John Reviews The Social Reckoning, Muse Wonder, Apple’s HomeView | Diet TBPN

0:01 How was your weekend?

0:02 It was great. Too long. Yeah? Too long.

0:05 Yeah. Four days is way too much.

0:07 I missed you. Yeah. I missed us. I missed the ultra dumb. But...

0:12 I'm glad to be back.

0:13 We are back. And, yeah, it was a good good weekend. I saw the Social Reckoning. Big drop, big weekend, because I think it was opening weekend. This weekend, the theater was completely empty.

0:25 But it's interesting. Do you think that the Meta team tried to time up Muse, Wonder, all the good news to, like, fight back? Like, the cheeky pint appearance? Because they completely steamrolled the movie.

0:37 They won. Don't even

0:38 think they needed to because this... The movie got really bad.

0:40 The crazy thing is that I had... I have zero desire to see the movie. Yeah. I will not be going to the movie. Yeah.

0:46 And in many ways, it's my job to at least go. Yeah. I feel like I I figured you were gonna go. Yeah. So I felt like we were covered.

0:54 So I did go.

0:55 It's crazy that I'm like... It's crazy how excited I am to go see the Nathan Fielder film. Yeah. And how little I even care to even know about... I don't even care about your review.

1:06 Okay. Well, you're about to care.

1:08 Others might.

1:09 My review is gonna be riveting. Okay?

1:11 Okay.

1:11 So it's Saturday. It's a little rainy in LA. And so I'm like, oh, I'll throw on this jacket. I'll I'll I'll get a little cozy.

1:20 You go see

1:20 a film. I had to go to some other events, went to over to our friend's place, and then I go to the movie. So I walk in, and I'm... And I think I'm looking good. I'm I'm I'm dressed for like a, you know, a nice rainy day in LA.

1:32 I walk in to the theater. I sit down for the Social Reckoning, and it stars... You know, it focuses on this Wall Street Journal reporter, Jeff Horwitz. And in the movie, I'll pull up a picture of what he wears in the movie because I looked like a kid from Spider Man who dressed up as Spider Man going to see Avengers. And I was like, wait, that's my exact jacket, my exact...

1:58 I had the same jeans and boots too. It was it was really, really striking. I just accidentally wore a costume to the movie. So it was very funny. And I was like, that is exactly my jacket. Like, it's not even just the same brand. I think it's the exact same jacket. Anyway That's

2:14 so funny.

2:15 It was

2:15 a very funny moment. It's not quite a sequel to The Social Network. Like, it's not the same structure of protagonists, antagonists. It's not really about the internal operations at Meta, at Facebook. It's very much about the...

2:29 So the Mark Zuckerberg character is now played by Jeremy Strong instead of Jesse Eisenberg, and it's much more peripheral. The story follows data engineer Francis Haugen and Wall Street Journal investigative reporter Jeff Horwitz. The whole thing feels very out of date in the scaling era. The race towards superintelligence is so dominant in the minds of tech people right now. I'm not surprised that this movie is an underperforming because it doesn't answer the questions that people are asking about companies right now.

2:54 Worldwide opening was 9,000,000 on a budget of 40,000,000. So it's it's like gearing up to be a flop, but not the... You know, the game's not over yet. And Rotten Tomatoes has a 55% score across 215 reviews. The acting's fairly compelling. The lighting, it moves quickly. The story ebbs and flows nicely over the two hour run time, but it feels like a time capsule from a completely different era. Mark Zuckerberg has so thoroughly reinvented himself that it felt like... I was like, who is who is Jeremy Strong playing? And I'm like, oh, yeah.

3:26 Mark was kind of like that in 2019. But since then, it's like UFC, complete fashion makeover. Change the company's name. They have fashion line now with, like, glasses and so many different elements. And then AI, obviously, personal assistance. Like, even hearing the word Facebook feels antiquated now because people have actually shifted to... Well, Instagram's a more important social platform, and then MSL and the AI stuff is really important. So Muse is a more important buzzword than than Facebook, and then they renamed the company and stuff. So it felt like a black black... Black woman passed.

4:00 You know, people often say the job of media is to speak truth to power, ask the hard questions, and I came away thinking Aaron Sorkin refused to ask the hard questions. There are so many hard questions to ask about Meta. You could ask, you know, will Muse margins be comparable to Meta's core ad business? But Yeah. Sorkin doesn't ask that.

4:19 Or you could ask, like, does Muse Wonder jumping really good on the benchmarks? Does that change the underlying benchmarks. Is it benchmarks? That's a hard question.

4:26 And even cheeky pint even even cheeky pint was pushing on that.

4:29 Right? Exactly. But Corporate meeting. Sorkin completely drops the ball. Yeah.

4:33 Doesn't doesn't address the fact that if Muse is if MuseWonder is competitive, does that change the underlying frontier model economic thesis? Like, that's the question that people want to ask. That's the question that media has a responsibility to ask and to investigate and to interrogate, and yet Sorkin completely shirks his duty there. Will the retention curve for Muse smile? You know, right now, there's some there's a post by DD Dash showing that Muse, you know, there's a lot of excitement on day one.

5:01 After fourteen days, a a lot of people have stopped using the product. Sometimes these things come back. What's going on there? Completely ignored by the movie. It was very, very odd. And so instead, he focuses on old stories that have been settled in the courts, essentially. But there were a bunch of other funny things. I was taking notes. And it's hard because... Michael, are are you here to give your review?

5:23 I have to be very careful because I'm a fan of Aaron Sorkin. Okay. I think he's great.

5:27 Okay.

5:27 He has made a lot of great work. Okay. This did not feel like one of those great...

5:31 What what what specifically was lacking? Because I thought the acting was pretty good and I thought like I... If if it had been three hours, would have been like, oh, that was a drag. But like two hours, I thought it was okay. Was it just like too contrived?

5:43 Because like, I feel like my critique of it is probably very different than yours.

5:46 Yeah. Contrived feels like a good word. It just feels like... It felt like all the all the character dynamics and the dialogue and everything just felt so forced. Yeah.

5:55 And it felt like it was trying to be like an eighties, like, journalistic thriller, like, all President's Men or something like that. But it just felt like kind of out of place and it felt too polished to actually fit in that in that scope. Yeah. I

6:07 don't know.

6:07 It was a total glaze piece on The Wall Street Journal because Well... Jeff Horowitz...

6:11 Maybe I wanna watch it now.

6:12 Jeff Horowitz, I mean, sure he's in shape, but let's be honest. Jeremy Allen White, the guy is diced. He's absolutely shredded, and they've made... They cast him as, like, an... Like, ultimate chat.

6:21 There were a bunch of other funny moments where, Jeff Horowitz, the character, the journalist, shows up, and he's like, I don't even have a Facebook. I don't know how to use the GPS stuff in my... He's like the extremely offline guy. And there... And there's a whole bunch of funny funny moments where the benefits of social media are kind of revealed through this because part of it takes place during COVID.

6:44 And the Francis Haugen character is like, oh, yeah. I set up a Facebook group for all these scientists and everyone, like, really understands how serious COVID's gonna be. And and and and the journalist who's, like, offline, like, doesn't care about tech is like, that's a bunch of mumbo jumbo. And then it's just like, wait. Like, you're kinda pitching me the whole idea of, like, the Internet.

7:02 Like, it's like the biology calling COVID so much earlier. Like, there Yep. Clearly are some benefits here. Oh, they have this funny moment where they're like, Mark Zuckerberg has a bulletproof couch, and they're framing it as like, look at how weird this guy is. And it's the meme, like, literal coolest thing ever.

7:18 Like, this thing sucks. Because I'm watching them. I'm like, bulletproof couch. That's amazing.

7:23 A couch that's always watching your back. Yeah.

7:25 So the idea is that you can hide under it. And and and they kind of frame it as like he's being a coward by having it, because like you should obviously like charge straight into the hail of gunfire if you're being attacked. But... And they're like, he would be hiding behind his...

7:37 But did I not kinda call this like two months ago that no one would care at all about the the whole premise of this movie anymore? Yeah. Like the the the whole... The the the narrative Yeah. Like, even the the media itself is so far moved on Yeah.

7:52 That they... I would have liked to see this kind of production

7:58 Yeah.

7:58 On the current AI race. Yeah. Right? And I think we're getting something like that with artificial. Yeah.

8:05 But it's interesting because, like, the social network Yeah. I don't know I don't know if I can say this. This is a cult classic.

8:12 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was a it was a box office success as well.

8:16 But it became a success. Within tech, it's like it's a classic. It was so it was so influential on the culture, sort of had the opposite effect that that the the the the makers of the film maybe wanted it to have where everyone was like, I wanna be like Zach. Yeah. I wanna be that guy.

8:33 At least at least on the inside of the industry. And and and in some ways, like, I could imagine that that Zach and his team were were worried about Totally. This movie because the last one was, like, such a hit outside... In the outside world and within the tech industry, and they've had to... It was, like, I'm sure hard to reinvent, like, Zac or figure out who he was outside of, you know, the...

8:56 At at some point in the twenty tens, it felt like he was just becoming the character. He was looking more and more like the character in the movie in some ways, like, almost like becoming... Wait. When? This was, like, late...

9:06 Yeah. And then PT has that idea that it's it's funny and ironic that Mark Zuckerberg became the Justin Timberlake character from the movie.

9:18 Yeah. Or that or that was... That was... But it was, like, so influential on it was so influential on the industry and especially the next generation of founders that it seemed like it had an influence on Zac Oh, yeah. Like Tristell.

9:30 I don't know.

9:31 Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. I mean, it definitely it definitely feels like the the the post 2020 UFC, like, you know...

9:39 Yeah. That that was like, wait, who am I? Who do I wanna be? Yeah. I have to figure out.

9:43 And it created a ton of distance because the Jeremy Strong character, it feels like it's completely different person. Then he also... Jeremy Strong reads as kind of older, but he's playing a much younger character than what you see on Cheeky Pint, who's like actually Jeremy Strong's age, but has become something else. So, yeah, there's a whole bunch of interesting weird things. Yeah.

10:02 There's also a bunch of things where you're like, oh, that just doesn't that doesn't... That's not how things work. Like, there's a scene where Mark Zuckerberg is like addressing the board and explaining how the algorithm will work. And he's like, emoji reactions will be worth five points, and retweets will be worth 50 points. And it's like, seen as like, oh my god.

10:22 He designed the algorithm for controversy. And it's like, that's... You know that the algorithm's like 12 levels deep. It's like, he goes to Adam Messiery, who goes to the chief technology officer, goes to VP of engineering, who says, like, okay. What are we doing? He's like, well, we created this optimization pipeline for retention that balances all these things. It's a bunch of it's a bunch of data, and we have no idea what's going on in the black box, but we saw the retention went up. There's no there's no one at Facebook who's like, add another three points to retweets or reposts or whatever shares. It's like it's like more more signal than can be humanly understood, for sure. Also, it's just hilarious, view of, like, Hollywood's perception of tech that, like, the final shot of Mark Zuckerberg is him sitting in front of, like, a 42 inch TV in this, like, war room.

11:10 And he's just, like, sitting there like this, and he's just watching code scroll by. Just, like, really fast code scrolling by. And it's like, why would you be reviewing code at extreme speeds during, like... It happens during, like, January 6. It's like, that's not how you monitor a situation.

11:26 Like Yeah. You could just open Instagram.

11:28 Yeah. Yeah. And then also, like, they go through the Trump ban in this weird way where it's very much it's framed as, like, his decision. And it's like, if you were if you were paying attention on that day, it's, like, very clear that all of the different tech CEOs were, like, in a group chat together talking about, like, hey, if we're gonna do this, we all gotta do it at once because, like, otherwise, we will be, you know, singled out as, like, the one that did that did it. So there's a bunch of interesting things.

11:51 And, yeah, also very weird that, like, Aaron Sorkin, like, seems to be under the impression that Frances Haugen and Jeff Horowitz, like, had a romance of some sort, like, which they deny. And Jeff Horwitz was like, Erin Sorkin, please don't make it seem like it was romantic. We were... I would... She was my source, and we just worked together on this, but we weren't romantically involved.

12:14 And there's like so many scenes where you're like, okay, they're trying to make... They're kinda making it look like they're gonna date. And then they like sail off into the sunset, and you're like, oh, so did they get married? And you look it up, and it's like, no, they were both married to other people. Anyway, funny movie.

12:28 But the big news, of course, is Meta. Zuck says Meta has reached the frontier with its new muse wonder agent. What was the exact line? He said he said he he don't No.

12:40 Let's get into we'll get into that. Let's talk Okay. Go back about

12:42 to it. So this is from the Financial Times. Mark Zuckerberg says Meta has reached the AI frontier. Feet interview tech billionaire touts release of new Muse Wonder model after vast spending to challenge rivals in AI race. Let me tell you about CrowdStrike.

12:55 Your business is AI. Their business is securing it. CrowdStrike secures AI and stops reaches. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, speaking with the Feet, as Meta released its Muse Wonder AI model on Monday, this is watermelon, right? Everyone's doing the fruit thing. Was strawberry, and then there's banana, and now there's watermelon. He said the new system was going to allow much more sophisticated behaviors that are at the frontier of what's being done in the AI field. Group the Silicon Valley Group claims Muse Wonder outperforms or performs better than comparable models released by Anthropic and OpenAI in some tasks according to technical benchmarks. The release marks a major milestone for Zuckerberg, who, since last year, has committed billions of dollars to shake up Meta's AI leadership, build vast data centers and hire star AI researchers on multimillion dollar salaries, all in a bid to keep pace with OpenAI, Anthropic and Google.

13:45 Getting to this point required both a large amount of compute and investment and a lot of very rigorous scientific work by the group working on it over an extended period of time. So he's bullish. He's posting on X about it. What's your take, Jordy?

14:00 I was trying to understand how Mark and Alex, like, really felt about the model by watching Cheeky Pint. Yeah. On the on the drive to work today, I was listening. Great to have Cheeky Pint back. Yeah.

14:15 I thought that they were all, like, I mean, this was the most candid I've ever seen suck.

14:20 That's great.

14:20 Like, he felt like he was just hanging out, having a beer Yeah. Trying to have a couple beers. Yeah. And so I thought I thought it was great. Tyler

14:30 He did. Tyler cataloged it.

14:31 He did. How many exactly, Tyler? You think that's more? Was 1.4 pints.

14:35 1.4? Okay.

14:36 Okay. And and I will just go out and say, as somebody who's had a couple drinks while recording a podcast, as we would celebrate whenever we would double way back in the day. Yep. I certainly... We always felt that the content just got worse.

14:51 Totally.

14:51 Like, it was like... Each sip, it was getting, like, a little bit worse. Yeah. So we basically...

14:56 No. It's a funny idea. You could call looser. It'll be better content, but that's just not what happens. You're just not as sharp.

15:01 You're just not as sharp.

15:02 Like, you're just Period not as sharp. And and I... Yeah. It wasn't like... Suddenly, was like, you you...

15:07 There's no reason... We're here for three hours.

15:09 So if you're gonna do it, you gotta practice. You gotta you gotta be drinking

15:12 Yeah. Six to twelve minutes. I'm if I'm Zuck and I have to launch this new model family and talk about views and all these things, you gotta give him credit because either one, he was practicing having like 10 beers a day so that when he had 1.4, he was still feeling like sharp. Like

15:31 Probably to imagine tolerance. He built up

15:32 his Yeah. But either way, ballsy to come on and just start throwing him back. So yeah, was trying to understand, you know, the benchmarks are all amazing. Mhmm. Muse is a great product.

15:48 Yep.

15:48 People love it. They like manage by by being like later movers. They manage to solve a bunch of problems.

15:55 Totally.

15:56 And like created just a more compelling user experience. I thought it was cool. They're even talking about how they even talk about their experience with like Open Claw. Sure. Which was cool.

16:04 But I was trying to... If you actually listen to the wording, Zuck's wording, he said... The the quote that stood out to me, and I had to play it back. He said, This is the beginning of like MSL kind of being at the frontier. Is the beginning of Just

16:22 turn it on.

16:23 Like MSL kind of being at the frontier I mean, it's so hard. At minute the 20 mark. Brother Collison then said, so you think this is Astra or Fable level? Yeah. And then Alex and Zuck kind of both, like, fight over each other for a second, which can't knock them for.

16:39 We do the same thing.

16:40 Yeah. Yeah. We just

16:41 do But then they said by looking at the benchmarks, one would conclude that, which to me is like, yeah. We all see the benchmarks. They look amazing. Yeah. We all...

16:51 But you've been accused of benchmarking before, and so we all wanna...

16:54 No. No. I don't think they've been accused of bench maxing before. Oh, maybe like early... I mean,

16:58 Like everyone went through this with with Spark kind of

17:01 a of Maybe.

17:02 Spark's bench, you know.

17:03 Okay.

17:03 But it's not like... And and so to me, it's it's like, so you think this is asked for a fable level and then you answer by looking at the benchmarks, one would conclude that. So so again, like, I don't think that they are actually based on a few of these factors. Yeah. I don't think they're I don't think they're really at the frontier.

17:21 Okay.

17:23 And I think it will become pretty obvious that that's the case. Yeah. As people...

17:27 I mean, these things always like the the the crown goes back and forth so quickly. Like, they're, you know, they've been working on this for a long time. Launched it. Who knows what the other labs have up their sleeves to fire back, etcetera. I but I do think the language is odd because it feels like there's pretty little downside to just being like, yeah, is a fable class model, and just use the anthropic terminology because everyone has an idea of what Fable means.

17:52 It's like big model, know, really expensive. And you're like, yeah, we're giving this away. We we we're it in the same category, but it's basically free because it's integrated into the product.

18:03 And... But here's here's what here's what is...

18:05 And we

18:05 caught it. I think here's what I think is interesting.

18:07 And then

18:07 people can quibble over, like, the...

18:08 I think you have to be way more excited about you have to be way more excited about what MSL is doing

18:13 Yeah.

18:14 Than than Google or or SpaceX at this point. Yeah. And you have to give, like, everyone should be giving Mark credit for that. If you're thinking about rewinding a year, even after the talent raids

18:26 Yeah.

18:26 Hey, a year from now, you're gonna be more excited and more interested about MS... What MSL is doing than Google and x AI, SpaceX. Yeah. You know, this was this was pre merger, but... Yeah.

18:40 So, yeah, they're they're competitive.

18:42 For sure. Heating. For sure. Yeah. It is interesting that that SpaceX has yet to launch a model.

18:49 Elon's been very very cautious with the words on, like, when the progress will come from that team on Grok and different versions. But obviously, they have Cursor. They have a great team inside, so you would think that there'd be more progress there. But he's been sort of downplaying it a little bit more. But, yeah, it's interesting.

19:08 The big debate the funny thing about the interaction with like the meta universe and the EA world is, mean, going back to the movie, there's this moment where somebody asks Frances Haugen, what percentage of teenage girls having a bad experience on Instagram would be acceptable to you? Like, developing body image issues. And she's like, two percent. Maybe one percent. She, like, backtracks it, and they're like, it's thirty four percent.

19:37 That's like a bombshell. But from, like, an EA perspective, it's like, oh, so, like, potentially net good if, like, if, like, 46% are positively impacted and only 34% are negatively impacted. It's like, you take that trade all day long because it, like, maths out in the spreadsheet. Not how people actually think about things, but it really goes to show you how how different philosophical how how different philosophically some of the some of the worlds are right now. And and this is like the the the AI safety world is, like, colliding with Mark Zuckerberg right now.

20:08 Like, Andrew Curran summed it up. He said, pacing is out the window. For it to work, every American lab needed to be on board. Mark Zuckerberg has repeatedly made it clear that he is not interested. One defection among U. S. Labs breaks it all, as the others will be forced to accelerate or get passed. Mark has a staggering amount of compute and has been all in on compute CapEx for years, even in the face of some investor opposition. He never stopped building his infra once. He said on the earnings call a couple years ago that he'd rather overspend now and potentially even be wrong than not have the compute when he needed it for the next 10x.

20:42 He's finally hitting his stride, and he's not going to slow down for team pacing to solve a defection like this. They would have needed a supportive pro pacing administration that was passing capable capability regulations and was willing to use the power of the federal government to enforce them and bring non compliant labs into line. They don't have any of this. In fact, it's the opposite. Marques Trump's ear, President Trump, Mark Zuckerberg, Jensen are all completely aligned on policy.

21:06 It's full speed ahead. And if you wanna pace yourself, go ahead, but don't tell anyone else what to do. That... This breaks pacing. And so the interesting thing is, like, the... They're like, are we on the frontier? Are we not? There are benefits to being on the frontier from a prosumer adoption perspective. Like, people will be like, oh, I gotta try the new model. It's Fable class.

21:25 Or it's it's it's Astra, but it's cheaper. Or it's Astra, but it's integrated with Instagram. People will be excited to try that. But if you actually say, like, now we're on the frontier. We're the most important AI lab. It's like, okay. So what are you doing about the potential problems from AI? Like, now you're the one getting the hard questions about that stuff. Being like a strong second, a strong third actually gives you a little bit of cover because you can say, oh, well, like the, you know, the most dangerous stuff, like, yeah, like, Muse Wonder is great at coding, but you can't build bio weapons. Like, that's not that's not anything.

21:56 Like, we'll see that emerge at the frontier labs first. We'll see those problems confronted by Yeah. Anthropology. That's one of

22:02 the reasons that's one of the reasons why you can say, like, they're not at the frontier because the researchers that are at the frontier sometimes They're freaking out. Sometimes have this, like, you know you know, stare where you're like, oh, you've seen things Yeah. That know... You've seen man made horrors, you know, beyond Beyond all comprehension. Yeah.

22:20 Let's pull up this video on Saturday, Zach. Zach went live.

22:24 He went back to the barbecue.

22:25 Went back to the barbecue. Back to the

22:27 egg. Wow.

22:28 Let's pull up this video. Let's get some sound on. Yeah, Tank. We're smoking sausage. Smoke whatever the fuck we want.

22:35 Wow. Okay. So Is this real? This is not AI.

22:42 I I was just a boy Yeah. During this era, he didn't used to, like, post selfie videos during the social network.

22:49 Well, he was in and out of going direct through the entire journey.

22:55 Okay.

22:55 So

22:55 he, like because, like, part of the reason that this new... The new Yeah. The new movie doesn't hit

23:01 Yeah.

23:02 Is because you just see Zuck all the time Yep. Talking to people. Totally. And he'll go on podcasts

23:07 And a couple times more. Could do an impression of the new Zuck and make fun of him and do a more exaggerated version of this character and poke fun at the quirks of this character. But it's a completely different vector of, like, comedic attack than the previous arc. Yeah. It's funny that they're talking about deploying capital for AI spend, and and Alex is like, you have to make this very large investment.

23:30 You have to make big decisions about how you're going to invest and develop the technology before you know that there's data to support this. And it's funny because you go back and listen to Dario on DoorDash, and he's like, there's these people that are just yellowing. And everyone's like, oh, he's talking about OpenAI. But, it's like, oh, no. He was actually...

23:48 He was talking about Meta too. And it was absolutely the right thing to do. So it's just funny. Yeah.

23:54 It seems that way so far, but I... This didn't... Yeah. The the... Using, like, this line to try to criticize Zach's management style is, like, he's always operated the business this way.

24:04 Yep. He's always been willing to bet the company. Yeah. He's always been willing to invest more. He did he did this with the metaverse. Think... I don't think if you look back, it's like......

24:11 Company if you're just spending...

24:12 Yeah. Not betting not betting the company. He's just like...... Not the right word.

24:15 He'll just be like, I have this cash machine, and I'm going to spend it. Like, he actually treats $10,000,000,000 like it's $10 because he makes a $200,000,000,000. You

24:22 know? Yeah.

24:23 And, like, to him, it's like, you know, a nice car. Yep. And for other people.

24:27 And I I just never thought that with the metaverse, he was like, oh, like, this this is a 100% gonna work, so that's why we're gonna invest so much. It was like, there's a chance that this is the next paradigm on a shorter time horizon than the rest of the world thinks, and we're gonna invest against that. Yeah. And it's okay if it doesn't work out. Clearly, the company has been fine.

24:45 It is remarkable how how quick companies can catch up in AI, can can get another foothold, can train a new model, can get near the frontier or to the frontier with enough effort, versus metaverse and VR, where, you know, Microsoft says HoloLens and, like, it didn't really go anywhere. And, like, Apple, when are they gonna fire back with the next Visionaire or Vision Pro or something? It's just completely... When you're when you're operating in the domain of pure software, things move so much faster. Anyway, speaking of Apple, Apple just announced HomeView, a $299 smart home hub.

25:22 John Turnis posted it on x. Let's play the video, and I wanna know, are you in the market for this? Looks like a big Apple Watch, like the rounded rectangle or the rounded square. You're spinning like it? Yeah. We heard about this, and I thought it was gonna be much more like the Pixar lamp, like, with an articulated arm. It has a much simpler design to it. I think it just swivels, and then you can manually adjust it up and down. But I guess it can follow you around the room if you put on a kitchen island, and they're touting the new Apple intelligence, and they think that will catch up. It is interesting how what they will have to do to catch up to Muse and Instinct and Dot and GrockBot.

26:04 Like, there are several AI agent products that are barely fully featured at this point, and they all have pros and cons based on what they integrate with. Apple has an incredible integration point and an incredible model partner with Gemini. I think if you if you went to know a Shen and said you can only use DeepMind models, but they're free, he would say, yeah. Game on. Like, I I I can build a great product.

26:29 But, it'll be interesting to see, like, when do they have

26:34 Yeah.

26:34 The, hey. Go and go and, you know, plan a birthday party, reserve... Make a reservation, create the invite, send it out to all my friends, and, you know, just come to me with the key decision making questions. And and I don't want to be involved. I want you to actually do this agentically.

26:54 That that functionality,

26:56 that Yeah. Ability

26:57 me, it's feels far off.

26:58 It screams, you know, it screams stagnation.

27:00 Okay.

27:01 And, yeah, it's hard to get excited about this. I would be... So here's here's where I would get excited, John. If Apple actually... And maybe this is where they're going.

27:10 Yep. If Apple was committed to actually making this device be able to control all of the electronics around my house from, like, my gates to cameras to lights to HVAC, all that kind of thing

27:25 Yep.

27:25 I would be extremely excited. Because the current system I have in my house is like some random tablet thing. I don't even know who makes it Sure. Attached to the wall Yeah. And it controls everything and the software is really bad.

27:36 Yeah. If they were gonna actually... Is that what they're doing, or is this literally just like a half iPad, half computer that sits on your kitchen counter?

27:45 Yeah. It's not bad. Okay. So And that functionality exists. Like, Astra or Fable can, like, straight up reverse engineer the API to your garage door clicker and make it work on the smart home, but then they bump into the OS layer all over the place.

28:03 But I think they're gonna reverse engineer that too. Think I think, the end the end state might be buy this and jailbreak it and run your own software that's, you know, sort of instantiated on the fly or forked from something. But in terms of industrial design, looks pretty nice.

28:21 I don't Yeah. Really solving a problem that no one has? Let

28:29 me tell you about the New York Stock Exchange. How long changed the world? Raise capital at the New York Stock Exchange.

28:34 John. John needed to break the ice, so he ran another ad for the New York Stock Exchange.

28:40 Oh, I did. Sorry.

28:43 Yeah. Solving a problem that I don't have. You know when you're FaceTiming and you need the phone to follow you around the room and it's hard to hold it because you're cooking and you want it and you want the camera to follow you around the room. Yeah. We built the solution for that.

28:59 So Meta had a product that competed with this called the portal. Yeah. Same thing.

29:03 And I was... I like that for the name. It's portal time, baby.

29:06 Yeah. I I actually did get a bunch of them for family members during COVID, and we used them, like, once. And then and then they started collecting dust. They worked as like picture friends basically, but they they they did not become like the smart home. Although maybe they should bring that back now that they have muse.

29:24 Yeah. And I'd just be curious how Apple thinks about this. Is this like yeah. We have enough customers that, like, a million people will buy this. Yeah.

29:31 Like, does it actually move anything? I I would just like to... Yeah. I would love to see that, like, really bold bet on, like, we are actually gonna provide iPhone level software Yeah. For your entire home. Some big news on the timeline. What happened? OpenAI discovered a sophisticated recording device that was hidden inside, one of their offices. They used models to understand the device and where it came from, identifying that a specific employee had planted it a few days earlier. We referred the matter to the s...

29:57 FBI, and we're grateful to the agents and prosecutors who moved quickly to make an arrest. The FBI's investigation is ongoing, and we will continue to support their work. Just reading the OpenAI newsroom. At this time, we have no indications of this individual inappropriately accessing or exfiltrating model weight source code or customer data. The employee was terminated.

30:20 We take protecting our technology, data, and people seriously. And as a matter of national importance, our security program is designed to protect against a wide range of threat actors from insider risk to cyber criminals to nation states. And this case is an example of how an AI... Of how AI can help address these sophisticated security threats. Federal prosecutors say an employee from Saudi Arabia planted an audio recorder and left another unattended in his bag.

30:48 I'm not gonna be able to fully pronounce this. Abdulrahman Al Fazan, a Saudi national, was arrested Friday and charged with using or attempting to use a device to intercept oral communications. He made his initial appearance in federal This court

31:07 photo is crazy. Today.

31:08 They have a camera back there that caught it? What is going on?

31:11 Well, no. Was this maybe his own device

31:13 And then

31:14 they... That he recorded himself with?

31:15 Maybe. I don't know. I don't know why you need video from behind the TV. That's very odd.

31:19 No. But it was a... It said it was a recording device.

31:22 I thought it would just be audio.

31:24 I know. But maybe it just happened to...

31:25 Well, that's crazy. Crazy. Crazy. Interesting.

31:30 Yeah. Really really wild.

31:31 You wanted to be a fly on the wall for the wrong reasons. You gotta be in those meetings just for the mindset like like our our our friend the poster who wanted to be on the fly on the wall at the White House dinner. You know, this is this is very, very crazy. Really underscores like the stakes here that they're like

31:47 Yeah.

31:47 Potentially like nation states and spies afoot. All sorts of crazy, crazy stuffing going on in the AI race. We'll see you tomorrow at 11AM Pacific. Sign up for our newsletter at tbpn.com. Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

32:02 You. Bye. And we'll see you tomorrow. Cheers. Bye.