pride myself with, that I was at the inauguration of Hugo Chavez.

With a suit and MP5, you know.

So it was pretty cool to be on the stage, maybe 30, 40 foot from the incoming president, Hugo Chavez, back in 1998.

Oh, wow, that's crazy. Yeah, that was very interesting.

We was there doing FID, of course, and my very first deployment.

And it was interesting, all the things that happened in.

Venezuela that that deployment, you know, I wish I could go down the line of it. But, you know, that was the most unique thing that still sits with me today that I've done that I had no idea at the time, you know. when I was there, all I know is, you know, I was in country and, you know, we were doing fit and we ended up being there at the time of the inauguration.

So we was a part of it.

So it must've been incredible excitement. I remember despite everything he did, he was really popular at that time.

Very popular. It was insane. Yeah.

And I really think it was one of the most fascinating things I have ever seen in my life other than the Harley Davidson bike show at Chili Cafe, Ohio.

Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask. That is the most extreme thing I ever seen in my life.

Now, I talked to Ruben. Now, Ruben, if I remember correctly, I think it's Puerto Rican descent.

Yes. Yes.

Do you have any Puerto Rican in you or what ethnicity are you?

No.

Because I know we were going to originally talk about that.

Yeah, I'm African American.

Do you know what country in Africa?

No, I'm not one of those guys who go deep into my ancestry. However, I do know my dad has a official Native American card. So definitely, definitely we shared the bloodline of Native Americans. So my family, my great-great-grandma that I know of, Babe Graham, she was Native American solely.

But I never run and say, hey, I'm Native American.

I just make it easy for myself, being that my mother and my father both was African-Americans. Um, so, um, and then at the time it was like, you know, some folks were, you know, utilizing their, uh, culture in there to try to get, you know, um, advantages and whatnot.

So, yes, there's a few of those out there.

Yes, yes, yes, indeed.

Let me ask you, let me ask you this. I know originally we were supposed to have three and we were going to talk a Was that something you encountered during your days as a Green Beret, the lack of? Did it make a difference at all? Did anybody care?

At the time, like I tell a lot of folks that I run across, at the time, everything I encountered in special ops, I thought that was a– You know, that was a routine for everyone.

You know, I thought that was just a rite of passage.

Never, never in a million years, you know, did I expect, you know, guys will, you know, things were racially motivated all the time. But now that I look back, you know, and how things were, for example, I recall a guy who I thought was a friend and he probably still called me a friend right now. But I watched him march kids in who was going through this course.

Because I worked in the White House.

I mean, I worked in the committee where we were putting kids through a special forces course. And he would always bring in, I was in the training section. And this guy would always bring guys in every cycle to recycle guys. And it would always be maybe nine to 13 guys that they bring in to recycle. And for some reason, it would be all minorities. all minorities, maybe one white guy. And I recall this white guy for, you know, we were being meetings and he'd be like, hi, black guys, minorities, they.

Just can't act.

So, you know, at the time, the stigma, you know, it didn't dawn on me because I was so in the action of being, you know, a Green Beret, you know, and my mindset was, yeah, maybe.

They can't, you know, maybe they can't act. Maybe they can't.

You know, add, you know, so fast forward, you know, my whole life change post George Floyd.

You know, I really started reading.

I really started looking at the history of of things that transform and that's happened in the past.

And it makes a difference with me now.

I'm from Wilmington, North Carolina. The closest city to my area is Wilmington, North Carolina. And I grew up in this area all of my childhood, never knowing anything about the Wilmington Massacre of 1898, where the city of Wilmington was a. Uh african-american run city pretty much uh officials um senators you know ran had a newspaper and 300 black folks was murdered and massacred and thrown in the river you know the cape field river so um what i learned of all this you know is just started making me really dig deep and look at some things and how things transpired in my Special Forces career. And right to today, it's a lot of friends that I shared a lot with.

And I remember guys doing things to me. And Ruben and I, we were on a Special Forces team together and You know, we remember guys, you know, wearing, you know, stars and bars, you know, the stars and bars.

And wearing those, you know, out of the fence.

And Ruben and I was in charge and we couldn't say anything because it was allowed.

So, you know, it was.

You know, pretty much. You know, it was diversity, you know. you know, black guys got, you know, things, you know, like, you know, I remember in, in ranger school, you know, Hey, he comes a weak swimmer, you know? So that, that's, that's the way of, you know, saying it is a black guy because most of the minorities in ranger school were weak swimmers. So it's just all these little things that this, this, that transpired to me that really, um, sets with me now, you know, like guys who I thought were friends with MLK day was James Earl Ray day to them, you know?

So I, um.

Those things now that you know i have biracial granddaughters and in and i have to set a precedence and you know and i have to tell them and show them what's right but at the same time in my mind all these things transpired to me so it's like you know all these things happen to me so it's like how do i you know um you know how do i put all this together you know how do I do my daily, you know, my daily, you know, go about daily, you know, knowing everything that I've, you know, that happened, you know, um, And these guys, I mean, it's just a continuing thing, you know, because now I'm in the golf industry. So now I'm in another job that's dominated by, you know, white men, which, you know, is the same things, the same patterns of things I'm

seeing all over again.

So it bleeds right into from....

Anything that's, you know, the Army was dominated by white males. The golf industry is dominated by white males. And to me, you know, I don't know the diversity. They just don't see it is, you know, a lot of guys that I've worked with in the past and had, you know, great relationships within the past.

You know, they understand, you know. Um, but for the.

Most part, um, you know, guys just, um, it's not about, you know, doing the right thing. And what I mean by right thing is, um, being fair, you know, and I know this is a crazy word fair because, you know, there's nothing in the world is fair. But guys in the Army, guys in high-level sports, guys who go out and work hard and bust their ass and put time in, is deserving of the same opportunity as everyone. And whether it's in the golf industry, whether it's in the Army, whether it's in transportation whatever is happening you know it's just that that's all I guess minorities you know that's all folk any folk you know who work hard you know just want an opportunity to prove themselves and show themselves and it seems that you know a lot of

minorities you know get cut off before they can you know have that opportunity you know so.

If I can, let me ask you, do you, how would I phrase this? Do you see a lot of African-Americans or did you have friends that were interested in ever getting in special forces and would you recommend it?

Yes. I, every, every kid that, that I run through and, and, and I see, I see kids all over to, you know, Wilmington, North Carolina, special forces is, is a, It's a.

Small, small, small numbers, a small percentile.

And when I see someone who said they want to be special ops, I give them a lowdown. You know, everything from physical fitness, you know, hey, I think it's the best thing in the world.

I really do. I think it's, you know, I would do it all over again. I would do the army all over again. I appreciate the Army.

I just think that, you know, it's just folks that's in positions of power, you know, and will never change. You know, we won't see it in this generation. It'll be changed, but not this generation. Because, you know, what's happening is the teaching's at home. You know, people are being still taught hatred at home now. That will remain for this generation. You and I won't see that, Carlos.

It'll always be there, unfortunately. I get the funny feeling. It'll always be there. Let me ask you this. I know when I talked to Ruben about it and Will, he's Cuban descent. That wasn't part of our thing. We weren't really ever thinking about special forces and ruben and puerto rican same thing it's not kind of their gig a certain that certain countries or ethnicities that just don't focus on things like that do you find that to be the case i mean i know you're not the whole representative of all the african-american community but did you see that in your experience where yeah i don't think i had anybody else in wilmington or anywhere else in north new orleans that was really interested at all.

Yeah um well.

I have, you know, in my area of where I'm from, Wilmington, North Carolina down here, I know it's a couple buddies that's from Special Forces 7th Group that moved here.

Yeah, yeah.

Other than that, I know of no one that's in Special Forces that's from this area.

Yeah, I don't have, no, I don't have anybody. If I want to hang out with Special Forces buddies, I have to drive an hour. hour and a half to Fort Bragg. Yeah, it's not bad at all.

I knew of one other Special Forces and he was my father's classmate.

Oh, wow. Yeah, Mr. Shag Graham. He was a Green Beret during Vietnam.

Era and he and I were the only two African American Special Forces guys that I knew of from here to Fayetteville. He's very special. He passed away a few years ago. I don't run into him. I don't see him. I guess we're a little different.

I want to switch gears. We're going to head over to your very unique exit of the Green Berets because you did have a unique exit. By the way, folks, again, check out Triple Nickel. triple n i k e l dot com because uh most of the time i usually hear a lot of challenges getting out i'm trying to they haven't said this directly but you can kind of tell they're trying to keep some aspect of that life alive whether it be training individuals through gun training or consulting or something with all the skill sets that you developed in that world um You went on a totally different course unless you actually used some of the soft skills over at golf. Maybe you did. I don't know.

Yes.

Every day.

You do?

Every day.

I use special forces skills every day at the golf course. I win hearts and minds.

There you go.

That's it, Carl.

Tell us. You said we talked before the show, which is really cool. Your mindset was when you got out of special forces, that was it. That's the end of Rod.

Yeah. Yeah, that was my life.

Because personally, I knew I was from small. I put it in my head. I'm from a small town, Riga Wood, North Carolina. I knew I was coming back home when I retired. You know, I was like, well, you know, I'm not going to go to. someplace and start over and move to Florida or whatever because I think Wilmington, North Carolina offers the best things in the world for me.

I have property here already. Um, that made it a no brainer as well. I'm close to my parents. I knew I was going to be the oversee of my parents. So I was like, well, I just got to find something, you know, to take care of me, you know, uh, get me.

Some nice pension, move back to North Carolina and, and, uh, you know, you know, live life.

And, um, so I retired and once I retired, I relaxed for a year and just say, Hey, I'm just going to, Just fish, hunt, and figure it out. Because I wasn't no carpenter. I was 18 Bravo. I was a weapons guy. And then I became a Zulu. Did the Fox thing and Zulu. So I had no interest of being a builder. I had no interest of being a gun guy. I had no interest of doing any of that shit. I was done. I was like, I don't want to ever wake up cold again. I don't want to ever be miserable again. I don't want to ever be shot at again. I don't want to ever deal with any of this high intensity again. So I thought about it and I was like, man, what do I really love? I was like, I love being outside and I love golf. I really like golf. And I say, well,

I want to be a superintendent at the golf course. You're outside, you're away from folks. You don't get the you know, you're I'm by myself. You know, I want I'm, you know, didn't want to be, you know, excluded.

And to me, being at the.

Golf courses, it gives you a sense of it gives me a sense of security.

Not only is it not a lot of violence at the golf course. Hey, not a lot. There's not too much over there. There's no violence at the golf course, A. B., and there's pretty much there's calmness.

There's calmness at the golf course, you know, and I feel secure there. And the golf course I work at is a private golf course and is gated, you know, so that gives me an extra level of security. Um, and I didn't know that at a time, you know, God works in mysterious ways. So, um, when I went and, you know, said that I wanted to become a golf superintendent, I went to the golf academy of America and murder beat South Carolina for two years. Um, I drove from Wilmington to murder beach, which was a hour drive, a little sacrifice.

I did that for two years.

I started working at, uh, Yeah, I started working at a golf course there in Myrtle Beach for a while. And I just got experience working in and outside of the golf course and.

Grabbed a couple of jobs, not one, but two jobs here locally in Leland, North Carolina. And then I narrowed it down.

Once I become a busy grandfather that I am now. You know, my grandkids was born and, you know, I was working full jobs, you know, full time. I was working, you know, three golf courses at one time to gather as much experience as possible. That's what green berets do.

Once I gathered all the experience and found out that, you know, hey, golf is great.

But it's a lot of folks that's very intense about golf. You know, they think golf is, you know, and I felt, you know, for me to be a golf professional, to be in charge in the golf world would send me back into post-traumatic stress disorder because I didn't really want folks calling me in the middle of the night about golf.

I didn't want, because I see guys who are in charge and, you know, when you have, you know, 300, 200 people upset at you about the grass not being grown right or about, you know, about their ball was, you know, and my mentality is many, many more things that's so important to me.

And so I just said to myself that I didn't want to be in charge at the golf course. I just wanted to be a worker.

I just want to do some lessons, you know, learn the game and just be a great guy in the industry. So that's what I do now. I work part time. Once again, I'm with my kids, my grandkids, you know, three days a week. Um, so, uh, that, that keeps me level and, and the folks at the golf course, you know, it's, it's just, um, it's, it's intense.

It's very intense. It's more intense than I ever thought.

You know, um, you, you, you wouldn't imagine in the intensity of, of, of folks at a, at a golf course, but it gets there.

It really does.

It doesn't surprise me. Anytime you have a sport, once you get to the certain level, it becomes pretty, uh, as you would say, pretty intense.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then you got folks who, you know, when you're working at a private golf course, everyone is entitled, you know, it's a lot of entitlement, a lot of entitlement, man.

Yes. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. That.

Yeah. Let me, what's interesting is the direction you took and hopefully we can bring it back to, to continue to explore it because I see a certain piece in you that I haven't always seen. and other individuals in the soft community. Some have other challenges as well. I mean, the experiences that they've encountered, of course, could be different than yours. But it seems like you gravitated towards sports, and I haven't heard that before, which is fascinating because it gives you a little bit of the intensity. If you want it, you can have it, obviously. And not the superintendent type of intensity, but the intensity of the sport itself. And at the same time, it gives you this nice, out in the green grass, which we know

studies have shown can help you relax and calm down your mood. You're socializing with individuals. You're connecting, which also helps you. And I know you said it was something you didn't even think about, those benefits, did you?

No, I didn't.

I really miss a lot of golf programs out there for guys with PTSD.

Oh, wow.

You go, yeah, it's, it's, uh, a lot of folks, uh, veterans golf, um, a lot of veterans golf programs out there and, and, and folks, you know, they, it is, it really does a lot for guys who are, who, who, who we, cause I'm a PTSD guy myself, you know, it gets you, uh, it gets you away, give you calmness, you know, and study the, um, you know, the high intensity, the, you know, hustle bustle is what I call it, you know, is, is really a common thing.

And you're able to play and talk with guys who experienced and been through things that, that you've had. And it's just a, it's a, uh, place.

Where you grow, you know, you learn a lot, you know, you talk to other guys and, and, you know, some of the most, um, the best conversations I've had in my entire life has been on the golf course.

Um, getting great advice.

I mean, um, like I said, um, you know, I've seen a lot of diversity in my life and, but one of the things I can say that I've, I've learned how to be a grandfather from the golf course.

Um, the, yeah, because interesting.

Um, my, my father, uh, My grandfather, you know, and in my culture, we don't grandfather very well. So I never I never experienced or seen how to grandfather. So I got that from guys at the golf course, you know, being around older gentlemen, watch what they do, you know, how they do, you know, deal with their grandkids, especially if they allowed the time. So, you know, I felt that, you know. that was what grandfather's supposed to do. And, and, you know, it's like this past week I took my grandkids and we were down at Myrtle beach for a whole week for spring break. You know, um, those, those, those are things, you know, to take my grandkids to school once a week and, you know, twice a week to make sure, you know, I get a chance to

talk with them every week. You know, um, those are the things that I've learned from the golf course, you know, how to communicate with your family and, and things like that.

So, and that's being around senior men. That's being around.

Men who respects their family and just does the right thing. And I appreciate those guys. You know, I wish I could name them all off, you know, but, you know, I can't, you know, so.

But they're great guys.

Grandchildren are very lucky, Rod, that's for sure. They'll never forget these moments. I know they won't. Grandparents can be very special.

Yes, man.

I have two two granddaughters and I adore them so much. You know, I think, you know, more than anything, I want them to be West Point grads. I want them to be, you know, generals in the Army. But I know that's not going to happen. You know, dreams do come true. However, you know, we'll see.

We'll see.

I don't know which direction they're going to go. One of the reasons I highlight it is because for other special forces guys out there, there's a lot of different ways to handle things. There's a lot of different interventions to help with PTSD and sports, exercise, things of that nature. Again, engaging with other individuals in that environment, I think is a great opportunity for other soft guys to say, you know what, never thought about that. That might be something for me to take up, whether it's golf, jujitsu, baseball, tennis, whatever it is. There's something different about it. There's just something different about it.

And golf is challenging.

And to me, that same is not as physically challenging as special forces by no means. But that gum, that thing, man, this golf is it's a beast. You know, you watch those guys, you know, every Saturday and Sunday. And those those young cats, man, they teed up and they teed up for millions of dollars. And they do it at a high level, man.

But it's an intensity that, yeah, it's in between the nine inches. You know, it's in between the nine inches. Yeah, I was a sniper. That's the only reason I know it's nine inches, you know.

Ear to ear, baby. I have enough trouble with, what do they call that? Miniature golfing. I have enough problems with that, so I'm not even going to bother with the real golfing. Rod, I can't thank you enough for the time you took with us today and spent with us and sharing your stories. I truly appreciate it.

I appreciate you having me, Carlos.

Thank you, everyone, for listening. Hey, you know what to do. Share, subscribe, hit that like button. If you know anybody in the soft community, if you're yourself in the soft community, I highly recommend. Check out some sports if you haven't done that. Might be a great environment for you.

Green Beret to Civilian: Rod Graham's Journey After Special Forces

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