Gospel | Chapter 4: Aug 24, 1882 (Part 4) & Oct 16 1882 (Part 1)

[SPEAKER_01]: We read the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, which is the English translation of the Sri Ramakrishna, Katham Rita. [SPEAKER_01]: We've been going to record of the discussions and dialogues of Sri Ramakrishna. [SPEAKER_01]: We are using this question of the Ram Krishna Kathamritu. [SPEAKER_01]: This is the Gospel of Ram Sri Ram Krishna published by again in New York itself actually the Ram Krishna Vivekananda Center.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now today we'll read from page 117 page 117 and the date is 16 October 1882, but before I go in there, just a couple of comments about page 116. [SPEAKER_01]: In the middle of that, page 116, in the middle of that, Sri Ramakrishna says, one must propitiate the Divine Mother, the primal energy, in order to obtain God's grace.

[SPEAKER_01]: God Himself is Mahāmaaya. [SPEAKER_01]: See again, because the limitation of English, you have to say, God Himself. [SPEAKER_01]: But actually, Mahamaya is feminine and Seram Krishna always used it, he meant it in the feminine because he meant the Divine Mother for him. [SPEAKER_01]: It was Kali.

[SPEAKER_01]: God himself is Mahamaya who deludes the world with her illusion. [SPEAKER_01]: You see, how you trip up over the gender if you constantly use the male to talk about God. [SPEAKER_01]: Not just the interesting sentence, God himself is Mahamaaya who deludes the world with her illusion. [SPEAKER_01]: this himself and you are forced to change it to her at the moment you use Mahamaya which is feminine.

[SPEAKER_01]: And conjures up the magic of creation, preservation and destruction. [SPEAKER_01]: She has spread this spread this veil of ignorance before our eyes. [SPEAKER_01]: We can go into the inner chamber only when she lets us pass through the door, living outside we see only outer objects but not that eternal being [SPEAKER_01]: Therefore, it is stated in the Purana that detis like Brahma, trades Mahamaya for the destruction of the demons, Madhu and Kaitava.

[SPEAKER_01]: Shakti alone is the root of the universe that primal energy has two aspects, Vidya and Avidya, Avidya deludes, Avidya conjures up less than gold, which casts the spell. [SPEAKER_01]: Vidya bighets devotion, kindness wisdom and love, which lead one to God. [SPEAKER_01]: This avidya must be propitiated and that is the purpose of the rights of Shakti Vashit.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll make a couple of points here. [SPEAKER_01]: From a Vedantic standpoint, whenever Sri Ramakrishna speaks about Shakti, Mahamaya, Kali, he basically means what is in Vedantic terminology called Saguna Brahman. [SPEAKER_01]: And Sri Ramakrishna also has said that number of times, that which you call Ishwar or Saguna Brahman, I call that Kali.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, basically, he means God, if the emphasis is on the power side of it, the Shakti side of it, it's often referred to and worshiped as feminine as the goddess, which is the same reality. [SPEAKER_01]: If you emphasize the consciousness side of it, then you call it drunken, shiva. [SPEAKER_01]: If you emphasize the power side of it, you call it shakti, and a durga, kali, like me, and whatnot, all the different forms of the divine feminine.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it is the same reality. [SPEAKER_01]: Even from the non-dual Vedantic perspective, a great Vedanta perspective, there's a great importance in the worship of Shakti, in the worship of God, in the worship of Shakti specifically. [SPEAKER_01]: Why? [SPEAKER_01]: Sri Ramakrishna himself has said, if you want to knowledge of the non-dual gram realization of Brahman, then the way to do that is to worship God by worshiping the reflection.

[SPEAKER_01]: You get the sun. [SPEAKER_01]: reflection. [SPEAKER_01]: So, notice he calls God, Shakti, the reflection of Brahman, which is perfectly all right from an Advaiti perspective. [SPEAKER_01]: After all, what is the definition? [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I'll go into the precise definition of the absolute reality and God.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, what is the absolute reality according to Advaita Vedanta? [SPEAKER_01]: Those of us who have studied the Vedanta-sara, the introductory manual of Vedanta, you remember the definition, was to Satjidana and the Madhwayam Ramma. [SPEAKER_01]: The reality is one non-dual existence consciousness, please, the absolute reality of everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: That is in Vedanta, that is called paramartika-saktim. [SPEAKER_01]: The absolute truth, the highest truth, or the ultimate truth. [SPEAKER_01]: And everything else, [SPEAKER_01]: is an appearance of that, that ultimate reality. [SPEAKER_01]: So everything else is not a separate existence.

[SPEAKER_01]: This entire universe, you, I, and indeed the God of this universe, the God whom Sri Ramakrishna worships as Kali, all of that is an appearance of that absolute reality. [SPEAKER_01]: When we say appearance, one has to be careful, it does not mean it's unreal, it's non-existent, it's very much existent.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is as far as we understand existence, definitely from our perspective, the world is existence, if I am a existing person, the G was an existing entity with body mind, then the world is also real. [SPEAKER_01]: And then God is definitely real. [SPEAKER_01]: And [SPEAKER_01]: As I am Brahman, you are Brahman, Tattva Masi, you are cat.

[SPEAKER_01]: What is God? [SPEAKER_01]: God is Brahman. [SPEAKER_01]: God is the ultimate reality. [SPEAKER_01]: Why I am raising this question is, from an absolute or from an Advaitic perspective, sometimes scholars or monks also make a point which may be shocking to many people, especially devotees.

[SPEAKER_01]: From another way, I think perspective sometimes God is said to be an appearance. [SPEAKER_01]: Each for a second of Ramadan. [SPEAKER_01]: That has to be handled very carefully. [SPEAKER_01]: That's an explosive statement. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's why devotees become very annoyed with Gyanis and the dualistic schools of Vedanta, Dwaita, Vishestadwaita, they think that the non-duelists are Adwaita and Saryatis, Nastik.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because they're denying the existence of God. [SPEAKER_01]: Non-duelists Adwaita does not deny the existence of God. [SPEAKER_01]: To the extent that a dualist admits the existence of God, to that extent. [SPEAKER_01]: Advaita Vedanta, admits the existence of God. [SPEAKER_01]: Only that thing is that Advaita Vedanta speaks of her for deeper or a higher level of existence of an ultimate reality beyond the level of God, world and individual.

[SPEAKER_01]: Jeva Jagatishwara, Ishwar and Jagatjiva. [SPEAKER_01]: What is the practical implication? [SPEAKER_01]: The practical implication is this that just as, according to Advaita Vedanta, you are from and I am wrong and I am the ultimate reality, you are the ultimate reality. [SPEAKER_01]: God is no less the ultimate reality.

[SPEAKER_01]: And also, we are in ignorance, as he says, Avidya Maya, we are suffering, we think we are the body mind and we are going from lifetime to lifetime, we find ourselves miserable. [SPEAKER_01]: We find ourselves limited [SPEAKER_01]: in the forces of the universe, whereas God is ever liberated.

[SPEAKER_01]: Second Abraham and Ishwara, all these knows. [SPEAKER_01]: But I am Brahman, I am the telemetryality, the telemetryality of the universe is not going to Brahman, and I am the telemetryality. [SPEAKER_01]: I then are going to Brahman, I appear as Ishwarah, and I create this universe or project this universe, as he says, by the power of Shakti, Srishti Sthiti Pralaya, the creation, preservation, destruction, that magic calls it like a magic show.

[SPEAKER_01]: That I do, who says that? [SPEAKER_01]: God says that, Ishwar says that. [SPEAKER_01]: Subunabramman says that. [SPEAKER_01]: Shiva, Kali, whatever you say is somebody says are they like are they like a committee or something who will create the universe they're not a committee they are the same reality there's only one reality and that and there's God is also one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, what Sri Ramakrishna consistently suggests is if you want non-dual knowledge [SPEAKER_01]: by the worship of God, devotion to God, you can get that knowledge. [SPEAKER_01]: As he says, from the reflection of the sun, you can go to the real sun. [SPEAKER_01]: That means you can understand the real sun.

[SPEAKER_00]: You see, we are Brahman right now. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the only reality that exists. [SPEAKER_01]: And Brahman is perfectly compatible with their appearance of this universe. [SPEAKER_01]: Not only that, Brahman is perfectly compatible with our ignorance and our misery and our suffering also.

[SPEAKER_01]: our whole samsara exists because of Pramma, what will help us is not the absolute reality, not going to Pramma, which is the reality of this universe. [SPEAKER_01]: But, second of Pramma, Ishwar, by whose grace we can transcend this samsara, we can transcend sorrow and we can even get the knowledge of our reality that we are, that we are, that we are Brahman itself.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why I'm saying this is for a practical reason. [SPEAKER_01]: If you read the Upanishads, Shankara's commentaries and the Adwaita texts, which I have taught also, that is what is called the direct path. [SPEAKER_01]: You hear this truth, understand it, contemplate it, meditate upon it, and you will realize that you are from.

[SPEAKER_01]: However, [SPEAKER_01]: It is the experience, there's a practical experience of large numbers of people, including many people I've spoken to. [SPEAKER_01]: That if I put in an effort, if I study this carefully, I come to an understanding, but I feel it's an intellectual understanding. [SPEAKER_01]: And really my life is not changing so much and I'm not getting the promised benefits.

[SPEAKER_01]: The promised benefit was overcoming suffering, attainment of fulfillment. [SPEAKER_01]: The problem is not with the path. [SPEAKER_01]: The problem is not with the Advaita Vedanta. [SPEAKER_01]: Remember, Advaita Vedanta makes it very clear at the entrance itself that you need to have these qualifications.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sadham Jatushtai, Sampana Pramata, Dikari, I'm quoting from the Pidantasara, who is qualified for Vedanta? [SPEAKER_01]: The seeker, Pramata literally means to know her. [SPEAKER_01]: The seeker, who has the fourfold qualifications, Sadham Jatushtai. [SPEAKER_01]: And most of us, we will have to be honest that we fall short.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not that we don't have those qualifications. [SPEAKER_01]: But we fall short on those qualifications. [SPEAKER_01]: We have not enough of it. [SPEAKER_01]: And therefore, we struggle. [SPEAKER_01]: Therefore, this direct path doesn't seem to work for us. [SPEAKER_01]: And therefore, we need help.

[SPEAKER_01]: So Ramakrishna says, Shakti is the root of the entire universe. [SPEAKER_01]: So our samsara is entirely pervaded by Shakti. [SPEAKER_01]: Why not take the help of God? [SPEAKER_01]: Why not take the help of each for our Shakti? [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, Shakti or Ishwar is helping us right now that we have access to these texts, that we have an interesting Vedanta, but time and opportunity is there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Texts and teachers are available. [SPEAKER_01]: All this is by the grace of Shakti. [SPEAKER_01]: So we, if you pray to God, the same knowledge, which the direct and path of inquiry gives to you, you will get the same knowledge. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's the point I want to make by non-dual knowledge is also attainable by devotion to ishwar and praying for that specifically to ishwar.

[SPEAKER_01]: That is that is possible. [SPEAKER_01]: one beautiful question I had in a retreat was that after a sustained study of Advaita Vedanta, we come to an understanding our condition now is that for philosophy, for understanding, for Vedanta, we rely on the Advaita Vedanta, we are understanding that I am prominent, but for our life, we rely on Ishvara, on God, Saguna Brahma.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's such a true statement, and there is nothing wrong with it. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I want to say. [SPEAKER_01]: Classical Adwaita Vedanta emphasizes Nidgunapramman and Saganapram. [SPEAKER_01]: The moment you say for my Samsara, I take refuge in God in Saganapramman. [SPEAKER_01]: But, strictly, all right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Who's Samsara? [SPEAKER_01]: Samsara of Jiva. [SPEAKER_01]: Only Jiva as Samsara. [SPEAKER_01]: Nidgunapramman does not have Samsara. [SPEAKER_01]: The moment I say my Samsara, I am Jiva. [SPEAKER_01]: In that case, that same Nidgunapramman is Saganapramman for me. [SPEAKER_01]: The same Nidgunaprasachidana in the is now the Divine Mother for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Shiva, Kali, Vishnu, in whichever form you worship. [SPEAKER_01]: So it is perfectly all right to have both of these. [SPEAKER_01]: The pursuit, cultivation of the knowledge, Aham Ramahasmi, you will see it will help more and more and more. [SPEAKER_01]: At the same time, a strong base of devotion and faith in God.

[SPEAKER_01]: In whichever tradition you'll remember it's the same God ultimately. [SPEAKER_01]: It could be any one of the range of Hindu traditions, or beyond the range of Hindu traditions, Christian Islamic, I know many Christians of course, but Jewish people and Muslims, I know a number of them who find a lot of benefit in non-dual Vedanta.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they can pursue their, the basis of their religion and these are not two contradictory things. [SPEAKER_01]: The devotional part of it helps the knowledge part of it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a very big support. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm translating from what I heard from Sadhu's in Uttarakhand, once I do great person.

[SPEAKER_01]: He used to say, Pahud, Bada, Bada, Bada, Bada, Bada, Badi Sahara, it's a very great support. [SPEAKER_01]: The support of Ishwar of God. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the mightiest power in this universe. [SPEAKER_01]: So what we want, we can achieve through the grace of God also. [SPEAKER_01]: And remember, none of this is against classical activity of Iran.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you go to the Shankara Matas, traditionally you will find regular worship of the Divine Mother of Sheen. [SPEAKER_01]: It goes on and the understand is very well. [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, let me come to 16 October 1882 page 117 review. [SPEAKER_01]: October 16, 1882, it was Monday, a few days before Dutta Hujah, the festival of the Divine Mother.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sri Ramakrishna was in a very happy state of mind. [SPEAKER_01]: Narendra had brought two or three young members of the Brahma Samaj to the temple garden, besides these Rakhaal, Ramlaal, Hajra and M were with the master. [SPEAKER_01]: Narendra had his midday meal with Sri Ramakrishna. [SPEAKER_01]: Afterwards, a temporary bed was made on the floor of the master's room, so that the disciples might rest a while.

[SPEAKER_01]: A mat was spread, over which was placed a quilt covered with a white sheet. [SPEAKER_01]: A few cushions and pillows completed the simple bed. [SPEAKER_01]: Like a child, the master sat near Narin Ranath on the bed. [SPEAKER_01]: He talked with the devotees in great delight. [SPEAKER_01]: with a radiant smile lighting his face and his eyes fixed on Narendra.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was giving them various spiritual teachings, interspersing them with incidents from his own life. [SPEAKER_01]: Master. [SPEAKER_01]: After I had experienced Samadhi, my mind craved intensely to hear only about God. [SPEAKER_01]: I would always search for places where they were reciting or explaining the sacred books, such as the Bhagavadha, the Mahabharata, and the Dhyatma Ramayana.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had used to go to Krishna Kishod to hear him read the Dhyatma Ramayana. [SPEAKER_01]: What tremendous faith Krishna Khrishore had, once, while at Rindavan, he felt thirsty, and even to a well, near it he saw a man standing, on being asked to draw a little water for him, the man said, I belong to a low cast, sir, you are a Brahmin, how can I draw water for you?

[SPEAKER_01]: Krishna Khrishore said, take the name of Shiva, by repeating his holy name, you will make yourself [SPEAKER_01]: The low cast man did as he was told, and Krishna Kishore, all sorts of Brahmin that he was drank that water. [SPEAKER_01]: What tremendous faith. [SPEAKER_01]: Now does it doesn't make any difference to us?

[SPEAKER_01]: We might wonder what all this class is about, but it was a huge thing in those days. [SPEAKER_01]: So just by sheer power of faith and devotion, all differences, so-called differences, you know, they were erased. [SPEAKER_01]: once and also I want to make the point that it was always a tradition in Hindu classical Hinduism for thousands of years.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even then all these caste hierarchies were mentioned maintained. [SPEAKER_01]: Even then it was always understood that somebody who's wholly who's spiritual is above caste. [SPEAKER_01]: So people of whatever caste would always respect the saint, no matter what caste they came from, what gender they were always in India and all parts of India, they were men and women who were saints, but it's interesting how in India, in a very hierarchical, hierarchical, I would say very divided society, spirituality easily overcame all these divisions.

[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody had automatic respect for a saint. [SPEAKER_01]: Once a holy man came to the bank of the ganges and living near and lived near the bathing car and heart at Oriya Daha. [SPEAKER_01]: Not far from the Kshaneshwar. [SPEAKER_01]: We thought of paying him a visit. [SPEAKER_01]: I said to Hullad Hari, be means to Ram Krishna.

[SPEAKER_01]: I said to Hullad Hari, Krishna Kishore and I are going to see a holy man. [SPEAKER_01]: Will you come with us? [SPEAKER_01]: Hullad Hari replied, what is the use of seeing a mere human body, [SPEAKER_01]: Hallowed Hari was a student of the Gita and Vedanta philosophy, and therefore referred to the Holy Man as a mere cage of clay.

[SPEAKER_01]: I repeated this to Krishna Kishore, with great anger he said, how impudent of Hallowed Hari to make such a remark? [SPEAKER_01]: How can he ridicule as a cage of clay, the body of a man who constantly thinks of God, who meditates on Rama and has renounced all for the sake of the Lord? [SPEAKER_01]: So doesn't he know that such a man is the embodiment of spirit?

[SPEAKER_01]: He was so upset by Haladari's remarks that he would turn his face away from him. [SPEAKER_01]: And whenever he met him in the temple garden, and he would turn his face away from him. [SPEAKER_01]: Whenever he met him in the temple garden and stopped speaking to him. [SPEAKER_01]: So here I just remark is a classic case of misuse of non-dualism of Advaita Vedanta.

[SPEAKER_01]: There are multiple errors that a new enthusiast in Advaitavilantha can make, one is to consider that, oh, I've got a highest. [SPEAKER_01]: So immediately, look down on everybody else. [SPEAKER_01]: So somebody who is a devotee, somebody who believes in God in some form, who practices rituals, immediately say, oh, all that is an appearance, all that is false, all that is like, or even near superstition, here is the real thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: That is an error. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, here is the real thing here. [SPEAKER_01]: I agree entirely. [SPEAKER_01]: Here is the highest truth. [SPEAKER_01]: But all of those are also true. [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, they can't just say, we go from lower truth to higher truth, not from falsehood to truth.

[SPEAKER_01]: All of those are true. [SPEAKER_01]: All of those are useful. [SPEAKER_01]: They are beneficial. [SPEAKER_01]: And they are holy and sacred. [SPEAKER_01]: Whether it is the company of Sadhu, whether it is a rituals performed, anything that is performed with devotion towards God. [SPEAKER_01]: And has the sanction of tradition in various religions.

[SPEAKER_01]: is welcome. [SPEAKER_01]: Another error is why I realized I'm Brahman. [SPEAKER_01]: So immediately give up all spiritual practices. [SPEAKER_01]: Now meditation is not necessary. [SPEAKER_01]: Pooja is not necessary. [SPEAKER_01]: You know karma you always not necessary. [SPEAKER_01]: But that way one one only is only asking for trouble.

[SPEAKER_01]: So until one is the Brahma Kiani one will not give up spiritual practices. [SPEAKER_01]: Not give up karma you can not give up [SPEAKER_01]: Another thing is to criticize, other approaches, you know, it is to argue and criticize because it's primarily a path of reasoning, the intellect gets the superior hand and now the tendency of the intellect is to criticize.

[SPEAKER_01]: reasoning or argumentation. [SPEAKER_01]: One word for scissors is katthana, just the opposite of tarka. [SPEAKER_01]: So scissors is the intellect is like scissors. [SPEAKER_01]: It cuts, cuts means analyzes. [SPEAKER_01]: But just like if you have a pair of scissors, you don't go around cutting everything, you don't cut the drapes in the house, you don't cut the dresses of people, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you don't do that. [SPEAKER_01]: You have to use, know how to use the scissors. [SPEAKER_01]: Similarly, reasoning has, you have to know where to use it. [SPEAKER_01]: people use it like a sword to cut down things left and right. [SPEAKER_01]: That is harmful. [SPEAKER_01]: It is harmful for oneself and harmful for other thoughts.

[SPEAKER_01]: Science, for example, to the extent of science, I know this the gentleman who is a physicist, he went to a great Advaita teacher. [SPEAKER_01]: I will not take the name, but he respected Advaita teacher in India. [SPEAKER_01]: and the teacher asked him so what do you do? [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm a physicist, physics, I do fundamental physics.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, all that is Maya, come to the right time, we teach you the real thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Now I understand the intention of the teacher, but it is hurtful. [SPEAKER_01]: to say that you dismiss with man's entire life, work and smile, look at on the other hand the way Swami Vivekananda first to it, which is why people like Edison and Tesla and others were attracted to Him, William James and others.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's all a quest for the truth. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I mean, Vivekan, they went to the extent of saying art, science, and religion are three ways of getting at the same truth, but you need the theory of non-duality to understand this, the theory of undivided to understand this.

[SPEAKER_01]: He said this to sustainability, which is an interesting remark. [SPEAKER_01]: Recently, I was in a panel discussion on the life and work of David Bomb, the physicist, [SPEAKER_01]: There, somebody pointed out David Baum believed and he himself said that human spirit has these three categories.

[SPEAKER_01]: There is the spiritual type, there is the artistic type and there is the scientific type with three ways of looking for truth. [SPEAKER_01]: So what an interesting thing, exactly what Swami Vivekananda said. [SPEAKER_01]: So if you are spiritual and you approach it through your art, music, writing, painting, sculpture, whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: dance. [SPEAKER_01]: That's perfectly all right. [SPEAKER_01]: If you're spiritual and you approach it through science, some scientists were very spiritual. [SPEAKER_01]: Heisenberg, for example, David Baum himself Einstein, Einstein regard the David Baum as his spiritual son, he said. [SPEAKER_01]: And the Dalai Lama also is all part of the discussion which we had.

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know these things. [SPEAKER_01]: The Dalai Lama referred to David Baum [SPEAKER_01]: So, there can be a spiritual pursuit in the field of science, which is valid. [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the religious or the spiritual approach itself. [SPEAKER_01]: You're pursuing straight forward, away the Vedanta or Mahayana but there's a more something.

[SPEAKER_01]: All three will get you through the truth. [SPEAKER_01]: But caution is it true that if I'm an artist, so I'll become enlightened. [SPEAKER_01]: Not necessarily. [SPEAKER_01]: If I am a scientist, so I'll become enlightened, not necessarily. [SPEAKER_01]: You have to be a spiritual seeker, and then your path can be art, science, or the traditional paths of meditation, devotion, self-enquiry, and so on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let me go on, a little more. [SPEAKER_01]: This Krishna Kishore is a very interesting character. [SPEAKER_01]: Once Krishna Kishore asked me, why have you cast up the sacred thread? [SPEAKER_01]: In those days of God vision, I felt as if I were passing through the great storm of Ashwin.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is a cycle on this footnote, the master referred to the great cyclone of 1864. [SPEAKER_01]: and everything had blown away from me. [SPEAKER_01]: No trace of my old self was left. [SPEAKER_01]: I lost all consciousness of the world. [SPEAKER_01]: I could hardly keep my cloth on my body, not to speak of the sacred thread.

[SPEAKER_01]: I said to Krishna Kishow, ah, you will understand if you ever happen to be as intoxicated with God as I was. [SPEAKER_01]: And so these words, when they come out from Sri Ramakrishna's mouth, they have an effect. [SPEAKER_01]: So Krishna Kishore himself experienced some of that. [SPEAKER_01]: Next, do you see?

[SPEAKER_01]: And it actually came to pass. [SPEAKER_01]: He too passed through a God-intoxicated state, where he would repeat only the word, or and shut himself up alone in his room. [SPEAKER_01]: His relatives thought he was actually mad, and called him a physician. [SPEAKER_01]: Ram Kaviraj of Nata Goud.

[SPEAKER_01]: came to see him. [SPEAKER_01]: Krishna Kishod said to the physician, cure me sir of my malady, if you please, but not of my own. [SPEAKER_01]: All last. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Next. [SPEAKER_01]: One day, I went to see him and found him in a pensive mood. [SPEAKER_01]: When I asked him about it, he said, the tax collector was here.

[SPEAKER_01]: He threatened to dispose of my brass pots, my cups, and my few utensils if I didn't pay the tax. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm worried. [SPEAKER_01]: I said, [SPEAKER_01]: but it was a little background. [SPEAKER_01]: Krishna Kishore often used to say in a very Vedantic mood, I am the sky, which by which he meant his sky-like consciousness in use the Sanskrit and Bengali word, Karl, Karl means sky.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it indicates not just the physical space, but the space of consciousness. [SPEAKER_01]: So I am consciousness, I am Brahman. [SPEAKER_01]: He would say I am sky. [SPEAKER_01]: I said, but why should you worry about it? [SPEAKER_01]: Let him take away your pots and pans. [SPEAKER_01]: Let him arrest your body, even.

[SPEAKER_01]: How will that affect you? [SPEAKER_01]: For your nature is that of God. [SPEAKER_01]: This is God. [SPEAKER_01]: Your consciousness. [SPEAKER_01]: Not in the and the others laugh. [SPEAKER_01]: He used to say to me that he was spirit all pervading as the sky. [SPEAKER_01]: He had got that idea from the Dhyatma Ramayana.

[SPEAKER_01]: I used to tease him now and then addressing him as God. [SPEAKER_01]: Therefore, I said to him that day with the smile, your text is cannot move you. [SPEAKER_01]: Again, um, I'll make a remark here before we go ahead. [SPEAKER_01]: There's also similar funny story with Swami Vivekananda.

[SPEAKER_01]: She in one of the places where he stayed in the United States, a group of devotees, American devotees had collected around him. [SPEAKER_01]: One of them was a retired doctor, a very serious [SPEAKER_01]: very taken the idea that he was Brahman, the infinite spirit, so he would plain typically ask Swami Vivekananda every day, but I am Brahman, isn't it?

[SPEAKER_01]: And Swami Vivekananda would say, yes, Doki would call him Doki, yes, Doki, you are Brahman, I mean after every [SPEAKER_01]: He would be anxious to see what is the ultimate result of the talk. [SPEAKER_01]: Does it still stand that I'm Raman or not? [SPEAKER_01]: So he would ask why I'm going to wake up.

[SPEAKER_01]: But Swami, I'm Raman, isn't it? [SPEAKER_01]: He has to wake you up, Raman. [SPEAKER_01]: One day at breakfast table, the doctor came down a little late. [SPEAKER_01]: And Swami Vivekananda equipped. [SPEAKER_01]: He said, here comes Raman, and everybody burst into laughter. [SPEAKER_01]: So the comment I wanted to make was, [SPEAKER_01]: This is the, the Advaitiq idea of two levels of truth.

[SPEAKER_01]: Paramatika Satyam absolute truth. [SPEAKER_01]: We have a harika Satyam transactional or relative truth. [SPEAKER_01]: What is relative truth? [SPEAKER_01]: This one, this world that we inhabit, our waking world, this body, this personality, my bio, my little bio data, my little personal history.

[SPEAKER_01]: What I have done in this life, [SPEAKER_01]: people around me, this world around me, in fact, this entire universe, all of that is relative reality. [SPEAKER_01]: So like we might ask, what other reality can there be? [SPEAKER_01]: Adwaita Vedanta says, this is an appearance of a deeper underlying reality, which is called Brahman, existence consciousness, please.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's an infinite ocean of existence all around us right now. [SPEAKER_01]: And what we consider to be real, tables and chairs, human beings, planets and stars, quarks and causers, all of these. [SPEAKER_01]: They are but waves in this infinite ocean of existence. [SPEAKER_01]: Right now, we don't see that.

[SPEAKER_01]: We just see them as discrete individual entities, which are existing by themselves. [SPEAKER_01]: But there is an underlying reality which gives all of this existence. [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, sometimes the relation between what Vedanta says and modern, say quantum physics, for example, can be uncanny.

[SPEAKER_01]: One physicist described this universe that we have as quantum foam on the surface of a dark ocean of reality of a matter which we don't know yet. [SPEAKER_01]: There's even this, I will end his Hayden Planetarium here and the Museum of Natural History. [SPEAKER_01]: So they were beautiful show and it's narrated by this wonderful astronomer.

[SPEAKER_01]: He is a very good successor to Carl Seigen. [SPEAKER_01]: Neil de Gras Tyson. [SPEAKER_01]: Neil de Gras Tyson. [SPEAKER_01]: So he narrates it. [SPEAKER_01]: So he said that, [SPEAKER_01]: The fact is that we are going to talk about the universe, as we see it now, and yet this is like what 5% of the actual amount of matter in the universe, what we see at the universe, the 5% of the actual matter in the universe, which is decolid dark matter, but we generally don't have any idea what it is, and it's predicted by the mathematics.

[SPEAKER_01]: their Vidyarinya, the possible asset of the text written at least 700 years ago, if it is Vidyarinya, that there 700 years ago, writing in the south of India in the Vidyarinya, I'm going to give it to you. [SPEAKER_01]: He says, what is this universe? [SPEAKER_01]: He says, it is like foam on the surface of an ocean.

[SPEAKER_01]: Literally, Penaadi, what like foam, et cetera, on the surface of the ocean. [SPEAKER_01]: What is that ocean? [SPEAKER_01]: Braman is the ocean. [SPEAKER_01]: And what we consider this universe is he can compare it to form. [SPEAKER_01]: So did he know quantum mechanics and I don't think so.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the language is uncanny. [SPEAKER_01]: A couple of years back, I ran into this Brian Green, who is the cosmologist who teaches at Columbia University, was launching his book until the end of time at Harvard. [SPEAKER_01]: And I asked him about this resemblance of language. [SPEAKER_01]: And he has actually mentioned it in the book also.

[SPEAKER_01]: He said that my elder brother is a monk, Hindu monk. [SPEAKER_01]: And we used to debate this uncanny similarity what the Upanishad say and modern cosmology says. [SPEAKER_01]: So I asked him what is your view about it? [SPEAKER_01]: And he said, it's not science. [SPEAKER_01]: What the Upanishads are saying, what Vedanta is saying, what is not science in the sense?

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's saying the same thing in the poetry. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I feel. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's one of the leading cosmologists in the world today, right here. [SPEAKER_01]: His very famous for his PBS documentaries, elegant universe, things like that. [SPEAKER_00]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: OK.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the absolute reality, Bramhan. [SPEAKER_01]: And this world, which we experience, is the transactional reality. [SPEAKER_01]: What is its relevance to our spiritual life? [SPEAKER_01]: It's very relevant. [SPEAKER_01]: See, without the help of the transactional reality, nobody realizes the absolute reality.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right now, it may be true that grammar is the ultimate reality. [SPEAKER_01]: The world is false, grammar is a team jaratmithya. [SPEAKER_01]: But the fact is that we are nicely caught in this web. [SPEAKER_01]: So right now, our condition is that we are caught in the web of Maya. [SPEAKER_01]: and we feel like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not true, you are drumming actually, but until that realization comes, we need the transactional reality. [SPEAKER_01]: The transactional reality we are very accepting has to be accepted on its own terms. [SPEAKER_01]: We need Vedanta, we need a healthy body, we need opportunity to study Vedanta until we are released from it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, [SPEAKER_01]: At that point, what Sri Ram Krishna was joking, let them take away your thoughts and parents. [SPEAKER_01]: They may even arrest your body and put you in the prison. [SPEAKER_01]: What is it for you? [SPEAKER_01]: And there are actually have been enlightened ones who who would see it as absolutely no consequence, what happens in the world, because they have access to that deeper level of reality, the paramatika perception.

[SPEAKER_01]: Until we have that, we must accept and we must be wise about our life here. [SPEAKER_00]: What I mean by that is, I am Brahman. [SPEAKER_01]: So in the fit of enthusiasm, oh, I don't need a job. [SPEAKER_01]: I am Brahman, why does Brahman need to do a job? [SPEAKER_01]: You're asking for trouble.

[SPEAKER_01]: Life will become so difficult if you don't follow viva harika reality, transactional reality. [SPEAKER_01]: Life will become so difficult. [SPEAKER_01]: You'll have to give up your your Brahman and Vedanta also. [SPEAKER_01]: Under the pressure of trouble created by other people, [SPEAKER_01]: financial problems.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the transactional reality has to be dealt with. [SPEAKER_01]: Common sense, practical sense, all of those are necessary. [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely necessary. [SPEAKER_01]: It's very interesting to see many of the great things, but also very practical people. [SPEAKER_01]: Mental strength, resilience, all of that is necessary.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then you might say, all right, can you just leave your life in this world? [SPEAKER_01]: What is the need of all that ultimate reality, Brahman? [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm going to have to do a job, if I'm going to have to look after the family, then there is no escape for me from this, then what is the use of your Brahman, and Atman and all that?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, there are also, while living in the transactional reality, the knowledge and the realization of the absolute reality, helps you to live much, much better. [SPEAKER_01]: It frees you from fear. [SPEAKER_01]: It gives you lasting satisfaction. [SPEAKER_01]: It shows you that your spiritual nature is completely independent of any appearance.

[SPEAKER_01]: From the perspective of the enlightened one, there is only one reality, Brahman. [SPEAKER_01]: And what we call the transactional reality we have harikas akhtya is an appearance of that problem. [SPEAKER_01]: So he does not say I'm living in two realities. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm shuddling back and forth, not.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's living in Brahman only. [SPEAKER_01]: Enlightened one lives in the ultimate reality. [SPEAKER_01]: And understands our frame of mind. [SPEAKER_01]: When we deal with that person, the enlightened one understands on how we think because he also, he or she also thought in that way at one time or felt that way.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just making two points. [SPEAKER_01]: Always keep in mind, we are inhabiting. [SPEAKER_01]: It is ultimately not true, but for the time being, it is used to be taken as true. [SPEAKER_01]: And all the rules apply. [SPEAKER_01]: Listen, all conditions apply. [SPEAKER_01]: So all conditions apply.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that does not mean spirituality is useless or just an intellectual exercise. [SPEAKER_01]: No, it is of tremendous importance because if you're living here, you must also realize the absolute reality. [SPEAKER_01]: Then it will help you. [SPEAKER_01]: Then you become what is called G1Mukta and that is the code.

[SPEAKER_01]: Neither completely deny the transactional reality that is asking for trouble. [SPEAKER_01]: Your life here will become a hell and spirituality also will not be attained if you do that. [SPEAKER_01]: not ignore or deny that ultimate reality, then you gain nothing, be caught in the web of illusion of you.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's the meaning of this funny story about Kha, which we have on which we have. [SPEAKER_01]: See, notice, even such a spiritual man like Krishna Keshwara, when he was troubled by the IRS, the taxes, he was very tense. [SPEAKER_01]: See, Ram Krishna says, let him take up your pots and pans.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just for the sake of completion, I'd like to be done to actually talk about four levels of reality. [SPEAKER_01]: The absolute level is Bramham. [SPEAKER_01]: The next lower level is the world, which we inhabit our waking reality. [SPEAKER_01]: There are a jug at the world. [SPEAKER_01]: The next lower level of reality is illusions, dreams, errors, seeing the snake in the rope.

[SPEAKER_01]: The rope is there are already a transactional reality. [SPEAKER_01]: This snake is an illusory or error level of reality. [SPEAKER_01]: There's a technical word for that. [SPEAKER_01]: It's called Prathi Bhaseka, appearance. [SPEAKER_01]: There is an even lower level, which you cannot call reality.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is just utterly false. [SPEAKER_01]: And that is called to chart a subt, completely non-existent. [SPEAKER_01]: So what would an example be, a square circle, square certainty? [SPEAKER_01]: It cannot exist. [SPEAKER_01]: Asat and Tuttcha, completely non-existence, utterly unreal. [SPEAKER_01]: Prativasika, dream, illusion, error, virtual reality, movie, fiction, this is Prativasika.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then, Devaharika, this word, which we inhabit, and ultimately, [SPEAKER_01]: examples of the completely unreal asset is not snake rope. [SPEAKER_01]: It is square circle or the classical example which they gave is the son of a barren woman, a bandhyaputra. [SPEAKER_01]: So by definition, the barren woman does not have a son.

[SPEAKER_01]: So son of a barren woman is completely illogically impossible. [SPEAKER_01]: But so [SPEAKER_01]: the difference between this and the Pratyamasika is the completely unreal does not exist and does not appear also. [SPEAKER_01]: You cannot experience it. [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody is experienced to square certain.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it does not exist nor is it experienced. [SPEAKER_01]: The next higher level Pratyamasika is it doesn't exist. [SPEAKER_01]: But it is experienced. [SPEAKER_01]: the snake which you see the rope, mistaken for a snake. [SPEAKER_01]: So the snake which is born of error doesn't exist. [SPEAKER_01]: There is no snake in the rope, but you see it.

[SPEAKER_01]: You seem to see it. [SPEAKER_01]: What you see in the dream, the contents of the dream, did not exist, but you sight. [SPEAKER_01]: You cannot deny that you saw our dream. [SPEAKER_01]: What you see is an illusion. [SPEAKER_01]: So the blue color in the sky. [SPEAKER_01]: The sky is not blue.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is just the color appears like that depending on conditions of sunlight and atmosphere and so on. [SPEAKER_01]: the sun rising in the east and setting in the west. [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't rise in the east and set in the west. [SPEAKER_01]: It's an effect produced by the rotation of the earth.

[SPEAKER_01]: So these are things which are not there, but they appear. [SPEAKER_01]: They do not exist actually. [SPEAKER_01]: They did not happen and you're there appear. [SPEAKER_01]: A movie, things happen which are happening in the movie. [SPEAKER_01]: They are not happening actually. [SPEAKER_01]: There's no earthquake happening, no big fire, no car chase, no Tom and Jerry chasing each other in just appearing.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you experience it. [SPEAKER_01]: So does not exist, but you experience it that is called Pratyvasika. [SPEAKER_01]: And then it exists in a relative sense [SPEAKER_01]: And it appears. [SPEAKER_01]: It does not ultimately exist. [SPEAKER_01]: That is our world and it appears. [SPEAKER_01]: You can experience it.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can see, you can see here, smell taste touch. [SPEAKER_01]: The relation between these two levels of reality, the Pratybasika and the Viva Harika is the Viva Harika. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the Pratybasika is an appearance in the Viva Harika. [SPEAKER_01]: A dreams are an appearance based on our waking.

[SPEAKER_01]: The snake is an appearance based on the rope. [SPEAKER_01]: The rope is Viva Hareka. [SPEAKER_01]: The snake is Pratyvasika. [SPEAKER_01]: Your individuality is Viva Hareka, this body mind. [SPEAKER_01]: But the dream you see is Pratyvasika. [SPEAKER_01]: But beyond the Viva Hareka is Brahman, we want existence consciousness place, compared to which even the Viva Hareka is an appearance.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not real. [SPEAKER_01]: It has no separate reality, it's like a movie. [SPEAKER_01]: It becomes like a dream then. [SPEAKER_01]: So these are the four levels in Adwaita Vedanta. [SPEAKER_01]: The example of Paramarthic absolute reality is only one that is Brahman. [SPEAKER_01]: It's good to keep it in mind because many questions, which come up in Adwaita Vedanta, they can be easily resolved by thinking from what level is the question being asked?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is it being asked from a Vedahari level or Paramarthic level? [SPEAKER_01]: Most confusions are mixing up [SPEAKER_01]: the relative existence and the absolute existence. [SPEAKER_01]: You mix them up a lot of confusion, so you'll arise. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, let me go on. [SPEAKER_01]: In that state of God intoxication, I used to speak out my mind to all.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was no respecter of persons. [SPEAKER_01]: Even to men of position, I was not afraid to speak the truth. [SPEAKER_01]: One must remember, Sri Ramakrishna was a humble priest in a Cali temple. [SPEAKER_01]: And people who are very respected in society, scholars, very rich people who are in a part of the British administration, professors in universities, they knew about him or his visit him.

[SPEAKER_01]: People who are holy people, monks, or spiritual teachers, there's to visit him or he would visit them. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was natural for him to feel different. [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's just an ordinary person. [SPEAKER_01]: And these are such great people in society. [SPEAKER_01]: But he says, in the state of God intoxication, I used to speak out my mind to all.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was no respecter of persons. [SPEAKER_01]: Even to men of position, I was not afraid to speak the truth. [SPEAKER_01]: One day, Jatindra, let's put not a title, aristocrat of Calcutta. [SPEAKER_01]: Jatindra came to the garden of Jadu Mallik. [SPEAKER_01]: I was there too. [SPEAKER_01]: I asked him, what is the duty of man?

[SPEAKER_01]: Isn't it our duty to think of God, just in reply? [SPEAKER_01]: We are worldly people. [SPEAKER_01]: How is it possible for us to achieve liberation? [SPEAKER_01]: Even King Yudhisthira had to have a vision of hell. [SPEAKER_01]: This made me very angry. [SPEAKER_01]: I said to him, [SPEAKER_01]: What sort of man are you of all the incidents in your registered life?

[SPEAKER_01]: You remember only his seeing hair? [SPEAKER_01]: You don't remember his truthfulness, his forebearance, his patience, his discrimination, his dispassion, his devotion to God. [SPEAKER_01]: I was about to say many more things when Rida stopped my marks. [SPEAKER_01]: Rida was his nephew.

[SPEAKER_01]: After a little while, Jatin relapsed the place, saying he had some other business to attend to. [SPEAKER_01]: So this you come across such characters who pick the worst possible examples like literally like the devil's coating the scriptures. [SPEAKER_01]: So you have to tell the truth, you'll pick one instance from the scriptures where somebody had had to tell the untruth and say you don't actually have to tell the truth.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have to sense control, guard realization is the goal. [SPEAKER_01]: They will find counter examples everywhere. [SPEAKER_01]: why do they do that? [SPEAKER_01]: Notice they are intelligent enough or sensitive enough to understand that if this is true, spirituality is true, religion is true, then this should be the center of human life, this should be the goal of human life, but I am too worldly, too much immersed in my worldly pursuits, so I have to find some of the discrediting this.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this cannot be true or religion is not telling me to do that. [SPEAKER_01]: Some of I need an escape clause. [SPEAKER_01]: And therefore I quote these instances from the text or the lives of saints. [SPEAKER_01]: One more example. [SPEAKER_01]: Many days later I went with Captain. [SPEAKER_01]: Captain was a...

[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, devotee from Nepal, he was now official of the government of Nepal, representative in Calcutta. [SPEAKER_01]: Remember, at that time Calcutta was the capital of India, it was the capital of the British Empire in India. [SPEAKER_01]: I went with captain to see Raja, Shorin Ratego, put note, a title conferred on Saurin Ratego, the government of India, the word Raja really means the ruler of a kingdom.

[SPEAKER_01]: So during the Tagore, they all belong to the Tagore family, which, where, of course, running around the Tagore is well known all over the world. [SPEAKER_01]: I went with Captain to see Rajasaur in the Tagore, as soon as I met him, I said, I can't address you as Rajas, or by any such title, for I should be telling a lie.

[SPEAKER_01]: He talked to me a few minutes, but even so our conversation was interrupted by frequent visits of Europeans and others. [SPEAKER_01]: A man of Rajasthik temperament, Shor Indra was naturally busy with many things. [SPEAKER_01]: Jhatindra, his eldest brother, had been told of my coming, but he sent word that he had a pain in his throat and couldn't go out.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the sharp talking to he got earlier at Jadhu Mallick's garden house he still had memories. [SPEAKER_01]: He must have stung so much that he didn't want to meet Sri Ramakrishna. [SPEAKER_01]: One day in that state of divine intoxication, I went to the bathing hut on the baganji's at Baranagar.

[SPEAKER_01]: There I saw Jai Mukherjee, repeating the names of God. [SPEAKER_01]: But his mind was on something else. [SPEAKER_01]: I went up and slapped him twice on the cheeks. [SPEAKER_01]: At one time, Rani Rashmani, so it was basically the owner of the entire temple garden. [SPEAKER_01]: Remember, Sudham Krishna's himself, just an employee there.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's a priest in the temple. [SPEAKER_01]: And Rani Rashman is the founder and the owner of the entire property. [SPEAKER_01]: At one time Rani Rashmani was staying in the temple garden, she came to the shrine of the divine mother as she frequently did when I worshiped Kali and asked me to sing a song or two.

[SPEAKER_01]: On this occasion, while I was singing, I noticed she was sorting the flowers for worship absent mindedly. [SPEAKER_01]: At once I slapped her on the cheeks. [SPEAKER_01]: She became quite embarrassed and sat there with folded hands. [SPEAKER_01]: She was actually thinking of a court case, and she had, so she later told others, so she was thinking of a court case.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now she is an aristocratic owner of the whole place, and the... [SPEAKER_01]: Ram Krishna is just the priest there. [SPEAKER_01]: And when he did that, there were body guards around, you know, they've been those days, they would stand with big bamboo sticks and all they were about to beat up Ram Krishna or like a removing from the place, but she told them not to do anything to him, and that he was quite right to add money, shall the way he did, which shows her greatness, basically.

[SPEAKER_01]: alarmed at this state of mind myself. [SPEAKER_01]: I said to cousin Haladari, just see my nature. [SPEAKER_01]: How can I get rid of it after praying to the Divine Mother for some time with great yearning. [SPEAKER_01]: I was able to shake off this habit. [SPEAKER_01]: Good for us. [SPEAKER_01]: One Swami was giving a talk.

[SPEAKER_01]: He said, [SPEAKER_01]: The thank god he shook up this nature because the way we meditate our jigs would be red and stinging from his slaps every time we get distracted we'd get slapped. [SPEAKER_01]: So he shook up that nature. [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, there is a particular school of Zen Buddhism in the Zen do in the meditation hall.

[SPEAKER_01]: One of the teachers walks around with a bamboo stick. [SPEAKER_01]: So you're all sitting and meditating. [SPEAKER_01]: If somebody doses up, he gets a whack on the head. [SPEAKER_01]: Now let me see. [SPEAKER_01]: Ramya says, I've heard the present Shankaracharya of Shringeri makes almost the same statement as you did to the effect that till the ultimate reality is reached.

[SPEAKER_01]: This transactional duality is real. [SPEAKER_01]: We do accept it. [SPEAKER_01]: And it has to be accepted. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's write. [SPEAKER_01]: Rodrigo says, Jesus will son of a barren woman. [SPEAKER_01]: No, she wasn't a barren woman. [SPEAKER_01]: This is the story of the Virgin Purks, so, literally, you're a defined person who does not give Purks, so, Jesus's mother, of course, did give Purks to Jesus, Prabeer Basu, says, what kind of reality is the deep sleep state?

[SPEAKER_01]: Waking, dreaming, and deep sleep are all we have a harika septem. [SPEAKER_01]: transactional reality. [SPEAKER_01]: When I said dream is Prativasika, the lower the illusory state of reality. [SPEAKER_01]: What I meant was the contents of the dream are Prativasika. [SPEAKER_01]: So for example, when you are watching a movie, is whatever is happening in the movie is the illusory state of reality, Prativasika.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the movie screen itself. [SPEAKER_01]: The movie itself is transactional reality. [SPEAKER_01]: It exists in our world, and we can go out and touch the screen. [SPEAKER_01]: It's there. [SPEAKER_01]: So the book you read, you read a novel. [SPEAKER_01]: So when you read in the book itself, is part of your transactional reality.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the world that is created in the book, in your mind, the characters and the events which happen, that is pratifasika. [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, ultimately, everything is none other than Brahman. [SPEAKER_01]: Regarding the example of the unrealistic child of a barren woman at a salt, many examples of people in Indian mythology were not born of women with created by God's.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the point is that God creates something that is real like the universe itself. [SPEAKER_01]: So God creates illusions is that reality or is all reality in illusion. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's put it this way. [SPEAKER_00]: What God creates is real, absolutely true. [SPEAKER_01]: But there is a reality of reality.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is the language used in the open issue. [SPEAKER_01]: Satyasiya, Satyam, the reality of reality. [SPEAKER_01]: So in that case, or what one might call a deeper reality. [SPEAKER_01]: learned this from that discussion on David Bond. [SPEAKER_01]: He would always speak of an implicate order.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that was his theory that underlying what underlying modern cosmology, particle physics is an implicate order to some kind of quantum state from which all of this emerges. [SPEAKER_01]: Now what does that mean? [SPEAKER_01]: This is a reality. [SPEAKER_01]: He's now denying this is a reality, but this depends on for its very existence on a lower reality.

[SPEAKER_01]: So does God create illusions? [SPEAKER_01]: That's one of [SPEAKER_01]: attacks on Advaita Vedanta by the Dwaita School. [SPEAKER_01]: You know what the attack is? [SPEAKER_01]: The Dwaita School remember, Dwaita School regards God as real and the universe as real. [SPEAKER_01]: And the God is really created to universe.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the Dwaita dualistic school attacks non-realism by saying, look. [SPEAKER_01]: Our God is real and has so powerful has created a real universe. [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas your God is a cheap illusionist. [SPEAKER_01]: There's like a street magician showing little illusions here and there.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what is the answer to that? [SPEAKER_01]: Then you're again mixing up two different levels. [SPEAKER_01]: At this level, we can say that there is a God and God is real and God has created the universe and we have no [SPEAKER_01]: from a variety perspective. [SPEAKER_01]: But we are saying from the perspective of the absolute truth, ultimate reality, all of this is an appearance of that absolute truth.

[SPEAKER_01]: The world is an appearance with respect to Brahman. [SPEAKER_01]: And God, I will not say God is an appearance. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be very careful here. [SPEAKER_01]: This is how I started the class today. [SPEAKER_01]: God is none other than Brahman. [SPEAKER_01]: in Sanskrit ishwara's ishwara to a god, godliness is an appearance, god is the absolute reality and it's so god, godliness is an appearance, just as you are that absolute reality and you're so called this individual sentient being, I am this little person, that's an appearance from that perspective.

[SPEAKER_01]: What would the dualists say to it? [SPEAKER_01]: By the, they will not, they cannot say anything to it because remember, they accept one level of reality. [SPEAKER_01]: They don't accept this distinction between absolute reality and relatively reality. [SPEAKER_01]: This distinction is very profound in Buddhism, for example, in the high and about this.

[SPEAKER_01]: There is an absolute reality, is a relatively reality. [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, these words also come from Nagarjuna. [SPEAKER_01]: Nagarjuna says that Buddha taught [SPEAKER_01]: Two truths were taught by the Buddha. [SPEAKER_01]: The Ram Korting from Nagarjuna, Mula Maktana Krakharika. [SPEAKER_01]: He said, Buddha, that's how two levels of truth.

[SPEAKER_01]: Satyam, Paramah, Thikam, Satyam, Sambrit, Timjya. [SPEAKER_01]: So, that's the truth, which according to him is emptiness and the relative truth. [SPEAKER_01]: The word he used is Sambritti, Satyam, which we call it Bhavaharika. [SPEAKER_01]: Advaita, Vedanta, Kalsit, Bhavaharika, transaction.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, these two levels are accepted by some schools of Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta, but not by any other school. [SPEAKER_01]: So, the dualists do not accept two levels of reality. [SPEAKER_01]: This is the only reality. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there are errors and illusions and dreams, but there is no higher reality than this.

[SPEAKER_01]: even poor women and all the other schools have been implausive. [SPEAKER_01]: We all accept this one level of reality. [SPEAKER_01]: What we are calling transaction reality, that's it, become to a full stop here. [SPEAKER_01]: Patrick, Coswan says are the levels of truth, levels of consciousness is better to think of the mental model for the Jeeva.

[SPEAKER_01]: Are the levels of consciousness? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Advaita Vedanta would not agree to levels of consciousness. [SPEAKER_01]: Advaita Vedanta would say consciousness is only one. [SPEAKER_01]: Ultimately, consciousness is Brahman, such it are under, but consciousness can be experienced at the transactional level, devaric level, as our conscious experience is right now, seeing hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, thinking, desiring, remembering, understanding, forgetting, all of these are activities of the mind, and they are all valid at the transactional level, and they are all powered by consciousness, so to say.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll just leave it there. [SPEAKER_01]: So Agita says, perhaps we need to distinguish between impossibility and reality too. [SPEAKER_01]: A logical distinction here. [SPEAKER_01]: Impossibility of three levels. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll just put it out there, right? [SPEAKER_01]: It's a simple thing which you taught in philosophy classes.

[SPEAKER_01]: When you say something is impossible, you can understand that at three levels. [SPEAKER_01]: One is at the level of physics. [SPEAKER_01]: So you say it's impossible to exceed the speed of light. [SPEAKER_01]: No particle can travel at something faster than the speed of light. [SPEAKER_01]: Now that's by the laws of physics.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now let me categorize it a little further. [SPEAKER_01]: Three levels of impossibility. [SPEAKER_01]: First, when you say, it's impossible to say travel to the center of the galaxy. [SPEAKER_01]: Why? [SPEAKER_01]: It's technically impossible. [SPEAKER_01]: We don't have the technology.

[SPEAKER_01]: We don't have the means to travel to the center of the galaxy, except in science fiction. [SPEAKER_01]: So, technically something is impossible, but it may need not be impossible in the future. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe some technology will be there. [SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing, again, in the laws of nature which prevent you from travel into the center of the galaxy.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, that's one level of impossibility. [SPEAKER_01]: Technically, possibility. [SPEAKER_01]: There's certain things which are not possible and we don't have any idea how it will be possible right now. [SPEAKER_01]: then there is another level, a deeper level of impossibility, which is scientific impossibility.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there are rules of special rules of physics, laws of physics, which cannot be violated. [SPEAKER_01]: Like the example, like a classic example of, you cannot travel fast to the speed of light, no particle can travel fast to the speed of light. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's dictated by the certain set of constants at the very, the very, you know, the physical fundamentals [SPEAKER_01]: If those were different, then maybe a different universe would have been created, but the universe as it is now, these laws of physics are fixed, you can't violate them.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that is scientific impossibility, and that which is a scientific impossibility will automatically be a technical impossibility. [SPEAKER_01]: that which is a technological impossibility, need not be a scientific impossibility. [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody that thing may be technologically possible, but if it's a scientific impossibility, say, physics impossibility, it will never be technically possible.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then you go to deeper level of impossibility, even more deep than the scientific impossibility or physics impossibility, which is the mathematical even logical impossibility. [SPEAKER_01]: So one plus one cannot be anything other than two, the way you define one plus one. [SPEAKER_01]: the way, some of the three angles of a triangle in Euclidean geometry, not non-Euclidean geometry, Euclidean geometry will always be equal to 180 degrees.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, that's defined. [SPEAKER_01]: You have the very axioms that you have accepted, they dictate that this is the result. [SPEAKER_01]: It's impossible for it to be anything else. [SPEAKER_01]: Laws of mathematics, or even biology, laws of logic, that cannot be violated. [SPEAKER_01]: That's another level of impossibility.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, the [SPEAKER_01]: It completely impossible would be logical impossibility. [SPEAKER_00]: It never, it does not exist and does not appear also. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's it. [SPEAKER_01]: There is an unnecessary comment, but Alright, we'll wrap it up here.

Gospel | Chapter 4: Aug 24, 1882 (Part 4) & Oct 16 1882 (Part 1) | Swami Sarvapriyananda

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