Stop Doing Things the Hard Way with Dr. Angela Duckworth

When we’re struggling to reach a goal, most of us assume the answer is to buckle down and try harder. But what if all that white-knuckling is actually making things more difficult than they need to be?
Dr. Laurie speaks with psychologist Angela Duckworth, best known for her groundbreaking work on grit, about a surprising new approach to achievement. In her new book, Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best (angeladuckworth.com/situated), Angela explains why changing what’s around us can sometimes be more effective than trying to change ourselves.
Experts Mentioned:
• Angela Duckworth (angeladuckworth.com), Professor of Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania
• Lee Ross (spsp.org/membership/awards/heritage-wall/ross), Professor of Psychology at Stanford University
• Richard Nisbett (lsa.umich.edu/psych/people/emeriti-faculty/nis…), Professor Emeritus of Psychology at the University of Michigan
• James Gross (spl.stanford.edu/people/james-gross), Professor of Psychology at Stanford University
• Adrian Ward (adrianfward.com), Associate Professor of Marketing at University of Texas at Austin
• Joseph Henrich (henrich.fas.harvard.edu), Professor of Biological Anthropology and Professor of Human Evolutionary Biology at Harvard University
• Bob Bowman (texaslonghorns.com/staff-directory/bob-bowman/…), Director of Swimming and Diving and Head Men’s Coach at University of Texas at Austin
• Martin Seligman (ppc.sas.upenn.edu/people/martin-ep-seligman), Professor of Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania
• Anders Ericsson (psychology.fsu.edu/article/k-anders-ericsson-1…), Professor of Psychology at Florida State University
• Walter Mischel (psychology.columbia.edu/news/memoriam-walter-m…), Professor Emeritus of Psychology at Columbia University
• Reinhold Niebuhr (kinginstitute.stanford.edu/niebuhr-reinhold), Protestant theologian
• Viktor Frankl (viktorfranklamerica.com/viktor-frankl-bio), Austrian psychiatrist and neurologist
Resources Mentioned:
• Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best (angeladuckworth.com/situated), by Angela Duckworth (2026)
• Grit: The Power and Passion of Perseverance (angeladuckworth.com/grit), by Angela Duckworth (2016)
• The Person and the Situation: Perspectives on Social Psychology (amazon.com/Person-Situation-Perspectives-Socia…), by Lee Ross and Richard Nisbett (1991)
• Frog and Toad Together (amazon.com/dp/0064440214?lv=shuf&channelId…), by Arnold Lobel (1972)
• Man's Search for Meaning (amazon.com/s?k=man%27s+search+for+meaning&…), by Viktor Frankl (1946)
• “The Serenity Prayer (archives.yalealumnimagazine.com/issues/2008_07…),” by Reinhold Niebuhr
• The Art of War (amazon.com/dp/1494417278?lv=shuf&channelId…), by Sun Tzu
• The Golden Rules: 10 Steps to World-Class Excellence in Your Life and Work (amazon.com/dp/125005950X?lv=shuf&channelId…), by Bob Bowman (2016)
• “A Stitch in Time: Strategic Self-Control in High School and College Students (pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4856169),” by Angela Duckworth, Rachel White, Alyssa Matteucci, Annie Shearer, and James Gross (Journal of Educational Psychology, 2016)
• “Self-Control and Academic Achievement (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30609915),” by Angela Duckworth, Jamie Taxer, Lauren Eskreis-Winkler, Brian Galla, and James Gross (Annual Review of Psychology, 2019)
• “Self-control and SAT outcomes: Evidence from two national field studies (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36170325),” by Chayce Baldwin, Kyla Haimovitz, Priya Shankar, Robert Gallop, David Yeager, James Gross, and Angela Duckworth (PLoS One, 2022)
• “Situational Strategies for Self-Control (pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4736542),” by Angela Duckworth, Tamar Szabó Gendler, and James Gross (Perspectives on Psychological Science, 2016)
• “Brain Drain: The Mere Presence of One's Own Smartphone Reduces Available Cognitive Capacity (journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/691462),” by Adrian Ward, Kristen Duke, Ayelet Gneezy, and Maarten Bos. (Journal of the Association for Consumer Research, 2017)
• “A 2-Phase Labeling and Choice Architecture Intervention to Improve Healthy Food and Beverage Choices (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22390518),” by Anne N Thorndike, Lillian Sonnenberg, Jason Riis, Susan Barraclough, and Douglas E Levy (American Journal of Public Health, 2012)
• “Innovation in the collective brain (royalsocietypublishing.org/rstb/article/371/16…),” by Michael Muthukrishna and Joseph Henrich (Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B, 2016)
Related Episodes:
• “Your Environment Affects Your Happiness More Than You Think with Dr. Leidy Klotz (pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-…)”
• “How to Spend Your Time and Money Better (with Nobel Prize Winner Richard Thaler) (pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-…)”
• “The Man Who Invented Happiness Science: Marty Seligman (pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-…)”
• “How Our Screen Habits Impact Our Stress Levels (pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-…)”
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