Couples Therapy: S5 Ep. 8 w/Jenn

0:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Hi everybody, welcome to another episode of Tain Talks. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Tain, here to talk about couples therapy, season five, episode eight, as usual with me is Jen. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi Jen, how are you? [SPEAKER_00]: I'd Tain, I am so excited, which is totally on me because this episode was not sad.

0:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I feel like we're getting to resolution. [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a lot of times, [SPEAKER_00]: in the season where we don't get resolution and I feel like, okay, we're getting closer to something. [SPEAKER_00]: So it'll good mood. [SPEAKER_00]: How about you? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it is the penultimate episode before the panel is so I hope we're getting stuff.

0:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I do feel though that it's the same as the most recent episodes where it feels rushed and we're just going through because I'm like, oh, wait, we're done with the episode. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, cool. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, [SPEAKER_01]: They know that, but see a point. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yes, they do have to come to some resolution, and there's only so much we can see because as we can see in the montage, they start, I mean, this episode they started with a montage and there's a whole bunch of sessions that we didn't see.

1:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but they had so I mean good for them because at the end of the day right it's a TV show but the most important thing is hopefully these couples are getting what they need out of this right because you know for some there be's not cheap everyone always like go to therapy go to therapy but it's not accessible to everybody so [SPEAKER_01]: If they're able to get this free, and the price of freedom is telling everybody a business, so we can talk about it and judge you.

1:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's a good trade-off. [SPEAKER_01]: I would never do it, but I hope it works out for them as what I'm trying to say I guess. [SPEAKER_00]: This is the price of freedom. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's a sign of a good episode. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I felt like when it got to the end, I was like, oh, it's done.

1:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I knew it was the end because we got to the last couple, but enough happened that I didn't feel like we [SPEAKER_00]: Good job. [SPEAKER_01]: I think what I liked about the episode is I think now we've spent enough time with this people or maybe there was a shift but we are seeing everybody's true colors.

2:17 [SPEAKER_01]: No one's trying to be at their best for or not. [SPEAKER_01]: No one's trying to do like oh okay maybe this isn't what everybody's just being honest about what they think and being who they are and that includes you know my [SPEAKER_01]: because there's still place to hide anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: But let's get into it.

2:35 [SPEAKER_01]: We start with this and then she and they're supposed to be breaking up. [SPEAKER_01]: But they are actually on that journey right now. [SPEAKER_01]: We do start with a montage of their sessions, like I mentioned earlier. [SPEAKER_01]: And [SPEAKER_01]: Clinton says you are special to me because of who you are and she's like, well, if I was, why are you seeking other people?

2:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And then another session, she's saying he hurt me and people who hurt me don't deserve to get close to me again. [SPEAKER_01]: He's saying I feel very inadequate when you focus on how I could not contribute financially. [SPEAKER_01]: He says he and the other person got closer as friends because they're both autistic.

3:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's something that they have in common. [SPEAKER_01]: She says, like, you know, she's here to understand where he's at and if they can possibly have a friendship. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, why? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand people friendships right after break up like I think we talk about it a lot on the podcast like even if there's going to be a friendship it is not going to be now right and it's not going to be the same and it's not going to be what you think it is and I think especially if you have no resolution.

3:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Like all of this stuff is still gonna come up in your friendships. [SPEAKER_00]: So us being friends doesn't absolve hurt feelings It doesn't absolve I'm still gonna blame you for this. [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's not gonna be kind of that Selfless kind of friendship that you think it's gonna be so no I I don't see any point to it I'm literally one of those people that win [SPEAKER_00]: I break up with somebody you don't exist anymore and I think because I'm somebody of that like when we're when we were together I gave you every chance every ounce of energy that I had and now that we're broken up like we're done like I have no I've nothing left to give to you so no my ex is don't exist in my world.

4:30 [SPEAKER_01]: way to go Jen. [SPEAKER_01]: So I told you my cold dark art. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, she says that she feels like she's not she's failing therapy and that she's not opening up enough or not ask if both of them. [SPEAKER_01]: She asked both of them. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, do you feel that this is useful?

4:49 [SPEAKER_01]: He says yes, it is and she's just like, I don't want to do this anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: So Arna is talking to Virginia and saying that, you know, she feels like they're stuck. [SPEAKER_01]: Like at this point, they're just getting agitated with each other. [SPEAKER_01]: And then Virginia says, like in a therapy context, you can't have an amicable break up because it's not so amicable.

5:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Virginia. [SPEAKER_01]: I love you. [SPEAKER_01]: I love you. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you wonder what it would be like if we had a season of Culpus Therapy, but it was Virginia? [SPEAKER_00]: I do kind of, and maybe they're, I wonder if they're team us up for that. [SPEAKER_00]: But like, I just want to see if she's a snarky.

5:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And she has a couple as she is like, when they're out of session or if she's like, or when I work, she's just even killed. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I just want to see Virginia be like, are you serious? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, when you get to certain age, you just don't care anymore, I think Virginia.

5:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, please, like, uh, right. [SPEAKER_01]: But she's supposed to be neutral. [SPEAKER_01]: So, right. [SPEAKER_01]: It'll be fun to see how she reacts. [SPEAKER_01]: So, um, she says that they have a better chance if they separate. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is honor to, oh, no.

5:55 [SPEAKER_01]: This is Virginia to, [SPEAKER_01]: To Orna if they separate and then she advises like, you know, she would definitely see them separately Orna was like, yeah, that's a good idea But I am not their therapist and Virginia says well as their couples therapist as a couple's therapist I have done individual work within their sessions and she's like huh [SPEAKER_01]: That's not a bad idea, might try that.

6:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So then we get like a side-by-side, we get Clinton, then we get Shay, but I mean, human being, so I can't show that visually, so I'll walk you through it. [SPEAKER_01]: So she's out's Clinton. [SPEAKER_01]: He says he's doing well, and all he wants is for her to take responsibility for why their relationship crumbles the way he did.

6:38 [SPEAKER_01]: on a says, well, it has been difficult for you to really own what happened with these other people that you got involved with. [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think like you took it seriously how it affected shade. [SPEAKER_01]: He says it doesn't make any sense to him how it affected her because she's the one who opened the relationship and he's kind of scoffing at the whole thing.

7:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you kind of [SPEAKER_01]: No, I was going to say, do you feel like this season it was obvious who's side owner was on for certain couples because I feel that way for certain couples. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think that she, especially like with Marjorie and Jason, like she definitely was on Marjorie side for whatever reason.

7:24 [SPEAKER_00]: and I think for this one, I don't know if she was trying to be more sensitive to Clinton and it kind of felt like she was on his side in that way because I don't know if she was just out of her depth with his autism. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, for certain couples, I do feel like she was on one side or the other.

7:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know, with Clinton, I like, I like that he wasn't his [SPEAKER_00]: And he wasn't so like combative. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's what we needed to see. [SPEAKER_00]: Like you away from her is a totally different person. [SPEAKER_00]: But also, you are not taking responsibility of what you're doing.

8:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Even her opening the relationship has nothing to do with the fact that you lied to her. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think I liked that they, she confronted them separately. [SPEAKER_00]: So in their individual sessions, she challenged them both on their thoughts, which I really liked. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm glad we got to see that.

8:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she challenged them both, but I actually think she's on Shay's side with this. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think what Clinton was getting at, like, not saying is right, but in his brain was like, it's that control thing that he feels like even before even if he had told her, I think he feels like it's all hypothetical because we'll never know.

8:47 [SPEAKER_01]: He feels like she'll still be upset. [SPEAKER_01]: Because the bottom line is, we don't have enough information, but my projection also is like, when you open the relationship, she's like, I'm gonna get something out of it, but he's not because he's dependent on me. [SPEAKER_01]: But then when he's beginning to be free, she's like, what the hell?

9:03 [SPEAKER_01]: What is happening right now? [SPEAKER_01]: So I think maybe that's what he was getting at, but I mean, he's still lied, even if he's by your mission. [SPEAKER_00]: But big, big lies repeated lies. [SPEAKER_00]: Even in lie, even though he was caught, lie until he had to read his own words, was like, oh yeah, I didn't say that, my bad.

9:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so for Shay's part, um, she says like she's mad, like he just moved on so easy and found a new relationship. [SPEAKER_01]: So again, besides not hurt, I'm all like, are you hurt because you love him? [SPEAKER_01]: Or are you hurt because of your ego? [SPEAKER_00]: Both, and cause, yeah, both is going to be true.

9:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I think both, I think the idea of, [SPEAKER_00]: you were like I supported you so you were supposed to be grateful for all of that I was giving to you but also at the same time you said these big things to me about how you know because I remember at the beginning she was like I'm his only source of anything and so for her to be like oh you're my only source of anything but then quickly jumped when something else came your way is probably super painful to her so I felt bad for she.

10:10 [SPEAKER_00]: in this episode. [SPEAKER_00]: I really do. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I do, but that's it goes back to, and you know what's the funny part? [SPEAKER_01]: This is what we're talking about the last episode where I was saying like would she take responsibility? [SPEAKER_01]: for the part that she played in their relationship.

10:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody's saying like it's her fault, but also that part of, because she did go into this thinking like, okay, if he's indebted to me and trying something different, this should work, this should stay. [SPEAKER_01]: So don't like even going into that, having that expectation is like, since his solely depending on me, I saved him from his mom, [SPEAKER_01]: And in a way, it's kind of similar to Nessa and Dreha.

10:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Like if I'm the savior and I'm the villain at the same time, and you just think that that person owes you this love that you're looking for. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, yeah, anyways. [SPEAKER_00]: So hey, guys, oh, go ahead. [SPEAKER_00]: And that was a similar thing between the two of them separately, and they said it in different ways, but they both said, I just want the other person to take responsibility for their part and the relationship failing.

11:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And they both said it. [SPEAKER_00]: separately and differently. [SPEAKER_00]: And I wish, and maybe we'll see that in the next episode that and maybe Orna was trying to get there with calling them out on their behaviors, but yeah, they're, they both want the same thing. [SPEAKER_00]: They want the, they both want the other person to sincerely without being prompted, say, this is what I did wrong.

11:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So yes, she says I don't mind being the person that caused harm in our relationship, but like, where is your part? [SPEAKER_01]: So basically what Jen just said, that she wants him to also take responsibility. [SPEAKER_01]: But I do feel that. [SPEAKER_01]: is a person who bestadizes apologies.

11:52 [SPEAKER_01]: He's very quick to say, I see that I'm sorry. [SPEAKER_01]: I see that I'm sorry, but then he does the same thing over and over again. [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know that I can say the same for Shay, Shay, we argued to the death at Nup. [SPEAKER_01]: It was from a good intentions, so no.

12:10 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not what I did, you know. [SPEAKER_01]: So she says that he flip-flops from saying that she's the person who cared so vis-rely for him to this person who never acknowledge his feelings. [SPEAKER_01]: And honor is like, yeah, he does not say that. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's your interpretation.

12:27 [SPEAKER_01]: But he didn't say you don't acknowledge his feelings. [SPEAKER_01]: What he does say is you don't acknowledge your feelings. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, oh, er, yeah, but she needed it here. [SPEAKER_00]: She needed that mirror. [SPEAKER_00]: And again, that's the ideal situation and the therapy session where somebody gets to be a mirror for you when you're not able to see it.

12:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So perfect. [SPEAKER_01]: Perfect. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but one of doesn't take notes during a session. [SPEAKER_01]: It would be impossible. [SPEAKER_01]: I had a therapist who didn't take notes and he drove me nuts. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember anything?

13:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, do you know who I am? [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me first to me that you know who I am. [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm like, wow, like how does that work? [SPEAKER_01]: But I think you know, you don't help people say, [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Disney created fairy tales and unrealistic expectations. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, why do I expect them to take notes?

13:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that because that's what I saw on TV? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't who made that rule, I guess. [SPEAKER_00]: Zaby, and I think maybe, and to that point or to your point, you would think that, oh, there's no way you're remembering everything about every person that you're hearing. [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if that's the goal.

13:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's remember the little piece of my new shot. [SPEAKER_00]: I think the goal is for them to listen for a pattern. [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if I would be so distracted by writing that I would miss that. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, but I could see how that would be annoying. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I think it's a TV a lot.

13:56 [SPEAKER_00]: We see the person writing. [SPEAKER_00]: But also they don't say a lot of like me. [SPEAKER_00]: And that would drive me to be honest. [SPEAKER_00]: How did that make you feel? [SPEAKER_00]: You tell me, right, exactly, exactly, exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: I needed to do ever watch, insecure.

14:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: So there was one where when Molly was going at therapy and her therapist was real kind of not confrontational with her, but she challenged her. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I want that therapist. [SPEAKER_00]: Sign me up for that lady. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I need. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want that.

14:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel really hard, like, please be gentle. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so Orna says, like, um, she tells Shay, she's still in her session with Shay and saying, like, can you admit that you actually let him off the hook that by being so righteous and gracious with him? [SPEAKER_01]: And I think I wrote down, huh?

14:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think she let him off the hook. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what am I missing? [SPEAKER_00]: I think she meant that he gets to get by without consequences because you're being so righteous. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: Like you're taking the [SPEAKER_00]: Because he's wrong, he's absolutely wrong, but because she's being so righteous, that that becomes the focus of the issue, versus him being wrong.

15:10 [SPEAKER_00]: That's how I took it. [SPEAKER_01]: How is she being righteous, I guess, is when I'm lost? [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's, while the times where she would interrupt and be like, you know, you bring this to my table and I've done this for you and done it at it now, like you get so focused on what you did that it overshadows what he did.

15:30 [SPEAKER_00]: That's how I took it, and I'm not explaining it well. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it didn't make sense to be in the moment. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, it didn't to me. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I don't think she's gonna rush. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think she's letting him get away with anything. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, she hasn't been even killed.

15:42 [SPEAKER_01]: She has yelled at him and she has made it very clear how she feels. [SPEAKER_01]: But she tells them both that it would be good for both of them to take a break from each other and they have a few options. [SPEAKER_01]: They can say a nice goodbye. [SPEAKER_01]: Or for the three of them to sit together one more time in the next few weeks.

16:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, or no, that's too. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not a few options. [SPEAKER_01]: That's two options. [SPEAKER_01]: They both agree. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, instead of shade to just say, I'll take the latter or I'll take for three of us like, I'm okay with the secondary. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, okay.

16:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's drop. [SPEAKER_01]: Clinton said I think that would be okay, too. [SPEAKER_01]: So they both agree that they're all going to meet together for the finale. [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't say that, but it's the finale. [SPEAKER_01]: And Orna says people have romantic fantasies that therapy will make them go back to the honeymoon phase, but they usually get bruised because they are confronting their partner with difficult material.

16:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know anybody who's well, I guess you think that things are going to get better, but they have to get worse before they get better. [SPEAKER_00]: Or so, [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I think it's the way people talk about it. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, anything happens, just go to therapy.

16:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it doesn't work involved in that. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just a wand, so. [SPEAKER_00]: And also if you had knitting, it's also you had knitting the things that you've done wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just going in the therapy and the therapist goes, yep, your partner sucks. [SPEAKER_00]: So you're awesome.

17:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this stuff that you've done wrong, too. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: OK, we'll take our first break and we'll be right back. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we're back with Jen's favorite couple Chris and Sienna and they're sitting in the hallway hand holding sitting together holding their hands.

17:22 [SPEAKER_01]: they get into therapy and Sienna's like she woke up with a bad headache and you start spinning and says that she thinks that she was since the fact that she was dimming herself to keep the peace. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to prep you all like this was a whole difference Sienna. [SPEAKER_01]: I had to be like I didn't miss an episode right because this is not the warm fuzzy.

17:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It's okay honey. [SPEAKER_01]: Let me rub your head but you had on my lap. [SPEAKER_01]: This is the fuck you Chris like for real for real. [SPEAKER_00]: CNN says there we go, you know this is the version I love I was like go I don't like your top your top is really distracting to me But yes go do this [SPEAKER_01]: So she says, like, I've been dimming myself to keep the peace and 14 years and some later.

18:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know who I am without you. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know where my skin ends, where your start. [SPEAKER_01]: And now, I'm curious what life would be like if I'm not with you. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, Nessa. [UNKNOWN]: No, it's the end of the game. [UNKNOWN]: It's the end of the game.

18:23 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the end of the game.

18:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the end of the game.

18:37 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the end of the game. [SPEAKER_01]: It [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was going to say that's the thing we hate about moms is that stuff I want for a couple therapy. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to see these four couples out of dinner.

18:57 [SPEAKER_00]: It would be a hot mess. [SPEAKER_00]: I love to see that I would love to see Jason with like Dreia because he's going to be like, well, Trump's not doing anything that bad and Dreia's like, the fuck, what do you mean, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Right, but anyways, so she doesn't know if a separate is the thing that she needs and I'm like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa [SPEAKER_01]: this show is giving me whiplash like we're getting places but I feel like I'm blocking out and missing something because how did I heck did we get to separation?

19:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And she says it's so casually that I wasn't sure that's what I heard also. [SPEAKER_01]: So on earth says, um, yeah, let's not rush to external fixes yet, like slow down. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see what's going on first. [SPEAKER_01]: And she asked Chris, how are you feeling? [SPEAKER_01]: And I think, again, that's one thing I do like about or not to see, not the season in general, she always asked the other person when you heard this, like, how are you feeling?

19:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Like a temperature check of that. [SPEAKER_01]: And he said, honestly, I appreciate that she felt the feeling versus bearing it because from what we've heard, you know, she disassociates and is like choosing joy and [SPEAKER_01]: because I'm gonna confess, like in one of those people back in the day, I used to type like choose joy people annoying me, like.

20:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm choosing joy. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, happiness is a choice, yay. [SPEAKER_01]: Like positivity. [SPEAKER_01]: There you go. [SPEAKER_01]: Stop it. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, do it if it helps you, but me. [SPEAKER_01]: Stop it. [SPEAKER_01]: So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so [SPEAKER_01]: She said resentments, like can she speak more about what she feels about resentment and it's always funny to me when owner asked a question and I'm still like, what does that mean huh, but they don't understand what she's saying and she's very clear about what she feels and I really appreciate that and she's like, well, I feel really angry.

20:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel angry that I had to find out it's not like he told me I had to find out and I find out all these things in therapy. [SPEAKER_01]: And now, I have to manage all this pain, but for him, it's like, got this of my chest, it feels so much better. [SPEAKER_01]: And for her, she hates that, she fucking hates that.

21:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I fucking hate that so much. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, she was mad, man, guys, she was really mad. [SPEAKER_00]: And she should have been, I think, and I don't know if if you caught this, did the cuddle thing go on for two years before she found out? [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I wrote my notes.

21:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's my next line. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I was like, yeah, go ahead, go go go. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she was like, it must be so nice to fuck people for two years, get found out and be like, ooh, it's all found out and I'm free and it's out and then that's it. [SPEAKER_01]: And then you get to get it all out and then what am I supposed to do with that?

21:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in my house, I'm like, final, Sienna. [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the party. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: two years that went on two and that's beyond a choice. [SPEAKER_00]: That is active, active. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm actively doing this for two years and how much did she find once she found that out?

22:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're not laying in my lap after that, sir. [SPEAKER_00]: Felidation. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would cut all of your hair off. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: I think the question is if she did not find out, would he have continued? [SPEAKER_01]: Did he stop just because of that? [SPEAKER_01]: Is he still having urges because of that?

22:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Because if the whole thing of why he did that was because he felt [SPEAKER_01]: not good enough, or the reason that he's given, he has to be feeling that now because now she's mad, now she really knows. [SPEAKER_01]: Like back then, it was a youth thing where you just didn't feel good enough, but now she's really pissed off at you and maybe actually does now feel like she deserves better.

22:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you have that feeling now, are you having urges to go [SPEAKER_01]: cuddle, aka fuck of the people. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and was this a suffered filling prophecy where you like, oh, well, if I do this, she's gonna leave me, oh, look, she's gonna leave, she left me, I deserve this. [SPEAKER_00]: Or there's a part of him that's probably turned on by her being angry, I don't know, he's a complicated dude, but he did handle himself well in this episode, I was waiting for him to turn this around on him, but I am proud of him for giving her the space to feel what she felt.

23:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I want to believe that he's actually like, contrite, but you cannot vouch for anybody. [SPEAKER_01]: Like at the end of the day, you're still in man who did what you did to her. [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, for two years. [SPEAKER_01]: She says he can free himself of it, but she can't, because now, once again, she has this deep fucking anger.

23:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, again, guys, she mad. [SPEAKER_01]: She says she also wonders if she had stopped, if she stops adapting herself, she doesn't think that they would be together. [SPEAKER_01]: and she has rage and she can't hold it in, but she doesn't want to bring the rage to their marriage because she loves him and she loves their family.

24:10 [SPEAKER_01]: And are you feeling he's all like, I'm all for it? [SPEAKER_01]: Like she's just, you know, expressing her feelings and he would rather that. [SPEAKER_01]: And he says like, [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, both of them can't go into a room, going Apshit for like 30 minutes is probably not the best course of action, they're all laughing, he laughs, she laughs.

24:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking, yeah, you can, they're rage rooms. [SPEAKER_01]: They do that all the time and go and see how the TV shows. [SPEAKER_01]: Then, orders like, oh, that's an interesting fantasy. [SPEAKER_01]: And he says, oh, yeah, it's a call back to past therapy sessions. [SPEAKER_01]: I once again, I'm lost.

24:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't understand what is happening or what they're talking about. [SPEAKER_01]: And then Sienna just switches. [SPEAKER_01]: She was laughing and then she just switches and is like, call back to what? [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, the whole therapy process and the history, me still lost.

24:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what they're talking about. [SPEAKER_01]: And then she goes, huh, interesting terminology that you chose. [SPEAKER_01]: Are you not going to address that? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh my God, what is happening? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what's happening. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you know, that lost.

25:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And then she goes, yeah, the angry black woman trope, I'm like, oh, lost, I don't, yeah, like, I don't, I don't know if this is editing or how we got here or is she just mad at him, but I was like, wait, what? [SPEAKER_01]: Then, owner, I don't know, owner doesn't take it the way she takes it or maybe I miss interpreting because owner is like, well, maybe the angry black woman doesn't allow herself to be the angry black woman.

25:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, is that the right response? [SPEAKER_01]: Why? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just, is what I'm trying to say. [SPEAKER_00]: I agree. [SPEAKER_00]: I agree. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, wait, what's happening here? [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know, and we don't see it often. [SPEAKER_00]: So how many times this has happened in the course of the relationship where he said something and she took it as from a racial perspective that this is something that's against me as a black woman.

26:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it came out of the blue because we've never heard it before. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I think what I wrote down was like, I wasn't expecting this, but also it's the first time we see her identifying as black. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, you know, you can't tell people what to identify as and [SPEAKER_01]: When you see her, because even when we started the season, we both had different, you know, observational what she was like different, think she's not, would you say she's originally in big was physically?

26:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would say, especially when they showed the pictures of her with her hair straightened, I would think she was a white woman with her hair straightened. [SPEAKER_00]: I think the only thing that gives me is like, oh, she's, she's racially something is the [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, she's white passing.

26:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so and also I'm not going to get over it. [SPEAKER_01]: All I know is when they asked her what she was. [SPEAKER_01]: She said hi dad is black and her mom is Danish. [SPEAKER_01]: I just I can't hear so I'm just like, and then she's never talked about even when she talked about her struggles as a child or anything.

27:13 [SPEAKER_01]: She said, oh, I was overweight, but she never said anything about, oh, I was biracial like she just hasn't talked about race. [SPEAKER_01]: So coming now and then saying that it's like we have to adjust because oh that's the thing that you know is a thing for you but she does say now being in the professional world so many times she witnesses this and she feels like she's small you know how identity is and basically she has to make herself small when things like that happen and she feels like she just wants to break it all down and she wants to break them all down [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm guessing the silent part is building back up, brick by brick, even though she asked for a separation.

27:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm reading it wrong too. [SPEAKER_01]: So he says I can't imagine what she is feeling. [SPEAKER_01]: He just wants to be there to help her through it. [SPEAKER_01]: He says you can trust. [SPEAKER_01]: He was like, okay, I know you can necessarily trust, but please trust me that this is not going to happen again.

28:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And that was it. [SPEAKER_01]: And then we see her in the library. [SPEAKER_01]: looking beautiful by the way. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, whatever that shirt is, you had in therapy, please take it off. [SPEAKER_00]: This is your lane. [SPEAKER_00]: This long leather skirt, this is your lane.

28:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think what I was feeling from all of her work talk was now that she's been out of the workforce for a real long time, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And so now she's back in it and realizing like, oh, there's all of these racial implications, not only being, I don't know what she does, but [SPEAKER_00]: being a woman, but also being a woman of color, or even perceived as being a woman of color.

28:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, you've got it. [SPEAKER_00]: She's probably got a code switch in some places, so she's got all this frustration at work, and then she's got come home and it has all this anger and frustration at home. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, she doesn't have any pee, so I can see why we're seeing now a much more frustrated, less kind of like, woo, woo, woo, less joy version of Sienna is because she's getting it from multiple places.

29:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Orner's work is probably working, or that too. [SPEAKER_01]: And she's actually feeling feels because that's the one thing we got from Chris. [SPEAKER_01]: Because he's not like, oh my God, I don't know where all these angers come from. [SPEAKER_01]: He's just like, you know what? [SPEAKER_01]: I will take you feeling and actually processing it than what we've been going through.

29:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So, and to your point that he handled it well, I do think he did because there's a case where God, if he was Jason, oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't know where this is coming from. [SPEAKER_01]: She was fine. [SPEAKER_01]: She never found out everything would have been great But now that she did but Chris is just like, you know what?

29:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm wrong. [SPEAKER_01]: I am wrong till forever But also part of it is like Chris default is self-fagulation He just wants to punish himself and is like finally she's mad at me [SPEAKER_01]: Finally, she can punish me. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's complicated now. [SPEAKER_01]: These two, I got to say, I'm not going to say just him.

30:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I think Sienna's has been covered in rainbows and sunshine for so long. [SPEAKER_01]: And addressing this for the first time as an adult, there's a lot she's going to play a lot of catch-up, you know? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not only what's happening between the two of them, it's also her kind of addressing this rape that she's been, [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pushing down for so long, it's very violent rape and so yeah, she's going through a lot, a lot's coming out and I do have to give him credit for not turning this because I was waiting for him to be like well this happened to me too and I'm my life was hard to like I'm so proud of him and you know I don't like him.

30:41 [SPEAKER_00]: For him to like give her the space to be angry and then at the end to ask like I'm not going to demand forgive this I'm going to ask for it. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I get we got a gold start or enough or for putting a change in Chris over there Yeah, it's like I'm like giving Chris credit is or no You get no credit.

31:00 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, take another break and we'll be right back All right, Marjorie and Jason [SPEAKER_01]: We start with them watching TV at home and he's like rubbing his arm and they have like a picture ornament a picture of them and with a little caption of our love is a once in a lifetime love and I'm like [SPEAKER_01]: Virginia says, Marjorie has acknowledged that she knows that she shouldn't be me.

31:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And honor was like, yeah, like she's really changed. [SPEAKER_01]: Like she hasn't said any mean thing at all. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, we miss that. [SPEAKER_00]: We must have zoomed into the future because we really asked, we said all the mean things. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, did we forget that last week?

31:41 [SPEAKER_00]: She was on her mother side and putting everybody before Jason's that we must have zoomed forward into the future. [SPEAKER_00]: It's something changed and I wish we knew what it was. [SPEAKER_00]: But I guess I'm just happy to see Marge, which they flash to something in their lives, and it's like Marge and Jason, like who?

31:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Who wants to be called Marge? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm glad that whatever they need it to get over to make her less mean, they got there. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, owner is like something softened between them. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, we don't know, but I'm glad you know, she gets, she's like, she gets pissed off at him, but she finds her way back to find the good in him.

32:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, are we talking about Madrid and Jason now at this point, but okay, so now we're in therapy. [SPEAKER_01]: Marjorie says she feels really good. [SPEAKER_01]: Like she's so in love with him, but he doesn't necessarily do the same. [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I was going to ask you, Jason looks not gone because I know he's losing weight.

32:39 [SPEAKER_01]: He looks haggard. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's the word. [SPEAKER_01]: He's growing a beard. [SPEAKER_01]: So he's scruffy. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess. [SPEAKER_01]: And he also just kind of looked checked out in this session to me. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's married to Marjorie. [SPEAKER_00]: He really has to walk the man to look.

32:57 [SPEAKER_01]: The man is not perfect. [SPEAKER_00]: The man who perfects the man. [SPEAKER_00]: He is going through some stuff at home and also losing weight. [SPEAKER_00]: Like he looked, they flashed him in the gym later. [SPEAKER_00]: And so he looked fairly healthy there. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, maybe it's the hat.

33:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, he definitely looked less, not combative and not beaten down. [SPEAKER_00]: But he looked less in this episode. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so he says she's like, he says I love you, but he's, oh, okay, let me go back. [SPEAKER_01]: She's just like, oh, I'm just so we love him.

33:31 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a turn in the blah, blah, blah, blah, but he doesn't necessarily express it that he doesn't really say he says I love you. [SPEAKER_01]: I know he loves me, but he's not very verbal about loving stuff and things like that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's what I mean by just checked out.

33:51 [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, oh, we done yet. [SPEAKER_00]: So then, uh, March, I took that as like I can't trust this because she's going to be nice to me for five minutes and then a wrap from it is going to come in the next five minutes. [SPEAKER_00]: So I didn't take it as him being checked out. [SPEAKER_00]: I took him to go, I took it as him being like, yeah, this is temporary.

34:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Like whatever she's happy about, I have to wait because something she's unhappy about is coming. [SPEAKER_00]: So that was the sense I got from him was not checked out. [SPEAKER_00]: cautious. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think that's fair. [SPEAKER_01]: Like they don't trust each other. [SPEAKER_01]: I do again.

34:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if they like each other fundamentally. [SPEAKER_01]: But Marge says like she's not complaining that she's just saying that she has extra love for him and he says like, okay, thanks. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what I did to turn that around for you. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, is that even really true if he doesn't even notice that she has extra love for him or is he just really.

34:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, check out that he's just like, oh, yeah, you be nice to be sure whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: And then she was like, you know why he's like, I don't. [SPEAKER_01]: If I did, I would say she's like, of course, there's no way you don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, man, he doesn't know. [SPEAKER_01]: Tell him because I don't know who's telling the truth or not at this point.

35:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So she's like, yeah, we've been having sex more often, but it's not like we don't talk about that at the same time that he says that's embarrassing. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, this man doesn't want to be here. [SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, yeah, that we don't talk about stuff like that.

35:18 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't talk about it. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, why are you saying that? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what is embarrassing about having sex with you? [SPEAKER_00]: Why? [SPEAKER_00]: Also, yeah, you guys, you guys are not 12 years old. [SPEAKER_00]: You can talk about everything that's other than the sun.

35:27 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't talk about having sex with your wife. [SPEAKER_00]: And I get, you know, that would, [SPEAKER_00]: I would think that that would make him happier. [SPEAKER_00]: If this was Drea, this would make her happier. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you have her. [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if it's just that she's initiating it more.

35:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's just kind of laying there and letting it happen. [SPEAKER_00]: But there's something about this sex that is not like. [SPEAKER_00]: not connecting with him, but I don't think he's connecting it with increased love. [SPEAKER_00]: And again, because he doesn't know where it's coming from, he can't trust that it's not temporary.

36:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So I, again, I'm not trying to be adjacent apologies, but I could see why if a dog is beating and beating and beating, then you give it a treat, like it's not going to be grateful for the treat. [SPEAKER_00]: It's waiting for the next beating. [SPEAKER_01]: Then he should have just set that.

36:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we can. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's got the words and the words for that. [SPEAKER_00]: He just knows [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so honor was like, okay, that's great. [SPEAKER_01]: That's good, but what are we noticing about listening to each other because at the very beginning that was the first thing that she identified is that they don't listen to each other she says it's a difference in how they talk to each other and she used to get so mad.

36:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And he says he used to be so rejected, but now she'd be like, I understand your points are valid, so okay, they're going in the right direction. [SPEAKER_01]: He says like he listened and he hears her about the politics stuff, but now he just got out. [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't watch the news, he doesn't watch any of that, so they don't fight.

36:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, is that smart? [SPEAKER_01]: So you want to be less informed, you know what, that's smart, because your information is biased anyways. [SPEAKER_01]: Orna says like, okay, I want to revisit this later, but Marjorie's like, yeah, I know you said you want to revisit this, but you know, whatever I tell them anything political, he'll automatically doesn't matter what I say, he'll automatically have the opposite reaction.

37:17 [SPEAKER_01]: He says, well, when she says something political, I just know that I see it as the seed and just like that she just has hate for Trump and his administration like well. [SPEAKER_01]: more sense. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not the main thing that matters to her because owner is like, what's the main thing that matters to you?

37:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's just the hate that comes to the administration. [SPEAKER_01]: And in order to tell Jason that you know you don't have to agree with her, but why don't you try to understand where she's coming from, and it's like, yeah, I try, but she's like, yeah, you have to try, but you have to separate your agenda when you listen to her, and she says that what matters to her is that the actions of the administration are hurting the American people and we're basically fighting each other.

38:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Orner is like, okay, Jason, she's talking and you're already shaking your head and he's like, yeah, because she's full of shit. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, oh my god, or not, we're softer. [SPEAKER_01]: When were you seeing we don't see it because We trust each other, they just want to fight each other and he's like, it's all Trump derangedments syndrome.

38:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what? [SPEAKER_01]: That is not real. [SPEAKER_01]: Shut up. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, when you gotta try harder, I'm not sure how you think things are better. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I don't, I don't see it. [SPEAKER_01]: Orna says, okay, this tells me we haven't gotten very far, you know, I work.

38:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So she's like, so let's try again. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I reminded, like we've been so caught up in Marjorie, you know, and all the stuff that I'm like, maybe this is why her kids don't like him. [SPEAKER_01]: And if that's the case, it's hard to argue that.

38:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I agree, but I don't think it's the only thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's called it, it'll color everything, because if you're sure you're seeing other stupid things, so everything else he says is like, please don't talk to me, you're, you know. [SPEAKER_01]: So for sure.

39:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So she says, I am scared of what is happening because I see it and we are not the ones who are American citizens being detained by eyes and it keeps me up at night and it breaks my heart. [SPEAKER_01]: He does repeat, you know, what she said on our says, okay, you say yours and he's like, yeah, I'm still happy I voted for Trump and I'm still hopeful that things are going to get better.

39:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we're headed in the right direction in some areas and we're taking steps back in some way. [SPEAKER_01]: I have hope. [SPEAKER_01]: I have hope. [SPEAKER_01]: I have hope. [SPEAKER_01]: He says it multiple times. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just like, fuck this guy. [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sorry.

40:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I just listen, you can support what you want to, but just because you have hope doesn't mean like there is hope for everyone because she's giving a very specific example that I feel like he's not even like [SPEAKER_01]: addressing, because she says, um, March is like maybe, you know, Orna tells her to talk about something that's happening, not exactly the administration, just what's happening.

40:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, sorry, that was Marjorie's suggestion. [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, okay, I'm not going to talk about the administration. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to talk about specific things that are happening. [SPEAKER_01]: And he says, like, yeah, I hear you about being detained, being detained is horrific, because I have been detained.

40:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll say, like, if they're in the wrong, then it's totally wrong. [SPEAKER_01]: How are you equating that with that? [SPEAKER_01]: This is like, what is a good example? [SPEAKER_01]: You know how for sure, the way the administration does not treat an immigrant who's coming from maybe the continent of Africa or coming from a South American state or the Middle East to an immigrant coming from [SPEAKER_01]: We're pick one, the Netherlands.

41:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the same thing. [SPEAKER_01]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: So why are you comparing it to people who are being caged, who are being left to die? [SPEAKER_01]: Again, it's horrific for you to be detained on justly. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yes, it is a thing, but don't do that. [SPEAKER_01]: But I too have been to, then let's focus.

41:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's focus on what's been you're here in the couch with me now. [SPEAKER_01]: Some of these people don't even get to come out and some of them die. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the, and it's that whole like white privilege thing when people are like I'm not privileged because I'm white I'm poor.

41:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like that's not worth it. [SPEAKER_00]: And you've got to some people have to like put themselves in the situation in order to justify horrendous things happening. [SPEAKER_00]: Like you have to say, [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, being detained sucks. [SPEAKER_00]: I've been detained, but that's not what that means.

42:11 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not you did something wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: That's why you were detained. [SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about people that have done nothing wrong and are being removed from their families and being treated poorly. [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's not the same thing, but in order to justify these horrendous things happening, they have to put themselves in that spot and go, no, no.

42:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Bad things happen to me too. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not the same thing. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why this is so frustrating, getting through to people that don't understand this, it's like, just because something bad happened to you and you survived it or you somehow got out of it, it's not the same situation as what's happening to other people.

42:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And until you can separate yourself and use your human part of your side and use your empathy and scan back, [SPEAKER_00]: you're not going to see that and it takes so much and it's so much effort and energy and I applaud Marjorie for being like, okay, if you think my hate for this person is the reason why I'm frustrated, let's step back and we'll take that out.

43:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me talk about specific things and I think he was able to relate to it a little bit, but then you have to justify, oh f, I'm totally wrong about this. [SPEAKER_00]: So I have to just sit on hope that things are going to get better. [SPEAKER_00]: They're not going to get better on [SPEAKER_00]: with people like you, Jason, just sitting back waiting for things to get better.

43:31 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not going to get good. [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to get a thousand times worse unless you do something. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even think [SPEAKER_01]: he understood because he used, he don't want people to apologize and they're like, I'm sorry, if I hurt you, he said, if this person really is innocent, like, come on, what is the, this is a well actually, so no, no, no, no, no, no, then I don't know.

43:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So Marjorie's like, okay, I hear him, I see him, but at the back of my mind, I'm just like, will he ever admit that he shouldn't have voted that way? [SPEAKER_01]: And owner is like, I think the real question you're asking [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like ding ding, and that's where it ended.

44:10 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it. [SPEAKER_01]: I just, if it keeps her up at night, it gives her that much anxiety. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how she's able to lay with him. [SPEAKER_01]: And that is where the further discussion comes in where Marjorie is, [SPEAKER_01]: It's not virtually signaling, but it's like, oh, I worry, I do it at the end of the day, you're laying with someone who drastically does not share the same sentiment as you do.

44:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So how much of an ally are you? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And trust us, if it's ornament headbars, it's [SPEAKER_00]: episode and that's it it's like I can't trust you if this is how you feel about people that may or may not look like me how do you feel about people that do look like me and I don't how do I trust that and that's scary and yeah to your point how do I lay with you when you're actively supporting things that are against me the person that you say you love it's against me it's against your daughter.

45:16 [SPEAKER_00]: It's against people that you know and love. [SPEAKER_00]: And you're still like, I hope it gets better. [SPEAKER_00]: That's scary. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, they saved the best for last with Dreia and Nessa. [SPEAKER_01]: We see the peer advisory talking about there's something painful about a pattern and they're asking, and asking Dreia to differentiate, [SPEAKER_01]: is asking her to do something that she cannot do.

45:45 [SPEAKER_01]: That maybe they're asking her something to do that she cannot do. [SPEAKER_01]: And we're back in therapy. [SPEAKER_01]: They walk in, they sit down, Nessa, Astrea, are you okay? [SPEAKER_01]: And she goes, yeah, I'm okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Nessa feels, they go into therapy. [SPEAKER_01]: And Nessa's like, I feel like Dre is in the mood, and I'm trying to balance what it is, but I'm also curious to know what it is that's putting her in the mood.

46:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And on Astrea, what's going on, and Dre says, [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just trying to move on as gracefully as I can. [SPEAKER_01]: That the more she mourns the relationship, the easier it will be to transition to co-parenting. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, good on you, you know, Drea, because she does deserve to be fully loved and not put down by her partner.

46:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Orna says that she has changed and Drea is like, yep, I have changed. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I have. [SPEAKER_01]: So Nessa says the friend in her is proud of her. [SPEAKER_01]: but hoping she's not saying that for her, her being or not, and the relationship is like, damn, I'm willing to throw away someone who worships the ground I walk on, and that's kind of scary.

46:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of feel like I was annoyed by who would mess up with this because you're practically saying, sure. [SPEAKER_01]: So you say, but we know you have a pattern. [SPEAKER_01]: She's kind of hoping and relying [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was annoyed with Nessa when they walked into the room because clearly, when they were out in the lobby, like there was clearly something wrong with Dre.

47:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, are you okay? [SPEAKER_00]: And Dre is like, uh-huh. [SPEAKER_00]: If you look at her, she's not okay. [SPEAKER_00]: But Nessa goes, all right, and goes back to her phone. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you're so checked out of this. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, uh, and finally Dre is like, all right, I'm meeting you where you are.

47:35 [SPEAKER_00]: You're checked out. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to check out too, and now she seems offended, and she seems like, oh, why am I throwing this away? [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not a waste and done it enough. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I can't be on your side here. [SPEAKER_00]: You're getting what you want.

47:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So shut up. [SPEAKER_01]: Andrea does say she like, NASA doesn't think like I have the capacity to separate myself from this union. [SPEAKER_01]: But I think I can like you go girl. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was so happy. [SPEAKER_01]: Necesses says, again, Necesses like, well, if it is true, then I'm happy for her.

48:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what is with the passive aggressive statement, right? [SPEAKER_01]: You're so neat to this woman. [SPEAKER_01]: And Arnold says, [SPEAKER_01]: No you, like, you know, what are you thinking? [SPEAKER_01]: And Dre is still moving. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's as hair to the side. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, maybe this is right.

48:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe she knows more than we know. [SPEAKER_01]: And she says like, there's a change in her life. [SPEAKER_01]: And she has to figure it out. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's scary, but it's exciting. [SPEAKER_01]: And then she starts crying. [SPEAKER_01]: She says she would love to feel comfortable in this situation, but she doesn't.

48:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And on top of her big and big beauty, she has to feel responsible for uprooting Jay as life and she's the bad guy. [SPEAKER_01]: Her voice is raised at this point. [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, you know, raising octave and not like yelling but it's raised. [SPEAKER_01]: And like it's so confusing for her and it doesn't feel good.

49:01 [SPEAKER_01]: But it does feel good at the same time and I'm like, Nessa. [SPEAKER_01]: Please, baby, stop, like figure out what the fuck you feel and let's use that point of reference and figure out something. [SPEAKER_01]: This is so unfair to do to Drea. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: He's more in the relationship.

49:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't come here with, I feel bad, and then I'm moving her this, but it doesn't feel good. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you know what, it does feel good, but I just want pick a lane. [SPEAKER_00]: You can't, you can't have it both ways. [SPEAKER_00]: You can't, you're not going to come out of this clean.

49:30 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to come out of this feeling like I did the right thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you're going to do this, do this and go into therapy was one way to make sure that Dre was going to come out of this whole, but you're not responsible for making her feel whole. [SPEAKER_00]: Focus on yourself.

49:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is what you wanted. [SPEAKER_00]: You wanted what she said. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't ask for any of this. [SPEAKER_00]: I said, what you absolutely asked for this every week. [SPEAKER_00]: So you have what you want. [SPEAKER_00]: Stop making Dreia care for you. [SPEAKER_00]: You care for you.

50:01 [SPEAKER_00]: You deal with what you've created. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's the same thing. [SPEAKER_01]: When they asked her, when you have your own life, what would you do? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I don't know yet. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I don't know yet. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, figure it out. [SPEAKER_01]: Because it has to mean me.

50:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Because in some, I don't know if Dreha feels that way, but he has to mean something. [SPEAKER_01]: Like maybe Dreha's like, you know what? [SPEAKER_01]: If she found her happiness and she found which is actually looking for, then it was worth all of this. [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're still going out there, you're a single, you're a prudent her life.

50:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And you still don't know what's going on. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh gosh, that's a mess. [SPEAKER_01]: on this. [SPEAKER_01]: So, um, Andrea says, um, because owner, uh, Dre does that make sense to you and she goes, yeah, I make sense to to her and I'm like, well, I'm glad it does to you. [SPEAKER_01]: And she says it's something about being the villain in the savior for Nessa.

50:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And Nessa was like, yeah, she's spot on with that. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, he goes hand in hand. [SPEAKER_01]: And Dre says she doesn't think that she's the villain. [SPEAKER_01]: They're just two people who have evolved. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, don't try to make your feel better, but I mean, I guess, and that and wasn't that like a call back to their first episode where Didn't necessarily say something about Drea not evolving and Drea was like, I don't think I like that word and so for me that again at the end, I was like, yes, take your power back girl.

51:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, at least thank God that Yes, I wasn't like, well, I would say she's really evolved because Yeah, so I mean, we just see them all doing different things. [SPEAKER_01]: That's all the couples. [SPEAKER_01]: We see Jason at the gym. [SPEAKER_01]: Who else did we see? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we see Shay at home.

51:35 [SPEAKER_01]: We see Clinton just taking a walk. [SPEAKER_01]: We see March just walking the dogs and we see Sienna reading a book. [SPEAKER_01]: We see Chris with his daughter and, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: Just that just keeps you stuff and then is this where we saw Jason and Marjorie? [SPEAKER_00]: I can't call her Marjorie.

51:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Jason and Marjorie at the trampoline park with her kid. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they were jumping on the trampoline and I was like, oh look at Jason, you little gymnast, you're limber. [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that was before their segment or the earlier. [SPEAKER_01]: That was TV.

52:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, maybe it was. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's it. [SPEAKER_01]: That's it for the episode. [SPEAKER_01]: And then all things come to close next episode and we'll be talking about the finale. [SPEAKER_01]: But before we go, Jen, can you share with people where they can find you?

52:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you can find me and my husband are old but tra-trapsing around the world right now. [SPEAKER_00]: We're in Bali and so you can follow our adventures on J and S dot adventures on Instagram and YouTube. [SPEAKER_01]: Nice. [SPEAKER_01]: You know what if I meet guys? [SPEAKER_01]: It is 10 talks on all of our social.

52:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Please give me a five star rating. [SPEAKER_01]: I know it could be a pain, but it really helps the podcast on Apple podcast and Spotify. [SPEAKER_01]: Say subscribe so you don't miss out on any new episodes until next time guys. [SPEAKER_01]: Bye. [UNKNOWN]: Painful.