S1E10 - BONUS Q&R: Substance Reliance, Phone Addiction Conflict, Failure in Spiritual Leadership, and Establishing Covenant Friendships Q+R

0:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to the intentional fatherhood podcast where we give you a strong biblical framework and lots of practical ideas on how to live intentionally as a father and a husband. [SPEAKER_07]: I'm Brooke Moser and I'm Justin Whitmore Early and we're your host to guide you through the many roles and challenges that God is calling you to to live intentionally as a father.

0:21 [SPEAKER_07]: We're following a visual framework that you can check out at intentionalfatherhood.org and it's going to help you break down fatherhood into eight columns. [SPEAKER_04]: And in each one, we're going to talk about how God made you to be a father and what practical habits you can start trying today in order to live intentionally into that home.

0:39 [SPEAKER_07]: So come along with us as we follow Jesus on this journey towards being more intentional fathers. [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome back to the intentional fatherhood podcast. [SPEAKER_04]: These are your questions from season one, Justin and I here in Richmond, Virginia, responding to your questions in real time.

1:02 [SPEAKER_07]: And Brooke is wearing a Richmond hat. [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's actually your hat. [SPEAKER_04]: So thank you. [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I know. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, this is becoming our thing. [SPEAKER_07]: We trade has. [SPEAKER_07]: We trade has. [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, we do. [SPEAKER_07]: It's pretty intimate.

1:13 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a real thing. [SPEAKER_04]: And you guys have good hat. [SPEAKER_04]: So it's like Richmond. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm I'm all I'm supporting. [SPEAKER_04]: So here's what we're doing. [SPEAKER_04]: Here's what the plan is today. [SPEAKER_04]: Just as a reminder. [SPEAKER_04]: We are going to respond to your questions so many of you were so gracious to send in so many voice memos Thank you way more than we can even respond to on air.

1:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so here's what we're gonna do We're gonna listen to your question in real time everyone's gonna hear it You might even hear Justin and I respond to it because you'll be hearing it, but we'll be talking saying some of you are gonna be surprised that your voice is on fire [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely it will be as a prize to some so actually hopefully to all because no one actually knows Which ones we're going to be picking?

1:52 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure So all that said I just want you that that's that's the rules for the day We are responding to season one and also want to say thank you to everyone who's rated subscribed and who has taken a chance to do that That is a gift and it is very helpful for us and so thank you Justin agrees with me Please do it.

2:09 [SPEAKER_07]: It's again. [SPEAKER_07]: I like to say Cross you nothing but it gives other people so much because this is the way that [SPEAKER_07]: The power algorithms that be send it to people when you like when you subscribe when you rate it Also, oh, I think people should listen to this. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so we need to talk about this season one made it into the top 10 most downloaded four [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

2:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Was it a whole week? [SPEAKER_04]: It was almost cool. [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, but it was in the top 10 of all spirituality and religion and I just have to tell you guys that that is amazing. [SPEAKER_04]: So thank you and part of that is because of your engagement. [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, you did that and we want to say thank you and that honestly what what that did was very helpful because it helps other people be like, oh, there's what is this?

2:53 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm curious. [SPEAKER_07]: So, and how cool is it that fathers would be trying to become like Jesus, serve their family and that would be evidence in the fact that people are listening to it in the top 10 spirituality and religion podcast, which Lord may be so. [SPEAKER_04]: So as we answer your questions, I have to say thank you to Blair, Blair went and got us Bertie's coffee.

3:16 [SPEAKER_04]: The best. [SPEAKER_04]: Cortado from Bertie's, Bertie's, my daughter's name, so I'm very Blair. [SPEAKER_07]: You got your shout out on here. [SPEAKER_04]: I call her care, Blair. [SPEAKER_04]: I asked this voice like, hey, is anyone ever called you care, Blair? [SPEAKER_04]: Because I think this is a great nickname.

3:28 [SPEAKER_04]: She's a service laughter. [SPEAKER_04]: She said, I'm one person. [SPEAKER_04]: It's like, I'm sorry. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm obviously making you feel very uncomfortable. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, Blair, we love you. [SPEAKER_04]: We do. [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. [SPEAKER_04]: Let's get into our first question.

3:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Justin, are you ready? [SPEAKER_04]: I'm ready. [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to head out for him. [SPEAKER_03]: Brooke and Justin, so thankful for this podcast. [SPEAKER_03]: My name is Patrick Mitchell. [SPEAKER_03]: I'm in Johnson City, Tennessee. [SPEAKER_03]: Johnson City. [SPEAKER_03]: Made famous back and wheel.

3:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Wack and wheel. [SPEAKER_03]: Ah, yes. [SPEAKER_03]: We've all had a bad dream. [SPEAKER_03]: Herinously wrong. [SPEAKER_03]: But my question, Justin, go back to when you were talking about your anxiety, getting into the law and having to have some drinks before bed and becoming independent on that rhythm.

4:07 [SPEAKER_03]: I've found myself there at different times, trying to, [SPEAKER_03]: persuasion anxiety and ended up on 80th medicine but in it helps with anxiety at times but [SPEAKER_03]: when you found yourself relying on that. [SPEAKER_03]: Or, and this could be the case with any substance that's not criminal, is it, hey, I'm gonna take a season of complete abstinence from this and get my head right, my heart right, am I involving my wife in that, like did you have learned in that?

4:41 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm just curious what that process looks like. [SPEAKER_03]: for you and, you know, Brookie may have something yourself that you've had to wrestle with that and work with your wife and partnership, and then like we, like you guys were talking about with your spiritual friends. [SPEAKER_03]: So just curious to hear more about that.

4:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks guys. [SPEAKER_07]: That was a good one and a tough one. [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, Patrick. [SPEAKER_07]: Because this is really new on it. [SPEAKER_07]: So I, I think it's really important to say, [SPEAKER_07]: I struggled with using alcohol as a coping mechanism in my early thirties, going through my anxiety crisis, but it was very different than what an alcoholic would experience.

5:30 [SPEAKER_07]: So I like to be honest about my struggle, but it wasn't pretty. [SPEAKER_07]: I wasn't getting drunk. [SPEAKER_07]: I don't get drunk. [SPEAKER_07]: I was not addicted. [SPEAKER_07]: This was not an experience that resonates with what actually so many do struggle with, which is alcoholism.

5:47 [SPEAKER_07]: So the answer is going to be need to be really different. [SPEAKER_07]: Some of you are struggling with alcoholism and you must stop. [SPEAKER_07]: You must get help and stop. [SPEAKER_07]: You must stop. [SPEAKER_07]: You must not dabble. [SPEAKER_07]: You must not try to win yourself off, taper down, handle this alone.

6:07 [SPEAKER_07]: You have got to get help. [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, now. [SPEAKER_07]: And you can't even wait till tomorrow. [SPEAKER_07]: And I want to say that really clearly. [SPEAKER_07]: Because when we're talking about real addictions and there's a range as a spectrum, but [SPEAKER_07]: So, somebody out there is hearing this and they know what I'm talking about.

6:26 [SPEAKER_07]: People who aren't alcoholics don't spend a lot of time wondering if they're alcoholics. [SPEAKER_07]: Okay. [SPEAKER_07]: If you have spent a lot of time wondering if you're an alcoholic, you probably are in any health. [SPEAKER_07]: And it's going to be so good for you. [SPEAKER_07]: It's going to be, you've convinced yourself that you need this, but everything that you want is on the other side of putting this, and you've just got to get help.

6:47 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, that's a really important ringing endorsement need a laid-out. [SPEAKER_04]: I just want to highlight. [SPEAKER_04]: I agree with you entirely keep going. [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you You're most most people aren't Most people aren't. [SPEAKER_07]: I know there's stats out there, but I think you know [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not going to try to name them.

7:04 [SPEAKER_07]: Most of you listening to this aren't. [SPEAKER_07]: Most of you listening to this who struggle with excess whether in food or in drink need healthier rhythms and so not sure Patrick what you're struggling with but for me I struggle with excess. [SPEAKER_07]: I am a man of great desire for better for worse [SPEAKER_07]: I love all the world that God made and you know whether it's eating or whether it's alcohol It could be a lot of things.

7:30 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm prone to take good things and make them idols because I love them so much and if you're like me I don't find quitting or doing like 30 days without something [SPEAKER_07]: to be the most useful thing. [SPEAKER_07]: Though I do do that. [SPEAKER_07]: So every year during Lent's, I don't drink alcohol at all.

7:51 [SPEAKER_07]: 40 days. [SPEAKER_07]: So it's 45 days. [SPEAKER_07]: Actually sort of, but all of Lent, I think is a little bit more than 40 days. [SPEAKER_07]: I can't remember if it's 45 or, but anyway, it's six weeks. [SPEAKER_07]: It's a great yearly practice, you know, that I just am fasting a lot.

8:07 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not eating sugar, no alcohol. [SPEAKER_07]: It's a great reset for me. [SPEAKER_07]: But most of life is not lived in land. [SPEAKER_07]: Most of life is not lived in the 30 days after the new year. [SPEAKER_07]: For anything that you are struggling with, I think you've got a practice doing in a healthy way in regular life.

8:24 [SPEAKER_07]: So I am much more of a fan of, yes, get my wife involved. [SPEAKER_07]: So I want to talk to Lauren. [SPEAKER_07]: We talk about this all the time. [SPEAKER_07]: We should just talk about it last week. [SPEAKER_07]: We're like, we're entering the fall season. [SPEAKER_07]: We want to reset our eating and health patterns.

8:39 [SPEAKER_07]: And we were both like, I think, you know, one night a week with alcohol's probably enough. [SPEAKER_07]: So, let's just sort of generally try to keep each other accountable, maybe on date night, maybe it's on Saturday, but we both sort of try to find that moderate rhythm and then enjoy it on that one night and that in the long run has been far more healthy for me to find moderate rhythms rather than balancing back and forth from abstinence to excess to abstinence to excess.

9:08 [SPEAKER_07]: So, tell me if you've got a quit? [SPEAKER_07]: most of you are not in that category and you need to learn how to be moderate and while you should have seasons of abstinence regularly, I think most of life has lived in the moderation. [SPEAKER_04]: So try that. [SPEAKER_04]: Well said, I mean, honestly, that's, I think the scary, the new one thing of bringing your wife in, I just have to say this, that could be challenging, depending upon her disposition, maybe she's uncomfortable with it, maybe you have an already told her, so maybe it's not just as simple as maybe it's partly like confession and [SPEAKER_04]: I would just say whatever the band it is, you got to rip, it's worth it, rip it, and always rip the band it.

9:49 [SPEAKER_04]: But it's also hard to, you know, you're saying that about you and Lauren, which I would imagine, which I really and healthy. [SPEAKER_04]: also it probably took you time to get there in the sense that you both were like you both can have this open conversation about maybe something that once at one point like you weren't handling in the most honorable way.

10:10 [SPEAKER_04]: So I mean just just to highlight there's new ones that stages to get there. [SPEAKER_07]: There are stages and your wife is not always going to be the most wise choice for an accountability partner depending on what you're struggling with. [SPEAKER_07]: I'm very sure. [SPEAKER_07]: You might want to go to a guy friend first and try to work on, but nothing should be with help in your wife and the long run to read.

10:31 [SPEAKER_07]: But I'll just say this, I think some writer had a really great quote on it. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: I think it might be Mark Twain. [SPEAKER_07]: Yes. [SPEAKER_07]: Um, but I live by that man. [SPEAKER_07]: I live by that. [SPEAKER_07]: I I think that keeping my small vices in plain sight are protecting me from larger hidden ones.

11:00 [SPEAKER_07]: Yes. [SPEAKER_07]: So I don't. [SPEAKER_07]: dabble in like trying to hide what I eat or drink or tobacco that I enjoy from Lauren or from friends. [SPEAKER_07]: You know, I want to know, like here's how often I do this. [SPEAKER_07]: You think that's okay. [SPEAKER_07]: And they give me feedback, you know, and so it was never that's too much.

11:20 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah, like stop. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, which is super what a year. [SPEAKER_07]: Because many of us live with these like, [SPEAKER_07]: We don't even know the numbers of like how often we're, um, I don't know how often we're drinking a soda and we know it's like hurting our health, but like actually it's a couple of days like that's really bad for you or you could pick anything but Vices so easy access is so easy so [SPEAKER_07]: wear it on your sleeve like don't hide it.

11:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: There was never a point where I was like, hey, Lauren, I have to tell you something. [SPEAKER_07]: It was just more like, can you have you noticed? [SPEAKER_07]: Like, I've just been, I've been pouring glass wine every single evening because I'm so nervous all the time.

11:58 [SPEAKER_07]: And you know, she's happy to help with that, right? [SPEAKER_07]: But it gets a lot harder when you're hiding them. [SPEAKER_07]: So I just want to encourage everybody, you know, keep your vices in plain sight. [SPEAKER_07]: We're all going to have them keep them in plain sight. [SPEAKER_07]: And that's the best place for others to help you work on them.

12:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Good vulnerability and humility on your parts. [SPEAKER_04]: That also the big part of that when you're humble and vulnerable. [SPEAKER_04]: It's a lot easier to want to be helpful. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, from a spouse perspective. [SPEAKER_04]: So, okay, next one random, but here we go. [SPEAKER_04]: Really pretty for this one.

12:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, what's up guys? [SPEAKER_00]: It's Ryan from Lorette, Texas. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I really enjoyed the podcast and just wrapped up episode three on the spiritual disciplines that you guys are personally walking up and have been encouraged and got some ideas of my own personal, my own personal time.

12:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So super grateful for this podcast. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you guys for doing it. [SPEAKER_00]: I know it takes a lot of time. [SPEAKER_00]: You won't. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm your other things, but we're really appreciative. [SPEAKER_00]: Really quick, my wife. [SPEAKER_00]: and I have kind of had some conflict around her phone being kind of an attachment or an addiction for her and it's something that I've had to grow in myself but I just wanted to ask you how would you recommend walking with her and being more present with the kids and more present and not feeling like she has to be there for everyone all the time through her device a way of us through social media and selling things are just communicating with family and friends.

13:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd just wanted to throw that out there and see if that's resonating with you or anybody else. [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks. [SPEAKER_04]: Ooh. [SPEAKER_04]: Ryan, that is a great question. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm happy to respond. [SPEAKER_07]: I'm glad to get this bro in trouble. [SPEAKER_07]: We're going to have some conflict with his wife.

13:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, let me respond, because if Elizabeth was here, she would say she struggles with this. [SPEAKER_04]: And she does. [SPEAKER_04]: She says it like we have the intentional parents' podcast. [SPEAKER_04]: She's on their all the time. [SPEAKER_04]: We talk all the time about it. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, so I needed maybe highlight something for you, Ryan, from your wife's perspective.

13:51 [SPEAKER_04]: So before we talk about how you should have talked to your wife, let me just give you a window into something that maybe you already know, but maybe don't. [SPEAKER_04]: Motherhood. [SPEAKER_04]: as you would already imagine as fatherhood is extremely hard. [SPEAKER_04]: It's hard to escape.

14:04 [SPEAKER_04]: You get to escape through work potentially. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm imagining you're working Ryan. [SPEAKER_04]: When you go to work there is a natural break from the reality and pressures of parenting. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: And that is my therapist equated it to and I'm sorry to say this for any wife listening to going on vacation.

14:20 [SPEAKER_04]: When I can have adult these like yeah you're working but you can have adult conversations and go to lunch [SPEAKER_04]: It's a strong overstatement, but to make the point that the grind of never being away from the kids, essentially, you know, in a very needy state, is very overwhelming, depending upon your wife's dynamics, the phone is a very easy, and this isn't giving permission to anybody, again, just to paint perspective.

14:49 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a very easy escape tool to escape reality for a minute, to take a couple minutes to feel like an adult, to feel like a human, to feel like you have autonomy, to feel like you're not just a caretaker. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm highlighting all that to say, like, when you have that conversation, there has to be a level of empathy, understanding and grace to know that it's not always as black and white.

15:08 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm addicted to this, I should put it down. [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot going on. [SPEAKER_04]: I think for a lot of different moms. [SPEAKER_04]: I would say usually one person in the couple has tendency towards this, this is what I see anyway, the one is maybe less addicted to their phone or okay with not having it, and then other is maybe more feels the pressure to always be there for people, always respond, always be present, Elizabeth is a very responsible person.

15:34 [SPEAKER_04]: So there's that and then there's the other detail, many moms run their homes now through phones. [SPEAKER_04]: It's connecting on apps and parenting stuff and communication about rides and babysitters. [SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes it is just pleasure. [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of the time it looks like work.

15:50 [SPEAKER_04]: And so this is a, I'm highlighting all that to say it is not, it is not a straightforward response of like, [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, she's just addicted to her phone. [SPEAKER_04]: I think that it probably overlaps. [SPEAKER_04]: So I'll just tell you what not to do because I know that very well.

16:03 [SPEAKER_04]: I can tell you exactly what not to do. [SPEAKER_04]: And if Elizabeth were here, she'd say the same, and she's listening, so it will find out if she agrees with us or not. [SPEAKER_04]: But I would say, don't just make passive comments all the time. [SPEAKER_04]: Like, can you put your phone down?

16:18 [SPEAKER_04]: What's on your phone? [SPEAKER_04]: Can you just pay attention? [SPEAKER_04]: Like, complaining to her about her phone use, kind of in a nagging way, that doesn't work. [SPEAKER_07]: That's a good point. [SPEAKER_04]: Constantly mentioning that she has no attention for you or for other people in the family, almost like shaming her into compliance.

16:34 [SPEAKER_04]: not helpful, very, very hard. [SPEAKER_04]: And then also kind of just like basically making passive comments because you're irritated. [SPEAKER_04]: So don't do that. [SPEAKER_04]: What I would encourage you to do is when there's a time of calm and your phones are down and you're able to talk.

16:52 [SPEAKER_04]: ask questions with curiosity and that just simply looks like, hey, I see that you're on your phone a lot. [SPEAKER_04]: Do you feel like it's pulling you into that world? [SPEAKER_04]: Do you feel like you're addicted to this? [SPEAKER_04]: Do you feel like it's too much? [SPEAKER_04]: You know, just ask questions like you feel like you are tied to this, like you need this to make it through a day.

17:11 [SPEAKER_04]: And just with with empathy as much as you can and I'm giving you the ideal. [SPEAKER_04]: When there's a lot of emotional frustration, it's hard to be calm about this stuff because you're already irritated. [SPEAKER_04]: But I would say with curiosity, you enter into conversation with her and ask her some curious questions and let her talk and let her kind of describe to you what's going on.

17:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe it's addiction. [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe it's a scapeysome. [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe it's running the home on the phone. [SPEAKER_04]: I think that if you're uncomfortable with a certain level of activity in it and involvement with your spouse on a phone, you should definitely talk about it.

17:42 [SPEAKER_04]: But I would do it in a way that's not shame-inducing, but it's more of like, can we talk about what our standards are going to be? [SPEAKER_04]: Can we talk about this? [SPEAKER_04]: And then practically help or say, hey, do you need help? [SPEAKER_04]: Is there an app that's helpful? [SPEAKER_04]: Would it be helpful for me to set different boundaries with my phone and we put our phones to bed at the same time?

17:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Would it be helpful if we, not just you, we didn't bring our phones in the room at night? [SPEAKER_04]: Would it be helpful if we, you know, set up these things as a family? [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's a you and her thing. [SPEAKER_04]: So, [SPEAKER_04]: I just would encourage you that this is my like lived felt experience.

18:13 [SPEAKER_04]: I know what you're talking about. [SPEAKER_04]: And Elizabeth is like in the process, both of like, not only dealing with it, but also like putting things in delicious, she got like a brick one of the brick things that that's been helpful for her. [SPEAKER_04]: She's just like, it's helpful.

18:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, and then we have certain rhythms and the funny thing is, I don't know what your ages kids are, right? [SPEAKER_04]: But um, our kids now are great little helpers for calling her out, which I'm not in any way saying is like, they're not rude about it. [SPEAKER_04]: But if they're, if she's not giving them her attention and she's on her phone doing something for a very long time or something as an example, I mean, our kids, they're like, mom, what's up?

18:55 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: You just pay, you know, they don't like it. [SPEAKER_04]: So they, that's a very helpful motivator for her. [SPEAKER_04]: That was actually kind of like the wake-up call when they started saying stuff. [SPEAKER_04]: She's like, I need to make sure that when I'm on my phone doing things that are honestly for work and other stuff, I need to be in different spaces or when they're awake.

19:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, he's here the times I need to be present to them. [SPEAKER_04]: He's a times when I can be on my phone. [SPEAKER_04]: So I think just setting up rhythms and boundaries is one of the most effective things. [SPEAKER_04]: What are your thoughts? [SPEAKER_07]: So I have a ton of thoughts on rhythms and boundaries, and I'd write it and talk about these adnausium.

19:24 [SPEAKER_07]: But I'm sensing and Ryan's question that maybe they aren't on the same page about this, which is actually kind of unique to me because most couples I meet, husbands and wives, usually both agree that both of them have a problem because most every single one of us does have a problem with their phone.

19:42 [SPEAKER_07]: So it's not unusual that you have a problem. [SPEAKER_07]: But I think it's slightly unusual not to recognize it. [SPEAKER_07]: So if you both agree that there's a problem, then I think we're in the categories of rhythms and boundaries, and we obviously do episodes on this. [SPEAKER_07]: If Ryan, if she doesn't agree that there's a problem, I think that's where it's sticky and one, I would take Brooks advice of bringing up at the right time, not in a nagging way, deeper conversation.

20:11 [SPEAKER_07]: And I would maybe read on this, so I would maybe if you guys aren't coming to consensus on it. [SPEAKER_07]: Andy crouches tech wise family. [SPEAKER_07]: I love that word. [SPEAKER_07]: Or Jonathan Heights, the anxious generation. [SPEAKER_07]: Yep. [SPEAKER_07]: I think are two gateway drugs, if you will, to starting to think more in depth about your technology use.

20:30 [SPEAKER_07]: And so she might rightly say, and I really appreciate that you noted this, you know. [SPEAKER_07]: a phone is now one of the main ways a mom does run her family and so there's a lot of things that you you might need and then it's very not wrong but it will help you think through what are good uses why do you not have to be available to everyone all the time what are you running towards and what are you getting sucked into yes and so I would read one of those books together if you really care about it say hey would you read this with me I just want to go into deeper conversation on this yeah and try to find consensus [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, great word.

21:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Ryan, thank you for your question though. [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_04]: Ryan for Texas. [SPEAKER_07]: What's our next question? [SPEAKER_04]: Our next question is, here we go. [SPEAKER_02]: Hey guys, this is Matt Hogan calling from Chendogatincy. [SPEAKER_02]: First of all, you are stood so grateful for this podcast and this conversation has been out.

21:21 [SPEAKER_02]: We know if you're giving thing for me. [SPEAKER_02]: I've not been on a podcast book grand lately and it's so good to get back into something with you guys. [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, my question is about the episode on soul friends and covenant friendships, which was deeply helpful and also deeply troubling for me in a very good way as I'm, [SPEAKER_02]: feeling like I'm somebody who is very extroverted with a lot of friends, tons of people I talk to all the time to use your analogy, like I'm well fed with snacks versus meals, like so many snacks of friends, and just curious like advice wisdom discernment you guys have on like how to take [SPEAKER_02]: some, a few of those friends and to transition them into covenant friendships.

22:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, how do I take three to five guys and take it deeper to a soul friendship? [SPEAKER_02]: Give me some advice, give me some insights. [SPEAKER_02]: How would you guys do that? [SPEAKER_02]: So grateful for y'all. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_04]: Matt, I know Matt. [SPEAKER_04]: You know, Matt?

22:20 [SPEAKER_04]: No, I don't think I do. [SPEAKER_04]: So Matt, yeah, yeah, great to it. [SPEAKER_04]: We'll all explain more, but Matt Hogan, what a good dude. [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for sending in a question. [SPEAKER_04]: Glad we can be a part of the podcast grind and honored for your question. [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, first of all, made for people.

22:36 [SPEAKER_04]: There's just all through that I know it's been just some of the early movies written this book. [SPEAKER_04]: It's all about coming at friendship. [SPEAKER_04]: I really agree with a lot of what he says. [SPEAKER_04]: A couple things I think are kind of... Can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait

23:10 [SPEAKER_07]: I, yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_07]: So shared, listening and shared reading creates shared lives. [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, that's good. [SPEAKER_07]: So, you know, it's always a tough look for an author to be like, well, you can read my book on this, but if you were to invite your friends to read, made for people, or to read, or to maybe listen to this episode of the podcast that we did on [SPEAKER_07]: There are other podcasts out there.

23:39 [SPEAKER_07]: If you were to say, Matt, let's get through two or three of these guys together and listen or read together and then talk about it. [SPEAKER_07]: That would be a great way to spark because a lot of people. [SPEAKER_07]: don't know how to name what they're looking for. [SPEAKER_07]: But once you put that language out there of covenant friendship, they say, I want that.

24:03 [SPEAKER_07]: I want that too. [SPEAKER_07]: And so listening to something or reading something together that helps you name it and it becomes shared parlance allows you to pursue it. [SPEAKER_07]: Another way that I see a lot of people thrive in [SPEAKER_07]: is just creating a group. [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, sometimes there's actually an excitement to be like, hey, you three guys, we know each other well, we hang out, we laugh, we talk, we text, we do be interested in the season, but we meet, you know, maybe once a month and just try to go deep.

24:31 [SPEAKER_07]: Schedules are really the huge barrier to that, but I tend to find, maybe I'm wrong, desire is not usually people are starving for relationship and that invitation being the guy, Matt, who invites everybody together and says, you know, if you guys aren't here, at least I'll be here. [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, this coffee shop, this time every Saturday, I'll be there.

24:53 [SPEAKER_07]: Let's, let's be real about our lives. [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, that's initiating vulnerability breeds vulnerability and initiate vulnerability [SPEAKER_07]: So there's a two great ways I know to start shared readings or some shared meetings. [SPEAKER_04]: I think that's brilliant. [SPEAKER_04]: The only add-on would be, I mean, you could do that even with this podcast, right?

25:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I think so. [SPEAKER_04]: I think we, as far as, like, even, sometimes the podcast is a much easier buy-in. [SPEAKER_04]: It's a lower bar of, like, hey, listen to this. [SPEAKER_04]: You don't have to read it. [SPEAKER_04]: You don't have to. [SPEAKER_04]: maybe explain the concept.

25:25 [SPEAKER_04]: So if that's something that's on your heart, I even think Matt, you could absolutely get a group of guys and just be like, hey, can you listen to this? [SPEAKER_04]: This is kind of something I'm thinking through. [SPEAKER_04]: And then create the curiosity. [SPEAKER_04]: And then I was just going to say, you know, you said it differently, but similar, it's just if you have those friends that are close and you know that these are guys you want to be close with, cast a vision for them.

25:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, tell them. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's kind of like dating. [SPEAKER_07]: Like tell weirdly is. [SPEAKER_07]: Tell her how much, like, [SPEAKER_04]: Man, Elizabeth and I have this rule that you're not allowed to speak well behind, you know, about anybody behind their back. [SPEAKER_04]: And so if we're talking about somebody well, we immediately have the responsibility to call that person or send them a voice.

26:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, hey, we were just saying this about you. [SPEAKER_06]: I love it. [SPEAKER_04]: And what's so helpful about that is like, I think there's people that think good thoughts about. [SPEAKER_04]: at lots of people all the time. [SPEAKER_04]: They just don't know it because we don't always know how to say it.

26:15 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think just verbalized dudes, I think you're legit. [SPEAKER_04]: I think it would be great to kind of continue this community. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm craving it. [SPEAKER_04]: How do you guys feel? [SPEAKER_04]: And Matt, I know you, you know, I don't know you super well, but I know your personality well enough to know like you have that skill.

26:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Like you could easily as a person. [SPEAKER_04]: cast that vision, it'd be compelling and people would be like, yeah, I could see this. [SPEAKER_04]: So I take Justin's advice, I think that's really wise cast a vision for these dudes. [SPEAKER_04]: And then just be honest, I think the transparency and vulnerability reads transparency and vulnerability.

26:48 [SPEAKER_04]: If you give people permission through how you model it, it will absolutely be something they either one embrace very quickly, naturally, or they were dragged reject. [SPEAKER_04]: And it's really easy to find those people because they either won't hang out. [SPEAKER_04]: They won't be like people that aren't ready to do that are usually very quick to eject.

27:06 [SPEAKER_07]: I only want to add. [SPEAKER_07]: the tyrant of the American schedule really does make it hard to do this. [SPEAKER_07]: So Matt, and you know, I'm not telling anybody anything they don't already know, but many people will want it and still not be able to make it happen because they're they're not in a healthy place with their schedule or maybe this is a bad season or [SPEAKER_07]: So I just want to encourage anybody who wants to catalyze this persevere because you might feel like you're failing or people aren't coming or they don't want to show up and it is just a hard time in the this cultural moment to do this.

27:43 [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't persevere and it is worth it. [SPEAKER_04]: And you're saying it brilliantly because you're basically swimming upstream without models. [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, honestly, one of the reasons Justin and I are so passionate about fatherhood is because we're a generation and many of us that didn't have good models.

28:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, some did, but the majority did not of what does it look like to step into this space practically? [SPEAKER_04]: So you were trying to talk about something that honestly, few people in the culture even have framework. [SPEAKER_04]: So given the framework, [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you can have one and they can last for the whole of your life like what does that mean and and how does that look and so it's very possible and it's not as challenging as it sounds, but it does take consistency faithfulness grit get into it so Matt appreciate your question.

28:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Great question Matt for talking to you following along. [SPEAKER_04]: We have another question. [SPEAKER_04]: You ready for it? [SPEAKER_07]: I am ready for the next question. [SPEAKER_01]: Hey Justin and Brooke, Bailey here, big fan of the show. [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for your encouragement and equipping of us young dad.

28:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm married to my wife for seven years and have three young girls, I just four, three, and one. [SPEAKER_01]: So just kind of in love, the rows of fatherhood. [SPEAKER_01]: Here's my question for you guys and I love your thoughts. [SPEAKER_01]: Been walking with Jesus, solid overall, solid marriage.

29:10 [SPEAKER_01]: but have some regrets in the way that I've led our family spiritually, or maybe the lack thereof. [SPEAKER_01]: And so how do you have spiritual conversations with your wife when you feel like you've got this long history of missing the mark or not getting it right? [SPEAKER_01]: It feels like this chicken before the egg of [SPEAKER_01]: I want to have spiritual conversations, but I've also missed the mark in the past and it feels awkward and not natural.

29:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So how do you break through that ice? [SPEAKER_01]: I know that we don't have to clean up our life before we come to Jesus and I think that would be the natural answer here, but it just doesn't feel natural. [SPEAKER_01]: to sit down and have a deep, meaningful, thoughtful, spiritual conversation when she's seen the worst parts of me.

30:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like she's seen me miss the mark time and time again. [SPEAKER_01]: It just feels like, well, this won't last or this isn't the real thing because I've seen you miss the mark and maybe that's all in my head, but I'm just struggling on how to break through that. [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, guys, [SPEAKER_07]: Man, I appreciate your brave and honest question, Billy.

30:28 [SPEAKER_07]: That's a vulnerable thing to admit, important thing to admit. [SPEAKER_07]: But I think that you're admitting it says volumes and that you're, like, most. [SPEAKER_07]: Most people who aren't leading spiritually aren't asking, how can I lead spiritually? [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, the fact that you want to do it, I think, is an encouragement to me because you're way down the line.

30:54 [SPEAKER_07]: Clearly, God is working in your heart. [SPEAKER_07]: And... [SPEAKER_07]: You know, two thoughts that come to mind are one. [SPEAKER_07]: Nothing is normal until it is. [SPEAKER_07]: So every new rhythm feels really odd at first to you and others. [SPEAKER_07]: But families and marriages are famous for making weird things normal.

31:18 [SPEAKER_07]: So like anything can become normal in your family and marriage and lots of things become normal. [SPEAKER_07]: pushing through that this is new. [SPEAKER_07]: This is weird. [SPEAKER_07]: This is odd. [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, it's it's okay. [SPEAKER_07]: I guess I'm just saying it's okay for it to be odd at first.

31:39 [SPEAKER_07]: The second thing I would add in then I want to hear what you think is that, you know, I would be really surprised if she was mad that you were trying to do this. [SPEAKER_07]: I think probably most lives that are wishing we would spiritually lead more as husbands are not going to Yes, resented or stop it.

32:00 [SPEAKER_07]: They might be like, is he serious? [SPEAKER_07]: Is this really going to last? [SPEAKER_07]: But but that's where it's about you, Bailey, not her. [SPEAKER_07]: Is it going to last? [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, keep keep doing it. [SPEAKER_07]: I think I think [SPEAKER_07]: I think you, you, be comfortable in pushing through that weirdness, just what do you think?

32:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, Bailey, I just, you listened to a podcast took the time to send it in a question Justin's right. [SPEAKER_04]: It says a lot about where your heart's at and it speaks a lot about your initiation and desire to initiate change in this area. [SPEAKER_04]: So I want to say, God's active in your heart.

32:38 [SPEAKER_04]: I want to confirm that as a brother that can even hear that in your voice. [SPEAKER_04]: I hear the shame in your voice and I know the pressure of when your wife has seen the worst of you based upon things and maybe you can control or maybe things you didn't know you had control over at times and she sees the ugliest part of you.

32:56 [SPEAKER_04]: I want to say that that feels so vulnerable but it is so good for her to see it and it is so good for her to know who you are and [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's the that is the Jesus stuff make it in an ashamed like to be fully known and fully loved these parts were parts of you They don't remain who you are.

33:13 [SPEAKER_04]: I want to speak that over you. [SPEAKER_04]: You are not going to be this man forever. [SPEAKER_04]: Amen. [SPEAKER_04]: And that is because you're asking this question [SPEAKER_07]: That's a good. [SPEAKER_07]: I just want to speak that grace too. [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, grace means you don't have to be today what you were yesterday and clearly Bailey, you are trying to change.

33:29 [SPEAKER_04]: You're going to change. [SPEAKER_04]: You will. [SPEAKER_04]: And because you're asking these questions you've been married seven years, you have three young children, four, three, and one, my goodness. [SPEAKER_04]: If your head is on straight at the end of the day, you're doing well. [SPEAKER_07]: And by the way, a great time to realize you need [SPEAKER_07]: Look, most of their memories aren't formed yet.

33:45 [SPEAKER_07]: You got, you got a lot of years here to speak to lead. [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of years ahead of you. [SPEAKER_04]: And so I just want to speak to the like, feels foreign. [SPEAKER_04]: How do I even start? [SPEAKER_04]: You start with repair. [SPEAKER_04]: We've been talking about this over and over with season two as it's going to be coming soon.

34:01 [SPEAKER_04]: We're naming stuff in season two. [SPEAKER_04]: So let's just name something really quick for you. [SPEAKER_04]: You failed. [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to the club. [SPEAKER_04]: I have been failed leading my family spiritual before too. [SPEAKER_04]: Um, I could have done better at different times.

34:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I could have done more. [SPEAKER_04]: I've sometimes chosen not to do more out of my own, uh, ignorance out of my own lack of desire, not knowing what to do. [SPEAKER_04]: There's a long list, but I could give you more. [SPEAKER_04]: You start with being honest with her, sweetheart. [SPEAKER_04]: I have not been the man that I want to be in this area.

34:33 [SPEAKER_04]: It feels very disingenuine, very not honest to who I am to just try to have spiritual conversations with you because I realize I've fractured this area and I haven't done well. [SPEAKER_04]: And I want to start by acknowledging my fault. [SPEAKER_04]: So I would just say, you start by just being painfully brutally and clearly honest about where you have dropped the ball.

34:58 [SPEAKER_04]: And let her know, I am in the process. [SPEAKER_04]: I want to change and I want to put in the metrics. [SPEAKER_04]: I want to put in the support to change. [SPEAKER_04]: I just want to ask, would you go on this journey with me and be patient with me as I change? [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: And let her know like I'm going to be praying about this, I'm going to bring in mentors and other people.

35:16 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to listen to podcasts like this and other things I'm going to read. [SPEAKER_04]: I want to become this man and I just want to give you that vision and hope and would you pray for me? [SPEAKER_04]: Would you pray for me that I would become the man that I need to be to lead you?

35:27 [SPEAKER_04]: I would start there and get there. [SPEAKER_04]: There's no woman in the world, especially good art of woman that's going to be like, [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I don't really believe you. [SPEAKER_04]: She's going to be compassionate tender. [SPEAKER_04]: She's going to respect you more. [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

35:40 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, she's going to she is going to look up to you more. [SPEAKER_04]: That is the most noble thing you can do. [SPEAKER_04]: So this idea that you were supposed to have together all along is a lie that was never that you were never supposed to have it all together and never fail. [SPEAKER_04]: It is how you get up that makes you the man that you are.

35:55 [SPEAKER_04]: It is not how you fall. [SPEAKER_04]: You are going to fall. [SPEAKER_04]: it's having the right space to repent, acknowledge, repair, and I think by you naming it for her, it will give her peace to know that you really see the thing that you need to change, and that you actually understand what happens and what didn't happen or what needs to happen, and that's going to give her so much confidence and hope.

36:16 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think it's where you start, man. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and I think if you are looking Bailey for any practical ways to say, what does it look like? [SPEAKER_07]: I would probably recommend after that conversation. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: You know, saying pick one rhythm that you think you can stick to.

36:32 [SPEAKER_07]: And so it might be short nightly prayer before you both go to bed. [SPEAKER_07]: Like I said, you want to start this as a way to sort of practice a prayer life together. [SPEAKER_07]: Might be a weekly family devotion. [SPEAKER_07]: Like at those girls at the table one night a week and read a fun Bible story.

36:48 [SPEAKER_07]: You know, hey, baby, can we make a date night once a month to have a spiritual conversation, which I do something fun and just sort of go deep together? [SPEAKER_07]: It might be saying maybe we should do this by reading a book together. [SPEAKER_07]: There are four ideas, nightly prayer, family devotion once a week, a monthly conversation or reading a book with her.

37:07 [SPEAKER_07]: You know, don't do them all, pick one, pick one thing that you can be like here's an on ramp to this. [SPEAKER_07]: So if you're looking for like a little toe hole, try one of those. [SPEAKER_04]: And can I give some of Justin's advice through me to you? [SPEAKER_04]: I heard you say this and I appreciate it a lot.

37:23 [SPEAKER_04]: When we start to practice certain new spiritual things with our family or kids or our spouse, it's going to feel uncomfortable at first because it is not the norm. [SPEAKER_04]: It's not what we normally do. [SPEAKER_04]: But can I just encourage you as Justin would encourage you? [SPEAKER_04]: push past it, just keep doing it.

37:38 [SPEAKER_04]: It will become normal. [SPEAKER_04]: It will become second nature. [SPEAKER_04]: The awkwardness will fade. [SPEAKER_04]: It will feel weird at first. [SPEAKER_04]: And it should because it's not what you're ever doing. [SPEAKER_04]: And so don't be surprised by that but push through it because it will get better.

37:51 [SPEAKER_04]: It will get normal. [SPEAKER_04]: And Bailey, I just speak it over you, man. [SPEAKER_04]: God is working in your heart. [SPEAKER_04]: Let them do it. [SPEAKER_04]: Do it through humility and be honest about this desire and struggle with your wife. [SPEAKER_04]: And then bring the right men into it and then you know find find those men in your life that you want to emulate and buy them lunch or dinner or drink or something like say can I have your time and just like if I really want to learn something from anybody I immediately ask them.

38:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Can I meet with you on your time and what's your favorite thing? [SPEAKER_04]: I'm telling you, no love that. [SPEAKER_04]: No one says no to that. [SPEAKER_04]: Like, anyway, do that. [SPEAKER_04]: So thank you for your question. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm hopeful for Bailey. [SPEAKER_04]: I love this.

38:30 [SPEAKER_04]: I want another question from Bailey on season two or another. [SPEAKER_07]: I want to hear how it goes in a new Bailey. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, give us an update when you have one. [SPEAKER_04]: It would be amazing. [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. [SPEAKER_04]: Give us another one. [SPEAKER_04]: What's the other question?

38:40 [SPEAKER_04]: These are fun. [SPEAKER_04]: I know. [SPEAKER_04]: I like it. [SPEAKER_04]: This is just so cool to hear your voices in your stories. [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. [SPEAKER_09]: Hi, I'm Josh Barber from Houston, Texas and I wanted to ask one of the things I saw in your diagram on your website was I've been talking about your own childhood and I think I think how that affects you as a father and you know I've got three little girls five, two and three months old and so I'm kind of a new dad and one of the things I've [SPEAKER_09]: discovered about myself is my struggle to overcome what seems like my nature, but really I think I'm learning that it came from the way I was parented things like, you know, admitting my own fault or my decisions to lose my temporary, this kind of thing, to my kid, right?

39:38 [SPEAKER_09]: Where that definitely was never done to me. [SPEAKER_09]: And of course, [SPEAKER_09]: There's standard disclaimer. [SPEAKER_09]: I love my parents. [SPEAKER_09]: They did the best they could. [SPEAKER_09]: But this is totally foreign to me as a dad. [SPEAKER_09]: And I think I'm starting to come around to the idea that you have to, I think, be upfront about your feelings and your weaknesses to your kids in order.

40:04 [SPEAKER_09]: I think to better your relationship with them, but more importantly, like, [SPEAKER_09]: show them what it looks like to be an honest Christian dad. [SPEAKER_09]: So I just would like to know your thoughts. [SPEAKER_07]: Well, another beautiful brave question from a dad of three girls. [SPEAKER_04]: Again, that question makes me emotional, dude.

40:26 [SPEAKER_04]: It really does. [SPEAKER_04]: That hits my life. [SPEAKER_04]: That is so much of my life. [SPEAKER_04]: Like responding from the paint your pain and not who you want to be. [SPEAKER_04]: you want to go first in on that. [SPEAKER_04]: I can, so it's. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, I'll just say quickly.

40:47 [SPEAKER_04]: So, something that has been just breakthrough for me, it was Josh, something has been breakthrough for me, you know, you're, I heard you processing almost verbally in real time, wow, these things maybe came from my childhood and yes, of course, your parents, all of parents, you know, goodwill parents try to do the best that they can and can't live up to all of it because we have brokenness in our lives and our brokenness plays out in different ways.

41:15 [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of the times we parent and kids bring this out of us out of our procedural memory, I've said that many times procedural memory is just simply that part of your brain that allows you to drive without thinking, tie your shoes, it's that stuff that you do that you do without thinking.

41:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, growing up, especially if you had any sort of particular intense way of being raised or experiences, this can be trauma or even less, you have these procedural memories and things that are kind of hardwired into you that you just, that become just the way you act. [SPEAKER_04]: It's like when you say, I'm never going to yell at my kids and your kid does something and you find yourself like mid-yelling to them, like you're like, oh my gosh, I'm yelling at my kids.

41:57 [SPEAKER_04]: That's a part of procedural memory. [SPEAKER_04]: And so understanding for me personally, this has been the biggest breakthrough for me, Josh, is to truly understand, okay, what happened? [SPEAKER_04]: And then, wow, I've got a lot of areas and starting to name it like, that's an area of procedural memory.

42:17 [SPEAKER_04]: My kid said this and then I responded that way and that reminded me just to my childhood and like oh my gosh Like name that again and highlight it and then say Wow, I got to deal with that and then that's something that you bring to your spouse You bring to a therapist you bring to a friend you bring to prayer and you begin the slow process of undoing What has been wired into you?

42:38 [SPEAKER_04]: I think men fathers [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of us have stuff wired into us that we don't want need and desire. [SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's all of our jobs and the process of formation to begin to, if you are a hunter, you'll get this analogy to hunt those things down into Killing, or to repurpose them.

42:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Like you either are gonna be repurposed or out. [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that idea of being, like get in the gear, if you're bow hunter, take your bow, whatever it is, and you go after this stuff. [SPEAKER_04]: Because if not, it comes into camp and it can honestly destroy. [SPEAKER_04]: And so anyway, yeah, that that moved me a lot because I just, I feel for you, Josh.

43:20 [SPEAKER_04]: But the fact that you're asking this question and even observing what's going on, I think you're far ahead. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: I would say that gospel is good news and it's good news for our parenting. [SPEAKER_07]: It's good news for our brains. [SPEAKER_07]: It means that generations really can change.

43:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, sir. [SPEAKER_07]: And Jesus is in the business of changing lives of interrupting generations of sin and turning them around. [SPEAKER_07]: And I am so grateful. [SPEAKER_07]: I look at my life and I see so many guys. [SPEAKER_07]: with either abs and fathers, alcoholic fathers, fathers who left, fathers who passed away, parents who had unhealthy habits.

44:06 [SPEAKER_07]: I see so many guys around me who are raised in broken environments. [SPEAKER_07]: Just completely turning their generation below them around because they love Jesus, walk and follow him and their lives are being changed. [SPEAKER_07]: Yes. [SPEAKER_07]: So I just want to speak a word of hope.

44:22 [SPEAKER_07]: If you're you are not destined to repeat your parents sense. [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. [SPEAKER_07]: And even even when this is [SPEAKER_07]: Because you're right about everything you say, the procedural memory that the habit, the intuitions, even some of the trauma and the injury that can come mentally and emotionally from these broken environments.

44:40 [SPEAKER_07]: The great news of the gospel is that you are not stuck with that stuff. [SPEAKER_07]: You can do the work to turn around. [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm so encouraged Josh that you're asking the question because like Brooks said, it means that you're starting the work. [SPEAKER_07]: And so I would just only close with [SPEAKER_07]: You're not stuck with it, but repair and naming is going to be a part of it.

45:03 [SPEAKER_07]: Now your girls are probably too young now for this to be in play. [SPEAKER_07]: But likely, you know, when they're 10, 11, 12, particularly when they're teens. [SPEAKER_07]: There are going to be things that you repeat from your upbringing that are broken and you're going to need to name it for them and repair with them.

45:21 [SPEAKER_07]: And that's going to be normal and that is going to be the most healthy thing that you can do because all of us like huge mistakes in parenting. [SPEAKER_07]: But not enough of us name them and repair those mistakes. [SPEAKER_07]: and as Brooke often says, and now I'm taking to saying, I love it, you can't fix everything, but you can name anything.

45:43 [SPEAKER_07]: You can, um, you, you, it's really important to name that. [SPEAKER_07]: That'll be part of repairing. [SPEAKER_07]: But I, uh, God bless you, man. [SPEAKER_07]: I think you're going to do well. [SPEAKER_04]: I can't, we're going to do one more question to be done. [SPEAKER_04]: And just to add each stage of parenting can bring out different parts of this story for you.

46:02 [SPEAKER_04]: I'll just give you a little highlight like I have kids 16 down to seven. [SPEAKER_04]: My 13 year old daughter for whatever reason the stage she's in is bringing up a bunch of stuff. [SPEAKER_04]: From when I was that age and stage based upon how her interactions are some time. [SPEAKER_04]: And I have this whole new thing that I'm having to deal with like, what is she poking in me?

46:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Not on purpose of course, but something about her is poking on something from my childhood that I'm trying to figure out that was weird during that time. [SPEAKER_04]: And also, like, you know, there was a lot of parenting that didn't happen for me from around 16 on because of some of my family dynamics.

46:36 [SPEAKER_04]: And so I'm raising kids right now in a stage where I don't remember what it was like being parented in that stage. [SPEAKER_04]: It's a very weird disorienting time. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm saying all that to give perspective like you're gonna do with this now and you need to but don't be surprised if you have to keep going back and keep dealing with it and each stage might bring up something else and that's okay but learn the tools early on and begin to do with adjustments.

47:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you very much for that question. [SPEAKER_04]: I do one more. [SPEAKER_04]: One more. [SPEAKER_04]: Last one for season one [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, Brooke, and Justin, my name is Chris Berge, and I, my family and I live about an hour north of Dallas, Texas, in a small town called Van Alstein, and I call that just one of the send of voice note in.

47:27 [SPEAKER_05]: Don't particularly have a question per se, but just wanted to say thank you. [SPEAKER_05]: You have no idea just how much of a blessing and how timely your podcast has been to me and my season of life. [SPEAKER_05]: My wife and I were on the mission field and came back in 2023 to take a role at our church, our sending church, and just did not go as planned or well.

47:53 [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, just went through a dark season of struggling with vices and isolation and mental health. [SPEAKER_05]: My first panic attacks all these things, and there's overall crush by the weight. [SPEAKER_05]: of wanting to be a father in a husband to my wife and love them and they need them toward Jesus well and it's just felt completely incapable and as Justin you commented once just feel felt stuck but I learned so much [SPEAKER_05]: um from you guys already so encouraging.

48:23 [SPEAKER_05]: Very kind. [SPEAKER_05]: I just want to say thank you and one of the most profound things so far that I could not agree with more and it's just your utter disdain for pets and animals. [SPEAKER_05]: I'm the same way and reluctantly we have a dog, a cat, a deer dragon now. [SPEAKER_05]: I drove him into an empty room, ran over one of them, [SPEAKER_05]: It's a story for a different time, but yeah, just thank you so much.

48:51 [SPEAKER_05]: Keep doing it. [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, just super encouraged and challenged and by you guys. [SPEAKER_07]: Well, Chris bird from Dallas. [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for making the best last question slash. [SPEAKER_04]: Not a question, but I mean, hey, I didn't, you know, this is not random. [SPEAKER_04]: I picked these.

49:12 [SPEAKER_07]: We have a lot of listeners or at least active listeners who send questions from Texas and I decided I just want to shout out Texas You gave me the greatest gift in my life my wife is from Texas. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, one part [SPEAKER_07]: She's from, well, her parents, she's born in Houston, but her parents were from East Texas.

49:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. [SPEAKER_04]: So we need to nuance the animal thing because we're gonna, yeah, I don't wanna get trouble. [SPEAKER_04]: We're gonna lose a thousand followers from this. [SPEAKER_07]: I'm a, okay, okay, let me say two things. [SPEAKER_07]: Once. [SPEAKER_07]: I am so happy for Chris's comment, not a question, because I would love to be known as the podcast where we're honest about the difficulties of Fatherhood.

49:53 [SPEAKER_07]: So other people can be honest and transparent and vulnerable about there so that we can all enter into Jesus' healing together. [SPEAKER_07]: hypocrites don't experience a lot of healing because they're not looking for it. [SPEAKER_07]: Private people don't experience grace because they're not looking for it.

50:07 [SPEAKER_07]: It is Jesus came to heal the sick and the centers of which we are one. [SPEAKER_07]: And we father's need to walk in humility with him together. [SPEAKER_07]: So I'm thrilled to be known for that and get voice members on that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_07]: On the disdain for animals.

50:21 [SPEAKER_07]: I want to know what to. [SPEAKER_07]: At the time of this recording, I have three cats. [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, three cats. [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not a cat person. [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not that kind of like you were funny. [SPEAKER_07]: Took a books and cats a lot. [SPEAKER_07]: Like I'm getting a bad vibe.

50:33 [SPEAKER_04]: I was just I was observing reality. [SPEAKER_07]: My boy is finally like we want animals like kids love animals He kids love animals, but animals mess up your house, okay? [SPEAKER_07]: And there's more poop and there's more pee on the floor And you're still cleaning up the poop and the pee from the toddler, so it's like and then you need to get out of the house And but the dog or the cat can't and so then you cancel vacations and you mess up plans and I'm to a certain extent I want to speak to young parents and say [SPEAKER_07]: Look, choose your sufferings like one at a time, you have a newborn, don't get a puppy yet, but just, yeah, be wise.

51:06 [SPEAKER_07]: And that's what I'm talking about. [SPEAKER_07]: But yes. [SPEAKER_07]: But I think one of the actual vices in my life is that I am, I am selfish and I look around to other people who love animals and are kind of animals and spend their time on animals. [SPEAKER_07]: And this can go way wrong, you know, you can worship the creation rather than the creator like that dog ain't that special.

51:29 [SPEAKER_07]: And it's not that cute. [SPEAKER_07]: But there's something holy about people who love God's creatures and are hiding to them. [SPEAKER_07]: And so my kids are going to listen to this anytime soon, so I'm going to go to put it on here. [SPEAKER_07]: My wife and I are looking at getting a dog soon for our boys because [SPEAKER_07]: dogs are wonderful.

51:48 [SPEAKER_07]: They're great friends to human beings. [SPEAKER_07]: You know, they're their man's best friends kids love them. [SPEAKER_07]: It's great training for kids. [SPEAKER_07]: So we want to get our kids a dog once we have a backyard fence. [SPEAKER_07]: So the dog is a place to run around and stuff like I guess my kids are listening in the car to this.

52:01 [SPEAKER_07]: They might hear this. [SPEAKER_07]: So Lauren if you're listening turn it off. [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we're going to immediately pause. [SPEAKER_07]: So I want to work on this Chris Burrish from Dallas. [SPEAKER_07]: I want to work on not having to stain, but just having animals in their proper place.

52:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's a great way to say. [SPEAKER_04]: And I want to also highlight something that's a very funny juxtaposition. [SPEAKER_04]: First that Chris, you picked up that we're not, we're not super fond of animals in our houses. [SPEAKER_04]: I also own an almost hundred pound dog. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

52:28 [SPEAKER_04]: So I need to highlight something. [SPEAKER_04]: This is the perfect thing that I think highlights what Fatherhood is. [SPEAKER_04]: We both have an active desire to not have something that we have. [SPEAKER_04]: And it's not going anywhere anytime soon. [SPEAKER_04]: The reason we have a dog is for my kids.

52:44 [SPEAKER_04]: My kids love it. [SPEAKER_04]: It is 150% for the kids. [SPEAKER_04]: my dog, I train the dog. [SPEAKER_04]: So the dog, like, I don't even call it his name. [SPEAKER_04]: I just call it the dog. [SPEAKER_04]: But wait, what is his name? [SPEAKER_04]: Jango, they named him after Star Wars, because all the family have dogs with Star Wars names.

53:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, it was John Marcos started, it's a dumb thing, any of his Star Wars nerds. [SPEAKER_07]: What is his dog's name? [SPEAKER_07]: What is it? [SPEAKER_07]: Clearly not that memorable. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no, no, no, it's clearly not Han Solo. [SPEAKER_04]: So Phil and I have a dog named Trooper for Storm Trooper.

53:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, and then they've got Gosh, what is it? [SPEAKER_04]: And then we got Obi, which is Rebecca's dog. [SPEAKER_04]: The Kylo, which is Kylo Ren. [SPEAKER_04]: And we're naming our dog that's with the villains. [SPEAKER_04]: I do [SPEAKER_04]: I don't the super Kylo. [SPEAKER_04]: This is not complicated, but it's not my world.

53:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, this is not my world. [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't want anything to do with it, but my son and my daughter, you know, I four kids, but one of my special needs. [SPEAKER_04]: And this dog is the most comforting thing to her. [SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, I get emotional talking about. [SPEAKER_07]: Complicate your life for the sake of your children.

53:50 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm for it. [SPEAKER_04]: So so I need to highlight Chris. [SPEAKER_04]: I couldn't agree with you more that Yes, if I could choose and have all of my way, which I can almost never have I would choose to not I don't need any more companionship in fact in the stage of life I have too much No more companionship.

54:07 [SPEAKER_04]: I am full on companionship But my kids are they thrive with the dog and so [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, so often, I look at the dog and I'm really grateful. [SPEAKER_04]: And then I also, at other times, I'm like, I just, I never grew up with that need. [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't have pets in my house.

54:23 [SPEAKER_04]: So I don't have context for it. [SPEAKER_04]: So I think it's a beautiful example of what father it is. [SPEAKER_04]: Like, we both would choose differently. [SPEAKER_04]: And yet for the greater good, we are having to do something that we don't love. [SPEAKER_04]: Wait a spiritualize that.

54:38 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, but it is spiritual for me because if not, I'm going to freak out. [SPEAKER_07]: I think about this because I think about my knee-jerk reaction of disdain for animals that I don't want them to be there. [SPEAKER_07]: And then I think I hear stories about like St. [SPEAKER_07]: Francis or I look at other people in my life who are like, just very gentle and kind and welcoming to animals.

54:57 [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm like, I think I need to work on. [SPEAKER_07]: You know it's really so yo y'all keep me accountable I need more kind of they had other faults though. [SPEAKER_04]: They might have been good with animals, but they had other faults that you don't So I mean they love animals, but they're horrible to their kids No, the father of the opposite don't realize everyone's got their thing if everyone seems like they've got something I mean no one has it all that's all I'm gonna say like people that are really smart usually not fun to hang out with I'm just telling you it's the truth You don't like hanging out with me If you're assuming you're smart I like how you took that on like [SPEAKER_04]: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait

55:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's take away your modeling career. [SPEAKER_04]: That's what I love to talk about. [SPEAKER_04]: No, I love modeling career. [SPEAKER_04]: Goodbye. [SPEAKER_07]: This is a great period of the episode. [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for sending your questions in. [SPEAKER_04]: We can't wait for season two.

55:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Check back soon.