MAFS S20 Ep. 18: He Said What? w/Michelle from S18

[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, everybody. [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to another episode of Teen Talks. [SPEAKER_00]: I am here to talk about Marida first site. [SPEAKER_00]: Season 20, episode 18, I am 10. [SPEAKER_00]: And my guess happens to be from season 18. [SPEAKER_00]: So 18 is our lucky number today. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's Michelle.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Michelle. [SPEAKER_00]: How are you? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm good. [SPEAKER_00]: How are you? [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for having me. [SPEAKER_00]: I am glad to have you. [SPEAKER_00]: I like when I have a lumps here because you guys have insights. [SPEAKER_00]: You guys have been through it.

[SPEAKER_00]: This season is crazy and this season is different, so it'll be interesting to see what your takes and your thoughts are. [SPEAKER_00]: I saw some of them online, but before we get into it, Michelle, I have a bone to pick with you and I want everyone to hear it. [SPEAKER_00]: Your Instagram stories are not good for my wallet, okay?

[SPEAKER_00]: But those of you who don't know Michelle is always posting looks and I know everyone a lot of people do that But her looks are actually cute and I'm too busy and I'm lazy So I just click on it and I'm like, oh cute. [SPEAKER_00]: I got it. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm exposing myself Michelle is not good for my wallet.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, well it sounds good for me, so thank you so much guys, support the engagement, thank you, thank you, you really appreciate it. [SPEAKER_00]: You're welcome, but yeah, guys, if you look at first stuff, everything, she has it on there and it's linked over there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let me ask you, because this is your first time this season coming on the pod. [SPEAKER_00]: Overall, the quick summary, what are your thoughts on this season? [SPEAKER_00]: And would you want to be in this era of mass? [SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, okay, I like the new format. [SPEAKER_01]: I like the talk.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do, I'm like a little bit jealous because I feel like they've got like a bigger budget. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that makes me jealous. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_01]: I like the experts a lot better too, but I don't think. [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like they're getting a lot more publicity, which is really cool for the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I like that, but I don't necessarily know if I want to be married at first sight ever again. [SPEAKER_01]: So I think if you jealous, but I think I like it a lot so far. [SPEAKER_00]: But how do you think you would have fared knowing how? [SPEAKER_00]: The beginning of your relationship was and you had to be in a firing squad every week with the experts and your other couples also like coming at you the way they are this season.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think for me personally wouldn't have made it very long on the show now that I know that they let them go home. [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I'm not home pretty quickly. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think that's a good drama. [SPEAKER_00]: You know. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think that's the thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, again, I said this in the previous episode, a listener told me like, I just have to shift time and watching it and it's for drama, it's for entertainment. [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: good for them. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess we are entertained. [SPEAKER_00]: It is entertaining.

[SPEAKER_00]: I will give them that. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we are still at the couple's retreat guys. [SPEAKER_00]: The couple's retreat is never ending. [SPEAKER_00]: So they're still there. [SPEAKER_00]: And we it's the final morning, but Cam who's already on thin ice with me starts the episode by saying like he considered coming in and blasting shitty fucking 2,000 tens rap music.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we know he doesn't have good taste. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, [SPEAKER_00]: I like fucking 2010s rap music, guys, so we get a flashback security cam of the cast and they're having a blast, they're dancing, they're backing it up with each other, even Caitlin and Devon. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what happened, but everyone's having fun and I like seeing that, you know, we're seeing all the fights, we're seeing all that, but it was good to see that in between all of that, it was good times, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I know couples retreat was not the same for you, but uh, I'm like, couples retreat is so interesting because it just incites drama no matter what like, I don't think there's a single couples retreat that's like unfazed. [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, together in one house and drinking like something and it's also like, you know, decision days always looming so sick after it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just bound to happen. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, um, for you guys, I mean, I know that was all I remember that, but was it like limited or were you guys allowed to just drink like, yeah, even if you're allowed to do whatever you wanted, there wasn't like a limit, okay, okay, gosh, the games.

[SPEAKER_00]: alcohol, tensions, decision-day, that's all. [SPEAKER_01]: And like the games too are so funny because obviously like those questions are planted in the bull. [SPEAKER_01]: Like they want that, the producers want that out of you. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's so like, like, I remember like, like, oh, like everyone can write down a couple of questions like when I was doing it in the bull.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, no, those were all questions, no, no, no, no, no. [SPEAKER_00]: Well yeah, I mean it works for them. [SPEAKER_00]: The producers really earned their paycheck, you know, every time they do this. [SPEAKER_00]: Don't ask me what Adam was doing on the floor, but it was hilarious. [SPEAKER_00]: Like when they were dancing, I think he was on all fours down on the floor, just backing it up against Marissa.

[SPEAKER_00]: So again, we're back to the morning and Mecca and Belle come into the kitchen and the vibe just changes. [SPEAKER_00]: It just becomes warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm warm

[SPEAKER_00]: and Cam is like, is everyone okay? [SPEAKER_00]: awkward silence and Devon says, yeah, I mean, Kate, we're calling it. [SPEAKER_00]: That's it. [SPEAKER_00]: We're not staying together. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay, we're to rip the band aid, but Nicky's not there. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like Wes Nikki, like everyone's not there to hear this news.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mekka asks, why are you breaking up? [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, we don't see eye to eye. [SPEAKER_00]: We have bad communication. [SPEAKER_00]: We have a power struggle. [SPEAKER_00]: We are toxic and it's emotionally draining. [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to ask you, like, just in general, what are your thoughts on Caitlyn and Devon's relationship?

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I mean, I don't think she ever liked them. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I think she was trying really hard to get there. [SPEAKER_01]: But I also think she kind of kept moving the goal post for him to get there. [SPEAKER_01]: And I just don't think he was, it was never going to happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: I even like, you know, like, when she was like, I was giving him all these signs. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, be physical with me. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you were like scratching his back as like, let's go for it. [SPEAKER_01]: I like agree with him in that sense. [SPEAKER_01]: She was kind of finding, trying to do that, but really like, it was never gonna happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think in the back of her mind, like she was like, oh, now he's showering. [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't wanna be physical with me. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I thought like she was looking for her way out a little bit. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I agree with you, because I was like, I would never have known that that was a sign because then that when you were giving me a sign when he was putting the chain on you.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that if we hadn't seen her reaction, [SPEAKER_00]: to Mecca in different occasions where her eyes shine bright, she was a completely different person. [SPEAKER_00]: Then we wouldn't have anything to compare it to, and I'm like, okay, and the cameras were there. [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's also funny because we don't see them really interact with each other. [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like this was that retreat was the first time you see each, [SPEAKER_01]: because all of the group dinners are group therapy, but it's never been like we're like, Mecca and Caitlyn have a conversation.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've never seen that interaction between the couple. [SPEAKER_01]: So that was really interesting to me to see how everyone interacted with each other. [SPEAKER_01]: Even like there's no boy's nights or girls' nights. [SPEAKER_01]: So we've get a lot of that this season of kind of like what they're thinking.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and the individual relationships, because there's a lot of group hangouts going on. [SPEAKER_00]: So Caitlyn was like, she's just tired. [SPEAKER_00]: All they do is bicker. [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought the guys just had a conversation about being considerate about when they make their jokes and the partners, but then Cameron is like, well, I heard the rumors that you wanted to couple swap last night.

[SPEAKER_00]: He says that's to make it. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, Belgian Lee's right there. [SPEAKER_00]: What are we doing? [SPEAKER_00]: instigating, but she's been through enough. [SPEAKER_01]: And the producers plant, like, he's always just like stirring the profit because I'm like, what? [SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't think he talked a lot in the, the first half.

[SPEAKER_01]: And now all of a sudden, he's just always poking. [SPEAKER_00]: it's his alter ego coach cam comes alive with the with the couples at the group dinners he comes alive well I think he's like well with a golden couple so we can say whatever we like so yeah I think he definitely feels entitled a little bit because his relationship is working out and I don't think it's a good look for him and I do think he's like a genuine nice guy but it does not off at all [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: Between him and Adam, I think they were both the insigators, the scouples of the street. [SPEAKER_00]: So Belle put her head in her hands, basically like not this shit again. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, are we in a go through this? [SPEAKER_00]: Again, mecha says that's crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: And Cam was like, well, if you didn't want to swap, why did I hear you yapping about it?

[SPEAKER_00]: And in a confessional, mecha says, Caitlyn is a really, really, really good friend. [SPEAKER_00]: the producer asked them a question, like, what's going on between Caitlin or something to that effect? [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, I had a great time, but it seems like I had a great time at the expense of other people, and I'm like, I can't.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I also, like, but it was, I think he meant that, like, he had [SPEAKER_01]: at the expense of Devon. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't even know if he was thinking about Bella's kind of how I took it, sadly, because I just feel like he, she's always like an afterthought to happen. [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like, you know, makes me sick.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like he only said that because Devon, he felt like Devon was mad at him. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true, and he's always thinking who's mad at me. [SPEAKER_00]: And then that was it. [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't get anything else. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just confused because, [SPEAKER_00]: The whole group is there in the kitchen, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Besides Nicky, and we don't get a peep from who I call St. Michelle or St. Cameron because they think they're so great on Caitlyn and Mecca's behavior. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, we're calling everybody out. [SPEAKER_00]: Why are we not calling this out? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's the fact that no one has said anything, including Bell Jolie, about that weird debrief and flirting or whatever it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, [SPEAKER_00]: We'll get there when Devin comes to say bye and mechers like, oh, I feel like I'm responsible for it. [SPEAKER_00]: Bell is in the room, guys. [SPEAKER_00]: And Devin was like, he called mech her out. [SPEAKER_00]: He overstepped. [SPEAKER_00]: They had a conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why did we not see it? [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: I was thinking that too. [SPEAKER_01]: It had to be somewhere where there wasn't, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm sure it was like when Mike's went off. [SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, I remember the couple of who we only had a couple go pros in like the main areas and maybe that have like a bedroom that we didn't see and because camera's the crew was probably going at that point, but I think that was important like I wanted to know how he approached that like what he said, you know what I mean, because he's like he basically said, Becca admitted to overstepping is what I took it as.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, you know, and I wanted to hear from him like, what did he consider overstepping? [SPEAKER_00]: Because some people are like, he just put a chain. [SPEAKER_00]: I just thought it was way too much. [SPEAKER_00]: Because what were they doing? [SPEAKER_00]: Like a promised thing with the fingers.

[SPEAKER_00]: They were kissing fingers and stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: It was Belle on the couch later. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's why. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: We're, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to have a point of view, like if she felt, if Devon felt that he overstepped, what was her point of view?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like even if she said, I mean, I know Devon is upset. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I understand, Mecca. [SPEAKER_00]: I know how he is. [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to hear her say it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, and waiting for that way too much grace in my way to my wife. [SPEAKER_00]: She does, but yeah, but nobody else called it out.

[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, Marissa is just going to Caitlyn like, oh, I can't believe you guys are calling in, but no one says anything about anything. [SPEAKER_00]: Devon says, no, you're not the cause of it, but it was the straw that broke the camel's backs. [SPEAKER_00]: So basically you are. [SPEAKER_00]: But he says, like, you know, they have their own problems.

[SPEAKER_00]: They've always had it. [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, Devon says he knows he put an effort and knowing that he failed things. [SPEAKER_00]: But he knows he tried. [SPEAKER_00]: He says he thinks she's amazing, but she has to let him let him in a bit. [SPEAKER_00]: And she did it. [SPEAKER_00]: He was very ready.

[SPEAKER_00]: And instead, he got someone who was one toe in and at the end of the day, he can be delusional. [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess I'm curious, Michelle. [SPEAKER_00]: Do you feel any kind of empathy towards Caitlyn? [SPEAKER_00]: Knowing that? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I do, just because I know how it feels to not like the person you are with and you kind of feel like you have to keep going and put your best foot forward and keep trying.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even though the back of your mind, you know it's not working. [SPEAKER_01]: So I like understand that, but I do, I side with Devon a little bit more in this situation [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, she talked about like he has attracted if he has everything I want, like he shows up for me, like, you know, she was saying that she was interested.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like when she was like, I think we just have to hook up or break up. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, yes, hook up. [SPEAKER_01]: Just like, you know, but it's also like, if you haven't felt physically wanting to like be physical in the past three or four weeks, like, [SPEAKER_01]: It's a no.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is. [SPEAKER_00]: But can we agree or do you agree that slow burn is really just an excuse for? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not attracted to you. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, because I'm like because I know all season long like a bunch of us are saying like oh don't sign up for the show Don't do this, but I'm just like I think if you'd were attracted to him This wouldn't even be a thing and I I know that people like to think that they can control The attraction, but I always feel like there's a reason why you signed up for a show like this you have something in you [SPEAKER_00]: that made you sign up and if you're attracted, you're not even going to think about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: You just didn't even think about it. [SPEAKER_01]: You've always like, well, Jamie and Doug, Jamie and Doug, it's simple. [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, or even like, Sean and Nikki, you know, like, we don't know what their physical encounter was, but it's something. [SPEAKER_00]: Well we ended up at 69.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just I don't she said they had sexual compatibility. [SPEAKER_00]: They had to have done something and I just Sorry guys to be crossed like I said I just thought his tongue is working. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know [SPEAKER_00]: Because what else? [SPEAKER_00]: How else was she know they're compatible?

[SPEAKER_00]: And the thing with Jamie and Doug, like I said, I want somebody else to have that story, they're the only example. [SPEAKER_00]: But by the honeymoon, she was warming up to him. [SPEAKER_00]: By the honeymoon, she already kissed him by then. [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, she just said, I think she didn't want to have sex on camera or something to that effect.

[SPEAKER_00]: But she was warming up to him. [SPEAKER_00]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: Caitlyn's is a tad too much, and then she's belonged to one of those lines. [SPEAKER_00]: She wasn't out yet at all. [SPEAKER_00]: At this point, Caitlyn is crying, saying that the experience pushed her in a lot of positive ways, and it's the most vulnerable that she's ever been her entire life.

[SPEAKER_00]: she says she feels misunderstood because she is misunderstood and he probably feels that way too. [SPEAKER_00]: I do appreciate that about Caitlyn because she's not like Felipe who's just like doubling down and placing blame on everyone else. [SPEAKER_00]: She'll say it and then also admit, you know, he probably feels that way too, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think she's self-aware like what she for the most part of what she's like, she's wrong, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: She's been wrong and she admits that's why I [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she said she would have loved for you to have worked out and all the nice things he did for her.

[SPEAKER_00]: She has never had and that's hard to walk away from too. [SPEAKER_00]: And for me, this just encapsulates their relationship to me. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm confused. [SPEAKER_00]: I, I just... [SPEAKER_00]: I feel safe, I don't feel safe, I have desire, I don't want him to touch me, there's a pillow for it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I could never quite figure that out. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I also want to see them fight in, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: Cause it's even like, she was like, I was so combatant with them the night before. [SPEAKER_01]: But I kind of thought he was like a little bit aggressive with her on the couch, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, and kind of not gonna have a real face. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like even bells that kind of like, hey, like, come back, come back. [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, and that's like a side we've never seen. [SPEAKER_00]: he always seems like very like calm so that was interesting yeah he does up until remember Courtney's birthday when she didn't want to talk about it and he was in her face like look at me look at me and all that so he was really um he does not like to be disrespected and he made that very clear and I don't like that yes that that is his uh where he draws the line he was like everything else I'm fine with but you are disrespecting me and that's a [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see at the reunion, if we even talk about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yes, I will say though, with Peacock money, we have good music, it was little big worlds playing say something in the background. [SPEAKER_00]: The most apt song you could ever play for this moment. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, I'm so jealous of the good music. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're adorable, like, horrible music.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the AM music that lets you know what's going on. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Chuck. [SPEAKER_00]: I agree. [SPEAKER_00]: Please jump in the bed. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so we see Caitlin leaving and I guess we are getting no conversation between her and Belle because honestly I was really just hoping for that Um, we noticed that Belle leaves with Nikki.

[SPEAKER_00]: I did not realize mecha was in the back seat. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I was like Where's my God, and then I also had someone's like, oh, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, here's there. [SPEAKER_00]: But how did they get there? [SPEAKER_00]: Like where's their car? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe neither one of them have a car.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was, I didn't understand. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought the same thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or issues. [SPEAKER_00]: I was, I mean, all the stars were aligned for producers for this couple's retreat. [SPEAKER_00]: Everything. [SPEAKER_00]: And then Mecca starts with a negative self-talk because that's what he knows.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was like, all these motherfuckers have to be honest with themselves. [SPEAKER_00]: Nicky's like, [SPEAKER_00]: Who? [SPEAKER_01]: Who's the mother fucker? [SPEAKER_00]: He's like me. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm an idiot and Bill is like, oh, stop calling yourself and idiot. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is the life I don't want for her.

[SPEAKER_00]: You are not the fixer. [SPEAKER_00]: You are not the mommy and it's just if you want to call himself an idiot, let him. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's always, he always turns it like he should be apologizing to her for his bad behavior. [SPEAKER_01]: and he always flips it so that she is like coddling and soothing him and making him feel better.

[SPEAKER_01]: When like the whole situation is because of what he did and that's not like always annoys me, because I'm like, why is she always soothing him? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, it's not the same because maybe they have a stronger foundation and when we get to them, that is my concern for Michelle with Cameron, actually.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's always soothing him, but no one seems to see it as something negative, and I'm like I'm a hater, but... [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, we'll get to it later. [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to like leave her job. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh God. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I like you more, but I'm going to move.

[SPEAKER_00]: My money's good too. [SPEAKER_00]: So. [SPEAKER_00]: She's a red winner. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Nikki says the same thing. [SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to do the negative self-talk here, but he continues. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, the filter is not existence. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying and doing whatever at the expense of other individuals.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, okay, great. [SPEAKER_00]: Just apply it in the moment. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, just be, you know, maybe it comes harder for you, but just tell yourself, give yourself a self-talk. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm going to watch what I say before I do it. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't. [SPEAKER_00]: Beating yourself up is not a plan.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just like do some actions and stop doing it, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: Like let's have money and actually make some change. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, some steps towards that. [SPEAKER_00]: Adam is driving back with his shirt on buttoned. [SPEAKER_00]: I just wanted everyone to know that.

[SPEAKER_01]: You talk every detail, I love it. [SPEAKER_00]: We get a security cam again, and you know what that means? [SPEAKER_00]: Sean is back home because Sean and Nikki, that's the footage we get with them. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the security cam and thank God for the security cam with those two. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, he comes home with food and Nikki's like, Oh, you brought a plate for me and Nikki seems happy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I say seems because there are not a couple. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm putting on an act that we really happy or we just playing house. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, also like you can bring the paper plate from the airport like was it was you like make a pit stop somewhere.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that's what I was thinking. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, did he stop by his house because I'm like, did he go through the airport with the plate like that. [SPEAKER_00]: So I hate carry ons and hand luggage and all that I would check anything in any time. [SPEAKER_00]: So to have that that seems like an inconvenience to me like, but it is a zipper or something.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, they kiss and she's like, oh, I even drag Earl Grey tea to stay up for you and I'm like, okay, that's cute But is it real? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know same. [SPEAKER_01]: I think the same thing because like I like I remember I would always like be in bed You know like before David came out and said like oh, I definitely don't have a conversation I think like I was like my thoughts.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, she stayed up like I'm always that he's put in in the effort Maybe she likes them and then like two seconds like oh, they're the hate each other [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because it doesn't last. [SPEAKER_00]: And again, I will say this again, I hate when people are maps saying, I'm trying, but I do think Nikki is the definition of trying on masks.

[SPEAKER_00]: So she gets a mask. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she gets a mask. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm always like an all like, okay, yep, she's doing it. [SPEAKER_00]: Whew, I'm sure she's got decision days here. [SPEAKER_00]: But let's go into wait, we'll take a quick break and [SPEAKER_00]: Alright, Bell and Mecca, they are talking about the retreat and Bell is like, it was a bad weekend overall.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I would agree with that, sweetie. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, mecha says like a large part for her is probably thinking that she shouldn't have to be put in those situations. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, again, Mecha, you have the right read on everything. [SPEAKER_00]: The problem is what you're doing with this read, which is nothing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And get that he's just adding to the list of things. [SPEAKER_00]: And instead of bail to say, yep, you're absolutely right. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to be put in this situation. [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I shouldn't have to, but it's happening for a reason. [SPEAKER_00]: It's helping me learn more about myself and to figure out how to respond and react in those situations.

[SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: you don't have to suffer to find love. [SPEAKER_01]: It's always like, my opinion about you hasn't changed. [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm like, it has to love. [SPEAKER_01]: It has to love. [SPEAKER_01]: But again, she's just trying to like, cuddle him. [SPEAKER_01]: It always feels like sued him.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's no big deal. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, don't self-savbitage. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm fine. [SPEAKER_01]: My opinion of you hasn't changed. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, it has, though, because even in her interviews, she says, you know. [SPEAKER_01]: And I get over this, like, well, this always be what I'm thinking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to give her a grace because again, I always have to keep reminding myself during their 20s. [SPEAKER_00]: I keep forgetting that and I was dumb in my 20s and it's that head versus heart thing. [SPEAKER_00]: She knows the right thing, she absolutely does and that's what's happening in the confessional but it's also that what if I am the one [SPEAKER_00]: That can fix him and it's like at that age you don't realize that no you are not the one you shouldn't even want.

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't volunteer as tribute. [SPEAKER_01]: No She's just like a 10 out of 10 like gorgeous face amazing body like brains like she is Personable so it's like it just like kills me every time that you see her kind of like dimming her life Like you know like I like oh come on yeah and then not seeing her worth like that [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he has to be confusing because he probably like also she's attracted to him, he fits the aesthetic that she's looking for I'm guessing the sex is good because she was complaining about not getting a pain that night so all of that together is just like again [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, go ahead.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think when it's just them one on one, he is very into her like her birthday. [SPEAKER_01]: Like he showed up, but then it's like they get in these group settings and he acts up and that's that's when it's because I haven't seen him do anything like when they're one on one.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's always in these group settings. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: We have like pulls these stunts and like makes her question things. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a big part because they're not going to be in the bubble. [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to [SPEAKER_00]: He has to learn how to deal with that, but he says that she's right that she shouldn't have to put up with this and it's all damaged that he's created and he has been beating himself up about it all day and it's crazy to me that even he realizes that she shouldn't have to put up with it, she hasn't set that out loud.

[SPEAKER_00]: Eventually she does but at this point she hasn't and I feel for him because I've you know I've talked about this in previous episode. [SPEAKER_00]: It's learned behavior for him. [SPEAKER_00]: It's all that he knows and He's just a self-fulfilling prophecy and he just keeps doing the same things over and over But like we said earlier he needs to stop and realize and start [SPEAKER_00]: fixing it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, this whole time, guys, they're holding hands. [SPEAKER_00]: We're out here finding Belgian ease battles and they're holding hands. [SPEAKER_00]: They're fine. [SPEAKER_00]: The sunset is out. [SPEAKER_00]: It's so gorgeous. [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, I know I'm a deeply flawed individual.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm coming into this, you know, my goal was to not let any of that show. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, huh? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you were going to give a false representation of who you were or you were going to hide who you were. [SPEAKER_00]: What do you mean by that? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you can only hide who you are for so long. [SPEAKER_00]: It just doesn't work. [SPEAKER_00]: So he says his energy was off and he was cocky, but it's not who he is. [SPEAKER_00]: And it was at this moment, Michelle, I was thinking like, do the experts feel like a distant memory to you?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm like, we had experts this season, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I literally was like oh, where are they and like you know being the gun here But it doesn't look like they're gonna be a part of decision days either with wild. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes Because I mean we should have got the hint when Paul was like, yeah, I'm not gonna see some of y'all again until God knows when because we didn't even know at the time they weren't gonna be a decision day [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think now is the time they need experts, but again, what do I know same I would think there'd be one more individual like couple session with each one before going into decision day to kind of talk about everything because like the [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and even like talking like how's everyone feel going into decision day like what does everyone thinking like what's holding you up like just questions like that to get them like thinking about the big decision that's ahead.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I thought but again. [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, eh, who cares about love? [SPEAKER_00]: Drown off. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So he tells her that his answer is still going to be yes, because he knows he wants to be with her and he knows how to treat her and to be respectful.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember which of my guests said this, but they do think that he's going to do all of this and he's going to say no. [SPEAKER_00]: He wants her to say yes and he will like, yeah, I don't deserve you no. [SPEAKER_00]: I can't do this to you. [SPEAKER_01]: legit. [SPEAKER_01]: I wrote in my notes.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I have such a bad feeling that he's going to do a bait and switch. [SPEAKER_01]: For he is going to be like, I'm a yes. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm absolutely yes. [SPEAKER_01]: There's not a doubt of my mind that I'm a yes. [SPEAKER_01]: And then she is going to be kind of doubting herself.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she's going to say yes, knowing he's going to say yes. [SPEAKER_01]: And then he's going to be like, it's a no for me. [SPEAKER_01]: And I am going to be, I mean, I'm going to be happy because I don't want them together. [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to break her because she's been so right or die for him.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it just, it'll make me sad for her. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that would be so cruel. [SPEAKER_00]: Ah, that would be so cruel. [SPEAKER_00]: Especially he's been reiterating like, I'm still a yes. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say yes and you're giving it all. [SPEAKER_00]: You can see in her.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: We like you. [SPEAKER_01]: The stuff is nothing. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a yes. [SPEAKER_01]: My feelings about you haven't changed. [SPEAKER_01]: I just feel like it's going to be, he'll be a no. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh no, oh boy, he, he says like what what like he's done some things to get her to say no and if she does say no like he'll be understanding of that and at this moment guys the sunset the lighting I don't know what it is hit her just right [SPEAKER_00]: She hasn't on the fly interview and she says I know it's not my job to heal him and like thank God but then she says but you know I feel like if he's loved correctly like a part of her want her to stay in it because she feels like she can contribute to him being a better person so she's weighing it out

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like everybody else gets like a final date type thing and I don't know they don't seem to get a final date, but they're at home and mechatelle's virtually that it looks like Michelle and Cam are the only ones on the Yes Island and she's like well I think Adam and Marissa are in the Yes Island, Tory and Philippe are in the Yes Island.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they make a swimming around the, yes, I think it's just him like fishing for her to be like, I'm going to be Yeah, it's like that's what it felt like to me just him trying to be like, what's what are you going to say? [SPEAKER_00]: What are you going to say? [SPEAKER_00]: So can you remind me, are you guys, oh, no, you didn't have that experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say I'd be encouraged to talk about that. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's a decision then. [SPEAKER_00]: I was gonna write it there and carry it to talk about. [SPEAKER_00]: I know I've asked before, but I think it varies for different people. [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know what the rules are now, because everything's different.

[SPEAKER_00]: But she says, you like to think that you know who I am. [SPEAKER_00]: So you tell me what you think I'm thinking. [SPEAKER_00]: I think he was pretty accurate. [SPEAKER_00]: He's just like, I really like this guy. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm attracted to him and I'm like, dude, stop saying that. [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's already like, [SPEAKER_00]: sensitive topic for you guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: So stop reiterating that she's attracted to you. [SPEAKER_00]: We know that. [SPEAKER_00]: Don't say it, you know, out loud, and she's like, but he's done something. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not sure if I want to. [SPEAKER_00]: And he was pretty accurate about what she's thinking, but he asked her what can I do for you for it to be a yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he says, I have falling in love with who you are as a person and the way that you care and nurture and I'm like It's not manipulative, but I didn't like the use of falling in love with her It's just like these little nuggets to keep her hanging on and like it's it Like as she likes him a lot, you know what he means So he drops these little nuggets just to like get her to keep going on [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like breadcrumming her way and that he adores her and she says like that he loves the things about her.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a confessional, but those things are her and maybe he doesn't want to say that he's in love with her and I'm like, oh, that was her interpretation is that he's in love with her? [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I thought this thing was like, oh goodness. [SPEAKER_01]: We're like, [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but she wants him to be into her so bad because she feels strongly for him and it's just very apparent that again, he's just giving her little bread crumbs and then yeah I don't blame her.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, a lot of the times I do say like maybe try it out without the cameras and maybe then I'm going to be in group settings and see how it is, but [SPEAKER_00]: In this case, I don't know, just run. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, he has a lot of fakes before all that happens. [SPEAKER_00]: Before I round out with their section, I did love the white sweater dress that she was wearing in the scene, because I was just looking.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: OK, I know you mentioned earlier, but just to reiterate, your prediction for them is what? [SPEAKER_00]: I think she'll say yes, he'll say no. [SPEAKER_00]: You don't think she'll say no at all. [SPEAKER_00]: You think for sure she'll say yes. [SPEAKER_00]: I think she's going to say yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yo, yo, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see. [SPEAKER_01]: But I love when she got Petty at the Couples or Treat, and she was like, well, I don't want to go with nails. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, yes, Belle. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: We're so pretty. [SPEAKER_01]: Anything bad about like, oh my God, there she is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she held herself back, because you know she wanted to say more. [UNKNOWN]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: She was so petty, and I loved every minute of it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's about time. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, okay, let's go to Niki and Sean, um, they go out for dinner and who picks up places for you guys when there's like dinner and stuff, how does that work?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this always drives me nuts. [SPEAKER_01]: The producers pick everything, um, they plan everything, like they do everything, but then you're kind of supposed to be like, oh, thanks so much for planning this day. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, no, they did not plan that. [SPEAKER_01]: It was suggestions or we could give [SPEAKER_01]: You don't plan anything because you have to get like the restaurants like approval for camp You know to me like you can't you just plan anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let me send so all the praises that Sean got for the what was it chocolate and wine thing? [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't his idea [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it was a deal, but he didn't plan it. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay, he didn't plan it. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so they got to dinner and she's bringing them up to speed about what happened in couples retreat to refresh everyone's memory.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sean had to leave for his mom's birthday party. [SPEAKER_00]: So she was just saying they were talking about how the men can be very disrespectful. [SPEAKER_00]: And then talks about, you know, she shared about the ranking where he said she's a [SPEAKER_00]: 17th in New York and a 10 in Seattle, which you know, I had Clara as a guest last episode and I said, she she and brought that up with him not being there because I just thought that was the purposeful.

[SPEAKER_01]: She didn't shut that down immediately because I feel like she usually stands up for herself right away. [SPEAKER_01]: So I was shocked that she hadn't brought it up sooner. [SPEAKER_00]: mm-hmm, she said then she tells him it's stung and it felt like that was the first time she was telling him about it like he said and when he said it and Sean is like wait wait wait before i meet the comment do you remember grabbing my belly fat and saying look at you you guys i laughed and not because of belly fat or anything it's because these this couple drives me nuts i don't know what is true i don't know what is real like they play too much [SPEAKER_00]: Titting or tating because it's always tit for tat with these two and then he says we are you know that he said something about we are both not all that I'm like we what?

[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't change anything. [SPEAKER_01]: Like the sentence still stands. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And I also think Mickey was when she was explained to the girls at the couples or change. [SPEAKER_01]: She was like, and he said he was a 10. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, did he really say that?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, it's just so absurd. [SPEAKER_01]: It's so absurd. [SPEAKER_01]: And then when she brings it up, obviously, like, well, I did that because you made fun of me. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it is the tip for tapping every time for like, which they should be like, you know what, you're right.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did say that. [SPEAKER_01]: It was wrong. [SPEAKER_01]: Move it along. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, she's like, I don't remember that. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, okay, who's lying? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's a very explicit situation. [SPEAKER_00]: That was right. [SPEAKER_00]: And we have seen her say, I didn't expect to get a dad bought without the kids or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: She said the dad part or something. [SPEAKER_00]: So they aren't always passive and aggressive. [SPEAKER_00]: Short shame on my think at one point too. [SPEAKER_00]: That part, if it was the dinner party, I do think she was misunderstood. [SPEAKER_00]: She was saying, I'm five sick and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe it. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, but I was saying like I don't think you changed the sentiment that he was still trying to humble her, which is like a pattern for him. [SPEAKER_00]: This is not the first time that he's doing this. [SPEAKER_00]: He's always trying to like humble her ever since he said, I don't find you physically attractive.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, oh, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: bit. [SPEAKER_00]: So he can have just said, I didn't appreciate the comment without seeing something hurtful. [SPEAKER_00]: But also, we watched this man blatantly lie about what he said about wifey duties. [SPEAKER_00]: And if there was no camera, we would never know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very, very true. [SPEAKER_01]: I think he just thinks very highly of himself. [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't take for himself. [SPEAKER_00]: For him, everyone needs self confidence or delusion, whichever he thinks very highly of himself. [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't think he takes criticism very well at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so then he kind of has to like do the low blows to her, you know, to bring her back down to like what he thinks is reality. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he says he was hurt and that's why he said it. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, grow up, he apologizes because that's what he does. [SPEAKER_00]: And she says, thank you for the apology and says I apologize for insulting you.

[SPEAKER_00]: So all I wanted to say was, oh, you remember now or we just didn't make the belly comment. [SPEAKER_00]: since people are nuts, like I can't with them. [SPEAKER_00]: So then she says in corporate speak, we shall endeavor to fight fairly and fight kind, ugh, this sounds like the things you buy at home goods, the signs like live love life for whatever it is, fight fairly, fight cangley.

[SPEAKER_00]: Confessional Sean comes out for those who don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Confessional Sean is very sassy. [SPEAKER_00]: That's where he says what he really feels like he's tone changes. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like demeanor changes and he just seems like he hates her and I will stand till the very end that he's her ops.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's the one who truly doesn't like Nikki and he's like, I can see when she's truly herself when she's in her soft person. [SPEAKER_00]: and it's loving and endearing, but can he see that long enough and consistently enough to get to a yes? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's so funny because that's the same thing she says about him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't like it. [SPEAKER_00]: They put two peas in the pot, but they don't even recognize it. [SPEAKER_00]: They don't like what they see of each other, but they're practically almost the same people. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're really interested in to me. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, she says she doesn't hold anything against him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, they're good. [SPEAKER_00]: But Sean has a look on his face and for those of you who watched the Michael Jordan documentary, that was his and I took that personally face, meaning like his lick back, one serving of lick back coming up soon. [SPEAKER_00]: So he's not going to forget about that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think there'll be nasty at the retreat or that's sorry at the reunion. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, something is going on. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, because on his social media, he's now posting her. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm wondering if they were so like if they hated each other, whatever, would he still post her?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we should be like, don't post me like leave me alone or it's just that delusional. [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's my picture. [SPEAKER_00]: I can do whatever I want with it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or like, you know, I didn't see the episodes myself until they dropped, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, you watch it back like, oh shit.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know what was me, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you, you have a perception of things and then you actually see a flow. [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't appear to be different than I recall. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true. [SPEAKER_00]: And he took down the apology after wifely duties.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think when wifely duties happen, he apologized, but then he took it down. [SPEAKER_00]: So I can't tell. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, he asked her if she's made a decision and she's like, no, I have it. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, how is that possible? [SPEAKER_00]: It's the night before. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she knows for the rest of your life.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, please. [SPEAKER_00]: to pray on it. [SPEAKER_00]: Shows like, wait, wait. [SPEAKER_00]: I've never heard you say that before in all the six weeks, we've been together and I'm like, yeah, they don't, yeah, they don't know each other. [SPEAKER_00]: They just call it, like, let's stop.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, they're saying no. [SPEAKER_00]: that's crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: He, um, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So then it's moving out day like, you know, before decision day, one person is moving out the apartment. [SPEAKER_00]: She's packing up her wedding dress and he asks her what he feels like to pack up her dress.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she says what he feels like, but that's not enough a duck to best. [SPEAKER_00]: Instead, use a feeling word. [SPEAKER_00]: I would be so mad and she actually answers him and is giving like a, oh, I feel like, and it goes into a long speech and I know this man did not be like, you don't have to give a speech, haha, ha ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she's brought on.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not, it's not ever casual conversations with him. [SPEAKER_01]: Like they just like, they are very corporate. [SPEAKER_01]: The conversations don't flow. [SPEAKER_01]: He does do a lot of like therapy talk. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it just, it's never just feels like organic, natural conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and this would be like, how do I feel like, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: Like it was just so odd. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not, I said it before that for someone who's so well educated he doesn't know how to say stuff because say use a feeling word you could easily just say no, but how do you feel like do you feel and but to say a feeling word like am I five like are you like [SPEAKER_00]: Don't dad me, I guess, that's the word.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like he's preaching at someone. [SPEAKER_00]: So then he's like, I feel like you're frustrated. [SPEAKER_00]: Duh. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no shit. [SPEAKER_00]: And then he's like, why are you frustrated? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, really, dude, you're just like, poking the bear again, like you wanted with Adam.

[SPEAKER_00]: And confessional shan comes up again. [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, uh, okay girl, you ain't got to tell a long story. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, yeah, that's the guy that hates her. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's not what he's doing when he's talking to her. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, he says that he can tell that to his friends and it doesn't become a fight.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, Dr. Bass because even though your friends for years, okay? [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that hard to tell why. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, she's saying like the the communication I want from my husband is to be kind and pathetic. [SPEAKER_00]: Don't cut me off and he's like, lower your tone.

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't yell at me and like is the yelling in the building. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think like I don't think she's yelling. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, they're infuriating, like, let's, you know, he always says to make sure he looks really good because he's like, okay, let's use what we've been taught now and I'm like, oh gosh, like I would just like get out of here, like if I was her, like I would've been so annoyed.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, he was like, how do we get out of this? [SPEAKER_00]: Let's use the tools. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's look it out and then we validate. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I don't fight in bullet points and sub-headers and whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: Let me fight. [SPEAKER_00]: I want fighting works and I want because you are, you know how I'm feeling?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a feeling worked, right? [SPEAKER_00]: You can do this. [SPEAKER_00]: They do their thing again, and then they do, I apologize that you felt that way. [SPEAKER_00]: And I apologize too. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just like, thank God this passive aggressive conversation is over.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm over it. [SPEAKER_00]: Because they're not fun to watch, and I really wish they could have made them leave early. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Would you rather watch Niki and Sean or Courtney and Nick? [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, probably Courtney and Nick. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I feel like they gave like we more to like talk.

[SPEAKER_01]: I never, like we knew what was going on there. [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: Like I just feel like Nicky and Sean. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I changed my mind about them every episode. [SPEAKER_01]: Like every time they're on the screen. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what? [SPEAKER_00]: They're keeping things exciting, keeping us on our toes.

[SPEAKER_00]: What is it going to be like? [SPEAKER_00]: Love Mickey's outfits. [SPEAKER_00]: So let's see, only people I like to keep for them is not okay. [SPEAKER_00]: My answer is Nicky and Sean. [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing will ever make court today be the answer. [SPEAKER_00]: Court today is never the answer.

[SPEAKER_00]: So... [SPEAKER_00]: I was so glad when they left. [SPEAKER_00]: Like the vibe, she really imagined them at the retreat at the couple's retreat. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that way. [SPEAKER_00]: Way chaotic. [SPEAKER_00]: So Nikki says she did not imagine their last night to be like this. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why she did not imagine.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is how it's been all season long. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is powerful course. [SPEAKER_00]: They don't even kiss goodbye. [SPEAKER_00]: They give each other a hug and that was it for them. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank God. [SPEAKER_00]: So what's your prediction? [SPEAKER_00]: They'll both be now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm telling you we remember we don't know ever what we think about them watch these two say I think that's something there. [SPEAKER_00]: We have core values community and family. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'm ever saying Adam. [SPEAKER_01]: I have a question about these two.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why? [SPEAKER_00]: Do these two always have so much food and food related things like pots and appliances and stuff, always in their kitchen area? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because they've got like to show that they've been so sick, they can't clean it. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, what was that?

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, look, they paned like how gross the parcels are with my gosh. [SPEAKER_00]: The last time when you were talking about, I can't remember, when you had the tag on, they had like all these food and open things and chips and stuff just all around and like, oh, this must be a thing for them.

[SPEAKER_00]: So then like shocked that they're napping. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, I thought he hated naps, but then I found out like he said, they're both sick. [SPEAKER_00]: And apparently he took a rapid test and he has to flew and he has COVID at the same time. [SPEAKER_00]: And somehow he infused a jet ski reference on there talking about how he feels like he was being dragged onto water by a jet ski.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like how the times have changed. [SPEAKER_00]: Like someone testing positive for COVID and the camera seems to be there. [SPEAKER_00]: It didn't look like a like a cell phone. [SPEAKER_01]: That's like the couple days gone by like I was thinking the same thing. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like are the crew and N95 Like what I thought they exactly interesting yeah, I mean they moved them to the balcony like Out there and I was like oh it seemed like they're far away and then afterwards they were off close I mean they could have zoomed but I don't know if it would be in sick like she would be too good [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe she wasn't.

[SPEAKER_00]: Remember she says like it's nice to slow down. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll take one for the team. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, she did say it's nice being sick together because they can slow down and I hope Marissa knows that he's not going to be sick forever. [SPEAKER_00]: So let's find a long term solution for this.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he did make her soup make her tea and she likes that he's zoning in and being genuine and it's not [SPEAKER_00]: He brings up the decision day and says, you know, he knows that they talked about her moving in with him, and but he also knows that it's a big move. [SPEAKER_00]: He says, if he were him, he wouldn't move if he lived five minutes away from work because he muting is the worst ever.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's not lying. [SPEAKER_00]: I hate him eating so much. [SPEAKER_00]: But I couldn't tell if he was being supportive or trying to like deter her from moving into his face. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I took that as him being supportive. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, I was like, look at a place with you that we can compromise on and then you did throw in like, and then you could come to the gym with me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, yeah, yeah, you could, as like him, like initiating a big conversation, like, okay, decision based, let me know. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think they clearly have both talked about saying yes, and they're moving together. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and then him being like, [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it wasn't just automatic, like, so you're still coming to move into my, yeah, I did.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, wow, like, I think there's some growth here. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I was impressed. [SPEAKER_00]: I've was too. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought the conversation was going to go left because she was when I was like, maybe we should get a new place. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was thinking he was going to be like, I mean, why?

[SPEAKER_00]: We have a perfectly good place right now. [SPEAKER_00]: Why would we do this? [SPEAKER_00]: But then when you're tired, what would one would be like? [SPEAKER_00]: And a disco ball that's broken. [SPEAKER_00]: Hey. [SPEAKER_00]: but he says they could join a new gym, they could do workouts and somehow this conversation was so long he became nighttime and it was dark outside.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't even notice that. [SPEAKER_00]: It did feel to me that this is a conversation that they previously had and they're just doing it again for the case. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, she asks like, oh, wow. [SPEAKER_00]: Are we late uncompromising? [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, no, is going to take some time for us to see if it's going to work for us.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, is that you? [SPEAKER_00]: Really? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, so maybe you want a screen time. [SPEAKER_01]: This whole episode. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the last couple of episodes actually. [SPEAKER_00]: And when you don't get screen time, do you pass by like a golden couple? [SPEAKER_00]: It needs to go in a lot, but maybe silver.

[SPEAKER_00]: She says she's a hopeless romantic and at this point she's hoping for a miracle. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, wait, why? [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think it's hopeless? [SPEAKER_00]: What do you mean? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm hoping for a miracle, but that's it for them. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think it was surprising.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've always said that I don't think they're like a 0% for me. [SPEAKER_00]: I just think they think differently. [SPEAKER_00]: And if he can realize what compromise means, he's not there yet. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the fact that he's willing to live somewhere and [SPEAKER_00]: Lake house where his house is, they could make it work and maybe she could get away without working out.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but there's hope there, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think there's definitely hope they're like, obviously they're both really into each other. [SPEAKER_01]: I want to work on it and say, my predictions, there yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: And they're the perfect example of if you give people what they're attracted to, they will build on that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because you don't see a lot of deep, you know, deep conversations with them, but I do think they like each other, so I think that will continue to grow or they should open their free with me and not together. [SPEAKER_01]: And we get a whole new story. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we'll see, because I mean, for all the things about Adam, I don't know, yes he has, he has disrespected Marissa.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was gonna say he's never done it, but he did it twice when they did the painting thing and he painted her so ugly and then put cooked. [SPEAKER_00]: And when they went thrift shopping and he was like, maybe you can get a one, a push-up broth to fix whatever that situation is going that was, that was a special.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see. [SPEAKER_00]: All right, onto your namesake, St. Michelle and St. Cameron. [SPEAKER_00]: they have their final dates and it's all nice and sweet he's like he's never felt secure and he's never felt that a woman has had his back and I'm like like hope none of your exes are watching this because they thought otherwise so before he sits at the restaurant there is a wrapped gift on the seeds and it's like oh my god there's a gift here surprise how did he get here [SPEAKER_00]: but it's a football.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a friend wedding picture. [SPEAKER_00]: So original, never seen it in all 20 seasons. [SPEAKER_00]: He says he had worries about his freedom and if they say yes, then that would be challenging. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, wait, that's what no one wants to talk about with these two. [SPEAKER_00]: So now he's saying, and I'm surprised they kept that in, but I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Did you have any thoughts about when he said [SPEAKER_01]: Well, did he go into that sometimes he gets depressed? [SPEAKER_01]: Is that, was that a couple episodes ago? [SPEAKER_01]: Like he like touched on it a little bit? [SPEAKER_01]: No, I might be adding, but I feel like he like touched on like he gets down.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so sometimes I was like, he said, oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. [SPEAKER_01]: And then a few ago, but then I was thinking like, is that what he means? [SPEAKER_01]: Like are these the challenges of like, her always having to pick him up? [SPEAKER_01]: Like I didn't know what he meant.

[SPEAKER_01]: And also to me, it feels like, [SPEAKER_01]: The producers also asked them the same question over and over, like, Cam's never been in a relationship. [SPEAKER_01]: Are you worried? [SPEAKER_01]: Cam, you've never been in a relationship. [SPEAKER_01]: Should you be worried? [SPEAKER_01]: I think he gets in his head about that stuff or like, you know, you've never committed before.

[SPEAKER_01]: Can you commit? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it just feels like that's kind of their storyline because they don't have, like, a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: And so that I wonder if that's what he means. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, these are the challenges we're going to have. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can't, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I actually think that they do have challenges. [SPEAKER_00]: They're just choosing not to get into it because even with the experts, they're choosing not to get with that because I think what they could work on is when he says everything's perfect now and I wanted to stay this way forever, which is not realistic.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, how are we going to handle the hurdles especially since every now and then? [SPEAKER_00]: I just feel down and things like that. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you're right. [SPEAKER_01]: He never specified. [SPEAKER_01]: They're living situations like they don't live. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is it three hours per limb Seattle? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure what it was. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, even that. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, what does that look like? [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it sounds like she has a very good job that makes a decent amount of money. [SPEAKER_01]: We know he makes less than her.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like now she's like a brooding her. [SPEAKER_01]: She owned a home in Seattle. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, she has roots. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's Seattle. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, you know, she kind of felt like she was not throwing that away. [SPEAKER_01]: It was like it's like the independent one was like, oh my god, you're giving that all away.

[SPEAKER_01]: I go for a guy sick. [SPEAKER_01]: She's considering it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Because she likes it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: It just makes me a little nervous. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you don't go here. [SPEAKER_01]: Him also. [SPEAKER_01]: I think we did in a few episodes in the past.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, being like, [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just hard to remember to get a coaching job as what it sounds like, but he kind of was, it wasn't like he was like, I could also move, you know, or I could commute, you know, it's, or we live in half way, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mean, I think he said it, like he, it's unpredictable, which goes back to Sean's point of like, and not in a bad way, because I think what Sean said was kind of misunderstood, but it is fact on an factual level, it's not stable.

[SPEAKER_00]: His job is not one where you plant roots. [SPEAKER_00]: It's nine to five and you know you're gonna be here. [SPEAKER_00]: It's more like wherever they call me, wherever it's available. [SPEAKER_00]: That's where I'm gonna be. [SPEAKER_00]: And like I've told previous people, I don't know if you knew, but he has a job in California now.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's an assistant coach now for team. [SPEAKER_00]: I forget, I think maybe Bay Area, but yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: He's in California. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if she moved to, but we'll find out, I guess, in the union. [SPEAKER_00]: But he posted on his social media. [SPEAKER_00]: interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know sports. [SPEAKER_01]: So is that like he like coaches? [SPEAKER_01]: Is that like they switch locations quite a bit? [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like or yeah, I think I think for him. [SPEAKER_00]: I think he just kind of moves and because it was a community college at first.

[SPEAKER_00]: So now I think it's a state college which is like a promotion. [SPEAKER_00]: Guys don't quote me because I know you guys would tell me if I'm wrong, but I think that's what it is. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have a friend of me, but yes. [SPEAKER_00]: but it's in a different state. [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know if she's moved.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if they're doing long distance, but that is the stability Shawn was talking about. [SPEAKER_00]: And to your point, we saw her aunt. [SPEAKER_00]: She has family there. [SPEAKER_00]: She has a house. [SPEAKER_00]: She had a roommate. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that poor guy am I moving out?

[SPEAKER_00]: Am I not telling me because I like my house right now? [SPEAKER_00]: How am I right? [SPEAKER_00]: Gonna be. [SPEAKER_00]: So you know. [SPEAKER_01]: Sean had another rant about them too, you know, about Michelle, um, you'll have to reveal giving up. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or like that she's always she wants to be loved so much, you know, or I forget what he has to be another rant about them too.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there must be so much in the group therapy sessions that we don't see, because like where did he get that from? [SPEAKER_00]: because honestly, even based on what they've just shown us because her ass when she started was she wanted someone who made more than her. [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't give her that and she was like, you know what, that's fine, he has more positives.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then she wanted someone to his point that was stable. [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, she has someone who doesn't live there and he doesn't know where the next job is gonna take him and she's like, [SPEAKER_00]: That's fine. [SPEAKER_00]: We can, you know, work it out. [SPEAKER_00]: So to your point, maybe there's more, but those two other ones that stick out, I don't know how much they know about him filling down every now and then.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think he mentioned sometimes, did he say he didn't feel good enough for this. [SPEAKER_00]: She's great. [SPEAKER_00]: Something like that, but there's a lot to share. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true. [SPEAKER_00]: on there. [SPEAKER_00]: So she said what she's most nervous about is the distance and she says they knew that we're going to have it tough till the job thing was figured out and I'm like what job thing they didn't go into detail because they don't want to ruin you know not the facade but the golden couple and he's like oh but you like your job though and I'm like wait she wants to quit and she's like I like you more and I'm like huh [SPEAKER_00]: Last I checked, this was 2025.

[SPEAKER_01]: The job market is not easy, but you know, yeah, well, even we have never heard her say or I don't remember her being like, I don't like my job. [SPEAKER_01]: I want to quit my job and then all of a sudden it was like, well, you know, I've always been wanting to quit my job lately, you know, kind of just felt like the narrative was changing to kind of [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, with he, he wants, you know, which is what's on the side of you for the, the Bay Area.

[SPEAKER_01]: Good job. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I was just thinking like, um, I hope you're not still at the same workplace because now that it's aired, they realize you said I've been looking to find another job. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, where are you? [SPEAKER_00]: Very awkward. [SPEAKER_00]: 5% of her is nervous about him feeling trapped.

[SPEAKER_00]: These are words that he said that we've never addressed. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, are you feeling or losing his freedom? [SPEAKER_00]: But he should communicate if he ever feels that. [SPEAKER_00]: I will say that mean to be objective. [SPEAKER_00]: He has said like meeting her has, you know, changed his way of thinking.

[SPEAKER_00]: He does worry about it. [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, what is he going to do? [SPEAKER_00]: The feelings of positivity that he feels around her. [SPEAKER_00]: I think supersedes those feelings, you know? [SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, they're gonna work it out. [SPEAKER_00]: He says he's an overtinker, but he's not freaked out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she says like, you know, you're my writer now. [SPEAKER_00]: And he says, uh, I feel the same. [SPEAKER_00]: And she starts to tear up. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm mentioning this because I was a guest in another podcast where someone asked a question like, do you think Michelle laughed too much and cries too much?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh yeah, she laughed a lot and I was like, but crying, nah, no, she does it. [SPEAKER_00]: And as soon as I got off, and it ended on, she was crying every single time. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I was so wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: So she sighs crying here. [SPEAKER_00]: And so does he, although I don't see tears from him, but apparently he was tearing up, I guess.

[SPEAKER_00]: and they tell each other that they're incredible. [SPEAKER_00]: And she starts wondering in a confessional if she should say I love you first because he's never been in a serious relationship. [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe he's not going to know when to say it. [SPEAKER_00]: But she thinks he's going to say yes and she has found the one for her.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was shocked that they haven't said I love you yet. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why. [SPEAKER_00]: I think because of cam, I'm not shocked. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think he made a, wait, what is the one? [SPEAKER_00]: Not a 180, 360. [SPEAKER_00]: He didn't end up in the same place, which I've won 80, I think.

[SPEAKER_00]: And but we can't forget, it's still five weeks, right? [SPEAKER_00]: He came in like, oh, scared of commitment, scared of all the things. [SPEAKER_00]: So he still has some hurdles to go through like his grade and he doesn't just respect her, he really likes her. [SPEAKER_00]: He's doing all the things, but there's still some things that I think will be gun shy to just say, I love you.

[SPEAKER_00]: That would probably make him so overwhelmed. [SPEAKER_00]: It's viral. [SPEAKER_00]: But if she said it first, I do think he'll say it back. [SPEAKER_00]: We too, 100% you know, I think she'll say it back. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, um, predictions, yes, yes, I guess. [SPEAKER_00]: He'll be nice.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's, well, in the previews, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Didn't we see him say it's a fake out, right? [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, that is just damn trying to get us like, oh no. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: All right, um, Tori and Felipe, this is our last couple because two people or two couples are down.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, he is meeting up with his family, specifically his mom and a friend called Nana. [SPEAKER_00]: I will tell you guys, like, you know, I'm watching and taking notes and I saw Nana and mom and I just thought it was his grandma. [SPEAKER_00]: I looked up. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, whoa, grandma is hot.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, no, take the kids. [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's right only going to knock off her. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, no, no, I was like, oh, it's very long. [SPEAKER_00]: I think he'll watch his young. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, because when I first met his mom, I was like, his mom was a baddie too.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, oh, it runs in the family, but it's a friend of his called Nato. [SPEAKER_00]: So he shares that he's not quite certain what his answer will be yet. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is why I don't believe Felipe a lot of the times. [SPEAKER_00]: He's been telling us his committed since today.

[SPEAKER_00]: He met her. [SPEAKER_00]: but the thing with Philippe because words mean things he always says for now. [SPEAKER_00]: He never fails to say that. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it is only committed when he's pressed by the experts or by Tory. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when they get in the group settings, he doesn't feel so committed.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just feel like he is only committed when [SPEAKER_00]: he's pressed a little bit and then he's back in the corner. [SPEAKER_00]: He says that she's incredible, but it's not perfect, but he can't be he's true self around her and he always gets in trouble around her. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, uh, finish your sentence.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not complete. [SPEAKER_00]: Like say why? [SPEAKER_01]: for the people wanting to sleep with women. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's not too late. [SPEAKER_00]: You said it multiple times to a lot of people at the table. [SPEAKER_00]: He says, I'm not perfect, but for the rest of my life, I'm going to say stupid shit.

[SPEAKER_00]: One, that's a wild thing to just accept about yourself without doing any work. [SPEAKER_00]: And he's friends saying, we know, haha, it's not cute. [SPEAKER_00]: Stop it. [SPEAKER_00]: you know, don't encourage him to do that. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, the friend says, no, no, what he's referring to.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll, that's why I'm like, I'll give her, not a little bit of grace because she doesn't know what, but you know, if my guy friend asked me that, I would be like, okay, what exactly did you say? [SPEAKER_00]: Because the thing about it is like, I'm your friend, right? [SPEAKER_00]: How are you late to you?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the same. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have to go home with you. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have to share a life with you, [SPEAKER_00]: What did you say to your wife? [SPEAKER_00]: Why are you getting in trouble? [SPEAKER_00]: Then I'll give context to that, but maybe I'm too serious too.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: So the friend says, um, when she first met him, she thought he was me, but you know, now they know him and they know that he doesn't mean any harm. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, so she has experience. [SPEAKER_00]: even as a friend that he's mean. [SPEAKER_00]: So you should say, you know, you've only known each other five weeks, you should, you know, give her time.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, she says, maybe you'll take Tori some time, but you can't make the same jokes with your friends with your wife. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I thought. [SPEAKER_00]: He says like people always tell me I'm like Paul said that that he won't find someone like her again He doesn't know what would be better.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's single life or marriage with Tory. [SPEAKER_00]: His mom is like me and dad [SPEAKER_00]: You love her. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what you're talking about, but I think she's good for you, but I also know that it has to be a decision. [SPEAKER_00]: Which I appreciate, you know, give or take people at the end of the day have to feel like they may their decision.

[SPEAKER_00]: So whatever the consequences they have to deal with that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was glad the mom said that because I kind of thought she was going to be because sometimes he's like a mom was boy, you know what I mean. [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure she was going to like, like, cuddle him. [SPEAKER_01]: I was glad she was like, I really liked Torrey. [SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing wrong with Torrey. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, we fully support Torrey. [SPEAKER_01]: So like, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so then we see Tori talking to her sister again about the big fight and saying that, you know, but you know, I don't think she ends something because it's hard because it's all going to be hard at some point and I understand what she's saying, but it's not usually a good reason to stay in something that's making you unhappy.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just [SPEAKER_00]: you know, deciding the level and I and I get it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably tough in the situation. [SPEAKER_00]: There's so much going on. [SPEAKER_00]: There's so much pressure. [SPEAKER_00]: You're going out of your mind. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you know, so I do.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: She's she like, I'm shocked that she's like into him. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It is. [SPEAKER_00]: I think the perception everyone has of Tori is not [SPEAKER_00]: what she's doing now, because at some point a few episodes back, I was like, is she a Marissa?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is she just going along with a lot of things and going against what she would normally would not stand for, but then we know what then she does things like, yeah, I'm not staying up for you. [SPEAKER_00]: Go figure it out by yourself and yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so she does tell her that she feels like this could be her husband forever and you could tell her sister is not a fan like buddy language is very strong, but she says, oh, so for you, but everything you choose.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right, it's just he was out the second she found out he wants to sleep with other women. [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, you know. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, he told you your truth and in that with the cheating and it's a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: in a confessional story says that she feels like they're stronger after the retreat and the fighting has shown them that they can work through hard things.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, Tori, that's not. [SPEAKER_01]: He's someone again, like he takes feedback well, but he just never, like the same with like Mecca, we're like, okay, you've said it now. [SPEAKER_01]: When are you changing? [SPEAKER_01]: Like when when is the actual change happening? [SPEAKER_00]: when he's gonna happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Felipe says one of the highlights was their wedding day. [SPEAKER_00]: So wedding album, yeah, surprise, what? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: She seemed excited about it. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, it's not his idea. [SPEAKER_00]: Like. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what you're planning to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we're not going to be in props for this, like this man barely knew what to do when your car was down or walking your dog and you think he thought about this. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, or even I think he also says coming up he was like, it's so nice. [SPEAKER_01]: She brings me breakfast and bed at 11 a.m.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's sleeping in the 11 a.m. and she's really breakfast like what did what does Tory get out of this like that's I don't know like I don't understand yep yep she has put it a lot actually I'm so excited for the reunion I hope they do it right but [SPEAKER_00]: It's all words to me. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess Tori is believing it, but it's hard for me to believe stuff that Felipe says, you know, yeah, I agree.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's time to move out and he says his fear of commitment is an overdrive and he is trying to fight back. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, the day before this is your day. [SPEAKER_01]: Got it. [SPEAKER_00]: But um, they are the first for decision day, and this is how we find out that we're just meeting at a location And there's not gonna be anybody and I'm like, okay another change you guys baby steps guys is too much They do that thing they do where you know you guys I don't know is it the voice over my journey was wait you didn't do that to you [SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't, I don't even make it to the same thing that I said.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for getting so, but the part where they do the summary of their journey, the things they like, the peaks and the valleys and all that. [SPEAKER_00]: So they get there and he says that he's conflicted, he knows for a fact. [SPEAKER_01]: He wants to be with her right now and right now is never.

[SPEAKER_01]: All gave him that, like, saying, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, no, won't there be such a positive, what, you know, right now? [SPEAKER_01]: And now he's just continually using that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, yep. [SPEAKER_00]: So he says, like, he's not sure if he's the man that she deserves and, you know, they, he says, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's not, he's not being wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, they get there. [SPEAKER_00]: He gives her flowers. [SPEAKER_00]: He tells her she looks beautiful and he starts like this weird speech and is like I don't know how many 100% decisions you've made in your life I've probably made zero like you're supposed to be selling yourself, but I think to some extent like you know every single part is a leap of faith [SPEAKER_00]: Um, things that I could think I want in a woman and my wife and my partner.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have that in spades, the way you embrace my family. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have words for the way you take care of people, what you were seeing earlier. [SPEAKER_00]: And something that I love about you is that I wake up at Tori at 11. [SPEAKER_00]: You bring me any is cursing. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't mind cursing, but for something serious like this, why are you?

[SPEAKER_00]: You fucking bring me breakfast and you've been fucking doing shit for out like, be serious. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know? [SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, which is just stupid. [SPEAKER_00]: How is this stupid her bringing you breakfast? [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm like you're supposed to be reminding her why she should say yes, but you are just reminding her why she should say no.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: What's happening? [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't want to give us a clue because even when she was in the house, they didn't want to say anything and then she came up and was like pissed and he's like, um, you're incredible. [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, you said she looked mad, but she's like, I don't know what to say.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then a confessional, she says, I'm so confused. [SPEAKER_00]: Can we count how many times she said that in a confessional? [SPEAKER_00]: Something happened. [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, I'm so confused. [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, after moving out, they had a conversation. [SPEAKER_00]: She did not anticipate.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he dropped a bomb on her. [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't filmed, but she wasn't having it. [SPEAKER_00]: She has so many emotions. [SPEAKER_00]: But primarily, it is hurt. [SPEAKER_00]: and it seems cruel. [SPEAKER_00]: It seems heartless. [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, I really liked with the D. You.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's important to be honest. [SPEAKER_00]: The flip is like, I like without the D. You. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, dude, she's mad at you already stopped. [SPEAKER_00]: And it was like, she says, do you think what you told me? [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that was normal? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, guys, Dan, to sufficient is killing me.

[SPEAKER_00]: What is it? [SPEAKER_00]: And that's how we ended. [SPEAKER_00]: So Michelle, what is your best guess on what he said and then I'll share what I think it is? [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: My guess is that it's probably not as juicy as we want it to be. [SPEAKER_01]: I think he is gonna be like, we should both say yes on decision day, but then date for a little bit and see if we actually should like keep going on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's what I think. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't think it's gonna be as juicy as we think. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that makes sense. [SPEAKER_00]: My mouth seems out loud. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we have to hear right now for an open marriage, the best, like if I can sleep with people, you get me and I promise I'll be committed to you at least day by day for now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you'll be right into that. [SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like it's going to be like, let's just say yes here. [SPEAKER_01]: And then let's date a little bit, you know, so I can make sure I have all my singleness out. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so probably is kind of a looting to like maybe I need to like hook up a couple more times with [SPEAKER_01]: And then come back to you and like make a decision for real.

[SPEAKER_01]: But in front of the cameras, we should just both say it both say yes. [SPEAKER_00]: That makes sense. [SPEAKER_00]: Especially she said it was cruel and it was heartless. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so. [SPEAKER_00]: But what do you think decision day is going to be? [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's a yes, she's a no.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think? [SPEAKER_00]: I honestly, with decision day, I never have a prediction because these people are just crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: And I never know what the intentions are, especially with this cast where I feel like it's to be an influencer. [SPEAKER_00]: I know everyone wants to look good.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am inclined to think that you say yes, and it's like, hey, I did say yes, but her definitely, you know, definitely, you know, from her, but here I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Who it's gonna be? [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that was it for the episode guys. [SPEAKER_00]: I like I liked that they left us on the clip hangar because it's like this was great to start this way and to see you know how it's gonna be But before we wrap up who gets your bouquet for this episode?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm giving it to Adam. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought we saw a growth from him. [SPEAKER_01]: This is known with, you know, initiating the living conversation being willing to compromise. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's also here that she would like to live as well. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm giving it to Adam.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can see that. [SPEAKER_00]: Guys, I hate everybody this episode. [SPEAKER_00]: I gave it to nobody. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I just, I thought so hard about it. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was just, no, I cannot give it to anyone. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I just, everybody get it together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Get it together, please. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not in pain, I'm not that bad. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, who do you give you ashes, too? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm giving them to Mecca, because I feel like he gives her the run around. [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like he kind of makes her, again, I just think he's trying to make her say yes and not doubt the relationship and I think he's gonna burn her in the end.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, I really hope that doesn't happen so late. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I actually go to Philippe and whatever the hell he said off camera and the this have the audacity to come on there And say I really want you are really like you. [SPEAKER_00]: You're the best and you said something the night before you insane So yeah, that was it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that was fun. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for coming on and Kisha Kisha will be way they can find you and they can spend money on your links. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, please I know you can find me at md template on all socials [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, guys, you know what it find me? [SPEAKER_00]: Taint talks all over the social media of your choice and please give me a five-star rating.

[SPEAKER_00]: Apple podcasts and Spotify and stay subscribed. [SPEAKER_00]: So you don't miss out on any new episodes next week. [SPEAKER_00]: It'll be the decision day and the reunion. [SPEAKER_00]: Until next time, guys, bye.

MAFS S20 Ep. 18: He Said What? w/Michelle from S18

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