Episode 372

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences.

Listener discretion is advised.

I don't know his life anymore. I am no longer a part of it.

He made that perfectly clear when he decided to sleep with my sister.

On the morning of October 13th, 2021, Jason Schaefer is halfway through his mail delivery route in Longmont, Colorado. It's a more recent subdivision of oversized symmetrical homes sitting close together on small lots, much like the rest of America. Jason drives slowly from box to box, He's been at it since early that morning. So, after starting his route, Jason stops for a few minutes to see his live-in girlfriend, Rosa, as he frequently does during the day. Jason's son is at school. Rosa leaves for work. And Jason goes back to his route. It's the same old, same old. Stop the truck, open the door, step out, sort the mail.

The door stays open behind him, and the truck beeps at him, On and off, all day. Jason is close to the mailbox when the first loud pop rings out. There's no time to question what it is. Whether it's a car backfiring, a construction hammer, or something else. The force hits his body. Before realizing what's happening, there's more.

Songlot 911, address of the emergency. Yes, hi, I'm at 2005 Sicily Circle. I need an ambulance. Our post office guy was just shot. I heard four shots, and he's down. There's a FedEx guy checking on him right now. I am not. I can go there. Okay, thank you. Yeah, I need to know what happened to him.

Jason goes down beside the passenger side of his mail truck, his body falling partly into the road. his head near the curb. He's unconscious. Blood gushes from his mouth, and his face is disfigured. A huge, deep gash sits above the right eye, and a bullet hole pierces his cheek just under the left eye. Other wounds are visible too, one on his upper right chest, another on the middle left of his back. Envelopes are strewn all over the road.

The truck is still there, of course, and The door is still open. The truck's beeping rings through the air in this residential community.

Is he breathing? Yes, he is breathing. He is breathing. Please send an ambulance. Okay, ma'am, I am sending them. I need you to answer the questions that I have. Where is he bleeding from? Ma'am, where is he bleeding from? He's bleeding out of his mouth. Okay. He's bleeding out of his.

Mouth.

He was shot. Can you guys tell where he was shot? Can you tell where he was shot? Did anyone witness this? I don't know if anybody saw exactly. We saw someone run. We heard four shots. Okay, which way did the person run? Down Renaissance.

Witnesses at the scene are still trying to figure out what happened and if this guy is going to make it. But they also describe seeing another man flee the scene.

Okay, what was that person wearing? A hoodie. Blue mask. Blue mask. Yeah, I couldn't identify him. I just saw a backside of a man running away after four shots. Is he conscious? Is he breathing? Does somebody have pressure on a wound? Can we find a wound? I'm honestly afraid to touch him. Okay, if he is injured and he's been shot, somebody needs to touch him because we need to know what's going on. I don't think he's breathing anymore. Okay, we're going to need to do CPR if he's not breathing. Are you outside?

I am.

You're able to do CPR? Can I talk to somebody who's willing to do CPR? Can anybody do CPR on him?

Oh, gosh.

There's only me and my neighbor, and I don't think he's breathing anymore. Okay, is there anyone there who is willing to do CPR? I know it doesn't seem like he's breathing, but I need somebody to get close enough to him to confirm that for me and then to do CPR if that is the case. I don't know what to tell you. I need help. I understand that, ma'am.

Is there anyone else there with you who is the person that you were talking to? My neighbor, Katie, she and I are standing here, and we're very afraid, and I don't know how to do CPR. I will tell you how to do CPR if you will go to him.

Listen, when you're faced with an emergency, there are two kinds of people. The kind that hop into action and save a life, and whatever this woman is. I mean, who has the time? As soon as paramedics get there, they rush to Jason's lifeless body and start CPR.

The paramedics kept pushing.

They know that even if Jason doesn't.

Have a pulse....

They still have a duty. CPR is the only thing buying time. It keeps the blood moving to the brain and heart for a few more minutes, and sometimes those minutes matter. So when officers and paramedics reach Jason, they keep going. One person starts compressions, and another takes over and keeps switching back and forth.

Do you need me to take over?

You do what you need to do. I'm not going to get my father.

We need to get somebody set up.

He's going to, my witness will say now, he went south.

From Heather Hill Circle.

Suction is necessary. He might get in the air. I need suction ASAP.

Needing suction means there's too much blood and fluid. They're trying to clear out Jason's airway while someone else keeps compressing his chest. Then they get out their medical equipment. They hoist Jason onto a gurney and strip away his clothes. A monitor is attached and he's moved into the ambulance.

That's when the rescue effort shifts into an investigation. The officers move away from the mail truck and the bloodstained curb and begin to speak to neighbors who had actually seen what took place in real time. One of them had been standing at her mailbox just minutes earlier.

I saw a guy, black, with a blue face mask on. pretty much right where that white or that red sign is.

Walking towards you.

So walking towards here.

Where were you standing?

At the mailbox.

So you're over there and you see him standing on the other side of the sidewalk?

Yeah.

Grabbed my mail from him, chatted for a minute or two, walked back, and honestly as soon as I closed my door and heard the gunshots and saw that guy take off.

Okay.

Were you one of the 911 callers? Yes. Okay. When you got up to him, what did you see?

The witnesses give the police what they can. They saw a man in a black hoodie coming right up on Jason and firing four or five consecutive bullets. That same man then ran from Heather Hill Circle down to Renaissance Drive and disappeared. Officers spread out throughout the neighborhood, but a description only tells police what to look for. They still don't know why anyone would walk up to a mail carrier in the middle of the day and shoot him on his route. They need to know more about Jason, starting with his employer. The detective approaches Jason's postal supervisor.

So, anyone he's had a problem with?

You know, I wouldn't go so far as to say he had a problem with them. We had a carrier.

Another one I love.

But I would think that they would come after me and not him. But he was the type that if he saw somebody do something wrong, he would speak up and say something. So I still wouldn't think that John is off his.

Rockers that much. Did John have an issue with Jason? I don't think he had. I know he knew Jason had wrote a statement on.

Him do you remember what jason wrote jonathan up.

For um slamming what was the statement i can give you a copy of it um yeah but it was mainly he had outbursts of anger in the parking lot and okay he was slamming mail walking all over it uh pushing Carson to... He's on medication, and he went.

Off on a date.

Okay. As far as the supervisor was concerned, Jason was a great guy and a hard worker. He even came in early, a lot, just to help out. He was a rule follower with a strong sense of justice, but some people didn't like that.

He's the type that would help everybody. I mean, he has his ways, but.

We all got our ways, but I mean, as far as, like I said, he's more meticulous. If he sees something happening wrong, he will be that one.

That will speak up.

Jason will?

Yeah, he will be that one that will say, oh, this is BS. Y'all know y'all wrong.

The fired employee gave detectives a plausible lead, but Jason's supervisor doubted that this guy would have blamed Jason personally.

I just can't see nobody hurting him. But then I can't see... that y'all got in this neighborhood. We have never really had things like this happen, so it has to be personal.

Personal. This word starts to shift the case. Until then, police are chasing what witnesses describe as a man running from Heather Hill Circle wearing a hoodie and a face mask and heading in a particular direction. But now, they were finding out personal details. Whoever shot him did it in broad daylight in front of witnesses. Jason was killed in front of neighborhood mailboxes, on a route he drove every day. At a time when someone could have known exactly where he would be. This killing wasn't about just any mail carrier. Someone wanted Jason dead. The circumstances suggested that someone may have been waiting for him. And Jason's life wasn't the only one taken. Police and paramedics tried to save Jason on the street, but he never made

it to the hospital. He was pronounced dead on the route. In the street, Jason's supervisor from the post office was already talking to investigators. She knew Jason's route and the people he worked with. And when the detective asked who might have had a problem with Jason, she gave a possibility. She said a former employee was fired after Jason spoke out about him. but even as she said it, that explanation didn't quite fit. If that person was angry enough to hurt someone, she thought he would come after management instead.

Not Jason. According to the supervisor, there was an even more likely situation involving tension and conflict surrounding Jason. It was a Custody battle.

And then as far as the custody, he told me he was going through something, but he's trying to work it out. But I don't know too much about her. Like I said, I don't think any of us know more about her. The only ones that's going to know is the people that's close to him. Because we do try to share things with each other. But I have to have that fine line, unfortunately.

Sure.

Even when there's a fine line, rumors find a way in. And the supervisor remembered hearing about someone who was dating Jason's ex.

Do you know anything about anyone else that she would have been dating, possibly?

Now, Jessica mentioned that, and then again, like I said, we don't really have desirable people.

And, you know, because, you know, everybody's trying to just get people to hire. So I can't remember if it's her.

I got a couple of carriers who's having issues with their significant other ex. Okay. But I do recall her saying that she got a boyfriend that threatened him.

How long ago was that that you heard that?

This had to have been in August.

August, you heard that?

I want to say it was around August because when I asked him if he wanted to talk, that's when I broke the rules. I was going to say, is this something that we need to be aware of? Do I need to change a route? Do I need to change the setup? At that point, detectives didn't know if this was a real threat or whether it had anything to do with what happened.

On Heather Hill's circle. But they had a name. So later that night, they.

Went to talk to a guy named A.J.

How are you?

Good.

Are you AJ?

Yeah.

AJ, my name's Inspector Chris Lucas. I'm a federal agent.

Okay.

United States Postal Inspection Service. This is Inspector Mole. Okay. We've got a gentleman here with Love and PD as well. Hold on one second.

This is my wife.

Okay.

What's up?

AJ....

Your last name's Richie, right? That's right. Okay. Can we talk to you for a few minutes?

Yeah.

Is it possible for us to come in, or would you rather she talk to you outside?

I mean, I'd rather you talk to me outside.

Okay. She's going to be present.

She's an attorney.

Weird how he suddenly has a lawyer there, right? Well, it was his wife. His wife was his lawyer.

We just want to talk to you a little bit about a lady by the name of Devon.

Okay. Schreiner. Do you know her?

Yeah.

How do you know her?

She's a friend.

She's a friend?

Yeah.

How well do you know her?

I've known her 13 years now.

Okay.

Ma'am, what was your name?

I'm sorry.

Oh, Elyse Bridges.

Oh, Elyse.

Do you?

Oh, I'm its attorney.

Yeah, I was going to be my attorney.

That's my wife.

She holds a bar certification.

Yeah.

We're good.

Okay.

So how do you know her? You said you've known her for about 13 years?

Yeah.

Okay.

Friends for 13 years I mean over the last year or so it hasn't been a very good friendship okay but.

That's how I know her okay so what do you mean it hasn't been a good friendship over the last year um.

She she definitely made it pretty clear that she liked me more than I liked her okay and I'm married so we kind of separated a bit we still talk okay um we talked today I have a pretty good idea what.

This is about.

When did you talk to her?

Apparently while she was driving to.

The police station.

Devin Schreiner, Jason's ex, wanted him, he stated. But the fact was that he was married and they were only friends. That doesn't mean that their history wasn't always platonic. And the affair may not have been over. Devin's sister Rosa knew it too.

When you say one of her men, was it one of her boyfriends?

Yeah, because she has two.

Okay.

So you said she had two boyfriends.

So she had Jessica and Joseph, and then AJ, which is the guy AJ also mentioned.

Okay.

All right, so I have to take a step back here and explain who's who, because you might get lost in all the different names. The person you just heard is Rosa, Devin's sister. In the clip you heard, she's confirming that Devin considered a guy named AJ, to be a boyfriend, even though he was married. Now, these two sisters had been estranged for several years before briefly living together again in 2021. At the heart of the dispute was the fact that Devin was a bit promiscuous, dating two men at a time, both AJ and a guy named Joseph. And Devin wasn't the only one that was a little promiscuous. Rosa had become involved with one of her sister's boyfriends, Joseph. And Devin was pissed about it.

She forced her to leave him. So what did Rosa do? Well, I guess these two are related. So she moved in with her sister's ex, Jason, the victim. And their relationship quickly became serious. This is how Rosa knew who Devin was sleeping with and who she wasn't. She saw with her own eyes that A.J. and her sister had something going on. Rosa recalled her sister making a threat, and it made her nervous.

I don't remember what the threat was about. If you don't do this, A.J.

Knows where you live, and he has his guns.

And he was like, I was.

Worried about that for a while, but now I'm not worried about it. Specifically A.J., He worries me the most, big time. And I don't know how often he comes around. When I lived with her, he was around quite often. Immediately thought of A.J.

Do you know A.J. has, or do you have an impression that A.J.

Has access to guns because of the comments that she made?

Yeah.

The first person Rosa thought about was A.J., Her account contradicted A.J. 's description of the relationship, giving detectives another reason. to question him. Rosa made them aware of yet another concern. Her five-year-old nephew, the son of Devin and Jason.

Hi, I was transferred to you.

I was told that I needed to speak with you, um.

I'm not really sure about, but I've.

Been getting a lot of calls from past co-workers and people.

That I know saying that there may have been an accident with my son's father.

Devin brought up the calls she had received from former colleagues, since she had also worked at the post office.

What's your name?

Devin Schreiner.

Okay.

Yeah, there's been an incident. And so we're trying to figure out what's going on. I have no idea what it is, if it's a random event or, but yeah, I'd like to talk to you about this.

Are you available to come in over here and we can talk?

Can you tell.

Me what's happening?

Because everybody just keeps saying there's an accident and my son is supposed to be with him right now. And he is five years old.

Yeah, we have this crisis here.

You have my son?

Yep.

I'm sorry?

Chase is here. He's fine. Rosa came to pick him up because of what's going on.

Okay, so I don't understand why nobody called me.

I am his mother and nobody called me. Yeah, we were trying to find your contact information.

My contact information should be anywhere that my son's father is. I understand that we're not together, but.

I'm his mother, and I should have been contacted immediately.

She had a right to be upset because Jason was the father of her kid, and he had obviously been in some sort of accident or something. Instead of letting her know, the police had let her sister, who was living with him, get her son. and bring him to the police station.

I'm going to find out who was in charge of that and ask him what's going on with that.

Well, Rosa is not his guardian. She should not be having custody.

Of him right now.

We're not saying that she's having custody or anything like that. We just want to get the police.

Out of there.

Okay, so was my son picked up from daycare?

Yes.

Okay, the daycare has my contact information.

He should not have been removed from the school until I was contacted.

Well, let's figure out what's going on. Yeah, I would.

Love to, but what is happening?

Where is my son's father?

Well, that's what we need to talk about and talk about this in depth. Are you able to come down to the police department? And in the meantime, I'll find out who was out on scene.

Oh, I mean, you have my son. Yes, of course I'm coming down there. I am in Fort Collins, so I am a little bit away. It'll take me a little bit of time to get there. Okay, well, does she need to be? She's my sister.

And.

There's a lot of family issues with me and her going on that I don't want her with him. She's not his guardian.

Okay.

All right.

We won't let her leave with Chase. So come on in and we'll get it.

All straightened out.

On the phone, Davin sounded like someone trying to get information from the outside. But she was Jason's ex. She was the mother of his son. And she needed to know what was happening. But by the time detectives talked to Rosa, they heard something a lot more complicated. They heard about the Tangled and complex love lives of sisters Devin and Rosa. These two got around, I'll tell you.

While Rosa was living with Devin, she slept with Devin's boyfriend Joseph. Rosa told detectives that she went to Joseph's apartment late one night to help him calm down after an argument with Devin. And then, as she put it, she fell asleep. In fact, her exact words were, it was late. I fell asleep, woke up in his bed, and you can imagine what happened. So yeah, there was tension between these two very promiscuous sisters.

Yeah, they were kind of having an argument.

And then....

Yeah, and then there was.

I went over to his apartment to kind of help him.

Anyways, and then there was.

And you helped Joseph? Yeah, just like talking-wise. to make sure he was okay with what was going on.

Do you remember what they were arguing over? Was it some freebie? They were arguing over her other man. So you said she had two boyfriends. So she had this good Joseph and then.

AJ, which is the guy AJ also mentioned.

Okay.

So they were arguing over that and then you ended up going over and talking to Joseph.

How did How did your sister respond to that? Well, she didn't know that situation. Because, of course, it was a little bit of a story.

Anyways, and I ended.

Up telling her.

And she was very, very upset. She threatened to kill herself.

It's hard to make out some of what Rosa is saying. She had been crying and She was talking quietly. But overall, she was trying to explain a messy family history that was already in place before Jason was ever part of it. Rosa said she didn't even really consider Devin to be her sister. That's how bad it was. Devin had been out of her life for years. And when they reconnected, their relationship didn't just repair itself. It got worse. Much worse.

For a while, Rosa lived with Devin until she crossed the line and slept with with her man, Joseph. Well, one of her men, I should say. Rosa denied having an ongoing relationship with him. But after she told Devin what happened, she said Devin wanted her gone. Understandably. By late June, Rosa was no longer living with Devin. She'd been kicked out, and after staying at several places, she was invited to move in with her sister's ex, Jason.

And almost immediately, Rosa and Jason became a couple. Rosa was also helping care for Jason, Devin's little boy, when Jason had custody of him. The relationship between the two sisters had deteriorated so much that Rosa wasn't even sure she trusted Devin as a mother.

He can't. I'm telling you right now. He cannot be with her.

He can't.

What do you think would happen? He thought you can, I mean.

Like, he would come back with us the days Jason picked him up with bruises on him. And Jason would text her and say, hey, where are.

These bruises from?

Never told.

She would never tell him.

Did she end her? Go ahead. Sorry, and it worries me with her men there. The little AJ.

Specifically AJ.

Rosa described her own sister as a failing parent. But that wasn't all she had to say about her.

Because she's a horrible person to her.

A horrible person.

I know the fact that he, like I said, that he's with me that made her mad.

Detectives weren't sure which relationship was more bitter. The one between Jason and Devin or Rosa and Devin. Jason, on the other hand, was no longer alive to talk about it. But there was a lot more to this story and it all pointed back to the post office. Devin had once worked for the Postal Service herself, the same one Jason worked for in Longmont. But that didn't last long, and she was moved to a different location as a sub.

So they had a child together. She worked for the post office for less than two weeks. Yeah. How were you aware of their issues as far as their custody issues? What were the problems that you knew that they were having?

Well, one of my clerks came to me and told me that she was in a building that Looking in.

His case, looking around his case, that's when I had all the.

That work?

Yeah.

Looking around his case?

Yeah, she was just looking around.

So I had all of the codes changed. She was given a different code, and I took it out. So how she got in the building, either they let the door open, because carriers do do that, or he shared his code with her.

Had she already been let go at that point?

She was already gone.

So Davin was assigned a new location, but she showed up again. rifling through Jason's things. Somehow she got a code that wasn't hers and let herself in. The postal supervisor wasn't happy about this, but then again, she maintained that this particular office had different standards than what she was used to. Sounds like a management problem, or lack thereof.

Where I'm from, we actually really didn't hire the significant other in that particular office.

We hired you for the same code.

But because we try to avoid situations like this, you couldn't work in the same office. When I got out here, I got mama, sister, daddy, cousin, uncle, and aunts working in the same office. And when they blow up, they blow up. I didn't even know her. that that was his girlfriend. Honestly, I would have thought that maybe.

He had better taste, too, but apparently not.

I thought she was a little bit strange and all, so the job wasn't right for her. That and the fact that she was constantly arguing. She was just strange and odd.

Devin may have seemed odd to the postal supervisor, and Rosa may have questioned her as a mother, But there were two sides to this story. And from Devin's side, the last few months had been humiliating. She had left one postal job and started delivering mail somewhere else. She was fighting Jason over custody, and her sister was part of the custody battle, since she was living with her ex and assuming the role of stepmom to her kid. Then, when Jason had an accident and their son needed to be picked up from daycare, the call went to Rosa.

not the mom, Devin. At this point, she was confused and angry, trying to take control of the situation.

Okay, well, I need him to be here now. I saw my father's car outside, and I'm not really sure why he's here.

Your father's car?

Yeah.

Who's your dad?

His name is Raul.

Raul? Yeah. Okay.

Is he not.

Glad to see your kiddo. He's a registered sex offender, so he better not be around my kid. I'm not sure who's where.

But he's safe right now.

Who is he with?

He's going to be with an officer right now.

Okay, because the previous officer that I spoke to on the phone said that he was with my sister, and she doesn't have custody of him either because she's not his guardian.

Okay.

So I need to know where my kid is, and I need to know what's happening because nobody's telling me anything.

Okay.

Nobody was telling her anything because... Anyone connected to Jason was a potential suspect.

We definitely know your son is safe.

You know he's safe. I don't know he's safe. Nobody called me. I live in Fort Collins.

I work in Loveland.

I live in Fort Collins, and nobody called me. I had co-workers I haven't spoken to, well, past co-workers, I guess, that I haven't spoken.

To in years.

Telling me that my son's father was in an accident.

This is the police department. He is here. Okay, well, why is he not here with me? I need him to be here with me. I haven't seen him, and I don't know what's happened.

He was taken from his school without my knowledge or consent.

And I don't know what's happened to his father.

You're Devin?

Yes.

Am I pronouncing that right?

Yes.

I'm Steve. You can call me Steve. We've got to kind of step back here a little bit. I got to tell you some bad news. Your ex-boyfriend, is it? Ex-husband?

I just call him my son's dad.

Son's dad? We were never married, but... He died today.

Devin sighs as she puts her head down and runs her fingers through her long hair.

What?

How?

What happened?

Someone shot him in the face.

In the face?

Where?

On his postal route.

He was working today?

He doesn't... Yeah. He was working and someone came up and shot him.

When did this happen?

12.32 today.

It is 6 o'clock.

Yeah. So, it's kind of a long story.

Devin is focused on the time of day. implying she's been left out of the loop. The detective is about to pull her into the loop, starting with her rights. After all, no one has been ruled out yet, least of all Devin, who is connected to A.J., and A.J., who has allegedly threatened Jason in the past.

I'm really kind of concerned. I know that you got served just the other day with child custody, and you're a little upset about that. You told A.J. You told Devin in the past that A.J. knows where you live and that he'll shoot you if he needs to.

I've told who?

You told that to Devin, and Devin told that to us. One Devin?

Yeah.

Well, he heard it. Jason heard that from you, and then Jason told Rose that, and Rose told us that. That's happened about a year ago.

That?

That A.J. knows where you live, Jason, and A.J. will shoot you, Jason. You said that.

That I said that? I've never said that.

Why is your car in the crime scene area? Why are you in that area in your car? Why are you turning off your scanner?

I didn't turn off my scanner.

You did.

No, I did not.

The post inspectors are here.

Turn off my scanner.

You didn't go with the scanner. The scanner's at your boyfriend's house or somewhere in that area, in front of it or in a bush somewhere in that area. It wasn't with you. They have a breadcrumb trail and GPS on your scanner. And the post inspectors were here and they said, before the homicide, you're not doing anything with the scanner. It's stationary for like three hours or more.

And it should be mobile because you're working, but it's at your boyfriend's house. And why is your car in the crime scene area? I don't... You've got video of your car in the crime scene area.

I don't know why it would be on camera that... My car was.

Down there, but I don't, if I don't scan packages, then obviously I'm not doing that. But I did stop and, right, I did stop at his house for my.

Lunch break, sort of.

Three hours is sort of a long lunch break if you can afford it.

So I'm asking you, did you have AJ do something? Castaneda, or if not, maybe it looks like it's you. Castaneda, I don't... The other boyfriend? I... Castaneda.

Well, I know who that is. I just don't understand.

How he's... I don't know.

One of your boyfriends. One of your associates. Someone killed your ex. And we want to find out who it is. It seems like you're involved. Your car is there.

The detective is doing one of the toughest jobs of his life right now. A job I had to do. Sorting out the men in Devin's life. You might have to draw a diagram after this episode because it does get a little complex the way these two women are just, you know, going at it with all these different men. Well, actually, all the same men. Anyway, there is Joseph Castaneda, her current boyfriend. And then there's A.J., I don't know what A.J.

stands for, sorry. But he's the married guy that Rosa had already named as one of Devin's men, the guy who threatened the victim. And Devin's problem isn't just that she knows A.J., it's that her car was seen near the scene. And her postal scanner, the device that should be moving along with her as she delivers mail, has been stationary at A.J.

's house.

Her route stops, her scanner sits near A.J., And Jason is shot while she's at lunch. But Devin doesn't seem threatened. She goes back to the one thing she keeps demanding. Her son.

I'd like to exonerate you if you didn't have anything to do with this and get you out of this police department.

Yes, because I would like to see my son.

I don't think you want to hang out with me. And I think you want to see your son. And I want to check out all the boxes. So here's what's going on. We went out to this school. And we said we don't want anyone picking up the child until we figure out who's who and who's safe, who we can release the child to. If the ex-husband shows up at the school and the wife's dead, we're not going to release the kid to the ex-husband who just killed the mother. You know, that's going to put the kid in harm's way. So that's just standard police 101 business.

But nobody called me.

Devin just isn't understanding what the detective is trying to say. So he tries a little harder to explain it to her. Kind of like a game of Clue.

We need to figure out what's going on and how your baby's father died. So we're not going to let the son go just yet.

He doesn't need to go, but if he can be... Can I at least see him first?

Right now, no. Why?

Right now, no. We've got to figure out if the butler killed your... the baby daddy's son, or if you killed the baby daddy's son, or if the bookie killed him, or if it was a random person who killed him. I don't know who killed him. And I don't want to turn over the X to the baby until I know that everything's legit, and that you're calm, and that you're rational, and you're not a crazy person because I've never met you before.

I'm not calm. My son was taken. Nobody told me that anything happened. My son was taken from school by either police. And I was not informed or by somebody who is not legally allowed.

To pick him up from school.

A parent focusing on locating a five-year under those circumstances is not inherently incriminating. But she never mentions her son's loss or the death of his father, as if she's already processed it.

Your son's dad died? the butler out.

He's definitely ruling out the imaginary butler, but he's not done pointing the finger at AJ and Devin. It's just not going to be in the library with a candlestick.

Devin, I.

Think you're a good person, but something's not right here. I think the gig is out. There's something weird going on here. Everything is pointing to you being involved in the shooting. People don't go around shooting most of the people.

Um, I mean, I work for the post office, and I have before, and I have been.

Supposedly you're on video two weeks ago breaking into the Longmont post office. That's a separate issue.

I didn't break in.

I work for the post office. I'm allowed to go in. But who cares about that? That's just a stupid burglary.

Burglary?

Yeah. Let's talk about the homicide.

So let's talk about the homicide. Before the detectives said it out loud, they had already laid out the pieces. A Nissan Rogue with a missing front hubcap near the crime scene. Devin's Nissan, I might add. Postal scanners record more than delivered packages. They also record location. Devin's scanner should have moved with her on her route. Instead, it remained near AJ's home for roughly three hours. Devin said she was there for lunch. Sort of. AJ had already been named in a threat against Jason. And he had guns. So, a car, a scanner, a three-hour lunch, a married boyfriend with a gun. Then, the detective presented the next clue.

Why, why, what's your involvement in this? Because I think there's a lot more than you're telling us. The video of the shooter looks kind of like you. It's from a distance, but it looks like your height and your build. It doesn't look like AJ's height and build. Doesn't look like Castaneda's height build. Looks like your build with the black hoodie.

Eyewitnesses had described a man running from the scene in the mask and the black hoodie. But they had obviously missed something. It wasn't a man in that hoodie. It was Devin. The detective wasn't guessing either. He already knew it was her. How could they be so sure it was Devin, you might ask? Well, the answer is simple.

They were sure because they had seized AJ's phone and found a screenshot of Devin in the exact same outfit, taking a bathroom selfie, of all things. What a dumbass.

There is nothing being hidden.

There's nothing else.

Okay, so if we don't talk about your car, do you want to continue this conversation, or are you done with the conversation?

There really isn't much else to say of said my day I've said what I needed to say I don't see what other questions.

You would have well I'd like to know who do you think would have done this to Jason I.

Don't know who would have done this to Jason I don't know his life anymore I am no longer a part of it he made that perfectly clear when he decided to for a lack of better words sleep.

With my sister can I talk to you about that or do you want an attorney there's.

Nothing to hide with that either so I will Answers questions about that.

Okay.

You're okay answering questions about your sister? Yes. Are they dating?

They are living together.

Are they sleeping together?

They're definitely sleeping together in front of my son, which is how.

I found out.

I'm a five-year-old.

Okay.

How old is your sister?

Is she of age?

19. Really?

She just turned 19.

How old are you? 26.

Okay.

She had been living with me.

At the beginning of this year until the end of June.

Okay.

And then I found out that she not only slept with my ex-boyfriend, but also with my son's dad.

Okay.

And I kicked her out and I told her she was no longer allowed to live in my house if she was going to be that kind of person.

Okay.

Even then, Devin didn't confess. She wasn't budging. She didn't say she shot Jason. She didn't confirm the selfie was real or that the hoodie was even hers. or that the person the witness saw running from the mailbox was her. She stayed where she had been from the very beginning, in an angry, confused, and even slighted state, carrying her way out of responsibility, as she'd always done before. Her statements gave detectives a possible motive, resentment over the custody fight and Jason's relationship with her sister. Only one thing, hovered in the air when they led Devin away in handcuffs.

Was her married boyfriend A.J. complicit? By that evening, detectives were pretty sure that the evidence pointed to Devin as the shooter. Her car had been recorded near the scene. Her postal scanner had remained stationary at A.J. 's home for hours. Investigators had recovered an incriminating selfie from A.J.

's phone, and Devin had openly expressed resentment towards Jason and her sister Rosa. But Devin never admitted to shooting him. That evening, Devin Schreiner was arrested for first-degree murder. But she wouldn't be alone.

Jim, Longmore Police have arrested a man they say was complicit in the murder that happened here just last week. And according to police documents, they revealed that man followed Jason on the morning of his mail route. 34-year-old Andrew Ritchie was taken into custody last night on charges for complicity to commit first-degree murder. Police say he was in a relationship with Devin Schreiner, who's charged for shooting Jason, her ex-boyfriend and child's father. In Andrew's 23-page arrest affidavit, he told police Devin had talked about killing Jason. Andrew admitted he followed Jason last Wednesday morning to see if Devin would show up. He told officers he even had a 15-second conversation with Jason, telling him he was pushing

Devin over the line regarding child custody. Andrew says Jason told him he wasn't afraid of her.

Okay, I looked it up. Andrew Ritchie was his name. That's A.J. Andrew Ritchie. I don't know what the J is for still. But A.J. was also arrested and charged with complicity to commit murder. A.J., or Andrew's, account shifted responsibility towards Devin, of course. And this information made its way into a jail phone call between Devin and her other boyfriend, Joseph.

Hi.

Hi, dear.

Are you okay?

What's wrong?

There's more news today.

What happened?

AJ telling them everything, as well as they found a picture of you in the outfit.

The picture is important because Devin's defense attorney would later argue that she was coerced by AJ. But that's pretty, you know, hard to believe, considering she took a selfie in the same outfit the killer wore. I mean, what kind of a fucking dumbass takes selfies of themselves before committing a crime? It takes a real piece of shit narcissist.

And I think that's what we got here.

What did he say?

That he tried to talk you down. And this had been going on for a while, and he tried to warn Jason.

But that's also hard to believe, given what AJ and Devin allegedly said next.

Well.

besides the picture of you in the same outfit that happened that day. He's also stating that he said, today's the day and you have everything you need on the day when he dropped you off to work. He's being held for complicity.

During most of the phone call, Devin's boyfriend Joseph was torn up about being separated from Devin. I guess he really missed that sweet community puss. Meanwhile, she did a whole lot of apologizing to him.

Sorry, you're not okay.

I just wish I could have seen you again.

I know, I wish I could see you too. I'm sorry. I wish I knew what to say to make it better.

Sorry.

I wish I could make your situation better. It's getting worse.

It's not your job to make this better, though.

There's a lot stacked against you.

I'm sure there is.

I can't abandon you.

While Joseph refused to abandon her, A.J. had completely turned his back. He said he tried to talk Devin out of it. He even tried to warn Jason. But the facts remain that Devin killed Jason, and A.J. knew she was going to. The jury rejected their defenses and found both defendants guilty. They were later sentenced to life in prison without parole.

And keeping him in his house would be one of the best possibilities. And it is up by my dad and it is up by my sister, even though they shouldn't have custody and they shouldn't take care of him. You aren't opposed to them seeing him. Because they are his family and his friends are here and his friends are.

Yeah.

You know, he has the neighbors, the friends of his that were our neighbors when we lived at the house. He has his friends from school. He has Jocelyn. He has all of those friends. And taking him away from everything on top of... Not seeing his parents would not be good for him.

The custody battle continued, of course. This time, Jason's parents were the ones fighting for custody of their grandson. Devin had a different idea. She felt her son should stay where he was, and Joseph should raise him. Either way, the kid had lost both parents, which, you know, isn't great. Jason had moved on in a way Devin deeply resented.

She really liked puppeting these men around, I guess. But Jason was now with her younger sister. He was seeking more time with his son, and prosecutors argued that the custody fight and his relationship with Rosa had become part of Devin's motive to kill him. She shot Jason in the middle of an ordinary neighborhood, on an ordinary day.

while people stood outside collecting their mail. It's crazy that she chose to kill him instead of her sister, which she seemed to resent even more, and probably not for an unjustified reason. During her first interview, Devin repeatedly asked why she could not see her son. By the end of the case, her own actions had provided the lasting answer.

Jason was dead. Devin was going to prison. Their five-year-old son had lost both of his biological parents. For the rest of her life, Devin would be separated from the person she insisted mattered most, her little boy. In the end, it just goes to show how some of these sayings we've heard all of our lives are true and exist for a reason. I'm reminded of the one saying, All is fair in love and war. And although it's probably a very true statement in a lot of ways, there should probably be a footnote that instructs dummies like these two sisters to keep your family out of it. We hope you've enjoyed yet another episode of Sword and Scale.

It's been 13 years. Can you believe that? I've been doing this for a very long time. It's sort of become part of me. And that's unfortunate because it's very dark, dark, dark, disturbing stuff. Usually I tell you to go buy something, but not today.

Not today.

Go be with your family. Tell them you love them. Give him a hug. Stay safe.

Kapitelklicken springt direkt hin

Shownotes

Transkriptvom Podcast bereitgestellt · Zeitmarken springen hin