Episode 160 – The White Scars – The creation of the 5th Legion, their transformation to the Star Hunters, and the evolution of Jaghati Khan.

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Forty K-Lorecast. [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Fort Hill, or cast with me, John Barsodian, Brett Chester. [SPEAKER_01]: This guy, today we'll be starting our coverage of the white scars. [SPEAKER_01]: They exist, remember? [SPEAKER_01]: Then, that army, you may have heard of them at some point, maybe.

[SPEAKER_01]: Soon, soon. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: From their inception as a legion, really by the emperor, his original design for them, all the way through the early purpose of them, through Jagatai Khan, and just really the story of him and Jagorus. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's call it what it really is.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty badass at that, so. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: If it is casket brought to you by stealing from history, because oh my god, oh my god, there's so much in here that's just a ripoff Genghis Khan. [SPEAKER_01]: Not even like mild to it. [SPEAKER_00]: They just were like, oh, you don't think that you're totally okay with your Ultramarines being the Roman Empire, but you're not okay with the Bible.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we'll go through it. [SPEAKER_01]: The differences, the stories of Ultramarines didn't involve this much plagiarizing one book and writing it down over here and changing a name. [SPEAKER_01]: There are actions, my ultra, my ultra reads plagiarized multiple books and there are actions done by the white scars that are almost verbatim What gang is did like you try reading them like yeah, I've read this before and we're going to but [SPEAKER_01]: 40K lower cast weekly showing the lower we're on the 40K universe releasing every Monday at 7 p.m. Eastern.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So you can catch the old version of the cast, releasing about [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be releasing two of those a week until we catch up and then they'll go to once a week once I run out of that catalog. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll over you guys. [SPEAKER_01]: Actually you're in half. [SPEAKER_00]: That's just what.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's just what it's name. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's about seven. [SPEAKER_00]: You got some time, bro. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like 14 or 15 months. [SPEAKER_01]: I did the math, but also if you'd like to show you went here more of Brad, you can check out his channel, the Brad channel.

[SPEAKER_01]: We talked about compared to 40k. [SPEAKER_01]: Just about what's going on. [SPEAKER_01]: What makes it good? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm going to run a contest to pull in our discord to see when I should actually name my channel. [SPEAKER_01]: It would be good. [SPEAKER_01]: The action [SPEAKER_01]: I'll have to change the link, but that's fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: In addition, if you look sent in my voice and not Brad's voice, you can check out my show Retro Recall where I talk about old video games and my pseudo-loved for a lot of them. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm discovering that I mostly like the eclectic ones. [SPEAKER_01]: Every time I cover Mario Bros. or Mega Man, I find it boring.

[SPEAKER_01]: But when I cover wildly random game that no one ever played, yeah, super into it. [SPEAKER_01]: No, sometimes I do 60 data tax up for the win. [SPEAKER_01]: If you like us though and you want to help us out, two great ways to do it. [SPEAKER_01]: One, go to our newly redone website, the 40K Lordcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can find our merchandise there. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, just sold to Etsy, but that's a side note for a different day. [SPEAKER_01]: Or Patreon. [SPEAKER_01]: Patreon's really are a wonderful thing in general. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a great way to support artists and people that you like.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have one if you want hop on in you get this show and the history of 40k completely ad free and for that For those nine nine cents a month or 4.46 euros because you like horse racing bribery and good food Yeah [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I got to CNN every time, literally, I swing back through because it's one of the most beautiful places.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I just like it there. [SPEAKER_01]: It's Southern Central Tuscany. [SPEAKER_01]: They call it Central Tuscany, but given that Florence and Pisa and Luca are all north of it, I consider it Southern, because that's where I usually am. [SPEAKER_01]: Like all of these towns, mostly, it dates back to Roman times, but it got a big glow to the Middle Ages, so 14th century towers, great duomo, and yet these nice hills behind it, so it's just really beautiful place.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there's also randomly the mummified head of St. Catherine is there. [SPEAKER_01]: The rest of her body is in Rome, but they kept their head. [SPEAKER_01]: How? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, but they did, and proud of them for it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's also it's tuscany. [SPEAKER_01]: So the food's better deal with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I'm not a big fan of pun for today much like Panathon. [SPEAKER_01]: I already do it. [SPEAKER_01]: But peachy, peachy is fantastic, especially in a cateau. [SPEAKER_01]: So you go there, get the peachy. [SPEAKER_01]: Get it. [SPEAKER_01]: I would do a cateau pet with it, but do whatever you want.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there's also Gianti. [SPEAKER_01]: So Paba. [SPEAKER_01]: The real reason you go to Siena, well, if you're there twice a year, is for the Palio. [SPEAKER_01]: The race occurs twice a year on Due, Lujio, and Settichio Augusto. [SPEAKER_01]: It was a year, two times you can catch it, if you kept it with those at there, that sucks.

[SPEAKER_01]: And a polite way of describing the Palio would be a unporto grotto. [SPEAKER_01]: Because this race lasts 90 seconds, it's 10 horses running on a circle in the middle of the town, and each of the 17 neighborhoods puts a horse up. [SPEAKER_01]: So you can tell, now all of them get in. [SPEAKER_01]: And the winner just is the winner.

[SPEAKER_01]: You get nothing for it. [SPEAKER_01]: You just win. [SPEAKER_01]: But they take this thing seriously. [SPEAKER_01]: bribery is a key part of the race because a neighbor who raises money, then they give it to the writer who then bribes the other writers to either lose or take out the other writers.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm already all the way in. [SPEAKER_01]: And the best part about all this is no one actually cares about the writer because when you win and you have your banquet, the horse is the guest of honor, not the jockey. [SPEAKER_01]: And even better part is basically the influence for Taladeg and Knights because the greatest shame in the entirety of this race is coming in second.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's it. [SPEAKER_01]: You coming 10th everyone's fine. [SPEAKER_00]: You're either first to your last row. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: No one wants to be the first loser. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I love this thing. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's like going back to Italy because it's fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: So lastly, though, I was always check our discord link in the notes. [SPEAKER_01]: Come join our discord, like 13,000 people. [SPEAKER_01]: I think now it depends on when you listen to this cast, but there's a lot of people in our discord and it's been really good for law and literacy. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: That's been thinking on that one, kids. [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of great stuff, lower fan theories, literature, good way, did record Brad and I. [SPEAKER_01]: Coming during discord, let's have fun. [SPEAKER_00]: But when did that, the shooting on Toledo channel? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was my favorite channel.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was, that was, that was a good time. [SPEAKER_01]: Sock. [SPEAKER_01]: No, Toledo sucks. [SPEAKER_01]: Let me show you a secret. [SPEAKER_01]: And entire community got together to talk about how bad your town is. [SPEAKER_01]: That's bad. [SPEAKER_01]: No, you don't. [SPEAKER_01]: You just don't.

[SPEAKER_00]: Domination. [SPEAKER_00]: everything. [SPEAKER_00]: We're like the Highlander of movies with the wheel and the Oscar for the best of all movie of all time. [SPEAKER_01]: You're a homemade Highland movie. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's talk about this. [SPEAKER_01]: So the white scars. [SPEAKER_01]: Here's a good question.

[SPEAKER_01]: If GW is in cut about them, why should you? [SPEAKER_01]: And it actually is kind of a true statement. [SPEAKER_01]: The white scars are a weird legion in the lore in that we know the least about them and according to GW, that's on purpose. [SPEAKER_01]: Because from their inception, they're meant to be basically the inverse of the space walls.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a faction that no one would really pay attention to and they would do all their stuff in secretive to no glory, not dark angels in secretive because we're actually doing stuff for us both. [SPEAKER_01]: We're doing, but just like, hey, yeah, we serve a purpose, but it's a small purpose and a grandeur purpose.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so there are no skulls written about the white scars. [SPEAKER_00]: which they really miss Yadan, do you know what's awesome? [SPEAKER_00]: An awesome song about awesome you are. [SPEAKER_01]: Space will style. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: The best thing I've ever heard of is Ballad.

[SPEAKER_00]: Epic Ballads. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the space walls were like themselves and space walls. [SPEAKER_01]: One of my fans where they should, they are the Stanley Tucci of the legions. [SPEAKER_01]: They are never a lead, but they're in almost everything. [SPEAKER_01]: That's where this, they're really good supporting actor.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because they are, the white scars who are in the sub-at world crusades, the McCaring Crusades, like Anthos Campaign, third word of Armageddon, like non-stop. [SPEAKER_01]: They are in lots and lots of stuff, but they're almost never the lead character. [SPEAKER_01]: So there you go. [SPEAKER_01]: They are a full chapter, though.

[SPEAKER_01]: They've done this. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, they were full legions. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, and they're one of the most going to crap stuff on some chapters. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was looking through when we're leading up to this, I was pulling out my whole supplement, the white scarists, some months, because I have all of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I've been seventh edition of the eighth edition of stuff like that. [SPEAKER_00]: And they got a little bit more. [SPEAKER_00]: What's it? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they had everybody had something in seventh, but then that's all of the chapters got an eighth edition book. [SPEAKER_00]: So, in that one, the, but one of the things is is that they're lent out, and I even lent out.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a bad word for it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: They send exactly what they're supposed to be. [SPEAKER_00]: You are the, they just send, they send out a little bit of whatever the hell they think they're going to need. [SPEAKER_00]: They're all over the place, though. [SPEAKER_00]: I was looking through like a lot of their battles and their wars.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're, [SPEAKER_00]: Like you were saying a little bit, you were saying a little bit earlier, it's they're in everything, but they never send like a huge not net never. [SPEAKER_00]: Most of the time, they don't send a giant. [SPEAKER_00]: Contention of here. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, here's what I'll start.

[SPEAKER_01]: The thing about the white scars is even when the white scars air quotes here win a major campaign is in one of their main generals as part of it. [SPEAKER_01]: They are rarely the only force there. [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas with space wolves, obviously ultramarines, black templar, obviously, but even some of the other ones, they can often be the main player and they're then plus some guard.

[SPEAKER_01]: The white scars will cover it more than a third cast, it's very rare that they did that much of it. [SPEAKER_01]: So, let's talk about the origins. [SPEAKER_01]: Now. [SPEAKER_01]: all the legions, date back to obviously unification wars. [SPEAKER_01]: So the emperor is planning his conquest of the galaxy, based on it terror.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he starts a fun experiment. [SPEAKER_01]: And I actually like this experiment. [SPEAKER_01]: He starts off with the custodes. [SPEAKER_01]: And the problem with the custodes is that they're way too complicated to create at like 0.01% success rate. [SPEAKER_01]: So for other custodes, do predate Thunder Warriors, but least couldn't make enough of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then he next, the thunder also needed a shit ton of people to make one. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's the point. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, they'll die. [SPEAKER_01]: The flip side is to the custodial, like a 0.01% success rate, it's the best I can find in historically. [SPEAKER_01]: Thunder wars are like a 90% success rate, but they're all crazy people who drew and murder.

[SPEAKER_01]: So then that doesn't work. [SPEAKER_01]: So then he settles in on the Astardase project, which is the kind of like blend of the two. [SPEAKER_01]: And with them, he's able to get enough super soldiers who actually can be super soldiers. [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't want to break in leash or other orders, but he can make them a quantity that allows them to actually conquer the stars.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because he kind of needs bodies. [SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, he also started to make them a little bit different because a million soldiers who all do the same thing is boring. [SPEAKER_01]: So instead, he starts designing each lesion to do little things. [SPEAKER_01]: So we've got to start with the first lesion, the eighth lesion.

[SPEAKER_01]: 13th, they all have a purpose. [SPEAKER_01]: And the white scars, which are the fifth lesion, obviously, are one of them. [SPEAKER_01]: and I will point out the white scars is a big benefit I want to give them. [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of the other legions we've talked about were like, oh, there are super stealthy legions.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're so are these two others. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, these guys are really good at frontal assaults. [SPEAKER_01]: So are these two others. [SPEAKER_01]: It comes up pretty consistently. [SPEAKER_01]: The white scars are actually to their credit unique. [SPEAKER_01]: Their skill set doesn't repeat unless maybe the second 11th or two.

[SPEAKER_00]: Can we talk about their original super dumb name? [SPEAKER_00]: What? [SPEAKER_00]: The fifth legion? [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: The star hunters. [SPEAKER_01]: That wasn't their original name. [SPEAKER_01]: That was the third name. [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't become a star hunters, they didn't come to the unification wars.

[SPEAKER_01]: They split it off. [SPEAKER_01]: They can't send out. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: They started off well before then. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm saying. [SPEAKER_01]: So they started off on Terra as a really weird thing because, and I like this because this time, I didn't realize that you read the White Scarce books.

[SPEAKER_01]: One of the issues to remember is when the Emperor is getting together and he's doing his unification war. [SPEAKER_01]: all of Earth is covered by techno barbarians who are warlords. [SPEAKER_01]: And these guys are not, the emperor is the emperor. [SPEAKER_01]: But the other barbarian warlords while nowhere near as powerful as the emperor still did control a lot of stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: Use to the max also though, the lot of these guys were super, super souped up with dark age of technology gear all over them. [SPEAKER_00]: Some of these guys were full robots, almost men of iron type guys. [SPEAKER_00]: We talked about the unification battles [SPEAKER_00]: And the White Skars come into this a big, well, whatever, they weren't White Skars yet, but they started, they kept doing the same thing, which was the Emperor sent them out to just harass people.

[SPEAKER_00]: A lot, like he would before, he would, and they continued this in the Unication Wars, we're going to a more. [SPEAKER_00]: But like that was their original, it was just, hey, go over here and bother this warlord with super fast moving attacks and basically sticking moves, sticking moves, sticking [SPEAKER_01]: It was beyond bother to be, it was also scout because one of the problems that what he was trying to achieve was these more lords would have Fortresses you couldn't penetrate and He needed to know first off where the warlord was, but also see could draw him out a little bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so the original fifth legions job was to go out Track to their original hunters. [SPEAKER_01]: Why make sense for the later's of them? [SPEAKER_01]: Really there's hunters trying to track down where is the prey and then the emperor would come and clamp down them because it's one of those are controlling continents [SPEAKER_01]: It's very large areas, and so what he would do is, though, fifth legion would go out and to Brad's point, they would scout, then they would sort of harassing them to try and get them to come out a little bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Where are you? [SPEAKER_01]: Show me your forces. [SPEAKER_01]: What technology do you even have? [SPEAKER_01]: And then, once they would show it, it would allow the emperor to figure out how much force to throw at somebody and also exactly what he needed to throw at them, because again, he did have specialized troops.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he would figure out who needed to show up for each one, depending on what they're using. [SPEAKER_01]: And also, at times, it figured out who he could conquer and who he had to kill, because some of these guys would reply back with levels of technology and more importantly, chaos technology that the emperor went, nope, they all die.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it looks like you got to be cut down. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, we're using the old, put to the flame technique on this one. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what's your diplomacy level, burn it all down? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, another crazy thing about this that they talk about in the early ones is that when the fifth legion was going out, a lot of these areas that these warlords lived in were so toxic and so horrific that he couldn't send anyone but a super soldier because it was die.

[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, a lot of the fifth legion did die this, because the amount of radiation was insane. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's pretty obvious the writers had watched a lot of Mad Max beyond Thunderdome and Road Warrior, probably too much of it, if I'm being honest, but yeah, so he couldn't use his record soldiers.

[SPEAKER_01]: He couldn't even use the assassin clades. [SPEAKER_01]: He had to use his super soldiers. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, for this, Johnson yet annoyed in a second. [SPEAKER_01]: They pulled everyone from the ice-way to the fully embassioned Greenland. [SPEAKER_01]: This is just Greenland. [SPEAKER_01]: And according to the writing, thanks to endless nuclear winters in the planet, this region was even colder than it is today.

[SPEAKER_01]: Which doesn't really work. [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I looked this up. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I looked this up. [SPEAKER_01]: Because when you get an Ice Age, you don't get big arid cold deserts. [SPEAKER_01]: You will get arid deserts. [SPEAKER_01]: The Sahara did exist during the Ice Age, but the Sahara had an average temperature on the 60s.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it just was dry. [SPEAKER_01]: Problem I have with this is when I've read and I've read a lot of GW writing. [SPEAKER_01]: There's entire sections of earth that are like brutally hot. [SPEAKER_01]: You can't have brutally hot and brutally cold. [SPEAKER_01]: That's just not how it works.

[SPEAKER_01]: Saying it now. [SPEAKER_01]: It annoys me. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's decide don't say it now. [SPEAKER_01]: Nope. [SPEAKER_01]: There's ways you've been right here so you can get it correct. [SPEAKER_01]: It's all I'm saying. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, but the people of the region, like everyone, they're pulled, these are Marty Survivors.

[SPEAKER_01]: So these are people who work off the land, minimal resources, and they were smaller tribes. [SPEAKER_01]: And so the Fuleans at the Emperor grabbed were very sturdy people who were also good at kind of just mobility. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not great now, the analogy I can find to modern stuff, but it's just the idea.

[SPEAKER_01]: The idea around them is that they can live off the land really well. [SPEAKER_01]: They can scout. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess there's a bit of Native American in here, but I don't even think it's that. [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter. [SPEAKER_00]: What the original tactics were, one of the go to Mongol tactics was hit a little bit and then leave people would come out, pincer moved and he did that over and over and over again.

[SPEAKER_00]: We do this. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what they did to those fortresses. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: 100% is a thing for three little small groups that the Mongols hit in full force and then fled. [SPEAKER_01]: They did not hit in small groups. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what they this stuff early.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is much more. [SPEAKER_01]: I think meant to be like native American, the idea of kind of a testing something and then disappearing into the forest is more that what the Mongols were there. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but they they've been retreated, but then they would come in in larger forests.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the whole point on there. [SPEAKER_00]: So either way, it's they're doing the same ish, you know, with the come outside so we can actually kill you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, kind of thing. [SPEAKER_01]: But the interesting thing about the fifth though is that they were deployed in very small groups, sometimes as small as by the dozen, but they were a full size faction.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, actually, they weren't originally, they were only in the hundreds of hotels. [SPEAKER_00]: They were small. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: When they get sent out in the unification way, and in that the unification was, but in the great crusade, they still were broke into. [SPEAKER_00]: There were a full region, but they were broken to a lot of small things.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when they became the star hunters on this. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so what happens is initially, there's a lot of pride in this because they become the super scouts of the Imperium. [SPEAKER_01]: They are the emperors unseen warriors, they go out and they do all the actions, no one else is willing to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they get no glory, they get no recognition for it, but they're happy with it because they're going into enemy territory, trucking on the warlords, harassing and bleeding them. [SPEAKER_01]: But then what they would do is they would just get out of the way when the emperors forces would come in.

[SPEAKER_01]: As a result, though, they also got a lot more autonomy during this era because we're very mad. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll give you this, a ton of these are very nice word for it because it continues on because they were until they get jagged account and kind of afterwards, they were known to just go, yeah, the Emperor didn't tell us specifically to do this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't care what you said. [SPEAKER_00]: And they just kind of do whatever the hell they want. [SPEAKER_00]: After they were told to do something specifically by the Emperor. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they only followed the Emperor. [SPEAKER_01]: Because they were actually at one point called Terrorists forgotten the sons because they would just do stuff for the Emperor.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that was it. [SPEAKER_01]: No glory, no anything. [SPEAKER_01]: We're already worth it. [SPEAKER_01]: Now. [SPEAKER_01]: They do get it's interesting in the writings. [SPEAKER_01]: There's no stories of them in the Great Crusade directly. [SPEAKER_01]: There's no stories of them in the Unification Wars directly.

[SPEAKER_01]: There are just mentions of them doing stuff like they're the Ursh, which is one of the rougher ones the Emperor to deal with. [SPEAKER_01]: The fifth legion actually went underground and in 83 days siege through the catacombs underneath the city. [SPEAKER_01]: Finally. [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say they let us stick and move a hit and run campaign in the catacombs and that's part of their deal.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they were amazing. [SPEAKER_01]: So they have this really cool story, but eventually obviously the unification wars end and it's time to begin the great crusade. [SPEAKER_01]: And we talked about this a long time ago, but [SPEAKER_01]: What the Emperor unified Tara, the first thing he did was send road trader fleets out throughout the galaxy.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the Emperor gave his people Ritz of power and always independent captains could just go out and mark territory for the Imperial. [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, here's humanity, here's not humanity, here's something really bad, right? [SPEAKER_01]: The issue the Emperor ran into, though, is that the galaxy is full of technology and information that he really didn't want to keep secret.

[SPEAKER_00]: They better stand one secret. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yeah, the also you're like you have to be like [SPEAKER_00]: Should I tell him about this? [SPEAKER_00]: Should I keep the secret? [SPEAKER_00]: Because we haven't got a list of what we're not supposed to know. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the funny thing is they wouldn't have gotten a list.

[SPEAKER_01]: They just would have told the Emperor, hey, we found this really cool planet here full of aliens and cool technology. [SPEAKER_01]: And then the first legion would show us and you stop the existing, so no, not to do that anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: They would just be like, ah, the first legion removed them.

[SPEAKER_01]: How are you supposed to know that's the reason why? [SPEAKER_01]: But as a result, the M4 starts splitting up the fifth legion into tiny factions and sending them out as a road trader part two. [SPEAKER_01]: This is when the Brad's point they became leaders of star hunters. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and they also, I mean, they weren't tiny tiny here like what?

[SPEAKER_00]: 500 to like three to four thousand, but it's still. [SPEAKER_00]: That's tiny for what was happening at the time. [SPEAKER_01]: At this point, they were full fledged legion. [SPEAKER_00]: At this point, they knew nothing. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying the small companies that they're sending them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, because they're broken. [SPEAKER_01]: They were over 100 of them, I think. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, they, they, they're at, they're in. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he, he had them sent out all over the place. [SPEAKER_00]: And I love them because they're, their whole thing was as they kept showing up places.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you were, if you were a warlord at Demagag, you know, choose whatever faction specific name you need for it, their whole job was just to make things suck for you, until the Emperor showed up. [SPEAKER_01]: And, or who are you, the giant fleet ship, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, to wreck you, it basically, you just weakened and annoyed people and they were fantastic at it because, well, I love the original books where they talk about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: They just did everything at full throttle, just zoom, they're like, cool, you're not going to really be able to engage with us because, well, we never take our foot off the gas, I live my life a quarter mile at a time. [SPEAKER_01]: So, what's fun about them, though, is that they do discover a lot of stuff, like they found Zitonia.

[SPEAKER_01]: They found Horace. [SPEAKER_01]: There was actually the white scars who originally discovered Horace's homeworld. [SPEAKER_01]: And there also a bit nastier than most spots they found. [SPEAKER_01]: They did also just kill a ton of people all throughout the galaxy. [SPEAKER_01]: So, [SPEAKER_01]: If there was technology discovered that shouldn't be discovered, they did it.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is a John theory, but my expectations that a lot of STCs were found by the white scars and the people who had the STC. [SPEAKER_00]: Probably to be out of the country because they were, they initially were so much farther out than any other means had Juno because their whole thing was go that way and you're like which way and the Emperor pointed across the entire sky and we go, go, get out of here, go and get it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now over time though, this starts to drag on them a bit because initially they're super into this, you know, we're the star hunters. [SPEAKER_01]: We're going out there. [SPEAKER_01]: We're leading the pack all these things, but as they do this and the great crusade begins other legions start getting a lot of notoriety for how good they are and the first primarks that can discover.

[SPEAKER_01]: And these guys do have, while they're nomadic, they still do have some level of pride, not space wolf level, but some level. [SPEAKER_01]: And they're out there just dying. [SPEAKER_01]: The other thing too is as scouts, you don't like Brad's talking about how they stick and move. [SPEAKER_01]: A promise stick and move is as long as you do get hit.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they're all by themselves. [SPEAKER_00]: What are the biggest things is that they had to effectively take care of themselves on these places where they had wild numerical disadvantage. [SPEAKER_00]: And they were still moving, harassing, harassing, and harassing, and when the fleet showed up of whoever, then they were just told to go to the next thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they never get and not never. [SPEAKER_00]: But like a lot of times, they were just not part of the victor. [SPEAKER_00]: They weren't getting. [SPEAKER_00]: the accolades for the victory, even though they had to deal with all this, because a lot of dude, they had to stick in and he stick and move things where they're just like, hey, you need to harass this until they show up.

[SPEAKER_00]: When are they showing up? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, soon, ish, you know, so the bigger problem is the casualties they were taking in that process, because they were diminishing as a legion as a result of it for no real glory or gain. [SPEAKER_01]: And so, with that, we should go talk about, ugh, jugger'd I can, and just...

[SPEAKER_01]: It's jugger'd I can, it's not an IP viable. [SPEAKER_01]: Dominating progress. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: So, fun story about this. [SPEAKER_01]: All the stuff we know about Jagatai Khan the Bore is oral tradition apparently. [SPEAKER_01]: It's all written down by his later general Agadai, who has noticed a great con of the quanzal.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, this is cool because we just did Dante a few weeks or just last week actually. [SPEAKER_01]: It's very similar to Dante in that the stories about the Khan are either true, not true or something in between. [SPEAKER_01]: you know, because he is a renaissance man. [SPEAKER_01]: He is kind, but firm, he's a brutal tactician, but he's also has compassion.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot about him. [SPEAKER_00]: But this all started not working that out. [SPEAKER_00]: You would say he's brutal but cunning. [SPEAKER_01]: No, because the difference he actually is, that's the difference. [SPEAKER_01]: A brutal but cunning or cunning is more like what if we bring more orcs?

[SPEAKER_01]: That's the orc. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Cutting. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand way more. [SPEAKER_00]: Works. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: GGW and my current point ratios will be right back after a quick break. [SPEAKER_01]: It's all this starts on a backward ass plan.

[SPEAKER_01]: I call Jagorus now. [SPEAKER_01]: Jagorus is segment and pacific us placing it in the left word side of segment and solar. [SPEAKER_01]: And the people call Jagorus the inperium, [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, plus side. [SPEAKER_01]: Chagoris doesn't suck like call-up on ball, chemo, stochromo, all those planets.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a beautiful planet. [SPEAKER_01]: It has grass, it has blue oceans, it has mountains, there's not pollution choking it, there aren't chaos beasts running a muck, there's no necromancer, like raising the dead, all of that's fine. [SPEAKER_00]: And why do you hate horses so much? [SPEAKER_00]: Did I just kick you when you were a baby?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because it doesn't make sense. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, the whole fact of the thing is this plant also is full of horses for no good reason. [SPEAKER_01]: Because that during dark age of technology, things got really bad here. [SPEAKER_01]: And they incentive like them falling to chaos. [SPEAKER_01]: They went like final fantasy 10, where they just got rid of all technology.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so, that's a whole figure, of course. [SPEAKER_01]: There's no technology on Chagors. [SPEAKER_01]: Except for, you know, horses. [SPEAKER_01]: They have lots of horses, and I have a theory on this, because I've been thinking about this for a while. [SPEAKER_01]: There's no reason for horses to be anywhere, okay?

[SPEAKER_01]: You have men of gold, you have men of stone, all built all these ships to travel the galaxy. [SPEAKER_01]: Why would you send horses? [SPEAKER_01]: And I realize what I send horses. [SPEAKER_01]: Food. [SPEAKER_01]: Horses were food. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what this was.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's the only reason that their horses on every on not everybody's so many plants out the Imperium is for whatever reason this was the animal they were cloning for food because otherwise makes no sense but then someone goes we could ride our food can I guess damn I'm assuming that you think black Deity's a horror movie [SPEAKER_00]: with your hatred of horses, that implies that implies I've seen Black Beauty.

[SPEAKER_01]: How dare you, sir? [SPEAKER_01]: How dare you? [SPEAKER_01]: I've not seen Black Beauty. [SPEAKER_01]: No part of that movie poster was like, oh, John, I'll enjoy this. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm firmly believer. [SPEAKER_00]: Get your communist regime out of here. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm sorry. [SPEAKER_01]: It's you to go, no, did I miss anything really important by not seeing Black Beauty?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's a reference. [SPEAKER_01]: There we go. [SPEAKER_01]: There we go. [SPEAKER_01]: Outside of that, no, we're good. [SPEAKER_01]: John's got two hours in his life. [SPEAKER_01]: He was able to use to rewatch. [SPEAKER_01]: And so, let's talk about Chagoras. [SPEAKER_01]: And there is as with all these planets one dark bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the dark bit is the Palantine. [SPEAKER_01]: The Palantine air quotes your rule Chagoras. [SPEAKER_01]: And it says that they rule the part they care about. [SPEAKER_01]: high-floading nobility group that has an army made up of armored cavalry at armored foot soldiers who just, well, back up on this, because Chugriss was like super low-tech on this planet.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Blackpulch actually comes to, yeah, yeah, it comes to hunt him later on because they took the kind of a while. [SPEAKER_00]: to get up to speed with imperium tactics and everything else because of the tech level. [SPEAKER_00]: But just as far as setting the stage for how he talk is this planet, but he just didn't have super tech.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it actually took him longer because of the no ability. [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't just take a shuttle over to the other side of the planet to take care of business. [SPEAKER_00]: He was doing this. [SPEAKER_00]: He was going door to door going, you're under my rule, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be back because I have to [SPEAKER_01]: literally specifically on the horse literally. [SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about Chagoras for a minute here. [SPEAKER_01]: So Chagoras is a you know, it's a planet. [SPEAKER_01]: They are what they GW refers to as black powder technology. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm saying call it 900 to 1180.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's about where they are. [SPEAKER_01]: So everything is there's no electricity. [SPEAKER_01]: There's no railroads. [SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing. [SPEAKER_01]: So it happens as you've got this group called the Palantine who live more on the eastern side. [SPEAKER_01]: And what they have is that they do have a large, what's called an empire, it is cities and towns with the main castle, and so they're able to do all that.

[SPEAKER_01]: to the west you have planes and these are wide open planes on these live nomadic people and these nomadic people just travel the planes and they do is in the summer months they come down they hunt on the planes and the winter months they go north into the mountains because if you know anything about planes yes going north in the winter sounds like a bad idea but if you stay where it's wide open plane and the winter comes in zero protection get you freeze the [SPEAKER_01]: These nomadic people would go to war with each other every so often to compete over the hunting grounds through their local ancestral hunting grounds air quotes there.

[SPEAKER_01]: The funny thing is, as we later, there's more than enough food. [SPEAKER_01]: They were just doing this also just because they're kind of idiots. [SPEAKER_01]: at the same time, though. [SPEAKER_00]: We also did it round-up slaves. [SPEAKER_01]: The Palantine guys were with the Palantine different.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was talking about the known as the Palantine or Diffan. [SPEAKER_01]: The Palantine are we realized later in later writings. [SPEAKER_01]: They were chaos worshipers. [SPEAKER_01]: The Palantine would actually attack into these planes and capture people to take back his slaves and more and probably for sacrifices.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the de-blood rituals. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the Palantine are bad. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not new, Seria. [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm being honest, the Thurmyans are is what the freaking Palantine are compared to what those guys had. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, never give up. [SPEAKER_01]: He never surrender.

[SPEAKER_00]: He never surrender. [SPEAKER_00]: He never surrender. [SPEAKER_00]: He, he, he, he, he, he, he, they're not hanging out with Morty where you have. [SPEAKER_00]: techno necromancers that were just, yeah, not really never these guys. [SPEAKER_01]: These guys were bad, but they were like, oh, it's kind of cute bad, but that's getting a jug of time.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're, see, sure a bad guy, but you're not a bad guy, bad guy, bad guy. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so let's go with Jagatagan. [SPEAKER_01]: So like everyone, Jagatagan fell like a meteor out of the planet. [SPEAKER_01]: Luckily, on my Conradian fall into the planet, but he landed on the planet.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Jagatagan is found and adopted by one of the smaller tribes there called the Tala Scars. [SPEAKER_01]: And they're chief on Kong sees Jagatai as a gift from the gods. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, but good gift by the good. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not that not the core fair on gift. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I will use this thing now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just want to point out something to everybody. [SPEAKER_01]: We talk about the White Scuss on Kong also known as toggle so on Kong's a real person. [SPEAKER_01]: He also invite to a group that was a close friend of Genghis Khan's father is one of the main supporters of Genghis Khan as he's rising up.

[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't even change the name here. [SPEAKER_01]: Chagatai is one of Ganges' sons. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, it's like this is, I remember I was writing this on like, I know these names. [SPEAKER_01]: So I started looking them up. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is, they didn't even put an effort.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is the kind of thing that you plagiarize, assuming the professor isn't going to check your work. [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, Chagatai starts eating Hong Kong at a house in a hole, because he's just growing and growing and growing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: for the funny thing is it's all I kept thinking about this was Will Ferrell and Elf where he's so much bigger than everybody else.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what every primarke is about. [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, probably the best definition of a young primar. [SPEAKER_01]: Go watch Elf and figure out what these people were like sanguinius is the worst one. [SPEAKER_01]: The whole planet's dying of starvation and that dude's eating all of the food and I assume all this right they don't put it but the bus is destroying the bathrooms but you don't poop.

[SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise he's just every plumber is worse nightmare. [SPEAKER_01]: They are pipes were built for this, but anyway. [SPEAKER_01]: Jagatai is trained by the adoptive father in the proper ways of being a warrior, how to hunt, how to kill, but Jagatai keeps asking questions of, why are we killing everybody?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because he's looking around the steps going like, there's enough food here, we all could just, you know, work together and maybe not kill each other over stupid shit. [SPEAKER_01]: And everyone kind of looked at him like shut up. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of badness. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he got a lot of shot up nerd a lot of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but but also the fact everyone is pretty jelly of the guy that's head and shoulders taller, larger, better, more skilled in everything and goes, I don't really know why we're doing this. [SPEAKER_00]: And kind of and also, I don't know why we're competing. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm wildly better in you.

[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't even remotely. [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny because all the other warriors who just dream of being the best warrior are looking at not just the best War. [SPEAKER_01]: We're not even like comparing at this point, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And like I was like seriously, but why are you guys even trying to like kill each other?

[SPEAKER_01]: This is stupid. [SPEAKER_01]: So that being said, Jagdai does decide to show off. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll not decide. [SPEAKER_01]: He ends up showing off because one day another tried the Coriad attack Jagdai's camp, but obviously he wasn't around or else is what no work by the way bad decision.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah [SPEAKER_01]: So they kill, and it's actually depends on which book you read. [SPEAKER_01]: They always kill his father, but they either kill his father in a few of the other telescopes, or they kill his father in his entire adopted family. [SPEAKER_00]: And his whole family, yes, the earlier book, I remember that one.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're whole family. [SPEAKER_01]: The more recent novels, and I had to go back and read the third edition code. [SPEAKER_00]: check it out takes offense to that puts on his boots in mind he has kicking in goes hey I'm gonna ride that way until I go across the globe conquering every single person ever now he would pretty zero to hear out about this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and no, because what he does is he first thing he does is he goes and kills all the current yes, and no, but yeah, he kills all the Chris, but he said it's not like he just doesn't stop and She'll nobody does stop. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a different motivation or the current.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's really cool. [SPEAKER_01]: So because he goes and he kills the current and they describe him as bathing in the blood of the people. [SPEAKER_01]: He kills every man woman and shired. [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, he pulls a Vulcan just kills a bunch of children and [SPEAKER_01]: But what he doesn't do, but after killing them all, he has this epiphany.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the epiphany he has, he doesn't stop. [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't stop. [SPEAKER_01]: He kills everybody. [SPEAKER_01]: And then he has this epiphany that this that the mindless killing is stupid. [SPEAKER_01]: And his epiphany is, he's going, he woulda [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you said like he went and he didn't stop.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he, no, he didn't. [SPEAKER_01]: That's, he killed a lot of people. [SPEAKER_01]: And then was like, hey, this is the wrong thing to do. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and then it was a cup of tea. [SPEAKER_01]: And then continued to conquer the world. [SPEAKER_00]: There was no way. [SPEAKER_00]: But he was.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, but he went from, [SPEAKER_01]: swartering every manwoman in shile and bathing in their blood to like unifying their people. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a little bit different following the two. [SPEAKER_00]: But how did he unify everybody by killing any manwoman in China? [SPEAKER_00]: Let's still get some choices.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, so the Jonathan pause was he he watched an episode of Seinfeld and had a scone and then continued on to conquer the planet by wreck facing everybody. [SPEAKER_01]: In the books where he does is there are some work it gets a little bit ugly, but for the most part they raise them up to be con and he just travels around to all of the other clans and gives them basically look why don't you guys join us into a [SPEAKER_01]: bigger thing, but what's important about the way he does it though is that he doesn't conquer because that's the most important thing here.

[SPEAKER_01]: When he goes and approaches his other plans, it is under threat of death, don't get me wrong. [SPEAKER_01]: But it is also a, if you join me, you are not my servant, if you join me, you are equal. [SPEAKER_01]: So the other people, other leaders in his own clan, [SPEAKER_01]: made them came from the other clans because he absorbed them, he didn't conquer them.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a really key thing about this and jeopardize legacy because what he wanted to do was create a plurality of all the best rise up. [SPEAKER_01]: And those are the leaders of my people. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't care about your background, I don't care your history. [SPEAKER_01]: And he actually does this pretty well later.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll cover the next cast out when he meets the space marines. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's a really key thing. [SPEAKER_01]: However, there is another moment here where the winter has come and he's taking his giant tribe north to go hang out in the mountains so they don't freeze the death. [SPEAKER_01]: And an avalanche hits in Jagatai gets knocked a few thousand feet off a cliff.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say it specifically out that the he falls a thousand feet before a thousand rocks. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And so two things, one, he does not die. [SPEAKER_01]: That's important. [SPEAKER_01]: And number two, remember the Valentine for a few minutes ago we were talking about, well, one of the things they like to do was when the people from the steps would go north, that's when they would attack, because they knew where they'd be.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where they would like, they'd hug them for sport basically. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is a trap swarm like they were hunting wild animals. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: And take them back to their place. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And this year, Palantine that the head of Kalantine's only son was the one leading the expedition.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he found an injured with described as an injured warrior. [SPEAKER_01]: And the next thing we get out of him is that a single writer from the son's group comes back to the main city with this Pelantine's son severed head tied around his neck and a condolent. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't forget to note.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's actually pretty badass Yeah, the people his steps are yours no longer exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just pretty boss about it [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the Valentine decided that this wasn't cool and they hit out. [SPEAKER_01]: They take she takes his entire force and moves out to go and destroy the people of the steps.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, this is the part that where things get very gangas-khani, and so if you don't know what the dogma, yeah, the party and shot whatever it is, but effectively, the problem for the Palantines is that they march out into this giant steps, and they discover that their super armored infantry [SPEAKER_01]: are up against jogatized men on horseback with bows and arrows.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would have pointed out this is the battle of Calca River. [SPEAKER_01]: Dead straight, full rip battle of Calca River. [SPEAKER_01]: You can look it up. [SPEAKER_01]: Read that. [SPEAKER_01]: Read this and go. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I have enough. [SPEAKER_00]: They would fire their arrows that shot farther than their opponent's arrows, and as soon as they moved up, they would take off.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's actually core. [SPEAKER_01]: This one was, they would write up, they would shoot arrows at them, and then when they would respond, they would scatter, like they were afraid. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the difference is that they basically got saying, but they didn't take it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, in Calca, what they would do is actually in the sort of Calca that she dropped gold too.

[SPEAKER_01]: They'll think gangas is army did, but they would ride an attack at them firing arrows. [SPEAKER_01]: And then when they got close, the enemy would form up tight, and the horses would scatter and run away. [SPEAKER_01]: cause in the Palantine, I do laugh. [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't have to read them.

[SPEAKER_01]: They could've done this thing about the gang's con story. [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, then the Palantine would charge after them. [SPEAKER_01]: And the force of gangs would stay just close up to keep them running until they got exhausted. [SPEAKER_01]: At that point, that's when your party and shot, your Taluk, my start.

[SPEAKER_01]: brutalize them and they start just cutting them down. [SPEAKER_01]: And as the Palantine forces are just overextended enough, the next they would turn four of them charge again. [SPEAKER_01]: All this leads to the Palantines have to run away. [SPEAKER_01]: May I look, they put all this effort to the book writing all this stuff and I really was like, just you guys could set a footnote, just see Genghis Khan and move on your date.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's a fun read. [SPEAKER_01]: So. [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, also helps with your playing in your 40K everyone. [SPEAKER_00]: Don't overextend your armies. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because you'll be picked off. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but over commit, I do it a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, it's like my go to move, yeah, it's like my go.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's basically my go to move. [SPEAKER_01]: But what happens? [SPEAKER_01]: as joggotype then begins this multi-year campaign taking the forces of the Palantine. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is where I think we're about some earlier, this is where it gets a little bit ugly. [SPEAKER_01]: This is where we're seeing an omages to nishpore, otar, like Natsia.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it is brutal what they do here where it's like surrender or hand over your leaders or we are going to build a mound of skulls if you do not. [SPEAKER_01]: and they do this campaign until they reach the outskirts of the main palace, which is cofasta. [SPEAKER_01]: And Jagatai pulls a lorgar.

[SPEAKER_01]: He walks outside and slits, it's a voice lorgar was preaching. [SPEAKER_01]: He comes in and goes, y'all know what I've been doing. [SPEAKER_01]: It's your call. [SPEAKER_01]: If you give me the later's head literally on a pike, then we can be cool. [SPEAKER_01]: But if you don't, and he doesn't really get to dope before the doors open, and someone comes running out, pulling said leaders head on stick.

[SPEAKER_01]: But here it is. [SPEAKER_01]: Can we please all, please don't make a mound out of our skulls, please don't make a mound out of our skulls. [SPEAKER_01]: And Teda, he is now conquered Chigoris. [SPEAKER_00]: But to it side note did as is with a lot of the ways the Emperor showed up to the Emperor time his arrival to wait for him to conquer because I feel like he did.

[SPEAKER_01]: The Emperor showed up like it was a while later. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's after he will he completely change. [SPEAKER_00]: Check it a con. [SPEAKER_00]: Change is the entire way the civilization works. [SPEAKER_00]: He basically puts it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: He puts full economy.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a meritocracy. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, he puts everything on. [SPEAKER_00]: He almost he basically [SPEAKER_00]: you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: And then the emperor arrives. [SPEAKER_00]: But as soon as he solidified this, I feel like he finished covering different changes society.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And then the emperor's like, all right, it looks like you're pretty much done here. [SPEAKER_00]: Cool. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get out of here. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: It's what's cool is what he does for this plan. [SPEAKER_01]: Because this planet was so you had the Palantine force in the monarchy.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's what it was. [SPEAKER_01]: You had a very powerful monarchy kind of in the east. [SPEAKER_01]: And then the steps you had [SPEAKER_01]: and what Ganga Sutras, what Jagatai does, sorry, Freudian, slip by and that Freudian, what Jagatai does is he unifies both of them and institutes a new system.

[SPEAKER_01]: At Warlords are gone. [SPEAKER_01]: Tribe hunting is kind of pseudo there, but not interpersonal killing, and just building a civilization where people are in charge, it's based on their target and there's a sharing of resources. [SPEAKER_01]: Because again, Chagoris is not a beat up planet.

[SPEAKER_01]: The other planets that we were dealing with, especially throughout the Imperium and the primarx are horrid places where, like, more terrarian, they'd play a fairly important people that are there. [SPEAKER_01]: No straw on my phone, I can't agree to. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a bit of a weirder one.

[SPEAKER_01]: This planet was a paradise world. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not that far off from the crack. [SPEAKER_01]: except McCreck had technology. [SPEAKER_01]: So there's no reason why we can't all survive here. [SPEAKER_01]: So he does that. [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone's going great. [SPEAKER_01]: And then this giant ship shows up a stupid glowing guy in it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the everable and glowing guy. [SPEAKER_01]: they both wait exactly how they wrote in the books everyone that dead on stupid glowing guy dead on yeah very paraphrase it at all just right there now they do write that when jogger time at the emperor the feeling kneel knelt and knew that this man was his destiny well not corrects corrects old the record for the only one going like [SPEAKER_01]: What's up with this dude?

[SPEAKER_01]: Why did everyone care? [SPEAKER_01]: And he's still why he's my favorite met the primarck. [SPEAKER_01]: I've been met the other time. [SPEAKER_00]: Just give Jaganize some credit on this, because he notices kind of right away that, you know, his horse and bow are slightly lower on the tech tree if you're playing some siv than what the effort you showed up with that just landed.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he's like, hey, man. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, this is before Correx, though. [SPEAKER_01]: Jogatite is the first one to properly negotiate with the Emperor, which was we covered in a Ravenguard episode. [SPEAKER_01]: Apparently, he's had to ask, because no one else does, and Emperor goes to all these planets, and they're like complete nightmare zones, and the Emperor just leaves, and they're like, oh, but turns out, if you just say, hey, I'll come with you, but only if you do to following things from my planet, the Emperor every time goes, yeah, I know, what you need.

[SPEAKER_01]: And jugatized was a really easy one. [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, can you leave them alone, please? [SPEAKER_01]: Because he, jugat looks around the emperor and goes, oh, they are going to jack up my house. [SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be bad. [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to put all this stuff there.

[SPEAKER_01]: And my plan is going to be really less pretty, pretty soon. [SPEAKER_01]: And the people are going to suffer. [SPEAKER_01]: So he says, I will join you and your adorable crusade. [SPEAKER_01]: But only if you leave my planet completely alone. [SPEAKER_00]: I love everything that happens after this because they want to use their eventually going to use this planet as the recruitment planet and as all planets, the home worlds, they have to have a fortress monastery where they train and get people and stuff, but it's considered us secret monastery.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is gigantic to be fair on the reach of all my horses. [SPEAKER_01]: And we're like, all right, let's put it over here and no one can get it. [SPEAKER_00]: I just love it though, because it's like it's a secret monastery. [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, it is the largest single building on the blue buildings on the planet.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's how let's call it. [SPEAKER_01]: They routinely murder Chagorans who decide to go over the mountains for in the chaos. [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, look at this. [SPEAKER_00]: And they get those in the mountain and there's a space and ring going and just says nope and bank. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the game But I do think it's pretty cool because it's like Fenris is similar to this, but they difference the Fenrisians know about the Oh, I what's the the thing they know if I sort of they'll know I don't really know it's cool But they know they're aware of its presence.

[SPEAKER_00]: Who aware of it? [SPEAKER_01]: It's just really hard to get to yeah, but they different these guys don't even know it's done this here [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, yeah, this one's like, West, they probably, yeah, by the way, I'm actually, I'm 100% sure most of Chagoras knows about it. [SPEAKER_00]: They just all pretend they don't.

[SPEAKER_00]: They do that robot chicken skate where they're like, we all pretend that Lord Vader can choke us out. [SPEAKER_00]: So he doesn't kill us with his life. [SPEAKER_00]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_00]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_00]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_00]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_00]: This is my bed.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my bed. [SPEAKER_01]: This is [SPEAKER_01]: The best way to discover the Fiddles. [SPEAKER_01]: They are hundreds of pioneer groups spread all across the stars, originally all Terran Barbon.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now we're going to show the Chagorans in there too. [SPEAKER_01]: And Jaguadize got some work to do, because you would just everyone else took over a functioning legion. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, not everybody. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, angron situation was a little bit rough, but for the most part, they took over functioning legions.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Check that as a restructure. [SPEAKER_01]: The whole thing. [SPEAKER_00]: It's also, he effectively has to take over their not chaos war bands, but they operate the same way the chaos war bands do. [SPEAKER_00]: This is a bunch of autonomous units that are just wandering around the galaxy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I will say I do like white scars lore early white scars lore. [SPEAKER_01]: This part is cool. [SPEAKER_01]: So he sits there and takes him 10 years to pull this off, but he puts a call out for every single fifth legion air to report to Chagors. [SPEAKER_01]: And 50,000 Legionnaires assemble on the planet and jot a tie addresses them and because this thing you are all now one Legion.

[SPEAKER_01]: We all stand together. [SPEAKER_01]: You are not separate war bands anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: We are one Legion and we're going to go out to Galaxy as one Legion and we're going to make our mark on the Galaxy as one Legion. [SPEAKER_01]: Fun story, there's also why they're called the white scars, because the tell us scars, gender ties are original clan, had a tradition where they would cut their face with a knife called the blooding.

[SPEAKER_01]: So 50,000 legionaires cut their face together as a mark of being in the same legion. [SPEAKER_01]: Could have just painted your armor, but you know, each their own. [SPEAKER_01]: It's more badass to put a scar on it. [SPEAKER_01]: They also rename themself. [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone gets a name in Chagorin.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like Ted, [SPEAKER_00]: Ted's been Ted for a hundred years now, and now he's bored and you're like, what? [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Ted. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to be a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: The honesty, when I read this, first I popped my head was, A-A-R-On. [SPEAKER_00]: D-Nice! [SPEAKER_00]: Where is D-Nice?

[SPEAKER_00]: What? [SPEAKER_00]: There's no chocolate here? [SPEAKER_01]: Not you're quiet. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't get that reference. [SPEAKER_01]: Stop what you're doing and go watch the AA runs sketch by key and peel. [SPEAKER_01]: It's morning. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good teacher. [SPEAKER_01]: It's in more airing than the 18 Brad and I will ever do in our entire lives.

[SPEAKER_01]: Trust me, it is not that. [SPEAKER_01]: That thing is absolute gold. [SPEAKER_01]: Go check it out. [SPEAKER_01]: But that's all I can think with. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the chagore and pronunciation of Aaron. [SPEAKER_01]: But one of the best ones though about this is Jagatai also does a weird thing to his legion.

[SPEAKER_01]: He starts introducing other traditions. [SPEAKER_01]: poetry, philosophy, art. [SPEAKER_01]: This whole, cool thing is that Jacket actually bonds really well with Horace and Magnus later, and Gilman and Lorgark hate this guy. [SPEAKER_01]: For opposite reasons, Gilman, because he's like this guy wastes time with stupid stuff, and Lorgark mostly goes to Jacket.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's not doing worship things. [SPEAKER_01]: He thinks Lorgark calls Jacket a barbarian, [SPEAKER_00]: He actually yells at him for giving people joy because you shouldn't find joy in yourself. [SPEAKER_00]: You should find joy from worshiping. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: They do not get long.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's it. [SPEAKER_01]: That's it. [SPEAKER_01]: By the way. [SPEAKER_01]: But Jack and I's Legion becomes very independent. [SPEAKER_01]: As a result, he actually really promotes independent thought and variation, which is also my full-groom does hate about him too, but that's one kind of more than no time.

[SPEAKER_01]: the issue with that there was jagatized on knowingly setting his legion up for a problem because he's allowing for people to have independent thought for lack of better phrase inside of his own legion and this is a legion that has always been highly independent and highly separate and we've also got a lot of lodges in it by the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: They end up with a lot of lodges, but that's the problem. [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of lodges. [SPEAKER_01]: It opens the door to the lodges because they were always a separate region. [SPEAKER_01]: They always had disparate thought because it was a legion made up of a hundred many legions. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, he's coming.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's also adding the chagorians in. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of churn within this legion and a lot of variation. [SPEAKER_01]: And the problem is that opens the door for descent, which is what we start to see. [SPEAKER_01]: next. [SPEAKER_01]: And so obviously we're going to stop there, as you guys can tell from my tone and our discussion, because next week we're going to get into the white scars and they're experienced during the Great Crusade with even some of the the cool bits of jugatite not gain along with wealth and buckler or the emperor.

[SPEAKER_01]: And some of their achievements in the lead up to the heresy, and of course the opening of the heresy itself with them. [SPEAKER_01]: It's their really active for this period of time. [SPEAKER_01]: And they are a unique feature. [SPEAKER_01]: I do like in the way Magnus or no. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's Magnus describes that as being the knife edge of the traders.

[SPEAKER_01]: Are they trader or are they going to go loyalist? [SPEAKER_01]: No one knew. [SPEAKER_01]: There were the only ones. [SPEAKER_01]: No one knew. [SPEAKER_01]: Spoiler alert. [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone knew where Angron was going. [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone of them. [SPEAKER_01]: This is very clear like very clear and conred.

[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, actually, I will point out and Jagger actually docks crap on both of them. [SPEAKER_01]: One of the books didn't like really those of your allies. [SPEAKER_01]: Good job. [SPEAKER_01]: Nice, nice, nice neighbor who you got here idiots. [SPEAKER_01]: But until then John Barisati Bradchester, disguide.

[SPEAKER_01]: See you guys next week. [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.

Episode 160 – The White Scars – The creation of the 5th Legion, their transformation to the Star Hunters, and the evolution of Jaghati Khan.

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