MAFS Catch Up: Chatting with Michelle from S18 (Chicago)

0:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, everybody. [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to another episode of Altacol, I am your host, Tane, with an episode of Mashed Chats. [SPEAKER_01]: It's been a minute since we had one today's guest, whether you love her direct honesty, or found yourself yelling at your TV screen. [SPEAKER_01]: My guest today was for better or worse and unforgettable bride during her season.

0:29 [SPEAKER_01]: We have all had a lot to say, myself included, but since her season just hit Netflix, I have to have her on just to chat about her time in the show and let us know her side of the story. [SPEAKER_01]: And my guest today is Michelle from season 18 of Married Up her site. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi Michelle!

0:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, thanks for having me on. [SPEAKER_01]: I think we shall see. [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, it'll be good. [SPEAKER_01]: You'll be good. [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Altagall. [SPEAKER_01]: This is your first time on the show. [SPEAKER_01]: My first question that I ask everyone is how are you?

0:59 [SPEAKER_01]: How have you been since the last time we saw you on TV? [SPEAKER_01]: What have we missed catch us up in everything? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all is well, it feels like it's been a long time since all this went down. [SPEAKER_00]: But again, the Netflix is bringing everything back up. [SPEAKER_00]: So just the memory lane is resurfacing through all of this stuff.

1:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all is well, like I'm doing really well. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trained for a marathon, so that's been kind of overheating my current life. [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, everything's good. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for asking. [SPEAKER_01]: That's good. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you mentioned when you see some dropped on Netflix, that you're getting some new attention, good or bad from the for people seeing it for the first time.

1:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, what is that like, relieving something that was so long ago? [SPEAKER_01]: How long ago has it been two years? [SPEAKER_00]: So it's been 30 years and I got married three years ago. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay, what is that like? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's interesting too because I was very polarizing on the show.

2:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Like some people really fight for me and other people really do not like me. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's just really interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the DMs are that way too in the comments. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's either people fighting for me, like in the comments, people who are like, [SPEAKER_00]: you're such a bitch, you know, and so it's was like really interesting to and then you know, some people say things that it's totally different from what I remember, but I haven't watched the show since it dropped on Lifetime.

2:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so if I say that, it's also, it's the, I'm trying to remember things too. [SPEAKER_00]: It's also really interesting because sometimes I even question my own reality. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh, right. [SPEAKER_01]: Was my childhood like that? [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, no, I actually looked at it.

2:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I mean that's fair even for me. [SPEAKER_01]: I watched it whenever it aired I guess two years ago after you guys filmed and it's like trying to remember I didn't watch a bunch of stuff over and you're like oh my god And that's why I said we've all had a lot to say because we can only go by what we see right and we also know it's reality TV So that's why I'm excited to have you on here, and I'm not gonna lie me show [SPEAKER_01]: I was surprised that you said yes.

3:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I was just like, so people are like, what is math? [SPEAKER_01]: I've never done that. [SPEAKER_01]: I never want to remember that again in my life. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what made you say yes? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what makes you comfortable to talk about that time? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think, um, I didn't have like I don't regret going on the show, um, I think that surprises people.

3:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't think it turned out how I wanted it to turn out. [SPEAKER_00]: I also like it was, [SPEAKER_00]: a story and time. [SPEAKER_00]: It was a learning experience. [SPEAKER_00]: I made really good friends from that show. [SPEAKER_00]: And even sometimes I get annoyed with production.

3:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually liked everybody and production as well. [SPEAKER_00]: The experience didn't turn out in my mind, I thought, like I was going to be like the one couple who made it. [SPEAKER_00]: So it was a little naive. [SPEAKER_00]: But like I don't regret doing the show. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I also don't mind talking about it because it is a part of my life.

4:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I think it's better to just explain what happened in my side of the story than to let people come to say [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Are you? [SPEAKER_01]: Do you ever look up stuff online? [SPEAKER_01]: Do you go and read it and be like, yeah, that's not true.

4:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, I do all the time, but I think when it was, um, airing on lifetime, I definitely did. [SPEAKER_00]: And but you get it's so addictive too to do that. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I do sometimes. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I haven't in a long time, but I probably should Netflix.

4:45 [SPEAKER_00]: That's [SPEAKER_01]: Kudos to you. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just, you know, I always give Kudos to people who first go and reality TV, but then to look up comments, I don't know how you guys do it and I will survive that. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so it almost feels like we have to discuss your match journey in two parts.

5:04 [SPEAKER_01]: First half is everything pre scandal where that's where the people don't really care for you where it was like what is up with that behavior you are in the nicest to David and you get a lot of black for that and some may have called you the villain of the season but again that's why I'm excited to chat with you to see your perspective and then we're gonna walk through pretext the text and then post text but do you think the narrative [SPEAKER_01]: inaccurate like what about it was I guess wrong I don't know what the word is but it's not wasn't a representation of you even if it was at that time of your life I guess what I think what was shown of me was a representation I just think that like I wasn't like I never smiled and four weeks you know so I think like what they showed was a representation of like what they showed

6:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but it wasn't like I didn't have any fun. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I was struggling. [SPEAKER_00]: I won't deny that. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't care for the match I got. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I think, you know, like it looks like all like I was angry and like frowny. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't leave the honeymoon hotel room.

6:20 [SPEAKER_00]: couldn't give past a living situation with some of that stuff like is true but that wasn't like the only thing we talked about but it just happened to be like the only thing they showed you know it's like yeah it makes it look like that was all I did yeah like I remember that stuff I won't deny that but it just like that would be the only thing I did okay well I have a listener question which we'll get to at the end that asked something in that vein [SPEAKER_01]: and I did watch the matchmaking special and honestly it was like two different people.

6:49 [SPEAKER_01]: You're a different person in the matchmaking special and when you were on the show. [SPEAKER_01]: So again, that makes sense when you said you were struggling. [SPEAKER_01]: So let's take you back to the beginning. [SPEAKER_01]: Knowing what we were told about your personality and you also said in the matchmaking special that you are guarded.

7:07 [SPEAKER_01]: It seemed like this was outside your comfort zone. [SPEAKER_01]: I am very vocal, I'm always like garden people, walls up, there's no no words, don't put them on maps. [SPEAKER_01]: What made you take this big leap to find love on a TV show? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I kind of took it as like a sign.

7:27 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, someone slid into my DMs asking about like what I'd be interested to go on the show. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I kind of like jokingly screenshot that and sent that to my friends. [SPEAKER_00]: Be like, should I? [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, yes, you know, and so I kind of like did it just as a joke to see.

7:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I feel like, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: couple calls, Lynn was like, well, I'm married. [SPEAKER_00]: But no, I think that I just took that as like a sign. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I was at a point in my, like a point in my life where I really wanted to date. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I was 37 or 38 when they started the process.

7:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was, it was like timing felt right. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I felt you such like a good deal. [SPEAKER_00]: And again, like I was pretty naive. [SPEAKER_00]: They were like, we found um, we found your soulmate. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh my god. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I know you said you were single for six years at the time.

8:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So I hadn't been in like a serious, serious relationship in six years. [SPEAKER_00]: I definitely had like date. [SPEAKER_00]: I've been dating throughout those six years. [SPEAKER_00]: It was like I was like single single. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it just wasn't like I hadn't introduced anyone to my family.

8:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: there's right definitely it had been dating. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay so I do have a question because I have this argument with a bunch of like other podcasts and people are talking about the show. [SPEAKER_01]: At what point do you stop dating? [SPEAKER_01]: Because when you know you've applied for the show, so I'm always like, I'm strict.

8:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just like, the minute you apply for the show, stop dating, any kind of dating at all. [SPEAKER_01]: And some are like, maybe when you get the first call back, like, for you, what was it for you? [SPEAKER_01]: When did you stop dating? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it was like, when it started feeling that I actually could get chosen to be on the show.

9:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I had pretty focused solely on, [SPEAKER_00]: like dating the show almost, you know what I mean and so around, but I think like, you know, it's like a pretty, you know, it's like nine months before you actually, I think it was like, maybe like a, I don't know, it was a long time. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, okay, why to win, you actually start like getting, [SPEAKER_00]: calls and like green like oh shit like this could happen you feel like when it felt more serious to me so I was like all right I can really then okay okay that makes sense okay nine months is a long time so maybe I can't just read it on that okay when [SPEAKER_01]: When you said, you were okay, going back to Dr. Pia, coming to visit you, I think at the point there, Eddie knew it was going to be David and we were putting Billers out and they're like, oh, if he makes it a little less and you seem flexible, do you agree?

9:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, obviously, you are not putting your foot down, but what were you thinking? [SPEAKER_01]: Because they were explicit, like, they may make it a little less and their career is not quite there. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think she did mention he lived [SPEAKER_01]: It's been so long I can't remember, but I think she said that you were like, okay, as long as that's not the plan to be there, will you generally okay?

10:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's back at that and don't have the same like I feel like you could tell I was not okay with that like because I was like wait they live at home like you know and then she kind of seems like yeah but there's like there's a plan they're seeing up and I was like okay like maybe it's like a couple months they've been there you know like in my mind I took it as [SPEAKER_00]: Like they had a lot of money saved and like could buy a home within a very short amount of time.

10:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's how I took it to. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then I also think that in other interviews. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I remember one where Pastor Carl was like, what if they have like, you know, like, they make less money than you? [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh, God, I would hate that because like, I don't know, I make like enough money to like, you know what I mean?

11:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, I'm a bugling, um, but like, so I think that just like, [SPEAKER_00]: they showed when I was being more flexible to do I regret that? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because I clearly was not flexible on those things. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I have to ask. [SPEAKER_01]: I think this was also one of the most asked questions when they asked what you wanted.

11:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And you said, I want a light skin black man. [SPEAKER_01]: You want to say it? [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, go ahead. [SPEAKER_00]: I do regret saying that, but again, I think it was that wasn't the only thing, the only type of person who I asked for. [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of was like, you know, I don't really have a physical type, like I've dated everyone truly.

11:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And so they're like, yeah, well, you need to be more specific, like, what are [SPEAKER_00]: like describe people that you've dated in the past and I did describe someone like people I've dated in the past and that's what came out and so it did I specifically asked for like David exactly what he mean like the way they look yeah but that's the only thing like that's I've dated quite guys I've dated black guys and so I think that they um [SPEAKER_00]: I just didn't, I said that, I can't deny that, but you have to show that I was more like, I don't have a physical type, like I've dated a lot of people like a different looks and whatnot, but it kind of fit more of the narrative for David to work.

12:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so it was kind of, you know, where you see it was spliced. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay, because as a viewer, I'm just like so what's wrong with dark skin black man, too? [SPEAKER_00]: Like you mean if it's black man, but okay, so that was a question but for that so I definitely regret that Yeah, because it may not seem I wanted just one type of person and that wasn't the case.

12:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay, so but you can see why you were matched with David on paper because [SPEAKER_00]: Um, um, I think some things I said that I liked matched him. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll get there. [SPEAKER_01]: But I'll ask more questions in that area.

13:15 [SPEAKER_01]: But um, when you are at the eyebrow place, I think that's when they told you that you were going to be matched. [SPEAKER_01]: What did you think you were doing then? [SPEAKER_01]: Because I mean, you didn't randomly just go to your eyebrows and pass a call. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, please, like, um, did you actually get your eyebrows like what was the whole set up or what did you think was happening there?

13:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think they played as like another interview, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but I also definitely thought. [SPEAKER_00]: I went in there assuming like something like someone was going to pop out of the curb like you're on the show like I think I'm not, but they make it seem like it's just like another interview before you find out.

13:56 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I thought I was doing. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: So let's go to the wedding. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think you have said that you were kept, was it after the wedding or before the wedding, where you had to wait a long time? [SPEAKER_01]: Was that after the wedding?

14:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, after the wedding? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, because on the internet, David and I were the first wedding to be filmed. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think the last wedding shown on TV. [SPEAKER_00]: So is, so we had the quarantine for like a week. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to say, well, they filmed the other, the other weddings.

14:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, David walks down the aisle and your first thought is what? [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I actually thought he looked like like a cute, normal guy. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he was probably someone who like I would have like done a double take on the street but I like first impression, I didn't think.

14:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I was like, okay, let's get this right. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's also that day you really like talk yourself up. [SPEAKER_00]: Like you're doing this, like get down the aisle. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think you're like running on adrenaline almost. [SPEAKER_00]: But I didn't have like a bad first impression, like before we had any conversations.

15:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's interesting because, I mean, my next question I was like, did you, did you, did you want to say no at the altar? [SPEAKER_01]: And if you did, did you feel like you could? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I didn't want to say no at the altar. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what I thought, but I also, like, don't know exactly what I thought, like, who would be at the other end of the aisle?

15:25 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I, I didn't feel any sort of way in those, in that first walk down. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you aren't like disappointed or anything. [SPEAKER_01]: You hadn't started yet. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, um, did you have like a family support? [SPEAKER_01]: Was it just friends at that time? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I had lots of, I think all of my sisters, my mom and dad were at the wedding and then I had some friends there as well So I had lots of family and friends supporting me.

15:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I remember your friends were also topic at the town because you always had someone who was doing something and were like, She was a lot of friends But at the time we didn't know if there were actual friends or there just people there were like, oh my god, but yes Okay [SPEAKER_00]: Friends with my eyebrow girl, like we've been friends like 13 years, looks she does do eyebrows.

16:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying my style is my best friend from college, but she also happens to see you. [SPEAKER_00]: So those are real plans. [SPEAKER_01]: You're very connected and hooked up in that regard. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So you guys have what I like to call the champagne chats, which is after you say your [SPEAKER_01]: And he dropped the bomb about living with his parents about smoking cigarettes and you're like, oh my gosh, crazy.

16:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Like that reaction was funny. [SPEAKER_01]: But what was it about that truly major spiral? [SPEAKER_01]: To the point where to the wedding, you were crying and you just cut it. [SPEAKER_01]: get over that. [SPEAKER_01]: Like was there something else who were picking up on or truly at that time living with his parents was the worst thing?

16:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I will say I'm surprised it wasn't even the smoking that they focused on. [SPEAKER_01]: It was more the living with the parents. [SPEAKER_01]: What was your mind and your process at that time? [SPEAKER_00]: I think I got. [SPEAKER_00]: I think what you know was really quickly after. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean I don't think we were even married two minutes and he was like I live at home.

17:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I saw cigarettes, and I think he even mentioned he had the tattoo, actually, I mean that was later, he told me in the honeymoon, so he had four plans at the wedding that he had a tattoo of his ex, so I knew that he had the wedding, and so I think, um, [SPEAKER_00]: I just think I like what, I don't know why that I should have after the conversation with Dr. Pia.

17:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I just like didn't imagine at our age that I would even be a thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think it was just like shock because, you know, we were in our 30s. [SPEAKER_00]: And I just didn't expect that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: What just understandable, right?

17:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I had a lot of arguments about this situation. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, you don't want to start a marriage. [SPEAKER_01]: We've had a contestant, well, a participant in Matthew, who didn't have his own home. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, why do you want to get married or get an apartment or get an Airbnb at least before you do that?

18:14 [SPEAKER_01]: But what they sold us or told us was that he was saving money and you don't know what is true or not at this point. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was more, didn't want to give him a chance to find out. [SPEAKER_01]: It was just you heard that and you just blacked out, I guess. [SPEAKER_01]: And they say, I'm not.

18:32 [SPEAKER_00]: for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just I think I was just like shocked because that never crossed my mind that that would be like something that I would deal with at like that age. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you prefer that he told you upfront? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what things have been different if you waited?

18:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Because when is a good time to share that, I guess? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't, someone I've been asked that before. [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if my opinion would have changed. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I probably, I would have preferred to get to know.

19:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Because he is like a very fun guy. [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe it would have been different because I would have gotten to know him more. [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, I mean, he told me so fast. [SPEAKER_01]: I did was like, what, you know, yeah, we don't know it, but is it usually your personality like besides the house thing like do you fix it on something and then you're just pulling that thread and you can't you know get out of that because that's what he looked like was like you just get out of that.

19:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes and no, I think um [SPEAKER_00]: I think like if I like someone you like or like I think this is a kind of in general like when you like someone you like look past things because like you like them so much but I think I didn't have an opportunity to get to know David because it happened so fast yeah that that was like one thing I like I did fixate on but I don't think like I fixate on things okay all the time but I do I have [SPEAKER_00]: Like if it's like it's like, oh, this person's okay and like, but then like all these things happen that I'm like little things I'm like, oh, at that to the list at that to us, you know what I mean, just like to make my narrative work that I don't like them, you know what I mean, yeah, yeah, sometimes yeah, so on the scale of one to ten before he dropped all the bombs on you, what would you say, what level you're attracted to him and his scale of one to ten.

20:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm so surprised. [SPEAKER_01]: I really thought it was a one. [SPEAKER_01]: I really thought I really thought you saw this man. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, no, no, no, no, no, give me out of here. [SPEAKER_01]: So I think he's really, I think like, even like, [SPEAKER_00]: you know it's it's hard to it's been so long but like it's hard to um i think like in the thick of it i was having a hard time like even giving him compliments but now that's so much time i'm like we did have fun times you know like i do he's like a fun guy and like go out and have a drink with um okay [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I just don't think we had a long common.

21:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I definitely don't think he's like an unattractive person. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I more unattracted the more we got to know each other. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so what was the story behind the quarantine and then you didn't see each other for how long was it? [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was like a five days maybe.

21:24 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a long time. [SPEAKER_01]: And what were you doing in that five days? [SPEAKER_01]: What were you thinking about? [SPEAKER_01]: How are you trying to distract yourself? [SPEAKER_00]: for your inner hotel room by yourself. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that I was definitely giving like the what I was like, you know, the producers were calling me.

21:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like being short. [SPEAKER_00]: I was upset. [SPEAKER_00]: I I just like didn't think this is the relationship I imagined just based off the little I knew and so I did. [SPEAKER_00]: I sat in that room and I was I was pissed. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I didn't want to go on the honeymoon.

22:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to quit. [SPEAKER_00]: I think at one point they like sent people to my room to check on me because they were like scared that I was going to leave. [SPEAKER_01]: Did you at any point try to be like okay Michelle we can do this let's just give him a chance I know there's this parents but maybe he'll move out but let's just see let's put this aside and see what happens Did you at any point [SPEAKER_00]: I think I did that every single day of film like I'm not getting me like every day I'd wake up and you got the sprawl like you can do hard things I remember I wouldn't help producers I'm like I can do it like because I didn't think he was a bad guy and so I can't meet I can be friends with him like I you know what I mean like I can still enjoy the experience like be cool and like

22:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's always set me up. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think what you said was every day I wake up and I say I'm not going to be a pill I think bus account was like a pill and to like well you don't but okay, we get to the honeymoon And I will say this was the worst of it all and it just seemed that you were mad at him for existing It was like why are you positive?

23:11 [SPEAKER_01]: You are in a fairytale. [SPEAKER_01]: You are dilute [SPEAKER_01]: their delusional get away from me or smothering everything he said was the wrong thing. [SPEAKER_01]: What where were you at this point? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think, you know, we had dinners that we did that wasn't aired where we got deep and had lots of conversations.

23:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember seeing it those dinners and it felt like I was like leading a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I was asking all the questions I remember this is like a big thing because I did look really bad when this aired. [SPEAKER_00]: But I remember like I had to have like asked him so many questions.

23:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And we got in like really deep family stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: And then, at the end of that, I was like, is there anything you would like to know about me? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, do you wanna ask me anything? [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, no, I don't think so. [SPEAKER_00]: And that, like, annoyed me and then the next day is when he came in.

23:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, I have a question for you. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh, you have questions? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, yeah, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Some of that happened a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, because they basically, I think the honeymoon, I was only shown in the room pouting and they're like, you know, filmed like every mill, milled out about together.

24:20 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I just felt like I, like we would have these like tough conversations and then like the next day like the camera crews would come up and he's like, oh, I gosh, I really like you. [SPEAKER_00]: You're great. [SPEAKER_00]: I love your host. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, why we, we were just yelling.

24:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it was like confusing to me. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, how are you so positive on like, [SPEAKER_00]: This doesn't feel like it's working. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay, that makes sense. [SPEAKER_01]: Cause it's seen in particular, it was that scene you just mentioned. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, do you want to go get something to eat?

24:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to walk around? [SPEAKER_01]: Meet me at the pool and you're like, [SPEAKER_01]: We know we were not talking about anything and I was like, you know, asking questions. [SPEAKER_01]: So why are you mad, but okay, if you did. [SPEAKER_01]: And so basically like you thought he was one person off camera and another on camera kind of, I don't know if I thought he was too different.

25:08 [SPEAKER_00]: The other after the honeymoon, you know, he switched work schedules and so we didn't [SPEAKER_00]: Like during the week, we didn't see each other a lot because we had conflicting work schedules. [SPEAKER_00]: And so we did a lot of filming and hanging out basically from the moment we woke up on the weekends until the moment we had to fit in a lot because we had conflicting schedules.

25:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't necessarily know if I thought he was like two different people, but we also really only [SPEAKER_00]: filmed and hung out on the weekends because during the week we just didn't you know he I think he worked like two to eleven p.m. and i'm like a nine to five okay so like he came home from work i'd be sleeping like when i get up and go to work he was sleeping so we just kind of had conflicting schedules [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that was something I was going to ask because during the season, I was mad that they cast someone with that work schedule because I'm like, what time were you mad about that to or were you just already far gone and that was just another thing to add to the list.

26:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think in the moment I was relieved because like I wasn't feeling the connection, but like in his defense, I think when they. [SPEAKER_00]: cast him. [SPEAKER_00]: He had, like, I think he worked first shift. [SPEAKER_00]: And so our schedules would have been more aligned. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that they have been after they already cast him.

26:32 [SPEAKER_00]: That has worked changed. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: That makes sense. [SPEAKER_01]: Did you stay in the apartment that they got you? [SPEAKER_01]: Did you stay in your place? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I stayed in the apartment. [SPEAKER_00]: I was in the majority of the time.

26:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I worked hybrid then. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think, like, I would work from my own apartment. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, if I wasn't working in my office, [SPEAKER_00]: Sundays and Mondays, maybe I would sleep sometimes at my own apartment, but again, he didn't, like, he worked Sunday nights and Monday nights.

27:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it wasn't like we were hanging out. [SPEAKER_00]: So, but I would say majority of the time I slept at the shared apartment. [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, everyone. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: How was filming for you? [SPEAKER_01]: Was it a brutal schedule or was it okay for you? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a lot, especially when you're working full time as well.

27:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a lot because I think like when we finally wrapped filming, like my body, like I was so sick, like the sickest, I've ever, I think it was just like stress, like, yeah, exhaustion, it was like, oh my god, like I like collapse, but yeah, it's a lot, because if you're basically working two full-time jobs.

27:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, is there like, [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I've been told, but I don't remember. [SPEAKER_01]: But is there some kind of compensation for being on masks? [SPEAKER_00]: Um, there is, yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not as fast as it makes fun. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: You just wanted to know that there is.

27:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, when you Working like my nine to five jobs. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, as a sidebar, I don't know what it is about. [SPEAKER_01]: I call it our little show a mask that doesn't propel people. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a reality showfade like even now it's on peacock and I still I'm not happy I thought it would be different and I don't think it did what I thought it would do and I don't know why but that's a whole conversation.

28:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, when you come back and you guys are talking with the experts again at this point. [SPEAKER_01]: Are you ready to quit because I think at this point everyone is like Why does she not quit? [SPEAKER_01]: She is putting this man through hell and the major headline was like basically like you were talking down to What was it was a worst of the honeymoon or worst when you come came back?

28:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think the honeymoon was [SPEAKER_00]: by far the worse and then I think it was like slowly, slowly and very small baby steps. [SPEAKER_00]: I got better. [SPEAKER_00]: We got the honeymoon was definitely the worst for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: I think why I didn't at least, I think, you know, I, on the honeymoon thread, I didn't like, you know, like I wanted to quit on the honeymoon.

29:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I think like what we're on the boat and I'm like crying that I believe. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, like I think, you know, the production's definitely pulling you aside and being like your stories not over, like you're not giving this if you're going to regret this if you leave and they kind of give examples of like other people who have left.

29:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm legally tied to this person, whether I stay or go. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm already in this contract. [SPEAKER_00]: I might as well stay and fulfill those obligations. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of what I did. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, I'm not taking away. [SPEAKER_01]: your choice to stay right like you decided to stay, but our producers as convincing as their portray to be like do they have this magic dust where they're able to be so convincing and talk people down the ledge or talk them into you know seeing things a different way.

30:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Are they as magical as we think they are? [SPEAKER_00]: I think you're also vulnerable and you think they know more because they've done this and they give you examples of like, well, so-and-so left on season, whatever, you know, she regretted it and you're like, okay, good point, so yeah, I think it's also [SPEAKER_00]: Like you just like live and breathe that fill me and when you're in that space and those, it's hard also to like I really like my producers like I could either then friends, I still consider them friends.

30:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's hard because like, oh, these are my friends like they have what's best for me, but then you're like, oh, yeah, it in pain because they're pretty very well it's hard to find and separate them as like working for the show and also like like your like support in front. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I think they have magic dust.

31:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I interviewed like a reality TV producer and she's like, I know everyone thinks they're like, muah-ha-ha, evil people, but it's not that way on the time. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they're not evil at all. [SPEAKER_00]: Like those are the people that make film me. [SPEAKER_00]: And like they're really fucking, yeah.

31:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's the people that I found with. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, now you come back home. [SPEAKER_01]: Did you find the expert helpful? [SPEAKER_00]: Um, no, I don't, not in the beginning. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't find them helpful because I almost felt like they were like also convincing me to stay and that we had all these things like David and I had all these things in common.

31:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So it kind of felt like they also were, it felt like they were like piling on on me, which like I knew I behaved badly on the honeymoon, like I was expecting some sort of like them to talk about that. [SPEAKER_00]: But it almost felt like David never did anything wrong in those sessions and it was, [SPEAKER_00]: basically me getting like scolded on us.

32:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess it has to be tough because at the point of filming, we don't know what's going to make error or not. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, do you, do you bring up stuff that happened off camera with them? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, can you bring that up and they bring that in discussion?

32:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: When they cancel you? [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, [SPEAKER_01]: So at some point with the experts, I think your childhood or your past came up. [SPEAKER_01]: And my deduction as a viewer was like, for some reason, David represented your past and it's like a past that you didn't want to go back to at least that's how it was portrayed to us.

32:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that inaccurate or because let me give more context? [SPEAKER_01]: So there was a lot of talk of lifestyle. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't you think that's the luck of doesn't mean my lifestyle doesn't have the lifestyle and the frustration was We don't even think you knew the man to even know what his lifestyle is.

33:09 [SPEAKER_01]: You've decided that he's not We treat that was a little unfair and then you told us a little bit about your past and you left and you worked hard to be where you are and it's like When you saw David where you seeing your past that you don't want to go back to and all you saw was You go back to struggling [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know if I necessarily like put that together.

33:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I think until maybe Dr. Pepper kind of put that together. [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't necessarily know if like our that clicked for me before someone else kind of said like, well, that's probably why I think I just like um in the beginning he would say things and like stuff just like didn't add up to me or [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, you would always like I asked him 4 million times why he lived at home and he would always just be like at the place it's a choice and I think I just needed him to explain more like, okay, like I've saved up this amount of money, you know, my plan is I'm buying in one year.

34:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I just felt like I always got like it's a choice it's a choice and I was like, okay, like I get it like that's your choice. [SPEAKER_00]: but like what is like the long term plan here and so it kind of felt like he wasn't very driven and I think that was a bit of a turn off. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so at this point, I think you met his friend.

34:29 [SPEAKER_01]: who was a little tough. [SPEAKER_01]: I think of me, you guys were, I thought it was hilarious that you guys had to talk in the bedroom. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, there's like, like, can they go somewhere else? [SPEAKER_01]: The lobby, I don't know, but that was just weird to me. [SPEAKER_01]: But he tried to explain that, you know, he's saving money, he has a down payment.

34:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, some argued again that you didn't have a house, also, at the time. [SPEAKER_01]: So what was the fixation on him having a house? [SPEAKER_01]: And he's saving money. [SPEAKER_01]: I think the friend said, you're renting, you're the one throwing money away. [SPEAKER_01]: to each their own, but what's there more that you are finding out about his finances that I made you unsure.

35:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there was an issue if he didn't own a home because I don't I didn't own a home you're to me. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it was more like he just didn't have any space of his own that like I don't feel rent or own. [SPEAKER_00]: I also think that's [SPEAKER_00]: I also was renting and saving money for a down payment because I rent.

35:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just like throwing away money, but it's like a significant amount into a brokerage account that's making money because I too would like to buy a home one day. [SPEAKER_00]: I just never got those facts. [SPEAKER_00]: I also think the friend, he bought his home a long time ago in the neighborhood they grew up in.

35:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And like it was, you know, I mean, like I was looking to buy something more downtown less like on the outskirts of the city. [SPEAKER_00]: And so it was like very different circumstances that he was trying to come to. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I feel like I think in that like I got what he was trying to do, but he was kind of just counting that I was renting and also saving money.

36:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, did you ever like flat out asked David? [SPEAKER_01]: I think you did, but like, hey, if we decide to move on with this marriage, are we moving out? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, do you have the finances for us to, even if it's not buy at this time to rent and what did he say? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we have lots of finance talks on camera, off camera.

36:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he always, you know, when I pressed him, he'd be like, yeah, I can, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: by too bad, too bad, and this neighborhood tomorrow. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay, then I was like, well, what do you have saved? [SPEAKER_00]: And then he gave the number, and I'm like, he doesn't know how much, like, that kind of home would cost.

36:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what it felt like to me. [SPEAKER_00]: So that always gave me pause because he would continually tell me that he was living at home, he was saving money. [SPEAKER_00]: And then when we went, like, how much do you make? [SPEAKER_00]: How much do you have saved? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think I had like 12 times the amount, you know what I mean?

37:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it was just like it was shocking to me because he had talked it up so much that he was saving money, and then when I came down to it, I didn't think it wasn't a amount that like a significant amount of money. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you could use to save. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, um, you went to go visit his special pad.

37:30 [SPEAKER_01]: You show your face, your face, your face, your face was not your friend, this whole season. [SPEAKER_01]: It was telling everything, she's like cool, cool, okay, this works, so you're big down down here to the laundry. [SPEAKER_00]: I was trying so hard not to just like shit on everything.

37:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what it means? [SPEAKER_00]: Like that was like one of those days I woke up. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like no matter what it looks like, you will be like you will behave today. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it wasn't the day. [SPEAKER_01]: So, then. [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess that just took you from a minus zero to a minus 24 year.

38:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Like just seeing his, I like, whoa, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: No, because it's also again like he had described it to me [SPEAKER_00]: a very separate from living in his parents' basement. [SPEAKER_00]: It was like there's separate entrance. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like my parents don't interact with my space at all.

38:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you could rent this out to other people. [SPEAKER_00]: And then when I got there, you know, there was a separate entrance, but it was just like the side door to the main house. [SPEAKER_00]: The laundry was in the unit. [SPEAKER_00]: So if a stranger lived here, like your parents couldn't do their laundry, you know?

38:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, again, well, someone could. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, no, they could not. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, we just didn't see Idaho. [SPEAKER_00]: I am like separate living was. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And I still stand by you could not rent that with the laundry, but I don't know.

38:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was not only, like I just like, [SPEAKER_00]: I never thought because people have let me know I live in a simple, basic, unit. [SPEAKER_00]: And so he compares, I live in a very similar place to you. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, okay, but you know, it's not. [SPEAKER_00]: Like it just wasn't like, I don't even mean like, we live in completely different parts of the city.

39:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I was in like a mid-size, like a apartment rental, you know. [SPEAKER_00]: So it just felt like, [SPEAKER_00]: He kept trying to sell me that the place was different than what I thought. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I got it and it's like the cake, the laundry, you know, the parent's basement.

39:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think there was one room that was filled with like the family, it was like the family storage unit. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so I was like, isn't your space? [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's, it to me it felt very much like his parent's basement. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, again, yeah, I know that it was there.

39:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I think all I kept thinking was like, if you got, if you continue the marriage, you wouldn't be in that space. [SPEAKER_01]: But I think for you, you're just like the fact that you're still in this mind space of being here, whether you're married or not at this age, was just a turn off.

40:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for you and I remember I would always say like maybe if I was 10 years younger this stuff wouldn't matter to me Like I said that so many times like if I was 10 years younger like this stuff probably wouldn't be a big issue to me But like I don't want to like build like I don't I don't know like I just like I felt like it was it felt very young to me Okay, now that you brought it up your apartment.

40:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I have to ask like when he said your apartment was like, it's all right [SPEAKER_00]: You look like, why she mad? [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was annoying, but I was like, I will hold my tongue until I see his place. [SPEAKER_00]: And then I was like, what the fuck, you know? [SPEAKER_00]: It's not the same.

40:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [UNKNOWN]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: Go back to the experts. [SPEAKER_01]: I think at some point, Dr. Pia made you watch your requirement list. [SPEAKER_01]: Am I making that up? [SPEAKER_01]: But you should just ask you a point out. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, what you asked for.

41:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember if she may do watch it or she said it. [SPEAKER_00]: I know, I know what you're talking about, but I think it was walking. [SPEAKER_01]: Watching it, did you feel cornered? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not gonna lie, Michelle. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, yeah, she can see that this is what she asked for, but at that point, how are you feeling when the experts?

41:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Because that's why I asked if they were helpful, because again, we're watching edited clips, but for you guys who are in it, and you seem to be going through it through the whole season, and they're supposed to be helping you, and they say, hey, watch what you said, and ask for, how did that make you feel?

41:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think they showed me the parts of things I said that fit the narrative. [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought I would really think I thought I would, they had this big aha moment. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but yeah, I didn't feel trapped, um, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: But I felt like they picked out stuff that I said that fit David, but like left out things that like definitely didn't fit David.

42:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you know, I've watched masks from season one and I remember season one with Monet. [SPEAKER_01]: She asked for certain things. [SPEAKER_01]: They gave her exactly that. [SPEAKER_01]: She said you went in a man to lead and all of that. [SPEAKER_01]: And when she got that, she's like, maybe I don't.

42:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe this is not what I want. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that's kind of similar for you? [SPEAKER_01]: Was there anything you maybe said you wanted? [SPEAKER_01]: That you're like, maybe I don't want that or it's just what you asked for just in coming the right package. [SPEAKER_00]: I think like I was like, oh, I like someone who's like edgy and like I think has to be confident like stuff.

42:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that yeah, maybe it was, I don't because I still like that stuff on his heart, but I just didn't like it on David, I suppose. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, what could it be if he just didn't live? [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think if he didn't live for this parent, so you would have worked out or that would there have been something else?

43:02 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't think they would have worked out. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I just think he felt very immature to me. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I had a hard time with like all of that. [SPEAKER_00]: I can't really tell you know, like [SPEAKER_00]: He was on like a lot of like sports leagues and like I felt like he was kind of like drinking a lot more than I did.

43:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just like, he very much felt like he was still in his party day. [SPEAKER_00]: He was more air. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, it's text message time. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you get the each you up text message that started everything. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, did you purposely wait until you were like driving down you would hit him in a car where he couldn't go anywhere?

43:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, did you tell producers first? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so him and I had filmed. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was like a Friday. [SPEAKER_00]: We had filmed all that night. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was like, I think it was a doctor pepper session. [SPEAKER_00]: It was such a good session. [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember I do bridal, I do makeup for brides.

44:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So the next thing we're driving down to my home time, it's like three hours from Chicago. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, but before that, I had to do makeup for a wedding. [SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, I'm getting like 4 a.m. to like do makeup. [SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, I'm sleeping on my own apartment.

44:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, I'm going to go out with my parents. [SPEAKER_00]: And then the text came, like we'd separated. [SPEAKER_00]: And then I got that night. [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember I was at dinner with maybe like my friend or something before I went home. [SPEAKER_00]: And I got it. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I just got the weirdest message from him.

44:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And I really thought that he was like trying to sex to me. [SPEAKER_00]: he's probably drawing and like his friends like just send her a message like send her a cute message that's like truly what I thought and so I didn't respond back to it. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't say anything about it and then the next day [SPEAKER_00]: we met to drive down to Pioria.

44:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And the first time we saw each other, it was like we both pulled up like production was there, like microphoneing us, like microphoneing the car. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, of course, like pull me aside, just like do like a check-in with me. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I got the weirdest message from you.

45:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I kind of like spill, and they're like, well, let's, and then they're like, well, you have to ask him up. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, yeah, obviously, who would just have, we were in the car when it came up. [SPEAKER_00]: But like I asked him pretty much like the next time I saw him in person, which also could be in the corner we were filming.

45:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I was convinced you waited. [SPEAKER_01]: I was convinced he's not going anywhere if he has to answer this question. [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, I brought it up the next day. [SPEAKER_01]: When we were like, okay, how quickly did your wheels turn and point to Madison? [SPEAKER_01]: Because you had a dinner with MN, and I think you had mentioned that, and I'm just like, produce a misoffended something.

45:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, how did she just quickly move to Madison and not maybe someone outside of the experiment completely? [SPEAKER_00]: No, no one said Madison, I think I thought that, but I think it was, I started to put that together because he told me in the car that he was out with Madison, Carla, and Allen, I think.

46:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, and then I think he gave the weird, [SPEAKER_00]: flags went up right away when whenever he said the cousin, yeah, yeah, right away, why. [SPEAKER_00]: And so that that right away knew he was lying. [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, like production never said Madison, like I think I texted them and was like, I think it's Madison.

46:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I only thought that because [SPEAKER_00]: He was with her, and I think I was talking to friends, and we were like, that's like the message you send, like when you're like looking across the table at some, we're like damn, you look so fine, you know, we're like, because I, first I thought was like, oh someone sent him a photo and he's responding to a photo.

46:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Then I'm like, how do you see a photo and then reply to me? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like you know, like that, it makes, you have to, it would be in the same, like the red. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was like, it's not a photo. [SPEAKER_00]: And then maybe even Camille was like, told me, shit, yeah, that seems like it's like, you send that to someone you're looking at.

47:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And then right away, I have. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, he was with Madison and Carla. [SPEAKER_00]: My name's Michelle, her name is Madison. [SPEAKER_00]: He probably has a safe, or last name's his math, so we're like M.M. [SPEAKER_00]: in the phone. [SPEAKER_00]: I just think that's what it happened.

47:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think I texted production. [SPEAKER_00]: the night before or the, we filmed the sound bath with the girls, but for like a couple of hours before we were set to film that I texted my producer and I was like, [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's Madison and immediately they call me, they're like, why?

47:44 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you might own theory. [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, you bring it up later. [SPEAKER_00]: And I just kept being, I was scared to bring it up because I thought I would look like insane if I was wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it took me a while to actually start saying Madison's name on camera.

48:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like telling friends, I was like, I think it's definitely her. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I was personally offended by the lie, like Kevin said in the reading, and she couldn't lie, please try. [SPEAKER_01]: This is just like insulting, actually, that you think someone's going to believe that lie.

48:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Through the points of your journey, right? [SPEAKER_01]: There were different times where I think the one month anniversary where, you know, he didn't dress up and he said he couldn't take time and he kind of called him out on that. [SPEAKER_01]: Does your mommy deal laundry? [SPEAKER_01]: Does anything?

48:35 [SPEAKER_01]: conscious of how it will come off on camera. [SPEAKER_01]: Was it truly you forget the cameras are there? [SPEAKER_01]: And it is what it is. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I was [SPEAKER_00]: Where very early on that I was going to be the villain like I felt that within like my soul I was like well lean into it now I guess but no I didn't but I also think it's you know like behind cameras they like tell you like this is your one month anniversary like treat this is like something really special um and so like in my mind I was like oh you like I just like think that I was like oh like I knew where we were going it wasn't a fancy place [SPEAKER_00]: dress up like this is like a really big deal and so it'd be like your one-year wedding anniversary like that's how you should treat it and then you like they also like what would you think of his outfit you know they kind of like egg you all okay but yeah I mean I don't I don't even remember what he was aware and I don't think his outfit was terrible I just think like I had come in with the idea that we were supposed to be like super fancy for like our big anniversary dinner

49:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay, can you have an example of the top of your head where you feel like you did give him grace, but maybe it wasn't aired [SPEAKER_00]: Like, when we were living in apartments, I don't know if this is great, but there was times where if he would go grocery shopping, like, hey, do you want to add anything to the list?

49:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, yeah, and like, or vice versa, I was like, hey, I'm out grabbing breakfast, you want me to grab you a bagel. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, we didn't always fight, you know, there was also times where we would have like an hour to break in between filming on the weekends. [SPEAKER_00]: I think the anniversary dinner actually was one of those times where we had a break and we off camera went to the bar across the street because we had an hour to kill before we had to go back to the apartment so we just like, like a beer and like just like chilled and hung out.

50:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't always just like nagging him, like putting him down, but it does appear though and like I did, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: Like I can't deny that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was going to say, we don't know that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.

50:43 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true. [SPEAKER_00]: There's that. [SPEAKER_00]: That was the other thing too. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I remember like, we'd have like that specific instant. [SPEAKER_00]: We instance. [SPEAKER_00]: We, you know, we have the horrible anniversary dinner where we're kind of fighting. [SPEAKER_00]: And then we have the poor break where we go off camera.

50:55 [SPEAKER_00]: We actually have a really good time. [SPEAKER_00]: Then as we're like heading to department to film again. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, I really have to look, we're driving back together. [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, I really have to go to the bathroom. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, okay, we're almost at the apartment.

51:07 [SPEAKER_00]: He like, a process like go in the alley and pee. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, [SPEAKER_00]: Like why would you do it in the like something like that would set me off and then like begin to cover to film and I'm already pissed. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like He's almost 40 peanut alley in the middle of downtown.

51:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Like stuff like that would just like earth me so Why are we doing that's doing Okay, all right, so that's what it was. [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe it was already a point. [SPEAKER_01]: You know when they say when someone annoys you at that point anything They do just really just [SPEAKER_01]: the noise use.

51:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, there was a point in the apartment where you guys were talking and he just casually mentions, oh yeah, I did legs and medicine. [SPEAKER_01]: I have chicken legs and she made me work out how far along was that and were you suspicious at all at that point? [SPEAKER_00]: So that was pretty early on like maybe like a couple days after we got back from the honeymoon.

51:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So I was not suspicious at all of that. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know that he was like working out with her until that moment. [SPEAKER_00]: But even when he said that I didn't, I don't think I, I think I was like, oh, they're working out in the mornings. [SPEAKER_00]: But like that was all like I didn't think there was anything going on.

52:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, couples are a treat. [SPEAKER_01]: You are a woman on a mission. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, where you, did you go in to determine to get a confession or like I have to be right? [SPEAKER_01]: Like you seemed frustrated, like the ladies weren't supporting you because you were talking about the text message at this point.

52:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So it felt like, which is why I asked that question. [SPEAKER_01]: Like if you were obsessed with it, because it went from living in the house to now the text message, like I have to get the truth out of this. [SPEAKER_01]: What was your mission? [SPEAKER_00]: I think I was obsessed with catching him in his lies because at this point now he had been switching up his story.

52:50 [SPEAKER_00]: There was so many lies and I'm like someone who hates when people lied to me, especially when they're such bad lies. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that at that point it was the cousin and then there was the tender girls I think. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think the story kept changing. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think I was [SPEAKER_00]: wanting to go and they're just to be like, in a cubic, I swear on you're like, I gave your dad, my, like an oath that I would not lie to you.

53:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And so like, I was like, you are lying. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not lying. [SPEAKER_00]: You're lying. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I was on a mission to be like, make him say he was lying. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I was on a mission to like catch him and Madison because [SPEAKER_00]: I also even leading up to the point where I can front Madison, I wasn't totally convinced that Madison was into David.

53:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I knew David would be in their her. [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't think. [SPEAKER_00]: Because there was times where we met all the girls would hang out off camera. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I just think she would be into that. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what we're thinking. [SPEAKER_01]: But again, they kind of tease that, [SPEAKER_01]: Um, when you try to lead Allen to kind of get there to see where you were, I remember thinking that I felt that you could be more delicate with him, but I don't know what you were thinking at that point.

54:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Like when you saw him start to tear up, did you feel bad? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, I've gone too far with that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that was also such an unplanned [SPEAKER_00]: Moment like I've been filming with David outside again like asking him for the truth. [SPEAKER_00]: He was you know still sticking by Tiffany or whatever And then I just happened to go inside and like was grabbing a drink and Alan came over and I was like how are you like checking in on me Which was like so kind and then like I don't know why the like something just like in me was like I need to give this guy a heads up because like the more This keeps unfolding like the more I think I'm right [SPEAKER_00]: But then when he started crying, I felt so bad.

54:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think I really hope I'm wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I look like an asshole. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I could be so wrong just because he had very strong feelings for Madison and I felt like if I'm wrong, like I've now like given him like doubt and like his love. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

55:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I was like, I'm a huge Alan girl. [SPEAKER_01]: So I was just like, stop me shall leave it below. [SPEAKER_01]: Let him stay. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, not in his bliss, but it was just awful. [SPEAKER_01]: The way it all came out. [SPEAKER_01]: How long was that conversation in the kitchen?

55:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It was so short. [SPEAKER_00]: I think the entire conversation was filmed. [SPEAKER_00]: Like we, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: Like it was it was a very short conversation. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I kind of also [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think I don't know if it would have been worse if he was like blindsided by David, you know, like when they don't know, and I don't, I've never asked him either, like, you know, should I have said something or not, I don't know, like a part me is like, I think I personally probably would wanted to heads up before just like the moment was.

56:00 [SPEAKER_00]: from David, but I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I think a heads up is good. [SPEAKER_01]: And again, just from the viewer's perspective, I felt like you just wanted your truth. [SPEAKER_01]: You wanted to know a regardless, again, it's what we see. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not necessarily the truth.

56:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So at that point, it seemed like you see okay, can you handle it? [SPEAKER_01]: But I also think it's better. [SPEAKER_00]: He was at the... [SPEAKER_00]: or the he was with Madison and David when that happened. [SPEAKER_00]: So pardon me, it was like, okay, I've talked to Carla. [SPEAKER_00]: He asked Madison because she's going to do not.

56:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I see the only other person that I hadn't talked to who was there at the text message hit was him. [SPEAKER_00]: So pardon me, was like, did you notice anything like that? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah, yeah, what was your state of mind? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to go into decision day because I think we know where you were over it and you weren't going to get the truth.

56:50 [SPEAKER_01]: but what was your state of mind going into the reunion besides your revenge dress because you were stunning that day and you were ready with a comeback and all that but going into the reunion what was your state of mind because it was a while I think a year [SPEAKER_00]: That was a year and a later that we did the reunion, um, you know, I like winning there.

57:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I'm going to be like Michelle Obama, like if they go low, like I'm saying hi, like, you know, like I was like winning out that mindset. [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, they do some things that like to get you back into like, oh, damn them. [SPEAKER_00]: So like I think I, uh, [SPEAKER_00]: My makeup time was the exact same time as Madison, so they picked us up, we had to share a card together.

57:32 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: They just like, you know, like, like, really like, we have a lot of, I don't know, any other girl, like, they just like made the same schedule, you know. [SPEAKER_00]: We started filming and right right with I we're gonna show some like never before scenes and it was like just like Madison being like Michelle's a liar She's a cheap my name out of all and I'm like, I see what they're doing here.

57:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah They're being like spying like they'll have to get it feels like You like it been a year or so it's kind of like emotions were a lot less but then of course They like right as you're walking and you know show you that [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, matching outfits, too. [SPEAKER_01]: By the warehouse get together.

58:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Were you like over it, or were you shocked that we're still together? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how long the time period was from decision day to then, but... [SPEAKER_00]: I... Let's do it. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I was shocked at like the anger that they felt towards me. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that shocked me, but I kind of went into that being like, I don't have to like give them any attention.

58:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't mean to interact with them. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think like I went to the bathroom and I came back, I like heard Madison talking about me. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, she is not kind of talk about me. [SPEAKER_00]: Like if I'm not sitting there. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think like that.

58:55 [SPEAKER_00]: really pissed me off, and then we got into like the stupid bay, but Matt, she was like, yeah, babe. [SPEAKER_01]: When this whole thing unfolded, you were very adamant that David, not blame you for it. [SPEAKER_01]: Like you just, you always wanted him to say, it's not my fault. [SPEAKER_01]: Like no matter how badly I treated you, it shouldn't be the reason why you step out on your marriage.

59:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Why was that very important to you? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I think that I didn't want him to say it in every fall. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think he kept saying that like his cheating was my fault. [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think that I think I was and I never was like mad that they like art together word got together.

59:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was all the line that pissed me off. [SPEAKER_00]: Like just like a con line to my face and him really telling me he's such a good guy. [SPEAKER_00]: And then producers and everyone else telling me he's a good guy went like in my mind I'm like a good guy would not be doing this and lying to my face continually so I think it was more I wanted him to admit that like you are not who you said you were like you portrayed yourself as this stand up guy who like [SPEAKER_00]: honor and loyalty are like the most important values to you and those were things that you did not do and not to mention the entire time we were together you kept reassuring me that like I like it when you're honest like I think it's actually really attractive like when you tell me how it is like I don't want you to like speak the funk was like has continually telling me those lines and so in my mind I'm like if that was the case like you just lied to my face I felt like he almost was

1:00:38 [SPEAKER_00]: wanting me to be the villain the entire time. [SPEAKER_00]: And he'd be this like amazing guy. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think once things were coming to light, I was like, I'll make it known that he was lying the whole time. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you understand how people conflate?

1:00:54 [SPEAKER_01]: How you treated him to this happening? [SPEAKER_01]: Or do you still stand by? [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter how badly I treated him. [SPEAKER_01]: It's still no grounds for you to. [SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot of the online argument. [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone's just like, well, she's doing badly.

1:01:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So she deserves it. [SPEAKER_01]: That's a confusion, I guess. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's an eight week thing. [SPEAKER_00]: So to me, shouldn't be. [SPEAKER_00]: And I stand by that they started this at the honeymoon. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's not a doubt in my mind. [SPEAKER_00]: And so.

1:01:25 [SPEAKER_00]: He didn't get attention for one week. [SPEAKER_00]: not even because there was like a couple days like so our marriage the next day and then we were in seclusion. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And then I was like, I'm even. [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, he didn't get attention for three days and stepped out on the marriage.

1:01:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So to me, I get like if we had been in this like loving relationship and I'm beating him down like nagging him like I do understand that, but I think that [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, tough. [SPEAKER_01]: I have some listener questions. [SPEAKER_01]: You've kind of answered this, but the person said, if the affair didn't happen, how do you think the marriage would have continued?

1:02:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I know you said it wouldn't have worked out, but would you have ended it before decision day? [SPEAKER_00]: No, I think we would have stuck it out in a decision day. [SPEAKER_00]: I think, because I actually felt like before the text message, we were getting to a better point. [SPEAKER_00]: Like he would even say, he was like, yeah, we're actually starting to get along, you know?

1:02:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Like notice a difference in her, like he openly would admit that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And so we would have gone to a point where we were like cool, like friendly. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But I think we both are always saying no on decision day, but I think we've made it absolutely to decision day.

1:02:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we still did, you know. [SPEAKER_01]: And that same vein, a question was like, Michelle seemed unhappy the whole show. [SPEAKER_01]: Was that editing, safe to say no? [SPEAKER_01]: If not, what is a favorite moment that you can share that happened during filming? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think the, um, like I had a good, like I, they only showed me being a pill.

1:03:12 [SPEAKER_00]: My, yeah, there was like great moments like I remember when we did the, um, [SPEAKER_00]: the flag football game like that was like so fun. [SPEAKER_00]: I think we had gone out the night before like most of the cases where everyone was kind of like a little hung over. [SPEAKER_00]: Like that was like really fun.

1:03:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like all of like the girls moments were really fun. [SPEAKER_00]: I even think that David and I had a good time when he like made dinner. [SPEAKER_00]: And again, like he was so hung over that day as well. [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like dragging us. [SPEAKER_00]: He'd dinner, but like even then I was like, oh, like that was like one of our like better moments.

1:03:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: And I really like his family, like I truly like when I would hang out like we did the house visits, I think we did dinner with his family, like they were such lovely people, and it's like even like getting to know them was like really a great, great memory.

1:04:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's nice. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure they hate you now, but. [SPEAKER_01]: Oops. [SPEAKER_01]: Someone asked, would you do the experience again and parenthesis if they can all calves guarantee that the match is not living with his parents? [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the thing, like I said earlier, like I don't regret going on it.

1:04:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I would probably do it again, but like I also, I don't think I would ever trust the experts or like the option to like pick my person. [SPEAKER_00]: But like overall, like I would probably do it again. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: And the last one was like, is there something about your life that has improved as a result of being a mouse?

1:04:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I like this question. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it brought up things that I was unaware of. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think they recommend everyone do therapy after the show. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think I did that right away. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I took that and then continued on with that. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that was such a positive because it brought to light things that happened in my childhood or things that happened on the show and how I act sometimes.

1:05:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that was such a positive learning experience. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think one thing I did appreciate was that you apologize to him and it wasn't a case of it is what it is. [SPEAKER_01]: I was right anyways. [SPEAKER_01]: Look at him because it's you can't dismiss one for the other.

1:05:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he had an affair, but it was a little, you know, not so nice in the beginning. [SPEAKER_00]: So I appreciate you also, you know, I wasn't aware of how the show like what it would look like when the show came out. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think at that. [SPEAKER_00]: When we filmed, I think it was the where they now, like we had only seen probably like the first three episodes who was my worst episodes.

1:05:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like, oh my God! [SPEAKER_00]: I'm even embarrassed to know that girl. [SPEAKER_00]: So that right away, like I knew like, I just needed to like own my part in it. [SPEAKER_00]: And I took a lot of anger towards the match that he that wasn't, there wasn't his, he didn't do that.

1:06:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I didn't need to take that out on him. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, did you take a lot of convincing for you to do after party? [SPEAKER_01]: Because I was like, these are rough episodes. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we're going to see her, but then you showed up and I'm like, wow, were you there?

1:06:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go on. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, did you say, do I have a choice? [SPEAKER_01]: Do I have to come on? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's so funny because I think I had like a wedding or something the first filming of that. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why I didn't show up and like the first few episodes because I missed like a weekend of filming.

1:06:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But again, I don't know what's going to be aired at that point, so I wasn't scared going into it because I only knew my own personal, like how it felt to me. [SPEAKER_00]: So I didn't know that like what was going to be shown. [SPEAKER_00]: So I wasn't nervous. [SPEAKER_00]: Had I known I'm not like what's going to work more than this?

1:06:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, back then make sense. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: If you had to pick your favorite expert, who would it be? [SPEAKER_00]: So I felt like I really liked Dr. Pia. [SPEAKER_00]: I spent the most time with her, but I also think she was the hardest on me. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I would be such easy sessions with Dr. Pepper, but I felt like I always took a nugget of truth or like something I learned every time I met with Dr. Pia.

1:07:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you watch, like what was your journey with Maths before you signed up for the show? [SPEAKER_01]: Did you watch it? [SPEAKER_00]: So I hadn't like, I had seen it because I had seen a few episodes, and then once I started the interview process, I binge. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was a Nashville season was the current one.

1:07:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So I like watched as like homework to know what I was doing. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, because I was going to ask you, like if you could pick someone from the math universe, one of the grooms, who would you match yourself with? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I don't know, because I haven't seen a lot of... Yeah, I do feel like the one guy in the current season was pretty cute.

1:08:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Now I can't think of his name either. [SPEAKER_01]: Who was his story? [SPEAKER_00]: No, he was like the blonde, longer hair. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm blanking also. [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, he'll come to me. [SPEAKER_01]: I had two guys for you. [SPEAKER_01]: But one of them might be your no because it was McKinley, but he also did not have a place.

1:08:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Hang on, he's not even out of state. [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't have a place and I gave him shit for it. [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I just feel like aesthetically you guys with match, but so maybe that's a no. [SPEAKER_01]: And then the other person, okay, maybe I don't have matches for you.

1:08:44 [SPEAKER_01]: The other person was Jake. [SPEAKER_01]: Only because he's age appropriate, but he was obsessed. [SPEAKER_01]: He was in that land a season. [SPEAKER_01]: He was obsessed with the 80s and kind of an odd ball. [SPEAKER_01]: He had a house. [SPEAKER_01]: He was established. [SPEAKER_01]: He just has interest and I don't know I don't know about either of those.

1:09:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know real world. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just real world. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just do that. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so who do you keep up with like now on the show? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I pretty much, I just saw Camille, M.M. [SPEAKER_00]: and Carla, M.M. [SPEAKER_00]: we wouldn't saw M.M.' [SPEAKER_00]: 's baby, so I keep up with all the girls pretty much.

1:09:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and then we'll not want to call me the other day, I kept up. [SPEAKER_00]: We had a full conversation, but yeah, pretty much all the girls. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, except Matt has to have a little time. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, safe to say. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: I have a personal campaign.

1:09:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to get mass representation on traders. [SPEAKER_01]: I think due to your detective skills that you would be good at traders, would you do any other reality? [SPEAKER_01]: Would you go back on reality TV or be a dream? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm obsessed with traders. [SPEAKER_00]: I love traders so much.

1:09:53 [SPEAKER_00]: That would be an absolute dream. [SPEAKER_01]: Is that any other show that you can see yourself on? [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I don't think I, I don't know, like some of them. [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't do dating, but also like, I think I've like sadly aged out. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like dating on reality TV, but I feel like traders probably, um, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's that would probably be it.

1:10:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I'm like brave enough to do like the MTV like challenge or anything like a little bit scare me. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, okay, okay So my final question is what do you wish people knew about you that they didn't see on the show because I feel based on your Instagram. [SPEAKER_01]: You're like a completely different person like you go out.

1:10:34 [SPEAKER_01]: You work out. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I even knew you had a dog. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know you was your dog on the show [SPEAKER_01]: I think he wasn't in there. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but was he on the show? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It was too overwhelming to try to like work film and like take care of him.

1:10:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I just felt back because I feel like he'd be alone a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So I warmed up my sister. [SPEAKER_00]: So he was at my sister's the entire time. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it just feels like a completely different perk, like I said, the matchmaking was a completely different person from the person that we saw in the show and the person that I see now, like, on Instagram, I'm not stalking anything, I'm just, my feet, and it's just like, you know, that's the reality of reality of reality shows is like we think we know someone and [SPEAKER_01]: We only getting a snippet and it's whatever the storyline or the narrative.

1:11:23 [SPEAKER_01]: There's some truth, but you know, we don't know the person as a whole. [SPEAKER_01]: So what is the one thing you wish or more that people knew about you that didn't get to know? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't think anyone got to see my actual personality. [SPEAKER_00]: And I also think like, which I fully admit, like, when I feel stuck in a situation that I can't get out of, like, it's really hard for me to like balance it out of that.

1:11:51 [SPEAKER_00]: felt like I was like, you know, like stuck in this marriage, stuck filming. [SPEAKER_00]: And so like you never got to see like the lighter moments I had until basically the end. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think like I don't think anyone saw my personality. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I think the only like glimpse maybe was like, [SPEAKER_00]: the football game.

1:12:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like smile twice maybe that episode. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it just felt like I, you know, like I'm not somewhere, it's like such a sour push. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I admit, I did wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I won't deny that, but yeah, I just think like I do smile. [SPEAKER_00]: I have a personality.

1:12:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm fun, you know, like it's just like, I live a very normal life. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: But not as like, I'm just that's what they made me see. [SPEAKER_00]: It's superficial. [SPEAKER_01]: Lifestyle, money. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, heavy, because at some point, they were like, what is success to you?

1:12:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you listed the things he listed his and you were like, okay, now it sounds like all I care about is money. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was a good moment for me. [SPEAKER_01]: It was rough, it was rough, but thank you so much for spending time and chatting about your time. [SPEAKER_01]: It was such a pleasure.

1:13:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you want to be found, but where can people find you if they want to? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, on my M.D. [SPEAKER_00]: Tom Bluen on all socials. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, guys, you know where to find me. [SPEAKER_01]: It's also called MEFS and all those social handles, Instagram, ex, blue sky, threads, you can find me on there.

1:13:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Please give me a 5 star rating and Apple podcasts and Spotify really helps the podcast and stay subscribed so you don't miss out on any new episodes. [SPEAKER_01]: Until next time, guys, bye!