The 2026 Lexus ES Hybrid is an Endangered Species

0:00 Want to stay up to speed on. What's happening at. Consumer Reports. Sign up for our What's New newsletter and get the very latest product news, safety updates and. Proven advice from our experts. Welcome back to the Talking Cars podcast. I'm Alex Knizek I'm John Linkov and I'm Keith Barry All right. So today we are talking about the Lexus S hybrid.

0:29 And I'm actually pretty excited to talk about this car because historically Lexus S done well in cars testing pretty popular car. And actually, I was thinking about this, drove the car all weekend. Pretty unique right now, right? To have a hybrid luxury larger sedan like this. There aren't a ton of vehicles like this on the market at the moment, so any any.

0:50 Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I was trying to think about it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That alone. That alone is a filter. You start to really whittle down available vehicles and then add the hybrid aspect to it and. Yeah okay. So this it's a unique offering. For context, we also have just recently finished testing the EV version.

1:08 So this is kind of new for Lexus where there's an EV and a hybrid. And so these in its first year. Yeah right. That's right. And this is its own thing that continues. Yeah. They've had a hybrid. Yes before. Right. And so this is kind of the redesign. The EV is the new entrant. Yeah. All together. So keep that in mind as we go.

1:27 Quickly we bought a 2026 S 350 H all wheel drive. We got the convenience package and the cold area package. And in the end, it runs out to about $55,000 with destination, which is interestingly pretty similar to the price of the EV that we also tested. So it's not like one is massively more expensive than the other.

1:49 They're fairly comparable depending on how you optioned them out. But anyway, so let's get into it. John, let's start with you. What stood out about the S hybrid? All right. So super quiet Toyota hybrids do have that kind of. Oh, and the gas engine kicks in under hard acceleration. It gets like, agricultural sounding.

2:06 Yeah. Gritty. Not as bad. There's a lot of power. You're not into that nearly as much. Even like hard accelerations on the highway. I didn't find it offensive in the sense of I am not a crown Crown signature fan. Okay. Because of that. Because of that. Yeah, there's a number of things. I'm not a fan about this cars, but the engine is in like way too early and it's just not pleasant.

2:27 Yeah. And, this I don't feel the same way. Okay. And there's, you see the levels of refinement, whether there's, there's more power or whether there's better sound deadening, etc.. So it's just much better there. I will say it was almost exactly what I expected, having driven the EV and spent a bunch of time with that, having driven other Toyota Lexus hybrids, I agree with you.

2:48 They've done work here. It's not the same, but it's like, okay, this is going to be is it's exactly what I expect. It's a Toyota hybrid experience. It's just maybe like not 11. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. So and I will say I was personally pretty I'll even say smitten by the EV because of how quiet it was.

3:08 I mean, just like super quiet and this retains that in terms of road and wind noise and such. But the engine definitely changes things. I don't know, Keith, if you found kind of a similar. Yeah, I it was unfair. I think that we got to drive the EV first because this is a car that is meant to be an EV.

3:24 It kind of shows you. Okay, EVs aren't just about about instantaneous torque and about, you know, tailpipe emissions. They're also just about being able to make a car that's incredibly quiet. Yeah. And if you have a car that isolates everything else, as Lexus tends to do, the EV really shines. So if I'd never driven the EV, I would say, oh my gosh, they made a better version of this car that we absolutely, totally already loved.

3:50 Yeah, yeah, there were a few things just even before I drove it though, the expectation thing for me was a little because, you know, so first of all, I saw the price, which went up like many thousands of dollars. Compared to the outgoing year. To the outgoing s hybrid. You know, and and this, this one was what it was like 55.

4:10 K, 55 K with destination. And you used to be able. To get one for higher mid 40s as a starting. And it was kind of a very good deal. There were a lot of, you know nice sub vented leases on them. It was sort of the it was a value luxury car. And this is just like everything else. And yeah, yeah it's not unique necessarily to it but it is a bummer.

4:29 And then I look at it and it's kind of I'm like is it is very clearly, you know, related to the Camry. It's very clearly this is, you know, it feels a little less it felt a little less special to me. It felt like Toyota's designers finally, you know, got the oh, minimalism is in Nemo from like six years ago.

4:49 Interesting. And just finally started to. But then then I actually got to drive it and spent time in it and all of those kind of I don't know if I, if I were in a position, I don't know if I would spend 55 grand on it. Yeah. But you know, because I actually I, I don't mind some of the rattling this and the and that, that snarl of the crown.

5:09 And for ten k less. So that's an interesting point. You mentioned similar to the Camry. And I was actually thinking about that on my way and driving this car is yeah it's kind of on the similar platform but used to be more comparable to the Avalon. Right. Which is now gone. So I don't know. When I was driving it, I, I thought it was quite a bit different experience than a Camry.

5:29 It wasn't, it didn't feel like Camry with nicer leather or something like that. I'll get to the Avalon. I'll get to the Avalon. I got something to say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean. The old one was very clearly Camry plus. Yeah. Camry plus. Yeah. You know, you know, down to down to so much of the ergonomics and everything.

5:48 And now it is totally different. It's it's its own vehicle other than maybe aspects of the powertrain. Right. Right right right. But I think so noise is one thing. Just sticking to the powertrain quickly because that's really the differentiator here versus the EV of course. And and otherwise. But it works well right. Like it's powerful.

6:06 There's not a lot of delay and things like that. It just comes down to the noise or it the noise. And I also one of the things I have notes in here is like, I want Toyota stop EV mode in their hybrids, because I find it just so impossible to actually engage. Oh, the fact that they have a button and EV mode and that button automatically has a beep.

6:26 That is not acceptable. Like I don't even think it does anything except say you're you're not in the parameters to, you know, a McDonald's milkshake. It's there and it just doesn't. It's accessible, I guess. But yeah, no driveway. It's accessible. But literally the button just does what a hybrid already does, which is go in EV mode at low speed. Right? Yeah.

6:45 Maybe it gives you two extra miles an hour before it. Let's just get rid of that. Whatever. Battery, you know, spaces for it. Let's just get rid of that other button. Can we use that for that space? I honestly, I feel like we're being too tough on one of our favorite kids. Like, I feel like we're being like.

7:00 Like the one who comes home with straight A's. We're being like, how come you're not doing more extracurriculars? Because this car, honestly, it's like it's like, okay, we've been we've been a little hard on it. But that's because these are the only things that we have to I mean, the hybrid system itself, the handoffs are completely seamless.

7:17 Listen, if so, something with the gas, the gas only version is gone. Correct. But if you're the sort of person who doesn't like hybrids or whatever, you don't quite know what that just ignore that. So there's no need for this. As far as it is. It's a good point. There's this is the gas version. Just go ahead and buy it.

7:36 You'll be fine. It just happens to get I got 41 miles per gallon over the weekend. Exactly, exactly. Amazing. There is nothing about it. And I've been driving Toyota Hybrid since 22,004 and spent a lot of time behind the wheel of them. And this is I mean, there's there's nothing about it. I mean, it just any car with a four cylinder engine, it's going to have some of that.

7:56 Sure that, yeah, there's only so much you can do. Right. And exactly if that does bother you enough, they make an EV exact right, which has its own compromises. And so there's a range and things like that. And this does have quite a bit longer of a driving range, which I think 600 miles. Yeah. You can just fill it up. You don't have to plug it in.

8:12 So to the definitely a huge differentiator between the two regardless. And then yeah, it is still extremely quiet otherwise. And I started to get along with the car quite a bit more as the weekend went on. Put a couple hundred miles on it and people in the back. It was spacious, all these things. So just, you know.

8:29 It's longer too, because it also fills where the LS was. So it's got about about 6.5in more space. And almost all of that I think is rear legroom. It really is a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah I mean it's a big car and it's in the EV version. It kind of makes sense because you realize all right, they got to put a big battery under the floor.

8:47 But then when you look at the hybrid and you realize there is no battery under the floor like that, but it's quite tall and it's a bigger vehicle. But, it, it drives smaller proportionately, I think. I like it in that the last generation. Yes. And the Avalon, when it was still alive, it was getting a little too raked.

9:05 Very. I didn't fit it well, the way my seating position is kind of low but upright, and I find this one better. Okay. So I like that. I like that from a driving position. From a driving position standpoint, it just works really well for me compared to the previous ones, because I know Keith says like it was a car we loved. You said it's a car we loved.

9:22 Everyone here loved it. I did not like, am I interesting? Okay, I felt like header was here. Like you couldn't sit low enough. I couldn't sit low enough in the header. Felt real, real close to my head. And I just didn't. Just didn't work for me. Yeah. Okay. Not the case here. Not the case here. And again, where I said lots of room in the back for people.

9:42 Still lots of room for me. Comfortable for cruising. Totally. And visibility to. Yeah, visibility. You know, and the other thing, when you look at it, you think that's a stubby little trunk on that car, but you open it up and it's actually quite big. Now. The seats still don't fold down, which is some like.

9:57 When you taught me that I didn't I didn't know about that. And like it's shocking. And Lexus is so weird about it. We asked in there and all of a sudden like the face went on and they were this is a brand definitional decision about. And like, just tell us why. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's probably has something to do with not wanting road noise to boom into the cabin.

10:16 It's I'm sure that's what it is. Instead there's a ski pass. Yeah, there is a little pastor, but yeah, that's the seat comfort because once you fold and you expect them to be flat, and if the seats are too cushioned and they stop and then you get dinged. But still, it is a weird thing. It's a little weird.

10:31 It does limit the practicality of the car. But but that's what the NX is for. Next is going to get. The exact same words out of my mouth. I'm sorry. No no no no no, I'm glad you did because that means we're on the same page. Yeah. But yeah. So driving position for a moment. It is a little bit of, like, a narrower cockpit, depending on on who you are, but you have pretty good headroom, I thought.

10:51 And because this car is a little taller for a sedan, you almost feel like you're sitting a little more up than, I don't know, compared to maybe the old yes, for sure. But then even just sedans in general, it's a little bit of a taller seating position. I feel like is the floor plan for pan higher because of the battery?

11:06 Could be when you get out. So you just get that little elevation, almost like the crown in that way, where it's this yeah, light in between kind of shape and position. But I think it's good for it. Combine it with the good visibility in overall. I mean, I don't know what you guys thought. It drives similar to the EV.

11:22 But is it regardless an easy to drive car, right. Yeah. Yeah. There's not I mean, it's it's not it's never been a, canyon carver. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's just not what Lexus is. A true. Even when they tried to, they couldn't, it's a cruiser. It's a highway car. It's around town. It it just it's simple.

11:43 Yeah. I think it's better for it. Better. Why do you want to pay. Why do you want pay for luxury and then have trouble. Yeah. So sure. Yeah I it's something I mean I love, I mean the, the interior I was a little I was again on the luxury side of things I so this is an interesting. Well first of all one thing I just got to say that cold area package.

12:02 I love the fact they call it a cold area package because it warms your cold areas. It has this thing. It has this like like rotisserie grill burner. Yeah, yeah. On it. And you turn it on and it. Warms are radiating here. It's actually and there's one and there's passenger passenger and driver that's actually really cool.

12:20 But other than that, when I, when I saw the pictures of the interior I thought, wow, they really chipped out. And then I got in and I actually touched the surfaces and it's funny. So I drove around in this car with my mother and she said it feels nicer than it looks. And I said you can have my job because I've been struggling with what.

12:40 What is up with this interior. Yeah. And why. And you and I have been kind of not on the same page about the new Lexus interior. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I get it because all of the soft touch, like the dashboard looks like that hard, rubbery, grainy plastic. And then you touch it. Yeah. And it has this nice feel and give to it.

12:57 And everything has just a a nice it just nice touch points like the window regulators to get that soft closing on them. That is that extra little detail. But yeah but that is interesting because that's the opposite of I feel like a problem a lot of cars has where it looks nicer than it feels. Right. Yeah.

13:13 Touch the fake wood and go right. This plastic this. Yeah. Right. So this is kind of the opposite. I mean, the leather that they used to cover the steering wheel or leather like material, whatever it actually is, it's like super, super soft and you wouldn't know it, but until you touch it and get your hands on it.

13:28 But I think those are the types of details that I guess the extra mile a little bit. And I think the car keys point the lighter color. You know, we have a darker interior, but the lighter color interior really shows some highlights as well. So it's that's that's the thing to get. Yeah. Which the pop really helps you see that that that suppleness.

13:47 And the higher end luxury trim has this like bamboo kind of accent which I think looks I think it totally changes the look of the car. Yeah. Totally. So don't buy the entry level in black. Well those are all going to go to Uber black anyway. Yeah. Yeah. This car is like the quintessential I want to pay 20% more for a rideshare car.

14:06 I think I'd be happy if this showed up. This is the modern. Yeah. This is the car that's going to pick you up and you're going to. Oh, this is this is nice. I had, some friends sit in the back, over the weekend, and it was that exact scenario. I felt like an Uber driver. And then they were like, oh, there's so much space.

14:21 Look at the screen. And it's so nice. And could. They get out of the back seat with the door handles. Going there. Are we going. We have to go there. Yeah. Let's take a stop the pit stop real quick. That door handles because no couldn't get out and it was a whole thing. It only took once to, you know, their credit.

14:37 Once I showed them the first time. The second time was better, but it was. Where is it? Okay. Now, I found it, and I press it, but it won't open, right, because it got a kind of press hold and push at the same time. So just why. Does the arrow say pull when you're supposed to. Push? It was also dark, so I don't think there's any backlighting behind.

14:54 Let the double check this. But they couldn't find it on the door. Like physically. Well, it's like you push so they don't. So then you pulls it, but it doesn't work because it's a double pull. So then they push again. But it's kind of in this weird thing I've, I've had a I had to reach out a number of times back.

15:07 Okay. Let me just do this. Like turning around to the backseat, you know, grabbing it to let some kid out, like, that takes away from the luxury experience. So it all this whole touch stuff is to get rid of mechanical pieces and creating mechanical, wear pieces or things, and it's much easier and cheaper and saves money.

15:27 So they have a mechanical, soft touch electric piece. Yeah. I mean, there's other things they can do, right with having the electric. But yeah, ultimately it's just put the handle. Yeah. No one task. I don't think the question. Who asked for this. Yeah. Well it's interesting because we are talking about how, you know, Lexus is almost bucking some trends by even making this car in general.

15:49 Right. Hybrid luxury sedan cool. Focus on comfort. That's also not that common, right? Everybody wants their car to do everything. Yeah, be sporty and quiet. But they still are succumbing to some trends. Whether it's the door handle, the big screen, the flush controls like even Toyota at this point is got it looks at the the product planning board and says, crap, we have to put in this trendy thing.

16:12 Right. So this car is not, escaping those things that either the big. Screen isn't that bad. I agree, I think. The touch buttons aren't that bad. Those. So the the buttons below the screen. I was thinking about this this morning and really what? So for those just listening, I think not seeing the b roll, it's basically like a flush panel.

16:34 It's not a touch screen and it's not touch capacitive. It's like this. It's actually leather covered. Right? Right. Yeah. Going back to feels better than it looks. And they're like embedded under the leather surface basically. And like when you run your hand across it, you can kind of feel. But yeah, really what I guess made them okay.

16:51 Not great for me is that I can rest my hand on it on like a touch screen and then press it right, like you can anchor your hand, whereas a touch screen, you got to do the hover right. You gotta try to line up your finger and then tap it. This you can at. Least looks like the Murano your hand, but it's so much. Better.

17:06 Yeah, is better than that I totally agree. But you have to look. You do have to look. It is not as good as a regular old. I mean, button. I was thinking about that with with whatever I was I was driving in is today is when it's all on the screen, you have to look for the heated seat buttons and whatever.

17:23 Totally. And, you know, whereas if it's a button with a ridge, which companies say, oh, the steering wheel has ridges and you could figure out like, okay, there's two buttons, there's a ridge, I just know, okay, this button on the right is this. And you can do it in stages, right? You can look right, put your finger on it and then like and then the muscle memory do it right.

17:38 Whereas the screen you just can't really do the. Screen though the you know at least the icons are big. The buttons new. Software is big. It's pretty good at like. We've been having few issues with with connecting our phones. To a perennial Toyota Lexus issue as of, let's call it five years. Yeah, yeah.

17:56 And I mean, I give automakers a break in some respects because, you know, they're they're always trailing the phone company. Yeah. The phone software. Yeah, sure. Yeah. There's some update now. It's like, you know what that connection is? I give them a small break. Yeah, I agree this this one was a little better with my phone actually reliably connecting to the car.

18:13 Usually when I started it. Not every time, but let's call it, you know, seven out of ten times something. If I wasn't on someone's Wi-Fi, it connected. Perfect. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. When? When I park in my garage and it's on my house. Wi-Fi. And that set it up and then there's a weird. Yeah. And I think the rest of it controls wise. Yeah.

18:30 The software is pretty good. They, it's still a little complex but they've simplified their gauge cluster design since you know their first iteration of this latest software. Little easier to navigate the menus, things like that. So the one thing I had to that made me laugh a little bit is and this sort of unique to this Lexus models, they have these ambient light strips that kind of go throughout the car.

18:50 And depending on the mode they're on, they like flash and change color randomly while you're driving. So to have that happening and then also the driver monitoring camera warning me about distraction at the same time, it's like, what was that? Yeah, let's turn off the flashing lights, maybe, and then I'll be a little bit more focused.

19:06 I mean, I know, I like the car as a car. Yeah. Oh, totally. I think by and large, yeah, there's just elements. There's just like some Toyota ish elements. And I'm just so down on to your distraction point. It's. So why do I need to be beeped at when I'm in reverse and I'm pulling out of a spot. So then the the side alert is going off with that beeping and then someone goes behind.

19:30 So there's another be I wrote the note. Like the only thing with more beeps and bells is this is the album Tubular Bells. Like it is. There's just so much noise. Yes. And then you get situations like the front, like front cross traffic, whereas, you know, like, okay, you sit in an intersection and then you begin to creep like slightly off the brake and then it's angry at.

19:51 Yeah, it's just I know the safety side from our perspective. And I get it and I get that people are even worse drivers every day. Yeah. And they need safety to protect them from themselves. But the backing up beep has to go Toyota. Yeah. You're talking about inside inside the car. You just get a chance.

20:09 Just get a chime telling the other EVs do that. And yeah I'm with you. I don't quite understand that the the cross traffic one is interesting because it's one of those features where when I do want it to be there and when it works, it is helpful. Awesome, right? You're a couple of times like off ramps where you have to time your and like you said, you.

20:26 You take a break or something. It's what it what's. Yes what's going on. Why is it beeping at me. I have a and or especially ones where there's multiple lanes of traffic and you can't tell that the car that's coming. Yeah. Is coming either in the other direction that you're not going anyways. Some of the logic behind it I think the best you know, active safety systems are ones that you don't notice are the ones where you don't know that the car even has it.

20:53 And then all of a sudden one day it, you know, saves you from something bad happening. And here there's a little more. And I think our fear is that we know these systems work. And if people don't like how they're implemented, they'll turn them off. Right now, no benefit. Exactly. And then they lose. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

21:09 So I think that's one of the but but again, it's another one of those things you get when you own the car, when you drive it, you get you know, you get used to it. I think I agree to a point I mean like blind spot, I find that with that particularly because you know you're moving your jet, you're, you're flowing in traffic, it might go beep but you've already executed say a lane change.

21:27 You know you can tell if the car is closer or if it's these other ones that almost make you. Yeah, freeze. A lot of it is, you know, if you're rolling and you get that, do you get a rear? Yeah. Is there a kid on a scooter they're coming zero or is. It or is it just at the other lane has a tractor trailer going by and I know I'm going to jump and that's that's are you.

21:45 They can't tell. So it's a warning for all instead of a warning for some. Yeah. No that's right I mean yeah the context really matters I think at one point over the weekend, we, we're driving the car and pulled over on the side of the road, and I think I had the door ajar a little bit. And so there's car, you know, we're very off the road safely to the side, but there's cars passing by.

22:04 Right. And the I don't know if it was the cross traffic or the blind spot or what, but it just wouldn't stop beeping. Right. I left the car running because Ali was inside. Whatever. Keep it warm. And it was just one of those moments where it was like, this is now a chaotic situation when all I was trying to do was sit here with the door propped open for whatever reason. Right.

22:22 But anyway, that's not totally unique to to this car specifically, but. So. Okay, so, Keith, you had an interesting kind of comparison that you did with this car and a Avalon, right? Or no. An older. Yes. No one's an Avalon. It wasn't an. Apple. Yeah. We have we have last generation S hybrid in the extended family.

22:43 Yeah. But the one that I drove the, you know, back to back with this one was my mother's Avalon, and it was the last of the Avalon. It's seven years old, has 80,000 miles on it. And I thought, you know, what better way to figure out? Oh, as she said, I mean, she commutes. She commutes a heck of a lot in that car.

23:00 Okay. But, but anyhow. But it's, And loves it. Yeah. And, and I wanted to kind of go back and forth and see what was up, and I and my, my assumption would be, would be that there would be things that I would like about one and about the other. And the thing that we and she came along with me too, because she's thinking, okay, this car, you know at some point do I want to upgrade.

23:23 Do I want to go fully electric. Do I want to get something smaller. So she's always interested. I got my interest in cars from her anyway. So we're driving around in it and she's, you know, this. I just the, the engine doesn't turn on as often. And the wind and road noise is more isolated than the Lexus.

23:40 But other than that, I don't think it's that different. So we did it back to back. And again, it's it's sort of the the snarl was more of a growl in the Lexus. Yeah, it was, but it was just I mean, the Avalon already seven years ago, they had already gotten 95% of the way to where this car is. And again.

24:04 Diminishing returns perhaps. Exactly. At some point you're getting to and the Avalon was you know high 30s. It was not. Price wise. Price wise. Yeah. It was not a $55,000 card. You know again the in and out. It was interesting. My mother found it easier to get into. But a little harder to get out of than the Avalon.

24:27 Dropping it. Dropping it? Yeah. She found it easier to. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So it's, but it's a, it's a, you know, but the visibility was a little better. It was, but it was just, it was all these little refinements. And I think the thing is these are the sort of cars where someone read Consumer Reports in 1994 and has just been buying this car in various guises ever since.

24:48 Maybe they got in when they had kids in school. Yeah, maybe they're, you know, and now they're back to the. So honestly, I think that the problem with this car is, is, is the is is you do such a good job. Yeah. That that eventually you have class yourself. Sure. And you either have something that you're just going to hold on.

25:07 You know, I just I like my car and I'm going to hold on to it for another because we know these cars run 200,000 miles. No problem. We know that they have most of the same safety features as the current ones do. If you already own one of these, if you already own an Avalon, if you already own a, you know, hold on to it.

25:25 Yeah, don't spend that 55 grand on this car. That's. But if you are the sort of person who wants the latest and greatest and you want a car that is comfortable, I mean, this is absolutely I mean, this is not just it it's. It is is both. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Get one now. Please keep buying them so I can get one used in five years.

25:44 Yeah. It's really it's quite an interesting topic and quite a large topic too. But just that idea of let's say in this case Toyota designing a vehicle so good that you're not incentivized to replace it when the new one comes out is both. I mean, it's great in the sense of consumerism and just like not always needing to get the latest and like, good with what you have.

26:04 And I think that's that's good. On the other hand, if people aren't getting into the latest safety technology and crash safety and all those things too, because their their old car is sure, you know, outlasting, so, well, I don't know, it's an interesting topic to go the iPhone problem. Yeah. It used to be you got a new iPhone was wow, look at all these new things my phone can do.

26:23 And now it's I mean, unless you get the folding one now it's, a screen's a little brighter and something's worse. Two megapixels. More on the card, right? Yeah. I used to follow, like, every iPhone release, and I was, like, so excited to go. Like, I really care. Anyway, I actually don't want. No thank you. Exactly.

26:38 Is it paid off? And what are they offering me? A new one for free. Okay. That's that's that's good. So me I think back with the, with the boxy Avalon when they went to the more aerodynamic one, I want to say it's like 1416 that era. And it got stiff and they tried to make it. Try to make they made the the Yardi Avalon and.

26:58 They made I. Love seeing those on the road, the ride worse. You know. And that was the thing. Like people I remember sitting and talking about it like, yes, hold on to that Avalon, don't get the new one, etc., etc. and it's almost like we're in the same spot because it's marginal gains. And unless they're, they're, they're making some significant change.

27:14 Like what we got to be sporty. Yeah. Yeah. You know, what else can you do. I mean they're eking out the most fuel economy already. Life is sporty enough man. Is it. And no I mean things are I mean sporty I mean risk excitement. There's already too much excitement out there okay. I just want my car the right. Kind of excitement.

27:35 The wrong guys. It's the wrong kind of excitement out there. Choose your excitement. You're getting excitement. We're getting excitement 24 seven. Oh, God. All I want is to just get into a car and have it just kind of be a nice place to relax. A warm cocoon. Yeah. After a rough day of podcasting. Yeah, I just I just need to treat myself hard.

27:54 Yeah, I have the lucid gravity. I know I need to get into a Lexus now, and just. I think I'm for. Massage in that car. Really did a number on my. So I'm going to ask which one you should you guys would get. But it sounds like maybe the EV is right for you Keith. Right. It's just total cocoon, right? I don't know why.

28:09 I want to know where I, I'm a little nervous about about that range. But at the same time, if I had a, if I were, if I had, if I had my mom's commute, which is same distance every day, never goes on road trips. I would get the EV. No, you know, hands down, no questions asked. Quite nice. For me. My a round trip to my mom's house and I'm doxing myself and her, is like ten miles more than the EV's total range.

28:39 Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. And that's the only time I really, aside from, you know, I walk everywhere. I need to go around town. I drive. But if I were, you know, that specific road trip. Yeah. Totally makes sense. That's the same type of thing for me. I mean, it's it's good. It's like a sub 300 range, you know, it's like.

28:56 New York in Boston, round trip from where we are in central Connecticut. In the summer. It. Right. I mean, that's a type. Yeah. Like the rainy week, cold weekend. We had it like the range is dropping. And then if I'm going to Boston and yes, if I'm going to Boston from central Connecticut and it's the middle of the day, I'm coming back in the early evening final stop.

29:13 Yeah. I go up there for a concert and it's midnight when I'm getting in the car and I'm getting to Sturbridge or something, and at 1:00 in the morning and have to like hope the charger is working and the. Stop on one of those apple green, yellow. Green or the Panera Bread. You know it's. It's like and work is so much better.

29:32 And the it's so much better and it's got. Yeah. It's got Max so you know you're on you have a even wider the, you know, range of charges to choose from. But at 130 in the morning, the last thing I. Want to do is like. Drop 25 minutes to make sure I get home. I may sleep through it, you know, there we are.

29:51 It's electricity costs and our gas costs. Oh, yeah. It's not easy to make it right. An obvious choice necessarily. It's not an obvious choice for anyone. Although the EV is the better. It's the driver's car. It's, in this case, total. Yeah, it's the more comfortable car. But the handling is even a little bit better with the lower kg and all that stuff. Totally.

30:10 But like, we've not new news for those paying attention to car, like, the hybrid makes the most sense for the most people, at least at this stage. Right. Most like. Right. So we talked about this a little bit. But before we wrap on the s, just this idea that keeping your old car because the new generation is not necessarily as good.

30:28 We were in preparing for this, able to rattle off quite a few recent models we've tested where I can say you want them in that bucket. Yeah. Through that window. What color is it? I mean, the one that really jumped out to me and I, you know, not picking on any in particular necessarily, but like the Kq5, that's the one that's like I think we can all probably agree that the old one was kind of better.

30:52 Better, right? Yeah. Had a volume knob. I mean. Yeah. How do I know there are better things about the new car? Do not get me wrong. Just as a whole package for the average person buying this car. But then, yeah, we just talked to Avalon and. Yes, potentially. Right. That old Avalon is, is quite an attractive thing.

31:10 But again, not because the new one's worse necessarily, but it's like the old one was so good. So that situation's a little different. X3 was another one that. Yeah, the new one just feels so it feels less special inside. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So we're kind of seeing this trend for. Me it's if it if it passes the new IHS the latest IHS set of tests.

31:30 That's all you need to do for me. I don't need anything newer than that. I just want it to be the top safety pick. Plus as of you know if. But you're buying day. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And that's that's what I, that's what I care about. But other than safety there is not much that is exciting me other than safety.

31:48 And I mean the fuel economy gains. We already have them. It's just automakers choosing whether to use them or not. Yeah. Where to where to put it. So yeah. Yeah. But you know other than that there's no excuse for car to be getting less than 40 miles a gallon these days. And you know we already we already have that.

32:05 Sure. So it's for me it's the safety. But yeah it's probably the biggest. Yeah. And reliability depending on the model you're looking at and things like that. But yeah. No I'm with you. We, I think we need a a very short Keith's checklist for buying cars. It's just one, one criteria. Does it. I'm getting.

32:22 I think I'm getting old. No, I think it's actually really interesting. Yes, I know, sorry. You've already got an. That's a really interesting filter that people probably don't often think too hard about is like, oh, let me just let me make sure that this car passes this crash test as my first criteria and then and then go through it makes all the sense. Yeah.

32:39 So all right. So that is the, No, sorry. Sorry I took all my fault. I apologize. I tried to do it just at the moment here changing. Okay, so that's the Lexus. Yes. Hybrid. Definitely. Make sure to keep an eye out for the review video when it goes up in our full testing. You know, all the results and everything as we put it through the test program.

33:00 Check it out on Coorg. You have lots of questions. In an era of AI generated answers, it's important to know who you can trust ACR and tap into thousands of product ratings, safety investigations, and expert advice. So we are going to move on to our question. Part of the show. So don't forget to send us all of your questions to talking Cars at Consumer Dawg.

33:23 The the address there has changed recently. So if you're routinely sending in questions, definitely make sure you send to the right one there that's talking cars at consumer talk trying to get a whole wardrobe. Yeah that's right our swag. Send any questions. Yeah yeah that's right. One of the zoo bars come out I want to send a question for those who would like to know who has the most shirts out there, right from sending in their question, sexy Dave probably just knows that.

33:47 But yeah, to that point, we will send you a, a shirt or something like that when you your question gets used on the show and we definitely like video questions. And really, really appreciate everybody listening and sending those in. So our first one is John Oswald from Wichita, Kansas. And he says, I recall hearing on the podcast to avoid buying a vehicle the first model year of a new vehicle generation to avoid bugs and flaws that are fixed in the subsequent years.

34:12 What about buying a new vehicle at the very end of the first year of production? Well, the manufacturers have fixed the known bugs and flaws over the course of the production year. Or do these get saved to incorporated into the second or even third production years? A person would hope the problems are corrected throughout the production year, but maybe not.

34:31 So I thought this was quite an interesting take on the kind of perennial CR advice, which is yeah, even though we do it here, don't necessarily, if you can avoid it, buying that first model year of a new generation or new vehicle. Right. So this is a little like finer tooth come. What about within. How soon can I get it? Basically. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

34:50 So, John. John's an early adopter. That's John Oswald. Early adopter downlink of I don't know. Yeah. Sometimes, it it's a great question because I think it depends on the problem that they're fixing. Cause, you know, if it's a okay manufacturing line inefficiency, that's one thing that could be relatively quickly changed.

35:09 You know, they're realizing, like Bob who installed the dashes was installing the windshield first, and they were supposed to do the dash first, like, oh, okay, we can make a change, right? Fine. That changed with Vin number X. If it's a supplier related issue, that's a bigger thing because that takes more time to track down.

35:26 That takes more time to address fine. Negotiating back and forth with the supplier. You know, really. And they have to fix their process that new parts have to get in. So that that's a quick take, is that it's a really hard thing to say. Yeah. Is it first. Year? Is it. It could even be mid second year depending on the problem.

35:43 Sure. Totally. Yeah. And I think if it's a software related thing that's maybe a little different. Right. You might only because it could get fixed with an over-the-air update depending on the car or something like that, or even just going to the dealer. But yeah. So totally agree. It depends on the problem.

35:57 But, Keith, what do you think? I mean, I think even sometimes even in the safety world, we see, the crash tests will be different after a half model year because the car will be crash tested after it's already on sale, and they'll find out. Oh, geez. We needed to move some piece of of something in the side impact system.

36:15 We needed to change the mechanics of of, of a seatbelt. Ever. We need to tweak something ever so slightly, and the car will go from being marginal to good, just like that Rav4 or. Camry. Had that. Yeah, there were a few of them. Was like a point five because yeah, the new it just did not pass. Yeah. Just ten years. Ago there was a Subaru that had that.

36:35 It happens just every so often. Rivian I think for a little while had something. And I think that's you know, the other thing is that it's hard to tell because cars sit on the lot for a long time. So unless you're looking at you know, okay when did the actual production start. You'd have to be. And John, I imagine if you're watching talking cars this you you're probably this is something you're probably already doing and able to do.

36:57 But you can look at the Vin and get a sense. You can look in the door jamb, you can see how long it's been in the lot. But just because a car is available doesn't mean that it it, you know, just because a car's for sale now doesn't mean that it wasn't made much earlier in the year. Sure. Yeah. And also, I think it depends on the car and the manufacturer.

37:14 So like, we all remember what happened with the last blazer. EV, you know, there were all, you know, the car was delayed already when it first came out. It was. Oh, geez, I I'm worried about this platform for all. And now. Yeah, those cars, the Ultium cars are seem to be doing seem to be doing fine. Yeah, but they took better.

37:36 Yeah, it took a while. Yeah. The the new Lexus S, I would say. I think you'd probably be safe to buy that in the, you know, these cars with this with the brands with a history of focusing on reliability. Yeah. And where their model year or even generational changes are less throwing it all away and starting again.

37:54 It's it's more of a refinement. Right. We see that from the Japanese brands in particular. Yeah. Well one thing I, I mean, Keith, so you write the predominant number of our recalls and I'm not going to start getting into conflating reliability and recalls and such. Yeah. Going through the documentation, you see the amount of time it takes from identifying the problem gets interesting to going to, oh, oh, now there's a, there's a warranty with the capture fleet.

38:20 And then they have to check that and they go back. I mean you could see a recall. You're like, well a year and a half ago, they first diagnose the problem and now they're finally coming out with the safety. I would say that's a. Safety. Fix. So they call these things 573 reports. I would watch a version of Forensic Files or like a true crime podcast about like when something happened with casting an engine block on the Toyota Camry, sort of on July 1st, 2024.

38:45 But Keith Morrison, you got to get. There was the voice. There was the temperature was mis calibrated by an employee in that Aichi plant. Yeah, yeah. Nobody noticed. And then you know, six months later somebody said, you know, you know, John Oswald was driving down the highway in Wichita, Kansas, and his car began to emit smoke.

39:04 And then. It would all be traced. Back all the way through. And it's amazing because you're right. You read it through and it's like someone and they have to do. Even when they know what the problem is, they have to figure out why the problem is so they can fix it. So you have all these automakers that are like, there's a problem and they have to figure out how to fix it because you can't just say there's a problem.

39:23 So yeah, absolutely. And sometimes it is as simple as a cable should be routed. Over instead of. 100, you know, the vowel instead of underneath the tube. And, but those things can be serious because depending on what it takes to fix that problem, you might have to take an engine out or. Right? I mean, it can be it can sound simple, but it's not necessarily simple.

39:45 In the in the grand scheme. Of can we do a spin off of of the podcast where I just have I have true, true recall stories. Great. Oh yeah. All right. Great love. Excellent. I do recall we can. Do a lot of Ken Burns effect. Yeah. You definitely make a pretty dramatic. Oh yeah. Oh I. Love this. I do think this advice weather I mean first of all any waiting is good.

40:03 Waiting whether you wait as long as you possibly can in that first model year builds character ideally later with a built character. Yeah. It's more important now than ever, right? As these cars are getting more and more complex. There's so much like chaos and kind of confusion in the market of which direction it's going to go, which technology is this and that, that giving the automakers as long as possible to figure it out is just in your best interest.

40:27 And I will add to all this, too, especially with a new model introduction. The longer you wait. Reliability aside, they figure out the popular options and things like that. You may end up getting a trim that has a better options package later on too, right? As they figure out, okay, maybe we didn't need a we didn't want to package this thing with that, our other option or whatever.

40:47 So it might. Not have been ready. Totally. That's how we have to wait to get cars in because the options we want, you know, everyone else has their reviews up and we're like, but we want to test. It's not worth settling for. Yeah, in my opinion, they make bizarro changes that for the for the positive part way through that kind of come out of the blue.

41:05 I mean look at Audi with their steering wheel. All of a sudden they're like we're giving you back the scroll wheel like yeah okay. Yeah. So it came out partway through the model year and huzzah. But 26.5 model year right. Yeah. So I mean. You some of you found a warehouse full of steering wheel rocker switches.

41:22 Yeah. You know, but you're just like, oh, okay. Well, that's actually a positive, you know? So by waiting, you know, you're not going to get something like, oh great, I have the slider that doesn't work. But it to your point though, early on it's, it's track record. Look at the manufacturers do that.

41:37 You know, your your Toyota's your Honda's, you know, Lexus Acuras and such, that the just they just have a better track record of of launching cars that maybe are reliable and average. You could take that risk at the end of the model year. But sometimes Toyota Honda is going to drop you a civic redesign where after one year changes a wholly revamped year, they just blow.

42:00 The Toyota in the tundra. I was going to say even these companies that we're talking about are not perfect in that regard at all. The tundra, huge issues going in, you know, new powertrain and new generation and all that stuff. So, even there, it would have paid off to to wait or buy something else. Maybe.

42:15 But so we have another question this week also, and it's Jim and he sent us a video question. And so let's go over to him I talking cars. I have for you a question that some might consider a bit macabre, but I'm going to ask it anyhow. I have two grandkids, and any time I take them, any place in the car, they get strapped in to their car seats.

42:41 But that made me think about when I. Was growing up. My parents had a 1963 Chevrolet Impala station wagon, and I. Have. Seven brothers and sisters. And so if we were to go to the root beer stand. We all piled into. The station wagon in. At least 3 or 4 of us. Ended. Up sitting way in the. Back where there were two like little bench.

43:04 Seats back there that we sat on. Now, I don't recall any seat belts of any kind. In fact, what I remember is if my parents had us turned sharply or maybe. Hit the brakes. We all went tumbling around back there. Now, was it safe? Probably not. My question is today. If a child is. Securely fastened in a child safety seat, how many.

43:29 Kids are seriously. Injured or killed in car accidents? Let's say for the year 2025. Where there. Should be a full year of data. Compared to like. 1963, where there were. No child seats. And even if the car did have seatbelts, almost nobody buckled their seatbelt. I'm just curious. I know it's a strange question, but I enjoy watching your podcast and I hope you can answer my question.

43:55 Thanks a lot. All right. Thank you, Jim, very much for your question. So none of us are really the best people to answer Jim's question. So I'm actually going to throw it over to Doctor Emily Thomas, who is our resident safety expert. She works on child seats and really is all things safety at CR for cars.

44:12 So she is the best person here and probably in general to answer this. So let's see what she has to say. Hi Jim, thanks for the question. You are correct that there has been a lot of changes in child passenger safety since 1963. So before I go into the numbers, I do want to express that there isn't really comparable data for us to compare between the 1960s and now, just because our driving culture has changed so much. Back then, people weren't using their vehicles with their families quite as much.

44:43 The vehicle Miles traveled is significantly higher today than it was back in the 60s. And so while we have numbers and they're relevant and they're true, you have to also take into context the driving culture, how much people are on the roads, how often they were traveling with their children, things like that.

45:02 When you're comparing the numbers. That being said, according to the National Safety Council, in 1963, there were 5054 child occupant deaths and traffic crashes that were ages 14 and under. The most recent data that we have is actually from 2024, and it show that there was 550 child occupant deaths. There were less than 13 years old, a third of which were unrestrained.

45:25 So to your point, the chances of survival are much higher if they're properly restrained, like your grandchildren seem to be. Data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration tells us that in passenger cars, for infants that are under one years old and properly restrained in infancy, there is a 71% reduction in fatal injury risk.

45:45 And for kids that are just one through four, if they're properly restrained in a car seat, that their fatal injury risk reduction is 54% in a crash. So there is lots of data out there that shows the effectiveness of car seats and how much they've improved and reduced child death in car crashes over the years.

46:05 So he's doing a great job as a grandpa and keeping your grandkids safe. All right. Thank you, Emily, for your answer. And, John, I think you actually had a little bit that you wanted to add on to, to Emily said there. Yeah, I mean, I the numbers are super interesting and it just it, you know, concerns me when, when just to see things like one.

46:23 Third. Of the children of the 550 children who died in 2024 were unrestrained, you know, and I get. Yeah, I, I get challenges as a parent. I have two kids. They're not teenagers are nowhere near car seats. But I get it. But it it. Just shows like, look at these numbers, 1963 5054 child occupant deaths.

46:42 And now it's 10% of that number through safety. And just if you if you're some kind of safety doubter for whatever reason, the stark numbers just show like how safe cars are today. Yeah, but how safe cars are today when you use the safety feature and yeah, it's just it's a huge take away. Yeah. And I think that's and that's despite the differences in car culture, as Emily put it in driving culture. Right. And how the cars are being used. So.

47:06 And I was driven. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And I think we can all agree that we should be giving, you know, the kids the best possible chance when you put them into a vehicle. Yep. So yeah, using these things makes a lot of sense. And using them properly. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It is hard to get a kid into a rear facing seat when they're being or through.

47:23 It's hard to make them want to use the booster seats. Actually, when they were teenagers. You know, let alone adults. You know, I ride with my parents, but it is worth it. It's a it's a struggle, but it is worth it. Sure makes sense. Cool. Thank you for that. All right. So that's going to do it for this week's episode.

47:40 Definitely make sure you tune in for the next one. But we really, really appreciate everybody watching. And being longtime listeners before we go, if you're watching this on YouTube, you'll notice that we have a donation or a fundraising button. And we are a nonprofit. We buy everything that we test, and every donation helps.

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