Episode 162 – The White Scars pt 3 – The truth about the Webway project, Jaghati disappears, and a legion fracturing under itself.

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Forty K-Lorecast. [SPEAKER_01]: Look in the 4K lorecast with me, John Barsati and Brett Chester. [SPEAKER_01]: This guy. [SPEAKER_01]: Today, we are closing out our coverage of the White Skars, with the White Skars. [SPEAKER_01]: The bit of what we were scared, we were scared to do the Skars.

0:33 [SPEAKER_01]: The world is. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: We were going to cover the White Skars really on their journey back to Tara to defend Horace and we're going to jump to the scouring and cover them from the scouring to their actions up through modern 40K. [SPEAKER_01]: As always, the 40K lorecast weekly show in the lore of the Warhammer 40K universe releasing every Monday at 7 p.m. Eastern, like and subscribe, there we go.

0:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I said it. [SPEAKER_01]: You can also click the links to our YouTube channel for our older cast that have now been converted up in the now on YouTube. [SPEAKER_01]: You can find Brad's channel, which is a fun little place to hear Brad talk about competitive 40K. [SPEAKER_01]: You can find my show, Retro Recall, like I look old video games, [SPEAKER_01]: But also, you can help us out by either buying merchandise from us, yay, clothing, wine glasses, and stickers, or join our Patreon.

1:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Our Patreon is like $4.99 a month and for that, you get this show and the history of $40K at free, or $7.12 Canadian dollars. [SPEAKER_01]: Because I found a new punk band called All the Waste of Years. [SPEAKER_01]: So now, we're going to talk about Timons Ontario, which is where they're from.

1:40 [SPEAKER_01]: It is also where Schnee, well, it doesn't take much motivation to be looking up. [SPEAKER_01]: All the ways that years are good, the newer to me, they've been around for six, seven years, but they're quite good. [SPEAKER_01]: And so here we are, fun thing is, I texted my buddy, who's from Canada.

1:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, hey, what's up with Timons on Terry? [SPEAKER_01]: It's a cute name, he was, that's where Schnee at Twain's from. [SPEAKER_01]: So now I went down this rabbit hole. [SPEAKER_01]: So apparently, it's a mining town where Schnee at Twain's from, and it was born [SPEAKER_01]: And this town has produced tens of millions of dollars of gold, so Austin Powers mean whatever.

2:15 [SPEAKER_01]: That is really what they do. [SPEAKER_01]: People there go down like Hobbit style, deep dark holes, and they get a lot of gold. [SPEAKER_01]: They can deepen to the mountain. [SPEAKER_01]: They be too deep. [SPEAKER_01]: But the good news is, it, when your average winter temperature can be below 40 degrees Fahrenheit, you might as well be a deep dark hole, then be outside, you know, call it spade a spade.

2:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, in fun story, the miners were so good at stealing gold. [SPEAKER_01]: And like the munchboxes, their boots, et cetera, that the town, the surrounding area, dealt a really strong black market that actually helped maintain the local economy. [SPEAKER_01]: So there you go. [SPEAKER_01]: But that's not all.

2:49 [SPEAKER_01]: The town is named after someone named Noah Timons, who lived in Montreal that always business in Montreal. [SPEAKER_01]: So there's that. [SPEAKER_01]: The prospector who found the mine is listed as a man named Sandy McIntyre, but that wasn't his real name. [SPEAKER_01]: His real name was Alexander Olifant, and he changed his name to escape quotes here an unhappy marriage.

3:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Given that later in life, he spent all of his time drinking and lost all of his money. [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of want to hear both sides of that story, although pretty sure both sides are going to involve the word unhappy. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and remember the whole Shania Twain thing? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, a bunch of people thought it'd be a really good idea to make a museum the Shania Twain.

3:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And some of you are probably thinking, doesn't sound good at all, John, I don't wanna go there. [SPEAKER_01]: You're correct, no one did, so it closed. [SPEAKER_01]: And after it closed though, the people who bought it put a gold mine on it. [SPEAKER_01]: So it literally, the closing of the Shania Twain Museum was a gold mine for local business.

3:45 [SPEAKER_01]: If you like those kind of witty retorts and wanna tell me more about how I guess stuff wrong, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just, well, that was the worst sales pitch ever. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, uh, during a discord, I do love how to be barred discord. [SPEAKER_01]: Great place to ask you, Brad, and I questions.

3:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll give a question. [SPEAKER_01]: So you can interact in general over the warhammer 40 get universe who've got a nice team of moderators who help keep it not read it or more importantly, not decked decker. [SPEAKER_01]: And as a result, it's a really great place. [SPEAKER_01]: Especially newer players to learn as much as they can about the warhammer universe because it is complicated.

4:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Bye. [SPEAKER_01]: with that, let's get into this. [SPEAKER_01]: So let's start off with where we are. [SPEAKER_01]: Most of us are pulling out of the novel called The Path of Heaven. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's got a, let's say, actually nice cover art too. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's a cool story.

4:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really care as much about candidly the white scars on it. [SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna talk about that. [SPEAKER_01]: But there's some really great reveals in the book, which is way cool. [SPEAKER_01]: It feels like. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the reveals are psychotically amazing. [SPEAKER_01]: The story of the White Scarves is kind of, I'm being honest, it's kind of lame, but the stuff you learn along the way is why you read it.

4:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So, let's talk about this. [SPEAKER_01]: Events of Prospero, Jagatai has decided that he's very loyal. [SPEAKER_01]: He's not falling to chaos, and he's gonna take his whole legion back to terror that offended. [SPEAKER_01]: But he's stuck. [SPEAKER_01]: Horace and the Dark Gods don't really want anyone other than Horace getting back to terror.

5:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So they put up a giant warpstone. [SPEAKER_01]: Luckily, the con has Arvita with them. [SPEAKER_01]: And so Arvita is that super powered thousands on the sorcerer, who again later comes a chapter master of the great night. [SPEAKER_01]: So really powerful. [SPEAKER_01]: and but the flip side is Horace has his traders.

5:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So, wait a second. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So, Jagatai is trying to basically figure out what to do next. [SPEAKER_01]: He did have, oh, I should also mention at the end of last cast we covered this, but if you didn't listen to it, [SPEAKER_01]: Jagatai had an issue at the on-prosper about not half, but a good, like, few hundred, maybe a thousand members of his legion turned traitor.

5:49 [SPEAKER_01]: They'd been part of the warrior lodges. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, some of them Jagatai killed, but a bunch of the other ones actually surrendered when Jagatai showed up, because these guys didn't turn traitor for the dark gods. [SPEAKER_01]: They did so, because they actually thought, [SPEAKER_01]: turning trader made them a better white scar.

6:08 [SPEAKER_01]: They thought the Emperor's a dictator were the white scars we killed dictators. [SPEAKER_01]: Ta-da. [SPEAKER_01]: And then Jagatai felt differently. [SPEAKER_01]: So when he got back a lot of them surrendered. [SPEAKER_01]: And the ones who surrendered, [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, was he surrender?

6:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's an honorable surrender, not this like, oh, the primarks here. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to die. [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't just surrender. [SPEAKER_00]: They knew that there was going to be consequences to surrender. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because they already have a method for this that was developed on their homeworld of this.

6:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So they have they know what is coming up. [SPEAKER_00]: when they do that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and they volunteered for it because it is important that if you guys want to really good reference to what space marines are you go watch galaxy quest because space marines never get up and they never surrender.

6:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, all right, the Brad's point, though, back on Chagorus, there's something called the Saigon Mazon. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is effectively penitent squads. [SPEAKER_01]: So when a soldier, the idea here is, if you do something to betray the honor of the tribe or religious to betray the tribe, we'll give you a chance at an honorable death.

7:15 [SPEAKER_01]: You'll never get a chance to actually redeem yourself, but you get the ability to go on a suicide mission to a tone for your crimes. [SPEAKER_01]: There's the thing is this has been adopted very heavily by the Imperium later. [SPEAKER_01]: The sister of the battle basically live by this.

7:30 [SPEAKER_01]: You do have crusades of penitence that's baseman chapters are sent on. [SPEAKER_01]: This actually translates very well into modern 40k. [SPEAKER_01]: But the con just so you know, has a bunch of these, including the captain named Torcon. [SPEAKER_01]: But back then. [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, obviously, I'm foreshadowed, but it'll get there later.

7:49 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, Jagatai can't get back to Tara, but he decides to be a huge pain in the ass because in effectively, I'm still really good at raiding ships. [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't I just go raid all of Horace's supply fleets? [SPEAKER_01]: And for four years, he does this, using just lightning speed to blow up freighter fleets.

8:09 [SPEAKER_01]: There's even a cool scene in one of the books where there's a freighter ship and all of a sudden [SPEAKER_01]: And all that appears, but in the cross, all the screens is both breakers. [SPEAKER_01]: You are judged, we are the punishment, and then the white scars appear and start doing boarding actions.

8:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So, kind of badass. [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, the first couple years, this is going well, but the horses are led by Horace and other primarcs. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason that he was a warmaster. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason that they're primarcs. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they decide, yeah, we're not super cool with this.

8:45 [SPEAKER_00]: This is annoying at first, but we had other shit going on. [SPEAKER_00]: And now we're pretty done with this. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, as the president said, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's not nice to fool people. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean. [SPEAKER_01]: No, forget about it.

9:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Tell me you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a hilarious flop, but Brad's point, they catch on and make adjustments. [SPEAKER_01]: And at the starting point of this book, we find out of the 19 raids, the white scars have gone on, 13 were repelled. [SPEAKER_01]: And then white scars are taking brutal casualties.

9:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Even their shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shiit shi [SPEAKER_01]: To add to this item on of the Emperor's children, it has been cast with killing them, and then the deathguard decided to join in on this.

9:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So there is a hunt on for the white scars. [SPEAKER_01]: Jagatai realizes he has to get home. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, the cool part that we're going to cover at one of this cast is some of the amazing reveals in this book about navigators. [SPEAKER_01]: This is a major portion of this book is on the navigators, how they function, what they see, et cetera.

9:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And we discover that one of the navigator groups were trying to map the warp, like Lewis and Clark style, not the shitty Superman rom-com, Lewis and Clark, the original, what's the life? [SPEAKER_00]: I was just about to say, yeah, [SPEAKER_00]: I do exactly what you're saying, but you did spell it.

10:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I did what Lewis and Clark did not. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you did. [SPEAKER_01]: That's how this thing goes. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, is he really going to make the worst of the superband's reference? [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there actually is a very funny, curb the enthusiasm.

10:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Larry David has a bit on American history. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a very funny little sketch on the Lewis and Clark. [SPEAKER_01]: It's his, it's his, it's him and Jerry Seinfeld. [SPEAKER_01]: That's quite funny. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: But the point we learn is that the warp, they compare the warp like an ocean.

10:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Now it's different. [SPEAKER_01]: We used to talk about the warp being an ocean during the old one time. [SPEAKER_01]: Like a serene, clean ocean. [SPEAKER_01]: But they mean this is marked mapping the ocean, which there are shallows, and there are deaths as all this bits to it. [SPEAKER_01]: And what we learn is that the the reason work travel so complicated.

11:01 [SPEAKER_01]: is when you go into the warp, you can only travel in the shallows, because if you go into the depths, they call it the strathum obscures or the root of terror. [SPEAKER_01]: Basically, the depths are where the chaos gods are, and the idea is that you can navigate air quotes into that, but you just immediately die.

11:19 [SPEAKER_01]: No gather field can hold up to this. [SPEAKER_01]: So these navigers have been mapping out the warp to see if they can find faster routes through the warp because once they get there, they can't use those shortcuts, all of that horizon. [SPEAKER_01]: They also point at those in another part of the warp, the arteries that run through the warp.

11:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is the web way. [SPEAKER_01]: This is what we really see is how the web way functions. [SPEAKER_01]: So the web way, we've always heard you're how the web way actually works, is the web way in the warp is not in the warp. [SPEAKER_01]: And what it looks like is it actually [SPEAKER_01]: where it's technically in it, but it's also not.

11:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so Jada Thai stumbles upon this and discovers that there had been a secret meeting of the navigators had a place called the Katayla's Rift, and he also discovers, in this novel, that the Emperor always hated the lie he told his humanity. [SPEAKER_01]: The Emperor and Nalkador, as we talked last time, Billy did this like the documentary was dumb.

12:17 [SPEAKER_01]: And that they knew that if they told him he made a chaos, they just totally fumble it and everyone But start worshiping chaos kind of happened So the idea the emperor had was to not tell people about chaos, but it wasn't delaying tactic Because he had to make a plan and we all know that it was the web right his plan was to basically remove Humanities access to the warp no more warp travel [SPEAKER_01]: but it also means no more navigators.

12:45 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about that in a second. [SPEAKER_01]: So they arrive. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about that a little bit on this. [SPEAKER_00]: Because if you say no more navigators, it means no more navigators. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll get to more of this in a second.

12:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Because the first thing they do is they arrive in this Catalist Rift. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's weird. [SPEAKER_01]: They come out of the, they come out of the warp. [SPEAKER_01]: And they noticed that the sky, like it's with the space where we would call it, is blue, not black. [SPEAKER_01]: And the navigators also, I don't understand what's the difference?

13:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I got 10, I [SPEAKER_00]: So there was no, so there's no difference whatsoever.

13:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Got it. [SPEAKER_00]: Got it. [SPEAKER_01]: A bribe had been like, I don't see why he was a freaking out. [SPEAKER_01]: So the navigator has started bleeding from their ears. [SPEAKER_01]: They all start dying because that the center is his giant mass of energy. [SPEAKER_01]: And jugger'd I go's that way.

13:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we get a whole scene of blah, blah, blah. [SPEAKER_01]: Captain, I can't hold it together. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm giving it all up to us. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't care about the rules. [SPEAKER_01]: Scotty, give me everything you've got. [SPEAKER_01]: When they do their IP violations, I give them credit, at least they do them from things that we all can reference.

13:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is Star Trek. [SPEAKER_01]: So, they of course eventually, at the last moment, pierce the energy shield and bounce into this serene section in the center of it, in which there's a giant void station surrounding a spike of crystals that as tip goes into the warp. [SPEAKER_01]: This looks ominous.

14:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is the dark glass quick notes. [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to spoil the hell out of this book. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just about to say we we're going to do some extra spoil it because this is 90% of what the books are If you guys want to read this for yourselves jump ahead about 10 minutes.

14:31 [SPEAKER_01]: You'll see we'll be done over this, but if you don't want to read the book I'm going to save you some time right now. [SPEAKER_01]: So [SPEAKER_01]: We'd always, the book's cool because we've always blamed Magnus for destroying the web web project. [SPEAKER_01]: It turns out it wasn't just him.

14:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So on the, this station is a key part of the project effectively, this was part two. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's almost a testing zone. [SPEAKER_01]: Could we get from Earth to the station? [SPEAKER_01]: That's why it's a total secret. [SPEAKER_01]: Juggerty and the crew get into the station, what they see is, it's totally abandoned, but there's a lot of sign of fighting.

15:04 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no bodies, but there's blood, there's shell casings, it's ugly. [SPEAKER_01]: And it turns out, as we discover, this was the super secret project of the Emperor, because the Emperor knew that the navigator wouldn't be cool about this whole thing he was trying to do. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not it stated, but it's implied that the Emperor's plan was to kill all of the navigators.

15:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and all of the stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: Access the warp. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then they wouldn't corrupt people. [SPEAKER_00]: Couldn't be corrupted by chaos. [SPEAKER_00]: And he would just start snuffing people. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which is his go-to. [SPEAKER_01]: And that once the weather project was complete, [SPEAKER_01]: let's get rid of all of them.

15:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And the issue is if you those who don't know navigator houses are incredibly powerful. [SPEAKER_01]: They are in modern 40K even more, but they were back then just as much. [SPEAKER_01]: So they were above nobility. [SPEAKER_01]: So they were very wealthy, very powerful, and probably didn't want the Emperor killing them all.

16:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So play Rogue Trader the game. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and screw great interactions with [SPEAKER_01]: So rather than lose that power and their lives and that years attacked the station, and the guy in charge of the station knew what was going to happen that they were going to attack it and destroy it.

16:16 [SPEAKER_01]: So in order to preserve it, he did something kind of messed up. [SPEAKER_01]: He basically put a timer and flip the station into the warp for a period of time with no [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why there's blood switches all over the other way, yeah, which is bad. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, exactly.

16:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's bad if you're in the station. [SPEAKER_01]: It's good because you just just launched a snack into the warp. [SPEAKER_01]: So what happens is it has, that's what they're viewing. [SPEAKER_01]: They're viewing this station post. [SPEAKER_01]: It's come back after the demons killed everybody.

16:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Now we're here. [SPEAKER_01]: Now. [SPEAKER_01]: As all that's happening, the trader fleets of emperor's children and deathguard arrived. [SPEAKER_01]: And so now things get very busy, I'm not going page by page, but effectively one of the stormseers was watching all this have happened and he finds this power seat inside of it.

17:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's not made for a regular person, but it's interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: It's, and this is, they never explain a lot of in the novel, but it's made for a primarq, but we don't know which primarq, because it's limited primarq. [SPEAKER_01]: So this is going to be powered by a primarq, who it's probably not in us.

17:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Who's anyway? [SPEAKER_01]: He jumps in and does the malkador, where he uses his energy to turn it on and it just disintegrates him, but it does, and stir rocks him. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it does open a vein. [SPEAKER_01]: And now, there is a way for Juggeti and them to get back to Terra.

17:39 [SPEAKER_01]: At this exact same moment, Mortarian and his fleet arrive. [SPEAKER_01]: And the Mortarian starts talking, mad shit. [SPEAKER_01]: And Jadatai is a little bit torn here, because Jadatai knows he has to get Tatarah to help out. [SPEAKER_01]: But he also really wants to stab Orterian, really badly killed Mark Terrier.

18:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he turns that when he orders the sword storm to go full wreck face into the deathguard, [SPEAKER_01]: And for two reasons, one, to go kill more tear, but also it buys the rest of his fleet times. [SPEAKER_01]: They can turn around and jump into the warp and not get pursued by more tearing.

18:18 [SPEAKER_01]: The Sword Storm does horrific damage to the deathguard fleet, because it is the Sword Storm is the best ship in all of the White Scarves. [SPEAKER_01]: What happens is, as it comes closer, and more care, and is fleeting, or firing at fire, and until eventually, it's close up to the endurance, which is more care, and ship.

18:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And more care, and it goes enough of this. [SPEAKER_01]: So he teleports a board with his death shroud to go kill Jagatai. [SPEAKER_01]: And this whole scene is awesome, so I'm spoiling it, but deal with it. [SPEAKER_01]: He arrives in the bridge, and it's dead empty. [SPEAKER_01]: There's no one there.

18:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Jagatai's not there. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's looking around like what the hell, and as he's looking around, the shields for the ship turn on, which means marketing and can't teleport out. [SPEAKER_01]: All of the reactors basically go to overload. [SPEAKER_01]: So the ship's on a self-destruct, and then 132 power swords and storm shields activate, above him, and now come down, those second, the SIGAR Mazda we were talking about earlier.

19:16 [SPEAKER_01]: all of these guys, this is their chance. [SPEAKER_01]: This is my redemption. [SPEAKER_01]: I am going to hold Mortarian here because they can't kill him. [SPEAKER_01]: He is a primarke, but I'm going to trap him here and we're going to kill him this way. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a cool scene where as Mortarian kills one of them he pulls his head off and the guy just smiling ear to ear because nothing gave him more joy than to be able to give his life for Jagatai Khan, whose Jagatai Khan had fled into the [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be honest, I'm super disappointed that they didn't kill Mortarian here.

19:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I love Mortarian. [SPEAKER_01]: I love playing the deathguard, but this would have been a really cool way to have killed one of the, the, you know, treasure. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm archiving. [SPEAKER_00]: It's even cool, though, because it does show the power of a primer. [SPEAKER_00]: His Morty starts.

20:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Morty just goes and he's not just even prints the Morty yet either by the way. [SPEAKER_01]: This is just regular Morty. [SPEAKER_01]: He's got a little bit of chaos happening. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he is not cool with this. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it is, it's one of the things where I just, I like this trap so much.

20:15 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, this is the kind of thing at an movie. [SPEAKER_01]: I would have been really happy, but oh, that's how they got him in the end. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: But instead, he just kills them all in teleports away. [SPEAKER_01]: Although, it does set him up to his fall, because the events of this making much even more open to nirgle.

20:31 [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually more, he part of a typhus, which he shouldn't have. [SPEAKER_01]: different, no different day. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the jotty type though. [SPEAKER_01]: Jagatai is in the pseudo warp because now as you said before, the webway is meant for the people, the webway wants in it.

20:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So they're in the webways, but demons have access. [SPEAKER_01]: And as they're going through the gatherfield fails, and Jagatai is just having to fight demons off. [SPEAKER_01]: And since they're in the warp, it's a lot harder to fight the demons, but they're not in the full warp, so the bolters and [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit above.

21:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I do love everything that's happening on this, because they're fighting fighting fighting fighting, of course, they have to have a big battle. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So a keeper of secret rolls out in Jagatai has to fight it. [SPEAKER_00]: And I love the fact that at one point in time, Jagatai is choking out a keeper of secret.

21:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So I kind of go. [SPEAKER_00]: was it a rear naked? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, well, yeah, he tackles it so it's choking it and then tears it keep her sword and shake his sword and do it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right. [SPEAKER_00]: And then promises to cleanse the galaxy of all demons. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, yeah, good for you, Jagatai.

21:37 [SPEAKER_01]: You got some strong opinions here. [SPEAKER_01]: This all ends with another really great scene. [SPEAKER_01]: So eventually, we then cut and do it outside of salt where the space wolves and Lehman Ross are because he he's still near salt at this point with people for it. [SPEAKER_01]: Lehman has left salt.

21:51 [SPEAKER_01]: to go actually attack Horace later. [SPEAKER_01]: This is when he's still there. [SPEAKER_01]: And on their sensors, they get told that there's a fleet of arriving via the warp. [SPEAKER_01]: That's all they can see it is. [SPEAKER_01]: So they get ready to attack it and then when it translates in, it's the white scars.

22:05 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the guys that abandoned him when the Alpha Legion were trying to kill him, he's not super cool about that. [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't really just let this go, either. [SPEAKER_01]: No, it is kind of a bad ass scene for Jagatai because Jagatai then, [SPEAKER_01]: sense of request.

22:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to tell a port about the bridge one person and Lehman goes, I got this. [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 100%. [SPEAKER_01]: That's going to be great. [SPEAKER_01]: And Jagatai arrives and in the description, he's, his armor is bleeding. [SPEAKER_01]: I also mixed with their ships had claw marks on them.

22:33 [SPEAKER_01]: His list is that had actual claw marks. [SPEAKER_01]: And remember, but Joseph, his face is bleeding. [SPEAKER_01]: He is beat up and he's unarmed. [SPEAKER_01]: And Lehman just lays into him about basically giving me how many of my brothers I've lost with you He's not going to make fiyati yada and jagatai just kind of looks at him and just goes like Look man, not that I don't care, but I [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just kind of ignore it.

22:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It just goes, we just got to go back to Tera dude. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, I can't do shit. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, his reaction is literally through the, I've had a day. [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. [SPEAKER_01]: If you are mad, but he says something akin to, you know, I've taken my legion through hell to get here, nothing stopping us and getting a Tera.

23:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And even wemen's like, all right, man, like, you're taking the fun at a punching you. [SPEAKER_01]: I will note that Jack and I does turn to Lehman and say, hey, I look forward to fighting with you next to you on the wall. [SPEAKER_01]: So Tara, at least Lehman gives the foreshadow of, yeah, I won't be there.

23:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I had other stuff to do because it is true, Lehman's going to go now. [SPEAKER_01]: Trying to run it right. [SPEAKER_01]: He's going to be a success with that horse. [SPEAKER_00]: Staving seems very small. [SPEAKER_01]: We put a spoon through it, but with that we're gonna stop the coverage of the white scars there and jump I don't know like six months.

23:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I head to the scouring and the reason why is the set before we'll say it again We're gonna cover the siege of Tara heavily in depth and it just would be weird to be bouncing around for the rest of this cast on that So screw that we'll be right back after a quick break. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go to the scouring [SPEAKER_01]: Horus' dead spoiler alert, by the way.

24:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Guess you didn't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, sorry. [SPEAKER_01]: No, Meg guys won everything's done. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: All the primarks arrive on Terra and the white scars are not much of a legion at this point. [SPEAKER_01]: They, they're better off than the blood angels because Jagantai stole a lie, but they took losses.

24:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they also, Jagantai made a couple questionable decisions to go outside of the walls and Jagantai's got pummeled. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he also has been run through by Morterian. [SPEAKER_01]: So he's not doing great. [SPEAKER_00]: He fully excavated though. [SPEAKER_01]: He did. [SPEAKER_01]: He did.

24:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not how a side works. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's okay. [SPEAKER_01]: It's okay. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about that in that case. [SPEAKER_00]: He has to just go up and down. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I attacked you on an L. That's not how that works.

24:50 [SPEAKER_01]: But. [SPEAKER_01]: The lion and Leamon and Dorn actually a bit here are just on team. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go kill. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go kill while the killings good. [SPEAKER_01]: Because the traders are broken, let's hunt them down and shoot them all in the back. [SPEAKER_01]: And Gilliamins are like, I hear you, but maybe we can put some of the fires out because it's our home is literally on fire and followed by a giant chorus of shut up nerd.

25:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And then Jagatai pipes up and goes, it is build now hot later. [SPEAKER_01]: That's his entire contribution to this, but it's meant, I think it's meant to be a more powerful line than how I delivered it there. [SPEAKER_01]: The irony is actually, Jack, a tie becomes this weird ally of Gilliman throughout the scouring, because he keeps siding with Gilliman, I guess, the quote Shakespeare, Nizuria Cointz and Amistrine, Bedvellows, they become not really friends, they just, but there's a line on views.

25:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Because to the con, there's a major supporter of the [SPEAKER_01]: No, everyone else is fighting. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sideways, because he's a supporter of it, but one, he just realizes it's not even for the primarxes. [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't want other people to get corrupting because everybody's so full of hatred for their brothers in that trade.

26:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: But also, [SPEAKER_00]: He says I'm going to do all this and he does the end of Mike's car's Mickey team does such a every single thing. [SPEAKER_00]: But they still kind of go, this is how we do things. [SPEAKER_00]: They have a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: They have so many more bikes.

26:26 [SPEAKER_00]: They have so much of the way that they fight is significantly different because of the way that the Wade's car is fighting period. [SPEAKER_00]: They're codeics compliant. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, they're more codeics compliant than the [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, hundred percent of us are saying, but they have their own fights though.

26:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but to Brad's point with Jagat High realized was that there is so much hate sitting within the Astardase. [SPEAKER_01]: Not just the primates, but the Astardase. [SPEAKER_01]: They have to break this up. [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to because he saw with the water lodges into his own chapter.

26:56 [SPEAKER_01]: He's one of the, because he's one of the few who actually had the water lodges go off and survives. [SPEAKER_01]: didn't have the full thing go to get exactly so he seized no we have to break this up and stop this for the same time selfishly he also realizes it won't hurt his legion because his cons happen operate independently anyway he can break his legion up they're already broken up I mean they were when they were the star hunters it's natural for us and that's a say it's how he already operates he just operates outside of exactly how the code is to start his works as far as [SPEAKER_00]: what forces you bring, you know, which is fine, it's more of the codex to start is was kind of use more like the pirate code more than anything.

27:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, everyone, everyone signed the codex to start is like, there's no inspectors, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Not cool. [SPEAKER_01]: It's cool. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, except for Lehman, who sent a picture of his butter. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Lehman, Lehman, was just like, well, technically, the dark angels who were like, [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

27:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the lion did say yes and just went, I'm going to go do whatever I want. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: You can put my name at the bottom if you'd like. [SPEAKER_01]: Cool. [SPEAKER_01]: You're welcome. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, come, come check on it whenever you feel like it. [SPEAKER_01]: Spoiler alert.

28:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't go near my home world. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's a Jagatai. [SPEAKER_01]: So Jagatai does eventually heal from his wounds and he goes out into the galaxy to kind of reset everything. [SPEAKER_01]: But not too long into this. [SPEAKER_01]: His home sector, [SPEAKER_01]: comes under heavy assault from everywhere.

28:24 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got a emperors children take over one planet. [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be the crap out of the dark mechanic on the cannon. [SPEAKER_01]: He's got mutants because why not? [SPEAKER_01]: But the big one is Chagoris. [SPEAKER_01]: Chagoris suddenly comes under attack by, I'm going to go with third edition, Jukari.

28:42 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the big hatch, Jukari. [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody knows the more powerful you are, the bigger hat you wear if you're elder, dark or light. [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: So this is the big hat dark elder we're there. [SPEAKER_01]: And they were doing horrific things across Jagorus because remember, Jagorus is a backwards planet.

29:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It's black powder technology. [SPEAKER_01]: So the Jaguar, this is my new favorite place and they're just dragging people back into the war. [SPEAKER_01]: They're doing awful things. [SPEAKER_01]: And Jagatai has an opinion on that as strong one. [SPEAKER_01]: So he goes there and begins hunting them down.

29:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And eventually he looks for the source and the source is of course in a big dark forest that's too dense to get bikes through. [SPEAKER_01]: So they go in on foot followed by Admiral Akbar even jumps up a couple of times going guys seriously like you know. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's come in up.

29:35 [SPEAKER_00]: jog a tie eventually makes it to the web way and there's an arc on there and the arc on is just talking shit as they do yeah also and it's in the watch if you go to where hammer plus there's a bunch of scenes of the dark held art in hammer and bolter but also in start days they have a great one with that where they effectively go hey don't get captured by the dark held art anyone else actually [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, anyone's better than this.

30:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So Jogatai and his first brotherhood charge up the way because of course there's stairs. [SPEAKER_01]: Why wouldn't there be stairs? [SPEAKER_00]: This is a huge trap in the first place. [SPEAKER_00]: They just why, but I'm just pouring out there were stairs. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea.

30:16 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a little bit of stairs with comical acne, but that's why the road road. [SPEAKER_01]: Why did there have to be stairs? [SPEAKER_01]: Why does this thing have elevated? [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: No idea. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying it's they're trying to, one of the big things they talked about in some of the dark out their books is they wanted a, they want in one of these primers.

30:35 [SPEAKER_00]: They've wanted one for a while. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're interested. [SPEAKER_01]: They look fun. [SPEAKER_01]: So as Jagatana first brotherhood going to the web way, of course, the web way collapses and he's never heard from again. [SPEAKER_01]: That is that there are things written in code x is that the bully is that he went to the web way to pursue the endless fight in an endless hunt.

30:57 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the last hunt. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And what he, because this is, he's able to do there what he's always wanted to do, which is hunt down. [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry. [SPEAKER_00]: He's not even lasted. [SPEAKER_00]: It's final hunt. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

31:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And so for people who maybe don't know the lore as well, when people make the jokes about how Jagatai is hanging out with his girlfriends in the arena, then Kamaura, this is why. [SPEAKER_01]: The belief is that he is in Kamaura and he's happy, not as a archon, right, like that, but just it's endless battle, which is really all Jagatai wants.

31:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So. [SPEAKER_01]: That's where the reference comes from. [SPEAKER_00]: So now you know, well, the rest of the chapter is not super excited about the loss of their primar and the fact that they, the elder, by the way, still in this time, elder are L. D. There's no difference between them.

31:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, they, the whites were having been on a 10,000 year hunt for elder. [SPEAKER_01]: They find Eldar, they kill Eldar, they are not fans of Eldar. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you know that the bigger problem, though, is that whenever your primar disappears, it always affects the Legion of One Way or another.

32:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of them less so ultra-marines, and then I couldn't think that dead ones. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm talking about just the ones where they're just not there. [SPEAKER_01]: And the white scars have an interesting problem. [SPEAKER_01]: First off, Chagoris falls to disarray. [SPEAKER_01]: The tribes lose all the unification, and they go back to ritual combat with each other, even though abundant research.

32:27 [SPEAKER_00]: No sense, but could say. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Also, the white scars themselves begin to devolve, because originally all the successor chapters were sold lined in a jogger tie. [SPEAKER_01]: They were separate, but they would come together when needed. [SPEAKER_01]: But the new successor chapters become a lot more independent.

32:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And in fact, we see more and more of this with the next 10,000 years of white scars. [SPEAKER_01]: We get almost nothing on the white scars in the first 10,000 years. [SPEAKER_01]: You have M34, they fight some orcs, which is a scene where white scars against evil sons. [SPEAKER_01]: So, bite your own bite.

33:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Or not. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was going to say it's bite-cut bike. [SPEAKER_00]: It's go fast versus go fast. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, kind of cool scene. [SPEAKER_01]: Then so that's 3,000 years. [SPEAKER_01]: Then we go to M35. [SPEAKER_01]: They're in the Sabot world crusades with St. Sabot.

33:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So then we go 2,000 more years to what's called the cursed year, which is just a cool story, where apparently three chapter masters all died back to back in their first engagements. [SPEAKER_01]: And the storm series were like, there's an issue. [SPEAKER_01]: So they had everyone come to Chagoras for a huge party.

33:32 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what it was. [SPEAKER_01]: They had a big party that it's some racing of bikes probably drunk, and then a blood ritual, and now everything's better for a bit, and then that's M37, and then we go to M41. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the distances I just gave you all of that. [SPEAKER_01]: That's how little it's actually covered.

33:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So now we're at M41, 10,000 years after the disappearance of Jagatai and this old enemy of the white scar deemed Valdora, Susan Alphill Legion, Demon Prince, has surfaced again. [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, before we let's talk about something else real quick, the white scars kind of another vote, Hannah Robinson, newer, but the vote, hand grudged thing, white scars do that too.

34:14 [SPEAKER_01]: The white scars will label you as prey and then the master of the hunt will spend his life [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. [SPEAKER_00]: And massive, in the design, every, they, they basically figure out ways, the most effective ways to kill you. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a good job on that. [SPEAKER_01]: And, but the white scars I want to talk about, they have a little bit of an issue.

34:35 [SPEAKER_01]: What we know so far is all of the ones when they've lost their primarck until they get it back have suffering a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're listening to this now, there's two chapters that have gotten their primarck back and they've really write it to the [SPEAKER_01]: for Dorn is Dorn back, if it's a future, hopefully Dorn's back to make Brad happy, but not because not having a primar causes a lot of allegiance to fault and more basal natures.

35:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Pride, vengeance, et cetera, not the ultramarines. [SPEAKER_01]: They figure it out, but they also had Calgar and some other stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess the blade angels with Dante were a pretty good spotty, except for the full flesh terror thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Salamanders, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Ravenguard, White Skars, they all spend a lot of their time searching for enemies to fight.

35:22 [SPEAKER_01]: This is my opinion, but I think a lot of the endeavors Space Wolves are big one of this. [SPEAKER_01]: They go into their heroic. [SPEAKER_01]: They kind of lack purpose. [SPEAKER_01]: It's they're doing good things that in the kind of, in a microscope are very good, but in the grand scheme, they really eating the Imperium.

35:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And worse is what we're seeing now with Gilliman with the lying from the back. [SPEAKER_01]: I actually will give Dante some credit on that. [SPEAKER_01]: Dante was doing stuff that was kind of more broader in Perium, but in general, I tend to say, [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: These guys going back and maybe when Dorn comes back, I'll just throw this one out there hard by the way, I just say, you know, we're going to God stop saying it.

36:03 [SPEAKER_01]: But for the white scars, they're problem is it seems this endless crudges become an issue for them, which you can either interpret as them getting in trouble or just poor writing, because in a sense of the system they've written for the white scars, I can't tell the GW writers [SPEAKER_01]: We like drama, so we're going to write everything about the White Scarves is super dramatic.

36:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I like the grudge thing, though, because it doesn't give them their own premise, though. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I think they're overwhelmed with their grudges, which is interesting of problem the vote and also have. [SPEAKER_01]: So, but back to Valdora. [SPEAKER_01]: So, Valdora's is an Alpha Legion captain who did enough for the dark gods to reward him with being a demon prince, and that the enough was he used some dark age of technology, weaponry, [SPEAKER_01]: So the Khan, the master of the hunt, had been hunting him for centuries.

36:58 [SPEAKER_01]: They need him dead. [SPEAKER_01]: Valdora's though is both Alpha Legion and a demon prince. [SPEAKER_01]: So tracking him down, and a little bit difficult. [SPEAKER_01]: Not a lot of billboards, like, hey, find me here. [SPEAKER_01]: And so, he's combining the best of both those two avoid stuff.

37:13 [SPEAKER_01]: this whole book, I'm gonna be honest, I didn't like, I'm sorry guys if I'm not giving it a lot of energy but I just didn't like it because it all comes down to the raven guard or also hunting form. [SPEAKER_01]: And then the two of them bump into each other. [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to talk about this a bit because in the scars lore, they are often [SPEAKER_00]: in other people's stories and or tandem stories with them, which is why you have less lore that's specific to white scars.

37:39 [SPEAKER_00]: They're in a ton of different conflicts. [SPEAKER_00]: They're in a ton of different stories. [SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of times they are just in and they're not leading. [SPEAKER_00]: And now the white scars have a couple of books that are the white scars books. [SPEAKER_00]: But [SPEAKER_01]: One word talking about here.

37:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It's from one of those books. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's my point. [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. [SPEAKER_01]: There are only two tutorials. [SPEAKER_01]: They were the co-star in their own book because yes, they get the killing strike. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's only because cave on strike is there and present.

38:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is Brad's completely right. [SPEAKER_01]: We have one of the ones we have. [SPEAKER_01]: We've got the Battle for Fire, the Blood Swarm, Rinsworld, the World of Armageddon, [SPEAKER_01]: 1913 black crusade perfect. [SPEAKER_01]: It is nonstop almost every engagement that has that's not like a small battle at the white scarves are involved with they are solo And can compare across that.

38:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, they're not so it's a comparing contrast that with the space wolves the blood angels obviously the ultramarines But they're closer boys. [SPEAKER_01]: You take them out if you want to most of the other ones will be the main star [SPEAKER_01]: You don't really see that with the white scars.

38:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think my opinion is it's because of the codex of studies. [SPEAKER_00]: And the things that that already operated like that, they operated in independent units around to harass and delay. [SPEAKER_00]: That was their original purpose. [SPEAKER_00]: They were still the star hunters.

39:01 [SPEAKER_00]: They went out and they kind of continued that of a lot of different actions to harass and delay. [SPEAKER_00]: and because of that they get written like that, but they also get less writing because of that because they're the other. [SPEAKER_00]: They're so and so is here and also the white scars are doing their thing.

39:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: And so what you have is each con is leading their own brotherhood, which is kind of like a mini-legent. [SPEAKER_01]: They've gone back to the being the star hunters and effect. [SPEAKER_01]: And as a result, they're just less significant. [SPEAKER_01]: They tag along to other conflicts.

39:35 [SPEAKER_01]: They're important. [SPEAKER_01]: They play a key role, but they're just secondary. [SPEAKER_01]: And there's really only a couple. [SPEAKER_00]: In this story, because they're doing what they're supposed to do. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you're also putting themselves at wild danger, but they really underplay it in the lore.

39:51 [SPEAKER_00]: When you read about the white scars, you grow, hey, man, aren't these guys like operating [SPEAKER_00]: And then somebody else is doing something, you're like, yeah, but you don't get to read enough about that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but now I want to talk about there are a couple stories where they are solo.

40:09 [SPEAKER_01]: This is their story and what you learn is when they're solo, they tend to, you know, make the grudges thing or you go through it overreact and we'll start with, but it's true that it must have a chagoris itself. [SPEAKER_01]: No surprise. [SPEAKER_01]: Chagoris becomes important. [SPEAKER_01]: So, [SPEAKER_01]: During Gaza's Third War of Armageddon, at the same time, here on Black Heart as Fleet came out of the maelstrom.

40:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And your own starts conquering World after World because the Imperium is very focused on gas who is the bigger threat. [SPEAKER_01]: But eventually, kind of like with the story of Ball, here on's fleet is on a path right toward Chagoris, so they know where it's going. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just a lot of homages to ball in this one.

40:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And the entire, so they call in for the entire legion to return home. [SPEAKER_01]: Not successor chapters, but the whole legion to come home because Huron's on his way. [SPEAKER_01]: Even with all that Huron's still successful, he gets to Chagoras, starts jacking Chagoras up. [SPEAKER_01]: Because again, the people of Chagoras have horses with bow and arrows.

41:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Not horses with las rifles, which would have totally changed everything around. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I've heard that. [SPEAKER_00]: That's all explosive charges on their lances. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Ellie doesn't have land speeder. [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.

41:17 [SPEAKER_01]: But things get a land speeder, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, if you just get down here, it's spoken like a short person. [SPEAKER_01]: If you come down here, I'm going to punch you very hard in the face. [SPEAKER_01]: Hell yeah, I'm taking it right. [SPEAKER_01]: What if my face is too far away?

41:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Shut up. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, uh, just wait for your face to be closer. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it ends up having to make things worse as as this invasion of chagoras is going on, the rift opens. [SPEAKER_01]: So now you have cure on and the never board all over the planet. [SPEAKER_01]: And the white scars do a very cool move.

41:47 [SPEAKER_01]: They do they park and back to their roots and they say we're going to lead a aggressive powerful charge at the heart of their forces. [SPEAKER_01]: And then as we hit them we're going to run away [SPEAKER_01]: back towards our super secret base on Chagoras. [SPEAKER_01]: And this works.

42:03 [SPEAKER_01]: The force of here on the demons chase the white scars back to their main fortress for no apparent reason other than here on apparently becoming very bad at tactics. [SPEAKER_01]: And they defeat in the era. [SPEAKER_00]: Rock them. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they just defeat them. [SPEAKER_00]: They wreck up.

42:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And they saved Chagoras. [SPEAKER_01]: But that's not the end of the story. [SPEAKER_01]: His what happens is this is over. [SPEAKER_01]: There is a the chapter master of the white scars named Jubalcon. [SPEAKER_01]: A Jubalcon cannot get over what just happened at Chagoras from here on.

42:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So, he leads what's written, air quotes here, a daring raid, also translated as incredibly stupid idea to go get vengeance. [SPEAKER_01]: They just pick this space station that the Red Corps hears and sees. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure if you're not supposed to be there, and they go and they attack the space station, and Jubalcon leads the attack, and they do so with this massively undersized force because they'd taken so many losses at Chagoras and didn't want to ask anyone for help.

43:04 [SPEAKER_01]: during a jubal gets trapped in the explosion and gets captured by the red corsairs. [SPEAKER_01]: He's rescued later by the white scars, but I only have a month if not more of torture at the hand of Huron Black. [SPEAKER_01]: Huron. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, leaving him physically broken, and there's some questions about him as mental acumen at this point.

43:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And this was totally avoidable. [SPEAKER_01]: He's striking back at you on, yeah, it's the right call, but he could have just, he did it on hard boats. [SPEAKER_01]: We all play a video game. [SPEAKER_00]: You must share the first thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Just, you don't have to play on Nightmare mode, guys.

43:35 [SPEAKER_01]: You can, if you want, but it's, let's play. [SPEAKER_01]: Playing in a Nightmare mode, where if I lose, I get captured and tortured in real life, yeah, I'm gonna turn it down to easy. [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks. [SPEAKER_01]: It seems more fun, you know, of Squid Games action here. [SPEAKER_01]: So, [SPEAKER_01]: The way it ends up happening is jubal is really beat up for this and totally avoidable.

43:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is somewhat of a common thing with them. [SPEAKER_01]: The next thing occurs with the towel. [SPEAKER_01]: So the world is a grown-in and while Huron is moving towards Chagoris, Shadowson is leading the towel and against the Kosoro Khan. [SPEAKER_01]: And it doesn't go well for Crosaro that probably has the tau are faster than the white scarves.

44:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So the thing that he's supposed to be good at, they're better at. [SPEAKER_01]: Also despite their bad vision, they're very good trackers. [SPEAKER_01]: Never getting over the bad vision of the tau thing, dumbest thing I've ever read in my life. [SPEAKER_01]: We're not dumbest ever. [SPEAKER_01]: I read dumber things, but it's a top and on GW.

44:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Crosaro becomes obsessed with killing Shadowsome. [SPEAKER_01]: Even though he's getting phone calls saying or messages, I guess Astropath calls saying, hey, Chagoras is in danger because you, we need everyone here to help out. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's just like, yeah, be there in a minute.

44:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I have to deal with this thing. [SPEAKER_01]: So his homeworld may burn over this grudge. [SPEAKER_01]: And in the book he's quoted as saying, I want to hit the towel so hard that they never come back. [SPEAKER_01]: Does not succeed. [SPEAKER_00]: And just going to act way before the damn nights were coming.

45:08 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing.

45:16 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing.

45:24 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's stupid, because once again, the raven guard has to show up to help him out. [SPEAKER_01]: And Cossero leads a charge directly into an obvious trap, loses a bunch of warriors in the process, plus a bunch of supplies, and doesn't really achieve anything.

45:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Shut up, son, listen. [SPEAKER_00]: To be fair, to be fair, he does. [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's a trap. [SPEAKER_00]: He just thinks that he's going to use his, quote, superior warrior instincts that he's just going to overcome it. [SPEAKER_00]: He knows they're leading him into it, but by leading him into it, they're going to be susceptible and close to it, but he'll be able to kill his money.

46:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's the vicinity. [SPEAKER_01]: I know that you know that I know, no, man. [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't work. [SPEAKER_01]: And as a result, he takes pretty significant losses and he's late, getting back to Jagorus to help out. [SPEAKER_01]: He does get back to help out against Huron, but not till [SPEAKER_01]: In this place out over and over again, their college shitty spacels, where it comes this way, they get really upset about something and they overcommit.

46:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So the spacels that would bring the heat when they do this, the issue I have with the white scars, a lot of times they seem to want to fight almost solo to prove some sort of I'm a two tonic knight. [SPEAKER_01]: And we even says with the jukari, because they are obsessed with killing the jukari.

46:40 [SPEAKER_01]: and they do it over and over again, but they take significant casualties because again, the jukari are faster than the white scars. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, even that's sort of the alpha legion story was talked about earlier. [SPEAKER_01]: Same thing occurs in this, but she's one side, one funny.

46:56 [SPEAKER_01]: First one is you have a company champion invokes single combat against an alpha legion lieutenant. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to teach you a lesson. [SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't know the alpha legion lieutenant is filled with a greater demon and gets walked by that lieutenant. [SPEAKER_01]: But there's always to do it because what he could have done instead is what happens to another person in the white scar.

47:16 [SPEAKER_01]: So he could have just had everyone kill this lieutenant. [SPEAKER_01]: Later in the same book, we have a white scar, I feel why, but he challenges the Alpha agent commander to single combat. [SPEAKER_01]: And the Alpha Legion commander looks at him, hears him, and then goes, nah, and then has the Alpha agent gun [SPEAKER_01]: which is what you could have done and not lost your company champion to a lieutenant.

47:42 [SPEAKER_01]: But this is the white scars over and over and over again. [SPEAKER_01]: Shubers and pride, Shubers and pride, they had this in need. [SPEAKER_00]: For the white scars fans, some of the throw it out there. [SPEAKER_00]: They have really evolved in their tactics, though, because in the recent books, they've done a ton of super fast hitting.

48:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Now they're in a lot of, like I said, they were stuck in the early, they're in a lot of other people's books and stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: But people call in the white scars now to do lightning fast raids, and it feels like they hit and get out as opposed to [SPEAKER_00]: just straight vengeance, which they had for a while, in the 41st, in a lot of their stories.

48:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So you have these, but I think that they're getting back in the writing of these, the more recent writings, I feel that they're getting, that they're giving the white scarce more of the roots of harassing, leaving, harassing, leaving, but they're in there. [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I'm not against this writing of them being this warriors who sometimes being a warrior gets the better of them.

48:41 [SPEAKER_01]: In somebody's it's actually kind of cool that those create a uniqueness to them, but it is a noticeable flaw that is getting exploited by enemies on occasion. [SPEAKER_01]: So don't think that's any shit talking to the white scars. [SPEAKER_01]: It's more just me pointing out, hey, there's something about them.

48:56 [SPEAKER_01]: That's affecting. [SPEAKER_01]: But with that, I think that's a good place to stop. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see what GW does with them. [SPEAKER_01]: Next week, we're going to be staying with the Loyalist. [SPEAKER_01]: We recover our last of our Loyalist factions from the Horace Heresy and a dive into the Ironhands, their origin.

49:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Ironhands are within. [SPEAKER_00]: Iron without. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know what they are without, their primarck. [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll talk about that and follow them through the heresy and then probably talk quite a bit about why chaplain dreadnought some of the byath on dreadnought some of the longer in the game.

49:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're why it'll be fine. [SPEAKER_01]: Our hands are pretty cool. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a fun story. [SPEAKER_01]: I pretty rough ending, but yeah, that's what we cool. [SPEAKER_01]: But until then, John Barsotti, Brad Chester. [SPEAKER_01]: Disguise. [SPEAKER_01]: See you guys next week.

49:51 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.