THE HERD – HOUR 2 – GREG COSELL I Rays vs Brewers - Must Watch!?

0:00 Thanks for listening to the Herd Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the Herd at foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now let's get this party started.

0:21 You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

0:26 World Series start tomorrow. Brewers raise. Hour number two. Greg Cosell in a couple of minutes. You know, it's interesting. A lot of people are saying, well, the Brewers and the Rays, will anybody watch at small markets? Well, small markets can be fascinating. Favre and Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay. Josh Allen in Buffalo. The Utah Jazz, Stockton Malone. The Utah Jazz and the Chicago Bulls got huge ratings. And everybody predicted it would be a disaster. Everybody told me that the Subway World Series, Mets and Yankees would be huge ratings. It was really bad. So when the Cubs won the World Series and the ratings were great, when the Cubs won, it wasn't because of Chicago's market size.

1:09 It was because it was a great losing history, the lovable loser Cubs. So I think market size can be really, really overrated. Hell, the last time the Celtics got into the finals, the ratings weren't very good. And part of it is Tatum doesn't have much of a personality. It was just kind of a three-point shooting roster. Tatum's kind of quiet. It wasn't a fascinating team. The Warriors with Steph and Draymond are fascinating. Kobe and Shaq were fascinating.

1:35 Michael Jordan's glamour and greatness is fascinating. People like the Utah Jazz. Small market, Stockton Malone, Feisty, gave MJ some individual game troubles. So I don't, you know, indie films make a lot of money. Backroom, Obsession, Parasite. There's all sorts of stories in Hollywood where you don't get big money, but it's great storytelling. I do think the Brewers, think about this, the Brewers faced the Dodgers. It was a sweep.

2:01 It was a non-competitive series. It was the highest rated NLCS in a decade.

2:06 Why?

2:06 That's not just the Dodgers. The Brewers are a lot of hits, a lot of bases, stealing bases, a lot of confidence. They'll bunt it. Doubles, singles, bases, moving. They're a fun watch. So I remember when Toronto faced the Dodgers a year ago and everybody said it was going to be bad for Fox because Toronto is a Canadian city and Canadian cities don't count on our ratings. It ended up doing great. Toronto outplayed them. Toronto had power.

2:34 Toronto had swagger. Toronto out hit them. Toronto should have won. And the Dodgers pulled all these wacky levers in game seven. It ended up being an incredibly fascinating series. It was one of the best World Series I have seen since Red Sox Reds in the 70s. It was unbelievable. And Canada... usually is bad news for TV networks. So, I mean, my take is I don't know what it'll do. I Tampa doesn't even have a brand. I'm not even sure Tampa's popular in Tampa. Um, but I, I think Milwaukee is a good watch and America thinks that because that Dodger getting swept non-competitive series, even the final game, a lot of people watched it. So I, I, I don't know.

3:15 I think Neither of these teams has won a World Series. Brewers got there in 82. Rays have been there. It's going to be one of these cities' first World Series titles. I would say I think the National League is much better. I think the Brewers are better. I think it's a six-game series. I'll take Milwaukee. But I don't know what the ratings will be. You know, I think any time in baseball you get Yankees, Dodgers, or Giants, or Braves, there are these, you know, Phillies feel big to me.

3:44 But a lot of times nobody thought Jordan facing the Jazz was going to do anything, and it ended up being hugely popular. So the Subway Series was a clunker. Everybody thought Mets, Yankees was fascinating. Well, it was if you lived east of the Hudson. For the rest of us, it wasn't. And with that, Greg Cosell, 47 years, NFL Films, now joining us live. All right, tonight, Drake May, Caleb Williams, Bears, Patriots.

4:13 So I will say, coming back from injury, I said on the air, I said, I just don't know if Caleb's going to be rusty. I mean, they'd been using Case Keenum, Bajent, and I'm like, and then I watched the first half, and I'm like, That's as good as he's played. I mean, in terms of completion, what did the film say on Caleb's, you know, 31-7 lead? What did the film say on him?

4:38 Yeah, and I think too, Colin, that's a case where the coach, Ben Johnson, helped tremendously because early on in that game, you just saw a lot of quick game throws, rhythm throws, get him comfortable right away, get completions, easy completions by NFL standards. And then he settles into the game and he's comfortable. I believe he was 12 for his first 12. And not many of those throws were difficult throws by NFL standards. But when you do watch him, the one thing that really stands out, and I've always been a believer in this, and I think you have to play like that in the NFL.

5:08 He clearly has arm arrogance. He is willing to turn it loose when it's there.

5:12 And he can sit on his back foot and drive the ball at the intermediate and intermediate and deeper levels. That ability that he has to do that, that's special. It almost looks like he doesn't even need any core torque or weight transfer. He can drive the ball with velocity. And that's something that not a lot of quarterbacks can do.

5:32 Drake Mays has been on a three-game heater. Everybody sold their stock, and we kept saying, folks, slow down. He's young. Give a kid a chance. I said that was C.J. Stroud. He's good. You've got to get protection. You've got to get guys healthy. How do you view the Bears? Is there a way to attack Drake Mays? Is there things that give him trouble as a young quarterback?

5:53 Well, I think when you look at a Dennis Allen defense, he is very good with his pressure concepts. And now as the league is, you see so many teams with pressure fronts, meaning six, seven on the ball, because you have to count for those people in protection. And Dennis Allen is very good at that. And he does so many things off of that. The big concern, which of course is much different than it was a week ago versus Michael Penix, Colin, is that Drake May has legs and Drake May can make plays with his legs and And actually, over the last couple of weeks, that's become a little more part of his game, which, of course, we know it was a year ago when he had the sensational season. So that's just something that Dennis Allen

6:33 has to factor into how he chooses tactically to approach it. But he's very, very good with his pressure schemes. And it'll be interesting because I think I don't know if Morgan Moses, the right tackle, is going to play this week. So you're going to have a rookie Caleb Lomu. And once you have rookies and the cohesion is not quite the same and it just becomes different from a quarterback's perspective, too, because he's aware that there could be issues.

6:58 OK, I think this is as good as any game this week. I also think Seattle, Kansas City is fascinating. So Kansas City schedule gets a little tough now. So let's talk Kenneth Walker. You know, I defended Seattle saying, listen, they pay JSN. They pay Devin Witherspoon. Those are top of the market guys. Kenneth Walker had been there. He wasn't even their goal line back. You win a Super Bowl.

7:22 Everybody wants to eat. You have to make these tough decisions. He's been a great fit for Kansas City, who was desperate at running back to the last four or five years. They had no run game. So I understand what both teams did. Is Kansas City, have they changed concepts? Is it play calling? This offense feels more physical. Not just, I mean, just feels like a different, like almost Andy said, okay, this is what I've done. Now this is what I'm going to do. Are you surprised by their, I mean, are you surprised by how good Walker has fit? And he kind of runs the offense.

7:58 Well, they've clearly, they're a physical running team.

8:01 I mean, they predominantly run zone, mid zone, outside zone, and they predominantly run to the strong side where the tight end is, and they like to run to the left. And what that does is if you run zone to the left side, This might sound crazy, but you need your right guard to be able to execute backside cutoff blocks.

8:20 And they've got one of the best right guards in the league in Trey Smith. And he is so critical to what they do. But this is a first down running team. Colin, when will we have said that about Andy Reid?

8:30 I know.

8:30 That they're a first down running team. And they are phenomenal running the ball. on first down. I mean, I think Walker's averaging over six yards a carry on first down.

8:40 With a meaningful number of first.

8:41 Down rushes, this is not one of those things where, oh, let's give it to Walker once in a while. He's become the foundation of how they approach offense on first down, and we would never have thought that about an Andy Reid offense.

8:52 That's so good. So good. I've defended Sam Darnold saying last year he had 120 passer rating on play action. This year it's 52. When they lost Charbonnet and Price... He's now on kind of bounce around the league guys, third, fourth team guys, and Sam doesn't have a play action game like last year. And he now tends to, in a one receiver offense, he forces it and he makes mistakes.

9:17 That's what I see. Does the film say it's not about the lack of run prowess, it's just Darnold's bad decision making? What's the film say?

9:26 Well, no, no, no. I think, look, obviously.

9:30 Look what happened last week, and this has sort of been symptomatic a bit as this year has progressed. He was asked to drop back over 50 times, Colin, in a close game. They did not run the ball, so what happened was, I forget the number of dropbacks, it might have been 55, only six of those were play action.

9:48 That is not who they are.

9:49 Last year, they were absolutely one of the best and most voluminous play action passing teams in the league. And if I'm not mistaken, Darnold had the highest yards per attempt in the play.

10:00 Pass game.

10:00 That's the way they got their big plays. So they're out of balance now. They're a little out of whack. in how they're just approaching offense. And again, they're coming off a bye, I believe. And they need to sort of, not a bye, I guess they played on Thursday.

10:14 They need to resettle.

10:16 They need to kind of get back to, and they have a new coordinator, obviously, but he is a run guy because he came from the Niners. So they need to sort of settle back and run the ball. Now, granted, they don't have a great back, but you can still run the ball meaningfully. Doesn't mean you have to run for 180 yards, but they need to get back to that balance.

10:33 So and have the play.

10:35 Action pass game be foundationally how they approach the pass game.

10:39 You just validated all I've said all week defending Darnold. So I'm very pat myself on the back. This is what I've been saying for a week.

10:47 He did make a very bad decision, obviously, on the final interception. But when you ask a quarterback to drop back that many times, Colin, not every decision is going to be perfect.

10:57 OK, so San Francisco's got a one of those games that you may think, OK, Niners going to go to Atlanta, beat the Falcons. That's good. And it's like, watch out. Be John Robinson. You know, I saw a few of those older Niners limping off the field. This is a tough spot. Is there a way? to stop Bijan Robinson or is it one of those listen we're not going to let him run for 220 but he's going to get 115 and that's just the reality of it how do you defend him because right now on any Sunday he's the best back in the league sometimes by a stretch.

11:30 Well, I think with Robinson, when you play that team, the starting point, and of course, they were not able to do it last week because the score got out of hand way too quickly. But you have to defend the outside zone run game. Outside zone is the foundation of what they do. Robinson is probably the best outside zone runner in the league. And you have to start there because if you cannot defend that, then you're in for a long day. Now, obviously, Penix is not a quarterback that's going.

11:55 To move around. You know where he's going to be.

11:57 And the 49ers, Colin, and I'm sure you've noticed, their defense has been very good this year with a lot of players who may not, beyond Fred Warner, and obviously Bosa's been out, but beyond Fred Warner, there are not a lot of household names on that defense, but they are playing really, really well. Their safeties are playing really well.

12:16 And that's a position in this league. I remember a number of years ago, people would say, oh, you can get safeties anywhere.

12:21 That is not true anymore.

12:23 You have to have good safeties to play defense in this league the way the game has evolved. And they have Jair Brown, who's played at a high level. Malik Mustaf is kind of an old school missile safety, made a couple of really big plays in important critical situations in their last game. So they are a very good defense and they've been able to rush the quarterback from the interior.

12:43 And that's a big deal.

12:45 So the Dallas Green Bay game was pretty instructive. I said, it's one thing to say you support Brian Schottenheimer as an owner. It's another after that game flying with Stephen Jones on your private jet saying, what do we got here? So Dallas had extra time to prepare. Dak Prescott, CeeDee Lamb, George Pickens, Packers missing, three top defenders, and Dallas had five first downs with an offensive coach in the first half.

13:12 That's not good enough. I mean, Greg, I don't like, you know, I'm not here to rip coaches. That was an energy-less game. I didn't think it was very intentional. I mean, I said, I just said, that's got to be on coaching at some time. Dak Prescott's proven he can move the chains. What did you see on film with Dallas' offense?

13:32 Here's what I'll tell you about the Cowboys, and think about this. And it gets back, you know, you've spoken about the run game with the Seahawks and other teams, but think of it this way. Last year on first down, Javonta Williams had over 150 rushes. He averaged 5.1 yards per carry on first down.

13:50 Because I did a deep dive this week.

13:51 I was trying to figure out the Dallas offense. You know what it is this year? He has over 50 carries on first down this year. He's averaging 3.5. That's a 1.6 yard per difference on first down. You know what that does to your offense? It changes the entire game. Dak Prescott has had the most dropbacks of any quarterback in.

14:11 The league this year. It's too many. It's too many.

14:15 So their offense, again, another offense that's out of whack. It's easy to sit here and say, that, oh, they have great receivers, but you can't throw the ball that much.

14:23 And the thing is, is they don't get light boxes.

14:26 You know, I mean, they get light boxes all the time and they can't run because teams are playing on the back end. They want their two safeties deep to help on the outside with Lamb and Pickens. and they still can't run the ball effectively. So that is a big deal for them, and it's changing the game because now you can't control the pace and tempo of the game.

14:45 So now you put way too much pressure on your defense, and we know about their defense. So there's a domino effect to everything if you can't run the ball and you can't control the game in any meaningful way.

14:56 So Green Bay's defense, even without Micah Parsons, they lost Jeff Halfley, a great D coordinator to the Dolphins. I worried about Green Bay's defense. Is it a symptom of who they've played? Because now it's Detroit. That's a different ballgame. Goff doesn't throw picks. Starr running back. Detroit's a handful.

15:15 So do you look at Green Bay on film and go, oh, there's some pressure packages here? Or do you just say, well, it's a symptom of who they've played. The defense is still average.

15:27 I'll tell you, look, they could go into Detroit. You know Detroit with Goff and those receivers at home. They could put up 30 against anybody. So this week's game I don't think is going to tell the story of their season. But I think that Jonathan Gannon has done a.

15:39 Really good job. You watch them.

15:41 He's pressured this year more than he ever has. And he does such a good job with how he goes about it. Because what you want to do when you pressure, obviously there's five offensive linemen.

15:51 You want to make sure that somebody else has to be in protection. Usually it's a back.

15:56 And what he does so well is by his front looks, he engages and triggers the back to have to be part of the protection. And then he works off that absolutely beautifully. He's getting more free hitters at the quarterback, which by the way, is a big trend in the league this year. Too many free hitters at quarterbacks. with all these teams with pressure fronts. But they have done a great job with that. And think about this. They've played six games. They've only allowed nine completions of 20 or more yards. So they are not allowing big plays in the passing game. And that is one of sort of the three tenets of defensive coaching in this league.

16:31 It's red zone. It's don't allow big plays. And it's third down. And they've done really, really well in those areas.

16:40 Okay, I've got to give the Raiders. The Raiders aren't winning games, but I do think I watched them play Buffalo, and there's something. You don't have to win 12 games for me to be impressed. This has been a circle-the-drain franchise. I like Spytek. I think Clint Kubiak's done a good job. They're not even having to play their number one pick yet.

16:59 I thought when they attacked the Bills with a tight end play, I thought, again, very intentional. It looked well coached. I feel like they're a draft away from about six more players. But I think Kirk Cousins, I mean, we both like Kirk Cousins. He's a pro. He's an adult.

17:15 He's played great.

17:16 Let's talk a little bit about the Raiders. They're not winning games, but it does feel different to me.

17:24 Without question, they only had the one really bad game against New England, but they played the Chiefs well, the Bills well. Think about this. Bowers came back week three. Since week three, when he came back, 83%, 83%, Colin, of their offensive snaps have had two or three tight ends on the field. That is totally... an anomaly in the National Football League. But they've become a little predictable in this way. When Bowers is on the field, it's 72% pass.

17:52 When he's off the field, it's only 46% pass. So they need to do a little self-scouting. But this is not a team that features wide receivers. So they feature tight ends because Bowers is essentially a wide receiver. And they've done a really, really good job with that. And people can say what they want, but Kirk Cousins is throwing the ball exceptionally well. He's playing good football. The problem they're having is they don't really have a run game right now. I personally, watching tape, I think Mike Washington deserves more snaps.

18:21 Yes.

18:22 I said it. I thought he was the best player drafted arguably in the fourth round. I think he's really, really good. Okay.

18:28 Yeah.

18:29 The best game last weekend was actually Houston-Jacksonville. Wildly entertaining. Excellent quarterback play. Travis Hunter and Parker Washington are just tremendous athletes here. And lost in all of it, lost in all of it is how good C.J. Stroud has been this year. A lot of people sold all their stock.

18:49 I tell you, when he's got now he's got Marvin Harrison Jr. When he's got athletes that can get a little space. I mean, you saw the film. What did you make a C.J. Stroud?

19:00 Yeah, I think he's played well this year.

19:02 One of the issues I thought he had over the last couple of years, and he's done a much better job this year, was he's essentially a pocket quarterback. So he has to be very good when there's bodies around him. And he tended to be what I would call a pressure perceiver. and then he'd play fast. I think this year, he's slowed down a little bit, and he's got a very good arm, and he throws a beautiful ball. And this year, I think he's playing as well as he's played since his rookie season. And if they can do that, then now with Marvin Harrison, and the good thing for Marvin Harrison, is he doesn't have to be their boundary X.

19:35 They've got a great boundary X in Nico Collins.

19:37 That single receiver to the short side of the field, Collins is one of the blueprints for it, so they can move Harrison around. Because, you know, Harrison's a little more smooth and fluid than Sutton, and he might work better as kind of a movement receiver than a true boundary X. But Sutton, and he might work better as kind of a movement receiver than a true boundary X.

19:56 But Stroud is making big-time throws under duress, and that's really the play I wanted to show from that game last Sunday when he hit Knoll for.

20:04 50 yards.

20:06 I mean, this was a big-time throw, so let's go to it because you're going to see the pressure, too. He gets hit the second he throws this, and this is not an easy throw. So let's just break this down because this was really well-schemed based on what they thought they were going to get defensively. So you see Stroud in the gun. It's trips to the left, and the two receivers we want to deal with are right there.

20:28 And you're going to see the coverage here. It's going to be what we call quarters. So it's basically a four-across shot.

20:34 Coverage. And quarters is a very interesting coverage. And we'll see how it plays out.

20:40 But what you're going to get from a route standpoint is you're going to get Keyshawn Booty. He's going to run the crosser. And you're going to get Jalen Knoll running the post. It's a combination that every team has. And this is really what it does is it really breaks down quarters coverage. Because what you're going to get here now is you're going to get you know, as we go in motion, the safety to that side in quarters, he's responsible for number two vertical, and that's Booty, he's number two. So now he has eyes, as you can see, on Booty, but the backside safety has to be aware of that as well, because Booty's going to run across or right into him.

21:17 So Booty's route eats up both safeties.

21:20 So now you're going to get Knoll running to the post against an outside leverage corner, who now has no help whatsoever from a safety. So this is exactly what you want against this coverage. So you go to the post, and as I said, this is just an absolutely beautiful throw, and you'll get a clearer picture just of it when you see it right here, and certainly with Knoll, the corner has outside leverage.

21:44 He can't play this.

21:45 There's no one there in the middle of the field. But the key to me on that play, too, was the fact, and we couldn't see it there, but the pressure. He got hit the second he threw that, and that's what he's done such a better job of this year, Colin.

21:57 Yeah, and Tank Dell, Harrison now just acquired. Tank Dell is playing for the first time. in a couple of years since 2024. So it's all of a sudden you got the weapons with C.J.

22:07 Stroud.

22:08 I know everybody wants to bail on these young quarterbacks, the Drake Mays and the C.J. Strouds, but if you see greatness early, it can return. It's a lot of time, the pieces, the coaching, the complementary assets around them. Greg Cosell, 47 years, makes us smarter every Thursday. Thanks, Greg.

22:27 Thanks, Colin.

22:27 Appreciate it.

22:28 You bet. Yeah, I mean, we watched Stroud as a rookie. Same with Justin Herbert. He walked in as a rookie, and Herbert's throwing for 30 touchdown passes with a bad O-line and a coach that got fired. Like, I know Herbert's talented. Same with C.J. Stroud. I know he's talented. Drake May. A lot of times it's like, you know, like Darnold this year. Oh, Clint Kubiak leaves. Kenneth Walker's gone.

22:51 They have no run game. Oh, Darnold's no good, right? Well, I know he's good. I just watched him last year win a Super Bowl and play error-free football with.

22:58 A run game. So one more herd, the herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the I heart radio app, search her to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like Fox sports radio is taking over YouTube and you can be a part of it. Just go to YouTube and search Fox sports radio, hit that subscribe button and smash that notification bell and catch all the videos from your favorite shows.

23:23 Two pros and.

23:24 A cup of jump. Dan Patrick. Colin Cowherd. Stu Gatz and company.

23:28 Live.

23:28 Covino and Rich. The Odd Couple with Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington. The Jason Smith Show with Mike Harmon. And the Ben Maller Show. Fox Sports Radio.

23:36 On YouTube.

23:37 Subscribe, hit that thumbs up icon, and comment away. Kyle Whittingham now has got several games, bringing that Utah vibe to Ann Arbor. Very interesting game. USC Wisconsin. USC's getting healthy on the offensive line. I don't know what you guys are going to do when USC starts piling up W's. All that stock. I've just walked around last couple of weeks and just grabbed some stocks, some USC stocks on the ground. A little Camp Randall. Let's see what the new USC vibe is. Very interesting. Finally getting some pieces back.

24:14 J-Mac with the news.

24:21 Be careful with the Trojans this weekend.

24:24 I believe it's called a look ahead spot for the big Halloween showdown.

24:29 Easy to overlook, Wisconsin. All right, let's go to the NBA, Colin.

24:32 Hey, listen, one of us on this set said it would be a failure. The Miami Heat debuted Giannis. He had 35. They got smoked. absolutely clowned by the Timberwolves. Minnesota, I mean, they were up 20, I believe, in every quarter. And they rolled to victory. And then, of course, Colin, interesting stuff. Multiple Heat players said that the team was not communicating on the floor. Giannis stepped in and said trust is the biggest issue they've got to improve on.

25:01 Our effort has got to be way better. It starts from here. Our effort got to be better. My effort got to be better. Our effort was not as good as in the past.

25:15 The score, 130 points in our house. I have to be better. It starts from me. I got to set the tone.

25:21 That's what leaders do. They say stuff like that. But, I mean, if you watch the Heat, it's not about Giannis. That team is not.

25:28 Good at all.

25:29 We knew they were lopsided. We knew. I mean, they wanted to keep Norman Powell. He goes to Chicago. It's like they could use some shootings. So, you know, they got Klay Thompson, but we know, you know, that's he's it's an old version of Klay Thompson. They just don't, you know, front court, good back court, not close to me. Yeah.

25:50 Andrew Wiggins does not look like the guy who was awesome with the Warriors a few years ago.

25:55 Now, listen, it's early.

25:55 You don't want to overreact. Anthony Edwards, though, was spectacular. I mean, you know, he looked like a guy who's ready to be the MVP of the league.

26:03 And it's only one game. There's a long way to go. But, man, he was electric.

26:06 He and LaMelo worked. Giannis Collin, I don't know. Listen, he got out of Milwaukee. And I was just trying to think, can you think of a superstar who got out of the spot that they were in forever, went somewhere, and then just didn't win or get better? It usually doesn't happen. Usually you leave and you get better. I don't... Colin, is this a top eight team in the East? Top eight team?

26:32 Yeah.

26:32 Front court coaching, yes.

26:34 I'm going to go ahead and say no, it's not.

26:37 But we'll check in with the Heat from time to time, see how Giannis is doing.

26:41 I would say Nick's better, Celtic's better, New York, obviously better. Orlando is better to me. I think Atlanta is probably.

26:49 A little bit.

26:49 Indiana, Detroit, Boston. There's a lot of teams.

26:53 You may be right. I'd say I'd put him at eight.

26:55 It's close. All right, let's go to the NFL. Now, this is interesting.

26:58 Saquon Barkley expected to practice today. He's been out forever with that hamstring, and he's in line, they say, to perhaps play against the Cowboys on Monday.

27:10 So there's two schools of thought here. One, Hey, you know what? Season's over.

27:14 Let's get Saquon out there, showcase him, and then trade him. Maybe we get a second, third round pick.

27:20 I don't know.

27:21 Okay?

27:21 Or, guys, what are we doing playing Saquon?

27:24 He's hurt.

27:25 We have no quarterback. Nobody's respecting the pass. Why are we rushing him back? I lean toward.

27:32 I think they're showcasing him to trade him. He's got a lot of value. We've talked about Seattle. I'll tell you right now, he walked into that Seattle running back room and he's ahead of Price and Zach Charbonnet. And then this is a showcase game at home against a weak, leaky Dallas defense.

27:48 That's a fascinating topic because there are two or three teams right now, the Colts. can very quickly be sellers on Quentin Nelson, DeForest Buckner, Bruckner. I mean, honestly, you start looking at the Colts, and you're like, they got some interior linemen, a defensive lineman who's been productive. Everybody's looking for that. You look at Arizona. Look at the Chargers right now. Derwin James, Khalil Mack. Do you consider moving off those guys? Those are good, high-end players. I mean, if you're a team that's been– I mean, like Chargers, they're out of it. I'd take Derwin James. He's one of the best athletes still in the NFL. Khalil Mack's been a great locker room guy. You've got to consider

28:31 both those guys. I think. I think the Colts and the Chargers have multiple players I would look at, and I think Saquon's another player. Philadelphia's another team where it feels like, to me, they're going to get some draft picks here, and Howie's going to reboot this puppy. I mean, Howie loves personnel. He loves doing this. Like, everybody else may see it as desperation.

28:53 I think what Philadelphia's doing is that it's time for a reboot.

28:57 They're realists, right?

28:58 I mean, this is Dallas Goddard, a tight end. Listen, we've seen a lot of tight ends go, teams go with the three tight end sets. Dallas Goddard is a strong player. He could easily go somewhere. But I think Saquon, he could have an easily, I mean, how many big games has he had against Dallas, Colin?

29:14 Come on.

29:15 This is a spot to showcase him. And then Shibham, you got Seattle. I don't know if you want to help in the conference, but I think watching Kenneth Walker in Kansas City and what Saquon did previously with the Eagles, There are several teams that would be jumping at the opportunity to get in the Saquon Barkley business. Cincinnati is another one. Finally, let's go back to tonight's game. Patriots in Chicago.

29:39 Cowroby. uh, somewhere.

29:40 I'm sure you're gonna be on the field.

29:42 Please go stand next to AJ Brown and check his hands.

29:44 See what's going on.

29:45 Three drops against the jets, but he's talking about putting that to bed.

29:49 He's ready to move forward. Here's AJ Brown.

29:52 That was the hardest part, you know, is getting open, you know?

29:55 So, uh, uh, You know, I just didn't make the play. You know, I'm not really going backwards because it's over with now. You know, I watched it fail. You know, I put it to bed. And I'm looking forward.

30:10 Every time we think we know what's going to happen, A.J. Brown can't catch a cold, you know. He's going to have like, you know, six for a buck ten with two touchdowns. This is the Bears secondary that got roasted by Christian Watson two weeks ago.

30:26 You know, listen, these are fascinating teams tonight. Patriots, Bears, because, I mean, Chicago's went through a stretch. You're like, all right, Case Keenum, Monday night. And then New England, everybody sold all their stock. Like, we forget. We are officially a third of the way through the season. Right. 17 games, 18 weeks. We're a third the way through the season.

30:51 Patriots Bears to me are two of the top five teams like Drake May with what has been. They've tried, but been a pretty average offensive line. has gotten to a Super Bowl, been number one in the league passer rating and number one completion percentage. And he's yet to have a great run game or a great O-line. So tonight, I mean, you're talking, these are the two best young quarterbacks in football. I don't think you can even deny that.

31:14 These are the two best guys in the last couple of years drafted. And I think they're both size, horsepower, deep ball. They're really special players.

31:23 So I see a total hanging at 50 and a half. So somebody seems to think there's going to be points. I think this is going to be like a playoff game where it's going to be high intensity. Nobody wants to make a mistake. And if this smells like low scoring to.

31:35 Me, it's short. We got some old line injuries. So it's a tough spot for new England. To me, it feels like Chicago needs to take advantage of this spot home short week. You're a little bit healthier. Um, It's just everything about this game, the coaching, the brands.

31:56 We've seen the strategy from Ben Johnson, right, with a compromised Caleb last week in Atlanta.

32:01 Run, run, run.

32:02 We saw it with Case Keenum. Let's run the ball.

32:06 He just wants to two clock and play keep away. So I would lean the under here, under and bears.

32:14 This is crazy.

32:15 I have zero bet on this game. The model showed me no value on either side. I'm just going to watch it.

32:20 I think it's close, and I think it's going to feel like a massive, big playoff game.

32:25 Just big.

32:26 It not won't necessarily remember when Denver and Seattle played on Thursday. It was an advertisement against Thursday night football. It may not be the cleanest game. I mean, again, you're asking New England to go on the road, travel. They're dinged up. This is not going to be an aesthetic masterpiece. This is for all the people that think it's unfair to play on Thursday. Some of these like Denver, Seattle, you knew those are good. You know, those rosters are good and they didn't play very well. So a lot of the Thursday games are a battle of attrition, like who stays healthy, who's standing last, who wins an ugly game.

32:58 I would lean Chicago tonight. Jay Mack with the news.

33:02 Well, that's the news.

33:03 And thanks for stopping by.

33:04 The Herdline News.

33:07 Between Greg Cosell, Robert Mays, last hour, it's a get smarter day for football fans. A World Series starts tomorrow. Live in Chicago, it's the Herd.

33:17 Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the iHeartRadio app.

33:26 Sunday, it's a huge NFL doubleheader on Fox. First at 1 Eastern, then Niners take on the Falcons or other regional action. Then at four, in America's Game of the Week, we've got Jordan Love and the Packers against Jared Goff and the Lions.

33:44 Or Rams Raiders.

33:45 It's all part of Foxtoberfest Sunday on Fox.

33:50 So Ben Roethlisberger brought up kind of an interesting point. He basically said, because the Steelers offense with Aaron Rodgers, it's weird. It's like Bo Nix in Denver. It is not good in the first three quarters, but yet it's sensational in the fourth quarter. Is that because the defense gets fatigued? You know, you're playing defense that's chasing you around, especially in Denver in high altitude or Aaron Rodgers, although he doesn't run like he used to, and a defense gets fatigued. Or if you're playing from behind, is there a defensive structure that's changed? Whatever it is, if you look at the numbers, Aaron in the first three quarters, he's completing 57% of his throws, then 72% in the

34:25 fourth quarter in overtime. Whatever it is, he's a different quarterback. Passer rating of 80, then a passer rating of 110. So big Ben says, I've got a solution for it.

34:37 Let's change the tempo up.

34:39 You naturally kind of have to do that when you're down and late in games, you're kind of going to a two minute or an uptempo offense. I'd like to maybe see that earlier. I think you just, Aaron's already doing everything he wants to do anyway. Why not let him do his thing?

34:52 Yeah.

34:52 Sometimes it makes it easier for alignment too, because it makes the defense a lot more vanilla.

34:57 So the Steelers run three, So little motion. They're near the bottom of the NFL running motion with Aaron because Aaron doesn't like it. The problem is a lot of the best offenses run more motion than five years ago and ten years ago. The other thing is they rank near the top of spread formation. And the good teams aren't doing a lot of spread formation. So Aaron's got kind of the old quarterback syndrome. Marino had this, you know, like Tom Brady went to Tampa. He was going to do what he wanted, not what Bruce Arians wanted. Like older quarterbacks, they know what they are. They know what they're not. I always feel like when a quarterback's in his 20s, the coach has the power and can mold him.

35:37 Once a quarterback gets into his thirties, the quarterback has more molding of the coach. Like this is what I am. This is what I do. I've been well compensated. I don't want motions. So I think when you get this Aaron, you don't get a lot of mobility, right? You're not getting Aaron eight years ago and you're getting on very little motion. Although the, you know, the Shanahan loves motion.

35:59 McVay loves motion. You're not getting a lot of motion. You're gonna get a lot of spread formations. Nobody else is using those. So you've gotten kind of into this Dan Marino, like, this is what I am. This is what I want to do. And, you know, I think, you know, I think this Steeler team, that's why I think with Aaron, you're going to get a really high ceiling, high floor, but you get a fairly low ceiling. I think they are exactly what we thought they would be.

36:25 In a lot of close games, Aaron late. I'd rather have him than not. He's good in the fourth. He's good in overtime. He can get that third down. He can do something in the red zone. A young quarterback, Cam Ward, is not going to do. But they're a bad first three-quarter offense. And Big Ben is suggesting just let him do what he wants to do. He's the old quarterback personality. Let Marino do at the end what he wants to do. Here's the NFL schedule. It's a pretty good schedule. Not a bad college schedule either. I think it's a pretty good NFL schedule. Tonight, this is the highest ticket price of the year in the NFL.

37:01 New England at Chicago tonight. So it is, they're like playoff numbers. So you get two star quarterbacks, two big brands, two winning teams, two great coaches. This is a very, very hot ticket in the end. One of my producers wants to go and he's like, he needs a raise and we just can't do it at this time. The budgetary limitations. So Patriots bears tonight. I would lean Chicago home team on a short week, a little banged up Patriot team. I would say the early window is, Cincinnati at Baltimore is Lamar Jackson, J Mac. What's the very latest.

37:41 So it looks like 50 minutes ago, Lamar jogged onto the practice field for the Ravens.

37:46 So he'll play.

37:46 So I, well, we'll see.

37:48 He hasn't had a full practice since I believe October 4th. So, I mean, it's been like three weeks. You're going to throw him in there.

37:55 We'll see. But I'm not touching that game.

37:58 Obviously you always ask for the big upset. So there are two big spreads here. Giants with J.J. McCarthy getting 10 in Houston and then the Indianapolis Colts, who you just mentioned as potential sellers in Minnesota off a buy.

38:14 Any of those appeal to you at all?

38:17 Well, last week I was upside down in the league. I had my worst one and four. I was lost all weekend. There's there's. I think tonight's game is going to be great. The best game played last week, in my opinion, was Jags-Texans in London. I thought it was one of my favorite games of the year. It was great quarterback play. Travis Hunter, Parker Washington, and I think Houston is a total buy. I think Houston is going to punish J.J. McCarthy.

38:47 Interesting.

38:47 One of the problems with these, a lot of bad teams won last week, right? Do you want to pick them again? The Jets won last week. I they're favored by four against that. I think Dolphins probably win that.

38:59 Okay. So I think the two games that are really interesting are really interesting. Well, one of them tonight, the two late Fox games. Okay. Green Bay, Detroit. So here's Detroit coming off rest, at home, rivalry game, and Green Bay is really, really feeling it. But again, the sad sack Cowboys, I mean, just look at the wins. The Bears with a backup quarterback with a deficiency at corner were great matchups. Detroit is not. a great matchup for the Packers. So that to me is a really entertaining, high scoring game. I like Detroit.

39:36 I think I'm with you now.

39:38 Also, the Raiders have a lot of fight. And the Rams are bizarrely desperate at two and four. But just because they're desperate, their special teams still stink. Miles Garrett is not there. They had major D-line cluster injuries with Kobe Turner and Puna Ford. So it's like, oh, the Rams will bounce back. Kirk Cousins, Washington, and Ashton Gentry could have a little more running space. So the interior of the D-line for the Rams and their special teams could be a bit of a mess. So this 2-4 Ram team, if you think they're going to fire out, they've got limitations now. In spots, they can't. I mean, no Miles Garrett, no Puna Ford, no Kobe Turner.

40:22 Don't forget Kubiak.

40:24 Kubiak knows the Rams well from being in the division last year. And Darnold lit him up at times. So the familiarity, and I don't think there's a big difference between Darnold and Cousins. So if I'm a Rams fan, I'm probably a little nervous. Telling otherwise, Baker Mayfield, did you see he looks like he's going to return against Carolina, maybe try to salvage the season?

40:45 Your guy Baker, I know he's been written off.

40:47 Some interesting storylines, despite a lot of like bad looking games.

40:51 Oh, I think, I think, I think there, I think the late games are, listen, Denver going to Arizona. Listen, Denver only plays close games.

41:02 Yeah.

41:03 They're laying like four and a half. I don't know. Oh, I forgot to ask the Paris game.

41:07 I just saw a word that Pittsburgh is leaving on like a red eye flight tonight to go to Paris. I know Shuck and Kellen Moore have zero experience in international games.

41:18 Rodgers and McCarthy, I'm pretty sure, do.

41:22 I don't know.

41:22 I thought Pittsburgh was going to be it, but I may consider the Saints there, and I don't like that Saints.

41:26 Team at all.

41:27 I just think starting with Denver to Arizona, Green Bay at Detroit, Rams at Raiders, Chiefs at Seahawks, that late window is tasty. Big, important games. I think the Rams could be in trouble. Yep.