The Construction Industry Doesn't Need More Software; It Needs Better Connections with Yael Hanan

0:00 [SPEAKER_01]: On this week's show, Trimble Dimensions preview with Yale Hanan from Pelis. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, this might sound a little weird. [SPEAKER_01]: You've seen us do these before. [SPEAKER_01]: But this is a first for us at the contact crew. [SPEAKER_01]: We are a media sponsor for Trimble Dimensions, 2026.

0:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It's November 9, 2011. [SPEAKER_00]: At the Venetian in Las Vegas. [SPEAKER_01]: That's right, Nathan. [SPEAKER_01]: We're hitting the road. [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to Vegas. [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think in my man? [SPEAKER_00]: Vegas, baby. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do it. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited to see it.

0:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I see you way more outside of color than I ever see you in colorado, but that's okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I fly over you a lot and then we catch up in places, or just in Minneapolis, or in other places, you know, it's much more fun to see you out on the road. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm excited to get to Trimble Dimensions.

0:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be transparent. [SPEAKER_01]: This will be a first for me. [SPEAKER_01]: We were talking about a pre-call. [SPEAKER_01]: It feels like a continent I haven't set foot on yet. [SPEAKER_01]: I've done the other biggies, but not this one. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm excited, man. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good one, man.

1:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Vegas is always a good time. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, with Trimble, you get all that hardware, right? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the Expo4 and I mean, it's a 15 acre work site. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just the hands-on tech aspect of it. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's enough that you don't get at the other ones is all this kind of like the big infrastructure heavy highway hardware stuff.

1:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really cool. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, that real connection to hardware that they use and you're hitting it right this year obviously that we talking AI and talking work flows and excited for Rob Painter the CEO and you know talking about all the things that are going on and how they're connecting the workflows in the field but like you said unlike everybody else they actually have a lot of hardware so they have an offsite expo with that 15 acres for hands on project work.

1:56 [SPEAKER_01]: You really want to get your nerd on, you really want to get your fields sense together. [SPEAKER_01]: You got that to go to 700 other sessions. [SPEAKER_01]: Start up competition, I'm leaning in. [SPEAKER_01]: We got somebody sitting here waiting to talk. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't worry, we're going to get there.

2:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Expo Hall as usual, start up competition, a developer summit, a little bit of everything. [SPEAKER_01]: But also highlighting this Trimble Zero to 60 Challenge. [SPEAKER_01]: which brings us to our lovely guests too. [SPEAKER_01]: I cannot believe we have not had on. [SPEAKER_01]: I've been a fan of not only the company palace, but of YAL as well over the years.

2:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So, YAL, welcome to the show. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Jeff. [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, Nathan. [SPEAKER_02]: I also can't believe I haven't been there before. [SPEAKER_02]: It's really good to be on to show today. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, really, transparency, I was talking to Yael about doing this episode and said, you know, but I think it's a great time to bring you back on and she had to tell me that Chen been on yet.

2:50 [SPEAKER_01]: It just felt like you had. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's just because we know each other for so long and we've been talking and so many issues, it's like, you know, it was like, are you sure? [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I would have remembered. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure. [SPEAKER_01]: I had to use one of those AI things to go find out, you know, she was right.

3:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So why don't you tell folks a little bit about you and then how you landed here at Pelis? [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm the co-founder and CEO of Pelis, like you know, in my background, I was a construction lawyer for many years. [SPEAKER_02]: Got a new construction law very coincidentally to be honest.

3:23 [SPEAKER_02]: I worked at a very large law firm. [SPEAKER_02]: I liked the partner who was leading the construction. [SPEAKER_02]: law practice wanted to work with them specifically and just fell in love in the industry you know You walk at the street. [SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing there. [SPEAKER_02]: You walk in the same street two years later And you suddenly see a huge building right I was actually a part of building this thing So for me was incredible.

3:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I did it almost six years at one of the largest law firms in Israel And then I shifted into tech oddly enough stop being a lawyer [SPEAKER_02]: worked at the nearly staged startup, figured out that this is actually what I want to do when I grow up, figured out it was in the medical device industry that industry isn't really for me, and that was my last proper job before palace.

4:01 [SPEAKER_02]: So now I get to combine two of my passions in one place. [SPEAKER_01]: That is awesome. [SPEAKER_01]: I love that because we hear a lot of people who have the experience of being in the industry or family in the industry, but you tangentially hit the industry, and then when it [SPEAKER_01]: What did you come back?

4:18 [SPEAKER_01]: What problem did you come back to solve? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm sure from the law perspective, you saw a lot of the holes in the industry. [SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting because we're a team of foreco founders. [SPEAKER_02]: We all come with a very diverse background. [SPEAKER_02]: He told my CTO, my co-founder, CTO.

4:33 [SPEAKER_02]: He was a mechanical engineer. [SPEAKER_02]: He worked construction himself. [SPEAKER_02]: And then he shifted also in his masters in tech. [SPEAKER_02]: And Matan or VPR and V, he's also originally a mechanical engineer. [SPEAKER_02]: work as a data scientist and couple of the largest tech companies out there in the far COO strong operator building and scaling tech startup.

4:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And we all came together around construction because we all have some kind of connection to the industry and to the problems and specifically for trade contractors, honestly. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like our favorite vertical we can talk hours about why, but it just to us it made a lot of sense to come together.

5:09 [SPEAKER_02]: and solve the problem we're solving today. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious in the construction law point of view, where you back then, where you representing the trade contractors, where representing GCs, like what led you to kind of empathize for the trade contractor. [SPEAKER_02]: So I think both actually, honestly, you know, as a lawyer, you represent whoever pays you.

5:26 [SPEAKER_02]: In some projects you would land with a GC in some projects you would land with a large trade. [SPEAKER_02]: So no one thing, but I think that when you look at it, we had a couple of different problems we're exploring. [SPEAKER_02]: But then when we got into the trades, it was so appealing.

5:39 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a huge vertical. [SPEAKER_02]: They are doing the hardest work in construction in our opinion, and it's a vertical that really goes on attention. [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody's really building software for that. [SPEAKER_02]: and for us it just made a lot of sense to focus there on the people who are doing the hardest job and need tools that are dedicated for it.

5:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So what data are you finding that they care the most about and they pay traditionally they would be looked as they do whatever the G.C. [SPEAKER_00]: tells them to do and they don't care about the data. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's true today. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it used to be. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, like what data are trades asking for?

6:08 [SPEAKER_00]: What are they interested in? [SPEAKER_02]: So, we'd tell us, I'll go back a step for a second, but we'd tell us we're building AI infrastructure for trade contractors. [SPEAKER_02]: Basically, allowing the trades take their knowledge, their expertise, their data, and their processes and turn it into an AI power system.

6:24 [SPEAKER_02]: So, basically taking the capabilities we're building, [SPEAKER_02]: and leveraging them to build their own agents, workflows, and applications that are really dedicated to how they do the work, or to how they would like to do it, which is also a big difference. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that for trades, you know, everybody, you know, one of the biggest, [SPEAKER_02]: hypes in the industry's data silos, right, and fragmentation, but from the trace perspective, that problem is probably 100 times worse than what usually has been discussed.

6:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Because a trade contractor has many different faces to his job. [SPEAKER_02]: They manage labor in the field. [SPEAKER_02]: They are completing design, they're purchasing materials, they're fabricating, they have so many systems they work with, [SPEAKER_02]: And then on top of it, they have all the GC systems that the GC picks up for them and forces them into.

7:13 [SPEAKER_02]: So for them, what silos and fragmentations you will like is really, really weight worst in everybody else's, just bringing all of that together into one could textualize place and then building the intelligence and actions and automations on top of it. [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's a huge value for you.

7:30 [SPEAKER_01]: You really hit on a number of good things there because it is really why. [SPEAKER_01]: I've wondered in this process of just selecting it. [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, it's where the work it's done, but why do you think they were underserved? [SPEAKER_01]: And what do you think people can learn a little bit more about how to serve this better?

7:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you're right, there was a lot more tools. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is not the only ones going out into this frontier but you are definitely a leader and definitely sitting on a small group right now. [SPEAKER_02]: So I think trade contractors like we're talking trade contractors, right?

8:00 [SPEAKER_02]: But there is no one trade contractor workflow. [SPEAKER_02]: You have mechanical, you have electrical, you have plumbing, you have drywall and finishing or asphalt. [SPEAKER_02]: All of them are different groups with different needs and different challenges and processes. [SPEAKER_02]: And then even within electrical contractors, I have that metric contractors who have the same workflows and do what they're work the same way.

8:21 [SPEAKER_02]: So it was really hard to build a software that actually covers wide variety of workflows and trades that actually makes sense. [SPEAKER_02]: That's one reason. [SPEAKER_02]: And then the other reason is that, content in general is new-ish, let's say. [SPEAKER_02]: And when you have something new, [SPEAKER_02]: which in our case it's G.C.S.

8:45 [SPEAKER_02]: and I think that today both were now experiencing new waves of the context and with AI, it's not just the enabler for construction like for our users, it's also our enabler to build a more flexible software that can accommodate that wide variety of traits and serve all of them in a good way that suits each and every one of them.

9:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think you're absolutely right, but usually people listen, give us an example of where, you know, no two electrical is none of them are the same. [SPEAKER_01]: Give me an example of some of the areas the aha, as you said, this is what's different. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is what we can do now to help solve the problem.

9:21 [SPEAKER_02]: So we say, Pellis is connected, right? [SPEAKER_02]: We're bringing all of their data into one place and then built on top of [SPEAKER_02]: Let's take one workflow, for example, a contractor just got a bit package downloaded out of building connected. [SPEAKER_02]: He then takes the drawing sets out of it, electrical sheets only, breaks him down, puts it into acubed for takeoff, trembles, takeoff software.

9:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Then he will build his estimate, perfect. [SPEAKER_02]: Those two places aren't really connected, and the data doesn't really flow in between them. [SPEAKER_02]: So with Pelis, we would grab the documents from [SPEAKER_02]: We will take the estimate from ACUPID, we will cross reference them and see that there is no contradictions between the things that you put in your estimate and the specifications and the contract and everything else.

10:11 [SPEAKER_02]: If there are, we will flat it for you right UDRFI and then you can automatically submit it into ProCorp, for example, closing an entire loop of making sure you don't miss any scope gaps, flow of data that is seamlessly across all the platforms you work with. [SPEAKER_02]: Does that make sense?

10:26 [SPEAKER_01]: It does because if you really break that down, what all those steps are a human going to building connected, grabbing the bid package, removing the sheets that they want, uploading it into acubed, working on it and acubed. [SPEAKER_01]: And then anything that I get out of it, having to get into Procore and if I understand this, then I'm now sitting in [SPEAKER_01]: my palace dashboard and building connected.

10:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm grabbing it. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm pushing it to acubed, but I'm going over and doing my work in acubed then, right? [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I want people to understand is it's like, it's not like some agent goes out there and then does everything in acubed for you. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, hey, it's over in acubed.

11:02 [SPEAKER_01]: You do everything in acubed and then it combines in and double checks it for you. [SPEAKER_01]: And then automates like, so I don't have to go right in email. [SPEAKER_01]: I just push the RFI into ProCore. [SPEAKER_02]: correct. [SPEAKER_02]: So that would be one good example. [SPEAKER_02]: Another good example would be cross-projected intelligence, right?

11:16 [SPEAKER_02]: For trades, it's really, really hard to close the loop between the estimate and the close-out and really understand what happened in between helping them close that loop again because we sit on top of all of your data and identify what really happened in between your estimate and the close-out even if you ended up in the same number and then help you leverage that intelligence across all of your projects [SPEAKER_02]: Pick your project to that or because maybe you're doing a lot of hospital renovations, but your margins are 5% higher when you do schools, so let's start doing more schools, and let's hospital renovation.

11:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, Nathan, I'm going to let you ask a question here a second. [SPEAKER_01]: But before you go, years ago we had that conversation. [SPEAKER_01]: It is that in this business, we are really good at estimating. [SPEAKER_01]: But actually, when you dig into that estimate, I wouldn't call it's lucky, but like we're always over this much year under this much year, and it sort of comes out in the wash at that estimate.

12:12 [SPEAKER_02]: So like, and you don't know what happened in between. [SPEAKER_01]: And you don't know why. [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, that's where your margin could increase. [SPEAKER_01]: Right, because if you can figure out, hey, we're going way over here and why is that okay, that's because that numbers not good and we're getting way under over here, why is that we can actually if we close that gap more the gap we can create is revenue and it's the true budget to actual that we've always wanted in other systems and a GC can pull that off now, right, because of the way that world works, but that is so much harder.

12:44 [SPEAKER_01]: as a trade contractor. [SPEAKER_01]: So this is cool to see that functionality getting there. [SPEAKER_01]: So that was you just made a prediction from eight years ago come true. [SPEAKER_01]: I think on the show. [SPEAKER_01]: So who said things were going super fast. [SPEAKER_02]: We're there now I'm here to you know, make your dreams come true, but I think that also like going back to it.

13:02 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not just closing the gap and closing the loop or. [SPEAKER_02]: connecting a workflow in between systems like we described. [SPEAKER_02]: It's doing it the way they're doing it now. [SPEAKER_02]: So understanding how their workflow works and coding that and to the software. [SPEAKER_02]: So like we tell them, it's not that you onboard a new software, AI onboards you and how you do the work.

13:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So really tailored to that. [SPEAKER_00]: And back to my original question of what day do they care about? [SPEAKER_00]: It's am I losing money? [SPEAKER_00]: And that's essential. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the example of what you were delivering, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Am I losing money or work?

13:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, one of the other. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the positive or and I don't know this so this I probably should ask you before this, but are you incorporating schedule into that. [SPEAKER_01]: Correct. [SPEAKER_01]: So see, and we now know and we've been saying this forever right time is money, but now when you look at liquid data damages around these.

14:03 [SPEAKER_02]: So again, you can build any type of workflow and to the application layer of palace. [SPEAKER_02]: For example, you can take, build an app that takes the GC schedule. [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, those are updated as the project progresses in what actually happens. [SPEAKER_02]: And then automatically combines it to project into your own schedule on when should I order my materials, when should my equipment be on site?

14:26 [SPEAKER_02]: When do I start fabrication? [SPEAKER_02]: Because again, you know, there's a delicate [SPEAKER_02]: you don't want them too late, but you definitely want don't want them too early. [SPEAKER_02]: And again, also the intelligence of how did I do, how can I be better for the next project?

14:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Does that make sense? [SPEAKER_01]: You're nailing it because that is the exact step that you need and are very hard to make all of that work because again, classically, people don't realize these days that so much is being ordered. [SPEAKER_01]: We have [SPEAKER_01]: tons of ordering problems and material lag times.

14:55 [SPEAKER_01]: We also have fabrication and fabrication needs, but if your shop's fabricating too fast, then you've got a material handling cost that's sitting around for too long. [SPEAKER_01]: And so there's this perfect timing that has to be orchestrated. [SPEAKER_01]: And classically it's done in a schedule, but you don't know the rest of it.

15:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So you have to talk to this person or talk to that person. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not that we, their information is not important. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just that it needs to be timely. [SPEAKER_01]: And then we need to know on this one, we really had to make up time and we saved ourselves.

15:26 [SPEAKER_01]: But that's not always gonna happen. [SPEAKER_01]: How do we prevent that in the future? [SPEAKER_01]: And then by the way, turning around, it's not something like, [SPEAKER_01]: stick and carrot thing, it's turning around and sitting down in these collaborative worlds now in hyperscalers, data centers, all this stuff and saying, hey, here's the problems we've seen.

15:43 [SPEAKER_01]: We hear this over and over. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a little bit business anymore in the trade world when it comes to hyperscalers and data centers. [SPEAKER_01]: It's about partnerships and being picked for your expertise, but also your transparency around, we got to get the stuff done.

15:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's where it goes wrong. [SPEAKER_01]: And how do we incorporate that earlier into the process to make sure nobody's scrambling later? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's an electrical I want to work with. [SPEAKER_01]: That's a mechanical I want to work with. [SPEAKER_01]: Heck, that could be a finishing carpenter that I want to work with in the end.

16:16 [SPEAKER_01]: These are important pieces. [SPEAKER_01]: And they differ depending on what type of job you're doing. [SPEAKER_02]: for sure. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's funny. [SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about, this is a trained I want to work with, but for example, if you look, again, we go back to bidding phase.

16:28 [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of the problems are there, obviously, but not only they have a pre-vid RFI time window, right, to submit their RFIs that they can do. [SPEAKER_02]: Most trade contractors don't even open the bit package before RFIs are due. [SPEAKER_02]: Now, [SPEAKER_02]: We get the documentation when they get it and we basically automatically suggest, hey, here the [SPEAKER_02]: top 10 RFI's you should submit.

16:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And we see it from trade contractors. [SPEAKER_02]: They're like GCs come back to them and say, those RFI's are really good. [SPEAKER_02]: They got us thinking about a lot of stuff that when a notice and suddenly that gets them points in the relationship, which is actually eventually when it's the product rate.

17:08 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's always about identifying that trade contractors bottlenecks and then helping them do their job better and freeing up their time. [SPEAKER_02]: Right? [SPEAKER_02]: The human becomes instead of doing the actual manual work. [SPEAKER_02]: to supervise the work and making the decision to unit a human to make.

17:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that can write out of the MEP Innovation Report we did with Nika Smackman MCA. [SPEAKER_01]: Is that's exactly the problem. [SPEAKER_01]: Two money of our skilled folks are in the work, not in the decisions and we need them out of the work and in the decision making and at that table, [SPEAKER_01]: focus to have that conversation because any decision made up stream, we know it lands on the trades and the trades are the people who put in work.

17:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And with all the integrations and all the things it makes a lot of sense that you guys would be in Trimble 0 to 60. [SPEAKER_01]: So explain a little bit about Trimble 0 to 60 and your integration path and why you're stepping into that world right now. [SPEAKER_01]: What it's like for, you know, a startup.

18:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure, so the 0 to 60 is a challenge by Trimble for startup basically to build integration into [SPEAKER_02]: any type of Trimble product, sweet, whatever. [SPEAKER_02]: For us specifically, again, we serve the trades, Trimble products are big at trades. [SPEAKER_02]: And we got customers coming to us and say, hey, can you please build an integration into Acubate?

18:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you please build an integration into Project site? [SPEAKER_02]: And we just went down that path of exploring how we go about it. [SPEAKER_02]: And during that, we discovered a program and it just for us, it made a lot of sense. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I guess going through, is it the first accelerator in the industry that you've been in or have you been in other?

18:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess, yeah, what do you be learning from going through this one? [SPEAKER_02]: So I think tapping into the Trimble network and all of the things that the allow, like we've used the program to integrate into project site, acubed, and Trim Connect, and we're now going into your piece that that's a whole other story.

19:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that we've learned [SPEAKER_02]: how to work with very large organizations like Trimble, how to leverage your ecosystem and the resources they have put to us, and how to build a really good both use cases for our mutual customers, but also like a better together story of us and there.

19:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's critical, right, to the future of startups, right? [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of big players and big portions. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I remember in the beginning a lot of, we're going to disrupt, we're going to get rid of, but really, now the world's filling space. [SPEAKER_01]: It's filling that white space, and it would make sense that you'd want to fill it there and other places, right?

19:41 [SPEAKER_01]: How is that managing that? [SPEAKER_01]: Because you're creating a category in and of itself for the industry, but you're not pushing others out of their categories. [SPEAKER_02]: So, a couple of things, I think that's first of all, again, if you're looking at it from the trace perspective and we talked about how many different types of roles or hats they're wearing, I don't think it's realistic to think that one softer can come in and be the one that rules it all.

20:06 [SPEAKER_02]: It would be both, if really good purchasing softer and an estimating tool and it take off to a fabrication, it's just not realistic, that's one thing. [SPEAKER_02]: The other thing is that those trades have spent years building your text down. [SPEAKER_02]: to work with project site or acubed and why you're using stratus for your fabrication.

20:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you're as a reason for all of that. [SPEAKER_02]: We are here to be the connection that brings everything into one place, then builds the action automated layer on top of it. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's more of a complementary kind of thing, in my opinion, which for trades is crucial, because again, the number of systems they work in, but I don't see us replacing any of those players, honestly.

20:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I like how you said that. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I've certainly talked about tech stacks, but like thinking of a tech stack for a trade contractor being your tools, your systems, and your workflows, right? [SPEAKER_00]: That there's three different components, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Like data can be stored somewhere.

21:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And like a blue beam is a great example of that, right? [SPEAKER_00]: It's a fantastic tool that is so utilitarian as all these different use cases. [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody always wants to grab the data from there and go put it in all these different systems. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's based on the workflow that they're doing.

21:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, everything that you're focused on is like what is that kind of frictionless workflow where we can just start to grab and report data back in a way that you can learn from it without getting in the way, which is that's so overwhelming. [SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome. [SPEAKER_02]: But that's exactly the idea.

21:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, we are integrated into BlueBeam. [SPEAKER_02]: And we're integrated to any place where trade contractors are doing to work trades. [SPEAKER_02]: They love to do markups and annotations on BlueBeam. [SPEAKER_02]: Those markups and annotations, they're not just lines on a drawing.

21:44 [SPEAKER_02]: They're decisions somebody made about something, using them, integrating into BlueBeam, and using them as data points as part of the whole thing, like the Palestine store. [SPEAKER_02]: It just makes sense because it creates a wholesome picture for the user of the of your product. [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't setting it up for that, but I love it because again, that's earlier here.

22:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Do tell. [SPEAKER_02]: But nobody knows what he knows. [SPEAKER_02]: He told us to do it. [SPEAKER_02]: It's just Nathan. [SPEAKER_00]: I've been a blue bean fan voice as long before Jeff was there. [SPEAKER_00]: I go back to like 2011. [SPEAKER_01]: I was, too, and then was not there until recently, so, and I'll tell you, though, like it's funny you use a word called Mark up, successor, and I hear that over here on the team side, and I hear us repeating it, and I'm like, but a mark up isn't a mark up isn't a mark up.

22:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the same thing to individuals, like they are so customizable and so done, that if you look at them correctly, they're part of a workflow, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And this might be, and so when we [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny. [SPEAKER_01]: We talked enerically because it could be used in so many places, but to a trade contractor, what that means and what that can inform, right?

22:48 [SPEAKER_01]: It could be a piece off the drawing that goes back to that RFI. [SPEAKER_01]: It could be a piece off the drawing at the field level in the installation time, and that could be going to a completely separate place. [SPEAKER_01]: And then we don't do this. [SPEAKER_01]: We don't record your markup history for your whole life.

23:04 [SPEAKER_01]: You do. [SPEAKER_02]: And you don't connect that markup into [SPEAKER_02]: the specification or the contract or the submittal or the change order and closing to loop to create a true picture of what's going on. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, data ownership, right? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's so much education for trades around data ownership and just because you're using some app that the GC gave you that's really slick and easy.

23:24 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, but you don't own any of that data, like if push comes to shove, you can, it's a huge risk, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: But it's never slick and easy by the way. [SPEAKER_00]: A couple people may think it is because they haven't tried anything else. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Excel is the only other option.

23:37 [SPEAKER_00]: But I digress. [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, Jeff, what you said about the annotations and not being the same. [SPEAKER_02]: I order markups. [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's the same thing with like it's almost similar to wearing documents, right? [SPEAKER_02]: People sometimes would say, hey, what's the difference?

23:50 [SPEAKER_02]: When you ask a question when you want to query a document, you don't just ask it for the sake of, hey, I want to ask what material can I use, [SPEAKER_02]: It's the base of a decision you're going to make or a workload you're going to start or a task you need to complete. [SPEAKER_02]: So ending your solution with work querying drawings or work querying documents.

24:11 [SPEAKER_02]: doesn't get the trade contract or anywhere, honestly. [SPEAKER_02]: So when you're doing the spec review run, even if you're doing on Chad GTT, you end up with a bunch of answers, but that when it ends, how do you use that to take the next action and complete what you actually want to do?

24:25 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a wonderful component to it, especially because everything does lead to an action. [SPEAKER_01]: And you have to then try to make that action happen. [SPEAKER_01]: And I would imagine then [SPEAKER_01]: trace that action, audit that action, keep a dat. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to call it a dashboard because that's everybody thinks of like just this little thing, but a centralized location to understand that and then learning grow off of it, which again makes sense to why you would go and want to if you think about all the data and all the things going on at in the Trimble world, there's a lot of the decisions and it's funny, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to preview this because we get to do this at Trimble Dimensions I'm going to be live on stage with Josh Levy from Document Crunch and Mark Schwartz from well I guess acquired by Trimble so he's now with Trimble and Mark Schwartz from Trimble as well to really talk about how they see.

25:17 [SPEAKER_01]: these connected systems but also really focus on the connected workflows and people forget just how much data is created by Nathan what you called the the physical hardware like I can't imagine how much is locked up in there in a way to inform other things like it's not locked in there but it's just not connected to everything else we do exactly either locked in hardware or [SPEAKER_01]: It can be.

25:47 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to go live and talk about it on stage. [SPEAKER_01]: Have a live podcast. [SPEAKER_01]: So, and I think that's going to be really a really fun opportunity for us because, you know, this is the dichotomy right I met and had Josh on this show when they were I think smaller than you are right now.

26:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I got to have him. [SPEAKER_02]: How long ago was this. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I had it when he was right after he had four employees. [SPEAKER_01]: It has been a very long journey. [SPEAKER_00]: His firm yet full time. [SPEAKER_00]: He had just left just left. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I remember that.

26:18 [SPEAKER_01]: He had just taken the leap out to be a full time, you know, start up out entrepreneur. [SPEAKER_01]: Funny too that you just have the connection of being lawyers. [SPEAKER_01]: So there's more connections there than I thought before he started recording, but and now they've walked that whole journey and they're stepping into the next journey.

26:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm interested in how, you know, you look at that path and look at where you guys are going and think about the next steps for you guys. [SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's at least for us what's interesting in the document contract position is the why. [SPEAKER_02]: Doss set up his company with a mission of first of all contract management and all of that, but going into risk management.

26:56 [SPEAKER_02]: In Trimble's acquisition, I think, shows us that they took [SPEAKER_02]: their intelligence to apply it across a way larger ecosystem of products, right? [SPEAKER_02]: It just shows us and kind of validate our theory that you can use AI as the intelligence layer. [SPEAKER_02]: across multiple ecosystem product and that our theory of what is the role of AI and construction moving forward is just the right way to go about it and anything that that acquisition might away opened up a whole new world of opportunities for tax startups and first of all something to look up to not necessarily as the acquisition itself, but as your opportunities but also it opens up a gap with places to fill.

27:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Now the thought encourages tremble, [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is, and it's a huge opportunity. [SPEAKER_01]: People, I'm excited to see where they go with it and we'll have lots of talks on the stage about it, but everybody looks at these things sometimes as, you know, is it a big money play?

27:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Is a big exit play? [SPEAKER_01]: I remember talking to Josh about making these decisions. [SPEAKER_01]: And this is about an exponential play together. [SPEAKER_01]: That's where we've been saying this on the show for years. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, they're, [SPEAKER_01]: Very few companies actually IPA.

28:08 [SPEAKER_01]: We have to be honest about that. [SPEAKER_01]: Very few IPA, even more just fail. [SPEAKER_01]: So the acquisition and the bigger stronger together, we've had some stumbles along the way, but I think we're starting to see in the future here, from groups like I can say here, Bluebeam, Trimble, others that we can understand how to play well together and expand our capabilities through that type of acquisition and partnership.

28:34 [SPEAKER_00]: My two cents on the contracts are everything and contracts impact so many of the workflows. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like, again, like the more we can leverage the ability to get upstream and to identify where parts of contracts are actually implementing or impacting downstream workflows and then give them data.

28:50 [SPEAKER_00]: from your platform to now inform changes to contracts earlier on. [SPEAKER_00]: I think just yeah, there are so many opportunities to leverage the document crimes to get upstream and make the life easier for the trade contractor by just giving them all the evidence and all the data to make better arguments and change the contracts upfront.

29:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I love all this document crunch stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a big contract guy, because I'm all about how contracts impact workflows. [SPEAKER_00]: And so I guess I'm curious, yeah, like what opportunities you see or if there's anything going on with the work you're doing in how downstream workflows are impacted by those upstream contracts.

29:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure, I think that again, for looking from the trade contractors perspective, right? [SPEAKER_02]: The contractor is the king of the project. [SPEAKER_02]: It sets the ground for the entire relationship between the trade and the G.C. [SPEAKER_02]: it sets out when can we submit change orders?

29:37 [SPEAKER_02]: How are we going to be compensated for them? [SPEAKER_02]: What's the timeline for? [SPEAKER_02]: Do we have paid clause, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Do we stick to the end? [SPEAKER_02]: We have a certain scope or done? [SPEAKER_02]: Why should we stick until the end and wait for the update? [SPEAKER_02]: So all of those small things in the contract affects decisions trade would take in the field and how they do their work.

29:55 [SPEAKER_02]: So again, if we're talking about connections, understanding it, connecting it, pushing it into all of their other workflows, [SPEAKER_02]: Not just to be aware, hate is as the contract and what it says, but for example, if there's a timeline for change orders, make sure that we capture those on time document them, go back into purchasing and just submitting everything, make sure that you actually can invoice it and get your money out of it eventually.

30:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's a good distinction, because right, you've got document crunch doing what it does and expanding into where it expands. [SPEAKER_01]: But then you're actually taking that and connecting it to the places where the things are getting done at the trade contractor, maybe you're pulling back on fabrication, maybe you're speeding up on material acquisition.

30:36 [SPEAKER_01]: There's things that it's going to impact and they're not handling that part because again, they don't know which systems you're connected to and how you interact with them and how you make those decisions, right? [SPEAKER_01]: multiple jobs you're running, etc. [SPEAKER_01]: So how do you sequence those in and is there a way to move this job and that job and that's all maybe happening over in strattis and but I need to know that so I have to push that I love the focus on decision making.

31:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And given that, we're going to try something new here with you on a rapid fire question asking. [SPEAKER_01]: And I have to start with this and it's, what's the most overhyped thing in construction AI right now? [SPEAKER_01]: Takeoffs. [SPEAKER_00]: Takeoffs. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: All right.

31:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And I like the short and sweet answer. [SPEAKER_00]: Good job. [SPEAKER_00]: Follow the rules here. [SPEAKER_02]: You said fire at it, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, it's what's the most under height? [SPEAKER_02]: I think the amount of work effort and knowledge that goes into making really useful AI.

31:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Both from start up perspective, but also from the train contractors perspective. [SPEAKER_01]: What's one construction workflow that [SPEAKER_02]: how you capture the change order, how you document it, and how you close the loop, both for the purchasing and the invoicing of it. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, this could be interesting.

31:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how you're gonna answer this one. [SPEAKER_01]: Technology, what technology integration do you wanna see next? [SPEAKER_02]: I can tell you what we're pursuing next after we're pursuing the first layer of integration. [SPEAKER_02]: Our next layer of integration are all the earpiece.

32:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I would drop the ERP everywhere, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: What do you want people at dimensions walking around to ask you when they see you? [SPEAKER_02]: easy how can I start using tell us today. [SPEAKER_01]: I think first they have we have to say if you're a trade contractor then ask that question.

32:24 [SPEAKER_01]: You can ask it if you're not a trader. [SPEAKER_01]: If you're a G.C. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, but you know, I don't want to ask everybody. [SPEAKER_02]: I still want people to ask that. [SPEAKER_01]: Tell us in three years. [SPEAKER_01]: What does it become? [SPEAKER_02]: The AMI infrastructure for trade contractors when you think about software for trade, you think, tell us.

32:40 [SPEAKER_01]: That was the rapid fire she made it through. [SPEAKER_00]: That was impressive. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: Especially for our first one. [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to switch and give people some, where are they going to find you? [SPEAKER_01]: So you're going to be at the show, right?

32:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to be at the dimensions. [SPEAKER_02]: We are finalists at the 0 to 60 challenge. [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to pitching on the large stage. [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have a booth at the startup alley. [SPEAKER_02]: And also I'm lucky enough to join a couple of roundtable discussions with Brooks Twerk from the construction solution.

33:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what's going to be interesting about the event is Nathan, we're going to see a lot of these new startups, the established ERPs, you know, the established tools and systems at Trimble all coming together to have round table discussions to have sessions. [SPEAKER_01]: There's also deep training, so I mean, I'm really excited to see all of this come together.

33:31 [SPEAKER_00]: What are you excited about? [SPEAKER_00]: That's what's tough. [SPEAKER_00]: You've got all the excitement and all the kind of flash of the expo hall and all the tech and all the hardware that's out there. [SPEAKER_00]: If you ask me, the values in those 700 sessions and if you've ever been in the sands and all the escalators up and down, it's amazing how many sessions you can fit [SPEAKER_00]: in those three days, go through those sessions, find the ones that are relative to your industry to your topics that are in sync to you.

33:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I think especially the panel discussions where you get to hear from multiple perspectives on some of these topics, because it's all about the nuance of trying to understand, okay, how do I need to think about all of this AI stuff and where it fits for me? [SPEAKER_00]: And there isn't one right answer for everyone.

34:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's kind of on their journey and the more we hear other people's stories, the more we can continue on ours. [SPEAKER_01]: You're focused on that learning and, you know, I'm excited about the learning as well, but Trimble also knows how to throw a good time from what I hear, right?

34:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in there, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: That goes so. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying not to rub that in for those that can't go, although they should be going. [SPEAKER_00]: She should be going. [SPEAKER_02]: She should be going. [SPEAKER_02]: They can still go, there's still time. [SPEAKER_02]: But after there's a whole competition going on in between vendors in the Trimble marketplace on who's going to get to host like the sweet and the party, there is a bunch of things that I'm excited for.

34:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there is a competition going on between the different vendors that are who's going to host the suite and have the special party you can learn more about it. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't worry. [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to drop it all in the show notes, but you can check it out. [SPEAKER_01]: Why have some special links to for listeners.

34:54 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not sold out. [SPEAKER_01]: It's you can still go. [SPEAKER_01]: We do want to see you there. [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, that's why we're doing this is to encourage people to show up because again, that's the [SPEAKER_01]: the key to this. [SPEAKER_01]: It pellys is doing this. [SPEAKER_01]: Trimble is doing this.

35:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we've got hardware. [SPEAKER_01]: We've got software. [SPEAKER_01]: We've got all of that. [SPEAKER_01]: It's useless without the connecting of people, right? [SPEAKER_01]: We talk about this over and over. [SPEAKER_01]: But it's the relationships that happen in this industry that really drive it forward, right?

35:20 [SPEAKER_01]: We want them to be informed by the data that we have. [SPEAKER_01]: We want them to be connected and easier to use. [SPEAKER_01]: But we're not getting rid of the relationships. [SPEAKER_01]: And in fact, we want [SPEAKER_01]: to use it to strengthen them, right? [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm using Pelis correctly, are using Trimble Connect correctly, are I'm using Document Crunch correctly?

35:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm connecting. [SPEAKER_01]: with my customers or those that I am their customer and we're building better relationships we're executing better. [SPEAKER_01]: In the end, we can execute projects better this way if we're all connected and then we've built those relationships of trust. [SPEAKER_01]: Right, there we say that construction is a relationship business but honestly, it's a trust business and it's more and more now building a trust layer [SPEAKER_01]: really crazy work going ahead because I mean you're sitting there watching it, the work, the construction industry is building right now is insane.

36:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's interesting because yeah it's industry attack but also tech to tech. [SPEAKER_00]: I think even this year is the first Trimble developer summit in conjunction with Trimble Dimensions. [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean again just one more example of how continuing to build trust these relationships is how we're going to move forward.

36:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, if you really dig into it too, right Nathan, this connects all the way back. [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to connect all of our things together because it connects back to the construction progress coalition. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: We Trimble is a huge sponsor of what we do with the construction progress coalition.

36:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So is blue beam a huge sponsor of what we do. [SPEAKER_01]: These teams are investing money in groups that can really bring people together. [SPEAKER_01]: to then solve real world problems, right? [SPEAKER_01]: That's what we do there at the construction progress coalition at the AEC integration summit.

36:58 [SPEAKER_01]: We're bringing some of that with us new logo. [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, if you guys haven't seen it, we're showing off a new logo. [SPEAKER_01]: So you have to go to Trimbo's site and check out the media sponsors to see it and see if you can tell us what we've changed. [SPEAKER_01]: on that one.

37:12 [SPEAKER_01]: If you see me at the show and you know what we've changed, come and talk to me about it. [SPEAKER_01]: There might be some swag in it for you. [SPEAKER_01]: And go check out Yale and the team and talk to them while you're there. [SPEAKER_01]: And everybody else that's there again, do a little bit of learning, a little bit of shopping.

37:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And let's have a little bit of fun while we're there, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Rock on. [SPEAKER_01]: Yale before we let everybody go, let everybody know where they can go find out more about you if they're not going to be a Trimble Dimensions. [SPEAKER_01]: Where can they find out more about you?

37:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Palace.ai and I'm sure you're going to put the link in the episodes comments. [SPEAKER_01]: Nathan, what are you going to end it this way? [SPEAKER_01]: What are you excited about? [SPEAKER_01]: What's your number one thing you're excited about for dimensions? [SPEAKER_00]: Just the relationships, you know, I think it's a newer group there where it's a lot more new faces.

37:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm always excited to meet new folks and talk about interoperability and connecting data to change the world. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm jazzed already. [SPEAKER_00]: Wanted to be [SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm getting really hyped up for it too and I'm going to drop that mine is I'm really excited to have Josh Levy and Mark Swartz on the stage and really help articulate what I've seen from this side and I think you know really get the industry to understand where they're building and why they're building it and why it's important now.

38:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, I also want to check off that another continent in the trade world in the industry event worlds. [SPEAKER_01]: I want to [SPEAKER_01]: and hopefully bring some clarity of the folks that listen to the show on where these things are headed and why they're important to pay attention to.

38:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you so much and again it's been too long. [SPEAKER_01]: This won't be the only one. [SPEAKER_01]: We'll bring you back on. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, y'all, thank you for being here today. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Nathan. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Jack. [SPEAKER_00]: Nathan Wood, always great to have you, my man.

38:56 [SPEAKER_00]: We need you more of these. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's keep going. [SPEAKER_00]: These give me energy. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, excited to see more of this and see everyone in Vegas. [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you for tuning in today to geek out for our interview with Y'all Hanan. [SPEAKER_01]: To read all our new stories, learn more about our guests in the list of the show, visit the contentcrew.com.

39:12 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the contentcrew signing out. [SPEAKER_01]: Until next time, enjoy the ride and geek out.