Comfort in Your Own Skin

Remember, we welcome comments, questions, and suggested topics at thewonderpodcastQs@gmail.com.

Inner Critic episode: thewonderpodcast.podbean.com/e/the-inner-criti…

The Jewel ritual: atheopaganism.org/2015/03/05/the-jewel-a-solit…

S4E26 TRANSCRIPT:

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Yucca: Welcome back to The Wonder: Science Based Paganism. I'm your host, Yucca,

Mark: And I'm Mark.

Yucca: and today we are talking about psychological freedom. So, to do your practice, to feel, to be vulnerable, all of that good stuff.

Mark: Yeah, because this is so often a challenge for folks who are first coming into naturalistic pagan or atheopagan practice, especially if they're deconstructing from other religions that are much more about conformity and obedience.

Yucca: Right.

Mark: There's that feeling of being watched. There's this sense of shame about either doing it wrong or that you're doing it all at all.

There's

Yucca: Just that judgment, all of that. That icky judgment all over the place.

Mark: it's just a real minefield, and so we wanted to talk about it and make some suggestions and just normalize that this happens, right? This is, yeah, this, this is a real thing. There's nothing wrong with you if you're feeling it. And maybe there's some things we can suggest that might make it a little better.

Yucca: Right. Because this is something that comes up a lot in different words but a thing that people deal with, right?

Mark: hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Especially when they're first entering the practice, there are a lot of people who are like, Well, I don't do rituals, but I go for walks in nature. And that's fine. That's perfectly fine. If your experience of a ritual is going out for a walk in nature and having that kind of communion, there's nothing wrong with that, and you don't have to do anything else if you don't want to.

But there is something about investing a place in a moment. in deliberate psychological manipulation of yourself in order to get freer and happier and wiser.

Yucca: Mm hmm.

Mark: And that really is what our, our path is about. And there are so many voices in our society and especially in the mainstream religions that discourage you from being freer and happier and wiser.

Yucca: Yeah.

Mark: That we We want to help facilitate movement in that direction.

Yucca: Right. So there's a lot of different things that could be contributing to this. One of the things may be the critic voice. And we've, it was quite a few years ago but I think one of our best episodes where we talked about the critic voice, and I'll put the link to that in the show notes if anybody hasn't listened to it before but that critic, that, that voice has a, a function, right?

It, it came about trying to protect you and there, there may be some of that happening when you are When it's, okay, so, when you get a wound, let's say you get a cut it, when you need to clean that cut out, you need to do it, because otherwise you're gonna have dirt and sticks and whatever it is inside that wound, but it hurts, and so you have this instinctual response of pulling your arm away, not putting your arm under the water and washing it out, and sometimes that critic is Is the, that instinct to pull the arm away and not let that happen, protect, stop it, don't let it happen.

So I think that's going on to a certain extent, and then also, we aren't, we don't really learn in our culture how to really check in with ourselves and be really honest with ourselves, especially when it is the vulnerable. Right? We're taught to just kind of look the other way and, you know, man up or, you know, whatever the particular phrase is for whatever your gender or culture is, but it's, it's like, we are encouraged to be soft and be okay with the parts of us that are soft.

Mark: Right, that's absolutely true. Particularly for men, but, but, it's true for everybody.

Yucca: Right. That's why I use the man up expression,

Mark: Right.

Yucca: Which, you know, it happens with women as well, but it, but it seems like the pressure is, looking from the outside, it seems like the pressure on, on men and, and young boys especially is much, much stronger

Mark: Yeah, the vice that is applied to those that identify as men is so compressing that the only emotions permissible are anger and the only response that's available is violence. It's just really, really challenging to step out of that and say, no, actually, my feelings are really hurt.

Yucca: And I am a whole human who has all of these feelings. All of these things are human and I, I get to be and have all of these things too.

Mark: right. And it's ironic to me because there are many who point to ancient cultures like in the Norse Eddas or in Greek mythology, and there are men who weep in these stories. Right? Who, who are, you know, devastated by events that happen in the stories, and they weep, and somehow that just kind of gets ignored in the modern drawing forth of these,

Yucca: Right. Well, I think it ties back around to something that you mentioned at the beginning about the more controlling religions.

Mark: Yes,

Yucca: are, the religions are part of a larger framework for, of culture and that we, we're, We have a lot of cultures right now that are really on there being a group that controls another group.

Mark: yes, yes. The, the largest and most powerful religions in the world, and this is not just Christianity, it is Christianity, but it's also Islam, and it's also Buddhism, and it's also Hinduism, is Orient, are oriented around obedience,

Yucca: Right.

Mark: around supplication to what we believe is a mythical, supernatural presence,

Yucca: Mm hmm.

Mark: and And self flagellation in so many ways, you know, I'm unworthy, I'm a sinner, all those things.

And emerging from that, which is, let me just say right now, a tremendously courageous act.

Yucca: Yeah.

Mark: We see people coming into our, our community who, I mean, we have people that were pastors. They come into our community that were not only, you know, following that, that path, but had all eyes of a congregation on them to encourage them to toe the line.

And they said, this is wrong. I'm gone. I'm leaving.

Yucca: Wow.

Mark: And that is extraordinary. It is just extraordinarily courageous. But it carries a lot of baggage with it. Just because you say, I'm not going to do this anymore, doesn't mean that its frameworks and its mental habits don't come with you. And so,

Yucca: got a lifetime of habits and unconscious beliefs. Mm

Mark: exactly, exactly. And so, we've been talking in the Facebook community recently about, for example, that sense of embarrassment at being observed while doing your atheopagan practice. And so, You know, even having someone in the house or just kind of, you know, it's like a soap bubble when it's new, right?

It's just so fragile and precious and you don't want it destroyed by critical eyes and the critical voice in your head. And that is absolutely a legitimate experience and feeling, and I want to start there.

Yucca: Absolutely.

Mark: you're, there's nothing wrong with you for feeling those feelings. It absolutely makes sense,

Yucca: they're there. They're, they came about for a reason. Yeah.

Mark: especially if you are accustomed to being in a religious community where everybody watches everybody else to make sure they're conforming,

Yucca: Right? Mm-hmm.

Mark: which is not ours. That's, that's just not what we're doing. It's radical, and it's different than the mainstream, but it's what we're about, and if that's what you want, then we welcome you and encourage you to, to find your path. Find, find what's meaningful for you. I can guarantee that there is no focus in the world, no alter in the world. I use the word focus that looks like mine and that there is no spiritual practice of athe paganism that looks like mine. And that's great because

Yucca: Even though you've literally published books on it.

Mark: yes, …