Reproduce Disciples: The Simple Two-on-One Model That Scales | Ashlee & Kerry Cox

0:00 Hey everybody, welcome back to the Disciple Makers podcast. Today we are excited to hear from Ashley Katazun and Kerry Cox on a simple, effective and reproducible model. Let's take a listen. It's a privilege to get to present with my older sister, Ashley. Okay, not older. I'm five years younger and better looking.

0:31 All right, so she just called me ugly. All right, so real quickly, I just want to tell you, Ashley and I have been really fortunate. We got to grow up, pretty much grow up on a church plant together. And then in 2004, we moved from that church plant that we grew up on, watched the church grow from like 20 people in a basement to like 600 people who were just unchurched.

0:50 You know, there were no restoration movement background, really in almost any of those members of the church. And then in 2004, we moved over to the Missouri side of the River of St. Louis and planted the Crossings Church. And since then, we've been really fortunate to see God work in a lot of really cool ways.

1:05 We've seen God, again, start reaching a ton of unchurched people and seeing people go from completely lost, disconnected from God, to being people who have been discipled and who are now walking with Christ. And we could tell you stories all day long. I wish we had time to do that because we have the coolest stories.

1:21 But you know, it's just really amazing to see how God has worked and to see that church grow and then to plant three more churches and then get to partner with two other church plants and to see those plants go and to watch, again, this really unchurched group of people and also young. If you walk into the Crossings, you're going to look at a church where, you know, in a time where people are saying young people don't want a relation with God, you come into our church and there's like no white hair hardly, except for the old guy and the old lady back there, which are our parents.

1:48 We are growing in that area, but you look around and 65% of our church is under the age of 25. And God is just doing some really cool things in these young people's lives and watching them being discipled. And I think that really does come from this church-wide awareness of what we are trying to do as a church.

2:06 One of the things that Bobby talked to me about when he came up to visit one time, he's like, Kerry, whatever you do, hold on to the culture that you guys have. And I think if you're going to have, if you're going to take any of these things that we talk about, whether it be this or trust and follow or any of these things, and you're going to pull them into the church, it has to be a part of the culture of your church and it has to permeate everything you do.

2:26 And for us, when I look at the Crossings, there is a very clear vision. We have a vision statement on the wall and that vision statement fits in with the methods and the resources that we're talking to you today about. And so God has taken that vision and he's doing really amazing things with it. There's a biblical, reproducible model that I think that everybody in our church body can follow.

2:46 And you're going to get to hear a little bit about what I mean when I say everybody. I mean everybody in our church follows this same thing. And we are fortunate being a church plant, right? We're on a speedboat. We're not trying to turn the church around at a barge. So some of this stuff is going to be a little different for some of you, but I think it's all reproducible and all usable.

3:04 Yeah. And based off of that vision, the goal was really clear, to help people know and love God and bring others into a relationship with him over and over and over again, right? The ultimate goal here is to reproduce disciples. God wants people to have an eternity with him. I want people to be saved and I want people to have a good life.

3:22 And this is the heart and the goal of the mission, right? Choosing to live in obedience and gratitude to a king who died for us and with some of his last words said, hey, go seek and save the lost. And to really love the way that he did. And that can't be lost on us. I mean, aren't you tired of losing people to the world?

3:41 Aren't we tired of watching people struggle and die apart from him? And that's why you're here today, right? But that should do something that should motivate us and it should motivate us to action. And the more on mission, the better for the kingdom, right? And better for the world. In John 15, eight, it says, this is to my father's glory that you do what, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

4:06 And awareness to the mission or to having that goal helps to create disciples who will be on mission and are going to bear fruit. So with that being said, there are some steps that we kind of utilize from here and we're going to kind of try to walk you through those in 16 minutes. All right. So the first one is this, like, you know, if you're going to, if you're going to have a discipleship model that is going to reproduce, the first thing you have to do is you have to provide opportunities for people to reach out.

4:30 You know, you've got to find these opportunities. And the crossings, we do that in a lot of ways. We really do emphasize relational discipleship and just going about this in everyday life and getting to know someone, developing a relationship with them, getting involved in their lives or where there's intimacy and connection in those lives.

4:45 But we also provide easy opportunities for that to take place, especially in our, in our college ministry, our team ministry. We do cross chats, what we call cross chats, and they're, they're designed very to look at the Bible, but they're not really a Bible study. It's more about life application because we believe part of the problem with why younger people don't want to go to churches and don't want to get connected as they look at the Bible as it's something that's antiquated, has nothing to do with their lives.

5:11 So what we do is we try to give them opportunities where they get to come and they get to see the Bible can be put to use in their everyday life. And the lessons are written very differently than most Bible studies are, but they're easy to invite to because the other college students are like, that's been good for me.

5:24 And we do a lot of big events and things like that. And the church does those as well, but we are providing opportunities. But to be quite honest with all of y'all, nothing that you hear today, and I know Josh said this basically earlier as well. Nothing you're going to hear, no resource, no discipleship model you're going to be given is going to work and, and you're not going to just transplant it.

5:43 That's why when we try to take cell churches and bring it here, it didn't work. And we try to take what Shabankay's doing and we try to sub-plan it here and it doesn't work and we can't figure out why. It's not really an issue of any of those models being screwed up. What the, what's screwed up most times is our hearts and the hearts of our churches.

5:58 And it's a heart problem. It's a love issue. You know, I tell people all the time, well, if, if I had the tools and I had this or that, I'm like, listen, if you couldn't swim and your child was drowning, would you jump in that water? Yes. You would still jump in that water. Why? Because you love your kids so much.

6:12 You would do whatever it took to save them in spite of your fear, in spite of your ability, in spite of your understanding how to swim, you're going to jump in the water because you do that because you love them. And the real issue here is we've got to be people who love people and our people have to be people who love the lost.

6:28 Perfect love drives out fear. I think that's said somewhere in a book. And you know, it's one of those things where if you deeply love people, you're going to do that. And you're going to look for opportunities to reach out to people. As a church, we try to provide them, but we really train our people to look for those out of love, to look for those out of their desire, to see hurt people, find a healing in a relationship with God.

6:49 Yeah. So in that next step, after you've kind of got them into something or if you've kind of established that relationship and reaching out, you're going to invite them into a personal Bible study. So as we reach out, as they come to that cross chat or to that Sunday service or that time throughout the week where we're grabbing dinner and trying to be intentional with them, our next thought, our next step or our process that goes on in our mind is asking them, you know, to another level, hey, would you like to sit down and look at the Bible more closely with me?

7:14 You know, with one other person? I'm kind of going to get into that later. But why are personal Bible studies our next step and foundational to our model? Because I think it's difficult, right, to fully commit to something that you don't understand or has not been scripturally explained to you. And that happens quite a bit, it seems.

7:32 In Acts chapter 2, Peter is addressing an audience and he says, fellow Jews and all of you in Jerusalem, let me explain this. This is what was spoken by the prophet Joel. He's addressing many of whom knew of the prophets, right? Knew of prophecy, knew of God's divine power and authority. They knew to a degree and understood the concept of covenant and sacrifice.

7:53 So when Peter quotes Joel, he's connecting pre-existing dots in their minds, right? But we are living and addressing a post-Christian society. So most of our audience is not being versed in knowing scripture or understanding covenant and an authority from God in the day to day, right? And so we tend to give, I think the sad thing with that is, we tend to give them less of an explanation or understanding than even Peter.

8:18 So as an example, I come from a basketball family. We love basketball. And I see it kind of like this, say you're watching a game, right? And you are privileged enough to be a 90s kid and you get to watch the GOAT play, right? So you're watching and it's unquestionable Michael Jordan, right? So you're watching it, thank you.

8:35 And it's amazing, you know, and you watch him and you're like, I can do that. I can do all that. And I want to be all of that, right? And so you just are like, this is amazing. And so you show up to a basketball practice, right? And you show up and then you realize, what do you mean 6 a.m. basketball practice?

8:51 What do you mean two-a-days? What do you, what's a suicide? I got to do that every time I miss a layup? You know, and you, what do you mean I have to work with a team that I don't naturally connect with? What does that mean? And you might realize really quickly that you like the idea of the titles and all the things better than the reality, right?

9:09 It looks great, but in the hype, you didn't quite realize the cost or the title or all the work that they put into it to get there. And we often see this in a really coming into a relationship with God, like, wait, I like the idea, but I didn't really know what it meant. You know, in the parable of the sower, some received the word with joy, right?

9:27 But they had no root. So when trouble came, they fell away. When a decision is purely emotional, it can be so fragile. We know this, right? Emotions fade, but truth holds. So when difficulty hits, it becomes much easier for people to walk away. And in the excitement, I think we mean well, you know, in the excitement of like, I want to be a disciple, I want to get baptized, or I want to be a Christian.

9:47 We mean well. They mean well. But by this time, I think by, or I think if we look at the amount of people who leave our faith rather quickly or stay within the church, you know, and stay within a faith that aren't reproducing or becoming stagnant or lukewarm, I think it's worth asking if we, the church, are laying the foundation strong enough from the get-go and from the beginning.

10:08 And Jesus laid out that cost very clearly, because what does it say? They walked away sad. They weren't willing to pay it. So it has to be more than a feeling or a moment. And that's why the studies for us are an important model for the mission. The question we have is, are we helping them clearly see what this commitment will ask of them for the entirety of their life?

10:30 Will they live saved and will they live bearing fruit? And this series, the studies, the series that Kerry's going to talk about is going to help with that. So what does that look like? I also think it's important that what Ashley's saying is to realize, again, we're talking about dealing with taking people from being unchurched or disconnected with God into a saved right relation with God, into a discipleship life that is going to last their entire lives, right?

10:53 And so when we do these studies, so we study these with everybody that comes into the church that's brand new, but also if someone wants to come join the crossings who already has a relationship with God, we tell them very upfront. You can do that. We love you. We want you here, but you need to go through these studies, not because we think you need to be rebaptized or you're not saved or any of those things, but you need to understand what we believe the Bible teaches about these things and what it says about discipleship.

11:14 Because if you can't be on that same page, there's lots of other churches in the city that will love you. And you're going to do great. And this isn't going to be the place for you. And so we want to make sure that we keep that culture. And so everybody who comes to the crossings goes through these studies, whether they have a relationship with God or not.

11:29 And so it's important for us to do that. The studies that we go through, for some of you that will be a little familiar, because there's been other study series that are similar, but this has been pretty heavily reworked, I think, to really help kind of form and follow the mission of what Jesus meant when he meant making disciples.

11:46 So we do a seeking God study. It's really simple. It's like, hey, you need to be seeking God, putting God above all else. And this is what it looks like in your life. And then we study the word with people because we believe that, look, if you're going to ask them to commit to something, they need to understand when they're looking at the word of God, why the word of God is important, where it comes from, why they should think about building a life off of what the Bible says.

12:09 And if they don't understand that, it becomes difficult for them to grasp that. Then we talk about sin and what sin does to your lives and why they're in need of a relationship with God. We talk about the cross and what the cross did and what Jesus did on that cross that allowed them to have the opportunity to have a right relationship with him.

12:27 And then we study with them about discipleship after that. The reason for that is, is that, listen, you're going to be asking someone to give their lives to Jesus and to drop everything to die to themselves for him. They need to understand what sin did to them and then what Jesus did for them before you ask them to become disciples because they need to understand this is what God has done for you.

12:44 Now, this is what he's asking of you. Because we live in a culture where a lot of Christians will tell you Jesus doesn't really expect you to do anything. Pretty much what most churches lead people to believe today is you have to have an intellectual belief in your head that he exists. And if you do, and if you can say that Jesus was his son, then you're good with God.

13:00 And that's just not a very scriptural take. And so we want them to understand what it actually means to die to themselves, to be a disciple. And then we study repentance and baptism with them and say, all right, now that you understand this, are you ready to repent? Are you ready to die to yourself, be baptized into Christ, be raised to a new life where your sins are washed away and you received the gift of the spirit.

13:18 And so we lay all of those things out with them. And then we sit down with them if they want to be baptized and we count the cost with them. Are you sure about this? You know, the Bible says you shouldn't go up against another army with 10,000 soldiers when you have this many children. You shouldn't start building a house if you don't have the ability to finish it.

13:35 Are you sure this is what you want to do with the rest of your life? Because that's what you're committing to. You're committing to giving Christ everything to dying to yourself completely. And we are very, very straightforward in these studies, guys. We're very straightforward, you know, and our concern is not getting someone through these studies.

13:54 Our concern is not getting someone in the water. You know, one of our sayings that we like to say is it's about the death. It's not about the dunk. You know, it's not about getting them under that water. It's about their ability to see what God has done for them, dying to themselves and allowing themselves to be raised to a new life in Christ.

14:09 And we want them to understand exactly what a life of discipleship looks like before we go throwing them in the baptistry. And I do think a lot of times we'll have baptisms and churches will have baptisms and they'll have all these baptisms and those people half the time or more have no idea what they really just did.

14:27 That's problematic. That's problematic. And so we want to make sure they really understand what discipleship looks like. And again, remembering these people are coming from a lot of times no understanding of what it looks like at all. And I know that sounds like a lot as far as the studies go. And you might look at that and be like, this isn't simple.

14:46 It is simple. We have high schoolers who lead these studies and are leading their friends to Jesus. We have college students who are doing this. And Ashley is going to talk about exactly, you know, kind of our method of going through these studies, which will help you to see how we're able to get all of those people on board.

15:00 And even like I said, high schoolers, even some junior hires are starting to learn how to lead these studies and can lead their friends to these studies. So it is very simple. It's very reproducible, but it's not, it's not light in a sense, I guess is how I would say it. It's a, we're dealing with something serious.

15:17 We need to deal with it seriously. Yeah. So our study method, it kind of looks like this. You have one person seeking, right? The person coming into this, right? That doesn't maybe have that relationship with God. You have one person leading, and then you have one person that is learning and training within that.

15:32 All are building a relationship and all of this is going to create and get that reproducible cycle that we're looking for, right? So if I could give you just like a life example, I'm a visual person, so I don't know if this will help or not. My youth leader, Colleen, when I was in junior high and my mom studied, went through a set of studies with me and I became a, I became a disciple.

15:53 So fast forward, I studied with my daughter and another youth leader, her name's Hattie. Hattie became a disciple. So Hattie invited a friend, invites a friend, and she's, she ends up asking her friend to study the Bible with her, right? So now we together, Hattie and I are studying the Bible with her friend as I'm leading the studies.

16:13 She's taking notes, she's kind of offering like that peer like influence and that relationship is getting built. The next time, however, once her friend becomes a disciple, we begin to shift in this, right? So as Hattie invites maybe a new friend and she asked that friend, hey, do you want to study the Bible with me?

16:29 Well, guess who's going to sit in on this study this time? The friend who just became a disciple. So now, now Hattie's taking the lead role of kind of guiding these studies, and then you have the friend, the new disciple, sitting in, training, taking notes, you know, learning and building a relationship with that new person.

16:46 Does that kind of make sense? So that cycle kind of continues, it's like lead, train, send, and repeat. And so what it kind of looked like in different various ways for us, so as I just said with my daughter and I, you have my mom to Colleen, me to Hattie, Hattie to Jocelyn. Now these are all many unchurched at this point, right?

17:05 Jocelyn to Sam, and now Sam, her friend, is sitting in on current studies and training to learn how to do these studies herself. Now it's not always like a once said and done, right? Like we just did one study and now I can lead all these. There's more training and things that goes into that, but that's what it looks like.

17:22 My son Malachi, he reached out to his friend, his name's Eli, just this last year, senior year basketball. And Eli comes from like a family with no church, you know, no church background, no history like that, and decided to become a Christian. And I was thinking about the kind of the evolution of what that's looked like with Eli.

17:40 And so to him, I was thinking, how does that kind of work? And so you have Robert, who studied with Carrie, who studied with my husband now, RJ, RJ studies with Malachi, Malachi studied with Eli, Eli invited his little brother, Tristan, who's now in high school. He's sitting in on studies, Tristan became a follower, and now their grandpa went back and sat in on a study, started studying with Robert.

18:08 So it's like, kind of went like full circle. So grandpa just became a disciple not long back, and mom is getting ready to sit down and do studies with my friend back here in the corner, Shante, you know? And so, and then their sister has studied with Hattie. So I know this is like, but like, you can kind of see it, right?

18:25 Like there is this ongoing cycle that is reproduced, but it's not just left at the hands of one. We're teaching the next generations to grab ahold of this and do it in an effective way. And we're very intentional with that. Like, so for instance, when I sit down and study the Bible with somebody, and I'm like, hey, like, I know that my buddy TC here invited you, and I'm going to lead this study because TC is trying to learn how to study the Bible with people so he can teach people what it means to be a disciple.

18:51 And I said, we tell them from the very first study on, but the goal is eventually you'll be in TC's seat and you're going to be learning to do what we're doing with you. And then TC will be in this seat. And then after that, the goal is that you'll be in this seat with a friend that you studied with who is learning.

19:04 And, you know, and we're very intentional and we start dreaming for them and casting a vision for them of what it means to be a disciple maker before they're even disciples. So we're saying, hey, you're not a disciple yet, but you can be a disciple maker and God can use you to show someone else exactly.

19:21 So from the very start, there's an understanding of what that looks like. And we do have an ongoing thing to make sure that people are being discipled. Everyone at the crossings, all of our members are members of a small group. We are very upfront with people. We tell them if you want to be a member of the crossings, you need to understand the Bible says that we are going to be held accountable for the way that we lead you.

19:39 So if you're going to go to church here, you're going to be in a small group. And we pick our leadership, sit down, we formulate those small groups every year, like a lot of people have already talked about. Those groups do not continue on very long after a year to two years. If they're not reproducing, we will bust those groups up if they grow and are healthy and divide and are making disciples and they're growing on their own.

19:59 We don't need to touch them. We're like, keep doing your thing. But if not, we're like, no, this group needs to be reformulated so that we can help you grow. So the goal of those small groups is to do exactly what Jesus said. He says, go and make disciples. And then you continue by teaching them to obey everything I've commanded you always.

20:15 That's part of discipleship, guys. That's what our small groups do. And so we have all these resources available. Like we have the studies, we have training videos for the studies. And if you have any questions, man, we would love to, we would love to help. I know for us, sometimes we felt like an island and getting connection and getting help in discipleship was difficult.

20:34 And we don't want that to be the case for anybody ever. So if we can ever do anything to help you implement any of these things that would be beneficial to your church, please contact us because we would love to do that. And there we go. Yeah. Okay. So I have some questions for you. It sounds to me like, fill in this gap.

20:57 It sounds to me like a lot of people in your church know how to do these studies and they automatically do it. How do you get that culture? I think that culture just comes from the way we do the studies and the dreaming that we do for people. And we do talk, we talk a lot about disciple making, especially in our small groups.

21:16 So if like, for instance, my son, when he took over a small group and was leading a small group, he got all of his guys like, we're going to chain these studies. So they got our study book and they go through and they basically chain. So this, you know, you go to the first verse of the study and then you're at second verse and he walked down through and helped chain all of that.

21:32 But as he's doing the chaining with them, he's walking them through how to do the studies. And he's like, you need to know this because you're going to reach out to somebody and you're going to be the one studying with them. And so there's, there's training that goes on all the time that helps fill those gaps.

21:44 And it's a great culture when, as you mentioned, I've been at your church, it's beautiful. By the way, one of the great things about their church is it's very racially diverse as well. You live fairly close to Ferguson, correct? And you've been able to crack the code on the racial diversity thing, which is pretty awesome.

22:04 So somebody comes to your church, they would come because of relationships. You've taught your people to cultivate relationships so that they invite people to church out of that. How do you, like, how's that communicated? How does that become part of the culture? I mean, I think some of that is just like the everyday discipling process, you know?

22:26 So I think about just even at home or with a teenage, I work with the teenagers, you know, and I think this is just comes from day to day life interactions that I have with them. When I'm doing life with them, it presents so many opportunities to make reminders, right? So when I'm talking to them, I'm like, hey, who are you in class with?

22:43 What's going on with that person? Are you inviting them to things? Are you reaching them? Because remember that you were lost once too, and so were they, and they're going through something. So I think there is just this everyday, I think, ability to remind the people that you disciple and the people within your body and your church, this has always been the mission.

23:02 And I think sometimes we can just get caught up in the idea of programs and things, but the heart of it, like, are we, are we, do we care enough to see and reminding them to do just that and utilizing the steps that we were talking about, having opportunities to hang out with them, to have events, to do things from there that can lead to those, you know, I just think when you get a culture like what you've got, there's been a lot of intentionality to develop a culture where people naturally think that, you know, the church has a culture.

23:32 There's the key expression. This is how we do it around here. And like when everybody kind of get, Oh yeah, that's, that's how we do it around here. You were going to say something. I was just going to say like, you know, you're kind of along with what Ashley was saying. I just started working with our adult ministry.

23:47 So I'm, I'm preaching a half the time now and I'm, I'm working with the adult small groups. I've done campus for 30 years, but I got in this new adult group and one of the adult guys was like talking in our group and he's like, I went out with Kerry the other day and every person he talked to, he was talking to them about church.

24:01 And I was like, yeah. And he was like, and he was like, I want to do that for other people. And I think if you go out with most of our leaders and these young disciples are going out with older disciples, they're just seeing it. They're like, you talk to everybody about God and about church and about, and they're like, yeah.

24:16 And so it's that culture just keeps getting, you know, replaced over and over again because they're just seeing it from older matured. Yeah. It's a beautiful thing when you, when you have that. I think you showed on the screen, there are six studies. So you're two on one model, which is again, if I'm leading it, I have an apprentice and then I have a person that I'm teaching about Jesus.

24:38 Is it, are they all the same? Just six lessons? There are times when we throw in some other ones. So like, for instance, like if someone gets through discipleship and they're still not acting like a disciple, like we have one that we'll do called the Lordship Study and be like, look, you're not really understanding what it means to make Jesus Lord.

24:53 You're not really being a disciple. Like, let's talk about what that looks like. Or if someone's not maybe understanding how important church is, we'll do a church study with them. So it's not, it's not a one size fits all, but I would say generally speaking, that's the set. And we do have a box full though.

25:08 So if anybody wants one, then we can get some. Yeah. I don't know if you caught that, but Kerry and Ashley have a box of their studies. So if you want to get one from them, I would encourage you to do that actually. I think it's pretty good material. So one of the things that you're also able to do is not only does somebody study with me and I learn the material, but then I become an apprentice and I learn the material and then I teach it.

25:37 And of course I learned the material. So the average person is going to go through it three times in the process, at least three times, maybe more, which what that does is it really embeds the theology and the beliefs in your mind. Comment maybe on that. I feel like I say that a lot. Sometimes you're going through the study for the sake of the person that clearly needs a relationship with God altogether, is lost, but every time you're re-challenged.

26:03 And that's how I feel when I sit down and do it each time. Don't forget you're learning something, but this is a great reminder to you what you died to of the cost that you said that you were going to live up to. And so I think it is very refreshing. And again, it goes back to that, keeping them on mission.

26:19 How do you sit through these studies and not go, I'm supposed to continue doing this? Like, oh yeah. Like there's a light bulb again. You know? So I think that can be. And also sometimes like with like when you have a baby Christian and they are unchurched, they have all these unchurched friends. So sometimes like right now in the campus history and in my son's group, for instance, there's a couple of guys who are in three or four studies.

26:41 So they're sitting in learning how to do that study on three or four studies. And so they've done it multiple times before they ever even lead their first study because they're being so intentional. Yeah. I will say too often, like, you know, as I had like Hattie do them, when she led her first set, I sat in on that so I could help, you know, kind of better teach and evaluate like, hey, what, you know, are you missing some things here?

27:03 You know, just making sure that it's done, you know, maybe a little bit more thoroughly, just the train, the extra training. And then after I kind of get to watch the kids go through that or lead that, then I'm like, all right, they've, they've got, you know, they've got this and then they can bring in that next, you know, cycle, that next generation.

27:17 It really creates people who have been discipled in the basics really well. And so they're much more stable and committed to what they know, what they believe and what they follow. It's a great job. Can I say one thing? Yes. The cool thing about a culture like this, when you build it, is that like, you know, I've taught them a lot of conferences recently where I'm teaching on reaching the next generation.

27:42 And I asked the crowd, are you here because you want to learn how to reach the unchurched generation outside of your doors? Are you here because you've lost your kid, your grandkid, your niece, your nephew to the world? Most of the people come to my class are people who lost that. When you create this culture, you don't lose that.

27:56 Like, listen, my kids are imperfect. Her kids are imperfect. But I have a 25 year old, a 22 year old and a 16 year old. All of them are heavily involved in ministry. All of them are disciples. All of them are leading studies. All of them are, she's has the same thing and, and we're not losing our kids to the world because we're giving them something incredible to be a part of.

28:15 And so they're not bailing. And so that's, you know, it's just another added benefit to being a part of a disciple making culture that you're building something the next generation, the next generation of disciples already want to be a part of. Yeah. And the best thing you can do is get the focus off of yourself.

28:29 So you get your kid on mission, you know, it changes the game. I think it keeps them online. It's kind of cool to hear you guys talking that way. And to be aware that your parents I think are there as well. Yeah. Good to see Robert back there. Yeah. Well, good stuff. Thank you. We have some questions we want you guys to process through it and then we'll, by the way, in this good stuff.

28:54 Okay. I hate to break up all these great conversations. I wanted to describe where we've been and we have one more session left where we're going to go so that you can know about it, be encouraged by it. So we began with the commitment to be disciples who make disciples. Josh started it off with Ralph talking about be disciples who make disciples.

29:21 Then the second session we talked about the importance of making disciple makers, especially if you're in leadership, if you're privileged to be in leadership in a church, your job isn't just to make disciples, but to make disciple makers because of course you expand the ministry of the church, you reach more people and more and more people get to participate in the mission of Jesus.

29:47 In the session that we just have been through now, Carl and Alicia shared their simple, effective, reproducible model. By the way, it can be simple without being simplistic, right? Both of these models are actually on the one hand they're simple, but they're not simplistic, but they're easy to follow.

30:07 The idea is once you've been through it, you can go through it with somebody else. And now we're going to bring the whole conversation together by talking about new research where we've identified churches that are most effective at making disciples as churches. So these are churches that have developed a culture of disciple making.

30:32 We're going to talk about the problem that North America, most of our churches are not disciple making churches. Then we're going to talk about this new research on creating churches that focus on disciple making. And then we're going to give you some practical application of that. All right? So we'll start up in about five minutes.

30:56 Thank you guys so much for tuning in this week to this episode of the Disciple Makers Podcast. We hope the content has been super helpful. Stay tuned for more incredible content for you and your church. Check us out at www.discipleship.org for more great content.