The Impact Pastors Can Make on Marketplace Leaders

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Disciplemakers podcast. Today we are featuring another incredible lion's share track session entitled the impact pastors can make on marketplace leaders. Records of 90% of people in your congregation who are employed work in the marketplace. As pastors, we can either view these leaders simply as those who attend church and give faithfully or we can intentionally disciple them in the ways of God.

In this session, you're going to hear from Dr. Greg Campbell, who served for many years at executive levels in federal law enforcement, as he shares the powerful impacts his pastor had on his life and his calling. Let's take a listen. Thank you, Dave. Appreciate it. First of all, thank you all for coming to the session and giving of your time to be here.

I do come with a warning sign. I say it every time I speak, y'all going to think this man been on six cups of coffee. I've only had one, but once I get going, I get going. So I just, just matter of fact, I grew up in the Los Angeles area and we didn't go on a whole lot of vacations, but we would drive places, you know, we didn't go on airplanes, but we would drive places.

And I thought we went halfway across the country, but one of the places we would go from Los Angeles is to San Diego to SeaWorld. And when you go to SeaWorld, there's no rides there. So you would just go to shows. And when you went to see the wells, you want to be in the first rows and they call that the splash zone.

So Naomi, you were in the splash zone. No, that doesn't mean I'm going to be spitting on you, but I'll just be moving and like just the energy. So I'll just share that with you as I share. So we're just going to talk about, Dave asked me to share a little bit about how pastors can impact the marketplace.

So growing up in the inner city of LA, growing up in a church that was predominantly individuals from our city, very close knit. Most of my family all went to the same church. And here's how we saw missions at that church. Somebody didn't have enough money to pay their light bill and they would pass around a basket, call it the mission offer, and they would help them pay.

I didn't know missions work was stuff that you go out into other countries and other places and other communities and serve. I grew up thinking missions was stuff that you did inside the church to your own people who grew up in the church. Until I became a federal agent, moved halfway, I shouldn't say halfway, moved from Los Angeles to San Francisco and met my mentor, who I will share with you all today, who became my pastor, my mentor, my disciple, and then taught me how to disciple others.

So I'll talk about that as we go forward. I grew up in a family of teachers. My wife is a teacher. My daughter is a teacher. I teach at the doctoral level, doctoral students. So the teacher in me, you all will spend the last two days and today listening to people talk. I love to talk to those visual learners and let you see some of my story as well.

So this next video that I'm going to show is just a little bit about my story, give you a little bit about my background. Why is that important when it comes to, I think, mentoring or discipleship is everybody in this room has a story. We all come with different history, belief systems, values, blind spots, and we come to a church in that state.

Some of us come and we're whole and some of us come and we're broken. You know, I was doing, I'm doing some research now as my brother and I are working on a book and we learned that 65% of people who attend churches actually have mental health issues. So you're dealing, you don't know who you're dealing with when you start to disciple someone.

So it's really about how do you build relationship? And actually before you build relationship, I actually believe you need to build trust. So I say it this way, results move at the speed of relationships, but relationships move at the speed of trust. Trust is so critical. So watch this, this clip of sort of my upbringing to give you a visual picture.

My road started out at Compton, California, home of Venus and Serena Williams, home of some of the most renowned rappers that ever lived, but also home of the Crips and Blood Gang. I've been knocked down. Having at least six family members, serving 25 years of life in California prisons, not one family member ever graduated from college, I had to make a choice.

Go down their road or choose my own road. I've made my choice. I chose my own road. I am now Dr. Gregory Campbell. I've been knocked down, but not destroyed. So I did grow up in the inner city of Los Angeles, specifically Compton, California. And as I was growing up, I didn't have one person in my family that had graduated from college.

So not one Uncle Gary, Aunt Naomi, not one person that had ever graduated from college. So I literally didn't have that person that I could see with my eyes or that role model that I could say, I want to be like that person. And so that's important when you start to build relationship and think about discipleship to me.

When you start thinking about discipleship, you start thinking about discipling individuals with the word of God. But when you build relationship with people, I don't know of anyone that can truly disciple without getting to know the person, the personal side of that person, building trust, building relationship, then you have the opportunity to disciple or pour into their lives.

So I show that video. I had six family members serving 25 years of their life in California prisons. Up until about six months ago, one of them got out. He was the one family member that had never gotten in trouble. And he actually went to prison for a murder that his brother committed. And he served over 25 years for a crime he did not commit.

And it was at a really young age. One of the things that grounded me, even though I grew up in the inner city and I didn't have a whole lot of positive examples, is that my mother took us to church, me and my brother. We always went to church. That's where I learned how to speak. That's how I learned how to pray.

That's how I learned Bible drills, all that stuff, that foundational stuff took place in the church. And then as you get older, you start to build relationship with people. You have to know a little bit about them and grew up with Venus and Serena Williams. I actually went to church, old school church.

Some of y'all may be familiar what I mean with old school church. We went to something in the morning called Sunday school. It was at 930. And then after we got out of Sunday school, we went to 11 o'clock service. And after 11 o'clock service, we all went to grandma's house. And I mean, everybody went to grandma's house.

We ate at grandma's house. And then we came back for something called 3.30 service. And then most Sundays, we came back to something called six o'clock, seven o'clock service. And we were there all day. I remember literally Venus and Serena, the only tennis court in the city was right across the street from our church.

And that was different because we ran, we played football, basketball, baseball, ran track. Nobody, nobody played tennis. But those little young girls would be hitting little green balls from the time we went to Sunday school, oftentimes to the time we came back for the evening service. And I never went up to introduce myself.

I watched them from afar. But I learned something from them that you can choose to do something different, even in a church atmosphere when it comes to discipleship. What I believe this conference is talking about is how do you do church differently? How do you disciple other individuals, other believers that may, and probably most churches around the country are not being discipled?

How do you actually, with 90% of the parishioners that are in the church, actually not working in the church, but actually working in the marketplace? How do you actually teach them how to disciple in the marketplace? Why is that so important? Because I was a government worker for 27 years. I was a federal agent.

And guess what you cannot do in the federal government? You better not bring that Bible in there talking about scriptures. You would probably lose your job. So how do you, watch this, witness at all times and use words only when necessary. I'll say that one more time. How do you witness at all times and use words only when necessary?

Let me put a label to that. How do you disciple? How do you build relationship? How do you build trust without sharing words? And that's where I'm going to go with this lesson. I needed someone to teach me that. So again, this is a little bit of my, that's me as a little baby, because it goes back to what are your belief system?

What are your values? What is it about you? People ask me all the time, how did you make it out of Compton when nobody else in your family had ever graduated from college? I played sports and sports. I never experienced peer pressure growing up in the inner city because the people and the kids in my neighborhood that wasn't doing the right stuff said, you have a chance to make it out.

I was good at sports. So they kind of left me out of the stuff that they was doing. This is my mom and dad. They met in middle school. My mom and dad got married at 18. My dad was drafted to go to Vietnam at 18 and my mom had me at 18. Now imagine this. My dad was one of the best athletes in the Los Angeles area.

He's drafted to go to Vietnam. He's wounded in Vietnam, 100% wounded when he comes back and he comes back with what we would now describe today for our soldiers coming back as post-traumatic stress. But when they came back from Vietnam, watch this y'all. There was no diagnosis of post-traumatic stress.

So I lived with a father who had what I call invisible wounds, secrets. He never talked about what happened in Vietnam and that was a part of my upbringing. I only share that with you because as you disciple people, you have to get to know who are you. Naomi, what is your upbringing? What's your past hurt?

The things that are beneath the waterline, I could see things about you and I could even probably make assumptions. Oh, hey, I can look at your wife. Oh, she has a ring. Oh, she's probably married. And I can make, but what I can say, but only 10% of communication or knowledge is what you can see with your eyes or what I call be above the waterline.

90% of the information is beneath the waterline, what you can't see. And I believe that's what discipleship really is all about. Dave and my mentors, discipleship is how do you get beneath the waterline? Okay. So now let me get into the discipleship. So one of the things that Dave talked about yesterday in his session, we'll probably talk about it a little bit this afternoon.

He had a slide yesterday, if you were in that session, it says the difference made in the lives of these people is they had a further along follower of Jesus, deliberately discipled them in the ways of God, both personally and vocationally. How many of you, by show of hands, had somebody in your life that you feel discipled you, poured into your life personally, spiritually, professionally?

Yeah. You're here and you're actually the multiplication of that effect by, see, a lot of times I believe people focus on just the word disciple. What I love about what Dave and what we'll be talking about a little bit this afternoon and now is we, we focus on not just becoming a disciple, but being a disciple maker.

How do you then, if you're a disciple, how do you hide that? How do you keep that to yourself? What I believe and what we believe is you multiply that and you disciple others and you're here sort of living that out. This is Dr. Sam Huddleston. This is his wife, Linda, and my wife, Lakeisha. This is Tim Peterson, who was in our first discipleship group.

Dr. Sam Huddleston is the church I went to when I left and became a federal agent. My wife and I got married in our early 20s. I believe I was 21, I was 22. My wife was 20 and we were a young couple. We met in Compton growing up, met in high school. So we didn't have a whole lot of examples, again, of what a good marriage looked like.

We practiced on each other and then we moved to the Bay Area and what we did realize is that as you move to other communities, oftentimes church is where you find your community or your connections. So we went to his church. He was an African American pastor who pastored a church that was predominantly white.

It was one of the most diverse churches in the Bay Area. Now that was the first thing that was different for me, because I grew up in a church where I told y'all everybody looked alike and everybody was family. And for the first time, I actually went to a church that was actually diverse. We all kind of know it.

Some of the most segregated times in our country is on Sundays. So when I went there, it was very different. What he did differently, I was a federal agent, young 20-something-year-old agent, and I went there to his church and he had a need, like most churches, to have workers in the church. The laborers are few.

The harvest is great, but who's going to help serve in home churches and youth ministry and all of the capacities? And what he did is he said, I'm going to identify a group of young men who are in the marketplace. Most of us, it was a group of seven or eight of us. Most of us were married, young couples who were married, and trying to figure out, first of all, how to just live life, how to be husbands or be a couple, and then how to be Christians and live a life of Christ.

And this is what he did. His aim was, how do I help them not just understand their why, or what we call in the church, your calling, which all of us, what does God want me to do? What's my calling? But then when you figure that out, then it's, how do I do it? And that's what I found in my Christian walk, there's oftentimes we figure out the why or your calling, but then you don't have the good examples of how do I walk it out?

So what he did, he says, I'm going to get this group together. And the first thing he wanted to know was, were we committed? Because his time was valuable. And he didn't just want to hear that we were committed. He actually had us sign a contract that we would be committed to meeting with him once a week.

We did not meet at the church. This was over 30 years ago. We met at a coffee shop and he did it at five in the morning. I went, whoa, five in the morning? I don't know if I can do that. But it was a reason behind meeting at five in the morning. It was because we all worked in the marketplace and he wanted to meet before work and we would all start our day out once a week meeting at the coffee shop.

And he would then teach us in this location and then we would go off to our different vocations and then he would demonstrate it. He would spend time with us. We were all in the church, at his church, but he also wanted to know we were committed. So if we missed, I think it was like three sessions, we were out.

He really wanted to know that he was investing us to know he was investing in us. It wasn't just a meeting. It wasn't just a group of young men he picked at the church. Actually, I call it, he was playing the long game. He was saying, if I can disciple these young men who he believed we had leadership qualities, then they would be leaders, future leaders in the church as the church continued to grow.

So that was his aim, is to create other leaders in the church. So I, being a federal agent, the way I was taught growing up in the Baptist church where in my neighborhood, if you felt called to the ministry, if your why was you were called to the ministry, you would quit your job and then do full-time ministry.

That's what we, he said, no, oh, no, no, no, no, no. Don't you do that. And that was the best thing he ever did for me because that was a part of my belief system. I thought that was the only way. And he said, no, he said, God needs you in the marketplace, 90% of the folks that go to the marketplace.

And when you retire, then come back to the church and be full-time if you like, but stay in the marketplace. And I will tell you, that's one of the greatest things he did for me personally and professionally as my disciple. This is Tim Peterson, him and his wife became children's pastors. And I, my wife, we did youth ministry and he just poured into us, poured into us week after week.

I like to say it this way. In one of the books that Dave has, actually, I believe it's this one, The Great Opportunity, talks about a model of teaching, demonstrating, and then replicating. It's the how too, again, the why can be found, but most of the times what I've seen throughout the country, what I've seen in many churches is people don't know how to do it.

It's one thing to know why, but it's the how, and that's what he began to teach us how to do. So now let me get into sort of my vocation, just to kind of bring it all together of the people you're serving, being in different vocations, and Dave touched on it yesterday, whether it's in ministry, whether it's in arts and entertainment, whether it's in government and nation security or whatever the domain is or the vocation that you work in, mine's was law enforcement.

And I was 23 years old when I went into federal law enforcement. And I wasn't just good at it, I was great at it. I was really good at it. I was working undercover narcotics, and I was so good at undercover narcotics that I was working 12, 13, 14 hours a day, and it was almost as if I was playing because I saw it growing up in my neighborhood.

But then I was coming home from work after working 12, 14, 15 hour days, and my wife would say, how was your day, honey? And I would say, it was good, where's the remote? Three weeks goes by, how was your day, honey? It was good, where's the remote? Three months goes by, it was good, where's the remote?

And I'm youth pastor, and I'm coming once a week, doing it, but I had a team around me and I'm serving, and then three months goes by, how was your day, honey? It was good, where's the remote? And finally she says, you can't do this, you don't talk. And so we went and met with him, Dr. Sam. So he was meeting with us on the side, but he was also working with us to help us be, have good marriages, teaching us how to love our families, how to understand that.

So again, pouring into us spiritually, but also personally and vocationally. And at one point he says, oh, you're having adrenaline rushes, you're hormonal. And I kid y'all not, I was 23 years old. I did this, I took my jacket back and I said, hormonal? I looked at him, I was very naive. I said, women are hormonal.

I said, I carry a gun and a badge. He said, yes, you are. He said, you're ignorant. So when you have a disciple, you also have someone that you build trust who could actually speak truth into your life and tell you things that you may not want to hear, but they will tell you truth. That's a real mentor, disciple in your life.

And he said, you're ignorant. Where I grew up, ignorant was a bad word. Oh, you call me ignorant? I'm ready to fight you. He said, now let me define what ignorance mean. It means you just don't know. He said, what you're having is an adrenaline rush. That's, tell me your name. Brett. When you talked about emotions, I said, watch it, Brett.

I'm an emotions guy. I love emotional intelligence. And what he said is you're going through, your brain is having an emotion. You're having an adrenaline rush. And when you come home from work, you're actually coming off an adrenaline high. And that's why you're here. For 30 years, 27 years, actually specifically, I worked at acute stress, acute stress.

That's my normal. My wife said to me, Naomi, three or four weeks ago, she said, you like stress. She said, you've been retired since 2018, but you manufacture stress. Because that's my normal. He taught me, how do you manage stress? So he not only taught me how to be a good disciple, how to be a good youth pastor.

He taught me that I need to understand how my brain is operating, how to manage myself so I can then serve the young kids that were in the youth ministry, but also serve my wife and my children in a healthy whole way. I didn't know how to do that. And just reading and reading the scriptures and understanding the word, it was good.

I needed that. That was my foundation. But I also needed someone in my life that was going to help me walk it out. What does that look like on a daily basis when you work as a first responder? And I will tell you, if y'all don't know it, the suicide rates of police officers is through the roof. The suicide rate of doctors, the suicide rate of EMS, the suicide rate of firefighters, it's not even talked about.

I actually believe those who are in church, pastors, those who are in ministry, you're actually first responders as well. And you work at highest acute stress. So actually, I have a slide. The Cleveland Clinic says every human being goes through about 70,000 emotions in a day. Of those, we have 27, every day we have 27 emotional or triggering events in a day.

In a actual life or career, we go through 2.6 million emotional or triggering events in a career. That's a regular person, not a first responder. It's a serious thing. But who are they? The reason why I tell you that's that and why that's important is because that's who fill up our churches. That's 90% of our people are working in the marketplace.

What are they experiencing as you disciple them? So I usually show this slide, I'm going to go through quickly. In my career, I've seen many vehicle accidents. I've seen individuals, kids that were going to their prom that never made it to their prom. I've seen homicides, suicides that I was seeing on a regular basis.

And then I was coming back to be youth pastor. Don't miss that because I was serving in the church and I needed an older disciple, older follower of Christ, a more experienced senior follower of Christ to help me work through those things. I never once, y'all, raised my hand to say, I need to go get some help as it related to work.

Never once. And that's why I pour into first responders now to say, it's okay to raise your hand. Matter of fact, in that field, it's not even, it's not even okay to raise your hand and say you need help. We go right back to work. Military is the same way. We're taught how to express our, suppress our emotions, but we're not taught how to express them.

And I had to change hats. How do I suppress my emotions at work and then come home and express my emotions with the youth group and the people at church? I couldn't even do it with my wife. So there was some brokenness there and he showed me how to be healthy in the marketplace so that I could witness at all times.

This is one of my favorite slides. I actually attached a grenade to our heart and our head because there are some times what we don't recognize even in churches that, that when we don't manage our emotions well, we pull the pin and we let go. We are in the blast zone, but guess what? There are others that are in the blast zone.

And one of my first mistakes in youth ministry, I'll never forget it. He was teaching me how to be a youth pastor, but I didn't, I made a mistake and it was a blast zone there cause I didn't manage something well, but he let me learn it and teach it. I share this picture only because of the power, the importance of it.

So I served with him for over 10 years, served as his youth pastor. He discipled me weekly and then doing church services, he would invite our families to our house. He had a rule for all of our young leaders that he was discipling. The church would actually pay for us to go get therapy, marriage counseling, or pay for us to go to a marriage counselor at least once or twice a year.

Why is that so important? This is the way I say it to simplify it. If you change your oil every 3,000, 7,000 miles, then why wouldn't you go get a tune up on your marriage every three, especially when you had no, no model before you. So he actually put systems in place to actually not just grow us spiritually, but grow us personally and vocationally.

This is me. I was 23. I went to women on hormonal, but he kept pouring into me, kept pouring into me spiritually, discipling me. The next thing you know, after I served in that youth ministry, in the different forms of ministry at the church for 10 years, this, I became second in charge of the whole country in my federal agency.

I worked some of the largest cases in the country. I don't tell you that to impress you. I tell you that to impress upon you that when you disciple someone, you don't know who that person then is going to go on. I gave myself a timer so I can stop in time. You don't know who that person is going to go on to disciple.

He actually gave me a book to read at one point. One of my best friends was a secret service agent. He's at the white house. He's on the white house elevator with a president and the president said, what are you reading? He said, oh, a friend of mine, we read books together, grabbed the book and said, you mind if I take that and read it?

And here's what I said in that moment, you may not ever meet the president, but when you multiply, when disciples become disciple makers, you then have a multiplication effect. And now I am pouring into the president who I never met through a book that I read that I got from my mentor who was thousands of miles away.

There is a multiplication. When you actually pour into discipleship, you have a commitment, you have accountability, you have trust, you have relationship and you pour into those individuals and you're willing to do something different. So how did Pastor Sam influence my life, my marriage and my calling?

I talked a lot about my upbringing being, I said, is there anything good that comes out of Compton? Yeah, there is. And I wanted to be an example of that. And he helped me understand, go back and understand some of the things that I grew up with my upbringing. He helped me unpack that luggage to understand some things.

Then he helped me, I've been talking about the whole time, two young people getting married at a very young age. He helped us as he discipled us with the word. He helped us understand how to be a couple, a young couple. And he actually paid for my first therapy sessions. Actually here's another belief system, where I grew up, we believed that only crazy people go get counseling.

Anybody else grow up that way, that only crazy people go get, that was one of the worst things we could have been taught. Because there was some hurt, some pain, some brokenness that we couldn't get through on our own. He, Dr. Sam, was the first to pay for my therapy sessions and it set me and my wife free.

Because we first understood that it wasn't her fault, wasn't my fault, it was some of the things that we needed to unpack. And then again here, he took me from understanding my vocation, understanding who I am, not just as a human, but who I am in Christ. And that when you put God first, that God will raise you up on your job.

And that's how I believe I became second in charge of the whole country. Not because of my talent, because I used to pray, Lord, don't let my talent take me where my character can't sustain me. And you know what discipleship did for me? I was talented, I'm still talented, but my character needed to be in order.

And what discipleship did for me, having that person that was a follower of Christ, more experienced, he helped build my character. And when he couldn't do it by himself, he introduced me to Dave Buhn. And he brought me to Dallas, Texas. And that's when I met Dave and that began more maturing process and then became more and more of mentoring others.

Again, that's me, that's him, Dr. Sam, that's Dave. I love showing that picture when I travel, love showing that picture when I travel, just because I want people to see with their eyes. Because if you don't see it, you'll never see it. So I want them to see that I have different people in my life that don't look like me.

I don't make decisions without reaching out to these two men. And one is in this room now. I do not make decisions without calling the person who has more spiritual experience, who discipled me and could pour into my, and pray with me. So that's a benefit. He also, missions became more than passing a basket around.

I have, as a youth pastor, took people and young people all over the world, Mexico, Costa Rica, Africa, many times. And this is us in Ghana, Africa. And we're paying it forward because discipleship is generational. It expands and transcends generations. That's my son. That's his grandsons. And this is God with our leader in Ghana.

But when you start to disciple, you can start with the people closest to you in your homes and then start to grow it out there again, Jesus math. This is Senator Manchin. If you all don't know who that is, I, up until a year and a half ago, when I thought of Senator Manchin, I said, make a decision because he was known as sort of being in the middle on both sides and I'm saying, just choose a side and make a decision, pick one.

I don't care which one it is, just pick a side until I started training police departments all over the country. Dave, I blame him for this. I went through one of his leadership journeys where he's teaching us leaders about our walk in Christ, about being disciples. And Dave took me to this thing and he said, he said, yeah, you're 20 years, 27 years of law enforcement, Greg, that's good.

But that's real ministry begins in your fifties. I said, what do you mean? My calling, my why is I wanted to be a federal agent. He said, that's good, that's training. And I, I always really didn't believe him until now. I spent 27 years with one agency and now when I look back, it was all training. Now I get to train police departments all over the country and Canada and I'm going, God, how amazing you are.

I decided I was obedient to witness at all times and only use words when necessary. And I had this small group that God allowed me to practice on and I impacted their lives of about three, 4,000 people. And then God said, now take that training and take it to the nations. Y'all catch that outside the church doors, real, there's a church here called champion forest, not far from here and champion forest Baptist church.

When I was here, I attended champion forest. They would have signs coming out of the parking lot, said, welcome to the mission field. It's when you leave the church parking lot and that meeting Senator Manchin, Senator Manchin, his training, every police officer in the state of West Virginia and inmates in their prisons in emotional intelligence, how to manage their emotions.

We are discipling because we partnered with Bible schools. Last story. And then Dave, I'm calling. I'm going to take some questions. Last story. I'm going to take some questions. So when you, here is sort of the model of what I believe discipleship is all about. You have somebody that pours into your life spiritually, personally, and vocationally, and you start to then multiply and touch others and disciple others.

What I began to do is live as a person, but what I want to do is die as a nation. What I mean by that is that when I stand before God, I want God to say, here are the people around the world that you've touched by pouring into their lives. And it might not be anyone that I directly touch. You all talked about having $8 million of pouring into others and send them to the Bible college.

You planted the seed, you plant the seed. But when that seed, that tree grows and produces fruit, and then you pull that fruit, it produces more seed. And now every one of those kids that went to Bible college that y'all helped get there is now discipling others. And now that's a part of your tree. It's a part of your tree.

And I want it to be the nations. And I believe that's what discipleship is all about. And that's how we can reach the world, by reaching individuals through vocations. This young lady, Baylor University brings me in every year to speak, Sikkim Bears. They bring me in every year to speak to their prospective incoming freshmen.

And they talk about how do you manage your emotions. And we talk about, you're going to be leaving home for the first time and live with three or four other people. How do you get along with other people and manage yourself? Talk about, you might get a B for the first time in your life because you were a good student.

All those things. This young lady, I was telling a story about my father, and her name is Allie. And she asked me a question about my father having post-traumatic stress. And I told the other students in the room, about 600 kids, I said, her name is Dr. Allie. Would y'all all call her Dr. Allie the rest of the time you're at Baylor?

I said, Dr. Allie, this is why I want to call you Dr. Allie. That doesn't mean you don't have to apply to enter into Baylor. That doesn't mean you don't have to take your SAT. Doesn't mean you don't have to take rigorous classes. Doesn't mean you don't have to dissect frogs or do your residency. But you are, if you could see it here in your mind, you will then see it with your eyes.

And I said, that's what discipleship, I believe is all about, helping her see it in her mind here. It's kind of like David. David, you're anointed as king, but go back and watch the sheep. There's some things you need to learn from a lion and a bear experience that's going to help you when you get before a Goliath that you don't even know is coming.

And discipleship, when you all begin to teach people, all the things that you all teach is not for right now. Some of that is to help them in their vocation 10 years, 20 years down the line. And that's what Dr. Sam did for me. Two weeks ago, I was in West Virginia. That's the Senator Mansion Project.

I am training people that deal with foster care, educators, former police chiefs, pastors, commissioners, and two inmates in a prison. I'm training on Zoom, all on how to manage their emotions and how to live like Christ. Both of these are Bible students, went through Bible college. That's my grandbaby.

I don't ever present without showing him, because it's all about generations. It's all about when someone poured into me, Dr. Sam, Dave Beering poured into me. If I begin to be taught and then I'm willing to watch someone live it out, okay, demonstrate what that is, then I now can replicate it. So I believe discipleship is how do you take information or revelation, if you want to use that word, turn it into application for transformation, to live transformed lives?

How do you take information or revelation, turn it into application for transformation? And that's what it's all about as I live my life. We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Disciple Makers podcast. You can check us out at discipleship.org for more great content on disciple making. We'll see y'all next time.

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