Couples Therapy: S5 Ep. 5 w/Jenn

[SPEAKER_01]: Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of Tain Talks. [SPEAKER_01]: I am your host, Tain. [SPEAKER_01]: Here is another episode of Couples Therapy Season 5 episode 5. [SPEAKER_01]: Here with me for Couples Therapy is Jen. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, not like we're doing Couples Therapy together, just like.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait, that would be lovely. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to about this show. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi Jen, how are you? [SPEAKER_00]: I am, I'm not gonna lie. [SPEAKER_00]: It's been a bit of an emotional roller coaster and not because of these people on this dumb show, but because the New York Nix have won.

[SPEAKER_00]: the NBA finals, and that was amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: We're also watching the World Cup, and so feelings up and down as I watch some of these teams that I've never heard of, not never heard of, I know the country. [SPEAKER_01]: The good life. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but you get like the backstory of the teams and like hating broke my heart because they were talking about how much the team has to go through to to train and how difficult it was to make it, and then they lost, and I was just like, what's happening?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's good. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I mentioned another episode and reality show rumbles last week that Nigeria didn't make it. [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, it's a big, big, big, huge personality for Nigeria, which is soccer, which we call football, but we did not qualify. [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: It's free for all for everybody.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like everywhere wins. [SPEAKER_01]: You're all, I don't care. [SPEAKER_00]: Why could you lie in it if you get this? [SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean, there's a couple of faves here. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm rooting for Ivory Coast is gonna play just to see how that goes. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just you never know what you're gonna get.

[SPEAKER_01]: Could it be Germany? [SPEAKER_01]: Argentina won the last World Cup. [SPEAKER_01]: say, who could it be? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the one country, you know, I shouldn't say it because then they're going to win, it's just like England. [SPEAKER_01]: They're always so close, but they just never are able to close the deal, but I shouldn't say definitively that they're not going to win because the one time.

[SPEAKER_01]: I say it, they are just gonna take it and make me look stupid. [SPEAKER_01]: So anyways, but yes, it is fun times. [SPEAKER_01]: They'll watch parties everywhere. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just sports is fun. [SPEAKER_01]: Even if you don't like it, like listen, I, the one sport you cannot, I will try anything once.

[SPEAKER_01]: Spaceball, that is, [SPEAKER_00]: I can't watch it on TV, but it's really fun in person, especially when you go with people because it's at a pace where you can still talk to your friends and still enjoy your company, but then not be tapped out of the game. [SPEAKER_00]: So I can't watch it on TV, but in person I think it's fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: I hate to break it to you. [SPEAKER_01]: My experiences are in person. [SPEAKER_01]: I used to live in Texas, went to the Rangers game. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, okay, because of their, wouldn't that happen? [SPEAKER_01]: Work for a company where the higher-ups really love baseball and our head office at the time was in Chicago and any time they wanted to take us out.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was to see, I want to say red songs. [SPEAKER_01]: Is that them, yeah? [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not like it wasn't a good experience. [SPEAKER_01]: It was like in a box of all the food you can get, all the drinks are still I would up to go home. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, it's not for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, I apologize, I know, but it's just, but my point was, even though that's a hike for me to watch baseball, but when he comes to like championships and like the finals and there is nothing, there's very few feelings that feel like when a team wins. [SPEAKER_01]: you know. [SPEAKER_00]: And even if it's just not your team.

[SPEAKER_00]: So watch people come together like watch people barn like I we watched it at a bar last night and I talked to people I never would have talked to just because they were so they saw that I was happy so they got happy and then they were asking me questions about the next and I was like oh I don't know what's saying my dad was the fan.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really just rooting because my dad's no longer with us. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but then it was just nice to have that bond and then just to see the different watch parties in New York and I see how happy everybody was like I think I love that part about sports is that it brings people and communities together I love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm also just seeing like hard work pay off. [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's not easy to be an athlete. [SPEAKER_01]: Like you see all the things that, you know, all the work, all the blood, all the sweat and then sometimes you come short and then finally it pays off. [SPEAKER_01]: The mix had been waiting since like what?

[SPEAKER_01]: They called it by for the finals in 1999. [SPEAKER_01]: That was the last time it's been a long time. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just nice. [SPEAKER_01]: And like you said, you're just happy for them. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I've talked many times. [SPEAKER_01]: I am a EPL fan in soccer. [SPEAKER_01]: My team is Manchester United and I really, really hate Arsenal, but for the first time, I've won it so many years.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I always wish them bad. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm very open about it. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't wish them anything. [SPEAKER_01]: One of the greatest joys on my life was when they were set to win. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, one of the seasons and lesser came from behind from nowhere. [SPEAKER_01]: Jimmy Vardy shot out to you, took it from them.

[SPEAKER_01]: They were second. [SPEAKER_01]: I was filled with joy because they lost at the last minute. [SPEAKER_01]: Even worse when you come second. [SPEAKER_01]: But this time, there was no stopping them. [SPEAKER_01]: They were going to have it. [SPEAKER_01]: And if I only wanted a lot of my friends and family are arsenal, you know, we troll each other all the time, but the joy of just seeing them win like we're matching.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we've had those days. [SPEAKER_01]: We know what it's like. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, we're struggling right now, but it's just fun, you know, my point to see the happiness that it brings and we could use all the happiness that we can in the world. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little, you know, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, enough about that. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about these people with their issues. [SPEAKER_01]: We are halfway through the season. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to need an owner to pick it up and start making some progress because I don't know about you. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not feeling like.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're making progress. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're not progressing in their relationships, but I'm definitely feeling like I know people a little bit better. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's what you were talking about last week was like, we need to know more about their backstory. [SPEAKER_00]: Is it we finally got a little bit more of that?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is, but, no, for real, I need some progress. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, these people feel like, no, no, no, no, no. [SPEAKER_01]: Again, in previous seasons, I've seen couples come in and you see the progress in them. [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like we're halfway through, and they still feel like they're just coming here to dump.

[SPEAKER_01]: and then they go and then it's back to square one all over again and I don't know maybe they'll fast forward towards the end but we'll see what we start with Chris and Sienna because they have a couple that we did not see last week and he's saying like oh I did something horrible to you and I do not deserve and she's like oh that's your MO and she's like he needs that flunking like it's almost like [SPEAKER_01]: There's a, oh, what is it called?

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a sect in the Catholic Church where they punished themselves by, you know, flugging themselves? [SPEAKER_00]: I only know it because of that Tom Hanks movie. [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Da Vinci code. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So, um, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So it feels like, yeah, you're punishing yourself.

[SPEAKER_01]: I committed a sin. [SPEAKER_01]: So therefore, I need to be punished, which always baffles me because, you know, in the true Christian tenant, it's supposed to be good as you love. [SPEAKER_01]: Humans are the ones who came up with this, you bad go away, you bad suffer. [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't, you know, all these things.

[SPEAKER_01]: But Chris feels like he needs to be punished for what he does. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what she's saying to him. [SPEAKER_01]: And [SPEAKER_01]: Look at me. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm scared because I love you so much. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, yeah, but I don't think I should be with you. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm just a schmuck that has money issues and my trust from ran out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Wang, Wang, Wang, Wang. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not minimizing guys. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like, you've been together 12 years. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, come on. [SPEAKER_00]: Did he just feel he felt to me that whole time was those guys that like or jerks because they don't want to break up with the girl so they're giving her a thousand reasons to break up with him and it's like so that he can walk away and be like oh no she I don't know what she just left me and it's because I'm so tender if somebody helped me and I just it just didn't know any about him more [SPEAKER_01]: I just, here's the thing, I was to get up for him.

[SPEAKER_01]: I completely understand that he feels like he's not worth a worthy of her, but [SPEAKER_01]: This should have been sorted out. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess it's where I'm going to. [SPEAKER_01]: And not like this, I'm lying. [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're like two years in, five years in, I'm like, okay, your new, you can know each other.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're like three kids deep, even though they only talk about two kids. [SPEAKER_01]: And 13 years behind you, I'm been through so much at this point. [SPEAKER_01]: If you don't think that you deserve her, what are you guys doing? [SPEAKER_01]: Is this a lifetime of reassuring? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, no, you're good enough for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm not, no, it's exhausting. [SPEAKER_01]: But also what's that? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but also what's the point of having this awareness if you're not going to do anything about it? [SPEAKER_00]: It's one thing to be like, hey, I recognize this stuff about myself. [SPEAKER_00]: I've had this terrible thing when my childhood and I Realizing my mom was was a little bit untangled and this is why I do what I do.

[SPEAKER_00]: but that you've got that realization. [SPEAKER_00]: So you've got to do something about it. [SPEAKER_00]: Like you can't rely on Sienna or whoever in your life to fix that for you. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not saying he's got to be completely curative it. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not saying it needs to go away.

[SPEAKER_00]: But just to say, well, this is the thing that's happened to me and I can't help but I'm so hurt. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so broken, my family lost its money. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we're all aware of that now. [SPEAKER_00]: What do you do about that to make you a good partner in your relationship?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a little unfair that because you feel insecure, you are hurting her, and then she's the same person that has to console you and make you feel better while you're actively hurting her. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, hurting her. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're so. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, he's all going on and on and she's like, look at me, stop it, stop it.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is happening. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what is this one like two man Broadway play that's going on and order is doing that thing She's giving us that look where it's like I'm looking through my bifocal stare except she does she does not wear glasses But she's looking at them like okay [SPEAKER_01]: then we see them at home doing laundry and she's hugging him and then we see owner talking to her peers and she's like there are moments when she turns to him in sessions and starts telling him how amazing he is.

[SPEAKER_01]: By the way in this moment I was wondering like how does she decide what she tells her fellow people and what she tells Virginia? [SPEAKER_00]: I think that they have to also see tape and that's a good point. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that [SPEAKER_00]: let me get your perspective on the session.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're like with Virginia, it's like, okay, let me get perspective on how I'm approaching this, is what it feels like to bridge to me. [SPEAKER_00]: I think she kind of, she kind of finds our holes in the areas that she's not deficient in, but the areas that she needs more help in with Virginia and then with the group.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they have to watch tape. [SPEAKER_00]: There's no way that she can relay all this information about these people. [SPEAKER_00]: accurately, so that they've got a really good feedback. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's the difference. [SPEAKER_00]: It's what it feels like to me. [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think it is?

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think that hard. [SPEAKER_01]: I just like, what is the difference? [SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you because what more I was thinking about is the fact that I have to talk about this. [SPEAKER_01]: I talk with these people, then I talk to Virginia, then I talk to my peer. [SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's a lot of things about it's like, so how do I tell them? [SPEAKER_01]: How do I make sure I'm giving them accurate stuff? [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I was thinking about. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, orness has that she believes that she is hypnotizing him in case he forgot. [SPEAKER_01]: She means Sierra.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh, and getting him to believe into a future that has the goodness of the world. [SPEAKER_01]: What in that, one of them asks and is like, well, what is she getting? [SPEAKER_01]: And another was like, I don't have a sense of her emotional center. [SPEAKER_01]: like we know she's suffering but we are not seeing her suffering and I'm like tag me in coach for this period when you guys remember me saying this where I'm like she seems fine like we know like her voice changes she gets mad from nowhere but I was just like she seems too fine for someone that's hurting and that was the point where I was like maybe one is right that she disassociates because that's how she goes and that's how she can move on

[SPEAKER_01]: with whatever pain that she's dealing with on her own, you know, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So you're good at this. [SPEAKER_01]: You're good at this. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I missed your calling as a therapist. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, oh, Lord, I do not hear it's not a secret or anything, but it is when I always tell you guys that I have, like I'm so fascinated by the human psyche, I actually looked into like going back to school, getting like a, uh, not, it was not therapy, like coach type situation and seeing like if I could, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: Something close to therapy, but I didn't want to go to med school.

[SPEAKER_01]: All the things I didn't want to be as I can't. [SPEAKER_01]: She's an all that, but in that vein, but it was too much work, student loans, all the things, and I was like, okay, it's my not just watching on TV. [SPEAKER_01]: That's super. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll be in front of you. [SPEAKER_00]: I'd like to spread that's cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's cool. [SPEAKER_01]: It's free, you know. [SPEAKER_01]: Another says where is her fault line where she is not the superwoman, but rather she falls apart. [SPEAKER_01]: Which sounds a little bad, but I know what they mean because it's like we're not wishing her to like break down and fall apart, but it's like Feel your feelings girl because you're allowed to be hurt.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is hurtful. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and we all, and this is couples therapy like who are you as the other half of this couple other than the damaged partner? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So Orna says there is a lot more to find out about her. [SPEAKER_01]: So this gave me an inkling like, okay, I think we're going to do CNS background today.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because in the last episode, we were talking about, you know, she's taking turns and we're getting everybody's background. [SPEAKER_01]: And the minute they talk about their background, you're like, ah, makes all this. [SPEAKER_01]: We get it. [SPEAKER_00]: Right, but if we feel that way, just listening to them for half an hour like how are their partners not getting that same sense it's so strange it is it is [SPEAKER_01]: So we were back to therapy now.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're back in Orna's office and Chris is telling us how, okay, so I put the grass to bed. [SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna have mommy daddy time and she's like, don't fall asleep and she's like, okay, don't fall asleep. [SPEAKER_01]: It's important and we're gonna do this, but then he does. [SPEAKER_01]: And she was upset and was like, he was like, no, I can rally in and she's like, nope, it's been done.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm upset, I removed his gun. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want it, it's fine, it's okay. [SPEAKER_01]: She says that it felt like evidence that she is not important to him by sheer fact, and I quote, that he couldn't even stay awake to fuck me. [SPEAKER_01]: But for the cuddles, he would move heaven and earth.

[SPEAKER_01]: and on our time to Chris and it's like, what do you think about this comparison? [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, well, I mean, she kind of knows all the reasons that I'm tired. [SPEAKER_01]: I have to put the girls to bed, pick them up from school, do this, clean up, and he's tired. [SPEAKER_01]: But regardless, he knew how important it was to her.

[SPEAKER_01]: But even to himself, he's like, why the fuck can I stay up? [SPEAKER_01]: And honor is like, let's forget whether or not this is bad because the urge to self-adulate when he comes to Chris is very high in his top of mind. [SPEAKER_01]: And honor says, you feel the expectations feel from her for the way.

[SPEAKER_01]: The expectation she has of you feel really big and he's like, yes, but it's good because I wanted to fuck, but Sienna's expectations [SPEAKER_01]: are important too. [SPEAKER_01]: And she honest like that means that she's powerful. [SPEAKER_01]: And then they're both like saying, yes, yes, but I don't know if they're saying yes for the same reasons.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what don't say yes, but also I'm struck by how is that powerful when everything that you've just demonstrated took her power away? [SPEAKER_00]: Like she asked you to do this thing. [SPEAKER_00]: And you actively didn't do it and you actively gone and cheated on her where you put a lot of energy and effort into it So I don't know how that makes her powerful and it seems like you're taking away her power by doing this But I don't know I don't know What is your take on the whole falling asleep thing?

[SPEAKER_00]: I have two takes that I was going to ask you about. [SPEAKER_00]: The first one was like, how do you feel about them using this language? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, couldn't stay awake to fuck me. [SPEAKER_00]: And then her response was like, fuck me, fuck me. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, why do you guys need to use such strong language?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not approved by any sense of the word, but there's something strange to me about them using these really strong words. [SPEAKER_00]: Like the trail and fucking, what was the word he used annihilate? [SPEAKER_00]: And like, I don't know what it is about the two of them and these big words that just catch my attention.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, the first thing that came to mind is that it's how they met if you remember I'm sure described how they met them in a bar and she's like, I want to sit on your face and it's like trying to recreate What they had and I've always had like this pet pee. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you ever watch this show sex life Yes [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I've always, it kind of annoys me a lot because it's like this thing where they try to create this dissatisfaction right because she's married, she has a kid and it's like, oh, she's trying to recreate what she had with her. [SPEAKER_01]: boyfriend that she had ex-boyfriend that she met like in college or something and a little after college and she was in a 20, she was single and all of that stuff, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And the things that you always say like, oh, I miss who I was, I miss it, fine. [SPEAKER_01]: It's all well and good to miss who you were, but we have to also be realistic. [SPEAKER_01]: You can never be who you were when you were 20. [SPEAKER_01]: So trying to recreate that is setting yourself up for failure.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think we should be more accepting of the changes that are coming into your life. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a good change. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, things are different. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you're married now. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you have a kid. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, kids can be exhausting, or as people say, they also bring joy into your life.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a new kind of happiness that you did not have when you were 20. [SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully you have more financial freedom. [SPEAKER_01]: You can do more of the things that you want. [SPEAKER_01]: adjust the settings of the temperature, rather than trying to buy a brand new thermostat, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, like, it's just... [SPEAKER_00]: It's just off the dome, nice! [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, so it's just that they think that's what she's trying to do because she's not feeling her feelings and she isn't secure insecure. [SPEAKER_01]: She mentioned that she was like, I look what she noticed of the cuddle buddies where they looked different from me.

[SPEAKER_01]: They were younger. [SPEAKER_01]: They had big boobs and all of that is not what she's not lacking by any means. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they were showing her in the house. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, okay, those are nice boobs, okay, but I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: So she is feeling, she is feeling insecure right and that is what she wants is like what is it that you couldn't give because also remember that episode where she said if you just ask what is it that you want to do more than likely I'm going to say yes you know so it's just I think she's using that and feeling like [SPEAKER_01]: It has to be that vulgar, like, yeah, I can be nasty.

[SPEAKER_01]: Miss Yenner, if you're nasty, I don't know, but, you know. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what I think. [SPEAKER_00]: Back to your original question, I'm like, what do I think about this leave? [SPEAKER_00]: And I agree with you, I think for people that are used to a level of, I'm gonna say trauma, but a level of chaos.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then when you get with somebody that's not chaotic and you're like, I don't know what to do with this calm. [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's really what sex life felt like to me. [SPEAKER_00]: Like she had on the surface. [SPEAKER_00]: Her husband was a great guy. [SPEAKER_00]: He was providing and he was, if she ever said, hey, I need to go work.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm losing my mind, he can't hear of these kids. [SPEAKER_00]: her husband didn't seem like the kind of guy that'd be like, no, you stay home and take care of the kid, but she never asked. [SPEAKER_00]: And so something about this calm in her life made her feel unsettled and it made her think about the time when she didn't have any money and she stayed up late and she was out with this guy and didn't, so I think that's kind of what we see a lot of times in these relationships where like what happened?

[SPEAKER_00]: We have everything that's great, but if you're [SPEAKER_00]: great feels uncomfortable stable feels uncomfortable confidence on people so you've got to throw something you've got to throw a little bomb in there So that things are interesting again [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's what that feels like.

[SPEAKER_00]: But in terms of what I feel about him falling asleep, I guess I get it. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess if she wasn't a stay at home mom for so long, I guess I would feel more sympathy for him, but she did it for a very long time. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure she could stay awake and still at him. [SPEAKER_00]: So I just, I don't have any sympathy there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I get that kids are exhausting. [SPEAKER_00]: But if your partner says, hey, and I guess we have this thought in our mind that man [SPEAKER_00]: want to have sex and can have it at any moment and sex accepts. [SPEAKER_00]: So when your man falls asleep on you, you're like, wait, what?

[SPEAKER_00]: So I can see how that would be devastating for her, especially since she took the initiative after being hurt to say, I'm ready for this and bring him to fall asleep. [SPEAKER_00]: Just would feel like a dagger to me. [SPEAKER_00]: I get why she's upset. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm going to take a break and then I'll share what my thoughts are.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, [SPEAKER_01]: with the way he said it and his body language that made me think that there was more to it. [SPEAKER_01]: Almost like he could have stayed awake. [SPEAKER_01]: If you wanted to, he could have had a chuck down an energy drink, done something, I don't know what, but I feel like, [SPEAKER_01]: He just didn't want to do it, whether nervousness, whether scared, whether anything, I just feel like there was more to his story and the being tired.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you make a good point, because she was doing it at some point, was that ever a situation? [SPEAKER_01]: I also don't know what their sex life is at this moment. [SPEAKER_01]: Is it something that is free corn? [SPEAKER_01]: Is it something that, [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, get it in whenever you can, especially because she's living in the city now and things because if it's frequent, then maybe he is tired.

[SPEAKER_01]: But for it to be like, oh, we're setting aside time, right? [SPEAKER_01]: You know, today to do something. [SPEAKER_00]: It makes me think like it's not as regular, but I think we got the sense when when they talked about her being out of town and and her coming home, what do you call it a vacation?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like when you're back in vacation, she's like, no, no, it's not vacation. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm home. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and so maybe when she is home, they're having that fun vacation sex like that. [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, we haven't seen each other in a week or a few days and it's exciting. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we've got to fit it in between these kids, but I would imagine, even if it's not frequent, it's probably still that level of excitement he would want.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would imagine. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I think because we don't know, yeah, what it is that it that adds gravitas or no graphitas to whatever is happening. [SPEAKER_01]: But if I had to pick, I think like, I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: There is some meaning to him not just staying awake for something that she getting morning for.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: And while I was even the sea, he's so tired. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, she's home. [SPEAKER_01]: They could divvy up the task, right? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so he says that the way that she framed it, she framed it was like, this is a big fucking deal.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, yeah, but is it a big deal to you? [SPEAKER_01]: And then honest as well, when someone is so powerful that no longer is the question, the question is, can I supply what this powerful woman wants for me? [SPEAKER_01]: and Chris is feeling very funny and is like, well, shit, I can supply it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, no, you can't. [SPEAKER_01]: You feel as deep so stop. [SPEAKER_01]: And see, and I was like, oh, stop. [SPEAKER_01]: Go somewhere else with that. [SPEAKER_01]: he says like the thing is she is like big like she's huge to me like she's just so important to me and Orna says on the heels of them talking about you know his mom it's dangerous for him to be in the hands of someone powerful you know this was difficult for me to watch because I'm still not fully bought into this whole scene or soul powerful thing but I'm just going along with it you know because like you know what Orna says that what am I going to do can't [SPEAKER_01]: But let's keep going.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just didn't think it will last as long, but you can't go in here. [SPEAKER_01]: Man, I'm running out. [SPEAKER_01]: So Chris says, oh, yeah, the thing is, I can't bear to see her upset. [SPEAKER_01]: And he lives his life mostly to avoid that feeling. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, you cheated on her.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm right. [SPEAKER_00]: I have very little sympathy for him. [SPEAKER_00]: And I always feel like he's in a production, like he's in a play, like he's in theater. [SPEAKER_00]: He's always everything is so dramatic with him. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll get to this when you start talking about CNA.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I loved when the camera like paned away from him and we just got to focus on her. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I wonder if this is what their relationship feels like is like it's always the, the Chris show. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, let's focus on her. [SPEAKER_00]: Is there a time where he ever shifts the focus to her and my guess is no, it doesn't feel like that at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even think he realizes it. [SPEAKER_01]: So I just think like he's contradicting himself. [SPEAKER_01]: Like if you're really, and again, if she's that powerful and he is a thing, or not saying that she's so powerful, kind of eases the sting of him cheating on her. [SPEAKER_01]: If she's so powerful, he wouldn't have cheated on her.

[SPEAKER_01]: If he really lives his life to be like, oh, I'm mostly to avoid that feeling. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want her upset with me. [SPEAKER_01]: You wouldn't cheat on her. [SPEAKER_01]: You'd be racked with guilt, right? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Ideally, yes, in a brain that goes from A to B, yes, but his brain goes from A to Q to Apple's to [SPEAKER_00]: dumbbells.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's the end of turn. [SPEAKER_01]: It was a Mariah Carey. [SPEAKER_01]: It's so. [SPEAKER_01]: Because she's like, well, Sienna, why don't you tell us about your story? [SPEAKER_01]: And she says, like, she grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood.

[SPEAKER_01]: They had no money. [SPEAKER_01]: Home home was a single mom. [SPEAKER_01]: And she was a biracial kid, which I think I guess that I've [SPEAKER_01]: And she was where we couldn't figure out which yeah, I think you thought she was Latina I did yeah, I don't know where and she looked Well, we get to because I have a point in there, but on her is like you're a biracial and I'm like are you surprised like I don't know what that me like why are you saying it again?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, of course [SPEAKER_01]: And then she goes, yes, my, um, I am African-American and Danish. [SPEAKER_01]: And when I was like, who's who? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like, you know what? [SPEAKER_01]: That's important, or not. [SPEAKER_01]: It is very, very important who the African-American and who the Danish is.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she goes, my mom is Danish, aka, she's a white parent. [SPEAKER_01]: And I found it interesting that, um, CNN did not say, I am African-American and Caucasian. [SPEAKER_01]: She said African-American and Danish. [SPEAKER_00]: I think, but I feel like people who have a parent from another country are very clear about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's, because I think there's some, you learn other things about somebody from a Danish parent than just kind of like a white parent. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think it's intentional. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but if we're talking about the race, you say she's white and she's from Denmark.

[SPEAKER_00]: But culturally, like, I would imagine that she's a very different white mom, because I think she said that they look group in a predominantly white area. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think even having a white mom, regardless of, well, also in addition to their financial situation, she was also a foreigner.

[SPEAKER_00]: So even though she's white, she's still going to be clocked in the foreigner, and I think that's important too. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I guess. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this thing of like, it's like me saying, oh, I'm Nigerian. [SPEAKER_01]: If I walk on the street and no one sees me, [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I found that really important, like she just didn't say, like I feel like she could have said, my mom is white and then afterwards say, but she was, and she didn't even go into details. [SPEAKER_01]: Like for everything that you said, if that played a factor, she didn't even say, oh my mom was Danish, oh she moved here, she came from here, if that was a big factor.

[SPEAKER_01]: to say she did not even say that. [SPEAKER_01]: So anyways, that just struck me the way that she described it. [SPEAKER_01]: So she says that she was bullied really badly because her mom would cut her hair super short because, oh, her hair was too difficult to handle. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely, it was the white parents.

[SPEAKER_01]: So she said she has super thick glasses and was overweight. [SPEAKER_01]: She has a core memory of being in ballet, and she was wearing a purple, a leotard, and black tights when everyone else was on pink on pink on pink, and everybody else was basically [SPEAKER_01]: Perfect Caucasian girls and the ballet teacher called her out and she just felt shamed She remembers feeling very deeply unhappy and she said she did ask her mom as an adult about how she was like you want to come from the bullying and she says her mom said I mean, I didn't know what to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wish I had done something but you know, I just didn't I'm like, where did my dad Whoopsie my dad [SPEAKER_01]: the way to go mom. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: A Christian showed a flash of Chris and Chris looked uncomfortable, but I don't know if anything mommy just makes him just, bring garden hives, but he looked a little uncomfortable to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: So when she said, that's what her mom said. [SPEAKER_01]: Orna says, um, what does that mean? [SPEAKER_01]: And she just said, like, listen, orna, I know what you mean, girl. [SPEAKER_01]: But [SPEAKER_01]: I'm out of time. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm replacing my life where I have had to let go of expectations of my mom and I just have to love her for who she is because, you know, I want to relationship with her.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like the hell. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, girl, did you learn that stuffing stuff down for you does not work? [SPEAKER_00]: It does not help because you know what, the things that you stuff down always come back out and it's the same thing she does with Chris. [SPEAKER_00]: And so like that, hopefully this was a light bulb moment and she made that connection to like, I can't stuff stuff down just to have a relationship because it hurts me in the end and it never stays locked away.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, honored, helps her, leads her to the light switch and is like, well, have you thought about how many needs and expectations that you've suppressed? [SPEAKER_01]: And she says, you know, the way she thinks about it was like, if she can get through her childhood, nothing can put her back in that place because she controls how she presents in the world.

[SPEAKER_01]: So she decided, I'm going to choose joy. [SPEAKER_01]: And she never considered the ramifications of, you know, suppressing herself. [SPEAKER_01]: And we hear owner and a voiceover saying like, we all have a fantasy of the perfect mother, shared cultural ideas that moms know their children and they give and give and give no matter what, but then there's great disappointment when that mother doesn't show up in that way.

[SPEAKER_01]: But we have to recognize that the people that raise you are working with their own histories and I think that's really true I always say one of the things that helped me was recognizing early that my mom was a flawed human being because a lot of people are just like Oh, they romanticize and think like oh your parents they put them on a pedestal and they're like no one's gonna love me like them They're your best.

[SPEAKER_01]: They know me best and [SPEAKER_01]: Because they love you, they can't steer you wrong, but oh, yes, they can. [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, yeah, so the first people are going, fuck you up. [SPEAKER_00]: I made it. [SPEAKER_00]: And we're not. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, and you learn this from this show and you learn this from people that you interact with and I was watching something the other day where it talked about if you really want to know your partner spend time with their family and that really gives you an insight like, oh, that's why you do what you do or that's why you have these reactions or that's why you do this.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think one thing I tell a lot is that my husband is incapable of sitting down like he's somebody that just cannot sit still and I just never understood that until the first time in his parents and we were there or maybe for a week or so and when I tell you these people are doing something always like if if it got quiet in the room has mom got up to clean something or his dad [SPEAKER_00]: went to mow the lawn or somebody went for a walk or somebody put together a puzzle or somebody wanted to read a book or like it was like wow, wow, babe, I got to understand.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't fix it because I'm not that person but I understand if you just are itchy and you need to do something that I have to let you just do something. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's so interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: You see people with a [SPEAKER_01]: On today's edition of questions, I wish Horner asked.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wish that she asked about her dad. [SPEAKER_01]: I wish that she asked about being biracial. [SPEAKER_01]: How did that play into everything? [SPEAKER_01]: And if her mom was a single mom, like, you know, was her dad still involved? [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I always get into these questions of how do you define being a single parent?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, do you define being a single parent? [SPEAKER_01]: When you are the primary parent or are you single you all the primary parent But the other parent still shows up in some way just not as much as you are your single parent when it's everything is on you And it's just you and the other person is not in their life at all because everybody has different definitions, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm, but I also thought it was interesting that we talked about, you know, when it order had that whole speech about, yes, we have these ideas about our moms and whatever, but that's kind of light, like, and even in everybody telling their stories to your point, like, we don't hear about anybody's dad, like, even when Marjorie talks about her her past or Chris, somewhat talks about his past, but like, we don't ever hear about the dads, and so it's [SPEAKER_00]: I guess from that maternal perspective, but the dads are supposed to on paper, or be there too, and so it's interesting that dads get off light.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, light in there. [SPEAKER_01]: I think because the bars on the floor from men, because being back to summer house, when everybody goes in a man down, West is kind of like West, okay, we expect this because West, man, but like you expect more from a woman, which is bad, you know, because then the fall from [SPEAKER_01]: greatness is harder because you're expecting and putting more on women and it's just the answer is societal, this society, you know, that's where we are.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, I'll take a break and I'll be back with Shane Clinton. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we're back with Shane Clinton. [SPEAKER_01]: I have decided that they are the couple. [SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy the least, they stress me out. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just always stressed and I'm just like, where is this going?

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I'm breathing and I'm like, okay, we're done. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so yeah, it just doesn't feel like there's like what's the point, you know, I mean, even if we, even if we unpack all these issues and we figure out like what's the root of this and what's the cause of this, okay, great we got there, but I, what is what does that look like for you as a couple and I don't think we've ever seen that like even in the clips, I think maybe this is the first time later that we saw them together outside of each other.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, otherwise they seem to be very parallel, people versus a, an interconnected pair. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's, it's weird. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what we're supposed to get. [SPEAKER_01]: They seem comfortable in their toxicity and they don't seem to want to get out of it. [SPEAKER_01]: Like they're just accepting it as this is how it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, no, but we're hearing Shay say that she's always busy taking care of everything for everyone. [SPEAKER_01]: with her family, work, all the things, and no wonder this is how her relationship turned out. [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, I do this every day, my everyday life and in my career and I'm like, what do you do?

[SPEAKER_01]: Still want to know. [SPEAKER_01]: She's my final model. [SPEAKER_01]: Why do you take care of everything for everyone in your career? [SPEAKER_01]: What is it? [SPEAKER_01]: And modeling doesn't take care of everyone, so what is it? [SPEAKER_01]: I want to know. [SPEAKER_01]: So Clinton says, that's why sometimes I'm like, let me do some of that too.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he says he understands that because of how she grew up, she has to take the reins all the time. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh, no, I was like, oh, okay, how did you grow up? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, it's time. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go, Shay, it's your opening tour, open that tour. [SPEAKER_01]: She says she grew up poor, both parents were alcoholic.

[SPEAKER_01]: They grew up in Pennsylvania and she was homeless for a part of that because her parents were not okay with her being gay when she first came out as a gay man and she was 14. [SPEAKER_01]: her mom called her the effort and not going to repeat it. [SPEAKER_01]: They actually said it on the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: And said, and I quote, wishes that she got AIDS and dies. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, saying, Clinton offered that story. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think this is where it's great where you have that pertinent. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, you're not going to tell it right out. [SPEAKER_01]: Be there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, get your drain on and tell us what the full thing is because the [SPEAKER_01]: to come out is just, you know, you hear things like that, and I still don't understand why you want a relationship with that person. [SPEAKER_01]: I just, they don't. [SPEAKER_00]: I think, and I would imagine that at some point you, you hope your parents come around, because as much as people think parents should have unconditional love for their kids, [SPEAKER_00]: The idea that the person that brought you into this world doesn't love you is painful and that like if this person that brought me into this world doesn't love an accept me how will anybody else love an accept me so I think that there's a desire to have a resolution there and so I get why yes it'd be easy just to be like all right if you you don't accept me but

[SPEAKER_00]: Then how do you marry that in your head about if the people that brought me into I'm half you and you don't love me how is anybody else in the world supposed to so I could see where people would want to resolve that in some way shape or form. [SPEAKER_01]: understood. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, everybody deals with things differently.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you're up. [SPEAKER_00]: I, I agree with this degree. [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to see how to phrases because I mean, from personal experience. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I understand that. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, the thought of how would anyone love you if they don't, but I think we have to look at the other side, which it was in my case is when you accept someone.

[SPEAKER_01]: being that horrible to you just because they're parent, it allows you to entertain behavior that is also harmful to you. [SPEAKER_01]: So [SPEAKER_01]: It's a lose lose either way so you you hear trying to reconcile how else anyone yes they can but they can if you get yourself out of that toxicity and not staying there waiting for approval because in the bid to get that approval you're hurting yourself and allowing other people to and you're repeating patterns yeah and you're just you know can you and I'm not saying it's right and I'm not saying it's it's a good [SPEAKER_00]: way to manage these relationships, but I could see why if somebody's stuck in that or they want that, why they would want that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I also think it also informs why she has somebody that wants to take care of everybody because she wasn't taking care of. [SPEAKER_01]: It does, but much like everything in life. [SPEAKER_01]: We all have, listen, every single person on earth, I don't care how much money or anything you have.

[SPEAKER_01]: We all have our crosses to bear. [SPEAKER_01]: And at some point, as we get older, we have to now take responsibility and addressing all these things and trying to deal with them. [SPEAKER_01]: They can't be our... [SPEAKER_01]: not personality for the rest of it. [SPEAKER_01]: So when that happens, you take care of them, you happen, but then as you get older, okay, now are we gonna work with, are we gonna fix this?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm not gonna take care of everybody to the ground, pay off their credit cards, get mad, because oh, I wasn't taking care of, so then, okay, I should hurt myself. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, don't burn yourself to keep others warm, okay? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, just fix it. [SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, I feel like I'm sounding harsh.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's not the point, my point is just that. [SPEAKER_01]: Just as she's getting older and she seems to not like it, like, oh, no one's taking care of me, but you're also creating that scenario where everyone looks at you or it's a caretaker, which is what I know we get on Clinton, but that's what he's saying.

[SPEAKER_01]: You feel you need to take the reins all the time, but what are you projecting? [SPEAKER_01]: What part are you playing? [SPEAKER_01]: In people wanting to take care, maybe it's easier to just like, okay, just handle it, than deal with the other side that comes out when other people try to take care of it too.

[SPEAKER_01]: So she has to take responsibility that it's not something that's happening to you. [SPEAKER_01]: You are kind of contributing it to it happening to you, you know, right, a great. [SPEAKER_01]: So okay, so this is the first time that after she said what her mom said to her, this is the first time that Shay is not even killed.

[SPEAKER_01]: like she's crying, her voice is having different octaves. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the same like it always was. [SPEAKER_01]: And she tells us that she used to do drag and until she met a trans woman for the first time at 16, then in college, she started wearing partially men's clothes, partially women's clothes, and then her senior, she just went full time, women's clothes, and she just showed up to her house full time women's clothes.

[SPEAKER_01]: So everyone was against her transitioning. [SPEAKER_01]: Her voice is getting high rate. [SPEAKER_01]: She's just like, you can see everything flooding back to her. [SPEAKER_01]: We can see it in real time. [SPEAKER_01]: And she says her mom is like the dumb of the house. [SPEAKER_01]: Like the way you work was that you will respect her and her word is final.

[SPEAKER_01]: That, what I asked like, so how was that relationship that you submit to her? [SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, oh, yes, I submitted to my mom, most of my life. [SPEAKER_01]: And I just never fought her for anything. [SPEAKER_01]: So, when she remembers a memory, when she said no to not wanting a bath, and her mom went into her room, took everything out of the room, including the furniture, locked her in there, and just left her there, and I'm like, this increases mom.

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't forget you said they were alcoholics too. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is when people are like, why don't you have kids? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, uh, because, you know, the men and those brothers have kids. [SPEAKER_00]: Like you would never know and I'm sure when these people had these kids, this was not their plan.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is not, they said, I'm going to be the kind of parent that says the most horrendous things to my kids and does all of this. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't. [SPEAKER_00]: Like not everybody should be a parent and this is why and this is also why I'm overly nice to kid. [SPEAKER_00]: But like if I see a kid around, especially a kid that's you know they're with their parents and their parents are working and the kid is being dragged along like if I could be nice to a kid for five minutes because I don't know what it looks like in your home, I'm going to do that because childhood is not the same for everybody and this stuff is wild so wild.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I don't think I'm giving in the benefit of the doubt that Clinton was trying to hijack the story, but he kind of did because he's there in the combo to himself and says, you know, he understands where she's coming from with that because he feels like their mothers are similar.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, she says, he's saying that she has, like, tells him from time to time, like, she doesn't want to be like her mother. [SPEAKER_01]: but she does feel like both their parents are manipulative. [SPEAKER_01]: He said, like, my mother hid my diagnosis for me. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't know about you, but it's pretty damn manipulative.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know what's going on with this. [SPEAKER_01]: He said, and he says, [SPEAKER_01]: but sometimes he feels like she is encroaching on there and she shows up in their relationship. [SPEAKER_01]: And Orna is like, okay, how? [SPEAKER_01]: And he says, well, when she says, if you just listen to me, nothing will go wrong.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, hmm, I disagree. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny because, [SPEAKER_01]: Shay says that she's not able to express herself, but I don't think she realizes that that's also kind of the case we're Clinton in this case, because he's like, you can see walking an egg shell to kind of say, I'm not saying like you're exactly like your mom, but you know, you could be cousins, but you're right there.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like no, that's why I said and crouching like I'm not there But you know he wanted to be like, no, I'm in there and like you just come up like no You have to do it my way or the highway, but he's like being really careful I'm all he says and she has just like nope. [SPEAKER_01]: I disagree which by the way Do you remember that they had homework last week we hear nothing about that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, again, I'm going to put that on editing in terms of what we have time for because we needed to devote the time to to she's history. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I think going into this, I was actually not proud of Clinton, but I was very attentive to what he was doing. [SPEAKER_00]: And he was very calm, like normally he's he's fidgeting and he's going back and forth and whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if it's because it wasn't. [SPEAKER_00]: he wasn't about this. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and so yeah, but I think that that's something that I haven't seen before as him be that calm presence for her. [SPEAKER_00]: And so she, not that he allowed her, but she had that space to kind of talk about her self.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so when he started talking about himself, I tensed up. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, no, we're so close. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I said that that this, that this [SPEAKER_00]: went off in the different direction because she was doing so well, but then she got so defensive about no, you're not describing me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so instead of recognizing that he was trying to relate, he wasn't doing a good job about it. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think he was trying to say, hey, I think I understand [SPEAKER_00]: what you're feeling because I'm feeling this and this is why I react to you the way I do because in my experience this is how I would want to be treated but it didn't come across that way and I'm so sad because I think it could have been a moment where they they could have connected and he was trying to help.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm still going to put that on the show because like you said, she got really defensive. [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, when I see thing is not control. [SPEAKER_01]: We are discussing things, but in my house, there was no discussion in my house. [SPEAKER_01]: And it also explains why when.

[SPEAKER_01]: She speaks, she's very careful and very even killed because I think maybe she's trying not to consciously trying not to be her mom and not sound so militant, but all that was thrown out the window this episode, but she's very very insistent that I know where near my mom and she just gave that look and I almost wanted to be like, well, exhibit A, you're saying you're not, but [SPEAKER_01]: everything you body language and everything you doing right now because I think it's her biggest fear being set out loud like how dare you like I don't want to be like that But sometimes you know nature versus nurture I just you can't even help it But I don't know that that happened and then that was it for them and I'm like, oh even the producers are tired of them like They have a short and segment and you just ended that way and I'm like, okay, well, I guess we're done moving on.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that was it [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Jay and Nessa, these people. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what you kicked them out. [SPEAKER_00]: Was, I was confused. [SPEAKER_00]: Like from the moment they walked into the waiting room, I was like, what's happening? [SPEAKER_00]: Why are they so happy?

[SPEAKER_00]: Why is everything feel so light? [SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't even think I've seen Nessa smile. [SPEAKER_00]: And Nessa smile. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, what's happening here? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let me tell you guys, we'll have to be. [SPEAKER_01]: Tell them, tell them. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't know, we didn't fully expect NASA well-drayer to stand on business, did we?

[SPEAKER_01]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: But I was worried for a second that we wouldn't get them because they've been doing three couples for a while. [SPEAKER_01]: So, y'all know, I enjoy watching them. [SPEAKER_01]: So, I was happy when they came in. [SPEAKER_01]: And they're in the waiting room and dress all smiley.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, I know you love me. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I was like, I do love you. [SPEAKER_01]: And Jay has like, I also know I'm crazy. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, [SPEAKER_01]: They come into the office and these cycles are like, we know we left in a bad state last time and that says like, yeah, but I went to a Caribbean festival and just came back last night and we both missed each other and Jay has says [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, even before that, like, you know, as she's looking at her, we love EW to WIs, and again, remember, I'm watching it in real time, and I had no idea what was coming, and I wrote down in my notes, oh my god, Drea, it looks like she's been freshly fucked.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh no, these are the eyes who's had a good time. [SPEAKER_01]: So, what I was just looking like, I knew you fucking like, like, okay, we should bring, tell me what's happening. [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, what's happening here? [SPEAKER_01]: It's what's happening here?

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a shift and I need to know what's happening. [SPEAKER_01]: and she has that bifocult stare too. [SPEAKER_01]: And Nessa says, well, we're pretty emotional after that last session. [SPEAKER_01]: And after the session, we just went to dinner, and then we went home, and then we had an enjoyable time together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Orness says, the two of you, that was hilarious. [SPEAKER_00]: I spit water out of my mouth, which she was like, wait, both of you, too? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh [SPEAKER_01]: And Dre is says, I think both of us just felt really bad and knew that we could make each other feel better And I'm like this is not good.

[SPEAKER_01]: The reason I say this is not good. [SPEAKER_01]: Dre. [SPEAKER_01]: I understand. [SPEAKER_01]: Dre is in love with Nessa [SPEAKER_01]: Nessa, according to all she's been bitching at us for the last four episodes, is that she's not down, she wants to be free, so Nessa will sell. [SPEAKER_01]: It's almost feels like you're taking advantage of the feelings that she has for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: You flat out said, she's my best friend. [SPEAKER_01]: There's no romantic relationships. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to have sex with her. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's take sex off the table. [SPEAKER_01]: Come on. [SPEAKER_00]: But also, you've said some very horrendous things about this woman.

[SPEAKER_00]: So why did out of all of the times that you've said horrendous things about her? [SPEAKER_00]: And as ostensibly last week was the end. [SPEAKER_00]: Like she was like, Drea was done and she was out the door. [SPEAKER_00]: And Nessa went home and was like, hmm, let me really you back in real quick.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have expectations of Dre because again, she's in love. [SPEAKER_01]: Dre is the one who's not the lower hand, but she doesn't have the upper hand, like she's doing what that wants to stay. [SPEAKER_01]: So I understand that. [SPEAKER_01]: But Nessa.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a wide-end ornament I ask her. [SPEAKER_01]: So what are you thinking? [SPEAKER_01]: Your feelings just magically change. [SPEAKER_01]: But J.S. [SPEAKER_01]: says, oh, I don't want to say this. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm about my tongue off. [SPEAKER_01]: But I've noticed that when Nessa gets to go do things, she wants to do by herself.

[SPEAKER_01]: She returns in better spirits, is affectionate. [SPEAKER_01]: Basically, she comes back horny. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why she just didn't say that. [SPEAKER_01]: She said, what? [SPEAKER_01]: They heard like that was my interpretation and Jen, I got to tell you I was dumbfounded. [SPEAKER_01]: I I'm like, Jayre, you are the one that's gonna suffer.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the next time she feels that You think you're doing something regular or cup Lee like, oh, I just want to spend time with you and that's if you'll suffocate it The yo yo or if at all you're the one that's gonna suffer for it. [SPEAKER_01]: That's us fine [SPEAKER_00]: And I just, and were you thinking like, because again, and we were back to the, I was back to the original question of, if your partner says they wanna go on a trip alone, do you allow them?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, I guess she finally said, well, let me try this. [SPEAKER_00]: If your partner asks for this and you give them this, and it turns out good, because ostensibly, Nessa came back happier and lighter, and was able to see and see Nessa, [SPEAKER_00]: in another way, because like even in the waiting room, when Dre has said, oh, I know I'm crazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a very comfortable said, no, we don't say crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't know, I just don't trust this. [SPEAKER_00]: I've gone without you because I feel like how are you out and independent, what happens there? [SPEAKER_00]: Like what is happening when you're away from your partner that makes then coming back to your partner easier.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the piece that I wish [SPEAKER_00]: dove into because it doesn't. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, any, any doesn't feel sustainable. [SPEAKER_01]: So recently we covered a love is blind. [SPEAKER_01]: Poland and there was a couple who just kept fighting and fighting and then they were like, okay, but we were fine in the pods.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's recreate being in the pods and they took a door went to the bathroom and I was like, is this supposed to be cute because this is stupid? [SPEAKER_01]: Because every time you're in a rough place, are you going to pretend that you're in the pods? [SPEAKER_01]: It's not realistic. [SPEAKER_01]: So in this case, it's like every time you feel like you're in a rut, she has to go do something by herself.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's what we have to do now, like we can't just have that like it feels good because it's oh, this is the first time this is new then what becomes the rules of engagement like what is drag going to be okay with not okay with and why do I don't know it just complicated that slippery slope slippery slope yes and it's too soon to say like okay this is what works for us because it's a novelty right now so.

[SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, Dre has says like it was nice being by herself and doing things herself and the independence feel good And it's just something she's never done before and when Nestor was not around usually she would just stay home and she wouldn't even go to work Oh, take the gift to daycare and on as like what why?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I Just leave dread to do all the things and on as says again, why? [SPEAKER_01]: And she says, well, I mean, I think she was hearing herself say he got a lot and was like, he's kind of sounds silly. [SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, in my head, she's taking care of me. [SPEAKER_01]: And I thought for a second, like, oh, am I understanding where Nessa is coming from?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because guys, I did not know that it was to the extent of if she's not around. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to leave the house. [SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: That is a lot, but why wouldn't Nessa bring that up before? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's a big deal, because I mean, I've been anti-ness of this whole time.

[SPEAKER_00]: They can, like, here's this woman doing all of these things, but I didn't realize that her life was on pause when Nessa wasn't around. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's a huge, huge, huge thing to leave out of this. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, I, [SPEAKER_00]: Not that it changes all my feelings for Nessa, but I think that's something that could have been brought up way earlier that she completely shuts down and doesn't live her life like she's on pause.

[SPEAKER_00]: When that's like, that's wild. [SPEAKER_01]: It's literally ball and chain like you can't do anything and I'm like that's pretty heavy when the owner of somebody else is completely dependent on you that like honestly I feel like the right word is suffocating like there is nowhere else to put it so honor is like well who else in your families like that and she's like no one [SPEAKER_01]: And then Nessa gives a look.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, Nessa did not do a lot of talking. [SPEAKER_01]: I applaud her for that. [SPEAKER_01]: Usually she's the one who's an aerator in their sessions. [SPEAKER_01]: And she just gives a look. [SPEAKER_01]: And she turns, dray a toncer her and is like, what do you want me to say that I want to be taking care of?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I didn't feel taking care of my mother by my mother. [SPEAKER_01]: And that I felt unseen. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, well, there you go. [SPEAKER_01]: You told me, it's all in honor of you. [SPEAKER_01]: Or there's like, is that true? [SPEAKER_01]: And she goes, I guess. [SPEAKER_01]: And then she says, this is a thing that a lot of people we see on this show fall into.

[SPEAKER_01]: They don't want to say things that disparages their parents or loved ones character. [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, I don't know how deep I want to get into talking about my mother, that, you know, I love my mom, but I wish that she loved me as her child. [SPEAKER_01]: And I want to see, I don't know if she does.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, oh, that's so painful. [SPEAKER_00]: So terrible. [SPEAKER_01]: She said she just discarded us and she was like, well, some of us like some of her children. [SPEAKER_01]: She talks to some and I'm like, what would get you to the point where you only talk to some of the your children, but maybe they have different fathers and yeah, that's what I'm father will did a lot of trauma on there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, she says her daughter is for and she has maybe seen her just six times in her entire life and her mom lives 15 minutes away from her she will not call she will not ask them when she's called and she can't think of her saying she loves her or even a hug and owner is just like, oh, [SPEAKER_01]: Um, she says that her mom ironed her clothes clean the room.

[SPEAKER_01]: She was like, yeah, she's not doing all of that, but oh, she's going to iron her clothes clean the room that she was the typical Italian mom and I'm like, oh, she got a white mom and two. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: It's important. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I just feel like now it's too for two.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just such a layered conversation, but then it feels like we have. [SPEAKER_01]: white mothers who are stuck with this children, who are biracial, but maybe in their eyes, they've just seen them as black or non-white, and they don't know what to do with them, and they're gonna be bothered to find out what to do with them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: And also, that's a cool other thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's and that's and that's the the idea of I'm giving you your basic necessities I'm giving you you know if we're talking about Maslow's hierarchy of needs like I'm giving you your basic stuff you have food You have shelter you have someplace to live I'm gonna show up to your doctor's appointment and that's it like I've done the basic of my my duties of care and that's it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not giving you that next level of safety and [SPEAKER_00]: You know self actualization and all that we're not doing that. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm giving you your basic needs and that's that's my job. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm out. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I put Mexican cheese, that's crazy.

[SPEAKER_01]: He cut up hot dogs for you for dinner. [SPEAKER_01]: Now you want me to hug you or you crazy. [SPEAKER_01]: Right, go back, go back, please. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh God. [SPEAKER_00]: So the process is, we don't know how many, do we know how many siblings she has? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because we don't even know how many kids we're talking about that this woman was saying, yeah, but the same with Sienna, like was she the only kid that there's so many, yeah, so many questions.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think Sienna was only a child, but she knows how to do it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so Dre says that what she feels, oh, I think owner asked her, like, oh, what do you think? [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, oh, she waited for her turn. [SPEAKER_01]: So Dre says that part of what she feels that Nessa doesn't do things is like a fear.

[SPEAKER_01]: She hears us a lot of not being able to. [SPEAKER_01]: That she hears her often say, I don't know if I can. [SPEAKER_01]: And she always comes up with like negative things. [SPEAKER_01]: Like she's a catastrophizer. [SPEAKER_01]: This is Dreya, that she didn't get a driver's license because, oh, she did, but she never drove or her mom, no, her mom got one.

[SPEAKER_01]: So let me start this over. [SPEAKER_01]: Dreya never got a driver's license. [SPEAKER_01]: She never got one because her mom got one eventually but never drove because all she spoke about was her getting into a car accident. [SPEAKER_01]: So because of that fear, she never got a her license till she was 34.

[SPEAKER_01]: But also, she's the one I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I was thinking, like a lot of people in New York City, I don't know how to drive. [SPEAKER_00]: You don't, you, you, you, there's a public transportation that you, you can live there forever and never drive. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Nessa acknowledges that, you know, I just want to acknowledge that Dreier talking is growth and that's attractive to her and then she beams and then we get a montage of like their relationship I thought it was their relationship, but then it's for all the couples we just have seen pictures of all of them and you know how their, you know relationships over the years.

[SPEAKER_01]: we're going. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, and some of them were unrecognizable. [SPEAKER_00]: They were so happy. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, is that a smile on your face? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know your face could do that. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just, this is really making me scared because the pessimistic me, I always just see the worst case scenario is like, is this nest as a Tim did having another child?

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I guess she's playing nice so that Dre will have a little bit of a baby. [SPEAKER_01]: This switch-up is so like real, like honestly it was, they haven't seen each other all week guys. [SPEAKER_01]: She went to a festival, she came back the day before. [SPEAKER_01]: So the last time they saw each other was the night they had that horrible thing of separation and we were saying all the things and NASA was just like, so what's next?

[SPEAKER_01]: What were we doing? [SPEAKER_01]: And now we come back and she's attractive and I want her and it's fine. [SPEAKER_01]: I just [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, I mean, good for them, if it is, but I would order. [SPEAKER_01]: Ornor says interesting and it's like, oh, wait, great, but okay, how did we get here?

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm curious to see what she tells Virginia, whoever else next week about it, or if she has any suspicions, or if she believes that this is real, I'm just worried for Dreia. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but then the part that we didn't talk about was that Dreia actually took some initiative to do things.

[SPEAKER_00]: She instead of, you know, when Nessa was gone, instead of just holding up and shutting towering down, [SPEAKER_00]: She actually went shopping and she hung out with friends and she did something. [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe that's why Nessa is also finding this situation a little bit more tentable because A, she got what she wanted where she got some of this independence.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then while she was gone, Drea didn't completely shut down. [SPEAKER_00]: Like Drea started taking the steps to be the person that [SPEAKER_00]: Nessa and I'm sorry, I'm pausing. [SPEAKER_00]: It's hard keeping their name straight. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but that Nessa wanted her to be and wanted her to be the driver in her own life and so Drea started taking stuff and so maybe Nessa found that attractive and some of that was that she had up came down.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Jen, but it goes back to what we were saying is one time. [SPEAKER_01]: So that one time made all your feelings change. [SPEAKER_01]: You haven't seen each other. [SPEAKER_01]: You went from really like feelings you've had for like a year and some. [SPEAKER_01]: And then just because she went out on a hunger where her friends one time, you don't even know if it's gonna happen again.

[SPEAKER_01]: How many trips does she have to take to be in a good mood? [SPEAKER_01]: Dre has says, oh, when she goes into this her and thinks she comes back happy. [SPEAKER_01]: So now I have to chase her all the time outside the house to make her happy to come back to see me. [SPEAKER_01]: I just, [SPEAKER_01]: It tastes sustainable.

[SPEAKER_00]: It takes you know, I'm nowhere near being a NSO Apologies. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a fan. [SPEAKER_00]: But maybe this is how change happens is something needs to shift. [SPEAKER_00]: And so if me being the exact same way, is it changing? [SPEAKER_00]: Is it shifting? [SPEAKER_00]: Is it moving us in a forward direction?

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe if I change this thing, I let her do this thing that she wants to do, I start doing things on my own to establish my independence. [SPEAKER_00]: And whether that means they stay together or not, it's good that Dreia has changed this for herself. [SPEAKER_00]: It's good that she's changed her behavior for herself.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I agree. [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm more scared at the way [SPEAKER_01]: Ness' feelings can switch up, I guess. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it could be anything at any time, so. [SPEAKER_00]: Agreed, and my long question, my long-term question for all of this is what is she doing when she's away?

[SPEAKER_00]: If she just, I just want space and I just want to experience other people, are you cheating? [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the part that are you just, maybe she's just cuddling, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's the part that is a mystery to us. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm uncomfortable with messages going off on her own.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, what are you doing at these things? [SPEAKER_00]: If it's just, hey, I need a breather and I just need to power down or whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: I would want some clarity and maybe [SPEAKER_00]: dry and need some clarity on what's happening. [SPEAKER_00]: So I can feel comfortable with you being gone.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're just experiencing the world in a way that I don't want to experience the world, that's fine. [SPEAKER_00]: But as long as there's some parameters around that, you're not cheating. [SPEAKER_00]: You're not developing, you're not having emotional affairs. [SPEAKER_00]: You're not doing the things that are a threat to our relationship, then I can, I can be open to that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so maybe that's what needed to happen. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: Good luck to them. [SPEAKER_01]: My upper deers. [SPEAKER_01]: We will watch and see, but fully expect this to be something completely different because again, I'm not going to have to travel all the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just to make you happy. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just is the fact that Drea was smiling when she said that to like I find that when she does her own thing She comes back happier. [SPEAKER_01]: So Yeah, that's for me, but Final couple of Marjorie and Jason they get into the waiting room and things are frosty and as they sit She goes there goes your book over there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Deviant behavior. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like there goes Marjorie She tells Orna [SPEAKER_01]: that. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I didn't like the way this was produced because they were mentioning all these names saying all these things like, yes, you know who these people are. [SPEAKER_01]: Eventually, clicks, but it was just like, come on.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't like doing homework on my TV shows. [SPEAKER_01]: So she tells owner, like, he told her seven-year-old Ryan, like, your grandmother, you don't call her grandma. [SPEAKER_01]: You got to call her Lewis. [SPEAKER_01]: And she's not a grandma. [SPEAKER_01]: You have to call her by her name.

[SPEAKER_01]: Jason is like, yeah, I went fishing with Ryan. [SPEAKER_01]: We had a very nice trip, we're sitting and having a conversation. [SPEAKER_01]: He was upset that his grandma won't pick him up, but we'll pick up his cousins. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know if that was a mistake or if they met her older children because I'm like, what cousins?

[SPEAKER_01]: Who's living that like, we don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: Marjorie is like, why does he need to know that? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, and I'm, again, so confused. [SPEAKER_01]: Honor is like, okay, you guys are talking at the same time. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, because while she's still talking Jason is like, I'm not going to play that game of pretending that grandma loves you and cares about you when she does not and honor is like play what game.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's rewind. [SPEAKER_01]: What is happening. [SPEAKER_01]: He says that, um, grandma, Louis, I get a Marjorie's mom pulls up to pick a Bailey apparently. [SPEAKER_01]: We're supposed to know who Bailey is. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's our child. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if he's one of the cousins that live with them.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: They told us they have cats and dogs, not cousins. [SPEAKER_01]: So he runs outside that's Ryan. [SPEAKER_01]: And [SPEAKER_01]: So excited to see his grandma is asking for a hug and she wouldn't even know buckle her seat belt and he's like reaching over trying to hug and she wouldn't even come out to hug and he's like, I'm watching this on my heart is breaking for him.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like she does love him. [SPEAKER_01]: Listen, we went to the park the other day and they held hands. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, it was so beautiful. [SPEAKER_01]: I still got picture because what it was so beautiful. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, he doesn't see those moments. [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason she acts the way she does, I mean, she does that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's not nice, but she acts that way because she doesn't like Jason. [SPEAKER_01]: let's pause Jen. [SPEAKER_01]: So many pause. [SPEAKER_01]: We are not. [SPEAKER_01]: I repeat, going to praise this woman for holding the hands of her grandson. [SPEAKER_01]: It was so beautiful because it's so few and far between that you want to have pictures to be like, oh man, look, look what they did.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like when someone breadcrumbs a romantic interest. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, hey, [SPEAKER_01]: I've got you lunch today, I must love you, woo, and then you go back to being mean. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was just so annoyed because I mean, I'm judging Marjorie because I already think her parenting style is crazy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like this whole 80 miles each way is insane. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the watching the kids dating helped to pack and she's just sitting there and she didn't tell them to pack. [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's insane to me. [SPEAKER_01]: So this like, [SPEAKER_01]: He's defending your child and you're defending your mom and it just pisses me off.

[SPEAKER_01]: In all of the things that happen within adults, the concerns should always be the children. [SPEAKER_01]: My mind thinks that, but at the beginning to learn, as I get to learn, it's not. [SPEAKER_01]: I just, okay, then. [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, keep going. [SPEAKER_00]: You're on a roll. [SPEAKER_00]: Go.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I was just like, especially because I just thought that once you have a kid, according to what people say, they're your number one priority, you killed for them, you would die for them, and that's it. [SPEAKER_01]: So when I see this situation, they're like, making excuses, and I'm just like, why, fuck the other people, your kid is number one.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that goes back to, and wasn't that the whole thing last week when Marjorie was talking about her mom and like her mom wasn't per, like her mom was expecting her to be perfect. [SPEAKER_00]: And so she, she had all these good feelings about her mom, but that she realized, oh no, she, [SPEAKER_00]: said all the damage he thinks to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think Jason is trying to protect everybody. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't want my son to feel how you felt like you had the she was able to be fake to you or she was able to be fake outwardly and look how that affected you. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to pretend my son from this. [SPEAKER_00]: So I get where he was coming from and I also I don't understand Marjorie not being like [SPEAKER_00]: My kid, my kid, I think Bailey's their daughter, if I understood, you know, I needed, like, a white board to keep up with all of this, but like, if if Mars is going to go above and beyond for her daughter and drive this crazy 80 miles just to take her to school to make sure she's got a great.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't impact her high school. [SPEAKER_00]: why wouldn't you extend the same thing to your son? [SPEAKER_00]: And I couldn't figure out like is Ryan just Jason's son, but I know it's both their sons. [SPEAKER_00]: It's both their sons together. [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know, but because it's her mom, yeah, it's a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Marjorie really needs to step in and not to her blinders on, not only to protect her son, but also to protect her husband. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's no, husband is not. [SPEAKER_01]: Her priority right now is no. [SPEAKER_01]: He never is. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, never is. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's why he's going so hard in the paint on this.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't, I don't understand Marjorie. [SPEAKER_01]: I really don't. [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I don't know what she stands for, or what she's, you know, the things that she fights so hard for are not the important things. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is what I mean by, if you spend your time seeking that validation from that parent that has made it clear, [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think is going to change?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you think there's going to be a chance to everything suffers. [SPEAKER_01]: You suffer and you drag it now. [SPEAKER_01]: Now your kid is suffering, but you're still deep in the pain of wanting their approval of your mom, that your kid is suffering it. [SPEAKER_01]: Now a seven year old is already feeling rejected.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like a seven year old has feeling is already feeling like a family member is choosing another family member. [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I'm also mad at Bailey because don't come pick me up if you're not going to pick up my brother. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, like, again, that is something I've done in my personal life where it's like, you know, if you're not going to do this, don't drag me along.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't let me be the favorite. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want it. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so, you know, I just this really made me see red of like, what are we doing here. [SPEAKER_01]: And the thing is like, [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to see what he's saying because she did admit it when she was saying, oh, I was so beautiful in the park and then she's like, you know, the reason why she does what she does.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you do know that she's doing something and even if your mom doesn't like Jason, what the heck did a seven-year-old do to you to take it out on him? [SPEAKER_00]: That's not going to be horrible. [SPEAKER_01]: So like hated it. [SPEAKER_01]: Listen, my grandma did that to me like she just treated me like trash and it's truly truly fucked up It's something that lives with you and it's just like you know, anyways, so Jason says yeah, she goes through the motion that's Marjorie's mom and does what's right, but in her heart it's not there [SPEAKER_01]: Marjorie is like, I mean, it's fucked up, I agree, but she still says, but you can't say that.

[SPEAKER_01]: You don't know what's in her heart. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, Marjorie, stop talking like this is casual. [SPEAKER_01]: This is the thing that's going to live with your son and going to manifest in how many years later and what are you going to do about it at that point. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, does it matter?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, her actions, her actions speaks louder than any, I hate that Marjorie has made a side with Jason once and many times. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: That's some crux of it all. [SPEAKER_01]: So, on a says, I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I was feeling more in this episode, but on a says, like, [SPEAKER_01]: Jason, your feelings are leaking out.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, well, I just really feel bad for Ryan as he should, yeah, I felt like the orna was off this one. [SPEAKER_00]: Like we're targeting the wrong person was he getting Rally up. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but he says when he cares and he should care, he should care about his kid. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think the target of this discussion was not the right person.

[SPEAKER_00]: This definitely should have been like margarie. [SPEAKER_00]: look what's happening, look what's happening to your son, look what's happening to your son, look what's happening to your husband and you're at the, you're at the crux of all this, like you're the person that can change that.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have the power, not yours, you have the power, or don't you see that in your bid to have your mom's approval, like maybe it's carrying over from when you were younger and you're choosing not to see [SPEAKER_01]: it for what it is and instead you're making it nice, look better than it actually is and you should be protecting him and then maybe she'll see that way but she just goes up to him and is like because Ryan is like if we're up to me I would just stop it all together like I don't want him to deal with this and order is like that she says it's fake and order is like talking to me about someone being fake and [SPEAKER_01]: I'm with him because he's like you are protecting your mom and then he says like his dad his dad was absent and he felt like an outsider like his dad left his mom and started to hold or cheated on his mom, started to hold you family and married the woman that he cheated with and every time he went over he felt like a guest.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why this is so loud for him. [SPEAKER_01]: And Marjorie is like, oh, he's just trying to make any little thing to a big issue. [SPEAKER_01]: And Jen, I lost it this time. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like this is where you need to be punched in the face. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is another time where Jason's telling you and even in the session where you're in a setting where you're supposed to listen to him, he's telling you how he feels and you're like, no, boring.

[SPEAKER_00]: Next, that's crazy, wild. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's our child, that's seven. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: But he says, you can say anything you want, but your mom is ice cold, bro. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm not trying to project, but honor says like, but you are. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what are we doing here?

[SPEAKER_01]: And honor says like, like, you are speaking to her, like you're speaking to your father, and it was like, wait, so you think I'm fabricating stuff? [SPEAKER_01]: Just like no, but you're amplifying stuff and what happened to you is not what is happening to your son And you're inducing this feeling to him and Marjorie's like, yes, exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not the same and I'm like, no Wait, I just No [SPEAKER_00]: And we talked about we're talking about we're in the dad's and his this is a present dad This is a dad that's sticking up for their kid and this is a dad that's like I see this I'm gonna protect my son for this and he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt or he doesn't get not the credit But he doesn't get the acknowledgement that the fault here is with the mom and the mom being murdered So that yeah, this what this one was infuriating this one this could have been like a three couple episode [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, it wasn't being heard, you know, in fact they're making him say like he's overreacting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Can you really overreact when he comes to kids in this day and age though? [SPEAKER_00]: No, not in family and not when you're protecting them and not when you're protecting them from family. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, my goodness. [SPEAKER_01]: But anyways, she says, um, when an issue is unresolved in someone, they will always find a way to repeat the issue and resolve it, whether it's mastering something they can master before or write something that went wrong and it takes deep work to get out of that pattern.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, by the way, the session was over. [SPEAKER_01]: That was it. [SPEAKER_01]: This is her piece of voice over. [SPEAKER_01]: As we suddenly see Marjorie Jason and Ryan presently like walking a like a pier. [SPEAKER_01]: And then we get a montage of all the couples as that was the theme among them all, like just them with their family.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I just want to point out that we got pictures of Sienna with her mom and dad. [SPEAKER_01]: But how was her mom a single mom? [SPEAKER_00]: I totally missed that. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I got caught up with Sienna with her hair blown out of relax and I was like, oh, that's the different version of you versus the version that you are now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, I'm so curious about that that transition and how she's changed and what made her go natural. [SPEAKER_00]: So many questions. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, [SPEAKER_01]: It could be a number of things. [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't control. [SPEAKER_01]: I said I would never go natural, but I was just like, no more relaxers and it is what it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, but yeah, but that was my question, was just there were pictures like, if he, he wasn't there at all, I don't know how he would become visiting a family picture and it was more than one. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I think she's the only child because she wasn't the only child there between her.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, I just wanted more, like, how is she a single mom and when did, if their dad was there when did she leave? [SPEAKER_01]: and stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so that was it. [SPEAKER_00]: I was I was emotionally exhausted when we tire not or I was emotionally exhausted when we started and now I'm physically.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well before we leave, he tells people where they can find you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you can find us trips and through Southeast Asia we're in Bali now [SPEAKER_00]: JNS.adventures on Instagram and YouTube. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, guys, we knew where to find me. [SPEAKER_01]: It is Taint Talks of all of the social media platforms, Instagram, threads, blue sky, Twitter, where you can send an email at Taint Talks at gmail.com.

[SPEAKER_01]: Please give me a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and stay subscribed. [SPEAKER_01]: So you don't miss out on any new episodes. [SPEAKER_01]: Until next time, guys, also let us know. [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think about this episode? [SPEAKER_01]: And every single couple, and especially Jason, like Jason, what do you mean?

[SPEAKER_01]: Where do you stand on all of that? [SPEAKER_01]: Let me in. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much.

Couples Therapy: S5 Ep. 5 w/Jenn

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