3 & Out - INSTANT REACTION: Caleb Williams & Bears SHUT DOWN Sam Darnold & Seahawks on MNF, NFL Post-Week 8 Mailbag

0:01 The Volume. What is happening, my people? I'm Jon. This is the 3 and Out Podcast. Hopefully you are doing well, enjoying life. Kind of like the Bears, who made a massive trade, and then the guy showed up and dominated with Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson. What a time to be a Bears fan. It's got to feel pretty good.

0:38 Rough night to be a Seattle Seahawks fan. Darn a little iffy. The offense struggling. The defense, I would say, looks human at home, at night, which typically doesn't happen under Mike McDonald. But we'll dive into that game. We'll do a big mailbag. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram. Fire in those DMs, questions answered here on the show. And, yeah, we'll talk a bunch of football. You guys know the drill.

1:07 If you listen on Colin's feed, make sure you subscribe to 3NOW. You can watch us on Netflix. Hit the alert button. Never miss a show. And we're posting content to the YouTube page, so go check that out. And let's just dive into Monday Night Football. What a time to be a Bears fan. I mean, it doesn't get much better. You know what hit me tonight was this isn't the biggest win of the Ben Caleb year and a half. That's clearly the playoff game against the Green Bay Packers. You could argue this is the most significant win.

1:41 Because unlike that game, I think every Bears fan would agree, I think most people in the NFL would agree, their defense was not good enough to win a Super Bowl. You watched tonight and you went, whoa. Is Jeffrey Simmons the best player in the NFL? We'll get to Caleb and Ben, and they were both incredible tonight. I mean, the steps and the improvement Caleb has shown in his short time with Ben Johnson is eye-opening. You could tell Troy Aikman, who is pretty critical sometimes of quarterback play, was blown away. But, you know, Ryan Poles early on made some weird moves that did not work. You know, Chase Claypool, like all GMs, you make mistakes. No one bats a thousand. And the moment they got rid of Eberflus,

2:37 they took a deep breath, they got Ben Johnson on board, They have been a high-level operation. And I live in Arizona, ton of people from the Midwest. I know a lot of Bears fans that are in my immediate life. Obviously working with Colin, who's acquired them as his squad. I feel like I've watched every Bear snap of the Ben Johnson era very closely. Trading two first-round picks... even if you're getting Lawrence Taylor or Reggie White, I mean, it's a big moment, right? It's a franchise-altering trade. If you're a poker player, it's putting everything in the middle of the table. If you're an investor, it's allocating all your funds to said business, said stock. And that's what Ryan Poles did. And I think for a lot of people,

3:33 They just hadn't seen him play because who the hell over the last couple of years is watching Titans games? It happens a lot in college football when you'll be watching Kirby Smart, Signetti, Dan Lanning, whoever, one of the top teams over the course of the last couple of years. You go, who is that guy? I'm like, oh, we landed him from Western Michigan. He was all conference player.

3:54 And now he's the best player on our team or one of them. And he's going to be a top 20 pick. Remember when Jared Verst was dominating at Florida State? And everyone's like, where's this guy from? They're like, Albany. Who? Where? Yeah, he played at Albany. He's going to be a top 15 pick. And Jeff Simmons, I was thinking about it tonight watching the game. He's 6'4, 300-plus pounds. He's got a 7-foot wingspan. But what really, from a scouting perspective, and Pohl's relationship with Borgonzi in Tennessee... goes back to, they work together with the Chiefs. So he knows them well.

4:31 Kind of both the big trades, Jeff Simmons tonight and Quentin Nelson, both the GMs with the Titans and the Bears and the Colts' new guy, Dodds, and John Snyder have worked together. I think it helps make these deals come to fruition. But if you are going to be an all-pro, and many would consider Jeff Simmons last season had the best year of his career, He was not playing for a competitive team. They drafted fourth. They could have made the argument for the shittiest team in the league.

5:06 They were every bit as bad as the Raiders. So if you were going to be an all-pro defensive tackle, it's one thing at end, like Miles Garrett, you just kind of get to rush. It's fun. In the middle, you're getting double teamed. That sucks. It is way easier to be like, I'm going to take these games off.

5:25 I'm not going to play that hard. That's why when you scout college players, big-time prospects that are on teams that are not winning and they still dominate and they still play hard, you're like, that guy's wired the right way. Well, he was an all-pro on a team that drafted fourth overall. That was a complete laughingstock. That was a joke that fired everybody. They fired their coach like three or four games into the season. So when you talk about football character and they said how good of a guy he was, team captain, just his play based on who he's playing for Damn. And tonight, listen, Monday Night Football, my mother can get up for that game, but he was, it was eye-opening how dominant he was. And this guy, I mean,

6:10 what a muscle flex tonight for the Bears' operation. Their general manager just makes the biggest trade so far of the year, I guess, since Miles Garrett, or I mean, right up there with him. And he immediately is the best player on the field. The offensive play caller who's the head coach just works Mike McDonald, who is a great defensive coach. Caleb Williams has, and this is, Ben deserves credit for this, and so does Caleb, has transformed his game into like, The mastermind, like this guy's mastered Ben's offense, like we talk about Purdy with Kyle. Yet he has the physical attributes of Josh Allen in terms of throwing, in terms of breaking tackles, and like the speed to run around like Lamar Jackson before the injuries.

7:05 You're like, is this kind of the perfect player? As a buddy texted me tonight, like, It's got a little bit of a vibe of Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes in the early days. Like, what is going on? Aikman said it tonight. Hiring Ben Johnson is the best thing that could have happened to Caleb Williams' career. And listen, I was dubious early on. He's coming from golf, timing rhythm offense. That's not how Caleb played. And within a year and a half, that opening drive of the game was an absolute clinic from the standpoint of complete control of the offense. The head coach came into this environment going, listen, this is probably the hardest place to play or every bit as hard a place to play as any other

7:54 place in the NFL, especially at night, primetime. They went for it on a fourth down. They drove right down the field, scored a touchdown. It was like 17 plays, seven, eight minutes, set the tone for the entire game. Like, we're here. This quarterback's real. He's on a completely different level now. The offensive weaponry we have. You know, the head coach championed Luther Burden during training camp. What was his quote during camp? How Luther Burden's playing, I would buy stock. And every single game, that dude is making plays.

8:32 And offensively, they are just a juggernaut. And they're missing one of their most important key cogs in Menungai, who's going to come back and will just add to the running game. Swift's an excellent player. They're also missing a tight end who plays a ton, Komet, who's out with the knee. So what a performance to go into that environment.

8:53 And you could tell early on, You know, the one thing I appreciate, if you go to the Lions-Vikings game, if you go to the Chiefs-Bronco game, and you go to this game tonight, I watched a lot of football this weekend. Some of these games, it's like, this ain't a playoff game. Those three games, you could feel early on the violence on the field. It's like, this is a violent game. That hit early in the game when Darnold slid and he got leveled and they didn't throw the flag. Listen, obviously it should have been a flag, but I was like, okay, sit down, honey, bring me my dinner. I ain't moving. This is awesome. And the Bears are ready for it. And last year, I mean, think how many games the Bears, you know, it was just,

9:38 it was a lot of crazy offense. Their defense was atrocious. They feel like a much more complete team. And I think a huge reason, obviously, adding Simmons takes their entire defense to another level. It makes everyone on that front dramatically better. Exponentially, immediately. Like, it's like, you add him, they take a huge step. And I know there was a lot of buzz out there, like, and they showed polls during the game on the phone. And it's like, is he making another deal? And everyone's like, Khalil Mack, listen.

10:11 obviously health permitting, but adding Jeffrey Simmons will make all those guys play at another level. Their DBs, especially their corners, are just not good. Jalen Johnson just can't run. The rookie from Texas was out tonight, so you're playing Stevenson, who's not very good. To me, I'd be sniffing around DBs.

10:31 Can we find a corner to go with the front four, which now with Simmons is going to be pretty elite because he's elite. He had moments tonight where you're like, is this essentially prime Aaron Donald that's like two and a half inches taller and 20 pounds heavier, but equally as quick and equally as dominant? Because that's how he looked.

10:57 Going up against the second year player who's really good, who's drafting the first round. It wasn't even a fair fight. He was, you know, you could make the argument Caleb was, but I would be stunned if Simmons isn't getting a game ball in that locker room when Ben Johnson goes viral tonight for that moment. So what a muscle flex for the brass. From Ryan Poles to Ben Johnson to Dennis Allen, who's doing a fantastic job. You talk about a group that is just, they played tonight with a physicality that Seattle plays with, that they matched them. And Simmons set the tone, but everyone else followed. And as the game went on, it was harder for Seattle to do that because Leonard Williams gets the stinger. It was just,

11:46 there was a violence to the night that was really pretty special. And the play calling and the timing, when you look at the two play callers, Sam Darnold is not built to play if you can't outrun the ball. Now, Seattle's got some limitations because Shahid's out. Their receiving group, beside JSN, who is elite, is not even close to what the Bears are rolling with. So if JSN isn't open and he can't force it, he got frenetic tonight.

12:14 He feels off kilter in these moments. He got bailed out on the one interception in the red zone. that there was holding when they brought in the backup DB for Jalen Johnson. It's a bad pick. Didn't count, but it was like, that was a bad throw. And I don't think he threw it knowing he was getting the flag.

12:31 Could be wrong, but I don't remember Caleb really putting the ball in harm's way. Couple times, you know, leaves a little high over the middle of the field when he's really putting some torque on it. But I thought for the most part, completely under control. It's like, He probably wouldn't say I've mastered the offense, but his comfort level from whatever it was last year feels to be in a different universe this year. His accuracy is dramatically better.

13:00 Some of the basic throws, like the quick slant, I think it was in the second half to Loveland. It was like DB draped over him. Ball has to be low. Numbers are below. You got to hit him in stride, right in the pocket. It's like, God, he's thriving in the pocket. We know he can make... the out-of-this-world hero plays.

13:20 He's been doing that probably since he could run, like at seven, eight years old. So those plays are something he has in his back pocket like few do. Where you become a great player is just do the basic things with ease. And that to me is the step he's taken this year. It's like the basic things come easy to him. And him and Ben Johnson, when you factor in his play calling, his play designing, it feels like no one hits that jailbreak screen for big plays like Ben Johnson. He did it last week, you know, on Thursday night against the Patriots to burden. He did it again tonight to, was it Raymond he hit? And they just do it nonstop. And they have his feel for, like, there's like a mixture of instincts. And you're not born

14:10 with it because no one's born to coach football. But at a young age, you just have a feel for play calling. And you watch Fleury like he has some individual nice calls, but there are also stretches where it's like, what's going on here, buddy? You know, you're down multiple scores. Why are you running the ball? You know, when you got to go 80 yards and your running game doesn't work.

14:32 I know your passing game has some limitations, but you got no choice here. Now, I don't know if the head coach is in his ear trying to tell him to establish the run at that point in time, but it was a little bit of a head scratcher. It really was. And one guy is Alita's job and the other guy is trying to learn on the job. And you can tell it's a challenge. And when you can't run the ball, and obviously the Bears aren't running it, you know, without Menungai as dominant as they did last year.

15:03 I do think once you get them back, It just adds a physical element, though. Swift, I mean, had some big explosive plays tonight, obviously scoring touchdowns. He did his job. But I think once you bring him back to the fold, there is no disputing. Unlike last year, the Bears are a legit Super Bowl threat. Like, I do think it's healthy and okay for Bears fans to go, we can win the Super Bowl. With that level of quarterback... who is just, that level of play is like on the road, in that environment, against that personnel and that coach, that's MVP shit. That is, that's a muscle flex. That's like, I have this in the bag now. You know I can scramble around, close my eyes, and throw it 50 yards down the field for the greatest catch you'll ever see.

15:50 But I can also slice and dice you from the pocket. Then it becomes game over. Oh, and our defense. Like, Dennis Allen's a really good defensive coordinator. And a huge part of defense, I don't care at any level, but definitely in college and the pros, you got to have the Jimmys and the Joes. Like what Flores is doing is remarkable, but it's that you're going to get to a point where you're going to play, you know, other elite teams on offense and you've got to have some elite players. It's why I would imagine polls are still working the phones trying to, you know, add something. But, you know, this game was weird because at one point in time, Bears are up 20-9. Ben's dialing it up.

16:30 They're dominating. Seattle had gone three and out, like, I think four of their first six drives. And then they called, like, a bullshit offensive PI on JSN who was just, God, he's good. He is out of this world as a talent. He is, I mean, it's like football porn watching him run around and get open, especially when he's got no help.

16:55 They call the PI. Then they kick the field goal. They get it blocked. A couple plays later, Lawrence causes the fumble on Loveland. Then they throw the interception, but it gets overturned or it doesn't count because of the holding. They score a touchdown. They throw a two-point conversion. All of a sudden, it's 20-17. You're like, this is a game.

17:17 Then they scored. The floodgates just opened. That's what the Bears can do to you. They can score so quickly once they get some momentum. And I just, like I said, I think the Packer win is obviously the best win given what was at stake. You could argue this is the most like significant in terms of this is real.

17:42 Even after the Packers, think how many guys they were missing at the time. It wasn't a great Packer team. It was more about what that win symbolized, beating that team, the rivalry in Chicago. It was probably a religious experience for Bears fans, and they deserved it. Tonight was, we're as good as anyone in this fucking league. We don't have to play in these 48 to 45 games like they were going to have to win a lot last year.

18:09 We can play defense. And the number, like, I would say one of the biggest keys to making a Super Bowl run, it's like one of the biggest keys to winning the national championship, is you've got to play defense. I don't care how good your offense is, how great your play caller is, how great your quarterback is, you've got to play defense. And they're a legit Super Bowl threat.

18:30 And tonight, like, clearly Seattle's defense is not quite as good. They're not as dominant in terms of their secondary, their coverage units. Leonard's out. Their front isn't quite as unstoppable and unblockable. They currently have the same record as the Rams. I mean, the 49ers played the Raiders this week. They are in complete control of this division. They've already beat Seattle.

18:55 They've already beat the Rams. They have a three-game lead on both teams. They've obviously already beat the Cardinals as well. So, I mean, they just have a commanding lead in this division. which is big, which is really, really important when you look at the NFC. Part of the problem for the Bears, their path because of their division is hard. I mean, we'll see how the Lions' injuries and more information comes out about Jack and Brian Branch, some of the other guys, where they're at from a health standpoint, but obviously their offense is elite. The Packers, you're getting Micah Parsons back this week, and the Vikings, who have already beat them, are just tough fucking out. The division's really hard. And

19:35 Seattle has not even played the Rams yet. So those games, I would imagine both those two teams make the playoffs. They feel like two playoff teams to me, but they feel like two wildcard teams to me. And the one thing is like, you've got to find a way to get Sam settled down. Because I would say this year, unlike last year, he just looks frenetic. And a huge reason is, one, I mean, Kubiak is just a much better play caller than Brian Fleury. But they could run the ball last year. And right now, that's part of the reason they go in and they add a future Hall of Famer in Quentin Nelson, a guy who's going to get a $ 100 million contract this offseason. But a guard can only do so much. It's on the running backs,

20:18 it's on the scheme, it's on the play calling. Every time that he would call these pitches and try to get to the edges because they thought they had an advantage against the Bears, either Dennis Allen had it sniffed out from a play calling standpoint, or their players just aren't good enough to block them. And there was no daylight.

20:35 It was like surprising the one time in the second half when Charbonnet busted out like a 10-yard run. It's like, whoa! Didn't know they had that in the back. Obviously, Price coming back off injury didn't really do anything. There's just no daylight. There's nowhere to go. And I know a lot of people are like, should John Schneider go all in for Jonathan Taylor? It's like, well, you know, or like a top receiver. Do you feel good enough about your play color? Or do you want to keep your picks in your back pocket? Because, you know, you got some older players. Lawrence, as I said, tonight's going to retire after this season more than likely. You know, Leonard Williams getting up there in age. You just want some ammunition.

21:13 You're already paying multiple guys a lot of money. I mean, is Fleury a guy if you go 9-8 or 10-7 and you either miss the playoffs or you're one and done? Like, is he for sure keeping his job? I just think you want to have some optionality. Like, for the Bears, Ryan Poles could smell it. Like, we're freaking close. So when you're close, what do you do? You take a swing for the fences. And there's no guarantee. It's football.

21:37 Injuries happen. You just never know about personality fits. I'm being a little hyperbolic based on one game, but holy shit. It could not have gone better. I think literally it's impossible for his debut game on the road, Monday Night Football, for it to have gone better for Jeff Simmons and Ryan Pulse. What a banner night. for the Chicago Bears general manager for their head coach and their quarterback. Massive win, 6-2.

22:09 Times are good in the Windy City. Let's dive into the rest of the pod. I need to tell you about this new prediction market called Polymarket. It's the best way to trade in sports. In the past, if you wanted action on the game, you'd put some money in. And if your team was doing well and you wanted to cash out, they would lock the trade or take a big fee. But Polymarket is a prediction market. It's a stock exchange for sports, buying in and selling out on your terms. I've tried them all. Trust me. And Polymarket is simply the best prediction market. Better than DraftKings, FanDuel, Kalshi, you name it. They're so confident you'll never go back to the other guys. They're giving you a free $ 25 on your first trade when you deposit $ 10. And now

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23:31 Code 3-O-U-T to get $ 25 free after you deposit just $ 10. 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply.

23:45 Not available in all jurisdictions. Trading is risky. 100% loss can occur. See polymarket.com slash TOS for more information. The Polymarket US app serves as an independent software provider and affiliate of Polymarket US and Polymarket Clearing. The CFTC regulated exchange and clearing organization. Yesterday, the Jack Campbell injury. You know, we, and I'm as guilty as anyone with this. The way we discuss football injuries when someone, you know, tears a labrum, tears an Achilles, breaks an arm, Lamar Jackson breaks a thumb or whatever he ended up doing. Out for this turf toe, the Ravens season's over. We all acknowledge that big picture is going to be fine. He's not only going to play again, he'll play well again. He'll get

24:42 another massive contract, whether it's from the Ravens or someone else. And for most of these guys, unless it's a catastrophic knee injury, which happens less and less with the improvements in modern medicine and the surgeries and the rehab, most of these guys come back. Now, are they ever quite at the same depending on their age? Obviously, there are a lot of variables. And then there is a situation like what happened with Jack Campbell. And I just saw a clip of Dan Campbell speaking to the media, I think on Monday. And as of recording this, they have been...

25:18 Mysterious is an unfair way to describe it because it's a very sensitive subject. And I think why a lot of us go... When guys get the neck-head injury where you're like, well, is he moving? Did something catastrophic happen? I would say typically, at least in recent memory, we have got an update by the end of the night that, hey, he's moving all of his extremities. It's trending in the right direction and everything's okay in terms of a movement standpoint.

25:51 We haven't got that yet. And... While Dan had mentioned that everything's trending in the right direction, things are on the up and up, they have been extremely hesitant, and I totally understand being measured in this situation because clearly it was extremely serious as teammates were crying, of really saying much, which I think has made this situation scarier.

26:18 And we don't get these that often, and we spend so much time of like, is Sirianni going to fire the offensive coordinator? They really got to pay Mike Norvell $ 50 million to go away? This guy sucks. Trade this guy. This is an extremely violent game, and you have these situations that could potentially be life-altering. And it's pretty rare, even in the NFL, right? Obviously, the DeMar Hamlin situation years ago was different, but dude almost died on the field.

26:48 And miraculously he came back and, you know, by the next year he's playing. I mean, it was an incredible story. And it's easy to laugh about now. But I think most of us that consume football, obviously those of us that do what I do for a living, will never forget where we were when that moment happened. And it's got to be one of the most jolting things I've ever seen on a football field. And... while they're not apples to apples, it was pretty clear that how they kept coming back and then going back to break, like this is not good. And I think it brings to light.

27:29 I mean, this is an extremely violent game and the league has been proactive. The sport has been proactive down to high school football. I mean, when I was a kid, you padded football, you could play in like elementary school and junior high. We had, it was called, I don't think it's no way in Davis. I've said this before.

27:47 They're calling it. It's called junior midgets, midgets. And I mean, a lot of towns did it and they ran the same offense building up to when you got to JV football, high school football. So it was like a seamless transition, which now they have changed that to become much more flag football centric. And I think, and I'm guilty of this as well, complaining about the NFL and, becoming, you know, like a flag football league. But there is no officiating the pure collisions out of the game. And stuff that sometimes feels extremely violent, guys hop right back up in no one's face. And then a tackle like that happened in the Lions game, which I think most, I bet Lions fans would agree with this, the collision with Branch

28:32 and the defensive linemen felt more vicious than and violent... and the collision... jumped off the television... more than the Jack Campbell tackle... but... it's hard to... and I've... even when I worked in the NFL... I watched the game from the press box... or... I guess Howie's box... if it was... you know... a big enough game... you know...

28:54 wives weekends... though I was single at the time... but stuff like that... I've never watched an NFL game... from the sideline... except when I started going to the... when I did a... the radio... And at Candlestick, I don't think they do this around the league anymore. They used to allow the media to go on the field with five minutes left in the game. And I've been to a million training camp practices and regular season practices and college practices. But practice in a game is a lot different.

29:23 And I'll never forget Monday Night Football, the last game at Candlestick, it was the Falcons against the 49ers. And Matt Ryan was leading them down the field. And I just remember the speed of in which from the snap to when he had to get rid of the ball because the pass rush was on. all over him. And I did this for a living. I scouted these players.

29:45 I then talked about these players. It was as eye-opening experience as I'd ever had in the game up to that point. I think it was 2013. And the game was kind of... it ended essentially with Matt Ryan throwing what was considered the pick at the stick. I think it bounced off Roddy White and Navarro Bowman picked it off and went the other way. And I actually, me and Guy Haberman were standing right next to Chris Berman at the time. And I just remember the speed and the size and the game was definitely more violent in terms of the league, the way they officiated was completely different in 2013 than it is in 2026. but it does, I don't know if humanize is the right way to put it, but I think it brings into light that,

30:35 you know, I heard someone say this recently, that the crazy part about the sport of football in college, but definitely the pros, because it's a job and you can get cut at any moment. I mean, you kind of can in college football now, but truly like if you have a bad game and you're not one of the, handful of players on a bigger contract you can just be released on Monday a lot like us like we can just get fired right we just show up to work and it's like hey uh Bill needs to see an HR that that's the NFL unlike these other sports where every penny is guaranteed on these contracts I mean in basketball it's like players options I pretty rare to get players options in the NFL you're kind of fighting

31:16 for your job on a weekly basis definitely on a yearly basis right? You can go from the penthouse to the outhouse, back to the penthouse to the outhouse, over and over in football. And to watch a guy's career and life be altered, I think we talk so much about these injuries. Like, oh, he's on injured reserve. He can come back in four weeks or he can rehab.

31:38 Maybe he'll be back in two months. And we just kind of become numb to it. But Basically, every game in the pregame locker room, when you say a pregame prayer or you say a pregame kind of pump-up speech, you kind of know that some of the guys you're going out to battle with are not going to be in the locker room when you come back. And that's on a weekly basis. It is extremely rare in a football game that someone doesn't get injured, especially nowadays, that someone doesn't go into the locker, KO'd for the game.

32:10 And I thought this last week, I mean, the level of, let's face it, you had to have a little mental insanity. I mean, how many people, how many workplaces, Christian Watson on Thursday night was spitting up blood, went to the hospital in an ambulance and said, I want to go back and play. And they're like, well, everything looks pretty good.

32:33 You can if you want. And sat in the shotgun and they drove him back and he ran back on the field and played. so I, I, I don't know if we quite give the players, uh, you know, truly enough credit, what they're truly putting on the line every single week. I mean, I, like everybody, you hope Jack Campbell, I mean, the captain of the team, clearly someone as important of a person in that locker room. I think Dan and Aiden Hutchinson and Amin Ron, all those guys would agree as they've had during this run in terms of leadership, intensity, setting the tone. Um, And you just hope everything's going to be okay. Because this is the worst case scenario, potentially. I mean, again, he sounded pretty optimistic,

33:21 but they've just refused to say anything concrete about, well, everything's going to be okay, this is where he's at. Which is really scary. And yeah, it's an eye-opening moment in the NFL season, that's for sure. Okay, let's bang out some mailbag questions. At John Middlecoff, at John Middlecoff is the Instagram fire in the DMs. This guy is basically a Rams fan, and he gave all these different trade options because Devontae's out. And you feel it when you watch the Rams. Like, can you just throw it to Puka every play? I mean, it is, you know, you watch the Bengals, for example. It's like you got two guys to throw it to. Most teams, the Cowboys, two guys to throw it to. Even... Even, let's say,

34:09 the Arizona Cardinals. Trey McBride, Mike Wilson. Right now, the Rams feel like if we're not hitting runs, we've got to throw it to 12. And gave some long shots of Garrett Wilson, Zay Flowers. I think Zay Flowers, they just extended him. You'd have to eat so much dead cap because it would all accelerate. I don't think you can trade him. Unless you're completely blowing the whole thing up and it doesn't feel like they're doing it. but one thing that he ended this question with was starting to feel like Herbert could be Stafford's successor in Los Angeles more than Burrow, just putting it out there now.

34:52 I hear a lot of people like in 49er land, like could the 49ers land Max Crosby? In my short time around the Raiders brass and Mark Davis and some of his people, I would say 0% chance they would ever make a significant trade with the 49ers. Even now that they've moved out of the geographical area in which they shared and have their own place in Vegas. Unless they offered like three first-rounders, two seconds, and two plays.

35:24 It's just not happening. I think there's some similarities, even though I wouldn't call the Chargers and the Rams rivals necessarily, like the Raiders and the 49ers had that feel when they were both in the Bay Area. You could not trade Justin Herbert to the Rams. That would be just a non-starter. Plus, they don't have picks. They don't have a first rounder this year. They don't have a second rounder next year. Their ammunition... in terms of what they could trade for a significant quarterback, went out the window when they traded for Myles Garrett. And I think they're in a weird spot given that they got Ty Simpson, who they drafted number 13th overall. Now granted, over the summer, someone told me if they ever got the opportunity for

36:12 one of the top guys, they would not hesitate just because they drafted Ty Simpson. Obviously, things could change if Ty played whenever Stafford quits and looks awesome and he's You obviously just ride that out. But... I think the Rams are kind of committed to the operation. I mean... This is their squad. They need Myles Garrett back. Like that should... In theory significantly help them. But clearly he's pretty banged up because he's missed a lot of time.

36:41 I mean it's... What is it? November 2nd? We'll see if he practices this week. As you mentioned you believe the Chiefs should take a big swing on a wide receiver. However... It seems incredibly unlikely seeing Veach's aggressiveness in the trade market post-Mahomes rookie contract. The team has nine picks in the next year's draft. Do you think they could trade three first-round picks in several seconds to draft Jeremiah Smith, considering how desperate they are at wide receiver? Or do you think they can finish rebuilding the roster post-Jones and Kelsey, moving off and building a new offense more around Kenneth Walker and Mahomes while adding pass rush juice in free agency?

37:27 You know, this was supposed to be somewhat of a transitional year for the Chiefs. They just drafted three guys in the top 40. You bring Eric Biennemi back, Mahomes coming off the injury. I think before the season started, if you said, hey, The Chiefs go 11-6 and are the sixth seed, given that they're coming off a disastrous season where they had to move off some pieces. They got a little older. You go, that's a good trend.

37:55 And then you start 5-0. Kenneth Walker's on this pace to break Barry Sanders' rushing records. You're like, God, how good can this team be? And they got their ass kicked in Seattle. Last night's game, when you're up 24-13 in the fourth quarter, is a pretty big kick in the you-know-what. That's one I would imagine Coach Reed, Mahomes, Kelsey's quotes after the game, that they couldn't have been thrilled.

38:21 I do think once he hurt his knee, they want to extend his career to play at a high level for another decade. Well, he's 30 years old. Mahomes is no longer the 25-year-old hotshot. I mean, this guy's, you're going to blink and all of a sudden he's going to be 34, 35 years old. And the easiest way to extend that is to run the ball and play good defense. Now, defensively, big picture, they're going to be okay.

38:46 They have a star defensive coordinator. They got some young pieces. They will keep building on that. To me, the Jeremiah Smith thing, if they are a, they'd be a tough out in the playoffs. But let's say they don't last long, and they win a first-round game, and they're out in the second round. They win 11-6, and they're a wild card.

39:06 They're drafting somewhere in the mid-20s. So to get from the mid-20s up to the top two or three is borderline unprecedented, especially in the modern-day trades. It's not realistic. I think they're more likely to use that pick to get their equivalent of trade for Jalen Waddell, right? Like the way that the Rams traded for McDuffie. That's where I, my idea is simple. If you're the Jets and you have, I think I saw today, pick six, five, and 10, you don't need four first round picks, right? So we will give you our second this year and are first the following year. So you have multiple seconds, three firsts, and then the following year, you still have two first-round picks. That, to me, makes a lot of sense. And it's a

39:56 way for Vietz to be extremely aggressive. But I think you've got to balance it. You don't want to just, I would say, blow your load on something that you kind of regret. And we have seen trades where teams have regretted it. So there aren't that many players who are truly worth the moon and the stars. I mean, Jeremiah Smith would be, but no one's trading back that far that's drafting that high that sucks that much. Because if you go, okay, I'm drafting second, and I'll take the Chiefs, two ones, two twos, two threes, they're going to be good, and those picks are going to be in the 20s, and I no longer have Jeremiah Smith.

40:39 who I probably need to sell to my fan base a little bit. So I think that's an unrealistic even option, even though I kind of like where your mind's at. I haven't heard it yet, but why not Lamar Jackson for Justin Herbert blockbuster? Both teams are in a tailspin. Both of these teams' quarterbacks need a fresh start. Minner was with Herbert at LA. Lamar can be a star in LA, perfect for both teams. Jim has great teams in SF with a mobile quarterback. I just think these things are pretty rare. I think if a guy like Lamar Jackson or Justin Herbert's traded, they are much more likely to get traded for a hall of draft picks than to take a guy because Herbert's under contract. One, he has a no trade clause. So that complicates it.

41:41 And Lamar, the chargers would essentially just have to give Lamar the contract they gave Herbert and add 30% to it. So I don't hate what you're saying. And I think in other sports, baseball and basketball, those would be like talking points, but, I would say when you look at these football ones, the crazy part about Jared Goff and Matt Stafford's trade, Jared Goff was the throw-in. The trade for Stafford was really the two first-round picks. And I know the Lions, you know, we love Goff. I think it's easy to say that now. At the time, Goff's market, given his contract, was not very big. I don't think they could have traded Jared Goff at that time for a first-round pick. Think how crazy that sounds now. But

42:30 things change dramatically. And that's the thing. Football's a lot like the stock market. Things kind of can rollercoaster up and down. And guys' contracts play a huge, huge role. Part of the reason Simmons, where I heard someone, was it Glazer, tell the story about a lot of guys were calling the Titans going, is he available? Is he available?

42:53 Is he available? And I guess when Ryan Poles called, it wasn't like, is he available? It's like, hey, we are interested and our offer is starting with two first round picks. So it's not like knocking on the house, is it for sale? It's more like, hey, knocking on the house, we will pay you $ 2 million for this house.

43:14 Does that whet your whistle? Does that get the pistons firing upstairs? Right? So I think... I just think it's very difficult with contracts. To me, if Lamar is not on the Ravens, he's got a haul from some of these crappy teams. The Jets, the Dolphins, the Cardinals. A team willing to just give a haul and give him a massive contract. The other thing is, it's not necessarily player empowerment, but if you were going to trade for Lamar Jackson... you would be ready to break them off with like a four-year contract extension at like $ 60 million a year. Guaranteeing them probably a couple hundred million dollars.

44:05 And that's the only way the trade is going down, which would happen in the offseason. I look at a team like the Cowboys, who seem to have decent personnel on defense, at least on paper, yet can't seem to stop a nosebleed. Then you have a team like the Vikings, whose defense is dominant and it feels like they're winning games almost single-handedly. How much of the difference between these two teams comes down to personnel and how much is a result of Flores being an elite defensive schemer? Is Flores just getting much more out of his players than other defensive coordinators? Or is Minnesota's personnel that elite? I think most Vikings fans would agree with me. that they, just going back to the Zimmer era, had way better players,

44:56 had impact Pro Bowl elite guys. When you have, on a weekly basis, blitzing between 80 and 85% of the offensive snaps, I mean, that's unprecedented. I don't think anyone else in the league is approaching 50%. And that shows you it's kind of like basketball teams. Like, hey, we don't have in college. Like, we don't have Kentucky's personnel.

45:19 We don't have Duke's personnel. So we're just going to press your full court. We're going to run and gun and shoot a bunch of threes. Like, you have to come up with a different scheme. Mike Leach, back to Hal Mummey. Like, why did they create this? crazy spread passing offense because they did not have the players of the top schools. So the only way to compete with them was to have a point of difference. And I think Flores, who, one, studied and coached under Belichick for like decades, multiple decades. I think he got hired in what, like 04 or 03? And then he was with them basically until he left for the Dolphins job. He was with them, I think, like 15 plus years. So maybe not two decades, but a long, long time. And his

46:01 understanding of principles, knowledge of, I would say, spaces, coverage, run schemes, gap control, all that stuff, he's going to know it pretty well. You couldn't even add up the hours, how much time he spent in the meeting room with Belichick talking defense. And clearly he's put his own spin on it, but his knowledge of what he's doing, he couldn't understand it anymore. where Christian Parker's a good example of, they hired him because he runs Vic Fangio's scheme, but he's not Vic Fangio. Like Flores is running Brian Flores' defense.

46:42 Christian Parker's running someone else's defense. And if you Google it, it's not like Christian Parker studied under Vic Fangio for 20 years. So the complete, and part of that defense is actually not being that aggressive. It's just literally being in the right spots. And a lot of times, Vic Fangio's best units have been, I got better players than you.

47:07 Because I'm not going to blitz very often. We run, I would say, a handful of coverages. And we kind of do the same thing every time. But we have better Jimmys than the Joes. And we have mastered our assignment. When I'm watching the Cowboys, it's like DBs are passing off wide receivers to Eric. Even the multiple touchdowns yesterday, it's like no one's even around the guy. So clearly your team, and this is, you know, sometimes coaches, they're like, well, I spent so much time grinding tape, throwing a Copenhagen Diet Coke and just watch tape in a dark room, hours on end, till the cows come home. It's like, well, that's good. Glad you know it. Do your players know it?

47:50 Because if they don't, what a waste of time. And whatever he's telling these guys, they just don't know. It's one thing if you're in a one-on-one situation and you just get mossed. Or remember a couple weeks ago when Darnold hit JSN and Mansard Delanes all over him. It's like, what's he going to do? It's good coverage, great throw.

48:11 It's like basketball. Sometimes great offense is just going to beat great defense. Or good defense. It's another thing where it's like, I'm throwing it to a wide-open player. that's just killing grass by himself. And that to me, it's like when you watch Flores' defense, like yesterday, you're playing the Lions. They have, Jamison Williams has really become a high-end player. And there's, he's just going to be faster than you. And same thing with Gibbs. Like he is right now one of the best players in the NFL.

48:41 And there's not much you can do. He's better than you in a one-on-one situation. But early on in that game, he's throwing curveballs. It had Goff swimming. It's just hard to handle. Clearly, the downfall of the Vikings is the offense. It's not Flores. So I just think Flores is pretty unique. I just like my coordinator, whether it's my DC or my head coach, that to be his baby. Like McVay.

49:10 No one goes, well, McVay just copies Shanahan. No, McVay has his own offense. Andy Reid's offense has always changed. Sean Payton's offense is his baby. It doesn't mean it's always going to work, but his knowledge of that, it's impossible for him to just hand that off to somebody. I think part of it is you have to create your own playbook. Mike McDonald is not running Wink Martindale's playbook.

49:37 I'm sure if you asked him over some beers, he would tell you all the things that he learned under him, that he loved, and then he's made it the things that he philosophically believes in. And that's created the Seattle defensive playbook. Same thing with Ben Johnson. They run Ben Johnson's offense. And I'm always hesitant when you hire Sean Mannion.

49:58 He's kind of running someone else's offense. Now, he probably has good knowledge of it, but it's also hard to have a good knowledge when you haven't been coaching that long. There's a big transition, in my opinion, from playing to coaching. Why is weight always a topic of discussion for McCarthy, but not Andy? I understand that Andy's resume far exceeds Mike, but Andy is arguably heavier. Andy's lost some LBs. Not to mention Tomlin and Sean Payton aren't necessarily slim, like your man crush Liam Cohen. I'm just trying to find an excuse why McCarthy... gets labeled this average coach when his resume is like all these other guys. And the only thing I ever come up on is like, well, he doesn't really look the part. And Andy's been big

50:44 his entire career. There's a softness with Andy when it comes to the media and just his interactions with people. I've never been able to understand it. I don't. I'm just trying. I'm kind of grasping at straws. Because would McCarthy be treated the same if he looked like Kevin O'Connell? Because you give me these other examples, but they're treated completely different. John Harbaugh, Jim Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, Sean Payton, Andy Reid. None of those get treated like Mike McCarthy.

51:13 Everyone's almost stunned. Mike McCarthy's 6-2? Well, yeah. Most seasons of his career, he probably starts 6-2. That's actually the norm. It'd be abnormal if he was... you know, three and five. This is usually what he does. I don't know. He just, I've never been able to wrap my head around it. Colin used the example that he's like a Midwestern police officer.

51:39 I don't have a great answer for it. I do think there's something to the way him and Aaron broke up and he was labeled like the meathead coach and Aaron was like the intellectual savant. At least that's what the way it got portrayed at the time. And it's like carried with him. Because again, he went to Dallas three straight years. Won 36 games in three years. Won the division two out of three years. No one talks about that. I would like to know why you're so hard on Bo Nix. The Broncos got through the hardest six game stretch four and two. They now lead the division after beating the Chiefs. I understand the questionable play at times. But it seems like it completely discredits his undeniable success in your eyes. They are down in every game.

52:25 And I would say they're down in these games because of him. Like, everyone has a bad game. Everyone has a bad podcast. Everyone listening has a bad day at work. It's part of life. Every one of his games looks the exact same. And I think we have to acknowledge, this goes back to college, he's not a very good pocket quarterback. And part of these comebacks come from him just making plays, which there is no denying that Bo Nix can run around and make a play. I think I saw today his passer rating when trailing in the fourth quarter is like the best in NFL history. He has all these comeback wins, including yesterday. But like, why are they always in this situation when they're clearly just a good team? Because during the week or during the game, Right?

53:15 Definitely during the week, they build a normal game plan, and then it doesn't function that well for him. And then at the end, he just has to run around and make things happen, which he does, which he gets credit for. His comeback victories are because of his playmaking down the stretch, which I would say typically is him running around outside the pocket. When he has to make a throw inside the pocket, I think you would all agree that he doesn't excel. Here's the other thing, Bronco fans.

53:46 If you're older than like 20, you saw Peyton Manning. So you have seen a great quarterback orchestrate an offense. I think we'd all come to agreement that this is not even in that ballpark of like, how do you watch these games and go, what is going on? I've never seen anything quite like it. But I have come to grips with, he's not a very good pocket quarterback.

54:12 He's not going to be accurate from within the pocket. There is an element of like Russell Wilson. Maybe Russell felt a little more magical, but like you could never call Russell a bad player when he was struggling within the pocket, when he was making plays outside the pocket. And when you post like all the comments, if we ever do a social cut of like, this is not sustainable.

54:36 People have been like, this is the team for the last two years. Well, yeah. This is how you're going to play quarterback for the next 10 years with this guy? You're going to give him $ 200 million? Yes. I'm not acting like the guy's a scrub, but we have to all come to an agreement that he's the most clutch quarterback in the NFL. Well, he's literally in this situation every week because of his own undoing. And he made Davis Webb, everyone's like, he's an idiot. The offense looks the exact same because you just run normal plays and he can't consistently do it. It's like, well, he wins.

55:09 And he makes some big plays with like five, six minutes left to go in the game. So maybe you just, hey, listen, if you get a fourth quarter, if you could just have him for the fourth quarter, he'd be your pick. You do not want him quarter one, quarter two, or quarter three. I mean, what do you want me to say?

55:28 Josh Allen, 2.0. Hey, John, me again. Love to hear your thoughts on Kevin O'Connell and if he should be on the hot seat. All the missed quarterbacks and now choosing Kyler and getting rid of JJ and using him as a scapegoat. When do people start calling first job? 6-1. Listen, the J.J. McCarthy thing, let's see how it plays out over the next month. Let's let him breathe a little bit.

55:55 Is that what you winos do? Take off the cork and go, let it breathe. Let it breathe. We just got to let it breathe. But that could look worse and worse. I think I saw Kyler's hurt, hamstring, which he's not playing well regardless. Yeah, I... If he wins 11 games, you guys are in the playoffs. The coach's job is to win. It just is. Now, can we remove the quarterback guru label? Can we remove, you know, his statement that everyone was just loved? I mean, the media ate it out of, you know, they couldn't get enough of it. The quarterbacks don't fail organizations. Organizations fail quarterback.

56:36 If JJ becomes just a solid player this year for the Giants and they make the playoffs, It'll be a tough one for... Kevin's going to have to delete that off the internet. But if he wins double-digit games during the playoffs, he's 100% not getting fired. He's another guy, if he gets fired, he would immediately get hired. Broncos fan here. Love the show. But... At what point is everyone going to realize the fourth quarter comebacks are a feature to compensate for their flaw? Peyton knows that Knicks can't slice and dice all four quarters. So he wisely lets his D keep them close and lets Knicks cook for a quarter. It's not luck, it's the plan. Why wouldn't you just run the helter-skelter offense then all game

57:31 long And be up by 10 in a lot of these games instead of being down. I do wonder, and only Sean and Davis Webb and the other players on the team truly know this. Does he look pretty good at practice running the normal plays within the pocket? And then in the game he is not completing them? And skipping wheel routes and stuff like that? Like, is that happening?

57:58 And you go, God, he's getting into practice and then the game comes and it doesn't. Or do the practices look like the games? Because you can't, a lot of his comeback stuff, you're not really running in practice, which he gets credit for. He's an instinctive player. He clearly, whatever he does to keep his heart rate low and stay under control and stay calm in the moment, like that is a positive attribute. We see a ton of guys that are down 10, 14 points in these games week after week, never ever come back, never make any plays.

58:31 I'm not trying to shit on the guy, but we also have to like call it for what it is. He plays on an extremely talented team with a Hall of Fame coach who is also known as an offensive genius. And every single week, his games kind of look the same. Every single week for years. It's crazy. If they win the Super Bowl like this, it would be one of the most incredible accomplishments I've ever seen. I'm just not a huge fan of inaccurate quarterbacks within the pocket. It's why I was kind of iffy on Caleb early. It's like, this, because I'm a big sustained guy with a young player.

59:12 Because it's like, well, I'm going to have to give this guy a big contract. I'm going to build my franchise around him. Can you just build a franchise around just a guy that plays well two drives a game in the fourth quarter? Harder to have a high level defense when you're paying your quarterback a lot of money.

59:30 I have moved my opinion of what quarterbacks used to look like to what they are now. The dual threat guy. The run around make play guy. That's a huge component of all these players. But I also like that player to be able to dominate when he has a nice pocket to deliver strikes down the field. And I think we would all agree that when he releases the ball out of the pocket you don't have that much faith a lot of times balls are going to be completed.

1:00:03 A lot of Denver Vikings talk today. This is on Kevin O'Connell. Did they think they were the only reason they had success with Sam Darnold? Did they think that they could replicate the success they had with Darnold and any other quarterback? I'm staring at the Lions-Vikings score and can't come to any other conclusion that with a decent quarterback, the Vikes would be a heavy Super Bowl favorite. Isn't that what the Seahawks did last year? Darnold plus dominant defense? Well, I will support... When they drafted J.J. McCarthy, they did it a month after they signed Sam Darnold. They signed Sam Darnold in free agency. The draft is a month or month and a week later. So Sam Darnold had never played a snap for them when they drafted J.J. McCarthy. And...

1:01:00 I think anytime a guy gets injured, you just rely on the hope and the trajectory in your mind what you had for the guy when you picked him really high. So JJ's injured that entire season. Sam dominates. But that ends on the negative note. So when you're making the transition and the Seattle Seahawks offer a big contract, you go, we just picked this guy high. Probably a little higher in our own supply, given that Cousins and then now Sam, we know what we're doing. We can do it with this guy. But there is just, I would say, the risk there is you don't know. There is no evidence in the NFL that this guy is going to be able to play well. And then you start struggling. Your personalities start clashing a little bit. Egos get involved. You

1:01:51 probably resent him a little bit because maybe he doesn't carry himself like Cousins and Sam. Well, of course, he's young. He's immature. Those guys were older, had been through the ringer. So it's a natural, I would say, collision course of personalities. And it just doesn't work. I completely understand why they gave up on him. We're not going to deal with this. Now, your best option was Kyler Murray. I'll defend him here too.

1:02:18 What were their other options? Signed Gardner Minshew? You don't have many options where they found themselves. They are very, very lucky that Flores in the defense is that good because it could be worse. Think about that. It could be worse. But I don't think it was cocky. I just think it's a natural move that most teams would have made in their shoes. Mike from Mobile, Alabama, home of the Senior Bowl. Been there a couple times. I'm 31 and old enough to remember when Manning and Brady ran an offense as if they created it. Checks of the line, route changes based on coverage they see. Watching today, it doesn't seem like any quarterbacks of this generation have as much command of their offensive playbook in order to

1:03:13 take advantage of the coverage. Am I crazy? There's probably something to that. Now, when you close your eyes and you think of Brady and Manning, most of us remember them in the peak of their powers in their 30s. So, you know, when you think, honestly, the last images I have of Peyton really dominate, we're in Denver. The guy had played in the NFL for how many, he got drafted, what, 98?

1:03:41 When did he get to Denver, 12 or 13? You know, Tom Brady, like his separation era... really where he became compared to Peyton, came after Randy got there, and then really once those guys left and him and Julian and Gronk just dominated. Those guys had both decade plus of experience. So I do think there is some of that with when you watch Josh Allen play, when you watch Patrick Mahomes play, their command of the offense. But you're also talking like, I mean, I would say Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are two of the most unique sports figures of my life. I mean, it's like, well, no one really shoots quite like Curry. Well, there is no other Steph Curry. There aren't many Peyton Mannings and Tom Brady's

1:04:32 or what Aaron Rodgers became in Green Bay. I mean, you're talking about the greatest quarterback of all time, two other guys that have a very good argument to be two of the other top five guys. Right? Mahomes, I think, Still has a long runway to really solidify that. Josh Allen, if he wins a Super Bowl or two in Buffalo.

1:04:54 But yeah, I mean, it takes a lot of reps. There just aren't many of them. There just aren't. Can you discuss the following? It's widely considered that the most important position is quarterback and that the best quarterbacks are in the AFC. But with that being the case, why does it feel the best teams are coming out of the NFC? I feel like the Seahawks, Niners, and Bears all feel closer to a Super Bowl than any team in the AFC. Your thoughts? Well, I'm recording the mailbag before the Monday night game. I will say this, that, I mean, Purdy is an MVP candidate. Caleb, assuming he's healthy, is probably going to win an MVP. You know, Sam Darnold, I think we'd probably, depending on who you asked, last

1:05:57 year had games where he was a top 6-7 quarterback and had games where he was like 15-20. but he had the best defense in the league. And then down the stretch, he had a running back that became one of the best running backs in the league. And a coordinator who became a head coach and the best defensive coach.

1:06:16 There are a lot of variables, right? Purdy has become one of the better quarterbacks in the NFL. He also has Kyle Shanahan, one of the best coaches in the NFL. Look at Caleb. He's got Ben Johnson, who is easily one of the best coaches in the NFL. He's got Dennis Allen, who's an excellent DC. So all this stuff factors in. Where it's like Joe Burrow, he's got Zach Taylor, who I think most people think is pretty average. Now he does have the two wide receivers who are incredible.

1:06:47 You know, Josh Allen has no defense. Mahomes has no wide receivers. So I think they're just... One thing in football that's different than these, definitely like basketball, for example, if you just have one of the best quarterbacks, like if football was basketball, Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Josh, they would all, like you would just need to get them some decent running mates and that team would dominate.

1:07:14 Where football, you are dependent on a lot of humans. How about all these kickers? I mean, all these kickers are missing kicks left and right. The NFL is not college football. You're going to play in a lot of tight games. When Butker misses the kick, it's like, that's a big deal. I got a baby boy on the way.

1:07:35 May 2027. Congratulations, my man. Our first child. Any advice? I would... So you got some time. Let's see, it's November, December. You got like, what, five months? I would really enjoy... your guys time together, assuming she's having a pregnancy where she's not just like bedridden or in shambles, like just enjoy the downtime, the ability to go to restaurants, the ability to just do whatever you want, whenever you want in terms of like, take a nap on the weekend, go for a walk. Your life in a great way, just dramatically changes. And, One thing I've learned from having a child and being around a lot of my family, my cousins, my brother, my close friends, all having kids, until you have it, no one can tell you anything

1:08:31 to get ready for it. But your life just, you honestly have way, you feel way, I would say the purpose in your life. You feel like more, I don't even know if fulfilled is the right way to put it, but there's definitely just, Something that you carry that you just did not carry before. You've almost been an independent contractor most of your life and then you feel the the weight of being like the, the CEO or president of the company, which is your family, which is a motivating, inspiring.

1:09:06 There's like a level of love and anxiety and stuff that I feel feels that I didn't even know I have that I get on now on a daily basis, but there's no preparing for it. Like I'm not, There's no handbook for this. But I would really try to enjoy your time together while it's just you two. You take for granted, in the middle of the Saturday, do you want to go get lunch? Do you want to go for a walk? I don't know where you live, but hey, do you want to go this weekend, get in the car and drive three hours to the mountains?

1:09:48 or get on a plane and go to San Diego or Miami, or again, it all depends where you live, but just things that are not really options, especially early on when the baby's young, or even if they are options, it just becomes a lot more difficult. So just, I would say really, really soak this time in, uh, because it's, it's challenging on the relationship in the sense of you're not sleeping as much, uh, it's a lot on her.

1:10:20 I mean, it is, it's, it's very taxing. The breastfeeding, the, the connection and the baby's need of her compared to you is, is just different, especially early on as they get it. Like Jack now is becoming a little more of a dual threat. It's crazy. My mother-in-law was just in town and he's so calm for her. I mean, he just, he's just so relaxed with her mom. They'll just chill. And then she leaves and he just turns back into like a Tasmanian devil meets Wolverine meets like grizzly bear. But congratulations. It comes up on you fast.

1:10:59 Enjoy it. Enjoy this time. Soak it in. If the Ravens miss the playoffs again, do you think Bashadi would fire DaCosta? And if he did, considering you've said about DaCosta being a different kind of guy and not well-liked around the league, do you think he'd have a second chance? I don't know if he's not well-liked around the league.

1:11:37 I do think his personality is probably less. I don't know like his click with other GMs and how close, like you get to know some of these GMs. They have like two or three really close friends as other GMs. And those are like literally like some of their best friends in the world. You know, I, I think DaCosta is kind of a, a lone operator and I could be wrong on that, but clearly the way he's handled some of these things over the years, which owners like though, like, the owner wasn't mad at being like, you know, having second thoughts on this, let's not make this trade. You think Bashadi was mad about that? Well, hey, if you don't want it, fucking send him home. So what's funny is the way sometimes your peers feel about you, right?

1:12:28 Maybe it, I'm sure Spytek was furious, but his owner wasn't, the guy that signs his checks. And I think the other owners don't hate it either. So to be a good GM, if I was going to defend DaCosta, Like, to be a good leader in a lot of industries, you're going to piss people off. So, yeah, I think he'd have a really, really good chance to get rehired.

1:12:53 But I don't think he gets fired. I think... This still feels a little bit like a stretch, but let's just assume Lamar Jackson is on another team in the somewhat near future. I think he would get another quarterback. But he was... by all accounts, John Harbaugh's best friend. I don't think I remember John Harbaugh ever saying DaCosta's name since he left. Which I don't blame him. Anytime you get in these breakup situations, you feel a guy backstabbed you or pushed you out or went into survival mode.

1:13:30 And listen, people go into survival mode in jobs that pay a lot less than these. So once you get a position, a power that pays a premium... DaCosta ain't alone. I mean, a lot of guys will do whatever it takes to keep that gig. Because there is no gig. Like, if DaCosta got fired at the end of the year, there is no guarantee that he would just be a GM in 2027. I would be a little surprised if he didn't get another opportunity, but one, GM jobs don't come open that often. It's way easier as a coach.

1:14:05 The other thing is, like, When a lot of people around the NFL think of their success, it's really tied more to Ozzie Newsome. What's the pie chart over the last, because DaCosta's been there the whole time too, 25 years. Let's just go to the Harbaugh era. Ozzie Newsome, John Harbaugh, Eric DaCosta. It feels like Eric DaCosta would get the smallest amount of pie. And now he can't, all the pie chart of success or failure feels like it's kind of toward him. He was a GM. He hired a mentor.

1:14:41 He's built this team now for the last several years. This is his squad. You could also say, well, I mean, Lamar this year rolls his ankle and then breaks his thumb or whatever. Most people aren't winning in that situation. Tough deal. Why do we not see more games flexed out of prime time? I get that Philly and Washington are big markets, but that first half was not very fun to watch. One thing that I think people don't quite understand about flexing is Sunday night football doesn't get unlimited, we can just take a game from the other partners.

1:15:26 So if you think about yesterday, Denver against the Chiefs. That, on paper, or Lions against the Vikings, is a much better Sunday night game. Everyone would agree. Going into the day. But CBS and Fox aren't just going to give up that property. So I don't know the exact rules, but there are certain games that CBS and Fox do not have to give up. Sometimes it's out of their hands.

1:15:59 I think the NFL gets a certain amount they can do. But NBC does not just have an unlimited amount of, we can just take this game from the other partners. Because if you're CBS and you're putting Jim Nantz and you're like, I don't want to trade you. I don't want to send these guys to one of the other crappy games that day. So that plays a role. Fox and CBS spend a lot of money too. And if you notice those two games, like where were Tom Brady and Kevin Burkhardt? Detroit. Where were Jim Nance and J.J. Watt? Denver.

1:16:33 Like they would not have traded for Washington and Philadelphia. Zero chance. And they just don't get unlimited trades. I'd have to chat GPT at the exact mechanisms in which it worked. But I know that plays a factor. I've been a listener for a few years and I'm surprised that you moved away from one of your core values in regards to your analysis of Bo Nix. For years, you have talked about winning being the only thing that matters.

1:17:06 Bo is now six wins away from moving into first all time in wins for a quarterback in their first three seasons. He was one freak injury away from the Super Bowl. Has your sports perspective changed And now winning is no longer enough. And players have to play at a certain level for style points. While playing for you to consider them a winner and not a quote, UFL quarterback.

1:17:34 I do not consider Bo Nix a UFL quarterback. But I do think there's a fine line of like, if you look at the best quarterbacks over the last 20 plus years, right? Most of them win a lot. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson when he plays. And I think everyone would be on the same page of being like, guy's a winner. Because he's a winning player. Consistently. Week in, week out. When those guys are healthy. Right? Baker Mayfield won a game yesterday.

1:18:10 He went 0 for 3. Even though he had a better passing rating than Michael Penix. Incredible stat. which I don't even know how it's possible. I've never quite understood passer ratings, but regardless, he won the game. And now there's a lot of momentum for them. I don't think anyone would be stunned if Tampa kind of gets on a run here and ends up 9-8 and wins the division.

1:18:36 If you watch Joe Burrow, who won, and Baker Mayfield, who won, and Bo Nix, who won, do those guys all it's like all the same? And while I do believe that wins and losses as a quarterback, like good quarterbacks don't lose over the course of their career. Unless you're like Matt Stafford and you're in a disastrous situation in Detroit. I would also say that Denver's situation is pretty incredible. They have a Hall of Fame coach, They have studs everywhere on defense. They just have a really good team. They have a really good team. And Bo Nix makes a lot of losing plays. And then he makes up for it by making miraculous plays in the big moments, which is important. Which the clutch gene, as Skip Bayless would say, he's got ice in his veins.

1:19:32 There is no arguing that when all the chips are in the middle of the table, your back's against the wall, it's like, hey, we better get it done right now or we are going to lose. He typically comes through. And I think a lot of that is him just running around and making plays, which he's great at. But like last year, Caleb Williams, he did some of the most miraculous things I've ever seen in my entire life. Oh, and I've been watching football that I can remember for 30 plus years. But playing like that, for Caleb to become a Hall of Fame player, He was going to have to figure out the little things to be a great player. Play within the pocket. Be accurate within the pocket.

1:20:16 Be accurate on easy throws that sometimes he was missing. And then this year, when he's been on the field... And again, I haven't seen the Seattle game. Which, who knows? It's not going to be easy. He became... He improved on it. Like, you saw a tangible improvement. I say this all the time about Lamar. The Lamar who, before he rolled his ankle against the Titans... is a dramatically better player than the guy you saw the first couple years of his career. One of those years, he won the MVP in the league. And this version is in a different universe than that player because he keeps improving.

1:20:54 Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rod, these guys got better as their career went. Now, it's a smaller sample size, but Bo Nix feels the exact same as he's been for three years now. Like, he's just the exact same player. Which he's mastered the art of just making plays in the fourth quarter. Which matters. It's why they've won these games.

1:21:14 But part of the reason they're losing is because, well, the team sucks. He's just making plays. It's because of him. So it's just... I'm not going to argue that he's like some superstar. Would Denver Bronco fans be comfortable giving him $ 200 million right now? Would you do that after this season? Even if he won the Super Bowl? He's a flawed player with a clutch gene. He's a flawed player with a clutch gene. But I also think that people think I hate the guy. Like I view him like he's Daniel Jones. Of course not. Honestly, it's kind of maddening that this guy with the physical skills that plays or feel pretty basic on the NFL level for the good players in which he's going toe-to-toe with And it feels like he just misses them constantly. I don't

1:22:10 understand it. And I think it gets back to people talking about some of his college career. Why did Oregon have him just throw behind the line of scrimmage? Because he's pretty good at just the basic stuff of just throw a guy just behind the line of scrimmage. But if you ask him to slice and dice you from within the pocket, he cannot do that. And he is no closer to doing that now than he was years ago.

1:22:31 He's the exact same. He's definitely maybe feels more comfortable running around at the NFL level. because he does it as an elite level when he's down 10 points in the fourth quarter. But are those offensive plays, or is that him just like, fuck it, I'll make something happen. But when I scheme open Jalen Waddell on a drive throw within the pocket, he's going to skip it to him.

1:22:53 He did it yesterday. And that is the type of stuff to me who's been watching football for a long time and now doing this for a living and seeing what wins and loses in the biggest moments. You've got to hit that play. It is– you're not going to always flip the coin and always get heads, and you're always going to win that game. I know he's had this incredible run, but, I mean, honestly, they easily could have lost if they don't call the offsides and they just give Mahomes a touchdown. The Broncos lose, which wouldn't have been his fault that Emmitt Johnson took it out to the 50 and they drove right down the field.

1:23:28 That's the thing with football. And coaches say this all the time. Quarterbacks, like coaches, get too much praise and they get too much criticism. And Bo Nix is clearly just, I would say, one of the most polarizing players in the NFL currently. Because he's a hard one to truly evaluate. Is he actually good? What is going on for three quarters?

1:23:57 I still don't know. I don't have the answer to you. I actually kind of do. I mean, I don't think he's comfortable playing within the pocket. That's not his skill set. And when I talk to scouting buddies and people in the league, that was kind of the knock on him going back to when he was a young player at Auburn through Oregon. You're not comfortable just having him carry you, you know, read, you know, go through your progressions one to two to three to four and just make the right decisions up and down the field. That's not what he brings to the table. He probably really is closer to Russell Wilson, you know, back in Seattle a decade ago.

1:24:31 run around and just make miracles. And he clearly makes miracles, you know, when their team's down. Week after, you know, throughout his whole career now. I think, what is that, 15 comeback victories through his first two and a half seasons? Which is crazy. But these last two years, part of the reason they're down is him. We'll end on that. Adios.

1:24:53 See you tomorrow. The Volume.