MAFS S20 Decision Day w/Priscilla

0:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Hello everybody, welcome to another new episode of Taint Talks. [SPEAKER_01]: I am your host Tain. [SPEAKER_01]: We are counting down to the end. [SPEAKER_01]: There is one more and today's episode for a Marida for a site season 20 decision day. [SPEAKER_01]: We are finally made it to the day, but today guys my guest today is the first of her clients to come on the pod.

0:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you a little intro over here. [SPEAKER_01]: She's a former Yale English professor, a prominent book critic, a former literary agent. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I got that word out. [SPEAKER_01]: Usually I stumbled, but also, but also an author. [SPEAKER_01]: She writes about parenthood, divorce, grieve, and the endearing power of art, and she has honesty that is usually like activating in her books.

1:00 [SPEAKER_01]: You may know her from the Parenting Memoir, the Anti-Romantic Child, or the Family Tribute, the one I started, the Critics Daughter, which was the Washington Post Book of 2023, New York Times Book Critics, Favorite Book of 2023. [SPEAKER_01]: Good morning America must read for February 2023 and one of Los Angeles Times book top 10 nonfiction books of 2023 y'all know I read.

1:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So I talk about it all the time. [SPEAKER_01]: So my guest today is Priscilla Gilman and Priscilla. [SPEAKER_01]: It is so wonderful to have you here today. [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome. [SPEAKER_00]: Tane, thank you for that incredible introduction. [SPEAKER_00]: I have to say you are a legend in my and my sister's mind because I have been listening to your podcast since [SPEAKER_00]: Really cold it.

1:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: When I started you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, and I'm, I'm just telling you, I mean, I am at. [SPEAKER_00]: I am a married at first sight. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Jeer.

2:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I watched the very first episode when it first aired. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I only have missed one season. [SPEAKER_00]: You can ask me, which is interesting, which one. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I love the show so much. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so excited that it is finally hitting the big time.

2:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: who've been waiting for a long time dating for a long time, but I I just am so happy to be here and I will tell you one thing that connects my academic background to my interest in [SPEAKER_00]: So, I have always been interested in the marriage plot as we call it in academia, exploring what gets people together, the wrong guy, the right guy, what leads you on that married path to marriage.

2:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, I started with the voucher that was my first show that I became obsessed with. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a love-as-blind obsessive. [SPEAKER_01]: Now we will get the I mean guys for context to see how this came about like I think Priscilla commented on Instagram and I'm like is this a lot like what is happening but it really is and then she commented again and I was like oh my god I would love to discuss with you and she was like yeah sure but then time goes by all of the things and I think now it worked out you know back for us but timing scheduling is [SPEAKER_01]: Here we are.

3:41 [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean going back to where to this and you said it's always like a lot of people really think that if you're into academia or if you're smarter anything I have comments like you seem smart. [SPEAKER_01]: Why are you into reality? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what that means. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't believe in guilty pleasures like you said pleasure So it's like you've talked about Marida for a side.

4:01 [SPEAKER_01]: How did you get into? [SPEAKER_01]: Marida for a site and what is the season that you missed? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious. [SPEAKER_00]: So the season that missed is the, I think it's Houston with Johnny and Brad and like, I know about the characters. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I think I read in advance that like it was an absolute disaster and nobody stayed together.

4:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But then I'm sort of tempted to go back and watch it. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the ones that I recommend to people actually. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I always say if you want love and mess combined 11 with New Orleans, of course, 12, I did the rewatch of nine and 13. [SPEAKER_01]: Houston is up there.

4:41 [SPEAKER_01]: San Diego too. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would recommend. [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes. [SPEAKER_00]: So I will do it. [SPEAKER_00]: I promise you, I will do it. [SPEAKER_00]: So I remember it was I think it was 2013 or 2014 when it started airing. [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember I saw an article about this show that was going to have Jamie from the bachelor on it.

5:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, I knew her because I had watched the bachelor. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And it was going to have an expert named Pepper Schwartz. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I think you know my mom is a very eminent literary agent. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And my mother was Pepper Schwartz's agent in the 70s and 80s.

5:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So I remember Dr. Robert, to me she was Pepper Swartz. [SPEAKER_00]: She came over. [SPEAKER_00]: She was tiny. [SPEAKER_00]: She was about my height. [SPEAKER_00]: Even though I was nine, you know, I gave her a lot of hugs. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought she was awesome. [SPEAKER_00]: So I was like this, but I knew she was very smart.

5:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I knew actually an academic. [SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, [SPEAKER_00]: This sounds amazing like I'm really interested. [SPEAKER_00]: So I was obsessed with that first season. [SPEAKER_00]: I loved Courtney. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sad that Jake Courtney and Jason that they didn't work out. [SPEAKER_00]: I actually friended a bunch of that cast on Facebook.

5:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm still friends with like Monet. [SPEAKER_00]: I think on Facebook. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was really invested. [SPEAKER_01]: And then two and three were absolute disasters. [SPEAKER_00]: My sister and I then I sort of wasn't watching and then my sister and I got obsessed with love as buying were like, you know, just learning Cameron for ever and then we wanted more so we started to do it watching old seasons as my own side okay just binge them and then I started binging you.

6:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I would take a walk every day. [SPEAKER_01]: You aid. [SPEAKER_01]: I adore you, sad you're not here. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: So like literally like because my sis, it's my show that I walked with my sister and then we debrief. [SPEAKER_00]: And so you too in your friendship and the way that you can disagree.

6:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Look for each other and kind of validate each other. [SPEAKER_00]: But really, no, I have a different take. [SPEAKER_00]: It reminded me of me and my sister. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I think we approached the show. [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, Tane, my sister hasn't, I have a PhD in English.

6:46 [SPEAKER_00]: She is a PhD in our history. [SPEAKER_00]: She is a curator in New York City. [SPEAKER_00]: We want the show. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not a guilty posture. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a pleasure. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: That's so cool. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to let ignore it.

6:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, for those of you who are new, I had to co-host her name is A. [SPEAKER_01]: We're still friends. [SPEAKER_01]: She's just not on the podcast anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: And fun enough for old listeners. [SPEAKER_01]: A. [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be my home tonight. [SPEAKER_01]: So I am going to see her and I'm going to pass that on.

7:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.

7:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh [SPEAKER_01]: to her.

7:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's so cool. [SPEAKER_01]: I really appreciate it. [SPEAKER_01]: I never take anyone who still listens to the show for granted. [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess this is what I'm saying. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, Taint Taint, like when a new season is coming, I almost anticipate listening to you and to Sarah Colona.

7:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that podcast is so fun. [SPEAKER_00]: I love both of your podcasts. [SPEAKER_00]: They should their bookends. [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody who loves M.A.FS needs to go back and listen to all your [SPEAKER_00]: And I think you and I very similar taste in the couples too because I think we're couple of all time and my sisters is Woody and Amani.

7:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I think a lot of us, like it's just to me, it's not debatable, but maybe there are people who don't think so, but you know, we're in. [SPEAKER_01]: We're now on Peacock. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a new show. [SPEAKER_01]: So people argue we shouldn't be called married at first sight anymore because it's all different and decision day is completely different.

8:07 [SPEAKER_01]: We will dive straight into Tori and Felipe, which is where we ended with the last time. [SPEAKER_01]: And the big question was what did Felipe say to Tori? [SPEAKER_01]: It's unfortunate that the night before Peacock released the clip. [SPEAKER_01]: So we hung out, they took it down, but everyone was talking about it.

8:26 [SPEAKER_01]: The cast members were reposting it, even Felipe didn't seem like he was remorseful about whatever what he said and was reposting it, but you know, she asked him like, if what you told me, you could think that's normal and he's stammering, I was like, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Then in a selfie cam, she tells us that he told me, probably, that he's thought constantly of cheating on me.

8:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, she doesn't know if he wanted a paycheck, if he wanted a plow, which he also said, and that he wants to go into politics. [SPEAKER_00]: Or to be the next Bill Clinton. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, sexotic, slacks, both of them, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow, you know, let me tell you, my sister and I love to Michelle from two seasons.

9:06 [SPEAKER_00]: It goes, I love to think you had Michelle, and Michelle, if you're listening, you were awesome. [SPEAKER_00]: You were Queen. [SPEAKER_00]: My sister and I both love you, and you were debating with her, like, what could it be? [SPEAKER_00]: And what is it that he said? [SPEAKER_00]: And she was quite close to it.

9:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, my thinking, well, first of all, I could just talk about the fact that how weird was it that there were no experts at this year? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and that's the thing, Torin Felipe, like I thought they were just meeting at a random place and they were good.

9:32 [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to talk about it, but then in future couples, they go to the experts first. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so I's not sure why maybe because Torin Felipe, we're going to break up. [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't think it was worth seeing the experts and maybe it's like whatever advice they said counter.

9:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, maybe it was counter, whatever it was going to happen. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, but dating gets to see the expert. [SPEAKER_01]: No, they would get to see the experts. [SPEAKER_00]: I noticed that too, because when it switched to Bell and Maca, we had the experts saying something about this is the best match on paper.

10:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Neither of them have experienced healthy love. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh, I guess we're transitioning to another couple now, but we didn't have any of them with Tori and Felipe. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: Tori and Felipe. [SPEAKER_00]: OK, I mean, Tori is just a queen.

10:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I've loved Tori all season. [SPEAKER_00]: I think she's amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mean, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think though that Felipe is sociopathic. [SPEAKER_00]: Tories that called him sociopathic in her in her diary camp. [SPEAKER_00]: And she was obviously enraged and I understood.

10:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was hilarious when she said, even on a marriage show, fuck boys, find me. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh my god, he's your daughter. [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to the jury. [SPEAKER_00]: But Felipe is extremely immature. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: He, I think, might be a sex addict.

10:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I actually, you know how a lot of people over the course of this season, a lot of commentary has been like, is he on coke? [SPEAKER_00]: Is he like, he's, or drinking. [SPEAKER_00]: He's addicted to something. [SPEAKER_00]: But I almost felt like it's Felipe. [SPEAKER_00]: He, he's so un, he's so immature and underdeveloped emotionally that I genuinely, I actually think that he genuinely thought he was doing the right thing by telling her this.

11:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, and he said that right when he was like, everybody told me to be honest. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I just thought I should be honest that he constant was has constantly been thinking about [SPEAKER_00]: 10, because nobody should be marrying this man, like, like, at the same time, I was like, hopefully, but why do you have to say this?

11:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, Mecca has the same problem with, like, saying things that you just need to keep inside on the other hand. [SPEAKER_00]: It's good that these women are given an opportunity to hear internal dialogue that shows us that this person is not meant to be married. [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.

11:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think that's a different angle because I think what I was thinking about Felipe was just that he likes the attention good or bad, whichever way it comes. [SPEAKER_01]: So he's just going to say it, but maybe it was me not wanting to accept that a man in his late 20s does not know the difference between right or wrong or saying not like you know.

12:17 [SPEAKER_01]: what's seen that would do to her and either way you were choosing like if I'm going to hurt her, I'm going to protect myself and you chose to hurt her in that way, which is cruel. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I also thought that maybe he told her that because he knew he wasn't ready for marriage and this would mean that she would say no.

12:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that is what I believe he said, eventually at the reunion, but also it's a I've not watched the reunion, okay, okay, I was so disciplined because it was like it will bleed into my commentary today. [SPEAKER_00]: I know that Mac and Belle broke up because I saw it on Instagram, but I have watched how it happened.

13:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I don't know what he said at the reunion. [SPEAKER_00]: This is okay. [SPEAKER_00]: It was just my take on, you know, whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: Every other word out of his mouth, though, in this speech, I was like, you honestly think this is going to go over, well, you look, yeah, we have some, you know, every other word was asked, I don't want to hurt you.

13:16 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll fucking like you, you know, two things I don't feel fucking certain. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, yeah, oh my god, sir. [SPEAKER_00]: And his foot shaking in the sneaker when he was sitting in the in the confessional. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And my parents are going to kill me.

13:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is just an underdeveloped man child. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it is. [SPEAKER_01]: But you aren't right. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, no spoilers, but yes, you are right that that is the reason why he said that. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I do wish we got into detail on what he actually said, because it is similar to what he's been saying, like it didn't sound like this groundbreaking thing he has been saying that he wants to cheat on her.

13:51 [SPEAKER_01]: He wants to sleep with a lot of women. [SPEAKER_01]: He wants to do this. [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to know why this was the one that broke the camel's back for Tory. [SPEAKER_01]: It could have just been an accumulation. [SPEAKER_00]: Tane, I feel exactly the same way. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought her reaction was a little bit excessive in the sense that why not, like, this was just another version of what he'd been saying all along.

14:14 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't like it took it to a whole new, that's where everybody was speculating, oh, he asked her explicitly for an open marriage. [SPEAKER_00]: People were saying he was hiding a child or something. [SPEAKER_00]: Because he extent of anger, [SPEAKER_00]: It was I think it I think it was what you're saying it was like the straw that broke the candle It's like I do genuinely believe.

14:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I do think that he truly really liked Tory But I think he came up to the limit of what he can do at this point in his development and you and you know It this is he should not have been put on the show. [SPEAKER_00]: I've been with you all along. [SPEAKER_00]: I do not not showing up for the zoom meetings That should have been enough to eliminate him.

14:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but they probably thought [SPEAKER_00]: you know, this will be great drama. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I think they would because when he said, if we're to stay together, it will be a lot of stuff we need to work on and I really wish I could describe the look of disgust that Tory had earned her face as she listened to him say this because she's like in what world.

15:09 [SPEAKER_01]: do you think we're going to beat together? [SPEAKER_00]: And then you take, yes, and also, and also, in what world is there work that I, Torrey have to do? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't have any work to do. [SPEAKER_00]: You have to go do your work, right? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we all can work on ourselves, whatever, but like this was not a Torrey of belief, eh, problem.

15:28 [SPEAKER_00]: This was a belief, eh, problem, right? [SPEAKER_00]: So I, I did think about the, the sex addiction though a little bit more when he was in the confessional pain and he, he described it [SPEAKER_00]: Um, that he was having these intrusive thoughts. [SPEAKER_00]: I just kept thinking he needs help.

15:44 [SPEAKER_00]: He's trying to be honest. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I honestly think in a way, it was almost like an experiment for him. [SPEAKER_00]: Tane, do you remember how you said this earlier this week? [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was on threads. [SPEAKER_00]: You said this and I couldn't agree with you more where you were calling out.

15:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Mecha for being like, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, it's an experiment to kind of see if you're ready for marriage. [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not an experiment to see if you're ready for marriage. [SPEAKER_00]: It's an experiment to see if you can marry the person that they've not used to.

16:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like the leap I was just, you know, putting forth some about same energy that macabons he was like. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if I can ever commit, this is going to be the situation where I could, because of the on TV. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to have my parents, you know, they love jewelry, et cetera.

16:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he said, right person wrong time. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's a lie necessarily. [SPEAKER_00]: But the question is will there ever be a right time for this guy. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the question that I think I've never actually bought into the right person wrong time. [SPEAKER_01]: I just feel like if that's the case then it's the wrong person.

16:47 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the right person. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, some may argue that, but I've just always thought that, but I just think like a lot of this men came in ass backwards because he's through and these men feel like they can come on TV, do whatever they want to do and then throw in therapy.

17:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it fixes everything. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a bandage. [SPEAKER_01]: You actually have to do the work. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and Felipe it was like, oh, I'll give you go for therapy Like I can do that to figure out what I want in my life similar to what Mech has said you have to figure that out before you come on They showed Percent And you know what towards your point about there's no such thing as right person wrong time [SPEAKER_00]: Cameron and Michelle it was absolutely the wrong time for in a lot of ways for both of them but they were the right person until it wasn't for long time.

17:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But we'll get to that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, I think it gave me that. [SPEAKER_01]: The thing about Felipe is he's saying a lot of things. [SPEAKER_01]: I've kind of tuned out but he's also laughing and that throws me off. [SPEAKER_01]: It just throws me off completely. [SPEAKER_01]: He's saying I don't want to go to my house alone.

17:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not what I want. [SPEAKER_01]: I want to cuddle with you and with the [SPEAKER_01]: What do you want? [SPEAKER_01]: Like are you trying to say yes? [SPEAKER_01]: Like even after what you said like let's be realistic But she's just like stoic. [SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't say anything.

18:01 [SPEAKER_01]: She's just like I think that we should part ways like that's it. [SPEAKER_01]: We should just part ways [SPEAKER_01]: And we should get a divorce and he's like, it doesn't feel real, but I'm like, you don't seem devastated because not along you knew you were going to say no. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

18:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's not act like this was a fun experiment. [SPEAKER_01]: You get to hang out. [SPEAKER_01]: You get to promote your restaurant and you get to. [SPEAKER_01]: Find new bros. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but you had a great example is going to say, become best buddies without him. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

18:34 [SPEAKER_00]: No, you're you're so right. [SPEAKER_00]: And and and I think he honestly believes that he's going to have a lot of women after him after I think he is going to have virtually no women after. [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I don't think that he might not not have a lot of women because that's just the world we live in.

18:50 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just that. [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, we'll see, but I just I think he might, you know, the world we live in, he just might have it. [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, he might book himself another show. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see what happens.

19:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I think he or Adam is going to show up on another show. [SPEAKER_00]: I said the same thing. [SPEAKER_00]: I said Adam, if we see him in perfect match, but with the match, we're out of I agree. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my phone opened his wardrobe belt. [SPEAKER_01]: He's got to. [SPEAKER_01]: He's got to.

19:16 [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's how he gets attention. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what he's going to do. [SPEAKER_01]: But he does hand her the flowers. [SPEAKER_01]: They he got her, which if you guys remember in the very very first episode, I was like, oh, maybe there's a chance because he's coming with flowers on decision day.

19:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, if they weren't bad terms, would he bring flowers, but I didn't know the fuckery that was ahead of us. [SPEAKER_01]: So, [SPEAKER_01]: Here we are. [SPEAKER_00]: It's meant to retain yourself right. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the worst kind of bringing flowers. [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's the penitent, like maybe these flowers can make up for the terrible hold of the knife coming that I've drilled into your heart.

19:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, no. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, and I never found him attractive as you, the hunching. [SPEAKER_00]: I kept wanting to send him to my massage therapist to my choir project. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's a bad person. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I watch so many reality shows like Chris, Chris, you know, infamous Chris from the show.

20:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Paige and Chris. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes, yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Diabolical, yes, that person. [SPEAKER_00]: This is not a bad person. [SPEAKER_00]: He's just an incredibly immature person. [SPEAKER_00]: And I hope he gets help. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's all I have to say. [SPEAKER_00]: But don't do.

20:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't put us through your help. [SPEAKER_00]: Go on through the earth and do your therapy. [SPEAKER_01]: That is it. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, she said she wants to be far away from him. [SPEAKER_01]: She's pissed that this was a game to him. [SPEAKER_01]: She has learned that she deserves to have someone who show up as much as she does.

20:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And the producers asked him if he actually told her that he had thoughts of cheating on her. [SPEAKER_01]: And he pauses for a long time in the producers like, [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, it was in a diary camp. [SPEAKER_01]: He was like, oh, it was and I'm like, what did you think that you were going to get away with it?

20:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a reality show. [SPEAKER_01]: They're covering all bases. [SPEAKER_01]: So he says he's going to take a break from girls and grow up and I don't know if I believe in that so. [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, I he is definitely not going to take a break from girls. [SPEAKER_00]: He can't. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I think he hasn't a there's an addictive component to it.

21:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's my thought. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see. [SPEAKER_00]: Go some to rehab on Portory. [SPEAKER_00]: What a what a yeah, what a what a lovely beautiful human being really yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So we get our first [SPEAKER_00]: I have to tell you, Tane, my sister sent me a child. [SPEAKER_00]: My sister was a little bit belated getting into this season, and I was wondering her, and I was like, you've got to do this.

21:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I start to get this flood of tax about two weeks ago. [SPEAKER_00]: Is Belle not the best person ever on a reality show? [SPEAKER_00]: I just adore her so much. [SPEAKER_00]: I, she is, one of the most kind empathetic luminously wise and she's almost too wise and empathetic for her own good.

21:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I got it. [SPEAKER_00]: I've been that person. [SPEAKER_01]: She's in her 20s. [SPEAKER_01]: I think I have to remember that like, you know, in their 20s. [SPEAKER_01]: So she's going through that. [SPEAKER_01]: So paths is continuing. [SPEAKER_01]: They have they meet the experts because they're going with the first couple that meet the experts has continues again to mention how neither of them have experienced or seen healthy love.

22:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And Nekka says he's confident on what he's deciding. [SPEAKER_01]: Mel says she's exhausted and she's just ready to get this over with. [SPEAKER_01]: Bell says that Mecca has been great with the experts and I'm like, oh, she says he has no complaints outside of the self sabotaging and I'm like, oh, okay, and Paul is like, you've been loyal, you've been a defender and does she feel like he has the same for her.

22:46 [SPEAKER_01]: She says no that she's that he's used to being kicked to the curb when he does things wrong. [SPEAKER_01]: So she feels like if she shows him real love then he'll show up for her. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, that's so sweet bit. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not how it works, but I understand, you know what she's saying.

23:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if the experts want her to say no because Paul is saying women allow themselves to be chosen, but they don't consciously make the choice for themselves. [SPEAKER_01]: and then pass follows up and says, you deserve the world and you should never at the expense of yourself except anything less and you know what would it be fun if the expert says like they should predict if someone is going to say oh if they should say yes or no [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, I've got no degree with you more and I was thinking that too.

23:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking they're subtly kind of nudging her towards saying no. [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like they and empowering her to say no. [SPEAKER_00]: And supporting her validating her and saying no. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was thinking about why they got rid of the experts, [SPEAKER_00]: The other thing that was so weird, just kind of an overall comparison commenting is like, how the setups were so different for the different decision days.

23:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, and pelling back, there was like a pigeon strutting around behind them. [SPEAKER_00]: They're all these crowds of people they had to kind of walk through, whereas we're sort of believe they were alone in a random field. [SPEAKER_00]: And then Nicky had to come up behind Sean.

24:09 [SPEAKER_00]: It was so weird. [SPEAKER_01]: The whole thing was so strange. [SPEAKER_01]: But that's a good point because I think Adam and Marissa and Belle and Mecca have the same set up were stores, but then Sean and Nicky were like in the balcony of what I think is the apartment building. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought I was like, what are we expecting Sean to do?

24:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's put on his robe and stand around in the apartment and definitely. [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, it was funny because I was thinking about mental last season. [SPEAKER_00]: there were some criticism that the experts kind of nudged people to say yes on decision day. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but he said yes.

24:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And Ronda and Pat was clearly not going to say yes and then they were sort of like encouraging them towards saying yes. [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe they felt like they wanted it to be less inhibited or facilitated by the experts. [SPEAKER_00]: But I almost felt like Pat's and I love the [SPEAKER_00]: We don't get to discuss court tonight.

25:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you call it a day, and I love it. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, she's out of the worst people I've ever seen under reality show, by the way, in contrast with that. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm with you not. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, it's so wonderful to not have to watch her. [SPEAKER_00]: But I was wondering if like the way that they were talking to her and then to Maca, I really did feel like they were preparing Belle to stand up for herself.

25:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to say, Tan, Mekka did so well in this conversation. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I thought he was really bringing it. [SPEAKER_00]: He was really falling on his sword for his mistakes. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I could see why she would get nudged towards saying yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

25:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Because he was so, you know, I wrote down here, why did Toreen Philippe get a field and Mekka and Bella are surrounded by people and pigeons. [SPEAKER_00]: And then Belle said, I hope if I've done nothing else, I've shown you that you were deserving of these things. [SPEAKER_00]: And I just thought that was so sweet.

26:13 [SPEAKER_00]: But I felt like that was sending it up to break up. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, let's leave this with our dignity and tact, the gifts that we've given each other. [SPEAKER_00]: And Maca starts turning it on. [SPEAKER_00]: And it felt genuine, like I love your inner laughter. [SPEAKER_00]: So smart, you have a great work ethic.

26:29 [SPEAKER_00]: You've got a wonderful sense of humor. [SPEAKER_00]: It was being romantic with her. [SPEAKER_00]: Did you notice he kissed her hand? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he did. [SPEAKER_01]: He said, you know, she says she feels seen. [SPEAKER_01]: He says he feels confidential. [SPEAKER_01]: Take work.

26:40 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the thing with Mecca, though, is that Mecca is good with the words. [SPEAKER_01]: The problem is backing it up with action because at the end of the day, they cannot live. [SPEAKER_01]: Man, can that live on words alone? [SPEAKER_00]: So, and he was, he was, you know, pulling out those words.

26:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So, he said immensely respected or heard. [SPEAKER_00]: He said it, it's a word. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he was really, really. [SPEAKER_00]: But Patina will say, one, one coffee up to what you just said. [SPEAKER_00]: He's good with the words. [SPEAKER_01]: Until he isn't. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, as in oh, and he has your your the percentage of attraction.

27:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, I would have been out at that moment. [SPEAKER_00]: I would have been out. [SPEAKER_00]: I would have been. [SPEAKER_00]: Nope. [SPEAKER_00]: Nope. [SPEAKER_00]: We're not. [SPEAKER_00]: Why are we talking mathematically about a little attraction to each other and then the comment at the table and I mean, I just I couldn't I couldn't it was I so want to hurt to say no.

27:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But I do feel like they have a really great friendship. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what happens on the rune. [SPEAKER_00]: And I hope it doesn't break up. [SPEAKER_00]: I hope that they break up, but I hope that they break up. [SPEAKER_00]: But I hope they make it be friends, but maybe not.

27:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: That's finally shared, but yes, I mean, it was cute to see their interaction and like you said since you're turned around and she had thought about it. [SPEAKER_01]: You can tell that she's been going back and forth. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, you know, she loved the one thing I always like is when couples list actual reasons why they like their exactly it's in the specific reasons.

28:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, I love how feelers you are. [SPEAKER_01]: I like how you can read my mind like your special. [SPEAKER_01]: and the same thing for him, like for once he's like you're intellect, you're smart. [SPEAKER_01]: Not things like you don't have big boobs or thicker, whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: Just an amazing body, too.

28:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank God. [SPEAKER_00]: Pain that he, I mean, I'm sorry. [SPEAKER_00]: Just a stunning, she is. [SPEAKER_00]: Slowly stunning. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think he's extremely attractive, too. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: If any, but she is just like, movie star gorgeous. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess.

28:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a little dimples. [SPEAKER_01]: It's very cute. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm so sweet. [SPEAKER_00]: And then, yeah, too. [SPEAKER_00]: But you're right that it was clear she was going back and forth. [SPEAKER_00]: I noticed that she was hesitating a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: Made him wait. [SPEAKER_00]: She slowed it down and she really waited.

28:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I loved it when she said, if you play with me, [SPEAKER_00]: on you. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to take all my brothers and Paul. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I loved it. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad that I didn't know what she said. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought she said Paul and I was like, wait, but I don't think she said her grandpa and I was like, I know her dad is learning her life, but that makes sense.

29:10 [SPEAKER_01]: He just clicked now. [SPEAKER_01]: It is Paul. [SPEAKER_01]: It is. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it was. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes, it was. [SPEAKER_00]: And I almost felt like when she said my brother or is I almost felt like she was talking about Devon and [SPEAKER_01]: No, she has multiple brothers that they've never showed on the show, but yeah, I mean it was just cute because he says like I'm choosing to stay married and I want to stay with you because he knows there's a lot of room for them to explore and grow together.

29:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, she exiled, she paused and she was like she wants it to get to a place where she felt sure. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, to stay married and she wants to know what's on the other side, but she does say yes. [SPEAKER_01]: And it was cute because then he tipped his hat because he was going to [SPEAKER_01]: and they will say it feels good, they're excited and, you know, she says she has a lot of love for him and the love is peaking and this is the one season where none of the couples have said I love you through the season.

30:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, you are so right. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, weirdly, for those of you who are new, one thing that was kind of unusual about the season is how many of them, though, Tane, were having sex. [SPEAKER_00]: Because we've got to see this is almost no one has sex. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, or even like, does anything?

30:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, the only one that didn't have the old Courtney, obviously. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's a court tonight. [SPEAKER_00]: Right, me, continuity, Caitlin. [SPEAKER_00]: Caitlin, and that's it. [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody knows. [SPEAKER_01]: Nicky didn't. [SPEAKER_01]: She had a son and counter.

30:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I agree with you on what it was, too. [SPEAKER_01]: That's a number. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a number. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a number. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's funny. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so yeah, they hadn't said I love you, but you know, they kiss again and he says, this is a wedding redo for fresh air.

30:46 [SPEAKER_01]: She refused to kiss him on wedding day. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that started the trajectory of that whole wedding and the attraction thing. [SPEAKER_01]: I often wonder what it would have been. [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing like you should matter, but based on his maturity level, [SPEAKER_00]: 10, I am 100% with you on this.

31:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember you saying something like, come on, just give me kiss. [SPEAKER_00]: So the altar, you're married like, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: She was being artificially setting like an artificial boundary that I don't think she needed to just sat in and dance. [SPEAKER_00]: I think she could have just flowed into the moment with him.

31:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that he took it personally. [SPEAKER_00]: I do think it wound at him a little bit. [SPEAKER_00]: because of the way his father has set him up to expect and the father's hyper-sexual. [SPEAKER_00]: Pollocks and a hyper-sexual way with him makes him feel that he has to be kind of celebrated and lionized as a man and now getting kissed at the altar put him on the defense.

31:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm really honestly not sure, Tane. [SPEAKER_00]: I have to say like his whole thing about how it was about the boobs. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we saw that ex-girlfriend of his on TikTok. [SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't have any more boobs than Bell does. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, when you know, men don't know what they want.

31:58 [SPEAKER_01]: They just talk. [SPEAKER_01]: They just talk, they should talk to Tane. [SPEAKER_00]: They should be on the top. [SPEAKER_00]: So you can set them straight, Tane. [SPEAKER_01]: I can't 100 because I like Mecha and Belle, but I do to more for Belle that I can't say that Oh, I'm overjoyed, like you know, like you think of work if they could not, but I just wanted her to be happy.

32:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I think she's my, she's my, I mean, she and Michelle, I, I just adore both both of all of the women and all the women were except for court tonight. [SPEAKER_00]: Caitlyn has issues, but I don't lose Caitlyn. [SPEAKER_00]: I think Caitlyn's not a bad person. [SPEAKER_00]: I think she's a severe avoidant attachment style and she should not have been on the show as you said.

32:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I entertain now we move to the big [SPEAKER_00]: in raging, mind blowing couple, perhaps ever on merit of her side. [SPEAKER_00]: And as you said, every week, it's go completely different story. [SPEAKER_01]: But this is why you need to watch season because they're not the most perplexing.

33:11 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a couple there that you need to, that gives them a little run for their money. [SPEAKER_01]: Is that the Kayla? [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: There were a hot and cold. [SPEAKER_01]: But yes, we were talking about Sean and Nikki.

33:25 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, she doesn't meet at the beginning that she felt like she was hurting his feelings. [SPEAKER_01]: He said they had friction that we were fighting for power, both are true. [SPEAKER_01]: She said that now she's more physically attracted to him and like we said they mean I at first I thought it was a rooftop and then I was like wait These are the apartments like I don't think this is anything but they she got into a car So I'm like we're she driving to just went around the block and came right [SPEAKER_01]: to the apartment, but I will see this.

33:54 [SPEAKER_01]: They both look nice. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is Sean included. [SPEAKER_01]: Sean is a lot of things, but I like this look as a little suit. [SPEAKER_01]: He's a little white shirt, and he's nearer, Tena. [SPEAKER_00]: I do not think so. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and I will confess. [SPEAKER_00]: One of my top celebrity crushes is Pastor Cal.

34:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, I have such a crush on Pastor Cal. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you're interested in, and so does my sister. [SPEAKER_00]: I bought my sister, Pastor Cal's book for Christmas, so she could have set it up on her desk, so she could look at Pastor Cal. [SPEAKER_00]: I'd go for that man.

34:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think Sean is anywhere close to the level of Pastor Cal, but I do think Sean's a perfectly attractive guy. [SPEAKER_00]: And like, I have, I'm 55, and I had a boyfriend for six years that was five sex. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not a, I don't like, like sort of, I have two very tall kids.

34:41 [SPEAKER_00]: My ex-husband is very tall, but I have a little bit of a problem with women who are so, like, I'm not going to go under this height, or I'm not, I like the whole thing about the money we can talk about that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought Nicky was incredibly demanding, and I do think that that was the wound.

34:58 [SPEAKER_00]: That was the kind of primal wound in their relationship, was that hurt. [SPEAKER_00]: completely disgusted by his appearance at the wedding. [SPEAKER_01]: So can I confirm when you see she was demanding in what way, in like her requirements for a guy? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I just think it's you're not going to get the best outcome if you have like an income requirement and a height requirement and to this requirement.

35:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I think most dating coaches would say [SPEAKER_00]: you're going to have more success when you can be a little bit more expansive in what you're open to. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's sort of what I mean. [SPEAKER_01]: And I also think and maintain this maybe because I come from an academic background.

35:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I think if you say you need your partner to make $250,000 minimally, you're eliminating a huge group of amazing men. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, he has no one in academia, unless you're an icon professor or very famous law professor is making anywhere close to that amount of money. [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm just telling you like this is from my experience.

36:06 [SPEAKER_00]: My mother represents a lot of very well-known eminent, amazing brilliant writers. [SPEAKER_00]: So then wouldn't say they made $250,000 a year if you work at a non-profit, if you work in a museum, if you're a politician. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Those politicians don't make that level of money.

36:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just think, not that we necessarily would want to date politicians, but they don't want to date. [SPEAKER_00]: But I just feel like if I were Nicki's friends, I would encourage her if she really wants an intellectual equal. [SPEAKER_00]: Right, you're going to be eliminating a huge proportion like anybody who works for a magazine on any high school teacher that could be extremely smart and a wonderful guy I just think you're eliminating so many people and I want Nikki to find somebody because she is an incredible person and so many ways.

36:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And the hype thing, I mean, I didn't think I could do it either, Tane, and I could. [SPEAKER_00]: Why don't you hide it with a right person? [SPEAKER_00]: I just, I believe in like being a little bit more acumenical, a little bit more inclusive to what you want. [SPEAKER_01]: That's, and I do so.

37:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, because she's very demanding, she has. [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say, okay, so I think I disagree with you there. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think she was demanding. [SPEAKER_01]: I think in the wrong place, she's not gonna find that on a show, on Marita for site, right?

37:21 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think that she did acquiesce to it. [SPEAKER_01]: Like she agreed, I don't, I want to talk or something that is my preference, but I don't mind getting so much shorter as long as they have other qualities. [SPEAKER_01]: I did. [SPEAKER_01]: The problem was Sean did not have those other qualities.

37:35 [SPEAKER_01]: If he did, I think she could have gotten over the height. [SPEAKER_01]: In terms of the money, because I did have a guess who had that same argument. [SPEAKER_01]: And my argument is like, unfortunately, a lot of people are in countermen who don't know how to deal with women who make more money.

37:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's just not wanting to deal with that at all. [SPEAKER_01]: And let's just be in the same thing because it's going to be a thing over and over. [SPEAKER_01]: And even if it's not that kind of money, the same thing with Michelle from [SPEAKER_01]: Season 18 where she was wanting someone that finances and all that then it becomes a whole lifestyle thing and then it became a big deal on that Maybe it's just not wanting to deal with that at all, especially at her age like I'm not building like if I'm gonna be at this age And you're gonna give me somebody my age bracket.

38:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have time to build I'm here to just meet someone who's already established so I do think she was well We didn't her right to ask but I think she needs to know that the chances of finding that on married after a site [SPEAKER_01]: is going to be a whole different bowl. [SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, I agree with you.

38:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And my comment is coming from a place of like empathy for her in the sense that I was, I dated in my 40s, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I got divorced and I was dating in my 40s. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I, I am somebody who has never really cared about the income. [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

38:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've dated some people who make much less, and they're fine with that. [SPEAKER_00]: And I've dated some who make much less, and they're not fine with that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I wouldn't want her to lock into assuming that every man would have a problem with it because obviously Cameron doesn't have a problem with it with with Michelle, you know, he expressed it a little bit, but then he got over it quickly, however, Sean certainly has to problem with it and she was right about that is Sean is all about and it kind of reminds me of a catch a little bit.

39:16 [SPEAKER_00]: the way he was when he saw the apartment, remember, and then he said, like, nagging her, because she was so much more successful. [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, I feel like Sean is basically all season, um, ingratiating, and then nagging. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, he's he's trying to make seem like he's so easy.

39:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is also, you know, we got the vibes going. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a intelligent guy. [SPEAKER_00]: And I support you when you're a queen, Nicky. [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, he's like pulling the throne out from under the queen constantly. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that is her whole their whole relationship was pushing pool and if you guys remember the last time they saw each other when they separated it was a fight because that's just what they do all the time all that fight was so awful It when he said give me a feeling where I was like I would be out of there [SPEAKER_00]: That was annoying, but she said Michelle said she should have said, Oh, how about pissed?

40:09 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a feeling, Bert. [SPEAKER_01]: That is a feeling. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my God. [SPEAKER_01]: But they start decision day with her apologizing and she says I want to apologize for any time that I meet you feeling seen, unheard, unappreciated or rejected. [SPEAKER_01]: and she said she had something that she wanted to read and I'm like oh we're reading something and decision-day that is not good and then she says I wanted a space to be real with you and then she talks about the times that he disappointed her that you know her word his words made her feel small of course the tenancy adult seven in New York jokes the jabs and it was a reminder that the space between them was not safe and

40:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And the push-and-pool, you know, left her of balance, then he'll apologize and he'll do it again. [SPEAKER_01]: She said she's so growth in both of them and she's grateful. [SPEAKER_01]: And Sean says like in the past, he's giving up, but he held back on things that he didn't like. [SPEAKER_01]: But then he brings up the seven again, says like he was right after you grab my belly.

41:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how many times he can [SPEAKER_01]: but on decision day and like guys, you ended the last conversation saying, he apologized, you said, we're all good, it's fine. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so to bring it up again, I'm just like, he says that she's selling the story like a victim and she always does that and that's what she did and it's her constant character assassination on him that he does not like.

41:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Tane, I wrote down jokes and jabs and quotes. [SPEAKER_00]: That was a title of a podcast and jokes and jabs. [SPEAKER_00]: And it was so funny, too, because they kept, it was one of, I really do think you're right. [SPEAKER_00]: It was one of the terraces in the building. [SPEAKER_00]: But there was this weird, did you notice these like, calls with fire?

41:48 [SPEAKER_00]: in this little on eaters, and I was like, which one of them is gonna end up in the cold first. [SPEAKER_00]: And then he was like, can I hug you? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, she was being a little cold with him. [SPEAKER_00]: And he said, yeah, hug you, like a normal person. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, there was a job right there.

42:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Like he's basically saying, you're not acting normal. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not acting normal and cool. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm asking you for a hug. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, you two are just, [SPEAKER_00]: He's more insufferable than she is, but they're dynamic. [SPEAKER_00]: This is no toxic.

42:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And when he's like, you always tell the story in a way that you are the victim. [SPEAKER_00]: But you don't give context. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, but you also tell the story in a way that you are the victim. [SPEAKER_00]: And like in that fight, I was just re-listening to you and Michelle talking about that last fight.

42:34 [SPEAKER_00]: He was all him, she's been the problem in a number of times, but that fight, it was just one nasty condescending thing after other don't don't raise your tone with me. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I want it hurt for older tone was me. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So I guess what are you going to call me after?

42:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And he started it. [SPEAKER_01]: He told her, like, you know, I'm going to destroy that. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god. [SPEAKER_00]: It was, but that BDSM scene with them. [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to have an opportunity to say he was doing some real extreme things and I was like that her out of here.

43:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I felt an and mutual a mutual masturbation gate. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a wise podcast, do I know what it's like, it was so disgusting. [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, he was talking about sexuality and intimacy with his corporate speed. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I really like to, here's a negotiation for some mutual situation.

43:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to stay calm. [SPEAKER_00]: I would have, I would not have been able to stay in the apartment. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how she did it. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't really don't. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how she did that. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in this, what is the jabs and jokes segment?

43:42 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm going to call it. [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, I mean, I truly, you know, he tells her that he she doesn't know how to control her emotions. [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, if I go crazy, you go crazy. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, is this decision a day or is this a roast?

43:56 [SPEAKER_01]: What is happening here? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, she's dead. [SPEAKER_01]: His emotional space was devoid and she sees it as a flaw. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, wait, wait, wait. [SPEAKER_01]: He interrupt her and then he laughs and she's like, emotion is a spectrum. [SPEAKER_01]: You're at the bottom.

44:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and then he's like, I experienced you as a chaotic ticking time bomb because I'm like, what is going on? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's not funny, but she goes, because you're emotionally void, there's a hurt person inside of you, and that person has produced the man that you are today. [SPEAKER_00]: To me, I kept thinking, okay, Nikki, just control it, you don't need to say it.

44:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, she was jobbing a little bit too much at him. [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted her to be a little bit more like, [SPEAKER_00]: When she said emotion is devoid for you and then she said there's a hurt person inside of you when he was like right there's unhealed parts of all of us and then he said something about you to just know now you're attacking me for lacking he will she just said that emotion was devoid for him so yeah they're both attacking each other well.

44:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Just to provide context and I think it's like I said for a well-educated man he doesn't know how to say things and I know that he's always retaliating but he was talking about, um, oh wait, she said that producer man that you are today but when that person shows up in a relationship with a wife it feels like going to combat.

45:16 [SPEAKER_01]: then he has to retaliate so then he says well I talked about wanting to know your family you never follow through and it was concerning not knowing you're upbringing if you know Sean you know that's a job and in how that shows that there's nutty enough emotional awareness or intelligence and that's when she says oh now you're insulting my intelligence and then he does that thing where he's so calm and he's like can I speak?

45:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Can I speak? [SPEAKER_01]: Let me finish. [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't interrupt you once. [SPEAKER_01]: Can I speak? [SPEAKER_01]: She was like, yes, but you just hurled an insult at me. [SPEAKER_01]: Can I speak? [SPEAKER_01]: That's like, yeah, it's not that you said I didn't have eat you and you're critiquing me and she's like, you need to take accountability for the flaws in you that run so deep.

46:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, you guys, if you guys had knives, everyone would be bleeding [SPEAKER_00]: And you remember when he said, I think of the evaluation, you're not a therapist or a psychologist. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, count one of the parts of that sentence, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Or half of that.

46:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Because if you say, I think if the evaluation, and then you say, you're not a therapist, you're basically admitting that you're being passed across them and that's another job. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's their love language. [SPEAKER_01]: Passive regressive is their love language. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's part of what got them, do you think that's part [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the thing, these two are not, okay, I'm gonna contradict myself.

46:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanna say they're compatible, but Loki, I don't know if they're copyrighted, that's the word. [SPEAKER_01]: I think the problem is they're too much alike. [SPEAKER_00]: I think they're too much alike, they're too much alike. [SPEAKER_01]: They're too much alike. [SPEAKER_01]: The things that they don't like about the other is the thing that they're guilty of.

46:58 [SPEAKER_00]: 10? [SPEAKER_00]: You just, that is exquisitely said, half of what Sean says about Nicky, I'm like, half of it is just absurd. [SPEAKER_00]: And the other half of it is you're describing your own qualities and you're injecting them onto her. [SPEAKER_00]: She does have them. [SPEAKER_00]: Also, the two of you are both, you need to be, have the last word.

47:18 [SPEAKER_00]: They both need to have the last word. [SPEAKER_00]: They're both used to being the kind of [SPEAKER_00]: I, and you know, the rest of the cast doubted them, you know, when they would have the dinner, or something, they would say, oh, sparks are flying and everything's going great. [SPEAKER_00]: And, and everybody else in the cast is like, this is ridiculous.

47:37 [SPEAKER_00]: There's not something you do, even Belle was saying to Nicky, I don't buy this, like you can miss. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we could fake all of that. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to give her the benefit of the jout. [SPEAKER_00]: I think they were acting because if they were acting, and they made a decision like think about like, gene-unclint.

47:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got a feeling that they basically decided they're not going to be together, but this sort of act. [SPEAKER_00]: did their way through to the end and got along. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think this was acting. [SPEAKER_00]: I think there was something we're activating and triggering each other.

48:07 [SPEAKER_00]: They were attracted to qualities in each other. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but it just, it just couldn't work. [SPEAKER_01]: Every time they made progress, they hit a line line that just blew them up again, and they had to start over from scratch. [SPEAKER_01]: And after a while, so many injuries, it's just not, it's not going to work anymore.

48:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I agree. [SPEAKER_00]: They were bleeding out in front of me. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I agree. [SPEAKER_00]: I agree. [SPEAKER_00]: It was very sad actually. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I do think it's sad that there's been all this publicity about Sean like losing his job.

48:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't know, should he lose his job over the what he's done on the show? [SPEAKER_00]: It just seems like, is it because of the show? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it was confirmed. [SPEAKER_01]: I know you put out a thing, but it was very vague. [SPEAKER_01]: It was a very vague.

48:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that book, that book though, oh my god, 10, 10, 10, 10. [SPEAKER_00]: I was wanting to give this man the benefit of the doubt. [SPEAKER_00]: And then, as you said, written with a, I mean, obviously the announcement was clearly a, the graphic was a, I, [SPEAKER_00]: And this man, I mean, I just hope he's going to be okay.

49:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I think Nikki is going to be just fine. [SPEAKER_00]: I think she's going to get a lot of guys after her. [SPEAKER_00]: She is beautiful. [SPEAKER_00]: She, when he said this man has it when she said like this man has a PhD in delusion and I know what drives his behavior, but it doesn't excuse his behavior.

49:23 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and and and then she walked off and I wrote down Nikki's pink tail flying in the wind. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, she had like the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, yeah, we think that the show gave them those furs every one of the women had a firm. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so.

49:37 [SPEAKER_00]: What the, they, they all, they, I think they all got their own, you know, clothing and all that's great sense of style. [SPEAKER_00]: I have to share this. [SPEAKER_01]: She does, she does, but she's going to be fine. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know about Sean. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be following up.

49:52 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see what happens. [SPEAKER_01]: But just in case it wasn't clear, she says my decision is to get in divorce. [SPEAKER_01]: You provide me no emotional safety, no harmony, no consistency. [SPEAKER_01]: He says I'm choosing to get divorced from you today. [SPEAKER_01]: You have not shown up for me and that's it.

50:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So, bye bye. [SPEAKER_01]: She says goodbye, Sean. [SPEAKER_01]: Also, that's it. [SPEAKER_01]: I think our final couple was Marissa, no, that's Marissa and Adam and then Michelle and Cameron. [SPEAKER_01]: So Marissa and Adam, they saved the best of the last. [SPEAKER_01]: The Etfus says like, you know, they have no idea how this is going to go pass this concern.

50:28 [SPEAKER_01]: You should keep up in the marriage and they, I was wondering where they all changed because you know, one person moved out of there, but each person's a bathroom, it kind of seemed the same. [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe it was a different apartment, but the same complex or they just got them over till room.

50:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not quite sure. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. [SPEAKER_01]: So my recent mention is now this was a doozy because I think they were just trying to throw us off the scent. [SPEAKER_01]: She said she mentioned she started to fall in love with him and can't cool. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, I was like, what?

50:57 [SPEAKER_01]: He says like she takes some of the edge off of it that he feels loved around her and he says he doesn't know if they'll be happy in a compromised lifestyle. [SPEAKER_01]: I think he used the word wrong because compromised lifestyle sounds different but I think he means like one person will be compromising.

51:13 [SPEAKER_01]: not, like, compromise like, right, right, right, it's not exactly exactly exactly exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: So he tells the experts that he's nervous, he could make the wrong decision, which just spells or no to me, but I don't, I don't know what that means, but he says that she could do the love of his life for their large areas of disconnect.

51:31 [SPEAKER_01]: She says she's excited to go see Adam because it's going to be a good day. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm thinking we're headed for a yes. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought so too. [SPEAKER_00]: I was really, I have to say Marissa. [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, she surprised to me. [SPEAKER_00]: And I know the internet is on fire cheering for her.

51:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was a little, if I were at him, I'd feel a bit blindsided. [SPEAKER_00]: I have to say. [SPEAKER_00]: I think there was a lot that she was keeping from him all along the way, and I understand why, but I feel like it, and even as they were talking, and then my vibe was once they saw each other and they started talking, there was a lot of teariness for both of them.

52:14 [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of tearing up, a lot of kind of choking over the words. [SPEAKER_00]: And I felt, which is sort of what I felt all along. [SPEAKER_00]: This is like a real life dating relationship. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a great relationship, but it's not the relationship. [SPEAKER_00]: It works in a lot of ways, but it's not going to be your ultimate person, because there's just too much incompatibility.

52:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, between the two of them. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's so hard to break up with somebody that you have a good time with, that you enjoy, that you like, that you get along with, that you don't have any like very negative things to say about them. [SPEAKER_00]: That's where I felt like it was going.

52:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it was like, Marissa just, as you said, like, it totally pivoted when she was like, yeah, I was in love with you and then how upset she was when she was like, I was miserable. [SPEAKER_00]: I was lonely. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what did you think about that? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I, if I were him, he obviously seemed completely shocked, which he started pulling that out.

53:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I do want to go back to just mention that Adam was underdressed, shockingly because of his hair. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'd landish the whole time, but he showed up in like sneakers. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, there's like joggers and stuff and I'm like, okay, but um, so random also like she looked really nice, but she had her purse.

53:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I just wish you could do with her purse. [SPEAKER_01]: Does any of them, I have noticing the purse. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, she looks like she's going to like some formal party where she's going to have to redo or lipstick at some point. [SPEAKER_00]: It was, they looked so incompatible.

53:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but they haven't throughout the season, but in this thing, they did. [SPEAKER_00]: They looked so incompatible. [SPEAKER_01]: They were going to two different events. [SPEAKER_01]: But she told us, right, that she started to fall in love with him and can't cool. [SPEAKER_01]: But she actually tells him that she first thought the words I love you and can't cool.

53:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just didn't see anything because I thought it was too soon and I thought it was real. [SPEAKER_01]: And Adam is like, oh, well said. [SPEAKER_00]: He said, you are absolutely fine, and then he changed her to a vibe and a half. [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, to be fair, he did write stuff for her on paper.

54:12 [SPEAKER_01]: He wrote things down. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's tearing up while reading it. [SPEAKER_01]: And she's like also saying, well said, she's concerned. [SPEAKER_01]: And then she moves to concerns. [SPEAKER_01]: She said she's concerned about his intensity and when he realized she was in a pro, he says, well, I have all in our out person addictive personality.

54:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So I just need someone like that. [SPEAKER_01]: And she says like they have so much in common, but the way that he wrote her off because of one bad day that it wasn't that. [SPEAKER_01]: And then he randomly mentions, I guess we didn't see this that on wedding night that it wasn't that one bad day that on wedding night, she said she has [SPEAKER_01]: That kind of threw me off and we're like, wait, what?

54:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And she was like, you didn't even ask what night like met to me. [SPEAKER_01]: Like he just assumed that he met like going to the bars like you go to shows like what do you mean? [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, I thought nightlife was like Miami and drinking. [SPEAKER_01]: And she was like, and you're just bringing that up now.

55:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And [SPEAKER_00]: That was very weird. [SPEAKER_00]: That reminded me. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I will say that Adam in the first episode. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought he was so gross. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like he and I thought it would never work. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought he was so rich and remember when she gifted in the shot.

55:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and he said that he called it a red flag. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, he gave it a new shot. [SPEAKER_00]: That's in line with what we're hearing now about his that he was anxious about being with somebody who was into the drinking lifestyle because he was very committed to his sobriety. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

55:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So that kind of reminded me of that, but I don't think I honestly do not think that he wrote, I mean, we know that he could write her off because we saw him in the confessional, we saw him with the experts, I genuinely believe he was torn with her. [SPEAKER_00]: but there was just some things that we're not gonna work.

55:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And he seemed, I mean, many, many, many interviews with him alone, he seemed, I think he was completely thrown off when she started going hard at him in this conversation. [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, sorry, can we argue that, [SPEAKER_01]: He was, but that was because she was going along with things.

56:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Like he wasn't experiencing her true self. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, great. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he absolutely was not experiencing her true self. [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't want to criticize her. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is part of her growth, part of her growth. [SPEAKER_00]: And this process is learning that, you know, brooding on things.

56:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And the experts all along tried to get her. [SPEAKER_00]: to say or to him about what she wanted. [SPEAKER_00]: I think what she's going to take away from this process is that it's fair for him to feel a bit blindsided when all the suddenly comes out and she has been going along all along the way.

56:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, on the other hand, and it's good for her to learn that if you don't want somebody to feel blindsided and if you, you know, it would have just ended the relationship sooner because I don't think they would have been able to work out these different situations. [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe it was better just they had it but it did make me sad.

57:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I just felt like she was going there and I've heard that she goes even harder out of him at the reunion She genuinely wanted to be friends with her. [SPEAKER_00]: I think he genuinely values a lot of things about her to your point. [SPEAKER_00]: I think he gave her a lot of very specific compliments [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, akin to Maca with Bell, um, and when she said it's hard to see him cry, but it's also nice to see him cry, because he cares.

57:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think they both surprised each other a little bit in this breakup. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think she realized how much he cared, and I think he had no idea that she was having that she was miserable. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that was a very strong word to you. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it is a very strong word, but let me read what she said, because it just accumulates to how she ended it, where she said, I learned she said the one vow I didn't keep from her wedding was honesty.

58:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I did admit how lonely the marriage was, how miserable I've been. [SPEAKER_01]: She learned that he is not the type to compromise, and that made it easier to let him go. [SPEAKER_01]: And she knew it wouldn't work. [SPEAKER_01]: The moment she started to fix herself to be loved by him.

58:15 [SPEAKER_01]: She said in a little bit more things, which she just basically ended it by saying, so here I am, full sending it to a no. [SPEAKER_01]: Perfection, as far as I'm concerned. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: When he said it was a very close match, but not a perfect match, that's kind of how I saw it.

58:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I would never be able to be with somebody like him. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think it wasn't the right match. [SPEAKER_00]: I think, and then when she said later on at the end of the episode, they flash back and they did a little bit. [SPEAKER_00]: And she said, I don't jet ski. [SPEAKER_00]: I go in yacht.

58:51 [UNKNOWN]: right. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: That seemed like a bit of a joke and a job. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: That was a job. [SPEAKER_01]: Did there ever be so? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And just put me on a yacht. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think the thing with them is I don't necessarily think it was like a bag match.

59:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the thing is a lot of the times these people go into this expecting the woman to change, not knowing that they have to do some bending to. [SPEAKER_01]: and if Adam had been compromising, I think there might have been a chance, but she's absolutely right. [SPEAKER_01]: If you're going to be in a partnership, whether or not it's romantic or not.

59:23 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're in a partnership, a friendship, whatever, and the other person is just inflexible, absolutely not. [SPEAKER_01]: It is not sustainable. [SPEAKER_01]: So she realized that, thank God, that she can't be the one that's just going to keep bending. [SPEAKER_01]: But if he had made that discovery, if he had had some breakthrough and was like, you know what, I could be flexible.

59:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I could tap into my emotions. [SPEAKER_01]: That's a whole other part. [SPEAKER_01]: We haven't even got into that. [SPEAKER_00]: That's 10. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the biggest part because he was starting to be more flexible actually in terms of the living. [SPEAKER_00]: Remember in the last episode he was saying, I maybe I don't have to keep this place and I could move into the city with you.

1:00:01 [SPEAKER_00]: He was sort of talking that way, but it's that obsessive. [SPEAKER_00]: I would describe it almost as addictive, compulsive need for intensity in his life. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right, right, he and and you're who are you going to find who's going to play pickle ball with you. [SPEAKER_00]: Was it three hours a day five days a week and they and I absolutely agree with the girls.

1:00:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I think was Michelle, who said, Why does why do you have to require your partner to share this hobby with you? [SPEAKER_00]: That's ridiculous. [SPEAKER_00]: Find a pickle ball league. [SPEAKER_00]: Go out with your rows and play pickle ball. [SPEAKER_00]: That's perfectly fine. [SPEAKER_00]: Why does a couple have to do everything together?

1:00:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't have the range or the energy to delve into it, but for me, there's some kind of need for control there. [SPEAKER_00]: I agree. [SPEAKER_00]: I agree. [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's an anxious. [SPEAKER_00]: There's an anxiety in him, probably related to his childhood, and this is the way that he feels alive and in control.

1:01:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But I guess the part of it that just made me sad was, [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's absolutely, I just don't think that he was malicious with her. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that he was manipulating her. [SPEAKER_00]: I think this was a situation where it was great until it wasn't because they were just underlying differences.

1:01:30 [SPEAKER_01]: He is not ready to have a real mature relationship in less he finds a pickle balladic to want to go out and play with them. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, but I don't think he's a bad person and I don't think he treated her badly. [SPEAKER_00]: I just think that it did not it was not and and it also it worked with them because she was quiet.

1:01:52 [SPEAKER_00]: and didn't speak up, but it harmed her that she was quiet and didn't speak up. [SPEAKER_00]: If that was sad, do you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: So that's not a good dynamic for her to be in. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because people were just not ready for like a long-term serious talent really Caitlin Caitlin is not ready at all, it's not ready at all.

1:02:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not just the men. [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't want to say it's just the men. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So he says like it was sad that they broke up like, you know, he hates that she that he hurt her and he said it would have been easy to stay married and send it for five years and it would be fun.

1:02:27 [SPEAKER_01]: But then he says he was leaning to a no. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, a lot of people seem to think that he was going to say yes, but because she said no, he changed his mind, but I think he was going to say no anyways. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I think he was going to say no. [SPEAKER_00]: That's why it was bitter sweet all throughout the conversation.

1:02:41 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why he was cheering because he knew I really liked this person, but this is not going to work. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So he got our gift and he got our ice cream maker. [SPEAKER_01]: He tells her that he could make a protein ice cream and you know, it was a game changer for him.

1:02:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I think when he said this is a close match but not a perfect match. [SPEAKER_01]: That was the first time I was like, are you going to see my perfect match? [SPEAKER_01]: Is this a hit? [SPEAKER_01]: But two different networks. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see.

1:03:10 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see any tingles, but the round-up there segment because she says she doesn't want to repeat the story like her mom who stayed in a marriage where she did not need to be in and it takes strength to ask for a divorce especially when you have feelings for the person. [SPEAKER_01]: So good for her.

1:03:26 [SPEAKER_01]: That was a very good point. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what made it sad. [SPEAKER_00]: They do feelings for each other, but it's not going to work. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not good for either of them. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: So let's round it out with the golden couple of the season which is Michelle and Cameron.

1:03:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I think everybody predicted that they were both going to say yes. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was not a surprise how this went. [SPEAKER_01]: They actually get an actual location and it happened to be where they got married, which should have been a big giveaway that they were going to say yes guys.

1:03:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So, she says very nice things about him as she has all season, wanting to be his writer die and that he's someone everyone looks up to including her and then she tears up and you know that when Michelle tears up, Cameron tears up. [SPEAKER_01]: So, he says the same thing, he says how comfortable he's been with her and they've talked about his fears about getting married and he still worries about it.

1:04:21 [SPEAKER_01]: But I have to say though, poor Michelle, because he's so tall. [SPEAKER_01]: She has to keep looking up. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm not going to take my neck was hurting the whole time. [SPEAKER_00]: It was nothing. [SPEAKER_00]: I was actually crying because I really loved these two. [SPEAKER_00]: And they made me cry.

1:04:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I have some favorite reality TV couples. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: They can Christine from the last season of Love Is Blind. [SPEAKER_00]: They made me cry. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It's hard. [SPEAKER_00]: Woody and Amani. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought this was so touching and moving.

1:04:46 [SPEAKER_00]: But I was like holding my neck in one hand and wiping tears away. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like this. [SPEAKER_00]: And I have to tell you Jane, so in the very beginning of the season, I started falling Michelle and I DMed a little bit with her and I told her that I loved her in camera and together and she harder than I was like, oh, okay, I think this is going well and I just I think they're just.

1:05:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Perfect for each other. [SPEAKER_00]: I honestly do. [SPEAKER_00]: I think he is a, he is a very good person and so is she. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think she made him feel safe enough that he could stop up and become that mature partner in a relationship. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I need to put in a total of some sense.

1:05:39 [SPEAKER_01]: You agree? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yes, yes. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we dipped for a little in attractiveness and maps, but I will say, like, coming from a lot of the seasons, yes, they do have a good bunch. [SPEAKER_00]: And he has a very handsome guy. [SPEAKER_00]: I, a very handsome guy. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

1:05:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, who's your most handsome of all time? [SPEAKER_01]: Would you say of all times? [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: It's Keith from Charlottes. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my god. [SPEAKER_01]: I never hesitate with that answer. [SPEAKER_00]: It's all Keith Keith and Iris. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah Beautiful boy.

1:06:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, oh, but he's a model, right? [SPEAKER_00]: I think he is a model. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's kind of [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: He just goes around. [SPEAKER_00]: He goes between LA and Charlotte, but yeah, that was that was a wow, that was a messed up relationship. [SPEAKER_00]: But on in any case, this was so beautiful, so moving, proud to say I love you, proud to let everyone know I love you.

1:06:32 [SPEAKER_00]: She said she was scared to tell him that she loved him because she thought it was too early. [SPEAKER_00]: And he's never, and then it was so [SPEAKER_01]: You're my first and last long-term relationship, but it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not

1:07:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I wrote it down. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, good advice for all of them. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: And especially doing it unprompted. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not to use a buzz word of the season. [SPEAKER_00]: Not perform it. [SPEAKER_01]: Not performing it. [SPEAKER_01]: She says she says she was embarrassed, but that she's proud to love him and she's proud to let everyone know that, you know, she loves him.

1:07:27 [SPEAKER_01]: He says he wants many years of prize and laughs with her. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's choosing to say married. [SPEAKER_01]: He loves her too. [SPEAKER_01]: She says she loves him so much, I like his better with him in it, and she has to say yes. [SPEAKER_01]: And it has James Arthur playing in the background.

1:07:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like the perfect song and he got her fairytale ending and listen. [SPEAKER_01]: reiterating that Michelle and Cameron have been the golden couple. [SPEAKER_01]: Again, my criticism of them was ever like events that had happened during the dinner party or, you know, feeling better than the couples and choices that were made, but not about their love story.

1:08:03 [SPEAKER_01]: They went through things and they talked things out and they worked through things. [SPEAKER_01]: I wish they showed us more of that with the experts, but they made it through and they got at least one yes. [SPEAKER_01]: from this season. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they got at least, and this is a guess for life.

1:08:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I really think I think this is a guess for like, and I agree with you, Tina. [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, when they would start to speak up with these dinners and say things, when Karen said that thing about the whole side of the table shouldn't get married, [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if that's a lot, that's a lot, I was like, no, no, no, no, no, like be quiet and happy and secure in your love, but it's such a bad look to seem kind of I think you use the word at some point like a little complacent, a little smug, it comes off as a little kind of setting I truly don't think their intentions are bad.

1:08:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if that was produced or is pushing them to do that. [SPEAKER_01]: That's true. [SPEAKER_01]: That's true. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I know that's there, but we can only speak about the things that, you know, we're watching. [SPEAKER_01]: So the same things that we call out for other people, which just, you know, what it was, but I'll do a quick roundup of the aftermath.

1:09:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wait. [SPEAKER_01]: Did you have anything more from Michelle and Cameron. [SPEAKER_00]: Just to them guys. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so happy for you. [SPEAKER_00]: I hope you're listening to this. [SPEAKER_01]: So the aftermath for them was that Felipe says like he's marriage day was it's funny.

1:09:18 [SPEAKER_01]: He said marriage day. [SPEAKER_01]: His marriage day was one of the best days of his life. [SPEAKER_01]: And decision day was one of the worst. [SPEAKER_01]: Tori says like she knows her worth and learning to trust her intuition. [SPEAKER_01]: Nikki says she gave every ounce she could mustard.

1:09:33 [SPEAKER_01]: She's disappointed, which is proud of how she showed up. [SPEAKER_01]: Sean says he's taking away that he's ready to be a husband and a dad. [SPEAKER_01]: But for me, I'm like Sean at 48. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you are the problem. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we should rethink some of the ways that are not working for you and how it works.

1:09:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's when she says she doesn't want to hang out, put her in a yacht, she doesn't do jet skis, mega sums up the day with the word perfect, and him and Bell Julie say this is peace and perfection, and Cameron and Michelle says everyone has been asking them already for grand babies, and they don't seem scared by it, because usually we use a babies, everyone is like, oh gosh, no, give us a few years and all that, but I think they're basically all settled, like an old married couple that they're comfortable, you know.

1:10:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's been some comfortable sitting on that swing. [SPEAKER_00]: I just have to mention one thing the chance said that I just wrote down, oh no, no, no, no, no. [SPEAKER_00]: Tane, he said, and I'm a New Yorker, and he used to be a New Yorker. [SPEAKER_00]: I think he grew up in New York.

1:10:36 [SPEAKER_00]: He said, [SPEAKER_00]: My taxi light is on, and I'm ready to pick up my passenger. [SPEAKER_00]: Ten? [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: I cringed, I screamed, I was like, oh no, sir. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe for unwittingly or inadvertently revealing a narcissistic tendency, like, why are you the taxi and your wife is your passenger?

1:10:58 [SPEAKER_00]: What is that reveal? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, I'm in a little bit faster. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And that was not well chosen. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: And Nikki's like, let that taxi just drive a right way to Queens and park in the garage and never come out again.

1:11:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Right? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow. [SPEAKER_00]: That was stunning to me. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I, you know, and I have to say about the experts, just because I have an interesting answer to talk about this with you, I was, I'm such a pastor, calendar, Dr. Pepper, I adore them both, actually sort of liked Pia by the end, um, you know, I didn't love her in the beginning, but then I actually thought she did a great job of certain couples, um, I was very skeptical of these experts, I am obsessed with Paul.

1:11:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm obsessed with him and I actually think as I'm sort of with you, I'm, I think the jury's out with you and me on paths, right? [SPEAKER_00]: We're not just the fact that we call our paths. [SPEAKER_00]: She wrote a little too hard for Courtney. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think Paul had incredibly incisive.

1:12:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I liked how rigorous he was. [SPEAKER_00]: I liked how he held people accountable. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't, well, I didn't, I do feel like that. [SPEAKER_00]: That's where it's a little unfair with Mecca at times. [SPEAKER_00]: I agreed with you about that. [SPEAKER_00]: I did. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I calling Maca Performative, but I don't know.

1:12:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, here's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: I see that. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm writing for him. [SPEAKER_01]: Then he does something stupid. [SPEAKER_01]: I know is it is it right was a valid, but then it wasn't that particular episode. [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't know what was coming.

1:12:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: So. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know.

1:12:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know.

1:12:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: No, but you're so right about that and that self-sabotaging line stuck in Belgioli's head and she sometimes used it to excuse some of the things that he said to her in other words, maybe that attraction comment or the boobs thing, maybe that was a form of self-sabotage, but it was also harmful to her.

1:13:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: Like you can understand it, but that doesn't excuse it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and we find that a lot of the season, you hear them repeating words that I've been said over in the confessional, over there, and it's worse that they're hearing over and over.

1:13:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And as you may be, in some of these things, just get stuck. [SPEAKER_01]: And it just reverberates in your brain, over here. [SPEAKER_00]: I so agree, I so agree, I really, really agree. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm wondering, do you think that did you see any matches? [SPEAKER_00]: The David Michelle of it all, right?

1:13:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And did you have any matches that you wish they had made? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, were there any couples that you thought? [SPEAKER_00]: Did you think Nick, for example, should have been paired with another woman or Dezin, paired with another woman? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: That's seeing a lot of talk about that.

1:14:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that Nick and Marissa are people who would have gotten along with anyone to be honest. [SPEAKER_01]: I agree. [SPEAKER_01]: So they could have been together. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know who Devin could have been paired with. [SPEAKER_01]: I know everyone's saying Belle. [SPEAKER_00]: I know everybody's saying Belle.

1:14:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but he said he wanted to sit me sweetly type. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, there's that. [SPEAKER_01]: But I think no, I don't think there could have been any other crossovers, but I don't know if it's [SPEAKER_01]: the side effect of knowing now of having hindsight. [SPEAKER_01]: Like now I know who they are fully, so maybe in the beginning I would have thought, but I'm not know, maybe Caitlyn and Mecca.

1:14:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Caitlyn, oh my god, Caitlyn, I was laughing so hard for sending to you talk about Caitlyn because you know, all is it really that big a deal? [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yes, it is a big deal, because Caitlyn is acting entirely different than these actions of Mecca. [SPEAKER_00]: She is radiating.

1:14:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I really into you energy. [SPEAKER_00]: I actually don't think he did that much that was problematic. [SPEAKER_00]: It was it was more for I don't think he was like I he's going to give him the necklace that was stupid. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it was so obvious in the way that she was interacting with him that she was into it.

1:15:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but he also wasn't, forget who he voted for was Caitlyn, he wasn't acting like he was a married man. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: You can't be married and keep acting like you're single because that means that you're unaware. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why he says the things that are disrespectful because you don't have that consideration that he talks about, like you have to move different.

1:15:35 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't go out there, pinky swearing, kissing fingers. [SPEAKER_01]: I know she was there, but she shouldn't have to tell you every single step of the way. [SPEAKER_01]: You shouldn't do that. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I know you mean no harm, but don't do that. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, I'm a child.

1:15:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and I think in the in the decision-day conversation, he said he didn't want her to have to be doing that. [SPEAKER_00]: He didn't want her to have to be babysitting him and kind of monitoring him and making sure that he wasn't going off the rails. [SPEAKER_00]: The problem is you cannot want her to have to do it, but then you create another situation where she has to do it.

1:16:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I get it while she's exhausted. [SPEAKER_00]: She is such a just beautiful. [SPEAKER_00]: I do like the friendships. [SPEAKER_00]: The girls seem to have really good friendships. [SPEAKER_00]: I do not understand my Courtney seems to have gotten off the hook, largely. [SPEAKER_01]: I think I think your technique was abusive.

1:16:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't understand it, I, I, I, she did get away. [SPEAKER_01]: She got a real, and she doesn't care. [SPEAKER_01]: And again, it's like, if no one's holding her accountable, she's not gonna know and everyone, if everyone's acting like it's fine, of course she's gonna be like, well, I'm fine.

1:16:37 [SPEAKER_01]: If I wasn't, they wouldn't be talking to me. [SPEAKER_01]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand that, like, especially the experts, you know, especially the experts, just when Lisa was just holding her face and kissing her goodbye and saying, oh, you're so I love you, you did so well or whatever.

1:16:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's, I think there's a way and I think Paul has a really, as a great talent for this, of holding people accountable with love. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think people accountable with compassion and explaining, you know, the other thing that I wanted to say about the difference between the old mouse and this one, I actually liked it team because I know you've been asking people that have come on, what they like about the changes, oh, and by the way Anthony and Ashley, one of my favorites of all time Anthony loves listening to you on here with him.

1:17:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I liked it that they had more couples. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought I wouldn't, but I ended up liking it. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it allowed them the freedom to have people go. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, if it wasn't working out, they could leave early whereas I feel like in previous seasons there have been some couples where it is like they're dragging themselves to the last day.

1:17:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And you don't want to watch them. [SPEAKER_00]: I do agree with you though that I think that some things that were said in group therapy were at dinner should have been kept to private therapy sessions. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was too much going after each other and being encouraged to go after each other.

1:17:54 [SPEAKER_00]: When Sean said that thing to Adam about his vocabulary, I think it was Michelle. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember who it was in your podcast. [SPEAKER_01]: It was like I hate to agree with Sean, but you know, he had a point there, but it was still just not appropriate to do that at a dinner or wherever everybody's sitting around.

1:18:10 [SPEAKER_01]: It just, it [SPEAKER_00]: It bothered me. [SPEAKER_00]: I hope every, I hope Tory comes out of this, just knowing that she did the absolute best she could. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I hope she doesn't blame herself for reconciling with Philippe. [SPEAKER_00]: Remember how we thought they were going to break up?

1:18:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: We came down stairs and he said, I think she just broke up with me. [SPEAKER_00]: And then she gave him a little bit of grace. [SPEAKER_00]: She gave him so much grace. [SPEAKER_00]: Philippe, when you were saying the person in my life needs to give me grace, I was like, [SPEAKER_01]: excuse me.

1:18:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: This is your wife. [SPEAKER_01]: She's actually given you immense grace. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Tori is a very empathetic, mature, understanding person. [SPEAKER_00]: And she did every and I feel like Belle too. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to just want to say to both Tori and Belle.

1:18:58 [SPEAKER_00]: They did everything they could, they were generous, they were kind, they were patient, they were everything that love is supposed to be, and then there's a boundary. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think that's a good thing for people to watch. [SPEAKER_00]: I think this show actually this time, there are a lot of lessons you can pull from it.

1:19:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, you got the earlier, right, give, give people a chance until you realize no it's a hard no and we're and you know I wonder what we'll have I I agree with you who's the most likely to end up on another show not Nick I think Nick is done. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think believe they are out.

1:19:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I will be on Perth match. [SPEAKER_00]: I really do. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe Tory. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, if they let them, we haven't seen a lot of crossover from Meredith for a site. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's, I'm just waiting to see how it unfolds now that it's a, it's in the end. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a popular show now.

1:19:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just curious to see if they let them go in other shows, because we don't usually don't see. [SPEAKER_00]: We don't, although we didn't use to see bachelor crossover in perfect match, and then it did because they had Rachel and they had Clayton on purpose. [SPEAKER_01]: But at least they did other shows.

1:20:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen them in like, all start short. [SPEAKER_01]: That's how Janina met her current husband and all the things, but like mass just never, ever. [SPEAKER_01]: We've never seen that we have mass from Australia. [SPEAKER_01]: We have mass from the UK and all that we've never had. [SPEAKER_01]: masks, but again, with the new move and all that, I don't know, we'll see what happens and we'll see who does to crossover.

1:20:27 [SPEAKER_01]: But that was the episode today, you know? [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, my goodness, I mean, I have to say, nothing surprised me, really, did it surprise you? [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I, and Macon, and Belgioli, I heard it all goes, goes downhill. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sad to hear that, but um, [SPEAKER_00]: have to wait until we wanted reunion to say I'm so happy for math and I do miss Pastor Kyle and Dr. Pepper, but I don't I think that these experts are well suited for the new format.

1:21:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if they match yet, they have a they have a vision for what they wanted to show to be and I think they executed that and I think is just we just have to catch up and just One last thing about the decision day. [SPEAKER_00]: Remember how all season we've been speculating about whether they've changed the format and that now they're not actually legally married.

1:21:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but they made the decision day on decision dating made it seem like they were. [SPEAKER_00]: They had to say, I want to get a divorce. [SPEAKER_00]: They do say, I'm not going to go to the next stage. [SPEAKER_00]: And there's an interview. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's in variety today with the new show runner.

1:21:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And the person says they ask a question about that and they dance around it. [SPEAKER_00]: They're not giving an answer. [SPEAKER_00]: They said they considered these marriages and these are divorces. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to look for that article to see, to see what he says.

1:21:49 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, they're never going to explicitly say, like I said, Australia never explicitly says they we just know. [SPEAKER_01]: And like I said, if they were legally like married, we it's public record. [SPEAKER_01]: It'll be out there. [SPEAKER_00]: That's fine. [SPEAKER_00]: So previously on previous seasons when there have been spoilers, the spoilers have been the divorce records.

1:22:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Not the language records. [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, because it takes a while to get divorced. [SPEAKER_01]: So when there's been spoilers, it's been the marriage, because they have to file it. [SPEAKER_01]: So past participants have said they've had to file their marriage. [SPEAKER_01]: What is it called?

1:22:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Marriage certificate? [SPEAKER_01]: Marriage license. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, marriage license. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, marriage license. [SPEAKER_01]: So they have to marriage items, so yes. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, to greater things for math. [SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait for the new season.

1:22:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so excited. [SPEAKER_00]: It's this is going to be great. [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to be in Charlotte, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they're going to be Charlotte in the next season. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So, for so long, thank you so much for joining me to tell my name, you know, they hugged you, you were amazing, you were wise, you were hilarious, you are a reader.

1:22:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I encourage everybody listening to us to go back and listen to Tain and Aids, because their podcast is incredible. [SPEAKER_00]: And I listened to a lot of these types of podcasts. [SPEAKER_00]: So, you guys, when I connected with you, I was so excited. [SPEAKER_00]: It was such an honor to be here.

1:23:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's wonderful to be here. [SPEAKER_00]: And I hope to come back. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: And to show people where they can find you on Twitter, Priscilla. [SPEAKER_00]: Gilman, Instagram, Priscilla. [SPEAKER_00]: Gilman on Facebook. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Priscilla.

1:23:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Gilman author. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's it, I'm not going to talk. [SPEAKER_01]: Not yet, Dan. [SPEAKER_01]: Not yet. [SPEAKER_01]: Neither am I. [SPEAKER_01]: Guys, you know what to find me? [SPEAKER_01]: Teen Talks on the Cross social media. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for joining me for this episode.

1:23:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Look out for the reunion recap that we'll be coming out later on in the week. [SPEAKER_01]: Until next time, guys, thank you. [SPEAKER_01]: Bye.