220. How to support your partner in labour and birth with Mitch Papas

0:13 Welcome to the Kick, your expert-led podcast, helping you explore and learn everything about getting pregnant, pregnancy, birth, and becoming a parent.

0:22 On the podcast and our online pregnancy program Grow My Baby, we share my experience of helping more than 4,000 babies to be born.

0:30 And our experience of running a women's health clinic and parenting for boys.

0:34 We're here to help everyone to feel empowered in pregnancy and birth with real-life practical information.

0:42 Welcome everyone. I'm going to be upfront and honest. Dr. Pat has had one of those weeks where I don't know how many hours he has worked, but he has been getting up at six and then he's been getting home at eight, falling asleep on the couch, and then going back to work sometimes during the middle of the night.

1:04 So every time I looked at him and said to him, Pat, we have to do another podcast. And he'd look back at me and I'd think, No, we can't. So I have reached into our archive and it's something that is within our private Grandma Baby program. We have did a recording some time ago with uh Mitch Pappas, who is a dad that is incredibly motivated and he's given us a beautiful story about when his baby Edie was born.

1:34 And it has so many tips in it that I'm like, no, everybody deserves to have this information. So if you've picked this episode up because you want to get some idea of what your partner could be doing during the birth to help you, this is the podcast for you. And I am thrilled to be able to have this open for everybody so you can get some free access to some really great information.

1:58 So my recommendation is to send it off to your partner. Mitch is incredibly motivated. And if uh all partners couldn't have, I don't know, 30% of what uh Mitch did to prepare for birth, that is really great. In the episode, we do mention the Grow My Baby program. And I just want to talk to people about what that is.

2:24 It is a program that has uh all the information that you would need. Our hope is that don't go to Google to get some of this information because Google is uh good at information only, it is not good at giving you the nuances behind medical decisions. You've got to know how to really interrogate the AI to get the right answers to those questions.

2:50 And the very, you know, the AI slop that we all know about. That is kind of the information that AI at the moment is giving when people put into their Google uh all the questions that they have about pregnancy and birth. So, you know, that is the main reason why we have been developing either our program so it actually has information that we're happy, that it gives great evidence-based information.

3:15 So the stages and signs of labour, what a birth partner can do in labour, packing a bag, um, or everything that you would need to your partner to know, how to build a good birth plan. We've got all of that within the Grow My Baby program, which, if you're interested, is in our show links. So uh today, enjoy this episode with Mitch.

3:40 Um and you know, if you're like me, you might have a little tear by the end of it when when little Edie arrives in this world. It's a beautiful story. I hope you really enjoy it. Grow My Baby members, this is an exclusive audio just for you. Mitch Pappers has kindly said that he'll come on and talk to you about his experience during his beautiful little girl Edie's birth.

4:04 So I welcome to Mitch Pappas.

4:07 Thank you, Bruce. It's it's great to continue our conversation from the May podcast for the exclusive listeners. The birth for of Edie was was really special for us, and I'm keen to kind of share that that experience for the case. I'll probably cry.

4:22 That's what birth stories do for me. All right, let's start with sort of the nitty-gritty. So tell me, what pre-learning did you do to prepare for your partner's birth?

4:34 So I kind of made a really conscious effort to just be as curious as I could possibly be about birth. And this is following on from kind of being as curious as you can be about preconception and pregnancy, again, being as curious about the birth as possible. So I jumped onto Spotify and just searched birth, pregnancy, labor, you know, all these keywords and just found as many podcasts as I could.

5:00 And I just grabbed random episodes and started listening to the people talking and the voices that I liked, I stuck with, and the ones that I didn't, I kind of didn't end up going with. So I listened to podcasts every single day. And I I probably listened to more than what the normal person would be able to listen to.

5:17 I did about three to five hours a day, and that sounds like a lot. But when you jump up in the morning, and if you've got a dog, you take your dog for all, it's maybe a half an hour or put your headphones in and there's half an hour of a podcast. If you go to the gym and work out, or if you go for a run, there's another hour while you're cooking or while you're at work.

5:34 Um, these are other times of the day. If you're on your lunch break, you can get another hour, hour and a half in. So that's probably how I manage to get so much in, but you don't need to do as much, as I said. If you can just take the dog for a walk in the morning or um after work on your drive home or on your commute home on public transport, half an hour or an hour a day of listening to podcasts about birth and just getting as much knowledge as you possibly can.

5:56 I think having that knowledge is the most important tool that we can have as birth partners because at the end of the day, you don't want to enter that delivery room and have absolutely no idea what's going on. You're just going to put more pressure on your partner who's probably thinking far out. I'm going through this and he's got no idea and he's not supporting me at all.

6:14 So as I said, be the best partner that you can be and take that ownership on yourself and learn as much as you possibly can.

6:21 We do see and hear the woman who's birthing then starts to worry about the partner who's, you know, really struggling or fainted, or you know, you can't help if you're faint, but you know, they're really struggling. So the the birthing mum starts to worry about them, and that's the issue that we really don't want to happen.

6:38 So Mitch has joined us in his second pregnancy, so he didn't get the grow my baby information in that. So our men hopefully are reading some of the information that their partners are reading. Get to know the signs and stages of labour, get to know what you can do within those different stages of labor.

6:56 And that's where I want to start too. So, firstly, Mitch, how did George's labour start?

7:02 Before I answer the question, I will just touch on a couple of more things that us men can do to kind of get involved. So the first thing is packing hospital bags. So obviously, you need to get this done before labour starts. Get this done as early as you can. Just start Googling what goes in a hospital bag, what should men pack, what should women pack.

7:19 Have a conversation with your partner, get the bags out, start throwing things in, learning where each and everything is in that bag because in the depths of labor, when your partner says, Grab me the such and such, and you don't you have no idea where it is, is not going to go down well. So really get involved in packing the hospital bags.

7:36 I think that's a really important part. Another one is have a conversation with your partner and see if she'd like to listen to music during birth. And that's something that Georgia really, really wanted to do. So I actually created a playlist on Spotify and I shared the ownership with her so she could add her own songs in there.

7:52 And we would just every night over dinner chuck on some songs and say, Is this one that you want? Is do you like this one? Do you not like this one? You know, throughout the day at work, send her a song. Do you like this one? She can put some in. And then before you know it, you've got hours and hours of songs in there that your partner has specifically picked.

8:09 It's on your phone, so you've got the control of it so that when you go into that berth, you can pull your phone out and bang whack on the music that you've already gone through over months and months of planning that that's what she wants to listen to during birth.

8:21 Did you just take like a little portable speaker?

8:24 Yeah, so that's the other thing. So make sure you've got a little Bluetooth speaker. Some hospitals have regulations about what electronics you can and can't bring in. So just check in the hospital appointments. Sometimes they'll get it tagged, electrical tagged, if it's a plug-in. But just try to get a Bluetooth speaker that's got a bit of battery life if you don't have access to a PowerPoint.

8:41 But generally, most delivery suit will have a PowerPoint there. And make sure you've got the Bluetooth speaker paired with your phone before you get in there because you don't want to be mucking around with technology and trying to pair the Bluetooth speaker in the delivery suite. I've I had nightmares about that.

8:56 So I was testing it every day for about the last two weeks to make sure that it was all organized. The other couple of things is Georgia wanted some scents, so diffuser. We just went to Chemist Warehouse and grabbed a diffuser and we grabbed three or four oils that she liked the sound of and we put them on at home.

9:13 And she said, I don't like that one. I like that one. And that's the one we went with. And learn how to use it, right? So make sure you know where the water goes, make sure you know where the oil goes, make sure you know where the on button is. The one we got had flashing lights, and Georgia didn't like those.

9:26 She said, Do not turn these. It was, you know, rainbow colours and strobes and so these are the type of questions that you really need to ask your partner that men typically don't even think about. But these are little things that are just gonna make the birth so much nicer experience for your partner.

9:40 When you walk in there and you go, right, I'm putting this playlist on, I'm putting this diffuser on with the scent that she likes, it's gonna just it's gonna help a lot.

9:48 No, but and also knowing that sometimes even during the labor, your partner might change a mind. So whatever she thought was a good song at the time when you were making the playlist might not be what she wants to listen to.

9:58 Yep. And and I think that'll probably flow on to the next part is don't take offense. Try not to be offended by anything that occurs in the birth. I mean, the birth partner is going through a lot of pain and trying to birth this baby. So if you do something or you've or you've spoken about something before that she said she liked and she tells you to go shove it, don't get offended, just move on to the next thing.

10:21 Um, I think that's really, really important. An analogy I'll use is for the men out there, if you're playing sport and you broke your leg and you're in an excruciating amount of pain and your partner says something to you and you tell her to get stuffed, she's not going to take offense. She knows that you're in pain and that she needs to just move on and keep supporting you.

10:37 So just think of it that way.

10:38 Yeah. Did you labour at home?

10:41 Funnily enough, she was only 36 weeks and she had her work wrap-up party, lunch party on the Wednesday. She went and had some acupuncture on the on the Saturday morning. We went out for lunch with family on the Saturday lunchtime. We got home or sitting on the couch and Georgia's waters broke.

10:58 Yeah, right. Which only happens in 10% of pregnancies. Really? Yeah.

11:03 Okay. That's really interesting to know. So, yeah, 36 weeks, really early, right? Waters breaking, no contractions. We always spoke about when she went into labor and how we would kind of react and how we would manage it. We kind of wanted to make it really fun and exciting. So when her waters broke, we kind of started laughing at each other.

11:19 And she said, Have I just um weed myself? I I don't know if this is water or if I've just weed myself. So luckily, Georgia's mum is a midwife, and we rang her and put her on FaceTime and said, I think Georgia's waters have just broken. Can we show you the water on the floor and can you tell us what you think?

11:33 And she said, It's definitely her waters have broken. You better get into the hospital. And so then Georgia started kind of thinking, Oh God, you know, we've got to quickly race in. And given that her contractions hadn't started, I kind of just said to her, Hey, you're covered in water. Give me your pants, go up, have a bit of a shower.

11:51 We can make our way in. There's no rush. And kind of tried to calm calm the situation down a little bit. I'm sure if she was having some contractions and it was all happening, it would have been a bit of a different story. But I think it's really important in those early stages as a birth partner to remain really calm.

12:05 It can be a really big shock to the system for both of you, but specifically mum, especially if she's never been through it before, if it's your first pregnancy. So it's really important for you as a father and a birth partner to just remain as calm as possible and be that kind of voice of reason and be level-headed in that situation.

12:23 And so you eventually got into the hospital and then did her contractions start spontaneously?

12:30 So we got into the hospital at about 7 p.m. and we got hooked up to the machines and she wasn't contracting. And we stayed in the room for probably five or six hours and nothing was happening. So it got to about midnight, and they said, look, because you're 36 weeks, we're going to keep you here and we're not going to induce you for another week because we want to wait till 37 weeks.

12:49 So you're going to have to stay in the hospital. So that was kind of a bit of a shock to us thinking, far out, you know, a week in the hospital before labour can actually start. And of course, because the waters have had broken, um, you know, there's some antibiotics that need to be administered and so on.

13:03 So we were in a public system, so I was actually sent home at midnight, which again was pretty hard because, you know, we're apart from each other and I'm not there to physically support her. But, you know, I said to her, I know it's going to be pretty hard, but just try and get some sleep. And I just reassured her that I was going to head home and get some washing done because she'd soaked through another pair of trackies, funnily enough, and that I'd bring some food in and I'd be in in the morning.

13:54 And I came home and I did a load of washing and and I cooked up a really big batch of pasta and I did a few things around the house. And then I finally went to sleep at about 3 a.m. And at 4 30, she called me. You better get to the hospital because I'm in the delivery suite and I've got some pretty harsh contractions.

14:12 Wow. Well, that's good because you know, you could have been in that situation for a week until they thought, well, 37 weeks, we better get on with it. So, I mean, I know in our clinic we've had lots of experience of people going to water's breaking too early, labour not starting. So, you know, in in a way, that's good.

14:29 However, we'll get to it, but whether ED was classed as Prem. And so you got in there, and then what was what was going on?

14:37 So I did the mad daff. I'd only had about two hours of sleep. Stereotypical, what you see on the movies. I'd grabbed everything that I could from home and jumped in the car.

14:45 You're like, I can't miss the berth.

14:47 I can't miss this birth, yeah. And and I didn't know what I was coming into, right? I got to the hospital, I you know, quickly grabbed a car park and raced up to the counter and I said, My wife's in labor, you know, I need I need to get through. And of course, the lady behind the desk kind of had a bit of a smile on her face and said, Yeah, just down the corridor on the left, you know, really casually.

15:05 And I thought, why is this woman so casual about this? And I kind of raced down to the corridor and rang the bell, and no one was answering, and I'm knocking on the door. And finally, you know, midwife slowly walks up to the door and says, Oh, come through, no worries. You know, again, really calm nature.

15:19 And at that point, I kind of thought to myself, okay, I think I need to calm down a bit here because it's clear that these midwives have done this, you know, hundreds and hundreds of times, and they're not flustered here. So I think I just need to just reset myself before I walk through that door. And I'm really glad that I did because I walked through the door and Georgia was sitting on the end of the bed and she looked up at me and you know, she was crying and in pain, and she said, I need an epidural, I have to get an epidural right now.

15:48 So, winding back a little bit, I actually booked us in for a birth class, a calm birth in class, with a lady that I connected with on Instagram. And a couple of the tips that I learned from that is that while mum is going through labor, you know, and having these really intense contractions, there's a lot of things that she's gonna say and yell at you and swear and make all these statements.

16:10 Georgia had in her mind that she wanted to have a completely natural birth, but she was completely open to any interventions that need to occur if it meant that the baby would enter the world safely. So we went in with an open mind, but she she wanted to have a completely natural birth if she could. And one of the techniques that I learned was that if they ask for something, ignore them, give them a couple of moments.

16:34 And what I did was in that time I went and gave her a kiss and a hug, and I said, you know, everything's gonna be okay. I'm just gonna set up the room, give me a moment. So I set up the speaker, I set up the diffuser, I pulled the blinds down, I grabbed out an exercise ball and put a mat on the floor.

16:49 And she actually didn't ask me again. And the technique is that if she asks you again, if it's the second time, then you need to reiterate it and state it back to her and say, Are you sure you want this? And if they say yes, they've asked you three times, and that's the point that you need to be the voice of reason and say, No problems, I'll organise it for you, and you need to step in.

17:07 But she actually didn't ask again, so that technique.

17:10 You had the self, like she would have been waiting for you to come. Like I can imagine that would have been relaxing to her in in so many ways. For you just to walk through that door would have been, you know, number one. Better than an epidural.

17:23 Yeah, I think the term I need an epidural may have been code for I need you. I'm so glad that you're here. When I walked in, you know, you're in a hospital, right? So it's hard not to be a medical environment, but there are techniques that you can do, such as pulling the blind down and putting the music on and putting the diffuser on and making sure the room's nice and dark and kind of making it more of a homely feel than a hospital feel.

17:42 So I think that was a really important piece. The other thing is that you know, I got her onto the floor and I I got down with her on the floor, and she liked the position of being over a medicine ball and kind of swaying around. So I think that really helped her and got her into a bit of a better mindset to kind of proceed with the rest of the birth.

17:58 So just for the questions that you would ask, did she do the questioning of the healthcare team, or was it you? Or I'm just trying to um give men an idea about when to step in and when to allow your partner to be the driver.

18:14 So it's obviously a really high-pressure situation, right? But you need to remember that mum's going through some really painful contractions and she's feeling very overwhelmed. And it's really difficult for her to make clear decisions and even talk. Georgia couldn't even talk through her contractions.

18:32 So it's really important that as men, we're there as the voice for her. And we need to be aware of a couple of things. One, we need to know about all of the types of interventions that could occur, and also what she would prefer if possible, so that when you're going into these conversations with medical professionals, you know exactly what mum wants, and you know exactly what could happen, and you know exactly what might happen and what might be required to make sure that the baby's safe.

19:01 There's also the flip side to so there's there's the part that some mothers might say, I want a completely natural birth and I want no interventions, and that's okay. And there might be times that it's actually the best decision for the baby and for mum to have an intervention. And I think it's important that whilst mum might be saying, No, don't give me anything, I don't want anything, at the end of the day, she can be a little bit frazzled.

19:21 And you need to be that voice of reason and that that calming influence on the situation and have that perspective that, hey, this might be the right decision. You know, I think we should go down that path. So you need to be able to have those conversations with your partner, and you need to be able to have those conversations with the medical professionals as well.

19:37 And I think the only way that you can do that is one, learning about everything, being curious, listening to podcasts, listening to audiobooks, asking doctors in all of your appointments about words that you've never heard so you know what they mean, Googling things, Google will be your best friend, all of these things, just going as knowledgeable as you can so that you can have that level head and have a clear perspective on how everything can go.

20:01 Hopefully, people won't have to Google because they've looked up the Grow My Baby program, Mitch.

20:06 Absolutely, absolutely, yes.

20:07 So we've got a, you haven't seen it yet, but we've got a birth plan, which is an adaptable, flexible birth plan. And our hope is that both parents are doing that together. So that they're making those decisions together and they know the reasoning behind why they've put some preferences in and know that it's twists and turns.

20:25 And so what happens when the next twist or turn occurs? What's our next state? What's our next set of decisions that we need to make? So fantastic.

20:32 Yeah. Men, a little tip out there for you. If you're not confident in remembering all of this stuff, it doesn't hurt to bring it along with you in your notes on your phone, a screenshot on your phone, print it out in paper, whatever it is. This is not a time to bluff your way through. If you're not sure that you'll remember, just do whatever you can to make sure that you can remember this type of stuff.

20:52 Oh, how perfect. That is great. Was there anything that surprised you by Edie's birth or George's time during the birth?

21:00 Yeah, there were a couple of things. Firstly, as I mentioned just before, just the calmness of all of the medical professionals that are involved. And I think that's a really good guide for us men that they are just absolutely amazing the work that they do. We had a beautifully calm and wonderful midwife during our birth, and she stayed with us the whole time.

21:21 I was actually talking to her and her shift was meant to finish an hour into the labor, and she said, No, I'm gonna stick around and hang out with you guys, see this through with you. That really surprised me. And I think as men, we need to vibe off that. We need to really just make sure you're going in with that calming influence and that level head so that your partner can really, you know, have that trust and faith in you that you're gonna make everything a little bit easier, rather than, as you said, it could go the opposite way, right?

21:45 You go in there, you don't know what you're doing. The last thing you want is for the birth mother to be stressing out and thinking, I need to, I need to be having the conversations with the medical professionals, I need to know what my options are, I need to tell my husband to go and do this or to go and do that.

21:58 And I think that's just extra pressure that mum doesn't need in that situation.

22:02 So yeah, I think very special people choose to be birthing support people. Like I've honestly never seen Pat phased about anything. He's just, you know, one step in front of the other. That's why they chose to be in that profession, I'm pretty sure. So yeah, that is good. Once they start looking a bit more bustling around, you know, something's on the go.

22:23 But even like I I was raced into an emergency um cesarean and that was very scary. I was actually being run down the hallway on a gurney and the calmness was still there, but it was with purpose. So everybody was moving around with like precision. Purpose. The whole thing was stressful because we'd got to that stage.

22:43 However, everybody around me was were just like a well-oiled machine. And I think that's important too. Okay, so anything else surprise you about the day?

22:51 This is probably going to be a really obvious one, but just the ability for women to give birth is absolutely incredible. And I think as men, we'd really need to embrace it. I was actually quite nervous and quite afraid of what I was going into, right? I I mean, as men, you know, this kind of stuff is confronting.

23:08 And I think we really just need to embrace it. It is seriously amazing what you'll see your partners go through. It'll completely change the way you you look at them for the rest of your life. And I think completely embrace it, understand everything that's going on and what they're going through, and it'll really surprise you and shock you.

23:27 Was there anything in particular that you were fearful of?

23:31 As much as I had learnt and read and listened and researched and asked, I still had this thought in my mind that I didn't know enough and that something would happen that I didn't know about and that I wouldn't be able to support to the best of my ability. And I think my passion was to just make sure I knew enough and I knew as much as I possibly could.

23:53 But it it is hard. I mean, it's hard for me because I thought I didn't know enough. And I kind of feel a lot for fathers out there that don't go to work and do all that kind of pre-research and pre-learning that they go in there completely blind. And don't my advice is just don't put yourself in that situation that um you could potentially be exposed.

24:12 Just learn as much as you possibly can. So I think that was probably the biggest one for me is that fear of kind of letting Georgia down and not being, you know, a good support partner for her. But those are feelings that I'm sure everyone will have going in, whether you're the most experienced person or not.

24:26 Oh, absolutely. How did you feel watching Georgia in pain?

24:30 Obviously, complete empathy. And the first thing you think to yourself as a male, there's nothing I can do. And I think that's the most common response and common thought before going into a birth with your partner is the man thinks, oh, there's nothing I can do to help. But there actually is, and there's a lot of kind of techniques that I went through.

24:47 So one was massage, and what I would suggest with that is try that before birth because the partner might not actually like it, right?

24:55 Or you might be really bad at it.

24:57 You might be really bad at it. You might be doing it in the wrong spot, you might be doing it too hard, too soft, whatever it may be. Just try it beforehand. One thing I will mention is try to do and say as many things as you can. Don't fall into the trap of thinking, I don't want to do or say the wrong thing.

25:13 So you don't do anything at all. And I think that's what most men fall into the trap of. I don't want to upset her. I don't want to do the wrong thing. What if I do that and that she doesn't like it? She's gonna yell at me. Don't think that way. She's gonna yell at you and she's gonna say things to you.

25:27 Move on to the next thing. One thing that happened in in Edie's birth, Georgia was really, really hot. Her skin was was boiling hot. And I could feel the heat radiating off her. So I went and grabbed a face cloth and I put it on the back of her neck and she turned to me. I'll never forget this. She turned to me and said, That feels amazing.

25:44 Don't stop that. Keep that on my neck. So that was me. For the next half an hour, I was just back and forth. And I actually grabbed another cloth. So I had one in my hand that was wet and cold, and I'd put it on her neck, and in five minutes, that cloth that was on her neck was boiling hot again. So I would leave that on her neck, run back to the sink, wet that one again with some cold water, bring it back, put that one on.

26:06 So, as I said, keep trying things. And when she says she likes something, you know, whether it's the way you're massaging her or the way you're encouraging her that she's doing a great job or that, you know, the cob press on the back of her neck, stick with it. If that's something she loves, stick with it.

26:19 Did you have some little sayings that you said quite a few times that she thought, yep.

26:23 It's funny because you know, I played sport, as I said, for a long time, and I've got all these kind of inspirational quotes, and I just thought they were a little bit tacky, but all I could think to myself was don't say it too often because she's gonna get annoyed. So I was trying to think in my head, okay, it's been long enough now, I'll say this again.

26:39 And I think it was just encouraging her and saying that she's doing such a wonderful job. And I think that reaffirming that she's doing such a great job is really important for mum because there are doubts that go through your mind, how dilated am I? How long have I been in labor? Am I going to be able to do this?

26:55 All these doubts that go through mum's mind. And if as a birth partner, all you can do is just sit next to her and just reaffirm that she's doing a magnificent job and you're so proud of her. I think they're really important types of phrases that you should be mentioning to her.

27:09 So Dr. Pat has definitely said that one of the most encouraging males that he's had in the room was a personal trainer. And he said it was his coaching style. He just had the right phrases at the right moment. The belief in her, a lot of belief in her. If I suppose a partner starts to worry that, you know, things aren't progressing as well as they should or as fast as they should, then that erodes what that woman's feeling about her own body and about her own process.

27:35 So yeah, that's a really good example. I think you know, a lot of men out there have played sports. Try to use your experience that you've had in sports and how coaches have have encouraged you to keep going or how you've encouraged players to keep going. Also in the workplace, right? In corporate environments or on a building site when when something goes right and you you encourage your teammates and your colleagues to keep going and they're doing a great job, refer back to all of that stuff.

27:58 Just try it, right? Try just try to use as many encouraging phrases as you possibly can to make sure that mum's feeling really, really supported during those painful, painful moments.

28:09 Riding the waves. When Georgia was ready to push, and like there are different phases, and people, because they've read about the signs and stages of labour, they'll they'll know what I'm talking about. So the pushing phase for Georgia, what was your involvement then?

28:22 So when I got into the hospital, it was around 5 a.m. And as I said, I set up the room and we got onto the floor and she said, uh, I need to go and have a shower because I'm so hot. So we trotted off to the shower. And before we got to the shower, the toilet was in halfway between the shower and she said, I really need to go into a poo.

28:39 And of course, she sat down on the toilet and she was making some interesting noises, and the midwife came in and said, Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, get off the toilet. You're pushing. You need to come back to where we were before. So that was kind of the moment that I knew that it was go time, you know, from the research that I'd done.

28:55 As soon as midwife comes in and says, Hey, hey, hey, you're pushing, that was go time. So that was really the moment where everything started to get really serious. We got back on the floor, Georgia started vomiting. So the midwife ran and grabbed me a you know a bag and I held that up to Georgia's mouth for her while keeping the cold cloth on the back of her neck.

29:12 And she turned to me and did the old, I can't do this, get me out of here. Call. And that was kind of the moment I thought, right, we're we're about to go here. And shortly after that, Edie entered the world, and Georgia pulled Edie out herself on all fours on the floor. And that moment was just unbelievable.

29:30 It was Georgia and I kind of sitting on the floor, you know, Edie in our arms, and that was 7 a.m. So it was two hours from when I'd arrived. And the midwife said to me afterwards that Georgia was sitting upstairs in the in a room by herself, having period cramps from midnight till 5 a.m. She ended up being six centimetres dilated in that time.

29:51 Amazing. Wow.

29:53 The effort that she went through, and she still to this day says it was only period cramps. And I don't believe her, but you know, she's such a strong, strong, brave person that kind of sat in a quiet room on her own. Didn't tell anyone, mind you, didn't call any of the midwives till quite late and just pushed through that on her own.

30:09 So it was a full-on experience and a really magical one and one that I'll I'll never forget. And and hopefully it's equipped me well for the next birth.

30:17 Yeah, how exciting, honestly. So I think what we hear from some males is that they really don't really feel like they're part of this little family package that's just begun until the baby's born, and then they talk about how they feel that the bonding didn't happen as fast as they wanted. How did that go for you?

30:38 Yeah, it's really common that a lot of men actually say all the months of pregnancy that I went, as I said, to every single doctor's appointment. I would always ask Georgia how she's feeling every single day. How are you feeling? What are the movements like? Trying to connect as much as you can and and putting yourself in her shoes to really understand how she's feeling.

31:01 And you'll be surprised how connected you actually do feel to the baby when you do put yourself in her shoes and try to understand how she's feeling, both mentally and physically. The other thing that a lot of men mention is they didn't they don't feel connected to the baby till quite a few months after birth.

31:15 And I think that's due to kind of breastfeeding and you know the baby being so attached to mum. And again, that's kind of an area that I like to challenge and say that's probably the time that I felt most connected to Edie. There's a lot of things that um us men can do in those early stages to really feel connected to the baby.

31:32 And although obviously we can't physically breastfeed, there's a lot of other things that we can get involved with, you know, such as obviously changing nappies and reading the books and settling them, figuring out when their feed routines are and cleaning up after them, burping them. You know, all these little things that seem kind of insignificant and you think, oh, that's not going to make me connect to the baby.

31:51 You'd be very surprised that if you really got hands-on and got really involved as much as mum, obviously not physically with the breastfeeding, but with everything else, you'll be very surprised at how connected you can feel to Bob in those first few months.

32:04 Yeah, absolutely. When you realise their dependency and they're very, very dependent on you for everything. I mean, I think that's something that a woman naturally feels, and it's good when the dad understands and and realizes that too. That's probably a dog walk's worth of information, Mitch. What do you reckon?

32:21 Exactly. That's right. Is there anything that you would like to finish with?

32:26 I'll just go back to the very start. And my main point here is that as a father and as a partner, be as curious as you possibly can and find out as much as you possibly can. At the end of the day, whilst your immediate reaction to pregnancy and birth is that it's a women's related health topic, it's actually not.

32:44 It's your baby. It is 50% your baby and it is 50% the mum's baby. And just because she physically carries the baby doesn't mean that she needs to be 90% of the parent and you need to be 10% of the parent and that you're useless. Challenge the social norm at the moment and what it has been for so many years that you know men are useless and we just come in for the for the laughs at the end and and we don't have much involvement, and mum has to take on all of the responsibility.

33:12 Do as much as you can to help support and be a complete equal in everything that you guys do together. Be a complete equal. So that's probably my parting words.

33:21 Hurrah! That's excellent. Thanks so much, Mitch. We look forward to seeing you join the program and and read through the information and and further impart your wisdom if you choose to. Thanks for that.

33:33 Yeah, that'd be great. Thank you.

33:35 Thank you, everyone, for listening today. I hope that you got tons out of this and that if you're a partner that this has been sent to, congratulations. This is a great way to start preparing for birth. If you want to know more, just go back into our back catalogue. We've got so much information on our podcast about all the different birth interventions that Mitch talks about, um, all the different things that might be happening to get prepared for labor, what happens if the baby comes at home, what the partner can do.

34:08 Like there's tons of information. Have a look through our catalogue. And if you want even more information in a sequential or organized way, then consider coming onto our Grandma Baby program. All right, everyone, until next week. We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you like uh this episode, please go into whatever app you're listening to.

34:30 Give it a little five-star like um and subscribe. That really helps us uh promote our story and information and um uh experience to a very wide range of people. Okay, until next week. Keep growing those babies, keep well, and we'll be in your ears next week. Bye for now. Hey, even though Dr. Pat is, well, a doctor, and we get lots of other doctors and other experts on our podcast, I just need to remind you that this podcast is for informational purposes only.

35:06 We share lots of medical insights and experience, but everything we talk about is general in nature and may not apply to your specific situation. Please always consult with your own healthcare provider for your individual medical advice when you grow your baby.