The Builders Are Stuck in Admin Work, & It Is Killing Construction Productivity with Jennifer Hohman

0:00 [SPEAKER_00]: On this week's show, IT Reality and Construction, with Jennifer Homan from Baker Construction. [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, right, Jen, we got you on the microphone. [SPEAKER_00]: Finally. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be honest. [SPEAKER_00]: I've been chasing you since Florida. [SPEAKER_00]: We met in Florida.

0:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I watched you speak in Florida at an ABC event. [SPEAKER_00]: And I've been chasing me ever since. [SPEAKER_00]: So great to get you on the microphone today. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me not new to the podcast world. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's always fun for us. [SPEAKER_01]: I co-host a podcast called The Balance Voice.

0:36 [SPEAKER_01]: It focuses on public safety and crime here in Houston, Texas, and it's an amazing nonprofit organization. [SPEAKER_01]: We talk about all different kinds of topics, autism, and anti-sex trafficking. [SPEAKER_01]: All kinds of things. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, find us there too. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you can find her there, and she's bigger than we are.

0:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's always fun when we got a bigger show, somebody with a bigger show than us, and I gave it some listen. [SPEAKER_00]: So you guys are in for a treat. [SPEAKER_00]: Remember though, before we jump in, [SPEAKER_00]: You got to go check us out on youtube.com 4 slash at the content crew.

1:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to have to tell you guys that thing starting to go up and starting to look really good. [SPEAKER_00]: So I got to say I appreciate you. [SPEAKER_00]: Follow all of our guests. [SPEAKER_00]: Follow me. [SPEAKER_00]: Check us out on LinkedIn and any other social where we're out there.

1:16 [SPEAKER_00]: We'd love to see you out there. [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_00]: So give us a little background. [SPEAKER_00]: Introduce people to you. [SPEAKER_01]: That's a mosaic of a path or a journey. [SPEAKER_01]: I started off, if you'd look at the beginning, I was supposed to be a dentist or a doctor or three, an acronym behind my name and decided I'm a little bit rebellious.

1:35 [SPEAKER_01]: So decided that's not what I wanted to do. [SPEAKER_01]: I found myself with one of the first Microsoft certified systems engineering certifications back in the day that's how old I am and so I found myself in technology. [SPEAKER_01]: implementing networks and so on, so for four dental offices.

1:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And then with that grew on and went to a company called Halberd, must sure many know, started there. [SPEAKER_01]: It took like an $8 hour job doing it back in the day, PC deployment, large, you know, 75,000 computer deployment. [SPEAKER_01]: And we were upgrading a network from token ring, an IPA, so that's how old I am.

2:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm going to show my age here, Jeff. [SPEAKER_01]: Shit. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I stayed with Haliburton for quite a few years. [SPEAKER_01]: It gave me my start and tech. [SPEAKER_01]: And then came up with an idea for some software. [SPEAKER_01]: Luckily, Haliburton was an amazing employer.

2:26 [SPEAKER_01]: They blessed me along the way to go talk to compact computers about my idea. [SPEAKER_01]: Then turned into Heal of Packard. [SPEAKER_01]: They gave me some capital to develop my software. [SPEAKER_01]: It was based on migrations doing mass migrations for large corporations enterprises.

2:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Stay there for about five or six years. [SPEAKER_01]: Matt, my husband and decided I wanted to be a mom more than I wanted to be a traveling consultant and software inventor. [SPEAKER_01]: left he would pack her left my original digital baby behind then got married and he had a little three-year-old boy that I fell in love with too and so we I went back to Haliburton for the second time which was a great step there again got to do all kinds of things moved out of IT into the actual business so I know a lot about hydrocarbons and then wanted to go for what we call an operator in [SPEAKER_01]: and that was amazing, totally different business model, just an experience that, I mean, you can't, those are like golden parachutes, right?

3:22 [SPEAKER_01]: There's so much breadth and enterprise, a corporate technology, you have budgets that are unbelievable that you've used to spend on leading edge technology. [SPEAKER_01]: So that was an amazing ride. [SPEAKER_01]: Normally, you don't leave those companies, you stay around those companies for a long time.

3:35 [SPEAKER_01]: They have pigeons, they have all kinds of benefits. [SPEAKER_01]: But I finally took somebody up on their offer to become a CTO, which you technology officer, with C-drill, large offshore drilling company. [SPEAKER_01]: One of the biggest, and that was fun. [SPEAKER_01]: I got to kind of put my own theories and I would say preconceived notions.

3:53 [SPEAKER_01]: to test. [SPEAKER_01]: I'd always thought a different way of leadership where you can actually enjoy being like a family with your people and your team and delivering value, but not a technology that's focused on the techies and the gadgets but focused on. [SPEAKER_01]: Decreasing costs, increasing revenue and improving margins, while making sure your workforce, your coworkers are happy and enjoy the tech that you're giving them.

4:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I tested out those theories at Seasual, then took a package, thought it was going to retire. [SPEAKER_01]: My husband been retired for quite a few years. [SPEAKER_01]: He was enjoying his man cave in our studio outside with whiskey and cigars and world of warcraft. [SPEAKER_01]: And I thought I would enjoy that too.

4:38 [SPEAKER_01]: We would maybe travel in our air stream across the country and we would retire early. [SPEAKER_01]: I failed if there's anything I've failed really well at. [SPEAKER_01]: It is failing retirement. [SPEAKER_01]: And so while I was failing retirement, I got a call from a recruiter, a company called Baker, was looking for a CTO, and I thought it was Baker Hughes at first, and which is the oil, and then started learning some familiar contacts with [SPEAKER_01]: with you, the CEO had had relationships with as well.

5:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I was my first introduction to Carl Watson, and just learned more about Baker, and I just hit it off with this executive team here, and my peers, and just realized that construction is a lot like energy used to be, which was gritty. [SPEAKER_01]: It had tradespeople that had core values that America was founded on.

5:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just the what I believe is very soulful. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I decided to come out of my failed retire it. [SPEAKER_01]: And I come to Baker. [SPEAKER_01]: So I've been here for two and a half years at living up two years, three months. [SPEAKER_01]: And have enjoyed getting to know this business model, understanding how this business works, certainly don't know everything about construction, probably that's my biggest.

5:48 [SPEAKER_01]: My biggest attribute is knowing what I don't know, but I do know how to make sure I go find those subject matter experts and put myself out there on these projects and learn from the guys that are actually doing the hard work. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that is awesome. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're going to have to go back through a lot of that on how you ended up.

6:07 [SPEAKER_00]: there and we can we can come across a you know Microsoft certified systems engineer I passed a couple of those classes and then I can firmly say we're probably aging ourselves but I was a compact certified replacement tech for the warranties so I could replace compact parts and ship them back and get us paid for them so yeah yeah the warranty program that then when HP took it over was a little bit different but [SPEAKER_00]: we could talk offline about what that mass migration tool was, but I think I may have used it because I did at what I used to do.

6:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And the hardest thing was getting all that active director stuff moved from one place to another, not missing anything. [SPEAKER_00]: And it was like, why hasn't somebody made it to, oh, look, somebody made it to, oh, so that is really cool. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think just given [SPEAKER_00]: you came up through the ranks of the bits and bytes and the bolts, nuts and bolts of it, but then also it's interesting because, you know, dentistry, very different, you know, then where you ended up going, but there's gotta be some golden threads we can pull through.

7:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Before we dive into that, they'll tell people like, what is Baker construction these days? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, how would you describe them? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we are the largest concrete construction company. [SPEAKER_01]: in the nation. [SPEAKER_01]: We build structures that are, I'm just in awe all the time with the structures we build from, you know, multi-level residential commercial buildings to look at the financial gas plants, nuclear facilities.

7:41 [SPEAKER_01]: stadiums, so, you know, tight in state. [SPEAKER_01]: Like just amazing. [SPEAKER_01]: There's such a gamut of the things that Baker builds. [SPEAKER_01]: And I never realized just how big a part of a budget, a project like an LSU plan, how much concrete is the budget? [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's been just an amazing world the peace back and peel back and understand.

8:07 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, we're the largest, I believe, we're the best, I know, we're the best. [SPEAKER_01]: And we got the best people, far none. [SPEAKER_01]: And we're privately held, and I think that's what gives us [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit. [SPEAKER_01]: The values that other above my head, I look at them every day, that the Baker family, especially at DLP, Dan Baker, could forth in the foundation of this company is just been phenomenal.

8:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So I remember when I got my profile, you know, when you get all these requests to come, you know, look in, particularly in our view for [SPEAKER_01]: CTO roles, you get these profiles, and in Baker's profile was the word fun and humor. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's that's the first time I'd ever seen a CV or profile of an organization, look like that, and my CV has that.

8:54 [SPEAKER_01]: So we were just aligned from a value standpoint. [SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy myself. [SPEAKER_01]: I like having fun. [SPEAKER_01]: I am who I am, and I'm not willing to change that for anyone. [SPEAKER_01]: I, I core values. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was good to come to a place where that really cared about people.

9:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Baker is a standout company. [SPEAKER_00]: It's really funny. [SPEAKER_00]: We have a few ties here that I didn't even realize. [SPEAKER_00]: So one of the first places I ever spoke was American Society of Concrete Contractors. [SPEAKER_00]: I came from a masonry contractor. [SPEAKER_00]: So I worked with a, with a small masonry contractor in the mountains.

9:23 [SPEAKER_00]: We had a concrete division, but it was because we were the 800 pound gorilla in the, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: kind of area. [SPEAKER_00]: So custom homes more, but you had to have, you know, that critical path concrete. [SPEAKER_00]: So and it was there that someone from Baker introduced me to the idea of how you guys all train each other in safety together.

9:46 [SPEAKER_00]: that with with competitors, et cetera, like I was like you guys do your training centers together and they're like listen, we share people we have to sometimes the people move sometimes they don't sometimes we're you know and but ultimately we don't just want our people to be safe we want everybody to be safe.

10:06 [SPEAKER_01]: It's our IIF program, absolutely. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the idea is the fundamental of who we are. [SPEAKER_01]: We want everybody to go home to their family. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you could see that. [SPEAKER_00]: You could hear it. [SPEAKER_00]: And it was just a cool company model to be in.

10:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And so now, [SPEAKER_00]: looking back over all these other industries. [SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, they have some similarities, but there are some differences. [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, where some of the golden threads that have pulled all the way through all of them that, you know, you can kind of provide some wisdom to people.

10:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I think coming from, if you look back, [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, construction is especially with the margins, right? [SPEAKER_01]: It's just not the barrel of an oil. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, a barrel of oil, it's definitely lower margins. [SPEAKER_01]: So that was an adjustment, right, to understand the business model here.

11:04 [SPEAKER_01]: But to also understand, like, it's a labor-intensive. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a people-intensive business. [SPEAKER_01]: And so the focus hasn't been on the digital age or digital transformation like other industries have and so to me that is an opportunity I feel like it also skipped the construction industry skipped some of that past 10 to 15 years of [SPEAKER_01]: you know, the the trend of going to the cloud or, you know, sass.

11:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, all of that kind of you go through these trends that the technology industry, the Bay Area usually puts you through, but it's kind of like construction looked at some of it was like, yep, [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I think in some sense that was valuable because it just got you got you to not spend on bullshit and now where we've been catapulted into this AI world where there are things that are financially you can swallow it.

12:06 [SPEAKER_01]: But that can get you good big gains on helping proof efficiency of a business for our processes that are out there, that these construction projects are facing. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm actually, you know, in the other industries I was in, I had to go through this whole trend thing. [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, when Gartner said this, and Gartner said that, you got my opinions of that whole situation, but, [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't, doesn't look like the construction industry acted like a little, what do you call it like when somebody pulls your chain?

12:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Like you can't get these industry tech people to pull the construction chains. [SPEAKER_01]: And so, but now I think it's the, it is a pinnacle moment for, we didn't spend the money on all that stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: Now we're looking at these startups that are focused on the construction industry.

12:53 [SPEAKER_01]: My goal is to with a mutually valuable relationship, two-way relationship, arm them with the knowledge from our subject matter experts, our guys that are in place to place finished, our project engineers, our PMs, arm them with their knowledge so they can go build us the best products. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I really liked that we were kind of skipped some of that and we're into this space where we could really take advantage of other things that are coming out right out with the genetic models with LMS with agents.

13:27 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, I think it's going to be amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, so it's funny because a lot of us have been around, you know, I've been around the industry now for about 10 years. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's funny, there was this chase the shiny object in pockets. [SPEAKER_00]: I think there were larger groups that stayed away from it.

13:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And I also, I had a friend and I'll have to give him credit for this one. [SPEAKER_00]: But he called it innovation theater a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: There was a lot of innovation theater early on of oh we're doing this and then you'd get under the covers and you'd find out yeah we're doing it on stage at a show and we have a director of innovation and they play with really cool things but like you said the fundamental timing of the SaaS world coincided with you know the crash and construction is always a [SPEAKER_00]: So we lagged in that crash and we also aren't as an industry as [SPEAKER_00]: like oil and gas has a few big winters, you know?

14:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a fully integrated group. [SPEAKER_00]: They're pulling it out of the ground, piping it and refining it in many cases all on their own. [SPEAKER_00]: That's not how jobs are built, right? [SPEAKER_00]: You just said it, you're the concrete portion of the job, but you're working with steel and you're working with, [SPEAKER_00]: you know, finishing and mechanical and electrical and plumbing and it just was like this puzzle that Silicon Valley couldn't figure out.

14:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think too though what you don't have because when I've learned and maybe some make a change might remember I I'm not fixed on knowing anything like I'm the junior on the baby in this industry, but but you also didn't have large companies because construction [SPEAKER_01]: that you don't have a lot of the companies that have IT directors or CIOs and CTOs.

15:28 [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't put those roles in their executive teams because they were so local. [SPEAKER_01]: They weren't a large corporation. [SPEAKER_01]: We were over 3 billion in our company. [SPEAKER_01]: So I think we cut in oil and gas. [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody says CIO. [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody says CTO.

15:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And so there weren't that there aren't that many are now you see the as the construction company start getting bigger. [SPEAKER_01]: They're starting to put these roles together. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was very nomadic. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that's why the Bay Area or or the tech industry couldn't get their hands deep into this into this industry because it was so bifurcated, so many different people, but not these sea level executives that they could go ping or talk to it.

16:08 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot more people to talk to [SPEAKER_01]: than that. [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, you, of course, you have the auto deaths to the blue beams of the world and the trembles of the world that are large software companies, but still have, I believe, a way to go in a sense of maturity in regards to road mapping.

16:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I get very frustrated talking to software companies. [SPEAKER_01]: I need a road map. [SPEAKER_01]: But what functionality is coming out that I'm paying X amount of money where a large company, we're paying a lot of money for software. [SPEAKER_01]: What functionality is coming down in that road map?

16:39 [SPEAKER_01]: How is it actually going to either help my guys decrease their expense, increase the revenue or improve their margins? [SPEAKER_01]: How's it going to help us avoid write downs? [SPEAKER_01]: Get more, get better write ups for the right things and serve our customers better. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's hard to get an understanding of what the road maps are in this case.

16:59 [SPEAKER_01]: The new AI companies do have a story, but the ones that have been around for a while, it's hard to understand. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and it's a product of exactly what you're saying. [SPEAKER_00]: Like this is what's so cool. [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like a walk down memory lane of going through it.

17:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So when I went to the Masonry company, I came from outside. [SPEAKER_00]: I came from the ski resort world and building software for ski resorts and ERPs for ski resorts. [SPEAKER_00]: And then working for a large publicly traded company that then was bought and dissolved. [SPEAKER_00]: Y'all can share that on another show.

17:32 [SPEAKER_00]: When I got here, I took over for a 40 year job cost accountant who became the IT person. [SPEAKER_00]: And he became it because he was good at it. [SPEAKER_00]: He could handle writing crystal reports into the Sage 300 CRE database to get information out of it. [SPEAKER_00]: And knew what the heck a computer was.

17:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And he met me and he was like, [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, you do this at a level I didn't understand. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, well, we're in the mountains. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I didn't know that this was endemic, but you're right. [SPEAKER_00]: It was endemic in the industry. [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember my first foray out there being like, if I meet one more construction company's IT person that was the boss's fishing buddy, I'm going to lose my mind.

18:19 [SPEAKER_00]: because they just don't like, they aren't fun. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I lived and breathed that world. [SPEAKER_00]: And everything to do with it, the, you know, my whole career, like, that's what I cared about. [SPEAKER_00]: And these people didn't, they didn't have that. [SPEAKER_01]: And so, in terms of the PMs, right?

18:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of the PMs and PEs that we have have had to become IT people. [SPEAKER_01]: If 400, 600 of projects going at one time, [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I can't have enough IT technology people out there supporting every project. [SPEAKER_01]: So they had to learn how to get a credit point, how to get an ISP, they put it on their credit card or then when Starling came, like, and I'm like, whoa, we need enterprise agreement there.

19:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me, I can negotiate better deals. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, so it's very nomadic and getting the thought around, hey, we're a large enterprise. [SPEAKER_01]: These are the things the other thing is like doing mandates for cybersecurity like that's a whole piece right the word mandate of you have to take this cybersecurity training It is like a requirement is like you're gonna make my guys do what and I'm like oh my god [SPEAKER_01]: it's just it's doing right but we're being attacked on a regular basis that we have to defend ourselves.

19:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah we saw this it was like unfortunately then the tail was wagging the dog like we didn't have a large contingent of and I still don't believe that we have enough of a large contingent of truly you know uh chief information, chief technology, truly [SPEAKER_00]: foundational in the tech itself.

19:56 [SPEAKER_00]: We're seeing this next gen be a lot about the BIM and the VDC folks because those tools were evolving so fast. [SPEAKER_00]: So they knew how to use them, so they rise up. [SPEAKER_00]: And again, they're wonderful people, but they're operational technology, right? [SPEAKER_00]: They're not IT and you need both of those because you do need cybersecurity.

20:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, they're looking at CMMC right now and Fed ramp and the stuff getting pushed down on us. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's interesting because those things were going on and you're right. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean... Yeah, the IT world didn't. [SPEAKER_01]: That trend didn't hit. [SPEAKER_00]: No.

20:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, I'm glad you're, wow, that's, I think about that kind of like six years ago, where everything was ITOT. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, oh, oh, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, [SPEAKER_00]: It meant to be an IT versus an OT and why you have a CIO and you have a CTO or you have a CIO that has a technology person that, you know, like it's, you know, simple, IT is plumbing and security and OT is weaponization and using it for the business and you need both right and you need that.

21:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we've been and that is really far behind here in construction and it has created it and you you listed off a lot of the companies you're absolutely right now go one bit further than just your you know product roadmap why do you exist what what is it you want to do and why if you think about a Microsoft I know why they exist I know generally where they're going to go and I kind of trust that they're going to get there.

21:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Amazon the same Google the same. [SPEAKER_00]: Like we know what these groups are going to do. [SPEAKER_00]: We don't really have that in our world in a maturity level yet. [SPEAKER_00]: And I would say that pretty ubiquitously. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's something we've got to work on. [SPEAKER_01]: Even in other industries, it drives me crazy that we spend most of our money on what some organizations called shared services or support services.

22:20 [SPEAKER_01]: meaning, it's been a lot of money on ERP, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And to me, those are, and human capital management systems, those are like core foundation, like that we shouldn't spend the most of our technology budget on those core company processes. [SPEAKER_01]: We should be spending the core of our money on the part of the business that generates revenue.

22:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's super, and but very few companies can flip that because the because the these core these companies that do ERP supply chain HR finance inventory they found a way to capitalize that corner and charge you a lot of money to do that shit. [SPEAKER_01]: when it's the standard process across you on board someone, you move somebody, you off board somebody, you purchase something, you receive it, you pay for it.

23:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Like these are like processes that are the same in every company. [SPEAKER_01]: And so just I hope we get to a place in construction. [SPEAKER_01]: where we are focused, especially with this new age of technology coming out, where most of our time and effort is being spent on the subsequent generate revenue and make the jobs of the people out on the ground, building these structures, make their jobs easier.

23:40 [SPEAKER_01]: That's my, I think a couple of weeks ago, I was in Denver, I went to eight projects. [SPEAKER_01]: and it was so amazing to see. [SPEAKER_01]: Just ideas were popping in my head, like I never, I would, I hope a PE or PM like never go back to the comics. [SPEAKER_01]: never go back to the trailer.

23:59 [SPEAKER_01]: If they were out there with the guys on like the all that time making sure the quality of the job for our customers was where they spent their time, where they spent their effort talking to the our co-workers, coming up with ideas of different ways to plan logistics or so on and so forth, rather than [SPEAKER_01]: going have to go and back all of the kinds of report quantity is all the way back to the kind to do time entry like all these main say processes that they have to keep going back and for I want you guys to go from the night floor down to the connex to simply order something the thing needed.

24:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to stay up on the night floor and just push the button and say this is what I need and it gets a quote and it comes back and on the night floor he gets it and knows what's [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and that is what we have lacked is the leadership to push that. [SPEAKER_00]: And I've been saying this over and over that the onus is on the industry itself to push back and say this is not what we will accept anymore because [SPEAKER_00]: When I got in, they were willing to accept it.

25:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I had the same experience. [SPEAKER_00]: I was sending people, I'd have realized that people were driving back to the office to get folders to cost code things, order to approve invoices. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, [SPEAKER_00]: Whoa, and the interesting thing was at that point in time, like I couldn't get any help.

25:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I made a name for myself because I figured out how to use a terminal services app to push, yeah, to push an app to my desk, to my phone, and I'll be honest with you because I like to have fun too, and I like to ride my bike, and I was riding my bike between five and six o'clock. [SPEAKER_00]: At night, my job cost accountant, [SPEAKER_00]: It would be locked up, but he couldn't do job costs accountant accounting.

25:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So I went on to the phone, made it go there, so I could kill these pervasive SQL connections, and then the job costs would run. [SPEAKER_00]: And one day, the COO asked me, like, how did you do that? [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, well, I did this thing, and it's just, you know, this, and he goes, could you push this, this, and this to that?

26:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Because our guys are dying, getting that done. [SPEAKER_00]: watching the application out there like just spinning in the forever hour glass will just having to drive to To the office to do it and I was like you know what I can and I could put it on an iPad and that got out in the industry and people are like what and [SPEAKER_00]: And that's when I realized the industry is not never really drew that line of what we will accept.

26:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's really interesting to see you come in, this is now the audience knows why I've been chasing you for so long. [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's what we need. [SPEAKER_00]: We need the voices of reason that have the technological advancement to guide us. [SPEAKER_00]: Because people listening, especially because a lot of those big companies listen to the show, and I'm at one of them, I'm actually not upset with you.

26:59 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not what I'm saying. [SPEAKER_00]: What I'm saying is, without clear leadership from us, what did you think was going to happen? [SPEAKER_00]: This is what happened. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what we want. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's... [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you get, I've been on the software side when I was with Comic and HP and you, you know, and I came from industry vertical.

27:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So I, you, what happens is you get in these tech companies and you think you know what the customer needs or whatever, but you lose sight of really what's happening on a regular basis. [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's why my goal of giving them intellectual property information. [SPEAKER_01]: giving them access to our coworkers so that their product stays where we need it to go to how to move forward.

27:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's just, but it's a, it's a back and forth and it's gonna take us a little bit while, the other thing is, and maybe I'm just not tapped into it is kind of a coalition or a collaboration of technologists across the industry. [SPEAKER_01]: We, you know, I've been going to this construction, [SPEAKER_01]: technology, advancing construction technology, that seems to be, but, you know, in other industries, you kind of have a club of CTOs that are the ones that continue to help push the industry forward or the tech companies forward.

28:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: I go to the Bay Area, at least twice a year, just to stay in touch with my contacts there on what's going on. [SPEAKER_01]: on the leading edge. [SPEAKER_01]: But in Southeast Florida, you have some startups starting up in this industry that it's like the little Silicon Valley of construction.

28:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And so with these companies like sub base and document crunch and trunk tools and vendor plan that's coming out like they've got some tech happening down there in the Southeast Florida space that you're like, okay, let's let's get them moving forward. [SPEAKER_01]: But let's also advise them on what we need.

28:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And they need to be willing to listen and respond. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's super exciting. [SPEAKER_01]: I find it a fascinating industry to be a part of, even more so, because we haven't become so Wall Street-like. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's my version. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to be Wall Street, if you again.

29:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Have any questions to the analysts? [SPEAKER_00]: No, answer to the street that doesn't care. [SPEAKER_00]: I love that. [SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, this is what's kept me here and in love with it, I'm gonna connect two things. [SPEAKER_00]: All of those crafts people out in the field that are actually like, this is a world where they do work.

29:23 [SPEAKER_00]: They build the world around us. [SPEAKER_00]: That's in the end, we get paid to do that. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's on their backs. [SPEAKER_00]: And so they should have fun. [SPEAKER_00]: They should have a better experience overall. [SPEAKER_00]: So you have that like driver and goal. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you have this puzzle that you're still trying to put together.

29:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I mean, you'll laugh. [SPEAKER_00]: But when I got in this business, I left the machinery company to be a consultant. [SPEAKER_00]: And the first thing I had to teach people was, you have to know your requirements. [SPEAKER_00]: To know your requirements. [SPEAKER_00]: You have to know your business.

29:56 [SPEAKER_00]: To know your business. [SPEAKER_01]: My co-working guy here you say that are going to be like, oh, there she goes again, I mean literally documenting your business goals and your business requirements for an output like you've got to put in. [SPEAKER_01]: The requirements to understand, this is how I want something to work.

30:13 [SPEAKER_01]: This is what I'm trying to achieve with this particular solution. [SPEAKER_01]: The business requirements, the functionality requirements, the technical requirements, the follow. [SPEAKER_01]: You have to have all that documented to make sure you're going to achieve what you're actually set out for.

30:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's a hard one. [SPEAKER_01]: The BAA role, what I call, I'm sure business analyst role. [SPEAKER_01]: That sits in technology to document those requirements is so important and a lot of companies don't have them. [SPEAKER_01]: And so, or in order to have their own internal PMOs, and so you really have to get in a particle around.

30:48 [SPEAKER_01]: delivering food. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's not made a career in this industry. [SPEAKER_00]: And I can tell you there's there's people out there come up to me and go I didn't know what a business analyst was. [SPEAKER_00]: And then I knew I wanted to be it and I heard you say it and I went and did it and I was like, Wow, that's really cool.

31:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I had to have a whole panel on CIO's CTO's OTI and say listen. [SPEAKER_00]: Because you run construction projects and your project manager does not mean you know how to run an IT project they are completely different things because like [SPEAKER_00]: One goes on forever, one has a start and stop.

31:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, sure, we might hand it over to our service, but let's not worry about that. [SPEAKER_00]: We hand the building over to the CEO and we walk out. [SPEAKER_00]: That's how they were treating technology projects. [SPEAKER_00]: And like, no, you never walk out. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not done on the software you're gonna deal with.

31:43 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right, that's right. [SPEAKER_00]: You've got releases, you've got these things. [SPEAKER_00]: So like, the fundamentals were missing, but that's been so fun to watch for me. [SPEAKER_00]: We're still maturing. [SPEAKER_00]: We are not there and we need more of it. [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, there are some of those clubs out there, like groups of CTOs and CIOs, the thing that I found is they're very horizontally based.

32:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And then there was this fear of competition, like especially in technology, like if I share what I'm doing, it's my secret sauce. [SPEAKER_00]: And we had to be like, listen, [SPEAKER_00]: that's not your secret sauce that never will be it's going to be built into the DNA of the software anyway and get out there your strategic advantages your culture it it's your growth it's a wigs and build concrete structures I mean at the end of the point where he's like oh well don't tell anybody you're using that AI I'm like [SPEAKER_01]: really that's not that's not what I'm competing with my customer my competitors on what I could be on my competitors is that I believe it can build a better concrete structure than our competitors has nothing to do with the software I put in their hands in that that may help me on margin that may help me on you know avoiding right-downs or or or a verding risk but you know in a sense of documenting it and making sure our customers know what's going on out there the GCS but

33:03 [SPEAKER_01]: know, we're better building structures, not because we have a piece of AI. [SPEAKER_00]: You're exactly right. [SPEAKER_00]: And that also crossing over. [SPEAKER_00]: So it was like, you know, you'd see groups of mechanicals get together. [SPEAKER_00]: You see groups of electricals get together.

33:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And also, like, be honest, we have union. [SPEAKER_00]: We have open shops. [SPEAKER_00]: So there was separation. [SPEAKER_00]: And [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're about to hit that point where people will understand that although separations and all those things are true in those stay, I'm not saying get rid of any of that.

33:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying that the technology people, especially CIOs and this CTO idea can cross over and work with one another and talk to one of their and share because again, the industry as a whole is probably who will [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, benefit from that. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what we need. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think you're definitely right.

33:52 [SPEAKER_01]: We're better together. [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason we're better together, because we're more powerful together. [SPEAKER_01]: When we have the software companies that are doing so many major, so many massive acquisitions. [SPEAKER_01]: And then they're not and then they. [SPEAKER_01]: don't converge their road maps in a way that serves us as their customer properly.

34:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, there's a big acquisition that just happened, which from Bull and document crunch. [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, my question to that is, well, where is that going to be? [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's a contract management system, contract assessment system, where's that going to be in your product roadmap and where am I going to people going to access it and what versions you I think more powerful as a single voice together to push the software and technology companies to deliver what we need so that we don't have hiccups so that we're not waiting.

34:40 [SPEAKER_01]: to be able to leverage that functionality and get value out of what we're paying for you to acquire. [SPEAKER_00]: I fully agree, and I came in very hot on like, listen, acquisitions is the way it goes. [SPEAKER_00]: This is what happens. [SPEAKER_00]: 90% of all software technology companies exit through that.

34:56 [SPEAKER_00]: they don't exit through IPO, you know, some of them, a lot of them fail, a few of them IPO, the majority of them end up in either some sort of acquisition, or I would call it a lifestyle based product that, you know, is a niche and it stays where it is. [SPEAKER_00]: But we haven't been, they're historically, it hasn't been.

35:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think you're right, if you eye that one up, I'm, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: Little teaser to the future I got it, you know, I got word that Josh Levy will be coming on to talk about it and that talk about that acquisition everybody listening knows I know Josh really well we've been a fan of crunch since the beginning and him but you're right these new startups these new companies that are evolving like.

35:42 [SPEAKER_00]: It is the time to teach them what those road maps coming together look like how that we do rely on their software. [SPEAKER_00]: We pick up in a different industry is just I have to open a few things, but like you said, a hiccup to you is I got to come nine floors down, go back it into the trailer, do something and come back.

36:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's also something I think [SPEAKER_00]: we should be putting out there as IT leadership is that is what I don't want. [SPEAKER_00]: Like go out. [SPEAKER_00]: It's so funny. [SPEAKER_00]: There's this whole lean movement and gimbal walking and going out and watching the work happen.

36:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I want IT. [SPEAKER_00]: I want OT to embrace that and go do that. [SPEAKER_00]: And I want like you said [SPEAKER_00]: for the continuity. [SPEAKER_01]: Huge return and a huge risk of weight where your work so long on delivering a solution for one of your business processes, then you just miss.

36:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And you don't have a lot of money to miss with. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that's, I think it's really important. [SPEAKER_01]: The other thing is around the solutions that are coming out is, and the software companies is the customer successful. [SPEAKER_01]: that software companies have.

36:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I have not yet seen, not even in just this world, even another industries, a company that is good at customer success. [SPEAKER_01]: Just haven't seen it. [SPEAKER_01]: And I've been a lot of places. [SPEAKER_01]: They get around. [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I just, it's, um, it'll be interesting to see, I mean, I continue to push.

37:19 [SPEAKER_01]: good versus success is a whole different world. [SPEAKER_01]: And so don't just put a role in their place and call somebody customer success manager, if you're not really gonna be focused on customer success. [SPEAKER_01]: So that'll be how that evolves too. [SPEAKER_00]: I agree and I think we're in a really unique time as you said on what AI is capable of doing and what it's enabling is I've been talking about this.

37:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, everyone out there in the software world, it's not software as a service anymore. [SPEAKER_00]: It's service and a software. [SPEAKER_00]: or service as a software. [SPEAKER_00]: It is now more than ever, and almost anybody can build anything. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's about your ability to articulate and understand how the tool can make business work, what standard operating procedures look like, what good workflow looks like, what complete looks like, and what adoption is, [SPEAKER_00]: Those are the things that the software companies that exist now.

38:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Those who can use that and can, and by the way, guys, you're sitting on years of this data and expertise and young and hungry people who have an industry full of people who want to tell you stories, who want to tell you about their day, who want to walk you through what they do. [SPEAKER_00]: Those two things together make goal and it's going to harm us.

38:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It'll harm us it. [SPEAKER_00]: So we're getting to that point. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to have to wrap it up. [SPEAKER_00]: What are some words of wisdom? [SPEAKER_00]: What would you like others in this industry that, you know, to glean from you and learn? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that I can say, I'm new to this one.

39:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously not new to technology, but new to the construction industry. [SPEAKER_01]: Only two years in. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that I would have a whole lot of wisdom that I think I should impart on people that have been in this industry for a long time. [SPEAKER_01]: What I would say or maybe request is a continuous level of conversation and collaboration and interaction so that we can together learn [SPEAKER_01]: from not only this industry, but also importantly other industries in what they're doing and how they're moving forward, the level of innovation that you're seeing out there.

39:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I think failures is something I would my words of wisdom as show your failures. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll share mine so that we can both avoid it and get to the place where our industry is doing really well in the core things that we need to be doing well in. [SPEAKER_01]: And then the other thing is listen, my only word of wisdom is listen to your co-workers, listen to the guys that are out there doing the work that are building structures and understand what they really think is valuable and not.

40:03 [SPEAKER_01]: That's my only word. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just really delusional. [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I'm headed out to the North next week. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be in Michigan and multiple places, probably about six jobs next week. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's my goal is I really am focused this year on a couple of key roles that sit on these construction projects and figuring out how I can minimize the level of ministry of effort that they have to do on a regular basis so that they can be out there with the guys and make sure the quality of our build and our structures are the best we can do.

40:29 [SPEAKER_00]: we waste so much of their time in paperwork instead of keeping their eyes on the job and their eyes on what's getting done and using that expertise, their expertise is not in technology, their expertise is in concrete and building structures. [SPEAKER_01]: They're kinesthetic people. [SPEAKER_01]: So to put them in paper and make them sit in an office and do this, they go into construction for a reason.

40:48 [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't want to be sitting in a corporate office. [SPEAKER_01]: for a reason. [SPEAKER_01]: And so how do we make sure they can stay out there focused on stuff they really want to do? [SPEAKER_00]: I will echo and just say that what I hear in that and I think is really powerful for everybody out there listening is this is a CIO CTO that is going out and meeting people where they are on the job.

41:09 [SPEAKER_00]: There is literally no way to know what to do if you don't do that. [SPEAKER_00]: And none of us at any level are above that. [SPEAKER_00]: You've got to go do that and experience the work where it is so that you can go back to doing what we do. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's great words of wisdom.

41:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It was totally worth the weight in the chase to get you. [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you so much for sitting down with me today. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I appreciate you. [SPEAKER_01]: I helped land an RMD table off with the crane. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's super fun. [SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait to get back out there.

41:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you for having me and I love that you have fun with it. [SPEAKER_00]: That is a great word of wisdom. [SPEAKER_00]: This industry can be fun and it should be fun. [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see you out there soon, hopefully. [SPEAKER_00]: That's good, thank you for tuning in today to geek out for our interview with Jennifer Home.

41:59 [SPEAKER_00]: To read all our new stories, learn more about our guests and to listen to this show, visit thecontecrude.com. [SPEAKER_00]: This is the Contecrude signing out until next time, enjoy the ride, and geek out.