130 | 15hr NIAD Debrief - Systems, Gear, & Two Short Fix Falls w/ Erik Griffith

00:00:00:06 - 00:00:10:29 Erik Okay, so I have a little list of questions for you guys. I feel like that segue very easily, Bryce, because you're kind of talking about you've been on the route, you know, you've done it over multiple days.

00:00:10:29 - 00:00:32:23 Erik Both of you guys have. How did it feel in comparison to doing it over multiple days and topping out versus doing it in a dude pretty fast? Like, that's a pretty fast time for your guys's first one, by the way. So kudos. Amazing. Yeah, totally. I did not do it that fast my first time. Not even close.

00:00:32:25 - 00:00:38:20 Erik But how did it feel climbing that route in

00:00:38:22 - 00:00:59:03 Bryce Yeah I mean it wasn't that different than like doing it in a different style. It's obviously nicer not to haul, but I think my expectation going into it was that it was going to feel like I was just like pushing and rushing and go, go, go and like trying to do everything fast. But it really wasn't like that at all.

00:00:59:04 - 00:01:17:28 Bryce Like my experience was just like any other day of climbing. It was just a lot of pitches and you just kept going one after the other and you know, and next thing you know, it's like all of a sudden you're it's my block and we're half, you know, halfway done with our day. And it's like, oh, cool. Like we're actually going to do this.

00:01:17:28 - 00:01:41:10 Bryce And, and then once my block, I think that was where I was never like, oh my gosh, I got a hurry. It was just like, I'm at the speed that I'm happy yet, and I'll get to the top when I get to the top. And that's what we did. And it was just like super smooth. And I think the one thing that surprised me the most was how fast it went when I was leading.

00:01:41:10 - 00:02:00:26 Bryce Not like my actual speed, but how fast time went by. So like when you're the first half when I was going, Kyle the whole time, you know, you have a ton of downtime and you're just building and then you're like waiting for them to say, I'm off so you can quickly get into gear and start jogging. But for most of the time you're just kind of sitting there and time goes slow.

00:02:00:26 - 00:02:19:29 Bryce But then once it was my block, I mean, I it was like a three hour 40 minutes to camp six from camp for and when I got there it was like, oh my gosh, it's already been over 3.5 hours. Like, I feel like I've been climbing for maybe an our, you know, like because you're just short fixing. You're just there's zero downtime.

00:02:19:29 - 00:02:25:26 Bryce And so you're just moving constantly for 3.5 hours and it's like, oh yeah, cool. I covered a lot of ground.

00:02:25:29 - 00:02:30:05 Kyle Yeah. I mean, I'll second that.

00:02:30:07 - 00:02:46:19 Kyle There's like a lot of things here that I wanted to say. First off, I saw a interview with Alex Honnold and he was talking about his first time doing El Cap, and he said it took him 21 hours or something like that. So I was like, hell

00:02:46:21 - 00:03:18:09 Erik Dude. Dude. I mean, you know, when you guys did 15, I was like, so my my first time it was the same. It was like my very first time climbing El Cap ever was nose in a push. We did it over two days and we did it like alpine. Totally heinous. We both carried backpacks, was like a gallon and a half of water in gear and like, we're just like rock climbing with like, like a, you know, like you like, see the like like alpinist with like, like the big Bibi backpack.

00:03:18:10 - 00:03:19:22 Erik Like we were climbing the

00:03:19:24 - 00:03:24:19 Bryce We passed we passed the party that did exactly that style.

00:03:24:21 - 00:03:45:22 Erik Dude. It's so it's so not fun. It's so, like brutal. Like we did, like 56 hours. We did like, 23 hours of climbing the first day and then, like, huddled on a ledge, you know, it was just like it was horrendous, dude. And then the next time I did it, you know, I did it in like 23 hours, and then I did it in 19 hours, and then I did it in 15 hours.

00:03:45:27 - 00:04:11:12 Erik And it was like I had a very kind of slow progression of those times. You know, and I was thinking about this too, like, I, I did a lot of lead rope soloing before I did it, and I didn't really have, like, any know how. I just kind of was teaching myself. And I was just like going out and like lead rope soloing and bumbling, like, I remember, like, trying to, like Libra solo, central pillar of frenzy and just, like, being stuck.

00:04:11:13 - 00:04:12:11 Erik Like just stuck.

00:04:12:12 - 00:04:26:17 Erik couldn't go up. And then like something was preventing me from rappelling. And I was just like, I hate everything about this, you know, like, and dude, you guys just rock up, you know, 15 hours. I mean, that's that's incredible. That's

00:04:26:20 - 00:04:41:19 Kyle know, it's funny. We got to the top and I think we were we were happy. But I think we both had like pretty high expectations. We're like we're like 8 hour or 12 hour I like we're going to crush it. You know, like we had we had some pretty high expectations.

00:04:41:19 - 00:05:04:12 Kyle And to Bryce's point, I think like because not necessarily because of that pressure, but like I had the same expectation of like, this is going to be a fucking race, right? Like, I have background in cross country. Like, I know what it takes to, like, move fast and try hard. And so I'm just like, that's kind of like what I brought to the equation, especially with my block being first.

00:05:04:12 - 00:05:33:27 Kyle And I think the pacing was fine until I got to the stove legs. And then that's where, like I was moving too fast for the capabilities that I was bringing to the climb and that, you know, resulted in in my falls. But after that, after the stove legs, I was able to kind of find that like pacing where you were talking about like that 35%, which is so weird to me because like I said, and I guess I'm repeating myself here, but yeah, like you think of Naiad and you think you're just sprinting up the thing, but it has 0% to do with that.

00:05:33:27 - 00:05:40:02 Kyle It's just consistent, efficient movement with very little errors and

00:05:40:04 - 00:05:43:01 Bryce Minimizing errors. Yeah.

00:05:43:03 - 00:05:53:22 Kyle And it's so cool how much ground you can cover when you just do things right in a like controlled, consistent manner. And that was a huge, huge revelation for me.

00:05:53:29 - 00:06:13:18 Bryce I'd say our number one like success. Like for why we did it in a decent amount of time for our first time was just like our consistency climbing with each other and like knowing exactly what to do when you get to the boy who's, you know, I'm handing you gear and you're taking a sip of water, it's like the little just saving.

00:06:13:23 - 00:06:31:22 Bryce Like our transitions were incredibly fast. If we even did meet up a lot of the times, like the top half, I don't think we met up more than just once at camp six because it was just like short fix and go. But when we, you know, you observe other parties and you're like, man, you guys are 15 minute belay switch overs every single time.

00:06:31:23 - 00:06:35:19 Bryce Like what? What are you doing?

00:06:35:22 - 00:06:37:13 Bryce So.

00:06:37:16 - 00:06:41:17 Erik that's it. Right? It's like, you know those those seconds add minutes. Those minutes

00:06:41:19 - 00:06:45:01 Kyle Yeah, that's the big thing. Yeah.

00:06:45:03 - 00:06:55:27 Erik yep. Yep. And when you're speed climbing you know I think that, you know, I've talked to folks, quite a few folks that kind of like, oh, you know, like what should I, you know, and I've had people where they're like, oh, I don't really want a short fix.

00:06:55:27 - 00:07:17:16 Erik And I'm like, no, no, like, you should short fix. Not necessarily just because you're moving up the terrain, but it's also because you just don't rendezvous. And then that rendezvous time is gone. You're just like you're you're already rock climbing. You know, you're already you've done a transition without doing a transition, if that makes sense. Like you're already 20ft up the pitch and yeah, you've gained like 20ft.

00:07:17:16 - 00:07:38:09 Erik But that's not a lot. But it's more of like you're here now and it's like, okay, but okay, keep keep rock climbing, you know? And it's like, oh, if I need gear, like clip the tagline, pull it up, keep going. And it's there's never that like,

00:07:38:11 - 00:08:04:21 Erik me. I'm that Chatty Cathy. I'll sit there and just be like, yeah, you know, just you're just like, no, no. We have, you know, keep keep the team moving upward. Speaking of short fixing, Kyle. Amazing. Okay, so I thought about this a lot recently, and, you know, like, it's I am like, okay, so I'm thoroughly impressed with the time, but I think I'm even more impressed.

00:08:04:22 - 00:08:19:16 Erik Like, okay, I'll just I'll be completely honest. I'm just gonna, like, teleport myself to you guys like bodies, right? Rock out to the valley. Kyle, how many times have you lead rope soloed before this,

00:08:19:18 - 00:08:27:01 Bryce I had a, I had a brand new Revo that, that we were trying to figure out how to use.

00:08:27:04 - 00:08:40:07 Kyle who aren't watching this, I have, I had zero I had intentions to have some practice but my schedule just didn't make it work. I had zero lead rope solo or short fixing experience leading up to this objective.

00:08:40:09 - 00:09:05:09 Erik Dude, if I was going to do the Nyad for, like, my first time, it, like, when you walk to the days of El Cap and you, like, look up, you're just like. Like, should we go Crag? Like, are we, are we sure? Like, we could just we could just not do this gigantic rock face. Like it's ultra intimidating, like, walk to the base and you're just like, oh, wow.

00:09:05:09 - 00:09:28:09 Erik It's much bigger. You know? It's like you drive in, you're like, oh, wow. It's really big. And, you know, like, dude, if if it was my first time lead rope soloing, take a whip and sheath my rope, I'd be like, Bryce, I hope you find an amazing partner for the next whatever. Two days I'm going to go home.

00:09:28:11 - 00:09:48:16 Erik Have a great time. Maybe I'll come back next year. I might even take a little bit of time off rock climbing. Like I thought about this in the car, like today. Like driving home. I was just like, dude, if I rode the sheath of my rope down to, like, the, like,

00:09:48:19 - 00:10:03:07 Erik I like I'm gonna like, you know, it's so amazing that not only did you not do that, you're just like, let's just buy a thicker rope. Like, that's that is the most amazing. Like, let's just go to the gear shop and let's just get a unicorn ten mil.

00:10:03:08 - 00:10:16:27 Erik Like, we'll be fine. That sounds great. Like that would never occur to me. And it's amazing. And then you took the whip again and then still did

00:10:17:00 - 00:10:40:15 Bryce We I mean we I'll let Kyle I'll let Kyle tell the whole story, but yeah, we we just wanted to get that out of the way. So when it happened on our actual go, we weren't nearly as worried about it, you know. But yeah, we were between the nine mil and the ten mil rope because I had the unicorn feel from when I did our big wall and we had the 9 million people were saying, yeah, like 9 to 9 and a half.

00:10:40:15 - 00:10:52:11 Bryce So we decided on the nine mil. But, yeah, I don't think I'd rock a maximum nine mil anymore if I was lead rope soloing. But the Beal.

00:10:52:13 - 00:10:56:15 Kyle Yeah.

00:10:56:17 - 00:11:02:27 Kyle Maximum 9.1 70 meter regular rope

00:11:03:00 - 00:11:04:12 Bryce Like pretty near.

00:11:04:15 - 00:11:07:21 Kyle there. Airliner.

00:11:07:23 - 00:11:22:26 Kyle Not unicorn. And also, by the way, like a lot of people were accusing it of being old and fucked like nearly brand new. Like maybe like maybe six months of time and like a whip or two on a sport climb. Like, I don't fall on my ropes,

00:11:22:29 - 00:11:44:23 Bryce I might be fast forwarding here, but I do want to give credit to the double bunny ears because you had suggested the double bunny ears and you said I'm just theoretically it might absorb some of the shock versus just fixing directly to the bolt. And on our adult run, when the when the sheet, when he shot it, we were just double clove hitching the bolts.

00:11:44:23 - 00:11:52:24 Bryce And that's only because Kyle didn't know how to tie a double bunny.

00:11:52:26 - 00:12:18:27 Bryce So. But then on our actual go, I, you know, we had a rest. Well, almost rest day. The next day I taught him how to do the double bunny ears. And on his second lead rope solo fall, I definitely pulled up like I felt my body go up when he took the whip, so I that is true. Like, you're definitely going to take less force if you do the double bunny ears and you take that lead rope solo fall.

00:12:18:29 - 00:12:35:08 Kyle like concept would be a great thing for Ryan Jenks to test. Like how much of a disparity there is between falling on a fixed point belay versus falling on like a bunny ear between having load there too? Like I, I would bet it's a significant difference.

00:12:35:11 - 00:12:39:21 Bryce About like 30% reduction at least. Yeah.

00:12:39:23 - 00:13:01:20 Erik Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, just for the podcast folks listening, Kyle and I had talked prior to Kyle doing The Ascent and the way I fix on the short fix for everyone that doesn't know what short fixing is, I feel like maybe some people might not. Short fixing leader leads, stops at the anchor, pulls up the leftover rope because most of our pitches are like 130ft.

00:13:01:20 - 00:13:22:22 Erik So you usually have like an excess of rope, like 100ft of rope. Usually you pull up like 30, 40, 50ft, and then all the crazy pros and wild people out there will just fix the rope and just climb, which think, fucking God, you didn't do that because you would have gone forever. So that's called the PDL, aka the Pakistani def loop.

00:13:22:22 - 00:13:40:11 Erik Basically, you just you run a 50ft or 40ft or whatever, however much you pull up loop and you just if you fall, you fall times to that distance. So everyone's seen the video of Tommy taking that 100ft fall, you know, and it's like, yeah, if you're going to climb the nose an hour 50. Yeah, that makes sense for us.

00:13:40:17 - 00:14:02:28 Erik Recreational non pro athlete climbers that like walking at the end of our climbs you know don't have to do the PDL. So the option is you can use a Gregory a Revo which is what you guys were using a pinch any kind of assisted braking device, you flip it in a different orientation potentially. And then you can manage that 30, 40, 50ft through the device.

00:14:02:28 - 00:14:24:24 Erik And if you fall, the device will catch. So yeah, you fell on arrival, which if you're in the world of lead rope soloing, the Revo is known to be sheath the rope potentially and really hard fall factors. So fall factor two potentially which I don't know. Do you think it was a fall factor to roughly

00:14:24:26 - 00:14:30:01 Bryce Not quite. I mean, you you had a piece and you felt.

00:14:30:03 - 00:14:34:21 Bryce So it. Yeah.

00:14:34:24 - 00:14:44:08 Bryce He fell back to the anchor though. So like he ended up right back where he started.

00:14:44:11 - 00:14:58:07 Erik pretty close. And then Bryce was kind of pointing out for everyone in the audience of the difference between the clove hitching just the bolts, which that's what led to the, of the rope. And then something that I theoretically thought about and I had never really tested.

00:14:58:07 - 00:15:26:07 Erik It is instead of clove hitching each bolt which then isolates the like if there's two bolts, if you clove hitch this one, the jugar is on their own bolt. And then the lead rope soloist, which is the short fixing person, is on their own bolt. Right. But if you do a bunny ears, which kind of brings the knot down, you know, the joggers weight is counteracting the lead rope, soloist falls weight.

00:15:26:13 - 00:15:36:27 Erik And I actually said, that's funny, it's dude, I totally I've never experimented with it, but I was like, I bet you might actually get a little bit of

00:15:37:00 - 00:15:56:01 Bryce Yeah. It was like a it was like I gave him an actual catch, like an actual belay catch because he just pulled me up a little bit. So.

00:15:56:03 - 00:16:17:15 Bryce I mean, I went, I, I'm lighter than Kyle by a good amount, so I probably went until the knots, you know, until the bunny ears were totally tight going up like it was a significant pull up for sure.

00:16:17:17 - 00:16:32:09 Erik funny. I mean, my brain, like, I think that's something. And eventually, you know, obviously Kyle and I hopefully do that, you know, we'll do the interview and stuff. But something that's cool about having like guide background and like recreational background is like, guides are fucking nerds, you know what I mean?

00:16:32:10 - 00:16:47:07 Erik Because you kind of have to be like when someone's like, yeah, what? What's the cross loading thing on the carabiner? You're like, well, let me tell you, you know, it's like and it like, you kind of want to do that because it kind of wows the clients. And it's and it's also like a good you're a professional, you want to have that.

00:16:47:09 - 00:16:53:28 Erik But then when you're out doing scary, dangerous shit on your personal time, you're like, oh yeah, maybe this would like lift you

00:16:54:00 - 00:17:13:06 Kyle Well, yeah, I think I think the cool thing about knowledge like that is that you're able to conceptualize everything on such a bigger level where it's not you're not just memorizing skills. Right? Like, you conceptualize the dynamics of everything that's going on. And so you can walk into these different experiences and like apply knowledge from here to here and from here to here.

00:17:13:06 - 00:17:22:07 Kyle And you get to these exact things. We're like, I wonder if a bunny ear would absorb, you know, multiple ways, like knowledge is power, man. Yeah. Conceptualizing everything is sweet.

00:17:22:09 - 00:17:41:28 Erik Yeah, totally. And when you have that kind of bigger picture, I tell that a lot of clients and stuff too, just like having a bigger picture of all the systems. It kind of lets you improvise and innovate in like little ways, you know what I mean? And dude, that was that made a difference. It made a difference of sheathing the rope, which is insane, right?

00:17:41:29 - 00:17:47:13 Erik Like arguably, we don't know. It's hard to really actually quantify

00:17:47:16 - 00:17:49:18 Kyle Well, we also.

00:17:49:21 - 00:18:02:07 Kyle Definitely a huge factor. I mean I will say 9.1 non unicorn to a ten mil unicorn. Significant difference I think they're too. So yeah.

00:18:02:09 - 00:18:20:29 Erik Yeah. And the unicorn I mean, that's the whole thing, right? Is that for folks that don't know the unicorn is core and sheath, which if you don't know the difference between the two, you should know that if you're a rock climbing the sheath and the core are they're glued together basically in the weaving process.

00:18:21:01 - 00:18:48:19 Kyle In my defense to not having soloed or short fixed and on this on this topic of conceptualization, I felt comfortable approaching it because of my ability to conceptualize the system. Like after hearing it from you, after watching some videos online, like, I mean, like, it's not that complicated, you know, like once you understand kind of what you're doing, it's like, okay, I got it, you know, and the for my first don't run to sickle.

00:18:48:21 - 00:19:10:25 Kyle I got there in an hour and 15 minutes and like, you know, the the short fixed system worked and it was fine. Like I had zero issues. But I think it's like where once you get past that, once it's all the little things that start to catch up to you. Like for me, the big crux with leadership soloing was the freaking cash loop, getting like sticking my leg through it.

00:19:10:27 - 00:19:31:06 Kyle That's what made me fall to second time is I kicked my leg through the cash loop and then stood up, and then it cinched through my leg and I was like, I had a bad jam. And I realized my foot was stuck and I was like, fuck, I gotta get my foot out. And like during that process of trying to undo my foot, I slipped out.

00:19:31:09 - 00:19:46:25 Kyle And so like, yeah, it's just like those weird small things that you don't account for. But overall, I felt comfortable with the system I wasn't. We tested the Revo like we made sure we knew how to make it lock and like, okay, this this is going to work. Like in our minds, we're like, okay. Like we get it.

00:19:46:27 - 00:19:50:09 Kyle Like we're going to be safe if we fall. It's just, yeah.

00:19:50:10 - 00:19:51:03 Kyle I don't know.

00:19:51:05 - 00:20:19:12 Kyle A little crazy.

00:20:19:15 - 00:20:41:09 Kyle The one thing with the repo that I found that actually Bryce and I haven't really figured out how to get this through is specifically on, like, if you're short fixing the Lin Hill traverse and the Jardine Traverse and you're on a Revo, there's no way for you to tension and lower yourself to the next bolt, because if you tried to do that with a revolt,

00:20:41:12 - 00:20:47:14 Bryce You can. It's just like using a tube device. Like you have to hold the brake and it's not convenient.

00:20:47:17 - 00:21:01:16 Kyle reverse, like do that even worse. Yeah, exactly. And so I would be pretty I would be pretty uncomfortable trying to, like, lower myself out on a revo to a bolt.

00:21:01:19 - 00:21:21:28 Erik why I've gone to the Gregory for all of my lead rope soloing. So I have dude, I've got, I've got a silent partner, I've got a rival, I've got a Gregory, I've got all the little toys because I like playing with stuff and I like to see what optimizes. And you know, obviously you guys had Brant on here who's like the man for lead rope soloing.

00:21:22:01 - 00:21:46:03 Erik Gregory plus and it's like, yeah, it's hard. It's hard to beat that. Like, I can just pull this in and you know, and just sit back on my device and for yeah, big wall speed climbing. That's amazing. Because if you have to do a pendulum, lead rope soloing short fixing hard to do the Revo or a lot of those other style devices, even the silent partner and stuff, you know, that kind

00:21:46:06 - 00:22:09:13 Bryce Yeah. The other nice thing about a plus for your lead rope cell is that's just one less device you need, because we ended up bringing two Gregory's and a repo because of like for pitch five. You know, the pitch after sickle, you have to, like, belay your partner to you, and you can't really do that with the revolt.

00:22:09:14 - 00:22:18:29 Bryce So there's a few, a few, like only a handful of pitches, but it's like we had to bring two Gregory's and the Revo just for those couple situations. So.

00:22:19:02 - 00:22:26:06 Erik lot of ways, I think because you had a limited amount of lead rope, slow experience, I

00:22:26:08 - 00:22:42:29 Bryce I agreed.

00:22:43:01 - 00:23:04:27 Bryce No, that was me I originally had. I don't I haven't done much lead rope solo at all, and I had a plus that I had bought just for doing lead rope solo that I never really got around to using. But then prior to the nose I was like, I think the river's just going to feed so much easier and not have to flip it upside down and modify it and get a chest harness.

00:23:04:29 - 00:23:11:14 Bryce And so I ended up just grabbing the river and I think, yeah, like I said, it worked good for not having the beta.

00:23:11:17 - 00:23:22:29 Erik nose in a day versus my actual solo setup

00:23:23:01 - 00:23:33:10 Erik too, but now it's just a Gregory. Flip that upside down and then I have the cash loop running over the left side of the that little like breaking plate, and that works pretty well.

00:23:33:17 - 00:23:45:23 Erik But the rules, yeah, you have to have it oriented on the chest harness or it'll lock like Matt, you know, it'll shorten you. Yeah that's great. Good job guys. Just pulled that

00:23:45:26 - 00:23:57:15 Bryce I'm I'm definitely a gear nerd. So I'm, I love trying. I've, I've bought and tried almost everything and either I keep it or I don't. But yeah. Got to optimize.

00:23:57:17 - 00:24:00:05 Erik the same.

00:24:00:07 - 00:24:30:15 Kyle Let's be real for a second. The blueprint for a successful climbing podcast is simple. Interview the most famous climbers in the world. Big names mean big followings, lots of SEO power, and a built in audience that helps boost every episode. But this show, this show has never been about that. From the beginning, I have made it my mission to interview the climbing majority, the people who don't live in the limelight, people quietly putting up roots, building communities and giving back to us in ways that are hardly recognized.

00:24:30:17 - 00:24:46:01 Kyle Well, that's what makes this show special. It also means we have an uphill battle when it comes to growth, and that is where you come in. If you've been psyched on the show. Word of mouth is one of the single most important ways you can help. Support. Share an episode with a friend. Post about us on social media.

00:24:46:02 - 00:24:56:03 Kyle Jump onto Reddit threads and Mountain Project forums and tell people what you've been listening to. You are a part of the majority as well, and it's time to let people know about it.

00:24:56:05 - 00:25:06:29 Erik Okay. So okay. Let's go. So we're talking about gear. We're getting super nerdy. Let's go. Rack rope. What did you bring. What

00:25:07:01 - 00:25:16:18 Kyle Yeah. So actually, I, I had somebody that just texted me about my rack and I just just responded. So I have it fresh in my memory, so I'll

00:25:16:20 - 00:25:17:24 Bryce Yeah I got it to.

00:25:17:24 - 00:25:21:26 Kyle had 0.1.1 and a point two

00:25:21:28 - 00:25:28:04 Bryce Which I use I, we definitely used both of those a couple of times.

00:25:28:06 - 00:25:29:26 Kyle No point zero.

00:25:29:28 - 00:25:50:26 Bryce We then bring the zero. They know the great roof was super cleaned out. There was only like two fixed pieces, like one fixed piece in the roof and one on the the way up to it. So it was like very cleaned out compared to the other two times I've done it. So I was glad to have the point.

00:25:50:26 - 00:26:08:13 Bryce One for the great roof.

00:26:08:15 - 00:26:12:03 Bryce When it fits, it fits like it's money.

00:26:12:03 - 00:26:18:29 Erik Yes. Dude. Yeah. People don't like the .57 5% like it's too big for an offset. Dude, I love that

00:26:19:01 - 00:26:41:20 Kyle No, I like French Freed on that so much on the first. Yeah I found so many placements for it. Yeah. And then the other offset. Like if I were to rate the use cases of the asset cams. 0.750.575 number one. Probably like 0.3.4 number two.

00:26:41:22 - 00:26:43:14 Bryce Yeah. Agreed.

00:26:43:17 - 00:26:45:11 Kyle didn't use that much.

00:26:45:13 - 00:26:50:27 Kyle But I remember having it and like using it a couple of times. But yeah that .755 was really good.

00:26:51:00 - 00:27:12:16 Bryce And the three for the three for for sure. The the point. The .1.2. There's only a couple times I used it and when I did it was nice, but I probably could have got away without it. And then the .2.3 again. Nice. But you could probably do without it. But I would bring it again.

00:27:12:18 - 00:27:26:14 Erik yeah I think the places that are really nice for those offset cams are pitch to that weird flaring corner and then the glowering spot. I think those I think the glowering spot is the hardest aid on the on the route. That's

00:27:26:17 - 00:27:28:14 Kyle Bryce's lead

00:27:28:16 - 00:27:36:17 Bryce As far as hard aid, I don't think there was. I don't know if I would say there was any hard aid maybe.

00:27:36:19 - 00:27:45:00 Erik just a little. Kind of like a little more pin scarred than the rest. Like the rest of the roots. Very splitter. And I find that that's like the offset cams. You're like, oh yeah. That's

00:27:45:03 - 00:28:05:20 Bryce Yeah. We trying to think I'm just looking at the top. That's definitely the hardest pitch off of glowering spot like that one's just strenuous and long. And when that one's over, you're like, oh, thank God I'm at camp six. Even though you're looking up at changing corners and you know that that's a mega pitch to it's pretty straight.

00:28:05:20 - 00:28:16:08 Bryce It's pretty easy. Like changing corners is.

00:28:16:10 - 00:28:37:12 Bryce It wasn't I, I mean, what I did. So I just did the schnoz like I did the I skipped those two bolts on the right that would normally take you into changing corners. I went straight to the snores. There were super long slings like normal, so it was really easy to pull up through those. And then yeah, by the time you swing over into the corner, it's like Black Totem.

00:28:37:12 - 00:29:10:17 Bryce And then I just, I back cleaned everything. I kind of just rolled like a .75 and a number one on the left side as my pro. And then I just ate it up the corner and just kept bumping my single piece for pro until I got out of the corner and then just back cleaned everything so that the rope wouldn't be hanging over the corner, because Kyle kind of freaked out about that on our when we did it big wall style, because he was placing in the corner and it I mean that's a sharp edge.

00:29:10:20 - 00:29:13:05 Bryce So

00:29:13:08 - 00:29:58:27 Bryce definitely that's the beta for sure. Do the schnoz swing over that clean until you're out of the corner.

00:29:58:29 - 00:30:07:24 Bryce You still go into the corner though. Like you're still changing corners. It's just higher up.

00:30:07:27 - 00:30:31:26 Bryce I thought I thought I will say I thought the the worst gear or the hardest aid was pitched getting to the wild stance. Like when after you do the trough and then you're doing that arching, that arching crack. There's just there's just some it says C2 or 511 and there's some bad placements there for sure. And thank thankfully those offsets are money in that.

00:30:31:26 - 00:30:40:10 Bryce And then eventually you get some totem placements too. But yeah, I would say gear wise that was the the crux.

00:30:40:13 - 00:30:54:12 Erik Yep. That's a cool pitch I like that I, I'm always psyched when I get on that little section. And then you get on to the wild stance. But that yeah there's some real weird pin scars and you're like putting them in those little, those

00:30:54:15 - 00:31:18:25 Bryce Yeah. That pitch leading up to that though was like splitter threes for a long time. And it's sick. Yeah I remember being like oh I would definitely take a third .75 for this if I had it. Like that's the downside of that 5.75 is it wasn't quite as good there as the as another 0.75 would have been. But for that one pitch you can get by.

00:31:18:28 - 00:31:24:10 Erik yeah okay. We got off on the gear. So we had 0.1.2

00:31:24:13 - 00:31:38:13 Kyle double black totem all the way to one. And we split Z4 and totems. And then we brought doubles 2 to 4 and we bought triples and 0.41 and two.

00:31:38:16 - 00:31:39:23 Erik

00:31:39:25 - 00:31:51:24 Erik Okay. So okay so I usually bring triples point 5 to 1. And that would be that's the reason why because you're like oh I wish I had

00:31:51:27 - 00:32:00:11 Erik of like, oh wait you guys didn't bring us three seven, five. Yeah. Okay. And so how did the rack feel? So one more seven five might

00:32:00:14 - 00:32:03:20 Bryce Yeah, I could have brought it but was fine without it.

00:32:03:22 - 00:32:12:00 Kyle For me the extra point for was critical. I don't know why, but I, I reached down for that piece all the time

00:32:12:03 - 00:32:15:14 Bryce Tons of yellow totems.

00:32:15:17 - 00:32:27:00 Kyle The one and the two for me were specifically for the stove legs, because I whipped both times in the in the tight hand cracks. It's so greasy, man.

00:32:27:01 - 00:32:45:09 Kyle Like people are interested in hearing exactly why I fell. So I guess I'll just give like the the the specifics. So the first time I've short fixed off pitch eight and I got up about 25 30ft and I just had this weird feeling like I should probably place a piece of pro, you know, like I'm 25ft off the anchor.

00:32:45:12 - 00:33:02:28 Kyle I should probably put a piece in. That's another thing real quick is like, I think I for some reason I was sure fixing and I forgot the importance of placing gear off the anchor like I always, you know, clip a carabiner, protect factor two. Like that's always a part of my system. But short fixing for some reason I was like, conserve gear.

00:33:03:00 - 00:33:20:03 Kyle Conserve gear. Like you need this to get to dolt. And so I'm just like, you know, if I'm secure, I'm not going to place. If I feel insecure, I'll place. So I got like 25ft up off the off the anchor and I, I got I started feeling kind of insecure. So I put in a number one and think, God, I did because I felt like fucking 30s later.

00:33:20:06 - 00:33:39:02 Kyle But yeah, like I was basically I had my hand on a sloper. It was kind of like a side pull sloper. And I had my feet in and I was going from a hand jam to another hand jam. And as I was going through the motion to put my other hand jam, my right hand popped off. And then I just, like, fell backwards.

00:33:39:04 - 00:34:04:20 Kyle And then. Yeah, the second one we already talked about, I was trying to get my cash, my feet out of my cash loop, and that's why I fell, because I was just thrashing. But yeah. So like going back at those pitches after my fall on dolt the first time, I was like, I like, I need more gear. Like I felt run out even after getting back on the horse after the first fall and jumping into the stove legs, like those, those sections where you're just power lie, backing through those sections and like trying to find stances.

00:34:04:20 - 00:34:19:29 Kyle And the pod is like, really? Why? There's nowhere to get gear if you want it. Like you have to commit to like 20ft. That whole section was kind of spooky for me, and I was just like, look, I just we'll belay these out like normal, pitch them out, and I just want to feel protected with gear. And it was better.

00:34:19:29 - 00:34:27:18 Kyle I'd rather like, move efficiently with the gear that I need rather than like short fixing and being scared and getting frozen, right?

00:34:27:20 - 00:34:47:13 Erik Totally. Yeah. And that's the thing, right? I think, you know, like when I live in Yosemite, you know, it's such a, it's such a, you know, specific culture there, especially when you spend a lot of time there, you know, in the culture is like how many, you know, how hard you run it out, you know, like, what did you, Simon, like, did you untie and just like, let go of the rope and just say, fuck it.

00:34:47:14 - 00:35:08:06 Erik You know, you're just like, okay, calm down, guys. You know, like, and you know, like for us, it's like, dude, we're not pro athletes. And like, dude, I always this is what I always say now. Like getting up and walking myself to take a shit. Much more important than how badass of a rock climber him, you know what I mean?

00:35:08:07 - 00:35:20:26 Erik Like, you know, like, dude, if you fuck up and you can't walk to the bathroom after your climb like that sucks, you know? And it's like, yeah, yeah, you know, you hear the machismo, kind

00:35:20:28 - 00:35:24:19 Kyle No. Yeah.

00:35:24:21 - 00:35:43:01 Kyle We'll get back to talking in just one minute. First, there's something I need to be honest with you about after five years of producing this podcast. There's been a hard truth that I had to realize. It's been a terrible business decision in person. Interviews with professional video and audio quality take a lot of money to produce, and they give back very little.

00:35:43:02 - 00:36:12:25 Kyle For instance, my trip to Washington to interview Noah Kane, Ryan Jenks and Stephen Dimmitt in person literally cost me thousands of dollars out of pocket. Even other big creators in this space have questioned my entire approach, but I'm unwilling to sacrifice the quality that I want to bring to this show. So if you value the production level just as much as I do, value the depth of the conversations that we have on this show, or just have had an episode that's really stuck with you, there is a real way you can help become a Patreon member.

00:36:12:26 - 00:36:24:00 Kyle You'll help offset the real costs that it takes to produce this show. You'll unlock the ad free version of every episode and get access to exclusive content. If any of this resonates with you. Click the link in the show notes,

00:36:24:00 - 00:36:27:18 Kyle Thanks for listening. And now back to the show.

00:36:27:21 - 00:36:32:27 Kyle So yeah, actually, this breaks up a really good question that I wanted to ask. So

00:36:32:29 - 00:36:52:27 Kyle if let's say you've got everything dialed and you're super efficient, but you take minimal risk, what is the fastest time do you think you could achieve? And at what point, time wise, does risk become the only lever you can pull to to shorten your time?

00:36:52:29 - 00:37:16:09 Erik Dude. I think at least eight I think at least eight hours because my time, my fastest time right now is ten and a half. When I did that ten and a half ascent with my buddy James, we didn't change a single system. He's been like my Naiad partner for a lot of my stuff. And, you know, our times have just gone down and we got held up quite a bit behind people.

00:37:16:09 - 00:37:36:01 Erik We were on track for a nine hour ascent. And dude, I think we could have even gone faster. And we still carry a triple rack. We still carry the offset cams, we still short fix with an upset angry. It's like none of our systems change. It's just being super intimate and familiar and, like, good at rock climbing.

00:37:36:02 - 00:37:59:16 Erik Like just moving quickly. Like feeling good. Like, yeah, maybe spacing stuff out a little more, right? How much does that extra fall, you know, at risk? It all depends. I mean, we watch Tommy go for 100ft, so it's, you know, it depends on where you're at on the route. I think I've always said that. I think that at least eight hours, if not even like, I don't know, 6 or 7 and like, you know, obviously, like if you look back and like

00:37:59:19 - 00:38:19:14 Erik history nerd. And you know, I when I lived in Yosemite, I lived at Hans house. Hans fluorine, you know, so I'm speed legend, you know. And I love the scene of masters of stone climbing onto the boot. And he places, places seven, five, you know, like, right when he gets onto the boot, you know, and yeah, some of that is, like, very cultural, right?

00:38:19:15 - 00:38:39:20 Erik Like, I kind of I was kind of alluding to that, like the Yosemite culture. Right. It's like, you know, no, no, no, you know, which is cool. I love that it's awesome. And I think it's it's the staging ground for a lot of the North American progression of climbing. You know, the United States for sure is in Yosemite en el cap center stage.

00:38:39:22 - 00:38:55:03 Erik But yeah, it's like I think a lot of times we get lost in the sauce a little bit with like how we look at these achievements versus risk. Yeah. And I think like with Tommy and Alex, like you're gonna if you want to do it in our and 50 minutes, you got to pull some risk levers. You know what I mean.

00:38:55:03 - 00:39:09:06 Erik You have to I and I get that I see that, you know, but I think, like, you know, your average, like 8 to 15 hours, like, you don't need to do shit. You could bring a quad rack in, like lead rope solo with a greedy upside down and be fine.

00:39:09:06 - 00:39:38:04 Bryce say there's a lot of things now having done it once of just thinking about little tiny optimizations like, oh, pancake flake, I didn't pull up enough rope to get to the pedestal like that. Could I, you know, it just. Yeah, it's like little tiny things like that. You're like, oh, I accidentally pulled up 25ft when I could have pulled up 50 or, you know, just little tiny techniques.

00:39:38:04 - 00:39:56:11 Bryce I know Kyle and I for sure could get our time down significantly. And I think the other thing is just conditioning is in shape. Like, we wouldn't have to take any more risk. But if I was in better shape, I would have been moving way faster on the top half and not taking in on my Daisy nearly as often.

00:39:56:11 - 00:40:07:24 Bryce But at that point I was like, I'm tired and I'm just trying to get to the top, so I'm going to pull in on my Daisy. But if you were in better shape with zero extra risk, you could cut off a lot of time there for sure.

00:40:07:27 - 00:40:37:23 Erik Yeah yeah. Intimacy with the root conditioning being strong. Being fit. You know being valley fit. You know I mean you hear a lot of folks that have lived in the Valley and that they say that valley fit. And I know what that means. Like, you know, not just like rock climbing, like, can you go hike the Falls Trail and, you know, and come down and then, you know, have a have a beer and then go do something, you know, it's like that kind of like it's hard to find areas where there's that much elevation relief, rock climbing or hiking or just in general.

00:40:37:23 - 00:41:00:23 Erik And yeah, if you can just be like, you know, you're climbing in the valley all the time, you're doing dolt runs, you're doing astro man, you're doing rostrum laps, and you're just like, you're just locked in and tuned in physically and mentally. Like there is an aspect of that place where, you know, when I lived there, I would drive into the valley every single day and you're just like, you drive in and you're like, oh, hey, hello, Hellcat, you know?

00:41:00:24 - 00:41:04:08 Erik And then when you drive, whatever, you know how I

00:41:04:10 - 00:41:07:10 Kyle Seven hours. It's like seven hours.

00:41:07:13 - 00:41:18:01 Erik okay. Not as not as far as I thought. Seven hours, but still drive seven hours. You drive in and then you're just like, oh, shit, that's really big. You know, like you haven't seen it in a while.

00:41:18:02 - 00:41:22:04 Erik You know, you like, drive in, you like, look out and you're like in the windshield, like,

00:41:22:07 - 00:41:44:14 Kyle I think it's funny actually. You mentioned like oh it looks big, it looks big. I think that since my last time I the nose, it just shrunk actually, like from the first time I looked at it, like I would look up and be like, man, the great roof is right there. And like, you can see, like when you can see the path from the ground to the top and you've been on it regardless of how fast you've been on it.

00:41:44:14 - 00:41:54:23 Kyle For me, at least, it shrinks it because you're just like, oh, it's just like there to there. And then they're there and they're there, and then you're at the top. You're like, oh, wow, it's not even that big. It's.

00:41:54:26 - 00:42:11:02 Kyle Yeah.

00:42:11:04 - 00:42:28:16 Kyle I used to do a lot of running before my, my actual accident. My climbing accident. Now running this, it's kind of tough, but I mean, I do big days in the mountains, like, I'm trying to do the Red Rock triple out here. Like I'd say that's like my focus is I love huge days in the mountains, like Bryce and I did Half Dome, car two, car 22 hours.

00:42:28:18 - 00:42:34:15 Bryce 20.

00:42:34:17 - 00:42:39:29 Bryce Come on man.

00:42:40:01 - 00:42:48:04 Bryce That was Kyle's first big wall by the way. We did a 12 hour ascent of Half Dome for his first wall ever.

00:42:48:06 - 00:43:08:12 Kyle I think the biggest crux I mean probably for Bryce two and Bryce probably add on this is just like switching gears mentally. Right. It's like you're you're at home, you know, your Bryce. You have a family with kids. You know, got work. I've got this channel of the podcast like all these these obligations that I've willingly signed myself up for.

00:43:08:12 - 00:43:29:15 Kyle And then to on top of rock climbing and training and trying to, like, stay up as an athlete. And then you just got to like, you know, like 9 p.m. on Wednesday. You're just like pulling the plug from everything, just like as everything's trying to grab it to, you know, to get you to come back and then you just, like, somehow escape the city and you're driving to your 70.

00:43:29:15 - 00:43:39:08 Kyle And it was like, oh my God, I fucking made it out of the city. And then all of a sudden you're

00:43:39:10 - 00:43:46:22 Kyle is just like, how do I shift gears out of my normal life with relationships and, and the work?

00:43:46:22 - 00:43:55:17 Kyle And how do I then commit myself to this objective that takes so much mental fortitude and focus? Like, how am I supposed to make that shift gracefully?

00:43:55:20 - 00:44:15:04 Bryce Which which I will say, I think that was one of the clutch things that we did was that we had we get yourself three days to climb. We did adult run the first day just to kind of gauge our speed and see how things were going to go. And even though Kyle took that lead rope solo fall and we were arguably both a little shook after that, I was even shook as the Blair.

00:44:15:04 - 00:44:32:06 Bryce I've never seen a rope sheath in front of me. And that was like, what are we doing here? Like, like I just want to go down. You know, that was kind of the vibe until Kyle shook it off and kept leading. And anyways, the second day all we did was a cycle run and I led it instead of Kyle.

00:44:32:06 - 00:44:58:23 Bryce So we kind of switched spots just so that I could familiarize with lead rope solo. Kyle could make sure he could use the stirrups, etc. and I think having the day and then a big rest. But just like decompressing while still like being familiar with being in the valley and climbing like really set us up. I think after that circle around the second day was when we were both just like, yes, like we are going to do Nia tomorrow.

00:44:58:25 - 00:45:09:15 Bryce We do have this, like we have a better system now, a better rope, blah, blah, blah. And you were able we were actually able to just like be locked in for that third day. So

00:45:09:20 - 00:45:29:28 Bryce if we had just showed up in the Valley for a run, like on the first day, I don't think it would have gone as well.

00:45:30:00 - 00:45:34:00 Bryce 12 hours of just sitting around.

00:45:34:03 - 00:45:41:18 Kyle Thursday, Friday, the 48 hours we were in the valley, it was just like every minute was spent planning for Saturday.

00:45:41:20 - 00:45:50:22 Kyle Like there was so like by the time we did it, we were all in my mind. I had already gone through so much of the climb that it felt so second nature by the time I was actually on.

00:45:50:22 - 00:45:51:07 Kyle The wall.

00:45:51:14 - 00:46:13:15 Erik Yeah, yeah I mean that's what it takes a lot of this stuff too. It's so much obviously there's a physicality, there's this technical, there's the technicality, there's the systems. But so much of it is just like mental preparation of just like, okay, this is like I can envision and then while you're doing, you're not having to like take up that mental bandwidth of going, wait, what do we do here?

00:46:13:20 - 00:46:30:00 Erik You know, like do we owe do I threw this or like, do I, do you know, do we swing here I can't, you know. Yeah exactly. Just mental preparation of like visualization. You know what I mean? I think there's a lot of climbers that talk about that where, you know, high end

00:46:30:02 - 00:46:34:00 Kyle Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

00:46:34:02 - 00:46:43:20 Kyle You know, the weird, the weird caveat or, I don't know, the dark side to this visualization. Did you listen to Tanner warnings episode of

00:46:43:22 - 00:47:12:28 Kyle he talks about the visualization of falling to your death so that your numb to it, so that when you put yourself in no fall zones, you're not overcome by the what. If you've like, what would it be like if I fell to my death like you already have died in your head so many times that you you're numb and you don't get like you don't get that sensory overload when you when you need the focus the most.

00:47:13:00 - 00:47:23:05 Kyle And I was just like, fuck, that's a whole a whole nother level of visualization right there. That's like super shit. Yeah, yeah.

00:47:23:08 - 00:47:35:13 Erik it's it totally makes all the sense in the world because. Yeah, I mean, that's what that's what a lot of those guys had have to do as special forces units. And then you come into climbing. Yeah for sure, because that's it. Right. You can't you have to be aware of the risk.

00:47:35:14 - 00:47:44:06 Erik You have to accept the risk. And then you can't be overcome by the fear, you know, because if you are you, you hesitate, you know, you you know, you

00:47:44:08 - 00:48:06:12 Bryce I would just say, thankfully, there's not really any situations on the nose where you need to be visualizing your death. It's a pretty cat. It's a pretty casual route by most standards, I think, other than just being big and it technically there's a lot of, you know, technical pieces to it, but risk wise it's pretty straightforward.

00:48:06:15 - 00:48:22:27 Kyle Quick favor. If you've been enjoying the show, please head on over to Apple Podcasts to leave us a review. Not an Apple listener? You can leave a review on the show's website. Reviews help more than you'd know, and they take less time than it takes for your partner to put you on belay. So what are you waiting for?

00:48:22:29 - 00:48:26:07 Kyle Go on, start typing.

00:48:26:09 - 00:48:52:11 Erik Yeah. Okay. So I have a question in here for you guys, which is when did you feel the most at risk. When was the scariest moments which we already know. I mean, the thing of the rope, that's fucking insane. But. And then I think, like, what? What do you think does does climbing speed climbing Nyad style routes?

00:48:52:13 - 00:48:56:04 Erik Does it is it more dangerous

00:48:56:07 - 00:48:57:07 Kyle Lead with this

00:48:57:10 - 00:49:20:28 Bryce Yeah. I mean, obviously the sheath was like the the moment of like is I should I be here, should I be doing this. What are we doing. Like, do I want to go home tomorrow. You know, but on our actual Nyad, I would say there was no I never once felt like, oh, my gosh, I'm. This could go wrong.

00:49:20:28 - 00:49:37:18 Bryce It was always just I mean, there's a, you know, every once in a while, you're jogging and the ropes over like an edge or something, and you're like, what if my what if my rope just cut here or you know, you have like a snap thought in your head of like, wow, I'm like, hanging out over this. I would just die if I fell.

00:49:37:19 - 00:50:11:06 Bryce But you're like, no, this is the same system I've done all my climbing life. And also on the nose, like I'm doing the same thing every pitch. I trust my partner. He fixed me. I'm on Tujue, Mars and a micro tracks. I'm good. Like, unless my rope seriously cuts for some crazy reason, like, you know. So the only the only scare I think we had was like, right after, like, Eagle Ledge or somewhere in there, maybe right after Lin Hill Traverse, I was pulling up the just the free hanging rope and it actually got stuck on something I don't.

00:50:11:07 - 00:50:29:21 Bryce It was like down in that 11 C corner or somewhere down there below Eagle and I, you know, I had it on the micro tracks and I was pulling some of the slack and it just got tight. And Kyle, maybe you were on yard because I was like, oh shoot. And Kyle goes, what? And or yeah, Lynn Hill.

00:50:29:22 - 00:50:49:04 Bryce And he's like, what dude? And I freaked him out because I, I was like, oh shoot. But it was just because the rope got tight for a second and then I like had the yard it through the micro tracks and it popped out. But I think that was the only moment of actual like concern. Other than that, it was super just straightforward, systematic.

00:50:49:04 - 00:51:03:02 Bryce And yeah, I don't know. Kyle's. Do you have any situations where you were I mean, I think you had a few, like, scary ly backs that you weren't looking forward to.

00:51:03:04 - 00:51:28:26 Kyle I don't know, like I feel like I have a little bit of Alex syndrome. Like I have a pretty, like disconnect between like fear and danger. It takes a lot for me to freak out. And, yeah, the stove legs happened. And like, I looked up and the wrath was like it was deceased. And I was kind of just in shock.

00:51:28:26 - 00:51:35:28 Kyle But at the same time, I knew I was safe, right? Like the fall had fallen like the the rope caught me like

00:51:36:00 - 00:51:38:14 Bryce The core was intact.

00:51:38:17 - 00:51:45:15 Kyle were afraid. And so I was just kind of like, all right, let me pull out the camera like, Holy shit. This is crazy.

00:51:45:17 - 00:52:07:26 Kyle And then but, I mean, I will say, like, gathering my head after that and moving past. It was definitely a crux. Like getting back on lead and like, getting through that section because it was the first time I. It was basically on site for me. Like I had never actually free climbed adult before. And so, you know, people talk about the stove legs and they're like, yeah, that's splitter glory, you know, like everyone celebrates the stove legs.

00:52:07:26 - 00:52:32:27 Kyle And so I'm like approaching this, these pitches with like this lachrymose, not lachrymose, this like nonchalant attitude. And I'm like, this is fucking hard. Like tight hands. Like you maybe get 80ft of splitter number twos and pitch seven, but eight pitch eight is like tight hands. You get to a pod power blowback for 40ft, you know, then you rest and you get some shitty gear and then power lie back again and it's just like, okay, fuck.

00:52:32:28 - 00:52:39:01 Kyle Like, I didn't realize this was on the the menu for me today.

00:52:39:04 - 00:52:49:21 Erik if you if you've seen that video of Brad coming up after climbing the stove legs, he literally, you know, as he

00:52:49:24 - 00:53:01:14 Erik He's like fucking stove. Legs are hard. And it's like, that's dude, you know, BG's saying it. It's like, yup, totally there puppy. They're hard. You know, they're they're they're very straightforward climbing.

00:53:01:14 - 00:53:02:19 Erik They're very splitter but

00:53:02:21 - 00:53:03:05 Kyle Yeah.

00:53:03:08 - 00:53:05:22 Kyle Slick.

00:53:05:24 - 00:53:07:17 Bryce Pretty steep. Yeah.

00:53:07:19 - 00:53:22:20 Erik yeah, pretty steep. And you know and they get kind of in between sizes. Like I think you said that that one section, gets a little tight. I kind of have narrow hands. Like number ones are decent for me. Number two is are good for me to ones and twos are pretty good for me.

00:53:22:24 - 00:53:27:26 Erik But then it goes to threes and I'm like you know and with a four is our

00:53:27:28 - 00:53:28:03 Kyle Yeah.

00:53:28:03 - 00:53:28:15 Kyle It's crazy.

00:53:28:15 - 00:53:31:29 Kyle So I can, I can cup a four.

00:53:32:02 - 00:53:41:29 Kyle I can cup a for like a three is pretty good. A number two is like perfect. And number one I have to be like really technical and delicate with.

00:53:42:01 - 00:53:43:15 Erik Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

00:53:43:17 - 00:53:47:01 Erik Number four I am full fully full fist.

00:53:47:08 - 00:53:49:00 Bryce So. So.

00:53:49:03 - 00:53:49:26 Erik I mean

00:53:49:28 - 00:54:10:12 Erik Yeah, right. You got Brad choking on water, getting to the top. It's so hard, you know? And then Tommy fucking hundred foot whipper, you know. So you have, dude, you have all of the like, you're like, yeah, it's, you know, anyone that's like, oh yeah, that's easy. It's like, yeah, well TK fucking pitched. And Brad is like

00:54:10:14 - 00:54:16:04 Kyle Yeah

00:54:16:06 - 00:54:31:11 Kyle It's like when I'm forced to run out on terrain where I'm like kind of uneasy on. That's where I get uncomfortable. And that was the issue with those live backs. It's like it's not you could you can't just like commit to the lie back and be like, okay, if I want gear whenever I want, I can just I can just stop and place gear.

00:54:31:11 - 00:54:56:25 Kyle It's like, no, you have to get to a certain spot. And I mean, it is slick, like you have to be like, there's definitely a US 70 style where you have to, like, be super specific with, like how you're gripping the rock and you got to like, do the tiny little micro adjustments to make sure that your hand isn't going to just, like, come off as you move through it, because it's definitely a real possibility.

00:54:56:25 - 00:55:16:17 Kyle And so I think that, like that whole uncertainty and just like the commitment level of having to move past the gear on the stove legs was the mental crux for me. But after I got to dolt, other than my small mishap, just because I didn't know what the hell I was doing on the on the dirty and traverse, everything else went pretty smoothly.

00:55:16:19 - 00:55:26:20 Erik That's great. That's awesome. Yeah, I feel like I feel like like, you know, we've kind of dissected that a little bit with the Naiad and the culture behind it and stuff is like it can be done really safely. I think

00:55:26:20 - 00:55:47:01 Erik I've had some kind of near misses on my speed of sense, like just being tired. And, you know, I kind of told you, Kyle in one of our in that chat, but like getting up to the pitch before camp six and me standing on that little ledge, my buddy dug it up to me, and you go and you're not

00:55:47:03 - 00:55:48:06 Bryce Yeah.

00:55:48:09 - 00:55:58:21 Erik whoopsie. You know, and just keeping track of that. So have you guys didn't have any of those things? I mean that's awesome. And like I mean that's a testament to the the preparation that you guys

00:55:58:24 - 00:56:04:26 Erik two lack of lead roles of preparation. But you know, like that's a testament to your guys's ability and skills.

00:56:04:26 - 00:56:09:06 Erik And and technical ability is like

00:56:09:09 - 00:56:27:06 Kyle I would say the one thing that was like, I wouldn't say it was a near miss, but it was something that like I could see go wrong really easily. And this is something that you kind of already put in my brain ahead of time, which was really nice, which was getting to the belay, going in direct and then taking the bunny ears off before you put them on belay.

00:56:27:10 - 00:56:40:22 Kyle I think that that was like a really easy thing to fuck up, because you're just like, I need to get you on belay and you're like, all this shit is in my way on the anchor. Let me just undo this real quick, and then I'll put you on belay. Like that, I think is a big risk. And it's like, make sure you don't do that.

00:56:40:22 - 00:56:56:18 Kyle And I think one one thing that Bryce and I talked about that we felt was beneficial to, to timing was we like so we sat in the back of we were like, okay, how many feet of short fixing do we need? Like how far do we really think we're going to get? And we both like, all right, probably 50 to 60ft.

00:56:56:18 - 00:57:04:09 Kyle That's probably what we need. And so we had a 60ft tagline. And so we measured the lead rope. Like how

00:57:04:12 - 00:57:16:04 Bryce We measured the tagline. We sat there and just figured how many arm lengths of tagline it was, and then we would just do that many arm lengths of lead line. But.

00:57:16:07 - 00:57:31:23 Kyle short fixing, so that we almost guaranteed by the time the follower got to the anchor, there was enough slack in the system, in the short fix system where you could immediately just grab the slack, put them on belay, and then undo the bunny ears instead of like, I'm out of rope.

00:57:31:24 - 00:57:41:12 Kyle Like we got to lower it down or whatever. Like, just make sure that you kind of orchestrate slack into the lead rope system so that you can just put them on

00:57:41:14 - 00:57:57:15 Bryce Yeah, that's that's why I that's why I ran out of rope on pancakes Lake was because I was thinking you needed extra rope to lower out because I back cleaned the whole roof. So you were going to do the big pendulum. So that's the only reason why I didn't pull up the full length there and kind of hosed myself.

00:57:57:21 - 00:58:28:00 Bryce But going back to like the not taking like not making mistakes, I think that's where like instead of having the mentality of like, I got to go fast, I got to go fast. You just take your time. Every single time you're putting on that revote, you make sure that, okay, I'm going down my ropes, going down to the anchor like I'm, you know, if I'm taking my partner and I'm putting him on a belay, like, don't take the bunny ears off, or if I'm doing a transition, he's about to put me on belay, make sure I'm clipped into two pieces.

00:58:28:01 - 00:58:44:03 Bryce Like, it's like if you're racing through it in your mind, you might make some of those mistakes, but I feel like that's where it was more just methodical and like, we just took our time and still had a decent time.

00:58:44:06 - 00:58:44:19 Erik yep.

00:58:44:20 - 00:59:05:00 Erik Yeah I mean that's that's it. Right. I mean there's so many quotes of, you know, slow and steady kind of thing and that, that is the essence of that style of climbing, even when you're trying to do it super duper fast. You know, I'm trying to think of the Hans quote that he would always say,

00:59:05:02 - 00:59:13:03 Bryce Like slow is fast or like, say, slow as fast and as safe or something like that.

00:59:13:05 - 00:59:13:14 Kyle

00:59:13:16 - 00:59:30:13 Kyle I have a question. I asked Bryce this. So the only lower out. So Bryce took the ride for all the, all the all the swings.

00:59:30:16 - 00:59:37:11 Bryce I know going off dull is probably the biggest one for sure.

00:59:37:13 - 00:59:41:00 Bryce Yeah, going off dull is.

00:59:41:03 - 00:59:57:25 Bryce I down. You know, I down climbed a bit as much as I could and then I was like, okay, here's the end. And then yeah I took that one.

00:59:57:28 - 01:00:38:10 Bryce Yeah.

01:00:38:12 - 01:00:45:17 Bryce Which is what you did.

01:00:45:19 - 01:01:10:22 Bryce I, I had said not to do that. I said there was not enough friction just to slow. I didn't think it would add enough friction.

01:01:10:24 - 01:01:48:25 Bryce Eric, what about the what about for the follower leaving the belay after Lynn Hill traverse? Do you lower out for that or do you down climb that? So the last pitch getting to camp for so after.

01:01:48:28 - 01:01:59:24 Bryce Yeah.

01:01:59:27 - 01:02:08:05 Bryce Yeah I didn't short fix that either.

01:02:08:07 - 01:02:59:18 Bryce You're almost there. It's. Yeah.

01:02:59:21 - 01:03:16:13 Bryce Yeah. But so then the next anchor after Lynn Hill, do you just do you lower out of that or do you just down climb there.

01:03:16:16 - 01:03:29:11 Bryce Okay.

01:03:29:13 - 01:03:38:15 Bryce Yeah.

01:03:38:17 - 01:05:01:11 Bryce Yeah yeah.

01:05:01:13 - 01:05:20:02 Bryce Yeah yeah.

01:05:20:05 - 01:05:51:23 Bryce A Kyle was smoked at that point.

01:05:51:25 - 01:06:26:05 Bryce Yeah. Hundred percent.

01:06:26:07 - 01:06:52:05 Bryce Yeah. That top the top two bicep is just cooked.

01:06:52:07 - 01:07:44:11 Kyle Did you know that Spotify and Apple podcast ratings helped the show reach more viewers? So if you like the show. Take 10s to leave the show five stars. If you're on YouTube. Be sure to hit the like button and subscribe to make sure you get notified about the most recent episodes. And now back to the show.

01:07:44:14 - 01:08:09:22 Bryce Now so. Yeah. Well it was a goal. It was a you know. So I did the nose the first time like four years ago I believe it was four years ago. And no I had a different.

01:08:09:25 - 01:08:26:05 Bryce I had a partner who him and I had just got into. We were just climbing together. We were pretty equally matched. And he was he was just starting to get into big walling. And I was like, okay, cool. I could like get into that too. And so he had done a couple of walls and then he and I did West Face of Leaning Tower.

01:08:26:05 - 01:08:41:17 Bryce And after doing that, I was we were still in the Valley and I like, walked to the base of the nose and I was like, I'm ready, let's go. Like right now. It was like the same day we got off Leaning Tower. I was just stoked and ready to get back on the nose, and my partner was like, I need a mental break.

01:08:41:18 - 01:09:01:13 Bryce Like, I don't want to get back on a wall like so. The long story short, he ended up dropping out a climbing completely. We had plans to do the nose and he just, like canceled on it and like stop climbing. And so I ended up recruiting a different partner, one of my other main partners, the following year. This is like 2022 or 23, I forget.

01:09:01:13 - 01:09:18:01 Bryce But, I got I got him all trained up and got the system, we got our systems down and we did a three, you know, three and a half day ascent of The nose. And, and we had our own issues, hiccups on that, but ended up I ended up leading like most of it. But we got to the top.

01:09:18:01 - 01:09:38:18 Bryce We did it. It was success. And then I immediately knew, like, I got to go do Naiad. Like that's just the next logical step. And ever since then it was just like, that's my lifetime climbing goal. Like, I'll be happy, you know, I got a few other, like, free climbing goals, but Naiad is like what I want to do, so I was totally stoked on it.

01:09:38:20 - 01:10:01:29 Bryce I tried, you know, I, Kyle and I became like, pretty consistent climbing partners around that time is when we started, you know, free climbing all the time together. And so we had like two years plus of just really consistent climbing, mostly on red rocks and whatnot, but some other places as well. And then I kind of just planted the seed like, hey, like, you know, we should we should try to do Naiad.

01:10:01:29 - 01:10:21:28 Bryce You should get into eating. I think we did that route right next to levitation in Red Rock that has like a one pitch of aid. What is that? Yeah. Eagle dance. And I got Kyle out there doing some, like, stepping and slings and stuff and doing a boat ladder for the first time. And it was like he was, you know, Kyle got his systems pretty quick.

01:10:21:28 - 01:10:47:17 Bryce So, anyways, so yeah, then I just like, planted that seed and I was like, let's do Naiad. And we ended up doing Half Dome in a day the next year. And that was like his first actual wall and that went super smooth. And so then we're like, yeah, let's do Naiad next year. But I was just a little concerned about on sighting Naiad for Kyle, like I had done the nose big wall style.

01:10:47:17 - 01:11:06:21 Bryce And I had also done a L cap tower run in a day with my buddy Christian. So I had done, you know, up to L Cap Tower in a day. So I kind of knew like a little bit of what to expect, but I just didn't feel like on sighting, it was the best call. So I talked Kyle into doing it big wall style.

01:11:06:23 - 01:11:32:22 Bryce And so in May, him and I went and did it over three days. Just normal big wall as prep and you know, learning the route a little bit. And then we plan to come back in the fall and do the Naiad. So it was mostly mostly me wanting to achieve my what I was really stoked on. And Kyle, being the rad partner that he is, was was willing to jump in and learn and do it.

01:11:32:22 - 01:13:02:19 Bryce So.

01:13:02:21 - 01:14:12:19 Bryce Yep.

01:14:12:21 - 01:14:30:17 Bryce Kyle I will. Just a quick backstory for your reference, Eric, when when I first got into climbing, Kyle and I knew each other before we were in, either of us were into climbing. We were like worked in restaurants way back in the day and were into like rave, the rave scene. And we were in a very different life together.

01:14:30:20 - 01:14:49:04 Bryce But then we both went our separate ways and cleaned ourselves up a little bit. But, he I, I think I started climbing a few years after him and he saw me on Instagram, like climb. And he's like, oh, hey, dude, I didn't know you climb like, come out here in Red Rock. And I remember at the time, like he's like, yeah, pick your pick your climbs.

01:14:49:04 - 01:15:09:29 Bryce Like, what do you want to do? And like, epinephrine would have been like this mega goal of mine at the time. And he's like, how's your chimney game? You know, like kind of kind of doubting whether it was a good idea, which it probably wasn't. But he, you know, let took me up some, some good 510 cracks and, and then yeah, I just kind of developed over time from that.

01:15:09:29 - 01:15:31:21 Bryce And I remember at the time he was climbing with this other guy who was like his main, consistent partner. And he and Hannah, his girlfriend at the time, were still together, but girlfriend at the time were the three of them were. Sorry, we're always climbing together. And I remember telling my wife like, oh, I wish I had a partner like that.

01:15:31:21 - 01:15:56:17 Bryce That was just so consistent and like, he and I could go crush everything and and then like, fast forward a few years and Kyle and I have just been crushing everything. Like, I mean, we're still mediocre climbers by most standards, but yeah, we've done a lot, so it's pretty awesome.

01:15:56:20 - 01:15:58:04 Bryce Thanks.

01:15:58:07 - 01:16:38:01 Bryce Yeah.

01:16:38:03 - 01:16:44:03 Bryce So.

01:16:44:06 - 01:16:54:24 Bryce So good. Yeah.

01:16:54:26 - 01:17:08:00 Bryce Olive oil.

01:17:08:02 - 01:17:30:09 Bryce That's great. Yeah. My goals I yeah I mean Naiad was really like like I didn't have too much beyond that. I got a three and a four year old. So even getting Nia done was really impressive in my mind of like, you know, I thought like I had to put it on the back burner because it's like, oh yeah, you're going to have to spend all this time in the valley and be training all the time.

01:17:30:09 - 01:17:53:14 Bryce And it just kind of seemed out of reach. But then Kyle and I just kind of kept pushing forward with the plan and went for it. So yeah, just getting that done was really cool. I actually just moved out to Idaho this year. I used to live in SoCal, so my climbing game is definitely a lot different now and you know, takes a little bit longer to get to crags and don't have the same partners.

01:17:53:14 - 01:18:19:04 Bryce So yeah, I don't really have too much lined up. Kyle. And I've been wanting to go do Moonlight Buttress for a while, so hopefully, hopefully in the spring or something we can go do that. We're talking about doing some other stuff out in Utah. Tatooine looks really sick out there by Zion, so nothing huge, just trying to stick with it.

01:18:19:06 - 01:18:45:19 Bryce It's crazy how when you go from climbing every weekend or every other weekend and you're just locked in and then you switch to, like once a month or once every other month, you're like, wow, trad climbing is hard and five nine actually feels fun now. You know, like it's like you're it's meant so mental. And when you when you only climb like outdoors once every other month, it's it's tough to just lock in.

01:18:45:19 - 01:18:49:23 Bryce So.

01:18:49:26 - 01:19:06:17 Erik always think of that. I mean, specially, you know, because, like, I just, I don't know, I said this today, but I think it's probably close. It's like between guiding and recreating, you know, because that's all I do as a climber. It's like I spend like, I don't know, like 200 days a year climbing outdoor rock or something, like it's a lot, you know?

01:19:06:18 - 01:19:16:13 Erik And then when I meet folks like you, you know, where you're like, got the family driving to the, you know, driving to the cliff once, you know, it's like that's that's hard.

01:19:16:16 - 01:19:28:12 Bryce Yeah.

01:19:28:15 - 01:19:32:14 Bryce Yeah. Feels good. I think we, I think we covered it.