Racing, Restructuring, & Drop Bears, Oh My – What's News

0:00 I often look at it with rose-tinted glasses as Mike said. Uh have a good my box wear when they have a 27-5 front and rear, and you know I am running a 29.

0:21 Hello and welcome. It's the NSMB podcast. I'm your plan? host, Pete Rogeman. I am here today with the furry knuckle himself, Michael Ferentino. Hello. Hello, Mike. Also, we've got AJ Barless from Squamish with us today. Hi, AJ. Hey, how's it going? Good. How were you gents doing? What's happening? I'm doing great.

0:48 How were you guys doing? Mike, that's an entirely happy response. There must be something wrong with you? AJ, how's Squamish? Is it is it uh were you holding it about looking forward to some riding this weekend?

1:02 I'm hoping I can ride this weekend. It's not to talk about the weather, but it's been bloody cold this week for an Australian. So quick shock to the system. But uh yeah, we're getting out there.

1:12 Nice. Staff, we've all gotten taken a little by surprise after a sweet fall, but probably Mike's the only one that can complain because I imagine there's actual snow on the horizon there.

1:22 On the horizon. It's not really on the ground. It got got a little bony last week? I had the joy of driving over Monarch Pass in the first proper snowstorm of the season. And it was a war zone. There are buses with it just glued sideways, and all these people who'd been caught with their automotive pants about, just two-wheel drive cars forever, just like scattered, like you're sort of playing eternal frogger in the snow, just trying to get over the pass.

1:51 It was a doozy.

1:53 What's the what's the winter tire changeover date culture like about in Colorado? Like, is it an October 1, October 15 thing, or do people leave it as long as they can?

2:03 You know I see some grizzled old folks driving around here, and you can hear the Subaru with the studded tires from a mile away like all year round. Um but I think most people probably wait until somewhere between now and Thanksgiving. Like Halloween to Thanksgiving is the decorative gourd season and winter tire season.

2:29 Oh, and vest season too. Better vest.

2:36 I was gonna say, if you're going over Monarch Pass at this time of year, you just like run it, see what happens.

2:42 Well, that's what we did. But you know I've had four-wheel drive and snow tires, or not snow tires, but all seasons. So it didn't it was still bony, like it was slippery. Um I think this one we just weren't expecting it. The last couple winters have been pretty mild. Last winter didn't really even happen.

3:01 So I this was just one of those wake-up calls, like, oh yeah, you're at 10 or 11,000 feet above sea level. The weather will change quickly. It is that time of year.

3:11 Yeah? Staff, figure it out? Well, there we go. We just talked about the weather way longer than we meant to. So sorry about that, everybody. We hope it's nice where you were and you've got good riding ahead of you coming up. We tried. Listen, the three of us were here today to talk about um some items in the news.

3:30 We want to go around, chat about what's what's relevant. So why don't we jump in? As long as no one's got anything else to say about the weather. And I think the first thing we want to chat about, and I'll I'll get you to start us off here, AJ, is that we've been waiting for a while and the UCI has finally released the 2027 Mountain Bike World Cup schedule.

3:54 Uh AJ, why don't you why don't you start us off there and tell us what we what we can see so far.

4:00 Uh what we can see is that the World Cup is going more and more to what you would better refer to as the European Cup. Um there was another round, which wouldn't have saved it a lot, to be honest, that was speculated on being in North America at a new location. Up until very recently, uh inside the industry, people are thinking that was happening or potentially happening.

4:28 So something's happened there to stop that one. But we were coming back to Whistler, we're closing in Whistler. Um, everyone at Whistler Black Home seems really excited about it, which is awesome. Uh and not to get too caught up on Whistler with it obviously being close to my heart being up the road.

4:49 Uh there's been some discussion about whether it's going to be better or worse than this year. Will there be more people because they saw last year's and they want to be a part of that? And the ones who are there were like, I've got to be a part of it again, or will people peter off a little bit because of like been there done that, saw it?

5:10 Um but yeah, other than that, we were in Europe the whole time for eight rounds. So there's nine rounds total instead of ten this year. Is that right? Or is it I think including world champs, it's ten this year and nine next year. Uh, and world champs is in Leger. I've got eight downhills, eight cross-country on this schedule.

5:36 Uh nine plus world champs. Right. Nine including world champs. There were two cross-country-only venues. That's Nove Mesto, uh, which is kicking off the World Cup mountain bike schedule, uh 21st to 23rd of May. The other cross-country solo venue is Soldier Hollow. That's the one US stop. So cross country only again in Soldier Hollow.

6:01 The two downhill-only dates, uh this year, it is my goal to figure out how this is spelled. I grew up in French immersion, so I've got my own thoughts, but the way they spell this is screwy. Ludonvier, Ludinville, as everyone says. That's a solo downhill venue, as is Whistler for the downhill World Cup finals, as you said, AJ.

6:24 And and then let's just quickly, we won't get into dates and all that, but quickly run through all the all the twin cross-country downhills. Um, we've got Leo Gang, we've got Leger, La Twille, Andorra, Lenzerheide, and Val di Sole. Not a lot of surprising names on there. Um, Korea, one and done. No Fort William again, no Mont-Saint-Anne again.

6:55 So most of those were while they're all well-established tracks. Some we like watching better than others, some the riders like better than others. We're all, of course, super happy that Whistler's there again. That wasn't a surprise. One week later than this year, we are already really lucky with the weather.

7:14 Let's not talk too much more about weather, but uh that could get interesting though, couldn't it? That's gonna be spicy.

7:21 Yeah? Yep. And so I don't know. I I want to have a moment of silence for Mont St. Anne here. I mean, I hope it does come back, but that one that's been a staple for a long time. And the fact that it's you know on this continent, it's it's been such a consistent and well-loved event. I do feel sad about that one.

7:41 I don't think anything's permanent, but I hear you, it's it's a little weird, just like Fort William being left off without getting into the internals of it. I I think from what we seem to be hearing from one or two places, it doesn't sound like Fort Williams coming back in the near future. Don't know too much about Mont Saint-Nan.

8:02 I don't know either about what the UCI would think about two rounds in Canada. Um yeah, we would love it. Um Saint An, you're right though. Mike, it's been around since the beginning and it's a great track.

8:19 You raise a good point, though, about two rounds in Canada. I mean, population base determining, you know trying to figure out how the UCI reads its own tea leaves and and allocates. Um yeah, Canada two rounds might be a tough sell from a global perspective.

8:38 Uh Montan is scheduled to have the world champs, I think, again, in 2031, maybe 32, in the 30s. 31, I believe, yeah.

8:46 That's right.

8:47 Okay. Um, and apparently there's a lot of lift changes going on on the mountain these days. That is apparently a contributor to why they're not doing it right now. Whether that's the sole one, I don't know. I don't think it is, but Okay, good.

9:03 And they I I don't know the details, but obviously last year they hosted uh a big crankworks event. And I know there's as there is with uh mountain bike events in general, when they've hosted World Cups, there's a lot of government involvement in that. So it's possible they've committed to crankworks for several years, and and that may supersede their ability to do both.

9:29 Don't know. Anyway. Um all right. Any thoughts about the other tracks on there? Like you said, AJ, it's it's all Europe until Soldier Hollow for the cross-country athletes and Whistler for the downhill.

9:45 There's some uh there's some discussion been happening actually in my house with my wife about it going back to the same locations and whether UCI and what is their new name, spark something or other rather than WBD. Oh, I don't know. You get that spark cycle, something anyway. W D B B D's new name or group.

10:10 Uh whether they actually want to have the same location all the time, kind of like F1 and Moto GP, where the tracks were the same every year and it's up to the competitors to make it different and interesting. Um, but then the cynical side of me says that it's because there's so much backing in Europe for the World Cup from brands and teams that that's where they want it.

10:36 Because I've heard repeatedly that uh writers from Europe were pretty vocal about how hard it is to deal with jet lag and things like that when they're not in Europe, but everyone else has to do it all the time over there. So there's a couple of things we've been sort of just mulling over here. I don't know if any of it has any weight, but it wouldn't surprise me if there's a bit of this and a bit of that involved in it all.

10:59 We know that travel time and logistics were a big deal, it's expensive. It's this eliminates the problem teams had last year getting from Whistler to Lake Placid on the downhill side. But obviously, you've got a bunch of races in Europe, and of course the schedule is spread out a little bit, but you can have your plan?

11:23 base of operations there and you never have to travel all that far, relatively. Does that make it a bit of a problem if you're trying to capitalize on global appeal? You know you can you could make that argument. They they tried Korea, uh, didn't worked out this time. I you know.

11:43 So I I think it's I'll I'm gonna be the establishment guy for a change. I think that there's a uh a good reason why they're sticking to the tried and true. Um AJ pointed out, you know we're getting sort of more Moto GP Formula One in the way that downhill races actually were run. What with you know you do your plan?

12:03 free practice, you've got your plan? qualifiers, and you race. And it's uh much more intense, the races we've talked to, have all talked about the fact that there's no protected status anymore, that it's just it's a lot tighter than it used to be. Throwing new tracks at them on a regular basis. Like imagine if there are two new tracks every year that they had to figure out that could mess up their heads, especially for something like Korea, where some of the logistics about it are not necessarily as dialed as you might want it to be.

12:31 There's a lot to be said for the known quantity in terms of what they're dealing with as race teams these days.

12:38 For sure you'd be worried uh or always concerned, uh, at whether you're at the UCI or WBD Spark. Let's let's leave it at Warner Brothers for now, just because that's what we know. But you you cannot afford to have an event tank. And the way these worked is it is a local organizer that gets awarded the contract to put the race on.

13:05 So you know Whistler was uh not a gamble, but was an unknown entity before that event took place. Pretty solid gamble based on Whistler's reputation and track record for putting on events as big as they get. But if you're trying to introduce one or two new venues every year, you were vastly increasing the chances of there being a big screw up.

13:29 And at the same time, if you're asking increasingly more money from the organizing committees and they're investing in the infrastructure required to put on these events to a increasingly high standard, then to be fair, you've you've got to build stability in. And what we had heard was that Whistler was, I believe, uh, you know a two-year minimum.

13:58 It would be hard to imagine them signing on to do only one, two years with options, and I think that would be pretty, pretty standard. So yeah, I I think it'd be interesting to dig in some more and for us to become a little more educated on how this all works if we're able to. But, you know I I guess it's also a matter of, you know sure, the same tracks were familiar to viewers.

14:22 You get to remember these big moments and compare how the riders this season versus the riders five years ago handled some things or what changed or whatever. And that that can be exciting. New tracks were a crapshoot as much as new venues. But, you know it does also let some of them perhaps get stale.

14:41 Like we're at risk of that with a few of these, I'd say. Without, you know.

14:46 There were past riders from the World Cup already saying that they're well, they said it before they retired, but they're tired of seeing the same events, the same races. And since this news came out, Dean Lucas has been pretty vocal, saying he's not so sure that he's keen on what's happening there anymore.

15:02 And yeah, it's a shame. I mean, I understand every point being brought up and and that. It's just I think it would be awesome if it was a bit more spread out, and those regular repeated locations are at least in different parts of the world. I think that would be pretty killer.

15:19 Speaking of speaking of repeats, we haven't talked about world champs yet. Where were those gonna be and when, AJ?

15:25 Uh they're gonna be in Leger as well. Uh September, sorry, 24th of August to the 5th of September, I think is the date. And do we understand that to be the same course as the World Cup course? Uh the rumors I'm hearing is that it's not gonna be the same course, but they're just rumors and speculation at the moment.

15:45 No one's concrete on any of it.

15:49unknown Okay.

15:49 Interesting.

15:51 Very interesting.

15:52 They've got the terrain there though, they can play around a lot. So the possibilities were good on that one.

15:59 Staff, for sure. Okay. I think we should move on to the next thing. That is hard MTB. We're now uh a few days removed from the finals. AJ, why don't you why don't you take us through what's what's hard MTB and why should we Okay?

16:18 So Hard MTB is uh a unique race format that Braden Bringhurst has established. Um he wanted to he wanted to give uh riders a um a contest to show their best skills, I guess. So in his words, showcase versatility, explosiveness, and technically sound riders. Um there were uphill challenges, there were like dual slalem challenges, short downhill challenges.

16:52 There's four, I'm missing one right now. Um his goal is to make it global. So in 2027, so next year, he wants this to have different locations in the US, so various event locations throughout the US, and then in 2028, his goal is to have it on different continents or different countries at the least, so maybe one in Canada.

17:19 Um I don't know. I mean, it's good to be ambitious. I don't know how he's gonna go getting something going next year when he just had his first event this year, like official event this year. Um it's pretty exciting. The races seem stoked on it. Uh Asa and Anna did the double podium for frameworks, took the top steps in in men's and women's about there.

17:44 Um they both did it on their trail bikes, I believe. Um, although Asa was practicing on his e-bike. So the frameworks guys have specialized e-bikes that they ride, and he was practicing on that, but he uh ended up racing the frameworks.

18:03 And Anna won the the women's e-bike climbing classification as well. So they got more than one of those things. I like this, I think it's a cool format. Like it it speaks a lot to me of what would be in the motorcycle world be like hard and duro, um with with some really interesting twists and and also throws back to uh the once upon a time, not to sound like I'm really old, but there used to be things like Scott trial events where you would have there'd be a hill if you're gonna win the weekend, you had to do well in the hill climb, you had to do well at a trials event that was like a speed trials, so your plan?

18:38 dabs are counted as was your plan? time, uh-huh, and then there'd still be a cross-country and a downhill. And this kind of takes it and compacts it into a tighter, more technically demanding, faster in all directions format. Um look bony this year. Like I the bits of the course I saw are intense.

19:00 Staff, apparently the course is that course they raced in Boise or outside Boise is going to be uh smoothed out and made more human because some of the features were pretty intense. Uh and left as a public writing facility for people to come and write, which is pretty sick. And I think that's what he wants to do with most of the locations, which is a super sick way to go.

19:25 And what do you guys think about it as a spectator sport? I mean, I I think it was streamed live, correct, AJ? Uh I saw some highlights. It it is interesting. I I don't know yet if I think it's exciting. I think there's a lot to learn there. I will say that as a rider watching it, you can have an appreciation for for the skills of the riders.

19:51 I'm not sure that translates if you're not a rider. So that helps define who your plan? audience is here. And I wonder what what impact we think that'll have on the growth of the sport of this category, I guess.

20:04 I'll pull devil's advocate on that. I think, like visually, I think this year was challenged in that it was a it's sort of in this bony sagebrush outside of Boise. It wasn't the most picturesque location. And the course looked like it had been built by a few people. Um I think if he gets some steam behind him and can actually have more time and more resources dedicated to building it out from a spectator point, I think it could go huge.

20:36 I think there's a lot that is really compelling about this. And yeah, I'd I'd like to see what goes on. Especially, especially as they pull e-bikes in. Like e-bikes were in this from the get-go. Um I really think it's going to be a place where e-bikes were probably God, I I don't want to doom myself by saying this, but I'll do it.

20:58 This may be the validity of e-bike competition. The validation, sorry.

21:05 Can one of you explain how like we've talked about e-bikes and and bikes both being used in competition here? Can can you guys break about how that works?

21:17 Uh I can't 100% yet. They seem to be able to practice on what they like. They can race something different. What I and I'm gonna chat with Braden next week about him and about this event in in detail. Uh, but one thing I really want to clarify with him is can you race a different bike for each of the disciplines?

21:39 Like for the climbing challenge, can you pull out your plan? e-bike and then get your plan? trail bike for the Slalem piece and then put a downhill bike out for the downhill one? That hasn't been super clear to me.

21:51 Right. And it does look sort of like they're mixing them in, right? Because you have Acer winning this overall, but Max Clark comes second. But Max Clark wins the e-bike division. Max Clark was on an e-bike, I think, for the whole thing. Right. Um I do think they need to tighten up some aspects of how they present it.

22:13 And I think that's part of it. But I'm still excited to see where this goes.

22:18 Staff, I'm I agree. I'm super excited to see how it goes, but it does have some kinks to worked out still. The the live broadcast is pretty challenged, I would say. It's quite green. Um, you've got good commentary, Ken McCall's there, and uh Mikey Harderer, who were both competent on a microphone for sure.

22:38 And um and then the camera angles were pretty good. Like on one side of me is like this is really good for the size of event this is and how new it all is, and the other side of me is these angles were still shit, it has a lot a long way to go. So I guess I appreciate it because I I have been behind the scenes a bit and seen how hard it is to put that stuff together, but maybe if you hadn't, you'd look at it and be like, I can't watch this.

23:09 I'm not sure. It does feel a bit the pace is a bit fast in the broadcast, too. Like it's almost like you want a bit more storytelling to learn these things that we're questioning here in this discussion. Um yeah, there could be a bit more going on for sure.

23:26 Yeah? And I, you know the storytelling aspect of a broadcast, that's where the expenses start getting really laid on, right? Like now you've got a much bigger team and all that, but that's that's a good point because I think you're trying to bring in the audience and make them understand why they care and what's relevant and all those things.

23:44 So it's it's a huge challenge for sure. It's it's it's cool seeing someone take a swing at this. Uh, you know that's that's absolutely true. And I think we all hold Braden uh in high regard. He's uh he's a formidable individual, so it'll be interesting to see where this goes in the near future. Okay, moving on.

24:08 Uh let's talk a little bit about some product releases that have happened in the last little while. I wanted to start with 32 inches of wheel from reserve. And that came within about the same week of Continental announcing uh future availability of a dubnetal, which is not a bullseye tire for a lot of us, at least on the North Shore.

24:39 I think that's probably one that for you, Mike, maybe is at least more in line with some of your plan? riding. I think I'm already on record about that, though, as well. So it's not my first choice of a tire. Not your plan? favorite tire. In any case, I I think we don't want to get too bogged about into the 32-inch conversation here.

25:01 But we are all noting that it felt like around this time last year that whispers, rumors, hints, people at brands are saying, get ready, it's coming. You know have you got a frame lined up for the onslaught of tires and wheels and everything that, you know blah, blah, blah? And it hasn't borne out quite so quickly as we may have expected.

25:27 And so I think we're all still sitting here saying, you know we'll we'll wait and see a little bit. We all learned quite a few lessons, I think it's fair to say, through the process we went through as 29ers fought for respect and eventually obviously got there. But what do you guys think? Do you care at all?

25:50 Are you curious? Do you just want this whole idea to go away? And that's before we even start talking about 30.5.

25:58 I care. I want it to happen. Um I I again, I was an early adopter of 29-inch wheels, but I I I don't get rose-colored about anything. I don't think anything is really going to change dramatically. Like we've got the new revolution on the horizon. I don't like I gave up believing in that decades ago. But I see a place for 32-inch wheels.

26:21 I'm at the short end of what they'll be applicable for. I would totally ride a 32-inch wheel bike as a hardtail. I'm curious to see what happens with them in the gratosphere. I think it's gonna be tricky for a while, packaging them on full suspension bikes. And that the more travel you get, the trickier it's gonna get.

26:39 But you look at like reserve, they've got a wheel set now, a carbon wheel set for these things. It weighs 1900 grams for the set. That's kind of heavy for a 29-inch wheel set, but that's pretty damn light. Like it's it is actually it's not even heavy for a 29-inch wheel set, it is a trail bike weight.

26:58 So if you're now getting a wheel set that is at a competitive weight and strength and rigidity that you don't have to worry about, not saying you did with the prior 32-inch wheels, it uh it kind of cuts about the number of obstacles in the way to people being able to implement this. I'm stoked for it.

27:21 Okay. AJ, what do you think?

27:24 Uh I don't know what to think about it yet. I'm as I said off off uh set, I'm biting my tongue a lot because of the stance that I took with 29 in the early days, and anything can happen. So I'm watching to see what happens with that. Uh I've been offered to ride one in the next little while, so I'll go and have a spin on it, but personally I don't see myself changing.

27:48 I still run a 27.5 uh rear, and I often I often look at it with rose tinted glasses, as Mike said. Uh, how good my bikes are when they are 27.5 front and rear. And here I am running a 29 or so 29 a front. So I don't know. Um it'll it'll happen to some degree. Will it change things a lot? I I don't know if it will be as big of a change as 29 was in the industry.

28:15 It is a bit more out there than a 29 as far as uh the parameters around it that need to change and update were more extreme, I would say. Um and has one won a World Cup this year? I mean, that's what everyone's saying. It's faster, it's faster, it's faster. The same argument was said to 29. A lot of people are screaming, what about fun?

28:40 But the only place we're seeing them right now is on XC race bikes, and I don't know if one actually won a World Cup this year.

28:47 No, I don't think so. I think they podium.

28:50 No, yeah, and and not till the end of the season. Not that I was paying super close attention.

28:56 Which could just go bound to growing pains with a new bike size wheel and everything.

29:00 I mean, we saw this with 29, it's tires, wheels, forks, but then also packaging and geo, particularly as you said when we're talking about fitting it into a dual suspension frame, and then what size human can fit these things? Uh I I I stand 6'1 with short legs. I tend to prefer a mullet in steep terrain.

29:25 I've got a bike or two right now with a 29-inch rear wheel, and I feel it on my ass from time to time. I can't imagine like a 32-inch wheel working for me in any of the contexts that I consider steep shell riding around here. If I was a cross-country rider based somewhere else, sure. You know I get it.

29:45 I get why you're excited for it, Mike. Um, personally, I'm I'm fairly ambivalent, but I am curious about how adoption goes, about how different industry players roll it out, who will learn the mistakes of 29, who will repeat the same ones. Right. Uh I think there's a lot of valid concern from industry and consumers out there about the fact that it it feels like something to use as a crutch because it's new and rely on that rather than you know good old-fashioned incremental innovation or whatever, you know like so.

30:29 Staff, I I I mean, I do think the more intense the terrain and the more intense the suspension need gets, um, the more difficult it will be to find favor for these things in much the same way that we did this with 29 H Wills 2, and you're right. You're they're gonna be riding right up some people's cracks uh on those deep downhills.

30:51 But uh then again, yeah, they so I just was doing a little research there while we are talking, and they did win the marathon world championship this year. Uh Andreas C. Walter, uh about six feet tall. Um Gwendolyn Gibson was second at the Soldier Hollow World Cup. The whole track team are riding him.

31:09 So Riley Amerson eighth in the men's. Um I think for cross country you would have to be either incredibly short or just incredibly close-minded to not at least be curious. I think as we get uh further into yeah, basically, you know you draw the is it a green, a green or a blue or a black, um the use case is gonna be questionable the steeper and gnarlier you go.

31:41 But I again like like AJ said, I am not gonna I will never say never on this one.

31:48 Staff, for sure. And the other thing that you know we we don't need to go much further into this, but there's the question of weight, right? Our bikes definitely got heavier as we No one even cares anymore.

32:01 Well come on, everyone gave up on weight.

32:04 I I I think it's it starts to matter. I I believe it works the same with area. Like when you increase the size of a of a screen by what feels like a small amount, you're adding a lot of area. And so when you translate that to a wheel, you've got a lot of added rim spoke and rubber adding weight. So I think the jump from 26 to 29 is not going to be as large in weight as the jump from 29 to 32.

32:36 It's just something worth noting that I think you're looking at adding a few more pounds again onto every bike, everything else being equal.

32:43 Staff, I think with cross-country it's going to be a minimal weight gain. I think as you get burlier, it's gonna get a lot heavier. You're right.

32:50unknown Yeah?

32:51 Staff, you're talking 900 grams for the XC reserve wheel. That's that's like middle of the road for an all-mountain wheel. Like Right, right.

33:01 Staff, like what's a lightweight 29-inch XC wheel? It's more like 1200. Staff, yeah. So that's 700 grams. We're that's pound and a half. Anyway, let's uh let's keep moving. I think we'll have more to say about 32-inch wheels in the future, and I sure as hell don't want to get bogged about into it right now.

33:23 Uh Okay. Um Canyon released a new spectral on, and on is the designator of their e-bikes. The notable part about that is that it is spec'd with an Avinox M2S motor, and they were the largest brand to have done this to date. Cam got a ride on one when we are up at Whistler for World Cup. He wrote about it.

33:53 You can read about it. One ride is tough to be able to say too much about. He had pretty positive things to say about the bike from that one experience. I was on the ride with him. We had an awesome ride up into the subalpine up in Whistler. Um, but I think the story here is that Canyon's releasing this bike one trim level at a time.

34:22 So this was the C9, which is usually or a C9 F. Anyway, carbon fiber, top of the range, minus, say, an unlimited version. And they announced it a week and a half or two weeks ago now. And if you go to Canyon site, you still can't buy the bike. So it exists on the website, but it doesn't exist on shop floors anywhere, and as far as we know on trails anywhere.

34:54 This is interesting because it follows the narrative that we've been seeing already with this motor, uh Avinox's M2S. There were some smaller brands that have inventory, but none of them seem to have a lot. And for the most part, this is a motor that was announced in April. And uh, you know there's not a lot of them out there quite yet.

35:16 They were appearing, but not commensurate with the amount of attention that this motor got when they first talked about it. I don't know if there's a lot to say here, other than it's interesting, you know you might have thought, Okay, maybe the reason there aren't a lot of them out there yet is because Canyon and whomever else on the large side of things as a brand has dominated the the orders and is you know getting a lot of the allocation.

35:45 But it looks like even Canyon has not got the allocation that they would like quite yet.

35:50 It's not vaporware, but there were hints of steam.

35:57unknown Yeah?

35:59 So when Canyon are telling us about this, uh they are they are spinning the release of it in this really cool way. Like, yeah, we want it to be kind of like, you know it's an album, but you release the singles off it one at a time. It's the sort of the staggered release. And in my mind, I'm going, that's cool, but also I just don't see the point.

36:22 But we're in this age where nowadays bikes release and there's usually inventory of them, and it happens. So if they had tried to release all, what, four models of this at the same time, they'd be even more back ordered than they already were. It's just their uh Avinox doesn't have the capacity to meet the demand that there is for them, and they're probably gonna have this stuff obsolete in a year anyway.

36:50 And then everyone will be back ordering the next generation, even though they've designed their bikes around this generation or something. I don't know man. E-bikes.

37:01 Staff, and we won't stay on this for very long, and and we can dig into what you're hitting at there, you know in in a future episode. But um I I just this is a lesson, you know we just came from a wheel-size chat. This is a lesson that we saw brands learn over and over again when the 27-5 and 29-inch bikes are being released quickly by brands around the world.

37:34 And every time a new and exciting bike got released, many brands still back in those days, which is about 10 years ago, a little more and a little less. But you'd come out with your plan? new dual 27.5, or your plan?, you know in those days, a new 29-inch trail bike was a big deal, and you'd get everybody all excited and throw all your plan?

37:57 weight into the marketing, the athletes, you know big production, and then you couldn't get the bike for a month or two months or three months. And so you just think, were you were you just selling your plan? competitors bikes? If you've released a 29er into the back then, into the world, hyped it up, talked about why these new wheels, big wheels were were so great.

38:28 Of course, you've got your plan? own suspension design and everything else, but you get the consumer excited to buy it, they try to buy it, they can't, they don't want to wait, so they just walk about the street and buy the one that is available. Staff, and we were we have seen the brands that were working with Avinox were doing everything they can to make sure that if you're shopping for an e-bike, that you're excited about this and it's working, but I think Canyon is selling their competitions M2S equipped bikes by doing this.

39:05 They won't see it that way because they'll think, oh, but you know ours, it's a spectral, it's a good bike, all that. But I I do think there's an element of that.

39:14 Ask it, AJ. I know what you're gonna ask. Do it.

39:16 Are the other brands actually selling the M2S Box though, or were they as hard to get as the Kenyan?

39:24 So, yes, might be smug, but they they were available in small numbers. And so it's it's valid. Like there aren't enough out there uh to set. I'm not I can't speak globally, but I know what's going on in Canada and I know to a degree what's going on in the US. Supply is not meeting demand at this point.

39:45 So that's a that's a somewhat valid. Well, it's it's a valid question to ask, of course, but I still wonder what's the rush.

39:58 My, my guess, and I'll put this as my final thought on it, is that this is uh this is not so much uh 2010's we don't know how to hit supply and demand. Oops, we released a bike and back ordered it for three months situation, as it is almost more like a pandemic-y type of thing where Avinox have a very clear idea of how much they can produce, uh-huh, but the demand for what they can produce so outstrips what they're producing that that's just how it is right now.

40:29 And I don't think that they were attempting to massively ramp up to meet that demand. I think they're probably holding on to what they're making and trying to ensure that they make it right. And the numbers that they build were just what they build, and the whole bike industry, meanwhile, is frothing for it.

40:49 And will they go buy another Avanach bike somewhere else? If they can find it, maybe. But maybe this will be something where people go, you know did I really need it? There's all this cool Bosch stuff is still out here. We could go get that Rose quipped thing. It might play back to the other um e-motor manufacturers, maybe.

41:13 Speculating.

41:15 Avinox holds the cards right now, but it will be interesting to see what the middle-term brand reaction is. If if I'm Canyon uh and I've ordered all these units, these motor units, and can't get them, but we've spent all this money developing a bike around that platform, that's very frustrating. Canyon was also part of the CVT Avinox launch madness at Eurobike.

41:51 So it's not like they haven't had visibility on what's going on theoretically. But you do have to wonder what that starts to look like. And to your plan? point, Mike, yeah, yeah, they they may this situation may drive people back into the arms of Bosch. And, you know we know there's some other stuff coming about the line in the next little while that should be interesting.

42:17 But uh it it just it's it's a little hard to figure out if Avinox is just thinking sort of in the short term, they've made this massive impact and created all this demand, which looks good if you're them. But if you're Canyon, you look at this and go, you've caused some real problems for us here. We've been a big part of helping get the word out, you know and get people excited.

42:45 And now we've we've got issues with this.

42:49 Or Canyon actually is gonna get their orders and they have their demand anticipated, and they just know that their supply is what it is, and they're trickling it out?

43:01unknown Yep.

43:02 Maybe. Maybe yeah, it it it's hard, it's really hard to say, and there's a lot more on this, and I I don't think we should get too sidetracked by it, but um for sure watch this space because we'll have more to say about it as as this situation continues to to develop. Okay, let's talk about other bike releases, non-electric version.

43:29 Speaking of cool bikes. Let's talk about cool bikes, AJ. Uh there have been there's been some news in the DH bike category. Why don't you talk to us a little bit about that?

43:45 Staff, I think the uh well, it's the most recent and the most exciting, but also plays really well into the announcement for a future announcement is that uh Da Vinci teased what can only be expected to be the new. Wilson downhill bike as part of their um messaging around their 40th anniversary for next year.

44:08 So the bike will be released in the spring, they turn 40 next year. Um essentially the messaging saying that it took us 40 years to make this. Um it's a cool looking bike, but we don't know a lot about it because it's very uh intentionally subdued in the in the releases, but we can speculate that it's the high pivot Wilson that Jack Pelland was racing a couple of years ago, and before him, Dak Norton actually rode one to the podium uh when he was on Junior Da Vinci.

44:46 Um that bike had dual 29 wheels, which is another interesting thing for a downhill bike today. Maybe the new final version for the release won't have that, or it'll be adjustable. Um, it's a high pivot, it still uses their split pivot technology. Um it still looks like a Wilson, which is good for the fan base.

45:11 They were a pretty sick looking bike and they have a lot of a lot of uh following behind them. Um yeah, I'm excited to see it. I I'm not so sure how I feel about announcing it six months before when they're gonna actually release it and making it known that it's gonna be announced again in six months.

45:28 What do you guys think of that?

45:32 I don't get it. I I unless there's the need to do so for commercial reasons that you can't see as a consumer. But then you still question. I I suppose you you could say, all right, well, if you're a privateer gonna race in 27, maybe you're thus happy to hold off. That's a valid point. Staff, that that could make some sense, you know.

45:58 If maybe dealers were able to take pre-orders, I certainly don't know that, but that would explain it. Otherwise, it's a lot of the same. I think they're selling other people's downhill bikes. I think demo is available. You're gonna talk about the uh the other one in a second. So yeah, not sure. Mike's got nothing to add.

46:22 Mike's out? Okay, Jay, talk to us about the Norco.

46:26 So, yeah, the Norco, obviously, that was released a little while ago. Um, most people would be pretty familiar with this bike at this point. Uh I will say that the released version turns some heads that weren't that interested in it before. Not myself, people I've spoken to. Uh, whether it be the royal blue colour that looked pretty nice or just seeing a polished finished bike rather than a raw alloy mule that for years, maybe because it was in the public eye for so long with so many bits hanging off it and things changing, it just developed this kind of like rugged garage mule look to it, even when it was almost finished.

47:10 Um, but yeah, it's an interesting bike. They have they have uh a carbon rear alloy front. I think that the frameworks DH bike is the only other downhill bike that does it. I'm pretty sure it's the only two bikes that have done it. I think I believe most bikes have a carbon front alloy rear if they're going to do a different material front to rear for manufacturing cost savings and stuff like that.

47:38 Uh, these guys were saying the same reason this frameworks, weight savings on the unsprung mass in the rear center. Um, and for stiffness was another point these guys brought up. That I say Norco as these guys. Um, so yeah, uh interesting bike. It's got a flip chip system that allows riders to change the leverage curve on the shock without changing the starting point, um, which is commonly what happens when you just flip one end of the shock chip, the leverage curve will change, usually going higher.

48:15 Um and then that makes it a little vague in the start of the travel. Whereas Norco have manufactured a system where the shock essentially moves like along the instant center, maybe. I'm not going to say that because I don't know for sure, but it moves along the bike rather than just one end of it changing a little bit.

48:36 Geometry is preserved when that change. Pretty interesting. The other small thing that we should mention is it has an adjustable idler pulley, so you can tweak the anti-squat to your plan? liking, to your plan? preference. Um, many people would be familiar with the Common Sale team doing that on their World Cup bikes, but I don't think it's been available to the consumer yet.

49:02 So that's pretty fancy for anyone looking to purchase a downhill bike to have at the races. They've got a bit more adjustability there. There is some discussion that's pretty interesting, though, about the price point of the bike. It's a premium price bike. I think it's $5,000 Canadian for the frame.

49:21 No, $6,200 Canadian for the frame, $4,600 US. Uh sounds pretty crazy. Um they said in their launch materials that it's a race-winning bike. Staff, Gracie's won a bunch of races in it. It hasn't done anything under a male athlete yet. And because of that, there is some discussion about whether that value is really there.

49:48 Um, I think what people want is to see it winning multiple races under multiple riders, multiple genders, doesn't matter. They want everything if it's going to be priced premiumly. That said, the competitive bikes out there, like the set uh specialized demo 11 that Dennis has done some stuff on recently, that thing's $9,000 for the frame in Canada.

50:14 And it's won, and it's got the pedigree that they're talking about in those arguments. So it's another few thousand dollars to get something that has won a bucket of races. Right.

50:24 That's maybe the Norco's not that four World Cups this year, right? How does that compare to say uh a V10 frame?

50:32 I'm not sure about a V10, but a common sale frame is about five or six grand. I remember looking at those a little while back. Canadian dollars, I'm talking. Um I think the V10's uh friendlier entry point, I'll say.

50:50 Staff, about 4,000 US, it looks like.

50:55 So it's probably similar to the Norco then.

50:59 Also a bit of a proven track record on that one.

51:02 Definitely, yeah.

51:07 Yeah. Just for in case anyone's wondering, Canyon's a bit of an outlier among those as a consumer direct brand, but Canadian dollars for the underdog spec, $7,600. That's a whole bike though. Sorry? That's a whole bike, though. That's a whole bike. Staff, right. And for the top spec collective version, $9,700.

51:36 There's not a frame-only option here, at least on the Canadian site. So anyway, I don't think we want to get too deep into the downhill bike market right now, but it is interesting, AJ. You know that you you bring that up for a not a full carbon uh frame up against a few of the others that were full carbon.

51:54 In in a market that isn't exactly gonna make any company's bottom line healthier. Like these were downhill bikes. It's their Halo products and they're vanity projects at the same time.

52:06 Staff, yeah. Part of it, you look at it, you know. Like when I saw the cost on the cam the commies uh earlier this summer, and I was riding bike parking getting all jazzed and like maybe I'll get a downhill bike again, uh, I was blown away by the price, and then I thought about Okay, you're you're helping support one of the best race teams on the circuit.

52:27 Like they have a huge team, they have the top riders, they have the most pro-pit setup, the most pro everything. Uh Norco were trying to do the same thing. Okay. But should it come about to one type of bike that, as you say, Mike, is more or less a vanity project a lot of the time, um, to make up those costs?

52:49 Or does that just get spread across every bike that a brand sells because you've got to cover it somehow, right? Or maybe they don't make that much money and and uh the factory teams were a marketing project, they're not about generating return.

53:07 I kind of feel that's sort of what downhill teams were. Um the company makes the justification, probably because the owner of the company, Max, really loves racing and really loves winning. And that's he could give a shit about the company profitable. I I don't want to put words in Max's mouth on that one.

53:27 He probably does care that Common Sol is a profitable company, but I think what he cares most about is racing and winning. It's sort of like Ferrari, yeah, as far as that's concerned.

53:39 There has to be a passion for it.

53:42 Staff, yeah. That's an interesting analogy though, Mike. And I think that every brand is going to treat that differently, right? We we know uh how successful the syndicate has been as a marketing vehicle for Santa Cruz. Norko seems to have adopted some of that desire. Uh, I think we would agree that without really knowing that in the case of Comun Sal, that is what Max seems to care about the absolute most.

54:11 And that's not news. He's been like that since downhill was a thing, right? Yeah? Sun. Um but it it is interesting, AJ, to look at it that way. Like, you know do we think this brand is trying to make profit when they sell these bikes, or were they just trying to perpetuate the marketing program and get a few more logo-clad bikes out there under people?

54:34 So uh yeah.

54:37 And I mean the downhill bikes, the downhill bikes were no longer uh more or less done at HQ on a computer with a bunch of test riders locally. Like there's, you know if in Norco's instance, Colin, I think I'm pretty sure his name's Colin, is their suspension engineer. He came from like race cars and stuff.

54:56 These were not just dudes out of school who want to ride bikes, they're career people who know what they're talking about.

55:03unknown Yeah?

55:06 Staff, and downhill suspension is different than the rest of the mountain bike world. Because for once you are in in some way, you have fewer constraints because that bike doesn't really need to be peddled. So you could adopt a comp you've got a completely different set of things going into the criteria set into the design brief, right?

55:35 It's the the express uh goal is to just go about as fast as possible on a variety of different tracks. Anyway, let's let's um should we keep going? I think we'll keep going. Staff, uh I'm I'm gonna change up just quickly. We are gonna go somewhere else, but because we are just talking about narco, let's get into Adidas.

55:59 Uh who are announced. Good worked. Staff, yeah. They're announced just around this time last year as the title sponsor of the Narco Factory DH team. And at Whistler this year, Adidas made a lot of noise about the fact that they're rolling out a new version of their mountain bike shoe line. Uh, everyone recall Adidas bought 510.

56:28 And I tried this out on a bunch of people. When do you think that was? I know we all know here. If you're listening along, try to make your plan? best guess. In 3, 2, 1, 2011, 15 years ago, Adidas bought 510. It has been that long. That was a huge surprise to me. So what have they done now? They uh they took over Dusty's for the middle of the week at Whistler, and that was kind of Adidas HQ.

56:59 There was there are narco bikes, and they had a couple of parties and a big deal. And Adidas announced a new shoe line. Um Freerider and Pro, and Freerider BOA and BOA Pro. So four new shoes. Uh, again, this is a release. You cannot get these yet. The athletes were riding them, so you could see them on the downhill course.

57:27 But I I believe we are told late March availability. It's certainly a few months into 2027 before you'll see them on store shelves. And the the big news, other than the fact that these were redesigned shoes, they certainly have similarity to some of the 510s they've replaced. They're quite. They still have stealth rubber, but they now have in place of the 510 logo on the side of the shoe, and the recent ones had the three stripes often like on the tongue.

58:02 The three stripes were now big and bold on the side of the shoe. 510's not completely ignored. You'll still see it on the shoe, but it's small and it's second fiddle now, and these were very much Adidas looking shoes, and the three stripes were impossible to miss. Thoughts?

58:22 I don't really care. Does the shoe still worked?

58:28 Staff, exactly. We don't know. No one's had a chance to try them. I mean, we'll presumably get our hands on some testers. That's what we've been told before the release, so we'll get a little time. But this is another uh, you know I don't think we're worried about Adidas selling other people's shoes.

58:45 It's not the same as bikes.

58:47 But yeah, I was gonna say, Okay, another brand who's put out some product that isn't available for six months.

58:53 Like it's it's it's great because we haven't. Staff, we haven't been seeing this, and all of a sudden it's it's happening a lot.

59:00 Yeah?

59:01 Um you know you know they're not, it's not a pre-sale, they're not taking orders to decide the batch size. They just I think they they look if you're Adidas, obviously they're the apparel sponsor too of the race team. So the the team's in three stripes, you know. I think the kits look like Eastern block weightlifting uniforms from the 90s.

59:24 Honestly, I I'm not a big fan of what they've done. Um but who cares what I think? That's just my opinion, man. They'll have something else next year. That's fine. I think it's great that Adidas is involved in the sport. I think it's a huge coup for Norco uh to have them as a title sponsor. It's a harbinger of good things for the sport in general, if big brands like Adidas want to be associated.

59:51 Uh and I think they just have this opportunity at Whistler to say, hey, we've got these shoes coming. We know we've got production versions ready to show. Here you go. Um, but yeah, it's it's interesting to see them doing that.

1:00:04 Do you think that's trying to do that? Do you think that's what it was? Like they're like, we're releasing these in March, but we really want to show them off in Whistler because it's way better than Sea Otto or putting on our own little event later on. We can tag team the World Cup.

1:00:21 Uh look, I think there was a lot of excitement around the Whistler World Cup, first of all, period, right? And not just for locals. I think Canadians and I think North Americans are excited about this. So, and there was there was a feeling, we felt it, of momentum going on. And there are other brands up there at that World Cup activating, right?

1:00:43 Taking advantage of the attention. Uh, those activations worked mostly for people who are there. But if you're if you're doing that, you go, Okay, great, you know we're we're gonna make this big announcement. We've been sponsoring this downhill team now for a full season. Uh everyone probably expects this shoe is coming.

1:01:04 Let's take advantage of a of a race scenario uh to do that. Otherwise, they can't they can't do that in March or February because there's no downhill until May or whatever. So, you know you need photos and exposure of the athletes in the shoe and all that kind of stuff. You know this is all the nuts and bolts of of a go-to go to market plan.

1:01:29 So I think it it starts with something simple like that, and then they go, why wouldn't we do something a little big and splashy? We're just up the road from Narco HQ, et cetera, et cetera. It starts to all come together and and it does make sense.

1:01:44 Um and it doesn't matter to release cover on a shoe that doesn't really get sold until next year, anyway. I maybe they'll miss out on the Christmas buying frenzy, but people in the Northern Hemisphere, let's say that that is the majority of the market, with all due respect to the Southern Hemisphere.

1:02:04 But you're coming into winter time. No one's buying downhill shoes as you come into it. It's the second to last race of the year for the World Cup circuit. Staff, let's show off our new shoe. You can get it next year. It's gonna be sweet. I I don't think it's bad.

1:02:20 No, I don't think it's bad at all.

1:02:22 I think that's that'll do fine.

1:02:24 Staff, I don't think it's bad at all. It's just curious. I will say this uh total speculation. But uh when Adidas brought out the uh the finally a Gore-Tex flat shoe, um, I'm I'm blanking on the family name, AJ. Trailcross. Thank you? Trailcross uh GTX. Staff, you know we'd been asking for that for a long time, but here on the shore and up and about the sea to sky.

1:02:54 I mean, that is that is what a lot of us really needed. Um they announced it, and it was a little bit of a blurry announcement, and we couldn't get there, and we are begging for it. And you know where they had them? Uh I want to say maybe even a year before we could get them here was in the UK. And it was one of these sort of vagaries of 510 slash Adidas, and I don't know if it was distributor or not distributor, but like supply channel.

1:03:26 I don't know what was really going on there, but I know that there are even reviews in one or two publications over there, and we did sort of seen a shoe at a booth at Whistler, and that was it. And so the reason I'm saying all of this, and I I have no information, and I I don't think this is likely, but maybe there will be shoes available if you live in New Zealand in January.

1:03:54 Who knows? Okay, and they just slowly start to slip out? Because if you wanted to sell these in Australia or New Zealand or anywhere else in the southern hemisphere, nothing's stopping you, and that the time is uh you know during our our winter up here. So who knows? If you if you just can't wait, maybe keep your plan?

1:04:14 eye on what's going on about there because I I do know that different Adidas sites have had obviously different stock and all kinds of different things if you if you poke around. So Okay, I think we can move on from stripes and shoes and stuff like that. Uh I will say though, before we do move on, polarizing looks.

1:04:37 Some people think they look smart, they look like sneakers, etc. A lot of other people, you know who move my cheese, can't take change, not happy at all that they don't look like 510s anymore. Don't know what else to say. Also don't know what's going on with some other models that weren't um discussed.

1:04:55 We don't know at this point.

1:04:57 So I mean, if you remove the three stripes, it's a sharp looking shoe. That's really what everyone's getting upset about, is just the stripes.

1:05:07 Is that what you think? Like they don't like is the first thing.

1:05:12 Yeah? First thing I saw was a toe box and a black one. I think I was like, oh, that looks sick. And then I saw the rest of the image and I was like, oh, that's pretty gaudy. I don't like big branding though, so maybe that's just me.

1:05:24 But yeah. Okay. We'll uh we'll come back to that. We'll see how the shoes were when we get some testers. I think that's gonna be the most important part. All right. Uh look, there are a couple of news items that came out together. It was not done deliberately by the uh by the parties. I'll announce them both and then we can talk about them one at a time.

1:05:54 But on about the same day, uh just over a week ago, we heard about the Unfortunate news that Cannondale was closing head office in Connecticut and laying everybody off. And at around the same time, we also got wind that Santa Cruz was shuttering the Juliana brand. Now, the reason we that I raised those both at once is because those were both entities owned by the Pawn group of brands.

1:06:28 Let's talk about them one at a time. Let's start with Cannondale. You know sad day. Mike, why don't you walk us about the road there a little bit?

1:06:38 Well, it's been a run, hasn't it? Again, we are talking just about when did when did 510 buy Adidas? When did Cannondale come into business? 1971. So that's a long, long time. But and I will be the turn. There's the hand-wringing that has gone on about this in the last week or so on social media, which now it turns out apparently the algorithm is all about you gotta like talk to the camera.

1:07:06 That's the thing now on Instagram and all that other stuff. So everybody who's ever ridden a bicycle is just, oh, who carinandale. And I mean, I get it, but it's been a long time since Annie Montgomery left the building in Danbury, Connecticut. Um and it's it's been quite some time since they are owned by uh first Pacific, then Durrell.

1:07:36 Um I'm my heart goes out? There were a hundred and what 143 employees got chopped there, and they've pulled it back into Pawn World. But I also feel like the brand has maybe been less than it once was for quite some time. And I'm saying that as cleanly and diplomatically as I can. I've got there we have been watching, especially since since before the pandemic and then through the pandemic, just the the constant ticker tape of brands that we love and care about going away.

1:08:17 And this happens, it's a part of the arc of brand life, and uh that's that's what I had to say about it.

1:08:27 Staff, I think Cannondale maybe for some people it it it it really had uh a flavor, a character. Staff, but I think Cannondale earned a lot of uh respect of sorts based on always being willing to be different, to try something new. And those things didn't always worked, and that's the way that goes. Motorcycle sure, motorcycle, yeah.

1:09:00 But I mean a lot of other things too that you know Head Shock, lefty. I know that they had their day when they are good, but Canadale was always yeah, happy though to branch out? Yep, and mount the the mountain bike world is based on that attitude. So Cannondale, I think for a lot of people was emblematic of the maverick origins of of mountain biking.

1:09:32 Yeah? And I think I've heard from a lot of people who never owned and would even be candid in saying I I really hadn't necessarily wanted to own one in recent days, not to say that that didn't make them think that they are good bikes, but we're sad to see them go, nevertheless, because it was a unique brand that was that is undoubtedly an important part of the the history on the mountain bike side, and of course on the road bike side, where Cannondale was an even larger entity, at least in its heyday.

1:10:02 Yeah?

1:10:03unknown Yeah?

1:10:03 To me, that's that's the sad part. I think you're right, everything changes, we move on. I I think Cannondale, every couple of years I'd hear from somebody new there who was saying, hey, we're we're really gonna make an impact now. We mean it this time in into the West, right? Into the kind of riding you guys like over there, et cetera.

1:10:22 And you know you'd be sort of ultimately met with the same lack of impetus to follow up on that. So yeah, it didn't it didn't always land on our radar, but I understand why it felt like a loss to a lot of other people. And and of course, primarily it's a lot of people losing their jobs in a in a tough time in the bike industry, and that's that's really sad to see.

1:10:43 That's hard.

1:10:45 Is the brand is the brand done though? It's just the North American office is being shuttered, right? Um's GT doing.

1:10:58 Yeah? Sorry, Mike, the release said uh that I that sales are being rolled into reps already based in Santa Cruz who already rep Santa Cruz and Cervello. So what I took to mean from that, and we we didn't bother looking into this too closely, I think because it's maybe a bit of a developing story, but also because of what Mike's about to say, I think, and I'll let him say it.

1:11:32 But it yeah, Mike, I know what you're gonna say. But is it existing stock that they're still selling? Are they still gonna manufacture bikes? We don't we don't know the answer to that. But AJ, the you know engineering and design and marketing and and all those folks, you know and all the other departments, they're gone.

1:11:53 And I think a few people will remain at Pond HQ.

1:11:57 But I th I might be wrong, but I thought I read those departments are moving to Europe. Like two or three of their Europe facilities. Freiburg was a name that rings a bell.

1:12:11 You know it in some ways, if it if the brand does continue to s to exist and is being manufactured and there's design going on, Europe wouldn't be a bad place for it.

1:12:21 Um to focus, right?

1:12:23 Well, Cannondale's always had this. I was working at a bike shop in San Francisco in the early 90s, and we would just get this stream of customers. Europeans would come in, look around the shop and go, You have Cannondale? You have Klein? And we'd sort of apologetically shake our heads and point out the nice bridge stones that we had, and they'd just turn around and walk out?

1:12:45 It wasn't big tubes of aluminum, they didn't give a shit. They've always been huge in Europe. And you know I this is my total segue moment of why'd it go out? They won the cross-country World Cup this year. Luca Martin stomped it. That's a mic drop, if ever there's one.

1:13:05 Yeah? Yeah? Okay. So that went out as a press release. What did not was the news that Santa Cruz was folding up the Juliana brand. It just happened to sort of break at around the same time, depending on who you are and whether you got the newsletter a week or so earlier, maybe two weeks earlier, uh, sent directly from Juliana announcing the news.

1:13:42 So I I have it on authority from someone at Santa Cruz that that was not never the intention to have those two pieces of news hit at the same time. But the the Juliana news is is different. Um I I don't I think for some people it's sad news, but it's not it's not a loss in the same way. It's it's entirely different.

1:14:02 But the the news is that the Juliana brand, which was launched in I think 2014 to be the uh bike brand owned by Santa Cruz that was um specifically aimed at and for women, uh is being folded, and they will continue to make bikes with the intention, of course, of selling them to women, but they will be under the Santa Cruz banner.

1:14:32 And I, you know I I I fired off some questions to Santa Cruz. I spoke to Seb Kemp there, friend of all of ours, former NSMB author and contributor, um, just to get a little more about that news and what what the decision was based on and what it means now for um I guess Juliana owners, but also women riders out there who who will want to buy a Santa Cruz uh for pro athletes for everybody else.

1:15:05 And he and he said that uh increasingly what they are hearing from riders, from women, was that they, you know nothing had changed in terms of we want to be represented, we want to be listened to, we want bikes that we want to ride, all those things were the same types of attitudes as when Santa Cruz made the decision to open the Juliana brand in the first place.

1:15:34 But what had changed was that uh a lot of these voices are saying, but we want it to be on the same terms. We want to ride Santa Cruz's. We don't see why we need our own brand, we don't need to be called out separately. Representation at this point means the same. And so it was it was interesting talking to him about it.

1:16:03 And I think we'll we'll just recognize right now we're dudes talking about this, so we don't want to be saying things on behalf of women, but I'm just reporting on what I heard from uh a dude there who is very uh attuned to this situation and who listens to a lot of a lot of female voices talking about it.

1:16:21 He gave me a quick anecdote about uh Vero Sandler, uh free rider, Santa Cruz athlete. And he said when they are initially talking to her about her coming aboard as a sponsored rider, she said that she wanted to ride for them, but she under under no terms did she want to be riding a Juliana, she wanted to be on a Santa Cruz.

1:16:46 So anyway, it's mostly a I don't know change in the market's not the right way of putting it, but just a change in the in in what they are hearing from women who feel like they, you know they can be represented, damn it, and they're here, but they're what they want to be under the Santa Cruz tent.

1:17:06 Um yeah, we don't need a handicap. It's kind of like the WMBA has a similar thing. People were always saying, Oh, you should lower your plan? rings a bit so you can dunk easier and all this kind of stuff. And the women of the WMBA were like, get stuffed. We just want to play the game the way you play it.

1:17:20 Why should it be different?

1:17:22 Staff, I like that analogy, AJ.

1:17:24 That's good.

1:17:25 Yeah?

1:17:25 That makes sense. It's uh Staff, I I was um at Santa Cruz as Juliana was being reborn, and that was also possibly why I got kicked out the door. Who knows? Um It's a bummer to see in terms of what it represented at the time was like this this the prevalent idea about women-specific design prior to that had been you need smaller hand grips and you need shittier geometry and you need it to be pink.

1:18:01 And I'm not saying I'm not singling out any one brand with that, but that was kind of a a thought that had gone through the bike industry leading up into that. And what Juliana was was, no, these were serious bikes. This is a Santa Cruz. And it's just got, some would say, uh better colors and graphics to choose from.

1:18:22 Um it was an acknowledgement that women don't need to be talked about to. Women need to be talked to. We need to be seen and heard, but they're you're we're not gonna just cheap out and dumb about your plan? riding experience. And I think that served a pretty important cultural stepping point. And uh I also think I see what women were doing at Rampage and just how they're riding now across the board.

1:18:51 There has been an evolution in the culture in that time, in the time from when Juliana was reborn, because it existed once before, a very long time ago, when it was reborn as a brand to now. I I hope that women were not feeling as marginalized and condescended to as they are when Juliana came around.

1:19:21 Staff, I would echo that. I hope so too. Um so there we go. Uh if you own a Juliana, you will still receive full warranty support, as Santa Cruz has always been known for. So there's there's nothing to worry about there, nothing's changed. Although I suppose at a certain point, if you need um a new frame, it might it might say Santa Cruz one day, depending on what the remaining stock looks like of Juliana frames.

1:19:52 Um But I think they are very careful to say in the release about it that by no means do they think that the the worked is done on making sure that women were um served as riders, were listened to and supported, just that it's gonna happen from within the one big tent now rather than its own separate one.

1:20:20 Um so yeah, I think that's if I'm not wrong, that's the end of our news. That's it. That's it. Um there is no more news. There is that's it. There's nothing else new. But we did want to move into something else. Uh and that is to just get into something a little a little on the more personal end, and that's each of us talk about something we're keen about.

1:20:53 And uh AJ, I think you should go first.

1:20:57 Right. Uh I'm gonna change mine. It's gonna kind of be an extension of news. Sea Otto was on in Australia last weekend, and there are two new to me at least brands that were Australian born and bred that were coming out with some pretty interesting stuff. Um, one was Drop Bear Bikes, terrible name for a brand.

1:21:20 Uh, as an Aussie, I use the term drop bear as a joke all the time. Um, but to see yeah, to see a drop bear on laser etched on a pedal with drop bear written under it was pretty bad. But it is what it is. They had a super interesting pedal, uh press fit pins with like an O-ring around it to keep the pin in.

1:21:43 Apparently, they don't come out? Um that remains to be tested by people, I guess. But super cool to see. Um, and another one that really caught my eye was oh my god, I'm drawing a blank on the name. It was a motocross brand that's doing a stem that's dampened, damped, sorry. Um so it has a different way of mounting, and there's a bunch of pins.

1:22:10 It's a very interesting looking thing. It almost looks like a direct mount stem, but built into a regular stereotype. And then there's these little uh gaskets, I guess, underneath parts of it. So the stem has a little bit of play to take the vibrations out of your plan? hands. Super interesting. Um stoked to see Aussie companies doing something in the mountain bike space.

1:22:34 It's always been a question why there aren't more as far as like actual hard goods. Um, there's always been a media presence over there, but the hard good side's always been lacking. So that was pretty exciting for me. So that's my uh things that I'm keen on is a couple of dear to me Australian brands doing some stuff that is a bit different and pushing into the mountain bike space.

1:23:03 Cool. I like it. And now I'm interested to see it, so we'll have to we'll have to check that out? Uh all right, mine's um not one I expected to be talking about today, but uh last night I was uh I was pressed into service to help uh in the middle of in the middle of dinner being made uh with chili. And and Vanessa had me had me uh open a couple of cans of beans at the right time while she was off doing something else.

1:23:36 She said, I need you know do this please while I'm in the middle of of this. And so I was opening the cans of beans and one of them didn't open very well. And I uh was trying to bend the lid to let the beans out, and obviously the lid the lid snapped and sliced my finger pretty badly. Uh and I'll admit to yeah, this one.

1:24:02 I'll admit I'm not gonna show you what it looks like underneath. Uh over the years, I've had some close calls and some little slices from being a dummy and always been pretty lucky. And this time I was kind of unlucky. So I s I sp, you know I got my task done and then sort of sat on the couch with my hand elevated, pushing on it with a few other fingers to try to get the bleeding to stop.

1:24:25 But there was a there was a pretty good exposed flap there from the damn lid. So after it became readily apparent that the bleeding wasn't going to stop and it was deep enough and all that, I thought, oh shit, Okay, I'd better head about to the ER. So it was almost nine o'clock at night. I thought at least maybe that means it's not going to be super busy?

1:24:48 And I was lucky, I got about there and it wasn't. And I think they checked me in at 9 p.m. And I left with four stitches in my finger at 10 p.m. and got home, and it was, it felt like honestly, like a little bit miraculous. So the thing I'm stoked about today is the BC medical system, at least, at least in this context, or maybe more specifically, the Seashelt General Hospital ER.

1:25:19 I want to call out the folks there. They are great. Obviously, that was not a huge issue, and it felt silly. And this is not the first time in recent memory I've shown up at the ER with a really minor issue. Um, but they are fast and efficient, and I think the stitching job was pretty good. Only the first stitch hurt, and after that it was Okay.

1:25:39 So anyway, that's my thing I was stoked about. I'm not stoked about having to keep this thing bandaged and dry for a week, though it's going to get in the way of some things that I want to be doing with my hands. But it could have been a long time. Is it on the bend in your plan? finger at all? No, it's it's right on the pad.

1:25:54 It's like the the meat of the finger. Uh nowhere near tendon or anything like that. But it it's it was just, you know just kind of so it sucks for typing, but you can still ride a bike. Staff, I should writing should be fine. Typing is a little awkward, but I was able to bash out a couple emails today and stuff, so it wasn't too bad.

1:26:17 Mike. What you see here in the US, we just put some crazy goo on that and say lots and prayers. Uh huh. Hope you don't die. Um so you spent what, an hour? Roughly, hour and a half? Yeah?

1:26:35 Hour and a half door to door, let's say.

1:26:38 Yeah? I'm getting into what I'm excited about. I spent God knows, like five hours, four hours at a car dealership yesterday. Because I was selling. I was reverse trading in a car. I um a few years ago, some of you may recall the uh the stolen truck incident where I had this Ford Ranger that I had just bought brand new, and it was a massive monthly payment, and uh I felt sort of compromised about it, but at the same time I kind of liked it, and then it got stolen as I was coming back across the border from Mexico.

1:27:11 But it got stolen in California, not to throw shade on the Mexicans. Um and I was feeling like insurance would make me whole and I was broken and I didn't have anywhere to live, and I just had to get a car that day. So I walked and I bought a certified pre-owned Lexus GX460 that was basically about the forty-some thousand dollars that I owed on my truck that had insurance money, right?

1:27:38 And and the Lexus was so nice. Like it was it everything about it was so awesome, and then I put king suspension on it, some messed wheels, and it was just like my vehicle. And it I liked it so much that I didn't even mind the fact that my truck got recovered a few weeks later, and I had to just eat a giant hole of money to get rid of it.

1:28:00 Get it repaired and all of that shit. I didn't care because I had my Lexus. My, Lexus was sweet, and it had the silky smooth motor. And oh God, I love that car. But you know you reach a point a few years later and you realize that your plan? vehicle is still worth about $40-ish, thousand dollars, maybe not quite that much.

1:28:19 And you got a massive pile of credit card debt from all the time you spent in Mexico this past winter and all these things. Realize I had to sell it. And I was not feeling stoked about that at all. I just like, there is nothing that is going to come close to this. I'm looking at all these like 200,000 mile forerunners for $20,000 and just the used market, or just clapped out Tahoes.

1:28:45 And I'm like, what am I gonna get? So I ended up trading my Lexus for a 2015 F-150 with 120,000 miles on it and a pile of cash to get rid of the credit card debt. And I was not prepared to be stoked about this. I'm just like, yeah, I'm just make him do. Yeah. Just get the best out of this situation. And as I'm driving home yesterday, I go and put my foot in it, and it just makes this after five hours in a goddamn dealership.

1:29:21 I don't know why you have to spend as much time in a dealership as you do to do things. It just they just make you sit there. There's no reason to it. Like, here's my vehicle, there's the new vehicle, we sign the papers, you cut me a check, I go home. Anyway, eventually I'm going home. The light is kind of like falling over the mountains, and it's that time of day, and I stomp on it, and there's about sessions three gears, and just go.

1:29:48 Five-liter V8, Ford Motor Company. 383 horsepower. That's what I'm stoked about right now. It's plasticky and shitty on the Interior, and it's got seats that someone else has been farting in that aren't heated or vented or leather. And and and everything, it but I don't care. Because it makes nice noises and goes when I step on it, and I think I'll be Okay.

1:30:20 You'll be alright.

1:30:21 That's it. That's all I like. I like it. Nice. All right, gentlemen, thank you? Uh for the listeners. Hey, we haven't been doing this, but let me just mention if you're liking what you're hearing and you don't think we're talking about the weather too much, please give us a follow or leave a review or both.

1:30:43 It does help. We're trying to grow a little bit, trying to put a little gas in Mike's new F-150 for a lot of gas. Anyway, if if you don't mind wherever you get your plan? podcasts, let us know. Um, or pop about into the comments uh in the article on the main site where this is posted. Uh, you can also write us at podcast at nsmb.com if you have a comment, a question, something you think we should cover, something you think we're doing a good job at, or a bad job, we'll take all the feedback we can get.

1:31:17 And that's it. That's the news for this week? Thanks very much, everybody. Thank you, AJ. Thank you, Michael. And until next time, catch you on the backside.