Behind the Scenes Minis: Pistols and Candy Corn

0:01 Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio. Hello and happy Friday. I'm Holly Frey. And I'm Tracy V. Wilson. We talked about the Red Barn murder this week. Yep. Which has been on my list for a million years. Mm-hmm. Listen, I know it's grisly, but I love talking about weird historical murders. I just love knowing that anything we talk about today, you know, when, like, horrific crimes happen and people are like, humans have really fallen apart. I'm like, we were kind of always this way.

0:38 This is not new behavior. There is a wacky part of this story that was... not important enough to include in the narrative of the murder and its outcome, but is wackadoodle, which is that between the time that the verdict was given and the sentence of death was issued by the judge, there was a little bit of confusion because I think it was the judge wanted to see Corder's pistols But this is one of those instances where old school law was a little nutty. And the investigator, Lee, had been entitled to take possession of those pistols when he apprehended them. And like once the case was laid out and they didn't need them anymore as evidence, allegedly. Yeah.

1:32 And then he, this is in the Curtis thing, Lee, the officer, claimed them as his property in consequence of a promise which he had received from the prisoner when he first apprehended him. And when, of course, he had a right to dispose of his property. But then a member of the court working for the sheriff's office was told to take possession of them. And he was like, all right, give them to me. And Lee was like, no.

1:58 This is all weird. A whole weird thing. That's wild. He initially was like, I don't have to comply with this. I own those. Those are my personal property now. Yeah. But he did eventually turn them over. But it's just like one of the kookiest, like if that happened in a case today, everybody would be like, what is going on? But, you know, here's the thing. The other thing that's interesting and not related to anything grisly, or I guess something's grisly, but not in any kind of immediate way, is when this was happening in terms of the legal system in Britain.

2:34 Because there was not, like, the London Metropolitan Police did not exist yet. But only by, like, a sliver of time. There were lots of calls for a formal police force. But at the time, it was all either people that did not get paid that were, like, kind of almost, like, assigned public servants because it was an honorable thing to do.

3:01 Or there was a private police force, but they operated kind of like a company of their own. And so it's just an interesting time for so much of this to be playing out in a very high profile way involving multiple jurisdictions, including a person who does identify themselves as a member of, as a London police officer. It's just an interesting kind of moment in time for all of that. I just find that very, very fascinating. Here's another thing that I'm curious about. Okay. Because it came up in the plot of the whole thing and in the telling of the story and all of the information that we had that William was really hell-bent on filling in the well. But, like, Mariah's body was found in the floor. Okay. And so I'm guessing that that's where

3:56 they put the baby? That's the only thing I can think of that would be that Like, we got to fill this in before I leave town. Like, it's the only thing I can think of that would make sense, but it never, I didn't find, it could be in one of these accounts because there's a lot of writing about him. It could have been addressed in some way, but everything I read said, we don't know where the, we never found out where the baby was buried. And the well thing kind of sputters out kind of the same way the, um, investigation of where the baby might have been sputtered out. So that's the only thing that I could put together in my head. And that's supposition on my part. I don't know. It just seemed like,

4:34 why would he be so intent on that if there was nothing to hide in the well? And that's the only thing I could think of. Yeah. Because the pistols are accounted for, even though there's arguing over who owns them. Right. Yeah, what a weaselly dude, though. Just what a villain. Yeah. Yeah. What a sad story in general. Oh, it really, really is.

4:56 I mean, it's one of those things where there are a lot of newspapers of the day comment on like, oh, everybody agrees Mariah was super smart. You know, she was she really if she had had more advantages, she could have, you know, had anything in the world. She could have done anything with her life. So it becomes a sad story about that and kind of like the difficulty of upward mobility in, you know, a hierarchical class structure. But also just the idea of the really gross, you know, sociopathic, like, lying to her parents and concocting whole kooky stories is part of why I think this one stays so compelling.

5:41 You know, it's like any Netflix documentary about true crime today. But it's, yeah, it's terribly sad. And I... I do like it's one of the rare ones, you know, where the villain gets comeuppance, but it still stinks. His wife, by the way, continued to visit him in prison right up to the end. Like, she kind of stuck by him. Yeah.

6:05 Which is wild to me. That's a whole other flavor of wild. Yeah. But we know that people do that anyway. Right. But she was also a victim, whether she was cognizant of that or not. Right. Just one person with a lack of morality can really mess up a bunch of people's lives anyway famous famous case yuck but also interesting and also I just love that you know here we are how many how many years almost 200 years later with a oh we didn't know about this gross part yeah yeah I have I have many thoughts about that that are horrifying okay Just because we have been to a large-scale tannery when we were in Morocco. Yeah. And we know that whole business is not delightful. No. So it makes me think that doctor was a ghoul. Probably.

7:03 But there are also other books bound in skin. Oh, yes, for sure. This is not an outlier in history. Sometimes libraries know that they're there. Sometimes it's like it's discovered, oh, this is actually human skin. And then there has to be a whole conversation of now what? Like, now what do we do with this book as having learned that it was bound in human skin and we didn't know before? Yeah, in this case, they seem to have just been incorporated into the exhibit about him. Yeah. I'm sure with whatever, you know, careful preservation and safety and health precautions taken that might be involved. Sure. There was a funny, if you can put a funny on it, one of the news articles reporting that particular discovery, the way it was

7:54 phrased made it sound like The ear that is part of the museum's thing was part of one of the book covers. Oh, no. And I had that moment when I first read it. I'm like, what ding dong didn't recognize what that was? But then I kept picking it apart. And then I was looking at a picture like that museum has like one photograph of the thing. And I'm like, I think that's the ear. I don't think it was.

8:21 I see. This is weird grammar and punctuation that's made this a little unclear. But I did have a moment of. Right. It was kooky. Anyway, Halloween. Yeah. Yeah. I promise. I think it's the next one. One of my remaining Halloweens is really fun. Promise that. Oh, good. They won't all be grizzly. Although, again, it's a time for grizzly. We talked about candy bars this week. Yeah, very exciting. for an installment of eponymous foods, which was very fun. I have so many kooky notes about this one because there were just kooky things that came up while I was doing research. One that's really interesting. We kept saying throughout our discussion of like the Mars family history, like, Oh, it's hard to verify this one. Or like, Oh, there's

9:15 not much about this. That family has been purposely, uh, kind of secretive. And I'm reluctant to even put it that way because it sounds like they're cloak and daggery. I think they just want to maintain their privacy. But they, like, didn't even give interviews until the 90s. Oh, wow. Like, they just, you know, so all of that stuff that probably would have been documented if they were more into kind of putting themselves out there has just not been.

9:39 So that's part of why that happened. But what started happening in the 90s, particularly after Forrest died, is that, you know, a lot more discussion happened about the family. And there are some very interesting articles about Forrest. One, I kind of laugh because he was 60 when he finally took over the family business. And part of me was like, was he going to retire if he didn't get this? And then he just kept working forever. But a lot of them that talk about how Forrest was super successful, like his obituaries, write-ups about him, talk about how hugely successful he was even though he was the son of an unsuccessful candy maker. And I'm like, that's not accurate. Your dad made a lot of money. He

10:24 built a whole farm. But I just wonder if some of that bitterness did not carry forward and so Forrest got to write a little bit of the narrative about Frank's life, which makes me chuckle. There was a headline about Frank Mars' death that made me laugh so hard. And I know it's not funny and the person died, but this is just one of those things because you and I have both been copy editors, where I was like, is that the best way to say it? Is that the best way to put that? And they read, Frank C.

10:59 Mars is victim of death. And I'm like, well, I mean, of the Grim Reaper, sure, I guess. But like, death is the outcome, not the event. Like, I just, I was like, this is weird journalism. That's funny. Victim of death. There was also a very kooky lawsuit that I stumbled across in the midst of all of that, right after Frank had died, where, like, apparently he and Ethel had hired a woman to decorate their home, which was quite large, and they had essentially, like, set her up in her own apartment that was nearby, and they had promised to pay her a bunch of money, and she kind of lived in style, alongside them for a bit but when frank died like all of that ended and she tried to sue for breach of contract and i don't know

11:52 whatever came of that but it was wacky i just was like man you know wealthy people get a lot of people suing them frank allegedly gave out full-size candy bars at halloween every year yeah at a time when not everybody was trick-or-treating in the u.s so i think it's interesting that he like was making it very worthwhile for the kids that did right Did you know that there was, in England, briefly, a version of the Mars bar that was pineapple flavored? Oh, no. You made a face, but that sounds great to me. I like pineapple a lot, but something about that combination is... Bring it on. I might would bite into it and go, okay, that's delicious.

12:36 But hearing about it, I'm like, I think it sounds delicious. Pineapple flavored nougat, or is it? Pineapple instead of caramel? I don't know. Now I want to try to make one. We'll see. I also just thought it was interesting that all of these candy companies in the U.S. were kind of developing simultaneously, and they all had crossover, and it didn't seem to be particularly... conflict-laden. Right. They all seem to know each other. Hey, your dad knows my dad.

13:04 We kind of grew up together. You want to make a candy together? Hey, I want to go start my own company. Cool, cool, cool. Let's work this out together. Like, it just wasn't the same as other industries where we see, like, cutthroat. Right, right. It was like everybody was kind of like, all right, let's... Clearly, we're all doing fine. People love candy. Let's keep making it. Yeah.

13:25 I just like that. Here's the last thing I will say, and it is... As I frequently do, a confession of my own stupidity. Okay. Okay, so we know that Frank Mars lived in Tacoma for a while. I used to live right by there when I was a kid. I know what people call people that live in Tacoma. However, I came across, I don't remember if it was an obituary or something else, that they described him as a word that is spelled... T-A-C-O-M-A-N. Taco Man. And I said, Taco Man? Did he sell tacos at one point? Well, I obviously mentally read it as Taco Man just now.

14:16 It's Tacoman, and people call them that, but my brain was like, Taco Man, I'm going to find this taco business. I was so excited about a secret side business selling delicious tacos. Anyway, he didn't sell tacos. Now I want some tacos. That was just my fever drink. When I realized it, I was like, Holly, you utter ding-dong. Yeah.

14:38 You know what this word is. You've seen it in print before. Not in a while, to be fair, but I was just like, man, maybe I need some tacos to fix my brain. I don't know. That sounds good. Candy also sounds good. Candy, yeah. I have that thing where I usually describe myself as having more of like a butter tooth than a sweet tooth. However... A bag of Reese's is not safe with me. No, they're so good.

15:07 I cannot buy them for Halloween. Because I will eat them all before any child comes to the door. I have to be very careful and judicious about when these purchases take place. Sometimes I make my husband hide them from me, which is usually successful because I figure out where they are. Just because I... Like a guppy, I will eat until I'm sick and then be like, just one more. Come on, just one more. Even though I feel like garbage. Yeah. There are some things that I will get Patrick to like squirrel away somewhere because I know that I will eat the whole bag and that I will then feel very bad. And then I won't have the candy anymore and I'll be sad. Right? My impulse control around a Reese's cup is not there. Yeah.

15:50 It's just not there. They're delicious. They're the best one. Of all these mentioned today, at least for me, they're so good. My one that I really just can't control myself with is not one that we mentioned today. It is a thing that is only around sometimes, it seems like. And they are Hershey Kisses that are filled with cherry cordial flavor. We do not have the same taste in candies. No, that's just fine. I love the white chocolate Hershey's Kisses.

16:20 Don't come for me. I know white chocolate isn't technically chocolate, but we call it that. I love those. And I love, love, love a Cadbury cream egg. Oh, same. Same. I like it Halloween when they do Cadbury scream eggs. Yeah, I haven't seen those in a store in a while here. But the first time I ever saw them, I got so excited because it had been an only Easter thing for so long. I just lost it. Yeah, we also didn't talk about in the show, we mentioned that when Forrest went and started his company in England, he made the bars a little sweeter, that like candy in Britain is different. And of course, that's where Cadbury is from.

17:01 But when we went a couple of years ago, we were in London and it was Brian's first time there. And like the way we destroyed little corner shops, just being like at one point, He just asked them, can I buy a case? Do you have a case in the back that I can buy to take home? Yeah. I forget what it was. It might have been like a cookie butter Twix or something like that. Oh, that sounds good. Very good. Yeah. Yeah. I just remember that episode of The Simpsons where they go to London and they are having chocolate. And I think it's one of the sales ladies that says like, be careful, children, the chocolate here is sweeter than you're used to. And then they just did like a, you know, kind of an addiction montage of the kids losing their minds. Anyway, candy. Yeah. Delicious.

17:49 So good. I got my candy corn today because candy corn, much maligned. I know it's not for everybody. Also one of my favorites that I cannot be trusted with. I will eat a whole bag of candy corn. And then I will drive to the store and get more candy corn. Yeah. Anyway, as we said in the end of that episode, if you go trick-or-treating, I hope you get full bars the whole time. I hope you get the most delicious stuff.

18:14 And I hope that everything is yummy and everybody's cool to you. I feel like trick-or-treating has fallen off a bit. I know some neighborhoods and communities are finding alternate ways to kind of have that experience. So however you do it. However you do Halloween, the most fun day of the year. I hope it is an absolute joy. If you don't do Halloween, that is also cool. I hope you have a great weekend doing whatever it is you do that delights you. We will be back here on Monday with a brand new episode. And we will also be back tomorrow with a classic. Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

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