QLS Classic: The Family Stand Part 2

What's Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. All right, people. Last week, we re-released part one of the 2020 Family Stand episode. We are back with part two. And this 80-minute half of the conversation, the team Supreme and I dig into the business. Sandra's exit from Atlantic Records and recording for Elektra. The, air quote, Sylvia Roan incident. She talks about the album that never came out, not to mention her working with Prince on Sanctuary, Soul Sanctuary, and Curtis Mayfield's mentorship, Stevie Wonder taking notes, and more Billy Ocean talk. Look, I love this Family Stand episode, and I'm grateful for this episode. It's one of our wildest ever.

Please listen with me. All right. So we were on you. I'm sorry. Before you were a rude interruption. That was a good interruption, though.

I like that. Yeah.

Yeah, so, I mean, she said something that we definitely should acknowledge.

Which is? You know, Jimmy giving her the heads up on a certain someone. Thank you for giving me the heads up on Prince.

Oh.

Oh. Wait a minute, what happened to her solo record in... Which one? 93? There was 93, the Sanctuary album. Yeah, what happened... Oh my God. So wait, you left... You left Well, I'm not saying Marilyn, Bob, and Sylvia, but just to return to them, wasn't your solo project on?

Okay. How much time do we have?

Go look at the time. Are we going to be crying after this story?

Probably.

No, no.

It's actually kind of funny when I look back. It wasn't funny then. So I was, of course, so as a group with Atlantic, They were signed as producers. It was going to be a producer's album, but then we decided to make it just us. So then they had to sign me in an inducement letter, right? So I was signed separately. They were committed to five albums. I was only committed to three albums. And after that third album, we saw that the label wasn't going to give us any real love, right? It was like they were treating us like doo-doo. So we said, look, let's just take you someplace else. Your deal is up. Let's go do basically Fam Sans someplace else, but just under your name, right?

Oh, okay. Because I was free.

I was free.

Right.

And that was fine. And so I remember the meeting with me and our manager, Abby, with Sylvia Rowan.

And he told her. Rowan or Ruin?

Sylvia Ruinthal.

Let's see.

Just let it sit for a second.

I got a rep for Fonte. Nigga. I sound like Foley. That's what Foley says to me all the time.

Nigga.

You know Foley? Yes.

Have you had him here?

You got to have Foley on. Foley's crazy. I love him. The original thing.

He tells me all the time. So we're in the meeting and Abby's explaining to her. So basically we're here because Sandra's deal is up and we just want to let you know that you have first right of refusal. So you could pick her up as a solo artist or she's going someplace else. And she was like, no, that's not true. That's not true.

No, that's not true.

And he said, but it is.

No, that's not true.

That's not true.

But it is.

This went on for like three or four times. She picks up the phone, calls Business Affairs.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Slams the phone down.

Oh, she was mad.

So she was mad as hell. And then she was just like, uh-huh.

Okay.

Okay. She was tight, man.

She was tight.

So we exited the room. We just exited because she was woo.

We left.

And I was fine. This is when she was still at.

Atlantic, right?

Can I ask a question?

Can I ask a question, though? So when you tell a label exec, a label exec, Thank you. I'm black.

Look at he black.

Um, When you tell a label exec, that was scary as fuck, right? It was scary. I'm telling you, this is the best episode ever. When you tell them, look, can you let us go because, you know. You ain't doing nothing for us? Okay, it was a hostile thing?

No, you can't say it like that. It would depend on who you're talking to.

Because I wrote the most humbling letter ever to Jimmy. Jimmy Iovine was crying at the end. No, no.

That's sweet.

I said, sir.

You have all these platinum artists. Like, you won't miss us at all.

Right.

No, but we want. So why the need to hang on to you?

Yeah, it's a whole egg on the face thing for some people. And there's an ego issue with some folks.

So the fear of you having success on another label.

Someplace else, it would be egg on their face.

Yeah. Because I couldn't make it work, but they could. Oh, that's not good.

No, that makes me look like I was the failure and not the artist. So, okay, let me just give them a, let me try to cut to the chase.

No, no, no.

Give us the long version.

Shut up. So, wait.

So, we leave this meeting. It was over.

Okay, I'm free and clear. And she was obviously not going to give me, you know, the first. She wasn't going to try to pick me up herself because she was pissed. And so, we go do our little searching. We're talking to Sony. We're talking to Epic. We're talking, we got like, you know, a little bidding war going on.

I wanted to go with Elektra, the boutique label, because they love black women. They had Anita Baker. They had Tracy Chapman. They had Natalie Cole. They had, they had, it was like, I can't even think of it, but they had like so many, it was thick with just big black women voices.

Bob Krasnow. Bob Krasnow. Krasnow. Oh, he loved black women. He loved black women.

Bob Krasnow, yes. He loved voices, man.

Right.

So he was like, he was like, you know, he wasn't offering the most money.

What?

I don't know where this story's about to go.

I'm already laughing at the punchline. Oh, stop. Okay, good, good, good.

Okay, so you see what's happening?

Oh, I can't wait for this story. You see what's happening? Go ahead.

So Bob Cranston's there.

He's like, dope.

And he's like, I've got like a $ 9, 000 budget, which is great back in the day.

He sent me.

We had finished the album. The album was in the can. Sent me to Jamaica to do the photo shoot. I'm in the limo on the way back from Jamaica. Get a call from Michael Olago, my A & R at the time. First it was Carol Chasman and Michael Olago. He said, did you hear what happened? I said, no, he said Bob Crasnell stepping down. And I was like, oh, damn. Shit, because I love that dude. Oh, you know, but it's cool.

The album's in the can. You know, we just finished the shoot.

Boom, boom, boom.

And he's like. you know who took his place? I'm like, of course I don't even know he stepped down. And he said, he said, Sylvia Roan.

Oh, that's right. Electra. Electra. Oh, God, no.

Oh, Jesus Christ.

Thank you.

Sorry.

I need a little bit more of that one.

I thought you were going to go, dun, dun, dun.

Damn, I feel like by the time she got there, it was only En Vogue left over.

So what was that meeting like? What was that meeting like?

So then I wrote her a letter.

I thought you were going someplace, see?

Yeah, see?

Kill my brother, I'm going to kill you, see? What you did to my brother, I'm.

Going to do to you now, see?

I wrote her a nice letter, sent her a candle.

Sister girl. I was like, girl, hey, you know.

This is time for us to like, women to like, you know, this is a woman thing. I tried my best.

I did.

She would ever bit you with her eyes?

I tried to, y'all, y'all. I let her in a candle. And so I was like, okay, I figured she would just, you know, I said, I'm glad to see you here. Let's sit down. And let's just, you know.

Black women working, girl.

Yes, I said, yes.

Women and sisters are doing it.

Women and sisters.

Yes.

She was like, Yeah, you come on in. Let's sit down and talk.

I was like, okay. Yeah, so go and sit down.

Oh, my God. Her eyes were on fire. So she sat there and she let me talk and we played the music some more because she had already heard the album. She's like, no, no, play it for me. So I played it.

She was milking the shit.

Let me tell you something.

She was milking.

You know her.

Yeah, yeah. Milking it.

Her eyes was just like.

Watching me, right? And while we listen, I'm trying to just be cool. You know, I'm like, you know, I'm trying to be, I'm trying to be all aesthetic. I was like waving incense and shit. I swear to God, I brought the whole shebang with me. And so we listened to the show. She was like, you know, I just don't think this is for us. I just don't hear anything for, this isn't really where I want to go with the label, you know? So she just kind of said, you know, bye. You know, just like, no, we're not going to do this. And I'm like, but the album's kind of already done. She's like, yeah, I'm not going to release it. You know, but am I free?

Are you going to let me go? She was like, well, we'll talk about that later. But for sure, we're not going to do anything with this record. We're not going to be releasing it. She said it like 12 times.

She loved that so much.

It's a remix.

It was like Paul Mooney saying.

Keep his teeth white.

She was like, we're not going to release your album. We're not going to release your album. We're not going to release your album.

God, she referenced the Race album by Paul Mooney. One of my favorite albums.

Of all time.

Yo, man. Wait, wait, wait. Hang on. Ladies and gentlemen, I want to tell you that When the idea of me having my own podcast was introduced, this is my dream. Like, I'm never going to have this high again. Going to be chasing the dragon from here on out. Every story. Yeah, this is my crack hit.

Yeah, Sylvia ain't coming.

I know. I don't know if you'll get Sylvia. No, not the most. Not the most. She'd be a good interviewer. I actually seen her recently.

Oh, yeah?

I see her all the time. I've seen her recently. She comes to, her artists still come to the Tonight Show.

And this is what, and I said this to her, and actually I made this, this is the thing about Sylvia and us and them, really, because as you said when we opened the introduction, we are kind of a, We're a different group of kind of individuals, groups in the context of music industry, whatever. And the thing is, on a deep level, I think she really, really got who we were and us and really dug the music. However, when she had to go out into the world of those R & B promotion departments, they were like, what is this shit you... Ghetto Heaven, but they don't got seven of those or what's this rock shit?

You know, so.

Damn it, Black Radio.

Well, they would have to. Plantation Radio. It means that they would have to use elbow grease. Well, yes. And figure out. They don't actually have to work?

Yeah, they're not.

That's not it. They don't do that at record labels.

I mean, the thing, literally every time, it's funny, I even want to hear these songs today. My little kids here, they hear like En Vogue songs and they sound dope. Before Ghetto Heaven came out, we heard, they showed us she said this, we know we have this other act that's coming out at the.

Same time as you. Oh yeah, I remember.

We was up in our office.

And she played the video and I'm like, oh, who's this group? And then I heard, hold on to your love.

And so the video, I'm like, I was like, uh-oh.

Uh-oh.

We all said uh-oh. We all said uh-oh at the same time.

I heard the song, I'm like, that track is dope and they look hot.

In them black dresses.

Yeah, they put, it seemed like every time we put out a record, In Vogue came out two weeks before.

So In Vogue came out right before- Don't Let Go? Yes. Nigga! Yes. Wow!

It came out right before Get On Heaven. So when Get On Heaven, we had a chance to go number one.

It was like, ah.

And really where, you know, it's kind of like the Faulkner Road where careers divide. But there was a song we had on that album called In Summer, I Fall.

Oh, yeah.

That kind of should have been a number one kind of R & B ballad hit. but it came out two weeks after something else that Invokin put out. And I think Sandra knew somebody at the label. We're going through the whole story. But as I remember correctly, they were like, yeah, you know.

He was fine as far as I remember.

Yeah, yeah.

He would have been fine if he'd got the record to. But anyway.

It did well in his territory.

Yes, it did, Sandra.

I'm sure it did.

I mean, you know.

North Carolina was popping on.

I know. I know. It probably went to number four, just like the size of his personality.

Oh, no.

I know, though, darling. You don't know what I know.

Actually, I saw the videos. But anyway.

Uh-oh.

Uh-oh. The real family. Wow. The real family. Let me just. Yo, did they sign the clearances? This is going on the air. Yeah, it's going. Okay. I'm playing.

It's what I need. It's automatic.

I don't know these guys.

Jeff, what is your sign? Because you deal really well with these two.

Oh, yeah.

Does it really matter?

No.

No, no, he's always like, okay, there they go. He just slides in.

He's like an earth thing or something.

No, he's spicy.

Ah, yeah, but still more spicy.

I love that you guys, at least now, are really putting up the appearance that you love each other. We do. No, I know. You can't fake this chemistry, which is why I'm amazed to see this. So, for this particular situation, like, I don't believe in a true democracy. I believe in the idea of a true democracy. and I've said this on many episodes before, yes, like, I like to think that the 11 of us have say or whatever, like, what do you think? What do you think? What do you think? You know, like, everyone from the leader to the minion, the last member of the group to get at it, but how do you guys decide? Because the thing is, is that you guys are also kind of a dinosaur in terms of the fact that groups were

starting to become extinct by the early 90s. So by the time you guys come along, there's like maybe nine black bands left on a major label, as opposed to 70 or 170 20 years ago. So how do you guys make decisions? How do you guys establish a song? How do you guys... Like, I'm not asking, like, who's the alpha? Is this 33 and a third equally?

We trust and love each other so much and seriously on a deep level that we each have things that we kind of say, kind of take the lead on in a very organic way. I mean, the biggest, Jeff and I almost kind of like, what's it, Elton John and Bernie Tappan.

We've never really had.

One major fight except who should be the, Except Greg Anthony, when he was the point guard of the Knicks.

Yeah, it was a ridiculous fight, man.

Yeah, because.

We know he was the greatest point guard.

See, see, Jeff was delusional about Greg Anthony. Everything over, except for music. No, no, no. I said, Greg Anthony's a great defensive player, but he can't shoot. But anyway, but I digress.

He eventually shot when he got to the Grizzlies.

Yeah, I had a joke, boy, but I'm not going to say it.

Oh, no, let's not.

Yeah, no, I'm not going to say that one. But it had to do with an arrest. But anyway... Dog, man. I got a lot of favorite references. But I like Rick Anthony. He's a great guy. But it was... The jokes. The hits. The jokes.

No, but we respect each other's opinion. And there's like different areas that each of us kind of just like, you know.

In my specific situation, I know that Tariq will probably say, no, it's 51U and 49Me. But in my eyes, I'm like, well, I'll slave over a song all night. But if he can't write to it, then it's not getting on the album. And I know the true answer is, well, you guys should be in the room at the same time. No, no, no, no.

But I kind of like working by myself because I had weird hours and I want to get all my ideas out. Some therapeutic things. So is collaboration just a myth or... No. Is it a frustrating compromise?

Now it's harder than it was when we all, because now he's here.

I'm in the Netherlands and he's in California.

I forgot you moved out.

Why? You now live in the Netherlands?

Now live?

She's been there since 2003, right?

2002. I've known you forever. I know, right?

I mean, yeah, I've been there. I've been there for, I come back and forth so much though. That's why.

That's why your shoes are so dope.

Dumb question. Dumb question. Do you, of course you like it better. I don't know.

Actually, well, yeah. What's expat life like? It's a better country. Better health care for sure. Better health care, better systems.

Is it free?

No, it's not free, but it's good and it's reliable and it's, you know, it's no bullshit.

You fluent in Dutch right now?

Yeah, it's kind of. The whole interview in the native language practice, you're doing this.

How long did it take you to nail the language?

Six months. No.

What? No. Yeah, six months.

No, because, I mean, because of classical training, you know. I learned Aries and Italian, German, Russian, and French. So languages come easily.

I've learned that when you unlock the 16th gene key of your mind of the, 50 of them. What book did you just read? Right? I'm sorry. I live the Gene Keys every day, so it's just that you can... It's teaching you how to retain, how your subconscious can retain information, but your subconscious mind blocks you from taking it.

Everyone in this room has the power to play, like, Rachmaninoff right now if they wanted to. But it's your faith in, oh, I can't learn.

Yeah, you shut your own stuff down.

You shut yourself down.

I believe that.

Right.

No doubt. No doubt. But I'm an American.

So even with all of our terribleness and madness and crazy, I miss America. So I need.

To be here. What do you miss most about?

I think the, well, the small things a lot. The shared history and the things that we can talk about, even like references of, Jokes, if I say, if I reference, oh, my shoe, everybody knows I'm talking about it, auntie falling down the steps.

If I say it over there, they look at me like, sweetie, you know? That's whack, you know what I mean?

So it's like you have to like really, you know, you got to talk like very precise and just direct. They're very blunt and, you know, their jokes are not my jokes and my jokes aren't their jokes and, my history is not their history. So even though you run into black people, it's not the same black people.

I was going to say, do you order your hair products off Amazon?

Girl, I don't do none of that hair shit over there.

I was about to say. So how you get your scalp?

Girl, please.

I order products from here. I come here often enough to take shit back.

You got a lot of shea butter that you just put in the bag.

I see sisters on the street over there. I be like, oh, girl.

Yeah, because black hair in Europe.

Oh, baby.

I'm really thinking about my hair. Never mind.

That's seriously going to be my next hustle. I'm going to open up a hair studio because they need it.

So your girls?

My girls, yeah, their hair is... I get all.

Their products and stuff.

You have daughters?

Yeah, they got that. That other kind of hair.

Oh, they from the, they have, now they're linen.

Okay.

You just need a little bit of water on your brush.

Put a little bit of water on your brush.

A little coconut oil, they fine. They're fine.

I see you, Sandra.

They're fine.

They're all right.

They're good.

They're good. They straight.

They straight.

All right.

Right now, I'm going, wait, wait, wait, wait. We still didn't get to the point of the story.

What was the point of the story?

What does Jimmy Jam warn you about? Oh, my God.

That was 45 minutes ago.

We're a rabbit hole show.

We fall down rabbit holes.

All the time.

No, I remember when.

Prince told Warner Brothers that he had heard my Sanctuary album. I was like, how did he hear my Sanctuary album?

How did he hear your Sanctuary album?

To this day, I don't know how he heard my Sanctuary album.

Prince or Jimmy Jam?

Prince.

Prince. I have my ways. I was waiting for somebody.

To do it.

I was like, how do you.

So she was like, I don't know, but he says he listens to it every morning, and he has to work with you.

I was like, what?

Wow, dope. So before I actually met him, I think it was an ASCAP Awards show or something, and Jim and Jim and Terry Lewis were there.

And I was like, oh my God, yo, guys, guess what? I'm getting ready to work with Prince, man. And they were like.

that.

Joke gets funnier the more you think about our episode.

It was like what are you waiting for when you come over watch your back sis watch your back just watch your back I was like.

Well jeez that sounds very bitter why.

Are they saying that I didn't know okay but I found out didn't I I found out Because, you know, everybody knows Prince.

He was a nice guy with us when he hung out with us.

Hanging out.

Nice.

Yeah, he was cool when he hung out with us. Prince, look, you know, shit, man. I did one interview in the BBC. They asked me to tell the truth and I did. And the Prince Legion came from me.

What's his name?

Wait, who called me?

Wait, who? What's his name? Oh, Kirk? Yeah, Kirk.

Right, that's right.

Did Kirk call you?

Why you put your eyebrow up like that?

It wasn't even Kirk. It was just the legions of Prince Charles. It was insane.

They came for me.

Like the beehive, right?

Yeah, I was like, dude, seriously.

They're the original beehive. Y'all need to slow your roll because fuck you. Y'all need to find another house. First of all.

You ain't even know him.

Okay, fuck you. So, like, you know, I told the truth. You believe what you want to believe, but back to Mama, yeah.

So I'm vaguely aware. So basically over the Soul Sanctuary song that was on Emancipation.

Five songs off that record he took.

Five.

Wait, what else?

There was one that ended up on Shaka's Come to My House album. Spread Your Legs. I'll Never Open My Legs Again.

And then this motherfucker telling me, he's like, yeah, we're going to have to change the title on that. Because that's the one he gave me credit on. He was like, well, that and Sanctuary. I said, why? I said, because, you know, a woman shouldn't be Santa. I'm like, I said, right.

You wrote head.

Right.

But he was a Jehovah's Witness at that point.

So he was, I was so like, I was so like, I'm like, I need 15 year old gold prints.

Right.

I want to work. Yeah. 96 to 2004. Yeah.

That, that, that was that period that I was messing with him. And, you know, he was all in that, that mode. And I was, I remember the very first time I met him, I came to the studio. I had, like, you know, I was just in my crystals, and, you know, I set my ocean. He must have thought that was some juju, you know what I mean? That was all, like, against everything the Witnesses was about, you know?

Wait a minute.

It's the first time you met him. What are you talking about? We met him in, uh.

No, I mean, as far as to work with him.

Working with him. Oh, okay.

But, I mean, he was a big Family Stand fan.

I love, yeah, I was going to say that I, too, used to laugh at all crystal-carrying people. And now you are one. And now I can't live without it. Yeah, I'm sorry. Ba-da-bing, ba-da-boom.

So, you know, I mean.

I see the light now. Yeah.

Five songs.

You know, cut jams, right?

It's just me start using those crystals with deodorant that's usually everywhere.

I don't do that.

Oh, you don't use a crystal stick? I don't do that.

I don't.

Everybody has.

You're not using the secret anymore?

Everybody has tried it.

I just don't.

Look.

Deodorant?

What's that?

Because I've seen, I've smelled the results.

You know the term, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Yeah. It ain't my house no more. Okay.

You need to tell her to get some Toms.

They made like a charcoal jar now that's a little bit stronger and lasts a little longer.

I'm using charcoal toothpaste, charcoal soup. Come on. Come on, man. Sorry. I went out with this girl once. She used to.

Pebble, I told you, like for the deodorant, the pebble. Yeah, I told her she better get a rock or something.

Oh, the pebble wasn't working?

No.

I'm not.

Pebble wasn't working. Oh, hey, hey, hey.

I'm sorry.

Brooklynites won't let me insult them. Yeah, when she's not looking, though, I sneak and get the unscented. Hell yeah.

There you go.

It's a long day, nigga. Hell yeah.

This has really been an eclectic interview.

I was about to say, do you guys feel as though we're respecting your history? I feel like this is such.

Are all interviews like this?

No, this is the best one ever.

Shut up.

As long as it's just happy, I'm happy.

This is the best one ever. Say it again. This is the best one.

Now I'm thinking about questions I didn't ask. which is.

We got time.

How did... No, we'll let you go. We got time. Take your time. Take your time. Hey, Jimmy Jam time. Take your time. We got time.

Now we're going to.

Go for his record. How did the suggestion of Nelly and Jazzy B... Remixing Ghetto Heaven. Merlin Bob.

It has to be Merlin, right?

Merlin Bob.

Yeah. Because Merlin was spending a lot, so he knew these guys.

Yeah, he said Jazzy B, but, you know, and of course it was Nelly Hooper who did the real work.

Well, that's, I mean, that's always the case. Like, there's, we know someone sells the product and someone does the work. Yeah, yeah.

Jimmy, what's the, no, not Jimmy. What's that?

Jelly Bean. Dr. Jelly. Jelly Bean.

Jellybean Benitez?

Jellybean, he had, I mean, a lot of people did stuff for him.

Yeah, you just, you're leasing the name.

He was kind of brilliant, though.

You're leasing the name, Recognizability. That's all good.

And the thing is, the interesting thing about that is, there's a lot of people thought we were from London.

I just had to correct somebody on Facebook yesterday.

I absolutely thought you guys were from London. Yeah, I was like, oh, I love British soul. I'm like. Yeah, here's the thing. We're from Brooklyn.

At the time, looking at the album cover, we didn't look like we were from.

No, y'all definitely looked like you were a whole thing. I thought y'all were part of the Young Disciples. Yeah, right, right.

The whole thing was.

And it wasn't an on-purpose thing. I just think it was just from a headspace. It literally came out in 89, at first the end of 89, 90.

Ghetto Heaven. And it was just.

Not that we were conscious of it, but it was just... We were moving forward, and whatever was happening there, we just knew that.

Yeah, because we were doing some different on the label. I mean, we made a conscious decision when we were doing the video for Ghetto Heaven to have some dark-skinned black women with big butts and locks. That was a conscious decision.

Yes, you did.

Because everybody's walking around with jabby curls, and I mean, we said, no, we want specific things in this video that people need to see.

There's another thing I want to bring up. The amount of underhanded, kind of not subversive, but sneaky snark in the lyrical content of your record. Now you see where it's twisted.

Which album are you talking about?

No, all over. And the thing is, is that did you guys ever worry about Any particular blowback from.

Never gave a shit.

Oh, my God. When we did Moon and Scorpio, that was... We just did not give a fuck after that. Because we weren't even letting the record company hear shit when we were doing it. Because at that point, we was like, okay, y'all ain't promoting us anywhere. We're going to do what we want to do.

I wanted to ask, did you guys even... Were you testing the label? Like, oh, we could just talk shit about whoever... Rob Markman, No, we.

Weren't testing them. We didn't give a fuck.

Rob Markman, I just think that I think we snuck up on them in a way I don't even know if it was conscious. It's hard to know at this point. It started out just to be a producer's album, but we knew we wanted to be a band. And so there was a hint of that on Chain, but by the time, like Jeff said, we got to moving to Scorpio, it was like, this is what it is. And as long as, you know, as long as you really know that you're telling the truth, then people can say, all they can say to you is, why'd you tell that truth?

You know? Because it's true.

And Plantation Radio, like, for example, on that album, that was just, you know, we realized that, you know, You or your band can be dope. This person can be dope. If you're black, you're doing something alternative. You need your Christopher Columbus to discover you. And so you can be on and be put on the scene. These look cool.

So we just, there's a whole lot of facade to that whole thing. As you know, you've lived it. You've been doing it.

Right.

We were talking about Sandra going solo. So I thought it would be a good time to talk about the album that you guys did without her, Connected.

With Jackie. Jackie McGee. I forgot about Jackie.

Jackie McGee, yeah.

Yeah, I understand that didn't exactly work out too well. Musically, it was nice. Yeah, musically, it worked out well.

Sometimes when I see songs on YouTube, it'd be like, they didn't even like the singer.

That wasn't true. We love Jackie. We actually had a really good relationship with her.

I think the only issue was maybe her concept of the rock thing or whatever that in her mind was at the time. Maybe it wasn't so much as naturally internalized as it was with Sandra. It was kind of put together in a way that was kind of quick, so maybe there wasn't enough time to build so much the natural rapport.

I was going to say that what I'm witnessing here is like some Harlem Gluchatas, look, mano, hands. Chemistry here that. You would have to actually build. Did you guys know Jackie from before? No, yeah, we didn't.

Someone said, hey, make it last forever, girl.

I didn't even realize that she had done that. I mean, she kind of kept talking about it a lot.

I love you, man.

I swear to God.

You and D'Angelo got to meet each other.

Yeah, because I was totally oblivious to what she had done before. Yeah, right.

So you missed her album on MCA.

So it was just a matter of, it was maybe a musical chemistry thing.

Wait, did I miss another classic? I'm just sorry.

Skeezer was the wrong record for Jackie McGee.

Skeezer.

Oh my God.

Skeezer.

What were they thinking?

You know what? Oh yeah, right, right, right. I now know I want, All right, you know, like, it's my dream for you and Fonte to at least have, like, a minute review thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I want Sandra to join this because her eye, the level of her eyes, Oren. The shaking of the head and the eyes. Okay. Okay.

All I got to do is say up.

I see. But all right, back to Jackie. Yeah. The connected album. Yeah.

So it was just really that, but we didn't have any really bad time energy or.

Anything like that.

Not at all. Not at all.

So we were always cool. Not at all.

I mean, I would just sum it up as like we just said, the natural rapport and like Amir said, it was just like, this is like, it's like basketball. You play with certain players, it's just a natural more fit. So it was more of that, but there was.

No- Okay.

Because you know we would say it. We've said everything else. So at this point, we would say it.

Oh, Jackie, she was on some bullshit. No, we love Jackie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got another record I want to ask about. Goodfellas, Sugar Honey Iced Tea. Come on. I love that damn song. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Wait a minute.

Didn't Lenny Kravitz kind of come out with a record like after that?

I'm not sure if it was after.

It was Lenny Kravitz. I remember because I was saying, wow, that sounds like Sugar Honey Iced Tea.

But was that first? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Yeah. What was the record? It ain't over till it's over.

It's like kind of the same.

Yeah, but Sugar Honey Iced Tea was a few years after that. Yeah, but.

So did we steal from him or did he steal from us?

Neither one. But then he took them from Earth, Wind & Fire, so.

No, we both stole from Al Green, so that's what that was about, really.

It was more like. It was.

Because there's certain periods that I think.

I know at least.

What year was that?

That was. It was like 96, 97 I think. 96, 97.

Kind of flash, kind of flashback to like, there's a certain period where, I'm sure this happens to, you know, to him is that, you know, you lock into a certain artist that you, you always check out, you checked out like, for a certain period of time, I always grew up in the love of like Stevie and Hendrix and a whole lot of different people and the Beatles.

I have to bring that up because a lot of that stuff influences a lot of our stuff too. But, but it was, and even though I was into him in the 70s, I kind of rediscovered him, and that was Curtis Mayfield. There was a period of time where I was like, oh, and I just heard some stuff. So there was things in there. There's a song that we did on Tamiya called Poetry, which they should have put out as a single, but a poetry that was totally coming from Curtis Mayfield kind of standpoint, like the beginning of it is. It's like the grass that grows between the cracks of ghetto streets.

Relentless and spotless. That was another Joshua Nile record, right? Right. That was another Joshua Nile. That motherfucker, that hip-hop kid from Brooklyn. Yeah. How old is Joshua Nile now? How old is he? He's a retirement home. He's about 23. He's 23. He's 23. He's 23.

He's born in Leap Year, February 23.

Yeah, exactly.

So he's about like 24.

Wait, now, I've read several interviews or comments about you working with Curtis. and how your experience was, I read it, and it was very positive. Another fellow Dallas artist that we mentioned before, El Head Rappo.

El Head Rappo.

The thing was, and this is early in our relationship, so it was like the first year I knew her, and man... She gave me the complete opposite of what it was like to work with Curtis. Okay.

When did she actually work with him?

She did... Curtis produced a song for her on Eve's Bayou soundtrack. What year is that? Yeah, I know that. 1997. I think this is like... This might be the last nine months of his life. It was shortly before... New World Order was quasi-apostle... Well, that's the last album he recorded. Shut up, Steve. Why are you judging me? I'm just here to monitor shit for white people and report back to them. I said I was going to chop up the word posthumous.

That's a hard word, though.

Posthumous. Posthumous.

He's the guy that, once a president gets into office, he's the one that writes that binder and puts it on the, When the president walked into the office and said, okay, this is how shit's really going to go. You had your policies, but this is how shit's really going to go.

That is Steve.

Oh, good, good, good.

Now we know. Anyway, yeah, but I was like, you know, I was like, yo, you're Curtis Mayfield. What was that like? What was it like? What was it like? And he was like, he made me cry, Amir. And take after take after take after take And just beat down on confidence and, you know. He wasn't a fan. You sing horrible.

Who?

Yeah, like, so. Said he wasn't a fan. What was it like working with him? Was it hard working?

Not at all.

Was he a taskmaster? Oh, man.

Redo the lines.

She is saying it.

No, dude was like, dude, I mean.

Hey, we worked with artists like that.

No, I mean, but Curtis, Curtis. The thing was with the duet, it's a duet on New World Order, right? Mm-hmm. And called I Believe in You. They basically, they wanted him to have a duet with somebody from old school and somebody from new school. So the old school, he had like Mavis and Aretha. He did duets with them on the record, features with them on the record. And so they gave him three choices for the new school.

Mm-hmm.

So Curtis chose me out of Erica and Angie. The dude, I mean, I literally did like two takes, you know, it.

Was over. He was like done.

And then he was like, and after that, you know, we were, we were close up until almost, you know, the time he couldn't talk anymore, you know? He would call me. I would call him. He would support me. He would, like, build me up. He would, you know, he was, like, the sweetest motherfucker. I mean, this guy.

Curtis didn't believe in bodyism.

You know, he just wasn't a fan. Because the dude was real, man. He was so beautiful. He was a beautiful cat, man. So, I don't know what she talking about.

No, no. I'm glad you restored my faith in him.

Yes, he was a beautiful dude. I don't know what she was going through.

What was that?

He said Erica was saying, you know, Curtis wasn't. Yeah, but he didn't give me no shade whatsoever. Jeff just got it.

Here.

What's going on?

I love you. I never want this night to end, man. Okay, let me tell you a story.

And then I'll tell you the Rick James story. Now wait. Oh, oh.

We went from Rick James to Prince.

I'm ready.

Give me a Rick James. Just give me a random story. Rick James. It's popcorn time with Chris Love.

Alphabetical order.

Bitch got stories.

I got stories, y'all.

Y'all are so family.

I started writing a book and I was like, I can't write this book.

I be spilling too much tea, man.

I can't spill this much tea.

Yeah, don't drink no wine.

I can't drink wine and it's over. Everybody's tea's getting spilled.

Damn, this should be the Christmas episode. Do y'all drink? What? Oh, we should invite y'all back for.

Our holiday episode. We get fucked up and.

Then we just, yes.

And then you live in the Netherlands.

So I do. I mean, That was what I was asking.

I was saying, y'all from the Netherlands, so I assumed that we can do what we do here.

Oh, honey, honey, honey. You must have, you have to do what you do.

Okay.

I'm not the greenhouse and the couple cafes.

Come on, the bulldog.

I'm scared. She been the damn queen.

I'm just into CBD oils now.

That's all. That's all.

Just oils for my muscles. They're just for my muscles nowadays.

I wish Fonte was here. Okay, sorry, sorry.

What was I talking about?

Rick James.

No, this is a very early career story.

Very early.

This is before the solo career. This is when I was singing background with Chaka for years.

Oh, I got a Chaka cat.

No, no.

Oh, we don't do that. No.

That's my boo-boo.

Don't fuck with Chaka.

That's my boo-boo.

I love Chaka.

When I was, you know, I used to live with Chaka, you know.

In Germany? No, no, no. In New York, uptown.

Upper West Side. So we'd hang out time and, you know, do what we do.

Mm-hmm.

And, uh, We went to Buffalo to hang out with Rick.

We?

You in shock?

Me in shock.

Oh my God. I don't think I like the story going. I'm going to need a lawyer for this. I'm going to need a lawyer for this story. Is Rod Jeremy coming to the story?

Am I going to need a lawyer for this? Ladies and gentlemen, do you know the visual of Eddie Murphy in Boomerang holding the sheet over his leg?

Is that you right now?

Is that you? Yeah. Okay.

Well, you can always edit.

I know that's right. So what Rick do?

Go ahead.

You had went to Rick's house and then what happened?

So we had went to Rick's house. Okay. And we was like getting high.

All right. So we need some music.

So Rick had like a bevy of babes, like, you know, scantily clad.

All over the house.

Just standing there.

And you know, and it was just really all over.

In Buffalo?

In Buffalo. I mean, it was just, who are these bitches? I was young to hear these bitches. Who are these bitches? I was like, what are they doing here? I was like 19. I mean, it was ridiculous. And I was just in this house and going, Shock was just taking me around everywhere. I was a girl, right? So I guess Rick was sick of all the girls trying to get hits from him. So he took me and Shock in the bathroom, right? So we were in Rick's bedroom in the bathroom.

Here we go. I'm ready. I'm prepared. This is like street songs throwing down era, Rick.

What year is this?

19? All right. So she did that song. Chaka did that song with Rick in 82. Slow Dancing. Slow Dancing.

83.

Yes. Thank you.

That's the year it was.

83.

It was 83. Did she go up there to at least work on Slow Dancing?

No, sir.

You were trying to help.

Your studio was up there? No, no.

We went up there because there was free drugs.

Listen.

Listen to what she's saying.

That goes far. That was the joint.

You know how much free drugs he had?

He was Rick James, damn it. Rick James, bitch. You know how much free drugs he had, son? Free drugs. Plenty. I saw a tape from the tour bus and saw what the cops were bringing stuff over.

Come on.

Y'all know Unsung gonna come knocking after this.

They gonna be like... Don't get me started on Unsung. Okay.

They gonna be like, bitch, what was you saying?

I was like, come.

On, I just told one story.

So I might call her after this.

Shaka's been on the show. Yeah, Shaka's been here. She's been here. So shit, she might hear about it.

I'll call her and be like, listen, I told her the Rick James story. I'll just give her a heads up.

Bitch, what's wrong with you?

Why you tell her the Rick James story?

So Rick brought us in the bathroom, in his bedroom's bathroom. You know, it was beautiful. Big mirror, running around.

The bed was black lacquer. Yeah.

Black marble.

Actually, it was.

It was black like marble and white tiles. So he had all the stuff laid out on the counter between the sinks. And I was in the middle.

And Rick's there. And they were preparing all the things. And they were passing back and forth.

Y'all don't need to see her hands right now.

Y'all didn't see what was going on. I'm just visualizing what was going on. And so as they're passing the thing we're doing, so Rick keeps like, Rick, he keeps, like, getting closer and closer, like, from his mouth to, you know, my mouth.

He just keeps getting closer.

And so, I'm like, you know, I take the hit.

All right, fine.

But then it was like, so, but I'm looking in the mirror, and I'm seeing Yvette, like, you know, her eyes getting, like, narrow. So, and I'm like, oh, this is getting awkward, right?

So.

At one point, she just basically says, you know what? This my bitch.

Oh, my God.

I thought, wait, hold on. Because I was going.

Wait, hold on.

I need to, hold on.

Because I was thinking that, oh, but you, she meant, oh.

And then get to that.

You know what?

She's like, this my bitch. She's like, well, she in my house. She my bitch.

I was like, whoa, wait a minute.

First of all, I ain't nobody's bitch.

Okay?

And then the fight broke down.

Jimmy?

Please tell Jimmy.

Jimmy? I'm sorry, dog. You're not even in the top ten anymore.

And he ain't never coming home. I'm sorry, Jimmy.

I love you, man. You'll be my top 25. Top 25. Okay. Sandra just took your number one solo spot right now.

I'm sorry.

Okay. Just letting you know. I'm still the number one male.

Yes. Yes. Hey, we got a song about that, too.

On our next album.

I got to go. Bye.

We got a song about that on our next album, too.

Can I join the family, Stan? Yes.

Sure.

Absolutely. And I thought Johnny Gill gave it up. Jesus Christ. I started on Johnny Gill. Oh, no. Oh, no. We can't burn. Like, look. We are real.

Please save us.

Save us. I am only here to monitor shit for white people. That's it. That's your job, right? That's it, Steve. Thanks, Steve. Brilliant. Literally, that's all. Okay, well, let's bring some white people into the story. Okay. Daryl Hall. Boom, boom, there you go. Daryl Hall.

Daryl Hall is great. I mean, you know, this is going to be a boring story because it's a nice story.

We just got to balance it.

Yeah, we got to have some balance. To grow up and hear somebody used to hear when you're in high school and stuff and then work with him. I mean, you realize he was just an excellent, great songwriter, special voice. The thing about singing, the main thing that makes any artist or singer great is just their tone, their special tone.

There might be people who can sing around this person or that person, but they have that special quality.

Yeah, yeah.

And he had a very special quality to his voice. He definitely does.

That's Daryl Hall, just a great singer. It was really kind of boring and nice. No cocaine, bed, threesomes, or animals. No, that was like a clean shower.

Yeah, animals. I loved I'm in a Philly mood.

Oh, yeah.

Good song.

In fact, that's one of the songs that.

Randomly pops in my head. I might be just walking down the street, and I'll just hear, oh, in my head. I'm a Philadelphian. They played that a lot. That replaced the Philadelphia Get to Know Us dance.

I was about to say the double-dutch bus.

Don't get me wrong.

No, the Patti LaBelle's theme. Philly move was like our.

They're good.

They tried to make that the... The anthem of Philly? Yeah. There is a question I have. All right. Because, of course, I cheated. And, well, I know about the song. that you did for Ronnie Drayton's son. Oh, yeah. Story. And being as though Ronnie just recently passed away, do you have any, like, I know that when he passed away, like, a lot of the music, New York music community, like, felt that deep in their souls. Like, did you guys work with him at all or, like, have any relationship with 24-7 Spotify? or any of those no.

He was our he was our guitar player he was our guy that I didn't know he played on he did the whole Bonin Scorpio record yeah he did the solo on Education of Jamie yeah yeah that's him so he I'm.

Gonna describe what cause the thing I've heard so many in passing I'm at He's come to the show a few times to visit, whatever, and it's always like, hey, what's up? How you doing? But I never really got to know him as a person or that sort of thing. And I know that was a hurt piece for New York City. He was in our band.

Because I knew Ronnie Drayton from back in the day when, you know, Mick Murphy and our friend Lala. You know Lala? LaFarra's Cope? She was a writer.

Lala that worked with Full Force as well, right? No, no, no, not that. She wrote You Good. Yeah, she wrote You Good. Yeah, that Lala. She worked with Full Force as well.

Yeah, we all came up together. So me and Ronnie, we knew each other from back then. Mike Murphy with the system. Mike Murphy got me my first electric guitar. Yeah, he got me the white one that I took on our first tour.

Oh, yeah. Wait, can I ask a question? All right. Have you worked with the system at all, Mike Murphy? A little bit. Yeah. I know I'm going to get a no, but I have to ask this question. That's not your saxophone on Soul Glow, is it? On what? On Coming to America. Coming to America's Soul Glow. No, no, no. Okay.

I don't think so.

No, because that's the system. You know something?

I did so many sax solos, and I.

Look at some. No, no. Soul Glow is- I don't even remember.

It might be.

I don't know. Mike Murphy. Oh, he's singing? Yes. I didn't know that. Yes, that's him singing.

Those are some good publishing checks for you not to know that.

You know, I just want a quick thing about Mike Murphy. Mike Murphy is, I just wanted to say this, and we worked a little bit, but he's one of the two most underrated singers. To me, Mike Murphy sings his ass off. And, you know, he's a friend, you know, but he's so dope.

I mean, he's. I mean, he's his singer. He's just a great, great singer. Bernard Fowler, too.

They all came up, all them guys, you know, in the same crew. Because they're part of that whole Jamaica funk.

Speaking of Ronnie Drayton, Bernard sang at the funeral.

Hey, Bernard Fowler.

You know Bernard Fowler? I sang at the funeral.

You know Bernard Fowler? He sings background with the Rolling Stones.

Yes, yes.

Okay.

Yeah, he sang at Ronnie's service, as did I, and Jeff played. Matter of fact, what's-her-name just passed, too?

What?

Tony. Tony Smith.

Yeah, two funerals. Went to one funeral, went to the next. It was like Jamaica Queens.

Well, besides singing and Funkin' for Jamaica, what else did she.

She did a solo record that didn't do that great because people... If you heard Funkin' for Jamaica... And the next one she did with Tyron Brand.

Everybody did. I was eight years old when it came out. Everybody did.

Shaka was like, is that me? Seriously, she was like, because she forgot she did. So she was like.

Wait, my funniest Shaka story was when she was on the show and I was trying to ask her about Penny Fort singing her ad-libs in Snaps the Power and she tells me the story that it was Shaka that was actually supposed to sing Yeah, so they- The power, and she was just like- Let me try to do it. I can't today, girl. Take my gig for me.

Yeah.

Oh. Yeah. That's word. That's word.

That's- She taught us about her squad, because Besta was in there. It was like a few people that was in her squad, just in case she didn't feel like doing some records.

Yo, can I tell you, do you know the true story behind, since you already brought up her name, do you know the true story behind Congratulations- Did we ever reveal this? What do you mean? Do you know the story behind it? I don't know what you mean. Do you know who that song's dedicated to? Allegedly. Nah.

Wait, give it.

Ooh, give it. Wait, tell me. Didn't they verify it when they came on the show?

Oh, I feel like we had this conversation. We've had too many conversations.

On the show. Didn't they verify it? I don't remember.

Wait, who is it? If you say it, I know.

I could do it.

Who is it? You ready? Yeah.

Bruce Willis?

No, we never talked about that.

Why?

No, no, no. No, no, no.

So check it. He got married to Demi Moore.

So check it.

It was about the marriage. They were congratulating.

She was congratulating. No, but I see the other women. Wait a minute.

Bruce Willis.

You see what I'm saying?

Here's the situation. Come on. I hope she make you happy. Listen, I'm going to make it make sense. I'm going to make it make sense in two minutes. I'm going to make it make sense.

All right, all right, all right.

I dare you.

Okay. Now, here's the deal. Don Johnson and Bruce Willis. rolling tight in Hollywood, and they had a specific preference of the type of women that they liked to get with, of the darker hue. Now, if you remember in that, The Return of Bruno was the name of his first album. It was his Motown record, yeah. Yeah, he's on Motown.

And the first single was a duet, Respect Yourself with the Pointer Sisters. If you remember him and June singing a duet together. Now, Anita... Well, not Anita. Bonnie kind of revealed this on the Pointer Sisters episode. Oh, that's right. That the reason how that duet came to be is because they was messing with each other.

And....

Like, Vesta was rolling tight with the Pointer Sisters kind of as their background singer slash friend or whatever. And so... kind of, it's like a double date situation. Like, Don Johnson, Bruce Willis, and Vesta got with Bruce. I think Vesta was, Bruce was first messing with... That's the most gossiping we've ever done on this show. At the same damn time.

No, that George Johnson interview is pretty gossipy.

Oh, you better listen, son. Oh, she better listen. In your face.

That's one of my favorite episodes, too.

Listen.

And so... Long story short, like, you know, they had a thing going. Maybe he was on the low or whatever. Right? He was on the low. Lucky motherfucker.

She was cautious.

And then, you know, then he. Vesta. Vesta and Bruce Willis. And, yeah, it's well known. I hope she make you.

Happy because you need to. I'm trying to sacrifice.

It's kind of well known in circles that, congratulations, the song is about Bruce Willis.

I wonder if Demi know that. She can't sing.

Who, Demi Moore?

I doubt Demi even care at this point. Who? She's like, I was married to who? I don't know. Oh, right, right, right. I remember her.

Who's that guy?

Wait, did I just kill the show? No, no, no, no.

That was an interesting rabbit hole, but somebody wanted to know, and I don't know.

I'm sorry. Well, wait, you mentioned Bess's name, and I had to get that out. I felt like I had to add something to the teapot. You ain't topping Sandra, but that was a nice try. I was taking and not giving, so....

You know, Can't Next, right?

Yeah, yeah. Did the Tana Gardner.

Tana Gardner. I played on all that stuff. Because those guys were my boys. So, you know.

Really? Yeah. Where was that studio recorded at?

Oh, my God. Where was that studio? I can't even remember. Because we did Funky Sensation there, which to me is one of the funkiest songs ever.

You're on Funky Sensation?

Yeah.

All that stuff. What are you playing on that? Playing horn. Okay.

I'm playing horn. I actually did a solo on there that they didn't use, but I played horn in the horn section because me, Raymond Reed, Tyrone Cox, and my cousin L.A. Blacksmith, we were part of the horn section. And we used to do horns for them all the time.

Who's the rhythm section of it? Oh. And this is the same people that did Heartbeat as well? Or at least No Frills?

He was using a bunch of different people at the time. I can't remember exactly the whole rhythm section, but I played guitar and some of that stuff too. Because they were kind of utilizing me to play a lot of instruments.

Because you can't.

Yeah, my friend Burt Reid and Raymond Reid, who were in Crown Heights Affair.

Yes.

Yeah, those are my guys. And I just remember going in the studio with them. I was playing drums, guitar, bass, keyboard.

We're doing a cover of Far Out, by the way, on our next album.

Yeah, yeah.

Far Out is one of my favorites. favorite songs of all time. I remember that video you posted on Instagram like five years ago, the little clip, and then we haven't heard a bit of it since. Hey, man, because the hits keep on coming. This has been taking forever for y'all to finish that damn album. No, it's just, you know, better songs keep coming.

That's a good answer, Amir. The hits keep on coming.

Here's another tidbit. Did you know Ajax, the trumpet player that played in Crown Heights?

I don't know of him.

Well, you know, he was the trumpet player. He's the one that actually got me, introduced me to Keith Diamond and got me on the Billy Ocean record because we came up together and Billy was hanging with him and he said he needed, he was looking for a sax player to play on the new Billy Ocean record because he was like working for Jive Records and Ajax said, oh I know this guy I play with and we grew up together, Jeff, he's a bad dude and that's how I got that gig.

Just real quick since you mentioned Billy Ocean. Have you ever run into Danny DeVito?

No.

Oh, the video! I ask because.

Because Jeff also played the solo on Dory Oceans, When the Going Gets Tough.

And in the video, Danny DeVito does the sax solo.

Yeah, I did the.

Sax solo on all the songs that was a hit. I did the sax solo on all of those. When the Going Gets Tough. What was the other one?

Get Out of My Dreams.

Which Pete loved. It was Pete's favorite.

Get in the backseat, baby.

It was?

I know Pete hated that song. That's you.

Who, me?

Yeah, Pete said that's the stupidest song ever.

Who, me?

That's you.

Hey, you. Yeah, that was in retrospect, but it hit.

It was a hit.

I mean, let's talk about some more songs that you've been on that people know and probably didn't know that you were there.

Like Debbie Gibson's Only In My Dreams. Yeah, yeah. Played. Foolish Beat. Did I already do this confession that I wish that I was Debbie Gibson's woman? What? No.

Her drummer?

Really? Yo, Sandra just hit me with the Nick, I Will Disown You.

You ain't like that song? That was the jam.

Yo, Sandra, she was asleep for the last 25 minutes. She woke up like, what did you say?

Like he said, Tiffany.

Look, I was 14 at the time, and she was 15 at the time. I was like, oh, someone my age making music. And she was producing her own stuff, allegedly. Yeah. Shout out to Debbie Gibson.

Did you know Arthur Baker?

Yes. I did.

That's how I met, because Living Color are my guys, too. Vernon Reed. Vernon used to come to my house every day to do demos, because he lived down the street from me.

You guys did Corey's solo record, too, on the face. You guys did Corey's solo record on the face, too.

Yeah, we produced Corey's record.

So you're honorary Black Rock? Oh, yeah.

We are Black Rock Coalition people.

Oh, yeah. Okay, can you explain to me what... I knew the myth of it. I saw the logo everywhere. Like, was it meetings every Tuesday? Was it donuts and ice cream?

We never went to any.

We never went to the meetings.

I met many musician affiliates. Like, yeah, I'm a BRC member. Yeah, it's like this. I went to a few of the early meetings.

It's like Greg, that was Greg Tate, Vernon Reed.

And Condemason. They started it. They started it. But, you know, I mean, the whole, because black rock is such a small microcosm of, you know, Yeah, so all these bands, we work and support each other. And back certainly in the 90s when it was really thick, right?

When you say support each other, that to me sounds like a nightmare of a guest list.

Yo, we've got 50, 60 people on a guest list.

I know. It was insane. And club owners weren't having that in New York.

No, so we tell people now, there's no guest list, don't even think about it.

Oh, wow.

Because otherwise, everybody's family. So you can't have all your extended family filling up the being the bodies in the paying seats.

So was it just an idea of myth or folklore that 14-year-old me ran away with? Like, one day I'm going to get in the BRC.

No, because, I mean, well, basically you're just sending an email and sending your music and saying, and if it was actually black rock, You could have just been an official paying dues member.

Oh, you had to pay dues to get inside it? Right, but then you just kind of got in it.

But you did then benefit from being abused at Black Rock Coalition logo and get the Black Rock Coalition support behind your gigs. And it was a thing. It was definitely, and it still is a real thing. Black Rock Coalition is producing our shows that we're doing. you know, coming up. So, I mean, it is a very- There's.

Still a thing today. Oh, no doubt. Oh, absolutely. I gotta admit, like, when I first heard of it, and it was like, oh, you gotta send your dues in and all that stuff, I thought it was like the Ovaltine, Orphan.

Annie, the Coder Ring thing.

Yo, the thing, they produced some cool shit. I mean, this did this, we were part of, it was called The History of Our Future, and it was at the Met.

At the Met.

In September.

It was crazy.

It was packed, you know what I mean? It was like, So... An hour version of.

It was like a couple hours from like, you know.

Was Maggie Breen covered?

They didn't even get to that.

No.

It was.

I don't know how he was going to try to do all this.

In a hundred.

What was.

It supposed to be?

An hour and 40 minutes?

Shit, we almost didn't get to play.

Yo, Toshi made sure we got to play.

She was our hero that night.

It went from like Ma Rainey... Well, actually it started with a drum circle and then... like slaves, early slaves.

How long the show was at? Y'all went through the history of music? History, yeah. From Africa. From the drums of Ma Rainey to trap music.

We didn't quite make it to trap. We actually stopped at Family Stand and Living Color.

That was the end.

Of the show.

And that's the future.

That was the future.

Is Corey still climbing the walls? We did a show with him once. Climbed the scaffold. She ducked.

Duck when you're on stage with him.

He's awesome, yeah.

Duck when you're on stage with him.

I don't know if he's.

Still climbing scaffolding. Okay, but.

Okay.

He's going to do it on our next album with Toundra.

When can we expect that next album?

It'll be out by the summer, I'm pretty sure. Well, let me not say that. Let me say end of this year.

You'll sound like The Roots. Yeah, I'll say. 20 years later. Chinese Democracy, part two. Part two. No, you mean the follow-up to Voodoo, part two. I got a strange phone call the other night. Don't do that.

Don't do that. Don't even start that kind of conversation.

Why?

Because someone's listening to this podcast? It's going to take another 40 minutes.

Don't get us excited. Don't get people excited.

I don't want this night to ever end. Just get.

We didn't even really scratch the surface. We didn't even dip the tip. Wait, wait, wait.

What you talking about over there?

We'll just go one at a time and then we got to wrap this episode up. This is officially a double episode. You're evil. You have a specific question? Well, I was going to say Peter. Any last words for this episode? Yeah, nothing but life.

This has been a really pleasure and joy to sit down and talk with you guys. And we are doing a new album. And it started out with that gig to BRC last September. at the Met, and ended up like, oh, well, maybe we should do a couple of songs, and maybe we'll just do an EP. Now it's turned into Songs in the Key of Life times four.

And now Songs in the Key in the Afterlife.

But we're working on it now, and it's just cool and special stuff. But it really was out of more of an act of love than necessarily, you know, we're putting the band back together, and we're going to get our wheelchairs out, and we're going to show these young boys how to be funky.

I see no wheelchairs or tennis ball walkers. I see none of that in your future. You guys seem just as healthier than me right now.

And you fly as fuck. I said that when I walked in. I was like, are y'all going to wear a shoot, a photo shoot or something?

We've seen y'all. That's good enough.

The hat.

I mean, everybody got something going on.

It's special.

I just wanted to say that.

Thank you. V. Jeffers.

Like Pete said, we really appreciate the love. And this is our first interview since we kind of, got back, and as far as I'm concerned, it's the best interview as far as I can remember that we've done. And I just love it. I'm just having a ball tonight. I don't really want it to end, but, you know.

Me neither.

We ain't got no liquor, though.

Oh, we gotta go.

Oh, well, it was nice being here. We really appreciate this. I mean, listen, I mean, they kind of covered territory. He talked about the album.

Yes.

And he talked about the vibe and what we're doing and where we come from. And it's been a blast mixing it up with y'all. Y'all are a regular riot, man. So it's like, you know, to be able to usually get folks to just ask you just questions about, so what does God of Heaven mean? What does that mean? And that's pretty much the crux of the interview. This was like just a deep dive into all sorts of the cracks and crevices.

We are music dweebs. We are music dweebs. This is amazing. It's our commercial deal right here. So are we. You know what I mean?

We're like total music heads. So, I mean, in music business.

You know.

And so you mix the experiences together. With the nerdism, this is what we got right now. This is a beautiful thing, man.

I appreciate y'all. We thank you.

We thank you.

Wait, I can't let go. Can you just give us one more story?

I thought we was going back to the piano.

About who?

Well, you know she... Pick somebody.

We were on the road one time and we were... I said we were out with Chili Peppers.

The Chili Peppers. I got it.

I got it.

I got it. I got it.

I got it.

I want you three to collectively decide. Uh-oh.

Uh-oh.

All right.

I'm going to start with the bright spot. Okay. What artist can you collectively agree was a joy to experience working with? Either riding with them or... That's easy.

That's easy for me.

Oh, you mean together?

Or.

I mean... Okay, we'll do three. Give us three, but one each.

Well, you said Stevie, so... All y'all said Stevie.

Yeah, I mean, yeah. It's got to be this.

But, no, okay, yes. With Family Stand, Stevie, for sure, because I got to give him a note and he took it, which is like, ah! I told Stevie we wanted something to do and he did it.

So... Amazing.

He asked me to do something over and I said, you said, is that all right?

Right?

It's like, he was so humble and beautiful.

No, do it again. And it was dope too.

I was like, I was tongue-tied like, this is the one that I loved as a kid.

This is the.

One that I loved.

What year was this? 91. Oh, man.

We were working on Paul Abdul's record.

Yeah, he did the solo on Where You Marry Me. Right. So, I mean, it's just. Speaking of Rick James, there's a Larry story. Do you know about... Someone did an interview... Either it's Roy Ayers or Steve Ferron, where Mr. Policeman, the last song that ends Sidewinder Street songs, how Rick was just abusive to Stevie. Like, motherfucker, play that shit like I'm... Rick James? Yeah. Wow. It's in Wax Poetics, that much I know. Wow. Because I never paid attention to Policeman.

You must have been fucked up. Wow.

Someone has had a hilarious... I think Roy Ayers tells the story because- He was serious too? Roy Ayers came in to do his solo at the end of Fire and Desire and tells the story of coming in at the tail end of the studio while Stevie was trying to nail his harmonica solo for Mr. Policeman. And he was- And how Rick was just berating him like, horrible, do it again. And Roy was wondering like, Wait, is he going to be this way to me too with my solo?

Like that sort of thing. Glad to hear that.

You know the song you're on of mine, Dizzy?

Yes.

That's like so many people's favorite freaking song of mine.

Oh, yeah. Seriously. Yeah.

Seriously.

Just, you take that.

You take that. You take that. You take that. You take that.

You take that in Electric Lady? Electric Lady. Yeah, yeah. Yes.

With Mark Batson on keys and Roy Ayers, Donald Byrd.

We record our connected album in Electric Lady.

Thank you for putting... I mean, at the time, wasn't it... The track was more bare. I didn't realize that Byrd.

Yeah, Byrd and Roy. Yeah, yeah. But I will tell you one more funny story.

Mm-hmm.

This is my last funny story for this evening.

We can tell by your voice.

Yes, this is my end of the evening voice. So when I was on tour at Roywood in Africa, and we had to, you know, this is early, this is before Shaka, so we're talking early 80s. Gosh, I'm aging myself. But so we, you know, I have those little portable cameras that you, you know, that you can, you take the whole camera and you turn it in and give you a picture or something. So we've been at the beach all day, and so we came back to the hotel, and I come in my room, and I'm rinsed off, got my robe on. I'm like, okay, who's coming to this hour? And I open the door, and it's Roy.

He said, you still got your camera?

I'm like, yeah.

He said, go get your camera, get your camera. Okay, so I go get my camera, give it to him. Roy opens his trunks, snaps a picture. of his thang, hands it back to me, and runs down.

That sounds just like him.

That's the story I wanted in the beginning.

Lord have mercy. Ladies and gentlemen. Roy Ayers' member.

The poo-poo la-la.

Poo-poo la-la.

Oh, I hated singing that song.

Did you watch the show?

I hated singing that song.

Oh, you just brought that up randomly?

Yeah, because Roy Ayers, he has a poo-poo la-la song. He tells the story. We sitting on the grass.

And we had to walk the whole audience.

Does any of this sound familiar to you? Does it sound familiar to you? Yeah. Oh. No, we literally... All right, we have a segment on The Tonight Show where we talk about songs that are funny, like Do Not Play. We made fun of Poo Poo La La this week. Oh, really? Oh, my God. It's rare that we make fun of an established artist with a song. But, yeah, we had a ball.

Has it aired yet?

Yes. Oh, God, I got to see that. And half of the internet's like, why y'all shitting on Poo Poo Lala?

Because that song was... I was like, it's Poo Poo Lala.

I love that song.

I love when he does it, though, every time.

God, I love that song. All right, now, wait, the antidote.

Yes.

And you don't have to give the story. Who would you not like to work with ever again? Damn, now I got to end it on something more positive. I can't end it.

I can't believe you did that.

Wait, why are you looking at him? I don't even.

I can't think.

Who was a difficult person to... What job was hard to... Pete can answer that. Was it Desiree? No, Desiree was great. No, she was good.

She was good.

Like, I know what you're doing?

She was good.

Pete thought I was.

Well.

Oh, oh, oh.

It wasn't nothing like that.

Oh, well.

I just thought of somebody. But anyway... Oh, okay.

Let me.

Oh, damn.

I was about to say. What are you going to say?

I know who you're talking about.

Oh, are we? Okay.

I know who you're talking about, but I refuse to put it on tape.

Wait, wait, wait. What song? Okay. Oh, I wasn't thinking of her. Oh, my God. I forgot about her. Okay, I won't say artist, but what song or project was hard to complete before? See, but then again, I don't know.

Because the artist was difficult?

I'm not giving reasons. I'm just saying that, you know, I'm just trying to enter through the back door to not make it sound like you're shitting on a particular artist. You know something? What song took a while to... Who's the biggest douchebag ever?

One that comes to mind to me, but she was a really, really nice person. But I remember me and Peter... Because she was so meticulous about her vocals, about what she wanted. It's like every S, everything she wanted punched. You know what I'm talking about?

Taylor?

No.

Not Taylor Day?

Yeah.

No, Taylor was good.

Taylor did.

Chyna Phillips.

Oh, well, that wasn't difficult.

No, that was difficult, P.

I don't remember. I don't remember.

I remember because she wanted... I remember her doing vocals and wanted every little note so perfect that.

Yeah, I don't remember that.

I remember that.

The one name that came up, and really it was one of the first projects we did together, and I would take responsibility and say it was more me than her, was Mickey Howard.

But that's because at the time. Come Share My World era, or? This was after her first record. Yeah, so this was before Come Share My World.

We did a couple of songs on her first record.

It was only because I, like, you know, working for singers, you have to, some of them you have to give them those sometimes, but some of them are just, they're really a vibe, they just gotta let them sing all the way down, and not tell them too much.

Whitney was like that.

Yeah, so with Mickey, I think it was more me just trying to kind of pinpoint it, it too.

Much of her. She was this type of singer that just let it go. Rob Markman, Jr.: Yeah, she wants to. Rob Markman, Jr.: You coached Whitney vocals? No, Whitney, Mickey.

Rob Markman, Jr.

Oh, you said Whitney was like that.

Yeah, because I worked with Kashif.

Rob Markman, Jr.

Kashif.

Oh, think about you. You're on the first record. You get Good Love.

No, I wasn't on that record, but I was in the studio. As a matter of fact, I was in the studio when Lala played her the song.

Rob Markman, Jr.

Oh, okay. But I knew she was the type of singer that... you had to let her sing things out. I mean, she could punch things in, but it was better if you let her sing multiple takes.

And then you take what you want.

Yeah, exactly.

She was just that kind of singer. If you kind of broke it up, she kind of broke the momentum.

Of her feeling. I only ask because, like, yeah, vocals are a nightmare for me. Why?

What do you mean, doing vocals? Producing vocals?

I think maybe I'm just trying to learn to not be as. Standoffish or whatever. So I always have what I call a bad cop to... So you.

Don't want to say things that you... Yeah, me and Pete used to do that.

Me and Pete used to do that.

And you know who I work with, so it's just like I always have a bad cop on standby for vocals. I'm creating the music, creating the song, creating the music, engineering.

Dude, I'll be your bad cop anytime. Trust.

And that's how we're going to end Questlove. Supreme, ladies and gentlemen.

I love it.

You guys, thank you so much. Thank you. This was an amazing night. Oh, yeah, I love it. Thank you. On behalf of Team Supreme, Steve, you still with us? Yeah, I have a question. And let's stop. Is the show over? No, we're back on. You really live at Neverland? You say Neverland. Show's over, ladies and gentlemen.

It's so serious.

It's good.

All right, we out.

We are out.

We have Sugar Steve, Laia, and Boss Bill, Fontigolo, and Bill. Can they replace Fontigolo and Bill permanently? Yes, totally. Let's all just. Yeah, I'm going to join the family stand. They're joining Questlove Supreme.

Yeah, absolutely.

We will see you on the next go-round. Thank you. This is a very special Questlove Supreme on iHeartRadio.

Much love.

Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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