Behind The Scenes of Reality TV w/Liv (a former Reality TV producer)

[SPEAKER_01]: Hi everybody, welcome to another episode on Altacol. [SPEAKER_01]: I am your host, Tane. [SPEAKER_01]: Here with a brand new episode, doing things a little different today, not a recap, but it's going to be a lot of an interview just chatting. [SPEAKER_01]: And my guest today is known as Live on Air, your behind the scenes bestie.

[SPEAKER_01]: a former reality TV producer for many shows, many cooking shows, and even our little show maps. [SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to talk about that. [SPEAKER_01]: She has a podcast that she lovingly calls the Broken Brink Love, where she does deep dives into current show gossips, gives us details and VTS of our favorite shows.

[SPEAKER_01]: And my guest today is Live High Live. [SPEAKER_02]: How are you? [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so happy to be here. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for having me with a lovely intro. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's deserving. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for coming on this show. [SPEAKER_01]: I came across your content and I almost like, wept for joy.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's an exaggeration. [SPEAKER_01]: But basically I was so happy because it's like, oh my god, this is the answer to all the questions as someone who just like spends a lot of their time watching reality TV shows. [SPEAKER_01]: So the first question I'm going to ask is, how do you [SPEAKER_02]: Um, great question and I'm so happy that you're happy to watch it because I feel like I used to see this behind the scenes content of all these like, you know, game with friends and like these new videos.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, there's no behind the scenes content of these reality shows that people also want so much. [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm glad it's fascinating. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I got into reality to be the way all good things happen, which is meeting a random man in a bar. [SPEAKER_02]: I'd been in, I'd been an extra in a music video for a boy band.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was obsessed with that. [SPEAKER_02]: I was also a big boy band [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember seeing people on set who were working and I was like that looks way more fun than what I'm doing Which is like standing in the salon line and like having to like be really excited at this concert So like maybe I should look into that for a career.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'd failed on my econ major So I had no idea what I was doing with my life and I loved reality TV And he met this guy in a barn. [SPEAKER_02]: He was like, oh, I'm working on keeping up with the Kardashians And I was like This is the coolest person I've ever met in my entire life. [SPEAKER_02]: Like I didn't even occurred to me that I could do that [SPEAKER_02]: So we stayed in touch very casually.

[SPEAKER_02]: I would like get coffees when I was down in LA with him. [SPEAKER_02]: I got an internship in the entertainment industry classic, working for free as a receptionist, a ten-filo pez's production company. [SPEAKER_02]: And just stayed in touch with him. [SPEAKER_02]: And he had an opening come up on a show that he was on.

[SPEAKER_02]: He put my name in, and that was my first PA job. [SPEAKER_02]: I was logging, so I was literally just live logging, the interviews that was happening and taking notes. [SPEAKER_02]: Never left, I just crawled, crawled me a little way up the ladder as quickly as I could. [SPEAKER_01]: That is so cool, but before we go further, I have to know what boy band was.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was emblem three, which is one of theirs? [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it's not, I see. [SPEAKER_02]: You've got, you've got, I expect your America, but I used to, I used to follow one direction of five seconds or so, I was obsessed with them. [SPEAKER_02]: And so, emblem three, it was like the, you know, the tangible one so we could get a little closer to.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they were like the, I was trying to think who it is. [SPEAKER_01]: Would you say they were the 98 degrees of the old town of, I think 98 degrees in terms of relevancy were like, yeah, they were not relevant. [SPEAKER_02]: They're really lovely guys though. [SPEAKER_02]: I ended up hanging out with them one night, which was like very, you know, when I was like 20 when I was like, this is.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is like, um, yeah, anyways. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: That's a pretty cool. [SPEAKER_01]: So can you walk us through like what shows you've been on. [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's because that we would know. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: So I started in for that first company I worked for is actually kinetic content, which now produces.

[SPEAKER_02]: Love is blind and made it for a sight, but at the time was doing much smaller reality shows. [SPEAKER_02]: So we did a show called Seven Years Switch, which is now the ultimate of which is so I read it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I worked on it. [SPEAKER_02]: That's a deep gut. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was the same people.

[SPEAKER_01]: Was it FY, not FY, but in that same channel? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that was how they met work. [SPEAKER_02]: So they sold a bunch of small kibbles, so that's how we're done. [SPEAKER_02]: I just lit a woman in LA for a long time, which is like, [SPEAKER_02]: housewife but with little people.

[SPEAKER_02]: Don't worry, leave. [SPEAKER_02]: I watched them all. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, great. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I did like I did three seasons of LA. [SPEAKER_02]: So I started in those smaller shows and then worked my way up to the bigger stage shows, which is what I, I mean, I actually loved them all for different reasons, but then I started working on American Idol and World of Dance and Dancing with the Stars.

[SPEAKER_02]: And wow, definitely clear. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So are you still working [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not. [SPEAKER_02]: I left in like 20, 21. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, post COVID. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, pivot it pivot it. [SPEAKER_02]: I do. [SPEAKER_02]: I do some very similar work for like a brand of content creative production company.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we've made a lot of stuff for tech companies, but I haven't actually worked in. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's pretty cool. [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like you went to competitive, would you say? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: which was very fun. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, fun and different and just look at different, but different, different brain part of producing for those types of shows.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so which did you prefer? [SPEAKER_02]: I loved both for different reasons. [SPEAKER_02]: I think the like world of dance was one of my favorite shows because it's filmed on the Universal Studios Lot, which was just, I remember going on there as tours as a kid. [SPEAKER_02]: So to get to go there to work every day and drive on the lot and like walk past the people on the tram who were paying to do a tour there, [SPEAKER_02]: That was just very fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: I got to take my parents, you know, around the lot on a golf cart and get to do the whole thing. [SPEAKER_02]: That's just, you know, that's that's hard to replicate. [SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, I love them all for different reasons and learn so much from all of them. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, nice.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's really cool. [SPEAKER_01]: They're just having like front roots seats to that. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't even know where to start for them because it's like a gazillion question. [SPEAKER_01]: But I will start with my number one question that I always have, which is confessional.

[SPEAKER_01]: You would think that by now, I would know how they're filmed. [SPEAKER_01]: And I know you talk a little bit about this on your podcast, but for those who are listening and do not know, can you walk us through the process of a confessional and how many days, how long does it take? [SPEAKER_01]: Why are there?

[SPEAKER_02]: different looks are they watching stuff how do they remember what is happening yeah so fair and such a common question because I think people are always like how are they crying when this happened after how is that happening um these these professionals are often filming in a few different ways depending on the style of the show so like on a show like love is blind you'll see they have two different types they have the the seated [SPEAKER_02]: interviews where they're on the set and it's just big sit down thing and they're having this big long interview introducing themselves and saying they're in their experience of possible blood and then they also have a much more casual ones which we call like OTS on the flies where they're yes where they're sitting in bed or they're at the edge of the pool or there's so much more casual in that that you're filming as soon as the scene is over so you're like

[SPEAKER_02]: it's just happened to tell us what's right with your head, tell us how you're feeling, right after the video is what's going on. [SPEAKER_02]: This sit down confessionals that you'll see that are more formal like in a housewife show are often done a few times throughout the seasons or generally you'll let them film for like two to three weeks and then you'll do your first.

[SPEAKER_02]: full sit down interview and the producers walking them through what they want them to talk about in an interview. [SPEAKER_02]: So you prep for that interview, you have the questions and we're not showing them clips because people get very, very distracted by clips because they think, oh, I don't like how I look like what are people going to think and that's not how I remember this.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't, I don't like that. [SPEAKER_02]: I know what that to air instead of some producer walking them through it and part of what's so important in these shows is that producer relationship, like they're being a lot of trust [SPEAKER_02]: trust the producer to want to be vulnerable with them to want to show their emotions.

[SPEAKER_02]: So the previous job is really to get them back in that moment and feel those emotions again and let the viewer in to share that. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's set up a few different ways, but that's how like a traditional sit-down interview goes and then in OTF and then sometimes also when you're doing a sit-down interview as the show progresses and posts starts, posts might send you pick up lines to get from the cast.

[SPEAKER_02]: So they'll say, well, we actually didn't cover this well. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, can you get a pick up line [SPEAKER_02]: whatever it is. [SPEAKER_02]: So that's why sometimes you also notice that they're not in the right outfit, they should be. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's very interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: So in the part where someone recall something completely different and they're saying it and they're completely wrong, do they ever like roll the beautiful bean footage and say, hey, but you're wrong. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh gosh, sorry. [SPEAKER_02]: We definitely do do that sometimes, but if you're going to show them the clip, you generally want to see them watching it, if they make sense, like you'll give it to them on a phone, or you'll give it to them on a laptop to like get their library action, if they're reacting to it.

[SPEAKER_02]: But also you can sometimes verbally just remind them that's, that's, remember you actually were really nervous because remember when you talked right outside about how you didn't know how they were going to handle that you played with this day, and you were a little nervous. [SPEAKER_02]: You can also help them because sometimes it is just a genuine lapse where they're like, you know, I've been through a lot.

[SPEAKER_02]: These past few weeks and you can't help them remember if what actually happened. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense. [SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned the confessionals and I was thinking of a show survivor, which I just want to say, like, I love your story when you talked about it, like postpartum.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is a postpartum hack, guys. [SPEAKER_01]: Live said that you should associate your baby with a show when you're like, you know, just watching a show and I love that your show is survivor because I love survivor. [SPEAKER_01]: They know that. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's so good. [SPEAKER_01]: I know you haven't worked on it before, but how do you think the, I've always been curious about how the confessionals are filmed because I'm like, if someone finds an idol, like, how is the camera's there, they're talking, and like, how, how, how was the logistics of all of that with so many people on the island?

[SPEAKER_02]: Also, yeah, I think they're getting pulled for interviews really frequently. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, so I think there, there's, I know I, I also wonder about this for when people are searching for idols and they're gone, they're gone for so long and I'm like, how do they know they're not gone because they're doing one of their big, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: The down interview, so like, maybe that my guess is that the producers are very open about when they're pulling people they're saying, hey we're pulling Christian for the next hour. [SPEAKER_02]: I know they're not with production, because production tells us when they're leaving is my guess.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I do think often when they find those idols, they make sure that they're not going to ask them to talk. [SPEAKER_02]: If there's, yeah, we'll write there. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And another show that I love is the challenge and another thing I wonder is like, when you're doing all these hard things, climbing up a mountain, running through the rocks, what, how was the camera man doing that?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like what is happening in that? [SPEAKER_02]: They are athletes in and of themselves. [SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes there is like, I'd say when they're running most of the time, they're in a car. [SPEAKER_02]: So you're shooting out like the back of a car, something or like a some, which isn't always the safest, but I think they've gotten better with safety measures, but like, you know, you're getting a, [SPEAKER_02]: You're getting a car where you can, you can strap the car, wrap right in there, shooting out the back of a car.

[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, I can actually run with them. [SPEAKER_02]: But also some of them are legitimately athletes who can carry these really heavy cameras and shoot at the same time and also begin to do this with school challenges. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's crazy. [SPEAKER_01]: Because the last season, the final was up the mountain.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they were like, the elevation was killing them. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: is this happening right now? [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and they're not carrying any camera gear unlike the rest of the crew. [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, good host to them. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we have to talk about cast trips.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's like the most of the number one thing. [SPEAKER_01]: I know every time I've been to Bravacom a couple of times and people are always asking and I feel like I still have more questions on that. [SPEAKER_01]: So when they say, I'll give a specific example. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you watch Beverly Hills?

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: Worst. [SPEAKER_02]: I watch Potomac in Salt Lake City, but I know most roughly about Wales. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I think recently Rachel was like, hey, Doree, hey Kyle, let's go to the Hamptons. [SPEAKER_01]: And they're asking like, you know, I can make it happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll do whatever it has to take. [SPEAKER_01]: They already know they're going on that. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a huge cast trip, which I believe they already know, but for like a fly trip like that, I think Sutton went into visit her mom and she took Kyle and Garcel in the trip. [SPEAKER_01]: How does that work?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is that already planned? [SPEAKER_01]: Also, or is it really on the fly? [SPEAKER_02]: nine times out of ten it's planned, and especially when they're going out of the country they're going for a week or it's all like them going to Italy the last season like that obviously is very very people.

[SPEAKER_02]: I do think on a show like Beverly Hills where they have a lot of disposable income and them showing off that they have that disposable income is an important part of like the fabric of the show. [SPEAKER_02]: There's a chance I think that you don't [SPEAKER_02]: a few girls with me to the Hamptons.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have a house, you guys can film in the house, that the network might be able to move that a little quickly, but there is a certain amount of lead time they need in order to be able to get the permits to shoot there, you know, make sure the crew has lodging their hiring locals and they need to, they're does have to be some lead time.

[SPEAKER_02]: So any any really spontaneous things I would be very with. [SPEAKER_01]: So things like when they upgrade to first class, I think we've had a storyline where someone couldn't upgrade and do the existing first class. [SPEAKER_01]: Why is production not paying for that? [SPEAKER_01]: Production is cheap.

[SPEAKER_02]: Girl, they are cheap. [SPEAKER_02]: Which is, I've actually sometimes when I have, I know care operators and crew that won't go in like a helicopter. [SPEAKER_02]: If production's ever booking a helicopter, I'd say how to prove you like, I will not get in that helicopter because I don't want to explain this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Or like, yeah, getting [SPEAKER_02]: getting the best one you're getting the cheapest one, and I don't want to risk my life for just like totally fair enough. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they need these budgets are tight. [SPEAKER_02]: Whether that's fair enough is a different question, but there are like part of what makes reality so successful, so there are a lot cheaper to shoot than a scripted show.

[SPEAKER_02]: And part of that is the talent, but part of it is also how it's produced that. [SPEAKER_02]: My working theory is that I think they have like a most favorite nation's policy and over contract, where it's like, [SPEAKER_02]: you are getting economy fair tickets. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: And if you want to pay to upgrade, all you go for it, but we're not going to play that game without reperson. [SPEAKER_02]: Because it is, you know, it's a 10x difference for the most part if they're going somewhere. [SPEAKER_02]: So I think I think the rule for almost all of them is we'll pay for your economy.

[SPEAKER_02]: And if you want to upgrade it, it's on you. [SPEAKER_01]: OK. [SPEAKER_01]: So what is the plan and the process for you're going to host a trip? [SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to host a trip and if you host a trip, I'm going to get the house because recently on Potomac, Jiselle was like, oh, I'm just going to book the hotel.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have this. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god. [SPEAKER_01]: What is she kind of seen on all of that? [SPEAKER_02]: I feel so bad for Angel, actually, is mine. [SPEAKER_02]: I think she really, I think she really got put in a tough position. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm so glad you're into this class and full episode on cast trips because this is so fascinating.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I think for the most part, you're figuring out what the trip is going to be in pre-production. [SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes you know who's going to lead it. [SPEAKER_02]: But most of the time, it's just like, we're going to get all the girls to go to Hawaii. [SPEAKER_02]: But like, [SPEAKER_02]: Salt Lake City where they're going to Greece, like you know that Angie's going to leave that because she's Greece, she's Greek, and that's her whole thing is that, you know, they want to go.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like that makes sense. [SPEAKER_02]: But for the most part, you might, you might leave it open and say, we know we're going to get all the girls to Mexico. [SPEAKER_02]: We don't know who's going to leave it or how it's going to get there. [SPEAKER_02]: But we're going to make sure they can go to Mexico this week and we'll figure it out as we start filming.

[SPEAKER_02]: So any sort of filming and as you get closer to it, you want to find someone who makes sense to invite everyone. [SPEAKER_02]: So you don't want to have someone leading it who's in a fight with everyone because it would make any sense story wise for them to say, I've actually decided to forgive everyone and invite them all on this trip like that, that doesn't land.

[SPEAKER_02]: As well as you need to find someone who makes sense to bring everyone because the networks paint a lot for the trip. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So they want everyone there as much as they can. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm, I do, but I'm not all the way cut up. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but it will make sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: You don't need to be a cut up for my question. [SPEAKER_01]: They recently went to Mexico. [SPEAKER_01]: They had Shepp lead the trip. [SPEAKER_01]: Rodrigo was right there. [SPEAKER_01]: Rodrigo gave us a story saying, like, listen, I don't really speak the language. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really know much, but I do want to know more.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why would production choose Shepp to do the story versus Rodrigo having that story in saying, like, you know what? [SPEAKER_01]: about you know where I'm from on my heritage and then take them on that trip because that was just a head scratcher for me. [SPEAKER_02]: You should be a producer because that's not about the way more, way more compelling story.

[SPEAKER_02]: I imagine it's probably just like Shep is a bigger star on the show and they wanted to throw him a bone or something would literally be my guess that he's a bigger star, which is unfortunate but I think it's unfortunate And I know he travels a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I know that's the angle is like he's well-traveled But yeah, it's an opportunity southern charm has all these allegations like it was just an opportunity to just use that and that was just like an easy one Come on, yes, yes, and they let Rodrigo tell that story, but they didn't okay [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I wanted to go more about Potomac.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I know we feel bad for Angel, but what is your whole think on that? [SPEAKER_01]: When the producers made it there, and Angel wasn't there, wasn't there anything that we could do to rally to get her to the right place. [SPEAKER_01]: Like that was confusing. [SPEAKER_02]: That was a bizarre, like, I, that stumped me from a logistics perspective.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, how did no one know [SPEAKER_02]: How do they not bring them? [SPEAKER_02]: How do they not solve that? [SPEAKER_02]: How do they not see that coming? [SPEAKER_02]: Because surely there was a producer with. [SPEAKER_02]: Angel's car right because she has to go present her car so there's often a producer following a listening to what they're saying because he wanted to know what's going on.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I think maybe they were just in such a remote area that they kept losing phone service and that really was just reality playing out like that's that's my only guess because I yeah that that's not to me and when they were filming at the side of the gas station with all the other girls I was like they had to clear that on the spot that was not planned to probably never be like [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, plan to go stop at a gas station.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like they had to just make that up on the flying and get permission on the fly for sure. [SPEAKER_01]: And why do they end on that? [SPEAKER_01]: No, we don't know if they mean a plane. [SPEAKER_01]: Why did they tell us if they made their flight? [SPEAKER_02]: Probably they probably like right out of crew and like we're going to hit OT and we're like worst we'll just get on the plane.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's not worth the expense though. [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I felt like they didn't set a [SPEAKER_01]: hot is it true that you can tell when production doesn't like a talent? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think so. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, because I've worked with talent that were terrible to work with, but got, but we're great on the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and I think ultimately the network will always choose to make the most compelling version of the show they can and that doesn't [SPEAKER_02]: how they treat production doesn't factor into that, you know, it can be annoying and it can definitely be like, you know, we need to, you know, Lisa Barlow's always two hours late, so that's an extra cost that we have to be aware of if we're going to hire her like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think he's very real, but you know, you don't get to bring your grievances into the edit bay and like, air them out. [SPEAKER_02]: And then that works like, looks great. [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, this is not at all how we saw this going. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, [SPEAKER_02]: This is a favorite character like, like, like, you know, it wouldn't, it wouldn't, it just, you don't get to air your grievances using the networks money, unfortunately.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'll tell you why I say that up until the most recent season I always say that I felt like production didn't like Wendy and for many reasons they brought someone who was basically a similar prototype to her with Neca and I didn't understand that I'm Nigerian as well and I'm just like they brought her and she just had like [SPEAKER_01]: No story or her story was exactly Wendy and I didn't get what that was about and then the hot mic moment And then the flashbacks when it's especially now.

[SPEAKER_01]: This was a queues of something It was like they always had the way it was presented it seemed like it was focused on I have so much money And I'm spending it knowing everything that was going on again It could be because we know now that she's going through something similar and I'm nitpicking but even before that I felt like [SPEAKER_01]: didn't like her and they didn't air her like in the best light.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that she was the most beloved but that's why I asked that question. [SPEAKER_02]: I do think it's possible that like they they've they need someone to be like they need someone to be a specific character and they're kind of pushing them towards that direction. [SPEAKER_02]: I think that that is very possible.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know where the network's like we kind of see her as this other way that you guys that week and we kind of need her to fit that mold that we have in our heads like that that is very possible if you're [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: I like the little tidbits on your pod when you mentioned something like not wanting a private room in the restaurants because then it's like it seems very clear that this was planned you wanted to seem like hey let's have lunch.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about this. [SPEAKER_01]: So now they always have background people in the restaurant. [SPEAKER_01]: Who seem unmoved when water is thrown, when people are yelling and they're just like, it's a regular day. [SPEAKER_01]: Please tell me, are these paid actors? [SPEAKER_01]: Or were they told they had a time like guys, they might be a fight, do not react.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're not paid actors. [SPEAKER_02]: They can sometimes be members of production, but I think general fear seeing a crowded restaurant. [SPEAKER_02]: It's nine times out of time. [SPEAKER_02]: It really is the people who are just sitting there. [SPEAKER_02]: And you go up to them and you say, hey, we're actually going to be filming a show here.

[SPEAKER_02]: We might catch in the background or you can't decide this release. [SPEAKER_02]: You don't prep them because you actually want them. [SPEAKER_02]: If you can get a bystander looking like horrified as something that the captain is doing, like that's actually great. [SPEAKER_02]: Like we can love that if we can get that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's just like in the moment there's so many other things happening. [SPEAKER_02]: People get numb to the cameras very fast. [SPEAKER_02]: So first, come in with cameras, people are like, [SPEAKER_02]: Whoa, like pulling up their phone, like what's that? [SPEAKER_02]: So they will initially do that but we should take a good cut around that in the edit because we don't want to, you know, we try to get around that as much as possible because it's a fourth wall of it all.

[SPEAKER_02]: But then people can offer it really fast. [SPEAKER_02]: And like, people do, especially in the like, people are so used to people because they're as strong. [SPEAKER_02]: But like, they will react, but like less than you would think. [SPEAKER_02]: Like if you, if you were out to dinner and someone was being crazy next to, you're not gonna be like, [SPEAKER_02]: What's going on?

[SPEAKER_02]: Can I get in there? [SPEAKER_02]: You're kind of like, oh, like, I just want to keep my distance a little bit from this and like, I might live, I don't know, I might be like, what's going on? [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, that it's, you don't prep them and it is real people, people just unfaith and sometimes there is like a wall of like, you know, cameras and other things going on that they can't really see what's happening.

[SPEAKER_02]: unless it's like a really, really big blow up. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's not like an intentional while we build, but there's just a lot happening in there's lights, hands everywhere, and there's clear and you might just kind of miss it, honestly. [SPEAKER_01]: So what is the solution when people whip out their phones?

[SPEAKER_02]: You will ask them to put them down. [SPEAKER_02]: But you can't, you know, you just like, oh, so sorry, this is actually like a confidential set, can you put your phone in, but you can't actually stop them from doing. [SPEAKER_02]: But you can try and then on bigger shows, they often have security.

[SPEAKER_02]: If they're going, okay, and then those people are a little more intimidating than like, you know, associate pretty, so being like, hi, what do you mind not doing that if you were like, you're not me? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, this leads me to ask what are your thoughts on the state of reality TV now where everyone is speaking while the season is on.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're getting leaks ahead of time. [SPEAKER_01]: We're knowing what the storyline is. [SPEAKER_01]: I for one, I don't want to know. [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I don't watch previews because I don't want to know what's happening. [SPEAKER_01]: When I read books, I go in blind. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a person who just surprised me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And now it seems like even talent they're going on their podcast and when we're [SPEAKER_01]: They're doing interviews before the reunion is even out because then what is the point of the reunion? [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think about all of that? [SPEAKER_01]: Does it, are they looking at it?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I say they by production as it helps to show in publicity and so it doesn't matter. [SPEAKER_02]: So most of the time the cast have a clause in their contract. [SPEAKER_02]: This is they can't do any appearances like media appearances unless the network signs a [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Almost certainly the network has said, yes, we think this is a good idea.

[SPEAKER_02]: This will help peer the show to help bring more eyes to it. [SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's, that's their peer strategy for parents. [SPEAKER_02]: And I do wonder though with, as popular social media has become, is if they will try to turn around these edits faster, because, you know, a sprue of specifically so picky and post.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think Netflix now has a similar rep that these shows, you know, we're [SPEAKER_02]: nine months ago. [SPEAKER_02]: I do think it's it's pressuring them to kind of tighten that timeline between one of the episodes actually come out because you know so they yeah they they're really everything we talk about everything before it comes out.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I just thought it would be tighter. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why they get to speak. [SPEAKER_01]: And this brings me to the rules that they have for talent. [SPEAKER_01]: How are people able to skip reunions, almost recently, people come on reunions and say, I didn't watch the season.

[SPEAKER_01]: It pisses me off. [SPEAKER_02]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha [SPEAKER_02]: I know how direct I know and I think it honestly depends which I know is an annoyance answer but I think for a lot of them they get paid to be at the reunion so if someone's not coming they've decided that they don't want to get paid and you can you might be able to contractually enforce them to come but this is the tricky part with Rowney TV where it's like I can you know make you come and make you do this interview but that doesn't mean that you're going to give me anything that's actually usable or good like you can just

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm here. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so filled. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll answer your questions, but like I'm not actually going to tell you anything Interesting, and then they're technically fulfilling their contract, but they're not actually giving you anything you can do. [SPEAKER_02]: So it is it's tough [SPEAKER_01]: Mimi.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what was the end. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, really. [SPEAKER_02]: She was don't over it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she was less switch gears to below deck. [SPEAKER_01]: Are you watching the most current season? [SPEAKER_02]: I am. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm maybe two of those behind, but I'm okay. [SPEAKER_02]: It's the down under season, which they've just decided down into this.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they're not, they're not, they're not even down there anymore. [SPEAKER_02]: But yes, I'm watching down there. [SPEAKER_02]: We got Captain Jason. [SPEAKER_02]: We're down there. [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, I was Australian. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like sure. [SPEAKER_02]: Fine. [SPEAKER_01]: My question, we're fine because it's the beginning.

[SPEAKER_01]: The whole Alicia, Ellie, Switcherrew, why? [SPEAKER_01]: The hell didn't we just send that girl home and grow up in Alicia? [SPEAKER_01]: Because she's annoying me so much and it was like, she's whining about everything, she wants to be a chef, but didn't go to school, culinary school and is not improving her skills and we're moving her around like, I know it's for the drama, but tell us what you know about like the casting for below deck, especially.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that decision also I fell into so bizarre because I'll see Ella what's her name? [SPEAKER_02]: Eleo? [SPEAKER_02]: Eleo? [SPEAKER_02]: She doesn't work today in her life in the galley. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, how does this make any, that's why I was really like, this is seems so heavy-handed by production that you know.

[SPEAKER_02]: It would have to be like, we'll have this person come in who has no galley experience we'll put him in the galley, like, like, that just seemed so heavily produced to me. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why they did it honestly. [SPEAKER_02]: It was a weird choice. [SPEAKER_02]: It was, I agree with you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like this feels so bizarre to the show's fabric of being with you. [SPEAKER_02]: I've actually heard that that show of the many Broadway shows is one of the latest in production. [SPEAKER_02]: Like they don't, they don't step in as much, they really do let them just go. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's much more hands off than your other reality shows, but yeah, but [SPEAKER_02]: I thought that was also a bizarre choice.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they just thought she was a great character and thought she was going to be more interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't found for doing this interesting, but... [SPEAKER_02]: She, Alicia or Ellie? [SPEAKER_02]: Alicia, I think Ellie's always like, I mean, she's a lunatic, but she's great, David, you know what I'm saying?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you can't doubt that. [SPEAKER_01]: So, I guess going back, do you think that was pre-planned? [SPEAKER_01]: Like it was like, we're gonna move Alicia around, or it was just that was the natural progression of things. [SPEAKER_01]: Because to me, it felt like we have to get Ellie in any ways and this is the way we're gonna get her in.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it was pre-planned, but I think they likely had a conversation with Ellie and I think they do this. [SPEAKER_02]: We're turning cast where they're like, in the chance we would want you to come back, are you available and they kind of pre-negotiate with them?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think statistically speaking, someone ends up being fired, someone ends up not working out, whether it's a decorist or a chef or whoever, I think they do have a contingency plan, knowing that they're gonna wanna replace them with someone who's [SPEAKER_02]: felt friendly who they can get really fast.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I do think they have like, you know, even the next round of the cast that they didn't go with or returning cast member and then they can decide who to pull in. [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't think it was pre-planned, but I do think they'd talk to Ellie before we start in for sure. [UNKNOWN]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I have a slightly what may some may consider an inappropriate question, but it is what it is. [SPEAKER_01]: It goes across all shows, but I thought about it for below deck, because for below deck is such close quarters, and we get to see them sleep, we get to see them change their clothes and they have to change.

[SPEAKER_01]: into their what they called it white stripes or whatever it's home. [SPEAKER_01]: And I just got to think because sometimes they sleep in their underwear and they're filming, they have that camera overhead. [SPEAKER_01]: We have such out there characters and below deck. [SPEAKER_01]: What if one of them decides they're going to jerk off in stuff?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is the footage just there with the producers? [SPEAKER_01]: And they just have, I mean, they're not going to air it obviously, but they have it. [SPEAKER_02]: They just they have to watch people. [SPEAKER_02]: They fully have that and they often like they're watching those live surveillance cameras, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like they're in the boat. [SPEAKER_02]: They're watching us all happen and they have little tiles about the surveillance cameras. [SPEAKER_02]: They can see what's happening. [SPEAKER_02]: And they're fully like, well, those two are having sex. [SPEAKER_02]: And like, I think, you know, you're not everyone's not like, Oh, let's watch it.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're kind of like, well, just move along. [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I mean, I think and also like, they know cameras with their side. [SPEAKER_02]: But I hope if someone's going to do that, they would go to the show. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, no, that footage does absolutely exist, for sure. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is my biweekly you guys hear me say this all the time, Kudos to everyone who does reality TV because it is not for the faint of heart.

[SPEAKER_02]: I agree. [SPEAKER_02]: I can never do it. [SPEAKER_02]: I can never do it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, switching to cooking shows, do you watch culinary class wars? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, that's the new one right with Padma. [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no. [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is that's the, no, no, no. [SPEAKER_01]: Harris is American America's culinary cup. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, cool. [SPEAKER_01]: Classboards is a Korean one. [SPEAKER_01]: It's fine on Netflix. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was just going to say that because I wanted to know if you were an off high was produced.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's such a large scale. [SPEAKER_01]: And I had so many questions about that. [SPEAKER_01]: But I haven't seen it. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I love a Korean cooking show that my husband also loves such a show. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, watch out. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, check it out. [SPEAKER_01]: There are two seasons and culinary classrooms is so good.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the cooking shows how do they stalk their pantries? [SPEAKER_01]: It seems like filled with everything they might need, every accessory, every gadget, like how does that work? [SPEAKER_02]: And it's yes, they have a culinary producer who is in charge of exactly that and their team is in charge of shopping for everything, making sure everything's stuck.

[SPEAKER_02]: They also often like will run the [SPEAKER_02]: practice the challenges for them if they need them to be like, is this actually, can we actually do this in an hour and a half or whatever it is? [SPEAKER_02]: And one of the first shows I worked out was a cooking show and it was the best because I was making like, you know, $100 a day and at the end of the shoot, they would have all this leftover produce where, you know, because they have to buy everything because they might eat $100 a day, they might eat $500, they over buy so much [SPEAKER_02]: about this fresh stuff and then they will just skim it to the crew at the end of the day.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, oh, I don't know if my crush is this week. [SPEAKER_02]: This is amazing. [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, they do, they have someone in charge of that entire department whose job is to shop all that stuff and make sure that every cut has, you know, what they've agreed with what they have, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay, so they have a conversation with them and it's like, hey, I might need because it seems like whatever the challenge is going to be it's on the fly so they don't know but what if someone wants like this one random ingredient that I think that they don't get it they have like a standard list of like here's what's going to be in the pantry, you know you're standard XYZ but specialty I think I've top chef it is there maybe later in the season they're allowed to bring a couple specialty ingredients with them like for the finale.

[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, they won't go if you're like, I need this one specific thing for this quick fire whenever they're like, yeah, you have to use what's in the pantry. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: And then for some of our house. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there's so much going on that I'm just going to let them have their drama until we know if they're in on it or if they're not because the way too much speculation that's going on.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what I'm interested in is why. [SPEAKER_01]: do they make them drive every weekend versus getting cars? [SPEAKER_01]: I want to say maybe it's for the conversation and they might pick up on that, but it's usually just a snippet. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not really like a major storyline I feel, but is that the reason why?

[SPEAKER_02]: I have a theory. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: I think most importantly, it keeps the illusion of like, [SPEAKER_02]: We're all saying in a share house, these were our friends. [SPEAKER_02]: We're just driving up for the weekend. [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that is a very important part of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think sometimes that a P.A. [SPEAKER_02]: takes over, though, and drives them, and that they don't actually drive the whole way. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, they start, they start the drive. [SPEAKER_02]: They get the consequences, they need, and then they let them sit in the back for the rest of the drive.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's my, oh my God. [SPEAKER_01]: I love that theory. [SPEAKER_01]: Theory. [SPEAKER_01]: because that is a lot Friday to Sunday, Monday, every week after working. [SPEAKER_01]: Too much. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think the past wouldn't go for that. [SPEAKER_02]: So I think there's, because when you're filming someone in a car, you have a follow-up car behind them, it's really nice to talk and be like, actually can't talk about this.

[SPEAKER_02]: And when you need to cover this and make sure you're boss. [SPEAKER_02]: So I think there's probably an extra junior producer or an AP or PA in that car. [SPEAKER_02]: And they, after they've done their beats, they say, [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, Brian, we'll let blah, blah, blah dry for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's fine. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay, I like your theory. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll go with that. [SPEAKER_01]: So production producers, they get a bad rip. [SPEAKER_01]: It is what it is. [SPEAKER_01]: When anything happens, it's like, it's producers. [SPEAKER_01]: They did this, they did that.

[SPEAKER_01]: When you worked as a producer, did you ever feel guilty? [SPEAKER_02]: I did sometimes. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I definitely, there were definitely moments, I think seven years, which in particular, which I know is really worth it. [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't, that one was, that one was a bit weird for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I, they were early. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, or was there, yeah, and I was young and it was weird. [SPEAKER_02]: I do, I do think, you know, on these shows, you really can't say that people know what they're getting into now for the most part, but they're definitely moments, where I was like, is this, I don't love, [SPEAKER_02]: this right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Should I? [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, yeah, I think a lot of careers can have a gray area that where I'm like, that's true. [SPEAKER_02]: This influencer selling me this thing that they don't actually use, like, that's in their best interest, not mine. [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, so I think there's gray area and most most things that people are making money off of.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I agree. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you said something interesting, like most people don't know what they're getting into, because that is the argument people would say, well, they know what they're signing up for. [SPEAKER_01]: It's reality TV. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just tricky because, again, the reason I wouldn't do it is because of all the things I've heard, of all the things they say about reality TV.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think you said on an episode that maybe the reality reckoning might be a good thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, to happen a reality TV and keep wondering, I don't know if we the audience, we reality TV show lovers are ready for what that really truly means because in some way we're complicit.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we like to say this person did that, that presented that, but we're also part of it. [SPEAKER_02]: I totally agree. [SPEAKER_02]: I think and I like the America's next time on a documentary, but such a good [SPEAKER_02]: conversation starter because I was like we all we all loved this at the time.

[SPEAKER_02]: And yes, like they made these choices to do these outlandish things. [SPEAKER_02]: But there what there was part of it that that was because the viewers were that's what we would tune into. [SPEAKER_02]: It was the crazy stuff. [SPEAKER_02]: And I know you said you don't like mess, but most people do like mess.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what the data consistently shows is that people want to watch people argue for reasons. [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, it's [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, let me clarify. [SPEAKER_01]: I like mess, but not like my number one reason. [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm watching a dating show I want the love and mess balance out not like that's fair Mess like where love is blind is headed and it's like I just want them to fall in love That's all still fair.

[SPEAKER_02]: You need some good love stories in there too to make this. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's totally fair. [SPEAKER_02]: I grew yes [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's talk about your time on maps. [SPEAKER_01]: How did you, was it, well, you were working for kinetic at that time, and you got a approach just to do maps?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I was working in the office and they were like, hey, do you want to go live in Atlanta for six weeks? [SPEAKER_02]: We'll pay you nothing and you'll work this this a week and I was like a hundred percent yes sign me up And it was my first like associate producer role, which yeah, it was so fun I and I had the best time and I'd love it later so much and like I'm at some amazing people there But yeah, I came right after the weddings because I think they'd fired someone that I was for placing [SPEAKER_02]: But I came right after the weddings and was there through the whole experiment and then through there a final decision, which was Covaisey, may you see where you assigned the person or you were just I was with a couple I was with Sam and Neil

[SPEAKER_01]: You got them? [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_01]: OK, so what is Castle like? [SPEAKER_01]: One of the number one questions on maps is like the matchmaking. [SPEAKER_01]: Did it predict the experts really do it? [SPEAKER_01]: Or did it predictors do the matchmaking? [SPEAKER_02]: I do think the experts have a very heavy hand in the initial.

[SPEAKER_02]: selects. [SPEAKER_02]: Especially with the concept of that show being like you're being scientifically matched like that was such a big part of it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Was that that's how we were that's how they were getting people to say yes to marriage was like these experts and science are doing it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you should say yes to it because it's like these experts have done all this work and blah blah and I do think a lot of that is very, very real. [SPEAKER_02]: Ultimately in any show those final [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: I think I think most likely the experts are saying we think these few girls and these few gals, but all there these guys these girls would be great matches and then now it's kind of like let's let's let's do these ones.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's my guess on how that works. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: It correct me if I'm wrong. [SPEAKER_01]: That was the season where they gave them money to find a place to rent to live. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Vanessa tried to do that in my brain. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, I forgot about.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Vanessa was so beautiful. [SPEAKER_02]: What is she doing now? [SPEAKER_01]: She's an LA. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to show her. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and she didn't go spin off with David. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I don't remember those specifics.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I do remember, yes, they didn't move in. [SPEAKER_02]: There was a house rented. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think I was going to ask like, did they come up with a house for them? [SPEAKER_01]: Or did they really have to look for them? [SPEAKER_01]: Because looking for a place to live is a bitch.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know how they would have wanted that. [SPEAKER_02]: It's mostly, like, a production would be finding them options. [SPEAKER_02]: Because it also has to be filmed friendly and only specific places can sign off to being filmed friendly. [SPEAKER_02]: Like if they're like, we found this great apartment and they will be filming it and that's a non-starter.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's mostly, [SPEAKER_02]: Product, I don't actually remember how that works, but I like how it would it would be production saying Here's here's a few options. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think and I'm saying okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or nay How did it feel okay? [SPEAKER_01]: Did you know the decision that Neil was gonna make before?

[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't we didn't actually know what either of them were gonna say [SPEAKER_01]: really, that's interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: For those of you who didn't watch, for season three, those summary of it all is that Samantha was really, really, really, really, really mean to Neil. [SPEAKER_01]: And because he said he was not a man.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then on Decision Day, she had a turnaround, said yes, and Neil was like, nope, thank you, and we're like, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, he said, but he did not, he would not tell us his answer. [SPEAKER_02]: Good. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's part of why she stormed off and got so upset and she went to a car that wasn't lit and that was really bad because we couldn't see her face because we didn't know that she was going to run away because we didn't know if he was going to say no, then she was going to run.

[SPEAKER_01]: How do you deal with talent when they're not giving you what you need from them? [SPEAKER_02]: it's tough. [SPEAKER_02]: And it depends on the show. [SPEAKER_02]: I think shows like married at first sight. [SPEAKER_02]: You are really leaning into the experiment part of the show and you know, reminding them that they came here for a reason and that this all can help with their growth and that they need to, you know, they want to open up on this part of the journey and let people in because that's why they came here in the first place.

[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas on a show where the cast has been around a little longer, it's a bit more docu-so-be, more like a summer house or housewives. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: You can be as blunt as being like, hey, you guys aren't being interesting right now. [SPEAKER_02]: This is not going to be a good scene.

[SPEAKER_02]: But what can we do to change that? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And it really depends on, it depends on the show and it also depends on the style of the producer and what you think the cast will respond best, too. [SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's basically like it's different if it's like a one-off, like whenever we're going to see this maps again, or like a housewife's where it's a continued, you know, are they trained to be on TV?

[SPEAKER_02]: Or are they really just like, you know, during the headlights? [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just gonna have one. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: My final maps question is, are there incentives to say yes, or like love is blind to make it to the altar or something? [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know for sure, but I think on love is blind, my guess is that they get a payment for going to the altar.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like they get, I think I believe they get episodic payments and get into the altar as another episodic payment that they get. [SPEAKER_02]: So if they don't go to the altar, they don't get that extra payment. [SPEAKER_02]: It's my guess, because otherwise, I'm like, Barrel is people doing this because this is like a lot of work.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so I think it has to be money is fine. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, um, they need to offer them more money. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and my mind is not making it to the altar. [SPEAKER_01]: It's literally called love is mine and the the high purpose is making it to the altar. [SPEAKER_01]: So when people are dropping out, I'm like, yeah, get it.

[SPEAKER_01]: You respect them. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but make it to the altar and yeah, black is respect the altar. [SPEAKER_01]: Tell them how the altar. [SPEAKER_02]: No, I totally agree. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think in the earlier seasons, they were more successful with everyone making it to the altar, but also made another disfollowing more couples.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess, hard to say. [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, that's my guess. [SPEAKER_02]: And then I've also, this is a legit, can't confirm. [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, on Love Is Blind, they'll all break up at the same time. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you've noticed. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll be like, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So mind of sanding is that the network will cover their cost of divorce up to a certain point. [SPEAKER_02]: which helps incentivize them to say yes, because if they say yes in that moment, they aren't on the hook for pain for their divorce. [SPEAKER_02]: So they can say yes, they're it courage them to get married without being on the hook for that divorce.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I think, Alexia Alexis and the guy who had the kid together who just divorced, [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, oh, from Dallas. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, well, I can't read it. [SPEAKER_02]: Alexis, Alexis, Alexis. [SPEAKER_02]: Alexis, and I don't think they got their divorce paid for it. [SPEAKER_02]: Because I think it'd been long.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they did. [SPEAKER_02]: There was a season where a couple of people who had stayed together got, they had the same time. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that is because they're coming to the point where the network won't pay for their divorce anymore. [SPEAKER_02]: And they're saying we're not going to proceed.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to have to know for the stores. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, not that makes sense. [SPEAKER_01]: I was thinking you meant within the show and I was thinking it was like a domino effect like when these people aren't happy and they're sharing and someone was like, no, I want to go until like, oh my god, he's free.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be ready to do. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you? [SPEAKER_01]: Do worse. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Have you kept up with masks? [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I have budgeted new version. [SPEAKER_02]: No, but I've heard it's I've heard it's crazy and Australia specifically is where I've heard it's really gone off.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Australia, how is off the rails? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: It seems like the format has gone much more like love is blind to ask where they're all hanging out together after. [SPEAKER_01]: um okay so for Australia right that is pure mess do not go there looking for love even I don't go there looking for love because that is not they're going there to be um famous it's very obvious like there's there's a pipeline they go on there they cheat on each other they do musical chairs they date each other and it's just a hot mess um over there but it's it's more couples it's 11 [SPEAKER_01]: And they have a different completely different format because they meet I like their format because they meet and every week They have a dinner party.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's also four episodes a week Sunday to Wednesday So they have a dinner party every week where everyone talks about all the reasons they're mad at each other Then they have a commitment ceremony in front of the experts So even the dinner party the experts are not part of it. [SPEAKER_01]: They're just watching and taking notes [SPEAKER_01]: Then the commitment ceremony, then each of them come up to the couch and then they talk about all their things, then you have to say if you want to stay or leave.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you can leave every week, but if one person says stay, even if the other says leave, you have to stay. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, so it's pretty, it's just a lot of episodes, I think that's what there's a lot of people and it's just hard to find here, so I'm watching bits, I'm watching these ways, so yeah, but the one here with Peacock, I think I think the news season is probably going to lean towards that because [SPEAKER_01]: All the experts are gone now.

[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know if they're completely removing the experts, or if we're getting new experts, we know nothing. [SPEAKER_02]: So I think they're going to get new younger messier experts. [SPEAKER_02]: I think they have to have experts on the show, because I think that, again, that science match-making part is an important part of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I think they'll have to, I think they'll just hire slightly [SPEAKER_01]: I wondered if they were going to get people that were known. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to say famous, because I would drive up the budget, but just people who have holdy. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, household names are something.

[SPEAKER_02]: And in an orlite influencer, doctor type scenario, for sure. [SPEAKER_02]: I think we'll see some of those taken around for sure. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm open to change, I'm open to change, I'm open to change, I'm open to change, I'm open to change, I'm in person, I've got to be a friend, yeah, I mean I think it's, I think it's a good pivot in the sense that that shows viewership here was so down and they've had such excess with love as blind that I think they're trying to replicate it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I guess, I guess we'll watch it together, find out. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I mean, I wish I wish it success. [SPEAKER_01]: I was kind of disappointed with last season on peacock. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel they have the splash. [SPEAKER_01]: There was no water cooler moments. [SPEAKER_01]: No one was really like.

[SPEAKER_01]: There was a pregnancy and they chose to reveal that in the preview. [SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't understand why didn't make that a mic drop. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a sensitive situation, but at the time we didn't know, because she eventually lost the kid. [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, like, we've never had someone get pregnant during the experiment.

[SPEAKER_01]: But they revealed that to us, and the previews had been before the season aired. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, that might have, maybe that's why they didn't do that. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, now that I think about it, because of how it ended up. [SPEAKER_02]: And you have it ended. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's still, wow.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's why are they still together in the couple? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh boy. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: No, they're not so well. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll see. [SPEAKER_01]: So we will wrap up the episode with some listener questions that I got and the first one was how do individual producers get assigned to cast members?

[SPEAKER_01]: Are they paired up at random or is there more deliberate process to match them? [SPEAKER_02]: There's often a more deliberate process on shows where you are assigned to a cast or team. [SPEAKER_02]: So sometimes it'll be a discussion with leadership of like, this is actually our most senior producer.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we think this is the toughest, this is going to be the toughest cast. [SPEAKER_02]: So they're going to go together. [SPEAKER_02]: Or they have this really specific background that's going to click really well with these cast. [SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to assign them. [SPEAKER_02]: But it's definitely a thoughtful thing, specifically [SPEAKER_02]: the main producer who's going to like hold their relationship and leave their interviews you're definitely deliberately assigning them whether it's based on, you know, that you think you'll think they'll get along the best or you think they're the most in common or just purely skill-level thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: How if at all our producers involved with casting and editing? [SPEAKER_02]: It depends. [SPEAKER_02]: Castings are different. [SPEAKER_02]: There are casting producers, but they don't often go into the field. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, so casting generally, you're not a part of by the time you're brought on the show is cast, and you're in pre-production and you're ready to go.

[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot of crossover there, but there can be a crossover between the fields, producers, and the producers imposed, which I think is always the best kind of producer, because you're thinking about the etiquette while you're in the field. [SPEAKER_02]: But, um, a post, a story producer and reality TV, [SPEAKER_02]: Ops, ideally, they're actually cutting the episode, so they do actually put together the bones of it, and then it goes to meditate, and the editor who makes it really like, you know, they put in the music, they put in the right B-roll, they help heighten the story and really put that like beautiful polish on it, that really makes it so good, but the story producer is generally

[SPEAKER_02]: like this is the story we want to tell. [SPEAKER_02]: We want to highlight this art for this person. [SPEAKER_02]: We want to show this person on the down in this episode and they have kind of the whole season in their head and you're working really closely with the editor to tell that story to give them network notes and things like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: You answered just maybe think of a question. [SPEAKER_01]: So this is a me question, how do producers get flashbacks? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, how do they remember what to go back to a million years to go? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm assuming if it's the same person, what if they leave?

[SPEAKER_01]: What if they don't work there anymore? [SPEAKER_01]: Who remembers this stuff? [SPEAKER_01]: It's like magic to me. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it's all, there's like, they get everything transcribed. [SPEAKER_02]: So there's, you know, transfrutual to everything. [SPEAKER_02]: Even if the producers have all moved on, there might be a networking's act that's been on the show a very long time or even just a assistant editor who's been on the show a very long time.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, oh, by the way, I remember to be have this clip here if you want to put it in. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it could be anyone who remembers it. [SPEAKER_02]: Or someone was even watching the show at that time and it's now working on it. [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, oh, I remembered this one clip.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, that would be fun to bring in here. [SPEAKER_02]: So it really can come from anyone. [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, that's so cool. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, what sorts of background checks, if any, or don't know, I'm sorry that if any, maybe you know, I don't know on cast members, like is it like debt, employment, history, assets, legal history, what is done in them?

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it depends on the show, um, yeah, but there is depending on, you know, what level of vulnerability they're going to be in, but they do do background checks and they [SPEAKER_02]: how does that happen, but you do, you do generally have to have them all psychobelds. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the level of background check, I wonder how it is different for marriage shows actually, which I don't really, because they're in this league, especially married at first sight, we're in this league buying in contract like, yeah, do they need to make sure, I don't know, I actually, I really don't know the answer to that, but if everyone is background checked in psychobelds before they take it on site.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and some of my listeners are jaded because maps the Dallas season on the way to the honeymoon abroad got arrested. [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, Oh, whoops, hip-hop say that's an up say. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, how did we miss this? [SPEAKER_01]: Why was this not realized during the background?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, gosh. [SPEAKER_01]: OK. [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks. [SPEAKER_01]: What kind of discussions go on around who will be a villain in a reality show? [SPEAKER_01]: And how much does the edit shape the villain versus their actions on average? [SPEAKER_01]: I really love this question. [SPEAKER_02]: That's a great question.

[SPEAKER_02]: I look at it as like, we could shape anyone to be a villain, right? [SPEAKER_02]: We could take, we could take, we could take anything you say in an interview, you know, and chop it up and make it look terrible. [SPEAKER_02]: That's absolutely possible. [SPEAKER_02]: But it's often really hard, and you need the scene work to back up whatever anyone's seen.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, I could take any interview and cut it up and make them say it's terrible things. [SPEAKER_02]: But if there's nothing to back that up with them work with them doing that with the other tasks, then it's not really a good story to tell. [SPEAKER_02]: So we don't [SPEAKER_02]: decide, you know, close our eyes and go, this person's gonna be the villain, and that's the way it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: We are, in most cases, really leaning into what their behavior is and how it's being taken by the other cast. [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, when someone's repeatedly awful and you're watching that, like, then you're like, okay, this guy's, you know, he's not gonna get a good at it. [SPEAKER_02]: He's not looking so good, we're gonna lean into that, like, crest on the slices, he's gonna fall off his spine.

[SPEAKER_02]: Very clearly, they were like, this guy's a mess, he's, [SPEAKER_02]: not great like he but they didn't at the beginning decide who's going to be a villain he just kept showing villainous behavior and they didn't let me edit it and make sure that we saw all them out for what it was. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah yeah I always say this like you you have to provide the material exactly to make that you know happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay so final listener question is how much accuracy was there [SPEAKER_02]: of a lot of it was really over-exaggerated. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that show was tough because it was created by someone who would work on the bachelor. [SPEAKER_01]: Or in the bachelor's. [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it got a lot more credit than it probably should have.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I know. [SPEAKER_02]: I know. [SPEAKER_02]: Because yeah, I don't. [SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully in there aren't parts that I saw around like, that's, that's, I understand how that, you know, that way. [SPEAKER_02]: I probably did happen. [SPEAKER_02]: But for the most part, like, [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and I was actually rewatching it on the podcast for a little bit because it was so interesting to rewatch with now having worked in it because I hadn't really worked when it was on the air and a lot of it is really really overexaggerated.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think people. [SPEAKER_02]: want to believe that producers are this crazy extra malicious like evil people and I'm like, you know, they're all like you would like like, oh, I'm like they're really nice. [SPEAKER_02]: They like working with real people. [SPEAKER_02]: They want to tell cool stories.

[SPEAKER_02]: They like, you know, not sitting at a destined to five, but they're not these psychological warfare in saying people who have these crazy agendas. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they really are for the most part like, you know, have nice families and just want to go home with the end of the day.

[SPEAKER_01]: But do you understand why people think that? [SPEAKER_01]: Of course. [SPEAKER_01]: Of course. [SPEAKER_01]: Of course. [SPEAKER_02]: Of course. [SPEAKER_02]: I totally get that. [SPEAKER_02]: And I do think, you know, they are humans and humans make mistakes. [SPEAKER_02]: And when they are professors who have made huge oversights in really bad situations, and I do think she'll be held accountable along the production company and network that put them in those positions so that happen.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I do totally understand what I'll say as well. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Before I let you go, could you share with us the most fun thing about being a reality TV producer and the least fun thing about being a reality TV producer? [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, the most fun for me was getting to travel a lot and getting paid while traveling is very fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: Getting to work with real people is very fun. [SPEAKER_02]: Like I really genuinely loved so much of the cast. [SPEAKER_02]: I worked with and getting to help them, [SPEAKER_02]: tell these stories that I knew would change their lives for the better was so fun. [SPEAKER_02]: And I really loved being a part of that and being welcomed into their lives so wonderfully.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that part is absolutely amazing. [SPEAKER_02]: The worst part was just like boring logistics stuff, honestly. [SPEAKER_02]: I felt like I wasn't working on shows that were morally gray by the end, but it was just that you're, [SPEAKER_02]: your base days, 12 hours, and you're often working before and after that, to make sure the cast have what they need for the next day.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's just really grueling. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's almost all freelance work. [SPEAKER_02]: So you don't know when the next job is coming, you don't have to need to take the show that's going to put you on the road in the middle of nowhere, when you don't want to go, and you want to stay with your family.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that part of it becomes really challenging, especially as much as I got. [SPEAKER_02]: and wanted to prioritize different things that became really tough for me. [SPEAKER_02]: Anywhere, your point here, you hand over your lives to these shows I missed a wedding once because they wouldn't let me leave, like that part of it's really tough.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can't imagine, like when we are watching a scene as Christmas, that's a holiday and they're there that have to film that. [SPEAKER_02]: Like Salt Lake City, when they were all having the Mother's Day meltdown, I was like, [SPEAKER_01]: there's there's 40 people with you guys who also all have mothers and you know they're spending them away from their moms also so yeah it's definitely that part also yeah like I think 90 day fiance they have to go to all these different countries and different places for God knows how long so yeah [SPEAKER_01]: Well, this was so much fun live.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm hoping I can convince you to come back and answer more questions for this before we go can you share with people where they can find you? [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I'm on Instagram and TikTok at It's Live On Air and then I have a podcast that should be in all their favorite podcast platforms.

[SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about all of this in so much more. [SPEAKER_02]: So come check out their FeeFanity this Interest student. [SPEAKER_02]: We do lots of deep types over there. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I'll link it also in the show notes for you guys to check it out. [SPEAKER_01]: So you guys know what to find me.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is also called MAFS and all of the platforms. [SPEAKER_01]: Please give me a 5 star rating on Apple podcasts and Spotify and stay subscribed so you don't miss out on any new episodes. [SPEAKER_01]: Until next time, thank you for coming and joining me live. [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much for having me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Bye guys.

Behind The Scenes of Reality TV w/Liv (a former Reality TV producer)

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